第747集：交易的未来是AI代理与加密货币，对话Public公司CEO莱夫·亚伯拉罕

而且，当你在公共平台上创建代理时，你还会看到确切的工作流程。

And you will also, when you create an agent on public, you will see the exact workflow.

你自己批准它。

You approve it yourself.

所以在实施代理之前，你完全清楚它会做什么以及如何运作。

So you know exactly what it will do and how it acts before you implement the agent.

这些是我们觉得非常、非常、非常重要的事情。

And so those are things we find very, very, very important.

我们内置的另一个方面是真正的彻底透明。

Another aspect we've built in is really kinda like radical transparency.

所以，作为代理，无论它执行了操作还是没有执行操作，你都有它做过的每一件小事的完整历史记录，包括它没做的事情。

And so as an agent, you know, kinda does its actions or does not do actions, you have a full history of every single little thing the agent has done or also has not done.

比如，它检查了某个条件，但条件没达到，你会看到这一点。

And so, for example, it checked something, the criteria wasn't hit, you will see that.

你会知道的。

You will know that.

我们认为这也是非常重要的一点，基本上就是给这些系统很大的信任，对吧，让你确切知道它在做什么、没做什么，因此你可以在真实账户里用真钱、用真实资产去操作，因为所有这些保障措施都已经内置了。

And we think that is another piece that is very, very, very important to basically give a lot of trust to these systems, right, that you know exactly what it's doing, what it's not doing, and therefore you can use it with real money in your real account, with your real assets because all these safeguards are kinda built in.

所以，我把这两点提出来，作为两种不同的方式，让你可以和外面的智能体进行交互。

And so, you know, I I put these two things out there as like two kinda separate different kinda ways on on on, you know, how you can interact with agents out there.

到目前为止，智能体是怎么被使用的？

How have agents been used so far?

比如，你觉得它们在哪些领域用得最多？

Like, what areas do you see them being used the most frequently?

是不是就是普通的交易，比如标普500和纳斯达克？

Is it normal just trading like the S and P five hundred and Nasdaq?

是不是交易更传统的期货合约？

Is it trading more traditional futures contracts?

是不是加密货币交易？

Is it crypto trading?

还是其他领域？

Is it somewhere else?

我很好奇。

I'm curious.

显然，大家首先想到的都是交易策略。

So, obviously, trading strategies is where everyone's minds go first.

对吧？

Right?

在这方面，我们看到的例子比如：如果某只股票跌破200日均线，就在我的账户里买入一定数量，而且不要超过某个频率。

And in that, are basically seeing things like, you know, for example, something like, hey, if a certain stock trades below its two hundred day moving average, buy x amount of it in my account, you know, and don't do it more often than y.

我们还看到期权合约的风险管理。

We are seeing things like risk management of options contracts.

这个非常受欢迎。

It's something that's very popular.

比如你早上可能持有一些期权合约。

So you might have a bunch of options contracts in the morning.

你想确保它们被执行，对吧？

You wanna make sure they exercise, you know?

所以你有一定的标准，然后一个代理就会查看你所有的合约，如果达到某些标准，你就会自动卖出它们，比如说，你明白吗？

And so you have a certain criteria that just and an agent just looks at all your contracts, and if it hits certain criterias, you know, you kinda, you know, sell out of them automatically, for example, you know?

我们还看到像自动买入某些资产下跌的情况等等。

We see things like, automatic buying the dip of certain assets and so on.

另一个我觉得非常有趣的是基于广泛投资组合的税收损失收割。

Another thing I find very interesting is basically a broad portfolio based tax loss harvesting.

所以，你知道，税收损失收割作为一种策略，也是财富顾问可能会为你做的事情，基本上就是查看。

And so, you know, those tax loss harvesting as a strategy is something that also like a wealth adviser might do for you, you know, and basically looking.

大多数人会把它想成，哦，年底快到了，在年底之前，让我看看哪些是亏损的，然后卖掉那些头寸，把它们放在三个月后。

And most people think about it as something of like, oh, the year is ending, you know, before, you know, before I wrap up the year, like, let me, you know, let me see where I'm in the reds and sell those positions put them on there three months from now.

我想重新买入它们或者用这笔钱做别的事情，诸如此类。

I wanna rebuy into them or do something else without money, things like that.

显然，税收损失收割理论上应该全年进行，如果你真的想最大化这个策略的话。

Obviously, Texas harvesting is something you should be doing throughout your entire year in theory if you really wanna maximize that strategy.

而这正是你可以很好地设置代理来做的事情，查看你的投资组合，寻找机会，帮助你在全年、所有资产类别、整个投资组合中进行税收损失收割，你明白吗？

And that is something that you can set up agents obviously very well for that's look at your portfolio, look see you look for opportunities and kinda help your tax sales harvest throughout the entire year, throughout all asset classes, throughout the entire portfolio, you know?

所以这些东西都很有意思。

So those things are are very interesting.

然后我们还看到，比如人们刚开始的时候，基本上会设置代理，但不会立刻进行交易，而是先把它设置成提醒。

And then we also see, like, as people get started, that they basically set up agents, but then instead of making a trade immediately, they just set it up as an alert.

你懂吧？

You know?

而且他们一开始也会有点适应这个过程，布莱斯，你一开始也提到过，比如，嘿，刚开始的时候，我们想通过这些系统建立你的信任。

And they kinda get comfortable to the beginning, little bit too, Bryce, you kind of comment in the beginning of like, hey, as we get started, kind of wanna build your trust with these systems.

所以人们不会让它直接交易，而是先设置好，比如先让它发提醒。

And so instead of letting it trade, people set it up and just like lead to alerts first, for example.

所以有很多类似的事情，你知道，这就是我们目前看到的代理能做的，或者人们用代理做的事情。

And so there's a lot of stuff like that, you know, that's where that we've seen agents do or that we've seen, you know, people use agents for so far.

我很喜欢。

I love it.

而且现在这只是第一版。

And it's just version one right now.

我看了看底部，上面写着版本1.0.0什么的。

I I look in the bottom, and it says version one point o point something or other.

我就想，版本2会是什么样子呢？

I'm like, what's version two gonna look like?

你知道，这个产品的未来会怎样？

You know, what's the future of this product?

我得跟你说，我觉得这些版本号背后其实没什么科学依据。

I gotta I gotta tell you that I I I don't think there's a lot of science right now behind those versioning numbers.

其实就是每次我们更新点东西，版本号就往上涨。

It's really just like whenever we update something, you know, those versioning numbers goes up.

而且就像你说的，都是按两倍递增之类的。

And to your point, it's like in, like, twofold increments and stuff.

但总的来说，幕后其实每天都在更新这些内容。

But that's but generally speaking, you know, behind the scenes, there's updates every single day on this stuff.

好的。

Okay.

而且，构建AI产品的一个问题是，你并不总是知道人们会用它做什么，以及所有的使用场景是什么。

And the the thing with building AI products is you don't always know what people will do and use them for and what all the use cases are.

所以你需要逐步推出这些功能。

So you kinda need to have these rollouts.

再说，我们四个月前就推出了这个，对吧，智能体本身，四个月前推出的。

Again, like we've launched this four months ago now like agents itself, right, launched this four months ago now.

我们也是通过这种候补名单的方式逐步推出的，因为显然我们想非常清楚地了解用户的体验，以及使用场景，这样我们才能围绕它们进行设计。

And we've rolled it out with these waitlist concept also because obviously we wanna have a very clear eye on what experiences people have, but also what are the use cases so we can design around them.

因为如果你让智能体去做一些非常具体、非常小众的事情，我们实际上也可以在系统内设计一些元素，让它更容易或更直观，比如从非常具体的小众智能体开始之类的。

Because if you ask the agent to do something very specific, very niche, you know, we can actually also design elements, you know, within the system that just, you know, make it easier or like more intuitive, you know, to like start with very specific niche agent and stuff like that.

而且，只有人们使用了，你才会知道所有的可能性。

And you don't know until people use them, you know, of what all the possibilities are.

对。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我们现在进入的是一个全新的世界，因为真正的价值已经不再主要取决于人们的技术能力了。

It's it's such a, you know, a new world that we're entering into because it's not really about, you know, people's technical skills anymore that are really where a lot of the value is.

对吧？

Right?

我是说，我肯定你会写代码，或者你的团队都在写代码之类的。

I mean, I'm sure you know how to code or your, you know, your team is all coding and all that kind of stuff.

那曾经是一项非常吃香的技能。

And that used to be a really coveted skill.

以前就会想，天哪，要是我会写代码，我就能赚大钱了。

It's like, man, if I only knew how to code, then I'd be able to make all this money.

现在任何人都可以去用Claude或者Public，直接表达自己的想法。

Now anybody could go to Claude or to public and just express what their thoughts.

所以现在真正的价值其实就在于想法本身，在于那个抽象层面。

So the real value now is actually just in the thought, in the abstraction layer.

就是说，你能不能用人话，用英语或者任何你喜欢的语言，想清楚要做什么，以及怎么去写提示词。

Like, can you think of in in human, you know, English language or whatever language you want, you know, what to do and, you know, how to, you know, prompt.

对吧？

Right?

所以你们在某种程度上迎合了这一点，这真的很酷。

And so it's just it's cool that you guys are catering to that in a sense, you know.

百分之百。

A 100%.

而且我们一直在讨论的这个事情，就是交易从点击按钮变成了表达意图。

And there is also you know, we are we are we're talking about always this thing of that trading went from clicking buttons to expressing intent.

是的。

Yes.

你知道吗？

You know?

所以这又高了一个抽象层次，对吧？

Where and therefore, it is one abstraction layer higher, you know?

而且很多时候你可能只有一个粗略的想法，然后你把它告诉AI，它会帮你完善，因为它可能会提出后续问题，把它变成一个你从未想过的策略，因为你可能之前没有达到那种精细程度等等。

And where often you might have a rough idea and you will express that to the AI, and it will help you refine it because there might be follow-up questions that it needs to turn into a strategy that you've never thought about, you know, because you maybe haven't had that, you know, level of sophistication before and so on.

但与此同时，你也会在做的过程中学习，因为这种交流正在发生，对吧？

But then also you learn while doing because of that exchange that is happening, right?

对。

Yeah.

所以这绝对是百分之百的。

And so there's a 100.

然后我觉得另一个方面是，当我们现在考虑用户界面和AI时，很多这些界面都只是从一个空白的提示框开始。

And then I think one other aspect is when we kind of think about user interfaces and AI, right now, a lot of these interfaces, they just start with this blank prompt field.

这其实是一个相当技术性的起点，因为你必须对自己有一定的了解，才能想出在这个空白的机遇框里输入什么，你知道吗？

And that is actually a quite nerdy place to start because you must have some sophistication in understanding yourself in order to even come up with what to type into this blank field of opportunity, you know?

对。

Yeah.

所以我们现在也在推出一个代理市场，你可以创建代理，分享它，发布它，其他人可以拿来定制，变成自己的。

And so one thing we're rolling out now too is essentially a marketplace of agents, where you create an agent, you can share it, you can publish it, other people can take it and customize it and make it their own.

这样也能激发更多灵感，展示各种可能性，并摆脱那种每个人都需要自己已经具备一定水平才能开始的情况，因为有一个空白框需要你用人类语言提示来填写，就像编码一样，需要更好的措辞。

And so to create more inspiration there as well of all these possibilities and kinda go away from this like everyone needs to already have a level of sophistication themselves in order to get started because there's this blank field that you have to fill with, like, you know, human language prompts prompts coding for, like, a better wording.

对吧？

Right?

完全同意。

Totally.

而且这可能会让人望而却步。

And it could be daunting.

我自己就经历过。

Like, I've experienced that.

就是那种，哇。

It's like, wow.

感觉整个世界都在我面前，对着公共代理输入，但我到底想交易什么呢？

The the world is my oyster here, you know, typing into the public agent, but what do I even wanna trade?

你知道，什么能跑赢标普指数？

You know, what's gonna outperform the S and P?

我不能光跟它说，好好想想吧。

Like, I can't just tell it know, think hard.

跑赢标普500。

Outperform the S and P.

开始吧。

Go.

就是说，它需要一些提示词之类的。

Like, needs it needs, you know, some some some prompting and stuff.

但确实是这样。

But Exactly.

因为，关于智能体的那个老梗一直是这样，就是很多人发推说，你知道的

Because, like, the running, like, like, the running joke with agents has always been this, like, a bunch of people tweeted, you know

别搞错了。

Make no mistakes.

他们总是发推跟我们说，让我赚大钱。

Is it like always tweeting us and being like, make me a lot of money.

别搞错了。

Make no mistakes.

你知道吗？

You know?

显然，事情不是这样运作的，你知道吗？

And obviously, that is not how things work, you know?

我们通常定义的方式是，在最初这个阶段，它更多是为了把你的想法变成行动。

And the way we often define it is like, in this very first phase, it is really much more designed to turn your ideas into action.

它还不一定是为了给你想法。

It is not necessarily yet designed to turn, you know, or to give you ideas.

当然，这随着时间会演变，你知道吗？

And that will evolve over time, of course, you know?

所以如果我说你可以给它一个粗略的想法，然后打磨它，基本上得到一个完整的、成熟的代理，我会说，那个想法的粗糙程度显然会，你知道，它会达到一个点，你可以给它越来越粗糙的想法，来得到一个成熟的代理。

So if I say you can give it a rough idea and then finesse it to basically get to a full, you know, fully formed agent, you know, I would say like that roughness of idea will obviously, you know, it will get to a point where you can give it rougher and rougher and rougher ideas, you know, to get a fully formed agent.

所以你会越来越接近这个阶段，它会帮你创造想法，或者帮你完善想法，所以它会模糊这条线，到底它是在给你想法，还是在帮你把想法变成行动。

And so you will get more and more to this camp where it will help you create an idea or it will, you know, refine your idea, and so it will blur this line of how much is it, you know, giving you an idea versus, you know, helping you turn your idea into an action.

随着它变得越来越聪明和成熟。

The the kinda smarter and more developed this this becomes.

对吧？

Right?

这挺有意思的。

It it was funny.

这让我想起前几天有一份大报告。

This this reminds me the other day, there was a a big report.

你知道，这些基础模型现在变得特别聪明。

You know, like these these models, the the foundational models, they're getting so smart.

它们好像在解决各种开放数学问题。

They're like solving all of these open math problems.

对吧？

Right?

还有那些五十年甚至一百年都没人解答的开放问题。

And open, you know, questions that, you know, haven't been left unanswered for fifty or a hundred years.

然后有个来自Anthropic的工程师，提出了一个叫黎曼或海曼猜想的开放假设。

And so there was this one, like, engineer from anthropic, and there's this open hypothesis called the Ryman or the Hyman hypothesis.

然后那个Claude Opus，或者我觉得可能是Mythos级别的模型吧。

And the the Claude opus or I think it was probably the mythos class or something.

它其实只是在做一件事，就是那个工程师一直在对它说，再努力想想。

All it was doing was the the engineer, the person was just saying, think harder.

相信自己。

Believe in yourself.

你能行的。

You got this.

因为模型一直回来说，哦，我搞不定。

And like because it kept coming back with, oh, I can't figure it out.

我做不到。

I can't do this.

然后工程师就一直用鼓励的话去提示它，最后它真的解决了。

And it just kept prompting it with encouragement, and eventually, it figured it out.

这件事在推特上，也就是X上，一下子就火了。

And so this went viral on Twitter and or X.

对吧？

Right?

因为那个工程师做的只是告诉AI代理，继续试，换个角度想想，跳出思维定式，结果它真的做到了。

Because all the engineer was doing was just telling the the AI agent, just keep trying, you know, think of a different angle, think out of the box, and it freaking did it.

所以我们生活的世界完全不一样了。

And so it's just a whole different world that we're living in.

这真的太不可思议了，而且想想就觉得很有趣。

It's it's really just incredible, and, it's just fun to think about.

但是，为了给AI代理产品做个总结吧。

But, to to to kinda, you know, put put a bow on, you know, the AI agent product.

我只是好奇，你们正在构建的AI代理大脑，会不会有扩展，最终有可能让它甚至离开经纪账户。

I'm just curious if there will be any extension of the AI agent brain that you guys are building to eventually have it potentially even move off the brokerage account.

我的意思是，加密货币的酷之处在于它是一种不记名资产。

And what I mean by that is what's so cool about crypto is it's a bearer asset.

它是数字化的。

It's digital.

你们可以加入加密货币钱包功能，这样就能去探索DeFi，或者像Morpho、Sky这些不同的平台。

And you guys could have a crypto wallet functionality that could go and traverse DeFi or, you know, Morpho and Sky and all these different things.

而且它可以代表某个注册用户来操作。

And it could do it on behalf of some registered user.

然后，我基本上可以输入，比如说，公开的，也许。

And, you know, I could basically type into, you know, public, maybe.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这里有个免费的主意给你。

Here's an idea for you free of charge.

就像，嘿，去DeFi上找最好的收益，用公共钱包，它就能搞定。

But like, hey, go go look for the best yields on DeFi and, you know, use the public wallet and it would work.

我只是好奇你们会不会考虑这个想法。

I mean, I'm just curious if you would ever have that as an idea.

不会。

No.

百分之百。

A 100%.

我们的想法是，你要考虑给这个代理多少决策权，或者说自由决策的空间。

And the way we think about it is that there is a sense of how much, decision making or free decision making do you give the agent.

我觉得一开始给的很少。

And I think it starts off with very little.

你要尽可能保持确定性，这样才能建立信任。

You wanna be as deterministic as possible to also build the trust.

然后第二个层次就是，代理内部的某些具体动作可以有更多的自主决策自由。

Then the second level becomes this thing where specific actions within an agent can have more freedom in own decision making.

举个例子，比如代理上网去操作，你可能会说，嘿。

And to give you an example, you know, back to, like, agent going out onto the Internet, you know, you might be, hey.

当有传闻说某家公司要被纳入标普指数时，就买入这家公司。

Buy a company when it's rumored to be added to the S and P.

对。

Right.

那你就会问，谁来决定什么叫传闻呢？

Now you're gonna be like, so who makes a decision of what does rumored mean?

你懂吧？

You know?

然后你可以和这个代理来回沟通，比如定义具体的标准，比如你信任哪些新闻来源等等，诸如此类，你明白吗？

And you could and you could be, okay, are you now going back and forth with the agent on, like, defining that specific criteria of, like, which new sources do you trust, etcetera, la la la, you know?

或者你在那一刻给代理留一些开放的决策空间，这显然也有风险，咱们直说吧，你懂吗？

Or do you leave some, you know, open decision making to the agent in that moment, which is obviously also a risk piece, let's be straight, you know?

代理可以自己出去，自己判断，然后说，你知道吗？

And the agent can go out and kinda, like, determine it themselves and be like, you know what?

这个人发了条推文，根据我对某些因素的评估，这个来源我给它一个概率评级等等，因此我认为这是一个传闻，我们认定这个工作流可行，所以我现在就买了这家公司。

This person tweeted something, you know, and because of my assessment of x y z, this is a source that, you know, I put a certain probability rating on and so on, and therefore I take it as a rumor that, you know, we say is a yes this workflow and therefore I've purchased this company now.

我觉得这适用于互联网上任何可以有不同解读的行为，你懂吗？

I think that applies to essentially any action on the internet that can be up for interpretation, you know?

所以，或者说，一般来说，互联网上可以采取的任何行动，你懂吗？

And so, or any action that can be taken on the internet, generally speaking, you know?

我觉得这绝对是未来的趋势，但这里的细节真的很重要，对吧？

And I think that is definitely something that, you know, think things are moving towards, but the nuances here really matter, right?

比如说，现在在Public里面，代理能访问的每个数据源都是直接接入的。

So right now within public, for example, every data source that the agent has access to is something that is like directly plugged in.

这些数据源可能是我们花了很多钱，直接从纳斯达克获取的特定费用数据之类的。

It's something that, you know Lock and It's like we might spend a lot of money on to get the specific fee directly from NASDAQ or something, you know, and so on.

所以这些都是经过验证的、可信的来源，代理可以基于这些来源采取行动。

And so these are, like, verified, trusted sources, you know, that the agent can make actions on.

你越是开放这些来源，显然代理解读的数据源质量也可能会下降。

And the further you open that, the further, obviously, also just like the quality of data source that the agent interprets might go down.

这可能会变得有点主观，你怎么判断这是不是一个可靠的数据来源呢？

It might become a little bit up for interpretation of how about you believe this is a proper, trustable source of data or not?

而这些细节，我觉得正是开放领域思考、开放领域行动对互联网代理变得重要的地方。

And that is really like, those nuances is, I think, where this open field thinking, open field action taken for an agent of the internet you know, becomes important.

作为用户，你如何把握在那一刻给代理多少自由呢？

And how how do you as a user deal with, you know, how much freedom you give to the agent in that moment?

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

说到这个话题，我想到的不是问题，而是评论，比如 Chainlink。

On that on that topic, it it kinda makes me think of isn't really a question, but just a comment, but like Chainlink.

对吧？

Right?

比如 Chainlink 有经过验证的数据集，人们可以接入进去，然后说，好的。

Like, Chainlink, has these verified datasets that people can, you know, jack into and say, okay.

我想要这个经过验证的数据源，因为我不希望我的代理的数据源被篡改之类的。

I want this verified data source because I don't want any tampering to be in my agent's, you know, source and stuff.

所以，我觉得在这个世界里，其实我并没有持有 Chainlink，所以这不是我在推销我的持仓什么的。

So, I think in the world I mean, I actually don't have any exposure to Chainlink, so this isn't me, like, shelling my bags or anything.

但我认为随着 AI 代理的兴起，它确实有很好的发展空间。

But I think it it really does have a good place in the world as AI agents take off.

他们会需要去中心化的、经过验证的数据集，因为大多数人根本负担不起直接接入纳斯达克的费用。

They're gonna need, you know, decentralized datasets that are verified, because, you know, most people won't be able to, to afford a direct link to the Nasdaq.

所以，如果能拿到一个类似、质量差不多，但经过验证、去中心化、众包的数据源，那可能会很有意思。

And so getting something that's maybe just similar, kind of as good, but it's verified, it's centralized, it's crowdsourced, whatever That could be interesting.

而且我觉得，在公共领域，你现在已经有那些了，比如你可以用代理来做研究，或者用代理来构建一个执行工作流，让它替你执行操作。

And I think it's also, you know, on public, you currently have those, like, you can use the agent to research or you can use an agent to just, like, build essentially, like, execution workflow where it does actions on your behalf.

这两者很快就会融合。

And these two ones are gonna merge quite soon.

随着它们融合，还有一个方面就是数据集的问题，不仅仅是数据源，而是那些能给你带来优势的数据集，对吧？

And as they merge, there's also this aspect of what is the data sets, not just sources, data sets that give you some edge, right?

所以，现在在某些对冲基金里，有人会构建预测模型之类的，因为那是他们的专有资产，他们认为那是他们创造的优势。显然，理论上，只要拥有知识和工具，任何人都能做到。

And so, well right now in some hedge funds somewhere, someone will build some forecasting models and whatnot, because they are proprietary to them and they're thinking that is the edge that they're creating, that is obviously something that, in theory, anyone can do if they have the knowledge and the tools to do so.

而AI显然是赋予人们知识和工具的一种方式。

And AI is obviously one way to give people the knowledge and the tools to do that.

所以，你完全可以想象，在加密货币交易中，你会如何创造出这样的东西。

And so you can very much see how you will essentially create something in crypto trading.

可能你会有一套自己的方法来分析哪些钱包比较重要，然后试着搞清楚他们什么时候在买什么。

It might be, you know, you might have a certain way to analyze, you know, what are important wallets and, you know, trying to figure out what are they buying when.

如果你觉得发现了某种规律，比如当这些特定钱包买入某个币的时候，那个币往往会在那个时间点上涨，等等等等。

And if you feel like, oh, there's a pattern that you have found to emerge when these specific wallets buy a coin, then that thing tends to go up at this moment in time, etcetera, etcetera.

然后你会用AI来做这些研究，让分析变成一种动态的、能自动更新的智能体，然后你可以根据这个分析结果，用另一个智能体来采取行动。

And you will use you know, AI to essentially do that research and then have that be an analysis that is like a living analysis, like an agent that will update automatically, and then you can take actions on the back of that with an agent.

我觉得这些在那个时候会变得特别令人兴奋，因为你不光可以用AI来建立虚拟工作流，还可以创建属于你自己、反映你自己思考的独特数据集，然后基于这些来采取行动。

You know, those are the things that become, I think, super exciting in that moment because, you know, you can use AI not just to, here's my virtual workflow, but also to create unique data sets that are proprietary to yourself and your own thinking to then, you know, take actions on.

嗯，另外一件让我们印象深刻的事情是你们发布的一些页面，或者说你们公布的一些信息。

Well, one of the other things that really stood out to us was some of the pages that you all have, or information that you all have released here.

我记得好像是四月份的时候，你们追踪了超过60家私营公司，包括OpenAI、Anthropic和Stripe这些。

And I think it happened back in April, but it was over, like, 60 different private companies that you all were tracking, including things like OpenAI and Anthropic and Stripe.

这样做的好处是，它能让散户投资者在公司还没上市之前，就获得这种机构级别的数据。

And what this does is it gives retail investors this kind of institutional grade data before the company's even IPO.

所以我想知道你能不能多跟我们讲讲这个，因为最近大家都在努力获取更多信息，开放这些私营公司，甚至可能让人们直接投资它们。

So I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about that because that has been a big push lately is to either get more information, open up these private companies, and potentially even let people invest in them.

而且你也看到了，我觉得这基础在加密货币上已经打好了，首先是通过代币化。

And you've seen kind of I would say the groundwork for that be really laid on crypto with tokenization first.

但现在你们又把它提升到了一个新的层次，就是说，不仅可能让你接触到这些，当然这取决于你在哪里，我也很好奇你们是否能在公开市场上做到这一点，而且还能获得这种机构级别的数据。

But, again, now you guys are kinda bringing it to the next level and saying, not only can you maybe get access to it, again, depending on where you go, and I'd be curious to hear if you can do that on public, but also get this institutional grade data as well.

是的。

Yep.

没错。

Exactly.

我觉得首先，显然，我们现在生活的世界里，公司上市的时间比以前晚得多。

I think first off, obviously, we're living in a world where companies now go public so much later in their life.

因为私募市场已经变得非常成熟，有大量的资金在里面，而且在后期阶段，流动性其实相当好，以至于这些公司有奢侈的选择，不必上市。

Because the private markets have become so mature that there's so much money in the private markets, and they're actually, in the late stages, fairly liquid, you know, to a point where, you know, these companies just have the luxury that they don't have to go public.

对吧？

Right?

以前，像谷歌这样的公司，在成立几年后，估值几十亿美元的时候就上市了，他们之所以上市，是因为他们不得不这样做，因为没有足够的大型基金可以筹集资金。

Back in the day when like, you know, Google and so on went public when they were, you know, a few years old and, you know, at like a few billion dollars valuations and stuff, they they did that because they had to, because there were not enough big funds that they could raise money from.

所以，对他们来说，要融资就得去公开市场。

So, like, for them to raise money, they had to go to the public markets.

所以他们必须上市。

And so they had to IPO.

但现在情况已经不一样了。

That is just not the case anymore.

因此，公司上市的时间越来越晚，规模也越来越大。

And so therefore, you have companies go public way later in their life when they're way larger and so on.

现在甚至出现了一些万亿市值的公司，在上市时就已经是全球前十的大公司了。

And so now you're getting to a point where you have trillion dollar companies, you know, of, like, a public like this at this stage and so on, you know, or a space that just has been that go public at a point where at the point where they go public, they're top 10 largest company in the world.

你明白吗？

You know?

对。

Like Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这太疯狂了。

That is insane.

这完全是另一个世界。

Like, that is just such a different world.

所以首先，这意味着，你知道，散户和普通人能接触到这些公司的时间确实有延迟，而且他们自己也需要这种广泛的流动性等等。

And so first off, that just means that, you know, that, you know, yes, there is a delay between when retail and regular people have access to them and, you know, their own kind of needs to to, you know, have this kind of broad liquidity and such.

而且我觉得这对金融市场的健康不利，你知道，美国现在有多少上市公司？

And I think that's bad for the health of the financial markets, you know, like The US now has what?

不到4000家，而二十年前差不多是这个数字的两倍。

Sub 4,000 public companies used to be close to double that, you know, twenty years ago or so.

所以这未必健康，因为它还造成了市场的集中。

And so that is necessarily healthy because it also creates, you know, concentration in the markets.

说到底，我们最后都投资了同样的公司。

Like we're all invested in the same companies at the end of the day.

对。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

等等之类的。

And so on.

所以即使只是为了美国金融市场的健康，我觉得这也不一定是件好事。

And so even just for the for the health of The US financial markets, I think it's not a necessarily good thing.

那么对于普通散户投资者来说，首先，我觉得确实需要更多的创新，虽然找不到更好的词，但就是让这些人能更早地接触到这些公司。

Now for, like, you know, regular retail investors, that means number one, yes, I think there needs to be much more, call it innovation, for lack of better wording, around how these people can get access to this company sooner.

我觉得这不只是代币化之类的技术问题。

Think it's not just a technological question of tokenization and stuff.

说到底，那个工具只是个包装而已。

That's just a wrapper at the end of the day, the instrument.

我觉得这很大程度上是个监管问题，比如合格投资者认定、相关法律，基本上就是谁被允许投资这些公司，还有财务披露，以及你能获取多少关于这些公司的信息，这样才能真正分析你买的东西值不值，等等。

I think it's very much a regulatory question, accreditation, laws, basically who's allowed to invest in them, financial disclosures, access or information do you have on these companies so you can do a real analysis on the value of what you're buying and so on.

所以我觉得要真正实现这一点，还有很多工作要做。

And so there's, I think, a lot of work that needs to get done to really enable that.

但在公司这一端，我觉得现在的情况是，成为一家上市公司的过程可能提前开始了。即使公司以后才真正上市，这个准备阶段也可以更早启动，不再只是像以前那样，先向SEC提交S-1文件，然后搞个路演就完事了。

But then on the other end, on the company side, it also, I think, nowadays is that journey to become a public company, even though the company goes public later, the journey might start sooner, where it's not just gonna be like, well, we filed for, you know, OS1 with the SEC now, and, you know, then we're gonna do a roadshow and go public, and that's it.

但现在像Stripe这样的公司，多年来每年都会发布年度报告和声明，披露一些数据，介绍业务情况，还会做大型演示来讲解业务等等。

But now it's like you have something like Stripe that for years now has put out an annual report, an annual statement, where they disclose some numbers, where they talk about the business, know, where they do a big presentation, they might talk about the business, you know, and so on.

所以它们其实已经在锻炼如何向公众汇报、如何作为一家上市公司运作的“肌肉记忆”了。

So like, they're already kinda developing the muscle of what it means to report to the public, you know, what it means to be a public company, etcetera.

我觉得当这个准备过程提前开始时，积累散户投资者群体的工作也随之提前启动了。

And I think when that journey kinda starts sooner, that also starts sooner in terms of building a book of retail investors.

所以我们考虑的是，平台上已经有这些私有公司了，首先，如果有机会让人们投资这些私有公司，我们可以根据具体的工具和监管要求等，在这一点上提供帮助。

And so while we think about it is that like, hey, we have these private companies on the platform, and number one, if there is opportunities to give people access to invest into these private companies, then maybe we can facilitate that on one end depending on what the instrument is and regulatory requirements and so on.

另一方面，在公司这边，我们也可以为这些公司提前积累一批散户投资者群体。

But on the other end, also on the company side, we can build already a following of retail investors for these companies.

这样等到它们真正上市时，其实已经在提交S-1表格和正式IPO之前，与可能多达数十万的散户投资者完成了沟通和初步路演式的关系建立。

So when they eventually actually go public, they've essentially done the communication and pre roadshow kinda you know, relationship building with potentially hundreds of thousands of retail investors before they actually found S1, before they actually go public and so on.

我们也觉得这点非常有意思。

And we find that very interesting as well.

对吧？

Right?

所以这其实对两边都有好处，既能提供市场，又能实现突破。

And so it kinda serves both sides offsets, like, like, offer market and then breakout.

我很喜欢这个想法。

Love that.

是的。

Yeah.

还有，顺便说一句，我觉得当一家上市公司的CEO压力真的很大，而且有太多繁琐的规章制度。

And, again, just kind of a comment, but, like, I imagine being a CEO of a public company is is quite stressful, and there's so many so much red tape.

而作为一家私营公司的CEO，压力可能会小很多，也更享受一些，而且不用面对上市公司必须应对的各种各样的事情。

And being the CEO of a private company is probably a lot less stressful and more enjoyable, and you don't have, you know, all sorts of different things that a public, you know, company, might have to, you know, be beholden to and so on.

所以我觉得这可能是另一个原因。

So I think that's probably another reason.

比如说，嘿。

Like, hey.

就是说，我们其实不用非得做这件事。

Like, we don't have to do it.

能拖就尽量拖吧。

Let's delay it as much as possible.

对了，你们公司是上市的还是私有的？

By the way, are are you guys public or private?

我们是私有的。

We're private.

我们是私有的。

We're private.

你们是私有的。

You're private.

不过，我觉得，现在虽然是私有，但感觉上也像是公开的，至少目前是这样。

But I so it's like a sense of, like, I also public is private still for now.

而且，我之前也聊过这件事。

And, I was talking about this thing.

比如说，如果你是上市公司的CEO，你就得是那种能从推销公司、宣传公司中获得能量的人。

Like, if you are if you're a public company CEO, you have to be the type of person that gets energy out of essentially, like, pitching your company and marketing your company all the time.

你知道，如果你是上市公司的CEO，你就成了公司的宣传员。

You know, like, you're becoming a hype man if you're a public company CEO.

所以，如果你一想到要开财报电话会议就头疼，只想赶紧结束，那你可能不适合上市。

And so if you're someone who's like dreading to go on an earnings call and you just wanna get it over with, you know, you're likely Don't go public.

你很可能当不了上市公司的CEO。

You're likely not gonna be a public company CEO.

但如果你是那种，我要把这东西拼命推销出去的人。

But if you're someone who's like, I'm gonna pitch the shit out of this thing.

我迫不及待想开这次财报电话会议。

I cannot wait for this earnings call to happen.

我要让这些人看看。

I'm gonna show these people.

你懂吗？

You know?

这应该成为他们的信条。

Like, that that needs to be the mantra.

对吧？

Right?

而且你会发现，那些CEO乐于接受这一点、喜欢这么做、并且从中获得能量的公司，它们的公开市场表现，从投资者关系的角度来看，也会发生变化。

And you kinda see that with, like, with companies that have CEOs who embrace it, who love to do that, who get energy out of it, you also see how their public market comes from, like, an investor relations perspective change.

你知道吗？

You know?

突然之间，电话会议变成了视频会议。

Suddenly, the call becomes a video call.

你知道吗？

You know?

突然之间，整个安排更像体育比赛后的采访，比如对教练的采访之类的，你懂吗？

Suddenly, the whole setup is closer to, you know, wrap up after a sports game, like, you know, the interview with a coach and stuff, you know?

对。

Yeah.

突然之间，你就不只是每季度做一次了，而是要举办活动，谈谈你的数据什么的，甚至可能每月一次，等等等等。

Suddenly, you know, you're not just doing it once a quarter, but you're gonna host events where you're gonna talk about, you know, your numbers and whatnot, maybe even on a monthly basis, you know, etcetera, etcetera.

所以我觉得这确实很取决于你作为CEO是什么样的人。

And so I do think it's very like depends on the type of person that you are as a CEO.

而且我觉得实际上有很多人会从中获得乐趣，甚至可能因此获得更高的估值倍数，因为他们有讲好故事的能力。

And I think there's actually a bunch of people that will get joy out of it and actually maybe even command an even higher multiple because of it because they have the skill set to tell a really good story.

哇。

Wow.

我觉得我会是一个相当不错的上市公司CEO。

I think I'd be a pretty good public public CEO.

你不觉得吗，Brennan？

Don't you think, Brennan?

我也这么觉得。

I think so too.

我能想象Bryce在财报电话会议上大放异彩。

I could see Bryce on those earnings calls crushing

在电话会议上，人们都叫我终极加密货币宣传员。

it on the People call me the ultimate crypto hype man.

所以，我确实只需要一家好公司。

So, I I definitely I would just need a a great company.

不过话说回来，布伦南，好公司。

But anyhow, Brennan great company.

对。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我知道。

I know.

但是，嗯，我短期内不想上市。

But, well, I don't wanna go public anytime soon.

对。

Yeah.

除了这些，另一个大家热议的话题就是预测市场了。

Well, life one of the other big, big talking points here outside of these has been the prediction markets.

我是说，传统金融界的人都在讨论它们。

I mean, people in traditional financial talking about them.

加密货币圈的人也在讨论它们。

People in crypto are talking about them.

感觉至少一年来，这已经成了大家茶余饭后的热门话题，而且你在这个话题上也有不少见解。

It has been the talk of the town for what feels like at least a year now, and it's something that you've had a decent amount to to say on the topic.

对吧？

Right?

因为人们看待它的角度各不相同。

Because you have people that look at it through very different lenses.

有那些，怎么说呢，沉迷赌博的人，他们特别喜欢参与其中。

You have the, dare I say, the degenerate gambling side of things, who people love to get into it and get get involved.

但也有一些人用预测市场来对冲风险，或者用于其他目的。

But then you have people that are hedging with prediction markets, and they're using it for other purposes as well.

你之前把预测市场作为投资组合工具和体育博彩分得很清楚。

You've kinda drawn a clear line between prediction markets as portfolio tools versus sports betting.

你能再跟我们多聊聊这个，以及这两个领域是怎么交织在一起的吗？

Can you talk to us a little bit more about that and how these two worlds kinda collide?

对。

Yeah.

我觉得预测市场，也就是事件合约，其实是个挺老的工具了。

I'd say prediction markets, aka events contracts, is a fairly old instrument.

对吧？

Right?

比如，九十年代就有天气合约，用来让大宗商品交易员对冲他们的头寸之类的。

Like, weather contracts were introduced in the nineties and stuff for commodities traders to kinda hedge their positions and so on.

所以，这个工具其实存在挺久了，但普通散户基本上接触不到。

So, like like, that instrument has been around for a while, but retail access to the instrument has basically been nonexistent.

而且，显然有一堆监管变化，改变了这个工具能用在哪些地方，所以我觉得事件合约的应用场景被扩展了，对吧？

And you had obviously a bunch of regulatory changes in terms of what this instrument can be applied to, and therefore, would say that the use case of an events contract has been stretched, right?

所以你看，突然就被用来做体育博彩了。

Hence, you know, suddenly it's being used for sports betting.

还被用来预测C罗会不会哭之类的。

It's being used for, you know, if Ronaldo's gonna cry or not, you know, and so on.

所以

And so

就是，它已经被扩展得很广了。

there's, you know, there's it it has been stretched.

对吧？

Right?

说到你那个观点，我觉得这对这个工具本身来说，它很快就背上了一个坏名声，因为大家就把它看成那种新时代的赌场玩意儿，就是给普通赌徒用的，差不多就这样。

Excited to your point, I think what that means for the instrument itself, I think it quickly gets a bad rep because it just gets seen as this, you know, new age casino thing, you know, that is just being used for just the general gamblers and it's kind of it.

但实际上，在另一边，它其实是一个真正的金融工具，而且也能带来很多价值，尤其对一些更专业的投资者来说，对吧？

And even though on the other side, actually is a real financial instrument, that also has and can have a lot of value, especially for some more sophisticated investors, right?

然后另一个好处是，它不只是一个工具，它还是一个数据来源。

And then obviously the other good result is it's an instrument, but it's also a data source.

所以我们是怎么想的呢，我们很快也要进入预测市场了，但我们基本上把它看作是一种让你交易那些影响市场走势的事件的方式。

And so how we think about it is, and we're going into prediction markets soon as well, But we think about it as like, essentially it is a way for you to trade the events that move the markets.

所以就是那些和你的投资组合相关的事情。

And so things that are related to your portfolio.

这可能是因为你能够深入分析一场财报电话会议。

And that might be because you're able to dissect an earnings call.

我总是举这个例子，比如，如果你是个特斯拉的超级粉丝，你知道，对。

I always make this example of, like, if you're, like, a big Tesla fan, you know Yeah.

而且你对他们的能源业务了如指掌，还自己建了预测模型，你懂的，你就是特别了解那个业务，那你就会在上面下注。

And you have a really good grip on their energy business and you've built your own forecasting model and, like, you, you know, whatnot, and you just understand that business really well, you would've placed a trade on that.

你不想被他们没达到Model Y的销量数字这种事儿拖累。

And you don't wanna be bogged down by, you know, them not hitting their model y numbers.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如说，你知道的。

You know, for example.

对。

Yeah.

所以我觉得这些东西非常重要、非常有意义，因为每个人都有自己擅长的领域，对某些事情有独特的理解，而公司变成了拥有五十条不同业务线的大巨头。

And so those are things that I've that that that that I find very, you know, important and meaningful because, people have certain skills and have certain understandings of certain things and companies become these big behemoth things that has 50 different business lines.

所以能够把公司的表现拆分成更小的部分，我觉得就是一个很好的应用场景。

And so being able to dissect company performance into smaller pieces, I think, is, for example, a very great use case.

另外，我们显然在AI代理方面投入很深，所以这些数据也可以用于其他方面。

The other thing is also, obviously, we are very deep in AI agents, and so that data can be used for other things as well.

我们内部讨论的一个例子是，比如你关注美联储利率的市场，如果合约中显示美联储下季度加息概率超过70%，你就卖出你的国债。

And one example that we talk about internally is this, for example, a thing that like, hey, you might look at the market of the Fed rate, and you'll be, okay, if the probability in the contract of the Fed to raise rates, you know, next quarter goes up over 70%, sell my treasuries.

对。

Yeah.

你知道，这是一种债券交易，可以说是你能想到的最无聊的交易之一。

You know, which is a bonds trade, like one of the most boring things you can imagine, you know, and so on.

所以突然之间，这个现在被视为非常堕落的赌徒式的东西，实际上对债券交易员来说可能非常有价值。

And so suddenly you can have this thing that right now is kind of being viewed as this like very degenerate gambler kind of thing, you know, but it can actually have very meaningful value for someone who's a bonds trader, you know, and stuff.

这些就是我们个人非常兴奋的事情。

And those are the things that we are personally quite excited about.

而且，再说一次，我们主要把它看作是对你的投资组合有影响的事件，也就是那些能推动市场波动的事件，你明白吗？

And it's, again, principally, we think about it as it's the events that have an impact on your portfolio, AKA the events that move the markets, You know?

而现实是，罗纳尔多会不会哭，这不会影响市场。

And the reality is if Ronaldo's gonna cry or not, it's not gonna move the markets.

而且我认为这可能会

And I think that that could

给那些领域带来更多的流动性和兴奋感，我觉得普通年轻投资者对这些领域不太感兴趣。

bring more liquidity and excitement to some of those areas that I would say the average young investor doesn't get a lot of interest out of.

对吧？

Right?

想想看，像我这样二十多岁、三十多岁甚至更年轻的投资者，我不知道最后一次听到他们谈论想做国债或债券是什么时候，甚至除了关心它对风险市场的影响之外，他们根本不在乎。

If you think about probably the the person my age in their twenties and thirties or maybe even younger that invest, I don't know the last time I've heard any of them talk about wanting to do treasuries or bonds or any of that and even caring other than how it affects the risk on markets.

所以也许这确实能增加一些共鸣。

So maybe that does add a little bit more relatability.

也许这会激励他们更愿意去关注和参与这些。

Maybe it it incentivizes them a bit more to actually care and get involved with those.

如果真是这样，流动性就会增加。

If it does, it increases liquidity.

兴趣也会提高。

Increases interest.

而且我还觉得，人们越了解这些工具，比如国债、债券之类的，你刚才提到的那些，普通投资者越懂这些，对大家就越好，因为这会带来普遍的市场知识。

And I also think that the the better people understand those kind of tools, treasuries and bonds and other stuffs that that that you were talking about, like, the more that the average investor understands those, the better it is for everyone because there's general market knowledge that comes from that.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

No.

完全同意。

A 100.

百分之百同意。

A 100%.

而且我还会一直关注，我觉得在预测市场，也就是事件合约里的机会，其实更多是在真正的市场这块。

And I would also always look at, like, I think the opportunity in position markets, aka events contracts, is more in really the market stuff.

因为如果你看看实际机构投资带来的交易量，你知道的，我不知道，可能比美国体育博彩市场的零售交易量高出100倍。

Because if you look at the volumes coming from, like, actual institutional investing and so on, like, it's, you know, I don't know, like, you know, a 100 times more than what, you know, the sports betting market in The US is, you know, for retail.

而且平均交易规模也会大得多。

And the average trade size is gonna be tremendously more.

对吧？

Right?

就像现在，如果你看到Kaldi或者其他平台图表上弹出的那些小数字，都是5美元、20美元、50美元、15美元，你知道吗？

Like, right now, if you see, like, the little numbers that are popping up on a chart on Kaldi or something, it's, $5, $20, $50, $15, you know?

然后你可以给这些数字加上两个零，如果你进入零售投资领域，实际上可以加上四个零，如果你进入机构投资领域的话。

And, like, you can add two zeros to that, You know, if you go into just like retail investing, you can actually add four zeros to that if you go into institutional.

对吧？

Right?

所以我觉得那里的机会，就是大得多。

And so it's just like, there is, I think the opportunity there is, you know, just way larger.

这正是让我们感到兴奋的地方。

And that's the stuff that we're excited about.

太棒了。

I love it.

好了，Leif，既然你还有几分钟时间，我想快速过几个问答环节，确保我们对 Public 平台的一切都理解透彻了。

Well, look, Leif, while we still have you for just a handful of minutes more, I do have a little lightning round, question question answer I wanted to just run by you to make sure we've really, sufficiently grokked everything at public.

你觉得这个快问快答怎么样？

But is a little lightning round sound cool?

四个、五个问题，大概是这样？

Four four, five questions, something like that?

好的。

Cool.

请说。

Go for it.

好。

Okay.

我知道我们得在整点的时候结束。

I I know we gotta get out of here at the top of the hour.

所以，快速问一下，关于Public，我们还没聊到的最酷的功能是什么？

So, real quick, is, you know, what's the number one coolest feature that we haven't discussed yet about public?

天哪。

Jesus Christ.

第一。

Number one.

好的。

Okay.

收入中心。

Income Hub.

你能看到你从收益、债券支付、高收益现金和股息中赚到的所有钱，然后还能预测未来的收入。

Your ability to see all the money you make from yields and bonds payments and high yield cash and dividends and then project them out into the future.

太棒了。

Love it.

这个真不错。

That's a great one.

Public 和银行一样安全吗？

Is public as safe as a bank?

我觉得我们比银行还安全。

I would say we're safer than a bank.

如果你在金融服务业和科技行业工作过，你会震惊于这个行业竟然建立在 FTP 服务器和 CSV 文件之上，这简直太离谱了。

And if you've ever worked in financial services and tech, you will be mind boggled by how the industry is built on top of FTP servers with CSV files that is effing ridiculous.

我们团队里有一位非常非常资深、非常优秀的工程师，他总讲一个末日故事，他说，就凭这些老公司的构建方式和用 Cobalt 等语言写的技术栈，总有一天，某家银行或券商会倒闭，而且再也起不来。

We have one engineer on the team who is a very, very, very senior, great engineer, and he always has this, like, doomsday story that he tells where he's like, just based off how old all these companies are built and the technology stacks that are built in Cobalt and whatnot, But he's like, one day, one of these banks and one of these brokerages will go down, and they will not go back up.

哎哟。

Oof.

吓人。

Scary.

好吧。

Alright.

所以我特别喜欢这个。

So I love that.

另一个问题是，市场什么时候开放？

The other one was when marketplace?

不。

No.

那个市场什么时候开放，让我们能看到大家的跟单交易？

When when is the, the marketplace gonna be open for us to look at everybody's, in in copy trade, essentially?

几周之内。

Within weeks.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

我喜欢。

I like it.

几周之内。

Within weeks.

还有一个问题，我知道你也有游戏行业的背景，对吧。

Another question, I know you have a background in gaming as well Sure.

可能是在你以前的生活里。

From from your from your maybe your past life.

但为什么加密游戏一直没火起来，以后会火吗？

But why did crypto gaming never take off, and will it?

顺便说一句，那是很久以前的事了，尤其是青少年时期，甚至更早，在我小时候的房间里。

By the way, that is, like, a long time ago, especially a teenager out of my preteenager, like, out of my kid's room somewhere.

我其实还是觉得它会火，只是看哪家公司会先进入这个领域。

I actually still think it will, and I think it's just a question of which company is gonna go into it.

而且我觉得，如果你看看Valve，他们刚刚在《反恐精英》里推出了皮肤市场之类的，我觉得他们显然已经做得很好了。

And I think if you look at Valve and, you know, the way they just said you have a marketplace of skins and stuff like that in Counter Strike, I think they've kinda nailed it obviously already.

而且我觉得，要真正建立一个市场，还需要像衰减这样的概念。

And I think it's just that to create a real marketplace there, you need also these concepts like decay.

对吧？

Right?

比如你在《反恐精英》里买了一把皮肤，用的时候价值会慢慢降低，直到归零。

Like, if you buy a a skin on Counter Strike, like, and you use it, the value will go down the more you use it until it hits zero.

这就相当于销毁代币一样。

And therefore, it creates you know, therefore, like, it's like burning tokens.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得这类机制可能还没被充分挖掘出来，但我想，只要有人搞出跨游戏的通用货币，迟早会有人做成这件事的。

It's like and and so I think concepts like that maybe haven't haven't been used and figured out, but I think, you know, having, a cross game currency, I think someone will end up doing it.

比特币还是以太坊？

Bitcoin or Ethereum?

如果只能选一个的话。

If you could only choose one.

比特币。

Bitcoin.

比特币。

Bitcoin.

不构成任何投资建议。

No financial advice.

对。

Yeah.

虽然不算投资建议，但我对此完全没有犹豫。

Not financial advice, but also not a single hesitation in that.

最后一个问题，我知道我们之前其实聊过不少关于未来面向公众发展的话题，但就路线图而言，还有没有其他我们没怎么深入讨论的内容？

And then last question, I know we've kinda already talked about, you know, so many things that are headed, in the future for public, but, just the road map, any other thing that we haven't really discussed?

显然还有市场，提升代理交易能力，以及更多的加密货币功能。

Obviously, marketplace, improving agentic trading, more crypto capabilities.

那还剩下什么呢？

What's left?

你知道的，是什么让你每天醒来都充满动力，心想着‘哎呀，太棒了’。

What you know, what gets you up in the day that you're like, oh, man.

我们得赶紧把这事儿搞定。

We gotta go finish this.

我们得开始做这件事了。

We gotta go start this.

路线图上有哪些内容？

What's on the road map?

我觉得我们的路线图足以让我们忙上十年。

I think we have a road map that is literally will keep us busy for the next decade.

这就是这个行业的美妙之处，我们不缺想法。

So that is the the beauty in this business that we're not lacking ideas.

我们只是缺时间和资源，没法以最快的速度完成所有事情。

We're just lacking time and, you know, resources to get them done as fast as humanly possible.

太好了。

Beautiful.

Leif Abraham，Public.com的联席CEO兼联合创始人。

Leif Abraham, co CEO, cofounder of public.com.

非常感谢你加入我们，各位。

Thank you so much for joining us, everybody.

看看节目说明。

Check the show notes.

我们会在里面放一些链接给你们。

We'll have some links in there for you guys.

其实很简单。

But it's easy.

去 public.com 注册一个账户，告诉他们你是从 Crypto 101 播客来的，希望我们能在平台上见到你们。

Go to public.com, sign up for an account, let them know you came from Crypto one zero one podcast, And, hopefully, we'll see you guys on the platform and life.

一定要再来啊。

Please do come back.

别跟我们见外。

Don't make yourself a stranger.

我们很欢迎你回来。

We'd love to have you back.

不管是三个月后还是一年后，跟我们分享更多进展。

Whether it's in a quarter or in a year, tell us some more updates.

我们想随时了解你的最新动态。

We wanna just keep tabs on everything you got going on.

太棒了。

Awesome.

谢谢大家。

Thanks, guys.

太棒了。

Awesome.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

大家保重。

Take care, everybody.