大卫·莫里西，演员

你有没有觉得，得小心翼翼的，跟爸爸相处时像踩在鸡蛋上一样？

Was there a sense that you had to be careful, that you were walking on eggshells around your dad a bit?

是的。

Yeah.

家里确实这样，我放学回家，妈妈有时候会让我小声点，因为爸爸在睡觉，或者类似的情况。

Very much in the house that did feel to for me, you know, that you'd you'd come home from school and mom would go would shush me sometimes because, you know, dad was having a sleep or whatever.

我一直对钥匙开门的声音感到害怕，倒不是听见门里的动静，而是自己从口袋里掏出钥匙、插进锁孔的那一刻，心里总在想：门后会是什么？

I've always had a fear of the key at the door, not so much hearing it from inside the house, but actually getting it out of my own pocket and putting it in the lock of thinking, what's behind that door?

我进去之后会看到什么？

What am I gonna find when I go in?

一切都会好好的吗？还是出什么事了？

Will everything be okay or has something happened?

屋里的气氛怎么样？

What's the atmosphere like?

这种感觉持续了好多年，其实都源于那段时期。

And I had that for years actually, but it came it stemmed from that time.

你说钥匙插在门锁里的那种感觉，真有意思。

It's interesting that when you say that that key in the door thing.

所以在那种情况下，你只能到家外面去找个避风港吧。

So so in that case, you have to kinda find your refuge outside the home then.

对。

Mhmm.

你提到过Everyman剧院，还有利物浦这个地方，说得特别亲切。

You know, you've talked about very fondly about the Everyman Theatre, but also about Liverpool, you know, as a place.

你说小时候在利物浦，感觉整个世界都围着你转。

You said growing up in Liverpool, you felt you were at the center of the universe.

那你平时想开心、想自由的时候，都会去哪儿？

So so where did you go when you needed to feel happy, to feel free?

Everyman剧院下面有个酒吧，叫The Bistro，经常在那儿碰见人，比如Echo and The Bunnymen就坐在角落，Teardrop Explodes也会走进来，Pete Wiley也常出现。

The Everyman had a bar underneath it called The Bistro, and you'd be in there and sort of, you know, Echo and The Bunnyman would be sitting in the corner or, you know, Teardrop Explodes would walk in or Pete Wiley had come in and stuff.

到了周四晚上，你还能在The Pops看到他们。

And then you'd see them on top of The Pops on a Thursday night, you know.

再往下走不远就是曼彻斯特，那边的场景正热闹着呢。

And then, you know, just down the road was Manchester, and that scene was happening.

所以你真的会觉得，自己正处在世界的中心。

So you did feel that you were at the center of the universe.

那时候披头士有点儿过时了。

The Beatles at that time was slightly uncool.

但知道他们曾经走过你每天走的街道，还登上了世界舞台，这给这座城市、也给你这个城里人增添了不少光彩，再加上足球，就更不用说了。

But knowing that they'd walked down the very streets that you were walking down and they'd achieved world fame, it did give this kudos to the city and you as a member of the city and then the football on top of that.

大卫，听你这么说，尽管家里有那么多事，你听起来却是个特别有动力、充满活力的年轻人。

David, you know, listening to you talk, like, despite everything that you were dealing with at home, you sound like such a motivated, engaged young man.

你对什么都感兴趣，特别努力，还进了剧院的董事会。

Know, you're interested in everything, working really hard, you're on the board of this theatre.

这让我好奇，你在学校表现怎么样？

It's making me wonder how you got on at school.

你这种天赋和热情，学校有没有发现并支持过你？

You know, was that potential and that engagement embraced there and spotted?

没有。

No.

完全不是。

Not at all.

我在学校有几个好朋友。

I got good friends at school.

我当过我们学校的班长，这挺奇怪的。

I was head boy at my school, which was weird.

但我们学校是普通中学。

But it was a secondary modern.

学校根本不搞戏剧，所以我得自己去找戏剧活动。

They didn't do any drama, so I had to go and find the drama myself.

那所学校跟《凯斯》里的学校一模一样。

It was very much like the school in Kes.

乱七八糟的。

It was chaotic.

在我那所学校，小时候根本没人鼓励你举手回答问题。

You were not encouraged as a young lad in my school to put your hand up and answer a question in the class.

要是你真这么做了，放学后在操场上准得挨揍。

That would guarantee you get your head kicked in in the in the schoolyard afterwards.

那种氛围特别压抑。

It was quite oppressive.

我在那儿交到了不错的朋友。

I made good friends there.

真的交到了，到现在还保持着联系，但总觉得错过了什么。

I really did, and and I have them today, but I did feel cheated out of that.

那你呢？你还记得什么时候开始跟别人说，我想当演员吗？

And for you, do you remember when you started telling people, I'm I wanna be an actor.

我要当演员了。

I'm going to be an actor.

我觉得你当时是挺有意识地这么打算的，对吧？

Because I think you were quite intentional about it, weren't

我是的。

I was.

我当时就很清楚，有两件事。

I was very I knew there was two things.

《卡雷斯》这部电影对我影响很大，但我还看过一集《冷战》里迈克尔·布莱恩特演的戏，他装疯想逃出去，那让我特别不安。

There was Cares was a big film for me, but I also saw an episode of Cold It with Michael Bryant, where he pretends to go mad in order to escape, and that troubled me.

真的让我很难受。

It really upset me.

我特别能理解他，理解他的角色和处境。

I identified with him, his character, his situation.

那种在心里翻腾的感觉，让我想弄明白该怎么掌控它，或者至少理解它。

And that sort of thing that bubbled up inside me, I wanted to find out how to how to control that or understand it.

所以我开始去寻找表演。

And therefore, I went looking for acting.

我是在找一条出路。

I went looking for a way out.

当我走进Everyman剧院的大门时，我就找到了它。

And when I walked into the door of The Everyman, I found it.

我遇到了一群人在玩乐中探索，一切都围绕着情感。

I found these people who were having fun but experimenting, and it was about emotion.

他们毫不掩饰地表达感情。

It was unashamedly about feelings.

我跟同代的几位演员聊过这件事，他们都记得那段经历。

And I've spoken to a couple of actors of my generation about that episode, and they all remember it.

是那个关键的转折点，对吧？

Touchstone, isn't

他们都记得那段经历。

They all remember it.

对。

Mhmm.

他假装发疯，就是为了让德国人放他走，最后他还真成功了。

And he was, you know, he was someone who pretended to go mad so that the Germans would have to let him go, and he succeeds in that.

就在结尾处，英国指挥官走了进来，念了一封他妻子的信，说：‘对不起。’

And then just at the end, the the British commander comes in and reads this letter from his wife saying, we're sorry.

他现在住进了疗养院，但谢谢你在他试图装疯逃走、结果真把自己逼疯的时候照顾他。那真的让我心碎。

He's in an institution now, but thanks for looking after him when he and he'd driven himself mad by trying to go mad to escape, And that broke my heart.

我的天，简直太疯狂了。

I mean, was just wild.

所以……

So

是的。

Yeah.

回想起来还是特别触动人心。

Emotional just remembering it.

大卫，我们稍停一下，来听段音乐吧？

David, let's take a minute and go to the music, shall we?

好。

Yeah.

我生命中那些重要的人里，还有个叫阿尔伯特·拜伦的，他也教会了我关于电影、书籍和各种类型的音乐。

So the those men who were important in my life, there was another guy called Albert Byron, and he taught me about film and books and music as well, different types of music.

他常带我去街角的那家影院看塔可夫斯基的《镜子》之类的片子。

And he would take me to, like, the corner house to see Tarkovsky's Mirror and all those stuff.

那真是一段难得的学习经历，我非常感激他。

And it was a real education, and I owe him so much.

我记得有一次去他家，他给我放了这段音乐。

I remember going around to his house once, and he played me this.

那一刻简直像开悟了一样。

And it was like a revelation.

我立刻买了这张专辑，之后去哪儿都带着它。

And I bought the album, and then I've taken it with me everywhere.

那是基思·贾雷特的科隆音乐会。

And it's Keith Jarrett's clone concert.

基思·贾雷特，1975年科隆音乐会的开场部分。

Keith Jarrett, The Beginning of the Cologne Concert from 1975.

大卫·莫里西，你16岁就辍学离家，后来去了位于伍尔弗汉普顿的Zip剧院公司工作，对吧？

David Morrissey, you left school and you left home at 16 and got a job, I think, with The Zip Theatre Company based in Wolverhampton.

你当时具体是做什么的？

What did your role entail?

那时候，撒切尔推出了一个叫青年机会计划的项目，简称YOP，主要是为了让年轻人脱离失业救济。

At that time, Thatcher brought in this thing called youth opportunity programs, yops, and they were basically to take people off the dole.

你每个月能拿23.5英镑，但如果离开家乡，就能拿到28英镑。

You got paid £23.50, I think, but if you left your hometown, you got paid £28.

我有几个朋友发现了这个机会。

And a couple of my mates had found this.

好像叫什么‘去别的城市做志愿者’之类的。

It was called volunteers in another city or something like that.

我几个朋友决定去申请，我也跟着报了名。

And they a couple of my mates just decided to apply for it, and I applied for it.

结果就进了这家叫Zip的剧院公司。

And it was this theatre company, Zip.

我们到了之后，发现他们特别棒。

And we got there, and they were great.

那是四个来自伯明翰的戏剧系学生。

It was four drama students from Birmingham.

他们凑在一起，自己成立了剧团。

We've got together, formed their own company.

我们虽然也演点戏，但主要工作是搭布景、做服装，跟着他们到处巡演。

We did a little bit of acting, but really what we did was we made the sets, we made the costumes, we toured with them.

他们在米德兰兹地区的各种场地巡演。

They toured all these Midlands sort of venues.

演的是什么剧目？

What kind of shows?

《黑豹》是他们最出名的一部。

Well, The Panther was the big thing.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

是的

Yeah.

我们还演过《鹅妈妈》。

We did Mother Goose.

主角是公司老板约翰·林加德·莱恩，他扮演鹅妈妈。

The main actor in it was the guy who ran the company called John Lingard Lane, and he was like Mother Goose.

他根本不允许你靠近任何笑点。

And he wasn't gonna let you get anywhere

但他真是绝了。

near a gag, and he was brilliant.

我们上午给孩子办派对，下午可能去学校演出。

And we would do children's sort of party in the morning, maybe like a school in the afternoon.

但晚上我们会在工人俱乐部演出。

But in the evening, we do these working men's clubs.

你可以想象，演出内容白天是不断调整的。

And the show, you can imagine, changed during the day.

更偏蓝一点。

Rather more blue.

到了最后就那样了。

It's just By the end.

随着时间推移。

As the hours went on.

是的。

Yeah.

亲眼看到那一幕真是让人震撼，他实在太出色了。

It was it was a revelation to see it, but he was he was amazing.

我在那儿待了六个月。

And I was there for six months.

我离家在外。

I was away from home.

那段时间挺难熬的。

That was difficult.

我觉得这特别难熬。

I found that very difficult.

你妈妈肯定也不好受吧，那会儿不就是你爸爸去世一年后吗？

That must have been tough for your mom as well because that's what, a year after your dad died?

是啊。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It was.

我就一心想着离开。

I just knew I wanted to get out.

我必须一个人撑下去。

I had to be on my own.

关于我爸生病的那些事，让我彻底明白了一件事：一切都得靠我自己。

Part of the thing for me with my dad's illness and all that stuff was that I was left in no doubt that it was up to me.

不管发生什么，都不会有别人替我扛，更别提我爸妈了。

Whatever was gonna happen, it wasn't gonna happen for my parents or anything like that.

我必须想办法撑下去。

I had to make it work.

我知道自己在学业上根本不可能上大学之类的。

And I knew that academically, was never gonna be able to go to university or anything.

这种事根本不会发生在我身上，所以我只能在别处找到出路。

That was never gonna happen to me, so I had to make it happen somewhere else.

这对我妈来说很难，但我明白，我得断掉依赖，学会独立。

It was hard for my mom, but I knew I had to cut the strings and find independence.

人们常说，这种极度独立其实是创伤的反应。

You know, they say that that hyper independence is a trauma response.

我确实有时候会干脆切断联系。

I do tend to cut off sometimes.

你知道，我是个正在康复的酗酒者。

And, you know, I've I've I am a recovering alcoholic.

我已经戒酒二十一年了。

I was someone who has been sober now for twenty one years.

那都是创伤的一部分，当时不知道怎么停下来，一直处于抑郁状态，就是特别想一个人待着。

And that was all part of that, being in trauma, not knowing how to stop, being sort of in a depressive state and sort of just, you know, needing to be on my own.

一开始喝酒，是为了缓解焦虑。

Drinking first was about anxiety.

我有严重的社交焦虑，喝酒帮我熬过了那些时刻。

It was about I've had this terrible social anxiety and that helped me get through it.

那是不是从你青少年时期就开始了？

And does that go back to your teens then?

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It really does.

利物浦是个爱派对的城市。

And Liverpool is a party city.

你不喝酒，那才叫奇怪呢。

You would have been abnormal not to drink, you know?

但后来到了成年，我就再也停不下来了。

But then I got later on in my life, in my adult life, I couldn't stop.

我喝酒不再是为了社交，也不是为了缓解焦虑。

And I wasn't drinking to be convivial, and I wasn't drinking to sort of get through the anxiety.

我只是一个人待在酒吧里，你知道的，这让我自己很难受，也让我前妻和身边的人特别痛苦。

I was just I was on my own in the pub, you know, and that was really hard and very hard for my ex wife and and people around me.

我曾经和一个同事一起工作。

I worked with a guy on a job.

他在工作中给了我他的电话，我知道他是戒酒互助会的成员。

He gave me his number on the job, and I knew he was in AA.

两年后，我状态差到了极点，大清早给他打了电话，他立刻赶到我家，就坐在我旁边陪着我。

And then two years later, I was in a terrible, terrible state, and I phoned him quite late, like early in the morning time, and he came around to my house and just sat with me.

从那天起，我真的再也没有碰过酒。

And that was I've not drank since that day, really.

这段日子真的很艰难。

So it's been tough.

我的意思是，我戒酒之后，并没有因此就不再是酒鬼了。

I mean, the other thing for me is when I stopped drinking, I didn't stop being an alcoholic.

很多年里，我的行为依然非常自我毁灭。

My behavior was still very self destructive for many years.

当你现在回看当年那个16岁离家、辍学、搬到新城镇的少年，其实挺有意思的。你描述自己当时对世界感到焦虑，社交上也紧张，总把自己关起来，但同时又特别勇敢。

When you look back at yourself now as that young lad leaving home, leaving school and moving to a new town at 16, it's interesting because you describe in a sense that you're anxious about the world and also socially anxious and isolating yourself, but but really brave.

敢那样做，真是需要勇气。

How brave to do that?

回想起那时候的自己，你现在感觉怎么样？

How do you feel looking back at you when you were that age?

现在回头看，我觉得自己当时其实处于一种危机状态，但救了我一命的是工作。

Now I feel I was in crisis a little bit, but the thing that rescued me was work.

所以我一直对工作有种奇怪的依赖，因为只有在工作的时候，我才觉得安心。

And so that's why I've always had this weird thing with work, is that's where I feel safe.

有个巴里·汉弗莱斯的名言，说他当时以戴·曼德的身份巡演，参加各种活动什么的。

There's a great Barry Humphries quote where he's sort of on tour as Day Madner, and he's doing all these different functions and stuff.

等他忙完一天，走上舞台扮演戴·曼德，面对五千观众时，他第一反应却是：终于一个人了。

And then at the end of his busy day, he walks out on stage as Day Madner in front of, you know, 5,000 people, and his immediate thought is, alone at last.

没错。

And Right.

我特别能理解这种感觉。

I can relate to that.

工作的时候，我才有安全感。

Like, when I'm in work, I feel safe.

我不一定觉得能掌控一切，但我知道，那里才是我该待的地方。

I feel I know not not necessarily in control, but I feel it's where I should be.

对。

Mhmm.

在生活中，我在这方面就没那么自信了。

In my life, I'm less less confident around that.

我总在琢磨怎么脱身。

I I and I do I'm always looking for an exit strategy.

是的

Mhmm.

在哪方面？

In what?

在生活里？

In life?

在每种情况下都是。

In every situation.

对的。

Yeah.

就连现在也是。

Even now.

就连现在也是。

Even now.

没错。

Right.

门在你后面。

Door's behind you.

对。

Yeah.

就是这种事。

It's that type of thing.

你觉得，知道

Do think, know

我现在感觉好多了。

I feel I'm much better nowadays.

但很长一段时间，我总对自己说我不够好，诸如此类的话。

But for a long time, I was really telling myself I wasn't enough and all that stuff.

这加剧了酗酒问题，也让我更难停下来。

And that added to the sort of the alcoholism really and the the inability to stop.

所以你十几岁的时候，从世事角度看，一切很快就发展起来了。

So as a teenager, world wise, things took off for you pretty quickly.

你18岁的时候就拿到了第一个重大机会。

You were only 18 when you got your first big break.

是的。

Mhmm.

你出演了第四频道的剧集《一个夏天》。

You were cast in the Channel four drama One Summer.

对。

Mhmm.

这部剧当时讨论很多，评价也很高，可以说让你第一次尝到了成名的滋味。

It was much talked about, very well reviewed, and I think gave you your first taste of fame, really.

被人认出来是什么感觉？

How did it feel to be recognized?

刚开始挺好的，但后来变得特别奇怪。

It felt great at first and then got very strange.

其实我当时才17岁，因为拍的时候刚过完18岁生日。

I was actually 17 because I had my eighteenth birthday on it.

那时候我演了戏，赚了一点钱，口袋里总算有点积蓄。

And I you know, you do it, and then I had a bit of money in my pocket.

于是我就出门旅行了。

So I went traveling.

去了非洲那边，到处走走。

I went to Africa and stuff.

后来我在内罗毕一家酒店坐着，喝着咖啡什么的。

And then I was sitting in Nairobi in this hotel having a coffee or something.

坐我前面有个男人拿着份报纸，突然翻了过来。

And there was a guy in front of me with a newspaper, and he turned it around.

是《泰晤士报》，上面居然有我的照片。

It was The Times, and there was a picture of me on the on the paper.

我就走过去，问他能不能借我看看。

So I went over and asked him if I could borrow it.

那是一篇对第一集的评论。

It was a review for the first episode.

节目播出了，我居然一点都不知道。

It come out, and I didn't know.

所以我心想，还是赶紧回家吧。

So I thought, well, I better get home.

于是我就回去了。

So I got home.

到了休斯顿，发现路上的人都在盯着我看。

I got to Houston, and people were looking at me.

我当时就觉得，这事儿太奇怪了。

And I was like, this is very weird.

真有点不正常。

This is odd.

后来上了火车，还是有人一直盯着我看。

And then I got on the train, and people were always looking still looking at me.

打车去我妈那儿时，司机一路上都特别激动。

And then I got a cab to my mom's, and the cab driver was, like, all over the place.

他当时

He was

天哪。

like, oh my god.

他们让我盯着你，诸如此类的。

They have me watching you and all that.

他没直接送我回家，而是先带我去他家，想让我见见

Instead of taking me home, he took me to his house first to introduce me to

是想让你露个脸吗？

To show you off?

对。

Yeah.

给他

To introduce me to his

他兄弟，我想是吧。

his brother, I think it was.

我当时就说，嗨。

I was like, hello.

你懂的，我现在能回家了吗？

You know, can I get home now?

我回到家，我妈说，大卫，电话一直响个不停。

And then I got home, and my mom was like, the phone's not stopped ringing, David.

天哪。

My god.

大卫，咱们再放点音乐吧，我觉得。

David, let's have some more music, I think.

这首是第五首？

What's this number five?

我意识到，我和我爸之间还有些没解决的事，你知道的，而且这些事可能永远都解决不了。

I realized that there's unfinished business with me and my dad, you know, and that that it will never be finished, really.

你明白吧？

You know?

我一直都在寻找关于这段关系的答案。

There's a there's a search for me about that relationship.

我知道是因为它时不时就会突然抓住我。

And I know that because every now and again, it hijacks me.

它总是在我毫无准备的时候冒出来。

It catches me off.

什么样的时刻？

What kind of moments?

比如，有时候我看电视、看书，或者像现在这样，听到这首歌，就连现在和我儿子、孙子在一起时，我都能体会到当父亲是什么感觉，那种血脉相连的感觉。

Well, sometimes when I'm watching TV or reading a book or like this, when I hear this song, even now with my own son and my grandson, you know, I can see it that what it's like to be a father and have a connection and stuff like that.

我确实会遗憾，因为我从来没和他有过真正成人的那种关系。

And I do, you know, I do miss the fact that I never had a an adult relationship with him.

但这首歌讲的是一个男人和他父亲的关系，而罗尼·莱恩，这位歌手，一直是我心中的英雄。

But this song is about this man's relationship with his father, and he's a real hero of mine, Ronnie Lane, debris.

罗尼·莱恩和德布里。

Ronnie Lane and Debra.

大卫，《一个夏天》大获成功后，你拿到了演员协会的会员资格，搬到了伦敦，进了RADA。

David, after the success of One Summer, you got your equity card and you moved to London where you went to RADA.

你在那儿感觉怎么样？

How did you get on there?

你觉得自己融入得了吗？

Did you feel like you fitted in?

在RADA，第一个主动来找我、说看过《一个夏天》并且特别友善的人，是雷·费恩斯。

But the first person who came up to me at RADA and sort of said they'd seen One Summer and they were really friendly was Ray Finds.

你知道吗，我以前从来没遇过像拉尔夫·费因斯这样的人。

And, you know, I'd never met anyone like Ralph Fiennes.

我以前只在电视上见过这种人，真的。

I didn't you know, that was I only seen people like that on the telly, you know.

他说话特别有教养，人也特别好，特别随和。

He spoke very posh and he was and he was such a and he is such a lovely man and was very friendly.

后来我发现，班上同学的背景真是五花八门。

And then I saw then amongst my fellow students that it was a real mixture of people.

那时候，像我这样的人也有，但也有不少上过公学、念过牛津剑桥的。

There was, you know, there was people like me, but there was people who'd been to public school and Oxford and Cambridge and all that.

大家聚在一起，完全是凭本事说话。

They were all meeting in the same place, and it was a meritocracy.

关键看你实际表现怎么样。

It was very much about what you did.

没人问过我A-Level成绩如何。

Nobody was asking me what my a levels were.

对。

Mhmm.

那种感觉对我来说特别自由。

And that was a real freedom for me.

所以你在RADA站稳了脚跟，学业上也很成功。

So you found your feet at RADA and was successful in your course.

你毕业后演的第一部戏叫什么？

Your first play after you left was called?

叫《WCPC》。

It was called WCPC.

对。

Yes.

又回到了利物浦剧院。

And it was back at the Liverpool Playhouse.

1986年。

1986.

所以我得

And so I had to

你笑是因为你姨妈和妈妈来看了这场戏。

I think you're laughing because your auntie and your mom came to see it.

所以我得

So I had to

这部戏讲的是警察在厕所里搭讪的事。

in this play, it was about policemen cottaging in toilets.

我当时是个年轻新人，剧中有一段是有个警察在厕所里对我动手动脚。

And I was this young recruit, and there was a bit where some one policeman sort of assaults me in a toilet.

接下来那段，我得打扮成《歌厅》里的丽莎·明奈利，唱一小段歌。

And then the next bit was I had to sort of dress up as Liza Minnelli from Cabaret and do a little song.

最后我还得脱掉衣服，和别的演员一起跳着舞，唱《YMCA》。

And then at the end, I had to strip off and dance around with the other actors singing YMCA.

我妈妈和

And, yeah, my mom and

我姑姑帕特来看了演出，我紧张得要命。

my auntie Pat came to see it, and I was dreading.

你猜怎么着？

To think?

演出完我见到我妈，她第一句话就说

So I met my mom afterwards, and the first thing she said

问我：你最近吃饭正常吗？

to me was she said, have you been eating properly?

就这样结束了。

And that was it.

我特别感谢她这么说，因为那真的太尴尬了。

Thanked her so much for that because it was, like, really embarrassing.

当时的情况是，

The way

有时候，有些事还是别提为好，对吧？

Sometimes it's just as well not to talk about things, isn't

确实如此。

It was.

但另一件让我印象特别深的事是，

But the other favorite thing

我脱衣服的时候，警察局长还特意跟我说：‘我裤子还穿着呢’，他还补充说，这裤子是警用的。

was when I stripped off, the head of the police force had to say to me, I still have my underpants on, and he had to say, and the underpants, they're police issue.

然后我就把裤子脱了，手一直放在指定的位置。

And then I take them off and keep my hands in a certain place.

但有一晚，我正要开口，台下三个观众抢先说了出来。

But then one night, was just about to say it, and three guys in the audience said it.

把裤子递给我。

Hand me on the pants.

那是警用的。

They're place issue.

打那以后，就再也没人提了。

And that was it from then on.

观众们经常在台下大声喊话，所以……

People used to shout out at the audience, so

那可真有点怪。

that was quite weird.

不过，后来我回了利物浦，在剧院演那出戏，那可是我眼里最体面的剧场了。

But, yeah, it was going back to Liverpool and doing that play at the Playhouse, which was, you the posh theater as far as I was concerned.

那段时间特别棒，我玩得非常开心。

That was really great and I had a great time doing that.

从那以后，我就彻底开干了。

And then I was off and running really.

对。

Mhmm.

没过多久，我就去了皇家莎士比亚剧团，那段日子特别棒。

You know, it was not long after that, I went to the RSC and had a wonderful time.

你从一开始就一直稳定地工作，但好像从来都没真正感到安心。

You've worked very consistently since the beginning, but I think never really felt secure.

你从来没法放松下来，告诉自己：‘哦，这就是我了。’

Like, you've never been able to relax into thinking, oh, I'm, you know, this is me.

我现在挺好的。

I'm fine now.

你曾经说过，你其实挺爱那种你嘴上抱怨的不安全感。

You once said, there's something I must love about the insecurity I profess to hate.

这说明你对自己挺了解的。

Which sounds like you sound like you know yourself pretty well.

你弄明白那到底是什么了吗？

Have you figured out what it is?

就是吧，总觉得明天一切可能就结束了，这种感觉就像把所有鸡蛋放在一个篮子里，所以你才更认真对待它。

Well, there's something about, yeah, that it could all stop tomorrow, which it's those eggs in the basket thing that you treat it seriously.

我从不觉得这一切是理所当然的。

I don't take it for granted.

我合作过的优秀演员不少，可有些人突然就没了戏拍，生活也变了，再也接不到想演的角色了。

You know, there's great actors I've worked with, and it has suddenly stopped for them, you know, or something has changed, and they they don't get the work they want anymore.

所以我尽量脚踏实地，好好享受当下，珍惜每一天。

So I try to, a, try to keep my head where my feet are and sort of enjoy the day, enjoy it right now.

不过，劳伦，这还挺有意思的。

It's quite interesting, though, Lauren,

因为第一次被邀请上这个节目时，我头一回觉得：哦，也许我确实做成了点什么。

because being asked to be on this show was the first time in my life where I thought, oh, maybe I've done that's fine.

也许我做的这些，值了。

Maybe I've done something worth it.

你有没有那种突然意识到的时候，根本想不到会这样？

You It was like that thing of suddenly going, you didn't never guess what?

我上了《荒岛唱片》这个节目。

I'm on desert island disks.

这太了不起了。

That's amazing.

别人都在赶着去参加各种节目，怎么就你还没动静？

Whereas everybody else has gone to coursiers because why aren't you done already?

那时候好像有什么类似……

There was some sort of, like, you

你知道，好像要授勋似的，但我反而喜欢这种不安全感。

know, knighthood going on there, but I was I must like the insecurity.

还有就是，你要真正掌握主动权，是你在驾驭它，而不是它在操控你。

And and the and the other thing about that is then taking ownership of it, that actually you're playing it, it's not playing you.

对我来说最重要的是，我得从一个角度出发：这是我自己的选择。

And that's what's really important for me is that I have to start from the point of view where I go, I chose this.

这很有趣，也很有激情，还带着点风险。

And it's fun, and it's buzzy, and it's risky.

你知道的。

You know?

我后来明白了一点，当我紧张的时候，其实是因为我在乎，这让我挺高兴的。

There's no the other thing I came to learn is that I I'm I'm pleased when I'm nervous because I care.

你知道的。

You know?

如果没什么可输的，那还做它干嘛？

If I if there's nothing at risk, why why do it?

你知道的。

You know?

我得觉得有东西在赌注上，这才值得去做。

That I have to be something needs to be at stake.

你知道的。

You know?

你可以去追求这种感觉。

You can chase that.

这种感觉可能会让人上瘾，你总想再体验那种心跳加速的刺激，但你也知道，搞不好会摔个大跟头。

That can be addictive in a way that you're trying to sort of get this feeling of this frisson of excitement that you could, you know, you could fall flat on your face.

大卫，我们来安排一下音乐时间吧。

David, let's make some time for the music.

今天这已经是你的第六首歌了。

It's your sixth choice today.

接下来要听什么？

What are we gonna hear next?

我兄弟姐妹们都有很大的唱片收藏。

My brothers and sister, they would have big record collections.

你知道的。

You know?

这张唱片，我总在我哥哥的房间里看到。

And this record, I'd see in my brother's room.

我也会在我妹妹的房间里看到这张唱片。

I'd see in my sister's room.

我表兄弟们会放这张唱片来听。

I'd see in my cousins would play it.

我有个表弟是音乐人，他经常放这张专辑里的歌。

One of my cousins is a musician, and he would play stuff off this album.

我买的是磁带版。

I bought it in cassette.

我买的是黑胶专辑。

I bought it an album.

我买的是CD版。

I bought it on CD.

我也下载过。

I've downloaded it.

这些我都试过。

All those things.

这首歌一直伴随着我一辈子。

It stayed with me all my life.

这张专辑是乔尼·米切尔的《Blue》，这首歌叫《River》。

The album is Blue by Joni Mitchell, and this track is River.

你为什么偏偏选了《River》这首歌？

Why have you gone for River specifically?

它真的让我特别心碎。

It's just something that breaks my heart.

我特别喜欢这首歌。

I love it.

我特别喜欢它传达的那种情感。

I love the sentiment of it.

她的歌词一向都很有诗意，但这首最让我念念不忘。

I think the way she sort of the lyricism of it is just like all of her stuff, but it's the one that sticks in my mind most.

乔尼·米切尔和《River》。

Johnny Mitchell and River.

大卫·莫里西，你演的每一个角色都全情投入。

David Morrissey, you've always been committed to whatever part you've played.

我读到过，你出演《俱乐部》里的警察时，哪怕刚做完阑尾炎手术，也坚持回剧组工作。

I read that when you were cast as a policeman in Clubland, you actually insisted on returning to work after being operated on for a burst appendix.

现在回头看看，你有没有觉得当时太拼了，其实该更注意自己的健康？

When you look back on that now, do you ever think you were a bit too all in and that you could have looked after your health a bit more?

我去了医院。

I went to the hospital.

我在急诊室等了几个小时，护士说只是胀气，让我回家休息。

I was in A and E for hours, and the nurse said to me, it's wind.

回家吧。

Just go home.

好的。

Okay.

我回家后疼得受不了，只好叫了救护车，送去医院紧急手术。醒来后，编剧正坐在床边，跟我说：别担心，我们已经找别人顶替你了。而这个人，还是我朋友。

Went home and then I was in agony and I phoned an ambulance and they took me in and it was an emergency operation appendix and I woke up and the writer was sitting at the bedside and he said, it's okay, we've cast someone else and this someone else, knew it was a friend of mine.

所以我联系了他。

So I got in touch with him.

他来看我，我就说，不行。

He came to see me and I said, no.

我能挺住。

I'll be fine.

我能挺住。

I'll be fine.

别担心。

Don't worry.

前两场戏我真得坐着拍。

And I literally I have to sit down in the first two scenes.

就只是个采访的场景。

It's just an interview scene.

我能挺住。

I'll be fine.

我会没事的。

I'll be fine.

我带着缝线去拍了，那工作我不能丢。

And I went and I did it with my stitches in, and I wasn't gonna lose that job.

像这样的事，我都逼着自己去做。

So things like that, I have pushed myself.

但这里面其实有两方面，对吧？

But there's two things there, isn't there?

一方面是逼自己，另一方面是逼自己时周围人所承受的后果。

There's pushing yourself, and then there's the consequences of the people around you with you pushing yourself.

我做过一些需要离家的工作，意味着我错过了本该在的地方，这确实是我有时会后悔的代价。

I have done jobs that has taken me away from home, that have meant that I'm absent rather than be where arguably I should have been, and so that's that's been a trade off that sometimes I regret.

你之前也提到，近几年你的状况变了，因为你开始在不同的角色里，尤其是在喜剧里，找到了你一直追求的真实感，比如为BBC拍《爸爸的问题》，这部剧对你来说非常成功。

You have also said that, you know, you've things have changed in recent years for you because you started finding the authenticity that you were looking for in roles in different places and in comedy, you know, being able to do something like Daddy Issues for the BBC, which has been a big success for you.

这其实挺有意思的，之前提到迈克尔·布莱恩的时候，我就想当演员，而我最想做到的就是真实。

It's really interesting there, because talking about Michael Bryan before and stuff, I wanted to be an actor, and the thing I wanted to be was I wanted to be authentic.

对我来说，真实感总是在那些糟糕的事情里。

And for me, what that was was authenticity was always in the bad stuff.

总是在最底层。

It was always in the gutter.

总是在痛苦中。

It was always in pain.

总是在压力、心碎，还有类似的东西里。

It was always in stress and broken hearts and stuff like that.

它从来不可能出现在快乐或爱里。

It could never be in joy or love.

它不能是轻浮的。

It couldn't be frivolous.

那种东西对我来说不真实。

That was not authentic for me.

所以我花了多年时间追求这种真实感，结果就是撞南墙，一直过得不开心。

And so I spent years pursuing this authenticness, which was banging my head against a brick wall and being miserable, basically.

我觉得，真正的表演就是像德尼罗那样，一头撞在牢房墙上，那才叫演戏。

I felt that that's where it was, you know, someone like De Niro banging his head against the the cell wall, that was acting.

后来，通过戒酒之类的事情，我突然明白，你也可以真实地享受乐趣。

And then I suddenly, through sobriety and stuff, I suddenly realized that you can be authentic and have fun.

你可以拥有快乐。

You can have joy.

你可以拥有爱。

You can have love.

你可以建立连接。

You can have connection.

这些和别的东西一样真实。

That's just as authentic as anything else.

我之前搞混了

And I got confused in

这一点。

that.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以当《Daddy Issues》这部作品出现时，我终于能享受其中了。

And so when Daddy Issues came along, I was able to have fun.

该干活还是得干，一点没少干。

Still sort of go to work, not work any less.

你知道的。

You know?

活儿照样难做，但做起来心里是开心的，尤其是能让观众笑出来。

It was still hard work to do and but actually have joy in doing the job itself, making people laugh.

你知道的。

You know?

现在我偶尔看剪辑的时候就明白了。

I see it now when the edit sometimes.

我能看出来，他们总是在我和艾米·刘易斯快要笑场前把镜头切走了，因为我们动不动就笑场。

I can see that they've had to cut away from me and Amy Lewis just before we crack up, you know, because we crack up all the time.

喜剧一直是我生活的一部分。

So comedy has been part of my life.

但作为年轻演员的很长一段时间里，我一直觉得，只有通过痛苦和悲伤才能展现真实。

But for such a long time as a young actor, I felt that you could only get truth through misery and pain.

大卫，再来点音乐吧。

Let's have some more music, David.

今天这是你的倒数第二张专辑了。

It's your penultimate disc today.

接下来要听什么？

What are we gonna hear?

所以我在岛上一定要做的一件事，当然是跳舞。

So one of the things I really need to do on the island, obviously, is is dance.

我真的很喜欢跳舞。

I mean, I love dancing.

我喜欢爸爸式跳舞，现在嘛，是爷爷式跳舞了。

I mean, I love dad dancing, obviously, but granddad dancing now.

你想想，咱们之前聊过的那些利物浦的乐队，比如回声与兔人、泪滴爆炸，我那时候就在想这些事。

You know, all those bands we were talking about before in Liverpool with the Echo and the Bunny Man and Teardrop Explodes, I was thinking of those things.

但那时候还有另一支乐队，有人告诉我他们来自利物浦时，我简直不敢相信。

But there was another band around that I was just I couldn't believe were from Liverpool when someone told me.

我在《Top of the Pops》上看到他们，还以为他们是费城的呢。

I saw them on top of the bops, and I thought they were from Philadelphia or something.

他们真的特别棒。

They were just great.

后来我听了《The Marathon》这些歌，这才算真正感受到什么叫地道。

And then I saw The Marathon and stuff, and this is the real thing.

你对我来说是

You to me are

真正的经典，而你对我来说就是一切。

The Real Thing and You to Me are everything.

所以

So

我觉得The Real Thing的主唱克里斯·阿穆尔是唯一一个既拿过冠军单曲又赢过狗展的人。

I think Chris Amour, who is the lead singer of The Real Thing, holds the record as the only person to have a number one hit and wing Crofts.

他的奖杯柜可真是相当丰富。

Is a strong, strong trophy cabinet

就在那儿。

right there.

没错。

That's it.

你知道他赢的是什么犬种吗？

Do you know what breed he won?

是的。

Yeah.

好像是阿富汗猎犬，我记得。

It was an Afghan hound, I think.

他可能赢过两次。

He might have won it twice.

阿富汗猎犬看起来真像The Real Thing那支乐队的感觉。

An Afghan hound looks like the real thing sound.

太完美了。

Perfect.

简直完美。

Perfect.

大卫·莫里西，你马上就要被流放到荒岛上了。

So David Morrissey, it is almost time to cast you away on the desert island.

我听说你经常出差，家里一直备着一个打包好的行李箱，随时能走。

I read that you travel so much that you actually keep a bag packed at home, ready to go.

我其实有几抽屉专门放旅行用品。

I have a set of drawers actually which have my sort of travel stuff in.

是的。

Yeah.

所以要是得紧急出发，我这些东西都在那儿，随时能拿。

So if I need to go, there's if I need to go quickly, I have that stuff there.

明白吧？

Know?

好的。

Okay.

所以我觉得你很快就能适应荒岛生活。

So so I think you'll adapt quite quickly to life as a castaway.

你对此感觉怎么样？

How do you feel about it?

你觉得你能应付得来吗？

How do you think you'll get on?

独处对我来说从来不是问题。

Isolation's never been a problem for me.

我其实还挺期待的。

I'm sort of excited about it.

我想是的，没错。

I do think, oh, yes.

能有点自己的时间，那真不错。

That'd be great to have a bit of time.

但我知道，我会想念别人，也会想念原来的生活。

But I know that I will miss people, and I'll miss life.

我肯定会想念工作，但更放不下的是人。

I'll it'll have to be I'll certainly miss work, but I'll miss people as well.

所以我觉得，我可能没那么容易适应。

So I don't think I'll get on that well.

我不太擅长动手做事。

I'm not that practical.

好吧。

Okay.

说实话，我不是那种会自己动手的人，也不算能干。

You know, I'm not DIYer me or a stranger.

那种活儿，我真的做不来。

You know, I'm not able to do things like that.

那肯定挺难的。

So that's gonna be tough.

但我觉得一开始会特别享受，过一阵子可能就有点腻了。

But I think I'll love it for a bit, and then I think I might just have a little crush.

你希望是哪种岛？

What kind of island are you hoping for?

你想要什么样的？

What are you

阳光、沙滩。

Oh, sun sand.

对。

Yeah.

阳光沙滩，再有个淡水湖，里面鱼特别多，周围到处都是水果，蔬菜也已经长好了，那种感觉，还得有个乐购超市，诸如此类的东西。

Sun and sand with a freshwater sort of lake, which has loads of fish in it, and then, you know, all that stuff, just sort of fruit fruit around the place, maybe some veg already growing there, that type of stuff, and a Sainsbury's, you know, things like that.

听起来你早就想好了。

It sounds like you've thought about it already.

看来你已经做过一些研究了。

It sounds like you've started your research.

我确实一直在考虑这件事。

I have been thinking about it.

对。

Yeah.

不过呢。

But yeah.

肯定是阳光和沙滩。

Definitely sun and sand.

对。

Yeah.

我就想要那样的地方。

That that that's what I want.

好的。

Alright.

那你马上就要知道了。

Well, you're about to find out.

在送你走之前，大卫，我们再给你一张光盘。

We'll let you have one more disc before we send you away, David.

你选哪一张？

What's it gonna be?

这位艺术家，我以前就听过他的音乐，特别喜欢。

So this is an artist who I knew his music and loved it.

后来我看了关于他的纪录片，真的让我特别感动。

And then I saw a documentary about him, which really I found very, very moving.

他这一生一直深受心理健康问题的困扰，虽然现在已经不在了。

He's someone who's struggled with, you know, he's no longer with us, but struggled with mental health crisis in his life.

纪录片里拍到他的家人如何面对这一切，尤其是他父母，对他们来说真的特别不容易，但他们做得特别好。

The documentary shows his family dealing with that, particularly his mom and dad, who are so amazing with him.

他的作品，不管是歌词还是绘画，都特别有魅力，我真的很被他吸引。

But his work, both his songwriting and his his artwork, he's all quite an interesting artist as well, I really am drawn to.

但他的作品有一种朴素感，这种朴素其实并不简单。

But there's a simplicity about his work, which obviously isn't simple.

他能精准地捕捉一种情绪和感觉。

It's just the way that he encapsulates a mood and a and a feeling.

表面上看很原始，但实际上他的表达特别开放、真实、坦诚。

It feels rudimentary, but actually, there's something so open, raw, and honest about him.

这部纪录片叫《恶魔与丹尼尔·约翰斯顿》，名字太棒了。

The film is called The Devil and Daniel Johnston, which is amazing.

这是他的一首歌，我觉得它既充满希望，也带着行动的力量。

And this is his track, which I think is such a track of hope, but also of action.

你得主动去争取，真爱最终一定会找到你。

You have to be active for this to happen, and it is true love will find you in the end.

真爱最终一定会找到你。

True love will find you in the end.

你会知道，最后和你在一起的是哪个朋友。

You'll find out just who with your friend.

别难过，我知道你一定能做到。

Don't be sad, I know you will.

丹尼尔·约翰斯顿和《真爱终将找到你》。

Daniel Johnston and True Love Will Find You in the End.

大卫·莫瑞森，现在我要把你放逐到你的荒岛上。

So David Morrissey, I'm going to cast you away to your desert island.

我会给你一些书。

I'll give you the books.

当然，你可以带《圣经》、莎士比亚全集，再选一本其他书。

Of course, you can have the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one other book.

你会选哪一本？

What's that gonna be?

嗯，这个问题真难选，莱斯利。

Well, yeah, it's it's such a hard one, Lesley.

我经常回头翻阅的书是格雷厄姆·格林的《权力与荣耀》。

I mean, the book I come back to a lot is The Power and the Glory by Graham Greene.

不过考虑到我有这么多时间，我觉得我会选查尔斯·狄更斯的全集。

But I think just for size of time I have, the amount of time I have, I think I will take the complete works of Charles Dickens.

好的。

Okay.

那你喜欢狄更斯的什么地方？

And what is it that you love about Dickens?

我喜欢他很幽默。

I like the fact that he's funny.

我的意思是，他的幽默感真的特别棒。

I mean, I do like that, you know, his humor is amazing.

但我更喜欢他身上那种人性的温度。

But I also like his humanity.

还有就是，他的故事特别有代入感，一读就陷进去了。

And I also like the fact that his stories are you just fall into them.

而且我还没读完他所有作品，所以我很期待接下来的阅读。

And there's a lot I haven't read, so I'll be looking forward to that.

你也可以选一件奢侈品。

You can also have a luxury item.

你想要什么？

What would you like?

我不确定你会不会真的给我这个。

So I don't know whether you're gonna give me this.

那咱们看看吧。

Oh, let's find out.

我其实特别想要一个相册，算是个组合吧。

So what I'd really like is it's a bit of a combination, but it's a photograph album.

对。

Mhmm.

一个超大的相册，里面全是对我重要的人的照片——我父母、家人、朋友，还有同事。

A massive photograph album with pictures of people who have meant things in my life, my family, you know, my mom and dad, all that, and friends and and and colleagues.

我还希望最后留很多空白页，再配一支用不完的笔，因为我一直有写日记的习惯。

But I'd also like a lot of blank pages at the end and a never ending pen because one of the things I do all the time is journal.

我从十四岁就开始写日记，这个过程对我而言特别有疗愈作用，真的很棒。

I've been journaling since I was about 14, and I find that process of doing that is really therapeutic for me and wonderful.

我把所有心事都写下来，每天都这么做。

I get it all out, and I do it all the time.

我到处都放着笔记本。

I've got notepads everywhere.

所以我特别想要这样的东西。

So I'd like to do that.

我觉得这真是个很棒的奢侈礼物。

Well, I think that would be a lovely luxury.

当然了。

Of course.

这是你的了。

It's yours.

太好了。

Great.