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你知道当你翻衣柜找衣服的时候，总有那么几件是你一直拿起来穿、反复穿的衣服。
You know when you look in your closet for clothes, we always have those pieces that you keep grabbing for and wearing on repeat.
那件百搭的毛衣、那条完美的裤子，或者那件你总是第一个伸手去拿的T恤。
The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, or that tee you somehow always reach for first.
这些就是让穿衣变得轻松的单品，而这正是Quince最擅长的。
Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy and that's what Quince does best.
Quince专注于高品质的基础款服饰，采用优质材料，比如100%蒙古羊绒、有机棉和美利奴羊毛。
Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool.
这些款式经典、百搭，设计成你每天都会依赖的可靠单品。
The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become dependable pieces you reach for every day.
各位，夏天结束了，秋天马上就到了，而且秋天是我最喜欢的穿衣季节，因为九月初天气还暖和的时候，你还能穿那些轻薄、透气、合身的T恤和薄裤子，但随后天气开始转凉，你就需要毛衣了，需要提升一下你的穿搭，重新整理衣柜，迎接深秋和初冬。
Guys, summer is over and fall is right around the corner, and it's my favorite time of year for clothes in the fall because you still get some of that light, breathable, fitted tees and light pants that you want to wear when it's early September and still warm, but it starts to transition into that colder weather where you're going need some sweaters, you're going need to up your game and reorganize your closet as we transition into the late fall, early winter.
Quince是你买衣服的首选之地。
Quince is your place to go for all things clothes.
我喜欢他们的亚麻制品。
I love their linens.
我们整个夏天都在聊这个。
We talked about it all summer.
整个夏天在希腊都是TiVo的亚麻布，但现在进入秋天，我们可能想找一些T恤、裤子，然后等天气一转冷，我北上过圣诞假期的时候，肯定会买他们家的100%蒙古羊绒毛衣，我超级喜欢。
It was TiVo linens out in Greece all summer long, but now as we head into the fall, we're looking for maybe some more T shirts, some pants, and then again, once the weather turns and I go up north for the Christmas holiday season, I'll definitely be doing their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters that I love so very much.
朋友们，Quince真的很棒。
Guys, Quince is amazing.
他们的网站也特别好用。
The website is awesome.
我之前也提过。
I've talked about it before.
他们不只是卖衣服。
It's not just clothing.
Quince把同样的理念用在他们做的所有东西上，从酒店品质的床品和卫浴，到厨房必需品，再到设计用心的家具。
Quince brings the same approach to everything they make, From hotel quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials and thoughtfully designed furniture.
他们为日常生活打造设计精良的产品。
They make well designed pieces for everyday living.
我一直在说这个。
I talk about all the time.
他们做什么都做得很好。
They do everything the right way.
在Quince找到你秋季的最爱吧。
Find your next fall favorites at Quince.
下载Quince应用，享受专属优惠，或者访问quince.com/crypto10one。
Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com/crypto10one.
现在在加拿大和英国也能享受免费配送和365天退货服务。
Get free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada and The UK too.
网址是quince.com/crypto10one。
That's quince.com/crypto10one.
别再等待许可，开始你的生意吧。
Stop waiting for permission to start your business.
你的想法离实现只有一步之遥，Shopify能让你轻松实现。
Your idea is one step away, and Shopify can make it easy to make it happen.
我们就是这么做的，在Crypto one zero one用Shopify卖我们的书，剩下的就是历史了。
That's what we did at Crypto one zero one and use Shopify to sell our book, and the rest is history.
我喜欢Shopify的地方在于，它把创业中吓人的部分都去掉了。
The thing I like about Shopify is it takes the scary part out of starting.
你不用坐在那儿琢磨网站、支付、结账、库存这些小事，这些事常常让人还没开始就放弃了。
You're not just sitting there trying to figure out a website, payments, checkout, inventory, all these little things that stop people before they even launch.
说到建网店，我觉得最大的问题就是麻烦。
When I think about building a storefront, the biggest thing is friction.
你希望顾客一进你的页面，就喜欢上你卖的东西，然后能顺利买走，不卡壳。
You want someone to land on your page, like what you're selling, and be able to buy without getting stuck.
这就是Shopify厉害的地方。
That's where Shopify is huge.
Shopify的结账流程设计得能帮更多顾客完成购买，而且他们再来的时候，信息已经存好了。
Shopify checkout is built to help more customers finish their purchase, and when they come back, their details are already saved.
点一下，就搞定了。
One tap and they're done.
最棒的是，Shopify 支持全球数百万家企业，从你熟知的大品牌，比如美泰和Gymshark，到刚起步的小公司。
The cool part is Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from huge brands that you know, like Mattel and Gymshark to small businesses just getting started.
所以无论你是想打造下一个大品牌，还是推出你的第一个产品，基础设施都已经准备好了。
So whether you're building the next big brand or launching your first product, the infrastructure is already there.
一旦这部分搞定，你就可以专注于真正的工作：打造品牌、吸引关注、把人们带到你的店铺，让生意成长。
Once that part is handled, you can focus on the real work, building the brand, getting attention, and bringing people to your storefront so the business can grow.
当有人真正下单的那一刻，你的想法就变成了现实。
That moment when someone actually buys, that's when the idea becomes real.
有了Shopify，你的想法和真正的生意之间没有任何障碍，所以去实现它吧。
With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business, so go make it one.
今天就在shopify.com/crypto10one开始你的免费试用。
Start your free trial today at shopify.com/crypto10one.
这是shopify.com/crypto10one的免费试用。
That's a free trial at shopify.com/crypto10one.
好了，各位。
Alright, everybody.
欢迎回到Crypto 101播客。
Welcome back to the Crypto one zero one podcast.
我是你的联合主持人，总是和我的好哥们Brendan一起。
I'm your cohost, always joined by my good buddy, Brendan.
兄弟，你怎么样？
How are doing, man?
我很好。
I am doing great.
很高兴
Glad to
能在这里。
be here.
太棒了。
Awesome.
天哪，我太兴奋了。
Man, I am so excited.
今天我们请到了一位非常棒的嘉宾，他是我们的老朋友，也是常客，但现在因为他的市场观点、市场展望，以及一个重大消息——奥斯汀·巴拉克先生人生新篇章的宣布，而非常抢手。
We've got a great guest today, friend of the show, repeat guest, but somebody who is very in demand right now with his market views, market outlook, and a big announcement, of a new chapter in mister Austin Barack's life.
所以，奥斯汀现在是Rockaway X流动性机会基金的首席投资官，我们今天请他过来，就是要聊聊市场上的流动性机会，以及对今年剩余时间的展望。
So Austin, is now the CIO of the Rockaway X Liquid Opportunities Fund, and we're bringing him in today to talk about liquid opportunities in the market and outlook for the rest of the year.
那么，奥斯汀，你最近怎么样？
So Austin, how are you doing?
嘿，我挺好的。
Hey, Doing well.
嘿，是的，过去几个月真的非常非常有意思。
Hey, Yeah, it's been a very, very interesting last couple of months.
我相信我们之后会深入聊这个，但对我来说，市场已经触底，这看起来越来越明显了。
I'm sure we'll we'll talk about this more in-depth, but it's looking clear or increasingly clear to me that markets have bottomed.
所以，机会很多。
So so lots of opportunities.
完全同意。
Absolutely.
我想很多正在听的人都会想，哇。
I think a lot of people listening right there like, woah.
先别急。
Hold the phone.
把咖啡放下。
Put the coffee down.
把孩子送走。
Drop the kids off.
他刚才说了什么？
What did he just say?
市场底部已经正式确立了。
The market bottom is officially in.
你是怎么判断出来的？
How do you even think about determining that?
你怎么会认为这种可能性是合理的？
How do you kind of rationalize around that being a possibility?
所以，有几点要说。
So so a couple of things.
第一，今年早些时候我们已经看到一些迹象，坏消息并不一定会导致市场抛售，这意味着卖家已经疲惫，大多数短期持有者或潜在卖家已经退出市场。
One, we'd started to see evidence earlier in the year when bad news wasn't necessarily causing markets to sell off, which meant that there was already seller fatigue and most of the folks that were shorter term holders or potential sellers had exited the market.
我们看到了微策略公司出售比特币引发的初步抛售，当价格从七万多跌到六万多、五万多时，我们也触及了比特币的一些关键技术支撑位，并且这些支撑位守住了。
We saw the initial sell off from the micro strategy Bitcoin selling and when we moved down from high 70s to low 60s, high 50s, which also we hit some key support levels on a technical basis for Bitcoin and those hold.
然后我们看到，股市的其他部分开始稍微降温，但仍然强劲，我认为人工智能交易不会就此消失。
And then what we've seen is the rest of the market equities start to cool off a little bit, still strong, I think the AI trade is not necessarily going anywhere.
但随后比特币和更广泛的加密货币开始按我们预期的方式作出反应。
But then Bitcoin and broader crypto start to react as we would expect it to react.
那就是从大约六万四、六万五千美元到现在的这一波上涨，当时财政部宣布他们要进行某种形式的量化宽松。
And that was that initial move from like $64 $65 k up to where we are now when the Treasury announced that they're doing a form of QE.
他们不一定用这个词，但购买长期债券以压低收益率，而比特币历来表现得像一种宏观资产。
They didn't necessarily phrase it that way, but purchasing long bonds to bring down yields, which Bitcoin has traditionally acted like a macro asset.
再加上所有这些其他监管方面的利好，以及如果你相信四年周期理论——虽然观点不一，但它会影响资金流动——那就会与十月份相吻合。
Then you have all these other regulatory tailwinds along with the fact that if you're a four year cycle believer, which there's a mix of folks, but it has an impact on flows, that would line up with October.
大家都在抢跑，想提前布局。
And people look to front run that.
离十月还有一个月。
We're a month away from October.
对。
Yep.
没错。
Absolutely.
四年周期、一些技术面，还有市场情绪。
Four year cycle, some technicals, and, vibes.
看起来市场情绪又回来了，风险偏好回升。
It seems like the vibes are are back risk on.
我们有几个一起工作的朋友，都是深度玩 meme 币的，算是“赌徒”那种。
A couple of our buddies are are you know, that we work with are are deep meme coin trenchers, degens.
他们给我看的那些币，在 meme 币这边已经涨了 100 倍了。
They're showing me coins that are going up a 100 x already on the meme coin side.
你知道，我和布伦丹更多是在DeFi、RWA这些领域，还有一些AI相关的东西，但模因币现在确实很火。
You know, you know, Brendan and I kind of operate more on the DeFi side, RWAs, you know, some of the AI stuff, but the meme coins are firing.
这通常是个好信号，说明风险偏好正在回归市场。
And that tends to be a good signal that risk is coming back into the market.
还有哪些迹象或指标能说明加密货币的风险偏好真的回来了？
What else can you look at or point to that shows you, you know, crypto, you know, risk appetite is really coming back on the table?
不只是那些投机者，还有机构和大资金玩家。
Not only for the degens, but for institutions and the folks that really could move the money.
对，有几件事。
Yeah, so a couple of things.
甚至在主流币在夏天触底之前，你就已经看到了熊市周期尾声的典型现象——一些基本面扎实的个别资产开始跑赢大盘。
Even before maybe majors bottomed out over the summertime, you saw what is usually the tail end of a bear cycle where you start to see outperformance from individual assets with strong fundamentals.
我们在2022到2023年就见过这种情况，GMX就是DeFi领域里表现很好的一个例子。
We saw that back in the twenty twenty two-twenty twenty three period, GMX being an example of something that actually traded really well within the DeFi complex.
这次呢，Venice表现强劲，Hyperliquid也很强，还有Zcash和其他几个。
This time around, Venice was a strong performer, Hyperliquid was a strong performer, Zcash, a couple others.
这说明市场对合适的资产是有风险偏好的。
And that shows that there is risk appetite for the right sorts of assets.
然后随着时间的推移，这种偏好会变得更广泛，人们愿意去竞标那些有基本面支撑的资产，而不只是最顶尖的那几个，这时候你就会看到更多的风险资金流入。
And then over time, it becomes a little bit more broad based where people are willing to bid things that have a fundamental backing, but are not necessarily only the cream of the crop, and that's where you see more risk flows.
所以今年早些时候就已经开始了。
So that's when it began earlier in the year.
现在，我们看到了其他信号。
Right now, we're seeing other signals.
比如在链上数据方面，你可以从Pump的收入看出来。
So related to the on chain stuff, you can see it in Pump's revenue.
因为Robinhood链和迷因股票配对上的活动分散了一些注意力，所以收入有所回落，但它从每天30万美元的回购增长到每天超过100万美元的回购，收入翻了三倍。
It's since pulled back a little bit because of all the activity on Robinhood Chain and the meme stock pairings, which have diverted some attention, but that went from 300,000 of buybacks a day to well over 1,000,000 of buybacks, the revenue tripling.
看到了
Saw
那是Pump的。
That's for Pump.
有意思。
Fun.
那是Pump。
That's Pump.
有意思。
Fun.
而且Hip三个市场也在持续增长。
And then also continued growth in Hip three markets.
所以加密货币的基本论点，就是把市场带到全天候的环境，并把结算成本降到零。
So the fundamental thesis of crypto, which is bringing markets to 20 fourseven environment and bringing settlement down to zero.
所以人们长期以来一直在谈论的两个主要部分，或者可能是三个主要部分，就是货币、支付和金融资产。
So it's like the two main parts or three main parts maybe that people have been talking about for a really long time are money, payments, and financial assets.
这些都在同时发生，这些就是被追捧的东西。
All of those are happening simultaneously, those are the things that are being bid.
这些对我来说就是一些信号。
Those are some of the signals for me.
最后一块拼图是，传统配置者最愿意配置哪些资产，是出于熟悉度还是基本面？
Then the last piece is what are the assets that traditional allocators are most comfortable allocating to from either a familiarity story or a fundamental story?
当然，Hyperliquid 在名单上，但看看 Uniswap 和 Link 这些已经存在一段时间、传统配置者有很多时间熟悉并看到强劲表现的资产。
Of course, Hyperliquid is on that list, but just looking at the performance of things like Uniswap and Link that have been around for a while that traditional allocators have had a lot of time to get comfortable with and seeing strong performance there.
我注意到你刚才提到的很多选择中，有一个共同点是代币经济结构，无论是回购、销毁还是利润分享。
Now one of the things that I noticed with a lot of the picks that you just mentioned is the tokenomics structure, whether it be buybacks, whether it be burns, whether it be profit sharing.
你看到很多项目的代币经济发生了转变，更注重为代币持有者提供更好的激励或价值。
You've seen a shift in tokenomics of a lot of projects where it is more focused upon providing a better incentive or value to the token holder.
我认为这四个都是很好的例子。
And I think all four of those are great examples.
而且我不认为这是巧合，你看到 Uniswap 直线飙升，Pump 和 Hyperliquid 创历史新高，例子还有很多。
And I don't think it's a coincidence that you see Uniswap going parabolic, and you've seen Pump and Hyperliquid at all time highs, for example, and the list goes on.
你觉得这会不会成为交易者和投资者的新必需品，或者至少是一个新的有利因素？
Do you see that becoming, like, a new necessity or at least a new favorable piece for traders and investors?
因为感觉那些提供回购、激励、销毁或利润分享的代币，似乎才是真正受益并跑赢的。
Because it kinda feels as if those tokens that are offering buybacks or incentives or burns or profit sharing or something like that, those really feel like they're the ones benefiting and running here.
这只是我自己的想法，还是你也看到投资者和交易者真的在重视这些？
Is that just, like, inside my head, or is, like, that something that you see investors and traders are truly valuing?
不，我觉得你说得完全对。
No, I think that is absolutely right.
Hyperliquid 就是最好的例子之一。
And Hyperliquid is one of the best examples of that.
我觉得大家混淆了一个很重要的区别，那就是如果你把价值返还给代币持有者，代币就会表现好。
I think people are conflating a distinction that is important to separate, where if you returned value to token holders, the token would do well.
但事实并非如此。
That's not the case.
有很多协议都有很好的代币经济模型。
There's lots of protocols with great tokenomics.
但你还得快速增长，并且背后有一个强大且可持续的业务。
You also need to be growing quickly and have a strong, durable business underneath.
比如 Morpho，
Like Morpho,
对冲基金的创始人前几天就指出了这一点。
the hedge founder, kind of pointed that out the other day.
他说，是的，我们还没有开始回购。
He's like, yeah, we're not doing buybacks yet.
我们觉得，如果把资金投入到业务中，而不是回购代币，资本回报率会更高。
Like, we think the return on capital is gonna be better if we, you know, just invest in the business and don't, you know, sort of buy back the tokens.
对，Morpho就是一个很好的例子。
Yeah, and Morpho is a great example.
他们虽然没有回购，但所有价值都流向了代币，所以投资者对那里很放心。
It's like, well, they're not doing buybacks, but all the value is going to the token, so investors feel comfortable there.
而且业务也做得很好，相比之下，有些协议虽然在做回购，但业务表现不佳，这些代币的交易情况也不理想。
And the business is doing really well, where there are some protocols that are doing buybacks, but the business isn't doing well and those haven't traded well.
但是
But
是的，我觉得我们只会朝着那个方向更进一步。
yeah, I would say we're only moving more in that direction.
而且我觉得这个趋势还在加速。
And I think that's accelerating.
过去两年，很多加密货币投资者在股票上的投入比之前更多了。
A lot of investors in crypto have invested more in equities over the last two years than they had previously.
我觉得投资股票是一种挺让人放松的体验，因为不用担心“哎呀，万一这个股票的价值没有体现出来怎么办？”
And I think it was a little bit of a refreshing respite to invest in a stock and not have to worry about like, Oh, but what if the stock doesn't get the value from being generated?
就是，不，这是股票。
It's like, No, it's a stock.
就是这么运作的。
That's how it works.
而且大家不太愿意承担那种不知道价值会流向哪里的风险。
And there's not a lot of appetite for the risk that comes with not knowing where value is going to go.
所以是的，这种情况只会继续下去。
So yeah, that will only continue.
你知道什么最拖慢团队进度吗？
You know what slows teams down more than anything?
其实不总是人员预算或者工具本身的问题。
It's not always the headcount budget or even the tools themselves.
真正的问题是，工作流程只存在于某人的脑子里，从来没有真正被记录下来。
It's when the way work gets done lives in someone's head and never actually gets documented.
然后新同事加入，新平台上线，或者队友离开，突然每个人都在用不同的方式做同样的流程。
Then someone new joins, a new platform gets rolled out, or a teammate leaves, and suddenly everybody's doing the same process in a different way.
这正是今天的赞助商Scribe要解决的问题。
That's exactly the problem today's sponsor, Scribe, was built to solve.
Scribe是一个工作流AI平台，94%的财富500强公司都在使用它。
Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500.
它能在工作流程发生时自动捕捉，并将其转化为分步文档，供团队查看和分享。
It captures workflows as they happen and turns them into step by step documentation your team can review and share.
你只需要像平常一样操作，Scribe会边做边生成指南，自动捕捉每一个点击、步骤和截图。
You just do the process like you normally would and Scribe builds the guide as you go, capturing every click, step, and screenshot automatically.
因为我们的团队是远程的，我确实遇到过好几次需要向同事重复解释同样的设置或流程的情况，总觉得这些应该第一次就记录下来。
With our team being remote, I have definitely had moments where I've had to explain the same setup or process more than once to a colleague, and it always feels like something that should have been documented the first time.
有了Scribe，原本需要花几个小时编写和整理的内容，不到一分钟就能准备好分享。
With Scribe, what could take hours of writing and cleanup can be ready to share in under a minute.
Scribe还会自动从截图中隐去敏感信息，比如姓名、邮箱和账号。
Scribe also automatically redacts sensitive information like names, emails, and account numbers from screenshots.
管理员可以在整个团队中强制执行这一功能，确保没有任何遗漏。
Admins can enforce that across the team so nothing slips through the cracks.
此外，任何按照流程操作的人都能获得实时的屏幕指引，准确显示在实际工具中该点击哪里。
Plus, anyone following the process can get real time on screen guidance showing exactly where to click inside the actual tool.
Scribe不仅仅是记录工作流程，它还会利用AI来建议改进方法，帮助你发现冗余步骤，以及简化或自动化的机会。
Scribe doesn't just document workflows, it uses AI to suggest ways to improve them, helping you spot redundant steps and opportunities to simplify or automate.
想看看Scribe能为你的团队带来什么，请访问scribe.how/crypto101，并提及crypto101，即可在特定套餐中免费使用Scribe Capture首月。
To see what Scribe could look like for your org, head to scribe.how/crypto101 and mention crypto101 for your first month of scribe capture free on select plans.
网址是scribe.how/crypto101。
That's scribescribe.how/crypto10one.
现在大家都在谈论AI，但真正重要的AI是那种能帮你节省时间、做出更明智决策、减轻工作负担的AI。
Everybody is talking about AI right now, but the AI that actually matters is the kind that saves you time, helps you make smarter decisions, and takes work off your plate.
如果你在经营电商业务，发货这件事要么让你顺风顺水，要么让你彻底卡住。
And if you're running an e commerce business, shipping is one of those things that can either keep you moving or completely slow you down.
这就是我喜欢ShipStation的原因。
That's why I like ShipStation.
它是一个专为电商业务打造的一站式订单履行平台，其AI基于全球数十亿次发货的几十年真实数据训练而成。
It's an end to end order fulfillment platform built for ecommerce businesses, and its AI is trained on decades of real shipping data from billions of shipments across the world.
所以，不用再手忙脚乱地切换各种工具，ShipStation能帮你掌控全局。
So instead of juggling a bunch of different tools, ShipStation helps you stay in control.
它能在库存不足时提醒你，推荐最佳承运商和费率，自动化任务，帮你在业务增长时节省时间。
It can alert you when your stock is low, recommend the best carrier selections and rates, automate tasks, help you save time as you grow.
你还能获得跨销售渠道的库存同步、自动比价、品牌化退货门户，以及与会计和CRM软件的集成，所有这些都集中在一个地方。
You also get inventory syncing across sales channels, automatic rate shopping, a branded returns portal, and integrations with accounting and CRM software all in one place.
如果我在经营电商店铺，这正是我想要的工具，因为一旦订单开始涌入，你肯定不希望发货成为拖后腿的环节。
If I were running an e commerce store, this is exactly the kind of tool I'd want because once the orders start coming in, you don't want shipping to be the thing that's holding you back.
超过一百万家商家信赖ShipStation来优化和扩展他们的发货流程。
Over 1,000,000 businesses have trusted ShipStation to optimize and scale their shipping.
你越早切换，就能越早开始节省时间和金钱。
The sooner you switch, the sooner you start saving time and money.
今天就注册ShipStation，在shipstation.com输入优惠码crypto，即可免费使用六十天。
Get started with ShipStation today and get sixty days free at shipstation.com with code crypto.
网址是shipstation.com，优惠码crypto。
That's shipstation.com, code crypto.
shipstation.com，优惠码crypto。
Shipstation.com, code crypto.
税费和手续费另计。
Taxes and fees apply.
不知道你怎么样，但我经常到了饭点才想起来要做饭。
I don't know about you, but dinner sneaks up on me all the time.
打开冰箱才发现没有现成的蛋白质，这时候我可不想再去超市，临时跑一趟，还得赌店里还剩什么肉或者汉堡。
I'll open the fridge and realize I have no protein ready, and at that point, I'm not trying to go to the store, make a last minute grocery run, and gamble on whatever meats or burgers are left at the store.
所以Omaha Steaks是个很好的囤货选择。
That's why Omaha Steaks is a great freezer move.
就像家里有个信得过的肉铺老板，最需要的时候随时有好肉。
It's like having a trusted butcher at home and quality protein when you need it the most.
奥马哈牛排用一百多年的时间赢得了好口碑。
Omaha Steaks has earned its reputation with over a hundred years.
全国各地的厨房都信赖同样的牛肉，直接送到你家门口。
It's the same beef trusted in kitchens across the country, shipped straight to your door.
牛排馆的品质，却不用花牛排馆的价钱。
Steakhouse quality without the steakhouse prices.
你家人会以为晚餐花了好几个小时，其实并没有。
Your family will think dinner took hours, but it didn't.
只要几分钟。
Just minutes.
如果你还没试过，汉堡完美拼盘是绝佳的入门选择。
And if you never tried them, the burger perfection flight is the perfect place to start.
你能吃到20个优质牛排汉堡，用的是五种不同部位的牛排。
You get 20 premium steak burgers made from five different cuts of steak.
四块菲力牛排汉堡、四块纽约客牛排汉堡、四块肋眼牛排汉堡、四块牛胸肉汉堡和四块西冷牛排汉堡。
Four filet mignon burgers, four New York Strip burgers, four rib eye burgers, four brisket burgers, and four sirloin burgers.
各位，这简直就是汉堡界的山寨币组合。
Guys, this is the altcoin basket of burgers right here.
如果我和布莱恩在节目里，我们肯定会把这些对半分，因为你知道我们夏天多喜欢烧烤。
If me and Brian were on the rundown, we would be divvying these up fifty fifty because you know how we like to grill in the summer.
所以你不只是拿到一盒汉堡，而是能体验到不同的风味、不同的口感，还有真正的牛排馆级别的多样性，你可以随时扔到烤架上，或者工作日快速搞定一餐。
So So you're not just getting a box of burgers, you're getting different flavor profiles, different textures, and real steakhouse style variety you can throw on the grill or cook up fast during the week.
今天就到 omahasteaks.com 试试这个汉堡完美组合吧。
Try the burger perfection flight at omahasteaks.com today.
20个优质牛排汉堡只要79.99美元，另外使用促销码 beef 还能再减35美元。
That's 20 premium steak burgers for just $79.99, plus get 35 off with the promo code beef.
网址是 omahasteaks.com。
That's omahasteaks.com.
结账时输入促销码 beef 立减35美元。
Promo code beef for $35 off at checkout.
条款适用。
Terms apply.
详情请见网站。
See site for details.
这挺疯狂的，你知道，有些加密货币代币正在变得……你懂吗？
It's pretty crazy that, you know, some crypto tokens are becoming more You know?
我觉得加密货币最初，你懂的，有点抛弃了所有传统金融的东西。
It's like, I think crypto originally, you know, kinda threw out, any, you know, trad fi stuff.
他们当时说，哦，我们要彻底重新发明一切。
They were like, oh, we're gonna completely reinvent things.
然后，你懂的，时间快进，现在我们到了今天。
And, like, you know, fast forward, here we are today.
他们现在说，嗯，过去几百年资本市场的经验，可能有些有用的东西。
They're like, well, the last few hundred years of capital markets, might have some useful stuff.
我们为什么不把这些加回到这些加密货币代币上呢？
Why don't we add back that to, these crypto tokens?
而且，你知道吗，我甚至见过一些代币，尤其是最近看到的Centrifuge，它们说要把代币转成真正的股权。
And, you know, I've even seen some tokens, namely centrifuge is the main one that I've seen recently say, we're gonna transition our token, to an actual equity.
这会是，你知道，我甚至都不知道。
It's gonna be you know, you know, I don't even know.
比如，这比代币化股权更高级，还是说，这到底意味着什么？
Like, it's more than a tokenized equity, or is it, what would that entail?
我的意思是，就像绕了一圈又回来了，实际上让代币变成股权。
I mean, like, coming full circle, like, actually having a token turn into an equity.
那这是一个更大的趋势，还是只是个例？
And is that a broader trend, or is that just a one off?
你怎么看这个？
What do think about that?
所以我不确定我们是否会看到很多代币真正变成现在定义的那种股权。
So I don't know if we're gonna actually see that many examples of becoming specifically equities as they are defined today.
我认为，这些创新豁免中的很大一部分，以及《清晰法案》的核心——不管是以《清晰法案》的形式通过，还是通过一系列小措施——都是为了让代币能够更明确地向代币持有者传递价值。
I think a big part of some of these innovation exemptions and the essence of Clarity Act, whether it goes through in the form of the Clarity Act or in a bunch of smaller things, is to give tokens the ability to more explicitly deliver value to token holders.
你说到要从过去的教训中学习，这一点在各个领域都在发生，不需要重新发明轮子。
To your point on learning from the lessons of the past, that's happening across the board in terms of not needing to reinvent the wheel.
但同样重要的是，要思考代币的独特之处。
But it's also important to think about how tokens are unique.
比如说，如果有一个类似协议的东西，我们用苹果公司来做个类比。
Let's say there was something that's similar to a protocol that's let's use Apple as a comp.
当你买今天刚发布的苹果Duo，就是那款折叠屏手机，我看到了。
When you buy the Apple Duo that was just announced today, the foldable I saw that.
也许苹果想激励人们。
And maybe Apple wants to incentivize people.
如果你是早期购买者，他们会给你苹果股票作为奖励。
And if you're an early buyer, they give you shares of Apple stock as a reward.
如果不是代币化，尤其是如果它根本就不是代币，这真的很难做到。
That's really hard to do if it's not tokenized and especially if it's just not a token in general.
但通过用代币奖励利益相关者，让他们拥有协议的所有权，这是很容易做到的。
But that's something that you can easily do as far as giving stakeholders ownership in the protocol by rewarding them with tokens.
这在加密货币的农耕场景里被过度强调了，但我认为你可以有股权加，既保留股权的价值捕获和权利，又能做这些围绕客户获取的新颖事情。
That's been overemphasized in farming contexts in crypto, but I think you can have equity plus where it's the value capture and rights of equity, but do all of these novel things around customer acquisition.
即使在基金方面，吸取过去的教训，过去十年大多数流动性基金只是长期持有、长期偏见的流动性风险投资。
Even on the fund side, learning from the lessons of the past, most liquid funds over the last ten years were just liquid venture with long holding periods and long bias for a very long time.
现在，我在Rockaway X做的是多空投资组合，这是大多数股票对冲基金的运作方式。
Now, what I am doing at Rockaway X is running a long short portfolio, which is how all equity hedge funds run for the most part.
在我看来，这就是未来的方向，是管理风险和波动性资产类别的合适方式。
And that's, in my opinion, where things are headed in the appropriate way to manage risk and manage a volatile asset class.
嗯，之前我们刚在讨论周期的一般情况。
Well, earlier, we were just talking about the cycles in general.
我注意到的一件事是，感觉每个周期的牛市表现都不一样。
And one of the things that I've noticed is that it feels like the bull market behaves differently in every cycle.
对吧？
Right?
所以展望未来，你知道，如果我们认为我们正在转向下一个牛市，每个牛市都和之前的不同，你觉得这个周期会有什么变化？
And so looking forward, you know, if we think that we're shifting gears into that into that next bull market every bull market feels different from the previous ones, what do you think changes this cycle?
那我们该怎么应对呢？
And how should we approach it?
我觉得这会开始更像股市了。
I think it starts to look a lot more like the stock market.
如果经济表现不错，整体趋势可能会向上。
I think you potentially have a general trend higher if the economy is doing well.
我们可以把它叫做微型加密经济。
So let's call that like the micro crypto economy.
就像纳斯达克和标普表现好的时候，但不是所有股票都涨。
And this is when the NASDAQ and S and P does well, but not everything does.
有些特定领域会表现更好，比如内存股因为基本面创新或需求增加而重新估值。
You have particular areas that do better, whether it's memory stocks rerating because there's some fundamental innovation or increased demand.
然后这可能会体现在DeFi领域的需求增加上，DeFi板块表现很好，但其他市场只是横盘或小幅上涨。
And then maybe that plays out in terms of more demand within DeFi, and the DeFi sector does really well, but the rest of the market is just treading water or moving slightly higher.
然后你会看到资金轮动到当时基本面最强、叙事最好、动能最足的板块。
Then you see those rotations to whichever sector has the strongest fundamentals and the best narrative and momentum at that time.
不过，我觉得它跟2017年、2021年或2024年不太像。
But yeah, I do not think it looks that similar to 2017 or 2021 or 2024.
这更像是一个选币的市场，而不是所有币一起涨，这其实是好事。
This is going to be much more of a token picker's market than everything go up together, which is a good thing.
而且，如果你知道该涨的币大概率会涨，那投资人的工作也会轻松一些。
Also, I think makes the job of an investor a little bit easier if you know that the things that should go up are probably the things that will go up.
嗯，我觉得这是大家都在问的问题。
Well, I think that's the question everybody's asking.
当然，这不是什么财务建议之类的。
Of course, there's no financial advice or anything.
所有内容都只是教育性的，代表个人观点。
Everything's educational on your own personal views.
但是，你知道，有哪些代币特别吸引你的注意呢？
But, you know, what are some of those tokens that that have really caught your eye?
我知道，我们之前聊过的那对双胞胎之一就是Venice，最近一周它正好上了新闻，因为OpenAI的隐私泄露事件闹得沸沸扬扬，而Venice因为这条消息跳空高开，因为如果你有私有推理，就不会有这些隐私泄露问题。
I know, you know, one of the twins we've talked about with you before has been Venice, which is very aptly in the news, this, you know, past week here with some rumblings about OpenAI's privacy breaches, and, you know, Venice gapped higher on the news because, you know, you can't have all these privacy breaches if you have private inference.
所以我知道VVV是你一直关注的，但最近还有什么其他项目让你感兴趣呢？
So I know VVV is one that's been top of mind, but what else is kind of out there that's kind of peaking your interest these days?
我对Venice非常感兴趣，我觉得他们才刚刚开始挖掘他们的潜在市场。
So very interested in Venice, and I think they're really just scratching the surface of their addressable market.
现在这已经是共识了，但我还是觉得Hyperliquid会涨得更高。
This is pretty consensus at this point, but I think Hyperliquid is still going a lot higher.
它已经证明了自己是明确的市场领导者，市场份额稳固，而且从一月份以来的这几个月，它有点像Polymarket那样，开始进入主流视野，让大家理解加密货币带来的新颖事物，比如在传统市场交易时间之外进行价格发现，尤其是特朗普喜欢在周末搞事情。
It's shown that it's the clear market leader, durable market share, really having over the last couple of months since January, a poly market moment of sorts where it's breaching mainstream and in terms of an understanding of something that's novel and new that's coming from crypto, which is the fact that you have price discovery outside of traditional market hours, especially Trump likes to do things on weekends.
所以你会看到油价或者其他东西在动。
So that means that you see oil moving or X, Y, Z.
还有IPO前的市场。
You have pre IPO markets.
在过去几个月里，IPO定价就是这么来的，而且Anthropic的IPO接下来几个月就要来了，应该会有很大的交易量。
That's a meaningful way that over the last couple of months, IPOs have been priced and we have the Anthropic IPO coming up in the next couple of months and that should see a lot of volume.
Zcash也很有意思。
Zcash is really interesting.
感觉它在社区共识上正在达到一个临界点，大家开始把它看作一种类似但又不同的比特币，作为价值存储资产，还包含隐私功能，人们也在做这样的比较。
It feels like it's hitting a critical mass in terms of its community consensus around being a similar but different type of Bitcoin as a store of value asset that includes privacy and people making those comparisons.
在我看来，这很像2017年3月到5月那段时间，当时比特币首次突破1000美元。
And in my mind, it looks a lot like the March, April, May period of 2017 when Bitcoin first passed 1,000.
我知道Zcash刚刚从20涨到1000，我也不想太贪心。
And I know Zcash just went from 20 to 1,000 and don't want to necessarily push our luck.
但在那3月到5月期间，比特币从1000美元迅速涨到了3000美元。
But in that March, April, May period, Bitcoin went from 1,000 to 3,000 really quickly.
所以我觉得类似的走势也不是不可能。
So I don't think a move like that is off the table.
就像你之前提到的，这些都是我的个人观点。
As you mentioned before, these are my opinions.
这些都不是投资建议，但我觉得人们低估了这些资产的反射性，尤其是那些基本面增长非常快的东西，或者像Zcash这样的，对货币来说，价格越高，货币的基本面反而越好，这很独特。
None of this is financial advice, but I think people underestimate how reflexive these assets can become, specifically things with fundamentals that are growing really quickly and or something like Zcash, which for money, the fundamentals of money actually improve the higher the price, which is unique.
那你分析这个的时候，主要关注哪些方面？
So what do you dial in on when you're looking at this?
因为，我的意思是，威尼斯币正在涨。
Because, I mean, Venice is running.
Zcash也在涨。
Zcash is running.
市场上有很多这样的项目，我完全同意你的看法。
There is a lot out there, and I completely agree with you.
我最近正在着手构建我们这边这周要做的某个东西。
I was just in the process of building something that that we're gonna do on our end this week.
我在其中提到的一点是，所谓‘万物皆涨’的周期，我真的不太相信。
And one of the things I mentioned in it was that this idea that it's gonna be an everything cycle is just something that I I really don't believe in.
我觉得加密货币市场已经发展到了一个阶段，有明确的赢家，也有明确的输家。
I think that the crypto market has expanded to a point where there are clear winners and there's clear losers.
我认为，那些真正在做实事、提供价值并且不断增长的项目，才会成功。
And I think what is, you know, actually doing things and providing value and growing, like, that's what's going to succeed.
我知道这听起来有点傻，也很直白，但事实就是如此。
And I know that that sounds, like, kinda stupid and straightforward, but it's true.
而且市面上有很多项目，它们没有在增长，没有在建设，也没有在提供价值。
And there's a lot of projects out there that aren't growing and that they're not building and they're not providing value.
你就能看到它们慢慢消失，然后新项目取代它们。
And you kinda just see them go off into the distance and new projects replace them.
所以我想问，你是怎么看的？
So I guess what do you look at?
因为过去几年，加密货币的数量呈抛物线式增长。
Because the amount of cryptos has gone parabolic in the last several years.
我的意思是，如果你看看现在存在的加密货币数量，我记得，可能我们所有当时在场的人都知道。
I mean, if you look at how many cryptos are are in existence, I remember, I'm probably all of us who I think were there.
你知道，以前只有几千种加密货币，后来变成一万种，再后来十万种，现在有数千万种，而且这只是CoinMarketCap上记录的。
You know, back in the day, there was a few thousand cryptos, and there's 10,000, then a 100,000, and now there's tens of millions, and that's just, like, what's recorded on coin market cap.
你觉得要筛选掉这些噪音，最重要的是关注哪些方面？
What do you think are the most important things to maybe pay attention to to sift through all that noise?
所以今年基金主要关注两个主题，一个是加密货币和人工智能的交集，另一个是全天候的代币化市场交易。
So there's two main themes that have been the focus of the fund for the majority of the year, which is the intersection of crypto and AI and then tokenizationtwenty fourseven trading of markets.
我觉得这些领域会是我们看到最有趣的发展、最大的增长、最多的关注，还有最多的资金流入的地方，这一点很重要。
I think those are the areas that we will see the most interesting developments, the most growth, the most attention, just the most capital flows as well, which is important.
所以是的，就是这两件事。
So yeah, those are the two things.
我想第三件事，其实在加密货币领域一直如此，就是货币作为价值储存的主题，而不一定是交换媒介。
I guess the third thing, which is really always the case in crypto, is money as a theme in terms of store value, not necessarily medium of exchange.
交换媒介和稳定币，其实更属于代币化那一类。
Medium of exchange and stablecoins put in that tokenization category really more so.
但这就是我目前最关注的两三件事。
But those are the the two or three things that that I think are are top of mind.
好吧，那我们把这个问题反过来问一下，那些表现不太好的东西呢？
Well, let's flip that question on its head, I guess, and say, what about the things that just have not been doing well?
我相信我们都经历过这种情况。
I'm sure we've all been there.
如果我们正进入牛市开始重新加速和反转的阶段，很多人可能手里还拿着之前周期留下的代币，那些代币现在已经不太有生命力了。
If we're entering into the stage where we feel like the bull market's starting to ramp back up and reverse, a lot of people probably have tokens from the prior cycles that just aren't very viable anymore.
你是怎么处理这些的，然后说，嘿。
How do you approach those and say, hey.
你知道，也许我想留着这个代币。
You know, maybe I wanna keep this token.
我想卖掉那个代币。
I wanna cut that token.
我想从这个重新分配到那个。
I wanna reallocate from this to there.
你的决策过程是怎样的？
How what goes into your process on deciding that?
是不是只看这个加密货币属于哪个类别？
Is it just based off of what, you know, category the crypto is working in?
它属于哪个领域？
What what genre it's in?
是基于代币经济模型吗？
Is it based off of tokenomics?
是根据价格表现吗？
Is it based off of price performance?
是根据链上指标吗？
Is it on chain metrics?
在考虑新周期而重新调整投资组合时，你最看重什么？
What matters to you the most when kind of reorganizing a portfolio with a new cycle in mind?
是的，我会从这样的角度去看：如果我持有某个东西，对吧，我今天还会再买它吗？
Yeah, so I look at it from the framing of if I own something, right, would I buy that again today?
你必须不断重新评估你持有的东西。
You constantly have to re underwrite what you own it.
如果你持有某样东西只是因为过去一直持有，那并不是继续持有的好理由。
If it is something that you own because you have owned in the past, that is not necessarily a great reason to continue to hold it.
我知道人们会有各种偏见，比如希望看到价格回到原来的位置，或者你可能亏了，不想割肉。
I know there is all sorts of biases around wanting to see something go back to where it was and maybe you are down and don't want to sell at a loss.
这就是大致的思路。
That is the general framing.
我会看链上的活跃度、他们按路线图的执行情况、团队参与度、代币经济模型怎么样，所有这些你提到的因素，用来判断我现在会不会持有它。
I use on chain traction, the execution against their roadmap, how involved the team is, what do the tokenomics look like, all of those things that you mentioned as inputs to determine, would I own it now?
然后我会想，如果我现在不会持有它，那我可能根本不应该持有它。
Then thinking about like, well, if I wouldn't own it now, I probably shouldn't own it, period.
不过有一个例外，这个非常非常难判断，所以也许最好别去尝试，就是有很多代币，在市场复苏的时候，会涨10%、20%、50%、100%，因为资金又开始流入，而且这些代币流动性差。
The one caveat that I would say to this, which is very, very tricky to determine, so maybe best not to even try, is there's a lot of tokens that, as markets recover, go up 10%, 20%, 50%, 100% because you start to see flows again and they're illiquid.
所以也许有机会在你不打算长期持有的东西上，选择最佳时机退出，而不是在绝对底部卖出。
So maybe there's opportunity to time your exit optimally on something that you don't necessarily want to own long term versus sell at the absolute bottom.
但我的思路一直是，如果今天我不会买它，那我可能就不应该持有它。
But my framing is always, if I wouldn't buy it today, I probably shouldn't own it.
好的。
Okay.
回到我们最近讨论的一个币，就是Zcash。
One of the things kind of going back to one of the coins that we talked about recently was Zcash.
这个币，就像你说的，市值有200亿美元，但它的总潜在市场价值，你知道，是比特币或者比特币想要达到的那个位置。
And this is, something that is kind of, you know, like you said, $20,000,000,000 market cap, but the total addressable market value is, you know, Bitcoin or wherever Bitcoin is trying to be.
所以它的增长空间非常大。
So it has a really big growth opportunity.
但我觉得特别酷的一点是，他们最近刚刚推出了，或者说灰度推出了一个ETF。
But one of the things that I thought was pretty cool was that they just recently launched, or Grayscale launched a, ETF for them.
所以就像你在券商账户里交易iBIT或FBTC或其他流动性好的开放式ETF一样，现在你也可以交易Zcash了。
And so the same way that you trade iBIT or FBTC or any of these other, you know, liquid open ended ETFs in your brokerage account, you can now trade Zcash.
你需要支付2.5%的年化管理费，这对ETF来说有点高，但你现在也可以交易它的期权了。
You pay a 2.5% annualized management fee, which is a little high for an ETF, but you could also trade options on this, now.
所以在家听节目的朋友，如果你想在券商账户里交易Zcash的期权，这就是我说的波动性高，这已经是你能遇到的最高的波动性了。
And so anybody who's at home listening and, you know, wants to trade options on Zcash and their brokerage, that is what I talk when I talk about high volatility, that's as high volatility as you could get,
这正合我意。
just speaking my language.
对，这真的很酷，因为散户交易者，其实所有投资者，对期权都非常熟悉，甚至比对永续合约还熟悉。
Yeah, that is really cool because retail traders and really just investors in general are super familiar with options, even more so than perps.
永续合约是加密货币圈的人熟悉的产品，而传统领域的人刚开始了解它。
Perps are kind of the product that crypto people know that traditional people are starting to learn more about.
Zcash期权的隐含波动率非常高。
The implied volatility on Zcash options is very, very high.
所以它的定价不会和比特币一样。
So it's not going be priced the same way as Bitcoin.
但确实，我认为这会扩大投资者群体，一方面能以这种形式获取，另一方面也能进行对冲、买入看跌期权来保护仓位。
But yeah, I do think it increases the allocator base to be able to one, access it in that form, but two, also to be able to hedge and buy puts and protect the position.
是的，这挺有意思的。
Yeah, so it's interesting to see.
还有，那2.5%的费用，其实就是现有的信托产品转成ETF后的费用。
Also, the 2.5%, that's just the existing trust product that converted over to an ETF.
我相信我们很快会看到其他10个ETF，最终会把成本降得更低。
I'm sure we're going to see 10 other ETFs that eventually end up bringing that cost a lot lower.
对，这很有道理。
No, that makes a ton of sense.
看到Zcash进入券商平台，真是挺有趣的。
It's just fun to to see, you know, Zcash infiltrating the the brokerage houses.
说到券商，现在还有Robinhood，他们现在也把自己的专业能力带到了自己的链上，推出了Robinhood Chain。
And speaking of brokerage houses, we've got Robinhood, which now is, you know, bringing their expertise to their own chain with the Robinhood Chain.
你在那里交易过吗？
Have you been trading there?
你看到了什么？
What are you seeing?
这只是一时的热潮，还是更有深意？
Is this a flash in the pan, or is this more?
我觉得这绝对不是一时的热潮。
I don't think it's a flash in the pan at all.
我对前端执行层的看法是，你要么拥有顶尖的技术和良好的分销渠道，而这种分销会形成网络效应，不断自我强化。
The way I think about in front execution layers is you are either best in class technology with good distribution, and that distribution builds network effects that grows upon itself.
Solana可能是这方面的最佳例子。要么就是技术足够好，然后拥有非常非常强大的分销能力。
Would say Solana is probably the best example of that, Or it is good enough tech that then has really, really strong distribution.
过去，BNB可能是这方面的最佳例子，就是币安链。
In the past, BNB was probably the best example of that, Binance Chain.
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然后Base也是一个很好的例子。
Then Base has also been a great example of that.
Robinhood现在可能是最好的例子，作为一个顶级消费级金融应用，它拥有庞大的用户基础，可以将其带入链上。
Robinhood now is probably the best example in terms of a tier one consumer application financial product that has a massive user base that it can bring on chain.
所以是的，不知道它是否会继续每天为链上带来500万或1000万美元的收入。
So yeah, don't know if it's going to continue to do 5,000,000 or $10,000,000 of revenue a day for the chain.
这可能会稍微下降，他们可能也会优化费用，因为那不是一个理想的用户体验。
That probably comes down a little bit and they probably optimize fees as well because that's not an ideal user experience.
但是，是的，我可以看到这不会随着时间继续增长。
But, yeah, I I can see this not continuing to grow over time.
我觉得这是一个很酷的趋势，所有这些不同的RWA，也就是现实世界资产，现在都在上链。
I think it's a cool trend where you have, you know, all these different RWAs, or, you know, real world assets now becoming on chain.
你看到代币从链上转移到链下，变成股权。
You're seeing, you know, tokens go off chain and become equity.
你看到传统券商推出自己的加密协议。
You're seeing a traditional brokerage houses launch their own, you know, crypto protocol.
这真是太酷了，对吧？
It's just like, how how cool?
就是把金融世界融合在一起，变成我们一直设想的样子。
You know, just a melding of the financial worlds into kind of what we've always envisioned.
就像加密货币和金融之间不会再有任何界限或划分。
It's like there won't be any delineation or lines drawn between crypto and finance.
一切都融为一体了。
It's all kind of meshing together as one.
我很好奇你对这个有什么看法。
And I'm I'm curious to kind of get your thoughts on that.
你觉得这个趋势会持续升温吗，还是说加密货币还是会有点边缘化？而且就像你说的，既然《清晰法案》没通过，也许SEC和CFTC能把事情理顺一些。
Do do you kind of foresee, you know, this trend galvanizing, or do you continue to see, you know, crypto being, you know, maybe a little bit on the outskirts and since Clarity Act isn't passing, like you said, maybe SEC, CFTC are going to be able to get some ducks in a row.
但你觉得这种融合会继续下去吗？
But do you see this melding continuing?
是的，肯定会。
Yeah, definitely.
我们看到很多传统券商已经在向24小时交易靠拢，而区块链是实现这一目标的更高效方式。
We're seeing a lot of the traditional brokerages lean towards 20 fourseven trading anyways, and blockchains are more efficient ways of doing that.
现在他们可能会做到24小时5天，或者类似这样。
Now they're doing more like potentially 20 fourfive or whatnot.
是的，对于代币化股票来说，区块链是更好的方式。
But yeah, blockchains are better ways to do that for tokenized stocks.
随着收益投资者重新构建基差交易，我们自然会看到更多代币化股票。
We are going to just naturally see more tokenized stocks as yield investors recreate the basis trade.
这是比特币ETF资金流入如此之多的原因之一，因为人们做多比特币，做空永续合约和期货，赚取资金费率。
That is one of the reasons why there was so much in the way of Bitcoin ETF inflows, because folks were long Bitcoin, short perps and futures and earning those funding rates.
他们会对代币化股票做同样的事情，但更有利可图。
They are going to do the same thing with tokenized stocks, but more profitable.
Athena已经宣布他们打算这样做。
Athena has already announced that they intend to do that.
所以这将推动链上代币化股票的增长。
So that will grow the tokenized stocks on chain.
而且，把这个看作代币化股票扩张的催化剂也挺有意思的，但迷因币交易不会消失。
And then also, it is funny to think of this as a catalyst for expansion of tokenized stocks, but meme coin trading is not going anywhere.
这就像是社交交易的1.0版本，我们看到迷因币和代币化股票的结合，感觉像是一种持久的叙事创新，如果你愿意这么叫的话，散户投资者在交易时，如果和那种感觉更相关的资产配对，会更有趣。
It's just like V1 of social trading, and the pairing that we're seeing of meme coins with tokenized stocks feels like a durable narrative innovation, if you want to call it that, where it's just more fun for retail investors to trade when it is paired with that asset where it feels more related.
还有反射代币，如果交易有税，那部分税会返还给你，以其他资产的形式产生收益。
Also, the reflection tokens where if there is a tax on trading, that tax then goes back to give you yield in the other assets.
我们在Solana上看到的一个例子是Zcat和Zcash。
One example that we see on Solana is Zcat with Zcash.
然后还有一个，虽然不是代币化股票，但我认为这个概念适用，有3%的税，其中大部分会以Zcash的形式给Zcash持有者带来收益，现在的年化收益率是200%。
And then there's a it's not a tokenized stock, but I think the concept applies where there's a 3% tax and a majority of that then gives Zcash holders yield in Zcash, which is now 200% APY.
所以现在创造出了更多玩法，这也可能扩大代币化股票池。
So there's a lot more games that are being created, and that could also grow the tokenized stock pool.
嗯，跟我说说Zcash那个事情吧。
Well, I mean, tell me a little bit more about the Zcash thing.
我稍微看到过一些。
I've seen a little bit of it.
所以它就是一个迷因币，基本上你持有它就能赚到Zcash？
So it's just a meme coin that basically if you hold it, you earn Zcash?
基本上就是这样。
Essentially that.
不错。
Nice.
你持有这个资产。
You hold the asset.
交易费用比一般的交易费用高很多。
There are trading fees that are much higher than typical trading fees.
这些交易费用全部或者大部分都会用来买Zcash，而且不需要你做什么申领操作，只要你持有超过一个很小的金额，比如20美元，就会自动分发给代币持有者。
All of those or most of those trading fees are then used to buy Zcash and there is no claim function or anything you need to do, just auto distributes it to token holders as long as you own more than some de minimis amount like $20.
这个真的很有意思。
Of that is really interesting one.
当然，这一切都取决于交易量能不能保持在高位，因为如果交易量下降，就没有费用可以转换成Zcash来支付给人们了。
Of course, all of this hinges on trading volume remaining high because if trading volume falls off, then there is no fees to turn into Zcash to then pay people.
现在市面上已经出现了很多这种代币，比如有个叫“per”的 meme 币，推出后就能给你带来收益和热度。
There is a lot of these that have come around like there is a per meme coin that launched that then gives you yields and hype.
还有一个叫“Uber”的，它是把 XRP 打包起来，和 Uber 的 meme 币配对，不是 Uber 的股票。
There is another one called Uber, where it is wrapped XRP matched with the Uber meme coin, not Uber stock.
所以，这个想法的意思是，Uber 司机喜欢持有瑞波币。
So, the idea is like Uber drivers love to own Ripple.
所以，你持有 Uber meme 币就能赚取收益和瑞波币。
So you earn yield and Ripple by owning the Uber meme.
有些人在这方面还挺有创意的。
Few people have gotten pretty creative with these.
这太搞笑了。
That is hilarious.
现在大家都在谈论人工智能，但真正重要的人工智能是那种能帮你节省时间、帮你做出明智决策、减轻你工作负担的。
Everybody is talking about AI right now, but the AI that actually matters is the kind that saves you time, helps you make smart decisions, and takes work off your plate.
如果你在经营电商业务，物流就是那种要么让你顺利运转，要么让你完全停滞的事情。
And if you're running an e commerce business, shipping is one of those things that can either keep you moving or completely slow you down.
所以我喜欢ShipStation。
That's why I like ShipStation.
它是一个为电商企业打造的一站式订单履行平台，其AI基于全球数十亿件包裹的几十年真实运输数据训练而成。
It's an end to end order fulfillment platform built for e commerce businesses, and its AI is trained on decades of real shipping data from billions of shipments across the world.
所以，不用再手忙脚乱地管理各种工具，ShipStation能帮你掌控全局。
So instead of juggling a bunch of different tools, ShipStation helps you stay in control.
它能在库存不足时提醒你，推荐最佳承运商和费率，自动化任务，并帮助你在成长过程中节省时间。
It can alert you when your stock is low, recommend the best carrier selections and rates, automate tasks, and help you save time as you grow.
你还能获得跨销售渠道的库存同步、自动比价、品牌化退货门户，以及会计和CRM软件的集成，全部集中在一个地方。
You also get inventory syncing across sales channels, automatic rate shopping, a branded returns portal, and integrations with accounting and CRM software all in one place.
如果我在经营电商店铺，这正是我想要的那种工具。
If I were running an e commerce store, this is exactly the kind of tool I'd want.
因为一旦订单开始涌入，你肯定不希望物流成为拖后腿的环节。
Because once the orders start coming in, you don't want shipping to be the thing that's holding you back.
超过100万家商家已经信任ShipStation来优化和扩展他们的物流。
Over 1,000,000 businesses have trusted ShipStation to optimize and scale their shipping.
你越早切换，就能越早开始节省时间和金钱。
The sooner you switch, the sooner you start saving time and money.
今天就注册ShipStation，在shipstation.com使用优惠码crypto，即可享受六十天免费。
Get started with ShipStation today and get sixty days free at shipstation.com with code crypto.
网址是shipstation.com，优惠码是crypto。
That's shipstation.com, code crypto.
Shipstation.com，优惠码crypto。
Shipstation.com, code crypto.
税费和费用另计。
Taxes and fees apply.
那太好了。
That is so good.
好吧，你看。
Well, look.
趁你在这儿，我想确保我们聊一聊最近搬到Rockaway的事，还有公司的一些情况，以及那笔交易。
While we have you, I wanna make sure that we cover, kind of the the recent transition into Rockaway and a little bit about the firm, and the transaction.
你知道，他们是怎么，你跟他们是怎么走到一起的？
You know, how did they, how did you and them get together?
是什么促成的？
What went into it?
有什么变化？
What changes?
什么保持不变？
What stays the same?
给我们讲讲吧。
Just catch us up.
其实我跟Rockaway X团队认识很久了。
So I've actually known the Rockaway X team for a really long time.
从2020年，我在Quince刚开始的时候，就认识那边的创始人Victor了。
Known Victor, the founder founder there from 2020, from the beginning of my time at Quince.
有意思。
Fun.
梅里克负责风投这边，山姆负责增长这边，到现在已经五年了。
Merrick on the venture side and Sam on the growth side for five years at this point.
他们想推出一项流动性策略。
They are looking to launch a liquid strategy.
今年早些时候我们开始谈，我在想，随着我们进入我认为非常强劲的市场，什么能让基金和我的投资者基础在未来获得最大的成功。
We started talking earlier this year, and I was thinking back to what positions the fund and my investor base for the most success going forward as we enter what I believe is a really strong market going forward.
这意味着更多的研究资源、更大的资本基础、更广泛的运营执行团队、多年建立起来的强大网络，以及一个机构化的平台，拥有两只风投基金和市场中性基金的经验，还有所有这些工程金库和验证者基础设施。
And that meant more research resources, larger capital base, a broader team on operations execution, an incredible network that is built over the years, an institutional platform where you have the learnings of two venture funds, market neutral fund, as well as all of this engineering vault, validator infrastructure.
感觉真的是非常非常契合。
And it felt like just a really, really strong fit.
所以我们最终走到了一起。
So we ended up coming together.
他们收购了Relayer Capital。
They acquired Relayer Capital.
以前是Relayer的，现在成了Rockaway X的旗舰流动性基金，我非常兴奋能领导这个策略，并和Rockaway X团队一起踏上这段旅程。
What was formerly Relayer is now the flagship liquid fund for Rockaway X and incredibly excited to be leading this strategy and on the the journey with the the Rockaway X team.
当然。
Absolutely.
那在投资或策略方面，有什么变化吗？
And in terms of the investments or the strategy, does anything change?
我知道你现在团队大得多，后台也更庞大，可能还有更多研究分析师和交易员。
I know you have now a much larger team, bigger back office, maybe some more research analysts, maybe some more traders.
从一个小团队变成一个大团队，这怎么影响你的工作方式？
How does it kind of change things going from a small shop to now a very big shop?
策略或投资理念完全没变。
It doesn't change the strategy or thesis at all.
只是给了我更多资源、更多能力，以及更广泛的专业知识。
It just gives me more resources, more capabilities, broader expertise.
我在考虑我的多空策略时，和市场中性团队合作，他们在这方面非常强。
As I think about my long short strategy, working with the market neutral team, that is really strong there.
我在思考市场趋势以及早期项目的情况时，会和风险投资团队合作。
As I think about what are the trends that are happening and what we are seeing on the early stage side of the market, working with the venture team.
所以就是更多的跨团队合作。
So just a lot more cross collaboration.
至于策略和投资理念，没有任何改变，这很棒，因为我觉得这套策略和理念当初就定得很好，今年已经收获了不少成果，比如早期投资了Hype、Venice、Zcash和Grass Network等项目。
As far as strategy and thesis, nothing is changing, which is the great part because I think that strategy and that thesis was really well set up and has borne a lot of fruit this year with some of the early investments in Hype and Venice and Zcash and Grass Network and others.
但有了这些额外的资源，肯定会让它如虎添翼。
But having all of this additional stuff is going to really turbocharge it.
在早期投资这块，通常和我们平时聊的传统山寨币或主流项目有点不一样。
So on the early side, that tends to always be a little bit different from, like, traditional altcoins or mainstream projects that we talk about.
现在那边有什么不同？
What is different over there right now?
我想，嗯，我就随便问问，纯粹是好奇。
I I guess, yeah, I guess I'll leave it pretty open, but I'm just curious.
比如，你在早期投资领域看到的东西是不是也一样，还是说还是那些代币化、稳定币、隐私或AI之类的？
Like, are you seeing the same things on the early side of the investment area of things, or is it still just like it's all about tokenization or stablecoins or privacy or AI?
你看到了什么？
What are you seeing?
是的，现在有更多传统金融科技公司开始利用稳定币和代币化。
Yeah, there are a lot more traditional fintech businesses leveraging stablecoins and tokenization.
很多新型银行或新型券商产品也在做类似的事情。
A lot of neobank or neo brokerage products trying to do the same thing.
代币化基础设施通常处于更后期阶段，很多围绕社交交易。
The tokenization infrastructure is usually a little bit later stage, a lot around social trading.
比如像Pump、Fomo这类项目。
So think Pump, Fomo, etc.
这类业务。
Type businesses.
还有很多围绕预测市场和体育博彩，以及为使用预测市场创造新颖的界面。
A lot around prediction markets and sports betting and creating novel interfaces for using prediction markets.
但总的来说，我觉得现在更注重应用层，而不是像过去那样侧重基础设施，这是好事，因为我觉得很多基础设施已经建好了。
But overall, I would say it is just a much deeper focus on applications versus infrastructure we have seen in the past, which is a good thing because I think a lot of the infrastructure has been built.
我们不一定需要重新发明轮子，再搞出100多个L1和L2。
We do not necessarily need to reinvent the wheel and have 100 more L1s and L2s.
我同意你的看法。
I would agree with you there.
之前几轮周期里，我最烦的就是新项目一上线。
That was one of my pet peeves from the prior cycles is a new project would launch.
要么是Layer 1，要么是Layer 2，然后他们就说，各位，听好了。
It'd be a layer one or layer two, and they'd say, guys, listen.
这就是我们的卖点。
Here's the pitch.
我们快1%。
We are 1% faster.
我们快50%。
We are 50% faster.
我们便宜50%。
We're 50% cheaper.
你知道
You know
你知道的，就是这样。
how it goes.
要么更快，要么更便宜，这就是整个卖点。
It's either you're faster, you're cheaper, and that was, like, the whole pitch.
然后就像，好吧。
And it's like, alright.
那有什么不同呢？
Well, like, what's different?
任何人都能扩展区块链，但也就这样了。
Like, anyone can scale a blockchain, but that was just it.
就像又一个一层网络，又一个，又一个，一个接一个。
It was like another layer one, another one, another one, and one after another.
所以我完全同意你的看法。
So I couldn't agree with you more there.
我有个疑问是关于扩展的，也许传统金融如何与这个互动，因为关于传统金融方面的关注太多了。
One of the things I have questions about is about scaling maybe the way that traditional finance interacts with this because there has been so much attention about the traditional side of finance.
不管是银行、对冲基金、资产管理公司还是其他什么，其实都不重要。
It doesn't matter if it's, you know, banks or hedge funds or these asset managers or whatever it is.
他们显然对区块链整体非常感兴趣，而且也很关注随之而来的加密货币。
They clearly have a lot of interest, and they're giving a lot of attention towards blockchain as a whole and with association with that, you know, cryptos coming right alongside it.
有没有办法让这些早期项目帮助弥合这个差距、简化流程，或者消除进入的门槛？
Is there a way where these early projects can help bridge that gap or smooth out the process or remove the barriers to entry?
还是你觉得我们不会从加密货币这边看到这种情况？
Or do you just think that that's not something that we're gonna see from the crypto side?
这种情况会由传统金融机构在内部自己来做、自己来建设？
That's something that we're gonna see these traditional financial players doing internally and building that out internally.
我觉得是多种因素结合的结果，但我觉得我们也会看到很多合作。
I think it's a combination of things, but I think we'll also see a lot of partnerships.
有一件很有意思的事，也是我期待今年晚些时候看到的，就是LayerZero在做什么，以及他们的合作伙伴，比如Tether在机构但加密货币这边，还有Citadel，以及他们合作的一些主要大宗商品和证券交易所，一起建立一个永续交易平台，他们称之为Atlas。
One thing that is interesting and I'm looking forward to later this year is what LayerZero is doing and the partners that they have, whether it's, I guess, Tethers on the institutional but crypto side of things, Citadel and then some of the major commodity and stock exchange that they're partnered with to build out a perpetual trading platform, which they have called Atlas.
我觉得那是一个非常有趣的模板。
I think that is a really interesting template.
我们看看它上线后表现如何。
We will see how that does when it goes live.
虽然我觉得他们团队很棒，但确实想预测一下能否成功。
Do want to predict success, although I think they are a really good team.
我对他们能取得的成就抱有很高的期望。
I have high hopes for what they can achieve.
但我觉得那是一个有趣的模式，一些领先的应用和基础设施构建者与一些更注重创新的传统玩家合作，共同打造东西。
But think that's an interesting template where you have some of the leading applications and infrastructure builders partnering with some of the more innovation focused traditional players to build something together.
没错。
No.
你说得太好了。
I couldn't have said it better.
那么，在结束之前，你接下来期待哪些催化剂呢？
So what are some of the next catalysts that you're looking forward to here, to close out?
听起来有点疯狂，但你知道吗，我们已经快结束第三季度，进入第四季度了。
It's crazy to to hear, but, you know, we're already closing out q three headed into q four.
接下来有什么值得关注的？
What's on the horizon?
所以有加密货币相关的事情，但还有宏观经济。
So there's crypto specific things, but then also macro.
宏观经济一直是这次加密货币反弹的重要推动力，不能太快把它放到一边。
Macro has been a really big driver of this rebound crypto, don't want push that off to the side too quickly.
接下来几天，等这个节目播出的时候，可能已经过去了，就是PPI和CPI数据。
We have in the next couple of days, and by the time this airs, it will be probably just behind us, is PPI and CPI.
所以这周的一些通胀数据，将影响美联储在16号的决定，是加息还是保持不变。
So some of the inflation data this week, and that is going to inform the Fed's decision on the sixteenth about whether they hike rates or keep them unchanged.
目前市场认为加息的可能性是58%，不变的可能性是42%，如果数据符合预期，到那时候可能就变成五五开了。
Right now, the market is saying like 58% likelihood of a hike, 42% likelihood of no change, assuming things are in line there, probably ends up being about fiftyfifty going into the event.
我不是宏观经济专家。
I am no macro expert.
有很多人比我花更多时间研究这个，但我实际上倾向于美联储不太可能加息。
There are people that spend a lot more time on this than me, but I am actually leaning towards it being less likely that the Fed hikes.
如果是这样的话，我觉得比特币会像几周前财政部发布那个公告时一样，出现一波非常强劲的上涨。
If that is the case, I think we can see a really strong move in Bitcoin like we saw when the Treasury made that announcement a couple of weeks ago.
所以那会是一个非常关键的节点。
So that will be a pretty pivotal moment.
当然，11月的选举也会是一个关键节点。
Elections, of course, are going to be a pivotal moment in November.
总体来看，在监管方面，我们看到很多关于创新豁免的讨论，这些豁免可能很快就会出台，从而大大推动代币化股票的发展。
Overall, on the regulatory side, we're seeing a lot of discussion around some of these innovation exemptions that could come pretty quickly, which would turbocharge tokenized stocks.
我觉得永续合约市场还在继续增长，我们看到Hyperliquid、Leidr、Variational以及很多领先的永续合约平台在代币化股票——或者说不是真正的代币化，而是他们自己的股票、大宗商品、指数和永续合约版本——上的表现，持仓量也在持续增加。
Think Perps markets are continuing to grow and we're seeing what Hyperliquid and Leidr and Variational and a lot of the leading Perps platforms do on the tokenized stock or not really tokenized, but their version of stock commodities, indices and perk form continue to grow and open interest there.
这些就是我最关注的主要方面。
Those are really the main things I am looking at.
在AI方面，更多是消费者应用或者更广泛的基础设施，比如Venice或GRASS。
On the AI side, it is more consumer application or broader infrastructure, things like Venice or GRASS.
但我关注的是，那些基本面最强的公司和团队，他们的基本面能否继续保持这种势头？
But what I'm looking at to see is just can the companies and the teams with the strongest fundamentals, can those fundamentals continue their momentum?
如果是这样的话，而且整体市场环境有利，我觉得我们能看到一波不错的延续行情。
And if that's the case and there's a conducive environment in the market overall, I think we can see some really nice continuation.
今年让我印象最深的一件事就是比特币、整个加密货币市场和传统金融市场之间的分化，因为它们从来没有真正完全同步过。
One of the things that really stood out to me this year was the divergence between Bitcoin and the general crypto market and the traditional financial markets because they've never really had perfect parity.
对吧？
Right?
但有时候同步的程度会更高一些。
But sometimes you'd have it more than than others.
但你也看到了，这种同步性真的出现了很大的分化，加密货币在独立运行，比特币也在独立运行。
But you've seen that parity really, really diverge, where crypto's acting independently and Bitcoin's acting independently.
而且现在有太多不同的催化剂在发生。
And there are so many different catalysts happening.
我刚才提到了，我是说，抱歉。
I mentioned I mean, sorry.
你提到了PPI、CPI。
You mentioned PPI, CPI.
下周我们会有关于明确性的讨论和投票。
We have that clarity talk and vote next week.
你提到了美联储即将做出利率决定。
You talked about the Fed coming to an interest rate decision.
我觉得日本央行那边也有新闻，他们打算怎么处理整个套利交易以及他们那边的情况。
I think there's there's news around the Bank of Japan and what they're gonna do with the whole carry trade and and their situation over there.
然后还有中期选举，真是一件接一件。
Then you have midterms, and it's just like one thing after another.
我觉得大家都在试图权衡，到底该先关注哪个方向。
And I think people are trying to balance, like, where do we even begin to turn our head towards?
是这个方向还是那个方向？
Is it is it this direction or that one?
或者在可选的十个选项里，哪个对加密货币影响最大？
Or out of the 10 options that are available, what impacts crypto the most?
因为再说一次，这和传统股票市场的表现存在分歧。
Because, again, there's this divergence from the way that the traditional equities have performed.
所以我想问，你是怎么权衡所有这些因素的？
So I guess where how do you weight all of that?
因为我觉得这是一个不断变化的动态，情况确实在变，而且不是一成不变的。
Because I'm I think it's a changing dynamic where it it does change, and it's not always the same.
但你又是怎么开始把一些传统的东西、技术面、基本面结合起来，然后综合到一起的呢？
But how do you begin to weigh some of the traditional stuff with the technicals, with the fundamentals and put it all together?
是的，这非常有意思。
Yeah, it's very interesting.
我觉得这只是加密货币市场演变的一部分，现在它比以往任何时候都更复杂，与更广泛的市场、其他资产类别以及更宏观的经济的联系也更深了。
I think this is just part of how crypto markets have evolved, where there's a lot more complexity and the connections are a lot deeper with broader markets and other asset classes and broader macro than it has ever been.
在2017年，它完全生活在自己的世界里。
In 2017, it lived entirely in its own world.
在之前的周期里，它有一点重叠。
In the prior cycles, it overlapped a little bit.
2022年，加密货币抛售的一个主要原因是我们正处于加息周期中。
2022, one of the big reasons why crypto sold off was because of the rate hike cycle that we were in.
我觉得这正是这个资产类别成熟的一部分，它变得更加互联，你需要具备跨学科的技能才能投资加密货币，理解正在发生的事情以及未来的走向。
I think this is just part of the maturation of the asset class that it becomes more interconnected and you need to have an interdisciplinary skill set to be able to invest in crypto and understand what's happening and where things are headed.
确实如此。
Truly.
说得太好了，尤其是加密货币这么全球化。
Couldn't have said it better, especially with crypto being, so global.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，你几乎必须成为不同文化等方面的专家。
I mean, you almost have to get to be, an expert on on on different cultures and everything like that.
比如说，在韩国，他们以前管这个叫“泡菜溢价”。
Like, for instance, in Korea, like, things they used to call it the kimchi premium.
他们就是会大量使用杠杆和赌博，我见过一些疯狂的数据，关于多少比例的人口在参与赌博。
And, they just, you know, would use so much leverage and gamble, and I saw just, like, crazy stats about how much percentage of the population would would be gambling.
然后就在几周前，政府出手打压了，说要使用杠杆或在经纪账户上交易，你得先上完一个政府认可的课程，教你怎么不把钱亏光。
And then just a few weeks ago, the the government, you know, came and smacked it down and said in order to, use leverage or trade on a brokerage account or something, you need to, like, go through a course, like a a government sanctioned how to not lose my shirt course.
这其实是一件挺负责任的事情。
Is actually a pretty responsible thing to do.
很高兴看到这一点。
It's nice to see.
我是说，嘿。
I mean, hey.
对吧？
Right?
我是说，你不想看到你的公民，你知道，他们的净资产和家庭储蓄流到别的国家去。
I mean, you don't you don't wanna see your, you know, your citizens re you know, their their net worth and their their family savings go to a different country.
对吧？
Right?
所以就是这样，是的。
And so it's just yeah.
这倒是个挺有趣的细节。
It's kind of a funny funny note there.
不过，是的。
But yeah.
我的意思是，我……
I mean I
我不知道韩国以前是什么样子的。
I don't know what it looked like in Korea before.
也许以前就是这样，但在美国，要开通期权交易，你得先通过一个测试。
Maybe this was already the case, but to be enabled for options trading in The US, you have to take a test.
这个测试不是特别复杂，但券商确实会问你一堆问题。
It's not a very complicated test, but the brokerage asks you a bunch of different questions.
我觉得投资者不应该被限制接触金融产品，但同时，人们明白自己在做什么也很重要。
I think investors shouldn't be gated from accessing financial products, but at the same time, it's important that people understand what they're doing.
对。
No.
完全同意。
Couldn't agree more.
对，这对所有正在听的朋友来说都很重要。
And, yeah, it's important for everybody who who's out there who's listening.
你知道的，在接触加密货币之前，一定要确保自己清楚自己在做什么。可以先模拟交易，或者多听听播客、先学习一下相关知识，诸如此类。
You know, make sure that you know what you're doing before you get into crypto, whether that's paper trading first or listening to more podcasts and getting educated first or something like that.
别闭着眼睛乱投。
Don't just go shooting blindly.
不过我们知道，所有正在收听的朋友们，也就是 Crypt Nation 里这些优秀可爱的公民们，都是负责任的，所以我们就让你们自己做决定啦。
But we know everybody who's listening, all you good wonderful citizens of Crypt Nation, are responsible, And so we let you make your own decisions.
这正是加密货币最棒的地方。
That's the great thing about crypto.
说到这个跨界联动，还有个挺有意思的点。往前看个两三年，那时候加密货币基本上就是一堆代币。
Well, one other thing on this crossover that's pretty cool is if you looked a couple of years back, crypto was just tokens.
后来有了Coinbase的股票，接着Robinhood也开始加大在加密货币交易上的布局，再后来Circle也上市了。
And then you had Coinbase stock, and then Robinhood started trading more with crypto, and then you had Circle IPO.
但现在，不管一家公司和加密货币的关联度是满分十分里的十分还是四分，只要跟它沾点边，就有几十只股票——按我的估计，甚至有一百到两百只股票的策略和基本盘，都在某种程度上被加密货币所驱动。
But now, depending on how related it is to crypto, whether it's like a 10 out of 10 or a four out of 10, but still related to crypto in some way, you have dozens or in my estimation, as much as 100 to 200 stocks that a meaningful part of their strategy and fundamentals are driven by crypto in one way or another.
这不过是表达观点的另一种方式，挺酷的。
That's just another way to express the view, which is pretty cool.
对。
No.
说得很好。
It's a great point.
天哪，我们聊一整天都聊不完，奥斯汀。
Man, we could go all day, Austin.
有太多话题可以聊了。
There's so much to talk about.
再说，我们下个季度或者什么时候方便，再请你回来。
Again, we'll have you back next quarter or whenever works for our schedules.
大家去哪里可以了解更多关于你的经历呢？
Where can people find out more about your journey?
你知道，我们会在节目说明里放一些链接。
You know, we'll put some links in the show notes.
X，你知道，基金网站之类的。
X, you know, fund website, anything like that.
我觉得X可能是最好的方式。
I'd say X is probably the best way.
我在X上实时分享很多我的观点，我差点说成加密推特了。
I share a lot of my theses in real time on crypto Twitter, I was about to say, but on X.
以前叫加密推特。
Formerly known as crypto Twitter.
对，没错。
Yeah, exactly.
我的账号就是AustinBarack。
My handle is just AustinBarack.
就是我的名字。
It's my name.
当然，这不是投资建议，只是我个人的想法，让我的观点接受检验。不过，这可能是了解我最新想法和关注点最好的方式。
Obviously, of that's financial advice and just me thinking out loud and having my thesis stress tested But yeah, that's probably the best way to get the latest on what I'm thinking and what I'm looking at.
我很喜欢。
I love it.
我的意思是，你知道，就以此作为结尾吧，我很好奇你有没有公开说过，嘿，我在考虑这个。
I mean, you know, just to end on this note, you know, I'm curious if you ever put a note out there to the public, hey, I'm thinking about this.
你知道，这是倍数。
You know, this is the multiple.
这是目标。
This is the target.
有没有人突然出现，特别聪明，然后直接把它拆解，给你一个你没想到的不同观点？
Does anybody ever just come in, they're super sharp and they just shred it up and give you a different viewpoint that you maybe didn't see?
还是大家都差不多，竖起大拇指，喜欢，继续看涨？
Or is everybody pretty much like, thumbs up, love it, keep bull posting?
嗯，确实有很多后者，因为人们喜欢别人同意他们，尤其是当他们持有那个资产的时候。
Well, there there is a lot of the latter because people like when you agree with them, especially if they own that asset.
不过另一方面，X的好处是，有很多人喜欢跟你唱反调，告诉你为什么你错了，只要你脸皮厚，这很好，因为它能让你思考，也许我错了吗？
However, on the other hand, the nice thing about X is there's a lot of people that love to disagree with you and tell you why you're wrong, as long as you have a thick skin is great because it allows you to think it's like, maybe am I wrong?
我是不是应该换个角度想？
Should I be thinking about it differently?
什么情况会让我的观点不成立？
What invalidates my thesis?
有时候还会提出一些你可能没想到的点。
And sometimes brings up things that you might not have considered.
所以虽然支持的声音很多，但反对的声音可能更有用。
So while there is a lot of support, the other side is maybe more useful either.
说得好。
Love it.
完全同意。
Couldn't agree more.
太棒了。
Awesome.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
大家好，感谢大家收听本期《Crypto 101》播客。
Everybody, thank you for joining us on another episode of the Crypto one zero one podcast.
记得查看节目笔记。
Hit the show notes.
点赞、订阅，这些都可以。
Like, subscribe, anything like that.
我们很感激你们。
We appreciate you.
下周同一时间、同一地点，记得回来。
Come back same time, same place next week.
我们还会为你们带来另一位很棒的嘉宾。
We'll have yet another great guest for you.
大家保重。
Take care, everyone.
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