一名在美国逃亡的意大利人。一名侦探被指称的Instagram账号。还有克里斯蒂尔法案。

你好。

Hi.

我是凯特·斯诺，NBC新闻主播，也是播客《饮品》的主持人。

It's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor, host of the podcast, the drink.

这个月，我和喜剧演员泰勒·托姆林森一起喝了一杯抹茶拿铁。

This month, I'm grabbing a matcha latte with comedian Taylor Tomlinson.

每期《饮品》都聚焦一个人攀登巅峰的历程，而泰勒的故事非常特别。

The drink is always about someone's journey to the top, and Taylor's story is remarkable.

她讲述了自己如何从教堂舞台起步，一路走到如今主演Netflix特别节目，比如最新作品《浪子归来》。

She tells us all about her unlikely path from performing in churches all the way to headlining her own Netflix specials like her latest prodigal daughter.

她还坦诚分享了自己成长中的宗教背景，是什么让她走上脱口秀之路，以及站在舞台上的真实感受。

And she opens up about her religious upbringing, what drew her to stand up, and how she feels when she gets on that stage.

希望你能收听这期节目，并在你常用的播客平台关注《饮品》。

Hope you'll listen and follow the drink wherever you get your podcasts.

我特别喜欢《今日启动》这个应用。

I really love the Start Today app.

他们在意我的感受。

They care about how I feel.

是这款应用里的工作人员。

It's the staff on the app.

是你建立起来的那些联系。

It's the connections you make.

如果没有好的身心状态，其他都无从谈起。

Without good mental and physical health, you have nothing.

它会教我怎么做饭来保持健康。

It tells me how to cook to keep myself healthy.

我打开应用一看，哇，今天走了七千步。

I look at my app and I'm like, wow, I did 7,000 steps today.

Start Today 会根据你的现状来支持你。

Start Today meets you where you are.

现在就去苹果或安卓设备上下载 Start Today 健康应用吧。

Download the Start Today wellness app now on your Apple or Android device.

条款适用。

Terms apply.

详情请见应用内说明。

See app for details.

早上好。

Good morning.

您现在收听的是《Dateline》故事策划会。

You're listening to the Dateline story meeting.

我们这就开始。

We'll get going.

今天这儿特别忙。

It's a busy day here.

我们的制作团队正在交流经验和点子。

Our producers are swapping tips and ideas.

他所说的‘混乱又忙碌’具体是指什么？

What do we think he means by chaotic and hectic?

事情一下子就全乱套了。

Everything turns south real quick.

真不知道这个故事最后会怎么发展。

Goodness knows what's gonna happen with this story.

欢迎收听《今日聚焦·真实罪案周刊》。

Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly.

我是安德莉亚·卡宁。

I'm Andrea Canning.

今天是五月二十一号，佛罗里达州迈阿密的消息：二十年前，大学橄榄球明星布莱恩·帕达遇害，他的前队友如今第二次走上法庭受审。

It's May 21 and here's what's on our docket in Miami, FL, twenty years after the murder of college football star Brian Padda, his former teammate is set to go on trial for the second time.

本周，控辩双方在法庭上就一位新证人和一个神秘的Instagram账号展开了激烈交锋。

This week, the defense and prosecution battled in court over a new witness and a mysterious Instagram account.

那个Instagram账号的评论，是在庭审进行期间陆续发布的。

Comments on that Instagram account were being post during the trial as it was happening.

在《今日聚焦》本周速览中，我们关注路易吉·曼乔内案的关键裁决——此人被控于2024年12月枪杀联合健康集团首席执行官布莱恩·汤普森。

In Dateline Round Up, a pivotal ruling in the case of Luigi Mangione, the man accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in December 2024.

犹他州的悲痛作家、定罪杀人犯科丽·里奇斯在宣判时发表了 defiant 的言论。

And defiant words from Utah grief author and convicted killer Kouri Richins at her sentencing.

你没做过的事，永远别道歉。

Never apologize for something you didn't do.

你没做过的事，永远别承认。

Never admit to something you didn't do.

此外，去年在《Dateline》的专题《幽灵》中，乔什·曼戈维茨讲述了科罗拉多州母亲克里斯蒂尔·克鲁格被丈夫跟踪并杀害的令人心碎的故事。

Plus, last year in his Dateline episode, The Phantom, Josh Mangowitz told the heart breaking story of Kristil Krug, a Colorado mom who was stalked and murdered by her own husband.

最近，乔什与克里斯蒂尔的表亲进行了对话，这位表亲如今正致力于保护其他遭受跟踪的受害者。

Recently, Josh sat down with Kristil's cousin who is now on a mission to protect other stalking victims.

我见过很多家庭为推动法律改革而奔走呼吁。

I've seen a lot of families advocate for changes in the law.

而你的案例不仅发生了，而且在我看来，几乎是创纪录地迅速实现了。

And in your case, it not only happened, but in what to me felt like just about record time.

我内心深处坚信事情一定会改变，我只是选择了相信。

I just felt so deeply at my core that it would happen, and I just trusted.

但在那之前，我们先去意大利，看看一名来自休斯顿的创业者如何被控双重谋杀后潜逃海外。

But before all that, we're heading to Italy for the unfolding story of a Houston entrepreneur accused of a double murder who's now on the run.

上周，39岁的李吉利在意大利都灵的正义宫出庭受审。

Last week, 39 year old Lee Gilley appeared in front of a judge in the Palace Of Justice in Turin, Italy.

他当时试图用疑似伪造的旅行文件入境，被意大利海关人员逮捕。

He was arrested by Italian customs officials trying to get into the country using what appeared to be fake travel documents.

不过，他出庭并不是因为这件事。

But that wasn't why Gilley was standing before the judge.

他之所以被带上法庭，是因为他被指控在家乡德克萨斯州犯下的罪行。

He was there because of something he's accused of doing back in Texas, where he's from.

2024年10月，哈里斯县警方以谋杀其怀孕妻子克里斯塔及腹中胎儿的罪名将其逮捕。

In October 2024, Gilley was arrested by Harris County Sheriff's investigators for the murders of his pregnant wife, Krista, and their unborn child.

他否认指控，并以一百万美元保释金获释，同时佩戴电子脚环。

He pleaded not guilty and was released on a $1,000,000 bond with an ankle monitor.

但本月早些时候，德克萨斯州检方称，吉利剪断了脚环，逃出了美国。

But earlier this month, Texas prosecutors say Gilley cut off his ankle monitor and fled the country.

一名在美国被通缉的逃犯，如今身在意大利。

An American fugitive in Italy.

一名被指控勒死怀孕妻子的德克萨斯男子，现在竟在国外申请庇护。

A Texas man accused of strangling his pregnant wife is now claiming asylum abroad.

他的谋杀案审判即将在美国开庭，但目前还不清楚吉利是否会在近期被遣返回国。

With his murder trial set to begin in The United States in just a few weeks, it's unclear if Gilley will be coming back anytime soon.

今天为我们详细介绍这起案件，以及李·吉利在意大利法庭上说了什么的，是《今日事件》的制片人卡特。

Here to tell us more about the case and what Lee Gilley told the Italian judge is Dateline booking producer, Cutt.

卡特，谢谢你今天来。

Caitlin, thank you for being here.

非常感谢你们邀请我。

Thank you so much for

很高兴能来，安德莉亚。

having me, Andrea.

好的。

Alright.

那我们先从头说起吧，凯特琳，跟我们讲讲李和克里斯塔·吉利的情况。

So to start, Caitlin, fill us in on Lee and Krista Gilley.

这对夫妻到底是什么样的人？

What do we know about this couple?

他们是一对非常恩爱的夫妻。

They were a beautiful couple.

他们年轻时就认识了。

They had met when they were younger.

后来重新取得联系，迅速陷入热恋，之后搬到了休斯顿。克里斯塔是一名物理治疗师，而李则是自己创办了一家工程公司。

They reconnected, had a whirlwind romance, relocated to Houston, where Krista was a physical therapist, and Lee was a founder of his own engineering firm.

他们有两个孩子。

They had two kids.

在克里斯塔被指控遇害时，她正怀着他们的第三个孩子。

And at the time of Krista's alleged murder, she was carrying their third child.

那时她怀孕八周。

She was eight weeks pregnant.

所以，关于克里斯塔出了问题的第一个线索，是李提供的。

So the first indication that something was wrong with Krista came from Lee.

那是他在2024年10月7日打的911报警电话。

It was a 911 call that he made on 10/07/2024.

说说这个电话的情况。

Tell us about that call.

李拨打了911。

So Lee called 911.

警方赶到时，他说发现妻子失去意识。

When the authorities arrived, he said that he had discovered his wife unresponsive.

他们之前吵了一架，他说自己给了她一些时间，让她一个人在房间里冷静。

The two had gotten into an argument, he and said he had given her some time to herself in their room.

大约三小时后，他说发现克里斯塔已经没有反应，并认为她是自杀身亡。

So about three hours after this argument, he said he found Krista unresponsive, and he said that he believed that Krista had died by suicide.

凯特琳，他

Caitlin, he

他告诉警方，怀疑可能是药物过量造成的？

told authorities he thought it was maybe some type of drug overdose?

没错。

Correct.

他就是这么说的。

That is what he said.

他们立刻把她送到了

And they rushed her

医院，但到院后她被宣布死亡。

to the hospital where she, of course, was pronounced dead.

人们是什么时候开始怀疑李·吉利的说法的？

When did people start questioning Lee Gilley's story?

几乎是立刻就起了疑心。

Almost immediately.

克里斯塔送到医院时，医护人员发现她脸上有淤青。

When Krista arrived at the hospital, they found bruising on her face.

尸检很快得出结论，她实际上是因颈部受压或勒窒息而死，死亡被定性为他杀。

An autopsy very quickly revealed that she had actually died by compression of the neck or strangulation, and her death was ruled a homicide.

调查人员说，当他们质问李时，他改了口，称克里斯塔并不想自杀，也没有吸毒。

Investigators say when they talked to Lee, he changed his story, saying Krista was not suicidal and didn't use drugs.

几天后，他被逮捕，被控以谋杀克里斯塔和他们未出生孩子的重罪。

Days later, he's taken into custody, charged with capital murder for the deaths of Krista and their unborn baby.

检察官，凯特琳，有没有说明他们为什么认为他杀了妻子？

Have prosecutors, Caitlin, said yet why they believe he killed his wife?

根据检方提交的文件来看，他们的论点似乎是李对婚姻感到不满。

Based on documents that had been submitted by the prosecution, it seems like their argument is that Lee was unhappy in his marriage.

他们说，2023年就有证据显示，他和圣地亚哥一名叫安娜·巴恩斯的女性有婚外情。

So in 2023, they say there seems to be evidence of an affair that he had with a woman named Anna Barnes in San Diego.

到了2024年，就在克里斯塔遇害前大约七个月，李 allegedly在Reddit上发帖说，他对婚姻感到无聊，公开寻找一名大学生，想发展一种‘朋友以上，恋人未满’的关系。

Then in 2024, only about seven months before Krista was murdered, Lee allegedly posted on Reddit that he was bored in his marriage and that he was openly seeking, as he put it, a college age female for a friends with benefits relationship.

李对重罪指控表示不认罪。

Lee pleaded not guilty to capital murder.

他交了保释金后被释放，但被要求在家软禁，并佩戴电子脚环。

He was released on bond and placed on house arrest with an ankle monitor.

接下来的几年里，情况就一直这样僵着。

That's where things stood for a few years.

到了今年，也就是2026年，他换了一位新辩护律师，这位律师在其他几起备受关注的案件中很有名。

By this year, 2026, he had a new defense attorney, someone our listeners might know from other high profile cases.

他叫迪克·德加兰，提出了一个完全不同的案件解读。

His name is Dick DeGarran, and he has a whole new theory of the case.

他说根本不存在谋杀，克里斯塔是死于一种罕见的血液疾病。

He said that there had been no murder at all, that Krista had died from a rare blood disorder.

凯特琳，这个说法是从哪儿来的？

Caitlin, where is that coming from?

严格来说，克里斯塔确实被诊断出患有一种罕见的血液疾病。

Technically, Krista was diagnosed with a rare blood disorder.

但根据检方提交、我们有机会查阅的文件，这种病当时才刚开始显现

But based on the documents that had been submitted by the prosecution that we got a chance to look at, it was something that only had begun to crop

但这些症状是在她被指控谋杀前大约一年才出现的。

up about a year before her alleged homicide.

而且如果他们说她是因颈部受压或勒毙而死，那这跟那个病似乎也对不上。

And also doesn't seem like it's connected if they're saying that she died by compression of the neck or strangulation.

吉利的辩护律师认为，这种罕见的血液疾病可能表现出类似勒毙的症状。

Gilley's defense attorney is saying that this rare blood condition could actually present symptoms that mimic strangulation.

所以他们主张，她是死于这个早已存在的罕见血液疾病。

So they're arguing that she did die from this preexisting condition, this rare blood disorder.

这就带我们到了五月初。

So that brings us to the beginning of May.

在逃往意大利之前，李的行踪我们了解多少？

What do we know about Lee's movements before he fled to Italy?

在五月一日星期五，他的脚踝监控器确实记录到了一次异常。

Well, on Friday May '1, his ankle monitor did record an anomaly.

负责监控李脚踝设备的审前服务机构，并没有立即向任何人报告。

Pretrial Services was in charge of tracking Lee's ankle monitor, and they did not notify anyone right away.

最让我想不通的是，一开始我就在问，为什么李·吉利会获得保释？

So what struck me the most about this, really jumped out at me right out of the gate, was why was Lee Gilley out on bond in the first place?

他可是被控最严重的谋杀罪名。

He was facing the most serious of murder charges.

这可是可能判死刑的蓄意杀人案。

We're talking about capital murder where you can face the death penalty.

更离谱的是，他压根没打算隐瞒自己的计划。

And the the crazy thing is, apparently, he wasn't even keeping his plans a huge secret.

检方提交的法庭文件显示，李在居家监禁期间，还跟他的疑似情人联系，商量怎么逃出国。

Prosecutors filed a court document alleging Lee was communicating with his alleged mistress about trying to leave the country while he was on house arrest.

对。

Yes.

根据法庭文件，他曾向这名女子表示，想逃到墨西哥去。

According to the court documents, he had communicated to this woman that he was interested in fleeing to Mexico.

他还详细讨论过怎么拆除脚踝监控器。

He discussed his detailed plans of removing his ankle monitor.

我们提到了脚踝监控器，但他们没收走李·吉利的护照吗？

We mentioned the ankle monitor, but did they not take Lee Gilley's passport?

这事儿真有点奇怪。

That's the weird thing.

吉利交出了自己的护照。

Gilley surrendered his passport.

这是他获得保释的条件之一。

It was one of the conditions of his bond.

那有人知道他是怎么在没有护照的情况下去意大利的吗？

So does anyone know then how he gets to Italy without a passport?

好问题。

Great question.

我们知道，吉利 somehow 从休斯顿离开，去了加拿大，再到多伦多，然后从多伦多飞到了米兰。

So we know that somehow, Gilley was able to leave Houston, travel to Canada, travel to Toronto, and then from Toronto, he landed in Milan.

明白了。

Okay.

我们不知道他是怎么登上飞出美国的航班的，如果他真是坐飞机的话。

We do not know how he was able to take a flight out of The United States, if it was a flight.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，他或许是从德克萨斯开车去加拿大，但你还是得有某种证件才能入境加拿大。

I mean, I get I suppose he could have driven from Texas to Canada, but you still need, some type of ID to get into Canada.

我是加拿大人，这点我清楚。

I'm Canadian, so I know this.

不过话说回来，这些细节迟早会水落石出的。

But anyway, well, I guess that'll be those details will come out eventually.

他在意大利哪儿被抓的？

Where exactly was he apprehended in Italy?

据我所知，他抵达米兰时，交了一本伪造的比利时护照，结果被意大利移民官员拦了下来。

From what I understand, when he landed in Milan, he handed over a fake passport from Belgium, and he was actually taken aside by immigration in Italy.

一旦意识到自己暴露了，他就直接承认自己就是李·吉利。

Once he realized that he had been caught, he then fully identified himself as Lee Gilley.

他解释说，自己去那里是为了申请庇护。

He explained that he was there trying to seek asylum.

意大利通常不会把在欧盟境内面临死刑的人引渡出去，除非美国保证不寻求或执行死刑。

Basically, Italy generally will not extradite anybody on EU soil facing the death penalty unless The US guarantees that it will not seek or carry out the death penalty.

所以。

So

正如我们前面提到的，李·吉利被带到意大利法官面前进行引渡听证。

as we said up top, Lee Gilley was brought before an Italian judge for an extradition hearing.

凯特琳，后来怎么样了？

Caitlin, what happened?

李出庭时穿着T恤和牛仔裤。

So Lee appeared in court wearing a T shirt and jeans.

法官问吉利，是否同意被引渡回美国。

The judge asked Gilley whether he would consent to being extradited back to The U.

李回答说：‘我不同意。’

S, and Lee said, quote, I do not consent.

我妻子已经去世了，但他们却错误地指责是我干的。

My wife is dead, and they wrongly blame me.

这就是我不再相信司法体系的原因。

That's why I no longer have faith in the justice system.

我是清白的。

I am innocent.

我没有杀害我的妻子。

I did not kill my wife.

据我们在法庭现场的NBC记者报道，李用意大利语两次向法官道谢。

And according to our NBC reporter who was in court, Lee said thank you to the judge in Italian twice.

李的审判原定

Lee's trial was supposed

在六月初开始。

to start at the beginning of June.

时间已经非常近了。

It was right around the corner.

是的

Yeah.

克里斯塔的家人一定对这件事感到非常沮丧。

Krista's family has to be so frustrated by this.

他们确实如此。

They are.

他们确实如此。

They are.

凯特琳，非常感谢你为我们带来这些最新信息。

Caitlin, thank you so much for bringing us all this updated information.

我们一定会持续关注这件事。

We will absolutely be keeping an eye on this one.

谢谢你，安德莉亚。

Thank you, Andrea.

接下来，一场预审听证会上气氛紧张起来，起因是一名前大学橄榄球运动员被控二十年前枪杀队友，即将迎来第二次谋杀案审判。

Coming up, things get testy at a pretrial hearing ahead of the second murder trial of a former college football player accused of shooting his teammate twenty years ago.

一天快结束时，来听听《今日内幕》——NBC新闻推出的新播客，我是主持人贾斯敏·维索吉安。

As the day wraps up, get the scoop on what's been happening with here's the scoop, a new podcast from NBC News with me, your host, Jasmine Visougian.

我们会深入剖析当天最重要的新闻，由NBC新闻值得信赖的记者为您解读。

We'll take a deep dive into the day's top stories with NBC News' trusted journalists.

这是一档新颖、敏锐又富有深度的节目，帮你更贴近塑造世界的新闻与话题。

It's a fresh take that's sharp, thoughtful, and it's informative, bringing you closer to the headlines and conversations that are shaping our world.

从头版新闻到时代潮流，尽在其中。

From the front page, the zeitgeist.

《今日内幕》，来自NBC新闻。

Here's the scoop from NBC News.

每天收听，请锁定SiriusXM。

Listen daily on SiriusXM.

大家好，我是威利·盖斯特，提醒你们别忘了收听《周日对话》播客。

Hey guys, Willie Geist here reminding you to check out the Sunday sit down podcast.

本周节目中，我邀请到格莱美获奖歌手迈克尔·布雷，聊聊他非凡的职业生涯，从流行金曲到圣诞经典，一一道来。

On this week's episode, I get together with Grammy winning star Michael Buble to talk about their remarkable career ranging from pop hits to Christmas classics.

你现在就可以免费在任何播客平台收听我们的对话。

You can get our conversation now for free wherever you download your podcasts.

2006年11月7日，迈阿密大学一名学生在公寓楼外的停车场发现室友重伤倒地。

On 11/07/2006, a student at the University of Miami found his roommate gravely injured in the parking lot outside of their apartment complex.

他立刻拨打了911报警。

He made a frantic call to 911.

那人中枪了。

Somehow the guy shot.

他倒在地上了。

The guy's on the ground.

我不清楚他哪里在流血，但他就是躺在地上不动。

I don't know where he's bleeding from, but he's on the ground.

倒在地上的那个人是明星橄榄球运动员布莱恩·帕达。

The man on the ground was star college football player Brian Padda.

这位22岁的防守线球员头部中弹，等救援人员赶到时已经当场身亡。

The 22 year old defensive lineman had been shot in the head and was dead by the time help arrived that night.

你看到发生什么了吗？

Did you see what happened?

没有，我没看到发生了什么。

No, I did not see what happened.

到底怎么回事啊？

What happened, man?

多年来，这起谋杀案一直悬而未决。

For years, the murder remained unsolved.

直到2021年8月，也就是帕达遇害十五年后，警方逮捕了他从前在迈阿密大学的队友拉肖恩·琼斯。

Then in August 2021, fifteen years after Padda's murder, authorities arrested one of his former teammates from the University of Miami, Rashawn Jones.

NBC六台报道了这个故事。

NBC six had the story.

昨天，警方逮捕了琼斯·尼罗·卡勒布，据调查人员称，帕达和琼斯之间一直有矛盾。

Yesterday, police arrested Jones Nero Calleb, and according to investigators, Padda and Jones had ongoing issues.

琼斯否认二级谋杀指控，今年二月终于开庭受审。

Jones pleaded not guilty to second degree murder and finally stood trial in February of this year.

经过五天的证词和两天的合议，陪审团告诉法官他们无法达成一致。

After five days of testimony and two days of deliberations, jurors told the judge they were deadlocked.

此时，我宣布本次审判无效，陪审团解散。

At this time, I will declare a mistrial and a home jury.

本周，拉肖恩·琼斯本应再次受审，但律师们却重返法庭，就一名新的检方证人和一个神秘的Instagram账号展开争论。

This week, Rashaun Jones was supposed to go on trial for a second time, but instead attorneys were back in court for a pretrial hearing arguing about a new prosecution witness and a mysterious Instagram account.

今天为我们带来最新进展的是《档案》外景制片人亚历克斯·拉雷。

Here to bring us the latest is Dateline Field producer, Alex LaRay.

嗨，亚历克斯。

Hey, Alex.

嗨，安德莉亚。

Hey, Andrea.

我知道你一直跟进这个案子，谢谢你来播客里给我们详细梳理一下。

So I know you've been on court on this case, so thank you for coming on the podcast to break it all down for us.

首先，亚历克斯，检方说当年拉肖恩·琼斯和布莱恩·帕达争执的焦点是什么？

First off, Alex, what do prosecutors say Rashawn Jones and Brian Padda were fighting about all those years ago?

是的。

Yeah.

布莱恩·帕达和拉肖恩·琼斯都曾在迈阿密大学打橄榄球。

So Brian Padda and Rashawn Jones both played football at the University of Miami.

但到了2006年，两人的生活境况已经大不相同。

But by 2006, the two were in very different places in their lives.

布莱恩是队里的主力防守线球员，前途一片光明，有望进入NFL。

Brian was a standout defensive lineman with real NFL prospects ahead of him.

而拉肖恩并不是首发球员，最近还被球队禁赛了。

Rashaun, on the other hand, wasn't a starter, and he had recently been suspended from the team.

布莱恩当时正在和一个拉肖恩曾经交往过的女孩约会，检方认为这激起了拉肖恩的愤怒和嫉妒。

Brian was also dating a girl that Rashaun had once been involved with, which investigators and prosecutors believe made Rashaan angry and jealous.

我们在二月一直关注着这场审判。

We followed this trial in February.

检方传唤了多位证人，声称他们的证词支持了这一动机。

Prosecutors put on witnesses that they said backed up this motive.

是的。

Yeah.

所以检方请来了几位他们以前的队友作证，说拉肖恩和布莱恩之间有过矛盾，甚至提到几年前在宿舍里发生过一次肢体冲突。

So the state actually put on a few of their former teammates, and they testified about friction between Rashawn and Brian, including a physical altercation they had in a dorm room a few years before the murder.

我当时真的没想到事情会闹到这一步。

I was just, like, shocked that it it got to that point.

布莱恩有没有觉得他受到了威胁？

Did Brian feel like he'd been threatened?

有。

Yes.

检方还叫了一名声称当晚亲眼目睹谋杀过程的证人。

The prosecution also called someone they claim was an eyewitness from the night of the murder.

是的。

Yeah.

他实际上是检方案件中非常关键的一环。

So he was actually one of the biggest parts of the prosecution's case.

那个人是前教授，说他当时在停车场，听到一声像枪响的声音，随后看见一个男人快步离开现场。

The man was a former professor who said that he was in the parking lot, heard what sounded like a gunshot, and then saw a man briskly walking away from the scene.

这名目击者在照片辨认中指认出琼斯就是当晚他看到的那个人。

The witness identified Jones as the man that he saw that night in a photo lineup.

辩护方对检方提出的这些证人，还有其他证据，是怎么回应的？

What was the defense's response to that and also the witnesses the state called?

辩护方强烈反驳了检方的指控逻辑。

The defense pushed back hard on the prosecution's theory.

他们首先指出，没有DNA证据，没有凶器，也没有任何直接的物证能将琼斯和帕达的谋杀案联系起来。

They argued, first of all, that there was no DNA, no murder weapon, and no direct physical evidence that tied Jones to Brian Padda's murder.

他们说，这两人根本没什么深仇大恨，那场宿舍冲突其实是帕达先挑起来的。

They said that the two men had no real beef and that that dorm room fight was actually instigated by Brian.

辩护方还对目击者的辨认提出了严重质疑。

The defense also heavily challenged the eyewitnesses identification.

他们指出，停车场灯光太暗，根本看不清人脸。

Say that the parking lot was not well lit enough to see anyone clearly.

那个人视力不太好，目击者自己也承认，他并不完全确定那人就是琼斯。

The man's vision wasn't the best, and the eyewitness also acknowledged that he wasn't a 100% sure that it was Jones.

其中一位侦探知道我有多肯定，就直接回答说有百分之九十。

One of the detectives knew how sure I was that that was and and answered 90%.

所以，亚历克斯，我们知道最后陪审团无法达成一致。

So, Alex, we know that this ended in a hung jury.

拉肖恩·琼斯的新审判原定本周开庭。

Rashawn Jones' new trial was expected to begin this week.

当然，我们知道这并没有发生。

Of course, we know that didn't happen.

相反，检方和辩护方在法庭上就一些会影响重审的动议展开了激烈争论。

Instead, the prosecution and defense were in court battling over some motions that will affect the retrial.

你当时在法庭现场。

You were in the courtroom.

给我们描述一下当时的情况。

Set the scene for us.

是的

Yeah.

听证会上挤满了旁听者，有媒体，也有家属。

So the hearing was packed with spectators than the media and family alike.

说实话，有时候气氛相当紧张。

And honestly, at times, things got pretty heated.

辩护方试图把整个事情搅浑。

The defense is trying to cloud this whole issue.

有一刻，法官甚至在辩护方发言时笑了出来。

At one point, the judge even seemed to laugh while the defense was addressing the court.

我不只是觉得好笑，我确实觉得好笑。

I thought it's not only that I am amused, but I am.

明白了

Okay.

我同意。

I will agree.

我觉得这个论点挺有意思的。

I am amused by the argument.

法官甚至开玩笑说，这个案子的动议比她目前手头所有其他案子加起来都多。

The judge even joked that there were more motions in this case than any other case she has currently pending.

好的。

Okay.

那跟我们说说这些动议吧。

So tell us about the motions.

控辩双方到底在争什么？

What are the prosecution and defense arguing over?

第一个动议是，辩方要求获取更多检察官与狱中线人乔治·弗伦奇·琼斯之间通信的相关记录。

The first one was that the defense wants to access more records tied to communications between prosecutors and a jailhouse informant by the name of George French Jones.

他声称，拉肖恩·琼斯在2021年两人同被关押期间，曾向他承认杀害了布莱恩·帕达。

He claims that Rashawn Jones confessed to killing Brian Padda while the two were housed in jail together in 2021.

辩方质疑，这名证人是否在与检察官合作时，期待获得某种好处。

The defense is saying that they have serious questions about whether or not this witness is expecting some sort of benefit in exchange for cooperating with prosecutors.

检察官坚持声称，从未做过任何交易或许诺。

Prosecutors are insisting that no deals and no promises were ever made.

法官最终驳回了辩护方的动议，表示检察官无需再向辩护方提供任何更多证据。

The judge ultimately denied the defense's motion and said the prosecutors don't have to turn over any more evidence to the defense.

在另一项动议中，辩护方要求审查本案的主侦警官。

In another motion, the defense wants to take a look at the lead detective in the case.

他那边到底怎么回事？

What is going on with him?

是的。

Yeah.

警官胡安·塞戈维亚在2020年接手了这个案子，那时拉肖恩·琼斯还没被逮捕。

So detective Juan Segovia took over the case back in 2020 before Rashaun Jones was ultimately arrested.

在第一次庭审中，辩护方称他思维狭隘，只盯着琼斯，根本没好好调查其他嫌疑人。

In the first trial, the defense argued that he had tunnel vision with Jones and that he never properly looked into any other suspects.

这位警官否认了这种说法。

The detective denies that.

现在，辩护方在这些动议中提出质疑，称有一个匿名的Instagram账号，他们认为属于这位侦探。

Now the defense in these motions is raising concerns over an anonymous Instagram account they say belongs to the detective.

在审判进行期间，这个Instagram账号上一直在发布评论。

Comments on that Instagram account were being posted during the trial as it was happening.

这个Instagram账号的用户名是什么？

What is the handle on the Instagram?

你知道吗？

Do you know?

知道。

Yeah.

账号名叫‘正义的平衡’。

It's called balance of justice.

他们指控侦探在账号上发表了什么样的评论？

What kind of comments are we talking about that they're alleging the detective made?

知道。

Yeah.

有几条不同的评论。

There were a few different comments.

有一条评论在视频下面说：‘我看了很多庭审过程。’

One comment on a video read, quote, I've watched a lot of the trial.

他罪无可恕。

He's guilty as sin.

另一条就直接写了个大写的‘有罪’。

Another just said guilty in all caps.

明白了。

Okay.

辩护方认为，这些帖子可能暗示了两种情况？

And the defense is arguing that those posts could point to two things?

对。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

首先，他们提到的对琼斯的偏见问题。

So first, what they describe as a bias against Jones.

其次，侦探塞戈维亚在出庭作证前，可能一直在关注庭审进展和网上的评论。

And second, that detective Segovia may have been following testimony and online commentary during the trial before taking the stand himself.

所以有一点我们要说明，亚历克斯，辩护方认为这个账号确实属于那位侦探。

So one one point we should make, Alex, is that the defense is saying they only believe the account belongs to the detective.

听起来他们还没有确凿的证据。

It sounds like they don't have hard proof then.

辩护律师表示，他们通过技术手段追踪了与该账号相关的信息，包括邮箱、电话号码和IP地址，这些都被认为与侦探有关，但他们仍在努力从Meta获取更多直接信息，以进一步确认这一关联。

The defense attorneys say that they use technology to trace information connected to the account, including the email address, phone number, and IP address that they say are all associated with the detective, but they're still trying to access additional information directly from Meta to further verify that connection.

那检方呢？

What about prosecutors?

他们对此有什么说法？

What are they saying about this?

检方认为，即使真是他发的帖，也并不会影响他在案件中的工作质量。

Prosecutors are saying that even if he did make the post, it doesn't really change the quality of his work on the case.

塞戈维亚警探对这个账号有没有发表过任何看法？

Has detective Segovia commented on this at all, this account?

他还没有就这些指控做出回应，而且我们得提一下，他目前正接受迈阿密戴德县警长办公室的内部调查。

He hasn't commented on these allegations, and I think we should mention that he's currently the subject of an internal affairs investigation by the Miami Dade Sheriff's Office.

我们曾询问警长办公室，这项调查是否与塞戈维亚涉嫌的Instagram账号有关，但没有得到回复。

We asked the sheriff's office if the investigation is connected to Segovia's alleged Instagram account and did not hear back.

之前，警长办公室对当地一家新闻媒体表示，他们致力于透明公开。

In a previous statement to a local news station, the sheriff's office said they are committed to transparency.

但由于案件仍在审理中，发表评论并不合适。

But because the case is still pending, it would be inappropriate to comment.

那么，关于警探和Instagram的这项动议，法官是怎么裁定的，亚历克斯？

So what did the judge decide on this motion, Alex, involving the detective and Instagram?

法官最终决定暂缓裁决，也就是说，她目前还没有做出任何决定。

So the judge ultimately reserved ruling, which basically means that she did not decide anything yet.

这对布莱恩·帕塔的家人来说一定非常艰难，他们已经等了数十年才等到正义的可能。

This must be so difficult for Brian Patta's family who have been waiting decades for justice.

是的。

Yeah.

他们确实如此。

They have.

这条路他们走了很久，布莱恩的兄弟姐妹们实际上全程旁听了听证会。

I mean, it's been a really long road for them, and Brian's siblings were actually in the courtroom for the hearing.

布莱恩的哥哥埃德温告诉我，他迫切期待重审开始，他们会坚持到底。

Brian's brother Edwin told me that he's eager for the retrial to begin, and they will be there to the end.

明白了。

Okay.

这个案子最近有不少新进展，亚历克斯。

Lots of developments in this case, Alex.

非常感谢你向我们带来这些信息。

Thank you so much for bringing them to us.

好的。

Yes.

谢谢，安德莉亚。

Thank you, Andrea.

接下来是《今日聚焦》栏目。

Up next, it's time for Dateline Round Up.

我们为您带来路易吉·曼吉奥内案的最新进展，以及科里·里奇因斯量刑的详细情况。

We've got updates for you in the Luigi Mangione case and details from the sentencing of Kouri Richins.

此外，乔什·曼科维茨将采访一位前家庭暴力检察官，她因表妹遇害后致力于推动跟踪类犯罪的法律改革。

Plus, Josh Mankowitz will be talking to a former domestic violence prosecutor working to change the laws around stalking after her cousin's murder.

你知道吗？每天在NPR的黄金时段提名晨间新闻播客《Up First》上，我们都会为您呈现三条关键新闻。

You know, every day on Up First, NPR's Golden Globe nominated morning news podcast, we bring you three essential stories.

每条新闻的核心，都是几个关键问题。

At the heart of each story are questions.

到底发生了什么？

What really happened?

真正重要的是什么？

What really mattered?

接下来会发生什么？

What happens next?

在NPR，我们支持你保持好奇、追寻事实的权利。

At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious and to follow the facts.

无论你在哪儿听播客，都来关注《Follow-up First》，让你在每天开始时就知道哪些事重要，为什么重要。

Follow-up First wherever you get your podcasts and start your day knowing what matters and why.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

今天为我们带来本周简报的是《Dateline》的制片人迈克·纳尔迪。

Joining me for this week's Round Up is Dateline producer Mike Nardi.

嗨，迈克。

Hey, Mike.

你好，安德莉亚。

Hi, Andrea.

你最近怎么样？

How are doing?

还不错。

Good.

我们第一个故事发生在纽约市，本周一名法官就路易吉·曼吉奥内案作出了重要裁决。

For our first story, we are here in New York City where a judge issued a major ruling this week in the Luigi Mangione case.

曼吉奥内是一名28岁的男子，被指控于2024年在曼哈顿中城枪杀了联合健康集团首席执行官布莱恩·汤普森。

Mangione is the 28 year old accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Midtown Manhattan back in 2024.

目前曼吉奥内被关押在巴扎监狱，等待州和联邦法院的审判。

Mangione is currently behind Barza awaiting trial in state and federal court.

所以，迈克，我们说的这个重要裁决是来自州法院，对吧？

So, Mike, first off, this major ruling we're talking about came from state court.

对。

Right?

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

对。

Yes.

这项裁决来自他在州法院的主审法官。

The ruling came down from his trial judge in, state court.

曼吉奥内被控多项州级罪名，包括二级谋杀，但他对所有指控都否认有罪。

Mangione is facing multiple state charges, including second degree murder, and he has pleaded not guilty to all the charges against him.

这个州案件的关键点是什么？

What's at stake here with regards to this state case?

检方和辩护方几个月来一直在争执，关于宾夕法尼亚州警察在逮捕曼吉奥内时从他背包里搜出的那些物品。

Well, the prosecution and defense have been battling for months over items police officers in Pennsylvania found in Mangione's backpack at the time of his arrest.

辩护方希望把这些证据全部排除。

The defense wants it all thrown out.

我们得先说清楚当时的逮捕情况，因为这关系到整个事件的来龙去脉。

Let's set the scene of the arrest because it's key to understanding all of this.

布莱恩·汤普森在阿勒格尼市一家麦当劳被杀五天后，一名员工打电话给警方提供了线索。

Five days after Brian Thompson was murdered hundreds of miles away at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, an employee called the police to tip them off.

餐厅里有个人长得和警方通缉的嫌疑人很像，结果一查，还真是路易吉·曼吉奥内，迈克。

There was someone in the restaurant who resembled the suspect that the police had been looking for, and sure enough, it was Luigi Mangione, Mike.

没错。

That's right.

警察作证说，他们先问了曼吉奥内几句，然后就把他扣下了。

Officers testified that they questioned Mangione and then detained him.

他当时带着一个背包，警方在麦当劳当场搜了，后来把他带到警局又搜了一次。

He had a backpack with him that was searched both at the McDonald's and again when he was taken to the police station.

我们知道，两次搜背包时，警察发现的东西不太一样。

We know that the officers found slightly different things during both searches of the backpack.

在麦当劳，他们从包里翻出了曼吉奥内的笔记本，还有一个防水袋，里面装着手机、护照和钱包。

At the McDonald's, they pulled out Mangione's notebook and a waterproof bag containing things like his cell phone, passport, and wallet.

到警局后，他们翻了背包的另一个隔层，发现了一把3D打印的枪。

When they searched the backpack at the station, they looked into a different compartment of the backpack and found a three d printed gun.

他们还翻看了那本笔记本，一页一页地拍了照。

They also took a look inside the notebook, photographing it page by page.