喜剧演员哈里·希尔

BBC之声 音乐广播 播客 大家好，我是劳伦·拉弗恩，这里是BBC广播四台的《荒岛唱片》播客。每周，我都会邀请嘉宾选择八首曲目、一本书和一件奢侈品，作为他们流落荒岛时的随身物品。由于版权原因，节目中的音乐比原版广播中的要短，但你可以在BBC之声上找到音乐片段更长的版本。听众还能比其他用户提前28天收听节目。

BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcasts Hello. I'm Lauren Laverne, this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio four. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes twenty eight days earlier than everyone else.

希望您喜欢收听。本周的荒岛嘉宾是喜剧演员、作家兼播音员哈里·希尔。他凭借《你被整了》《哈里·希尔的外星趣味胶囊》《少年烘焙大赛》以及热门剧集《电视打嗝》等节目，成为黄金时段电视上最受欢迎的喜剧明星之一。在十一年的时间里，他赢得了三项英国电影学院奖、三项皇家电视学会奖、一座金玫瑰奖以及七项英国喜剧奖。他对英国流行文化的荒诞模仿既出人意料又妙趣横生。

I hope you enjoy listening. My castaway this week is the comedian, writer, and broadcaster Harry Hill. He's carved out a career as one of the most popular comics on prime time TV with shows like You've Been Framed, Harry Hill's Alien Fun Capsule, Junior Bake Off, and the hit series TV Burp. Over the course of eleven years, it won three BAFTAs, three Royal Television Society Awards, a Rose Door, and seven British Comedy Awards. His surreal send ups of British pop culture are as unpredictable as they are delightful.

他的一档节目每周都会播放由“迪莉娅·史密斯组合”演绎的音乐片段——这个女子演唱团体打扮成电视厨师的模样，翻唱莫里西的歌曲。另一档节目则恶搞了《X音素》，推出以编织为主题的《K因素》，最终由名为“鸭子彼得”的角色夺冠。还有一次，他策划了《东区人》中菲尔·米切尔与斑点先生的对决，看谁更擅长戏剧性登场。这些与他最初作为医生的职业生涯截然不同。1990年他放下听诊器，仅两年后就凭借爱丁堡边缘艺术节的演出获得佩里尔奖。

One of his shows played out each week on a musical number by the Delia Smiths, a female singing group dressed as the TV cook covering songs by Morrissey. Another featured the K Factor, an X Factor spoof about knitting, which was eventually won by a character called Peter the Duck. Then there was the time he staged a fight between EastEnders Phil Mitchell and Mr Blobby to establish which of them was better at making a dramatic entrance. It's all a world away from his first career as a doctor. He hung up his stethoscope in 1990 and won the Perrier Award for his Edinburgh Fringe show just two years later.

他说：“创作优秀的原创笑料真的很难，但成功时的感觉妙不可言。你会想挥拳庆祝，或者冲到街上把笑话讲给遇到的第一个人听。”哈里·希尔，欢迎来到《荒岛唱片》。

He says, Writing good original gags is really hard, but when it works it's a fabulous feeling. You want to punch the air or run out into the street and tell the joke to the first person you see. Harry Hale, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

非常感谢，劳伦。其实《K因素》是我唯一被ITV找过麻烦的节目。

Thank you very much, Lauren. It's actually that K factor is the only thing I ever got in trouble with ITV ever.

哦真的吗？为什么？他们不喜欢编织？

Oh really? Why? We Don't like knitting?

我们把西蒙·考威尔的头剪下来织进了毛衣。然后他们派人来警告了我们。

We cut the head off and knitted Simon Cowell. And they sent someone down to have a word with us.

公平地说，这确实有点过火。至少你们可以把它缝回去。跟我聊聊想到绝妙点子时的感觉吧——当笑话奏效时，

Well, it does sound a bit strong to be fair. At least you could stitch it back on. Talk me through that feeling of coming up with a really good idea. When a joke works,

这个嘛，我钟爱笑话。我最喜欢的类型是铺垫-笑点式，这其实挺老派的。真相是你永远无法预知。有时候你立刻就能确定，但十有八九你心里没底。纵观历史，真正存在的笑话类型其实寥寥无几。

Well, how do you love jokes. My favourite type of joke is set up punchline, which is quite old fashioned really. The truth is you never know. I mean sometimes you really know straight away, but nine times out of 10 you don't know. If you look back over history there are only a few jokes really, types of joke.

关键是如何重新演绎它们。我对笑话的形式非常着迷——虽然多数人对此不感兴趣——就是其结构本身以及如何颠覆它。所以我经常和我的腹语木偶加里合作，他是我第一次婚姻中的儿子加里。

It's just a way of reinventing them. I'm really interested in the form of jokes. I'm sure this isn't of interest to most people but just the form of it and how you can subvert that. So I do a lot of stuff with my ventriloquist dummy Gary, my son Gary from my first marriage.

你好，宝贝！

Hello, baby!

你好，加里！稍等一下，我马上过来！

Hello, Gary! Yes, I'll be with you in a sec!

公平地说，因为这是广播节目，通常加里表演时，你的嘴唇也会跟着动。

And it would be fair to say, as this is radio, that usually when Gary is performing, your lips move as well.

我必须和加里在一起。显然我不能代表加里发言，但我必须在那里支持他。这些都是我成长过程中熟悉的老套桥段。我在七十年代长大，那时电视上还充斥着这些——音乐剧或综艺节目遗留下来的东西。

I have to be with Gary. Obviously I can't speak for Gary, but I have to be there with Gary to support him largely. So there's all these old fashioned tropes I grew up on. I grew up in the seventies, so all this stuff was still on TV. Remnants from the musicals or the variety days.

我想这就是我的兴趣所在。作为哈里·希尔的好处是，我几乎可以肆无忌惮地做任何滑稽行为。

And that's my interest, I suppose. And the great thing about being Harry Hill is that I can get away with pretty much any silly behaviour.

而且你还能邀请其他人一起玩闹，对吧？观众来看你的现场演出或节目，就是冲着这种氛围。这种互动一定让你特别开心，你和观众之间的默契肯定很棒。

Well, and also that you get to invite other people to do that, right? And to be playful. You know, come to see you live or they watch one of your programmes because they're up for that. And that must actually be really a particular joy. It must be a nice dynamic between you and Well, your

当效果好的时候确实很刺激。但即使从业再久的喜剧演员，也不可能觉得每个瞬间都有趣。你必须全神贯注——虽然偶尔也会松懈。我刚结束了75场巡演。

it's thrilling, you know, when it works. But I mean there's still no comic, however long you've been doing it for, necessarily finds every moment fun. You know, it is you've got to be really on top of it. I mean, you relax at times. You know, I've just come off a sort of 70 I've just done 75 dates on a tour.

见鬼。你以为到第74场就该驾轻就熟了，但仍有那种‘糟了，观众走神了’或‘现在该怎么办’的时刻。

Bloody. And you'd think by date '74, you would have got the hang of it, but there's still moments where you're kind of thinking, oh no, I'm losing them, or, you know, what do I do now?

那么哈里，你今天是怎么挑选音乐的？

So Harry, how did you go about selecting your music today?

我尽量不过度思考，但今早看到歌单时还是想：天啊，这完全不是我的初衷。现在改还来得及吗？不过最终选了能唤起地点和人物回忆的曲子。

I tried not to overthink it, but then I woke up this morning and I thought, look at this list. I mean, this is like this is never my intention. Is it too late to change it? But I tried to go with stuff that reminds me of places and people, I guess.

咱们开始吧。第一张唱片，哈里·希尔，你给我们带来了什么？

Let's get stuck in. Disc number one, what have you got for us, Harry Hill?

嗯，要知道，这是我买的第一张单曲唱片，真希望我能说它很前卫，实际上它是本尼·希尔的《厄尼，西部最快的牛奶工》。

Well, know, this is the first single I ever bought and I wish I could say it was something edgy, in fact it's Ernie, the fastest movement in the West by Benny Hill.

听到这首歌会让你回想起什么？

Where does it take you back to when you hear it?

那时我七岁。这首歌当时在电台不停播放，连续几周排名第一。歌曲讲的是一个送奶工爱上女孩的故事，但他的情敌是切丁顿镇一个开面包车、体重两吨的泰德。最后他在...呃，真正致命的是块过期猪肉派砸中眼睛才送了命。

Well, I was seven. I mean it was played on the radio all the time. Was number one for weeks. The song is a little story about a Milkman who falls in love with a girl but has a love rival that's a two tonne Ted from Cheddington who drove the Baker's van. And he dies in a hail of well the actual killer blow is a stale pork pie that catches him in the eye and only bit the dust.

但今早我在想，这真能致命吗？

But I was thinking this morning, would that kill you?

只有一个办法能验证！

There's only one way to find out!

什么办法？

What would that be?

不停地扔馅饼！找最过期的馅饼来扔！

Just keep throwing the pies! Find the staleest pies as you can!

那时候很有趣。七十年代流行这种搞笑歌曲，排行榜上总有些朗朗上口的傻气歌曲，通常是当时喜剧演员唱的，比如汤米·库珀、艾德·邦。我倒希望现在还能有这样的歌，你们说呢？

So, was fun. Was a thing in the seventies which was this thing for the novelty song. In the charts, at any one time, there was some silly song that was very catchy and it was often by a comedian of the day, you know, like Tommy Cooper, Ed Bunn, and I kind of wish that still happened a bit, You know?

你能听见他们飞奔时脚掌踏地的咚咚声，车轮旋转的咔嗒声。他疾驰进市场街，胸前别着徽章。他叫厄尼，驾驶着西部最快的牛奶车。厄尼爱上了一位名叫苏的寡妇，她独居在百合巷22号。

You could hear that your feet pound as they raced across the ground, and the clatter of the wheels as they spun round and round. And he galloped into Market Street, his badge upon his chest. His name was Ernie, and he drove the fastest milk cart in the West. Now Ernie loved a widow, a lady known as Sue. She lived all alone in Lily Lane at Number 22.

人们说她配他绰绰有余。她性感、高傲又时髦。但厄尼每周都要去她那喝三次热可可。

They said she was too good for him. She was horny, proud and chic. But Ernie got his cocoa there three times every week.

哈里·希尔正跟着本尼·希尔的《西部最快送奶工厄尼》逐句哼唱。那么哈里，让我们回到你的起点，大约是你初次发现喜剧魅力的时期。是的，你1964年出生于萨里，是四个孩子中的老二，后来同父异母的妹妹加入变成五口之家。在这样一个大家庭里成长，你最享受的是什么？

Harry Hill singing along with every word to Ernie, the fastest milkman in the West by Benny Hill. So Harry, let's go back to the beginning for you, around about the time that you first discovered comedy. Yeah. You were born in Surrey, 1964, the second of four kids, becoming five when your half sister came along. What did you enjoy about growing up in a big family like that?

这个嘛，其实我不确定自己是否喜欢大家庭生活。或许我更希望拥有更多...你知道的，大家庭的问题在于永远没有隐私。我们住在一栋相对狭小的房子里，位于肯特郡某个六十年代建的大型乡村住宅区。在大家庭里你根本躲不开噪音。我只记得当时家里并不宽裕。

Well, I mean, I'm not sure I did like being in a big family. I probably would have preferred to have had a bit more, you know The thing about being in a big family is you can never get any privacy. It was a relatively small house, you know, on this big sort of sixties housing estate out in rural I mean, grew up in Kent. The thing with a big family is you just can't get away from the noise. I just remember there wasn't a lot of spare money.

大家庭生活的另一面是这种幽默感，像个小帮派，大家可以联合起来捉弄人。要是我姐姐们交了男朋友，我们就会集体调侃他。关于伊恩的玩笑特别多——我想所有家庭都这样——但我们确实感觉是个整体。我弟弟比我小很多，大概四五岁，特别烦人。记得我们经常打架，在地上滚作一团。

The other part of being in a big family is this sense of humour, this kind of gang, where you can all basically gang up on someone. If my sisters had a boyfriend, we'd all just pick on him. There's lot of Ian jokes I guess that's true of all families we did feel like a unit. My brother was a lot younger than me, maybe four or five years younger than me, and he was very annoying. I remember we used to have physical fights, we used to roll around on the floor.

七十年代特别流行挠痒痒。不知道现在人们还玩不玩这个。

Tickling was very big in the in the seventies. I don't know if people still tickled each other.

超级流行！我记得八十年代这游戏特别火。

It was massive. I remember from the eighties, I remember it being huge

是吧？要不要做个名人挠痒痒秀？

Yeah. As about a show celebrity tickling?

噢，那肯定超有意思。

Oh, that would be so good.

是吗？用羽毛绑在棍子头上那种？

Yeah? Feather on the end of a stick or something.

你刚才提到家境不宽裕，我知道电视在那时是重要娱乐，算是你们家的主要休闲活动对吧？

And I know that given that there wasn't a lot of money around, as you just mentioned, TV was a big thing. That was your family's leisure activity, wasn't it?

嗯，我想，那扇通往世界的窗口。那就是你了解事物的方式。

Well, was, I think, that window on the world. That's how you found out about things.

你当时在看什么节目？

What were you watching?

《神秘博士》，我们会看布鲁斯·福赛斯的《世代游戏》，我超爱那个节目。很多人可能觉得布鲁斯很老派，但实际上我认为他的表演方式非常前卫。他不是上来就讲段子，而是与观众互动，与镜头配合。他会突然转向镜头直视家里的你。我爸——继父总是坚持要看晚上9点的新闻，这特别烦人，因为BBC二台9点档全是精彩节目，比如《蒙提·派森》和斯派克·米利根的《Q系列》。

Doctor Who, we'd watch Bruce Forsyth's Generation Game, which I just loved. A lot of people might look at Bruce and think he's quite old fashioned, but actually I think what he was doing was very modern. He didn't come on and tell gags, he worked with the crowd, worked with the cameras. He would do that thing where he would turn to the camera and look directly at you at home. Dad always wanted to watch, my stepfather always wanted to watch the news at 09:00 and that was really annoying because on BBC Two at 09:00 were all the interesting programmes Monty Python and Spike Milligan's Q series.

我记得当时看着节目就想：没错，他是在对我说话，他在告诉我‘这就是他需要的’。就像有些人从音乐中获得共鸣那样。

I remember watching it and thinking, Yeah, he's talking to me, he's saying to me, this is what he needs.' You know, it's like that. It was sort of like some people get with music.

一种觉醒。

An awakening.

正是如此。

Exactly.

而且他和你一样有种叛逆精神。我是说，所以他——

And he had that anarchic spirit that you have. Mean, so he was

其实...我并没有那种特质。真的没有。

Well, someone actually, don't really have that. I don't have that.

但你的表演里有这种气质。

But it's in your act.

那是表演的一部分。我装出来的。但我觉得他是真的具备这种特质。

It's part your act. I fake it. But I think he had it.

哈利，除了电视，我知道你妈妈简对你影响很大。跟我聊聊她吧。

Harry, as well as TV, I know that your mum Jan had a big influence on you. Tell me a bit about her.

她特别有趣。我是说她现在还健在，88岁了依然精神矍铄。她和我的继父托尼以前参加本地业余戏剧社团，最基础的业余戏剧团。他常写童话剧剧本，还经常反串演老妇人角色。

She's great fun. I mean she's still alive. She's 88 and she's still bright as a button. Yeah, so her and my stepfather Tony, they were in a local amateur dramatics group, stapleist amateur dramatics group. He used to write the panto and he would often be the dame in the panto.

其实这个人表面并不特别幽默。在我眼里他总是满面愁容。你知道吗，要是通勤的话他肯定赶首班车走，晚上七点才回来。喝点威士忌，吃完晚饭就窝在扶手椅里。我觉得他内心戏很足。

And this guy, actually, he was not outwardly hugely funny. To me, he always seemed a bit careworn. You know, would be on the first train out if he was a commuter and he'd come back about 07:00. He'd have his whiskey, he'd have his dinner, he'd sit down in his armchair. And I think there was a lot going on.

他娶我妈时接手了四个孩子。现在回想起来——当时没意识到——天啊，这男人真有担当。但后来我们去看他演童话剧，他就男扮女装演寡妇特温基。

He inherited four kids, you know, when he married my mum. And I always think, I I didn't think it the time, but now I think, wow, that's quite a guy to take that on. But then we would go and see him at the panther and he'd be dragged up and being widowed twanky.

完全变了个人。你妈妈演什么角色？考虑到...

Transformed. Yeah. What kind of roles did your mum get? Bearing in mind that

你说过仙女。仙女邦格尔，我也不知道那是啥。她现在偶尔还演这个。

you said that fairy. Fairy bungle, I don't know what that was. She still does a bit of that.

是吗？她...

Does she? She's

这个嘛她现在还能演

a Well she great still do her

只要你开口她肯定愿意演仙女邦格尔

fairy bungle if you ask her.

快给她打电话。妈！我妈总会说：要不要去逛商店？或者说你必须跟我去商店。我们就去立顿超市。

Get her on the phone. Mum! So my mum would say, Do you want to come down the shops? Or you're coming down the shops. We go down to Lipton.

路上，我们偶遇了几户之外的哈默太太，她就开始给她讲个故事。你知道的，就是些学校里发生的事或者当地的一些闲言碎语。然后我们再往前走一点，她又会碰到别人，接着又从头讲起这个故事。等我们走到Blipton's超市时，这个故事已经被她打磨得滴水不漏了。

On the way, we bump into Mrs. Harmer, a couple of doors down, and she'd start telling her a story. It was, you know, some story about something that happened at the school or some local bit of gossip. And then we'd walk on a bit further and she'd see someone else and then she'd start the story. By the time we got to Blipton's, the supermarket, she would have this story completely ironed out.

她就像有个紧凑的两分钟版本。

She would have like a tight two minutes.

对，没错。而且总会以一句妙语和'哒哒'作结。所以我想你潜移默化中就学会了这些。我是说，不知道这是否造就了现在的我。

Yeah, exactly. And it would end with a punchline and a da da. So, I guess you pick all this stuff up subliminally. I mean, I don't know whether that's why I am the way I am.

那你父亲基思呢？跟我说说他吧。

And what about your dad, Keith? Tell me about him.

嗯，他也参加业余戏剧表演，不过是在不同的剧团。我父母在我六岁左右离婚了。之后我和母亲及继父生活，每两周见一次生父。他会来接我们，就是那种监护权安排。

Well, was in the amateur dramatics as well, but not the same one. So my parents got divorced when I was about six, I think. So I grew up with my mom and stepfather and then I'd see my dad every two weeks. He'd come and pick us up. It was that thing, that custody thing.

这样是不是很难建立亲密关系？

Was it difficult to form a relationship because of that?

确实不利。离婚这事挺复杂的，尤其在那个年代，因为人们不常离婚。现在谁的父母都离过婚，要是没离反而少见。但那时候人们就是硬撑着

It didn't help. It's a tricky one, you know, divorce I think, particularly at that time because people didn't do it. I mean everyone's parents are divorced now. I mean if your parents aren't divorced, you're unusual. But back then, people just stuck it

熬着。你有感觉到吗？觉得这种情况有点奇怪？

out. And did you feel that? Did you feel like it was bit of an odd situation?

是啊，我不喜欢这样。虽然他们离婚后明显都更快乐了，但当时没人跟我谈心。从没人坐下来问我'你感觉怎么样'，完全没有这种交流。

Yeah, I didn't like it. I was quite happy for them to be divorced, you know, in that they were obviously both much happier. But it was a bit there weren't those sort of conversations. No one ever sat me down and said, How are you feeling? It are wasn't any of that.

不知道这样是好是坏，但人就是这样跌跌撞撞过来的，对吧？我也说不清。

And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but just kind of muddle through, don't you? I don't know.

好了，哈利。我们休息一下，再听点音乐。这是你今天选的第二首歌。接下来我们要听什么？为什么你要带着它？

Alright, Harry. Let's take a break for some more music. It's your second choice today. What are we going to hear next and Have why are you taking it with

《我有权利吗》由The Honeycombs演唱，是另一首轻松的小曲。我从一个杂货摊买了一大堆单曲唱片。要知道，70、80年代在肯特郡乡下，杂货摊很常见。我买的这堆唱片里就有The Honeycombs的这首歌。在医学院时，我和好友马特——他是我医学院时期最好的朋友，可惜已不在人世——经常一起听。

I the Right by The Honeycombs is another bit of froth. I bought a whole load of singles from a jumble set. Know, jumble setters were the thing in rural Kent in the 70s and 80s. And I bought this job lot of singles, one of which was Have I the Right by The Honeycombs. And when I was at medical school, me and my mate Matt, probably my best friend at medical school, was this guy Matt Brassock, who's sadly no longer with us.

他是个出色的钢琴手。那时候我们会去酒吧，很多酒吧还有钢琴，我们喝几杯后，他就会弹起钢琴，我来唱这首《我有权利吗》。

And he was a brilliant pianist. And in those days, we would go to the pub and most pubs, or a lot of pubs had a piano still, and we'd have a few drinks. And at some point, he would get on the piano, and I would sing Have I the Right by the Honeypins.

我有权利拥抱你吗？你知道我一直告诉你我们永远不分离。哦，我有权利吻你吗？你知道我会永远...

Have I the right to hold you? And you know I've always told you that we must never ever part. Oh, have I the right to kiss you? And you know I'll always

这种求爱方式挺含蓄的，对吧？'我有权利吻你吗？'

It's quite a coy way of asking someone else, isn't it? Have I the right to kiss you?

The Honeycombs的《我有权利吗》。哈利，小时候的你觉得自己快乐吗？

The honeycombs and have I the right? Harry Hill as a kid, would you describe yourself as happy?

非常快乐。我们住在住宅区，但后面就是田野，放学后就在田野里疯跑玩耍，直到妈妈喊我们回家喝茶。六个星期的暑假里，我们总有些小计划，比如在朋友亚当的棚屋里做科学实验，总想搞出点爆炸来。

Yeah, it was great fun. I mean, we were on this sort of housing estate but it backed onto fields and so we would go home from school, run over the fields and muck about, you know, and then my mum would call us in for our tea. Summer holidays, six weeks, she'd think, Great, here we go. And we'd always have some little plan, you know, like my friend Adam, had a shed where we would do science experiments, you know, and we started this. Were always trying to make something explode.

纯真的年代啊。不是为了什么伟大目标，纯粹出于兴趣。我们常做臭弹和烟雾弹，卖给学校其他孩子。

Innocent times. Weren't trying to further some cause. It was just for her own interests, you understand. So we used to make stink bombs and smoke bombs and stuff and we used to sell them to the other kids at school.

生意做得怎么样？你们的小小创业...

How did that go? Turn a little business that you

没错，'订书钉化学工业公司'。生意很红火，我们三人合伙——我、亚当和帕特里克。我和亚当算是研发主力，一个烟雾弹卖5便士，臭弹7便士，因为要用到瓶子。

were talking Yeah, Staplers Chemical Industries. Well, it was very popular. So there were three of us in Staplers Industries me, Adam and Patrick. And me and Adam were the kind of the brains behind it as far as the sort of making the produce. So a smoke bomb might set you back 5p, a stink bomb maybe 7p because there was a bottle involved.

帕特里克以前是负责销售的，这些事都归他管。过了一阵子他来找我们，我们当时就在问，钱去哪了？结果发现他一直让人赊账，根本没收到钱。实际上我们只赚了60便士。

And Patrick used to be the sales guy, he'd handle all that. And then he came to us after a while and said, we were sort of saying, Well where's the money? And it turned out that he had been letting the stuff go on tick. He wasn't taking the money. And so in fact we had made 60p.

所以我们决定结束生意。把钱分了，因为帕特里克压力太大，这样...呃，看起来

So we decided to wind up the business. We split the money because the pressure was getting to Patrick and that didn't Well, seem

当个年轻实业家不容易吧？你们那会儿应该也是，按我们想象，在70年代

it's difficult being a young industrialist, isn't it? You were also, as we would imagine, at the 70s

算不上CEO日记那种级别，不过确实。

Not exactly diary of a CEO, but yeah.

但在70年代的乡村童年里，你参加过幼童军吗？

But in this rural childhood of the 70s, were you a Cub Scout?

参加过。那时候挺

Yes. That was pretty

普遍的。

common back then.

对，其实我本来不想参加幼童军，后来还进了童子军。但自从加入后，我妈就不让我退出，现在回想起来，对她来说这大概算免费托儿服务吧。我人生第一次登台就是在幼童军童话剧里演寡妇唐琪。

Yes, I didn't really want to be a Cub Scout, and then I was a Scout, but once I joined, my mum wouldn't let me leave and I think probably in retrospect it was like free babysitting for her. And my first kind of attempt to, you know, on a stage was the Cub Panto, so I was widow Twanky.

哦，那可是个抢手角色。不过也算是继承你继父的衣钵了。

Oh, that's a plum role. Yeah. Following in your step dad's footsteps, though.

是啊，算是吧。我记得当时在台上讲段子，大家都在笑，我特别清楚地记得当时在想：你做这个很轻松，你很擅长这个。

Yeah, I guess I was. Yeah. And I remember doing it and being on, you know, doing these jokes and everyone laughing and I was thinking quite clearly remember thinking, you find this easy. You're good at this.

你那时多大？九岁。

How old were you? Nine.

是的。实际上我还被《肯特信使报》特别表扬过。

Yeah. And actually I was singled out for special praise in The Kent Messenger.

你还记得他们怎么说的吗？

Do you remember what they said?

毫无疑问是演出的明星。当时

Undoubtedly star of the show. When

你14岁时，记得吗，你继父在香港找到工作，全家都搬过去了。你当时感觉如何？

you were 14, think, your stepfather got a job in Hong Kong and you all moved there. How did you feel about it?

呃，我当场就哭了。简直不敢相信。我们当时正围着电视坐着，他下班回来说：我们要搬去香港了。我心里想着：不可能。记得当时查到那里有全球人口最密集的一平方英里区域。

Well, mean I burst into tears. I couldn't believe it. We were literally sat round the TV, he gets home from work and he says, We're moving to Hong Kong. And I was thinking, We're not. I remember finding out it had the most densely populated square mile in the world at that time.

我原本住在小村庄里。记得刚下飞机时，像雾一样潮湿，噪音不断，到处都是高楼大厦。我走下飞机时对自己说：你不会喜欢这里的。后来确实不喜欢。

I'm in a sort of little village. I remember just getting off the plane. It was like a fog, really humid noise, just loads of noise, great big high rise buildings. I remember stepping off the plane and just saying to myself You're not going to like this. And I didn't like it.

头半年我真的很不适应。

I really didn't like it for the first six months.

稍事休息后我们继续了解后续故事。现在请播放你的第三张唱片，卡丽·希尔。

Well let's find out what happened after some music. It's time for your third disc, Carrie Hill.

哦，这是乔治·福姆比的《爷爷的法兰绒睡衣》。我弹尤克里里，虽然水平一般——虽然现在生疏了。我曾是乔治·福姆比协会会员，没错，伟大的我和朋友罗布。罗布是我学生时代最好的朋友，他有张乔治·福姆比唱这首歌的78转唱片，总在操场上对着我们唱。

Oh, so this is Grandad's Flannelette Night Shirt by George Fornby. I am a ukulele player, not a particularly good one. Although I've let it lapse. I was once a member of the George Fornby Society Yeah, of Great me and my friend Rob. So Rob was there at school, my kind of best friend at school, he had a 78 of George Forby singing this song and he would stand in the playground and sing this to us.

他会在派对之类的场合这么做。我们算是比较古怪的孩子。

And he'd do it at parties and things. I mean we kind of odd kids.

我们家有件传家宝，一年前交到了我手上。从爷爷年轻时就在我们家了。我告诉你是什么你就明白了——那是我爷爷的格子法兰绒睡衣。我受洗那天穿的就是它。

Now in the family we've got an heirloom They handed it to me a year ago. It's been in our possession since grandad was a lad. I'll tell you what it is and then you'll know. It's me grandad's plan to let night shirt. In it, I was christened one day.

在教堂里，那时世界上还有...

Down at the church, there were in the world.

乔治·福姆比和爷爷的法兰绒睡衣。那么哈里·希尔，你搬去香港后进了所新学校，国际学校。你童年很幸福，但我觉得你小时候也挺害羞的，这么说对吗？

George Fornby and granddad's flannelette night shirt. So Harry Hill, you moved to Hong Kong and started a new school, an international school. Now you'd had a happy childhood, but I think you were also quite shy when you were little. Is that fair to say?

嗯，青春期那会儿吧。我是个特别害羞的孩子。刚进那所学校时，同学总是来来去去，没人想和我做朋友劳伦。难以置信是吧？但学校生活确实艰难。

Well, when I hit my teens, I think. I was a very shy kid. Joining that school, so people were coming and going all the time and they weren't interested in being my friend Lauren. Hard to believe, yeah. But school was tough.

大概过了半年，我慢慢交到几个朋友，我觉得是靠搞笑做到的。

And then gradually after about six months, I made a couple of friends and I did that really by being funny I think.

老师呢？有和你投缘的吗？

And what about teachers? Were there any that you connected with?

有几位老师。香港地方小，当地英语电视台就两个频道，我的历史老师是新闻主播。白天看他讲课，晚上就听他说'您刚刚看到的是南中国海...'

There were a couple of teachers. I mean, we had a really because Hong Kong was a small area, the local TV, so the English speaking TV, there were two channels and my history teacher was the newsreader. So you'd see him in the history lesson. In the evening, he'd be saying, You've just seen him from the South China Sea.

这对爱看电视、从乡下出来的孩子来说肯定特别震撼吧。

That must have seemed incredibly impressive, especially to a TV loving kid who's just kind of come from sticks effectively.

他性格挺冷淡的，总是漫不经心的样子。

And he was quite cold, he was very laid back.

那么他叫什么名字来着？

So who was what was his name?

保罗·吉林汉姆。我记得有一次，我们要做一个演讲，具体内容我记不清了，只记得我讲的是维多利亚时期使用童工的事，比如那些被派去扫烟囱的孩子。细节记不清了，但我当时画了些示意图。每个人都上台演讲，我讲完后，他把我拉到一边说：你注意到你演讲时大家都在认真听吗？

Paul Gillingham. And I remember once, we had to do this talk about I don't know what it was I remember my talk was about using child labour in the Victorian era, like chimney sweeps, you know, when they'd send kids up. I can't remember the details, but I'd done these diagrams. And everyone got up and did their talk. I did my talk and then he pulled me aside at the end and said, Did you notice that everyone listened when you did your talk?

你很擅长与人沟通。意识到这点很有用。

You're good at communicating with people. And that's kind of a useful thing to be aware of.

那你当时注意到他说的这个现象了吗？

And had you noticed what he said? Had

注意到了。说实话，我当时完全掌控了全场注意力。

you Yeah, noticed that had. I mean, I absolutely had them in the palm of my hand.

哈利，几年后你们全家搬回了肯特郡。你当时是感到解脱还是开心？

Harry, after a couple of years, the family returned to Kent. Were you relieved, pleased

其实那时我不想回来，因为已经习惯了城市生活。香港是个充满活力的地方，走出门搭上巴士就能到湾仔或中环，那里有电影院和各种娱乐场所。

to watch? Well, then I didn't want to come back, because by then I'd got used to it. You know, the city was an exciting place to live in. You'd just walk out the door, get on a bus and you'd be in Wanchai or Central and there'd be cinemas and all sorts of stuff.

所以哈利，你回到肯特郡后上了当地文法学校，选了理科A-level课程。这显然为你后来成为医生铺平了道路——我们知道你确实成为了医生。

So Harry, you were back in Kent at a local grammar school. You took science a levels. And and obviously, this put you on the path to becoming a doctor, as you did. We know that you did. Yeah.

但从你其他描述来看，你明明是个极具创造力、善于表达的孩子，按理说应该走上完全不同的人生道路。

But, know, from everything else that you've said, you were this very creative, communicative kid who sort of should have been going in a completely different direction. How

你当时有多坚定学医呢？

committed were you more?

那么，你当时有多投入呢

Well, how committed were you

我走错了路，劳伦。我只能这么说。我走错了方向。

to I took a wrong turn, Lauren. That's all I can say. I took a wrong turn.

在哪里？是怎么发生的？

Where? How did it happen?

转向了科学领域。嗯，我想是我们成立的那家科学公司导致的。那涉及到我们购买爆炸物？和化工行业差不多。我们需要大量采购化学品。

Towards science. Well, think it was this science company that we set up. It involved us buying explosions? Same as chemical industries. It involved us buying a lot of chemicals.

那时候你可以在药房买到大部分制作炸药的原料。我需要一个幌子，就说自己对科学感兴趣。我确实对生物学有热情，觉得这门学科非常有意思。后来我父母参加家长会时，物理老师告诉我母亲说我想学医。

In those days you could buy most of the ingredients for explosives and stuff in the chemist. And I had to have a cover for that and that was that I was interested in science. I was genuinely interested in biology. I think biology is really interesting. And then what happened was my parents went to a parent's evening and the physics teacher said my mum said he wants to do medicine.

她特别希望我学医。哪个父母不是呢？

She was keen for me to do medicine. Who wouldn't be?

当然，确实如此。

Of course, yes.

结果物理老师说：'哦不，他绝对考不上医学院'。父母转述给我后，我就想：'好，我非要证明给你们看'。于是我就赌气去学了医，简直疯了！抱歉打断一下，但部分原因也是我无法明确表达自己真正想做的事。

And the physics teacher said, Oh, no, there's no way he's going get to medical school. And they reported that back to me and I thought, Right, I'll show you. So I sort of went into medicine out of spite. It was mad! Sorry to interrupt, but part of it was also that I couldn't articulate what I wanted to do.

如果有人问：'给你三个愿望会是什么？'其中一个肯定是想当喜剧演员。但我从不敢大声说出来，更不敢告诉非常...

If someone had said, If you had three wishes, what would they be? One would be, I'd like to be a comedian. But I couldn't say that out loud. I couldn't say it to my parents who were very

中产而且当时

middle And by the

原因是

way was

那是因为你看不见

that because you couldn't see

我看不见根源。

I couldn't see the root.

对。不是因为害羞或尴尬吗？

Right. It wasn't a shyness and embarrassment?

是的，有一点那种感觉，不太能说出口

Yeah, was a bit of that, not So being able to say

你在伦敦南部的圣乔治医学院学医时，积极参与了戏剧社团。你参演过哪些类型的剧目？

you studied medicine at St George's Medical School in South London, where you threw yourself in with the drama society. What kind of productions did you take part in?

医学院有个悠久的传统——不知为何特别流行讽刺剧，医学院讽刺剧。我就是参与这类演出。流程是你写个剧本，带着它来开会，只要写了就能参演，完全不需要审核。

Well there's a big tradition and I don't know why there's a big tradition of reviews, medical school reviews and that's what I did. The medical school review, how it would work is you'd write a sketch and you'd come to the meeting and if you'd written a sketch, you'd be in. There was no sort of editing process.

能举个你参演过的剧目例子吗？

Can you give me an example of the kind of piece that you would be putting?

记得有次演候诊室场景，我扮成胰腺，另一个人扮肾脏。和我平时接触的东西倒也相差不远

I remember once there was a thing, it was like a waiting room and I was dressed as a pancreas, someone else was dressed as a kidney. So it was kind of not a million miles away from my sense of the stuff

我写的。从所有那些

I wrote. From everything that

会跟着做。是的，但我写了大量的东西。

would follow. Yeah, but I wrote a hell of a lot of stuff.

你喜欢那样吗？我非常喜欢。感觉很简单。我所想的只是：做这个，这很容易。

And did you enjoy it? I loved it. It just felt easy. All I about. Do this, this is easy.

你1988年作为实习医生开始工作的？

You started as a trainee doctor in 1988?

是的，我1988年取得资格。我的第一份工作是在骨科，而我当时对骨科一无所知。所以我到了病房，推着治疗车巡视，却什么都不懂，回答不了任何人的问题。

Yes, I qualified in 1988. My first job was in orthopaedics and I didn't know any orthopaedics. So I arrive on the ward and I have to go round with my trolley and I didn't know anything, I couldn't answer anyone's questions.

那是什么感觉？

How did that feel?

从那一刻起，我只觉得失控了。我的感受就是这样。我记得有个年轻人，腿上了石膏。他问我：医生，这石膏要打多久？我不知道。

From that moment I just felt out of control. I mean that's how I felt. I remember this, he was quite a young man, had his leg in plaster. And he said to me, Oh doctor, how long is this going to be in plaster for? I didn't know.

我就问：其他医生怎么说？他说：六周。大概六周吧。

And I said, How long did the other doctor say? And he said, Six weeks. About six weeks.

我又问：那你已经

And I said, Well, how long have you

打了多久？他说：两周。我说：那估计还要再打四周。你知道吗，就是这样。我全程都在即兴发挥。

had it in for? He said, Two weeks. I said, Well, I'm expecting you to have it in for another four weeks. You know, it was like that. I was just busking it the whole time.

说实话，大部分知识我都是在最初几周从护士长那里学来的。

And I learnt most of it in the first few weeks from the ward sister, is the truth.

哈利，我们马上就会揭晓接下来发生了什么。

Harry, we'll find out what happened next in a moment.

接下来会发生什么？

What happens next?

我们得为音乐腾出些空间。这是第四首。我们要听什么？

We've got to make some room for the music. It's number four. What are we going to hear?

这是Electric Six的《Gay Bar》。我对Electric Six一无所知，但我知道这首歌，觉得它特别有趣，总能让我笑起来。以前我做《TV Burp》时，Jill Halfpenny在《东区人》里演角色。她在阿尔伯特广场开了家美甲店，每次节目里有Jill在美甲店的片段，我就会唱这首歌，不过我把歌词改成‘nail bar’而不是‘gay bar’。

This is Gay Bar by Electric Six. I don't know anything about Electric Six, but I know this song and I found it really funny. Really makes me smile. When I used to do TV burp, Jill Halfpenny was on EastEnders. She opened a nail bar on Albert Square, and I used every time we had a clip of Jill Halfbring in the nail bar, I would sing this, but I would sing nail bar instead of gay bar.

姑娘，我想带你去美甲店。美甲店。美甲店。

Girl, I wanna take you to the nail bar. Nail bar. Nail bar.

Electric Six的《Gay Bar》。我得预约做个美甲了，哈利·希尔。

Electric Six and Gay Bar. I must make an appointment to get my nails done, Harry Hill.

没错。

Yes.

哈利，喜剧是你学医期间一直渴望实现的梦想，后来你和朋友罗伯搭档。最终你们在伦敦南部争取到了双人表演的机会。你们当时怎么称呼这个组合来着？

So Harry, comedy was an itch that you were desperate to scratch the whole time you were training to be a doctor, and you teamed up with your friend Rob. And eventually you managed to get a gig in South London as a duo. And what did you say the act was?

我们是

We were

叫‘霍尔兄弟’。我本名是马修·霍尔。这个罗伯就是以前在《深夜秀》唱《Grand Les Fonders》的同一个人。要是问我们那届同学谁会成为喜剧演员，大家都会说是罗伯。他是我认识的最有趣的人。

were called the Hall Brothers. My real name is Matthew Hall. So this is the same Rob that used to sing Grand Les Fonders at Night Show. If you asked anyone at our school out of our year who would be the comedian, it would be Rob. He is the funniest person I know.

但他并没有我那么渴望得到它。

But he didn't want it as much as me.

第一次演出，情况如何？

First gig, how did it go?

那是在隧道俱乐部。由一个叫马尔科姆·哈迪的人经营，他是个有点传奇色彩的无政府主义者，真的挺叛逆的。他给了很多人第一次机会，可能也吓跑了不少人，因为那是个很难应付的场子。我们还印了这些传单。你知道，这就是一种无知带来的天真热情。我们印了关于自己的传单，霍尔兄弟加上一个电话号码，我的号码，把传单放在桌上。结果我们上台时全场寂静，过了一会儿他们就把传单卷起来扔向我们。

This was at the Tunnel Club. It was run by this guy Malcolm Hardy, was a sort of legendary of an anarchist, a really sort of naughty He gave a lot of people their first breaks and he probably put off a lot of people as well because it was a tough gig. And we had printed off these leaflets. You know, this is a kind of naive enthusiasm of ignorance. We printed off these leaflets about ourselves, the Hall brothers with a phone number, my phone number, put them out on the tables and we go down to silence and then after a while they roll up the leaflets and throw them at us.

然后马尔科姆调低了麦克风音量，调高了背景音乐。

And then Malcolm faded down the mics and faded up the music.

就这样结束了？

And that was that?

就这样结束了。但至少我们彼此作伴，还能一笑置之。如果有的选，我宁愿做双人表演，因为我觉得现在不孤单了，但以前有时候确实会有点孤独。特别是当你作为暖场嘉宾出现时，没人愿意和你说话。基本上你就是当晚最薄弱的环节。

And that was that. But at least we had each other so we kind of laughed about it. Given the choice, I would much rather have been in a double act because I think it's not lonely now but I think at times it used to be a bit lonely. Particularly if you in an open spot turning up, no one wants to talk to You're basically the weak link in the night, potentially.

不过哈利，后来出现了转折点。1990年你决定彻底放弃医学。为什么最终做出这个决定？是什么促使你这么做的？

So Harry, there was a turning point though. 1990, you decided to give up medicine for good. Why did you make the decision? What pushed you to do that in the end?

这个决定酝酿已久，后来我的继父因癌症去世了。我想，你看，这个人辛苦工作了一辈子，他们总在谈论退休后要做什么。他多大年纪？大概54岁？我当时想，我不希望自己变成那样。

It had been a long time coming, and then my stepfather died of cancer. And I thought, you know, here's a man that sort of worked all his life, and they always used to talk about what they were going to do in retirement. How old was he? Maybe 54? And I thought, I don't want that to be me.

另一方面我觉得，如果当时告诉他我要放弃工作去做喜剧演员，他肯定会非常不赞成。

I mean the other part of it was that I think if I'd said to him, I'm giving up to be a comedian, it would have been quite disapproving.

他原本会希望你继续那份体面的工作。

He would have wanted you to have the sensible job before.

是啊，这大概让我从中解脱了一些。但说实话，我当时真的已经到极限了。

Yeah, so it probably kind of set me free a little bit from that. But really, was just kind of at the end of my tether with it.

作为医生，你一定也目睹过不少令人痛心的事吧。我是说，如果你心不在焉的话，那对你来说肯定很难熬。

Mean, must have seen some very upsetting things as a doctor as well. I mean, must have been difficult for you if your heart wasn't in it.

我觉得即使全心投入也很难。记得刚开始的四到六个月，我不得不通知一个男人他妻子在手术中意外去世的消息，他们还有年幼的孩子。我完全不知所措。告诉他时他哭了，接着我也哭了，心想这样不行。其实我本来不是个情绪化的人，但这种工作反而让你把情绪都憋在心里。

I think it's difficult even if your heart's in it. I mean, the first four or six months I had to break the news to this bloke whose wife had died in an operation unexpectedly and they had young children and I was completely out of my depth. Told him and he started crying and then I started crying and I thought this isn't good. I certainly wasn't a very emotional actually what it makes you do is bottle up your emotions.

这种情况持续了多

How long did that

压抑情绪。

The bottling.

这种情绪压抑持续了多久？

How long did the bottling go on for?

直到我有了孩子才好转。养育孩子似乎能打开你的情感闸门。后来我去找我的顾问医生，他说我们谈谈职业规划吧。他是个好人，似乎很关心我。其实我医术不算差。

Until I had kids, I think. Something about having kids that sort uncorked you. I went to my consultant and he said, Let's have a careers chat. He was a nice bloke and he seemed quite interested in me. I wasn't a bad doctor.

如果坚持下来，我可能会成为一名全科医生。实际上辞职时我对母亲说：给我一年时间试试，我想休整一年再出发。她说：你该找个有强力业余戏剧社团的诊所工作——那本可能成为我的未来。

If I'd sort of stuck at it, I probably would have been I would have ended up as a GP. Actually, when I gave it up, I said to my mum, Look, I'm going to try for a year. I'm going to give myself a year off to sort of have a go. And she said, What you need to do is get a GP practice with a really strong amateur dramatics group, which would have been my future.

你觉得那样会快乐吗？

Could you have been happy, do you think?

说不准。你知道，人生总有这些分岔路。但那个时刻就是转折点。

I don't know. I mean, you know, all these kind of sliding doors things. But it was that moment.

那你妈妈呢？你说她似乎很支持你。当你提出要放弃时，她没有被吓到吗？

So what about your mum? Because you said that it sounds like she was quite supportive of you. She wasn't horrified when you said that you wanted to give up?

她当时自顾不暇。她刚丧偶不久。实际上这意味着我有段时间可以休息。我暂时搬回家住，因为基本上我那时穷得叮当响。一年变成了两年，所以我从没有过那种正式宣告‘妈，我要永远放弃’的时刻。我是个喜剧演员。

She had enough on her plate. She was recently widowed. It actually meant that I had a bit of time off. I moved home for a bit because basically I was much broke. The year turned into two years, so I never had that moment where I said, I'm giving it up for good, mum.' I'm a comedian.

不得不

Had to

上演《东区人》式的重磅告别戏码。

have the big EastEnders moment.

不是在《黑色物质》的片场，也不是在广场上。

Wasn't in the Back back of the of black matter, up the square.

不过你还记得最后一次以医生身份值班的情景吗？

Can you remember your last shift though, as a doctor?

不记得了，但我记得上车时的情形——这听起来不可思议。我记得坐进我那辆老丰田卡罗拉（P牌照的卡罗拉），驶出医院停车场。打开收音机时，播放的正是埃里克·伯登与动物乐队的《You've Got to Get Out of This Place》。绝无半句虚言。当然我肯定记忆有偏差，可能是第二或第三首歌，但这就是我的回忆。

No, I remember getting in the car and this sounds impossible. I remember getting in my car, it was an old Toyota Corolla, P Reg Corolla, driving out of the hospital car park. I turned on the radio and the tune that came on was Eric Burden and the animals You've Got to Get Out of This Place. It's no word of a lie. I mean I'm sure I must have confabulated it must have been the second song or the third song but that is my memory.

我记得驾车离开时如释重负，心想‘哇，这感觉真刺激’。那种感受既无比兴奋又同样令人恐惧。

And I remember driving away, of weight lifted and I thought Wow this is really exciting. And it was incredibly exciting and terrifying in equal measure.

好了哈利，我们再来听点音乐。这是你今天选的第五首歌。

Alright, Harry. Let's have some more music. This is your fifth choice today.

哦对，《战时生活》，传声头乐队。我是他们的铁杆粉丝，超爱大卫·拜恩。我去看了《美国乌托邦》演出，看起来棒极了——全员西装，乐手们的乐器都是无线的，还有精心编排的舞蹈。

Oh yeah, Life During War Time, Talking Heads. So I'm a big Talking Heads fan. I love David Byrne and I went to see American Utopia. It looked fantastic, all in suits and all the musicians, their instruments are wireless, their choreographed.

在舞台上自由走动之类的，没错。

Free roaming around the stage and all of that, yeah.

我当时几乎从座位上站起来了。倒不是跳舞，只是想离得更近些。那种氛围太震撼了。我心想，这家伙多大年纪了？60还是65岁？他本可以随便应付下演出，大家也会心满意足地回家。

I was kind of up out of my seat. Not dancing, just because I wanted to be closer to it. It was just electric. And I thought, here's a guy, he's what, 60, 65 or something? He could have just played, you know, done it and we all would have gone home happy.

但他却不断突破极限。离开时我就在想，这才是对待事物的态度。你必须提升自己的水平。所以我一直努力这么做——说来有趣，那之后我确实为现场演出写了新段子。

But here's a guy who is just pushing it and pushing it. And I came away thinking this is how you need to approach stuff. You need to raise your game. So I've tried to do that. I mean, in my live work I did write a routine after that, funnily enough.

虽然内容和那场演出没什么关联，但在我心里总把它归因于那次启发。

It doesn't really bear any relation to that show but in my mind I always associate it with that inspiration.

是什么样的段子？

And what was the routine?

是关于托盘烘焙和泪水的区别...以及如何把所有人都归类为托盘烘焙型或分享型人格。

Was about the differences between tray bakes and tears and and tears tears how you can allocate all people as either a tray bake or a tear and share.

噢没错，我能理解吗？

Oh yeah. I can I get it?

我觉得大卫·拜恩会喜欢这个。

I think David Byrne would like that.

是啊，毕竟他是典型的分享型人格。

Yeah. Well, he's a he's a town share.

他是

He's a

镇上的名人，对吧？《说话的头》和《战时生活》。哈里·希尔，说到这里，我想我们应该谈谈你出生证明上的名字，正如你提到的，实际上是马修·霍尔。你具体是什么时候变成哈里·希尔的？

town share, isn't he? Talking heads and life during wartime. Harry Hill, at this point, I think we should talk about the fact that the name on your birth certificate, as you mentioned, is actually Matthew Hall. When did you become Harry Hill exactly?

刚开始时我叫哈里·霍尔。我的很多表演都是对托尼·阿瑟·阿斯基、马克斯·米勒那种双头韵风格的戏仿。所以我选了哈里·霍尔这个名字，因为它本身就包含这种韵律。但后来要申请演员证，不能和已有演员重名，当时有位叫哈里·哈里的女演员（可能是哈丽特）。你可以写信申请授权，但她拒绝了。

When I started, I was Harry Hall. A lot of my act is of tongue in cheek kind of throwback to those Tony Arthur Askey, Max Miller, they are all double alliteration. So I thought Harry Hall and I liked Harry Hall because it was so it was contained within it. But then you had to get an equity card and you couldn't have the same name as someone else in equity and there was an actor, a lady called Harry Hari I think it was Harriet. You could write to them and try and get permission, she said no.

于是我想，该怎么办呢？最后定了哈里·希尔这个名字。

So I thought, know, what do I do? Anyway, settled on Harry Hill.

用艺名是否有助于在本人和角色之间保持某种微妙的距离感？

And does it help to have a stage name and that slight separation between the person and the persona?

没错。虽然不是刻意为之，但效果很好。这形成了有趣的区隔——圈内朋友都叫我哈里，比如罗布就叫我马修，家人也是。另外就是要有标志性着装，就像我这身。穿上戏服我就成了哈里，脱下来就是马修。

Yeah. I mean it wasn't deliberate but it's great. It's worked out really well Because you do have two sides apart from you know who your showbiz friends are because they call you Harry, you know Rob calls me Matthew, obviously my family do. And the other thing is to have an outfit, a uniform like I have. You know, I can be Matthew and then I put the outfit on and I'm Harry.

说说这身标志性装扮是怎么形成的吧。

So tell me about the uniform and how that took shape.

我一直认为演出要有仪式感。八九十年代我在慈善商店买衣服，那些店里的衣服都是六七十年代的款式。我买了套60年代的西装，有件大领衬衫特别受欢迎——每次穿它人们都说'这造型很棒'。既然有效果，自然就保留下来了。

You know, always thought that you should put on a show, and so I was buying my clothes from charity shops and in the 1980s and 1990s the clothes that were in those shops were from the 1960s and 1970s and that's what I bought. It was a 1960s suit and I had this one shirt with a big collar and what I found was, when I wore the shirt with the big collar, people would say to me, that's good, yeah that's good'. And so it's that old thing of 'if it works, keep it in'.

你刚才说有种'逐渐入戏'的体验，从马修转变为哈里。这种转变有多大？两个人格差异明显吗？

And you know that experience of, like you say, kind of slipping into character almost before Matthew becomes Harry. How big a change is that? How different are the two?

现场演出时转变很大。我需要独处一小时做准备，不想之前和人交谈。在化妆间里，这不是扮演角色，就是我自己。

Well it's a big change when I'm live. I have to have an hour to myself. I don't really want people talking to me beforehand. I'm in the dressing room. It's not a character, it is me.

可以说是表演人格，也是我的一部分。但必须来回踱步酝酿情绪，否则演出效果会打折扣。

It's a persona if you like. It's part of me. But I have to pace up and down and work myself up. If I don't do that, it's not as funny.

那么你的第一次个人演出呢？是在伦敦南部的阿兹特克喜剧俱乐部。被观众接纳的感觉如何？算得上是一次胜利吗？

And what about your first solo gig? It was at the Aztec Comedy Club in South London. How did it feel to be embraced? Was it a triumph?

那其实是南诺伍德的一家墨西哥餐厅，我到得特别早。我把所有笑话都写在四张A4纸上，连起来快有我人那么高，这就是我背下来的剧本。上台后第一个段子就引来笑声，这完全打乱了我的节奏——因为我排练时从没预设过观众会笑。幸好我把节目单写在手心上，这才稳住阵脚，而且那次演出后还真有人预约了我。

It was a Mexican restaurant in South Norwood and I got there very early. I'd written these jokes on a great big long I'd all these of A four paper so it was like as tall as me, this script I'd learnt. And I went on and the first gag got a laugh and it completely threw me. Because I had been rehearsing it without laughs. Fortunately I had written the set list on my hand so I was able to recover and actually I got a booking from that.

哈里，听起来当你进入状态后，事业进展相当迅速啊。因为到1992年，你就获得了爱丁堡艺术节最佳新人珀雷尔奖。

And Harry, it sounds like once it came together, once things started working, it sort of happened relatively quickly for you because by 1992, that's when you won the Perrier for Best Newcomer at the Edinburgh Festival.

我当时完全着了魔。要知道我从每周工作80到100小时的医生岗位退下来，不用再黎明即起。突然白天有了大把时间，就特别想证明自己。所以我会早起写段子，疯狂打电话联系演出。多数时候对方不接，留言也不回，我就死缠烂打不停地骚扰他们。

I was absolutely driven. Remember I had gone from doing eighty, one hundred hours a week as a doctor, getting up at a crack of dawn. Suddenly I had all this time free during the day so I really felt like I had something to prove. So I would get up and I would write jokes and I would bash the phones, would phone these people up. Most of time they didn't answer, you'd leave a message, they wouldn't get back to you and I would just bug them and bug them.

要是始终没回复，我就直接杀到俱乐部说'您好，我一直在给您打电话'，对方就会想'天啊，用这家伙打发时间吧'，但总会给我个暖场机会。可以说我为达目的完全不择手段。

And if they didn't get back to me I would go to the club and say Oh hello, I've been phoning you and they'd think Oh Christ, use this, but I'd give them an open spot. So I was absolutely merciless in my pursuit of it.

你认为这种特质是你成功的关键因素吗？

And was that an important part of your success, you think?

毫无疑问。能出头的往往不是最搞笑的人，而是最死皮赖脸的。我当时就特别厚脸皮。让我们

Absolutely. It's not the funniest people that get on, it's the pushiest. And I was very pushy. Let's

继续欣赏音乐吧，有请哈里·希尔。现在是第六首。

have some more music, Harry Hill. It's number six.

是披头士的歌。有次我对乔治·哈里森说的话就挺尴尬——我上前说'乔治，我是你们的狂热粉丝'，他眼神里立刻流露出惊恐。抱歉，扯远了。

It's the Beatles. As I once said to George Harrison, that didn't go down very well. I went up to him and said, Oh George, I'm a mad Beatles fan. His face, was a kind of look of absolute panic in his eyes. Anyway, sorry, we digress.

这首《Hey Bulldog》之所以入选，其实选他们任何歌都行，但感觉列侬和麦卡特尼在这首歌里玩得很开心。结尾处他们还在模仿狗叫。当年我和朋友史蒂夫、马克组乐队时，总在试音时这么闹着玩。

So this is Hey Bulldog, and the reason I like this one, could have chosen any of their tracks, but it feels to me like John and Paul are having fun. You know, they're mucking about doing dog impressions at the end of it. You know, I was in a band with my friend Steve and Mark, and we used to do this in the soundcheck.

披头士乐队和《Hey Bulldog》。哈里·希尔，1997年你在第四频道拥有了自己的电视系列节目，这让你可以天马行空地发挥想象力。你对制作过程有什么记忆？

The Beatles and Hey Bulldog. Harry Hill in 1997 you got your own television series on Channel four and that enabled you to give your imagination free rein. What are your memories of making it?

我是斯图尔特·李的忠实粉丝。那时斯图尔特已经是我的朋友了，他担任剧本编辑。其实我当时需要的可能不是鼓励我放飞自我的人，而是能稍微约束我一下的人。我最喜欢的部分是各种电视节目的苍蝇版本。当时有

I was a big fan of Stuart Lee. Stuart Lee was a friend of mine by then and he was the script editor. And really what I should have had is someone to rein me in a bit probably rather than someone egging me on. So my favourite bit was fly versions of TV shows. There were

你们是怎么拍摄的？

How do you shoot that?

那是个微型布景，上面罩着有机玻璃盒。所以我们拍了苍蝇版《家庭财富》，还有苍蝇版《盲约》。你得找个驯蝇师，会有专人带着工具过来。

So it was a miniature set with a Perspex box over it. So we had fly family fortunes, think, or we had fly blind date. So you get a fly wrangler, a bloke would turn up.

对，就像雇人那样。可以直接...比如抓些苍蝇。

Yeah. To, like, hire someone. You can just, like, catch Yeah.

那人会带个长筒袜——装满苍蝇的女士丝袜。有个经典时刻斯图尔特至今记得，导演罗伯特·纳什（他是非常老派的娱乐节目导演，曾执导《两个罗尼》，实际上长期负责《流行音乐排行榜》）对着摄像师大喊：'把镜头对准苍蝇的脸！'但确实拍得很精彩。

He'd have a stocking. It would be like a lady's stocking full of flies. And there was a classic moment, and Stuart always remembers this, is that the director, Robert Nash, who was a very old school light entertainment, he did the two Ronnies, actually he did Top of the Pops for a long time, of him shouting to one of the cameramen Put the camera on the fly's face! But yeah, it was brilliant.

哈里，2001年你开始创作并主持《电视吐槽》，本质上是用搞笑方式回顾一周的电视节目。

Harry, in 2001 you started writing and presenting TV burp Essentially, on it's a funny look back at the week's TV.

一种另类视角的回顾。

A sideways look.

另类视角...这个以另类视角回顾一周电视的节目播出了十一季，获得许多奖项，但制作过程很艰难，工作强度大压力也大。那段经历对你来说如何？

Sideways A sideways look at the week's look at week's ran for eleven series, it won many awards, but it was tough to make and the workload was quite intense and the pressure was intense. How was that for you?

我制作过很多电视节目，大部分都没这么成功——说实话都比不上《电视吐槽》。但我不太怀念那些年，压力太大了。每周开始时完全没有节目构思，却知道周六必须完成剧本。周六早上坐下来写节目，我们总是提前一周看预览带。所以周六面对空白稿纸开始，当天结束时就必须把剧本发给制作人。

I've made a lot of TV shows most of them have been a lot less successful well, they've all been a lot less successful, let's not beat around the bush than TV. But I don't have many I don't look back at those years particularly fondly because of that stress. Know, I would start the week with no show knowing that on Saturday I'd have to write I'd sit down Saturday morning and write a show. You know, we'd work one week in advance, you know, of preview tapes. So I would sit down with a blank page on the Saturday and at the end of that day I would have to email it to the producer.

那时候你们大概还在看录像带吧？

And you would have been watching VHSs I guess in those days?

是啊，不止我一个人。丹·梅耶、保罗·霍克斯比、大卫·昆蒂克、布伦达·吉尔胡利他们都特别擅长这个。我们整天都在看电视，没有捷径可走。

Yes, wasn't just me. It was Dan Mayer, Paul Hawkesby, David Quantick, Brenda Gilhooley. They were the ones that were really good at it. And me, we would watch TV all the time, all day long. There were no shortcuts.

问题就在这儿。你真的得看完两个半小时的《埃默代尔》，没法快进。别误会，最棒的日子是录制日。

That was the problem with it. You did actually have to watch the full two and a half hours of Emmerdale. You just had to watch it. You couldn't fast forward through it. Don't get me wrong, the best day was the recording day.

但每次录完节目回家，我妻子都知道——我会上楼，她已经睡了，我会说'我必须摆脱这个'。真的很糟。可等到周六看成品时，我又觉得棒极了。其实我真的很享受观看过程。

But always, if you ask my wife, I would come back every time I came back from a recording, I'd go upstairs, she'd be in bed, and I'd say I've got to get out of this. I've got to get out of this. It was bad, you know. And then I'd watch it on a Saturday and I think it was great. I mean, I did really enjoy watching

嗯。我很好奇你在黄金时段大获成功时，是否觉得需要平衡内心无政府主义的幽默感和主流黄金时段的审美取向？

it. Yeah. I wondered about finding yourself on prime time and being so successful, and whether it was a bit of a challenge balancing your of inner anarchic sense of humor with that kind of prime time mainstream sensibility. Was that ever

我从不觉得受限制。实际上ITV电视台也从不干涉。相反这给了我勇气。这档节目的妙处就在于把那种叛逆悄悄带进黄金时段的客厅。我总认为不能因为观众主流就居高临下——以前有人问'布拉德福德的老太太怎么看'这种话真让我火大。

I never felt restricted by it. And actually ITV never really got involved. In fact, I felt kind of emboldened by it. I think the beauty of that show for me was smuggling in that kind of sensibility into people's living rooms at prime time. Always think that there is a temptation to patronise the mainstream crowd just because they are I mean it used to really wind me up because people would say What about the little old lady in Bradford?

知道吗？我总想：这位老太太多大？70还是75？她年轻时可是朋克族！所以我一直坚持突破界限。

You know, and I'm thinking, Well, how old is this little old lady? Is she, 70, 75? She was a punk so I was always keen to push it.

哈里·希尔，该播放下一首歌了。你的第七个选择是什么？为什么带它去岛上？

It's time for some more music, Harry Hill. Your seventh choice, what's next and why are you taking it to the island?

说到这个我可能哽咽。我和好友史蒂夫·布朗合作多年，他是我的音乐总监——他自称音乐总监，我总叫他键盘手。但他为我所有作品谱曲，无论是每周电视精选还是节目主题曲。

Oh, so I might choke up on this. I worked for a long time with a friend of mine, Steve Brown, my musical director. I mean he would call himself a musical director, I used to call him a keyboard player. But he wrote all the music for anything I ever did. So he wrote TV highlights of the week or any of that stuff, the theme tunes for all my shows.

我们共同创作了很多作品，比如音乐剧《X》和关于托尼·布莱尔的另一部音乐剧。我们曾是挚友——用'曾是'因为他在2024年2月去世了。

And we did a lot of stuff together. We did X The Musical, we did another musical about Tony Blair and we were best of friends. I say were because he died in February 2024.

我很抱歉。

I'm sorry.

是啊，而且事情发生得很突然，老实说，我还没完全接受这个事实。所以现在感觉空落落的。我们以前每周会通两三次电话，总是笑声不断，他是我谈生意上的事的人。很多时候我们打电话就是互相吐槽别人。

Yeah, and it was quite sudden and I haven't really come to terms with it, if I'm honest. So there's a big gap. We would talk on the phone two or three times a week and we'd always be laughing and he was the person I would talk to the business. A lot of the time we would phone each other up and just kind of slag off other people.

你肯定很怀念那些时光。

You must miss that.

是啊，你需要一个能这样相处的人，但我还没找到。我非常想念他。我们当时在合作一部儿童音乐剧，改编自我多年前出版的童书《小马蒂姆》。他为此创作了歌曲，还给我发了用尤克里里弹唱的demo。这是其中一首歌《永不放弃爱》。

Well you need someone to be able to do that with and I haven't found that person yet. Yeah, I miss him terribly. We were working on a kids musical based on these kids' books I had out years ago called Tim the Tiny Horse. He'd written the songs for it, and he'd sent me the demos, which is him playing them on a ukulele. And this is a song from that which is Never Give Up On Love.

史蒂夫·布朗与《永不放弃爱》。哈利，你拥有辉煌的职业生涯，但并非所有事都完全按计划发展。

Steve Brown and Never Give Up On Love. Harry, you've had an incredible career but not all of it has gone according to plan exactly.

没错，大部分都不是。

No, most of it hasn't.

那我们来聊聊那些偏离轨道的部分。你提到曾合写过基于《X音素》的音乐剧《我唱不了》，虽然得到了西蒙·考威尔的祝福，但它在伦敦西区的上演时间没达到你的预期。你如何从这样的挫折中恢复？

So let's talk about some of the bits that veered off track a little bit. You mentioned co writing a musical, I Can't Sing, based on The X Factor. I had Simon Cowell's blessing, but it didn't run-in the West End for as long as you were hoping. How do you bounce back from something like that?

其实如果要选职业生涯中最享受的事，那就是这部音乐剧。记得我们在不同排练厅排练时，他们说要不要去看看？帕拉狄昂剧院正在装台。我曾在那里演出过，当时和史蒂夫站在顶层楼座最后排，我对他说：我赌它能演六周。我说我们绝对填不满这个场子。

Well the truth is, if I had to choose one thing from my career that I enjoyed the most, it would be that. I mean I remember we did all these rehearsals in a different rehearsal room and they said, Should we go and visit? They are putting the set in at the Palladium. I remember standing at the back of the I had played the Palladium and I remember standing at the back with Steve right at the back of the dress circle, and I said to him, I'll give it six weeks. I said, There's no way we're to fill this.

结果它真的只演了六周。很快我就明白了，喜欢《X音素》的人不爱看音乐剧，而看音乐剧的人又不喜欢《X音素》。

Pretty much it ran for six weeks. It became clear to me, after a little while that the people who like the X Factor don't really go to musicals and the people who go to musicals don't really like the X Factor.

这真是...

That's just

真是个糟糕的主意。

a really bad idea.

不过你当时感觉如何？我心都碎了。你呢？

How did it feel though for you? I was heartbroken. Were you?

我倒没有真的心碎。为这种事心碎未免太幼稚了，你知道的，如果真为职业挫折感到极度沮丧，那简直像个巨婴。

I wasn't really heartbroken. You can't be heartbroken about this sort of, you know, you'd be a complete baby if you actually got really, really upset about professional failure.

但确实有人会这样。

Some people do though.

那他们就是巨婴。我没什么可失去的，除了自尊心和投入的时间。但我欢迎这个转变，这几乎是我结束电视节目后做的第一件事。

They're babies then. I didn't have anything riding on it. I mean apart from ego and the amount of time I'd invested in it. But I welcomed the change. It was pretty much one of the first things I did after TV Bert finished.

我不想再去接另一个电视节目。只想找点乐子，而这件事从头到尾都充满乐趣。

I didn't want to go and do another TV show. Wanted to have some fun and it was just enormous fun from start to finish.

现在是时候把你放逐到荒岛了。你觉得你在那儿会怎么样？

It's time to cast you away to the island. How do you think you'll get on there?

我觉得某种程度上我能应付。有些童子军的老把式，比如会打几种绳结，能拧两英寸半的木头——这可是我的专长。我们以前常把东西绑在一起。

I think I'll be okay in a way. There's old Cub Scout skills, you know. Used to be able to do a few knots, you know, turn two and a half inches. It was a speciality. You know, we used to lash things together.

记得有次我还做了个脸盆架，虽然这不是你会优先做的东西。

I remember I made a wash stand once. I mean it's not the first thing you would make.

但如果你需要一个的话，怎么

But if you needed one, how

是的。所以我在这方面还算灵巧。为了《电视饱嗝》，我几乎看遍了雷米尔的每一集。对，还有贝尔·格里尔斯的节目。我记得你得躲进死牛肚子里保暖对吧？

do Yes. So I am kind of handy like that. For TV burp, I watch pretty much every episode of Raymere's. Yeah, that and Bear Grylls. I think you have to hide inside a dead cow, don't you, to keep warm?

我就打算这么做。前半段时间我可能会熬夜，后半段需要时我就钻进牛肚子里。

That's what I'll be doing. First there I'd probably stay up. Second half inside the cow if you need me.

了解。不过在放逐你之前，今天的最后一首曲目，你最终会选择哪首歌？

Good to know. Before we cast you away though, your final track today, what's your last choice going to be?

我们聊过布鲁斯·福赛斯，我见过他几次。他给了我几条建议，我都采纳了。记得有次我向他抱怨节目反响可能不好，我说'刚做完的节目有什么好担心的？'他说'你该担心的是下一档节目！'对吧？

So we talked about Bruce Forsyth, who I met a few times. He gave me a couple of bits of advice which I take. I remember I was moaning to him once about how the show was going to be received. I said said, what are you worrying about the show you've just done? He said, you should worry about the show you're going to do next!' Right?

他还说学他那样，节目一结束就去度假。我也这么做。这首《生活就是游戏之名》是布鲁斯·福赛斯创作并演唱的《世代游戏》主题曲。我和玛格达结婚时，就是伴着这曲子走进礼堂的——其实不算礼堂，是旺兹沃思登记处——但我们是随着这个旋律入场的。歌词其实很甜蜜，'生活就是游戏之名，而我想与你共赴这场游戏'。

And he said, do what I do. As soon as you finish your show, go on holiday And I'd do that. This is Life is the Name of the Game which is the theme tune to the Generation Game written and sung by Bruce Forsyth. And when me and Magda got married, that's the tune we came down the it's not an aisle really, it's Wandsworth Registry Office but that's the sort of tune we arrived on. And actually it's a really sweet lyric, know, Life's the name of the game and I want to play the game with you.

《生活就是游戏之名》，布鲁斯·福赛斯。那么哈利·希尔，是时候将你放逐到荒岛了。我会给你《圣经》、莎士比亚全集，再让你自选一本书。你会选什么？

Life is the name of the game, Bruce Forsyth. So Harry Hill, it's time to cast you away to our desert island. I'm giving you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one more book of your choice. What will that be?

我觉得应该选本又大又厚的书，还能用来砸死小动物。所以我选塞万提斯的《堂吉诃德》。几年前我开始读，但实在太厚了。当时觉得这书挺有趣的，想着应该继续读，但一直没时间。这会是个好机会。

Well, think it should be a big book, a thick book that you could also use to kill small mammals with. So I'm going to go for Don Quixote by Cervantes. I started reading it a few years ago, but it's a very thick book. And I thought, this is a funny book actually, and actually I should come back to it, but I've never found the time to, So this would be a good opportunity.

绝佳机会。你还可以带件奢侈品，会选什么？

Perfect opportunity. You can also have a luxury item. What will that be?

既然是沙滩，我觉得可以带桶和铲子，不能堆沙堡的沙滩还有什么乐趣？

Well, I'm assuming that this is a sandy beach, I thought maybe a bucket and spade because where's the fun of a sandy beach without the ability to make sandcastles?

最后，今天分享的八首歌中，如果必须拯救一首不被海浪卷走，你会选哪首？

And finally, which one track of the eight that you've shared with us today would you save from the waves first, if you needed to?

我要选的是《永不放弃爱》。这是史蒂夫的歌。能听到他的声音真是太好了。

I'm going to say Never Give Up On Love. It's the Steve song. It's just nice to hear his voice.

哈里·希尔，非常感谢你让我们聆听你的荒岛唱片。这是我的荣幸。大家好。希望你们喜欢我和哈里的对话。虽然我不确定睡在牛肚子里是个好主意，但谁知道呢？

Harry Hill, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. My pleasure. Hello. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Harry. I'm not sure sleeping inside a cow is the way to go, but what do I know?

我们节目曾邀请过许多喜剧演员，包括达拉·奥布莱恩、格雷格·戴维斯和维多利亚·伍德。哈里的喜剧偶像布鲁斯·福赛斯也在我们的档案中。本期节目的录音室经理是唐纳德·麦克唐纳，助理制片人是克里斯汀·佩尔弗洛夫斯基，执行制作协调员是苏西·罗伊兰斯，内容编辑是穆加贝·图里亚，制片人是保拉·麦金利。下期节目，我的嘉宾将是科学家卡罗尔·罗宾逊女爵士教授。衷心期待您的收听。

We've cast away many comedians, including Dara O'Breen, Greg Davis, and Victoria Wood. Bruce Forsyth, Harry's Comedy Hero, is in our archive too. The studio manager for today's program was Donald McDonald, the assistant producer was Christine Perflovsky, the executive production coordinator was Susie Roilance, the content editor was Mugabe Turia, and the producer was Paula McGinley. Next time, my guest will be the scientist, Professor Dame Carol Robinson. I do hope you'll join us.

我是汉娜·弗莱。我是雅罗·布林。我们《奇案追踪》新一季又回来了。我们将调查你们提交的科学谜题。

I'm Hannah Fry. And I'm Jaro Breen. And we are back for another series of Curious Cases. Where we investigate the scientific mysteries sent in by you.

乌鸦能产生复杂情感吗？当我们坠入爱河时，大脑会发生什么变化？

Are crows capable of complex emotions? What happens to our brains when we fall in love?

我一直好奇人为什么要说谎？

And I was wondering why do we lie?

我觉得我是

I think I'm

可能是MDU，达拉。你怎么知道？

on might be MDU, Dara. How would you know?

这正是骗子会说的话。

That's what a liar would say.

我们通过大胆实验和专家见解来探索宇宙奥秘。BBC广播四台《奇案追踪》节目。现已在BBC Sounds上线。

We tackle the mysteries of the universe through audacious experiments and expert insight. Curious Cases on Radio four. And available now on BBC Sounds.