杰西·巴克利，演员

你好，我是劳伦·拉弗恩，欢迎收听BBC广播四台的《荒岛唱片》节目。

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio four.

每周我都会邀请嘉宾选择八首他们若被流放到荒岛时想带上的歌曲、一本书和一件奢侈品。

Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island.

由于版权原因，此处播放的音乐片段比原始广播版本要短，但你可以在BBC Sounds上找到包含完整音乐版本的节目。

For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds.

听众还能比其他人提前28天收听到节目。

Listeners will also get access to episodes twenty eight days earlier than everyone else.

希望你们喜欢收听。

I hope you enjoy listening.

本周的嘉宾是演员兼歌手杰西·巴克利。

My castaway this week is the actor and singer Jessie Buckley.

她17岁时首次通过参加BBC的一档才艺节目而广为人知。

She first came to public attention singing on a BBC talent show when she was just 17.

她虽然没有获胜，但节目的名称却意外地应验了。

She didn't win, but its title proved prophetic.

她从‘我愿意做任何事’成长为一位真正有能力的表演者，被广泛认为是同代中最富多面性的演员之一。

She went from I'd do anything to being a performer who really can, widely regarded as one of the most versatile actors of her generation.

除了获得劳伦斯·奥利弗奖和水星音乐奖提名外，她最近还凭借在《哈姆内特》中的主演角色赢得了金球奖和英国电影学院奖。

In addition to her Olivier Award and a place on the Mercury Prize shortlist, she recently won a Golden Globe and a BAFTA for her starring role in Hamnet.

她对莎士比亚妻子阿格尼斯的广受好评的表演，也为她赢得了第二个奥斯卡提名。

Her critically acclaimed performance as Shakespeare's wife, Agnes, has also secured her an Oscar nomination, her second.

在凯里郡长大时，创造力是她家庭的首要语言。

Growing up in County Kerry, creativity was her family's first language.

她的父亲写诗，母亲则是一位歌手和竖琴演奏家。

Her father wrote poetry, and her mother was a singer and harpist.

看到自己能够打动他人至落泪，让杰西也渴望站上舞台，尽管她从未想过这会带她走这么远。

Watching her ability to move people to tears made Jessie want to get up on stage two, though she never dreamed it would take her quite this far.

她说：‘我生命中经历了许多美好的时刻，而所有这些我都是以天真和无知的心态去经历的。’

She says, I've had amazing moments in my life, and all of them I've gone into quite innocently and ignorantly.

我简直不敢相信自己有多幸运。

I can't believe how lucky I've been.

杰西·巴克利，欢迎来到《荒岛唱片》。

Jessie Buckley, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

哦，非常感谢你。

Oh, thank you so much.

我真的很荣幸能登上这个节目。

That was I'm so honoured to be on this.

我们非常高兴你能来。

Well, we're delighted to have you.

这只是你近期作品的一小部分。

And it's just a short list of what you've been working on.

我的天，有太多话题可以聊了。

I mean, so much to talk about.

但我想我们应该从《哈姆内特》开始，恭喜你获得奥斯卡提名。

But I think we should start with Hamnet, and huge congratulations on the Oscar nomination.

你是怎么得知这个消息的？

How did you find out?

哦，我当时刚把车收拾好，准备和丈夫还有宝宝一起回诺福克老家，她有点烦躁，因为我还没给她喂奶。就在这时，宣布消息了，我一只手欢呼，另一只手还拿着奶瓶。

Oh, I had just packed up my car to go back home up to Norfolk with my husband and my baby and she was a bit ratty because I hadn't given her a bottle yet And the announcement came on and I was, you know, cheering in one hand and holding a bottle in the other.

然后我还得做一场给美国新闻的现场采访。

And then I had to do like a live interview for US news.

我想第一个传出来的声音可能是她为要奶瓶而嚎叫。

I think the first song that came out was her kind of howling for her bottle.

人人都爱当评论家。

Everyone's a critic.

听我说，我觉得

Look, I think

他们以为我是在为喜悦而嚎叫，但其实不是，她才不在乎呢。

they thought I was howling for joy, but I was like, no, she doesn't care.

她只是想要她的奶瓶。

She just wants her bottle.

最棒的是，家里有些人——我觉得是我叔叔发给我一个视频片段，里面有个在我们家酒吧里的男人说：天哪，我压根不会押她能成功。

And the beautiful thing, there's people back home who I think my uncle sent me one clip and there was like some guy in the bar, my family's bar going, Jesus, I wouldn't put a bet on her at all.

我对她一无所知，但祝你好运。

I don't have a clue about her at all, but sure best of luck.

做真实的自己就好。

Just take you for what you are.

他们就是这样的，你知道的，我特别喜欢这一点。

Like, they don't, you know, and I love that.

我特别喜欢这一点。

I love that about it.

是的。

Yeah.

看着这一切发生真是太棒了。

It's been wonderful to watch it all happening.

你知道，这部电影显然深深打动了很多人。

And, you know, the film obviously is really connected with people.

拍摄时，你特意选择住在偏远的牧羊人小屋。

When you were making it, you actually chose to stay in quite a remote Shepherd's Hut.

他们本可以给你安排一家配备所有便利设施的酒店，但你却说：我做不到。

They'd put you up in a hotel with all mod cons, but you were like, I can't do this.

你为什么这么做？

Why did you do that?

你知道吗，像那样置身大自然中，对你的创作有什么影响？

And you know, what did it do for you creatively to be in nature like that?

嗯，我是在大自然中长大的。

Well, I grew up in nature.

你知道，我在凯里郡的基拉尼长大，四周都是山和湖泊，我深知大自然能带给人什么。

You know, I grew up in Killarney in County Kerry and we're surrounded by mountains and lakes and I understand what nature can give you.

你知道，在大自然中有一种自由感，而我很幸运，能带着工作四处旅行，体验了这么多事物。

You know, there is a freedom by being in nature and I've been so lucky to travel with my work and experience so many things.

但我觉得酒店房间非常孤独。

But I find hotel rooms very lonely.

我曾经住在环岛边上的一家酒店里。

And I was in a hotel on a roundabout.

那家酒店大得惊人，有十层楼，四个不同的餐厅，还有射箭和游泳池。

There was it was like a humongous hotel like there was 10 floors and four different restaurants and archery and swimming pools.

我当时在十楼，就是待不下去。

I was like on the 10th Floor and I just couldn't be there.

我记得我在荒无人烟的地方找到了一间牧羊人的小屋。

And I remember I found this shepherd's house in the middle of nowhere.

我就对制作团队说：对不起，我真的很想去那间牧羊人的小屋。

And I just said to production, I'm sorry, I really have to go to the Shepherd's house.

我的司机在排练结束后，开着车在漆黑的夜里送我去那里。

And my lovely driver is driving me up like after rehearsals in the pitch black.

他问我：你确定你一个人在这儿能行吗？

He was like, are you sure you're going to be okay up here?

我说：我在这儿会好得很。

And I was like, I'm going to be so fine up here.

有时候，你只是需要一些简单的东西。

And sometimes you just need simple things.

杰西，正如我们今天将听到的，音乐在你的故事中是第一位的。

Jessie, music came first in your story as we will hear today.

当然，你正在与我们分享你的唱片。

And of course you're sharing your discs with us.

你是一位歌手、词曲作者，会弹钢琴、竖琴、单簧管和萨克斯管。

You are a singer, songwriter, you play the piano, the harp, the clarinet and the saxophone.

音乐仍然是你日常生活中重要的一部分吗？

Is music still a big part of your day to day life?

我觉得我的萨克斯演奏水平非常……嗯，我提到这个时你皱眉了。

I think my saxophone skills are very Yeah, you winced when

我提到这一点时。

I mentioned this.

她就像一位很久没碰过乐器的女士一样。

She wins like a lady who hasn't picked up a set in a way.

非常非常低。

Very, very low.

我可能还能弹奏八级的钢琴曲目，但在我爱尔兰成长过程中，父母带给我的音乐充满了快乐、情感和自由。

And I can probably still play my grade eight piano pieces, but there's a lot of joy and a lot of emotion and a lot of freedom in the music that I inhabited from my parents growing up in Ireland.

我对此心怀感激。

And I'm so grateful for that.

我们迫不及待想深入聆听，所以我觉得我们直接开始吧。

Well we can't wait to dive in so I think we should just get started.

告诉我们你今天的第一个选择吧，杰西·巴克利，会是哪一首？

Tell us about your first choice today, Jessie Buckley, what's it gonna be?

他们叫The Gloaming，这首歌叫《Sour Soura》，在盖尔语中，'sour'意思是夏天。

The Gloaming they're called and this song is called Sour Soura and sour in Gaelic means summer.

我们小时候，海边有一辆房车，我们家有七口人。

And when we were young, we had a caravan by the sea and there's seven of us in our family.

我是五个孩子中的老大。

I'm the oldest of five.

每年夏天，我们全家都会去沿海的一个叫Ballon Skelligs的地方度假，那里的水总是冰凉刺骨。

And we'd all every summer bottled down to this place called Ballon Skelligs on the coast And the water was always freezing.

我爸爸会去划独木舟，钓些鲭鱼，然后回来把鲭鱼的头砍掉，放进那个快要散架的烤箱里。

My dad would go and canoe and he'd like catch mackerel and then he'd come back and like chop the head off the mackerel and put it into the like oven that was falling apart.

那也是一个非常特别的地方，沿着海岸有一座叫基里利格的艺术村，一位名叫诺尔·坎贝尔·夏普的女性将一座旧饥荒村庄改造成了艺术居所。

And it was also an incredible place because up the coast there was this artist village called Kilrielig which this woman, Noelle Campbell Sharp, had renovated this old famine village on the edge of the cliff.

我想那是我第一次真正接触到艺术家。

And I think it was the first time I like was experiencing artists.

他们就像是些神秘的存在，会消失在那些古老的屋子里。

Know, were like these kind of exotic creatures that would disappear into these old hearts.

我妈妈是位竖琴家，有时会被允许租下其中一间饥荒时期的屋子，待上一周专心创作音乐。

And my mom, who's a harpist, sometimes got allowed to take one of these famine houses for a week and work on her music.

无论如何，有一座小山通往那个饥荒村庄——也就是那个艺术家避世之所。

And anyway, there's this hill that leads up to that famine village, this artist retreat.

当你登上山顶，就会进入另一个海湾，叫费尼安湾，俯瞰着斯凯利格岩石，那是在大西洋中央一座令人惊叹的、宛如纪念碑般的巨石，曾经有修士在那里生活。

And as you crest the hill, you come over into this other bay called Fenians Bay, looks out on the Skellig Rocks, which is this amazing, like monumental ornament in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean where monks used to live.

当我们翻过这座山时，总会播放这首歌。

And we used to play this song when we used to crest over this mountain.

这让我立刻回到了童年，回到了那种简单、美丽，以及从山间、这些小屋、我妈妈、鱼和爱中自然流淌出来的表达。

And so this just brings me right back to my childhood and the simplicity and the beauty and the like expression that was like just pouring out of the mountain and all these little hearts and my mom and the fish and love.

《暮色》中的酸味。

Sour, Sour by the Gloaming.

正如你提到的，杰西·巴克利，你于1989年出生在凯里郡的基拉尼，是五个孩子中的长女。

So Jessie Buckley, as you mentioned, you were born in Killarney, County Kerry in 1989, and you're the eldest of five.

你的家人 apparently 被邻居们戏称为‘冯·特拉普家族’。

Your family was apparently nicknamed the Von Trapps by by your neighbors.

能跟我多讲讲这个吗？

Tell me more about that.

我爸爸以前经营一家招待所，我们全家都参与接待和服务前来旅游的客人。

My dad used to run a guesthouse and we were all part of like serving and the entertainment for the tourists that would come in

和离开。

and out.

好的，我们先停一下，你说的‘娱乐’，是为游客提供些什么？

Okay, going to just stop you at entertainment, which for the tourists, which involved what?

你得做些什么？

What did you have to do?

我的意思是，当然要跳爱尔兰舞，但我的上半身简直是最差的爱尔兰舞者，因为你得

I mean Irish dancing, obviously, even though I was to my to my hands where I was the worst Irish dancer in the world because you've

上半身得保持静止，对吧？

got to keep still up top, right?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我体内有太多东西了。

I mean, I just was like, I've got so much in me.

释放出来吧。

Let it out.

我们那时候没有搞什么正式的演出，爸妈去散步时，我们就把所有靠垫都拿下来，我可怜的哥哥会被裹在一张床单里。

And we didn't like, you know, there was no put shows on all that mom and dad would go for a walk and we'd take all the cushions off and my poor brother be like wrapped in some sheet.

直到我对他演的那个角色感到厌倦了，我就把床单拿过来，自己扮演那个角色。

And until I got bored of him playing that, then take the sheet and I'd be that character.

但那充满了表现力，钱根本无关紧要。

But it was just so full of expression and money didn't matter.

你知道，如果你在生活、在体验、在好奇，那就是灵魂富有的全部意义。

Know, if you were living and you were experiencing and you were curious, that was all that was counted as being rich for your soul.

所以这才是重要的。

So that's what mattered.

再跟我讲讲你的父母吧。

And tell me more about your parents then.

你的妈妈玛丽娜受过歌剧演唱训练，还是一位职业竖琴演奏家。

So your mom, Marina, trained as an opera singer and was a professional harpist.

她是个什么样的人？

What kind of person is she?

你如何形容她？

How would you describe her?

我妈妈是一位非常非凡的女性。

My mom is a pretty extraordinary woman.

我现在有点情绪激动了。

I'm getting emotional now.

她有一种自信，尽管她展现出一种非常细腻而开放的自我。

There's a confidence about her even though she has this very delicate kind of available self.

她最近彻底改变了生活，重返大学，重新培训成为音乐心理治疗师，现在为新生儿和临终关怀患者提供服务。

And she's recently changed her life and gone back to university and retrained as a music psychotherapist and works for with neonatal babies and palliative care and people in palliative care.

我的父母已经不再在一起了。

And my parents are no longer together.

她住在都柏林，目前正在书写自己的故事。

And she lives in Dublin and she's writing her own story right now.

在60岁的年纪，我为她感到无比骄傲。

And at 60 years of age, I'm so proud of her.

我觉得她非同寻常。

I think she's extraordinary.

情感上的开放性这个概念很有趣，因为演员们经常提到这种特质。

And that idea of emotional availability is interesting because that's a quality that actors talk about a lot.

这是他们一直在努力追求的东西。

It's something they're always trying to achieve.

听上去，你妈妈一直都有这种特质。

So your mom, by the sound of it, has always had that.

你一直都能在她身上看到这一点。

And you always saw that in her.

当我看到她在教堂唱歌时，我感受到她有一种通过歌声讲述故事的迫切需求。

What I saw in her when she sang in church was this need to tell a story through song.

她唱歌时，仿佛用尽生命一般。

She'd sing like it was going to cost her life.

她需要这样一个载体，去表达那些她在日常生活中可能无法言说的情感。

Know, she needed this vessel to express something that she probably wasn't able to share just walking around in life.

因为我会看到一种奇妙而奇特的无声对话在她和会众之间发生——仅仅通过歌声讲述这个故事，那些年迈的男性、女性、阿姨以及其他妻子们就会走上前来，眼中含着泪水，而我就会想：到底发生了什么？

Because I'd see this very magical, strange kind of unspoken conversation happen between her and the congregation where like just from telling this story through song, these old men and women and aunts and other, you know, wives would come up and they just have tears in their eyes and I'd be like, what's happened?

就是那一刻，我决定我也要这样做。

That's when I thought I want to do that.

我想和人们进行这样的对话。

I want to have that conversation with people.

你小时候去过剧院吗？

Did you get to go to the theatre when you were little?

你还记得看过什么戏剧吗？

Do you remember seeing any plays?

你看过的第一部戏是哪一部？

Your first play?

哦，是的，当然去过。

Oh yeah, yeah.

他们带我去看的第一部戏是在我家乡的市政厅上演的《耶稣基督超级巨星》。

The first play they ever took me to was in my local town hall in the Oris Podrick and it was Jesus Christ Superstar.

我被这部剧深深打动，真的以为有人在我眼前被钉在了十字架上。

And I was so transported by watching this production that I genuinely thought a man had been crucified in front of my eyes

在结尾时我

at I the end of the

我被吓坏了，劳伦。

was traumatized, Lauren.

我当时躺在地上哭，我妈妈可能因为尴尬，或者我爸爸不得不问，能不能带我 backstage 去见扮演耶稣的迈克·墨菲。

I was like on the floor sobbing and my mom, probably out of embarrassment or my dad had to ask, could they bring me backstage to meet Mike Murphy, who had played Jesus

让我知道

to show me that

他没事。

he was Okay.

那是我第一次窥见幕后的真相，你知道吗？戏剧的魔力——我竟然在颤抖着握住那个在我眼前复活的人的手，我想：哦，原来如此，戏剧的种子就这样种下了。

And that was like the first kind of peek behind the curtain, you know, that the magic of theater, like I was shaking this man who'd resurrected in front of my eyes, hands, like I was like, oh, this is so The bug bit you.

种下了。

Bit me.

但那感觉也太真实了。

But also it was so real.

那次经历如此完整。

That experience was so total.

这件事以某种形式发生过。

It had happened in some shape or form.

杰西，我们去听音乐吧。

Jessie, think we should go to the music.

我真期待今天听到你的第二张专辑。

I can't wait to hear your second disc today.

会是什么样的呢？

What's it going to be?

这非常特别，因为这是我妈妈在唱歌。

This is very special because this is my mom singing.

对不起。

Sorry.

没关系。

It's okay.

在教堂里唱《圣夜》。

Oh Holy Night in church.

我非常喜欢这首音乐，因为它让我深深想起圣诞节回家、全家团聚的时光。

I love this piece of music so much because it really reminds me of coming home for Christmas and us being together as a family.

我真的非常怀念那一刻。

And I really, really miss this moment.

所以如果我被困在荒岛上，我想我会至少每小时播放一次这首曲子，好让我感觉家人就在身边。

And so if I'm on that desert island, I think I'll have to play this at least hourly to make me feel like my family are around me.

《圣善夜》，由你的妈妈杰西·巴克利，玛丽娜·卡西迪在基拉尼当地教堂演唱。

Oh holy night, your mum Jessie Buckley, Marina Cassidy singing in her local church in Killarney.

那么杰西，跟我多讲讲你爸爸蒂姆吧。

So Jessie, tell me a little bit more about your dad, Tim.

你小时候，他经营着一家招待所。

He ran a guesthouse when you were growing up.

他现在是凯里郡的一名酒吧经理，同时也是一位诗人。

He's now bar manager in County Kerry but also a poet.

他写的是什么样的诗？

What type of poetry does he write?

我的意思是，我甚至不知道那属于哪种类型。

I mean I don't even know what kind of type it is.

我觉得那是从他灵魂的核心自然流露出来的，你知道的。

I think it's just from the like epicenter of his soul, you know.

我爸爸在很多方面都比较内向，但同时也狂野不羁。

He's kind of shy in many ways, my dad, but wild and feral too.

他会是那种会和我们一起在芬尼安湾冲浪或玩板式冲浪的人，就是我之前提到的那个地方。

And he'd be the kind of man who'd like, we go surfing or boogie boarding in that place in Finian's Bay that I was talking about.

你知道，如果水流很强，他会说：那就游得再用力点。

And, you know, if there was a strong current, he'd be like, well, swim harder.

就像，你得学会，最非凡的父亲会说，嗯，如果当时是五点的话。

Like, you have to learn the most extraordinary dads would, you know, well, if it was five a.

嗯。

M.

如果有游泳课，他会起床，开车送我，你知道的，半小时到下一个镇上，参加游泳队。

And there was a swimming lesson, he'd be up and he'd drive me, you know, half an hour to the next town to be part of a swim team.

他是个了不起的厨师，一直都是。

As like an amazing cook, like he was the cook always was.

前几天我们在家庭群聊里笑个不停，因为他总能找到一些稀奇古怪的东西，比如杨桃，然后带去客房。

We were laughing on our family group chat the other day because he would always find exotic things like star fruit and bring it into the guest house.

我们总是被杨桃或香料完全吸引住。

We'd be just completely beguiled by the star fruit or spices.

你知道，他一直像个艺术家，一个真正的创作者。

Know, he was just always kind of like artist, a real true creative.

天生具有创造力。

Intrinsically creative.

发自他的内心，你知道的。

In his heart, you know.

他的诗歌是他最深刻的表达。

And his poetry, it's his biggest expression.

每次我们见面，你知道的，有时候你没有空间去说那些想对彼此说的话。

And any time we see each other, you know, sometimes you don't have the space to say the things that you want to say to each other.

但当我们分别后，他经常会发一首诗，里面包含了所有未曾说出口的话，以及我们之间潜藏的情感。

But after we have, you know, parted, he'll often send a poem which contains everything that was unsaid or what lives between us.

我想，父亲的话语或许预示了我初遇莎士比亚时的体验，因为那些文字仿佛深不见底，无穷无尽。

I guess dad's words I think probably prefaced what I experienced when I met Shakespeare because words, those words had like bottom where they were bottomless.

那你呢？

And what about you?

你还记得第一次登上舞台表演是什么时候吗？

Do you remember the first time you got up on stage and performed?

我记得我参加过本地业余剧团的一部剧作。

I remember I did a production in in my local amateur dramatics.

我不记得演的是什么了，但我记得当时阑尾几乎要在舞台上炸开，可我还是心想：我绝不退场。

I can't remember what it was, but I remember my appendix nearly burst on stage and I was like, I am not leaving.

我一定要把这场演出演完，回家后才去医院，结果阑尾真的被切除了。

I'm not leaving until I finished this show and went home and then ended up going to hospital and my appendix out.

那感觉就像喝水一样自然。

It was like drinking water.

我只是觉得，我做得越多，就越意识到这对我来说是必不可少的。

Just think the more I did it, more I realised this is essential to me.

杰西，我想我们现在该放点音乐了。

Jessie, I think we should have some more music now.

这是你今天播放的第三首曲子了。

This is your third track today.

接下来我们要听什么？为什么你要把它带到你的荒岛上去？

What are we going to hear next and why are you taking it with you to your desert island?

哦，我觉得妮娜·西蒙是根本性的、不妥协的、强烈的、充满情感的，而这首歌是她演唱的桑迪·丹尼的《谁知道时间去了哪里》。

Oh, I mean, I feel like Nina Simone is elemental, uncompromising, fierce, emotional and this piece, it's her singing Who Knows Where the Time Goes by Sandy Denny.

我拍过一部叫《野玫瑰》的电影，拍完之后，我不想做普通的宣传，于是就保留了电影里的乐队，我们进行了一次小型巡演。

And I did a film called Wild Rose and after I did the film, I didn't want to really do normal publicity so I kept the band going from the film and we went on a little tour.

你扮演了一位年轻的单亲妈妈，一位来自格拉斯哥的乡村歌手。

You played a country singer, a young single mom who's a Glaswegian country singer.

那是个囚犯。

It's a convict.

她层次丰富，这部电影太棒了。

She's many layered, it's a great film.

实际上，我们曾经在都柏林的芒乔监狱举办过一场演出，我长期以来一直与都柏林的一个慈善机构马特·塔尔博特有联系，该机构帮助有成瘾问题的人以及刚出狱的人重新融入社会。

And actually one of the places we did a gig was in Mountjoy Prison in Dublin And I've had a long connection with this charity called the Matt Talbot in Dublin who helps people with addiction and also people coming out of the judicial system to reintegrate them into society.

我在芒乔监狱的一座教堂里为男性终身监禁犯人举办了一场演出。

And I did a gig for male lifers in this church in Mount Joy Prison.

我记得唱这首歌时，所有面孔都抬头望着我，那是一个充满人性的时刻——无论我们一生中做过什么，我们都有自己的故事，这是一种伟大的平等力量，让你永远不会孤单。

And I remember singing this song and all these faces like looking up and it was, you know, just a moment of humanity where whatever we've done in our life, you know, we all have stories and it's a kind of great equalizer that you're never alone, you know.

我非常珍视这首歌，我爱这个版本。

And I just hold this song very, very dearly and I love this version.

妮娜·西蒙演唱的《谁知晓时光去向》。

Nina Simone with Who Knows Where the Time Goes.

所以，杰西·巴克利，当你11岁的时候，你去蒂珀雷里的修道院寄宿学校了。

So Jessie Buckley, when you were 11, you went off to board at Convent School in Tipperary.

你对那段经历有什么记忆？

What do you remember about that?

这么小就离家，尤其是你显然深爱的这样一个充满爱的家庭，真是不容易。

It's that young to leave home, especially such a loving home that you obviously adored.

首先，那是一所了不起的音乐学校，我主要是为了音乐去的，因为那里有机会参与管弦乐队、学习钢琴，而且老师都非常出色。

Firstly, it was an incredible music school and I was kind of there for that because is opportunity to be part of orchestras and piano and there was brilliant teachers there.

但除此之外，我在那里的经历也让我获得了自信和独立，如果没有那段经历，我可能不会在17岁时有勇气搬到伦敦。我对那些修女们有着非常美好的回忆。

But there was also something about being there that I think if I hadn't gone I probably wouldn't have had the confidence and independence to move to London when I was 17, And you I have very happy memories of the nuns.

她们非常了不起，是有趣的人，而且特别支持我。

They were incredible, like interesting people, really supportive.

我在那里有一位了不起的老师，叫玛丽·巴特勒，她非常鼓励我从事戏剧，我们经常排演一些精彩的话剧。

I had an incredible teacher there called Mary Butler who really, really encouraged me in doing theatre and we used to do these amazing shows.

到了三年级，你就可以参与这些话剧演出。

Once you got to third year you could be part of the shows.

你当时演的是什么角色？

What kind of parts were you playing?

我演的都是男性角色。

Well I played all the male parts.

我为此而活。

I lived for it.

后来有一段时间我身体很不好，变得非常抑郁，完全迷失了自我，这种状态以多种方式表现出来。

And then there was a period of time where I really wasn't very well and I got very depressed and just got very lost in myself and it kind of showed itself in many ways.

你知道的，我没有善待自己的身体。

I you know, wasn't kind to my body.

我变得非常焦虑。

I got very anxious.

我无法去上学。

I wasn't able to be in school.

我小时候和青少年时期脾气非常暴烈。

I was volcanic as a child and as a teenager.

我内心充满了强烈的情感。

I had so much feeling in me.

我不知道该如何处理这些情绪。

I didn't know what to do with it.

我认为我的教育也只是你的一小部分。

And I think also my education was just a slice of you.

如果我们能拥有你的一小部分，那就足够了。

If we can have just a slice of you, that will be enough.

别太多，你知道的。

And don't be too much, you know.

我只是感觉热血沸腾。

And I just felt on fire.

我当时就想，你这是什么意思？

I was like what do you mean?

你说的‘变小’是什么意思？

What do you mean be small?

我这些感受可一点都不小。

Like these are not small feelings I've got going on.

我在学校里发现，我就是没法线性地学习，你知道的。

I found learning in school, I just couldn't learn linearly you know.

我记得自己对唱歌、钢琴以及我的音乐和创造力有一种强烈的保护欲。

And I remember feeling so protective of singing and piano of my music and my creativity.

我每天早上五点就醒来。

And I'd wake up at five a.

早上。

M.

然后我会偷偷拿走音乐教室的钥匙，溜进音乐教室。

In the morning and I'd like steal the key to the music room and go into the music room.

我只是想一个人待着。

I wanted to just be on my own.

把一切都释放出来。

Let it all out.

你说当你抑郁的时候，你对自己不够温柔，对身体也不够温柔。

You said that when you were depressed you weren't kind to yourself, you weren't kind to your body.

我的意思是，如果你愿意谈一谈，你当时经历了什么？你是怎么好起来的？

I mean if you are able to talk about it, what were you going through and how did you get better?

你必须回家疗养和恢复吗？

Did you have to go home to heal and recover?

我患有饮食失调，这需要时间，也需要很多帮助。

Well I had an eating disorder and it took time and it took a lot of help.

而且我当时还患有抑郁症，我只是不知道该如何以我想要的方式活着。

And also it was depression so I would like, I mean I just probably I didn't know how to be alive the way I wanted to be.

这很艰难，但我从未后悔过，我认为我能够转化自己，认识到我们作为人类在世上的脆弱性。

And it was difficult but I do not for a second regret it and I think I've been able to transform us and recognize our vulnerabilities as humans in the world.

你知道，你不可能在人生中行走而不受影响，但你可以将这种影响转化为让你以自己想要的方式更人性化、更充满生机的力量。

Know, you can't walk through life not being affected, but you can transform that into something that allows you to be more human and alive in the way that you want to be.

我非常感激一路上帮助过我的每一个人，以及那些为我提供支持空间的人。

And I'm very grateful for everybody who helped me along the way with that and for the people who held space for that.

很多人，比如修女们，都非常了不起。

So many people like the nuns were incredible.

我的家人也非常了不起。

My family were incredible.

我的意思是，我觉得家人经历这一切非常艰难，你知道的。

I mean, I think it's very difficult for a family to go through that, you know.

我从不希望看到自己的女儿陷入那样的境地。

I think it's you never want to see your daughter in that place.

我从17岁就开始接受心理治疗。

Therapists, I've been in therapy since I was 17.

我到现在每周都还在接受治疗。

I still go every week.

搬到伦敦的时候，我知道我还没真正走出困境。

And moving to London, know, when I moved to London I still wasn't out of the woods.

我曾有过这样的时刻：如果在这里我依然无法好转，如果不能继续做音乐、参与戏剧，我就再也做不下去了，可能连命都保不住。

And I think there was moments where I was like, if I don't get better here, this music, this being part of theatre, I'm not going to be able to do this anymore and I probably won't survive.

真正让我转变想法的是：我不想放弃这一切。

And that was like the thing that turned it in my head was like I don't want to sacrifice that.

这比那更重要，而且我赢了。

This is bigger than that and it won.

我们稍后会了解你接下来采取的步骤，杰西，但我觉得我们应该再放点音乐。

We'll find out the next steps that you took in a moment Jessie, but I think we should have some more music.

这是你今天选的第四首歌。

This is your fourth choice today.

接下来是谁？为什么？

Who's next and why?

怀着无比的自豪和对这位女性辛妮德·奥康纳的深深感激。

Oh, with utter pride and with absolute gratitude to this woman, Sinead O'Connor.

她在这整个事情中非常有趣，因为当我年轻成长时，我清楚记得人们总是告诫我要小心她，你知道的。

And she's so interesting around all of this because when I was young growing up, like I really remember the rhetoric being told of her to be very careful of her, know.

她很危险。

She's dangerous.

几年前我参与了一部《歌厅》的制作，那时我突然对她产生了兴趣。

And then a few years ago I did a production of Cabaret and I just got curious about her.

我当时就想，我就是需要她。

I was like, I just needed her.

我听了她所有的作品。

And I just listened to everything.

我读了她的书。

I read her books.

我观看了令人惊叹的凯瑟琳·弗格森纪录片。

I watched the incredible Katherine Ferguson documentary.

然后，我清楚地看到了她作为一个革命者的模样——她始终发自内心地保护着生命中最脆弱的部分。

And then like clear as day I could just see the revolutionary that she was who always acted from her heart to protect the most vulnerable parts of what it is to be alive.

我真心相信，她留下的遗产是不朽的。

And I really do believe that the legacy that she has left is immortal.

我有幸在RTE的文化之夜演唱了这首歌《Troy》，以此向已故的西娜德·奥康纳致敬。

And I had the real privilege of singing this song Troy on culture night on RTE and it was a tribute to Sinead O'Connor after she passed away.

我从未如此坚定地想要为西娜德演唱这首歌。

And I've never felt more, like, determined to sing it for Sinead.

我需要这首歌，需要这片土地，像对月亮嚎叫一样，说一声：谢谢。

I need this song and this island to, like, howl at the moon and say, thank you.

特洛伊，西娜德·奥康纳。

Troy, Sinead O'Connor.

杰西·巴克利，到你17岁的时候，你就离开爱尔兰去吉尔福德表演学院试镜了。

Jessie Buckley, by the time you were 17, you'd left Ireland to audition at the Guildford School of Acting.

结果怎么样？

How did it go?

哦，糟糕透了。

Oh, terribly.

抱歉。

Sorry.

他们连门都不让我进。

They didn't let me in the door.

他们说：不行。

They were like, no.

还没准备好。

Not ready.

那真是一次宝贵的教训。

And it was a great lesson.

你得学会随机应变。

You have to kind of roll with the punches.

有时候，你真的还没准备好迎接那个时刻。

And sometimes you're just not ready, really for that moment.

所以那扇门关上了，但另一扇门很快就打开了，对吧？

So that door closed but another one opened pretty swiftly afterwards didn't it?

接下来发生了什么？

What happened next?

是的，就在同一个周末，我去参加吉尔福德的试镜时，还有一场BBC真人秀《我什么都愿意做》的公开试镜，由安德鲁·劳埃德·韦伯、卡梅隆·麦金托什、巴里·汉弗莱斯、约翰·巴尔曼和丹妮丝·范·奥滕主持。

Yeah, well that same weekend that I was over to audition to get into Guildford, there was an open audition for a BBC reality show called I Do Anything with Andrew Lloyd Webber and Cameron Mackintosh and Barry Humphries and John Barman and Denise Van Oten.

我记得我排在南岸郡市政厅外的队伍里。

And I remember you I joined the queue outside the county town hall in the South Bank.

所以他们是在为《奥利弗》的西区制作寻找南希这个角色？

So they were looking for a Nancy to star in the West End production of Oliver?

没错。

That's right.

是的，是的，是的。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

最后得了第二名。

And ended up coming second.

所以你去排队了。

So you got in line.

你有回看过吗？

Mean have you watched any of it back?

有一阵子没看了。

Not for a while.

不过我真的很喜欢那个小女孩。

I love that little girl though.

我爱她。

I love her.

我感到非常有感情，因为我确实在这之前回去看过。

I felt very affectionate because I did go and watch it back before this.

我的意思是，你当时还是个小孩子。

I mean, you were such a baby.

你那时候太小了。

You were so little.

那对你意义重大。

And it meant so much.

我当时非常脆弱。

I was so raw.

而且你还如此公开地做这件事。

And you're doing it so publicly as well.

但那正是那个词，对吧？

That was the word though, isn't it?

看的时候，我感受到的就是这个。

That was the thing I felt watching it.

你能感受到你对它的渴望。

You can feel you wanting it.

还有那些严厉的批评，那时候的环境也不同。

And the critiques, which were harsh and the times were different.

现在电视上，人们大概不会这样对一个这么小的女孩说话了。

People probably wouldn't talk to such a young girl in that way now on TV.

就好像，你知道的，我们得让你看起来更女人味一些，而你当时穿着六英寸的高跟鞋，说你要开始学习如何移动。

Kind of like, oh, you know, we've got to get you looking womanly and you were there with six inch heels on saying that you were going to start to learn I to move know.

所有这些。

Like a All of that.

你知道，是

You know, is

我不喜欢这部分。

I don't like that part of it.

我觉得那也是一个正在探索自己身体和自我的年轻女孩，就像我们成长过程中都会做的那样。

And I think like that was also a young woman who was trying to discover her body and herself like we all do, know, as growing up.

我希望那件事没有发生，我觉得我当时强装镇定，因为实际上我只想唱歌。

And I wish that hadn't happened and I think I was putting a brave face on because really what I wanted to do was sing.

我真正想的是表演，想成为这个行业的一部分，但突然间你必须成为某种特定类型的人，而我根本不是那样的人，你知道的，我永远都不会是。

And really I wanted to act and I wanted to be part of this industry and all of a sudden you had to be a certain kind of person And I just wasn't, you know, I never will be.

那根本不是我。

That's just not me.

我心里燃烧着、撕裂着，心想：天啊，你怎么做到的？

And inside I'm on fire and raw and I'm like, shit, how do you do that?

就像把自己硬塞进那种水 cooler 的形象里。

Like bringing in the kind of water cooler onto myself.

我为那个女孩感到无比自豪。

I'm so proud of that girl.

我觉得她做得很好，我一点也不后悔那段经历。

I think she did great and I don't regret any of it.

那正是带我来到伦敦的原因。对于那些可能缺乏敏感度、无法认识到那远不止是物化一个年轻女孩的人，也许现在你们能明白了，我希望这样的事再也不要发生在另一个年轻女孩身上。

It was what brought me to London and I think for the people who maybe didn't have the sensitivity or to recognise what was bigger than objectifying that young girl, Maybe you can now and I hope that doesn't ever happen to another young girl at that age.

我觉得女性很美，无论什么身材体型，这正是我热爱自己所做之事的原因。

And I think women are beautiful, all shapes and sizes and that's what I love about what I do, know.

那些一直让我惊叹的人，都是完全做自己的人，从未迎合过所谓成功或女性在世界中的标准。

The people that have continued to blow my mind have been absolutely totally themselves and have never conformed to the idea of what it is to be successful or to be a woman in the world.

但公平地说，安德鲁·劳埃德·韦伯最后说，你已经拥有一切所需。

But to be fair, Andrew Lloyd Webber says at the end that you have everything you need.

哦，而且你不该被像他这样的人的意见所干扰。

Oh, And that you shouldn't be interfered with by the opinions of people like him.

我无法对安德鲁·劳埃德·韦伯、卡梅隆·麦金托什和巴里·汉姆弗里斯表达足够的感谢。

I cannot thank Andrew Lloyd Webber, Cameron Mackintosh or Barry Humphries enough.

我认为他们看穿了那些虚伪，直击了我想表达的核心。

I think they cut through that crap and got to the essence of what it is that I was trying to say.

他们在我一生中始终给予支持。

And they've been consistently supportive through my life.

我的意思是，卡梅隆·麦金托什在我从那部剧出来后，是他引荐我接触莎士比亚的。

I mean, Cameron Mackintosh, after I came out of that show, he was the one who introduced me to Shakespeare.

他非常友善地提出送我去RADA参加为期四周的莎士比亚课程，这彻底改变了我的人生。

He was very kindly offered to send me to RADA to do a four week Shakespeare course, which really changed my life.

那是一次

That was

转折点。

a turning point.

那是一个巨大的转折点。

That was a ginormous turning point.

那才是真正让我意识到自己是一名演员的时刻。

That was really the moment I recognised myself as an actress.

杰西·巴克利，我们再来点音乐吧。

Jessie Buckley, let's have some more music.

第五首，接下来是什么？

Number five, what's next?

哦，我会一遍又一遍地看朱迪·丹奇演唱《Sending the Clowns》，看上好几个小时。

Oh, well, I would watch Judi Dench sing Sending the Clowns on repeat for hours and hours.