第744集：Derivnex 将下一个万亿美元市场带入加密轨道

别再等着别人允许你才开始创业了。

Stop waiting for permission to start your business.

你的想法离实现只差一步，而Shopify能让你轻松把它变成现实。

Your idea is one step away, and Shopify can make it easy to make it happen.

我们在Crypto one zero one就是这么做的，用Shopify卖我们的书，后来的事大家都知道了。

That's what we did at Crypto one zero one and use Shopify to sell our book, the rest is history.

我喜欢Shopify的一点是，它把创业中那些吓人的部分都解决了。

The thing I like about Shopify is it takes the scary part out of starting.

你不需要坐在那里费劲琢磨网站、支付、结账、库存这些琐碎的事情，这些往往在还没上线前就把人给难住了。

You're not just sitting there trying to figure out a website, payments, checkout, inventory, all these little things that stop people before they even launch.

说到搭建网店，我觉得最大的问题就是各种麻烦事。

When I think about building a storefront, the biggest thing is friction.

你希望顾客一进你的页面，就喜欢上你卖的东西，然后能顺利下单，不会卡住。

You want someone to land on your page, like what you're selling and be able to buy without getting stuck.

这正是Shopify厉害的地方。

That's where Shopify is huge.

Shopify的结账流程就是为了帮助更多顾客完成购买。

Shopify checkout is built to help more customers finish their purchase.

而且当他们回来时，他们的信息已经保存好了。

And when they come back, their details are already saved.

一键就能搞定。

One tap and they're done.

最棒的是，Shopify支撑着全球数百万家企业，从你熟悉的大品牌，比如美泰和Gymshark，到刚刚起步的小企业。

The cool part is Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from huge brands that you know, like Mattel and Gymshark to small businesses just getting started.

所以无论你是要打造下一个大品牌，还是推出你的第一个产品，基础设施都已经准备好了。

So whether you're building the next big brand or launching your first product, the infrastructure is already there.

这部分搞定之后，你就可以专注于真正重要的事情：打造品牌、吸引关注、把顾客带到你的店铺，让生意成长起来。

Once that part is handled, you can focus on the real work, building the brand, getting attention, and bringing people to your storefront so the business can grow.

当有人真正下单的那一刻，你的想法就变成了现实。

That moment when someone actually buys, that's when the idea becomes real.

有了Shopify，你的想法和真正的生意之间没有任何障碍，所以去实现它吧。

With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business, so go make it one.

今天就在shopify.com/crypto10one开始你的免费试用吧。

Start your free trial today at shopify.com/crypto10one.

没错，就是shopify.com/crypto10one的免费试用。

That's a free trial at shopify.com/crypto10one.

八月是时候稍微整理一下衣橱了。

August is a good time to clean up the closet a little bit.

把那些夏天没用过的东西处理掉。

Get rid of the summer stuff that you didn't use.

为秋天的衣橱做准备，升级那些你每周都会穿的基础款。

Prepare for your autumn wardrobe and upgrade the basics that you'll actually reach for every week.

这就是我喜欢Quince的原因。

That's why I like Quince.

他们做的单品数量不多，但件件精品，质感高级，却没有奢侈品的溢价。

They make fewer better pieces that feel premium, but don't come with the luxury markup.

对我来说，我最常穿的是那条100%欧洲亚麻抽绳沙滩裤，搭配同款衬衫。

For me, the piece I keep coming back to is the 100% European linen drawstring beach pants with the matching shirt.

我很喜欢去海滩度假时穿它们，因为穿起来很方便、透气、舒服，而且看起来整整齐齐的，又不会显得刻意打扮。

I love wearing them on beach vacations because they're easy, they're breathable, comfortable, and they look put together without feel like I'm trying too hard.

白天随便套上，去水边就能穿，晚上稍微弄一下就能出门。

Throw them on during the day, wear them by the water, or dress up a little bit at night.

这就是我真正会常用的百搭款，因为它的用法很多。

That's the kind of staple I actually use because it has versatility.

而这恰恰是Quince做得好的地方。

And that's really what Quince does well.

他们专做日常百搭的单品，比如超柔软的有机棉T恤，还有高品质的木兰棉和羊绒毛衣，从平时上班到晚上出去吃饭都能穿。

They specialize in everyday pieces that work harder like ultra soft organic cotton tees and premium magnolia and cashmere sweaters that can go from a casual workday to dinner out.

如果你的基本款开始显旧了，Quince让你轻松升级：牛仔裤和裁剪合身的休闲裤只要60美元起，版型和面料都达到奢侈设计师品牌的水准。

If your basics are starting to feel worn out, Quince makes it easy to upgrade with premium denim and tailored chinos from just $60 with the fit structure and quality fabrics you'd expect from a luxury designer brand.

Quince的所有商品都比类似的品牌便宜50%到80%。

Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands.

他们直接跟有道德承诺的工厂合作，而且省去中间商，所以你付的是高品质成本，而不是品牌溢价。

They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman so you're paying for high quality, not brand markup.

而且不只是衣服。

And it's not just clothing.

Quince已经成了大家的首选，从酒店品质的床品和浴室用品，到高端厨具和旅行必备品，应有尽有。

Quince has become a go to for everything from hotel quality bedding and bath essentials to premium cookware and travel must haves.

各位，你们听我念叨很久了，我一直跟你们说一定要去quince.com看看，因为那个网站真的很有意思，选择特别多。

Guys, you've been hearing it for so long now how I tell you you have to go to quince.com because the website is so fun for all the options that they have.

那个网站特别适合随便逛逛，而且价格真的没得比。

It's a great website to go click around and the prices can't be beat.

升级你的日常，下载Quince应用，享受应用专属优惠。

Upgrade your everyday, download the Quince app for app exclusive offers.

访问quince.com/crypto10one。

Go to quince.com/crypto10one.

订单免运费，还有365天退货服务，现在加拿大和英国也能享受了。

Get free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada and The UK too.

网址是quince.com/crypto10one。

That's quince.com/crypto10one.

好了，各位先生女士们。

Alright, ladies and gentlemen.

我们现在正在和Derivnex的首席执行官乔治·哈灵顿进行现场连线。

Here we are live with George Harrington, CEO of Derivnex.

我们正在Out East峰会的现场。

We're at the Out East Summit.

很高兴见到你。

Great to see you.

是的。

Yep.

很高兴来到这里。

Great to be here.

Out East。

Out East.

对。

Yeah.

在东部。

Out East.

这里挺好的。

It's nice.

我觉得可能会下点雨，但我们现在就在这里，你知道的，这是The Tie赞助的活动，所以我们真的很高兴能请到George来聊聊由DRW孵化的Derivnex，我们有很多问题要问。

Know, I think we're gonna get a little bit of rain, but here we are, you know, this is an event sponsored by The Tie, and so we're really excited to have George with us to talk about Derivnex incubated by DRW, and we got a lot questions to go through.

在我们深入讨论之前，George，先介绍一下你自己，告诉我们你是谁，为什么你是这个工作的最佳人选。

And so before we get too deep into it, George, introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about who you are and why you're the man for the job.

当然，当然。

Sure, sure.

我最近加入了DRW，到现在大概三个月了。

So recent joiner to DRW, I've been with the firm for just about three months now.

在那之前，我在MSCI工作了八年。

Prior to that, I spent eight years at MSCI.

我曾任全球衍生品主管，那是一家大型指数公司，我负责他们整个衍生品组合，包括期货、期权和场外交易。

I was global head of derivatives, a big index company, and looked after their whole derivative portfolio of futures options, OTC.

在那之前，我在彭博社工作了十年，担任全球市场主管，搭建了他们很多交易平台和交易技术，包括掉期执行设施、多边交易设施、跨资产平台，基本上就是在MSCI和DRW之间积极推动，研究如何把场外交易放到链上。

Before that, I spent ten years with Bloomberg where I was head of global markets, built a lot of their trading platform and trading technology, swap execution facilities, multilateral trading facilities, cross asset platforms, and basically was working actively between MSCI and DRW on the ability of to take an OTC transaction and put it on chain.

不错。

Nice.

重点是让一个标准的指数总回报掉期，基本上路由到Canton网络上，然后转向数字结算。

Focus was was to get a standard index total return swap and have that basically routed onto the Canton network and then move into digital settlements.

所以要么是代币化资产，要么是稳定币，或者其他什么，来处理OTC交易中的所有现金流。

So either tokenized assets, stablecoin, or whatnot for all of the cash flows, that go on with a with an OTC transaction.

市场上确实有过一些尝试，但我觉得，传统金融机构围绕Canton的聚集，第一，加上对稳定币和代币化存款作为交易媒介的接受度越来越高，真的就像是，你知道，时机已到的信号。

In the market, there's been certainly iterations that have looked at it, but I think that the formation of TradFi players around Canton, number one, and then a growing acceptance of stablecoin and tokenized deposits as a medium of transaction, really was sort of like, know, the bell that the time is now.

DRW决定成立一家公司来做这件事。

DRW decided to, create a company, to do this.

我，你知道，和团队一起工作，然后被任命为CEO，就像我说的，大概三个月前。

I was you know, worked with the with the teams and was, named the CEO, like I said, about three months ago now.

我们现在正处于建设阶段。

We're in the process of we're we're in build mode right now.

我们有一个大约15人的开发团队，正在非常积极地推进这个项目。

We have a team of about 15 developers who are working really actively on it.

我们刚刚招了一位运营主管。

We just hired, a head of operations.

我们正在积极寻找CTO候选人，已经看了几位了。

We're, actively looking at, saw a few CTO candidates now.

希望很快能敲定下来。

Hopefully, that will get done soon.

对。

And yeah.

我们特别兴奋的是，不断发现新的应用场景。

So we're the thing that we're super excited about is that we keep finding new use cases.

在DRW内部，我们确实有一个活跃的股票互换组合，涉及量化投资策略，还有一些总收益互换。

So certainly inside DRW, we have an active, equity swap portfolio in trades like, quantitative investment strategies, you know, some total return swaps.

现在也开始涉足单一股票互换，这类产品越来越受欢迎。

Starting to get into single name swaps, which are growing in, in popularity.

但还有大宗商品领域。

But then there's the commodity world.

还有利率领域。

There's the rates world.

当然，还有加密货币领域本身。

There's, the crypto world itself, of course.

很多蓝海市场。

A lot of green pasture.

大量场外交易活动。

A lot of OTC activity.

所以，是的，一个又一个用例不断涌现，我们对整个项目感到非常兴奋。

So, yeah, it's use case after use case after use case keeps coming along, so we're pretty excited about the whole venture.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

我想我的第一个问题，直接问吧，听了你的背景，在MSCI和其他几家华尔街大公司工作过，为什么选择加密货币，为什么是现在？

I guess my first question just off the bat, hearing about your background, MSCI and and several other, you know, Wall Street heavy hitters, why crypto and why now?

你知道吗，这个行业到底有什么吸引你的地方，让你说，你知道吗？

You know, what kind of was it about this industry where you said, you know what?

我甚至愿意承担职业风险，跳进这个狂野西部的资产类别，这个未知领域。

I'm gonna take maybe even the career risk of jumping over to this Wild West asset class, the unknown.

是的。

Yep.

跟我说说这个决定吧。

Tell me about that decision.

对。

Yeah.

所以，具体来说，对于指数玩家。

So very specifically for index players.

对吧？

Right?

所以，在指数领域有很多活动，比如Hyperliquid，你知道，你会看到不同版本的代币化基金。

So there there there's a lot of activity going on, in the index space around things like Hyperliquid, that, you know, you see different iterations of, tokenized funds.

所以不管是指数基金，还是由指数支持的存款，还是指数提供商通过代币化资产或直接把自己的知识产权放到链上，都是如此。

So whether it be an index fund, whether it be, you know, a a deposit that's backed by an index, and then also index providers putting their IP on chain either via tokenized asset or directly.

对吧？

Right?

所以你想一下，比如标普500期货，标普500，抱歉，应该说标普，它是第一个把他们的授权指数放到Hyperliquid上，以便在那里开展活动的先行者。

So if you think about, you know, S and P five hundred futures, you know, S and P five hundred, sorry, S and P, I should say, was the first mover in terms of putting, their, license index, onto Hyperliquid to allow for activity there.

他们还做了其他事情，比如创建了一个新指数，并且正在和一些合作伙伴合作。

They'd also done activity where they created a new index, and they're working with some partners on that side.

但对我来说很清楚，坐在MSCI的办公桌前，我就知道这次是真的，因为，你知道，在传统金融衍生品领域，我们参加相关会议已经超过十年了。

But it was very clear to me, you know, sitting at my desk at MSCI that this this time was real because, you know, in the TradFi world of derivatives, you know, we've been going to conferences for more than ten years.

区块链一直是个话题。

It's been blockchain.

对。

Right.

它正在到来。

It's coming.

你知道，其实之前并没有真正的代币化推动力，至少最近几年之前是这样。

You know, there wasn't really sort of the tokenization sort of drive, you know, at least until the last couple of years.

然后它真的开始发生了。

And then it really started happening.

现在，有些交易场所已经在交易这些东西了。

Now there was there were venues where these things were trading.

你显然看到，CME和其他机构开始推出相关产品。

You obviously saw, you know, CME and others start to launch.

当然，比特币期货，还有永续合约。

Obviously, you know, Bitcoin futures, but also allowing for perpetuals.

那对我来说真的是一个信号。

And that was that was really the bell for me.

我当时想，如果你能创建一个永续合约，让你获得指数的敞口，而且你可以在去中心化交易所上做，但你得到的正是你想要的敞口，那这对ETF世界会有什么影响？

It was like, okay, if you're gonna create a perpetual that gives you exposure to the index, and you could do it, you know, on on a DeFi exchange, but you are getting the exact exposure that you want, how does that affect the ETF world?

这会如何影响共同基金世界，在这些敞口或标准期货方面？

How does that affect, you know, the mutual fund world in terms of these exposures or standard futures?

对吧？

Right?

再说，我们在MSCI那边这些做得挺好的。

Which again, you know, we were we did very well at MSCI with those.

但永续合约是个新东西。

But perps was a new thing.

所以我就深入研究了，真正看到了这些代币化交易能做什么。

So dove deeper into it, really sort of saw what, you know, these tokenized transactions can do.

资本周转速度真的是个大因素，特别是像DRW或者我们这样的公司。

Velocity capital really is a huge factor, especially if you look at a firm like a DRW or firms like us.

这个领域增长了不少。

There's, you know, been a lot of growth in that area.

资本周转速度很重要，尤其是在交易当天或者互换重置日，把所有东西原子化结算。

Velocity capital is huge, in terms of settling everything atomically, you know, on trade date or a reset date for a swap or something like that.

而且，随着行业扩展，还能做单一名称互换，甚至指数互换，但会有很多重置点。

But then furthermore, you know, as the industry expands, being able to do things like, single name single name swaps or, you know, even in index swaps, but you've got a lot of reset points.

如果数字结算，资金当天就能到账，而不是T+1或T+2的延迟，那真是革命性的变化。

If you're digitally settling and the money's moving, you know, on that same day versus a t plus one or a t plus two lag, these are these are game changers.

所以我觉得我们确实在关注，或者说DRW整个公司都在关注加密货币领域的发展，而对于传统金融玩家来说，区块链的安全性和数字记录保存，相比现在还在用大量邮件和追着问来确认交易情况的做法，

So I I think that we've really looked at or, I mean, DRW as a whole has really looked at, you know, what's going on in crypto, you know, and then for TradFi players, the security of the blockchain, the digital record keeping versus, you know, what today is still a lot of emails and, you know, chasers being sent around in terms of what happened, you know, where are

比如某个Excel表格上我们到底进展到哪一步了。

we on on this particular Excel spreadsheets.

篮子里到底有什么？

What what what's in the basket?

还得相信一个可能是竞争对手的人。

Having to trust some guy who might even be a competitor that you're facing off on.

没错。

That's right.

只能相信他们说的话。

Just taking their word for it.

对。

Right.

所以现在，从掉期合约开始到结束，全程都有数字记录。

So now digital record, digital record all through the life of the swap.

价值就在那里。

You know, the value is there.

然后当然，还有资金周转速度。

And then, of course, again, velocity capital.

比如，即时结算，全部在T日完成，不管是重置日还是到期日，这些对场外交易行业来说都是颠覆性的。

Like, you know, atomic settlement, all on t, or on whether it's reset date, maturity date, that's those are game changers for the for the OTC industry.

这真的很重要，因为很多人觉得，电汇的话，第二天才到账，ACH转账也没啥大不了的。

And and this is huge because, like, a lot of people think, oh, so if I wire and I don't get it till tomorrow if I ACH, it's not that big of a deal.

但那是因为你电汇的是100美元，给朋友。

But that's because it's your $100 wire to your body.

当你处理的是几十亿美元的时候，每一天资金在途，

You're like, when you're dealing with billions of dollars, know, every single day it's in transit.

它都没有在产生利息。

It's not accruing interest.

它没法被用来杠杆操作。

It's not being able to be leveraged.

你没法把它变成你想要的样子。

You can't, you know, turn it into what you wanna turn it into.

嗯，这也涉及到资金的重新部署。

Well, it's it's also redeployment.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yeah.

所以呢，

So so

我不知道你怎么样，但我经常不知不觉就到晚饭时间了。

I I don't know about you, but dinner sneaks up on me all the time.

我打开冰箱，才发现自己没准备任何蛋白质。

I'll open the fridge and realize I have no protein ready.

到那个时候，我可不想临时跑去商店，碰运气看店里还剩什么肉或者汉堡。

And at that point, I'm not trying to go to the store, make a last minute grocery run, and gamble on whatever meats or burgers are left at the store.

这就是为什么Omaha Steaks是冰箱里的好选择。

That's why Omaha Steaks is a great freezer move.

就像家里有个信得过的肉铺，在你最需要的时候随时有优质蛋白质。

It's like having a trusted butcher at home and quality protein when you need it the most.

Omaha Steaks用一百多年的时间赢得了口碑。

Omaha Steaks has earned its reputation with over a hundred years.

全国厨房都信赖的牛肉，直接送到你家门口。

It's the same beef trusted in kitchens across the country, shipped straight to your door.

牛排馆的品质，却不用花牛排馆的价钱。

Steakhouse quality without the steakhouse prices.

你的家人会以为晚餐花了好几个小时，其实并没有。

Your family will think dinner took hours, but it didn't.

只需要几分钟。

Just minutes.

如果你还没试过，那个汉堡完美拼盘就是最好的起点。

And if you never tried them, the burger perfection flight is the perfect place to start.

你会得到20个优质牛排汉堡，用的是五种不同部位的牛排。

You get 20 premium steak burgers made from five different cuts of steak.

四个菲力牛排汉堡、四个纽约客牛排汉堡、四个肋眼牛排汉堡、四个牛胸肉汉堡，还有四个西冷牛排汉堡。

Four filet mignon burgers, four New York strip burgers, four rib eye burgers, four brisket burgers, and four sirloin burgers.

各位，这简直就是汉堡界的山寨币组合。

Guys, this is the altcoin basket of burgers right here.

如果我和布莱恩在节目里，我们肯定会把这些对半分，因为你知道我们夏天多喜欢烧烤。

If me and Brian were on the rundown, we would be divvying these up fifty fifty because you know how we like to grill in the summer.

所以你拿到的不仅仅是一盒汉堡，而是不同的风味、不同的口感，还有真正的牛排馆级别的多样性，你可以随时扔到烤架上，或者工作日快速搞定。

So you're not just getting a box of burgers, you're getting different flavor profiles, different textures, and real steakhouse style variety you can throw on the grill or cook up fast during the week.

今天就到omahasteaks.com试试汉堡完美拼盘吧。

Try the burger perfection flight at omahasteaks.com today.

20个优质牛排汉堡只要79.99美元，而且用优惠码beef还能再减35美元。

That's 20 premium steak burgers for just $79.99, plus get $35 off with the promo code beef.

网址是omahasteaks.com。

That's omahasteaks.com.

结账时输入优惠码beef，立减35美元。

Promo code beef for $35 off at checkout.

条款适用。

Terms apply.

详情请见网站。

See site for details.

你知道什么最拖慢团队进度吗？

You know what slows teams down more than anything?

往往不是人员预算，甚至也不是工具本身。

It's not always the headcount budget or even the tools themselves.

而是工作流程只存在某个人脑子里，从来没有真正被记录下来。

It's when the way work gets done lives in someone's head and never actually gets documented.

然后新人加入、新平台上线，或者队友离职，突然大家做同一件事的方式就各不相同了。

Then someone new joins, a new platform gets rolled out, or a teammate leaves, and suddenly everybody's doing the same process in a different way.

这正是今天的赞助商Scribe要解决的问题。

That's exactly the problem today's sponsor, Scribe, was built to solve.

Scribe是一个工作流AI平台，财富500强中有94%的公司都在使用它。

Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500.

它能捕捉工作流程的实时过程，并将其转化为分步文档，方便团队审阅和分享。

It captures workflows as they happen and turns them into step by step documentation your team can review and share.

你只需要像平常一样操作，Scribe就会边做边生成指南，自动记录每一次点击、每一步操作和截图。

You just do the process like you normally would, and Scribe builds the guide as you go, capturing every click, step, and screenshot automatically.

我们团队是远程办公，我确实遇到过好几次需要向同事重复解释同一个设置或流程的情况，总觉得这些内容第一次就应该记录下来。

With our team being remote, I have definitely had moments where I've had to explain the same setup or process more than once to a colleague, and it always feels like something that should have been documented the first time.

有了Scribe，原本可能需要花几个小时编写和整理的内容，不到一分钟就能准备好分享。

With Scribe, what could take hours of writing and cleanup can be ready to share in under a minute.

Scribe还会自动从截图中隐藏敏感信息，比如姓名、邮箱和账号。

Scribe also automatically redacts sensitive information like names, emails, and account numbers from screenshots.

管理员可以强制全团队启用这个功能，确保没有任何遗漏。

Admins can enforce that across the team so nothing slips through the cracks.

而且，任何按照流程操作的人都能获得实时的屏幕指导，准确显示在实际工具中该点击哪里。

Plus, anyone following the process can get real time on screen guidance showing exactly where to click inside the actual tool.

Scribe 不只是记录工作流程，它还会用 AI 来建议如何改进，帮你发现多余的步骤，以及简化或自动化的机会。

Scribe doesn't just document workflows, it uses AI to suggest ways to improve them, helping you spot redundant steps and opportunities to simplify or automate.

想看看 Scribe 对你的组织能带来什么效果，就去 scribe.how/crypto101，并提到 crypto101，就能在特定套餐上免费使用第一个月的 Scribe Capture。

To see what Scribe could look like for your org, head to scribe.how/crypto101 and mention crypto101 for your first month of scribe capture free on select plans.

网址是 scribe，scribe.how/crypto10one。

That's scribe, scribe.how/crypto10one.

现在大家都在谈论 AI，但真正重要的 AI 是那种能帮你节省时间、做出更明智决策、减轻工作负担的 AI。

Everybody is talking about AI right now, but the AI that actually matters is the kind that saves you time, helps you make smarter decisions, and takes work off your plate.

如果你在经营电商业务，发货就是那种要么让你顺利推进，要么让你完全停滞的事情。

And if you're running an e commerce business, shipping is one of those things that can either keep you moving or completely slow you down.

这就是我喜欢 ShipStation 的原因。

That's why I like ShipStation.

它是一个为电商业务打造的一站式订单履行平台，其 AI 基于全球数十亿次发货的真实数据训练而成。

It's an end to end order fulfillment platform built for ecommerce businesses, and its AI is trained on decades of real shipping data from billions of shipments across the world.

所以，不用再手忙脚乱地切换各种工具了，ShipStation能帮你掌控全局。

So instead of juggling a bunch of different tools, ShipStation helps you stay in control.

它能在库存不足时提醒你，推荐最合适的承运商和费率，还能自动化任务，帮你在业务增长时节省时间。

It can alert you when your stock is low, recommend the best carrier selections and rates, automate tasks, help you save time as you grow.

你还能在同一个地方实现跨销售渠道的库存同步、自动比价、品牌化退货门户，以及与会计和CRM软件的集成。

You also get inventory syncing across sales channels, automatic rate shopping, a branded returns portal, and integrations with accounting and CRM software all in one place.

如果是我在经营电商店铺，我肯定会想要这样的工具，因为一旦订单开始进来，你肯定不希望物流成为拖后腿的环节。

If I were running an e commerce store, this is exactly the kind of tool I'd want because once the orders start coming in, you don't want shipping to be the thing that's holding you back.

超过100万家商家已经信任ShipStation来优化和扩展他们的物流。

Over 1,000,000 businesses have trusted ShipStation to optimize and scale their shipping.

你越早切换，就能越早开始节省时间和金钱。

The sooner you switch, the sooner you start saving time and money.

今天就注册ShipStation，在shipstation.com输入优惠码crypto，就能免费使用60天。

Get started with ShipStation today and get sixty days free at shipstation.com with code crypto.

网址是shipstation.com。

That's shipstation.com.

优惠码crypto。

Code crypto.

Shipstation.com，优惠码crypto。

Shipstation.com, code crypto.

税费另计。

Taxes and fees apply.

尤其是在股票方面，我们刚刚经历了财报季，你看到了那些令人难以置信的强劲业绩。

Especially in equity, and we just came out of the earnings cycle and you saw the incredible Insane earnings.

数字惊人。

Incredible number.

历史性的。

Historic.

对。

Right.

所以，鉴于我们看到的这种波动，如果你把资金周转周期提前一天或一天半，那就意味着有更多的机会。

So so with the volatility that we're seeing, if you get if you move the money cycle up by a day, a day and a half, that just means there's more opportunity.

所以，我觉得现在整个行业都看到了这一点。

So, I think I think widely the industry sees that now.

而且，再看看，尤其是在股票市场，因为大部分情况都不太明朗。

And also, again, where you look at where you look at especially in the equity world because a lot that most of it's unclear.

实际上，在股票市场，所有东西都不太透明，直到场外交易。

In fact, in the equity world, all unclear to OTC.

你知道，这是我们最容易着手解决问题的地方。

You know, that is sort of the lowest hanging fruit where we could help solve problems.

我觉得你是问这个问题的绝佳人选，

I think you're the perfect guy

因为我一直想找个人问问。

to ask this question too because I've been dying to ask somebody.

我不知道你能不能直接评论那个诉讼。

And I don't know if you could comment directly on the suit.

CME，或者我觉得是CME，正在起诉美国证券交易委员会，因为他们推出了大量永续合约。

CME or I think it's CME is suing the SEC for their proliferation of perpetual futures.

他们是想保护定期期货之类的东西。

They were trying to protect dated futures and all that kind of stuff.

对。

Yeah.

为什么永续合约或者永续期货这么重要？

Why is the perpetual swap or the perpetual future, why is that so important?

它有什么作用？

What does it do?

它解锁了什么定期期货、定期期权做不到的功能？

What does it unlock that dated futures, dated options really couldn't?

而那些老牌机构对此非常紧张。

And the the incumbents are just like freaking out about this.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，最简单的答案是，那些期货都需要滚动展期。

I mean, well, the the the easiest answer is that those futures all all are rolling.

对吧？

Right?

所以每次你展期，他们都能赚到钱？

So so So that's money for them every time you roll it?

每一次都是。

Every single time.

所以，你知道，展期是期货行业的关键部分，而永续合约永远不会到期。

So, you know, the the the role is a key part of that, of the futures industry, and a perp never matures.

对吧？

Right?

所以你只需要建立敞口。

So you you put on the exposure.

你获得收益，我的意思是，它基本上是一种无日期的总收益互换，你在持有期间获得回报，因此你不需要经历展期周期。

You're gaining I mean, it's basically a purpose is a is an undated total return swap where you're getting the return over your life of your holding, and therefore, you're not going through the rolling cycle.

所以我认为，对于传统交易所来说，他们看到自己的城堡在融化。

So I think that, you know, for for traditional exchanges They see their castle melting.

他们也看到，要么他们需要转型和适应，但肯定的是，竞争直接进入了他们的领域。

They they also see that they're either they need to move and adopt, but it also it for sure is is is competition coming directly into their space.

对。

Yeah.

而且，你还会看到，我之前提到过标普。

And also, what you see that you know, I had mentioned S and P before.

所以，CME上最大的股票期货是标普500指数期货。

So the biggest, you know, equity future on on CME is on on SPX.

然后很明显，现在标普500指数期货也在HyperLiquid上交易了。

And then obviously, you've got SPX now trading on hyperliquids.

所以，是的。

So Yeah.

我敢肯定，如果你坐在那个位置上，你会想：我们该怎么办？

They're I am sure if you're sitting in that chair, it's like What do we do?

就像，我们现在面临一些风险。

Like, we're we've got some risk on here.

那永续合约是不是也一样安全？

Now is the perpetual future just as safe?

它的风险是不是也和定期合约一样可控？

Is it just as, you know, risk manageable as a dated contract?

我觉得这要看你在哪个平台交易。

So I think it depends on your venue.

对吧？

Right?

还有你的风险承受能力。

And also your your risk for for appetite.

所以我觉得，如果你看看传统交易所，你就会明白为什么现在永续合约这么火。我觉得新加坡交易所是第一个，至少是其中之一。

So I think that, you know, where if you look at the traditional exchanges, and that's why you are seeing a lot of motion around perpetuals, I think SGX was the first at least, like like, one of the The Singapore Exchange?

新加坡交易所。

Singapore Exchange.

它是最早做永续合约的之一。

It was one of the first one to do perps.

在CME本身、ISDA以及其他交易所，也有很多相关活动。

There is a lot of activity at CME itself, you know, at ISDA, other exchanges.

所以我认为你会看到大家会涌入永续合约这个领域。

So I do think you will see a run into that space around, around perpetual futures.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，这又是一个滚动概念，在全球范围内不断演变。

And, again, it's the rolling concept, you know, moving around the world.

那么定价结构会如何变化呢？

Now how does the pricing structure change?

我不太确定。

I'm not really sure.

但我确定的是，当你看到传统金融的买方，比如资产所有者、投资经理、对冲基金，他们对于去真正的DeFi交易所做永续合约，会有不同程度的谨慎，因为毕竟这些传统金融工具已经有几百年的历史了，对吧。

I do know for sure that, you know, like, when you're looking at a TradFi buy side, right, whether it be an asset owner, investment manager, you know, hedge fund, I think that there are going to be there's going to be varying levels of caution until going to real DeFi exchanges for perps because, again, you know, there's been a there's been hundreds of years of history of these things work right.

他们能够应对金融危机。

They can manage a financial crisis.

你知道，像瀑布式违约这样的场景是行得通的。

You know, the like waterfall default scenarios work.

你回想一下，比如全球金融危机那会儿。

You go back to, you know, the, the GFC.

对吧？

Right?

当时没有任何交易所崩溃。

None of the exchanges, you know, were were were were crumbling.

所以我觉得，真正传统的玩家要进入DeFi交易所的永续合约市场，还需要一段时间。

So I think that it will still take a while for real real traditional players to move into perps on on d on DeFi exchanges.

你有没有发现，你得花很多口舌解释10月6号、10月10号币安发生的事，所有永续合约都归零了。

Do you find yourself having to do a lot of explaining about what happened October 6, October 10, Binance, all the perpetual futures, you know, they went to zero.

他们触发了自动清算。

They had auto liquidations.

你跟客户聊的时候，他们会不会说，那你的产品怎么保证不会出这种事？

You know, when you're talking to clients and stuff, do they say, well, how could that not happen to your product?

对。

Yeah.

所以真的，完全不会发生。

So real really, really not at all.

那是因为我们非常专注于场外交易领域。

And that's because we are we're very much in the OTC world.

我们所有的交易仍然基于ISDA协议和LEI标识。

All of the transactions that we're going to do are still based on ISDA to ISDA, LEI to LEI.

所以让我来

So Break

给我们的听众解释一下。

that down for our audience.

哦，抱歉。

Oh, sorry.

所以，是基于交易对手之间的法律互换协议。

So, based on the the the legal swap agreements between the counterparties.

所以他们互相认识。

So they so they know each other.

懂了。

Got it.

所以有KYC，也就是了解你的客户，AML，反洗钱。

So there's KYC, know your client, AML, anti anti money laundering.

所以他们仍然沿用传统的客户准入流程。

So they're still they still are falling back on their traditional onboarding.

所以你看，比如DRW和高盛。

So if you think about of, you know, a DRW and, a Goldman Sachs.

对吧？

Right?

我们已经有这些协议了。

We have we have we we already have these agreements in place.

我们平台完全清楚，能识别这些协议，然后直接就说这两个对手方是互相认识的。

We know exactly, our platform, will recognize those agreements and basically say that these two counterparties, they've know they know each other.

他们已经建立了交易关系。

They've established trading relationship.

他们现在有这种链下金融的世界。

They have they have this intrad fi world today.

现在他们要转向Canton。

Now they're going to move on to Canton.

他们将在Canton上，在一个完全私有的网络上互相启用。

They're going to enable each other on Canton on a fully private network.

所以你不会收到来自你尚未同意的人的交易。

So you're not going to get a trade coming in from someone that you have not already agreed upon.

因此，你回顾了传统的安排。

Therefore, you've looked back at the, you know, that, you know, traditional, arrangement.

但现在你上链了。

But now you're on chain.

你上链了。

You're on chain.

你有了Canton的隐私和安全，然后你进入数字结算阶段。

You've got the privacy and security of Canton, and then you're moving into the digital settlement.

对。

Yeah.

所以你们约定，我们会用USDC、USDT、代币化国债，或者任何你们要用的资产。

So you agree to say, we're gonna have used USDC, USDT, tokenized treasuries, whatever the asset is that you're going to utilize.

这些都由交易对手方共同商定。

All of those are agreed upon by the counterparties.

所以我们其实不参与零售交易所的业务。

So you're we're really not in the Retail exchange game.

目前我们自己也不碰永续合约这类东西。

We're not we're not we're not we're not doing anything with perps, ourselves at this point in time.

所以我们不会遇到那种“你在引入风险”的问题。

So we're not really running into, oh, you're introducing risk.

对吧？

Right?

其实关键就在于，这个价值对我们来说真的很明确。

It's a matter of, really, it's a matter of, okay, you know, the value of this seems really clear to us.

然后，我们怎么去部署它呢？

And, you know, how can we deploy it?

所以我们正在做的是，审视我们的建设计划。

So what we're doing is we're looking at, our our pipeline of build.

现在我们主要关注这些指数产品，我们和一些做指数代币化服务的预言机合作，把MSCI指数、标普指数、富时指数等等，真正引入到智能合约里。

And right now we're focused on a lot of this index product, we're partnering with some of the the Oracles that are doing the index tokenization services to pick up a an MSCI index, a S and P index, FTSE, whoever it may be, get that actually into the smart contracts.

我们还会把指数本身的法律知识产权也读进来。

We also actually read in the the legal the legal IP rights of the index itself.

所以，如果没有正确的许可结构，我们是不允许交易的。

So we're not allowing trades on where there's where there's no, you know, correct licensing structure in place.

然后，我们当然会在链上完成交易，并进行数字结算。

And then obviously we get the trade on chain, and we're doing the digital settlement.

所以我们不会走那条风险更高的路，因此在这方面也不会受到阻力。

So we're not we're we're we're not at we're not really going down a path, a more risky path, so we're not getting pushed back on that front.

太棒了！

Love it.

那现在，在进入当前市场动态之前，跟我说说你提过好几次的那个叫Canton的平台。

And now tell me, you know, before we kinda get into current market dynamics, there's a platform you've mentioned a couple times called Canton.

对。

Yep.

我相信我们很多听众都知道Canton，就是那个CC代币。

And many of our listeners, I'm sure, know about Canton, the CC token.

去年它基本是风靡全球，今年的势头也依然很猛。

It's something that kinda took the world by storm last year and has a lot of momentum into this year.

对。

Yep.

它的名义结算量在所有不同的实物资产和代币化资产中，可以说是最高的之一，甚至就是最高的。

It has, you know, some of the, if not the most notional settlement volume for all the different real world assets and tokenized assets.

是的。

Yeah.

那你给我们讲讲Canton是什么吧，也许说说你为什么选它而不是像以太坊或Solana这样的平台。

So tell us a little bit about what Canton is, maybe why you chose that instead of something like Ethereum or Solana.

好的。

Yeah.

然后我们想聊聊当前的市场动态。

And then we wanna get into some of the current market dynamics.

好的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我的意思是，对我们来说，最大的因素很明显就是安全和隐私。

I mean, very, very clearly, the the big factor there for us was was security security and privacy.

对吧？

Right?

所以在传统金融领域，你知道，无论是大银行、资产管理公司还是资产所有者

So in the in in TradFi world, you know, whether it's major banks, asset managers, asset owners

在你谈效率之前，在你谈其他任何事情之前，

Before you get to efficiency, before you get to anything,

安全性和隐私是最重要的。

it's security privacy.

安全是第一位的。

Security number one.

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你知道，显然，很多区块链都是开放网络。

So, you know, obviously, you know, the in in a lot of blockchain, they're open networks.

对吧？

Right?

这不是一个开放网络。

This is not a this is not an open network.

这是一个私有网络。

It is a private network.

再说回我之前提到的那个完整的授权层，就是我们彼此认识，在这个平台上互相授权。

And again, going back to what I was saying before with that full entitlement layer of we know each other, we're entitling one another on this platform.

对。

Yep.

这带来了很多宝贵的安全性。

That brings a lot of valuable, security.

而且，所有这些公司都有重大的合规要求，就像我说的，要知道我们要和谁交易。

Also, all these firms have major, as I mentioned, you know, major compliance requirements to know who we're going to be transacting with.

这些都已经完成了，是的。

That's all been done Yeah.