LexisNexis首席执行官表示人工智能法律时代已经到来

我们确实一直在思考这个问题，并且已经将一些措施融入到我们的产品中。

We're definitely we're definitely thinking about it, and we've we've incorporated things into our product.

你知道，我认为这只是少数律师的问题。

You know, I I think it's a small percentage of attorneys.

这些事情一旦发生总会登上头条，但我认为造成这些问题的律师只是少数。

You know, these things always make the headlines whenever one one happens, but I think it's a small percentage of attorneys that are that are causing these problems.

大多数律师都知道，从来就没有过直接拿东西就上法庭的标准。

Most of them you know, it's it's never been the standard that you just take something and bring it into court.

对吧？

Right?

作为律师，你一直有责任核查材料，确保其有效性后再提交法庭。

Like, you've always had the responsibility as a lawyer to check that material and make sure that it's valid before going into court.

有些个人并没有这样做。

And some individuals aren't doing that.

我们当然在伯克案中看到了这种情况，一些律师向法庭提交了文件。

We certainly saw that, like, in the Burke case where, you know, they you know, some attorneys submitted a document to the court.

我觉得里面大概有八个引用，其中七个完全是

I think it had, like, eight citations in it, and seven of them were just completely

但这是不可避免的。

But that was inevitable.

同意。

Agree.

就像ChatGPT出现时，我认识的一半法律评论员都说，这不可避免。

Like, the day ChatGPT showed up at, like, half of the legal pundits I know were like, it's this is inevitable.

这种结果迟早会发生。

Like, this outcome will happen.

然后它就真的发生了。

And then it it happened.

甚至连一点迟疑都没有。

Like, there wasn't even like a a stutter step.

是的。

Yeah.

它立刻就发生了。

It just happened immediately.

我想要探讨的是，解决方案仅仅是LexisNexis有一个更好的工具，然后你就该为此付费吗？

And that's what I'm I'm trying to push on is is the solution just LexisNexis has a tool that's better and you should pay for it?

还是说，当我们逐渐减少对初级律师的严谨要求时，这个行业必须建立一些新的监管机制？

Or is the solution that as we take the rigor away from the younger associates, the profession is gonna have to build some new guardrails?

是的。

Yeah.

毕竟，你永远无法阻止律师直接把事情闹上法庭，不去做他们该做的正经工作。

Well, like, you can never stop an attorney from just taking it into court, not doing their, you know, the the proper work.

对吧？

Right?

我认为这种情况还会继续发生。

I think that's gonna continue to happen.

我觉得迟早会有人因此被吊销执照。

I think somebody's gonna lose their license over this at some point.

对吧？

Right?

我们正看到制裁措施开始逐步升级。

And we're seeing the sanctions start to to ratchet up.

你知道，之前有几位律师被各罚款5000美元，然后，你知道，阿拉巴马州联邦法院的一些律师被提交给州律师协会进行纪律处分。

So, you know, it was, you know, a couple attorneys got fined $5,000 apiece, and then, you know, some attorneys in federal court down in Alabama got referred to the State Bar Association for disciplinary action.

你知道吗？

You know?

我觉得风险正在不断上升。

I think the stakes are are increasing and increasing.

在我们的系统中，如果我们有引用，我们会提供该引用的链接，你可以点击它，在我们的系统中查看。

With with our system, what we do is if we have a citation, we will provide a link to that citation so you can click on it, and you can see it in our system.

我们的系统中没有伪造的案例。

And there's no fabricated cases within our system.

我们有一个收集机制，确保系统中的每一个案例都是有效的，不会出错。

You know, we have a a collection mechanism that ensures that that every case in there is a valid case, it's jeopardized.

它提到了头注和其他律师可以使用的不同工具。

It has said note head notes and and, you know, different tools that the the lawyers can use.

因此，如果我们使用我们的系统，您可以轻松检查您提交给法庭的引文，不仅确保它们有效且法律仍然适用，还能保证格式正确。

So we're making it, like, really easy if you use our system to check to make sure that the citations that you're, you know, that you're bringing to court not not only are they valid and there's, you know, there's still good law, but they're they're in the right format.

对吧？

Right?

格式很重要。

Like, format's important.

因此，我们会检查所有这些方面，让律师能够轻松完成他们需要做的工作。

And so, you know, we we check for all these things and make it really easy for the lawyer to to do the work that they need to do.

对吧？

Right?

他们需要确保案件相关且仍然有效。

They need to make sure that case is on point, that that case is still valid.

我们需要在这里暂停一下，做个短暂的休息。

We have to pause here for a quick break.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

本节目由Vanta赞助。

Support for this show comes from Vanta.

客户信任可以成就或毁掉你的业务。

Customer trust can make or break your business.

随着你的业务增长，你的安全和合规工具也会变得越来越复杂。

And the more your business grows, the more complex your security and compliance tools get.

这可能会变得混乱，而混乱不是一种安全策略。

It can turn into chaos, and chaos isn't a security strategy.

这就是Vanta发挥作用的地方。

That's where Vanta comes in.

把Vanta想象成一位随时在线、由AI驱动的安全专家，它会随着你一起成长。

Think of Vanta as your always on AI powered security expert who scales with you.

Vanta自动处理合规性，持续监控你的控制措施，并为你提供合规性和风险的单一信息源。

Vanta automates compliance, continuously monitors your controls, and gives you a single source of truth for compliance and risk.

无论你是像 Cursor 这样快速成长的初创公司，还是像 Snowflake 这样的大型企业，Vanta 都能轻松融入你的现有工作流程，让你持续发展一家客户信赖的公司。

So whether you're a fast growing startup like Cursor or an enterprise like Snowflake, Vanta fits easily into your existing workflows so you can keep growing a company your customers can trust.

前往 vanta.com/decoder 开始使用。

Get started at vanta.com/decoder.

那就是 vanta.com/decoder。

That's vanta.com/decoder.

vanta.com/decoder。

Vanta.com/decoder.

Decoder 的支持来自 Quo。

Support for Decoder comes from Quo.

很难高估客户沟通对企业的重要性。

It's hard to overestimate how important customer communication is for a business.

快速响应可能是促成交易与错失交易之间的关键区别。

A quick response can be the difference between making a sale and not making a sale.

迅速且个性化的回应有可能为你赢得终身忠诚的客户。

A quick and personalized response can potentially win you lifelong loyalty.

Quo，拼写为 q u o，是一个企业电话系统，确保您永远不会错过与客户联系的机会。

Quo, spelled q u o, is a business phone system that makes sure you never miss an opportunity to connect with your customers.

Quo 可直接通过您手机或电脑上的应用程序使用。

QUO works right from an app on your phone or computer.

您的整个团队可以共享一个号码，像共享收件箱一样协作处理电话和短信。

Your whole team can share one number, collaborate on calls and texts like a shared inbox.

Quo 不仅仅是一个电话系统，它还是一个智能系统。

And Quo's not just a phone system, it's a smart system.

其内置的 AI 会记录通话、撰写摘要，甚至安排后续步骤。

Their built in AI logs calls, writes summaries, and even sets up next steps.

如果您无法接听电话，Quo 的 AI 代理可以筛选潜在客户、将电话转接给正确的人，并确保没有任何客户被忽视。

And if you can't answer the phone, Quo's AI agent can qualify leads, route calls to the right person, and make sure no customer is ever left hanging.

因此，从个体经营者到成长中的团队，超过 9 万家企业在使用 Quo 来保持联系并展现专业形象。

That's why over 90,000 businesses, from solo operators to growing teams, are using Quo to stay connected and look professional.

立即免费试用

Try it for free when you

前往 quo.com/decoder。

go to quo.com/decoder.

那就是 quo.com/decoder。

That's quo.com/decoder.

你甚至可以保留现有的号码。

You can even keep your existing number.

Quo。

Quo.

不错过任何来电，不错过任何客户。

No missed calls, no missed customers.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

在广告插播前，我正在与LexisNexis首席执行官肖恩·菲茨帕特里克讨论，律师们绝对不应该把他们在ChatGPT上编造的调研内容带进法庭。

Right before the break, was talking to LexisNexis CEO Sean Fitzpatrick about how lawyers really shouldn't bring the totally fabricated research they do on chat GBT into court.

这自然引出了下一个显而易见的问题。

And that led to the obvious next question.

肖恩认为AI在LexisNexis的哪些其他环节会取代人工？

What other parts of the process does Sean see AI in LexisNexis taking over?

我当律师时表现糟糕的原因之一，就是刚拿到律所工作时，突然意识到：哦，我的老板手里有一整套他常用的动议模板。

One of many reasons I was a horrible lawyer was that moment when you get your first law firm job and you realize, oh, my boss just has a library of their favorite motions on file.

他们只需要从档案库里调出这些模板，改改名字和日期，然后提交这份动议。

And they're gonna just pull they're just gonna pull from the card catalog and they're gonna change, you know, some names and dates and they're gonna file this motion.

法官也会认出这份动议和律师，这一切都只是某种奇怪的形式主义，只是为了推进到下一个阶段。

And the judge will recognize the motion and the attorney and this is all just like a weird formality get to the next stage of the process.

对吧？

Right?

也许我们永远都不会触及案件的实质部分，因为我们最终会和解，但我们仍需要提交档案库里已有的这份动议。

And maybe we'll never get to the substantive part of the case because we're just gonna settle it, but we need to file this motion we had in the library.

这真的让人非常沮丧。

This really like truly was demoralizing.

我当时就觉得，我只不过在做文书工作。

I was like, I'm just doing paperwork.

这种事根本就不是真实的，某种程度上，我描述的正是每个初级律师在拿到薪水之前都会经历的过程，没错。

Like there's nothing about this that is real, like in a in a way I'm probably describing what every first year associate goes through until the check hits and Yeah.

这真的不适合我。

I I it just didn't work for me.

你们离让Lexis AI产品直接完成这件事还有多近？

How close are you to having the Lexus AI product just do that thing?

直接识别出那个时刻，然后说：我们有存档的动议，直接提交到系统里就行。

Just recognize the moment and say we have the banked motion and we're just gonna file it to a system.

但我们的系统是互联的，你知道的，我们可以连接到文档管理系统，那里存有律师之前的动议。

Well, but we're connected, you know, we can connect into a DMS, a document management system that has an attorney's prior motions.

我们有保险库功能，他们可以把自己的动议上传进去。

We have our vault vault capability so they can load their motions up.

所以他们仍然可以使用自己已经开发好的动议。

So they can still use the motions that they that they've already developed.

对吧？

Right?

这是一种完全可行的做法，因为

And that's that's a perfectly fine way to do things because

我是说从零开始。

Well, I'm saying from from scratch.

从零开始，对。

From Right.

但没错。

But yeah.

我们也有能力从零开始创建。

We have the ability to do it from scratch too.

但很多交易员不愿意从零开始，因为他们已经仔细审阅过那份动议中的每一个字，知道它很好。

And so but a lot of traders don't wanna do it from scratch because they've reviewed every single word in that motion, and they know that it's good.

如果他们从零开始，就必须重新审阅每一个字。

And if they do it from scratch, then they have to review every single word.

对吧？

Right?

但如果他们想从头开始，我们今天就可以为他们这么做。

But if they want to do it from scratch, we can do that for them today.

我们可以使用他们之前的工作成果，如果他们想用这些作为基础内容来创建新的动议，或者我们可以使用我们的权威材料。

And we can use their prior work product if they wanna use that as the grounding content to to create a new motion, or we can use our authoritative material.

他们可以自行选择来源和基础内容。

They can choose what the source is, what the grounding content is.

我想问的是，这里的自动化程度如何？

I guess I'm asking what's the level of automation there?

对吧？

Right?

所以你是一名律师，你有一个文档管理系统，现在来了一个新客户，没错。

So you're an attorney, you've got a document management system, you've got a new client Yeah.

你需要提交一份你常用于各种事务（比如延期）的标准动议。

You need to file some standardized motion that you always file for whatever thing you need to do, continuance.

在哪个环节，亚历克西斯会说：我正在关注这个案件？

At what point does Alexis say, I'm watching this case.

我会帮你提交这个文件。

I'm gonna file this for you.

我只是帮你点几下按钮而已。

I'm just I'm just gonna hit the buttons for you.

别担心这个。

Don't worry about it.

就像一个优秀的法律助理会做的那样。

In a way that a great legal assistant might do that.

我们总会给律师提供选择的机会。

We're always going to give the attorney the opportunity.

我们不希望在没有监督的情况下替他们做事情。

Like, we we don't wanna just be doing things on their behalf in an unsupervised way.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们会给他们提供这个机会。

So we're gonna give them the opportunity.

我们，你可以达到这样一个地步，我们会说，嘿。

We we, you we could get to the point where we say, hey.

看。

Look.

看起来你需要延期。

It looks like you need a continuance.

这是延期申请的草稿，它会自动帮你提交。

Here's a draft of a continuance push here, and, you know, it will automatically file it.

我们今天还达不到那个阶段。

We're not to that point today.

但如果你需要延期，我们可以帮你起草。

But if you need a continuance, we can draft it for you.

对吧？

Right?

如果你想想我们的愿景，那就是每位律师都会拥有一个专属的AI助手，它会了解他们的专业领域。

And if you think about like like, our vision is that every attorney is gonna have their own personalized AI assistant, and it's gonna understand their practice area.

它会理解他们的管辖范围。

It's gonna understand their jurisdiction.

它将能够访问他们的先前工作成果。

It's going to have access to their prior work product.

它将能够访问，而系统的好坏只取决于其背后的内容。

It's gonna have access to and systems are only as good as the content behind them.

对吧？

Right?

因此，它将能够访问我们高达1600亿份文件和记录。

So it's gonna have access to our 160,000,000,000 documents and records.

它将能够自动化他们今天所执行的任务。

And it's going to be able to automate tasks that they do today.

对吧？

Right?

如果你考虑到各种类型的律师以及他们所执行的各种任务，你知道，大约有八到一万个任务可以实现自动化。

And if you think about all the different types of attorneys and all the different tasks that they perform, you know, there's probably eight to 10,000 tasks that could be automated.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们正在与客户合作，了解哪些任务最重要，并正在与他们合作，今天就自动化这些任务。

And so we're we're working with our customers to understand, you know, what are the most important tasks, and we're working with them to to automate those tasks today.

因此，我们拥有公司历史上最大、最丰富的项目待办列表，因为还有这么多事情有待自动化，但我们正在与客户合作推进这些工作。

So we have, you know, the largest and most robust backlog of projects that we've ever had in the history of our company because there's so many of these things that that still are to be automated, but, you know, we're working we're working with our customers to do that.

如果他们告诉我们，嘿。

If they tell us that, hey.

我们真正希望的是，你们能自动提交这个文件，或者提醒我，嘿。

What we really want is for you to automatically file this or for you to, you know, provide me with a an alert that says, hey.

这个截止日期快到了，你需要提交这个文件。

This this deadline is coming up, and you need to file this.

这是草稿。

Here's a draft.

你想要提交吗？

Do you wanna file it?

如果他们向我们提出这个需求，我相信我们能够开发出来。

If they if they ask us for that, I'm sure we can develop it.

我们今天还没有达到那个阶段。

We're we're not we're not at that point today.

但我们正处于草拟阶段。

We're but we are in in the drafting phase.

而这个愿景，并不是五年或三年的长远规划。

And then that vision, that's not like a five year vision or a three year vision.

它今天就已经可以实现了。

That's available today.

这就是Protege。

That's Protege.

对吧？

Right?

这就是Protege的功能——当然，它能完成一些任务，但我们还没完成那个庞大的待办清单。

That's what Protege does But it's you know, there there are tasks that it can do, but we haven't finished that, you know, that massive backlog yet.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，如果你看看其他登上《Decoder》节目的首席执行官们，他们都会告诉你，你只需集成我们的计算机视觉系统，我们就会用ECF帮你提交这份动议，他们肯定都很乐意卖你这个产品。

I mean, if you look at the sweep of other COs who've been on Decoder, you know, they're gonna tell you it's just a, you just integrate our computer vision system and we'll use ECF for you to file this motion and it's all they'll they'll they'll all be very happy to sell you that product, I'm sure.

但我这样问的原因是，当我接触到消费级AI公司的首席执行官时，他们总是喜欢告诉我，他们会用AI替我写邮件。

But the reason I'm asking it this way is when I get the consumer AI CEOs, they love to tell me that they're gonna write my emails for me with AI.

是的。

Yeah.

然后他们接下来会说，接着我们会用AI帮你整理收件箱。

And then the next sentence they say is, and then we'll sort your inbox with AI.

嗯。

Mhmm.

总有一天，机器人会彼此写邮件，嗯。

And at some point, the robots are just writing emails to each other Mhmm.

而我则在阅读摘要，是的。

And I'm reading summaries and I Yeah.

在这一链条中，一些非常重要的东西已经丢失了。

Something very important has been lost in that chain.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

而且

And

AI最有趣的结果之一就是，我的iPhone正在总结邮件并为其他iPhone生成邮件，而我却完全不知道发生了什么。

this is one of the funniest outcomes of AI is something my iPhone is just summarizing emails and generating emails for other iPhones to summarize and I have no idea what's going on.

在法律背景下，这是很糟糕的。

That's bad in the legal context.

对吧？

Right?

我们正在自动化生成文件，以为我们客户构建案件。

We're we're automating the the generation of the documents to make the case for our clients.

而在另一端，法官和书记员可能也在使用同样的工具来接收、总结、理解这些论点，并撰写最终的判决意见。

And on the other side, the judges and clerks might be using these same tools to ingest them, summarize, understand the arguments, and write the opinions that are the outcomes.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你觉得在文化层面，有必要对这一点的界限形成自己的看法。

Do you see like culturally, I think it's important for you to have a point of view on where that should stop.

嗯。

Mhmm.

否则，我们只会拥有一个完全自动化的司法系统，让大语言模型彼此对话，也许还有一些其他人没有的防护措施，但我们已经把大量的人从流程中移除了。

Because otherwise we are just gonna have a fully automated justice system of LLMs talking to each other, maybe with some guardrails that other people don't have, but we've taken an enormous amount of humans out of the loop.

是的。

Yeah.

不，我认为必须让人参与其中，这是流程中重要的一部分。

No, I think you have to have the human in the loop that it's an important part of the process.

你知道，如果有人说，嘿。

You know, if if someone says, hey.

你能早上九点见面吗？

Can you meet at 09:00?

你的系统会打开日历，显示你有空见面，并且对方在你的高优先级名单上，于是自动安排了会议。

And your system opens up your calendar and says you're available to meet, and you've got that person on your high priority list, and it sets up the meeting.

我的意思是，我能看到机器人来回处理这类事情。

I mean, I could see bots going back and forth to do those kind of things.

当你谈到实质性法律事务时，风险太高了。

When you're talking about, like, substantive legal matters, the stakes are too high.

你知道吗？

You know?

你谈的是，比如，一位残疾退伍军人能否获得福利。

You're you're talking about, you know, a disabled veteran, you know, getting their benefits or not getting their benefits.

你谈的是，比如，自然灾害的受害者能否获得保险赔偿。

You know, you're talking about a victim of a natural disaster, you know, getting insurance proceeds or not getting insurance proceeds.

你谈的是，一位单亲母亲能否获得社会福利。

You're talking about a single mother, you know, being getting welfare benefits or not getting welfare benefits.

这些都是法律事务，对人们的生活有着巨大的影响。

These are all legal matters, and they're they really have a huge impact on people's lives.

我认为，对于机器人来回传递信息来说，这里的风险实在太高了。

The stakes are I think are way too high for bots to be kind of going back and forth and sharing information.

而且他们，你认为书记员和法官也应该像律师一样使用人工智能吗？

And and they Do you think that clerks and judges should be using AI the same way the lawyer should be?

因为我会在这里划一条界线：我不认为书记员应该被要求像人类一样阅读一切并解释一切。

Because that that's where I would draw the line is I don't I think that clerks should be made to read everything as humans and interpret everything as humans.

法官也应该被要求像人类一样撰写一切。

The judges should be made to write everything as humans.

是的。

Yeah.

但是它

But it

这条界线似乎已经不再被正式明确了。

doesn't seem like that line has been formalized anymore.

我不认为法官应该亲自撰写每一条内容。

I I don't think that they should, like, I don't think a judge should write every line.

我认为他们可以使用人工智能。

I think that they could use AI.

当你把概念输入进去，能够围绕这些概念组织语言，并以有条理的方式结构化时，这真的很棒。

You know, it's great when you put concepts in at being able to put the words around that concept and put, you know, structure them in an an orderly way.

所以我认为工作中有一部分可以由人工智能完成，但我认为不应该是机器人与机器人对话。

So I think that there's a there is a component of the work that could be done by AI, but I don't think it should be a bot talking to a bot.

我不认为应该完全外包给人工智能。

I don't think it should be fully outsourced to AI.

我认为作为法官、书记员或律师，你有责任审阅这份文件，确保它确实表达了你原本想表达的意思。

I think that you've got a responsibility, you know, as a judge, as a law clerk, as a lawyer, to review that document and make sure this is actually saying what you intended to say.

我认为大多数律师都是这样使用的。

And I think most attorneys are are using it that way.

对吧？

Right?

它会生成一个优秀的初稿，也许是80%的初稿，这样你只需要完成20%的工作，但这20%的工作是深入的分析性思考，是你上法学院真正想做的，而不是你之前描述的那种工作。

It will create a great draft, maybe an 80% draft, right, which allows you to do 20% of the work, but that 20% of the work is, like, the deep analytical thought work, the things you actually went to law school to do as opposed to kind of what you were describing earlier.

对吧？

Right?

我认为这将让律师们更多地从事这类工作。

And I think it's gonna allow lawyers to do more of that type of work.

我很想知道不同司法管辖区和巡回法院如何处理法官和书记员各自该做什么的问题？

I'm curious to see how different jurisdictions and and circuits approach the question of what should the judges be doing and what should the clerks be doing?

因为我感觉这种压力会在不同领域以不同方式显现出来。

Cause I sense that that pressure is gonna express itself in different ways across the field.

我百分百确定。

I think it I'm a 100% sure.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，法官们正逐渐变成法务审计员。

Mean, I mean, judges are are becoming forensic auditors.

对吧？

Right?

他们正在审查这些信息，寻找虚假案例。

And they're reviewing this information looking for fake cases.

对吧？

Right?

我们不希望他们做这种事。

That's we don't want them doing that.

这不应该是他们的工作。

That should not be their job.

对吧？

Right?

我认为这些领域确实需要一些改变。

I think things do do need to change in some of these areas.

用人工智能来发现人工智能，这是《Decoder》节目中经常提到的另一个主题。

Using AI to catch AI is another theme that comes up on Decoder all the time.

我要说，这是我在十二周后第一次回来。

I will say, it is my first time to be back after twelve weeks.

我完全忘了问你那些Decoder的问题。

I have utterly forgotten to ask you the Decoder questions.

好吧。

Okay.

那我现在来问一下，然后我想再把视角放得更广一点。

So let me do that, and then I wanna zoom out a little bit farther.

这些是我自己的问题。

These are my own questions.

你能看出来我有点生疏了。

You can tell I'm a little rusty.

Lexis、Nexus，我在看领导结构。

Lexis, Nexus, I'm looking at the leadership structure.

嗯。

Yeah.

这非常复杂。

It's very complicated.

对吧？

Right?

有一位不是你的首席执行官，迈克·沃尔什，但你是美国和英国的首席执行官。

There's a a CEO who's not you, Mike Walsh, but then you're the CEO of The US and UK.

是的。

Yeah.

还有其他许多副总裁分布在各处。

There's a bunch of other VPs everywhere.

你有一个名为Relix的母公司。

You've got a parent company called Relix.

解释一下LexisNexis的结构，以及你的部分是如何融入其中的。

Explain how LexisNexis is structured and and how your part fits into it.

所以Relix是母公司，是一家上市公司。

So Relic Relix is the parent company, and it's a publicly traded company.

它有四个部门。

It has four divisions.

法律与专业服务是其中之一，法律与专业服务的首席执行官是迈克·沃尔什，我向迈克汇报。

Legal and professional is one of those divisions, and the CEO of legal and professional is Mike Walsh, and I report to Mike.

我的职责是担任我们北美、英国和爱尔兰业务的首席执行官。

And my responsibility is I'm the CEO of our North America, UK, and Ireland businesses.

所以，我们组织的方式是一个矩阵结构。

And so, you know, the way that we're organized, we're it it's a matrix.

对吧？

Right?

因此，我们根据客户细分来开展市场活动。

So we go to market based on customer segments.

我们有大型律所业务、小型律所业务、企业法律业务、联邦政府业务、州和地方政府业务、加拿大业务和英国业务。

So we have a large law business, a small law business, a corporate legal business, a federal government business, a state and local government business, a Canadian business, a UK business.

然后我们还有支持这些业务的职能部门。

And then we have functional groups that support that.

所以我们有产品管理团队，他们负责我们的产品开发路线图和产品战略。

So we have product management, and then they're responsible for our our product development road map and the product strategy.

然后我们有工程团队，他们根据产品管理团队的指导来实际开发产品。

And then we have an engineering team, and they take the direction from product management, but they actually build the products.

此外，我们还有支持性职能部门，如财务、人力资源、法律以及全球运营团队，后者负责为我们收集内容等事务。

And then we have functional groups that support that, finance, HR, legal, global global operations that does things like collects collects content for us.

所以这是一种由内而外的结构，一旦你熟悉了，它并不复杂，而且各个部分高度整合、无缝衔接，使我们能够高效运作。

So it's from the inside out, once you get used to it, it's not that complicated of a structure, and it's really well integrated and and seamlessly integrated together, which allows us to operate really quickly.

你知道，我们可以快速完成任务，而且我认为是以一种高效的方式。

You know, we can get things done quickly, and I think in a in a an efficient way.

我想说，整个流程完全是客户驱动的，一切都是以客户为中心。

And I I would say that it's it's all customer, you know, the whole process is customer driven.

所以我对这种结构特别感兴趣，尤其是你们拥有英国、爱尔兰和北美业务这一点。

So I'm really interested in in the structure, in particular the fact that you have The UK, Ireland, and North America.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗，我对公司结构非常着迷，其中让我感到特别的是，你们并不掌控自己产品的分类体系。

You know, I'm fascinated by corporate structures and one of the things that strikes me at this is you are not in control of the taxonomy of your product.

对吧？

Right?

那些国家的政府才掌控着其法律体系的分类体系。

The governments of those countries are in control of the taxonomy of their legal systems.

英国法律体系和美国法律体系虽然有共同点，但结构却大相径庭。

The English legal system and the American legal system have commonalities, but wildly different structures.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

加拿大法律体系和美国法律体系的结构截然不同。

The Canadian legal system, United States legal system, wildly different structures.

加拿大由于与英国共享历史，实际上与英国更为相似。

Canada actually has more in common with UK given their shared history.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你怎么看这个问题？

How do you think about that?

这些是不同的团队吗？

Is are those different teams?

它们有不同的数据库结构吗？

Do they have different database structures?

这一切是怎么运作的？

How does all that work?

是的。

Yeah.

我们确实有不同的团队，也有不同的数据库结构，但我们实际上正努力尽可能地整合，因为你知道，只要我们的东西有相似之处，就不应该在不同的数据库中用不同的方式标注。

We do have different teams, and we do have different database structures, but we're actually trying to consolidate to the extent we can because, you know, to the extent that we have things that are similar, we shouldn't have them marked up in different ways in in different databases.

以一致的方式进行标注，能使我们实现所谓的极致复用，也就是在不同司法管辖区基本使用我们开发的同一项技术，只需对系统做极少的修改。

Getting them marked up in a consistent way will allow us to, what we call, extreme reuse, but to basically basically use our, you know, that same technology that we developed in multiple jurisdictions with limited changes to that system.

这使我们能够专注于核心系统，并快速推广，让全球各地的人都能受益于这些改进。

And what that allows us to do is really focus on that core system and roll it out quickly until the everyone across the world gets the benefit of all those changes.

但你知道，有些司法管辖区实行民法，有些则实行普通法，而且各种法律的结构也各不相同，因此确实存在一些使这更具挑战性的因素。

But, you know, you have, you know, civil law in in some jurisdictions and, you know, common law in others, and you have all the laws are structured in different ways, and and so you do have things that that make that more challenging.

但这正是我们试图在这里实现的整体思路。

But that's that's the general idea behind what we're trying to do there.

你认为你能否以相同的方式将类似的AI系统应用于这些不同的法律体系？

Do you think you can you apply the same sort of AI systems to these different legal systems in the same way?

还是你们正在以不同方式主动进行本地化？

Or are you actively localizing them in different ways?

我认为我们确实主动进行了本地化，但我们会尽量减少本地化的工作量。

I I would say that we actively localize them, but we try to minimize the amount of work that we do to localize them.

因为很多内容可以用类似的方式处理。

Because a lot of it can be done in a similar way.

人们普遍担心美国的法律先例，尤其是会传到英国等海外地区。

There's a lot of concern generally about American legal precedents sort of traveling across the ocean, particularly UK.

你可以看到，美国的文化战争被大量输出，并以多种方式显现出来。

You can see like American culture war gets exported a lot that shows up in a lot of different ways.

你觉得你的工具会让这种情况变好还是变糟？

Do you think your tool will make that better or worse?

对吧？

Right?

因为如果你不把它们分开，而是试图最小化差异，你可能会因为AI的工作方式而看到重复的论点或结构。

Because if you're not pulling them apart, you're actually trying to minimize the differences, you might see repeat arguments or repeat structures just based on the way the AI works.

嗯。

Yeah.

我的意思是，

I mean,

每个系统都是基于各个司法管辖区的具体内容构建的，所以我们不会混合内容，但我们会尝试利用相同的技术。

each one is is based on the content of the individual jurisdiction, so we don't mix the the content, but we do, you know, we do try to utilize the same technology.

例如，使用搜索相关性技术来找到与用户处理事项最相关的案例。

So for example, search relevance technology to find the most, you know, the case that's most closely associated with the matter that someone is working on.

你知道，我们可以采用这个。

You know, we can take that.

我们可以为美国市场或英国市场等构建它，然后将其推广到其他市场，它会表现得相当不错。

We can build it, like, for The US market, for example, or The UK market, and then we can move it to another market, and it will work pretty good.

它会表现得很好。

It will work pretty well.

然后我们需要做一些修改，使其在特定司法管辖区中表现得非常出色，但我们在该法院模型中已经转移了80%的核心内容。

And then we need to do some modifications to make it work really well for that particular jurisdiction, but we get 80% of the DNA transferred over in that court model.

我之前和迈克·克里格聊过，他是Anthropic的首席产品官。

I was talking to Mike Krieger, he's a chief product officer of Anthropic.

这完全是另一个话题，不同的事情，但他跟我说了这么一句话，一直留在我脑海里。

And just a totally different conversation, a different thing, but he said this thing to me, which is stuck in my mind.

他说：我认出了Claude。

He said, I recognize Claude.

我能看出Claude的写作风格，然后他说：那是我的孩子，挺可爱的。

I can see Claude's writing, and I'm like and he said, that's my boy, which is cute.

你的AI有个性吗？

Does your AI have a personality?

我能在所有这些不同司法管辖区中认出它的写作风格吗？

Can I recognize its writing in all these different jurisdictions?

你知道，我们采用的是多模型方法，所以可能不太清楚究竟是哪个特定模型推动了某个结果。

You know, we use multi model approach, and so I think that it's probably a little less clear, like, which particular model drove something.

所以，你知道，当有人提出请求时，当然，有了AgenTik AI，事情真的发生了变化。

So, you know, like, if someone puts in a request, and, of course, you know, with AgenTik AI, things have really changed.

对吧？

Right?

我想，大概一年半前可能确实是这样。

I think that probably was true maybe, you know, a year and a half ago.

但现在有了AgenTik AI，当有人提出查询时，比如说，他们想起草一份文件，可能客户发来一个请求，她对土地上危险状况对非法侵入者的告知义务这类不动产责任问题感兴趣，比如。

But now with AgenTik AI, when someone puts in a query, like, let's say, they wanted to draft a a document, maybe a client send in a request, and she's interested in a premises liability issue, you know, around, like, duty to inform a trespasser on about a dangerous condition on a piece of land, for example.

对吧？

Right?

这个查询会进入一个规划代理，由它将查询分配给其他代理。

The the the query will go into a an agent a planning agent who will then allocate that query out to other agents.

所以，它需要进行一些深入的研究。

So, you know, it needs to do some deep research.

因此，它可能会使用OpenAI的o3模型，因为这个模型在深度研究方面非常出色。

So maybe it uses the o three model from OpenAI because it's really good at deep research.

而且，最终它需要起草一份文件。

And, you know, at the end, it needs to draft a a document.

所以它可能会使用Claude three，比如Claude three Opus，这个模型在起草方面非常出色。

So maybe it uses Claude three to do that, like the Claude three Opus, which is really good at drafting.

因此，我们是模型无关的。

And so what we're at model agnostic.

我们会根据特定任务选择最合适的模型，因此你最终得到的结果实际上是多个不同模型共同完成的工作，我认为这可能会让你更难分辨，比如，哦，是的。

We'll use whatever model is best at a particular task, and so the result that you get back is actually work that's potentially done by multiple different models, which I think probably makes it a little bit harder just to see, like, oh, yeah.

我知道这份文件是由OpenAI起草的。

I know that was drafted by OpenAI.

这一点在你们的结构中有体现吗？

Is that reflected in your structure?

你提到了工程、产品，还有你们的本地化。

You describe engineering and product and, you know, your localization.

是的。

Yeah.

但这一部分，你必须构建那个代理编排层。

But that piece, right, you've gotta build that agentic orchestration layer.

你必须决定哪些模型最适合哪些用途。

You've gotta decide what models are best for which purpose.

你可以围绕这个问题专门设计一个工程团队。

You could design an engineering organization around that problem specifically.

你们是这样做的吗？还是有别的做法？

Is that how you've done it or is is that done differently?

我们有一个工程团队专门负责规划代理以及将任务分配给不同的代理。

We we have an engineering team that focuses on that around the planner agent and the assignment of the tasks to different agents.

你们的大部分投资是用在这里，还是支付令牌费用？

Is that where the bulk of your investment is or is it paying the token fees?

说实话，我还没这么详细地拆分过，所以我也说不上来。

You know, I haven't actually broken it out that way, so I couldn't tell you.

你知道，令牌费用确实是投资中重要的一部分。

You know, the token fees are certainly an important part of the investment.

工程方面的投入是投资中的巨大组成部分。

The engineering is a huge portion of the investment.

我们聘请的律师来审查输出结果，告诉我们，这好不好，对不对？

The the attorneys that we hire to review the output and tell us, you know, is this good or is this not good?

这是投资中极其重要的一环。

That's that's a massive massive import piece of the investment.

所以我们的投入分散在许多不同的方面，但毫无疑问，我们在这个问题上花了很多很多钱。

So it's it's spread out over many many different things, but certainly we spend a lot a lot of money on that particular issue.

那些律师的情况怎么样？给我讲讲。

What what tell me about those attorneys.

你们聘请律师来对AI的输出进行文件审查？

You hire attorneys to basically do doc review of the AI?

是的。

Yeah.

他们是资深律师吗？

Are they very senior attorneys?

他们是来自大律所的兼职律师吗？

Are they are they moonlighting from big firms?

是一群在地下室的初级律师？

There's a bunch of junior associates in a basement?

这取决于具体任务。

It it's based on the task.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们尽量聘请在特定领域有经验的律师。

So what we try to do is get attorneys that have experience in a per particular matter.

所以，如果我们正在审查与并购交易相关的文件，我们希望由有并购经验的人来审阅，他们能告诉我们，这份文件不错，或者缺少哪些具体内容。

So if we're looking at documents related to an m and a transaction, you know, we want those to be looked at by someone who has some experience in mergers and acquisitions, and they can tell us that, yeah, that that document looks great or, you know, what it's missing, it's missing these particular things.

然后我们可以回去问，为什么我们会

And then we can go back and say, why do we

漏掉这些具体内容？

miss those particular things?

为了在未来纠正这种情况，我们需要对模型的训练方式和指导方式做出哪些调整？

And what changes do we need to make to the way that we're training these models and directing these models to correct that situation going forward?

从这个过程中，你学到的最重要的一件事是什么？

What's the biggest thing you've learned from that process?

我想我学到的最重要的一点是，让律师来做这项工作有多么重要。

I guess the the the biggest thing I've learned is how important it is to have attorneys doing that work.

我的意思是，我原本以为会雇很多技术人员和数据科学家来完成这项工作。

I mean, that was you know, I expected to to hire a lot of technical people and data scientists to do this work.

我没想到会雇这么多律师，但我觉得，我们解决方案的一个关键秘诀就在于，我们的输出都经过律师审核，因此我们才能不断获得更相关的结果。

I didn't really expect to hire an army of attorneys, but I think it's kinda one of the secret sauce components of our solution is that our outputs are attorney reviewed, and so that's how we keep getting the more relevant results.

从实践领域来看，你最初最擅长的是什么，最不擅长的是什么？

Where were you best at to start with, and where were you worst at to start at practice area wise?

你知道，我想我们一开始其实哪方面都不太行。

You know, I I I guess we we weren't really good at anything to begin with.

对吧？

Right?

而且我认为我们正在逐步构建这些内容。

And I and I I think we're, you know, we're kinda building things out.

有时候是针对实践领域，有时候是针对某个具体任务。

Sometimes it's practice area, sometimes it's a a task.

你知道，现在有一个很大的关注点。

You know, I think that the there's a big focus.

你知道，如果你看看我们之前提到的律师所做的一切不同任务，在很多情况下，这些任务的输出都是一种文件。

You know, if if you look at all those different tasks that we were talking about earlier that attorneys do, in many cases, the output of that task is some sort of a document.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们现在非常专注于如何改进我们的文件起草工作。

And so we're really focused right now on like how do we improve our document drafting.

所有这些现在都盈利了吗？

Is all this revenue positive yet?

你们在这些投资上赚钱了吗，还是说你们预计未来会盈利？

Are you are you making money in all this investment or do you see that on the horizon?

哦，没有。

Oh, no.

由于这些举措，我们的增长率明显加快了。

Our growth rate is definitely accelerated as a result of this.

你知道，我们最关注的是客户的成果。

You know, the the main thing that we're focused on is the customer outcome.

因此，我们看到客户对这个解决方案越来越满意。

And so what we're seeing is that that the customers are getting happier and happier and happier with the solution.

所以我认为在这方面非常成功。

And so I'd say that it's been very successful in that regard.

这是我们有史以来增长最快的产品。

It's it's the fastest growing product that we've ever had.

增长很快，但每次查询都在亏钱。

Growing fast but losing money with every query.

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

我们还没到那一步。

We're we're not there.

我们并不是每次查询都在亏钱。

We're not losing money with every query.

好的。

Okay.

你们盈亏平衡了吗？还是已经赚钱了？

Are you breaking even or are you making money?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我们的利润在增长。

I mean, our profit is growing.

是特别针对AI工具，还是整体情况？

On specifically on AI tools or overall?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我们大部分投资都在AI工具上。

I mean, most most of our investments in AI tools.

很好。

Great.

让我宏观看一下。

Let me zoom out.

让我在这里最后再稍微扩大一下视野。

Let me take the last bit here and just zoom out even more broadly.

我之前提到过，我会在这次对话中再次提及先例。

And I mentioned that I would bring up precedent again in this conversation.

我认为，如果你关注美国现在的法律体系，就会知道它正处于一种彻底的动荡之中。

I think if you're paying attention to the legal system of America right now, you know that it's in a state of pretty much pure upheaval.

对吧？

Right?

你看到地方法院法官公开批评最高法院，这通常是不会发生的事。

You've got district court judges calling out the Supreme Court, which is not a thing that usually happens.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你看到最高法院以一种我都不太理解的方式推翻先例。

You have a Supreme Court that is overturning precedents in a way that I don't know.

我觉得我在法学院什么都没学到。

I I feel like I learned nothing in law school.

对吧？

Right?

切弗伦 deference 已经被抛弃了。

Chevron deference is out the door.

汉弗莱执行人案——那项阻止总统罢免联邦贸易委员会委员的法律，我猜也被推翻了。

Humphrey's executor, the law that keeps the president from running FTC commissioners, I'm guessing is out the door.

罗伊诉韦德案，早就被推翻了。

Roe v Wade, it was out the door.

这些基础性的判例，美国法律的基石，全都被推翻了。

Like just these foundational precedents, American law, out the door.

这其中很多都基于保守派法官所谓的原旨主义。

A lot of that is based on what conservative judges would call originalism.

我对原旨主义有很多看法。

I have a lot of feelings about originalism.

但原旨主义内部的一个大趋势是使用人工智能或他们所说的语料库语言学，来确定过去人们的真实含义。

But a big trend inside of originalism is using AI or what they call corpus linguistics to determine what people meant in the past.

然后你使用AI，说它已经为我完成了工作。

And then you take the AI and you say, well it did the job for me.

这就是答案。

This is the answer.

你是否担心你的工具会被用于这种用途？

Are you worried that your tools will be used for that kind of effort?

因为这确实给AI工具带来了巨大压力，要求它理解很多东西。

Because it really puts a lot of pressure on the AI tool to understand a lot of things.

我并不太担心。

I'm not that worried.

我不认为最高法院会去问LexisNexis我们觉得他们应该怎么做，当然，

I don't think the Supreme Court is is asking LexisNexis what we think they should do, and and then does But certainly

当然，各级法院都在这么做。

certainly, courts up and down the chain are.

是的，他们确实如此。

They're yeah.

他们提出的是法律问题。

They're they're asking legal questions.

他们得到答案，然后对这些答案进行解读。

They're getting answers back, and then they're interpreting those answers.

我认为我们提供的是他们做出判断所需的原始内容，但我们并没有在从事法律实务。

I think we're providing them with the raw content that they need to make the determinations, but we're we're not practicing law.

我们并没有替他们做这些决定。

We're not making those decisions for them.

我们得休息一下短暂的时间。

We have to take another short break.

我们马上就回来。

We'll be back in just a minute.

本节目由Rippling赞助。

Support for the show comes from Rippling.

如果你是企业主，事实是这样的。

If you're a business owner, here's the truth.

SaaS 曾承诺让工作更轻松，但如今，普通公司却被数百个应用程序淹没，这些应用将团队割裂、拖慢进度，且彼此无法协同工作。

SaaS promised to make work easier, but now the average company is buried by hundreds of apps that silo your teams, slow you down, and simply don't work together.

这并不是 SaaS。

That's not SaaS.

这是 SAD。

That's SAD.

软件即服务失败。

Software as a disservice.

这就是为什么你需要 Rippling。

That's why you need Rippling.

Rippling 是一个统一的全球人力资源、薪资、IT 和财务平台。

Rippling is the unified platform for global HR, payroll, IT, and finance.

他们已帮助数百万企业用一个专为管理者提供清晰度、速度和控制力的系统，取代了那些拼凑而成的杂乱工具。

They've helped millions replace their mess of cobbled together tools with one system designed to give leaders clarity, speed, and control.

通过将员工、团队和部门整合到一个系统中，Rippling 消除了你原有软件制造的瓶颈、繁琐事务和信息孤岛。

By uniting your employees, teams, and departments in one system, Rippling removes the bottlenecks, busywork, and silos your software created.

Rippling 自动化运行、完美同步，且使用极其简单，为您的公司提供了一个关于员工、其数据以及他们所接触的一切的单一真实来源。

Automated, perfectly in sync, and seriously simple to use, Rippling gives your company one source of truth for your people, their data, and everything they touch.

使用 Rippling，您可以将整个 HR、IT 和财务运营整合为一个系统，也可以根据需要选择最适合填补您软件栈空白的产品。

With Rippling, you can run your entire HR, IT, and finance operations as one, or pick and choose the products that best fill the gaps in your software stack.

现在，您只需访问 rippling.com/decoder，即可免费使用六个月。

And right now, you can get six months free when you go to rippling.com/decoder.

了解更多，请访问 rippling.com/decoder。

Learn more at rippling.com/decoder.

前往 rippling.com/decoder，即可免费使用六个月。

That's rippling.com/decoder for six months free.

条款和条件适用。

Terms and conditions apply.

Decoder 的支持由 Superhuman 提供。

Support for Decoder comes from Superhuman.

AI 承诺了许多功能，但在实践中，它往往只是您需要管理的又一个标签页，反而拖慢了您的进度。

AI promises a lot, but in practice, it often ends up being yet another tab you have to keep track of, slowing you down.

我不知道你怎么样，但我生活中需要的是更少的标签和应用，而不是更多。

I don't know about you, but I need fewer tabs and apps in my life, not more.

欢迎使用Superhuman，这是一款AI生产力工具，能在你工作的每个地方为你赋能。

Say hello to Superhuman, the AI productivity sweep that gives you superpowers everywhere you work.

通过Grammarly、Mail和Coda协同工作，你可以在整个工作流程中获得主动帮助，从写作到准备会议、演示文稿等等。

With Grammarly, Mail, and Coda working together, you get proactive help across your workflow, from writing to preparing for meetings, presentations, and so much more.

与那些存在于独立窗口中的聊天机器人不同，Superhuman的AI直接融入你已有的应用和标签中，比如你的邮件、文档以及所有工作场所。

Unlike chatbots that live in separate windows, Superhuman's AI is in the apps and tabs where you already are, like your email, docs, and everywhere you work.

把Superhuman想象成你的AI梦之队，它会主动帮你更快地完成任务。

Think of Superhuman as your AI dream team, proactively helping you go from to do to done faster.

Superhuman知道你可能需要什么，并提供建议。

Superhuman knows what you might need and offers suggestions.

它会在关键时刻引导你，让你展现出最好的自己，并专注于真正重要的事情。

It guides you in the moment so you sound like your best self and stay focused on what matters.

它并不会让你变得超人。

It doesn't make you superhuman.

它为你提供了证明你一直如此的工具。

It gives you the tools to prove you always were.

通过融入你工作场景的AI，释放你超凡的潜力。

Unleash your superhuman potential with AI that meets you where you work.

了解更多，请访问 superhuman.com/podcast。

Learn more at superhuman.com/podcast.

那就是 superhuman.com/podcast。

That's superhuman.com/podcast.

本节目由领英赞助。

Support for this show comes from LinkedIn.

想象一下，如果所有包含‘我需要一个合适的人选’这句台词的电影，都妥协为‘我随便找个人就行’会怎样？

Imagine if any of the movies that included the line, I need the right person for the job, settled for, I'll just take about anyone.

多少次劫案会因此失败？

How many heists would have failed?

多少笔交易会因此泡汤？

How many deals would have fallen through?

有多少秘密特工任务会以灾难告终？

How many secret spy missions would have ended in disaster?

那么，当你招聘时，既然你需要的是合适的人选，为什么还要随便找个人呢？当你需要合适的人选时，可以使用LinkedIn招聘。

So why would you accept just anyone when hiring for your When you need the right person for the job, you can turn to LinkedIn Jobs.

现在，LinkedIn招聘推出了全新的AI助手，让你有信心找到那些其他地方无法寻得的顶尖人才。

And now LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant, so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else.

通过LinkedIn招聘的AI助手，你可以跳过繁琐的步骤和招聘术语。

With LinkedIn jobs AI assistant, you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon.

它会根据你为职位设定的标准筛选求职者，仅呈现最匹配的人选，让你不必被困在堆积如山的简历中。

It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes.

一次就招对人。

Hire right the first time.

免费发布职位到linkedin.com/partner，然后推广职位以使用LinkedIn招聘的新AI助手，让寻找顶尖候选人变得更轻松快捷。

Post your job for free at linkedin.com/partner, then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates.

免费发布职位，请访问linkedin.com/partner。

That's linkedin.com/partner to post your job for free.

条款和条件适用。

Terms and conditions apply.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

我正在与LexisNexis首席执行官肖恩·菲茨帕特里克讨论人工智能为原旨主义带来的新变化。

I'm talking with LexisNexis CEO Sean Fitzpatrick about the wrinkle that AI is adding to originalism.

我本来打算突然给肖恩来个产品演示。

And I kind of ended up springing a product demo on Sean to do it.

我要突然给你看这个，但这就是了。

I'm gonna spring this on you, but here it is.

约翰·布什是一位特朗普任命的法官。

Here's John Bush is a Trump appointed judge.

他引用了法律领域中语料库语言学的兴起，并表示，要实践原旨主义，我必须进行繁琐且耗时的过程，筛选所有这些资料。

Cited the emergence of corpus linguistics in the legal field, and he said, to do originalism, I must undertake the highly laborious and time consuming process of sifting through all this.

但如果能借助人工智能来完成所有检索和词义、用法的统计分析，只要AI值得信赖，这项工作就会容易得多。

But what if AI were employed to do all the review of the hits and compile statistics on word meaning and usage, if the AI could be trusted, that would make the job much easier.

对吧？

Right?

这就是他在说，我可以把原旨主义的思考外包给人工智能。

That is him saying I can outsource originalist thinking to an AI.

这是一种趋势。

And this is a trend.

特别是对于原旨主义法官，我认为他们认为自己应该做的工作是确定一个词在过去的意思。

We I see this particularly with the originalist judges that the job they think they're they're meant to do is determine what a word meant in the past.

而人工智能非常擅长统计出这个词在过去的意思。

And AI is great at being like statistically this is what that word meant in the past.

是的。

Yeah.

我们将把一些法律推理外包给他们。

And we're gonna outsource some legal reasoning to them.

我认为这非常奇怪。

And this is I think very odd.

撇开我对原旨主义的看法，撇开我对2025年美国遵循先例制度的看法，仅仅说我要用人工智能去追溯过去、确定某个词的含义，这看起来非常奇怪。

Like my thoughts about originalism aside, my thoughts about Starry Decisis America in 2025 aside, saying I will use an AI to reach into the past and and determine this meeting seems very odd.

我只是想知道，你对你这个工具被这样使用有何感受？

And I'm just wondering how you feel about your tool being used in that way.

我确实理解你的观点。

I definitely understand your point there.

你知道吗，我会想到砖块的类比。

You know, I I think about, like, the analogy of a brick.

对吧？

Right?

你可以用砖头建医院，照顾生病的孩子，也可以拿起一块砖头砸碎窗户。

You can use a brick to build a hospital, take care of sick children, or you could take a brick and you could throw it through a window.

对吧？

Right?

一种用法非常好，另一种用法则相当负面。

One use is really great, and one use is pretty negative.

但无论如何，它都只是一块砖。

But in either case, it's a it's a brick.

我觉得我们的工具本身并不是好或坏的。

I, you know, I I I think about our tool as being, like, not good or bad.

我认为它可以被用于好的方面。

I think it could be used for good.

我觉得它可以用于各种活动，比如律师们——我不愿说原旨主义是坏事。

You know, I think it could be used for, you know, any type of activity that that attorneys I I I wouldn't wanna say originalism is a bad thing.

对吧？

Right?

我认为它可以用于许多不同的用途。

I I think it could be used for many different things.

我认为它可以用于原旨主义。

I think it could be used for originalism.

我认为它可以帮助那些希望走这条路、以新视角看待事物的人。

I think it could be helpful for those that that wanted to take that path and find a new way of looking at something.

我们拥有所有数据。

We have all the data.

他们可以搜索这些数据。

They can search it.

他们可以使用这个工具来发现过去无法找到的内容。

They can use the tool to find things that they you know, it wasn't possible to find in the past.

所以我能想象他们以这种方式使用我们的工具。

So I could see them, you know, using our tool in that way.

我想，如何使用这个产品，最终还是由律师们来决定。

And I guess it's, you know, it's up to the attorneys to determine how they're going to to use the product.

我们并不……嗯，那是另一回事。

We're not Well, there's that.

我们开发它是因为我们试图改变法律。

We're building it because we're trying to change the law.

对吧？

Right?

我们开发它是因为我们试图帮助律师完成他们想做的工作。

We're building it because we're trying to help attorneys do the tasks that they want to do.

对。

Right.

但我

But I

我关注的是科技行业的大趋势，而不是法律行业，而是过去十五到二十年的科技行业。

I look at the sweep of the tech industry, not the legal industry, but the tech industry over the past fifteen, twenty years.

天啊，我已经听过很多很多次这样的回答了。

Boy, have I heard that answer many many many times.

社交媒体公司都说，你知道的，你可以用它来做善事或恶事，我们是中立的平台。

The social media companies all said, well, you know, you can use it for good or evil, we're neutral platforms.

结果发现，也许他们本该更早地考虑到这些危害。

And it turns out, maybe they should have thought of some of these harms earlier.

今天的AI公司，谁知道训练是否构成版权侵权？

The AI companies today, who knows if training is copyright?