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别再等别人批准你才开始创业了。
Stop waiting for permission to start your business.
你的想法离实现只差一步，而Shopify能让这一切变得简单。
Your idea is one step away, and Shopify can make it easy to make it happen.
我们在Crypto one zero one就是这么做的，用Shopify卖我们的书，之后的事情就顺理成章了。
That's what we did at Crypto one zero one and use Shopify to sell our book, and the rest is history.
我喜欢Shopify的一点是，它把创业中最让人害怕的部分去掉了。
The thing I like about Shopify is it takes the scary part out of starting.
你不需要自己摸索建网站、支付、结账、库存这些琐碎的事情，这些往往在还没开始前就把人吓退了。
You're not just sitting there trying to figure out a website, payments, checkout, inventory, all these little things that stop people before they even launch.
说到建网店，我觉得最大的障碍就是麻烦。
When I think about building a storefront, the biggest thing is friction.
你希望顾客一进你的页面，就喜欢上你的产品，然后能顺利下单，不会卡住。
You want someone to land on your page, like what you're selling, and be able to buy without getting stuck.
这正是Shopify的强项。
That's where Shopify is huge.
Shopify的结账系统设计得很贴心，能帮助更多顾客完成购买，而且他们下次再来时，信息都已经自动保存好了。
Shopify checkout is built to help more customers finish their purchase, and when they come back, their details are already saved.
一键就能搞定。
One tap and they're done.
最棒的是，Shopify支撑着全球数百万家企业，从你熟悉的大品牌，比如美泰和Gymshark，到刚刚起步的小生意，都在用。
The cool part is Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from huge brands that you know, like Mattel and Gymshark to small businesses just getting started.
所以不管你是想打造下一个大品牌，还是推出你的第一个产品，基础设施都已经准备好了。
So whether you're building the next big brand or launching your first product, the infrastructure is already there.
这部分搞定了，你就能专注于真正重要的事情：打造品牌、吸引关注、把顾客带到你的店铺，让生意不断成长。
Once that part is handled, you can focus on the real work, building the brand, getting attention, and bringing people to your storefront so the business can grow.
当有人真正下单的那一刻，你的想法就变成了现实。
That moment when someone actually buys, that's when the idea becomes real.
有了Shopify，你的想法和真正的生意之间没有任何障碍，所以放手去干吧。
With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business, so go make it one.
今天就到shopify.com/crypto10one开始你的免费试用吧。
Start your free trial today at shopify.com/crypto10one.
这是shopify.com/crypto10one的免费试用。
That's a free trial at shopify.com/crypto10one.
你知道吗，当你翻衣柜找衣服的时候，总有一些衣服是你反复拿起来穿的。
You know, when you look in your closet for clothes, we always have those pieces that you keep grabbing for and wearing on repeat.
那件百搭的毛衣，那条完美的裤子，或者那件你总是第一个拿起的T恤。
The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants or that tee you somehow always reach for first.
这些就是让穿衣变得轻松的单品，而这正是Quince最擅长的。
Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy and that's what Quince does best.
Quince专注于高品质的衣橱必备单品，采用优质材料，比如100%蒙古羊绒、有机棉和美利奴羊毛。
Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool.
这些款式经典、百搭，设计成你每天都会依赖的可靠单品。
The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become dependable pieces you reach for every day.
各位，夏天结束了，秋天马上就到了，而且秋天是我一年中最喜欢的穿衣季节，因为九月初天气还暖和的时候，你还能穿那些轻薄、透气、合身的T恤和轻便的裤子，但天气开始转凉，你需要一些毛衣，需要提升你的穿搭，重新整理你的衣柜，迎接深秋和初冬。
Guys, summer is over and fall is right around the corner, and it's my favorite time of year for clothes in the fall because you still get some of that light, breathable, fitted tees and light pants that you want to wear when it's early September and still warm, but it starts to transition into that colder weather where you're going to need some sweaters, you're going to need to up your game and reorganize your closet as we transition into the late fall early winter.
Quince是你买衣服的首选之地。
Quince is your place to go for all things clothes.
我特别喜欢他们的亚麻制品。
I love their linens.
整个夏天我们都在聊这个。
We talked about it all summer.
整个夏天在希腊穿的都是TiVo的亚麻衣服，但现在秋天来了，我们可能想要一些T恤和裤子。
It was TiVo linens out in Greece all summer long, but now as we head into the fall, we're looking for maybe some more T shirts, some pants.
然后等天气一转凉，我回北方过圣诞假期的时候，肯定会买他们家的100%蒙古羊绒毛衣，我特别特别喜欢。
And then again, once the weather turns and I go up north for the Christmas holiday season, I'll definitely be doing their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters that I love so very much.
朋友们，Quince真的超棒。
Guys, Quince is amazing.
他们的网站也特别好用。
The website is awesome.
我之前就说过。
I've talked about it before.
他们不只是卖衣服。
It's not just clothing.
Quince 对他们做的每一样东西都采用同样的理念。
Quince brings the same approach to everything they make.
从酒店品质的床品和浴室用品，到厨房必需品和精心设计的家具。
From hotel quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials and thoughtfully designed furniture.
他们为日常生活打造设计精良的产品。
They make well designed pieces for everyday living.
我经常提到这一点。
I talk about all the time.
他们做每件事都做得很好。
They do everything the right way.
在 Quince 找到你秋季的新宠吧。
Find your next fall favorites at Quince.
下载 Quince 应用，享受应用专属优惠，或者访问 quince.com/crypto10one。
Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com/crypto10one.
享受免费配送和365天退货服务，现在加拿大和英国也支持了。
Get free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada and The UK too.
网址是 q u i n c e 点 com 斜杠 crypto 一零一。
That's q u I n c e dot com slash crypto one zero one.
好了，各位。
Alright, everybody.
欢迎回到 Crypto 一零一播客，又一期干货满满、超高质量的节目。
Welcome back to another action packed super high caliber episode here of the Crypto one zero one podcast.
我是主持人之一，布莱斯·保罗。
I'm your cohost, Bryce Paul.
和往常一样，和我一起的是远在另一头的搭档，布伦丹·维曼先生。
As always, joined by my good compadre across the country, mister Brendan Viehman.
布伦丹，最近怎么样？
Brendan, how goes it?
挺好的。
It goes well.
今天特别好。
It goes extra well here today.
牛市正在狂奔，所以现在是进入加密货币的好时机，Bryce。
The bulls are on stampede, so what a time to be here in crypto, Bryce.
绿色蜡烛等于开心的Brendan。
Green candles equals happy Brendan.
你是个简单的人。
You're a simple man.
你以后会是个好丈夫的。
You'll you'll make a great husband one day.
只要市场是牛市，你就会一直这么开心。
All all she needs is a bull market, and you'll just be chipper as ever.
不。
No.
我们今天非常高兴能请到一位很棒的嘉宾，Reid Cuming，他是Superstate的联合创始人，最近也是Ground的联合创始人，Ground是从Superstate分拆出来的。
We're we're really excited to have an awesome guest today, Reid Cuming, who's the cofounder of Superstate and more recently, the cofounder of Ground, which was spun out of Superstate.
所以这里有很多内容要聊。
So there's a lot to unpack here.
不过首先，Reid，欢迎来到Crypto one zero one播客。
But first, Reid, welcome to the Crypto one zero one podcast.
你最近怎么样？
And how the heck are you?
谢谢你的邀请。
Thank you for having me.
我挺好的。
Doing really great.
太好了。
Awesome.
在我们深入聊Ground之前，牛市是不是回来了？
So before we dive into Ground, so is the bull market back?
我不知道。
I don't know.
感觉有点牛市的气氛了。
It kinda feels a little, a little bull market vibes.
山寨币涨得很厉害。
Altcoins are going up big.
比特币你知道的，已经超过八万了。
Bitcoin's, you know, above 80 k.
你对这一切是怎么理解的？
How are you kinda making sense of all this?
我一般不太会去做什么预测，或者判断我们现在处在什么阶段。
I generally do not do not put too much, out there for, like, you know, predictions or where are we?
我觉得我们都经历过太多周期了，也说过很多次‘就是现在了’。
It's, I think we've all seen too many cycles and have, have said, this is it.
我们回来了。
We're we're back.
然后突然之间，又不行了。
And then all of a sudden, we're not back.
不过这是好事。
But it's good.
看到更多的热情重新回到这个系统和这个领域，真的很好。
It's really good to see, just more enthusiasm kind of coming back into the system, into the space.
我觉得有很多顺风因素，这对建设者来说又是一个巨大的利好。
I think there's a lot of tailwinds, and this is, like, another great tailwind, for the builders.
所以我对此很感激，但我也非常谨慎地乐观。
So I'm I'm I'm thankful for it, but I'm also very cautiously, optimistic.
这话说得像个真正的老手，一个在加密货币领域摸爬滚打多年、伤痕累累的人。
Spoken like a true veteran, somebody who, has way too many scars from building crypto over the years.
跟我们说说你在加密货币领域建设了多久吧。
Tell us a little bit about how long you've kind of been building in crypto.
我知道你也联合创立了Compound，那是一个非常棒的项目，已经存在很长时间了，可以说是流动性挖矿和DeFi收益农耕等事物的起源。
I know you cofounded, Compound as well, which is a, you know, an awesome, project, that's been around for a long time, kind of the birth of liquidity mining and DeFi yield farming and all that kind of stuff.
那就给我们简单介绍一下，用三十秒或一分钟的时间，说说你在加密货币领域的经历吧。
So give us just the high level, you know, thirty second, one minute version of of where you came from here in crypto.
当然可以。
Absolutely.
在进入加密货币领域之前，我在金融科技行业待了很多年，在Square、Stripe和Chime做产品。
So I spent many years in fintech before crypto building products at Square, Stripe, and Chime.
很早以前，我在Cash App做比特币相关业务的时候，算是稍微试了试水。
Kinda dipped my toes in a little bit with the Bitcoin build out at Cash App way back when.
在金融科技和银行系统里，我不得不面对那么多不透明和复杂的东西，所以当我接触到DeFi时，真的非常兴奋。
I got really excited by, you know, DeFi, after having to contend with so much opacity and complexity in the, fintech and banking system.
所以我对Compound特别感兴趣，就加入了团队，帮忙搭建了Compound的财务库，那个产品还获得了标普的评级，挺有意思的，它让企业财务部门也能用上那个协议的收益。
So I got really excited about Compound, joined the team, helped build out Compound treasury there, which was an, a product that actually got an S and P rating, which was fascinating for, making the yield of that protocol available to corporate treasuries.
但之后，我们一直在区块链技术的基础上不断迭代，链上金融比传统金融基础设施和系统要动态得多，也强大得多。
But after that, we just kept iterating on the underlying concepts of blockchain based technology, on chain finance being just, like, wildly more, dynamic, wildly more powerful than traditional rails, traditional systems.
Superstate就是那个理念的延伸，现在Ground也是。
And Superstate's been an iteration of that thesis, and now Ground is as well.
所以，我确实在这个领域认真耕耘了大概五六年了。
So I've really been, kind of building earnestly, in the space now for, gosh, like, five or six years.
太棒了。
Awesome.
那你觉得你更多是从技术那边来的吗，比如写代码，现在流行的那种“vibe coding”，或者用AI机器人？
And would you say that you come from it more on the technical side, like your coding, now vibe coding, or, you know, using the AI bots?
还是你更多是从商业角度出发？
Or are you kinda more from the business angle?
你大概站在哪一边？
Where would you kinda stand?
你知道，作为创始人，你得两者兼顾，但通常你会有个侧重点。
You know, as a founder, you kinda blend both, but you generally do want to spike.
我一般更侧重商业那边，比如怎么把这个东西变成一个产品？
I generally spike more on the kind of the business side, like how do we how do we mold this into a product?
怎么把它包装好？
How do we how do we actually package it well?
怎么去推广它？
How do we how do we market it?
怎么让目标用户真正用得上它？
How do we actually make it, accessible, to the audience that we wanna want wanna use it?
我在Ground的联合创始人兼CTO，确实是那个深入研究智能合约和Solidity，以及搭建系统的人。
My cofounder and CTO at Ground definitely is the one kind of digging into smart contracts and solidity and wiring up the systems.
有个搭档真好，这样我们可以分工合作，各个击破。
It's good to have a partner there so we can kind of divide and conquer.
这就是阴阳互补，对立面的平衡。
The yin and the yang, the balance of opposites.
每个好的搭档都需要这种平衡。
Every good duo needs that.
对，没错。
And Yes.
你看，Ground，我得先问一下。
Look, you know, Ground, I just gotta start.
这个名字是怎么来的？
Where the name come from?
它是什么意思？
What is it?
其实我一直很喜欢Ground这个名字，而且我一直有这个想法，有一天我要给公司取名叫Ground。
I've actually always liked the name Ground, and I kind of always had this idea of, I'm gonna name a company Ground one day.
就是这样。
There you go.
这个机会，对。
The opportunity yeah.
这个机会，嗯，正好就来了。
The opportunity kind of, yeah, developed for that.
我觉得Ground这个名字寓意很好，你知道，稳固、坚实、高效、肥沃，这些都是你想要的，尤其是金融基础设施。
I think Ground has great connotations, you know, solid, firm, productive, fertile, all these great things you want, particularly from financial infrastructure.
所以它真的很适合我们想为Ground打造的产品。
So it just really molded really well to the type of product we wanted to build for Ground.
那么用一句话概括Ground，它是什么？
So Ground in a phrase, like, what is this thing?
它是一个让稳定币现金管理变得极其简单的平台。
It is a platform that makes cash management of stablecoins incredibly simple.
所以你可以嵌入并访问各种链上功能和资源，而不必直接接触智能合约。
So you can embed and access a variety of on chain functions and resources without having to actually directly touch the smart contracts.
我们提供类似Stripe的API接口。
We provide a Stripe like API interface.
它高度可配置、灵活且透明，适用于新银行、新金融应用，或者像跨境资金流动、汇款、支付提供商这样的交易所，能够构建收益产品、财富产品、通过RWA、代币化资产、LST、借贷协议等实现收益计划，而无需费力维护与各种资源的集成，跨区块链协调，以及数据标准化。
It's highly configurable, flexible, and transparent to for neobanks, neofinance apps, or, you know, exchanges like cross border money movement, remittances, payments providers to be able to build yield products, wealth products, earning programs using RWAs, tokenized assets, LSTs, borrowed lending protocols, and more, but without having to go through the effort and, manage the overhead of maintaining integrations to a variety of these resources orchestrating across blockchains, normalizing the data.
所有这些都由我们在系统中处理。
We handle all of that in the system.
那么这是否适用于所有稳定币，还是你们只支持选定的，也许是流行的那些？
So will this work for any and all stablecoins, or are you just supporting selected ones, maybe popular ones?
你知道什么最拖慢团队进度吗？
You know what slows teams down more than anything?
并不总是人员预算或工具本身。
It's not always the headcount budget or even the tools themselves.
而是当工作方式只存在于某人的脑子里，从未真正被记录下来的时候。
It's when the way work gets done lives in someone's head and never actually gets documented.
然后有新同事加入，或者推出新平台，再或者有同事离职，突然大家做同一个流程的方式就都不一样了。
Then someone new joins, a new platform gets rolled out, or a teammate leaves, and suddenly everybody's doing the same process in a different way.
这正是今天的赞助商Scribe要解决的问题。
That's exactly the problem today's sponsor, Scribe, was built to solve.
Scribe是一个工作流AI平台，财富500强中有94%的公司都在使用它。
Scribe is a workflow AI platform trusted by 94% of the Fortune 500.
它能在工作流程发生时自动捕捉，并将其转化为分步文档，方便团队审阅和分享。
It captures workflows as they happen and turns them into step by step documentation your team can review and share.
你只需要像平时一样操作，Scribe会边做边生成指南，自动记录每一次点击、每一步和每个截图。
You just do the process like you normally would, and Scribe builds the guide as you go, capturing every click, step, and screenshot automatically.
因为我们团队是远程办公，我确实遇到过需要向同事多次解释同一个设置或流程的情况，总觉得这些本该第一次就记录下来。
With our team being remote, I have definitely had moments where I've had to explain the same setup or process more than once to a colleague, and it always feels like something that should have been documented the first time.
有了Scribe，原本可能需要花几个小时编写和整理的内容，不到一分钟就能准备好分享。
With Scribe, what could take hours of writing and cleanup can be ready to share in under a minute.
Scribe还会自动从截图中隐去敏感信息，比如姓名、邮箱和账号。
Scribe also automatically redacts sensitive information like names, emails, and account numbers from screenshots.
管理员可以在整个团队中强制执行这一点，确保没有任何遗漏。
Admins can enforce that across the team so nothing slips through the cracks.
而且，任何按照流程操作的人都能获得实时的屏幕指导，准确显示在实际工具中应该点击哪里。
Plus, anyone following the process can get real time on screen guidance showing exactly where to click inside the actual tool.
Scribe 不仅仅记录工作流程，它还利用 AI 提出改进建议，帮助你发现冗余步骤，并找到简化或自动化的机会。
Scribe doesn't just document workflows, it uses AI to suggest ways to improve them, helping you spot redundant steps and opportunities to simplify or automate.
想看看 Scribe 能为你的组织带来什么，请访问 scribe.how/crypto101，并提及 crypto101，即可在特定套餐上免费使用第一个月的 Scribe Capture。
To see what Scribe could look like for your org, head to scribe.how/crypto101 and mention crypto101 for your first month of scribe capture free on select plans.
那就是 scribe，scribe.how/crypto10one。
That's scribe, scribe.how/crypto10one.
现在大家都在谈论 AI，但真正重要的 AI 是那种能帮你节省时间、做出更明智决策、减轻工作负担的 AI。
Everybody is talking about AI right now, but the AI that actually matters is the kind that saves you time, helps you make smarter decisions, and takes work off your plate.
如果你经营电商业务，物流就是那种要么让你顺利推进，要么让你完全停滞的事情之一。
And if you're running an e commerce business, shipping is one of those things that can either keep you moving or completely slow you down.
这就是我喜欢 ShipStation 的原因。
That's why I like ShipStation.
这是一个为电商企业打造的一站式订单履行平台，其人工智能基于全球数十亿次发货的真实数据训练而成。
It's an end to end order fulfillment platform built for e commerce businesses, and its AI is trained on decades of real shipping data from billions of shipments across the world.
所以，不用再手忙脚乱地切换各种工具，ShipStation 能帮你掌控全局。
So instead of juggling a bunch of different tools, ShipStation helps you stay in control.
它能在库存不足时提醒你，推荐最优的承运商和费率，自动执行任务，帮你随着业务增长节省时间。
It can alert you when your stock is low, recommend the best carrier selections and rates, automate tasks, help you save time as you grow.
你还能获得跨销售渠道的库存同步、自动比价、品牌退货门户，以及与会计和 CRM 软件的集成，所有这些都集中在一个地方。
You also get inventory syncing across sales channels, automatic rate shopping, a branded returns portal, and integrations with accounting and CRM software all in one place.
如果我在经营电商店铺，这正是我想要的工具，因为一旦订单开始涌入，你肯定不希望物流成为拖后腿的环节。
If I were running an e commerce store, this is exactly the kind of tool I'd want because once the orders start coming in, you don't want shipping to be the thing that's holding you back.
超过一百万家企业在使用 ShipStation 来优化和扩展他们的物流。
Over 1,000,000 businesses have trusted ShipStation to optimize and scale their shipping.
你越早切换，就能越早开始节省时间和金钱。
The sooner you switch, the sooner you start saving time and money.
今天就注册 ShipStation，使用代码 crypto 在 shipstation.com 可免费使用六十天。
Get started with ShipStation today and get sixty days free at shipstation.com with code crypto.
网址是shipstation.com，优惠码是crypto。
That's shipstation.com, code crypto.
shipstation.com，优惠码crypto。
Shipstation.com, code crypto.
税费和费用另计。
Taxes and fees apply.
不知道你们怎么样，但我经常到了饭点才发现还没准备晚餐。
I don't know about you, but dinner sneaks up on me all the time.
打开冰箱才发现没有现成的蛋白质。
I'll open the fridge and realize I have no protein ready.
那时候我可不想跑去商店，临时采购，还得赌店里还剩什么肉或者汉堡。
And at that point, I'm not trying to go to the store, make a last minute grocery run, and gamble on whatever meats or burgers are left at the store.
所以Omaha Steaks是个很好的囤货选择。
That's why Omaha Steaks is a great freezer move.
就像家里有个信得过的肉铺，需要的时候随时有优质蛋白质。
It's like having a trusted butcher at home and quality protein when you need it the most.
奥马哈牛排用一百多年的时间赢得了好名声。
Omaha Steaks has earned its reputation with over a hundred years.
这种牛肉在全美各地的厨房里都备受信赖，现在直接送到你家门口。
It's the same beef trusted in kitchens across the country shipped straight to your door.
有牛排馆的品质，却没有牛排馆的价格。
Steakhouse quality without the steakhouse prices.
你的家人会以为这顿饭花了好几个小时，其实并没有。
Your family will think dinner took hours, but it didn't.
只要几分钟。
Just minutes.
如果你还没试过，那他们的汉堡精选套餐就是最好的入门选择。
And if you never tried them, the burger perfection flight is the perfect place to start.
你会得到20个优质牛排汉堡，用的是五种不同部位的牛排肉。
You get 20 premium steak burgers made from five different cuts of steak.
四个菲力牛排汉堡、四个纽约客牛排汉堡、四个肋眼牛排汉堡、四个牛胸肉汉堡和四个西冷牛排汉堡。
Four filet mignon burgers, four New York Strip burgers, four rib eye burgers, four brisket burgers, and four sirloin burgers.
各位，这简直就是汉堡界的山寨币篮子。
Guys, this is the altcoin basket of burgers right here.
如果我和布莱恩在节目里，我们肯定会五五分这些汉堡，因为你知道我们夏天多喜欢烧烤。
If me and Brian were on the rundown, we would be divvying these up fifty fifty because you know how we like to grill in the summer.
所以你拿到的不仅仅是一盒汉堡，而是不同的风味、不同的口感，还有真正的牛排馆级别的多样性，你可以随时扔到烤架上，或者工作日快速搞定。
So you're not just getting a box of burgers, you're getting different flavor profiles, different textures, and real steakhouse style variety you can throw on the grill or cook up fast during the week.
今天就上omahasteaks.com试试汉堡完美套餐吧。
Try the burger perfection flight at omahasteaks.com today.
20个优质牛排汉堡只要79.99美元，再用促销码beef还能再减35美元。
That's 20 premium steak burgers for just $79.99, plus get $35 off with the promo code beef.
就是omahasteaks.com，结账时输入促销码beef立减35美元。
That's omahasteaks.com promo code beef for $35 off at checkout.
条款适用。
Terms apply.
详情请见网站。
See site for details.
详情。
Details.
对。
Yep.
首先，你会根据兴趣和需求来决定方向。
To start, you kinda go where where the, you know, the interest is, where the demand is.
所以我们一开始用的是USDC和USDT。
So we started with USDC and USDT.
未来如果客户有需求，我们可能会增加更多，比如PYUSD、AUSD、USDG等等。
You know, we may add more in the future as there's demand from clients, and that could include, you know, PYUSD, a USD, the USDG, others.
但目前来看，USDC和USDT确实是需求最大的，而且很多收益来源、杠杆或其他功能也都是以这两种币种来计价的。
But for the time being, USDC and USDT has really just been where there's the most desire, and that's also what the kind of the denomination that a lot of the sources of yield or leverage or other other functions are, resolving toward.
这种情况可能会改变，我们的系统也足够灵活，能够适应变化。
That could change, and our system's flexible enough to change.
所以这主要还是由客户需求来驱动的。
So it's really kind of driven a little bit by client demand.
哦，我正想说，你也是问这个问题的绝佳人选，因为这是我们在Crypto 101经常被问到的问题。
Oh, I was just gonna say you're the perfect guy to, to ask this question too because it's something that we kind of get asked a lot here at Crypto one zero one.
大家看到，在传统世界里，我有一美元，是现金，我存进ATM，它就变成我银行账户里的美元。
And people see, you know, in the traditional world, I have a dollar, it's cash, I deposit in the ATM, it goes to USD in my bank account.
现在在加密世界里，你想要什么呢？
Now in the crypto world, like, what do you want?
你知道，就像穿着风衣的毒贩一样。
You know, it's like the drug dealer with the trench coat.
你想要USDE吗？
You want USDE?
你想要USDC吗？
You want USDC?
你想要USDT吗？
You want USDT?
你想要s USD吗？
You want s USD?
你想要USDY吗？
You want USDY?
你想要USDG吗？
You want USDG?
他们就会说，这都是些什么东西？
They're like, what what is all this?
它们有什么区别？
What makes one different?
所以呢，这些不同的稳定币有很多不同之处，比如流动性状况、抵押方式等等。
And so it's like, there's many things that make all these different stablecoins different, liquidity profiles, ways that they're collateralized.
但你能不能给我们一个入门级的解释，这些稳定币之间到底有什么不同？
But can you give us the one zero one version of, what are all the differences between these stablecoins?
这个嘛，我们可能可以专门做一期播客来聊这个。
This is I mean, that's that's we could probably have an entire podcast on this.
这类稳定币太多了，我觉得这要追溯到早期稳定币的各种尝试，比如它们是不是高度抵押的，或者它们是以什么计价的。
There's there's a litany of these, and I think this kind of goes back to, you know, all the experimentation early on with stablecoins, where there's, you know are they heavily collateralized, or how are they denominated?
它是美元，还是非美元的稳定币？
Is it US dollars, or is it a non US dollar stablecoin?
然后，你知道，后端是不是有一些功能？
And then, you know, is there are there some functions on the back end?
你知道，它是合成美元，还是真的直接挂钩于底层的锚定货币？
You know, is it is it a synthetic dollar, or is it really something that's more in your directly to the, the underlying, you know, pegged currency?
最终，你知道，当我审视这些东西，或者和别人讨论时，我把它们看作通信层。
Ultimately, you know, when I kind of view these things and when I discuss with someone, I I view these things as communication layers.
我觉得这是一种看待方式。
I think that's one way to look at it.
就像，这纯粹是一种转移价值的工具。
Like, this is purely just a vehicle to transfer value.
就这么简单。
That's kind of it.
或者它实际上压缩了传统银行业中很多内容。
Or it is something that actually kind of compresses quite a lot of what you see in traditional banking.
储蓄账户、支票账户、电汇、ACH，所有这些都被压缩成了这一个东西。
The savings account, the checking account, the the wire, the ACH, all of it is kind of, like, compressed into this one thing.
但根本上，我觉得随着美国监管机构越来越明确，希望如此，祈祷吧，非常祈祷。
Fundamentally though, I think as we get kind of closer and closer towards more clarity from, regulators here in The US, hopefully, fingers crossed, very much fingers crossed.
我觉得我们会越来越多地看到稳定币作为一种概念被认可为现金等价物。
I think what we're gonna see more and more is the recognition of stable coins as a concept as being cash equivalents.
这意味着在会计师、税务顾问、审计师甚至评估的监管者眼中，它真的是现金等价物。
And that that what that means is really cash equivalent in the eyes of an accountant or of the tax adviser or the auditor or even the regulator who's evaluating.
银行能持有哪些储备，这些储备又如何计入？
What what can a bank hold in reserves that are then counted for those reserves?
最终目标是让稳定币与法币、与你在支票账户里持有的数字美元得到同等对待。
Ultimately, the goal is for stablecoins to be treated equivalently to fiat, to, to digital dollars kind of held in your balance in your in your checking account.
我们还没到那一步，但我觉得那是最终目标。
We're not there yet, but I think that's the ultimate goal.
而且我觉得未来会有不同种类的稳定币，就像你提到的，不是每个稳定币都会做到这一点，因为不是每个稳定币的构建方式、用途或背后的意图都一样。
And I think there'll be different flavors of that kind of what you struck upon, going forward to where not every single stablecoin will do that because not every stablecoin will be built the same or have the same use case or intention behind it.
我觉得这个领域最让人兴奋的地方就在于，你有机会去尝试，去改变这些东西的含义、它们的用途，以及它们被对待的方式。
I think that's what's exciting about the whole space is that there's the ability to experiment and kind of change what these things mean, what they can be used for, how they're, how they're treated.
但我们在Ground开发的产品，很大程度上是倾向于那些非常常见、容易理解的概念，比如，哦，这完全是以政府债务计价的，而政府债务就是支撑等值法币的东西。
But for the products that we're building at Ground, it's very much kind of leaning into the, you know, very kind of expected, understandable concepts of, oh, this is denominated in government debt entirely, and that government debt is what backs up the the the equivalent fiat.
所以就像，哦，我觉得这两者是一样的。
And so it's like, oh, I think of these things as the same.
太好了。
Great.
我觉得这种框架，确实非常适合现金管理，比如为新银行、交易所、财富顾问提供服务。
I think, that that sort of framework, definitely is very well suited to, you know, cash management, for for neo banks, for exchanges, for wealth advisers.
稳定币这个领域很有意思，因为它增长的速度简直快得离谱。
The stablecoin space is fascinating because it has been growing at such a ridiculously fast rate.
我的意思是，给你一个概念，截至上个月，稳定币卡消费量同比增长了200%。
I mean, to put this in perspective, as of last month, you had stablecoin card spending volumes growing at 200% year over year.
上个月它创下了超过10亿美元的纪录，而且其中68%的交易量来自美国以外，我觉得这一点很重要，因为很多人以为，哦，这只是中心化的，但事实并非如此。
It hit a record last month of just over $1,000,000,000, and you saw 68% of that volume coming from outside The US, which I think is important because a lot of people think, oh, it's just, you know, centralized, but it's really not the case.
而且，稳定币的增长非常迅猛，这个话题也经常被讨论。
And on top of that, like, stablecoin growth has been really big, and it is been talked about.
大家一直在说，嘿，朋友们。
It has been talked about a lot of like, hey, guys.
有个巨头，稳定币会因为这个那个原因成为巨头。
There's this behemoth that that will be stablecoins for all these different reasons.
然后你看看各个领域。
And you look at the different areas.
它会用于代理吗？
Is it gonna be for agents?
它会用于我们消费者吗？
Is it gonna be for us as consumers?
会是这种稳定币卡片消费吗？
Is it gonna be this stablecoin card spending?
你可以从很多角度来看，但我觉得这让大家思考如何参与进来，以及谁可能成为赢家。
There's a million ways you could look at it, but I think it gets people thinking about how can they get involved and then who might be the winner.
所以我想把这两个问题都抛给你。
So I wanna pose both of those questions to you.
但也许在我们深入讨论之前，我脑子里最关心的头号问题是看到很多不同的银行和传统金融机构开始涉足稳定币。
But maybe before we do that, before we even dive into those, the the number one thing that's been at the front of my mind is seeing a lot of these different banks and traditional financial players getting into stablecoins.
就在昨天，我和Tivo在我们的小节目里聊到，美国银行、花旗、高盛、德意志银行和瑞银，他们都刚刚出来说，嘿。
I saw just yesterday, Tivo and I were talking on on one of our, like, little segments about how, like, Bank of America and Citi and Goldman Sachs and Deutsche and UBS, they all just came out and said, hey.
我们21家主要银行，承诺在明年上半年联合推出一种稳定币。
There's 21 of us major banks, and we're gonna be committed to launching a joint stablecoin in the first half of next year.
而且他们不是第一个这么做的团体。
And they're not the first group to kinda come out and do that.
所以在我们讨论其他事情之前，你对所有这些银行和不同金融机构加入并创建稳定币有什么看法？
So what I guess before we even get into any of that other things, what do you make of all of these banks and different financial players kind of joining in and creating stablecoins?
这意味着什么？
And what does that mean?
所以我觉得凡事都有两面性。
So I think always two sides of the coin.
最终，我认为这对整个行业来说是积极的。
Ultimately, I think this is positive for the industry.
对技术是积极的，对这些东西能带来的共鸣也是积极的。
Positive for the technology, positive for, kind of the the resonance of what these things can do.
与其对这些东西持轻视态度，甚至直接敌视，拥抱它们，我认为最终是好的。
Instead of there being kind of a dismissiveness to it or even, like, an outright hostility to these things, you know, embracing them, I think, is good, ultimately.
很难说清楚，这种拥抱具体是什么样子。
It's always hard to tell, like, okay, what does that embrace look like?
如果换成现有金融机构组成联盟，你反而会开始有点担心。
If instead incumbents creating a consortium, you kinda start to get a little little bit worried.
比如，这里到底会发生什么？
Like, okay, what what's really gonna happen here?
这对所有人来说会有多好？
Like, how great is this gonna be for everyone?
怎么
How is
这会怎么变呢？
this going to change?
不过我觉得，这其实预示着这些技术和资产最终会被金融体系所接纳。
I think ultimately, though, it is, foretelling, really kind of a an an acceptance of these technologies, of these assets as part of the financial system.
但这并不意味着只会有一个赢家。
That doesn't mean that there's, like, gonna be one winner.
我觉得我们现在还处于一个可以不断尝试、真正找出什么方法有效的阶段。
And I think we're still in that place where there's still an an opportunity to experiment to really figure out what works well.
我觉得那些由联盟发行的稳定币，比如你提到的花旗集团的那个，还有Stripe和其他公司推出的那些，嗯。
I think those stablecoins from, like, consortiums, like the one you're mentioning from Citigroup and, you know, the one from Stripe and others Mhmm.
我们拭目以待吧。
We'll see what happens there.
从历史上看，联盟形式的合作很少能取得巨大的成功。
We've not seen consortiums have, you know, be wildly successful historically.
至少对于稳定币来说，要让这些项目真正运转起来一直都非常困难。
They've kind of, at least for stablecoins, has been very hard to get those things going.
我觉得我们可能会看到的是，最终的结果其实和我们现在的情况类似，就像USDC、USDT和其他稳定币一样，这种稳定币在某个特定用例或某类参与者中会表现得非常好。
I think we could see is that, you know, that what comes from that really is this kind of similar sort of setup we have to where USDC and USDT and others to where this one works really, really well for this use case or for these types of participants.
而USDC和USDT则非常适合零售客户，甚至中小企业，尤其是在美国以外的地区，他们真的很想获得美元，对吧。
Whereas USDC and USDT are very well suited towards retail and even SMBs, particularly outside of The US, who are really trying to access dollars to Yeah.
你知道，用来对冲通胀。
You know, hedge against inflation.
然后他们想在此基础上构建产品。
And then they wanna build products on top of that.
而这里，可能只是，好吧，也许这实际上更偏向机构资金流动。
Here, it could be just, okay, maybe this is actually geared more toward institutional flows.
在这种情况下，它能让电汇变得比以前快得多，这总体上是非常好的。
And in that case, it makes, you know, you know, sending wires, wires, wildly wildly faster than than it's been before, which is generally great.
而且更便宜。
And cheaper.
而且更便宜。
And cheaper.
是的。
Yes.
而且还得证明，你知道，你为什么要这么做，还得打电话给别人。
And and let's having to attest, like, you know, what you're doing this for and, you know, calling somebody on the phone.
你为什么要把5万美元转到这个账户？
Why are you sending, you know, $50,000 to this account?
然后你就只能说，这是我的钱。
And you're just like, it's my money.
我想怎么花就怎么花。
I'm doing what I want.
啪。
Bam.
对方又打回来。
Call back.
那你能给我们发一下护照吗？
Well, can you send us a passport?
你懂吧？
You know?
哎呀，天哪。
Oh, man.
就是说，拜托你找个时间亲自来一趟实体办公室，确认一下。
Like, please please come by the the brick and mortar office at some point to to confirm.
没错。
Exactly.
所以走着瞧吧。
So we'll see.
我觉得看到这些尝试挺好的，但我们也得留意一下背后的人。
I I it's great to see the experimentation, but I think we should also be just kinda mindful of, know, those behind it.
你知道，就像任何技术一样，你推广的其实是那些开发者的组织架构或者文化。
It you know, as with any technology that you kinda promote the organizational structure or the culture of those those people building.
这可能是好事。
And that can be good.
那可能就不太理想了。
That can be maybe suboptimal.
但我觉得，总的来说，有这些参与者深入区块链的不同方面，是非常好的，非常健康的，最终对大家都有好处。
But I think, generally, the fact that we're having these types of participants dive in to different as aspects of blockchain is very good, very healthy, and will ultimately net out positive for all of us.
那跟我们说说，Ground 到底是什么，从头讲起。
So so tell us what what Ground is, from the ground up in a sense.
它是不是各种 DeFi 协议的集合体？
Is it kind of an amalgamation of different DeFi protocols?
你们是怎么帮助管理现金的，跟我们说说里面的情况吧。
How do you guys, you know, help with cash management and and kinda tell us what it looks like inside?
我们的很多客户，可能刚开始起步，或者稍微成熟一点。
So a lot of our clients, we're kind of you may be starting on the ground floor of their development or a little bit, you know, older, a little bit more mature.
这两类客户，我们服务的是两个不同的群体。
Both of them kinda serve we serve two different groups.
一种是 B2B，另一种是 B2B2C。
It's kind of b to b and b to b to c.
这两种情况下，他们其实都是想让手里的稳定币变得更有效率。
In both instances, they're really looking to, make stable coins that they have kind of hold of more productive.
而且他们通常会有不同的需求，比如需要什么样的API、能承受多大的风险、能应对什么样的流动性限制。
And they generally come with different types of requirements on what type of API they need, what type of risk they can absorb, what sort of liquidity, constraints they can contend with.
而这时候，我们就在这方面下功夫了。
And then this is where we're really leaning into this side of these things.
对于那些规模更大、监管负担更重的客户，他们真的非常非常重视风险、安全和合规。
For the larger ones, those that have more regulatory burdens, they really take risk, security, and compliance very, very seriously.
我们构建Ground就是为了适应这个范围，从那些直接拉满风险按钮的人，
We built Ground to accommodate kind of the spectrum where there are those that just, you know, hit the max, risk button.
到那些根本不在乎的人。
I don't really care.
你知道，就是那种直接冲进加密收益来源、DeFi、LST循环、结构化产品循环的人。
You know, let's let's, you know, dive into encrypted sources of yield, DeFi, looping of LSTs, looping of structured products.
他们想要的就是这些。
That's kind of what they want.
而更保守的一方，则希望接触到代币化的基金，这些基金实际上就是短期国债、房屋净值贷款或贷款抵押债券。
And then the more conservative side where I want access to tokenized, funds that are really just t bills or are HELOCs or are, CLOs.
我希望拥有一个混合投资组合，既能根据风险进行调整，又能满足我的流动性需求。
And I want those I wanna have a blended portfolio that is risk adjusted and, meets my liquidity constraints.
让这一切变得非常容易适应。
Make it very easy to kind of accommodate all of these.
在很多情况下，我们看到的是，要么是为新银行或B2B2C模式开发收益或奖励产品，要么是让跨境汇款公司或稳定币协调者持有的稳定币更具生产力，这些机构规模已经很大，以至于他们的客户开始问，我不想完成稳定币的套利循环。
And in many cases, what we're seeing is, really, it's either the development of an earning or rewards product for a neobank, b to b to c, or it's the making more productive stablecoins kind of being held at a cross border money mover or a stablecoin orchestrator who has gotten such scale that their clients are now asking, well, I don't wanna complete the stablecoin sandwich.
我宁愿把部分现金留在链上，以USDC或USDT的形式，但我不想让它们闲置在那里什么都不做。
I'd rather keep some of my cash on chain in USDC or USDT, but I don't want that to just sit there and do nothing.
我希望它们能得到保护。
I want it to be, you know, protected.
同时我也希望它们能产生一些收益。
I also want it to earn some yield.
所以，也可以为这些群体开发非常保守的投资组合。
So very conservative, portfolios can be developed for those groups as well.
但归根结底，还是要匹配客户在流动性、风险和合规方面的具体需求。
But it really all comes down to matching the the use case and the constraints when it comes to liquidity, risk, and compliance for our clients.
非常有道理。
Makes a ton of sense.
你觉得Ground自己有没有承担额外的风险，还是说它纯粹就是一个聚合和路由层？
Would you say that there's any extra layers of risk that Ground is is taking on yourselves, or is it, like, purely an aggregation and routing layer?
你是怎么看待这个问题的？
How do you kinda think about that?
你知道，我们是一个技术平台，所以我们实际上是在打造一个非常人性化的界面，就像一个通用的通行网关，用来接入代币化基金、代币化资产、LST、借贷协议、结构化产品等等。
You know, we are a technology platform, so we really are kind of making it making an interface that is highly, highly ergonomic and, kind of a universal pass gateway to access tokenized funds, tokenized assets, LSTs, borrowed lending protocols, structured products.
但越来越多地，我们倾向于去申请某些牌照，这样能让我们更灵活地为客户服务，但同时也意味着我们要承担更多的责任和风险。
But more and more, we're kind of leaning into, certain licenses we may want to go, pursue that would really kind of provide us more more, more flexibility to work on behalf of our clients, but would also thereby, take on more liability, more risk.
我们真正努力做的是与客户紧密合作，确切了解他们的需求，而不是仅仅把市场上所有可用选项——不管它们多新或多脆弱——一股脑地提供给他们。
We've really what we do try to do is work very closely with our clients to know exactly what they need and not just provide them, you know, the the fragmented pantheon of all the available options, no matter how, you know, new or fragile those things are.
我们不想说，嘿。
Now we don't wanna say, hey.
去用这个新协议，或者试试这个高风险的新代币化资产。
Go use this new protocol or test out this new highly risky tokenized asset.
肯定没问题。
It'll be great.
我们其实希望对平台上放什么有自己的判断，这样这些产品才能真正为客户服务好，他们就不用再去应对那些不断变化的选项了。
We kind of want to have some some opinion of what we place on the platform so that those things do work well on behalf of our clients, yeah, so they don't have to kind of navigate again the kind of always evolving landscape of options.
就是说，这些选项都是经过验证的，证明过自己，而且容易理解，正因为容易理解，才能压缩成API，让你直接通过API来操作，而不是去搞什么新的智能合约实现。
It's like, these are options that are generally tested, that have proven themselves, that are understandable, and you can, and they're so understandable that they can be compressed into an API so that you can actually, interact with them that way versus trying to grow kind of some new implementation of a smart contract.
我们真的希望界面和交互方式非常易懂、可信，而且不仅对集成商，也就是我们的直接客户，还有他们的终端用户，都能轻松上手。
We we really want it to be we want the interface and the interaction to be very understandable, very trustworthy, and something that is, accessible, not just to the integrator, our our client directly, but any of their end users that may be, interacting with it as well.
所以我觉得你之前把传统金融平台目前的处境描述成一种双输的局面，挺准确的。
So I I think I've seen you frame this and really just the current state of doing things as just a loo a lose lose for TradFi platforms at the moment.
如果他们想自己进来做，通常效果都不太好。
If they're trying to come in here, do it themselves, it hasn't tend or tended to work that well for them.
不管是让资金闲置、烧预算，还是去承担那些相关的风险。
Whether that's just, like, leaving cash idle or burning budgets or trying to absorb the the the risks that are involved with it.
为什么会这样呢？
Like, why has that been?
你能跟我们讲讲，当银行或新型银行试图自己搞定这一切时，最先出问题的是什么，以及为什么对他们来说结果往往不是最好的？
Can you walk us through what actually breaks first when some sort of bank or neobank tries to go through and do all of this themselves and why it doesn't always work out the best for them?
我觉得这个问题问得很好。
I think they're great question.
我觉得在很多情况下，嗯，有一个比较尖锐的观点，然后还有一个比较实际的说法。
I think in many cases, there, well, there's a spicy take and then there's kind of a work and sort of
给我们说说
Give us
两个都说说。
both.
来点尖锐的。
Think get spicy with it.
尖锐的观点是，很多想尝试的机构，不管规模大小，他们往往对新事物特别兴奋。
The the spicy take is, a lot of institutions that wanna try, depending upon their size or what have you, they they get really excited about kind of the new thing.
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它可能有很多激励措施，而且与协议、区块链或代币发行者的基础紧密耦合。
It maybe has a lot of incentives, and there's a tight coupling with the, you know, foundation of a protocol or a or a blockchain or an issuer of a token.
然后他们对此非常兴奋，几乎把自己逼到了墙角。
And and then they get really excited about that, and they kind of almost kind of paid themselves to a corner.
就像，然后现在怎么办？
It's like, and then now what?
就像，好吧，现在你有了这个东西，而且很难摆脱它，除非付出持续而坚定的努力，然后，你知道，好吧。
It's like, well, now you have this one thing, and it's now hard to break away from that without con committed concerted effort to then, you know, okay.
你还想做什么，让它对你或你的客户来说更令人兴奋、更有用，你有点把自己封闭起来了。
What else do you wanna do, to make this more, you know, more more more exciting, more useful for you or your clients, you kinda wall yourself off a little bit.
所以我认为，要避免这种情况，需要跳入可能更困难或更昂贵的领域，在那里你没有那种通往激励的顺畅路径，也没有那些旨在吸引你并某种程度上困住你的项目。
And so I think and and that to avoid that requires kind of a jumping into maybe the harder areas or the maybe the more expensive areas where you don't have the nice glide path to incentives or kind of the the programs that are kind of designed to kind of bring you in and kind of trap you in some way.
但除此之外，我认为在很多情况下，有点像是，好吧，一次性搞定。
But outside of that, I think in many cases, there's a little bit of a, okay, one and done.
你知道，我集成了这个金库或集成了这个代币。
You know, I I integrated this one vault or integrated this one token.
太好了。
Great.
能用了。
It's working.
真不错。
Fantastic.
咱们接着聊别的吧。
Let's move on to other things.
如果不意识到这一点，其实可以通过对接多种区块链或尝试各种选项，真正打造出独特的产品，从而让自己的产品脱颖而出、分散风险，或者精准满足你或终端用户的需求。
Without recognizing that there's the the ability to really really make something unique by interacting with a variety of blockchains or touching a variety of options so that you can differentiate your product or diversify against risk or really target outcomes that are highly relevant to you or your your, your end users.
我觉得目前的情况是，大家往往对某一件事特别兴奋。
And I think that's what's happened quite a bit is, there's a lot of excitement about one thing.
把这件事搞定之后，
You get it done.
六个月过去，可能就把它忘了，或者投入不够，它就在那儿落灰，再也提不起劲去继续推进了。
And then six months later, you kind of forgot about it, or, you haven't really committed enough, it just kind of sits there collecting dust, and you don't really pick it back up.
所以我觉得这种情况其实挺常见的。
So I think that's kind of what's happened quite a bit.
一开始热情高涨，但很快就变成，好吧，我们还有别的事要做，或者说，这是我们跟这个基金会或那个组织说好要做的，我们做了。
The the very, you know, rapid enthusiasm, kind of giving way to, alright, we have other other things we need to do, or, well, this is what we agreed to do with this this, this foundation or this other group, and we did it.
现在我想我们得等他们再做点什么。
Now I guess we need to wait for them to do something else.
我觉得这确实是个问题。
I think that's what's really kind of been a bit of a problem.
所以我们在Ground这里要解决的，其实就是告诉你，你不需要只押注在一个东西上。
And so what we get to solve here at Ground is really just saying, you don't need to commit to one thing.
你不需要把自己跟其他选项隔离开来。
You don't need to kind of, isolate yourself from the other options.
你可以用这一个界面去接触各种不同的东西，这样你就能很轻松地在各种选项之间切换，找到适合你的，然后随着时间调整，而不需要费劲去搞什么，哦，你知道，我这边集成了这个。
You can use this one interface that allows you to touch a variety of things so that you can, in fact, very easily maneuver across a plane of options to find those that are suited to you, and then adjust over time without having to kind of do all of the effort to, oh, you know, I integrated this thing over here.
现在我又得集成那个。
Now I gotta integrate this one.
这是一种全新的技术。
This is a completely new technology.
对，没错。
Like Yeah.
Solana和以太坊看起来不一样。
Solana does not look like Ethereum.
它的运作方式也和Monad之类的不同。
It does not operate like Monad or something like that.
然后你就会想，现在我得完全换一种思路来考虑这个问题。
And you're like, now I have to think about this completely differently.
我们把这些麻烦都去掉了，这样你就能真正专注于结果。
We kind of remove all of that, overhead so that you can really focus on the outcomes.
比如，你真正在意的是结果，而不是实现方式，以及后续对实现方式的持续维护。
Like, do you really care about versus the implementation and any constant maintenance of that implementation.
嗯，这正好回答了我本来想问的下一个问题，就是为什么API中间件是解决方案，而不是银行直接和Aave或Morpho之类的合作。
Well, that was that kind of answers the next question I was gonna ask you, which is, like, why is API middleware the fix for this rather than the bank just partnering with Aave or Morpho or someone like that.
听起来这让他们能专注于自己熟悉和擅长的领域，而不是陷入自己不熟悉的深水区。
And it sounds like it allows them to really focus on what they know and what they're good at as opposed to them getting themselves into deeper waters that they just aren't as familiar with.
对吧？
Is that right?
完全正确。
That's exactly right.
而且这能让每个人真正评估什么最适合自己。
And it it allows someone to really kind of make their own assessment on what works best for them.
你知道，也许Morpho在某些条件下表现很好，但在其他条件下就没那么好了，而AAVE稍微好一些。
You know, maybe Morpho is really great under some conditions and but it's not as great under other conditions, and AAVE is a little bit better.
现在你还能轻松同时访问这两者，以及其他协议和其他资产。
There's also this ability to now you can access both very easily along with other protocols, other assets.
如果你担心某个地方的流动性，或者某个金库或资产的表现，你可以轻松转移到其他地方。
If there is a concern about the liquidity somewhere or about the the performance of a particular vault or asset, you can easily move somewhere else.
你不需要知道，哦，我现在得去搞清楚该转移到哪里，怎么集成，或者了解那东西的参数是什么。
You don't have to know, oh, now I need to go figure out what to move to and integrate with it or understand what the, what the parameters are of that thing.
相反，我们已经有了那种预先构建好的东西。
Instead, we have that kind of prebuilt.
它就在API里。
It's in the API.
可以直接访问。
It's accessible.
随时可用。
It's available.
我觉得这就是很多人面临的一个大难题。
I think that's the the big kind of conundrum that a lot of people have had.
而且，我认为不幸的是，今年早些时候DeFi领域的一些漏洞事件就暴露了这一点——如果你过于依赖某一个实现、某一个来源或某一个解决方案，你确实会给自己、你的系统或你的产品带来一些脆弱性。
And this is, I think, unfortunately, kind of revealed itself with, some of the exploits earlier in the year within DeFi of if you adhere yourself so closely to, like, one implementation or one one source or one one solution, you really do kind of introduce some fragility to yourself or your system or your product.
如果那里出了问题，那就是一个单点故障。
If something fails there, that's now a single point failure.
然后你就得去解决这个问题。
And now you now have to go, you know, kind of resolve that.
通过Ground，你确实能够接触到多种选择，来防范这些长尾风险，以及其他你可能担心的风险。
With Ground, you're able to really access a variety of options to steal yourself against these sort of long tail, risks, as well as, other risks that you may be concerned with.
我觉得这很重要，尤其是在金融领域。
And I think that's what's important, especially in finance.
你确实需要拥有选择性，以及根据与你相关的条件快速进出头寸的能力。
You really do want to have optionality and the ability to move in and out of positions rapidly based upon conditions that are relevant to you.
那么，这是我们的劲爆答案，还是你对我们有所保留？
So is that our spicy answer, or was that you holding back on us?
有一点。
A little of.
两者都有一点。
A a little bit of both.
可能两者都有一点吧。
A little bit of both, maybe.
我觉得我说砸了。
I think I messed it up.
那我就收下了。
I'll take it.
我喜欢这个。
I like it.
不。
No.
我喜欢这个。
I like it.
我跟你说啊。
I'll tell you what.
能听到这些内幕消息真的很棒。
It's really great getting to hear about what's going on.
因为当我们谈论稳定币，甚至我们自己报道的时候，如果不跟那些在幕后工作、搭建桥梁、推动加密货币和稳定币未来应用的人交流，我们只能了解得很浅。这始终是个引人入胜的话题。
Because when we talk about stablecoins and even, like, you know, us when we report on it, you can only go so deep unless you're talking to the people who are in the background working with this, building the bridges, and just putting into motion how we can use crypto and stablecoins and services moving forward, which is always a fascinating topic.
我很好奇，比如，现在美国银行真的能碰这个吗？
I am curious, like, would a US Bank even be allowed to touch this today?
这个问题问得好。
It's a good question.
你知道，我们和很多BaaS提供商聊过，包括赞助银行领域里一些知名的名字，还有一些新获得OCC特许牌照的机构。
You know, we've had a lot of conversations with some BaaS providers, you know, recognizable names in the sponsor bank space, as well as some of the newer, groups that have gotten OCC charters.
那些对话真的很有意思。
And those have been really interesting conversations.
他们确实非常想让稳定币运作起来，而且在某些场景下已经找到了即时的产品市场契合点。
They they very much do want to make stablecoins work, and they're finding kind of immediate product market fit in certain contexts.
比如说，如果他们服务一些美国以外的客户，或者有美国客户需要向海外转账、汇款或转移美元，他们发现稳定币非常好用。
You know, if they serve some clients that are outside of The US or they have clients in The US that are sending, sending assets or sending value or dollars, overseas, they're finding stablecoins to be fantastic.
显然，这对跨境资金流动来说非常棒。
It's like, well, obviously, really, really great for cross border money movement.
而且现在有一种逐渐增长的考虑，就是，好吧。
And there's this kind of growing kind of consideration on, okay.
我们的客户群是不是开始变化了，以至于他们有兴趣持有或计价账户用稳定币。
Are we are we is our client base starting to change to where they there is an interest to hold, accounts or to denominate accounts in stablecoins.
我觉得当这种情况开始出现时，事情就真的开始发生变化了。
And I think that's where things really begin to change when you start to see that happen.
当然，不是所有银行都是一样的。
Not now not all banks are created the same.
我们和其他一些银行聊过，他们的客户中没有人表达过任何兴趣。
You know, we've had some conversations with others where they have clients that have no no one's expressed any interest whatsoever.
然后他们的竞争对手基本上说，我们的每一个客户都想要这个。
Then we have, a competitor of theirs basically saying, every single one of our clients wants this.
所以这真的取决于那家银行是谁，以及他们的客户是谁，而不是其他什么。
So it really depends on who the who that who that bank is and who their clients are more so than anything else.
对，是的。
And I Yeah.
我们确实快要达到一个点，我觉得大家会开始有兴趣用稳定币来计价账户、持有资产，而不仅仅是把它当作转账工具。
We're definitely kind of getting to the point where I think it's gonna be interested in denominating accounts to hold assets and stablecoins, not just use it as a vehicle for transference.
但还是有一些未解答的问题。
But there's still some unanswered questions.
即使在美国，像Genius和Clarity这样的案例之后，仍然有一个问题：稳定币会不会因为《杜宾修正案》而对我产生不利影响？
Even after Genius and Clarity, for instance, here in The US, there's still the question of, okay, does a stablecoin get countered against me for the Durbin Amendment?
我是否还需要遵守《杜宾修正案》的阈值要求？
Do I do I maintain compliance with the, Durbin thresholds?
或者，这甚至能满足我作为OCC特许银行的准备金要求吗？
Or does this even meet my requirements as an OCC chartered bank for reserves?
那国税局会怎么处理呢？
How do I what is the IRS gonna do for me?
比如，国税局会不会把它当作现金等价物？
Like, does IRS treat this as a cash equivalent?
其实，还有一些问题没有完全解决，我认为这些问题必须解决，对于非常传统的银行，即使是那些比较前沿的银行，也需要答案，然后才能真正说，哦，是的，我们全力以赴。
Like, there's still questions that have not been fully resolved that I think have to be resolved for very traditional banks, even those that are more on the, you know, cutting edge that do have to do that do need answers before there's, like, real, like, oh, yeah, let's do it full full bore.
我认为他们能够做到，特别是如果他们在美国以外有客户的话。
I think they'll be able to do it, particularly if they have clients outside of The US.
我觉得那里有更多的灵活性。
I think there's a little bit more flexibility there.
但如果你直接看美国市场，我觉得肯定还有一些未解决的问题需要解答。
But when you're looking directly in The US, I think there's definitely still some unanswered questions that have to be answered.
所以我们现在还处于早期阶段。
So we're still early.
还有机会。
There's still opportunity.
还有机会，还早。
Still opportunity Still early.
你知道，确实还早。
You know, I it it's it's definitely early.
比如，你看区块链的总价值，甚至稳定币，再看看已经印了多少美元，或者流通中有多少。
Like, when you look at the total value of the blockchain or even stable coins, then you look at, like, okay, you know, how many dollars have been, have been printed or in circulation?
资本市场的总价值是多少？
Like, what is the total value of capital markets?
你会觉得，哇。
You're like, wow.
还有很多地方需要探索。
There's a lot of, ground to cover still.
确实，我觉得这是个很好的过渡，正好聊到当前的市场。
Absolute I mean, yeah, that's a great segue to, like, the current market.
我觉得稳定币，你知道的，虽然会有波动，但大概有3000亿的稳定币价值在市场上。
I think stablecoins, you know, it fluctuates, but right around 300,000,000,000, let's call it, of of stablecoin value out there.
我注意到其中只有大约50亿，也就是不到2%是带收益的。
And I did notice that only about $5,000,000,000 or, you know, a little under 2% of that is yield bearing.
我就想听听你的看法，为什么会出现这种情况。
And I just wanted to to kinda get your take on maybe why that is.
是因为监管吗？
Is it like the regulations?
还是技术上的原因？
Is it something technical?
然后，3000亿是个大数字，但这个数字能涨到多大呢？
And from there, like, you know, 300,000,000,000 big number, but how big can that number get?
我知道，财政部长斯科特·贝森特正在大力推动，你知道，让稳定币变得更大、更普及，诸如此类，因为这是一个很好的地方来存放他的债券和票据，并把美元的世界主导地位输出到世界的每一个角落。
I know, treasury secretary Scott Besson, who's pounding the table, you know, to get stable coins bigger and more proliferated and all that kind of stuff because it's a great place to to stuff his bonds in and his bills, and export the the world dominance of the the US dollar to to every nook and cranny of the world.
但那个3000亿美元的市场能增长到多大，以及那个有收益的部分又能增长到多大呢？
But how big could that $300,000,000,000 market grow into as well as that that yield bearing part of the market?
不。
No.
这是个好问题。
It's a great question.
你知道，很多稳定币并没有放在有收益的资产里，因为它们存放在交易所，无论是中心化的还是去中心化的，用于保证金或抵押品，这些用途，还有在金融科技公司里，基本上就是放在那里，没怎么动。
You know, a a lot of stable coins are not held in yield bearing assets because they're held on exchanges, centralized or decks, you know, whether, you know, for margin or for collateral, for those purposes as well as, you know, in fintechs really just kind of sitting there and not really doing a whole lot.
所以在很多情况下，稳定币被视为干火药、营运资金或抵押品。
And so it's kind of, in many cases, stable coins are kind of viewed as dry powder or working capital or, collateral.
这就是很多稳定币最终被使用的地方，考虑到这些用例的性质，这是合理的。
And that's where a lot of stable coins kind of ended up being used, which makes sense of sense, given, you know, given the nature of those use cases.
我认为我们会越来越多地看到，特别是在美元化效应的基础上，人们希望持有美元，而不是一种通胀货币。
I think what we're gonna see more and more and more is particularly with kind of building on the effect of dollarization, the desire to hold, hold dollars and not, you know, a an inflationary currency.
光持有美元还有什么更好的呢？
What what's better than just holding dollars?
那就是能花出去。
It's being able to spend them.
比能花出去更好的是，既能花，又能存，还能赚点利息。
It's better than being able to spend them, save them, and earn some money on them.
那比这个更好的又是什么？
What's better than that?
投资。
Investing.
如果我们看到这种基于稳定币的构建越来越多，那就会吸引越来越多的资金进来。
And if we're gonna see this kind of build up more and more and more on top of stablecoins, that will, introduce kind of a a, know it will attack more and more and more.
所以我们会看到这3000亿增长，而且在这3000亿里面。
So we'll see 300,000,000,000 grow, and we'll see of that 300,000,000,000.
有一部分也会开始完全专注于赚取收益。
Some of those also begin to, be focused entirely on earning.
我觉得这里还有一个很有意思的点，就是你想，稳定币怎么赚钱呢？
I think there's gonna be another interesting component here of when you think of, okay, how do stablecoins earn?
很多时候，就是，好吧。
In many cases, that's like, okay.
你去一个借贷协议。
You go to a borrow lending protocol.
你通过那个方式赚钱。
You you earn that way.
或者你把它换成别的东西，比如某种加密原生资产。
Or you, you, exchange it for something else like a crypto native asset of some kind.
但那样的话，那个稳定币还是在流通。
But then that that stablecoin is still kind of floating around.
我觉得有一个有趣的时刻，就是对于代币化资产来说，能不能不用销毁稳定币就能访问它们，尤其是在代币化基金里。
I think there's this, interesting moment of will it be possible, particularly for tokenized assets, to be able to access those without having to burn a stablecoin, particularly in, like, tokenized funds.
我们现在还没到那一步，但我觉得当我们达到那种世界的时候，会非常非常有意思。
We're not there yet, but I think that will be very, very interesting, when we get to, get to that sort of world.
现在大家都在聊人工智能，但真正重要的AI是那种能帮你省时间、帮你做明智决策、还能减轻你工作负担的。
Everybody is talking about AI right now, but the AI that actually matters is the kind that saves you time, helps you make smart decisions, and takes work off your plate.
如果你在经营电商生意，物流就是那种要么让你顺利推进，要么让你完全卡住的事情之一。
And if you're running an e commerce business, shipping is one of those things that can either keep you moving or completely slow you down.
这就是我喜欢ShipStation的原因。
That's why I like ShipStation.
它是一个为电商业务打造的端到端订单履行平台，它的AI是基于全球数十亿个包裹的真实运输数据训练出来的，这些数据积累了几十年。
It's an end to end order fulfillment platform built for e commerce businesses, and its AI is trained on decades of real shipping data from billions of shipments across the world.
所以，不用再手忙脚乱地处理各种不同的工具，ShipStation能帮你掌控全局。
So instead of juggling a bunch of different tools, ShipStation helps you stay in control.
它能在库存不足时提醒你，推荐最佳的承运商和费率，自动化任务，并随着你的业务增长帮你节省时间。
It can alert you when your stock is low, recommend the best carrier selections and rates, automate tasks, and help you save time as you grow.
你还能获得跨销售渠道的库存同步、自动比价、品牌化退货门户，以及与会计和CRM软件的集成，所有这些都在一个地方搞定。
You also get inventory syncing across sales channels, automatic rate shopping, a branded returns portal, and integrations with accounting and CRM software all in one place.
如果我在经营电商店铺，这正是我想要的工具，因为一旦订单开始涌入，你肯定不希望物流成为拖后腿的环节。
If I were running an e commerce store, this is exactly the kind of tool I'd want Because once the orders start coming in, you don't want shipping to be the thing that's holding you back.
超过一百万家企业在使用ShipStation来优化和扩展他们的发货流程。
Over 1,000,000 businesses have trusted ShipStation to optimize and scale their shipping.
你越早切换，就能越早开始节省时间和金钱。
The sooner you switch, the sooner you start saving time and money.
今天就注册ShipStation，在shipstation.com使用优惠码crypto，即可免费使用六十天。
Get started with ShipStation today and get sixty days free at shipstation.com with code crypto.
网址是shipstation.com，优惠码是crypto。
That's shipstation.com, code crypto.
shipstation.com，优惠码crypto。
Shipstation.com, code crypto.
税费和其他费用另计。
Taxes and fees apply.
最终，我觉得我们会看到稳定币的总锁仓量，或者说价值，会因为这些趋势而不断增长，就像你之前提到的，比如越来越多的支付应用正在被开发出来。
Ultimately, I think we're just gonna see the TVL, if you will, or the the value of stablecoins kind of just increase because of all these trends that we I think you alluded to early on, like, a lot of, payments, being being developed more and more and more.
对稳定币的需求和兴趣会越来越大，但有些稳定币会闲置，能够把这些闲置的稳定币利用起来，我觉得会越来越有价值，因为我们确实会看到，随着时间的推移，它们被闲置在哪里。
There's gonna be just more need and interest for the use of stablecoins, but there are gonna be some that are gonna be idling, and being able to make make those more productive, I think, is gonna be increasingly desirable as we really do see, I think, over time where it is being held idle.
会有一种有趣的愿望，不是要提取更多，而是让闲置的资金更有用。
There'll be this interesting interesting desire to just ex not extract more, but to make make the idling more useful.
如果资金是因为保证金、备用金、流动资金而闲置，或者仅仅是因为你还没想出更好的用途而闲置。
If it's idling for margin or it's idling for dry powder or for its idling as a float, or it's idling there simply because, you haven't come up with something better.
会有越来越多的选择，让这些稳定币更有用，也让建立在它们之上的平台更有用。
There will be these more and more options to, to make those stable coins more useful and to make it more useful for the platform building on top of it.
我一直在思考稳定币背后的经济逻辑。
I kind of, always think about the economics of what's going on for stablecoins.
当你看到跨境资金流动、稳定币的调度、汇款或支付时，会发现手续费被大幅压缩。
When you look at cross border money movement or you look at, you know, stablecoin, orchestration or, remittances or payments, there's a lot of compression of fees.
我觉得会有一个有趣的时刻：如果我们能通过让闲置资产赚取收益来稍微抵消这一点，哪怕不是全部，只是平台上20%的资产，那也能抵消很多手续费压缩带来的压力，从而让平台比以往更快速地增长。
And I think there's gonna be this in you know, interesting moment of, well, if we can offset that a little bit by earning yield on any assets that idle, even if it's only not not a 100%, maybe it's 20% of assets that are kind of in in on on platform, that'll offset a lot of the fee compression and then allow for, allow for growth of that platform more more dramatically than what they've been able to do historically.
是的。
So Yeah.
不。
No.
我想说的是，在这一切当中，我们还没提到的一件事，我很好奇你们有没有在考虑这些，或者你们对代理使用稳定币有没有什么更犀利的看法？
I was gonna say amidst all of this, the the one thing we haven't mentioned so far, and I'm curious if you guys are building with any of this in mind, or if you have any more spicy takes on agents using stablecoins.
大家都在聊，你知道，有Grock机器人，有ChatGPT，这些乱七八糟的。
Everybody's talking about, you know, you got your Grock bot, you got ChatGPT, all this kind of stuff.
而且Cloudflare在这个领域也越陷越深了。
And Cloudflare is getting pretty deep into this world as well.
你们怎么看，就是代理支付用稳定币这件事？
Where do you stand on, you know, agentic payments using stablecoins?
这是必须的吗，还是你们更倾向于那种，嘿，
And is it necessary, or are you kinda more in the camp of, like, hey.
会有中心化金融，或者叫中心化金融，对，
There's gonna be CeFi or centralized financial Yeah.
专门做这个的组件。
Components that'll specialize in that.
我确实有，我会，我会把话收着点说。
I I do have, I I will I will tone down the spice.
但是，我有点觉得这有点像链上的去中心化AI。
But, I I kind of I view this a little bit like, you know, it's it's a little bit like a a decentralized AI on chain.
我有点觉得，那不太像回事。
I'm kinda like, I don't that doesn't that does not seem like a thing.
就是说，这些技术通常不是朝那个方向发展的。
Like, that these technologies are generally not geared toward that.
听起来有点关联，好像有点相似之处，但实际上并没有在产品市场匹配、使用量、兴趣或需求上真正体现出来。
It it sounds loosely, and there there seems to be an affinity of some kind, but, it it doesn't it's not really revealing itself in any sort of, like, product market fit or usage or interest or desire.
我觉得这方面有很多好的说法，但我们并没有看到多少实际增长。
I think that there's a lot of great narrative around this, but we've not really seen a lot of growth.
对。
Like Mhmm.
就是没太多动静，x四零二没什么进展，代理支付也没什么进展。
Just not a whole lot of hap not happening with x four zero two, not a lot happening with agentic payments.
你知道，也许我错了。
You know, maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong.
也许你是对的，这可能会迎来一个使用和兴趣的爆发式增长。
Maybe they're you know, this will, like there'll be this Cambrian explosion of use and interest.
但说实话，你确实还没看到这种情况，而且我在支付行业干得够久了，我真的不明白。
But as a kinda you just you really haven't seen it, and I I've worked in payments long enough for them, like, I don't understand.
为什么？
Like, why?
如果有什么的话，这些代理会代表某人行事，他们会用Stripe link，或者用他们的信用卡。
Like, it, if anything, these agents will act on behalf of someone, and they'll use, like, Stripe link, or they'll use their credit card.
我觉得这种代理自己付钱去访问不同东西的想法，更像是科幻小说里的情节，而不是现实世界现在会发生的事。
I think this idea of, like, agents just paying themselves to access different things is more sci fi from, you know, an exciting sci fi books than it is, like, real world right now.
也许未来会变，但我并不认为这是稳定币采用的下一波火箭助推器。
Maybe that changes, but I I I do not see that as, like, oh, this is how this is this is, like, the next, you know, you know, rocket booster reattach to skip a stablecoin adoption.
我不这么认为。
I I don't think so.
我觉得这更像是稳定币渗透到现有的金融基础设施、银行账户和资金流动中，而不是用AI去创造什么新奇用例。
I think it really is more of stablecoin seeping into existing financial infrastructure, and, bank accounts and flows of funds, less so novel use cases using, using AI.
我觉得这更多是炒作和叙事，不一定现在就有很多实质内容。
I think that's a little more hype and narrative and not necessarily something that has a lot behind it right now.
所以，可能有些是一厢情愿的想法，有些是营销炒作。
So so some wishful thinking, some marketing hype potentially.
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
但是，Reid，我希望我能告诉我的AI助手，到年底让我成为百万富翁，而且我希望它能跑赢市场，做到这一点。
But, Reid, I wanna be able to tell my AI agent, go make me a millionaire by the end of the year, and I want it to outperform the markets and do that.
你这是在告诉我我做不到。
You're telling me I can't.
嗯，你忘了提示词里的一部分。
Well, you forgot one part of the prompt.
你知道的，别犯任何错误。
You know, make no mistakes.
别犯错。
Make no mistakes.
我忘了那部分。
I forgot about that part.
好好想想。
Think hard.
好好想想。
Think hard.
你明白吗？
You know?
好好想想。
Think hard.
你就不会亏。
You don't lose.
把所有代币都烧掉。
Burn all the tokens.
你知道，这，这，这是一个激动人心的时刻。
It's you know, it's I I it is a it's an exciting time.
而且我，我不想泼冷水，因为我觉得这些实验真的很好，因为你根本不知道实验最终会带来什么。
And I I don't wanna, like, throw, like, all kinds of cold water onto these things because I think it's it the experimentation's really great because you just don't know what comes out of the experimentation at the end of the day.
比如，你可能，大家长期以来都在贬低DeFi。
Like, you could very everyone dumped on, you know, DeFi for the longest time.
然后，是的。
And and Yeah.
大家都说ChatGPT只是个愚蠢的聊天机器人。
Everyone said ChatGPT was just a dumb chatbot.
然后，是的。
And Yeah.
你知道，现在它却在做所有的编程工作。
You know, now it's just doing all the coding.
所以，我觉得，也许这里面有些东西还没有完全成型，或者还没有具体的实现方式，或者还没有那种，哦，如果你用它来做这个，然后突然，哦，哇。
So it's it's I I think that there's maybe something there that hasn't been fully formed or there hasn't been, like, you know, the the the exact implementation or the exact kind of, like, oh, if you do it if you use it for this, then all of a sudden, oh, wow.
一切都会变的。
Everything changes.
所以走着瞧吧。
So we'll see.
但我就是不知道。
But I I just don't know.
比如说，支付已经很快了。
It's like, you know, payments are really fast already.
高频交易也已经很快了。
High frequency trading is really fast already.
我就是不知道，为了读一篇《纽约时报》的文章，花几分钱去访问，是不是就是我们所设想的那个未来，就是代理替人做研究的那种。
I just don't know if these sort of, like, you know, fractions of a cent to get access to a New York Times article is exactly kind of the future that that we see for the agent kinda doing research on someone's behalf.
看起来有点，还是那句话，可能我错了，但感觉好像没什么实质性的东西。
It seems a little it just doesn't seem again, could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like there's a lot, a lot of a lot of there there.
但也可能我错了。
But could be wrong.
我们拭目以待吧。
We'll see.
我想说，为了唱个反调，也为了我自己学习一下，你知道，支持那个观点的人会说，信用卡有最低限额和高额手续费，而稳定币可以改善这一点。
Was gonna say, I think to play devil's advocate and just for for my own, learning, you know, the the when peep the proponents of that argument are like, well, credit cards have, like, you know, minimums and high fees, and stablecoins could kind of, like, you know, ameliorate that.
这个说法成立吗？
Is that valid?
还是说，你是支付专家。
Or are I mean, you're a payments expert.
你会说，这根本不对。
Like, you're like, that's just not true.
我觉得这肯定是有道理的。
I mean, it's definitely valid.
像稳定币，或者说，不是，银行卡网络确实有很高的费用。
Like, stable or it's not Card networks do have, like, significant fees.
它们通常运行得非常好。
They, you know, they generally work really, really well.
你知道，Visa 非常棒。
You know, Visa is fantastic.
Mastercard 也非常棒。
Mastercard is fantastic.
这些都能用。
These things all work.
Discover 也能用。
Discover works.
但费用结构，确实，可能会让人有点头疼。
But the fee structure, yeah, it it it can be painful.
如果你去跟商家聊聊，比如那些接受信用卡支付的，他们就会说，对，我收入的百分之三到五都花在刷卡处理上了。
If you go out and talk to a merchant, for instance, someone who's taking credit card payments, they're just like, yeah, like, three to 5% of my revenue has kind of gone to the card processing.
那挺好的。
It's great.
那可不是小数目。
Like, that's a lot.
那确实不少。
That's a lot.
所以理论上，稳定币应该能帮助改变这种情况。
So stablecoins theoretically should be able to, like, help, change that.
而且，你知道，这又是那种有点说不准的事。
And I, you know, again, it's like a little bit one of these things.
我们也不知道最后会怎么发展。
Like, we don't know how it's gonna shake out.
也许稳定币的存在本身就会给现有的卡网络施加压力，对吧。
Maybe it's just the existence of stablecoins will just apply pressure to existing card networks to Right.
降低费用，因为他们现在必须和这个替代网络竞争。
Lower the fees, because they have to compete now with this alternative, network.
而且我确实觉得，当我们考虑这其中的动态时，这真的很令人兴奋。
And I do think that's actually really exciting when we think about the dynamics of this.
比如说，是完全取代，还是只是引入足够的竞争和压力，让现有的玩家不得不适应，甚至采用这些技术，来让自己在价格、速度或灵活性上更有竞争力？
Like, is it a full replacement, or does it just introduce enough competition and pressure to where incumbents now have to adapt, if not adopt, these technologies, to make themselves more competitive, whether it's for price or speed or flexibility?
我觉得这真的非常非常令人兴奋。
I think that's actually really, really exciting.
太棒了。
Love it.
如果我说错了，
Correct me if I'm
请纠正我。
wrong here.
据我所知，你们好像还没有计划为Ground发行代币，或者目前还没有代币。
I don't believe you all have a plan to launch a token or have a token yet for Ground.
有没有计划做类似的事情？
Are there any plans to do something like that?
或者你们能
Or can you
没有计划。
No plan.
我是说，没有计划。
I mean, no plans.
可以说，就是没有计划。
You can say, like, no plans.
你知道，我真的没有认真考虑过这作为公司、产品或业务的一部分。
You know, I I've not really considered this as part of the the company, the product, the business, in any real way.
你知道，也许以后会变。
You know, maybe that changes.
你知道，我们确实得到了SEC关于ICO的很好的规则，这挺让人兴奋的。
You know, we did get this great, SEC rules around ICOs, which are which are pretty which is exciting.
有点晚了，但你知道，我觉得晚到总比不到好。
It's a little late, but, you know, I guess better late than never.
我希望在接下来的几个月里，我们能从他们那里得到更多。
I hope I hope we get more, from them, over the, following months.
你知道，真的没怎么考虑过这个。
You know, haven't haven't really considered that.
我确实觉得代币化领域有一些有趣的事情在发生。
I I do think there's some interesting things happening in, the tokenized space.
比如，Centrifuge 最近提出的把代币转换成股权的提案，挺有意思的。
For instance, centrifuge's recent proposal to really convert tokens to equity is pretty interesting.
所以，我们拭目以待吧。
So we'll see.
但对于 Ground 来说，目前，是的，没有代币。
But for Ground, right now, yeah, no no token.
没有。
No.
真的没有认真在探索这个方向。
Not really not really exploring that with any sort of seriousness.
我觉得有必要跟听众说清楚这一点，因为我们不希望聊到这里，有人就说，哦，我觉得这个挺酷的。
I think it's important to just, put that out there for the audience because what we don't want is for us to talk about this and someone say, oh, I think this is cool.
我要去买 Ground 代币什么的。
I'm gonna go buy Ground token or something.
结果根本不是那么回事。
And then that just not even be the case.
所以各位听众，请特别注意Reid刚才说的话。
So all the listeners out there, pay extra attention to what Reid just said.
没有代币。
There is no token.
对。
Yes.
别以为买Ground代币就是买Ground。
Don't don't buy the Ground token thinking it's Ground.
那绝对不是我们。
That's that's definitely not us.
嘿。
Hey.
这也不是第一次有人这么干了。
It wouldn't be the first time somebody did that.
所以
So
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
I know.
其实，这有点
Actually, it's a it's
是个好话题，可以顺便总结一下我们的讨论。
a good point, to kind of, like, round up the conversation.
股权和代币之间的转换，现在真的开始变得很有意思了。
The, the equity to token and token to equity conversion thing is, like, actually starting to get pretty interesting.
我听说过好几个不同的项目。
I've heard, several different, you know, initiatives.
你觉得，这对代币持有者来说会怎么样？
Do you think you know, like, how does that work out for the token holders?
比如说，你持有这个代币，然后你就进了股东名册，那你是不是得开个券商账户，他们得把股票转给你？还是说他们会用像 Superstate 那样的东西，你只要持有这个代币，它就代表股权？
Like, you know, you hold this token and now you're on the cap table and, like, you gotta get a brokerage account and they gotta send it over to you, or do they use something like Superstate where you could just have this token, but it represents equity?
这到底是怎么运作的？
How does that work?
我觉得这真的很有意思。
I mean, it it's really interesting.
我觉得在早期代币刚发行的时候，有点像是——不一定是ICO热潮，那几乎有点像是对模因币热潮的一种预示或先兆。
Like, I I think there's a little bit of back in the earlier days of when tokens were first emitted, not necessarily ICO craze, which was almost indicative of or, like, a foretelling of the meme coin craze in some ways.
但是，你知道，来自协议、来自L1、来自那些背后有实际支撑的项目的代币。
But, you know, tokens from protocols, tokens from l ones, tokens from, like, you know, actual you know, had had some something behind it.
你知道，一直有这样一种想法：这些代币到底是技术本身的股权，还是背后实体的股权？
You know, there's always this kind of thought of, like, are these actual equity in the in the technology or equity in the in the entity behind it?
而且，在很多情况下，发行代币只是达到目的的一种手段，并不一定是为了真正的股权所有权。
And, you know, in many cases, the the token issuance was a means to an end, and not necessarily geared toward actual equity ownership.
你知道，在某些情况下，它试图在传统意义上体现很多股权可能意味着的东西，但它并没有真正带来股权持有人所拥有的那些保护。
You know, it tried to, in some cases, reflect a lot of what that could mean, in traditional sense, but it didn't really come with all of the, you know, protections of an equity holder.
比如说，如果你在券商那里持有苹果的股票，那你就有投票权。
Like, if you own, like, a stock from your brokerage in, Apple, it's like, well, you get you get voting chairs.
你还能获得股东应有的各种权利，还有分红，所有这些。
You get, you get rights to various various, things that a, equity holder gets rights to, and you get distributions, and all these things.
但代币不一定总是这样，不过大家一直想复制一些功能，一些权利，比如治理权，或者分享协议或区块链的成果。
That wasn't necessarily always the case with tokens, but there was this always kind of desire to replicate some of those some of those some of those functions, some of those rights from, like, governance, or from, you know, share in the the outcomes or outputs of a protocol or of a of a of a blockchain.
我觉得挺有意思的，看到这种回归的趋势，还有那种想法，就是说，也许协议代币可以代表某种股权，而不只是一种加密原生资产。
And I think it it's it's interesting to kind of see this kind of comeback kind of loosely and and the desire to say, like, yeah, maybe maybe a token for protocol could be equity in something, versus just being a a crypto native asset.
我觉得这真的很有意思，因为那几乎就像是，你知道，那种反转的——
I think that's actually really interesting because that would be really kind of almost this sort of, you know, you know, flippy Full
圆满时刻。
circle moment.
这就是一个圆满时刻。
It's a full circle moment.
你知道，就像，稳定币是什么？
You know, it's like, what are stablecoins?
为什么它们就不能像法定货币一样被对待呢？
Why can't they just be treated equivalently to fiat?
那代币又是什么呢？
It's like, well, what are tokens?
为什么它们不能像某种股权一样被对待呢？
Why can't they be treated equivalently to kind of equity in a thing?
我觉得这里面有点东西，而且我们已经看到了这方面的尝试。
I think there's kind of something there, and we're we've seen the experimentation of this.
你看看那些股票。
You look at x stocks.
你点开那些全球市场股票。
You click on those global market stocks.
甚至一些代币化基金。
Even some of the tokenized funds.
一直有人想把链上的代币做得尽可能接近股权持有人的地位，同时还要保留区块链本身的那些强大优势。
There's been this desire to make the actual on chain token, you know, as close to as close to equivalent to being an equity holder as possible, while still holding on to all of the the great superpowers of the blockchain, itself.
目前还没有一个完美的实现，主要是因为各种监管方面的原因，但你知道，这将会非常酷，限制正在逐步解除，你可能会看到公司发行自己的股票。
There's not been a perfect implementation of this just yet for all kinds of generally regulatory reasons, but, you know, it it's gonna be pretty cool to see, you know, the the the, the restrictions are kind of coming off to where you could probably see, you know, a company issue shares of their their of themselves.
你可以在纳斯达克以及Solana上买卖。
You can be bought and sold on the Nasdaq as well as on Solana.
而且它们是相同的。
And they are the same.
我认为那会非常非常有趣。
I think that'll be really, really interesting.
这将是一个有趣的牛市。
It's gonna be an interesting, bull market.
很多新的变化，很多更新，很多不同的代币经济模型和结构。
Lot of new changes, lot of updates, lot of different tokenomics and and structures.
所以我们很兴奋。
So we're excited.
Reid，非常感谢你今天花四十五分钟参加我们的Crypto 101播客。
Reid, we really appreciate you spending the forty five minutes here with us today on the crypto one zero one podcast.
最后一个问题，你们接下来在路线图上有什么可以公开说的计划吗？
Just final question is, what's kinda next on the road map for you guys that you're able to, publicly discuss?
就是说，未来几个月你们最期待推出的是什么？
You know, what is it that you're, really looking forward to releasing over the course of the next few months?
我们会和业内一些知名品牌紧密合作，来推动更多的收益项目。
We're gonna be partnering very closely with, a few kind of recognizable names in the space, to really power, more earning programs.
我们会推出更多有趣的现实世界资产、代币化基金，还有带收益的股票，这样不管你在哪里，都能构建这些真正有意思的财富或收益产品，同时符合当地的监管要求。
We're gonna introduce more, interesting, real world assets, tokenized funds, as well as, equities that have, income associated with them so that it is possible to build these really interesting wealth or earning products kind of wherever you are and then comporting with the regulatory burdens that you have.
我对此非常期待。
I'm really excited about that.
我们正在大力探索的一个领域，我觉得会非常有意思，不只是拥有现实世界资产、代币化资产或代币化基金，而是能够利用去中心化金融。
One area that we're really pushing into that think could be very, very interesting is not just having, you know, an RWA, a tokenized asset or a tokenized fund, but being able to leverage decentralized finance.
这样你能从中获得更多收益。
So you can get way more out of it.
我觉得循环这个概念，历史上已经被证明了。
I think the concept of, looping, historically has been proven.
这是可行的。
It works.
你知道，你可以循环操作，比如LST。
You know, you can you can loop, like, an LST.
你可以循环操作有某种收入来源的东西。
You can loop something that has some sort of income stream.
我觉得把这种操作应用到代币化资产上会非常非常令人兴奋。
I think being able to do that with tokenized assets is gonna be really, really exciting.
从4%或5%的收益提升到15%。
Go from four or 5% to 15%.
如果由信誉良好的人管理得当，实际上可以相当安全。
And if managed really, really well by reputable, people, that can be actually fairly fairly safe.
风险可以非常透明，也非常可控。
It can be very understandable, the risks, and very controllable.
我认为把区块链的更多力量带给这些传统资产会非常非常令人兴奋，而Ground肯定会在其中发挥作用。
And I think that's gonna be really, really exciting to kind of bring more and more of the the power of the blockchain to these traditional assets, and Ground's definitely gonna play play a part in that.
太棒了。
Awesome.
好的，我们希望你接下来几个季度能再次来到 Crypto 101 播客，给我们带来新产品发布的最新消息，以及我们的听众可以参与的各种激动人心的方式。
Well, we are hopeful that you'll come back onto the crypto one zero one podcast here over the course of the next couple quarters and give us some updates on on the new product releases and all the exciting ways that our listeners can get involved.
各位，希望大家喜欢。
Everybody, we hope you enjoyed.
Reid，希望你享受这期节目。
Reid, we hope you enjoyed the show.
大家可以去哪个网站查看呢？
What is the the website that people can go to check out?
我们会把链接放在节目笔记里。
And we'll link that in the show notes.
太好了。
Fantastic.
Groundtech.co。
Groundtech.co.
那是我们的网站。
That's our website.
你可以在那里找到所有东西。
You can get everything there.
你可以在底部找到我们的Twitter和LinkedIn。
You can find us on Twitter and LinkedIn at the bottom.
如果你愿意，你甚至可以注册产品，相对快速地获得产品的良好访问权限。
And if you'd like, you can even sign up for the product to get a good access to to the product relatively quickly.
这样你就可以真正体验它，并告诉我们你的想法。
So you can really experiment with it and tell us what you think.
太好了。
Beautiful.
非常感谢你，里德·卡明先生，Superstate的联合创始人，Ground的联合创始人。
Thank you so much, mister Reid Cuming, cofounder of Superstate, cofounder of Ground.
欢迎再来。
Come back again.
别见外啊。
Don't be a stranger.
各位在家收听或观看的朋友，希望你们喜欢。
And everybody listening at home or watching, hope you enjoyed.
下周同一时间、同一地点，我们再见。
Come back same time, same place next week.
我们还会请来更多优秀的嘉宾。
We'll have some more great guests for you.
保重。
Take care.
谢谢你的邀请。
Thank you for having me.
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