戴夫·林普：亚马逊如何运行Alexa

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我们再次邀请到亚马逊设备与服务高级副总裁戴夫·林普。

We're back with Dave Limp, the senior vice president of devices and services at Amazon.

我们来聊聊你上周发布的所有产品吧。

Let's talk about all the products you announced last week.

你总是会快速接连发布新产品。

You tend to have rapid fire product announcements.

上周，你发布了新的Ring摄像头和Ring Alarm Pro。

So last week, you announced some new Ring cameras, the Ring Alarm Pro.

这次我总算说对了。

I got it right that time.

还有一款Ring家庭无人机。

There was a Ring Home Drone.

还有一款Alexa机器人。

There's an Alexa robot.

还有一款专为儿童设计的Alexa设备，方便他们与祖父母视频通话。

There's an Alexa device for kids to video chat with grandparents.

还有一款新的Echo Show。

There was a new Echo Show.

为什么一次性发布这么多产品？

Why announce all the products at once?

这与其他科技公司非常不同，它们通常试图让你一次只关注一个产品。

It's very different than other tech companies, which try to focus you to one at a time.

为什么要做这种快速连续的发布活动？

Why why do the rapid fire events?

秋季是我们倾向于发布大量产品的时期。

The fall is when we tend to launch a lot of products.

我们并不强制规定这一点，但通常我们会尝试在春季做一些发布，然后在秋季集中发布一大堆产品。

We don't dictate this, but we generally try to do some things in the spring, and then we do a bunch of stuff in the fall.

这基本上就是我们创新所遵循的周期。

Those tend to be the kind of just the cycle we're on in terms of invention.

这并不意味着中间没有其他产品发布，但重要的大项目通常都集中在这个时间点。

It doesn't mean lots of stuff doesn't happen in between, but the big rocks tend to do that way.

所以秋季不仅是最近的，我们之前也推出过几款其他产品。

So in the fall was not just it's it's the most recent, but we also had, you know, a couple other launches as well.

我们前一周推出了全新的Kindle，三周前还发布了一系列电视类产品，包括我们自家的电视，这是第一次，还有全新的4K Fire TV Stick。

We had a brand new Kindle that came the week before, and we had a whole host of TV based products, including our own TVs for the first time three weeks before that and a new four k Fire TV stick.

所以这些产品其实是相互配合的。

So it's really about these things come together.

那为什么我们要把它们都集中到一场活动里发布呢？

And then why do we put them into one event like that?

说实话，我们对此争论了很久。

We debate that a lot, to be honest with you.

如果我们把它们逐一发布，我觉得对顾客来说反而更难跟进。

It's a function of if we dribble them all out, then I I think it's also just harder for a customer.

顺便说一句，你也是这些产品的用户。

And by the way, you you are a customer of that.

对吧？

Right?

因为你的工作是报道好消息、坏消息和中性消息。

Because your job is to report good, bad, and indifferent, the news.

当我们知道你们忙于其他公司的活动和其他很多事情时，如果把消息慢慢释放出来，感觉会更有效率。

And for us to kind of dribble it out when we know you're busy with other companies' events and lots of other things going on, it feels like it has some efficiencies to it.

但我也不确定这是否完美，你知道的？

I'm not sure perfected though, you know?

但当你看看我们所追求的横向布局时，我们有很多不同的产品线。

But when you look at the horizontal nature of what we're trying to do, we have a lot of different product lines.

我为所有这些产品线感到自豪，但这也确实累积起来了，你知道吗？

And I'm very proud of all of them, but that also just adds up, you know?

我们有很多团队在进行创新，这些创新加在一起就形成了规模。

We have a lot of teams inventing and it adds up.

有些是全新的，比较大胆，有时会让人惊喜；有些则是渐进式的，但它们都基于我们每天醒来后都会从客户那里获得360度反馈这一事实。

And some are net new and they're a little bit more audacious and sometimes they surprise people and some of them are more iterative, but they are based on the fact that we wake up every day and we have a three sixty feedback loop from our customers.

他们会留下评价，我们会阅读这些评价，他们每年还会拨打我们的客服热线724365次。

They put reviews up and we read them and they call our customer service 724365 a year.

我们聆听这些电话，并了解我们的产品需要改进的地方。

And we listen to those calls and we know what we have to fix in our products.

我们知道在许多迭代工作中，下一代产品需要做哪些调整。

We know what we have to do for the next generation of our products for a lot of our iterative work.

所以把这些都汇总起来，通常会是一个繁忙的一小时。

And so you had all that up, and it tends to be a busy one hour.

是的。

Yeah.

我总是很好奇科技公司是如何规划这类营销活动的，因为实际上只有少数几种策略。

I'm always curious how tech companies plan their their marketing events of this kind because there there's actually only, like, a handful of strategies.

坦率地说，大多数人已经逐渐模仿苹果的策略。

And most people, to be candid, have sort of drifted towards copying Apple's strategy.

但我认为你们的做法非常不同。

But there I think the way you all do it is is very different.

我一直很好奇，推动你们这样做的原因，是因为不想看起来和别人一样，还是因为你们真的有很多东西要发布？

And I've always been curious about what drives is it we just don't wanna look like everyone else is starting to look, or is it, man, we got a lot of stuff.

我们只需要把它发布出去。

We just gotta get it out the door.

是的。

Yeah.

我离开苹果已经很久了，所以我不了解他们的策略。

It's been a long, long time since I was at Apple, so I don't know their strategy.

我当然会观看他们的发布会，但我确实觉得他们有自己的观点，知道你们和终端客户想听什么。

I watch their events certainly, But I I do feel like they have their viewpoint on what what they think you and the end customer want to hear about.

我认为我只能谈谈我们的观点，那就是我们想传达的核心：我们正在为顾客进行创新。

I think I can only speak to our viewpoint, which is what we want to try to get across is that we're inventing on behalf of customers.

这可以说是我最想强调的第一点。

Like, is the number one thing I would say.

所以，我们在发布会开始时，视频是最精良的吗？

So do we have the most polished video when we start our events?

不是。

No.

我们通常使用用户生成的视频，内容是我们认为有趣的、由客户发送过来的素材。

We generally use UGC based video of stuff that we think is fun that customers sent in.

画面有点粗糙，也不够精致。

It's a little grainy and it's a little not as polished.

但确实，这些是真实的。

But yeah, but it's real.

比如，有人在前门台阶上，就在Ring摄像头前求婚，然后把视频发给了我们。

Like, that is what you know, somebody is proposing on the front doorstep in front of a Ring camera, they sent it in.

天啊，多么令人喜悦的时刻。

It's like, oh my god, what a joyful moment.

而Echo正在帮助视力受限的人听书。

And an echo is helping somebody that has limited eyesight listen to a book.

这同样是一个令人喜悦的时刻。

That's just a joyful moment.

我不替别人说话，这正是我们希望围绕产品传递的视角。

Not speaking for others, that's the lens that we want to introduce our products around.

当你推出世界上前所未有的新产品时，比如亚马逊Glow旨在让孩子们和祖父母团聚，或者机器人，又或者是像无人机这样的始终在家摄像头，你就需要做更多解释。

Then when you have net new to the world things, you mentioned Amazon Glow for trying to get kids and grandparents together or a robot or always home cam in the case of the drone.

因为你得说，嗯，你真的做了这个吗？

Then you have to do a little bit more explaining because it's like, well, did you do this?

所以这些产品需要一些教学和讲故事的成分，因为它们是前所未有的。

And that and so there's a little teaching and storytelling as part of those because they're net new to the world.

你希望将它们置于某种语境中，无论对错——我们发明它们的初衷，因为我们还没有客户反馈来通过用户视角讲述这些故事。

And you do wanna put them in the context, right or wrong, our context, the reason why we invented them and because we don't yet have customer feedback on them to be able to tell you the story through the customer's eyes.

那我们从这里开始吧。

Well, let's start there.

这真是个完美的过渡。

That's perfect segue.

去年发布的无人机。

The drone announced last year.

现在你们正在接受预订。

You're taking preorders now.

你已经获得了一年的反馈，有些非常积极，有些非常兴奋，也有一些非常 cynical。

You've gotten a year of feedback, some very positive, some very excited, some very cynical.

你们有可以分享的数据吗？

Do you have any numbers to share?

人们有在预购这个产品吗？

Are people preordering this thing?

是的。

Yeah.

开局非常顺利。

It's off to a great start.

这是邀请，不是预购。

It it's invites.

这不是预购。

It's not preorders.

这是

It's

邀请。

invites.

所以，其实就是邀请。

So, like, it's invites.

但没错，这些邀请的数量非常强劲。

But, yeah, the invites are are strong.

前几天晚上我和杰米讨论过，情况比我预想的要好得多。

I was having the discussion with Jamie the other night, and it's much stronger than I would have predicted.

你说亚马逊以那种模糊的语言而不是数字著称，是什么意思？

What is do you mean Amazon is famous for kinda squishy language instead of numbers.

你能分享一个具体数字吗？

Is there a number that you can share?

我去学校学模糊表达。

I go to school for squishy.

不行。

No.

我不能分享具体数字。

I can't share a number.

但确实更强了。

So but but it's stronger.

但那其实并不重要。

And but that doesn't really matter.

数字就是数字。

The number is the number.

重要的是我们上线后，客户开始使用并给出反馈，他们是否在使用它？

What matters is when we ship it and customers start reviewing it, and are they using it?

这才是真正重要的。

Like, that's all that matters.

这占了100分中的99分。

That's 99 out of a 100 points.

如果我们做对了这一点，好事自然会随之而来。

And if we get that right, then good things will come.

如果我们没做对，就需要快速调整方向、迭代，直到做对为止。

If we don't get that right, then we need to quickly pivot and iterate and get it right.

但就邀请量这个指标而言，起步比我会预想的要好。

But it is off to you know, as invites as a measure, it's off to a better start than I would have predicted.

事实上，任何全新产品都会面临质疑者。

And the fact of the matter is that any new to the world product is going to have its cynics.

顺便说一句，我推测，如果你没有遇到公开的质疑者，那说明你在创新时冒险得还不够。

If you do by the way, I I would postulate that if you don't have vocal cynics, you didn't take enough risk in your invention.

这不过是又一个跟风产品罢了。

It's just another me too thing.

它并不是真正全新的东西。

Like, it's not new to the world.

所以我认为，一个敢于大胆冒险的优秀新产品，总会伴随着这样的噪音。

And so I would say for a good new product that took a bunch of risk, there's always gonna be that noise.

所以，Ring无人机是一款Ring摄像头，可以检测噪音和运动，然后起飞，在你家上空飞行，向你展示正在发生的事情。

So the Ring drone is a Ring camera that can detect noise, motion, take off, fly on your house, show you what's happening.

你还有Astro机器人，这也是你宣布的。

You have the Astro robot, which you also announced.

是的。

Yep.

这不是环（Ring）的产品，而是亚马逊的产品。

Not a ring product, an Amazon product.

这是一个可以在你家里四处移动的机器人，配备一个望远镜式的摄像头和屏幕，可以查看各种东西。

That is a robot that can roll around your house with a camera on a periscope and a screen and look at stuff.

为什么无人机是环的产品，可以查看东西，而Astro却不是环的产品，也不能查看东西？

Why is the drone a ring product that can look at things and the astro not a ring product that can look at things?

如果你画一个Always Home Cam和Astro的维恩图，它们在移动摄像头这个方面会有重叠。

If you were drawing the Venn diagram of Always Home Cam and Astro, they would overlap in terms of a mobile camera.

所以中间确实有一部分重叠，但Always Home Cam无人机是专门为此任务设计的。

So there is an area in the middle, but the Always Home Cam drone, it is dedicated to that task.

当它不执行该任务时，会停在充电座上，摄像头被遮挡。

And when it is not doing that task, it is sitting in its dock, camera obfuscated.

它在底座里面。

It's inside the dock.

它根本没出来，而且也不做别的事。

It's not even out, and it it does nothing else.

这就是它的用途。

That is its utility.

顺便说一下，我觉得那里有很多实用价值。

And by the way, I think there's a lot of utility there.

从品牌角度来看，这完美契合了Ring的品牌承诺——让您的社区和家庭更安全。

And so from a brand perspective, that fits unbelievably well under the umbrella of make your neighborhoods safer, your home safer, which is Ring's brand promise.

所以这简直是不言而喻的。

And so that was a no brainer.

这是一个Ring产品。

It's a Ring product.

至于Astro的功能，其中确实有一小部分是明确的安全应用场景。

And so then of what Astra does, there's a small segment of it, which is a security use case for sure.

在许多方面，它比始终在家摄像头功能更多。

It can do more than the always home Cam in many ways.

它可以看到无人机无法到达的不同位置。

It can see different places that the drone may not be able to see.

它可以进行多次巡逻。

It can do multiple patrols.

它可以在你在家时进行巡逻。

It can patrol when you're home.

无人机会太吵。

The drone will be too loud.

你不想在你在家睡觉时让它巡逻。

You don't want it to patrol when you're home and sleeping.

但它还有许多其他功能。

But it also has a bunch of other functionality.

它具备Alexa功能。

It has Alexa functionality.

你可以通过它听音乐。

You can listen to music through it.

它可以把电话转接给你。

It can bring a call to you.

它能帮助实现我们在发布活动中提到的一个功能，也就是老年护理。

It can help with one of the things we pointed out at the launch event was, you know, for elder care.

亲人可能会愿意把它放在身边，这样你能更安心。

A loved one, might feel comfortable putting it with them so that it can give you peace of mind.

所以这是一个更通用的用途。

And so that's a much more horizontal thing.

因此，我们回到我们对话的第一部分，我们将 Ring 深度集成到了 ASTRO 中。

So what we did is going back to our first part of our conversation is we deeply integrated Ring into ASTRO.

所以它能与 Ring 配合使用。

So it works with Ring.

如果你现在打开我的 ASTRO 应用并开启摄像头，我就能在 Ring 应用和我的摄像头拼贴视图中看到它。

And, you know, if I brought up my ASTRO app right now and I turned on the camera, I would see it in my Ring app and my mosaic of cameras.

我会在那里看到它。

I would see it there.

但这个品牌更适合一个完全全新的产品。

But it the brand was better for something completely net new.

顺便说一下，我们也没有叫它Echo，因为它远不止是一个回声。

By the way, we also didn't call it echo because it's more than just an echo.

所以，想出一个新名字是非常合理的。

And so it it made a lot of sense to come up with something new.

最后，就像所有的命名会议一样，我们最终确定了一个名字，有些人会喜欢Astro，有些人则不会。

And in the end, you know, like all naming meetings, we landed on something and some people will love Astro and some people won't.

摄像头的价值通常在于摄像头另一端的人，尤其是对于Ring摄像头和Astro摄像头而言。

The value of the camera is usually for the person on the other end of the camera, especially for Ring cameras and Astro cameras.

被Ring摄像头拍摄的人很少希望自己成为视频的主角。

The person who the Ring camera is looking at rarely wants to be the subject of the Ring video.

真正重要的是打开Ring应用、观看摄像头实时画面的那个人。

It's the person who's opening the Ring app and seeing what's happening on the camera.

我的意思是，这经常让Ring陷入麻烦。

I mean, that gets Ring into to trouble a lot.

对吧？

Right?

很多人批评Ring与警方部门有合作。

There's a lot of criticism that Ring is integrated with police departments.

存在隐私方面的担忧。

There's privacy concerns.

涉及是否同意加入或退出的问题。

There's opt in opt out.

大多数Ring摄像头都是为房屋外部设计的。

Most of Ring's cameras are designed for the exterior of your home.

现在你却把这些摄像头带进了家里。

Now you're bringing those cameras inside the home.

它们是可移动的。

They're mobile.

你如何看待谁能够被看到、这些视频如何传送给当局，以及Ring作为中间角色的这种关系？

How do you think about that relationship between who gets to be seen, how this video goes to authorities, how Ring acts as that intermediary?

在这些讨论中，这个问题经常出现吗？

Does that come up a lot in these conversations?

经常被提到的是，专注于家内的摄像头与家外摄像头的使用场景。

What does come up a lot is the use case for a camera that is focused in your home versus out of your home.

你知道，家外的摄像头，你需要确保它不会拍到邻居的财产。

You know, cameras focused out of your home, you wanna make sure it doesn't touch on your neighbor's property.

所以我们设计了可以绘制多边形并设置禁入区域的功能。

So we, you know, build you can draw a polygon and have keep out zones.

你得考虑如何接收通知，因为通常是通知在驱动行为。

You wanna think about how do you get notified on it because it's often a notification that drives.

它可能只是一个门铃事件，但也可能是有人经过你的聚光灯摄像头，或者更常见的是，你想吓走一只鹿——你知道的，一些真正实用的场景，比如它在吃你的花园。

It might just be a doorbell event, but it could also be somebody walking past your spotlight camera or, you know, more often than not, it's you want to scare away a deer, you know, some real use case, you know, eating your garden or something.

所以户外摄像头有其特定的使用场景。

So outdoor cameras have their set of use cases.

室内摄像头有着完全不同的使用场景。

Indoor cameras have a very different set of use cases.

顺便说一下，这正是像‘始终在家摄像头’这样的产品灵感来源——有些客户不希望在每个房间都安装摄像头。

And by the way, that that's what inspires something like the Always Home Cam, which is some customers will not wanna put a camera in every room.

他们就是不想。

They just won't.

主要是出于隐私考虑。

It just for the privacy reasons.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

也有些人愿意在某些房间安装摄像头。

There are some that will want to put them in some rooms.

他们想监控自己的狗或猫，而这些宠物通常总在同一个地方睡觉，他们希望偶尔能远程查看一下宠物的情况。

They want to keep track of their dog and their dog norm or cat and then normally sleeps in one place, they want to have that experience to be able to drop in it from time to time on their pet.

对于那些不希望在每个房间都安装摄像头的客户来说，当他们外出度假或上班时，如果触发了警报，他们想看看发生了什么——是误报还是真实情况，能够有一架无人机直接飞过去查看，而无需在每个房间都安装摄像头，这似乎是一个非常好的解决方案。

So for the customer that doesn't want a camera in every home, but when they're away, they're on vacation or they're at work and something triggers and they want to see what's going on, is it a false alarm or is it something actually real, Being able to have a drone go straight there, but not have to have the idea that you have cameras in every room, it seems like a really good solution for that.

首先，我们的思维模式是区分室内或向内拍摄的设备与向外拍摄的设备。

So the first thing is our mental model is things that are indoors or inward facing versus outward facing.

我们有着完全不同的思维模式。

We have a very different mental model.

但在所有这些之下，还存在一个横向的隐私层面。

But there is a horizontal level of privacy that's underneath all of those.

你必须倾听客户和专家的反馈。

And you do have to listen to the feedback from customers, pundits.

我认为我们确实做到了。

And I think we have.

我们最初为警察部门设立的首批响应计划，也包括消防部门和其他机构，我们听取了客户的反馈。

What was our original first responder program for police departments, but also fire departments and other things, we heard the feedback from customers.

由于这些反馈，我们在过去两年里彻底改变了这个计划。

And we've totally changed that program over the last two years because of that feedback.

我认为不听人们的反馈才是不负责任的。

I think what would be irresponsible would be not to listen to people.

所以现在，警方必须提供有效的案件编号。

And so now it's a police department has to have a valid case number.

他们不能只是随意要求查看视频。

They can't just ask for the videos.

他们必须提交正式申请。

They have to put a request out.

客户必须主动选择同意。

Customers have to opt into it.

这个项目和以前相比已经有了很大的不同。

It's a much different program than it than it once was.

另一个例子是，有些客户根本不想让任何人接触到他们的视频。

Another example of that was some customers just don't want anybody to ever have their videos.

因此，这并不容易，我们仍在逐个摄像头地推进这一措施。

And so it was not easy, and we're still rolling this out by cameras.

但现在，许多Ring摄像头已经可以开启端到端加密。

But but a bunch of the Ring cameras now, you can turn on end to end encryption.

就连亚马逊，我们也无法获取密钥。

Then even Amazon, we don't have the key.

即使我们想给任何人视频，也无法提供，因为我们没有解锁它们的能力。

We couldn't give the videos to anybody if we tried because we don't we don't have the ability to unlock them.

因此，可查看的视频。

And so viewable videos.

我们大约六个月前推出了这个功能的首个版本，目前还没有其他公司这么做。

We rolled that out, the first versions of that, maybe six months ago or so, and we're still nobody else is doing that.

所以我认为，我们的职责是保持领先。

So I I think it our job is to stay ahead.

当我们推出一些让客户或评论家产生负面反应的功能时，我们应该倾听这些反馈。

And when we do roll things out that that customers react negatively to or or pundits, that we should listen to that feedback.

当他们是对的时，我们应该愿意改变自己的想法。

And when they're right, we should be willing to change our minds.

我认为你在那个案例中看到了我们的做法。

And I think you saw us do that in that case.

那么，你认为这个心理模型需要多长时间？

So How long do you kind of the mental model.

你觉得这个周期需要多长时间？

How long do you think that cycle takes?

我们以Astro为例吧。

Let's use Astro as an example.

它已经发布了。

It's announced.

你可以找到大量正面和负面的反馈，但还没有人真正拥有它。

There's endless amount of feedback, positive and negative that you can go find about it, but no one has it yet.

还没有人体验过它。

No one's experienced it yet.

你会等到有一定数量的人拥有它并开始留下评价后，才觉得 okay 吗？

Do you wait until some x number of people have it and they start leaving reviews before you're like, okay.

我们必须开始纳入反馈，还是说，嘿。

We have to start incorporating feedback, or is it, hey.

这东西还没发布呢。

This thing isn't shipped yet.

我们收到了很多反馈。

We're seeing a lot of feedback.

我们可以在产品出厂前进行调整。

We can adjust the product before it goes out the door.

首先，已经有人拥有它了。

First of all, there are people that have it.

但他们并不是亚马逊员工。

They're just not people that aren't Amazonians.

所以，你知道，我们并不是只把它做出来就直接发货了。

So, you know, you know, we we don't just build it and then ship it off.

我家里断断续续地用过一个 Astro 的版本，已经超过一年了。

We I've had a version of Astro off and on in my house for over a year.

是我很好吗？

Is it me good?

有时候我特别喜欢它。

There's time I love it.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，做个产品评测员吧。

I mean, be a product reviewer.

什么好，什么不好？

What's good and what's bad?

这取决于你什么时候问我的这个问题。

Well, it depends on when you had asked me that question.

如果你一年前问我的话，我会告诉你它每次都无法自己回到充电座。

If you'd asked me that question a year ago, I would have told you it can't find its way back to its dock every time.

但现在我们已经解决了这个问题。

But now that's we've solved that problem.

而且你知道，随着时间推移，软件会变得越来越好。

And, you know, so over the course of time, you know, software gets better.

所以我们把这些设备放到用户家里，让他们实际试用。

And we that's why we put these things in people's homes and try them out.

这并不意味着每个参与测试的客户都喜欢它，但我们不会发布产品，直到我们认为有足够的用户真正喜爱它，能够在真实消费者中找到那些同样认同这一点的人。

It doesn't mean every customer loves it that is beta testing it, but we don't ship it until we think there is enough customers that love it that we can find those customers out in the wild, real consumers, that will also share that conviction.

我每周肯定都会听到一个有趣的故事，因为我们会在测试者之间轮换设备。

And I have an anecdote every week for sure because we rotate units from beta tester to beta tester.

许多测试者会给我或直接发消息给ASTRO团队，说：别把设备拿走。

And many of the beta testers send a note to me or to the directly to the ASTRO team, and they say, Don't take it away.

当然，他们并没有为这个设备付费，所以这并不能保证产品一定会成功，但它是一个很好的信号，表明人们在某些使用场景下真的很喜欢它。

Now, obviously, they didn't pay for the device, so that doesn't guarantee success, but it's a good signal that people love it for certain types of use cases.

但要回答你具体的问题，我不是想回避，我只是想让你了解我们的流程：一旦我们认为外部用户会喜欢它，达到某个阈值后，我们就会立即开始获取这些反馈。

But to answer the specific question, I don't mean to duck it, I just want to give you a sense of how our process once we get over a threshold that we think external people will love it, customers, then we will start getting that feedback instantaneously.

但我们也并不天真。

But we're also not naive.

我读过你的文章。

I read your articles.

我读过其他文章。

I read other articles.

我在推特上，阅读人们对此的评论。

I am on Twitter, and I read what people are saying about it.

但我以乐观的眼光看待这些评论，同时也理解到，现在每个人都是基于有限的信息在工作。

But I look at those comments through an optimistic eye and also understand that everybody right now is working off limited information.

如果我在发布Echo那一周给你看同样的那些推特动态、Reddit帖子和文章，质疑声会铺天盖地。

If I had showed you that exact same group of Twitter feeds, Reddit feeds, articles, the week after we announced Echo, the cynicism would would be dripping.

是的。

Yeah.

那时简直让人难以置信。

It was just it was like, oh my god.

我们怎么可能把一个装着麦克风的薯片罐子放在人们的厨房里？

How could we possibly have this Pringle can with microphones on it in people's kitchens?

亚马逊太疯狂了。

The Amazon's insane.

这注定要失败。

This is destined for failure.

六个月后，他们又推出了下一代Fire Phone。

And it's, like, six months later, here's their next fire phone.

这基本上就是当时的情绪。

That was basically the sentiment.

我记得。

I remember.

我当时非常

And I was very

支持Echo。

pro, Echo.

我不会特意去提它。

I won't point to put it.

嗯，我喜欢这一点。

Well, I I like that.

但那时候还没人拥有它。

That's but nobody had it yet.

当时没人家里有这个设备；如果是那样的话，我可能一年半前就已经在家里用了，但他们根本不知道它会这么令人愉快。

Nobody had had it in their house for in that case, I'd probably had it in a year and a half in my home, and they didn't know how delightful it could be.

顺便说一下，我们发布时它只会做13件事。

By the way, it only did 13 things when we shipped it.

所以，它还有很长的路要走。

So, like, it had a lot of a long a long way to go.

我想稍后再聊聊Echo。

I wanna I wanna talk about Echo in a second.

让我先问最后一个关于Astro的问题。

Let me but let me ask this last question on Astro.

你熟悉我的同事迪特尔·博恩吗？

You're familiar with my colleague Dieter Bohn.

迪特和我每周在我们的另一个节目《The Vergecast》上都会进行无数场哲学辩论。

Dieter and I have a million philosophical debates every week on our other show, the Vergecast.

Astro发布后，我们展开了以下讨论。

After Astro announced, we had the following debate.

什么是机器人？

What is a robot?

因为你曾被引用说过，在足够长的时间线上，每个美国家庭都会拥有一台机器人。

Because you have been quoted as saying on a long enough timeline, every household in America will have a robot in it.

Astro是你开启这一进程的尝试。

Astro is your attempt to begin this process.

坦白说，我觉得Astro很酷。

Candidly, I think Astro is neat.

我喜欢会移动的东西。

I like things that move around.

我喜欢机器人。

I like robots.

我喜欢那些带有笑脸的东西。

I like things with smiley faces on them.

我不知道它有什么实际用途。

I don't know what the utility of it is.

它有什么任务？它没有手臂。

What is the task it's gonna it doesn't have arms.

它在我家里能自动化什么任务，就像我想到的扫地机器人那样？

What is the task it's gonna automate for me in my home the way that I might think of a Roomba?

对吧？

Right?

扫地机器人能自动完成吸尘的任务。

A Roomba automates the task of vacuum cleaning.

你认为 Astro 的具体用途是什么，让它算得上一个机器人？

What do you think the specific utility of of Astro is that makes it a robot?

因为对我来说，这是一个哲学层面的争论。

Because that to me is a is a philosophical debate.

我不会将机器人的定义局限于仅解决家务这类直接问题。我会回答这个问题，但不会把机器人只定义为解决琐事的工具。

I would not limit the definition of robe I will answer the question, but I would not limit the definition of robot to only direct problem solving of a chore.

顺便说一句，那些都是非常优秀的机器人。

Those are very good robots, by the way.

我们的配送中心里充满了机器人，它们让我们的员工更安全、更高效。

Our fulfillment centers are filled to the brim with robots that have made our associates safer and more productive.

我们仍然雇佣大量人员，但那些更单调的任务可以由机器人来承担。

We still hire lots of people, but the more mundane tasks can be picked up by robotics.

所以这些是非常好的应用场景，而吸尘器显然已经成为非常成功的家用机器人。

So those are very good use cases, and a vacuum obviously has been a very successful home robot.

但与此同时，拥有一个陪伴型的伙伴也带来了很多愉悦感。

But there's also just delightfulness of having something around that is a companion too.

我认为，这一点也可以成为优秀机器人的特质。

That, I would also say, could be a quality of a good robot.

我买过每一款推出过的Aibo，那确实是一款机器人，而且非常令人愉快。

I've bought every version of Aibo that's come out, and that is a robot, and it's delightful.

它并不能解决任何问题。

It doesn't solve any problems.

你可能会说，它没有普及是因为它没有做到这一点。

And you could argue it didn't get big because it didn't do that.

这是一个不同的哲学观点。

That's a different philosophical argument.

但它以自己的方式令人愉悦，因为它有个性，诸如此类。

But but it was delightful in its own way because it had personality and that kind of thing.

所以我认为，回到问题的本质，ASTRO 确实能解决一些实际问题。

And so I think what ASTRO, getting back to the root of the question, is it does have some practical things it solves.

我也是那种不在家里每个房间都安装摄像头的人。

I am also one of these persons that does not put a camera in every room of my house.

我家里确实有摄像头，不是那种 Echo Show 的摄像头。

I have a camera inside my house, you know, non Echo Show camera.

我有一台专用的摄像头。

I have I have one dedicated camera.

它在我的应用程序里。

It's on my app.

它叫酒柜摄像头。

It's called Liquor Cabinet Cam.

我有青少年孩子，所以我决定不用不方便的锁和钥匙，而是直接对着我的酒柜安装了一个摄像头，效果出奇地好。

And I I have teenage kids, and I I decided instead of a lock and key, which is inconvenient for me, I just pointed a camera straight down on my liquor cabinet, and it's unbelievably effective.

但除此之外，我得说一下。

But beyond that, I have to say.

每个人都可以从这件事中学到一点。

There's one thing everyone can take away from this.

就是酒柜。

It's liquor cabinet.

没错。

There you go.

那就是说，是的。

That's if yeah.

我最重要的育儿建议。

My salient parent advice.

就在那儿，就在那儿。

There there there it is.

但当我旅行时，我确实很在意安全。

But I do when I travel, I do care about security.

我真的在意。

I really do.

这个产品改变了我的情况，因为它会围绕房子巡逻，执行例行检查，让我感觉更安心。

This product has changed that for me because it does go around the house and it does a routine, and I feel better about that.

这是一种安心感。

It's peace of mind.

所以这是一个绝对的使用场景。

So that is an absolute use case.

另一点我想说的是，让一个摄像头在家中轮式移动，以猫或狗的视角观察，竟然出奇地令人愉悦，而且比我一年前预测的更有用。

The other thing that I would say is moving a camera around your house on wheels at a cat or dog eye view is strangely delightful and more useful than I would have predicted a year ago.

顺便说一下，当我上班时，我会用它去和我的孩子们说话。

By the way, that's go and talk to my kids when I'm at work.

我并没有像你那样经常待在地下室，但你知道的，我现在在办公室。

I haven't been staying in the basement quite as much as maybe you, but you know, so I'm at the office.

我们正在开发一些东西，所以我在这里的时间更多了。

We're building some things, so I've been here more.

也可能是我去查看狗狗们的情况。

It might also be me checking on the dogs.

我在产品发布时就用了这个例子。

It might be, I use that example in the launch.

我使用它的频率比我预想的要高得多。

I use that more than I thought I would.

它对我来说确实有实用价值。

It has utility for me.

还有一些紧急的使用场景，比如你忘了关炉子、忘了关熨斗，诸如此类的事情。

And there's some urgent use cases, which are you left the stove on, you left the iron on, and those kinds of things.

当然，目前我们仅限于一层楼，但这些都是真实的应用场景。

Certainly, we're limited to one floor right now, but those are real use cases.

另一个引起人们共鸣的是我之前提到的，那就是为亲人提供安心感。

And then the other one that has resonated with folks is the one I talked about earlier, which is peace of mind for a loved one.

如果你行动能力稍有下降，但我想和我父亲交谈，我想与他沟通。

If you get slightly less mobile, but you want to talk in my case, I want to talk to my dad, and I want to communicate with him.

机器人可以帮他接电话。

The robot can take the call to him.

机器人还可以四处移动，它配备了这些重力轮子。

The robot can also be around in it it it has, these gravity wheels.

它能判断你在房子中的位置，并在你附近停留。

It figures out where you are in the house and hangs out where you are.

这种设计在某种意义上也让人感到非常安心。

That's also very comforting in a strange way.

但它让我知道，我父亲每天都有起身活动。

But it allows then for me to know that my dad was up and about every day.

因此，这也是一种安心感。

And so that also is peace of mind.

最后，我想说，身边有Alexa确实很有用。

And then finally, I would just say there is something about Alexa near at hand that is also useful.

并非必需。

Not required.

我不会说，你可以把Echo Show放在每个房间里，这样就很好了。

I wouldn't say like, you know, you could put an Echo Show in every room and it's fine.

我家确实已经全面接入了Alexa，它确实有这种独特的优点，但即使你没有，只要Alexa就在身边，随时可以回答诸如‘电视里那个演员是谁’或者‘最近世界发生了什么大事’这类问题，也非常有用。

I do have a house that's very Alexa fied, and it it does it does have that unique quality, but if you don't, Alexa that just is right there and ready to answer the debate over what actor is on the TV at that particular point in time or what what might be going on in in world events is also very useful.

顺便说一下，就像我知道你希望回到Echo的话题，但它也会像Echo一样。

So by the way, it's like I it will be like I know you said you wanna get back to Echo, but it will be like Echo too.

我们一推出产品，就会有人发现我们在测试阶段完全没注意到的功能。

The second we ship it, somebody will figure out something we totally didn't catch in beta.

关于Echo，我经常举的最好例子就是智能家居。

And the best example on Echo that I use a lot is Smart Home.

当我们推出Echo时，它根本不能实现智能家居功能。

When we shipped Echo, it didn't do Smart Home at all.

那人们是怎么让它发挥作用的呢？

And how did people make it work?

他们篡改了我们的待办事项列表。

Well, they hacked our to do list.

他们对亚马逊网站上那个关于Alexa待办事项的页面进行了HTML抓取，然后用它来触发某些操作。

They did an HTML scrape on the to do page that was up on amazon.com slash whatever Alexa to dos, and then they used if to trigger something.

当我们看到这一点时，我们立刻意识到：天哪。

And so as soon as we saw that, we're like, oh, wow.

我们怎么会忽略了智能家居功能呢？

How did we miss Smart Home?

这是一个失误，但我们已经修复了。

That was a mistake, and we fixed it.

我们先休息一下，回来后，戴夫和我会更深入地聊聊Alexa是如何为亚马逊赚钱的。

We're gonna take a break, but when we come back, Dave and I are gonna go a little deeper on Alexa, how it makes money for Amazon.

Decoder 的支持来自 Quo。

Support for Decoder comes from Quo.

对于企业来说，沟通在寻找和留住新客户时至关重要。

If you're a business, communication is key when it comes to finding and keeping new customers.

因此，一旦沟通出现问题，就意味着你的钱在流失。

So when communication breaks down, that means it's money out of your pocket.

QUO，拼写为 q-u-o，是一个企业电话系统，确保你永远不会错过与客户联系的机会。

QUO, spelled q u o, is a business phone system that makes sure you never miss an opportunity to connect with your customers.

Quo 让你可以在一个简洁的界面中查看来电、短信、语音邮件、转录内容和联系人信息。

Quo lets you see calls, texts, voicemails, transcripts, and contact details all in one clean view.

这意味着你的团队沟通更迅速、保持同步，并提供更个性化的体验。

That means your team communicates faster, stays aligned, and delivers a more personal experience.

需要随时随地使用 Quo 吗？

Need Quo on the go?

你可以通过手机或电脑上的应用程序直接使用 Quo，无论你在哪儿都能掌控你的沟通。

You can use Quo right from an app on your phone or computer so you can stay on top of your communications wherever you are.

此外，你的整个团队可以共享一个号码，并像使用共享收件箱一样协作处理来电和短信。

Plus, your whole team can share one number and collaborate on calls and texts like a shared inbox.

Quo AI 会自动记录通话、生成摘要并突出显示后续步骤，确保不会遗漏任何信息。

Quoze AI automatically logs calls, generates summaries, and highlights next steps so nothing gets lost.

它甚至可以筛选潜在客户或在非工作时间回复，确保即使你已下线，业务依然保持响应。

It can even qualify leads or respond after hours, ensuring your business stays responsive even when you're finally offline.

你可以让今年成为不再错过任何机会和任何客户的一年。

You can make this the year where no opportunity and no customer slips away.

你可以免费试用 Quo，访问 quo.com/decoder 还可享受前六个月 20% 的折扣。

You can try Quo for free, plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com/decoder.

网址是 quo.com/decoder。

That's quo.com/decoder.

Quo。

Quo.

不错过任何来电，不错过任何客户。

No missed calls, no missed customers.

本节目由领英赞助。

Support for this show comes from LinkedIn.

想象一下，如果所有包含‘我需要一个合适的人来做这份工作’这句台词的电影，都妥协为‘随便找个人就行’会怎样？

Imagine if any of the movies that included the line, I need the right person for the job, settled for, I'll just take about anyone.

有多少次劫案会失败？

How many heists would have failed?

有多少笔交易会泡汤？

How many deals would have fallen through?

有多少次秘密特工任务会以灾难收场？

How many secret spy missions would have ended in disaster?

那么，招聘时你为什么还要接受随便什么人呢？

So why would you accept just anyone when hiring for your business?

当你需要为这份工作找到合适的人选时，可以求助领英招聘。

When you need the right person for the job, you can turn to LinkedIn jobs.

现在，领英招聘推出了全新的AI助手，让你更有信心找到那些别处无法寻得的顶尖人才。

And now LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant, so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else.

使用 LinkedIn Jobs 的 AI 助手，你可以跳过繁琐的步骤和招聘术语。

With LinkedIn Jobs AI assistant, you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon.

它会根据你为职位设定的标准筛选求职者，只筛选出最匹配的人选，让你不必在一堆简历中苦苦筛选。

It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes.

一次就招对人。

Hire right the first time.

免费在 linkedin.com/partner 发布职位，然后推广职位以使用 LinkedIn Jobs 的新 AI 助手，更轻松快捷地找到顶尖候选人。

Post your job for free at linkedin.com/partner, then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates.

免费发布职位，请访问 linkedin.com/partner。

That's linkedin.com/partner to post your job for free.

条款和条件适用。

Terms and conditions apply.

我们回来了。

We're back.

在我们休息之前，我们刚谈到 Echo 和 Alexa。

Before we took a break, we were just start talking about the Echo and Alexa.

Echo显然于2014年发布，这是一个大获成功的概念验证。

The Echo, obviously, was released in 2014, proof of concept that blew up.

你说话，智能助手就会在房间里回答你。

You talk, a smart assistant answers you in the room.

到目前为止，我们都了解Echo是什么。

By this point, we all know what an Echo is.

我们都清楚Alexa是如何工作的。

We all know how Alexa works.

但我对它如何盈利还不是很清楚。

But I'm pretty fuzzy in how it makes money.

所以我问了戴夫。

So I asked Dave.

让我们从智能家居的角度来谈谈Echo。

Let's talk about Echo in the context of smart home.

这是戴夫·伦特的又一个备受期待的过渡。

Another well anticipated segue from Dave Lent.

但Alexa已经从一个科学实验演变为如今无处不在的技术产品。

But Alexa has gone from kind of a science experiment to now this ubiquitous piece of technology.

它拥有全球范围的品牌知名度。

It has worldwide brand recognition.

我所看到的所有研究都表明，人们主要还是用这些语音助手在厨房里设置定时器和播放音乐。

All the research I've seen still says people are mostly using these voice assistants to set timers in the kitchen and play some music.

这两项是绝对领先的使用场景，其他所有用途的使用比例都只有个位数，无论排序如何。

And those are the top two use cases by far and everything else is, you know, single digits in whatever order.

我用它来控制智能家居，但总体使用频率也很低。

I use it for smart home stuff, but single digits whenever.

你的研究显示的是这样吗？

Does your research say?

基本是一样的吗？

Is that basically the same?

有什么不同吗？

Is it different?

是的

Yeah.

不一样。

It's different.

它的长尾效应比你刚才描述的要长得多。

It's a much longer tail than what you just described.

你知道的？

You know?

现在音乐很流行吗？

That now is music popular?

是的

Yeah.

它某种程度上把音乐带回了家里。

It sort of brought music back into the house.

但在Echo和Alexa的幕后，我们今年发布活动时稍微聊过这个话题，那就是‘环境智能’的概念。

But behind the scenes of Echo and Alexa, and we kinda started talking about this a bit at this year's launch event, is this concept of ambient intelligence.

而且，很多人想说，哦，Echo 和 Alexa 是一个操作系统。

And, like, a lot of people wanna go and say, oh, Echo and Alexa is this operating system.

这是一种对基于 Alexa 构建的东西的十九世纪六十年代的观念。

That is a that is a nineteen sixties view of what gets built on Alexa.

这种环境智能看起来更像一种织物，像一种微处理器织物，其中有很多接入点和退出点。

The ambient intelligence looks more like a fabric, like a microprocessor fabric, where there's lots of on ramps and lots of off ramps.

有时 Alexa 会介入其中，有时则不会。

Sometimes Alexa is involved in the middle of that, and sometimes it isn't.

但它正在以一种非常智能的方式，常常在幕后、无感地，路由你家中乃至越来越在车内的各种复杂事务。

But it's kind of routing all this complicated thing that's going on in your home increasingly in your car in a very intelligent way, often behind the scenes ambiently.

所以，这也就是说，是的。

So that's a way of saying that, yes.

人们会设置定时器吗？

Do people set timers?

当然会。

For sure.

人们会用它来听音乐吗？

Do people do music?

当然会。

For sure.

但人们会向Alexa提出数量惊人的各种问题。

But, like, people ask an unbelievably large number of questions to Alexa.

你

Do you

会把Alexa看作是一种通用搜索引擎吗？

think of Alexa as a general search engine in that way?

我不太愿意称它为通用搜索引擎。

I don't think I'd call it a general search engine.

它更像是一种环境搜索引擎，因为通用搜索引擎通常是你主动搜索某个特定目标。

It's not it's it's an ambient search engine in that a general search engine, you're often spearfishing for a specific end goal.

人们向Alexa提问的，往往是那些当时最在脑海中、就在身边的事情。

The things that people tend to ask Alexa are the things that are top of mind and right around you at that moment.

它可能只是帮助完成作业的快速解答，或者是一个简单的事实查询，又或者是想知道电视节目中那个人是谁。

It might be just a quick help on homework, or it might be a quick fact, or it might be who is that person on the TV show.

我认为，随着时间推移，它会逐渐演变成更像这种搜索方式。

It's very I think over time, it will evolve to more search like that.

但今天，手机在这方面已经相当不错了。

But today, you know, the phone's pretty good at that.

因此，它需要一种完全不同的搜索形式。

And so it it takes a whole different form of search.

但我只想说，问答功能真的非常重要。

But I would just say that that Q and A is really important.

智能家居的规模比你想象的要大得多。

Smart home's bigger than you would give it credit for.

这不仅仅是你一个人的事。

It's not just you.

现在你可能已经更深入地迈入了智能家居的门槛，而我们还有很多工作要做，让客户更容易使用。

Now you probably are more advanced down the threshold of making your home smart, and we have a lot of work there to make it easier for customers.

但只拥有一两个智能插座或灯泡的人数非常多。

But the number of people that just have one smart plug or one light bulb is very high.

每周都有数十亿次与Alexa的互动，而音乐并不构成这一数字的主体。

And every single week, there are billions of interactions with Alexa, and music does not make up that that number.

Alexa是如何盈利的？

How does Alexa make money?

嗯，它已经在一些领域开始盈利了。

Well, there's places it's already making money.

顺便说一句，这不仅对我们有利，对其他人也是如此。

And by the way, not only for us, but for, you know, others.

我们之前提到过音乐，你知道，音乐早就存在了。

And we've mentioned music and, you know, music was around.

流媒体音乐早就存在了，但它基本上已经迁移到了你的手机上。

Streaming music was around, but it it it had migrated to your phone, basically.

每个人都像这样戴着耳机，我现在也在戴耳机，以方便进行这个播客，但音乐体验已经发展到一种一对一的状态。

Everybody had headphones in like this, which I'm doing right now to, you know, facilitate this podcast, but it's a function of the music experience had gotten to a point where it was one on one.

发生的情况是，Alexa以及如今的智能音箱整体，将音乐体验转变为一种可以在家中与家人朋友共享的环境式体验，这使得家庭场景中的音乐使用量大幅增长了数倍，不仅限于亚马逊音乐，还包括Spotify、Apple Music等平台。

What happened is Alexa, and now smart speakers in general, has moved that to an ambient experience that you can share with your family and friends in in the house, and that has increased home usage of music many, many fold, and not just for Amazon Music, but for Spotify and Apple Music, etcetera.

这些服务都在盈利，当然，亚马逊音乐也从中受益。

And they're making all of those are making money, including, by the way, Amazon Music benefited from that.

同样，听有声读物也是这样，我们有一个这样的服务，叫做Audible。

Similarly, listening to audiobooks, which we have a service like that, which is Audible.

很多人听有声读物，我们也能从中赚钱。

A lot of people listen to audiobooks, and we we can make we can make money on that.

我们提到了智能家居。

We mentioned smart home.

智能家居的使用量增长了数百倍。

Smart home is up hundreds and hundreds of percent.

你可以看看我们推出智能家居功能时，Alexa上的智能家居功能以及智能设备的销售情况。

You can just look at when we launched our smart home domain, the the functionality of smart home on Alexa and track smart home device sales.

我们在亚马逊上追踪这些数据，但我们的份额只是整体销量的一小部分，是的。

We look at it on Amazon, but we're a fraction of the overall sales Yeah.

但让我问你一个问题。

But let me ask you this.

我拥有一个Alexa设备和一个Echo Show。

So I own Alexa device and an Echo Show.

是的。

Yep.

比如，我有一个飞利浦Hue灯泡。

I've got a Philips Hue bulb, for example.

我一次性支付了Alexa设备的费用。

I pay you once for your Alexa device.

我一次性支付了Hue灯泡的费用。

I pay Philips once for the Hue bulb.

我说：打开灯。

I say turn on the light.

当我让灯打开时，你并不会因此赚钱。

You don't make any money when I say turn on the light.

钱已经赚到了，你现在只是承担运行所有云服务和Alexa环境架构的成本。

You've the money's already made, and you're just incurring the cost of running all the cloud services and the Alexa ambient fabric.

你们从Alexa哪里获得直接收入？

Where are you generating direct revenue from Alexa?

我提到了音乐。

Well, I mentioned music.

所以每次我说播放一首歌，亚马逊的Alexa部门就能赚钱？

So every time I say play a song, the Alexa division of Amazon gets money?

亚马逊音乐确实能赚钱，但我们也得为此分一杯羹。

Well, Amazon Music gets money, but we get you know, we'll take equal credit for that.

我们会分到一部分。

We get some of that.

Spotify和其他平台也能分到不少。

Spotify Spotify gets a bunch of that and others do.

但以智能灯泡为例，我想把这个例子说清楚：你第一次购买智能灯泡时，希望是从亚马逊买的，但也可能是在沃尔玛买的。

But using the smart bulb example, because I think I I wanna play that one through, which is you buy that first smart bulb, hopefully from Amazon, but you might buy it from Walmart.

但之后你很可能会再买五个智能灯泡，然后这些灯泡用久了会坏掉，你需要陆续更换新的。

But then you're gonna likely buy five more smart bulbs, and then those will burn out, you'll need new ones of those over time.

随着时间推移，你可能会逐渐转向其他由Alexa控制的产品，因为这已经成了你的新常态，而且你会不断扩展这种使用范围。

And over time, you might then migrate into something else that that is Alexa controlled because you that's become, you know, your new normal, and and you expand that.

但我们不会从每一笔这样的销售中都赚到钱。

And we're not gonna get every one of those sales on Amazon.

对吧？

Right?

但每次你在亚马逊购买灯泡时，我们都会赚一些钱。

But every time you buy a bulb on Amazon, we make we make some money.

顺便说一句，如果你从沃尔玛购买，沃尔玛也应该赚钱。

By the way, Walmart should make money if you buy from them too.

我对这个没什么意见。

I'm I'm fine with that.

这没问题。

That's okay.

我只是想以我能想到的最直接的方式，把收入直接归因于Alexa。

I'm just trying to I'm just trying to assign direct revenue to Alexa in, like, the most basic way I can think of.

好吧。

So okay.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

Alexa让我更愿意购买更多的智能家电和智能设备。

Alexa inspires me to buy more smart appliances, smart devices.

我给你一个更直接的例子。

I'll give you a more direct example.

我们把Ring和Echo更好地整合在一起。

We make it better Ring and Echo together.

顺便说一下，我们对Arlo和其他品牌也是这么做的。

By the way, we do that for Arlo and others too.

现在你可能会选择订阅Ring服务，每月3美元。

And now you might choose to take a Ring subscription, which is $3 a month.

也许你只是纠结于收入直接流向哪里，但至少这些收入会汇总到两个部门，再归到我这里。

And maybe you're just getting hung up on where the revenue flows directly, but then that that at least rolls up into two divisions that roll into me.

当然。

Sure.

我只是

I just

那你觉得怎么样？

So how about that?

我也认同这一点。

I buy that too.

我只是在拿这个和其他大型平台供应商做比较。

I just I'm comparing that to other gigantic platform vendors.

我跟很多其他节目中的高管和创作者聊过，他们都非常清楚平台是如何从他们身上抽取租金的。

I talked to a lot of other executives and creators in the show who are deeply aware of where the platform extracts rents from them.

对吧？

Right?

所以你是Twitter，你想做Twitter订阅，但苹果会抽取每笔应用内购买的30%。

So you are Twitter, you wanna do Twitter subscriptions, Apple's gonna take 30% of every in app purchase.

这已经引发了诉讼和愤怒的监管机构，整个事情就是这样。

This has led to lawsuits and angry regulators, the whole thing.

目前，Alexa平台上并没有发生类似的情况。

None of that is occurring on the Alexa platform at this moment in time.

我在想，你有没有考虑过这个问题？

And I I'm wondering, is that a thing that you think about?

这一切都是为了支持亚马逊的其他部门，比如音乐和零售商店吗？

Is it all there to support Amazon's other divisions like music and the retail store?

还是说你们打算在上面投放广告？

Or is it we're gonna run ads on it?

这样的未来会是什么样子？还是说根本不需要直接收入，因为亚马逊已经足够庞大？

What does that future look like, or does it never need that direct revenue because Amazon is so vast?

不用。

No.

不是后者。

It's not the latter.

我的意思是，我们显然是家营利性公司，我们希望赚钱，为股东创造价值，同时让客户满意。

I mean, you we're obviously a for profit company, and we we wanna make we wanna make wanna make money and return value to our shareholders while delighting customers.

这才是最重要的。

Like, that's the most important thing.

但很容易回头去看其他平台——我甚至都不太把Alexa当作一个平台，但就像你描述的那些其他平台。

But it's easy to look backwards at other I don't really even think of Alexa as a platform, but other platforms as you described it.

它们往往需要很长时间才能找到并稳定下来自己的商业模式。

It took it often takes them a long time to find what that settle out that business model.

你知道的。

You know?

据我回忆，第一代iPhone并没有应用商店。

The first iPhone, best to my recollection, did not have an App Store on it.

说得有道理。

Fair enough.