托尼·徐，DoorDash

你还有另一个有趣的引述，我想读给你听。

You had another interesting quote I wanted read to you.

你说，达达之所以能取得如此大的成功，是因为成千上万次的试错，其中95%甚至从未到达顾客手中就失败了。

You say that the way that DoorDash has achieved so much success is tens of thousands of experience, 95% of which never even make it to the customer before they fail.

要提高配送的准确性，可能需要比你想象中更深入、更细致的细节。

The way to get more accurate on a delivery probably requires some level of detail that is lower and deeper than you realize.

你能解释一下你这句话背后的含义吗？

Can you explain what you meant behind that statement?

这又要从我们亲自去做这项工作说起，我们意识到，如果你真的想准时完成任务，刚开始时，光是站在外面做理论分析，很容易以为问题很简单。

This again starts from actually doing the work ourselves and realizing that if you actually want to get something on time, I think it's very easy to think about when you're just intellectualizing it on the outside when we're getting started.

哦，可能是交通问题，或者食物准备时间比预期长，诸如此类的原因。

Oh, maybe there's a traffic issue or maybe, oh, the food is taking longer than it should, whatever the reasons might be.

但除非你亲自去执行，否则你根本不知道一个订单中到底有哪些延迟来源。

But you actually have no idea actually what are all the sources of delay in an order until you actually go and do the work.

当然，有些问题你可能在外面就能想到。

Sure, there might be some of the issues that I think you can think about on the outside.

但很快你就会意识到，每一个环节都存在数秒的延迟。

But then very, very quickly, you realize that there's a lot of seconds of delay in every emotion.

事实上，你可以将一次配送分解为大约20个步骤。

In fact, there's about 20 steps you can decompose a delivery into.

而在每一个步骤中都会出现延迟。

And there's delays at each one of those moments.

如果配送地点不在餐厅内，情况会更加复杂。

And that's even more complicated if the delivery today is they happen outside of restaurants.

配送可能发生在超市或零售商品等购物场景中。

They happen inside shopping contexts like groceries or retail items.

或者发生在多层商场里，有时在地下，有时在地面以上。

Or if they happen inside malls that are multi story, sometimes below ground, sometimes above ground.

你开始意识到，原来导致延迟的原因真的非常多。

And one of the things you start realizing is, wow, actually, there are a lot of causes for delays.

除非你真正亲身体验过，否则根本不可能了解所有这些原因。

And there's no way that you're going to know about all of them until you literally actually encounter it for the first time.

DoorDash 难就难在，我们试图在一个混乱的世界中构建一个结构化的数据集。

A lot of what's difficult about DoorDash is we're trying to build a structured data set in a world that is chaos.

这就是现实世界。

That's the physical world.

之所以会有这么多错误、延迟和成本的来源，最终影响到客户的体验好坏，是因为根本不存在现成的数据。

One of the reasons why there's all these sources for mistakes, for delays, for costs that ultimately yield into costs and good or bad experiences for customers is because there is no data that exists.

没有像谷歌这样的公司为你整理好的优质数据集，因为这些都是物理世界的信息。

There is no nice data set that a company like Google or somebody else has organized for you because it's all physical information.

这些信息还在不断变化。

Information and it's also changing all the time.

当你走进一家杂货店，有人把苹果从6号通道移到8号通道，这种情况总会被记录下来吗？

When you go into a grocery store and somebody moves an apple from Aisle 6 to Aisle 8, is that always going to get documented?

当然不会。

Of course not.

这些正是我们每天都要应对的问题。

Those are the kinds of things we have to work on every single day.

而你根本不会知道这一点。

And you wouldn't know that.

如果我告诉你，延误的原因是那天有人想家了，你会怎么想？

What if I told you the cause for a delay was because actually somebody was homesick that day?

在这件事真正发生之前，你怎么可能知道呢？

How would you know that actually until that event actually transpired?

如果这种情况发生，你会如何应对？而这种情况每天都会发生。

And what would you do to respond to that event if that were to occur, which happens every single day?

当我们每天处理数百万笔订单时，百万分之一的概率事件也会频繁发生。

When we're doing millions of orders every single day, the one in a million event happens a lot.

而千分之一的概率事件发生的频率远高于此。

And the one in a thousand event happens way more than that.

因此，要构建一个系统，理想情况下能够检测并预防这些问题，同时还要具备极快的反应能力，像应急响应系统一样，在问题真正出现时迅速修复，这需要不断重复工作，构建一个能够随着时间推移不断学习、不断改进的系统。

And so building a system that can ideally detect and prevent these issues, but then also a very fast twitch muscle to actually be able to build this almost like an emergency response system when something actually goes awry to fix it, that requires doing the work over and again and building the system that can learn over time to get better and better and better.

大多数时候，我们根本一无所知。

Most of the time, have no idea.

我们从这些实验开始，因此大多数实验都会失败。

We start with these experiments and that's why most experiments fail.

但当你从中获得足够多的成果时，如果能在一年内让数以万计的实验中有5%成功，那将为明年所有用户带来巨大收益。

But when you get enough goodness out of it, if you can get the 5% out of tens of thousands of experiments to work in one year, that has the benefit on all of your audience for the next year.

然后你只需持续下去，这会为所有用户带来复利式的额外收益。

Then you just keep going, and that adds compounding surplus for all of the audiences.

Deel 将帮助您的企业在全球任何地方招聘、支付和管理员工。

Deel will help your business hire, pay, and manage any worker anywhere in the world.

Deel 是全球招聘基础设施建设领域最出色的公司。

Deel is the best company in the world at building infrastructure for global hiring.

Deel 是一个平台，支持在150个国家进行薪资、人力资源、福利和设备管理。

Deel is one platform for payroll, HR, benefits, and device management across 150 countries.

Deel 为您提供一切所需，让您在一个原生AI平台上高效运行全球团队。

Deel gets you everything you need to run a high performing global workforce on a single AI native platform.

从首次录用到最终离职，Deel 处理所有复杂事务，让您专注于业务本身。

From first offer to final off boarding, Deel handles the complexity so you can stay focused on your business.

世界上最好的创始人和运营者有一个共同点。

The best founders and operators in the world have one thing in common.

他们尽可能掌控自己的业务，而Deel的创始人正是如此。

They control as much of their business as possible, and the founders of Deel do exactly this.

当你使用Deel时，你并不是在使用第三方薪资处理服务商或混乱的本地供应商网络。

When you use Deel, you aren't using a third party payroll processor or a messy network of in country providers.

Deel构建并拥有整个基础设施。

Deel built and owns the rails.

这意味着更快的速度、更好的服务和完全的责任制。

That means faster speed, better service, and total accountability.

我用来为这个播客生成字幕的Eleven Labs的创始人，对Deel能给你的公司带来的价值有一个很好的描述。

The founder of Eleven Labs, who I use to make transcripts for this podcast, has a great description of the value that Deel can give your company.

他说，我们创建Eleven Labs是为了打破语言和沟通障碍。

He said, we built Eleven Labs to break down language and communication barriers.

借助Deel，我们能够在任何地方招聘和支持卓越人才，从而加速创新，让更多的声音、故事和想法传遍世界的每个角落。

With Deel enabling us to hire and support exceptional talent anywhere, we can accelerate our innovation and bring more voices, stories, and ideas to every corner of the world.

Deel 已获得超过四万家客户的信赖，并且正在快速增长。

Deel is trusted by over 40,000 customers and growing fast.

请前往 deal.com/senra 了解他们如何帮助您的企业。

Learn how they can help your business by going to deal.com/senra.

就是 deal.com/senra。

That is deal.com/senra.

不过，您是怎么进行这么多实验的呢？

How do you do that many experiments, though?

这是按年进行的吗？

Is this a yearly basis?

这是指 DoorDash 整个发展历程中的情况吗？

Is this like over the history of DoorDash?

意思是您每年都在运行成千上万的实验？

Like you're running thousands of experiments every year?

理想情况下是这样的。

Ideally.

是的，没错。

Yeah, yes.

我认为，当我们表现最佳时，正是这种情况在发生。

I think when we are at our best, that's what's happening.

但这始于建立一个真正渴望学习的系统。

But it starts with actually building a system that actually wants to learn.

如果你仔细想想，为什么我们必须学习呢？

If you think about it, like, why do we have to learn?

这是因为物理世界，首先，是没有结构的。

It's because the physical world, A, is not structured.

它 nowhere 被记录下来。

It's not documented anywhere.

你无法抓取它。

You can't scrape it.

它在不断变化。

It's constantly changing.

例如，现在东北地区正经历一场冬季风暴。

There's a winter storm right now, for example, in the Northeast.

这些事情都是以不同方式发生的。

These are all things that happen differently.

这里加利福尼亚的天气真美。

It's beautiful here in California.

是的，我知道。

Yeah, I know.

我们在这里根本无从得知。

We would have no idea here.

我们在湾区过得太安逸了。

We're spoiled here in the Bay Area.

但总的来说，这些事情每天每时每刻都在发生。

But in general, all these things are happening every single hour of the day.

好吧，今天可能会漏掉一些内容。

Okay, there's going to be some missing item today.

今天有一个订单花了比平时长得多的时间。

There's going to be some order that took a lot longer today.

我们可能会误入某个公寓大楼的错误入口。

There's going to be some incorrect gate we entered at an apartment complex.

会有配送员在这家办公楼的楼梯上迷路。

There's going to be some dasher who's going to get lost coming up the stairs of this office building.

这肯定会发生。

There will be, guaranteed.

所以问题在于，如果你能构建一个系统来学习如何处理这些情况，那么试图弄清楚所有这些细节几乎是不可能的。

And so the question is like, well, it would be impossible to try to figure out all of that if you can build a system to learn how to do this.

因此，最重要的是构建系统。

So the most important thing is actually building systems.

在DoorDash，构建系统实际上始于以一种非常操作性、临时性、不具扩展性的方式进行测试，然后将最终有效的方法和想法提炼出来，围绕它们打造产品，并对真正有效的方案进行工程化，从而让这个学习循环变得非常高效。

And building a system that at DoorDash really starts with testing things in a very operational hacky, do things that don't scale kind of way, and to then taking the things that ultimately work, the ideas, and actually building products around them, and then engineering the ones that actually work so that you're actually very efficient with this learning loop.

这样你才能从学习快速过渡到交付真正有效的产品，因为我们工程师数量有限，能交付的项目也有限，尤其是在高风险的情况下。

So that you can go from learning to shipping something that actually works because it's a resource constraint with how many engineers we have and how many things that we can actually ship, especially when the stakes are high.

你希望让这个循环尽可能紧密和快速。

You want to make that loop as tight and as fast as possible.

这就是你构建一个能够学习成千上万件事的系统的方法。

That's how you build a system in which you can learn thousands of things.

你只需要不断重复去做。

You just have to keep doing it over and over.

我们的业务理念是，我们必须每天重新赢得为你服务的权利。

Our business is one where we believe we have to earn the right to serve you the next day.

即使你今天在我们这里下了单，非常感谢你的支持，我们仍需再次争取。

Even though you ordered with us today, thank you very much for your business, we have to earn it again.

明天的评分表会清零，我们必须重新开始这一切。

The scoreboard goes back down to zero tomorrow, We have to just do that all over again.

你是在哪里学到这一点的重要性？

Where did you learn the importance of that?

什么？

Of what?

每天重新开始？

Of starting over again every day?

我以前就听过你说过这个，我非常喜欢这个理念。

I've heard you say that before and I love that idea.

在DoorDash早期，我们就意识到维持用户的信任有多难，而失去信任却有多容易。

Very early at DoorDash, we learned how hard it is to keep someone's trust and how easy it is to lose it.

我想我可能以前说过，但有一次斯坦福的橄榄球比赛，我们失去了大量信任，因为路上司机不够，所有配送都延迟了，而且我们无法关闭网站。

And I think I may have said this before, but there was a Stanford football game in which we lost a lot of trust, where we were late on every single delivery because we didn't have enough drivers on the road, we had no ability to shut down the website.

但类似的情况我们经历过很多次。

But we had a lot of those

不同的是，停一下。

different Pause there.

那么在DoorDash的历史中，这场比赛是什么时候？

So where in DoorDash history is this game?

这是我们的第三个月，2013年9月的一个星期六。

This is the third month of our operations, September 2013, where it was a Saturday.

我们无法处理涌入的订单。

We had no ability to fulfill the orders that came in.

我们甚至无法关闭网站，因此根本无法阻止订单洪流。

We had no ability to even shut down the website, so we couldn't even stop the floodgates.

通常为什么

And usually Why

为什么三个月就出现订单洪流了？

were you having floodgates three months in?

我们并不是在三个月后出现订单洪流，而是在那一天特定发生。

We had floodgates not three months in, on that day specifically.

不知什么原因，由于比赛结束的时间，人们纷纷在帕洛阿尔托订购多拉什晚餐，订单量急剧飙升。

For whatever reason, because of when the game ended, people wanted to order DoorDash for dinner in And Palo for whatever reason, that volume spiked pretty hard.

我们既无法关闭系统，也无法完成配送。

We had no ability to turn it off and no ability to fulfill.

因此，每单配送都至少晚了一个小时。

So we were late by at least an hour on every single delivery.

我认为，当你经历过这样的事情，而且不是一次两次，而是在DoorDash我们经历过很多类似的情况。

I think when you go through experiences like that, but not just once, but we've had a lot of those kinds of experiences at DoorDash.

我每天仍然在做客户服务。

I still do customer support every day.

我每天都能亲眼看到这些情况。

I see them literally every single day.

当你看到仅仅一个订单就可能失去客户的信任时，你就明白，第二天必须重新赢得他们的信任。

When you see that you can lose someone's trust on one order, you realize that you got to earn it again the next day.

根本不存在那种‘设置好就不管了’的心态。

And there is no such thing as this, you know, just set it and forget it kind of mentality.

是的，这种意识很大程度上源于早期阶段，但我觉得，当我每天做客户服务时，这种日常提醒也是一种很好的强化机制。

Yeah, that came a lot from the early days, but I think this daily reminder when I do customer support is also another great reinforcing function.

那晚比赛结束后发生了什么？

So what happened that night of the game?

我们每一份配送都延迟了。

We were late on every single delivery.

我想那时候大概是晚上10点左右，我们正在计算如果要弥补过失、把钱退给每个人，总共需要退还多少退款。

And I think it was probably somewhere around 10PM or something where we're tallying up all the refunds that it would cost us if we wanted to make right and give back everybody their money.

客户有要求退款吗？

Were the customers asking for the refunds?

没有，没有。

No, no

没人提出要求。

one was asking.

根本没人要求任何东西。

No one was asking for anything.

那天晚上结束了，我们完成了最后一单配送，然后说：好吧，这真是糟糕的一晚。

The night was over, we finished our last delivery and we said, okay, that was a terrible night.

我们接下来该怎么办？

What are we going do about it?

我们本可以抱怨这些订单什么的，但归根结底，我觉得在很短的时间内——大概十五秒内，我们就决定好了：我们必须对客户负责。

We could complain about the orders or something, but at the end of the day, I think within a very short period of time, fifteen seconds, we decided, okay, we got to make right by the customer.

我们必须给每个人退款。

We got to refund everybody.

问题是，当时我们一分钱都没有。

Now, the complication is we had no money at the time.

我很难筹集到这笔资金，这对我来说是个常态。

I was having a hard time raising this is a pattern for me.

在公司最初的几年里，我一直很难筹集到资本。

I've had a hard time raising capital for the company in the earliest years.

这从一开始就开始了。

That started right from the beginning.

我们当时只剩下两三周的现金了。

We were maybe two or three weeks of cash out.

这笔退款将耗掉我们银行账户约40%的资金。

And this refund would have cost us about 40% of the bank account.

这会让原本只剩两三周的现金流，进一步缩短到更少的天数。

It would have just made the two or three weeks and just shrunk that into even fewer days.

但你说得对，没人向我们要求退款。

But yeah, you're right, nobody asked us for the refunds.

我肯定他们很生气，但没人提出来。

I'm sure they were pissed, but nobody asked.

我们立刻办理了退款，然后那晚真的一直在烤饼干，大约五点的时候送了出去。

We did the refund right away and then we stayed up that night actually baking cookies And we delivered those cookies at around five a.

早上。

M.

在我们以为顾客会醒来之前。

Before we thought when customers would wake.

我们的理念是，宁愿在追求卓越的过程中失败，也不愿平庸地活着，做些自己都不引以为豪的事。

And the idea was we'd rather die trying to be excellent or at least die trying to do the thing that we want to stand for than to live to be mediocre and not something that we'd be proud of.

我们就是这么做的。

And that's what we did.

这太棒了。

That's excellent.

所以给我多讲讲关于构建这个自我强化的学习系统的事。

So tell me more about building the system, the self reinforcing, like, learning system.

你看，这些事情往往是逐渐发生的。

Look, these things kind of happen

一步一步来。

in steps.

最初是我们四个人亲自送餐。

It started with the four of us doing the deliveries.

好吧，我们可以继续自己送餐，但迟早会遇到规模问题。

Okay, well, we can keep doing the deliveries, but at some point, we're going to start running into scale issues.

四个人能做的配送是有限的。

Mean, four people can only do so many deliveries.

所以自然地，我们会开始招募骑手、吸引消费者、拓展餐厅合作。

So of course, we're going to start recruiting dashers, we're going start recruiting consumers, selling restaurants.

当你亲自送餐时，就会逐渐意识到必须开发产品来支撑规模化。

And you start noticing as you do the deliveries, well, you have to build products to scale yourself.

这是第一点。

That's one.

第二，你会开始注意到所有的问题。

Two, you also just start noticing all the problems.

每当看到一个问题反复出现超过一次，你就会对自己说，也许这是一个我们应该为此构建解决方案，或者开展实验来看看是否能真正解决的问题。

And whenever you see a problem recur more than once, you would say to yourself, maybe that's an example of a problem that we should actually build something for or actually run an experiment to see if we could actually solve.

我认为在很早的时候，行动导向就演变成了这种实验思维。

I think very early on, the bias for action turned into this experimentation mentality.

当时我们没有任何组织结构之类的东西。

Now, we didn't have any organizations at the time or anything like that.

只是有几个人在我公寓里。

Was just a few of us in my apartment.

并不是说，哦，我所谈论的是一个严谨的系统。

It wasn't like, okay, there's this rigorous system that I'm talking about.

不过，这可能是我们最初如何思考的雏形：从做那些无法扩展的事情，到识别需要验证的假设，再到开展实验，最后推出产品。

That's probably the earliest inklings though of how we thought about, okay, you can go from doing things that don't scale to identifying hypotheses to test, to then running experiments and then to shipping products.

那可能是公司最早期的时候，也就是第一年。

That was probably the earliest time, the first year of the company.

再往后推一年，当我们开始进入多个城市时，各个城市的总经理都会向我汇报，比如有人负责波士顿，有人负责达拉斯，有人负责其他城市。

You fast forward maybe a year as we started launching into multiple cities, all of the general managers of different cities, so you could be running Boston, someone else is running Dallas, someone else is running a different city.

他们都会向我汇报工作。

They would be reporting into me.

于是你开始发现，从城市A到城市B再到城市C，其实出现了一些模式，但这些模式仍然具有很强的地域性。

And you start seeing that, oh, okay, well, patterns actually emerge from city A to city B to city C, But they're still quite local.

比如在波士顿，汽车数量很少。

They're slightly for example, in Boston, there's not a lot of cars.

波士顿的汽车拥有率在美国是最低的之一，与其他地方相比。

Car ownership is one of the lowest in Boston in The United States versus other places.

由于这座城市的历史原因，其环形加放射状的交通结构导致了一些奇特的设置，这些设置实际上违背了我之前描述的模式。

There's some strange setups because of the historic nature of the city in terms of that hub and spoke nature I was describing that actually violate that setup.

因此，各地都有独特的细节，你开始意识到：我该如何把这种不具规模性的做事方式，转化为一套可推广的机制，让每个人都能实施我们已知有效的功能，从而同时开展更多实验？

So there are like local nuances and you start realizing, well, okay, well, how do I actually teach this way of doing things that don't scale all the way to shipping some feature that we know is going to work to each one of these people so that we could run more experiments at the same time?

然后我们会开发更多跨越这些不同模式的产品。

Then we would just build more products that would actually go across all of these different patterns.

这就是这个东西多年来演变的方式：你最初从某种基本的科学流程开始。

That's how this thing has morphed over the years where you basically start with some basic scientific process, if you will.

当你到达某个节点时，就必须找出下一个迭代版本，以实现这一流程的规模化。

You meet some point in which you have to figure out the next iteration in order to scale that process.

然后你就持续不断地推进下去。

And then you just keep that going.

你始终在测试是否为顾客带来了更好的体验。

And you're always testing against whether or not you're delivering better for customers.

无论这个流程是否真正产生了影响，这都将是你的北极星指标。

That's always going to be the North Star metric whether or not this process is actually making a difference or not.

如果更快、更便宜、更高效，这对顾客来说会更好吗？

Is it better for customers if it's faster, cheaper, more efficient?

比如，哪些方面是

Like what are the

是的，以上所有都是。

Yeah, it's all of the above.

所以你看，客户们，我说了，这个生意很难，因为客户们不幸地不会只从一个维度来评判我们。

So look, customers, I mean, this business is tough because customers unfortunately don't just judge us on one dimension.

有些客户，所有客户都希望拥有最广泛的选择。

Some customers, all customers want the widest available selection.

他们希望得到他们能想到的每一件商品。

They want every item they can get delivered.

他们希望价格尽可能低。

They want the lowest possible price.

他们希望配送速度尽可能快。

They want the fastest possible delivery.

他们当然希望没有任何错误。

They want obviously no mistakes.

他们绝对期望准时送达。

They absolutely expect it to be on time.

如果出了什么问题，当然他们应该得到正确的对待。

Then if something were to go wrong, of course they deserve to be treated correctly.

我们每一次订单都会在所有这些方面受到评判。

We get judged on all of those things on every single order.

这就是说，你可以围绕那些不变的东西来建立一个企业。

This is this idea of like you can build a business around things that don't change.

是的。

Yes.

从顾客的角度来看，对于DoorDash来说，哪些东西是不变的呢？

What are the things that don't change from the customer's perspective for DoorDash then?

顾客始终希望有更多、更丰富的选择。

Customers are always going to want more and more selection.

他们始终希望有更高的性价比。

They're going to always want more and more affordability.

他们希望配送更快。

They're going to want faster deliveries.

这就像亚马逊，几乎是亚马逊的完全镜像。

This is like Amazon, almost the exact mirror of what Amazon

我认为，当你只是想想人们想要什么时，实际上这很简单，因为我们自己就能扮演这个角色。

Well, I think when you just think about what people want, I actually think it's pretty easy because we can play that role ourselves.

是的，我认为你只需要问一些非常基本的问题，比如某些趋势的发展方向是什么？

Yeah, I think you just ask you can ask very basic questions about what's the direction of travel of certain things?

例如，你认为人们会期待更多的便利，还是更少的便利？

For example, do you think people are going to expect more convenience or less convenience?

尤其是在一个你认为人们收入在增加的世界里——无论是今天相比过去，还是明天相比今天，你觉得他们会怎么花这些钱？

Especially in a world where you think that people are earning more, whether it's today versus the past, tomorrow versus today, what do you think they're going to do with those dollars?

是会更多地用于消费吗？

Is it going to go more towards consumption?

他们是会期待或要求更多的便利，还是更少的便利？

Are they going to expect or demand more convenience or less?

我认为，当你开始大声提出这些问题时，你会得到一些常识性的答案，而这些答案正是你可以用来构建业务的基础。

I think when you start asking questions just out loud, you get the common sense answers in which you can build a business around.

我们早餐时和团队聊过这个话题。

We were talking about this with the crew at breakfast.

这就像，他们所展示的商业模式是人性中永远不会改变的特质，那就是我们想要更多的便利。

It's just like, well, they're corner showing their business is a trait in human nature that's never going to change, which is like we want more convenience.

是的，一直都是。

Yeah, always.

这其实并不复杂，我觉得。

It's not rocket science, I think.

真正复杂的是，你该如何实现它？

The rocket science is actually how do you make it happen?

是的，我喜欢这种想法——你把复杂性隐藏起来了。

Yeah, I love this idea of like you're hiding the complexity.

我曾和贝索斯一对一地聊了几个小时，我当然是他的超级粉丝。

I spent several hours with Bezos one on one, and I'm obviously a massive fan of his.

我已经做了关于他的15期节目。

I've done like 15 episodes on him.

他听我的另一个播客。

He listens to my other podcast.

我告诉他：‘老兄，你知道他们在华盛顿你家门前放了个断头台有多疯狂吗？’

I told him, was like, Dude, you know how crazy it is that they put a guillotine in front of your house in Washington?

我说：‘你创造了一个神奇的按钮，我一按，东西就压缩好了。’

I go, You made a magic button I compress.

我想要世界上任何东西，都能在两天内送到我家，现在甚至只要几个小时。

Anything I want in the world shows up to my house in two days, and now it's like a few hours.

我只需要按一下按钮，其余所有的复杂工作都由你来处理。

And all I do is press the button, you handle all the other complexity behind it.

我当时说：‘你配得上所有的钱。’

I was like, You deserve all the money.

他只是笑啊笑啊笑个不停。

Hope you have He all the just laughed and laughed and laughed.

你刚才说了一句什么。

You said something.

你每天都在做客户服务。

You're doing customer support every day.

这些是客户服务邮件吗？

Is this customer support emails?

这是什么？

What is this?

邮件或者聊天，有时候是电话。

Emails or chats, sometimes phone calls.

每天都是。

Every day.

是的。

Yeah.

再多说说这个。

Say more about this.

那你为什么要做这个呢？

Well, why do you do this?

我之前说过，这有几个原因。

I was saying earlier that for a few reasons.

我们之前讨论过，像DoorDash这样的公司之所以如此神奇或困难，是因为所有那些你看不见的部分。

One of the things that we were talking about earlier is that so much of the magic or the difficulty of building a company like DoorDash is in all the things you can't see.

所以你首先要做的，就是在各个地方建立可观测性。

So the first thing you got to do is you got to build observability everywhere.

当然，可观测性可以通过仪表板、系统，以及越来越多的AI工具来实现。

Of course, there's observability with dashboards and systems and increasingly AI tools.

但同时，我也可以看到来自客户的反馈，无论是消费者、商家、配送员还是广告商。我可以选择忽略他们。

But also, can see the inbound of customers who write us, whether it's a consumer, a merchant, a dasher, an advertiser, And I can choose to ignore them.

但这些反馈都是免费的。

But those are freebies.

我的意思是，我有多幸运，能拥有一个让客户如此在意的产品？

I mean, like, how lucky am I to actually have a product in which people care enough?

你知道，即使这些邮件并不都是正面的，但至少他们愿意告诉我他们的想法。

You know, even I mean, they're not very positive emails, but I mean, like but they care enough to actually let me know.

你知道吗，我认为企业最大的杀手通常是沉默。

You know, I think the greatest killer of a business is usually silence.

而在这里，他们甚至关心到愿意告诉我他们的体验出了问题。

And here, they're actually they care enough to actually let me know something went wrong in their experience.

我不仅欠他们一个回应，更认为我有责任去真正解决这个问题，这不只是礼貌，而是义务。

I owe them certainly not just a response, but actually, I think and not the courtesy, but I owe them the responsibility of actually solving that problem ultimately.

所以，首先，这是对客户的义务。

And so first, it's an obligation to customers.

其次，这也是我希望公司其他人都去做的事情。

Second, it's actually something that I want the rest of the company to do.

我认为，当公司稍微变大、取得一些成功后，最简单的事就是他们与客户或待完成的任务之间出现了更多障碍。

I think one of the easiest things as companies get a little bit bigger, perhaps earn a little bit more success, is there are more obstacles between them and the customers or the jobs to be done.

例如，当你成为一家公司后，突然间，唯一被关注的只有财务指标——你的收入、利润，而这些都不是客户关心的指标。

For example, when you become a company, all of a sudden, the only things that get spotlighted are the financial metrics, your revenue, your profits, none of which are metrics that customers care about.

我们作为上市公司所报告的任何指标，客户很可能根本不知道，也不关心。

There are no metrics in what we report as a public company that customers know about probably or care about, frankly.

这总是让我很困扰，因为正是我们服务客户的能力，才有可能实现投资者关心的强劲财务指标。

That always is quite bothersome to me because it's because of our ability to serve customers that can hopefully achieve strong financial metrics that investors care about.

我努力做的很多事，就是建立尽可能多的强化和重复性机制与流程，包括我个人所做的事情，让这家公司始终认识到，这里最重要的任务、唯一的信仰，就是为客户提供解决方案。

A lot of what I'm trying to do is building as many reinforcing and repetitive mechanisms and motions, including things that I do individually, that will allow this company to always recognize that the number one job and the only religion at this company is to solve problems for customers.

当数据和轶事发生冲突时，你会怎么做？

What do you do when the data and the anecdotes conflict?

这确实是个难题。

It's a tough one.

我认为，客户所说的话通常都包含一定的真实性。

I think that usually there's always an element of truth in what customers are saying.

而这通常会演变为不同团队之间的权衡讨论。

And it usually becomes a trade off discussion for different teams.

这个决定之所以困难，是因为人们总是很容易偏向数据一边。

The reason why it's a tough decision is because it is so easy to always just veer on the side of the data.

因为几乎总是这样，当客户注意到某些问题，或者出现某个轶事——可能是个边缘案例——它通常都处于分布曲线的尾部。

Because almost always, when a customer notices something that is wrong, or there's an anecdote that may be a edge case, it's usually at some tail of a distribution.

客户支持等待时间的分布、我们接电话时友好程度的分布、我们准时或延误的分布、准确性的分布，或者你关心的特定生菜品类中各类SKU的数量。

A distribution of the wait times for customer support, a distribution of how friendly we were when we actually took the call, a distribution of how on time we were or how late we were or how accurate we were, or what are the number of items of the types of SKUs you care about in a particular category of lettuce.

只是生菜，不是其他蔬菜，就是生菜，对吧？

Just lettuce, not vegetables, but just lettuce, right?

所以这总是某个尾部的案例。

So it's always some tail example.

因此，在优先级讨论中，数据几乎总是会占上风。

And so the data is probably always going to win when it comes to some sort of a prioritization discussion.

但当你真正思考如何改进产品时，几乎总是需要从改善边缘情况入手——这正是我个人喜欢花大量时间与我们的核心用户相处的原因，无论是下单最频繁的骑手、消费者，还是与我们长期合作的商家，也包括新用户。

But when you actually think about how to make a product better, it's going to almost always by definition be in improving the edges, That's why a lot of times what I like to do personally is I love to spend time with a lot of our power users, whether it's the top dashers or the consumers who order the most often or the merchants who we've been doing business with for a very long period of time, and also the new users.

他们在几乎所有结果的分布中都处于尾部。

They're at the tails of the distribution of almost every outcome.

一个从未使用过DoorDash的新用户，即使我们已经运营了十三年，也一定会告诉我们，首次下单是容易还是困难，而那些与我们长期共同成长、已经熟悉所有功能的用户则早已习惯了这些设计。

A new user who's never touched DoorDash before for the thirteen years that we've been around will absolutely tell us about how easy or difficult it is to place their first order in a way that someone who's been used to all the things that we've been training together with customers on have figured out.

核心用户也同样能看到所有问题，因为他们经历的现实世界突发状况最多，而这些是我们无法在系统中捕捉到的。

A power user also sees all the issues too, because they have the most shots on goal for some chaotic event to happen in the real world that we couldn't capture.

分布的边缘通常是最有价值的轶事所在，你必须给予最多的关注，因为它们几乎总是与数据相矛盾，而这些轶事在改进产品方面可能最有价值。

Those edges of the distribution are almost always where the anecdotes are that are the most valuable that you have to pay the most attention to, because they almost always will disagree with the data, and they are probably worth the most in terms of improving your product.

假设你在日常客户服务中发现了这样一个边缘案例，你的下一步是什么？

Let's say you find one of these edge cases as you're doing customer support every day, what's your next step?

我最喜欢的是那些特别长的案例。

The ones I love the most are actually the really long ones, actually.

那些充满宝藏的案例。

The ones where there's a lot of gold.

这大概就像你对创始人所做的研究，越长越好，因为你能够研究这些分布。

It's probably like the research you do on founders, which is the longer almost the better because you get to study the distributions.

当一封邮件只是简短地提及你已经了解的事情时，其中可能并没有太多有趣的内容。

When it's a short email about something you already know about, there's not as much perhaps interesting material in it.

我特别喜欢2000字的邮件，尤其是来自闪送员的，他们会详细说明物流算法在哪些地方对他们造成了问题。

I love the 2,000 word emails, especially from Dashers who will give many use cases of why the logistics algorithm broke for them.

这几乎变成了一种调试过程，既要分析现实中发生的状况，也要排查我们系统可能存在的故障，以及我们的产品在物理世界与系统之间交互不足的问题。

It becomes almost like a debugging exercise of both physical world things that have occurred, things about our systems that probably broke, and things in our products that couldn't interface well enough between the physical world and our systems.

然后我会进入我们的调试工具，实际追踪订单的整个流程。

Then I go into our debugging tools, and I actually literally track the order.

每一个步骤我都会仔细观察，你是亲自做这些吗？

And every single step, I'm watching and You're doing this personally?

是的。

Yeah.

我会开始推测可能出错的环节，然后根据最有效的沟通方式，联系跑腿员或消费者，生成假设并进行询问，以确认是否存在有价值的洞察，帮助我们真正改进产品。

I start figuring out potentially where the sources of error are, I'll either generate the hypothesis and call the dasher or email the dasher, depending on the best way to reach them or the consumer, and then actually find out whether or not there's a nugget of insight there of something we actually could improve.

换个说法，我们能否聚焦于一个能提升产品的轶事？

Put a different way, can we put a spotlight on an anecdote that improves the product?

这正是我所寻找的机会。

That's the opportunity I'm looking for.

我听你把这描述为一种永恒的使命，对吧？

I've heard you describe this as like this eternal mission, right?

对。

Yes.

你如何描述达达的永恒使命？

How would you describe what the eternal mission of DoorDash is?

是的。

Yeah.

达达的永恒使命是推动并赋能本地经济。

Well, the eternal mission of DoorDash is to grow and empower local economies.

我们经常这么说。

We say this a lot.

它的永恒性在于，我认为这是一场值得永远为之奋斗的斗争或事业——让城市中的小型、中型和大型企业成功，是提升城市GDP、幸福感和安全性的最佳方式。

The reason why it's eternal is because I think it's a fight worth fighting for or a cause worth fighting for forever, which is the best way to grow the GDP or the happiness or the safety of a city is by making the small, medium and large businesses in that city successful.

这些企业创造了经济中绝大部分的就业机会和消费支出，也为警察局、消防局、公园、学校和医院等提供了资金。

They produce the vast majority of jobs and consumption dollars for the economy and monies for the police department, the fire department, the parks, the schools, etc, the hospitals.

那么问题来了，你究竟如何让它们取得成功？

The question is like, well, how do you actually make them successful?

这一使命之所以可能非常富有成果，其中一个积极的推动因素是，物理世界始终在变化。

One of the most positive tailwinds of why this could be a very fruitful eternal mission is because the physical world is always changing.

很难只是简单地抓取这些信息。

It's hard to just scrape it.

而这正是我最喜欢它的一点。

And it's one of the things I love the most about it.

很难只是抓取所有这些信息，说订单完成了，然后扔给某个大语言模型处理。

It's hard to just scrape all that information, say job is finished, and then put it through some LLM or something.

首先，这些数据总是在变化。

Well, A, that data is always changing.

其次，这些数据完全没有任何组织结构。

B, it's not organized at all.

而且，这不像文字编辑器和用户之间的那种关系。

And C, it's not like some relationship between a text editor and a person.

我的意思是，DoorDash的每一笔订单至少涉及三个人。

I mean, There are three people involved on every single order at DoorDash, at least.

有消费者，有配送员，还有商家。

There is a consumer, there's a dasher, there's a merchant.

至少三个人。

At least three people.

现在，由于我们做的更复杂的事情，有时人还会更多。

Now, given that we do more complicated things, there's even more sometimes.

对这些人来说，这关乎他们的身份，正如我之前所说的小企业主，他们相信自己所从事的并非一份办公室工作，也不是仅仅为了赚钱去消费的手段。

For those people, this could be their identity back to what I was saying about small business owners and how they believe that what they do, it's not an office job or something that they just use to earn money so that they could spend consumption dollars or something else.

这是他们的生计。

This is like their livelihood.

这就是他们本身。

This is like who they are.

当我想到这样的人时，我希望他们能成功。

When I think about those kinds of people, I want those people to win.

如果我们必须不断寻找分布的边缘来持续改进产品，当然我们会这么做。

If we have to eternally always look for the edges of the distribution to keep improving the product, Of course, we will.

如果我们能做到这一点，并帮助他们取得成功，那么他们将让我们的城市和社区持续保持可持续性和繁荣。

If we can do that and we can make them successful, then they're going to make many things about the cities and the neighborhoods that we live in continue to be sustainable and very, very thriving.

另一种选择令人恐惧。

The alternative is terrifying.

你只有一两个大玩家。

You have one or two big players.

是的，我都不想考虑另一种可能性。

Yeah, I don't even want to think about the alternative.

你完全正确。

You're totally right.

另一种情况是，这是一个非常机械的世界，也许我们只能通过一两种方式或从一两个地方购买东西。

The alternative is it's a very robotic world where maybe we buy things in one or two ways or from one or two places.

这并不是一个能促进这些城市GDP增长的世界。

That's not a world in which you're going to grow the GDP of these cities.

实际上，这是一个可能剥夺某些社区身份的世界，我认为是这样。

Actually, that's a world in which you may take away some of the identity, I would argue, of some of the neighborhoods.

想想人们喜爱某些社区或偏爱某些社区的原因之一，是因为它们具有独特的个性。

Think one of the reasons why people love neighborhoods or that there are certain neighborhoods that they may preference is because there's a personality to it.

城市的个性很大程度上来自于那些商家，因此你和你的朋友们除了在家之外，也愿意去这些地方光顾和消磨时光。

So much of the personality is given by who the businesses are, and therefore, you and your friends want to go frequent and go hang out in those places in addition to your homes and things like that.

这就是让一切运转起来的关键。

That's what makes it tick.

这才是让一个地方、一座城市感觉棒极了的原因。

That's what makes a place feel awesome, a city feel awesome.

我认为这是一项值得为之奋斗的永恒使命。

I think that's an eternal mission worth fighting for.

是的，因为这不是你能在一年、五年内完成的事情，它一直在持续变化。

Yeah, because this is not something that you can accomplish in a year, five years, It's 10 constantly changing.

那你如何处理你们收集到的这些数据呢？

What do you do with all this data that you're collecting?

首先，我们必须对它进行结构化。

Well, the first is we have to structure it.

我认为谷歌做得特别出色的一点是，他们整理了互联网上的大量信息，并让所有人都能搜索到。

One of the things that I think Google so brilliantly did was they did organize a lot of the information on the internet, and they made it searchable to everybody.

目前，我们正在做的第一件事仍然是收集大量信息。

Right now, the first thing we're doing is we're still collecting lots of information.

然后现在，我们正试图用这些数据做两件事。

And then right now, we're trying to do two things with it.

第一件事是，我们确实希望通过我们的应用程序让你能够搜索他们的商品，从而为商家带来额外的业务。

The first thing is we're certainly trying to grow a merchant's business by allowing you to search for their stuff through our app, and we'll bring them incremental business that way.

另一种方式是我们真正试图让这些数据对他们有用。

The other way is we're actually trying to make it useful for them.

我们正在把数据反馈给他们，告诉他们什么时候

We're giving data back to them, telling them when

关于他们自己的业务的数据。

Data about their own business.

是的，比如当你某些商品缺货时，或者你是否知道你的某个菜单项定价低于市场水平，或者我们认为你作为零售商可以通过捆绑某些商品、在菜单或商品目录中新增某些商品来提升实际业务。

Yeah, like when you're out of stock of certain items, or that did you know that you are underpriced in this particular menu item versus what you could be pricing at, or that there's an opportunity to bundle certain or to create certain SKUs or new items on your menu or in your catalog if you're a retailer that we think would grow your actual business.

就像贝佐斯说过关于亚马逊Prime的那句话。

Is like Bezos said that line about Amazon Prime.

他说，要让这个服务变得如此有价值，你不成为会员就太不负责任了。

He's like, want to make it so valuable, irresponsible if you're not a member.

简直不可思议。

Like, it's just insane.

所以，如果你能为小企业、中型企业，甚至大型企业提供他们之前不知道的数据，比如这个定价问题就让我很感兴趣——你正在为这盘鸡肉收15美元，但我们看到，假设你们从平台上其他商家那里获取了数据，其实人们愿意为这道菜支付25美元。

So if you can have data for small businesses, medium businesses, even large businesses that they didn't know, like, that pricing thing is interesting to me, where it's like, well, you're charging, you know, dollars 15 for this plate of chicken where we see all these other I assume you're getting the data from all the other merchants on your platform, it's like could be people are willing to pay $25 for that thing.

本质上，如果你拥有这些数据，不与你们合作才是不负责任的，如果我们能获得所有这些

Essentially, it'd be irresponsible not to partner with you We if you have all these

我们也可以采用我们为自己构建的科学方法，从那些无法规模化的小实验，逐步为你实现规模化落地。

can also take the same approach that we've built for ourselves, the scientific process from doing things that don't scale to shipping things at scale on your behalf.

作为商家，你也可以自己做实验。

You as a merchant can be running experiments too.

当然，也许你做不到，因为你只是一个人。

Now, maybe you can't because you're a single person.

就像我跟你说过的那位面包师，正是他启发了我们对配送服务的发现，他一个人根本没能力运行这些复杂操作，但为什么我们不能替你来做这些呢？

You're literally one person like the baker that I was telling you about that inspired a lot of our discovery of delivery, who doesn't have all the capabilities to run all these, but why can't we do those things for you?

我们为什么不能，比如说，替你做这些呢？

Why can't we, for instance What do mean do them for me?

我们可以从简单的事情谈到更复杂的事情。

We can talk about simple things to more difficult things.

简单的事情，比如我们可以替你调整菜单价格。

The simple things, we can change menu prices on your behalf.

我们可以根据你希望达成的回报阈值，为你购买不同的促销活动。

We can buy different promotions for you based on what return thresholds you want to achieve.

我们也可以谈谈更复杂的事情。

We can talk about more complicated things.

例如，有些商家确实希望实现巨大的增长。

For example, there are certain merchants who want to actually grow tremendously.

为什么不行呢？

Why not?

他们希望自己的品牌、自己的心血项目能被更多人看到。

They want their identity, their passion project to be exposed to as many people as possible.

这些企业中的一些，比如，很难从一家店扩展到两家店，再进一步扩展到两千家店。

Some of those businesses, for example, find it very hard though to grow from one store to two stores to then somehow 2,000 stores.

举个例子，如果你烤饼干，希望每个人都能吃到你的饼干，为什么我们不能把你产品与那些不卖你产品的商家匹配起来，建立一条供应链，让你

Imagine if you baked cookies as an example, and you wanted everyone to have your cookies, why can't we match your products with businesses that don't sell your product and actually create a supply chain in which you

可以

can

在更多地方销售这些产品呢？

actually sell those products in more places?

而且，你完全可以实现多方共赢。

And you can literally make everyone win.

现在销售你产品的新兴商家，就多了一款名为‘饼干’的新菜品。

The new business who's selling your product now has a new menu item called a cookie.

你能最大限度地提升品牌曝光度。

You get to maximally increase your exposure.

如果我们了解你的目标，就能利用这些信息做很多事，让它们产生实际价值。

There's a range of things in which we can do with the information and make it productive if we knew what your goals were.

我们与许多企业合作的核心在于规模化：如何最大限度地提升你的曝光度、品牌认知度，并实现你可能拥有的任何目标？

A lot of what we're doing with a lot of businesses is at scale, how do we maximally increase your exposure, your identity and achieve whatever goal you may have?

这适用于餐厅。

That's with restaurants.

给我讲讲一些具体的做法。

Tell me some of the stuff.

或者零售商。

Or retailers.

是的，当你把范围扩展到所有实体企业时，事情就变得非常有趣了。

Yeah, this gets really interesting when you expand out to every physical business.

当我想到餐厅老板和零售商时，在我看来，他们和我并没有区别，他们都是创业者，都想创造一些东西。

When I think about restaurateurs, retailers, to me, they are no different from me in the sense that they are entrepreneurs, they want create something.

他们希望把自己拥有的某种想法或热情，推向更广阔的世界。

They want something that they have, an idea they may have, a passion they may have, and they want it to be exposed into the world.

这能以多种方式给他们带来满足感。

That gives them fulfillment of a variety of ways.

好吧，假设你想制作T恤并销售T恤。

Okay, so let's say that you wanna to make T shirts and sell T shirts.

这是你的一个热情项目。

That's a passion project of yours.

你完全没有理由不能现在就利用我们现有的受众群体、仓储和物流库存，快速在我们服务或运营的数以万计的不同社区或城市中测试这个想法，看看你是否真的有潜力，然后再花大笔资金去开一家店之类的。

There should be no reason why you can't do that today from testing that idea with the audiences that we have, with the warehousing and logistics inventory that we have, with the ability very quickly to test in any neighborhood, any city in the tens of thousands of different neighborhoods that we serve or cities that we serve and operate in and see whether or not you may have something before you actually go out and try to spend a lot of money to open up a store or something like that.

我们完全没有理由不能成为你未来任何创意的商业伙伴。

There's no reason why we can't be your business partner for any future creation.

天啊，这让我大开眼界，因为我一直只把DoorDash当成点餐的工具。

Dude, is blowing my mind because I just think about DoorDash as a way to get food.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这个想法背后的理念。

I love the idea behind this.

这全部

It's all

关于你从哪里开始，以及如何持续下去，对吧？

about where you start and how you keep going, right?

顺便说一下，很多这些想法都是来自我们的客户。

And by the way, a lot of these ideas came to us from our customers.

你知道，回到你问的为什么我要做客户服务这个问题。

You know, back to your question about why do I do customer support?

我也学到了很多东西。

I learn a ton, too.

是的，当然，我了解了配送的所有边缘细节。

Yeah, of course, I learn about all the edges of the distribution.

客户都问过哪些具体的事情？

What are some examples of things that customers have asked?

2014年有一位客户，我永远忘不了，他是一位经营着加利福尼亚州最大农场之一的农民。

One customer in 2014, I'll never forget, was a farmer who runs one of the largest farms in the state of California.

他们每天有数百辆卡车在加利福尼亚州内往返，将他们的农产品、肉类和其他产品配送给各种杂货店、餐厅、酒店等。

And they run hundreds of trucks every day up and down the state of California, distributing their produce and their meats and other products to a variety of grocers, restaurants, hotels, etc.

他们家族已经三代人一直在做这件事。

And they've been doing this for three generations as a family.

他们最初创办农场并不是为了开一大堆卡车。

They did not start their farm to drive a bunch of trucks.

这并不是他们想要从事或热衷的事业。

That is not the business that they aspire to be in or passionate about.

就在我们运营的第二年，他们给我打了电话，或者实际上是发了信息，然后我们通过电话聊了聊他们感兴趣的内容。

Literally, in our second year of operation, they called me or they wrote in actually, and then we had a conversation on the phone about what they were interested in.

他们好奇我们是否能为他们解决这个问题。

They were curious whether we could solve that problem for them.

真不可思议，他们居然会向你提出这个问题。

That's wild they even asked you that.

那是我们创业的第二年。

This was the second year of the business.

我当时说，还做不到。

I said not yet at the time.

也许我甚至觉得我欠他一个电话。

Perhaps I should I almost feel like I owe him the call.

这次对话是一个很好的提醒。

This conversation is a good reminder.

我们的目标是，随着时间推移，成为任何企业、任何问题的首选联系对象。

Our goal over time is to be the first phone call for any business, for any issue.

是的，如今我们接到的最多电话是关于配送的。

Yes, today, the number one calls we get about are about delivery.

我完全理解。

Totally get it.

完全明白。

Totally understood.

越来越多的电话开始涉及其他问题。

Increasingly, they've been about other things.

你们真的能帮我们开发这款应用吗？

Can you actually help us build our app?

你们能帮我们获取客户吗？

Can you help us acquire customers?

你们能帮我们分析客户、留住客户、提供客户服务吗？

Can you help us analyze customers, retain customers, customer support customers?

你们能帮我们管理库存吗？

Can you help us store inventory?

所以这些问题正越来越多地被提出来。

So those questions are more and more coming inbound.

这就是为什么我们在DoorDash推出了这么多产品。

And that's why we've shipped a lot of the products that we have at DoorDash.

但我认为，如果做得好，DoorDash可以成为你启动任何业务时的首选联系方式。

But I think if done right, DoorDash can be your first phone call to start any business.

我的意思是，这正是我们真正想要的。

I mean, that's really what we wanted.

而且我们可以以非常低成本的方式实现，即使你不希望扩展，也不必强制扩展。

And we can do it in a way that is very low cost, that doesn't have to scale if you don't want it to.

有些人对一两个地点就非常满意。

Some people are very happy with one or two locations.

或者如果你想要成为下一个麦当劳，或者想要成为下一个沃尔玛。

Or if you want to become the next McDonald's or you want to become the next Walmart.

我最喜爱的名言之一来自《从零到一》这本书。

One of my all time favorite quotes is from the book Zero to One.

书中说：我注意到的最强大的模式是，成功的人能在意想不到的地方发现价值，他们通过从第一性原理而非公式出发思考商业来做到这一点。

It says, The single most powerful pattern I have noticed is that successful people find value in unexpected places, and they do this by thinking about business from first principles instead of formulas.

AppLovin正是以这种方式打造了他们的新广告平台Axon。

This is exactly what AppLovin has done with their new advertising platform, Axon.

Axon是这一代最强大的广告平台。

Axon is the most powerful advertising platform in a generation.

Axon让你能够捕捉到完全专注的注意力。

Axon allows you to capture undivided attention.

Axon广告是全屏视频，平均观看时长达到三十五秒，留存率远超其他广告平台。

Axon ads are full screen videos that are watched for an average of thirty five seconds, retention that blows other ad platforms out of the water.

你可以在几分钟内上线。

And you can launch in minutes.

你设定目标，Axon 会帮你实现。

You set the goal and Axon achieves it.

无需复杂设置，也不需要专业知识。

No complex setup, no expertise needed.

Axon 能快速扩展。

And Axon scales quickly.

他们可以让你的广告触达十亿潜在客户。

They can put your ads in front of over a billion potential customers.

其他企业已经看到了立竿见影的效果，每日广告支出高达数十万美元，并将收入提升了数百万。

Other businesses have seen immediate results, scaled to hundreds of thousands of dollars of spend per day and increased their revenue by millions.

大多数广告主甚至还没想到这个渠道。

And most advertisers aren't even thinking about this channel yet.

不到1%的广告主能访问 Axon，所以你得赶紧开始。

Less than 1% of advertisers have access to Axon, so you want to get started quickly.

你可以通过访问 axon.ai/senra 来实现这一点。

And you can do that by going to axon.ai/senra.

就是 axon.ai/senra。

That is axon.ai/senra.

我想把你的故事和贝索斯做个对比，因为每次听你讲话，我都能听到很多贝索斯的影子。

Something that, again, I wanna compare your story to Bezos, because I just think every time I hear you speak, I hear a lot of Bezos.

他在亚马逊初期确实亲自做了大量客户服务。

He obviously did a ton of customer support at the very beginning of Amazon.

他公开了自己的邮箱，就像把 email@time 这样的邮箱公之于众。

He publicized his email and like made it public, like email mail at time.

他在一本书中讲过一个精彩的故事，说当他意识到他们当时销售的只是书籍、CD，可能还有DVD时。

And one he tells this great story in one of the books that when he realized, you know, they were selling, think at the time, I think, just books, CDs and like VH maybe DVDs.

好的。

Okay.

有人会说，他每天会给大约一千名客户发邮件之类的。

And somebody's like he would ask I think he would send an email to like 1,000 customers a day or something like that.

他问：‘你还想买什么别的？’

And he's like, What else would you buy?

有个人说：‘你们能卖我雨刷器吗？’

And one guy's like, Will you sell me windshield wipers?

好的。

Okay.

巴塞尔说：‘天啊，这样的话，我们什么都能卖了。’

And Basil was like, Oh my god, we're going be able to sell anything or everything in that case.

所以，是的，我喜欢这个想法。

So yeah, I love that idea.

你们还在开发哪些其他产品？

What are these other products that you're building?

好吧，我们现在得给你补补课了，因为首先，你需要多做些播客——我已经听完了你所有的播客，但有些你现在告诉我的事情我之前根本不知道。

Okay, we have to educate me now because I've heard first of all, you need to do more podcasts because I've listened to all of them, and I didn't know some of the stuff you're telling me right now.

但我知道你在过去六个月左右推出了一系列不同的产品。

But I know you've launched a bunch of different products during the last six or months.

告诉我一个你特别感兴趣的。

Tell me about one that you're

真的很让人兴奋。

really excited about.

我们正在努力做的一件事是，显然要完成城市内的所有配送。

Well, one of the things that we're trying to do is we're trying to obviously deliver everything inside the city.

好的。

Okay.

为了给你一些背景，城市里有数千万件物品是可以被配送的。

In order to and just to put some context behind it, there are tens of millions of items inside of a city that you could deliver.

DoorDash 目前只配送了其中一小部分。

DoorDash delivers a fraction of those items to

你们今天配送的比例是多少？

What fraction do you deliver today?

非常小的一部分。

A very small fraction.

非常非常小的比例。

Very, very small fraction.

需要配送的东西数量远超我们目前提供的范围。

There are many times the amount of things to deliver than what we currently offer.

但这些配送工作面临不少挑战，对吧？

But there are challenges in making these deliveries, right?

例如，你如何了解每个城市的商品目录是什么样子？

For instance, how do you actually know what the catalog looks like for each city?

你如何确认商品目录的准确性？

How do you know if the catalog is actually accurate?

如果商品在门店缺货，但远在其他仓库有货怎么办？

What if the items are not available in store but are available in a warehouse somewhere far, far away?

要实现向城市内所有地方配送，必须先解决这些大量问题。

There are a lot of these challenges in order to actually address before you can actually do something like deliver everything inside of a city.

我们推出的一个举措是

One of the things that we launched

你们内部会讨论这种事吗？

Do you talk about like that internally?

我们要实现一个城市内所有商品的配送？

We're going to deliver everything in a city?

是的。

Yeah.

但去年秋天，我们推出了一项举措，实际上是在九月，我们发布了仪表板履约解决方案，为像克罗格或CVS这样的公司，我们会代为储存他们的商品，你可以直接从我们的网站订购他们的商品。

But one of the things that we launched last fall, it was actually in September, we announced Dashboard fulfillment solutions where for companies like a Kroger or companies like a CVS, we'll actually carry their items and you can order their items directly from our site.

但有时这些商品实际上会从我们代为运营的仓库发出。

But sometimes they'll actually come from a warehouse that we're operating on their behalf.

这是一个仓储、库存管理和物流解决方案的典型案例，我们提供前所未有的精准度和快速配送，而零售商目前没有这样的能力。

That is an example of a product of a warehousing and inventory management and a logistics solution in which we are offering perfect accuracy, fast delivery in a way that retailers don't have access to or the capabilities to do so today.

这就是你如何通过整合并把库存更靠近居民居住地，来实现整个城市的全面配送。

That's part of how you can deliver all of a city by actually bringing and aggregating and making closer some of the inventory to where someone lives.

我们正在研发自动驾驶车辆。

We're building autonomous vehicles.

这是我们去年宣布的另一件事，那真是一段充满挑战的旅程——坦白说，大部分是痛苦和煎熬，但这段旅程中最重要的是认识到，你必须打造一款专为最后一公里配送设计的、有明确目的的产品，其方式与机器人出租车或运送人类截然不同。

That's something else that we announced last year, where actually, it was a fascinating journey where, candidly, mostly pain and suffering, but most of the journey was recognizing that you actually have to build a purpose built or intentional product to do last mile delivery in a way that's very different from, say, robotaxis or delivering humans.

你必须解决如何让商品进出车辆的问题，而这些是物品自己无法完成的，但乘客在机器人出租车里却能自然地做到。

You have to solve problems of getting products, for example, inside and out from the vehicle in a way that passengers naturally can do in a robotaxi that items cannot do on their own.

你必须思考，对于短途配送、长途配送、重货与轻包裹，可能需要哪些不同类型的车辆。

You have to think about what types of vehicles you may need for shorter distance deliveries versus longer distance deliveries, heavier deliveries versus lighter packages.

当我想到这些产品时，这一切都属于我们的一项使命：努力将一切送到城市内部，让每一家企业都有机会成功。

When I think about some of those products, for example, that's all part of this mission of trying to bring you everything inside the city and giving every business a chance to win.

你们是自己制造硬件吗？

Are you making the hardware yourself?

是的。

Yeah.

在某些情况下，我们确实如此。

In some of the cases, we are.

我们唯一真正信奉的准则，就是让客户取得成功。

Don't have again, the only religion we really subscribe to is making customers win.

我们并不执着于必须自己开发产品还是让别人来开发。

We don't have a religion about whether or not we have to build the product or someone else has to build the product.

实际上，当我们刚开始自动驾驶项目时，我们最初相信并不需要自己制造车辆。

Actually, when we started the autonomous project, the autonomous vehicle project, we started with the belief that we did not have to build the vehicles.

在与许多不同公司合作后，我们最终意识到，没有人真正愿意打造我们想要的产品。

In partnering with a lot of different companies, we ultimately realized that nobody actually wanted to build what we wanted to build.

这最终促使我们在2019年决定启动自己的项目，并于去年交付了产品。

That's ultimately why we decided to start our own project in 2019 and shipped it last year.

这花了大约六年，快七年的时间来开发。

That's what, six years, almost seven years of development.

花了六年时间才达到

Six years to get to

他们为什么不愿意开发呢？

Why did they not want to build?

他们就是不想做你们想要的东西吗？

They just didn't want to build what you wanted?

是的，如果你仔细想想，在自动驾驶汽车领域，大量的项目、资本和关注都集中在机器人出租车上。

Yeah, well, if you think about it, in the world of autonomous vehicles, you have a lot of the projects and a lot of the capital and a lot of the attention are going towards robo taxi.

在我们看来，这与最后一公里配送所需的技术方案和形态截然不同。

And that's just a very different solution and form factor, in our opinion, than what you need for last mile delivery.

举个例子，当你想把一辆机器人出租车开进密集的商户区——无论是商场还是主街——并自己找到停车位、独立取货，这真的非常困难。

You know, when you're It's very hard, for example, to drive a robotaxi into a crowded hub of merchants, whether it's a mall or a main street and actually somehow find parking and actually get access to the products by itself somehow.

我认为完成这样的任务非常具有挑战性。

I think that's a difficult endeavor to accomplish.

我们实际上开发了DoorDash Dot，它确实能在道路上行驶，但也能在人行道和自行车道上通行。

We built actually DoorDash Dot, which actually will, yes, it will travel on the road, but it also can travel on the sidewalk and in the bike lanes.

它的体积要小得多。

It's a much smaller form factor.

它的速度不快，但能够真正解决最后一公里配送的最后十英尺问题——这本质上就是最后十英尺的问题。

It doesn't go as fast, but it has the ability to actually get to the last 10 feet of actually solving the problem of last mile delivery, which really is the last 10 feet problem.

这个设备现在是实时运行的吗？

Is this live, like right now?

它在亚利桑那州。

It's in Arizona.

它在凤凰城和斯科茨代尔地区。

It's in the Phoenix, Scottsdale area.

我听说你们和Waymo合作来解决车门关闭的问题，这是真的吗？

Is it true I heard that Waymo, you guys have partnered with Waymo to close the doors of is that true?

我们确实与Waymo合作，并且一起做了很多事。

We do partner with Waymo, and we do lots of things together.

是因为人们从Waymo下车时就不关门吗？

Is it people just not shutting the door when they get out of a Waymo?

这是真的吗？

Is that true?

我认为，像Waymo或DoorDash这样的公司需要解决的问题中，总有一些现实中难以预测的有趣边缘案例。

One of the things that I think is fascinating about the problems that a company like a Waymo or a company like DoorDash has to solve is there's always these funny edge cases in the real world that are very hard to predict.

关车门可能就是其中一个例子，对吧？

Shutting doors may be one of those examples, Right?

但你实际上只有在仔细阅读这些客户对话记录的日志时，才会发现这种情况。

But you actually wouldn't know about that until literally you read the logs of these customer transcripts of, you know, these things.

听我说，我认为随着时间推移，我们有很多可以合作的事情。

Look, I think there's going to be lots of things that we could do together over time.

但我认为这首先要从打下基础开始。

But I think it starts with just building the foundation.

我认为，要在物理世界中打造一家这样的公司，所需的基础与数字世界截然不同。

I think the foundations you need to build one of these companies for the physical world are just very, very different from the digital world.

这正是DoorDash这项工作的有趣之处。

That's the fun part of the exercise at DoorDash.

让我们谈谈实现你所描述的所有这些工作所需的人才。

Let's talk about the talent needed to do all the things that you're describing.

我听说你在招聘时，会寻找像罗德学者那样优秀、同时具备海豹突击队素质的人。

I heard you say that when you were recruiting, you looked for Rhodes Scholars that meet Navy SEALs.

这到底是什么意思？

What does that mean?