汉克·格林畅谈YouTube、亿万富翁与算法

你的团队有哪些人？

Who is on your team?

你们主要做哪些项目？

What kind of projects do you work on?

开放创新是指欧莱雅与外部初创公司建立的所有合作关系。

Open innovation is all the partnerships that we have in L'Oreal working with startups outside.

现在正是开展开放创新的好时机，因为我们正在涉足垂直农业、可持续种植和生物技术等领域。

And it's really a great time right now to be doing open innovation because we're doing things in vertical farming and sustainable cultivation and biotech.

我们开展所有这些合作，而我们的团队负责管理这些合作。

So we do all those partnerships and our team is responsible for them.

增强美颜团队则涵盖了十五年前我们从零开始打造的所有技术，如今我们如何将美颜与科技结合起来？

And the augmented beauty team is all the tech that started fifteen years ago when we kind of had a blank page and now how can we bring beauty and tech together?

你们如何决定投资哪些项目？

How do you decide which projects to invest in?

一开始，我努力推动大家，让他们意识到美颜对科技而言是相关的。

At the beginning, I was trying to push as much as I could to get people to think that beauty was relevant for tech.

所以我们真的以技术为中心。

So we're really tech centric.

随着时间的推移，我们开始思考如何利用技术来提升我们的美容产品。

And then over time we started thinking about how to look more at beauty products that we can upgrade thanks to tech.

因此，我们现在在选择项目时有了一套稍微更系统的方法。

So we have a little bit more kind of process behind how we choose projects now.

我们尝试做一些类似升级吹风机的事情，因为四个人中有三个人家里都有吹风机。

We try and kind of do things like upgrading the hairdryer to be able to do three out of four people have a hairdryer at home.

那我们怎么才能让它变得更好呢？

So how can we make it better?

或者今年，我们正在使用的直发器、LED面罩之类的产品。

Or this year, like the flat irons that we're using and LED masks and stuff like that.

所以我们确实有一套这样的流程，但也会留出一些空间给偶然的灵感和创造力。

So we do have a little bit of that kind of process, but we leave some space for serendipity and some creativity.

我们从科学家到工程师都有，也让科学家们发挥创意，提出一些新的巧妙想法。

So we have scientists all the way to engineers, and we let the scientists kind of think of some new clever ideas too.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

我正在和汉克·格林讨论创作者经济，以及为什么它有点混乱。

I'm talking with Hank Green about the creator economy and why it's kind of a mess.

我明白这是怎么运作的。

I see that how that works.

你提到了Instagram。

You mentioned Instagram.

我明白这对TikTok用户和Instagram用户来说是怎么运作的，对吧？平台没有给他们任何钱，但他们把自己变成了QVC。

I see how that works for the TikTokers and for the Instagramers, right, where the platform is paying them no money and they've turned themselves in a QVC.

直白地说，这就是这些经济模式的运作方式。

Like straightforwardly, that's how those economies work.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我们真正要思考的是，电视当初是怎么运作的？

I mean, so so so like really what we're looking at is like, well what about the way TV worked?

你认为电视是否创造了更高价值的内容？

And do you think that and and like the question is, did TV create a higher value content?

答案是肯定的。

And the answer is yes.

电视创造了更多人愿意花钱购买、更多人因此赚到钱的内容。

Created content that, like, more people spent more money on, more made more money making.

参与内容创作的人数更多。

There was there are more people involved in the creation.

当时经济更繁荣，而现在则衰退了。

There was a more robust economy, and now there is less.

我们所看到的是，如果你移除了把关人，让任何人都能创作，每个人都会去创作，因为他们不需要太多钱，他们只是想创作，只想获得关注，只想在社会中感到重要。

And and what we like, what what we're looking at there is a a little bit of if you take away the gatekeepers, if you say anybody can can create, everybody will, and they don't need as much money because they just want to make things, and they just wanna get attention, and they just want, like, to feel, like important in society.

我观察到，这种现象在TikTok上更为激烈，人们进来就说：我只希望被听见，这确实有效了六个月。

And I watch this, it's much more intense on TikTok where people come in and they're like, all I want is to be heard and that worked for six months.

但随后他们就会说：但我还得付房租，而被听见的很多方面其实很糟糕，尤其是如果你不是白人男性。

And then they're like, but I also need to pay rent, and I've got a lot of there's a lot of parts of being heard that actually suck, especially if you're not a white man.

你开始面临大量发布内容、公开露面所带来的负面后果。

You're starting to get a lot of negative consequences to posting and putting your face out there.

然后你会想，我总得为这一切换来点什么吧，于是你开始寻找解决办法，这时通常会出现两条路径：要么你找到办法，通过跨平台运营、产品化等方式让事情运转起来。

And then you're like, well, I'd like something in exchange for all of this, and you're trying to figure that out, then the two sort of paths that occur is either you figure out a way to make it work by by diversifying across platforms and and grading, like, productizing, etcetera.

做播客是一个重要的选择。

Make it a podcast is a big one.

或者，你就彻底耗尽了。

And then or you burn out.

而且，你知道谁会取代你吗？

And and like and somebody and you know who replaces you?

任何人都可以。

Anybody.

是的。

Yeah.

因为所有人都会这样，前六个月他们只会惊呼：天哪。

Because they all like, for six months, they're just like, oh my god.

有人在听我说话。

Somebody's listening to me.

他们在笑我的笑话。

They're laughing at my jokes.

他们在认真关注。

They're paying attention.

我突然成了那个人，就像我以前看着的那些人，大家都想要这样。

I'm like, now I'm I'm the person who, like, I was watching and and they were like, everybody wants it.

但这些平台已经意识到，你完全可以让他们火六个月，然后就耗尽了。

But what what these platforms have have realized is that you could just have them last for six months and then burn through them.

曾经有一段时间，YouTube会谈论创作者的倦怠，但这些话题现在都消失了。

There was a time when YouTube would talk about, like, creator burnout, and that has all since receded.

我有一个观点，那就是为了参与信息经济，我们不得不忽略某些现实。

There there are these there I have this concept that there are things that we are required to ignore to, like, participate in the information economy.

其中之一就是，媒体行业的现实是我们正在与一群愿意在Instagram上免费工作的青少年竞争。

And one of them is that the reality of the media business is we are competing against an army of teenagers who will work for free on Instagram.

是的

Yeah.

对，嗯哼。

And Uh-huh.

我每次和媒体行业的人交谈时，我们都不得不忽视Instagram随时可以取代我们的过剩供给。

Every conversation I have with media people, we are required to ignore the overabundance of supply that Instagram has to replace all of us at the drop of a hat.

没有人能对这些平台施加任何影响力，因为有一支愿意免费工作的青少年大军。

Like no one has any leverage against these platforms because of the army of teenagers who will work for free.

如果你提到这一点，剩下的就只有虚无主义了。

And if you mention it, then all that's left is nihilism.

你必须忽视它，这样人们才能假装自己在生活中拥有自主权。

Like you can't, you have to ignore it so that people can pretend that they have like agency in their lives.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，我

Mean, I I

我觉得你和我都在试图弄清楚这个商业模式是什么样子。

think that but like I think that you and I are trying to figure out what the business model looks like.

这反映了像报纸当年的做法一样。

It's reflective of the like, you know, think about how newspapers did this.

你知道，曾经有一段时间，制作报纸的成本非常低。

You know, there was a time when making a newspaper was extremely cheap.

你可以以低于印刷成本的价格免费分发，因为有广告收入。

You could give them away for less than the cost of print because of advertising.

突然间，出现了大量的分发渠道、黄色新闻，每个人都为了吸引注意力而争夺，用最耸人听闻的标题，追踪谋杀案之类的事件，所以我们现在也在做同样的事。

Suddenly, there was all this distribution, yellow journalism, everybody fighting for attention with the most sensational headlines and following, you know, murders and, like, just like so so we're doing that.

这就是我们目前在线媒体所处的状态。

That's where we're at right now in in online media.

然后，最终，发生了一些变化。

And then eventually, you know, something happened.

到1980年，《华尔街日报》和《纽约时报》已经建立了编辑标准，并且投入巨大努力确保内容准确，让你可以信任它们，而不是那些糟糕的报纸。

And by 1980, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times had editorial standards and a huge mode, they worked really hard to get things right all the time so that you could trust them unlike those crappy newspapers.

就这样，这正是正在发生的事吗？

And like, that's just what's happening?

所以，你和我正在说，Vox。

And so like you and I are are saying like, Vox.

Vox 是一个品牌。

Vox is a brand.

The Verge 也是一个品牌，你可以以不同于信任 TikTok 上某个普通人的方式信任我们。

The Verge is a brand, and you can trust us in a different way than you trust some guy on TikTok.

当我20岁的时候，我不懂这个。

And when I'm when I'm 20, I don't get that.

但当我30岁的时候，我就懂了。

But when I'm 30, I do.

当我20岁的时候，我没有钱。

And when I'm 20, I don't have money.

但当我30岁的时候，我有了。

And when I'm 30, I do.

当我20岁的时候，我不会订阅任何内容。

And when I'm 20, I'm not subscribing to anything.

我只是看动态里出现的任何东西。

I'm just watching whatever comes across my feed.

当我30岁的时候，我会直接输入theverge.com，这个地球上最后一个网站。

And when I'm 30, I type in theverge.com, the last website on earth.

我们要改域名。

That we're gonna change the domain name.

它变得越来越长了。

It's it's getting much longer.

那就是‘地球上最后一个网站.com’。

That's that's very the last website on earth.com.

奇怪的是，里面嵌了两个.com。

There's oddly, there's two .coms embedded in it.

这很大胆，你知道吗？我们打算在超级碗打个广告，让人们注意到它。

It's it's it's bold, you know, we're gonna do a Super Bowl ad to get people to to pay attention to it.

是的。

Yeah.

我之所以从这里开始，而不是像‘告诉我如何申请成为非营利组织的手续’那样，是因为……

The reason I'm I'm I'm starting here instead of like, tell me about the paperwork to be a nonprofit.

我们选择了不同的道路。

You've chosen we've chosen different paths.

比如，

Like,

嗯。

I Mhmm.

我尽量让我们远离这些平台。

I try to keep us off the platforms.

我认为平台的机制会扭曲我们，所以我们才有了自己的网站，这一点我们已经深入讨论过，现在我们也有了订阅服务，因为我觉得人们直接付钱给我们……

I think the dynamics of the platforms warp us and that's why we have a website and we've talked about that at length and we have a subscription now because I think people paying us directly.

这在某种程度上让我们远离了算法的影响。

It just keeps us away from the influence of algorithms in a way.

从观看你的宣布视频、阅读你的推文以及关于你即将成为非营利组织的报道来看，对你而言，成为非营利组织在某种程度上是一种保护，让你免受投资者为了在这些平台上赚更多钱而施加的压力。

And it sounds like in watching your announcement video and reading your tweets and some of the coverage of be going to be a nonprofit, that being a nonprofit for you is in some way insulation from what an investor would have you do to make more money on these platforms in that way.

对吧？

Right?

因为如果你希望所有视频都免费，它们就必须存在于这些平台上。

Because if you want all the videos to be free, they have to exist on those platforms.

因为免费但没人观看是没有意义的。

Because free and no one watching them is not useful.

免费且人人都观看才有意义。

Free and everyone watching them is useful.

因为我们唯一想要的，最基本的目标是：没有影响力就没有触达。

Because the only thing that we want is like the base level thing that we want is, you don't have impact without reach.

是的，平台能为你带来触达，但算法会制造一系列激励机制，促使人们做出不良行为，而非营利组织能让你在一定程度上远离这些影响。

Yeah, and the platforms offer you reach, and then there's just a series of incentives the algorithms create that make people do bad things, and being a nonprofit provides you some insulation from those things.

是的，我也这么认为。

Yes, think so.

我认为我正在从所有者转变为董事会成员，而这个董事会的主要职责之一，就是确保我们不会让激励机制走向另一个极端——即只要内容制作得让人感觉良好，就不再关心传播范围了。

I think that like a thing that I wanna, I'm moving over to being a board member rather than an owner, and I think that a big thing that that board will be constructed for is to make sure that we don't let the incentives go too far in the other way, where like reach doesn't matter anymore as long as we're making content that feels really good to make.

我认为这一点你需要格外小心。

I think that that is a, that's a thing that you gotta be careful about.

因此，我们要设计好结构，以便在撰写影响力报告时，能评估我们是否在扩大影响力，是否真正触达了更多人。

So, so, know, we wanna structure it so that when we're talking about our impact reports, we're looking at whether we're growing our impact, whether we're actually reaching more people.

这是克里斯，我不知道该不该说这个，但你应该明白为什么会有这么多钱了。

And then this is Chris, I don't know if I should say this, but you see why there's so much money.

每一年《 Crash Course 》都在艰难维持，这让我非常气愤。

It kind of infuriates me that like, you know, for all, for like every year that crash courses existed, we've been scraping by.

这是因为我们创造的价值远大于我们所获得的回报。

And we and and that's because we create way more value than we capture.

我们本可以轻易成为一家极其盈利的公司，甚至可能挑战培生这样的教育媒体巨头，如果当初我们真的去雇佣一支庞大的销售团队，全力推进这件事，或许会对世界产生更大、更深远的影响。

Like we could easily have been a company that was extremely profitable and that like is, you know, potentially taking on Pearson, and maybe that would have been the thing that would have a bit like a better, bigger impact on the world if we had like actually taken on these existing educational media companies and like hired an army of salespeople and tried to do the thing.

但这不是我想走的路。

That's not for me.

所以这是其中一部分。

So that's part of it.

这不适合我。

That's not for me.

我从来就不是那种人。

I'm just that was never gonna be me.

但如果我们讨论的是影响力，而我们在这方面很擅长，比如擅长制作让人产生好奇、吸引注意力、并能为人们提供短期和长期价值的视频，那我们就应该——我不知道，

But if what we're talking about is impact, and like we're good at that, and like we're good at making videos that make people curious, that capture people's attention, that get them oriented on a thing that's gonna like provide them a value in the short and long term, then we should like I don't know.

直接给我们钱来做这件事。

Just give us money to do it.

我不喜欢像其他每一个YouTuber那样，靠YouTube的广告收入过活。

I don't like like, we'll make the YouTube money that every other you every every other YouTuber makes.

我跟其他教育类创作者也这么说。

And I I'm saying this to other educational creators too.

我希望他们也能听到这些话。

Like I like I want them to hear this as well.

有人应该给你钱。

Somebody should be giving you money.

应该有赞助支持。

There should be patronage.

现在是2026年了。

It's the year 2026.

不是收入不平等，而是财富不平等，已经到了镀金时代级别的荒谬程度。

Income inequality, not income inequality, wealth inequality is like gilded age level crap going on.

有些人，你知道的，他们很早就加入了OpenAI或者Meta。

There's people, you know, they're they're like, they they were early at OpenAI or they were early at Meta.

像他们这样的人很多，而且他们拥有的太多了。

Like, they like, there's a lot of them and and they have too much.

这太荒谬了。

It's ridiculous.

有时候他们会跟我说，他们也不知道该怎么最大化地运用这些财富。

And and sometimes they will say to me, they will say, I just don't know how to deploy it in a way that's maximal.

我跟他说，先生，钱现在就在你的银行账户里闲着。

I'm like, sir, it's in your bank account right now doing zilch.

所以我觉得，让我来帮你搞定这件事吧。

So I feel like just let me figure it out for you.

这就是我一点一点的感受。

And that's a little bit how I feel.

我觉得，YouTube 为某种类型的内容创造了一个相当健康的经济生态。

I'm like, YouTube has created a pretty healthy economic ecosystem for a certain kind of content.

这可不是《权力的游戏》。

It's not Game of Thrones.

也不是《罗杰斯先生》那样的节目，但某种类型的内容正在蓬勃发展。

It's not Mister Rogers, but a certain kind of content is thriving.

我认识很多YouTuber，他们都是专业人士，经营着非常棒的小企业，他们以各种方式向经济注入了大量资金。

I know a lot of YouTubers who are professionals and they have small businesses that are really great, and they've they've slapped a lot of money into the economy one way or the other.

其中很多都流向了创意专业人士，这成了某种全新的事物，有点奇怪，但我认为这是好事。

A lot of that has gone to like creative professionals and it's like a new thing to be and it's weird and I think that it's good.

我觉得它们本可以以更糟糕的方式完成。

Like I think that they could have been done in a way that was worse.

我觉得它们本可以以更好的方式完成。

I think it could have been done in a way that was better.

但我也觉得，现在是2026年了，钱正在流向一些奇怪的地方。

But I also think that like it's 2026 and like money is going to weird places.

而且说实话，我真心希望更多人能效仿我们的做法。

And I I think I would like honestly for more people to follow our lead here.

如果你的内容是社会公益，你不可能成为亿万富翁。

And if your content is a social good, you're not gonna be a billionaire.

所以你还不如找份好工作。

So you might as well have like a good job.

所以，也许你该做的就是去当个慈善机构。

And so like, maybe the thing you should do is like be a charity.

如果你擅长这件事，真的在创造价值，就别只是为了做点东西、却没人关注而去当个慈善机构。

Like, if you're good at it, if you're actually delivering value, don't be a charity just so that you can like make stuff and it's not like getting any reach or anything.

比如，去找找像我这样的人，给予支持；而且你也不必非得去看他们的Patreon页面，心想：‘他们每月要50美元，那我就给50美元吧。’

Like, look around for people like like me and support and also, you don't have to like look at their Patreon and going, well they are asking for $50 a month, I'll give them $50 a month.

你可以给他们发封邮件，说：‘我想给你5万美元，赶紧把钱从你的银行账户转出来。’

You can send them an email and be like, I'd like to give you $50,000 Get the money out of your bank account.

我说这话是作为

I say this as a

一个这么做的富人，而且我已经捐出了我大部分的净资产，对吧？

rich person who does this, and who just gave away, you know, most of my net worth, Right?

这就是变成慈善机构的意思。

Like that's what turning into a charity is.

我本可以把这个公司卖个高价，但我没有。

I could have sold this company for a lot of money, and I didn't.

因为对我来说，影响力更重要。

And that's because like the impact matters more to me.

而且为了澄清一下，我也完全没问题。

And like that like and and also for clarity, I'm also fine.

我刚卖了另一家公司，现在情况不错。

Like I've got I've sold another company and like things are good.

所以，我不认为……我觉得人们在这件事上应该谨慎，但如果……是的，就是这样。

So so I I don't think that like, I think that people should be careful about this if if they but, yeah, like, that to get yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

是的。

Yeah.

但问题是，存在大量自由流动的、类似内疚式赞助的资金。

But the idea that there's just a lot of free floating sort of, like, guilty patronage money.

对。

Yeah.

你可以随意进入科学内容领域，这非常有力量。

You can wander into science content is very powerful.

绝佳的商业模式。

Great business model.

告诉我，这个是怎么运作的？

Tell me, like, how how does this work?

你是说，我要

You're like, I'm gonna

总之，总之，我要找我兄弟。

Anyway, anyway, gonna my brother.

如果你有很多钱，这是我的邮箱地址。

If you have a bunch of money, here's my email address.

是的。

Yeah.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我是说做一家非营利组织。

I meant being a nonprofit.

你是说，我要给约翰打电话。

You're like, I'm gonna call John.

我们要成为一家非营利组织。

We're gonna be a nonprofit.

我要给律师打电话。

I'm gonna call the lawyer.

他们会寄过来，等等，你签了吗？

They're gonna send was it did you esign it away?

你必须得有仪式吗？

Did you have to was there a ceremony?

你点过火炬吗？

Did you light a torch?

我是说，这到底是怎么运作的？

Like, how did how does it work?

奇怪的是，我确实打印并签了文件，但电子签名后又签了一份，只是因为我想要一份纸质副本。

The crazy thing is that I I did print out and sign the paperwork, but after I e signed it, just because I wanted to have a copy.

非常好。

Very good.

所以我觉得，每当发生这样的大事时，都应该有一些实际的象征形式。

So I feel like I should, every time a big thing happens like that there should be some physical manifestation of it.

正如你可能想象的，这真的非常律师化。

As you might imagine, it's really lawyer y.

关于律师那一套，我知道的一点是，我不需要太在意。

And one thing I know about lawyer y stuff is I don't need to pay that much attention.

所以当时有很多类似的情况：如果我们这样处理，就会出现X。

So like, there was a lot of like, if we do it this way, then X.

如果我们这样处理，就会出现Y。

If we do it this way, then Y.

如果我们这样处理，就会出现Z。

If we do it this way, then Z.

我当时就说，你们到底想要哪个？X、Y，还是Z？

And I was like, which do you want X, Y, or Z?

而不是问：你们是想这样处理、那样处理，还是另一种方式？

Rather than do you want to do it this way, this way, or this way?

这有点像以结果为导向的。

It was sort of like outcome based.

所以，我们对此进行了讨论，还得找一位律师，结果发现做这种事的人不多，而且很多人通常的做法都涉及逃税。

And so that and like we talked through it, and we had to find a lawyer who it turns out there's not a lot of people who do this, and also people often do it in ways that are about tax evasion.

是的。

And Yeah.

所以，关键是要搞清楚如何做，才能让国税局不会怀疑：你们这是在逃税吗？

So the the, you know, the figuring that out to do it in a way where the IRS wouldn't be like, are you doing tax evasion?

这很重要，但过程看起来很慢。

Was important, but and it seems slow.

我觉得自从我们做出这个决定已经过去一年了，但最终还是找到了懂行、有相关经验的律师。

Like, I think it's been a year since we made this decision, but ultimately was about finding the right lawyers who knew how things worked and had done this before.

所以你们执行了这个决定。

So you execute this decision.

我得问一下，我是说，我总会问每个人是怎么做决定的。

I gotta ask, I mean, I ask everybody how to make decisions.

你们决定成为非营利组织的依据是什么？

What was your framework for saying we're gonna be a nonprofit?

是什么促使你们做出这个决定的？

What what what led you to this decision?

最关键的是，这会对员工产生什么影响？

The big thing was how is this gonna affect staff?

这会对内容产生什么影响？

How is this going to affect content?

我们该怎么传达这个决定呢？

How will this, like, like we, like, will we communicate this too?

这会让人们觉得合理吗？

Like, like, does it, will this make sense to people?

他们会不会觉得失去了什么？

And also will they feel like they're losing something?

所以在Complexly，我们有一个相当完善的利润分享机制。

So, you know, at Complexly, we have a pretty robust profit sharing system.

我们一直认为，如果公司被收购，这一点会在收购中体现出来，尽管我们没有股权，但会有一个类似于利润分配的份额发放给员工。

We've always said that if we're acquired, that will be then reflected in the acquisition, even though we don't, we don't have equity, but there would be as like a sort of similar share that as our profit distribution that would go out.

那么，这会不会让人觉得是一种损失呢？

And so was is that something that would feel like a loss to people?

有没有办法可以补偿人们这种损失？

Is there a way it would compensate people for that loss?

因为就像股权不再属于我和约翰一样，我们永远无法出售公司，人们也永远不会因为这次出售而获得巨额收益。

Because in the same way that like the equity is no longer me and John's, in the same way we can never sell and people will never get like a big windfall because of that sale.

最终我发现，公司里并没有多少人坐在那里，期待着某一天会发生这种事。

And ultimately it turned out that I had not very many people at the company were like sitting back waiting, thinking that that was gonna happen someday.

这并不是典型的科技创业公司氛围，因为我们是一家媒体公司。

It's not really a tech startup vibe because it's a media company.

特别是教育类媒体。

It's educational media in particular.

而且我们还对内容设定了很多限制。

And also we had placed a lot of constraints on the content.

所以我认为，当人们把我们视为收购目标时，他们会说：‘你们不会把任何内容设为付费墙吧？’

So I I think, you know, when people look at us as an acquisition target, they they were like, oh, you won't put any of it behind a paywall?

如果我们制作新内容呢？

What if we made new stuff?

他们说：‘那也不行。’

And they're like, no, not that either.

他们说：‘那我们其实也不想要你们了。’

And they're like, we don't really want you then.

但你知道，他们想要的东西，这确实限制了我们的价值。

But, you know, wanted things, but that was a real limitation on the value.

所以这就是一个问题。

So there's that.

然后，我们还有哪些不同的发展方向呢？

And then there was what are the different ways you can go here?

所以，说实话，我们确实和一些想收购我们的人见了面，只是为了摸清情况，但最终决定这不是我们想探索的路径。

And so we did, I'll be honest, like, took meetings with people who wanted to buy us just to, like, get a leg of the land, and, you know, ultimately decided that that was not a path we wanted to explore.

我们还研究过一些奇怪的所有权结构，比如员工持股是否可行。

And and and we also looked at, like, other weird ownership structures, whether, like, employee ownership was a thing that we could try.

但似乎有太多迹象表明，这件事真正应该做的是非营利组织。

And it just seemed like there was too there was too many signals that, like, actually the thing that this thing should be as a nonprofit organization.

能举一些这些迹象的例子吗？

Give me an example of some of those signals.

比如

Like

哦，我的意思是，是的。

Oh, I mean, yeah.

这样会让它更明确。

It will make it yeah.

这并不复杂。

It's not complicated.

我们一直给人们提供捐款的机会，而他们也都接受了。

Like, we we kept offering people chances to give us money, and they took them.

你知道的吧？

You know?

即使他们知道他们是在给一家营利性公司捐钱，他们也会说，哦，是的。

Like, even though they knew they were giving money to a for profit corporation, they would be like, oh, yeah.

我们希望你们制作《崩溃课程》。

We want you to make Crash Course.

我们认为它真的很好。

We think it's really good.

我们为《崩溃课程》做筹款，你知道，我们一直把这笔钱留在《崩溃课程》内部，而且，你知道，我和约翰十多年都没拿过利润分配，但这些钱也根本不会落到我们手里，等等。

And we do a fundraiser for crash course, and, you know, we kept we keep that money internally connected to crash course, and we don't you know, John and I haven't taken profit distributions in over a decade, but that that money doesn't end up coming to us, etcetera.

所以我们做这些内部筹款，每年它们都变得越来越大。

And so we do these internal fundraisers, and every year they kept getting bigger.

所以这是一个很重要的因素。

So that's a big one.

我们还从通常只资助非营利组织的资助机构获得资金，但他们却愿意给我们钱，因为他们觉得：嗯，其实没有别的办法能接触到我们想接触的那些人，所以我们决定破例给你们资助。

We also get money from from granting organizations that usually only give to nonprofits, but they were giving to us because they were like, well, there's not not really any other way to reach the kind of people that we wanna reach, and so we're gonna give money to you even though we tend to not do that.

他们给了我们信号，说如果我们成为非营利组织，他们会给我们更多资金。

And and and they were giving us signals that they'd give us more if if we were a nonprofit.

钱是存在的。

The money's out there.

这个的核心主题就是，钱是存在的。

The the real theme of this is the money the money is out there.

只要你能抓住它就行。

If only if only you can catch it.

现在Complexly公司有多少人？

How many people is Complexly now?

我希望我能确切知道。

I wish I knew exactly.

我已经好几年没当CEO了，否则我就能给出确切数字，但肯定超过70人。

So I have not been the CEO in a couple years, I would have that exact number, but it's definitely over 70.

那通常是怎么组织的？

And how is that generally structured?

所以我们最近做了一次重组。之前我们的节目是各自为政的，比如《崩溃课程》有自己的美术部门、编辑部门和制作部门，而现在我们正在向更整合的方向发展，不过这还没完全完成。

So we have recently done a restructure actually, that so previously we were show siloed, and so we'd, you know, have have Crash Course would have its own graphics department, and its own editorial department, and its own production department, and now we have more, This this is not entirely done yet.

也许有些部门还是会保留独立性，我不太确定。

May, you know, there's some silos will continue to exist, maybe, I'm not sure.

现在我们有了一个艺术部门，为所有节目提供美术支持。

That there, that that like now we have like an art department that does art across all of the shows.

我认为不同制作环节之间的协作更加开放了，这样人们就不会永远只固定在一个节目上，尤其是《SciShow》，它几乎每周七天都在制作。

And I think that, you know, the sort of flow between different areas of production is more open so that people aren't always on one show forever and ever, which can kind of you know, SciShow in particular can be which is basically seven days a week.

我觉得每周工作五到七天，视情况而定，真的会很累，你知道吧？

I think that five, seven, something like that, depending on the week is can be just kind of a grind, you know?

我们并没有那种可以连续休两个月的季播模式。

And it's not like we have seasons where we take two months off.

我们只是在圣诞节期间休两周假。

Like, we take two weeks off at Christmas.

所以，这样能让我们的工作流程更顺畅一些。

So that, you know, getting getting a little more flow around.

然后，是的，我们有一位首席发展官，负责资金事务， oversees 品牌合作、资助，同时还负责众筹部分。

And then, yeah, we've got we've got a chief development officer who is in charge of money, who for oversees both brand deals and, like, grants and and also has a a crowdfunding component to it.

我们有一个很小的市场部门，同时也负责周边商品。

We've got marketing, little mark a little tiny marketing department that also does merch.

所以，这就是市场部门的规模了。

So, like, that's how that has that's how big the marketing department is.

它就像是公司市场端的产品部分。

It's it's like with the marketing end product part of the company.

我们有艺术部门、制作部门和编辑部门。

And we so we've got art, and then we've got production, and then we've got editorial.

你曾经是首席执行官。

You were the CEO.

我记得你上次上节目时，还是首席执行官。

I think the last time you were you were on the show, you were the CEO.

然后你把自己从那个位置上撤了下来，转而担任一个更模糊的角色——汉克·格林。

Then you sort of, like, kicked yourself out of that chair and into more of a nebulous role of Hank Green.

你知道具体的细节吗？不知道。

Do you know the the specifics No.

关于那件事。

Of that

那是什么？

What's that?

我因为得了癌症并接受治疗，被踢出了那个位置，当时我想，得有个人在我治疗期间当CEO。

I got I got kicked off of that by by getting cancer and then getting in cancer treatment, and I was like, somebody's gonna have to be the CEO while I do this.

所以一开始的几周，我哥哥接任了，这绝对不是他想做的事，但他做得非常好。

So first for like a couple of weeks, my brother took over, is desperately not something he wanted to do, but he did a great job.

后来我们的首席运营官接替了那个职位，我一开始对是否要回来还犹豫不决，但后来我看到朱莉干得那么出色。

And then eventually our COO moved into that position, and I was like very on the fence at first about whether I would come back in, and then I like saw how great Julie was doing.

而且我也发现自己其实很享受不用做这些工作的感觉。

And and also how much I enjoyed not doing the work.

让你

And Making your

让副手当你的老板，这绝对是史上最棒的决定。

first deputy your boss is the greatest move of all time.

这就是原因。

That's why

你差点就撑不住了。

you hit the verge.

这就像。

It's like

是的。

Yeah.

我无比推荐。

Can't recommend it enough.

每个人都应该至少尝试一次。

It's it everyone should do it at least once.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

去体验一下吧。

Like, go have that experience.

就像意大利那样，让你最好的员工当你的老板。

It's like Italy, make your best employee your boss.

这些才是正确的做法。

Like, those are the moves.

没错，没错，所以朱莉·史密斯现在是首席执行官了。

They're right they're right on the So Julie Smith is the CEO now.

当你成为非营利组织后，她还是这家慈善机构的首席执行官吗？

When you become a nonprofit, is she still the CEO of the the charity?

这到底是怎么运作的？

How does that work?

是的。

Yeah.

她确实还在担任首席执行官。

She's she is I think that she stays on as the CEO.

所以有时非营利组织会设执行董事而不是首席执行官。

So sometimes the nonprofit has an executive director rather than a CEO.

这是同一个职位。

This is the same job.

所以，是的，她仍然是首席执行官。

So, yeah, she's still CEO.

好的。

Okay.

然后在视频中

And then in the video

她向董事会汇报，而我们正在组建一个董事会，这很有趣。

She reports to the board, and then we're making up a board, which is fun.

谁会加入你们的

Who's gonna be on your

目前规模很小。

It's very small right now.

我有一堆候选人，列了个名单。

I've got a bunch I've got a list of candidates.

你想加入吗？

Do you want on?

当然。

Sure.

让我看看。

Let's see.

我不知道该怎么当董事会成员。

I I don't know how to be on a board.

我不确定这会不会很有帮助。

I I don't if that'd be very helpful.

我想问一下，YouTube是邪恶的吗？

I'd like, is is YouTube evil?

每次董事会会议都这样吗？

Like, in every board meeting?

但没错。

But yeah.

我的意思是，我会提供帮助。

Like I mean, I I'll be helpful.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

比如那个在媒体界从不发布YouTube视频的人。

Like, the one guy in media who won't post YouTube videos.

是的。

Yeah.

所以就是我、朱莉，还有在TED的洛根·斯梅利。

So it's it's me, and it is Julie, and it's Logan Smalley who is at TED.

他创建了TED Ed，这是一个非常受欢迎的基于TED的YouTube频道，他们会把一些简短的TED演讲制作成动画形式的精彩、有趣且富有信息量的内容。

He he created Ted Ed, which is a very popular TED based YouTube channel, where they they take little TED talks and they make them into really, like, usually animated, great, fun, informative pieces of content.

我们和Logan一直是朋友。

And we've been friends with Logan forever.

所以我们找他是因为我们觉得需要三个人。

So so we sort of, like, had him because we were like, we need three.

所以我感觉他会很容易答应。

So so I I had a feeling it would be an easy yes.

我们正在四处物色人选。

And we're looking around.

我们在寻找那些懂媒体、懂教育、懂领导力和管理，并且有富人资源的人。

We're looking for people who understand media, who understand education, who understand leadership and and management, and people who have contacts with rich people.

所以我们想要的氛围就是这样，而且有很多优秀的人选。

So that that's the the vibe we're going for, and there's there's a lot of cool people.

你们希望这个董事会有多大？

How big do you want that board to be?

它将是五人或七人。

It will either be five or seven.

所以当你做这个决定，去找朱莉，然后说：‘哦，原来你是这家我拥有的公司的CEO。’

So when you, like, make this decision and you you you go to Julie and you're like, oh, so you're the CEO of the company I own.

我刚签了DocuSign。

I've just done a DocuSign.

我不再拥有任何股份了。

I no longer own any of it.

你是想说，这到底是怎么运作的？

It's a do you wanna be like, how does that work?

她到底在其中参与了多少？

How is she how how involved was she in

这个过程？

the mix?

我的意思是，每一个对话环节她都参与了。

Oh, I mean, for the every piece of the conversation.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得朱莉比约翰参与得更多。

I think that Julie was more involved than John.

我的意思是，朱莉确实参与了很多。

I mean, Julie, she definitely was.

但在决策过程中，你知道，最终当然约翰和我都有权按下停止键，但感觉就像是约翰的手和朱莉的手都握在上面。

But but even in the decision making process, you know, ultimately, of course, John and I had the ability to pull on the cord, but it was kind of like John's hand had me and Julie's hand on it.

你懂的？

You know?

他总是说，你们觉得怎么做对就怎么做。

He was like, whatever you guys think is the right

事情该这么做。

thing to do.

你说得对。

You're right

到头来还是得由你来按下按钮，格雷厄姆。

there to push the button, Graham.

是的。

Yeah.

这很有趣。

It's funny.

就像从它成形的那天起，当时我们确实不确定这是否可能，你知道的，不同的律师给我们不同的说法。

Like like from the day that it made it, when it was definitely so there was a moment where we weren't sure it was possible, you know, like different lawyers telling us different things.

而且曾经有一段时间，我们以为这会花很多钱，不只是因为我们捐出公司价值会导致净资产减少，而是真的会很贵。

And and like the there was there was a time when we thought it might cost a bunch of money, not just like like we would have less net worth because we give away the value of the company, but like that it would be expensive.

不只是律师费用，还可能涉及某种税务后果。

And not just like lawyer costs, but some kind of like tax consequence.

我不明白。

I don't understand.

所以在某个时刻，但一旦我们清楚能够做到这一点，事情就变得越来越明朗了。

And so there was a moment like that when but but once it became clear that we could do it, the it just kept being more and more clear.

而且直到今天，仍然会有一些事情发生，让我忍不住说：‘哦，对啊。’

And, like, to this day, like, things will keep happening where I'm like, oh, yeah.

我们本该早点做这件事的。

We should've done this.

这是正确的决定。

This was the right this was the right call.

我们得再休息一下。

We have to take another quick break.

马上回来。

We'll be back in just a minute.

本节目由Rippling赞助。

Support for the show comes from Rippling.

没人喜欢用一堆分散的工具来完成简单任务。

No one likes running a bunch of disconnected tools to do simple tasks.

公司的所有一体化平台理应能真正完成所有工作。

Your company's all in one platforms should be actually able to do it all.

Rippling声称他们能做到一切。

Well, Rippling says they can do it all.

这是一个用于全球人力资源、薪资、IT和财务的统一平台。

It's the unified platform for global HR, payroll, IT, and finance.

使用Rippling，原本需要在多个工具和部门之间来回传递的工作流程，现在都能在一个地方自动完成。

With Rippling, workflows that normally bounce across various tools and departments all just happen in one place automatically.

假设一名员工获得晋升或调岗。

Say an employee gets promoted or moves.

Rippling可以在一个地方自动更新薪资税务、发放新的应用权限、寄送新笔记本电脑、发放公司信用卡，并指派所需的管理者培训。

Rippling can update payroll taxes, hand out new app permissions, ship a new laptop, issue a new corporate card, and assign required manager training all in one place.

使用Rippling，你可以将整个HR、IT和财务运营整合为一个系统，也可以根据需要选择最适合填补你软件栈缺口的产品。

With Rippling, you can run your entire HR, IT, and finance operations as one, or pick and choose the products that best fill the gap in your software stack.

所以，如果你或你的公司希望以员工为中心，在一个统一平台上运行业务的核心流程，请前往rippling.com/decoder立即注册。

So if you or your company wanna run the backbone of your business on one unified platform with people at the center, head to rippling.com/decoder and sign up today.

要注册，请访问rippling.com/decoder。

That's rippling.com/decoder to sign up.

在数百万份与杰弗里·爱泼斯坦案件相关的文件公布后，那些富人和名人终于开始感受到压力。

In the wake of the release of millions of documents related to the Jeffrey Epstein case, the rich and famous are finally feeling some pain.

但即使企业高管纷纷辞职，前安德鲁王子也在英国被捕，问题依然存在：当几乎所有人都知道他在做什么时，杰弗里·爱泼斯坦是如何在数十年间一直作为精英圈的活跃成员的？

But even with corporate resignations here and with former prince Andrew being arrested in The UK, the question remains, how did Jeffrey Epstein remain a thriving member of the elite for decades when everyone seemed to know what he was up to?

我认为，如果你和杰弗里·爱泼斯坦是朋友，而他的惯用手法明显是与未成年少女发生性关系，即使特朗普曾说他偏好‘更年轻的’女孩，你也不可能不知道他的手段。

I don't think you could be friends with Jeffrey Epstein whose MO was obviously having sex with young girls, even as Trump said, on the younger side and not know his MO.

揭开爱泼斯坦阴谋的真相。

Untangling the Epstein conspiracy.

这就是本周《今日解析》的内容，工作日每日更新，现在周六也更新了。

That's this week on Today Explained, every weekday and now on Saturdays.

本节目由领英广告赞助。

Support for this show comes from LinkedIn ads.

有时，即使是最强大的B2B营销，也可能面向了错误的受众。

Sometimes even the strongest b to b marketing ends up in front of the wrong audience.

如果有人看到高端厨具广告，却连方便面都煮不好，那就说明你的策略需要重新调整了。

If someone's seeing ads for high end cookware but can barely make instant ramen, that's a sign your strategy needs a reset.

所以，当你准备触达正确的专业人士时，应该去看看领英广告。

So when you're ready to reach the right professionals, you should check out LinkedIn Ads.

LinkedIn 已发展成为拥有超过10亿专业人士的网络，其中包括1.3亿决策者。

LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1,000,000,000 professionals, including 130,000,000 decision makers.

这正是它与其他广告投放方式的不同之处。

And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys.

你可以根据职位、行业、公司、角色、资历、技能和公司收入来精准定位你的买家，从而避免在错误的受众身上浪费预算。

You could target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, and company revenue so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience.

这就是为什么LinkedIn广告在所有主要广告网络中拥有最高的B2B广告支出回报率。

It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest b to b return on ad spend of all major ad networks.

真的，所有平台都比不上。

Seriously, all of them.

如果B2B

If b to b

增长是目标，那么LinkedIn广告是将你的信息传递给真正能拍板的人的最高效方式之一。

growth is the goal, LinkedIn ads is one of the most efficient ways to put your message in front of the people who can actually say yes.

在LinkedIn广告上为你的首个广告活动投入250美元，即可获得下一次广告活动250美元的抵扣额度。

Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a $250 credit for the next one.

直接访问 linkedin.com/decoder。

Just go to linkedin.com/decoder.

就是 linkedin.com/decoder。

That's linkedin.com/decoder.

条款和条件适用。

Terms and conditions apply.

当你超越头条新闻，关注趋势走向时，真正重要的是什么？

When you look beyond the headlines at the trend lines, what is really going to matter?

即使你并不担心人工智能本身，你也肯定应该担忧：我们现在是否有足够的文化力量和韧性来正确应对它？

Even if you're not worried about AI per se, you certainly ought to be concerned, do we have the cultural strength and resilience to get it right now?

假设我们现在要起草一部新的宪法，先撇开人工智能不谈。

Imagine we had to write a new constitution today, put aside AI.

你觉得我们能做好吗？

Like, how good a job do you think we would do?

我是约翰·费纳。

I'm John Feiner.

我是杰克·沙利文。

And I'm Jake Sullivan.

我们是《长远博弈》的主持人，这是一档每周播出的国家安全播客。

And we're the hosts of The Long Game, a weekly national security podcast.

本周，我们邀请到了经济学家兼作家泰勒·科文。

This week, we're joined by economist and author Tyler Cowen.

我们讨论了中国、人工智能竞赛和外星人。

We discuss China, the AI race, and aliens.

本期节目现已上线。

The episode's out now.

在您收听播客的平台搜索并关注《长远博弈》。

Search for and follow the long game wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

我正在和汉克·格林讨论真正的Decoder内容和结构。

I'm talking with Hank Green about the real Decoder stuff, structure.

有一个结构，你现在就身处其中，这是一个慈善机构，人们可以向它捐款。

There's a structure and you you're in it now and it's a charity and people can donate it to it.

他们可以将捐赠给Complexly的款项作为税务抵扣。

They can write off the donations that they make to Complexly.

很多富人一直在寻找这类税务抵扣的机会。

A lot of people a lot of rich people are always in the market for tax write offs of this kind.

所以你就像是进入了另一个不同的领域。

So like you're like you're just like in a different zone.

对吧？

Right?

就像……

Like

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

不过，如果你身处捐赠者建议基金的世界，那种你懂的、心照不宣的情况。

Though if you got if you got if you're in the donor advised fund world, which if you know, you know kind of thing.

我们还没接入那些DAF公司系统。

We we're not inside of the the DAF companies yet.

更新需要一点时间。

It takes a little while to update.

所以我收到很多邮件，问为什么我不能从我的DAF捐款？

So I'm like, I've gotten a bunch of emails that like, why can't I get from my DAF?

我就说，因为我们在一个月前才做了这个调整。

I'm like, well, because we did this a month ago.

我不太清楚。

I don't know.

这需要一点时间。

It takes a little while.

对。

Right.

但你属于一类可以补贴公司或向公司捐赠的人，他们有动力这么做，因为他们需要实现亏损抵扣，这背后有一整套机制。

But you're you're just in a class of of people who can subsidize the company or give to the company and that they have incentive to do it because they need to harvest losses to reduce their like, there's a whole thing

你需要这样，对吧？

you need Right?

这挺有意思的。

It's it's it's interesting.

有一种感觉，我认为这正是我们作为人的运作方式。

There's kind of a sense, and I think that this is just how we work as people.

但人们会觉得，哦，如果有人在捐赠的话。

But there's a sense that like, oh, if people are giving away.

如果富人正在捐钱，那是因为他们从中获得了某种好处。

If rich people are giving away money, was because they get some kind of benefit from it.

为明确一点，他们在捐出钱时并不会获得更多钱。

And just for clarity, they don't get more money when they give money away.

你的意思是，他们之所以能捐出更多钱，是因为这些捐赠是免税的。

You know, like they just are able to give away more money because they're tax deductible.

所以，如果我捐出5万美元，而我的税率是30%，那么我实际上可以像原本那样捐出3.8万美元，或者我算不清楚了。

So like if, if I give away $50,000 and I'm paying a 30% tax rate, then I get to then then like I otherwise would have been able to give, you know, dollars 38,000 or I can't do the math.

这样我就能捐出更多，而这些钱不会进入政府手中，当然，你可以质疑我们是否应该让个人决定那些原本要交给政府的钱该流向哪里。

And this way I can give more without that money going to the government, which is, you know, you can question that whether like we should like let people decide where money that would otherwise be going to the government goes.

我知道一位亿万富翁，他明确表示：我不会对我的慈善捐赠申请税收减免，因为我认为我不该做这个决定。

I know, I actually know a billionaire who is like, I will not take tax deductions on my charitable contributions because I don't think that I should decide.

这太疯狂了。

This is crazy.

他很有钱，但我认为我不该决定我的税款是否该交给政府。

He has plenty of money, But I don't think that I I should decide whether or not my tax dollars go to the government.

我认为政府应该决定我的税款该如何使用，这是一种很有趣的观点，但大多数人并不是这样想的，是这样吗？

I think that the government should decide what to do with my tax dollars, and that's a fascinating way of looking at it, but that's not how much people Is this

这个人是欧洲人吗？

person European?

因为我不清楚

Because I don't know

不。

No.

他是美国人，你知道他是谁。

Is he is American, and you know who he is.

而且，是的。

And, like yeah.

而且他非常美国化。

And and he's very American.

他简直就是最典型的美国人。

He's, like, the the most American of them.

而且他并不是喜欢美国。

And and not he, like, likes America.

我们终于要制作一个爆款TikTok视频了，就是让大家猜这个人是谁。

We're finally gonna do, like, a a viral TikTok clip, and it's just gonna be people trying to guess who this person is.

是谁是谁

Who's who's

就是那个你听说过的亿万富翁？

the billionaire that you've heard of?

有多美国范儿

Who's so American

他们真的不只是喜欢美国，还支持政府。

that they're like actually likes not just who who likes America and is, like, kind of in favor of government.

是的。

Yeah.

太让人困惑了。

Very confusing.

所以我才这么混乱。

So I'm confusing.

你们公司的结构现在可以接受这种新的收入来源了，对吧？来自那些想给你们钱的亿万富翁。

You're in the you're you the the structure of the company can now accept this new income stream, right, from billionaires who who wanna give you the money.

这让你进入了

That takes you into

一个经济体。

an economy.

主要是那些拥有大约一千万美元的人。

It's mostly people who have like $10,000,000.

当然。

Sure.

但这就像是打开了一扇新门。

But it's all like that's it's a a new door has opened.

对吧？

Right?

因为你们有了这样的结构，建立了激励机制，所以你们不再只是在各个方向上疯狂追求增长。

There's there's a new line of revenue for the company because you have the structure, you've created the incentives so that you're not just rapaciously chasing growth at all all ends.

对吧？

Right?

你们并没有在做‘地球是平的’这种事。

You're not doing is the earth flat?

就像在YouTube上赚钱的一种方式。

Like, which is a thing you can do on YouTube to make a lot of money.

这是在每个平台上都能做的事情。

It's a thing you can do on every platform.

老实说，你应该去做。

Honestly, should probably do it.

我应该拍一个‘地球是平的’的视频，然后列出所有理由，我有个AI研究员告诉我，他们没法让AI相信地球是平的，这居然让我感觉不错？

I and and I should make an is the earth flat and I should just be like, here's all the reasons why we can I had AI researcher tell me that they can't convince AI that the earth is flat, and I was like, that actually made me feel good?

是的。

Yeah.

这是我听过的最早的例子之一。

It's one of the first I ever heard.

我们现在应该结束了。

We should shut it down now.

不再需要数据中心了。

No more data centers needed.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，我接触AI是因为我正在把这些都讲出来——你有了一个新的收入来源，这改变了你的激励机制，也改变了你所谓的为谁工作，对吧？

Actually, I come to AI, because the reason I'm I'm just laying this all out, you have a new you have a new source of revenue that changes your incentives, it changes who you are quote unquote working for, right?

是那些希望看到这项技术在世界上发挥作用的人。

It's those people who wanna see this work in the world.

你仍然认为你需要在平台上获得关注，因为你希望产生影响，而紧邻这一点的，是成群结队愿意免费工作的Instagram青少年，以及这些平台自身正在制造的海量低质内容洪流。

You still have this idea that you need to go get reach on the platforms because you wanna have impact, and right next to that is like not only the army of Instagram teens who will work for free, but the enormous tidal wave of slop that these platforms are creating themselves.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

比如，YouTube昨天在Shorts上推出了歌曲功能。

Like YouTube launched songs on YouTube shorts yesterday.

我看到一个片段，是他们用我采访Ring公司创始人兼CEO的素材，制作了一首关于监控狗狗的歌。

Watched a clip of my own interview with the founder and CEO of Ring and YouTube just made a song about like surveilling dogs.

我按了一下按钮，然后就出现了一首关于监控狗狗的歌，接着我就能直接发布到YouTube上。

Like I pushed a button and then there was a song about surveilling dogs and then I could just publish it to YouTube.

我还在情绪上消化这段经历。

And I've I'm still emotionally processing this experience.

对吧？

Right?

我不知道刚刚在我身上发生了什么。

Like I don't know what just happened to me.

我不知道自己现在算什么样的创作者了。

I don't know what kind of creator I am anymore.

我知道那首关于监控狗狗的歌确实挺火的。

And I know that that song about surveilling dogs is kinda hot.

各种情绪一下子全涌上来了。

Like a lot of feelings all at once.

你怎么看这件事？

How do you think about that?

对吧？

Right?

如果你想产生这样的影响力，而现在你有了一定的缓冲，既摆脱了资本主义的激励，也摆脱了赚钱的必要性，因为出现了一个新的捐赠者群体，那你怎么看待接下来我们必须去对抗老虎机这个问题？

If you wanna have all this impact and now you have a little bit of insulation both from the incentives of capitalism and from the need to make money because there's a new donor class unlocked, How do you think about, okay, now we gotta go fight the slot machine?

我们必须与现有的东西竞争。

We have to compete with what exists.

我对自己并不太担心。

I find myself not that worried about it.

不是担心老虎机。

Not about the slot.

我是担心人工智能。

Like, I'm worried about AI.

我对人工智能在很多方面都感到担忧。

I'm worried about AI in a bunch of, you know, a bunch of different ways.

我最担心人工智能的是，每次人工智能出现重大进展时，都没人预料到它会发生。

So, like, the biggest thing I'm worried about AI is that every time something big happens with AI, no one had no one thought that it was going to happen.

就像，大家都以为我们会爱上AI，但没人料到它会对你好到让你发疯。

Like like, everybody thought we were gonna fall in love with AI, but nobody thought that it was gonna, like, be so nice to you that you'd go crazy.

你知道的。

You know?

没人预测到AI精神病，那种由谄媚引发的精神病。

Like nobody predicted AI psychosis, like sychophancy induced psychosis.

这种情况一直在发生。

That keeps happening.

所以我认为，我们关注的是一些错误的问题。

And so I think that, like, we're we're focused on the wrong problems.

因此，我最担心的是，AI会以一种我们无法预测的方式变糟，而这正是社交媒体曾经做过的事。

And so the thing that I'm mostly worried about is that it's gonna be bad in a way that we don't predict, which is exactly what the social Internet did.

所以是的。

So Yeah.

那不会让人惊讶，但无论发生什么，都会出人意料。

That that won't be a surprise, but whatever it is will be surprising.

所以我担心的是社会。

So I'm worried about society.

我从另一个角度来思考这个问题。

I here's what I think coming into it from the side.

为什么会有这么多垃圾内容？

What why is slop slop?

我认为这是因为制作起来太容易了。

I think it's because it's easy to make.

当我看到一个用 Lovable 制作的网站，它功能良好，我觉得这不算垃圾内容。

Like, when I look at a website that was made with with Lovable and it's like a good functional website, I don't think that's slop.

原因在于，背后有许多人为的决策和大量的辛勤工作。

And the reason is because there's a bunch of human decisions that went into it, and there's a bunch of hard work that went into it.

他们并没有花在代码行数上，而是花在了设计、想象用户界面、揣摩用户行为，以及思考如何最好地把一个想法传达进用户脑海里。

They didn't go into, like, the lines of code, but they went into the to the design and to imagining the the user interface and to imagining user behavior and to imagining, like, how to best get an idea into my head.

这是一个辅助人类创作的工具。

This was a tool used to aid human creation.