第751集：将股票市场带上链，确保合规

你知道当你翻衣柜找衣服的时候，总有一些衣服是你反复拿起来穿的。

You know when you look in your closet for clothes, we always have those pieces that you keep grabbing for and wearing on repeat.

那件百搭的毛衣，那条完美的裤子，或者那件你总是第一个拿起的T恤。

The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, or that tee you somehow always reach for first.

这些衣服让穿衣服变得简单，而这正是Quince最擅长的。

Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy and that's what Quince does best.

Quince专注于高品质的基础款服饰，采用优质材料，比如100%蒙古羊绒、有机棉和美利奴羊毛。

Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool.

这些款式经典、百搭，设计成你每天都会依赖的可靠单品。

The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become dependable pieces you reach for every day.

各位，夏天结束了，秋天马上就到了，秋天是我最喜欢的穿衣季节，因为九月初天气还暖和的时候，你还能穿那些轻薄、透气、合身的T恤和轻便的裤子，但天气开始转凉，你需要毛衣，需要提升你的穿搭，重新整理衣柜，迎接深秋和初冬。

Guys, summer is over and fall is right around the corner, and it's my favorite time of year for clothes in the fall because you still get some of that light, breathable, fitted tees and light pants that you want to wear when it's early September and still warm, but it starts to transition into that colder weather where you're going need some sweaters, you're going need to up your game and reorganize your closet as we transition into the late fall early winter.

Quince是你买衣服的首选之地。

Quince is your place to go for all things clothes.

我喜欢他们的亚麻制品。

I love their linens.

我们整个夏天都在聊这个。

We talked about it all summer.

整个夏天在希腊都是TiVo的亚麻布，但现在进入秋天，我们可能要找一些T恤和裤子，然后等天气一转，我北上过圣诞假期的时候，肯定会买他们家的100%蒙古羊绒毛衣，我特别喜欢。

It was TiVo linens out in Greece all summer long, but now as we head into the fall, we're looking for maybe some more T shirts, some pants, and then again, once the weather turns and I go up north for the Christmas holiday season, I'll definitely be doing their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters that I love so very much.

朋友们，Quince真的很棒。

Guys, Quince is amazing.

他们的网站也特别好用。

The website is awesome.

我之前也提过。

I've talked about it before.

他们不只是卖衣服。

It's not just clothing.

Quince把同样的理念用在他们做的所有东西上，从酒店品质的床品和卫浴，到厨房必需品，再到设计贴心的家具。

Quince brings the same approach to everything they make, From hotel quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials and thoughtfully designed furniture.

他们做的都是设计精良、适合日常生活的用品。

They make well designed pieces for everyday living.

我经常提到它。

I talk about all the time.

他们做每件事都很到位。

They do everything the right way.

在Quince找到你秋季的新宠吧。

Find your next fall favorites at Quince.

下载Quince应用获取专属优惠，或者访问quince.com/crypto10one。

Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com/crypto10one.

享受免费配送和365天退货服务，现在加拿大和英国也有哦。

Get free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada and The UK too.

网址是quince.com/crypto10one。

That's quince.com/crypto10one.

好了，各位。

Alright, everybody.

欢迎回到Out East峰会。

Welcome back to the Out East Summit.

今天和我一起的是Fairmint的首席执行官兼联合创始人Joris Delanoue。

I'm here with the CEO and cofounder of Fairmint, Joris Delanoue.

Joris，感谢你加入我们。

Joris, thank you for joining us.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你在这个峰会上玩得开心吗？

You've been enjoying the summit?

当然。

Absolutely.

和去年一样，我们很荣幸赞助了鸡尾酒会Wonderful。

Like last year, we are a proud sponsor of the cocktail Wonderful.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这是一个很棒的活动，大家可以在这里结识新朋友，进行愉快的交流。

And I think it's a fantastic event for people to make new connection, to have great conversation.

对。

Yeah.

而且，是的，在峰会开幕前一天晚上赞助第一场活动，一直都很适合破冰。

And yeah, sponsoring the first evening before kickoff of the summit the day after is always, it was good for ice breaking.

当然，当然。

For sure, for sure.

你看，我们真的很高兴你能来，因为你在代币化方面是专家。

Look, we're really excited to have you because you are an expert when it comes to all things tokenization.

是的。

Yeah.

在我们聊过的差不多15次对话里，代币化一直是年度热词。

Tokenization has been in the 15 or so conversations we've had the word of the year.

感觉你所在的领域很热门。

It feels like, so you're in a hot sector.

是的。

Yeah.

但在我们深入探讨代币化的特别之处之前，我想先了解一下你这个人，以及你在创建Fairmint之前都在做什么。

But before we get into what makes tokenization special and all that, I want to know a little bit about who you are and what you were doing before you were building Fairmint.

然后我们再聊Fairmint。

And then we'll get into Fairmint.

好的。

Sure.

我在欧洲创业已经有二十年了。

So I've been an entrepreneur since twenty years now in Europe.

来美国之前，我在法国。

Was in France before to come to The US.

在退出之前的公司之前，我主要做云计算，做了好几年。

And I've been working in mostly cloud computing for several years before I exited my former business.

在我所有的经历中，最关键的一点是，资本形成极其困难，要让人们轻松进入股东名单也极其困难。

And what was absolutely key in all my experience there was it is extremely hard to do capital formation and extremely hard to easily bring people to the cap table.

是的。

Yeah.

不管是员工还是合作伙伴。

Whether they are an employee or partner.

而现实是，如果不简化这个过程，就很难想象我们能更快地IPO，更快地为早期支持者带来流动性。

And the reality is if you don't ease that, it's extremely hard to imagine a world where we can IPO faster, where we can bring liquidity to the early supporters faster.

这也是我认为如今市场有点停滞的原因之一。

And this is one of the reasons why I think today the market is a bit blocked.

代币化只是一种促进事情的方式，明白吗？

Tokenization is just like a way of facilitating things, okay?

所以我一直跟人说，代币化越来越像一种商品。

And that's why I keep saying to people, tokenization is more and more a commodity.

它以前当然非常复杂。

It was obviously super complex.

你知道，十年前你是个智能合约开发者。

You know ten years ago you were a smart contract dev.

你是极少数幸运儿中的一员。

You were part of the very happy few.

那时候，不管你是自由职业者还是员工，都能赚很多钱，因为当时没人懂智能合约。

You were able to charge a lot of money whether as a freelancer or as an employee because no one knew about smart contract at that time.

如今这个时代，人多了很多，在这个生态圈里干了十年，让一切变得更容易接触了。

Today at the age of era, we have a lot more people, ten years building in this ecosystem makes it more accessible.

所以我来到美国，就是想利用我多年创业的经验，作为投资者去发现问题，然后打造一些在发行股权证券时更有意义的东西，因为我们在Fairmint做的是股权资本市场。

So what I did by coming to The States is really like use what I had as an entrepreneur for years, identify the problem also as an investor and building something that would make more sense when it comes to issue equity securities, because we are in the equity capital market at Fairmint.

对，我觉得当我联合创始人让我接触区块链时，我就想，哦，这让我想起了云计算刚起步的时候。

And yeah, I think when my co founder exposed me to blockchain, I was like, oh, that reminds me a lot of like the cloud computing in the Breakthrough.

这项新技术会彻底改变我们做事的方式。

And this new technology that will drastically change the way we are operating things.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得我们终于看清了区块链的本质。

And I think finally we are seeing the blockchain for what it is.

这真的很令人兴奋。

That's very exciting.

太棒了。

Love it.

那给我们讲讲Fairmint吧。

And so walk us through Fairmint.

我想全面了解一下你们在做什么，为谁做，以及你们的使命是什么？

I kind of want to get a full holistic view of what it is that you're building, who you're building for, and what's your mission?

是的，在Fairmint，我们正在构建链上股权资本市场的基础设施。

Yeah, at Fairmint we are building the on chain equity capital markets stack.

好的。

Okay.

我们作为美国证券交易委员会注册的过户代理人运营，但我们的运营方式完全在链上。

We operate as a transfer agent registered to the SEC, but we operate in a way that is fully on chain.

这意味着我们确实把区块链作为唯一的事实来源，但同时承担着六十年前TCC成立时建立的中间人的责任和担保，那时过户代理人成为了行业的支柱。

Which means that we literally use the blockchain as the unique source of truth, but with the guarantee of and the liability of the intermediary that were built like sixty years ago, when the TCC started and the transfer agent became this backbone of the industry.

所以我们的使命非常简单。

And so our mission is very simple.

一旦你在链上原生发行了真正的股票，你就可以把它连接到过去十年里为DeFi构建的所有智能合约上，让这些资产更具流动性，可以用作抵押品，也可以改变这些资产的治理方式。

Once you have real share natively issued on chain, you can connect that to all the DeFi smart contracts that were built for ten years to make those assets more liquid, to be used as collateral, to also change the way governance of those assets can work.

而且你提供了大家在2026年所期望的那种实时性。

And you offer the liveness that everyone expects in 2026.

那种大家在加密货币市场中已经体验到的实时性，但在股票证券领域还没有完全实现。

That everyone experiments in the crypto markets, but that is not yet fully live for equity securities.

对。

Yeah.

这就是我们在Fairmint一直在做的事情。

This is what we've been at Fairmint.

说白了，我们的使命就是让股票在链上流动起来。

Like literally, our mission is to make equity move on chain.

那这些股票是公开市场的股票，还是私募股权，还是两者都有？

And is that equity that's public equity or private equity or both?

两者都有。

That's both.

主要是因为技术正在彻底模糊这两个世界之间的界限。

Mostly because the technology is completely coming to blur the line between the two worlds.

好的。

Okay.

如果你能进行资本形成，如果你能进行交易，不管公司是私营还是上市，唯一的区别就在于合规要求和标准。

If you are able to do capital formation, if you are able to transact, whether the company is private or public, only difference will be on the compliance, will be on the criteria.

比如，如果你是上市公司，就需要更多的信息披露。

Like you need more disclosure if you are public.

但同时，你可以有无限多的人出现在股东名册上。

But at the same time, you have an unlimited number of people that can be sitting on the cap table.

对。

Right.

但如果你是私营公司，披露要求少一些，但你需要监控股东名册上的席位数量。

But if you are private, have less disclosure but you need to monitor the number of seats on your capital.

所以这只是一个例子，但现实是，现在谁还在乎这些呢？

So that's a kind of example, but the reality is, who cares now?

如果你能让发行方接触到一种分销渠道，让他们能获得资金，让他们的股东能获得流动性，或者有机会把股票变成抵押品。

If you are able to offer to an issuer an access to a distribution where he can get capital, where his shareholders can get some liquidity or can get an opportunity to turn the shares into collateral.

我的意思是，人们不会在乎公司是私营还是上市。

I mean, people won't care if the company is private or public.

这就是代币化作为工具非常有趣的地方，因为它有助于模糊这条界限。

This is where the tokenization as a tooling is very interesting because it helps blurring the lot.

对。

Yeah.

六十年前，我们整个行业决定让公开市场变得超级稳健、可靠和值得信赖，但在私营领域却什么都没做。

Sixty years ago we decided as an industry to make the public market super robust, super reliable and trustable, but nothing was done on the private side.

没错。

Right.

直到我们开始看到很多大公司留下来。

Until we started to have a lot of big companies stay Yeah.

然后你会说，好吧，各位，你们会在Fairmint上看到雷诺和Excel。

And you were like, okay guys, you will see Renault and Excel on Fairmint.

对。

Yeah.

你可以叫它Carta，也可以叫它律师事务所。

You can call it Carta, you can call it a law firm.

对，像ComputerShare那样的。

Yeah, a computer share.

那是针对公开市场的。

That's for public.

对。

Yeah.

但私募这边还是老一套的做法。

But the private side is still very antiquity way.

哦，原来如此。

Oh, okay.

我们带来的正是过户代理服务，来服务那些决定使用它的发行方。

And we are bringing precisely the transfer agency to hold the issuers that decide to use it.

对。

Yeah.

所以你的股权结构表可以随时准备上市，不是因为你正在上市，而是因为你是一家发行公司。

So that your cap table can be IPO ready not because you are IPO ing, but because you are an issuer.

对。

Yeah.

你知道什么最拖慢团队进度吗？

You know what slows teams down more than anything?

往往不是人员预算，甚至不是工具本身。

It's not always the headcount budget or even the tools themselves.

而是工作方式只存在于某个人脑子里，从来没有真正被记录下来。

It's when the way work gets done lives in someone's head and never actually gets documented.

然后新人加入、新平台上线，或者有同事离开，突然大家做同一个流程的方式都不一样了。

Then someone new joins, a new platform gets rolled out, or a teammate leaves, and suddenly everybody's doing the same process in a different way.

这正是今天的赞助商 Scribe 要解决的问题。

That's exactly the problem today's sponsor, Scribe, was built to solve.

Scribe 是一个工作流 AI 平台，财富 500 强中有 94% 的公司都在使用它。

Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500.

它能实时捕捉工作流程，并将其转化为一步一步的文档，方便团队审阅和分享。

It captures workflows as they happen and turns them into step by step documentation your team can review and share.

你只需要像平时一样操作，Scribe 就会边做边生成指南，自动记录每一次点击、每一步操作和每个截图。

You just do the process like you normally would and Scribe builds the guide as you go, capturing every click, step, and screenshot automatically.

由于我们的团队是远程办公，我确实遇到过不止一次需要向同事解释同样的设置或流程的情况，而且总觉得这些应该在第一次时就记录下来。

With our team being remote, I have definitely had moments where I've had to explain the same setup or process more than once to a colleague, and it always feels like something that should have been documented the first time.

有了 Scribe，原本可能需要花几个小时来编写和整理的内容，不到一分钟就能准备好分享。

With Scribe, what could take hours of writing and cleanup can be ready to share in under a minute.

Scribe 还会自动从截图中隐去敏感信息，比如姓名和账号。

Scribe also automatically redacts sensitive information like names, and account numbers from screenshots.

管理员可以在整个团队中强制执行这一设置，确保没有任何遗漏。

Admins can enforce that across the team so nothing slips through the cracks.

此外，任何按照流程操作的人都能获得实时的屏幕指导，准确显示在真实工具中应该点击哪里。

Plus, anyone following the process can get real time on screen guidance showing exactly where to click inside the actual tool.

Scribe 不只是记录工作流程，它还会用 AI 来建议如何改进，帮你发现多余的步骤，找到简化或自动化的机会。

Scribe doesn't just document workflows, it uses AI to suggest ways to improve them, helping you spot redundant steps and opportunities to simplify or automate.

想看看 Scribe 在你的团队里能是什么样子，就去 scribe.how/crypto101，提到 crypto101，就能在特定套餐上免费使用 Scribe Capture 第一个月。

To see what Scribe could look like for your org, head to scribe.how/crypto101 and mention crypto101 for your first month of scribe capture free on select plans.

网址是 scribe，scribe.how/crypto10one。

That's scribe, scribe.how/crypto10one.

不知道你怎么样，反正我经常一不留神就到饭点了。

I don't know about you, but dinner sneaks up on me all the time.

打开冰箱才发现，肉都没准备好。

I'll open the fridge and realize I have no protein ready.

这时候我可不想跑去超市，临时买一趟，还得赌店里还剩什么肉或者汉堡。

And at that point, I'm not trying to go to the store, make a last minute grocery run, and gamble on whatever meats or burgers are left at the store.

所以 Omaha Steaks 真是个囤在冰箱里的好选择。

That's why Omaha Steaks is a great freezer move.

就像家里有个信得过的肉铺，需要的时候随时有好肉。

It's like having a trusted butcher at home and quality protein when you need it the most.

奥马哈牛排用一百多年的时间赢得了这个名声。

Omaha Steaks has earned its reputation with over a hundred years.

这是全美厨房都信赖的牛肉，直接送到你家门口。

It's the same beef trusted in kitchens across the country, shipped straight to your door.

牛排馆的品质，却没有牛排馆的价格。

Steakhouse quality without the steakhouse prices.

你的家人会以为这顿饭花了好几个小时，其实并没有。

Your family will think dinner took hours, but it didn't.

只要几分钟。

Just minutes.

如果你还没试过，汉堡完美套餐是绝佳的起点。

And if you never tried them, the burger perfection flight is the perfect place to start.

你会得到20个优质牛排汉堡，用的是五种不同的牛排部位。

You get 20 premium steak burgers made from five different cuts of steak.

四个菲力牛排汉堡，四个纽约客牛排汉堡，四个肋眼牛排汉堡，四个牛胸肉汉堡，还有四个西冷牛排汉堡。

Four filet mignon burgers, four New York strip burgers, four rib eye burgers, four brisket burgers, and four sirloin burgers.

各位，这就是汉堡界的山寨币拼盘。

Guys, this is the altcoin basket of burgers right here.

如果我和布莱恩在节目里，我们肯定会把这些分一分，每人出50块5毛，因为你知道我们夏天多喜欢烧烤。

If me and Brian were on the rundown, we would be divvying these up $50.50 because you know how we like to grill in the summer.

所以你不只是拿到一盒汉堡，你还能尝到不同的风味、不同的口感，还有真正的牛排馆级别的多样性，可以放在烤架上烤，或者工作日快速做来吃。

So So you're not just getting a box of burgers, you're getting different flavor profiles, different textures, and real steakhouse style variety you can throw on the grill or cook up fast during the week.

今天就上omahasteaks.com试试这个汉堡完美拼盘吧。

Try the burger perfection flight at omahasteaks.com today.

20个优质牛排汉堡只要79.99美元，再用优惠码beef还能再减35美元。

That's 20 premium steak burgers for just $79.99, plus get $35 off with the promo code beef.

就是omahasteaks.com，结账时输入优惠码beef，立减35美元。

That's omahasteaks.com promo code beef for $35 off at checkout.

条款适用。

Terms apply.

详情请见网站。

See site for details.

现在大家都在聊AI，但真正重要的AI是那种能帮你省时间、帮你做更明智的决定、还能减轻你工作负担的AI。

Everybody is talking about AI right now, but the AI that actually matters is the kind that saves you time, helps you make smarter decisions, and takes work off your plate.

如果你在经营电商生意，物流就是那种要么让你顺利推进，要么让你完全卡住的事情。

And if you're running an e commerce business, shipping is one of those things that can either keep you moving or completely slow you down.

所以我喜欢ShipStation。

That's why I like ShipStation.

它是一个为电商企业打造的端到端订单履行平台，它的AI基于全球数十亿次发货的几十年真实物流数据训练而成。

It's an end to end order fulfillment platform built for ecommerce businesses, and its AI is trained on decades of real shipping data from billions of shipments across the world.

所以，不用再手忙脚乱地管理一堆不同的工具，ShipStation能帮你掌控全局。

So instead of juggling a bunch of different tools, ShipStation helps you stay in control.

它能在库存不足时提醒你，推荐最佳承运商和费率，自动化任务，帮你在增长过程中节省时间。

It can alert you when your stock is low, recommend the best carrier selections and rates, automate tasks, help you save time as you grow.

你还能获得跨销售渠道的库存同步、自动比价、品牌退货门户，以及会计和CRM软件的集成，所有这些都在一个地方。

You also get inventory syncing across sales channels, automatic rate shopping, a branded returns portal, and integrations with accounting and CRM software all in one place.

如果我在经营电商店铺，这正是我想要的那种工具。

If I were running an e commerce store, this is exactly the kind of tool I'd want.

因为一旦订单开始进来，你肯定不希望物流成为拖后腿的那一环。

Because once the orders start coming in, you don't want shipping to be the thing that's holding you back.

超过一百万家商家已经信赖ShipStation来优化和扩展他们的物流。

Over 1,000,000 businesses have trusted ShipStation to optimize and scale their shipping.

你越早切换，就能越早开始节省时间和金钱。

The sooner you switch, the sooner you start saving time and money.

今天就注册ShipStation，在shipstation.com输入优惠码crypto，即可免费使用六十天。

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网址是shipstation.com。

That's shipstation.com.

优惠码是crypto。

Code crypto.

Shipstation.com，优惠码crypto。

Shipstation.com, code crypto.

税费和手续费另计。

Taxes and fees apply.

我很好奇，比如，对于那些正在收听的人来说，他们可能没有在经营初创公司，也可能不是私营公司的一员，但他们想投资这些非公开的机会。

I'm curious, like, for for those people who are listening, who they might not be running a startup, they might not be part of a private company, but they're trying to invest in these private opportunities.

最近有个大新闻，当时几乎所有人都以为自己持有Anthropic的股份。

There was a big story recently when everybody and their brother was thinking they were owning anthropic shares.

然后突然Anthropic出来说，这些股份被清零了。

And then all of a sudden anthropic came and said, are zeroed out.

有一堆公司。

There's a bunch of companies.

我不想点名，它们在做这些SPV。

I don't want to name them that were doing these SPVs.

所以我想先了解一下，那种模式到底哪里出了问题。

And so I want to understand first what went wrong with that model.

其次，你们的模式如何让普通人也能接触到早期的私营公司？

And secondly, how does your model enable the everyday person to get access to early stage private companies?

首先，我觉得我们不应该过分贬低已经建立起来的东西。

So first of all, I don't think we should trash too much what has been built.

因为那些发展势头很好但一直保持私有的公司，确实是个问题。

Because the problem of having companies with a lot of traction but that remain private was an issue.

对。

Okay.

对吧？

Okay?

第二，全球范围内，很多人都想分一杯美国公司的财务增长红利。

Two, there is a huge demand around the world to get a fraction of the financial upside of US entities.

不管是私有还是上市。

Private or public.

所以我们看到的，其实就是对这两个问题的回应。

So all we saw is just an answer to these two problems.

一个是巨大的需求，另一个是公司私有化的时间更长了。

A big demand and the companies that stay private longer.

话虽如此，最关键的是你买的到底是什么。

That being said, what's very important is what are you purchasing?

我想把这个和所有代币联系起来，我理解你的狂热。

And I'd like to connect that to all the token and I see your craze.

对。

Yeah.

或者我可以谈谈

Or I could talk about the

你能获得投票权吗？

Are you getting the voting rights?

你能获得分红吗？

Are you getting the dividends?

你能

Are you

获得法律权益吗？

getting the legal?

问题是，你买的是什么？

The question is, what are you buying?

那你知道你买的是什么吗？

And do you know what you are buying?

对。

Right.

所以，不幸的是，“代币”这个词被广泛用来指代加密货币。

So, unfortunately the term token was used extensively to qualify a cryptocurrency.

你背后的加密货币是靠信任来支撑的。

The cryptocurrency behind you back it with trust.

无论你是信任团队、信任项目、信任技术，还是什么都不信，那样的话它就会失败。

Whether you trust the team, you trust the project, you trust the tech, or you trust nothing and in that case it fails.

是的。

Yeah.

但当你开始谈论一家公司时，你立刻会想到股权。

But when you start to talk about a company, you immediately think as equity.

所以你会觉得自己是股东。

So you think that you're an equity holder.

这就是中介机构开始发行代币化版本的地方，这些代币代表的是股权在SPV第一层、第二层、第三层中的财务收益。

This is where intermediaries that start issuing token version of a financial upside of an equity parked in a SPV layer one, two, three.

如果这一点非常清楚，并且你向购买者解释清楚了，那就没问题。

If it's very clear and you explain that to the person that is purchasing, that's fine.

问题在于他们没有说明这一点。

The problem was they didn't say it.

如果你……或者他们把它藏在非常非常非常小的字里行间。

If you are Or they cloaked it in the very very very fine print.

或者如果你试图在未经董事会授权的情况下进行二级交易，就像Entropic的情况那样，那么你就要承担所谓的优先购买权的风险，即董事会可以说‘不，我不转让那个资产’。

Or if you are trying to do secondaries without the authorization of the board, which was the case for Entropic, then you take the risk of what's called the right of first refusal, where the Board can say no, I don't transfer that asset.

所以这就是我们需要在某个时候，让那些关注实际传递内容的人出现的地方。

So this is where we need to, at one point, have people that are paying attention to what is effectively transmitted.

底层资产是什么？

What is the underlying asset?

这个资产是流动的还是非流动的？

Is an asset that is liquid or illiquid?

如果资产是非流动性的，转让该资产的权利是什么？

If it's illiquid, what are the rights of transferring that asset?

对。

Yeah.

如果你能通过让懂行的人来处理这件事，那你就不会承担任何风险。

If you are able to do that properly by just letting people who know about this, dealing with that, I mean you don't take any risk.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得Entropeak只是在传递一个信号，就是停。

I think Entropeak was just sending a message like stop.

别再来搞我们的股权结构了。

Stop fucking with our cap table.

对，因为对他们来说主要问题是

Yeah because the main issue for them

而且他们很快就要上市了，所以他们想保护一切，而且

And they're gonna go public soon, so they wanted to protect everything and

而且这也是因为法律规定，私人公司的股东人数不能超过某个上限，否则就会触发所谓的“三阶段门槛”。基本上，你的股东名册上可以有大约500名非合格投资者，或者2000名股东。

Well it's also because by law you cannot have more than x shareholder as a private company without triggering what's called a trilogy threshold, and you can have like basically 500 non accredited or 2,000 shareholders on your cap table.

哦，这样啊。

Oh, okay.

但如果有人开始出售股票并将其分割，公司最终可能会遇到他们不想要的人，或者股东人数过多。

But if someone is starting to sell and fractionalize the shares, like the company might end up with people that they don't want or too many people.

对。

Yeah.

这是第一个问题。

That was the first problem.

第二个问题是，如果他们不再能控制自己的估值，这些公司往往依赖期权来吸引人才。

The second one is, if they don't control anymore their valuation, those companies are easily relying on options to onboard talent.

对。

Yeah.

所以如果你开始对员工说，嘿，我会给你期权，让你以最近一轮市场价值的10%来行使，但实际上有人以20%的价格在出售。

So if you start to say to your employees, hey I'm gonna give you options to exercise at 10% of the current market value the last round, but actually you have people that are selling at 20.

你这是在彻底搞砸整个公司的估值。

You are literally fucking the whole valuation of the business.

所以这就是董事会非常谨慎的原因。

So those are the reasons why the Board are very protective.

有意思。

Interesting.

但我们可以找到解决办法。

But we can come with a solution to it.

一旦我们理解了这个问题，比如Stripe几年前通过大规模融资解决了这个问题，让所有持股的员工退出，他们的期权计划也到期了。

The moment that we understand that problem, that for example Stripe solved by raising a massive round a few years ago, to exit all their shareholders that were employees, that had their option plan that were coming to a term.

Gusto去年也这么做了。

Gusto did it last year as well.

这确实是个需要解决的问题。

This real is problem to fix.

我们怎么提供流动性？

How do we bring liquidity?

那么，我们就来简化资本形成吧。

Well, let's ease capital formation.

我们要确保董事会能轻松地设置好控制机制，这样一切都会顺利。

Let's make sure that the Board has an easy way of setting things up for them to control and in that case everything will be smooth.

然后，让上市变得容易。

And then let's make it easy to IPO.

比如现在最大的风险之一就是信息披露、合规，以及那些让上市变得极其昂贵的中介环节。

Like today one of the biggest risks is disclosures, is compliance, is the full intermediation that makes an IPO extremely expensive.

对。

Yeah.

你在华尔街做路演，你会给一些

You do a road show in Wall Street, you will Some

投资银行。

give investment banks.

对，你会给大约20%。

Yeah, and you will give like 20%.

如果你做SPAC，你要给30%。

If you do a SPAC you will give 30%.

那相当贵。

That's pretty expensive.

你明白吗？

You see?

所以我们需要简化这个过程。

So we need to ease that.

代币化是让所有这些方式更顺畅的最佳工具之一。

Tokenization is one of the best tool to make all these ways smoother.

你觉得什么时候会实现？因为现在，你知道，我们一直在讨论的很多主题都是关于代币化、加密货币，对吧？

When do you think because right now, like, you know, a lot of the themes of the conversation we've been having are, you know, tokenization is this and Crypto, right?

这是一个非常非常大的概念，但可能还有点遥远。

It's a really, really big concept, but maybe it's a little further out of the money.

人们，科技投资者现在都专注于人工智能。

People are folk tech investors are focused on AI right now.

他们关注的是眼前正在发生的事情。

They're focused on things that are right here right now.

你觉得代币化和加密货币什么时候会重新成为焦点，再次成为热门话题？

When is it that tokenization and crypto is gonna come back, gonna be the bell of the ball again?

我们会获得这些高估值。

We'll command these high valuations.

你觉得是五年以后的事吗？

Do you think it's five years down the line?

你觉得会更近一些吗？

Do you think it's closer than that?

我们现在处于什么阶段？

Where are we at?

我们现在所处的阶段已经令人难以置信了。

So where we are right now is already unbelievable.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

你想想，还记得NFT热潮和模因币吗？

If you think, like remember the NFT craze, the meme coin?

对。

Yeah.

所有权经济，还有Polarc和Bays的那些理论。

The ownership economy, all the thesis of Polarc with Bays.

是的。

Yep.

有一段时间，做证券几乎是不可能的。

Like at one point it was almost impossible to exist doing securities.

对。

Yeah.

这种转变已经非常巨大了。

The shift is massive already.

对。

Yeah.

但这可能还需要五到十年的时间。

But it's still probably a five to ten years move.

对。

Yeah.

这需要时间，但你知道，当你是一家大银行，当你所有的资产和行业都运行在AWS和云上时，是的。

It will take time but you know, when you are a big bank, when all your assets and industry run on AWS and cloud, Yep.

谷歌，我是说从那里迁移到区块链是一个非常大的动作。

Google, I mean moving from there to a blockchain is a very big move.

对。

Yeah.

而且你面对的是一个过去六十年都在降低风险的行业。

And you are facing an industry that spent the last sixty years alleviating risk.

确保一切万无一失。

Making sure that everything is rock solid.

然后你告诉他们，哦，你知道吗，去他妈的这些。

And you tell them, oh you know what, fuck all that.

就相信我们这些做智能合约的小开发者，还有DJ和风格。

Just trust us the small dev that do smart contract, DJ and style.

嗯，他们其实已经观察了好几个月了。

Well, they have been observing everything for months.

对。

Yeah.

好几年了。

For years.

当他们准备好按下按钮的时候，那是因为他们确保整合这项新技术不会有任何风险。

When they are ready to press the button, that's because they made sure that there will be no risk integrating this new piece of technology.

我觉得我们还在这个过程中。

I think we are still in the process of that.

可能还要几年，但看看DCC这周宣布的事情。

It's probably a couple of years, but look at the DCC and what they announced this week.

那真是个大新闻。

That was huge.

对，他们就像是从一个非常移动的大型机时代直接跳到代币时代。

Yeah, and they are just like moving from a very mobile mainframe era to immediately tokens.

是的。

Yeah.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

你觉得你们的收购策略会怎么演变？

Do you foresee, like, your acquisition strategy evolving?

你们是不是直接去找私营公司说，嘿，让我们看看你们的股权结构，看看我们能怎么帮你们？

Are you guys going directly to private companies and saying, hey, let's take a look at your cap table, how we can help you?

你们扩大客户群的策略是什么？

What's kind of the strategy to grow your customer base?

所以，现在我们观察到非常明显的一点是，私营和公共两方面的需求都存在。

So the, right now what we observe that is very obvious is the need from both sides, private and public.

规模更大的发行方来找我们，说，我们想要一种更好的过户代理形式。

Issuers that are bigger are coming to us saying, we want a better form of transfer agency.

我们希望确保我们发行的任何东西，都是以一种能让我们连接到外包商、连接到所有流动性池的方式进行的，但不是国家交易所，这不是我们提供的。

We want to make sure that whatever we originate, whatever we issue is done in a way that allow us to be connected to outsourcers, to all the pool of liquidity but not the national exchange, this is not what we offer them.

对。

Right.

对于过去十年建立的所有分销渠道。

For all the distribution that were built for the last ten years.

你说的是Scribe吗？

You talking of Scribe?

Scribe交易所？

Scribe exchange?

不，是的，我说的是任何分销渠道，无论是DeFi、中心化，还是整个传统系统。

No, yeah, I'm talking of any district, whether it's DeFi, centralized, whole legacy systems.

现在他们最关心的是，我们能否在股票世界里以一种可互操作的方式来处理证券？

Right now the main thing for them is can we rely on an interoperable way of dealing with securities in equity world?

再说一次，我们非常专注于股票资本市场。

Once again we are very focused on the equity capital markets.

但是一旦你给他们提供和Carta完全一样的资产，只不过是在自己的链上，他们就能接入所有传统交易所、所有传统参与者和新的分销渠道。

But the moment that you feed them with the exact same asset as they would get from Carta, except its own chain, and because of that they can plug to all the traditional exchanges, all the traditional actors and the new distribution.

对。

Right.

你

You

已经在解决发行方最大的痛点之一了。

are already solving one of the biggest pain of the issuers.

太棒

Love

了。

it.

这就是我们目前的状况。

This is where we are right now.

这就是为什么我们看到上市公司来找我们，说，嘿，我们只是想要一个更好的用户体验。

This is why we see publicly listed entities coming to us saying, hey, we just want a better user experience for ourselves.

显然，这个行业并没有提供这样的体验。

Clearly the industry is not offering that.

而且很有趣，这周有一位纳斯达克上市公司的首席财务官给我打了个比方。

And it's very funny, had an analogy offered to me this week from a CFO of a NASDAQ listed co.

他告诉我，你看，六十年前建立的那套系统，包括TCC和经纪商等等，就像华盛顿大桥一样。

He was telling me, look, all the system that was built sixty years ago with the TCC and broker dealers and all, is like the Washington Bridge.

而建立在它之上的代币化平台，基本上就是在华盛顿大桥上新建的桥面。

The tokenization platform that come on top of that, they are basically the new deck that they build on the Washington Bridge.

覆盖在上面。

Over it.

但桥还是那座桥。

But it's still the same bridge.

对。

Yeah.

你们是在旁边另起炉灶。

You guys are building on the side.

这并不意味着你们会取代华盛顿大桥，只是现在多了一条路。

Doesn't mean that you will kill the Washington rig, it just means that now you have another pile.

对。

Yeah.

而且可以预期的是，这条路可能更便宜、更快、更容易打交道，而且可能会吸引新一代的发行方，他们更懂互联网、Web 2.0、Web 3.0。

And what you can expect from that is probably cheaper, faster, easier to deal with, And it might answer to a new class of issuer that are more like internet, web two, web three savvy.

对。

Yeah.

这些人，比如用亚马逊 Prime 的，或者用特斯拉 App 买车的。

And all these guys that are, yeah, using Amazon Prime or that buy a car with the app on Tesla.

对。

Yeah.

他们也希望用同样的方式来处理他们的过户代理事务。

They would like to deal with their transfer agency the same way.

对。

Yeah.

我完全同意，而且我对你正在构建的未来感到非常兴奋。

I absolutely agree and I'm excited for the future that you're building.

人们在哪里可以了解更多关于 Fairmint 的信息？

Where can people find out more about Fairmint?

显然，你们的网站，但你们在 LinkedIn 上写博客吗？

Obviously, your website, but do you blog on LinkedIn?

你们在 X 上发帖吗？

Are you posting on X?

有哪些账号可以关注？

What handles can be subscribed Yeah.

所以，当然是 fairmint.com，但你们也可以在 LinkedIn 和 X 上联系我们。

So fairmint.com, obviously, but you can reach out on LinkedIn and X absolutely.

这两个是我们活跃的社交平台。

That's the two networks where we are.