打造街头服饰帝国 Kith | Ronnie Fieg

于是他见了我，然后我们散步去了阿迪达斯店，走进店里，他问我：“你想在这里做什么工作？”

So he met me, and then we took a walk to the Adidas store, and we walk into the store, and he was like, "Well, what would you want to work on here?"

哇。

Whoa.

然后我拿起了贝壳头鞋，第二个项目叫“黑领带”，那时候我正和一个女孩约会，她参与了布鲁姆街金条酒吧的设计。

And then I picked up the Shell Toe, and then the second project was called the Black Tie, and at the time, I was dating a girl that was part of the design process of Gold Bar down on Broome Street.

金条酒吧是什么？

What's Gold Bar?

我不知道那是什么。

I don't know what that is.

金条酒吧，那是一个很漂亮的休息室，是那种当所有俱乐部都很火的时候，第一家这样的地方，它是一个非常私密的小房间。

Gold Bar, it's a beautiful lounge that was the first of its kind to be like when all of these clubs were really big, it was this really intimate small room.

从那以后就没有类似的地方了。

There was nothing quite like it since.

它变成了一个非常有活力的地方，每个人，市中心的年轻人都被吸引到那里过夜生活。

It became this really energetic spot that everybody, the downtown kids were all gravitating towards this place at night.

员工们都穿着黑色西装，整个地方都是金色的，非常漂亮。

The employees were in these black suits, and the whole place was gold, and it was beautiful.

我记得她凌晨四点还在那里给天花板贴金箔，我在旁边帮她。

I remember she was working there at 4:00 in the morning gold leafing the ceiling, and I was helping her.

我爬上梯子，帮她粉刷那个空间的天花板。

I got up on the ladder and was helping her paint the ceiling of the space.

所以我真的很喜欢那个地方，后来它开业了，我和经理成了好朋友。

So I was really in love with the space, and then it opened, and I became good friends with the manager.

然后有一天我在想，我拿着这只鞋，心里琢磨着：“我该拿这只鞋怎么办呢？”

And then I was thinking one day, I was like, "What am I going to do with this shoe?"

我手里就拿着这只鞋，在面前晃。

And I'm holding the shoe in front of me.

我就想：“我干脆把贝壳头做成正装鞋，然后让Gold Bar的员工都穿这双鞋。”

I was like, "I'm just going to make the Shell Toe a dress shoe and then have the employees at Gold Bar wear these shoes."

后来我拍了Gold Bar员工的照片，作为这双鞋的广告，我给它取名叫“黑领带”，鞋子还配了一条黑色的领带，是阿迪达斯的领带。

And then I ended up shooting the staff from Gold Bar for the campaign of the shoe, and I called it the Black Tie, and the shoes came with a black tie, with an Adidas tie.

那成了我参与设计的第二双鞋。

And that became the second shoe that I worked on.

从那以后，事情就像滚雪球一样发展，我是在David Z做的这些。所以我们卖了——

And then from there, it kind of snowballed, and I was doing this at David Z. So then we sold-

你还有一份远超全职的日常工作。

You still have a more than full-time day job.

天哪。

Oh my God.

所以这成了一门相当可观的生意，我们卖这些我参与设计的产品——

So this became a pretty substantial business where we were selling these products that I was working on-

它越做越大，很快就成了一门大生意。

It grew and grew and grew, and that became a pretty big business relatively quickly.

但你说这是一门大生意，钱都去哪了？

But where's the money going when you say it's a big business?

钱都进了David的口袋，对吧？

It's going to David, right?

对，钱是给David的。

It's going to David, yeah.

所以不是你。

So it's not you.

你没有任何股权，也没有经济上的关联，什么都没有。

You don't have any kind of equity, economic tie, nothing.

没有。

No.

你基本上就是出才华。

You're essentially just talent.

对，没错。

Yeah, correct.

没错。

Correct.

所以我既是买手，又是这个产品的策展人，同时还管理着店铺。

And so I was the buyer, I was a curator for this product, and then I was also managing also the shops.

所以——

So-

这听起来很像我问你今天是做什么的时候。

Sounds very similar to when I asked you what do you do today?

什么都做。

Everything.

基本上，什么都沾一点，对吧？

Basically, it was a little bit of everything, right?

而且他有一支团队，但我当时年轻、有干劲，管理着一家面向大众的店。

And he had a team of people, but I was young, energetic, and leading a store that was for the masses.

我刚在David Z开始工作时，那还是个亚文化品牌。

When I first started at David Z, it was a subculture.

等我成为David Z的买手时，它已经面向大众了。

By the time I became a buyer for David Z, it was for the masses.

David选择了在百老汇开店，面向游客的路线。

David took the route of opening stores on Broadway and catering to the tourists.

我想专注于本地市场，而且我非常热衷于收藏文化。

I wanted to be about the local, and I was very much into the culture of collecting.

所以在那之前我就已经开始收藏鞋了，我还和日本那边做交易，David没进的那些货，我当时已经在收集耐克了。

So I was already starting to collect footwear way before then, and I was trading with Japan, and product that David wasn't carrying, I was collecting Nikes at this point.

所以，David有一段时间有耐克的账户，但那时候，很多个体户都在竞争，他们都在打耐克账户的主意。

So, and David had a Nike account for a brief time, but at that time, there was a lot of competition with these individual businesses that were kind of running game with the Nike account.

那时候耐克账户可是个大事情，因为那是带动很多收入的品牌。

The Nike account was a big deal back then, because that was the brand that was driving a lot of the revenue.

所以他没有耐克，我就通过交易和收藏，因为我在行业里建立了很好的人脉。

So he didn't have Nike, so I was trading and I was collecting, because I built great relationships in the industry.

但基本上，在2009年，我已经开始想，嘿，我现在做的事情太棒了，但我也觉得，我可以换一种方式，专门为那些热爱这个产品的消费者服务。

But basically, in 2009, I already started thinking about, hey, this is incredible what I'm doing, but also, I feel like I could be doing this in a way where I could cater to the consumer that's about this product full time.

不只是在我发布产品的时候他们才来——

And not only when I'm releasing this product, they're coming in-

你说的全职是什么意思？

What do you mean full time?

全职的意思是，当我做这些项目的时候，比如那双ASICS鞋，那个买ASICS鞋的孩子不一定会在David Z买其他运动鞋。

Full time meaning, when I was working on these type of projects, like that ASICS shoe, for example, that kid that was buying that ASICS shoe was not necessarily shopping at David Z for other sneakers.

那些专注于收藏、追求特别运动鞋的孩子，比如高端限量款，他们会回来买我做的产品，但不会作为日常消费者回来。

That kid that was focused on collecting and about special athletic footwear, like elevated and very limited athletic footwear, was coming back for the product that I was creating, but wasn't coming back as a daily consumer.

所以你的想法是，我们有这种非常特别、有差异化的产品，但可能只占10%，我随便说的数字，而另外90%的东西你在哪儿都能买到。

So the idea is we have this very special differentiated product, but it's 10%, I'm making up numbers, 10%, and there's 90% of the stuff you can get anywhere.

对。

Correct.

你的意思是，我们不如只专注于那些特别的产品？

Why don't we just focus on the specials, is what you're saying?

好的。

Okay.

我想这么做，但这不是David的发展方向。

And I wanted to do that, but that wasn't the roadmap for David.

那不是——

That wasn't-

我想打断你一下。

I want to interrupt you.

不过我有个有趣的故事，因为你提到史蒂夫·乔布斯是我的偶像之一，我喜欢他完全不加掩饰的风格。

I got a funny story, though, because you mentioned Steve Jobs being one of my heroes, and I love that he's just completely unfiltered.

所以……这是在他去世前几年，当时耐克有一位新CEO。

And so- ... this is a few years before he died, and at the time, there was a new CEO of Nike.

因为他热爱品牌。

Because he loved brands.

他说：“耐克是有史以来最伟大的品牌之一。”

And he's like, "Nike's one of the greatest brands of all time."

他认为索尼是个伟大的品牌，宝丽来、苹果也是。

He thought Sony was a great brand, Polaroid, Apple.

对。

Yep.

他就是喜欢那些打造这些品牌的人——

He just like loved people that build these brands that-

有灵魂的品牌

Soulful brands

……用他的话来说，就是能唤起情感。

... they evoke emotion is the way he would put it.

对。

Correct.

没错。

Exactly.

然后他说：“史蒂夫，你有什么建议给我吗？”

And he's like, "Steve, do you have any advice for me?"

他说：“耐克能做出世界上最好的产品，但你们也做了很多垃圾。”

He's like, "Nike makes some of the best products in the world, but you also make a lot of crap."

他说：“把那些垃圾清掉就行了。”

And he's like, "Just get rid of the crap."

就是这样，比如——

That's it, like-

然后专注于好的东西。

And focus on the good stuff.

而且它——

And it-

这正是你此刻正在领悟的。

It's exactly what the realization you're having at this point.

但那些垃圾产品还是赚了很多钱。

But the crap was still generating a lot of money.

对，但史蒂夫根本不在乎。

Yeah, but Steve didn't give a shit.

我也不在乎。

And I don't give a shit.

所以这就是我和史蒂夫的相似之处。

So that's where me and Steve are alike.

对我来说，我看到一个机会，可以对自己做的所有事情都充满热情，而不是只对其中10%到15%的事情充满热情。

And to me, I saw an opportunity in being passionate about 100% of the things I was doing, not about 10 to 15% of the things I was doing.

天哪，这个见解很重要。

Man, that's an important insight.

我不想就这么跳过。

I don't want to skip over that.

这太重要了。

That's super important.

比如说，我一天85%的时间都在做我不在乎的事情。

Let's be like, I'm spending 85% of my day on stuff I don't care about.

那就把这些烂事都扔掉。

Just get rid of the crap.

因为这就是我们之前在镜头外聊到的，也许我们可以把这个话题带进讨论里，就是你能感觉到。

Because this is what we were talking about earlier off camera, and maybe we'll bring this into the discussion, is just like you feel it.

你能感觉到人们做事时背后有没有爱。

You feel when there's love behind what people are doing.

有实质内容。

Substance.

他们就是会做一些不经济理性的决定。

It's just like they do things that are non-economic decisions.

回到史蒂夫那个例子，他坚持说MacBook不能打开。

The idea, let's go back to Steve, where it's like he insisted that you can't open MacBooks.

那时候的Mac是打不开的。

You couldn't open a Mac back then.

但一旦你打开它，里面非常漂亮。

But when you did open it, it was beautiful.

看起来就像一件艺术品，一切都井井有条。

It looked like it was a piece of art, and everything was organized.

除了他，没人会看到里面。

No one was going to see it but him.

而这正是他的用意。

And that was his point.

他说：“我不在乎别人看不看得到。”

He's like, "I don't care if not other people see it."

这个道理是他从他爸爸那里学来的，他爸爸是个木匠。

And he learned that from his dad, who was a carpenter.

他说：“听着，我们在做柜子或者梳妆台。

He goes, "Listen, we're building a cabinet or a dresser.

人们会怎么做？

What do people do?

把梳妆台靠墙放着。

Put dressers on the wall.

你看不到它的背面。”

You don't see the back of it."

所以那些不在乎的人——

So people that don't give a shit-

……他们就用劣质木材。

... they use crappy wood.

我们不会那么做，因为我们知道它就在那里。

We're not going to do that because we know it's there.

这就是作为一位积极的创始人和作为你所创造产品的最终用户之间的区别。

And that's the difference between being such an active founder and being the end user of the product that you make.

这也是成就伟大的必要条件。

It's also what's required for greatness.

帕特里克·奥肖内西就像我的兄弟一样。

Patrick O'Shaughnessy's like my brother.

他是我最亲密的朋友之一。

One of my closest friends.

你上过他的节目，我们当时在楼上和一位当今最伟大的企业家聊天。

You went on his show, and we were talking, we were upstairs with one of the greatest entrepreneurs living right now.

他就是个疯子，对卓越运营痴迷不已。

He's just this maniac, just obsessed with operational excellence.

我们聊到了他的竞争对手什么的，帕特里克就感叹说：'天哪，太神奇了。'

And we- ... talked about his competitors and stuff, and Patrick made the observation, he's like, "Man, it's amazing."

他说：'一切都是垃圾。'

He's like, "Everything is shit."

而且不管你在哪个行业或领域竞争，他说：“每个行业里都有两三个人。

And it doesn't matter what category or industry you compete in, he's like, "There's two to three guys.

每个行业里都有两三个人做得特别好，然后剩下的全是一大片平庸之辈。”

There's two to three guys in every single one that are doing great shit, and then a whole sea of mediocrity."

对，平庸就是当你为了钱而工作时。

Yep, and the mediocrity is when you're working backwards for money.

所以当你是为了钱而不是为了产品时，你能看出来。

So when it's about the money and not about the product, you could see that.

我觉得现在人们比以往任何时候都更能看透这一点。

It's transparent today to people, I feel like, more than ever before, actually.

随着这一代人开始回归本质，就像黑胶唱片开始流行，小店铺也重新兴起，人们开始寻找发现的感觉。

As this generation starts to steer back to substance, as you see vinyl start to pick up, and as you see the mom and pop stores kind of have this resurgence into people looking for discovery.

人们想在现实生活中发现东西。

People want to discover things in real life.

而且我觉得数字世界让信息变得廉价了，有时候信息以艺术的形式呈现，如果你不亲手触摸和感受，就可能错过某些东西。

And I think that the digital world has cheapened information, and information comes in the form of art sometimes, and it's like you could pass over certain things by not touching and feeling them.

你就体会不到产品里面的那种实质内容。

You wouldn't understand the substance within the product.

所以我特别相信这一点，因为我人生有一半是在互联网之前度过的，跟你差不多，对吧？

So I'm a firm believer of that because half my life is pre-internet, kind of like yours, right?

一样。

Same.

我觉得我人生中互联网之前的那段经历——

And I think the pre-internet portion of my life-

应该说我们童年的一半吧。

Half our childhood, we should say.

不，因为互联网很早就出现了。

No, because the internet came around early.

我九六年、九七年就开始用AOL了。

I was on AOL in '97, '96.

对，所以差不多是童年的一半。

So yeah, so like half the childhood.

对，但那时的互联网还没那么有影响力。

Right, but that wasn't influential internet.

确实没有。

No, it wasn't.

一点都没有。

At all.

那时候上网还得拨号——

You had to call the internet-

我们小时候。

... when we were kids.

还记得吗？

Remember?

真的，我得拨号才能上网。

Literally, I got to call up the internet.

然后就说，'哦，妈妈在打电话。

And like, "Oh, mom's on the phone.

不能打电话上网了。

Can't call the internet."

而且你上网的时候，别人也打不进来，因为线路占线。

And then when you're on the internet, they can't call you because the line's busy.

我试着跟我女儿解释这个。

I try to explain this to my daughter.

太真实了。

That's so true.

我还特意去查了，你在YouTube上能找到，就是那个上网时的声音。

And I even went up and looked on, you can find this on YouTube, the noise it would make.

她就说：“这是什么？”

She's like, "What is this?"

我说：“我在拨号上网呢。”

I'm like, "I was calling the internet."

太搞笑了，兄弟。

That's so funny, man.

确实是这样。

That's really true.

但你第一次真正受到互联网影响，其实是在博客时代。

But the first time you were influenced by the internet was really in the blog era.

博客时代开始发展的时候，正好是我在David Z推出第一款产品的时候。那篇《华尔街日报》的文章之后，他们就开始对我的产品感兴趣了。

So the blog era, the development and the beginning of the blog era was right when I was putting out my first product at David Z. And they were interested in the products after that Wall Street Journal article.

那时候他们关注的是真正发生的事情，而且写文章也是出于正当的理由，那还是在品牌合作出现之前。

They were interested in what was happening, and they were even writing for the right reasons back then, where it was before brand deals.

那纯粹是兴趣爱好。

It was a hobby.

又回到热爱这个话题了。

Again, go back to love.

是啊，兄弟。

Yeah, man.

因为热爱才去做。

Doing it for love.

我永远不想偏离这一点。

I don't ever want to step away from that.

所以我做的一切都是出于对工作的热爱。

So, everything I do is for the love of what I do.

市场需要更多这样的东西。

The market needs more of that.

它需要更多对细节的关注。

It needs more attention to detail.

它需要有更多的目的性。

It needs to have more purpose.

我认为目的性非常重要。

And I think purpose is huge.

我经常回想苹果许多产品背后的目的，那就是改善人们的生活。

I often go back to the purpose behind a lot of these products that Apple makes, and it's to better people's lives.

而且这不仅仅体现在科技形式上。

And it doesn't only come in the form of technology.

你穿的产品能让你的生活变得更好。

The product that you're wearing can make your life better.

穿上它，你会感觉更好。

You can feel better in the product that you're wearing.

它能让你看起来更漂亮。

It can make you look better.

它能给你更多自信。

It can give you more confidence.

我想给他们的，比他们付的钱更多。

I want to give them more than what they pay for.

所以，光是这一部分就包含了很多，要确保产品在你触摸和感受时有价值，或者经过50次洗涤后依然有价值。

So there's so much that goes into just that portion of it, of making sure that there's value in the product when you touch and feel it, or through 50 washes of a garment.

有很多词，我觉得它们的含义在随着时间变化，比如“奢华”和“价值”这些词。

There are a lot of words that, I think meanings of some of these words are changing over time, like the word luxury, and like the word value.

通常，奢华和价值不会同时出现。

Typically, luxury and value don't come together.

“价值”这个词被低端零售给糟蹋了。

Value is this beaten-down term by down-market retail.

而“奢华”通常意味着得花一定的钱才能算得上奢华。

And then luxury is typically, it needs to cost a certain amount to be luxurious.

奢华真正应该指的是人们对所购之物的喜爱程度。

What luxury should mean is how much people love what they're buying.

拥有这个产品本身就是一种奢侈。

That it's a luxury to have the product.

这才是奢华应有的含义。

That's what luxury should mean.

所以我觉得很多奢侈品牌现在都过度曝光了，变得越来越不奢华了，至少在我看来是这样。

So a lot of these luxury companies, I think, are overexposed now and are becoming less luxurious, at least to me.

也就是说，它们变得太容易得到了。

That means it's over-accessible.

那你如何在Kith避免这种情况呢？

So how do you avoid that with Kith, though?

首先，我们不做批发。

First of all, we don't wholesale.

第二，我们不授权。

Second, we don't license.

这对你生意之外的人来说为什么重要？

Why is that important for somebody that's outside of your business?

解释一下为什么这么重要。

Explain why it's so important.

因为那样你就无法控制这些产品被怎么谈论、放在哪里、以及怎么陈列。

Because then you can't control how those products are spoken about, and where they're placed, and how they're merchandised.

那样你就没法围绕产品讲故事了。

Then you can't storytell around the product.

你可以通过制作电视广告来讲述顶层故事，但当你走进机场，看到某个破破烂烂的小店，半个店还在装修，走进去乱糟糟的，你看到的产品和接待你的人可能都不是最好的，然后人们就会下意识地把你的品牌和那种体验联系起来。

You could storytell top line by creating these TV ads, and then you're walking in the airport and there's some fucking little rinky-dink shop, there's construction done on half the store, and you walk in and it's messy as to how you see the product and the people that are catered to you, they might not be best in class, and then all of a sudden people are subconsciously associating your brand with that experience.

从第一天起，我就一直想控制人们体验到的感受，因为我觉得作为创造者，我最擅长讲述它。

From day one, I've always wanted to control the experience that people have because I thought I could be the best at speaking to it, since I'm the creator of it.

所以我想带大家体验整个过程，从创意构思，到走出店门，走出Kith的店门。

So I wanted to walk people through the full experience, from ideation, through walking out the door, walking out the Kith door.

所以讲故事这块，我觉得我们一半是讲故事的人，一半是零售商。

So the storytelling, I feel like we're 50% storytellers and then 50% retailers.

但在零售方面，又分为线上和线下。

But on the retail side, that's then broken up to what we do digitally versus what we do physically.

随着业务越来越偏向线上，我觉得反而被迫要开更多实体店。

And as the business starts to skew more digital, I feel forced to open more physical.

品牌就是这样发展起来的。

And that's how the brand grew.

因为我有数字，有个门槛，我不允许线上收入占总收入的比例超过某个数值。

Because I have a number, there's a threshold, where I won't allow the percentage of the total pie to go over an X amount on the website for the web revenue.

为什么？

Why?

我不想变成一个纯线上品牌。

I don't want to become a digital brand.

触感，触摸和感受——

The touch point, the touch and feel-

所以你是有意放弃更多的销售额。

So you're purposely foregoing more sales.

这又回到了爱，以及我们对话开始时提到的，你不能只靠金钱来工作。

This goes back to the love and how the conversation started, you can't work by just money.

你是有意放弃更多的销售额，因为你必须要有实体店，这对顾客来说是更好的体验。

You're purposely foregoing more sales because you have to be a physical, and that's a better experience for the person.

所以如果我从kith.com下单，对吧？

So if I order something from kith.com, right?

而不是去你的实体店——

As opposed to going in your stores-

是的

Yes

……那是一种好得多的体验，你掌控了整个故事，整个体验。

... it's a way better experience that you control the whole story, the whole experience.

其实我们从网站端就开始把控了。

Well, we're controlling from the website down.

不过说实话，也不是这样。

And actually, no, that's not true.

我并没有放弃线上收入，因为网站的收入一直在增长。

I'm not foregoing revenue, because the website revenue continues to grow-

好的。

Okay

而且它也在按计划发展，但我一直希望线上和线下各占一半。

... and it's on its path, but I always want it to be half digital and half physical.

所以我的意思是，我希望线下业务也能以同样的速度增长。

So I want the physical to grow at the same rate is what I'm saying.

好的。

Okay.

你明白我的意思吗？

Does that make sense?

不是这样的，等等，我们现在是50%——

It's not like, okay, wait, we're at 50%-

就是说——

Like-

别再在网上卖产品了。

Stop selling product on the internet.

那其实可能是个好主意。

That would be kind of, actually, it might be a good idea.

就像，抱歉，网站这几天关闭了。

It's like, sorry, the website's closed for a few days.

你得回来。

You've got to come back.

顺便说一句，有些品牌确实这么做——然后因为暂时消失而制造需求。

By the way, there are some brands that do that- ... and then create demand because they go away for a little bit.

Supreme在淡季就这么做，我觉得这真的很聪明。

Supreme does that in their off seasons, which I think is really smart.

但是那——

But that's-

等等，那你是不是把线上销售当作一个信号，觉得需要增加实体店的数量？

So wait, are you using the sales online as a sign that, hey, I need to increase the amount of physical stores I have in the real world?

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

我觉得正因为这样做了，品牌现在处于一个很特别的位置，因为我在旅行的地方开店。

And I think that because I've done that, the brand is in a really unique place because I open stores where I travel.

哦，多讲讲这个。

Oh, say more about this.

比如纽约、迈阿密、洛杉矶，还有东京。

New York, Miami, LA, and then Tokyo, for example.

然后我开始去巴黎参加时装周，巴黎就成了我下一个重点。

And then as I started to visit Paris for Fashion Week, Paris became the next focus for me.

后来我开始去伦敦，伦敦就成了我的一个重点。

And then as I started to visit London, London became a focus for me.

韩国首尔在时尚界变得重要了，所以我就开始去首尔，那时候我觉得是时候在首尔开一家店了。

Korea, Seoul became important in fashion, so I started to visit Seoul, and that's when I figured it would be a good time to open up a store in Seoul.

我觉得我们的增长是相当可观的。

I think the growth that we've had has been substantial.

现在我们正计划开店，消息已经传出去了，我们要在旧金山开店，在华盛顿开店。

As we're planning on opening now, the news is out, we're opening in San Fran, we're opening in DC.

而且我们有数据，知道有多少人在网上购物，就像我之前提到的。

And we have the data of how many people are shopping online, like I mentioned before.

这些人需要体验，品牌的实体体验。

Those people need the experience, the physical experience of the brand.

如果他们是品牌的粉丝，不能只有数字体验。

They can't only have a digital experience if they're a fan of the brand.

我觉得这是我欠他们的。

I feel like I owe that to them.

我有责任让他们充分体验公司，至少是公司能提供的一切。

I have the responsibility of giving them the full experience for the company, for what the company can offer, at least.

所以这就是我们增长背后的理念。

So that's really the mindset around the growth.

这是一家私人控股公司，对吧？

This is a privately held company, right?

是的。

Yes.

你有投资者吗？

Do you have investors or no?

没有。

No.

你拥有全部股份？

You own all of it?

嗯，我和我的合伙人，是的。

Well, me and my partner, yes.

你提到了去东京。

You mentioned going to Tokyo.

有个很疯狂的事，你可能也知道，世界上最好的披萨之一——你不会想到世界上最好的披萨会在东京，但那里有个怪人。

There's this crazy, you probably know about this, one of the best pizza-- You wouldn't expect to find the best pizza in the world in Tokyo, but there's one psycho guy.

那不对。

That's not true.

我倒是觉得东京什么都是最好的，不过你继续说。

I expect to find the best of everything in Tokyo, but keep going.

哦，好的。

Oh, good.

对，有人跟我这么说过。

Yeah, somebody said this to me.

他们说，你做播客的方式，有一种日本精神。

They're like, "The way you make podcasts, you have a Japanese spirit."

就是那种工匠精神，叫什么来着？

What's the craftsman?

是匠人吗？

The shokunin?

就是说，不管是扫地还是做寿司，都不重要。

Where it's like it doesn't matter if you're sweeping the floor or making sushi.

哦。

Oh.

就是不管你做什么，都像是——

It's like whatever you do, it's like-

你得把那件事做到最好。

You need to be the best at that one thing

……匠人精神。

... shokunin.

对，明白了。

Right, okay.

没错。

Exactly.

无论你做什么，都要认真对待，做到最好。

Whatever you do, it's just like you take it very seriously and be the best at what you're doing.

没错。

That's right.

你要把任何一个角色的潜力发挥到极致。

You maximize the potential of any one role.

对，所以这个人，我去了一家披萨店，忘了叫什么名字，但去过的人听到这儿就会知道是哪家，因为他只做三种披萨。

Yeah, and so this guy, I went to the pizza spot, I forgot what it's called, but people that hear this will know what it is if they've been there, because he does three kinds of pizza.

你不能做任何修改。

You can't make any modifications.

你不能说，'哦，能不能给我……' 不行，答案就是，'我就做这三种。'

You can't say, "Oh, can I get..." No, the answer is, "I'm going to make these three."

'我要把它们做到最好。'

"I'm going to make them the best."

就是这样。

That's it.

然后他一天忙完了，就直接关门。

And then when he's done for the day, he just closes.

就这样。

That's it.

他就收工了。

He's done.

对，他就直接关门。

Yeah, he just closes.

所以如果你是私营公司，现在想到的是，这些品牌都会过度曝光。

So if you're a privately held company, what came to mind now is, well, all these brands get overexposed.

没错。

That's right.

它们会过度曝光，是因为有来自……的压力。

And they get overexposed because they have the pressure from-

股东的压力。

Of the shareholders

……投资，股东的压力，比如你必须不断增长、增长、增长。

... investments, of shareholders, like you got to grow, grow, grow.

但对于手艺人来说，就像，我不知道，我一天做三个披萨。

But for craftsman, it's like, I don't know, I make three pizzas.

我就一直这么做下去。

I do this forever.

这就是我想做的事。

And this is what I want to do.

所以，如果你担心这个问题，你可以停下来或者放慢节奏。

So you could, if this is a concern of yours, stop or slow down.

不，我确实会。

No, I do.

没错。

Exactly.

我确实会。

I do.

而且很多时候，我确实会这么做，但不是说要把网站关掉或者——

And in many instances, I do, but it's not in the sense of shutting down the website or-

对。

No.

那是最极端的情况。

That would be the extreme.

而且我肯定也不会只做三个披萨。

And I also definitely am not going to make three pizzas.

我非常有野心，想把品牌的潜力发挥到最大，而且这个品牌已经远远超出了鞋类和服装的范畴。

I'm very ambitious to maximize the potential of what the brand can do, and the brand has expanded way beyond footwear and apparel.

你刚走进来就说：“嘿，哥们，在伊曼拍摄真的很不错。”

You just walked in here and you're like, "Hey, dude, filming in Iman is really nice.

“下一个我们应该去艾维拍。”

Next one we should do, we should do in Ivy."

就像你说的，你就是这样——

To your point, you're just like-

嗯，其实我的野心没有什么上限。

... well, I don't really have any ceilings on my ambition-

而且我也可以把这个扩展到酒店业和其他领域。

... and I can take this into hospitality and other spaces, too.

我想说一点。

I'll say this.

如果我容易被别人的期望或要求影响，那我就会被困在一个很小的框框里，因为我们是从街头服饰起家的。

If I was easily influenced by what people expect me to do or what people want me to do, I would be in a very small box, because we started off as streetwear.

其实我们一开始并不是做街头服饰的。

And we actually didn't start off as streetwear.

我们最初是从纽约服装区的一款剪裁缝制的裤子开始的，这里有个很长的故事。

We started off with a cut-and-sew pant out of the garment district in New York, and there's a long story about that.

关于那条裤子，我可以讲上两个小时，但正是那条裤子让我们进入了服装领域。

I could go on for two hours about that pant, but that pant was the entry into apparel.

但我们并不是从T恤，或者图案T恤开始的。

But we didn't start off with a T-shirt, a graphic T-shirt.

我们最开始是做裤子的，后来那条裤子变成了棒球夹克。

We started off with a pant, and then that pant turned into a varsity jacket.

那之所以会发生，是因为我在店铺周围建立了一个社区，对吧？

And that happened because I created community around the store, right?

那又是怎么做到的呢？

And how did that happen?

因为那时候，就像我之前说的，我在收藏，而且我非常热衷于纽约市中心的街头文化产品。

Because at the time, like I said before, I was collecting and I was big into the culture of product downtown in New York.

但是那些卖街头服饰和限量鞋款的店铺，他们都很傲慢。

But the stores that were offering this streetwear product and limited footwear, they were arrogant.

你走进那些地方，他们不太友好。

You would walk into the spaces, and they weren't very friendly.

我看到了这个问题，因为我来自David Z，那家店正在变成大众零售商，而且我当时是面向消费者的，我一直觉得，和每个走进来的人聊天，即使他们不是来买东西的，让他们感到宾至如归也很重要。

And I saw an issue with that because I came from David Z. that was becoming more of a mass retailer, and I always felt like, and I was consumer-facing at the time, I always felt like having the conversation with anyone who walked in, even if they weren't coming in for product, it's important for them to feel at home.

所以Kith这个概念，意思是朋友，来自“kith and kin”这个短语，意思是朋友和家人。

So the concept of Kith, which means friends, part of the phrase kith and kin, friends and family.

它的意思是朋友。

It means friends.

我希望人们能感到他们可以来到这个空间，享受他们的一天，即使他们不打算买任何东西。

I wanted people to feel like they could come to the space and enjoy their day, even if they weren't going to buy anything.

所以这就是最初促使我开这家店的原因。

So that's what fueled me to open the store in the first place.

然后我们基于这种欢迎他人的价值观建立了这个伟大的社区，因为这是人们一直在寻找的东西。

And then we built this great community based on that concept of those values of wanting to be very welcoming just easily created a community because it was something that they were looking for.

他们只是没有意识到而已。

They just didn't know it.

所以当我建立了这个社区，他们就想把店名穿在胸前。

So as I created a community, they just wanted to wear the name of the store on their chest.

他们想代表这家店。

They wanted to represent the store.

我们当时还不是一个品牌。

We weren't a brand yet.

我们当时只是一家店。

We were a store.

那你说说，跟现在相比有什么区别？

Explain what the difference is then compared to now.

嗯——

Well-

最初是什么情况？

What was the initial thing?

你只是在卖别人的产品吗？

You were just selling people's product?

那是什么？

What was it?

现在我们首先是一个品牌，对吧？

Now we're a brand before anything, right?

所以我觉得今天的区别，跟那时候相比差距很大，但我会用更简单的方式跟你解释这个区别。

So I think the difference today, the delta is huge between then and now, but I will say that I'll explain the difference to you even in a simpler term.

当初我刚开店的时候，我的律师问我是否要注册产品的知识产权，我当时想，我又不生产产品。

Back when I first opened the store, my attorney asked me if I wanted to register the IP for product, and I was like, "Well, I'm not making any product.

我是和这些鞋类品牌合作，但我自己不做服装，所以我觉得没必要买那个商标。

I'm working collaboratively with these footwear brands, but I'm not making any apparel, so I don't need to buy the mark."

他说，即使你用在服装上，你还是有保护权的，多少会有些权利。

And he's like, "Oh, you still have protection rights, even if you use it on apparel, you'll have some rights anyway."

我当时就说，好吧。

I was like, okay.

结果四年后，有个意大利的骗子去把我的商标在意大利注册了，用在服装上，而那时候我的服装生意已经做得很成功了。

Then four years later, there's this fucking crook out of Italy that went and registered my mark, the same mark, in Italy for apparel, and I've already become successful with apparel.

我就是没再去管买知识产权这事儿。

I just didn't revisit buying the IP.

所以突然之间，我不得不去跟那个骗子谈判，把我的知识产权买回来，才能在全球拥有它。

So all of a sudden, I then had to buy my IP and negotiate with this crook to buy the IP back and own it globally.

那真是个昂贵的教训，但一开始我根本没把自己当品牌看。

And that was a very expensive lesson that I learned, but I didn't even consider myself, in the beginning, I wasn't considering myself a brand at all.

即使在我刚开始做产品的头几年，我也只是觉得，"对，那只是我为店里搞的一些酷玩意儿。"

Even for the first couple years of me making product, I was just like, "Yeah, that's just cool shit I have on the side for the store."

但很快情况就变了，当Kith那个在Atrium后面800平方英尺的小空间，因为我们太成功而扩展到整个Atrium空间时，我们又拿了5000平方英尺——突然间，我不得不迅速制定一个计划，把自己打造成一个品牌。

But very quickly it turned, and then when the Kith, the small 800 square foot space in the back of atrium then expanded into the full atrium space because we were that successful, we took another 5,000 feet- All of a sudden, I had to quickly put a plan together around becoming a brand.

我在读《从零到一》这本书时，发现了一句我一直以来最喜欢的名言。

I found one of my all-time favorite quotes when I was reading the book "Zero to One."

那句话是："我注意到的最强大的一个模式是，成功的人会在意想不到的地方发现价值，他们这样做是通过从第一性原理而不是公式来思考商业。"

The quote says, "The single most powerful pattern I have noticed is that successful people find value in unexpected places, and they do this by thinking about business from first principles instead of formulas."

这正是AppLovin在广告平台上所做的。

That is exactly what AppLovin has done with their advertising platform.

AppLovin让你接触到移动游戏中超过十亿的潜在新客户。

AppLovin connects you with over a billion potential new customers in mobile games.

AppLovin让你能够抓住用户全部的注意力。

AppLovin allows you to capture undivided attention.

AppLovin广告是全屏视频，平均观看时长35秒。

AppLovin ads are full-screen videos that are watched for an average of 35 seconds.

这种留存率让其他广告平台望尘莫及，而且你几分钟内就能在AppLovin上开始投放。

That is retention that blows other ad platforms out of the water, and you can launch on AppLovin in minutes.

你设定目标，AppLovin帮你实现。

You set the goal, and AppLovin achieves it.

无需复杂设置，也不需要专业知识。

No complex setup, no expertise needed.

而且AppLovin能快速扩展。

And AppLovin scales quickly.

他们能把你的广告展示给超过十亿的潜在客户。

They can put your ads in front of over a billion potential customers.

其他企业已经看到了立竿见影的效果，日投放额达到数十万美元，收入增加了数百万。

Other businesses have seen immediate results, scaled to hundreds of thousands of dollars of spend per day, and increased their revenue by millions.

所以，趁你的竞争对手还没都上AppLovin，赶紧开始吧。你可以访问AppLovin.com。

So you want to get started quickly before all of your competitors are on AppLovin, and you can do that by going to AppLovin.com.

就是AppLovin.com。

That's AppLovin.com.

你当时只有800平方英尺的时候，店里卖什么？

When you were 800 square feet, what are you selling in the store?

只卖鞋，衣服就是顺带卖一点。

Only footwear, and then apparel was like a wrap.

但那些鞋是不是只是——

But are these footwear that are only-

不是

No

……你做的那些联名款？

... the collaborations you're doing?

不是。

No.

还是跟你在David的时候一样，联名款占比很小？

It's still the same thing when you were at David, small percentage collaboration?

David并不是顶级的产品分销商。

David was not a top-tier distributor of product.

好的。

Okay.

或者说是产品的零售商。

Or retailer of product.

大卫那边主要是产品的常规目录，而我开这家店，就是为了拿到我所代理的所有品牌中最顶级的货源。

David had main catalogs of product, and then I opened this store strictly to have the top tier of distribution from all of the brands I was carrying.

因为这些品牌——

Because all these brands-

顶级货源是什么意思？

What does that mean, top tier distribution?

我来解释一下。

I'll explain.

好的。

Okay.

比如说，最容易解释的就是耐克。

So, for example, and the easiest one to explain would be Nike.

耐克有一个叫零级的东西，然后他们甚至还有快速打击，那是在零级之下的。

Nike has what's called a tier zero, and then they even have quick strikes, which are below tier zero.

所以零级是他们生产的最限量产品，快速打击是第二层，然后还有主线系列，那是迪克体育用品可以采购的目录。

So tier zero would be the most limited product they make, quick strike would be the second layer to that, and then you have the mainline collection, which is a catalog that a Dick's Sporting Goods gets to buy into.

明白吗？

Okay?

Kith空间的核心概念就是要拥有世界上最好的球鞋墙，那会包含顶级产品，而且那是在这个还没那么流行的时候。

The whole premise behind the Kith space was to have the best footwear wall in the world, and that was going to have top tier, and this is at a time where it wasn't this popular.

从那以后，球鞋文化发展了很多。

Sneaker culture grew a ton since then.

但就是所有品牌的顶级分销。

But top tier distribution from all the brands.

那不是我发明的。

I didn't invent that.

球鞋精品店当时已经存在，但我想成为最好的，而且作为买手、陈列师和销售，我有足够的知识知道怎么做，并且策划出世界上最好的球鞋墙。

Sneaker boutiques were a thing, but I wanted to be the best of, and I had enough knowledge as a buyer, and as a merchandiser, and as a salesperson, I had enough knowledge of knowing how to do that and curate the best wall in the world.

好，所以你把这个行业的经验，加上你那时候已经收藏了十多年了——

Okay, so you combine this industry knowledge with the fact that at this point you're over 10 years deep into just being a-

一个收藏家

A collector

……一个收藏家。

... a collector.

从95年开始。

From '95.

对。

Exactly.

所以时间更长。

So even longer.

然后你把这两者结合起来——

So you then combine the two-

……开出了第一家Kith门店，也就是，再说一遍，800平方英尺。

... into the very first Kith store, which is, again, 800 square feet.

但因为我之前在David Z开店时建立的那些关系，还有从那些品牌进货的经历，我得以建立起很棒的合作关系，后来就为Kith和这些品牌一起开发产品。

But then I also, because of the relationships I'd built opening these accounts at David Z, and also buying from these accounts at David Z, I was able to build amazing relationships where I was then working on product with all these brands for Kith.

所以我们不仅拿到了这些品牌的高端分销权，还有我和这些品牌合作开发的联名产品。

So we had top-tier distribution from these brands, but then we also had collaborative product that I was working with these brands on.

所以我们的产品非常限量，这吸引人们为了特别的产品而来，但他们也是为了看这些品牌发布的新品而来。

So we had very limited product, and that was keeping people coming to the door for very special product, but they were also coming to the door to see the special product that these brands were releasing.

所以这些品牌都有重要的发布日，我们是其中主要的零售商之一……

So there were major release dates for all these brands for different product, and we were one of the...

我相信你听说过Virgil。

I'm sure you heard of Virgil.

Virgil和Nike合作推出了很棒的产品。

Virgil and Nike worked on incredible product.

Kith是美国主要销售这些产品的零售商之一。

Kith was one of the main retailers to carry that product in the States.

还有比如Adidas的Yeezy产品。

And then Yeezy product with Adidas, for example.

还有很多其他产品也属于这个档次，Kith 成了大家来买这些产品的首选地。

There are a lot of other products that sit within that tier where Kith would become the main destination for people to come and buy those products.

我们围绕这个建立了一个社区。

And we built a community around that.

然后从那时起，服装开始以那样的速度销售，我们自有品牌、时尚品牌 Kith 的增长，超过了我们对其他任何东西的需求。

And then from that point where apparel started to sell at the rate that it was, the growth that we had for our brand, for our house brand, for our fashion brand, for Kith, was surpassing any demand that we had for anything else.

所以当我们开始开更多店的时候，我们就为不同城市的社区提供了这些产品。

So as we started to open up more doors, we then had that offering for different communities in different cities.

随着我们看到了不同门店的成功，我们意识到我们的影响力是全球性的。

And as we saw the success of the different stores, we understood that our reach was global.

比如今天，当我们发布产品时，就像我们刚刚和宝马合作了一个大项目。

And today, for example, when we have a release of product, like we just released a big project with BMW.

那大概是一个月前的事了。

That was about a month ago, I would say.

那是我刚才在外面看到的吗？

Is that what I just saw outside?

那是上一个项目的。

That's from the last project.

好的。

Okay.

你在外面看到的那辆。

The one you saw outside.

其他人能买到吗，还是你自己定制的？

Can other people buy that, or is that something you did custom for yourself?

不，我们只做了47辆。

No, we had 47 of those made.

好的。

Okay.

47代表M1和XM之间的年份，因为那是宝马仅有的两款一次性M车型。

And 47 stood for the years between the M1 and the XM, because those are the only two one-off M cars that BMW ever created.

好的。

Okay.

比如说，你可以买一辆X5，会有X5 M版本，但也有普通的X5。

So for example, you could get an X5, and there'll be an X5 M, but there's a regular X5.

而XM这款车，只有M版本。

For the XM, it was only a M version of that car.

M1也是，只有M版本。

For the M1, there was only an M version of that car.

所以两者相隔47年，我们做了47辆XM。

So 47 years between them, and we made 47 of those XM's.

那47辆里有一辆是你的？

And you have one of the 47?

我刚才看到的就是那辆？

That's what I just saw?

对，没错。

Correct, yeah.

好的，明白了。

Okay, got it.

47辆里我有两辆，因为这款车有紫色和黑色，我各有一辆。

I have two of the 47, because it came in purple and black, and I have one of each.

你当然两辆都有。

Of course you have both.

那当然。

Of course I do.

所以当我们和宝马合作时，我提这个是因为在全球范围内，首尔、东京、法国、伦敦、纽约、迈阿密、洛杉矶、达拉斯、芝加哥，我们全球每一家门店外面都会排起长队。

So when we worked with BMW, I'm bringing this up because globally, in Seoul, Tokyo, France, London, New York, Miami, LA, Dallas, Chicago, there'll be lines outside of every door that we have globally.

我知道，很少有公司能做到这样，在不同城市都有这样的需求，发布新品时，发布当天店外就排起长队。

Now, I know that there are very few companies that do that, that have the demand in different cities and release something, and on release date, you have lines outside the space.

我知道还有其他品牌也能做到，但我从不把这当成理所当然。

I know that there are other brands that do that, but I don't ever take that for granted.

所以我们知道我们有全球影响力，而且现在，凭借品牌的力量和我想要超越产品本身去发展的雄心，Kith Ivy就诞生了。

So we know that we have global reach, and at this point, with the power that the brand has and the ambition that I have to grow outside of just product, that's where Kith Ivy is born.

解释一下Kith Ivy是什么。

Explain what Kith Ivy is.

Kith Ivy 是一个会员俱乐部，面向狂热的板式网球爱好者，也面向那些想要享受水疗服务的人，一个非常高端的水疗中心。

Kith Ivy is a membership club For avid padel players, but also for people who want access to a spa, a very elevated spa.

还有一个带观景体验的私人餐厅，还有健身房，还有商店。

And there's a private dining room with a viewing experience, and there's a gym, and there's a shop.

它在翠贝卡一栋楼的顶层，占地一万六千平方英尺，楼上还有三个可以打板式网球的球场。

It's 16,000 square feet in the top floor of a building in Tribeca, and then there's three courts that people can play padel on upstairs.

然后我们还在那个空间里开了一家 Erewhon 果汁吧，是纽约第一家 Erewhon 果汁吧。

And then we also have an Erewhon juice bar, the first Erewhon juice bar in New York, in that space.

那个一出来就火了。

That went viral when it came out.

对，确实。

Yeah, for sure.

这大概是在我们认识之前的事。

This is before me and you maybe even met.

我当时就觉得，到处都能看到那个。

And I was just like, I saw that everywhere.

那真是太疯狂了。

It was pretty insane.

那个地方后来变得特别有意义，尤其是对我个人来说。

And that has become a really special place, especially for me.

在设计这个空间的时候，我其实首先是为自己打造的，就像我做其他事情一样。

And when thinking about the space, I really built it first for me, like I do with anything else.

不管是产品还是空间，我都先为自己做，因为我知道我对品牌的眼光和视角，十五年来一直保持一致。

Whether it's a product or a space, I'm doing it for myself first because I know that my eye for the brand, and the lens, has been a consistent lens for 15 years.

这通过酒店服务的视角扩展了品牌的可能性。

That expanded what the brand can do through a hospitality lens.

我现在很喜欢这部分业务。

I love that portion of the business now.

这个想法后来也渗透到了我现在做的Ronnie's项目里。

And that idea then started to trickle into what I'm doing now with Ronnie's.

Ronnie's是伦敦的一家高档餐厅，而Ronnie's Pronto是西好莱坞的一家带窗户和露台的美食三明治店。

So Ronnie's is a fine dining restaurant in London, and Ronnie's Pronto is a gourmet sandwich shop with a window and a patio in West Hollywood.

现在我有了计划，打算把这一模式带到纽约，我正在推进这件事，预计这个月底就能实现。

And now I have plans on what I'm going to do to bring that to New York, which I'm working on now, which will end up happening at the end of this month.

我这里有一本书，里面收录了1800个设计，因为我在鞋类上花了很多时间。

As I have a book here that speaks to 1,800 designs, because I spend a lot of time on footwear.

鞋类一直是核心，但现在在业务中占比小了很多，因为Kith的产品已经全面超越了我们在品牌上做过的任何东西。

Footwear has always been the anchor, but now serves as a much smaller piece of the business because the Kith product has surpassed anything that we've done categorically in the brand.

但随着我们进入餐饮服务领域，我看到了产品之外的增长机会，我觉得这就是品牌未来的方向。

But as we get into hospitality and I see the opportunity of growth outside of product, that's what I think the future of the brand will look like.

未来会有多个产品之外的业务类别。

There'll be multiple categories that sit outside of product.

哪个业务更赚钱？

What's the better business?

我知道你不是为了钱做这些的。

I know you're not doing this for money.

显然，你非常成功，但在我看来，产品业务不是比餐饮服务更赚钱吗？还是我理解错了？

Obviously, you're very successful, but to me, wouldn't product be a better financially performing business than hospitality, or am I wrong on that?

不，你说得对。

No, you're right on that.

好的。

Okay.

你说得对。

You're right.

今天你说得对。

You're right today.

今天你说得对，对我的生意来说。

You're right today for my business.

明白了。

Got it.

所以，就像我给了品牌一个自然成长、发挥最大潜力的机会一样，我也在其他的业务领域播下更大的种子，打算让它们自然、真实地成长。

So, like I gave the brand the opportunity to grow organically and maximize its potential, I'm planting larger seeds in other categories of business that I plan on growing organically and authentically.

我不会强行推动增长，但如果我觉得需求超出了我目前所做的，我就会尝试去扩展它。

I won't force the growth, but if I feel like there is demand above and beyond what it is that I'm doing, I'm going to try to expand that.

我觉得我们为住在翠贝卡附近的人提供了这种体验。

And I think that we've provided this experience for people who live in that area near Tribeca.

我觉得Kith Ivy已经变了。

I think that Kith Ivy has changed.

我知道我自己也变了，因为有人告诉我，那个地方真的改变了他们在那里的生活。

I know that I have, I don't think, because people have told me that that space has literally changed their lives living there.

因为以前要体验那种感觉，你得跑到城外，甚至可能离开纽约。

Because for that kind of experience, you used to have to travel outside the city, outside New York maybe.

所以，我觉得以这种方式打破常规，以及我们出现的方式引起争议，是我们做事基因的一部分，因为我们也在尝试颠覆其他商业类别。

So, I think that being disruptive in the way that that is, and being polarizing in the way that we show up, is a part of the DNA of what we do, as we try to disrupt other categories of business.

但如果你不了解我是做什么的，我很难跟你讲那些表面之下两三层的故事。

But it's hard for me to describe and get into stories that sit two or three layers under the surface if you don't first understand what it is that I do.

我很好奇的一个点是这个非常独特的决定。

One thing I am curious about is this very unique decision.

为什么要开Kith Treats？

Why put in Kith Treats?

这个想法是从哪里来的？

Where did that idea come from?

你早就这么做了。

You did it early.

但这个想法到底是怎么来的？

But where did that idea come from?

为什么要这么做呢？

Why even do that?

当我扩建布鲁克林的空间时，我想加入一个能带来快乐的元素，让人吃到那一口时百分之百会开心，然后笑起来。

When I expanded the Brooklyn space, I wanted to add an element of happiness where it would 100% undoubtedly be a happy bite of something, so you'd smile.

我还想让人们有另一种方式，用不到十美元就能体验这个品牌。

And I wanted there to be another way for people to consume the brand, for less than $10.

这就是我的想法。

That was the idea.

而且我知道这会是个亏本生意，或者说我以为会亏本。

And I knew that it would be a loss leader, or I thought it would be a loss leader.

所以最初，我打算做一个白巧克力面包空间，我第一次是在地中海俱乐部尝到的。

So originally, it was going to be a white chocolate bread space that I had for the first time in Club Med.

白巧克力面包空间？

White chocolate bread space?

所以如果——

So if-

什么？

What?

我经常去地中海俱乐部度假，那里的食堂有一种非常有名的白巧克力面包。

I traveled to Club Med for vacation a bunch, and there in the cafeteria, there's this very famous white chocolate bread.

我在那里尝过，非常喜欢，然后就有了在店里做餐饮部分的想法。

And I had it there and loved it, and thought of the concept for even having some kind of F&B portion of the store.

我就是从那里想到这个概念的。

That's where I came up with the concept.

我当时就想，"人们得闻闻这个味道。"

I was like, "People need to smell this."

因为一走进食堂，你闻到的全是那个味道。

Because when you walk into the cafeteria, it was all you smelled.

我希望人们路过店铺时也能闻到这个味道。

People need to smell it as you're walking past the store.

所以从建筑里排出的气味，我想让人们闻到白巧克力面包的香味。

So the venting out from the building, I wanted people to smell the white chocolate bread.

所以我把那位厨师带到了纽约，我们开始在春天街和百老汇街的Cafe Bari一起研发这款白巧克力面包。

So I brought the chef over to New York, and we started working on this white chocolate bread back at Cafe Bari on Spring and Broadway.

在它变成耐克店之前，那是一家非常著名的咖啡馆。

Before it became the Nike store, it was a very famous cafe.

后来厨师走了，我们试着自己做，但就是做不出那个味道。

The chef left, and we tried to make it ourselves, and we just couldn't make it right.

所以当我们走向熟食店的时候，我看到柜台后面的那个人把冷冻水果倒进机器里，拉了一下杆，出来的就是软冰淇淋。

So as we're walking to the deli, I'm watching this guy behind the counter throw frozen fruit into this machine and pull the lever, and it was coming out soft serve.

然后我看到了一盒麦片。

So I saw a box of cereal.