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大家好。
Hello, everyone.
欢迎收听，或者再次欢迎来到《Detour》播客，今天我们聊的都是非传统成功和逆袭的故事。
Welcome or welcome back to the Detour podcast where we talk all things related to the topic of unconventional success and upcomings.
我是你们的主持人范加里，一个社区大学毕业生，梦想成为改变世界的企业家。
I'm your host, Gary Fan, a community college alumnus with aspirations of becoming a world changing business owner.
这期节目是第二季的第四集了。
This episode marks the fourth episode within the second season of the podcast.
今天，我请来了Evergreen Ithaca的创始人Hudson。
And today, I'm joined with the owner of Evergreen Ithaca, Hudson.
Hudson，欢迎来到我们的播客。
So, Hudson, welcome to the podcast.
能不能跟大家简单介绍一下你自己？你从哪儿来，有过什么经历？这样听众会更了解你。
If you wanna give a brief introduction as to who you are, where you come from, and a bit about your story, for the audience, that'd be beautiful.
好的。
Yeah.
大家好。
Hi everyone.
谢谢你，Gary，邀请我来做客。
Thank you Gary for having me on.
自从我知道你的播客，我就成了铁粉。
I've, you know, ever since I learned about your podcast, I've been a I've been a new fan.
简单说说我自己。
So a little about me.
我出生在加州。
I'm originally from California.
对。
Mhmm.
我在南加州长大。
I was born and raised there in Southern California.
我在那儿认识了我现在的妻子，但她其实是伊萨卡人。
I met my now wife out there, but she's from Ithaca.
哇哦。
Wow.
所以啊，我这辈子一直待在那儿，特别爱加州，但我和我老婆居然买下了房子，结果穷得叮当响，简直被房子压垮了。
So yeah, I've lived there my whole life, love California, but my wife and I, we were able to actually buy a house, it was just like, we were crazy house poor.
就是，有房子是有了，周末能去趟海滩，别的啥也干不了。
It was like, okay, we have a house, and we go to the beach on the weekends, that's about all we can really do.
是啊。
Yeah.
所以2020年全面封锁的时候，我们还真成了那种疯了般搬去奥斯汀的人。
So like when, you know, everything locked down in 2020, we actually were one of those crazy people that moved to the Austin area.
对。
Mhmm.
我们在那儿住了一年，然后就彻底受不了了，赶紧撤。
And we lived there for a year and then after that year we were like, we're getting the heck out of Dodge.
之后我们就重新琢磨，到底想在哪儿落脚，找一个真正契合我们、能代表我们未来生活、适合养孩子的地儿。
And then we kind of were rethinking like where do we want to actually be, you know, just kind of finding a place that really aligns with us and what we want our future to look like and our, you know, a place to raise a family.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗，我以前只来过伊萨卡一两次，都是夏天来的，当时就想着，为啥不来这儿呢？
And you know, I had only visited Ithaca once, maybe twice, but we came in the summertime, we were kinda just thinking about it, like, why not be here, you know?
夏天的伊萨卡美极了。
In the summer, it's beautiful in Ithaca.
哦，说不上来，我去过不少地方，但这里的夏春秋冬，真的特别美。
Oh, nothing, I mean, I've been to a lot of places, but like, summer, spring, summer, fall here is like, just gorgeous.
就是冬天太冷了。
Just not the winter time.
冬天其实也挺美的，
Winter winter is gorgeous too,
挺有意思的是，大家都知道我来自加州，
so it's funny because everyone thinks since I'm from California
对。
Yeah.
别人以为我从加州来，肯定受不了这儿，觉得我在雪地里准得崩溃。
That like I'm gonna hate it here or like, oh no, you must, you know, you must do horrible in the snow.
其实我对雪一点不反感。
It's like, I don't mind the snow at all.
挺好的，对吧？
It's nice, right?
是啊，挺好的。
It's nice.
我那两只狗可喜欢了。
Like, my dogs love it.
它们一出去就在雪地里撒欢儿，玩得可开心了。
My dogs, you know, go out and just play in the snow and stuff.
你说是不是？
It's like, have no I'm you know?
没冬天，哪来春天、夏天和秋天的美呢，对吧？
You have you have to you have to have the winter to have the beauty of spring, summer, and fall, so
是的
Yeah.
我超爱这个
I love it.
太美了
That's beautiful.
我完全能理解
Like, I can completely understand.
很多人一听说我从加州过来，住这儿，就觉得我肯定讨厌雪，但其实我觉得雪特别美，满地白白的、软软的，看着就让人心情好
I think a lot of people think about me going like, coming from California and being here, like and they're all like, oh, you must hate the snow too, but it's so beautiful and, like, pretty just seeing, like, all the white snow and all the fluff and stuff too.
所以
So
对
yeah.
没错
Yeah.
不过，咱们还是回到你的背景故事，说说Evergreen Ithaca是怎么来的吧。
But, I guess moving more towards, your backstory and kind of setting up Evergreen Ithaca.
如果你不介意的话，能再多讲讲你是怎么开始做Evergreen Ithaca的吗？这一直是你的梦想，还是慢慢积累才走到这一步的？
So if you don't mind telling a bit more about how you really got started with Evergreen Ithaca, has this always been a dream of yours or was there kind of like a build up in transitioning into Evergreen Ithaca?
其实从我18岁开始，一直到现在的28岁，我就没停过。
So pretty much ever since I was 18, from like eight, I'm 28 now.
对。
Mhmm.
说出来都觉得有点吓人，都十年了。
Which sounds crazy old when you say it out loud.
我18岁那会儿开始疯狂练CrossFit。
But when I was 18, I got into CrossFit heavy.
我这人就是这样，一旦在某件事上受伤了，脑子里就再也装不下别的了。
So I was pretty much, I'm the type of person that like once I get injured in something, I don't think about anything else.
对。
Mhmm.
我当时在圣地亚哥一家健身房做全职总教练。
And I was a full time head coach at a gym in San Diego.
我有个YouTube频道在发内容，还有个之前跟你说过的表情包账号，同时也在给健身房设计训练计划，简直从周日到周日，我的生活全被健身内容占满了。
I had a YouTube channel I was posting content, I had my meme page I was telling you about, and like I was programming for the gym that I was coaching at, so it was like literally Sunday to Sunday I was doing fitness related content and that's just what my life encompassed.
对。
Mhmm.
后来 lockdown 期间一切慢下来了，我就开始重新留意那些以前特别在意的事——小时候我特别关心动物之类的。
And then kinda like when everything slowed down during the lockdown, I was kinda just being more mindful of like things that I used to care about because growing up I used to care a lot about animals and stuff.
于是我就慢慢去了解环保、可持续发展这些事，结果一发不可收拾，现在我生活中每件事都会想想：我的碳足迹是多少？
So I started to get more about like understanding sustainability in our environments and different things like that and so then it kinda just went down that rabbit hole and now there's nothing that I don't do in my life that's, you know, I contemplate my carbon footprint.
怎么才能让自己的行为更环保。
Think about how I can be sustainable in my efforts.
是的。
Yeah.
所有这些方面我都开始在意了。
And all those different things.
有一天我老婆跟我聊起，说有人在网上卖二手衣服。
And so I kinda just like, one day my wife was telling me about, you know, people selling used clothes online.
我当时就愣了，啥？
And I was like, what?
我从来就不是个讲究穿搭的人。
And I had never been a fashionable person by any means.
平时随便套件T恤、穿条运动短裤，我就出门了。
Like I always have a person throw on a shirt, some gym shorts, and I'm good to go.
你现在可时髦多了。
Now you're really fashionable.
嗯，就是穿点工装裤配件衬衫吧，还是挺基础的，但够我用了。
Well okay, you know, some cargoes in a shirt, you know, still, it's very basic but you know, it does it for me.
明白。
Yeah.
不过说实话，我以前老想着，二手循环？
But yeah, I was like, I'd always, you know round two?
对，对。
Yes, yes.
我知道，没错，没错。
I know, yeah, yeah.
所以虽然我从来对时尚或者运动鞋不感兴趣，但从它们刚在弗吉尼亚起步时，我就一直在关注。
So like even though I was never into fashion or into sneakers or anything, like I'd watch them from the very beginning when they started in like Virginia.
哇。
Wow.
我一直觉得这事儿特别酷、很有创意，而且我本身就很爱创作。
And I was just always fascinated by it and I thought it was cool and creative and I liked, I've always been very creative.
我向来喜欢那些与众不同、需要深思熟虑的东西，我从来不想去模仿别人。
I've always been really into things that are different and take a lot of thought and it's like I've never wanted to mimic anything.
如果你穿的鞋人人都在穿，说实话，我觉得这没啥意思。
I've never, like if you know, if you're wearing the same shoes everyone else has, you know, I don't think that's that cool.
我反而欣赏那些穿别人没见过的鞋子的人，对吧。
It's like I like someone that wears shoes that you don't see or you Yeah.
你知道吗，他们搭配出来的造型，别人根本不可能穿得出来。
You know, they create their own outfit that you know, no one else is gonna rock.
对啊。
Yeah.
我一直对时尚挺好奇的，后来我和我老婆听说有人卖二手衣服，就开始去旧货店逛了。
So I'd always been curious about fashion and stuff, so once my wife and I were kinda hearing about, you know, people selling second hand clothes, I started going to the thrift stores.
我基本上就是买买买，同时学着怎么在网上卖，赚到的每一分钱，又全投回去买更多衣服。
And I pretty much, you know, I was buying stuff, I was learning how to sell online and just every bit, like, bit of, you know, money I was making off that, was just putting back into buying more clothes.
是啊。
Yeah.
我一直觉得，你走进全国任何一家旧货店，里面都堆得满满的全是衣服。
With the whole mindset of, like, you know, you walk into pretty much any thrift store in the country and they're just packed with clothes.
是啊。
Yeah.
太棒了。
That's awesome.
我想多聊聊，你是不是先买衣服，然后才开始倒卖的？
Like I really wanna touch more on like buying clothes first and then did you kind of flip clothes?
你这行就是这么起步的吗？
Is that how it all started?
对，我就是这么开始的。
That's how it all started, yeah.
我现在店里大概有四五百件衣服吧。
I mean this, so, you know, I have I think around 400, 500 articles of clothing in the store right now.
天啊。
Wow.
这还只是我存放在仓库里的一小部分。
And this is like, you know, this is a fraction of what I have in like storage units and stuff.
是啊。
Yeah.
因为我打心底就想快点把衣服转手卖出去，赚快钱。
Just because my whole thought process, process, process was making, you know, making the money off of flipping it as quickly as possible.
对。
Yeah.
然后赶紧把赚到的钱再投回去，买更多衣服。
And then reinvesting it by buying more clothes as quickly as possible.
有些人喜欢到处淘衣服，就想挖到一件值五百块的神级T恤，然后发Instagram炫耀，但我根本不关心这个。
So some people like to go and, you know, like to hunt for clothes and they wanna pull that banger, you know, band tee that's worth $500 and they wanna go flex it on Instagram, I don't care about that.
我不喜欢找那种特别贵的东西，因为我不想卷入那种装高冷的圈子——你知道的，这件九十年代的T恤值二十块，那件却值好几百。
I don't, I hate finding like super expensive stuff because it's like I don't wanna be in that realm of like, you know, kind of snooty, it's like, you know, okay, this one shirt from the ninety's is worth $20 this one shirt from the ninety's worth several $100.
我明白背后有情怀，也知道这些衣服稀有，但对我来说，核心就一个字：量。
I understand the nostalgia behind it and you know, they're rare and all that type of stuff, but for me it's just, my whole goal was volume.
我只想知道怎么用一块钱赚到两块，卖得越快越好，然后马上再投进去，循环起来。
My whole goal was how can I turn my dollar into $2 by just getting this sold at the most reasonable price where then I can reinvest it, you know?
我不是想一块钱变一百块，我就是一块钱变两块，就这么一直滚下去，对。
I'm not trying to turn a dollar into $100 it's like I'll turn a dollar into 2 and just keep that compounding and Yeah.
不到两年，我就在网上卖掉了三千五百件衣服。
In less than two years I sold 3,500 articles of clothing online.
哇哦。
Wow.
恭喜你啊。
Congrats on that.
谢谢。
That's Thank you.
是啊，我一向特别看重数字，喜欢做账、搞这些事儿。
Yeah, I've always been a big numbers guy, so it's like I love accounting, I love doing all that type of stuff.
天哪，我也喜欢会计，但感觉喜欢会计的人好像挺少的。
Oh man, I like accounting too, but I feel like that's an unpopular opinion to like accounting, so.
我上学时唯一拿得出手的科目就是数学。
Well the only subject I was ever good in in school was math.
真的吗？
Really?
所以啊， yeah，就是说，哇，真厉害。
So it's like, yeah, it's like Oh wow.
我高中的预科微积分差点拿满级分，哎。
Like I had like an A minus in pre cal Oh.
那时候的事儿了。
In high school and stuff.
明白了。
Okay.
对，那对我来说就跟呼吸一样自然，但别的科目就不行了。
Yeah, like it was like second nature to me, but everything else, you know.
是啊。
Yeah.
混过去的。
Coasted.
我确实是混过去的。
I coasted for sure.
关于旧物淘货，我一直觉得特别有意思的一点是……
There's a there's one really interesting thing about thrifting that I've always been fascinated about.
我觉得很多人只是表面上懂二手购物这回事。
I feel like a lot of people understand at the face value what thrifting is.
对啊。
It's Mhmm.
你就是买点旧衣服，过段时间再卖出去，很多人觉得这就像衣服回收一样。
You kind of buy used clothes and resell it at some point and more people like, it's like recycling clothes in a way.
没错。
Mhmm.
但其实很少人知道，你背后到底是怎么搞到这些衣服的。
But I feel like not a lot of people understand what goes on in the back end of what you do to actually, buy these clothes.
你到底去哪儿淘这些衣服啊？
Like, Like, where do you buy these clothes?
就去附近的救世军商店吗？
Do you just go to, like, a local goodwill?
还是说，你得怎么收集那么多衣服，然后卖给普通消费者？
Or what is, like, the process of collecting enormous amount of, like, articles of clothing like you you have and kind of reselling that to, like, the average consumer?
说实话，不透露我的独家秘诀的话，关键还是人脉和资源网络。
Well, mean, I probably, know, without like giving away my secret recipe, it's all about like connections and networking.
对。
Yeah.
大家都知道我是干嘛的，所以经常一觉醒来，电话或短信就来了，莫名其妙就有一堆衣服送上门来。
People know what I do so therefore, you know, things end up like I wake up and I get a call or a text and you know, things end up working out where all of a sudden I'm able to take on clothing.
对。
Yeah.
但我从来不是每天跑去二手店，一袋一袋地狂扫衣服。
But it's never like I just go to the thrift store every single day and I just grab, you know, I'm just grabbing bags and bags of clothes.
我偶尔才会去二手店，这儿人太多，我都不太常来这家，怕把好东西都扫光了，让别人没法淘到物美价廉的宝贝。
It's like, you know, I go to thrift stores periodically, I don't hit the one up here too often because I, since this is such a densely populated area, do want people to go there and still have the fun of searching for clothes at a really great price and stuff like that.
就算我看到能转手赚一笔的东西，对。
Even if I find something that I know I could resell Yeah.
但如果只赚个五块美金，我觉得不值当，就干脆让给别人，反正他们也能淘到好东西，多好。
If it's like, at a price point where it's like, okay, might make like a $5 flip on it for what I would want to sell it for, I'll leave it and I'll let someone else get it for, you know Wow.
比我要卖的价格便宜一点。
A little bit cheaper price than I would sell it for.
对。
Yeah.
没错，我其实特别有自己的审美，就喜欢找那种材质好的衣服。
Yeah, so I mean it's like I very much have my own, you know, aesthetic that I look for, I look for like quality materials.
是的。
Mhmm.
其实衣服到处都是，不光是旧货店才有。
But for, I mean, there's, there's clothes everywhere, not just in thrift stores.
对。
Yeah.
你想想，只要跟人说你在找衣服，我敢打赌，每个人家的奶奶都有一柜子压箱底的老衣服。
You know, so if you, you know, think about it and like, just let people know, like, you're trying to look for clothing, you know, I'm sure everyone's grandma has a closet full of clothes that's been there forever.
对。
Yeah.
或者阁楼、地下室这类地方，反正到处都有。
Or like, you know, an attic or a basement or things like that, so.
你随便问问就行。
You know, just ask around.
说不定谁家就有适合你的衣服。
Maybe someone's got clothes for you.
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
这太有意思了。
That's super interesting.
我以前上高中时穿的很多衣服，其实都是从我爸衣柜里翻出来的。
I I think a lot of my pieces that I used to wear in high school actually came from, like, my dad's closet.
真酷。
That's cool.
我觉得特别酷，你就能翻翻家里阁楼啊、地下室啊这些东西。
I think it's really cool that, you know, you you look in, like, your family's, like, attic or basement and stuff like that.
好多人都忽略了这么干，光顾着去商场或者网上买新货。
I feel like a lot of people overlook, like, doing that and kinda just buy retail or from, like, other, like, online places.
对啊。
So Mhmm.
是啊。
Yeah.
你可以跟邻居们说说，你就住在一个社区里嘛。
I mean, let your neighborhood, know, you live in a neighborhood.
跟周围人都打个招呼，问一句：你有不要的东西吗？
Let everyone in your neighborhood know, hey, do you have any stuff?
我愿意拿去捐给旧货店，或者送到别的地方，然后你再去那儿淘一淘。
I'll take it to I'll I'll go donate to the thrift store or I'll go take it to somewhere and then, you know, you rummage through it.
总能挑到几件合你心意的。
There's a couple of things you like.
不错。
Cool.
对。
Yeah.
我可没少收到别人送来的衣服袋，一堆一堆的，我自己衣服都快放不下了，但每次我都想，这堆里肯定有几件好东西。
I've had there's been plenty of times people bring me bags of clothes, like, I I have so many clothes, and you know, there's like 70, I'm like, there's gonna be some good stuff in here.
结果翻出来全是J.Crew的纽扣衬衫之类的东西。
And it's like nothing but like J.
我就想，唉，这些我真不太喜欢，但算了，拿都拿了。
Crew button ups and stuff, and I'm like, alright, you know, I don't really care for these, but Yeah.
是啊，谁家衣柜里没堆满衣服啊，说不定还多得放不下呢。
Yeah, I mean, just, you know, there's everyone's got a closet full of clothes, and if not more than that, so.
是啊，这真的太棒了。
Yeah, no, that's super cool.
我特别感兴趣的是，你真的很在意环保和可持续发展。
And one other thing that I found really interesting about your story particularly is you care a lot about, like, the environment and sustainability.
我目前正在做一个关于可持续时尚的项目。
And I feel like I'm currently working on a project that deals with, like, sustainable fashion as well.
对的。
Mhmm.
我们可以
We can
线下再好好聊聊这个，不过我觉得时尚行业很多时候和可持续理念是背道而驰的。
definitely talk more about that off camera, but, I feel like a lot of fashion also contradicts the idea of sustainability.
那你是怎么把对可持续的关注和时尚结合起来的呢？
So how would you find this, like, niche of caring about sustainability and also fashion at the same time?
其实我做事的方式有点不一样，你可能没注意，我们的网站、谷歌搜索里，根本不会标榜自己是古着店。
Well, so I think what makes me a little bit different in the aspect of how I run things is like, if I don't know if you've noticed but nowhere on our website or on Google or anything does it say that we're a vintage store.
因为我不在乎衣服是哪个年代的。
Because I don't care what era it's from.
我这儿有二战时期的轰炸机夹克，放在网上能卖好几百块，但我就想把它卖给真正懂它的人——这东西质量好，能穿很久，我就希望它能落到爱惜它的人手里。
You know, I have like World War II bomber jackets that I could sell for several $100 online for a much better price here on But this it's like, you know, I just want it, it's a quality item, know it's going to last and I want to get up to somebody.
如果有人买了这件夹克，我知道他不会下周就捐出去。
And if someone, if someone buys this jacket, I know they're not going to donate it next week.
也不会明年就捐了，因为他们明白，我现在是第二个、第三个甚至第四个拥有它的人，大家都能感受到它的价值。
Know they're not going donate it next year because they understand that I am the second or third or fourth person to now own this item and people understand the value of it.
以前呢，人们老是在二手店找Gucci和Prada，但其实这种东西到处都有，只是大家根本没把衣服当回事儿。
Whereas before people were just, you know, going, you know, people all the time find Gucci and Prada in the thrift But stores not all the you know it's out there too because people are just like literally don't even think of clothes like that.
他们就觉得衣服用过一次就废了，没用了。
They think of it as like a used good and it's no longer good after the fact.
可谁会买辆车开几年就扔了啊？人家不还是想买第二辆吗？车的价值一直都在。
It's not like, you know, we, no one gets a car and then chucks it, you know, they want get a second car, the car still keeps value.
所以我一直觉得，你拥有的任何东西，尤其是衣服，哪怕有个小洞、有点小污渍，哪怕就是去年才做的，照样有它的价值。
So I am very much in the mindset of like, you know, anything you own, especially clothing, will still keep its value even if it has a small hole, even if it has a small stain, even if it was made last year.
这里面有些衣服，我敢说就是过去五年内做的，对吧？
Like, there's some pieces in here that, you know, I'm sure were made within the past five years Mhmm.
但它们依然很酷。
But they're still cool.
它们还是有品质的，不管怎么说吧，是这么个理。
They're still quality items or whatever it is, so Yeah.
对，这也正是我尽量把价格定得亲民的原因，毕竟这些东西很难找。
Yeah, I mean, and that's that's also why I try to price everything as affordably as possible relative to how hard it is to get.
比如伊萨卡学院的东西，根本没多少，不管我怎么找，确实没多少。
Like for example, Ithaca college stuff, there is just not a lot out there, matter how I Yeah.
不管我用什么方法搜、到处找，都找不到几件。
No matter how many different ways I try to search for it and hunt it down, there's not a lot.
所以这些玩意儿我得贵点卖，不然花这么多时间精力去淘，不值当。
So it's, you know, have to price those items a little bit more to make it worth my time and effort to get those items for people.
是啊。
Yeah.
但我也不会定得太便宜。
But, you know, I try to price it to where it's not dirt cheap.
同时也不会定太高，让人觉得不值。
But I also try to price it where it's not too expensive so people understand the value of it.
你知道吧，就好比你送人一辆兰博基尼，人家可能心里嘀咕‘哎哟，这玩意儿’，然后开着到处疯跑，玩得可嗨了；但要是你花了十年时间亲手攒出一辆福特版的兰博基尼，那你肯定隔天就打蜡，停在车库里当宝贝供着，你懂的。
You know, it's like if you give, if you were to give someone, you know, a Lamborghini, they might be like, oh, you know, crap, and then they're whipping it around, they're having a great time, but if you're someone that worked ten years to build a Ford Lamborghini, you're gonna be waxing that thing every other day and it's gonna be garage kept and you're gonna be, you know Yeah.
比如停个双排啊，或者乱停车啥的。
Part, you know, double parking and stuff or whatever.
所以我就是想让大家明白这东西的价值，价格也尽量定得合理，还是让人觉得亲民。
So I just want to make sure people understand the value of it and, you know, I try to keep the prices according to that, that still make it very affordable.
你从这儿买的东西，能用好多年。
If you buy something from here, it's gonna last you a long time.
这儿的东西都不糙，你懂的。
Nothing here is flimsy or Yeah.
做工也不差。
You know, poorly made.
质量没得说。
It's quality.
对。
Yeah.
就像看你这儿所有的衣服，我确实觉得……
Just like looking through all your articles of clothing you have here, I've, yeah.
你这儿所有东西的共同点就是质量，真的。
Quality is all like the common denominator behind all you have here, so.
没错，你看那排牛仔裤，有些是九十年代的，到现在2020年代还好好在这儿呢。
Yeah, because I mean like, that's so you know, the rack of jeans, like some of those jeans are from the '90s and they're still here in, you know, the '20s, the 2020s.
所以我希望人们买了这儿的东西，能穿到2050年。
So it's like, I want people to buy something from here and to have until 2050.
是啊。
Yeah.
直到穿不下、搬家了，或者别的什么原因为止。
Until it doesn't fit them or they, you know, are moving or whatever it is.
这儿每一件东西，你都能穿好几十年，就像现在的人穿旧衣服那样；但现在的大多数品牌，根本撑不了那么久。
Like all these things here, you know, you could rock for the next several decades like people do now but if you buy from most brands nowadays, they don't They're not gonna last that long.
对。
Yeah.
所以我觉得特别有意思，我之前做了一些研究，关于人们购物的方式，尤其是买衣服这块，发现真有不少人会一口气买一大堆衣服，但其实穿不了几次。
So like, I that's really interesting because I feel like in doing some research on my end of, like, how people shop, like, especially for retail, there's, like, some number of people that actually buy, like, an immense amount of clothes, and then they maybe wear it.
大概穿个13次左右，就扔了，再也不碰了。
I think it's around 13 times before they throw it out and never wear it again.
那你对快时尚怎么看？它现在到底对世界造成了什么影响？
So what do you think about, like, fast fashion and how that's, like, changing the world nowadays?
以你的视角，你觉得搞时尚的人，或者对时尚感兴趣的人，是不是该更清醒一点，买衣服的时候多想想？
And given your perspective, is this, like, something that people in fashion or interested in fashion should kind of take on and be more conscious when purchasing like a piece of clothing?
当然了，人得有这个意识，百分百得有。
Well, mean, people being conscious, a 100%.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得像Fashion Nova那些品牌，压根就没二手价值。
I think if you, if like brands like Fashion Nova and you know all those brands, like they don't have resale value.
那些衣服挂到Mercari或者Depop上，两块钱都没人要，因为就是些垃圾货，人家就是看模特穿了，一时冲动买的。
Like those items sit on like Mercari and Depop for like $2 and no one's buying them because it's crap stuff that someone bought for, you know, they saw a model wearing it in the Yeah.
我还记不清是不是在哪看过，说那些拍广告穿的衣服，根本就不是卖给顾客的那种质量。
And I can't remember if I've read somewhere that like the clothing they wear for the shoots aren't even the same quality of the clothing that actually gets made and delivered to people.
对啊。
Yeah.
就像你去麦当劳，看到广告里那个汉堡堆得高高的，特诱人。
It's like, you know, like you go to Carl, you see a Carl's Jr.
结果你买回去一吃，简直一塌糊涂。
Ad and it's like a beautiful, perfectly stacked burger and you get it and it looks like crap.
快时尚品牌干的，大概就是这么回事。
Think that's like what happens within those types of fast fashion brands.
但话说回来，一分钱一分货嘛。
But yeah, I mean, you get what you pay for.
明白。
Mhmm.
如果你花五百块买一堆Fashion Nova的衣服，一整个季度的衣橱全搞定，那肯定有原因——为啥能这么便宜。
So if you're gonna get, you're gonna do a $500 Fashion Nova haul and get a whole new wardrobe for a season, it's like, well there's a reason why you're able to get so much for so cheap.
就是垃圾，你知道的。
It's crap, you know.
快餐为啥比健康餐便宜多了？因为没那么营养，对身体也没那么好，这道理谁都懂。
There's a reason why fast food's so much cheaper than quality food because it's not as good for you, it's not as nutrient, it's not as, you know, beneficial.
所以我觉得大家真该多留个心眼儿。我觉得我们现在可能正处在个拐点上——我不是说快时尚明年就完蛋了，但确实感觉快到临界点了。不过我也说不准，因为两边都有道理，我还没完全想明白。
So, yeah, I think people definitely be conscious and I think, I feel like we are at like, I'm not gonna say like, you know, fast fashion is gonna die next year, but I definitely think we're at like a plateau or like, you know, a tipping point in the sense of like, I don't, you know, I think it's just because maybe, there's two sides that I'm not quite sure of.
我不确定是 lockdown 期间大家才真开始关注环保，还是就我一个人那时候才突然醒悟。
I don't know if sustainability and like people being, you know, aware of the environment and stuff like that really picked up during lockdown or if it more so was just for me because that's really when I started to become aware.
对。
Mhmm.
可你想想，五年前根本没人谈气候变化这事儿。
But it seems like, I feel like, talk about climate change and different things like weren't happening even like five years ago.
那时候你一提气候变暖，人家都觉得你疯了，特奇葩，现在呢？这都成常识了，谁还敢否认？
Like if you were talking about climate change, it's like you were a crazy wacko person or whatever, you know, you got, you know, people just like judge you but now it's like common knowledge and like there's no denying it.
是的。
Yeah.
所以
So
我觉得这特别有意思，因为我也是一到封锁期就开始关注可持续时尚了。
I find that really interesting because I actually got into sustainable fashion when like the lockdown hit too.
那时候我才意识到，整个行业里根本找不到哪个品牌是百分之百做可持续或道德时尚的。
That's when I like, started to realize that, like, the industry itself, like, there wasn't one specific brand that was doing, like, sustainable or ethical fashion, like a 100%.
我就想自己搞个小品牌，做到百分百可持续和道德生产。
And I tried to start, like, my own little fashion brand that was a 100% sustainable and ethical.
明白。
Mhmm.
但我很快就发现，这得花很多钱。
But I, like, quickly realized it takes a lot of money.
而且我本身家境也不宽裕。
And I come from, like, low income too.
所以这念头就放下了，但‘有意识地消费’、买得更环保更道德这个想法，一直没丢。
So I, like, scratched the idea, but, like, the idea of, like, conscious fashion and shopping more sustainably and ethically always stuck through.
是的。
Mhmm.
我特别能理解你，尤其是 lockdown 之后开始关注可持续时尚这件事。
I I really resonate with you in like, I guess the sustainable fashion coming out from lockdown.
这真的挺棒的。
So it's really cool.
但我想补充一点，这事儿是双向的。
But one thing I wanna like cap on that is it's it's a two way street.
对吧？
Mhmm.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
公司确实生产了很多劣质产品，拼命推销，但消费者也在买啊。
In the sense of these companies are making crap products and they're just pushing them out and you know, all this type of stuff, but people are buying them.
所以我觉得，我们不能光指着公司说‘你们能不能更环保、做得更好’，更关键的是像你说的——得想想自己到底买了多少。
So I think it's very much like we can't just go and point our fingers at companies and be like, can you be more sustainable and make better products, more so kind of what you were saying, it's like be understanding of how much you are buying.
如果你要买衣服，那就选那种能经常穿的 essentials。
Like, if you're gonna buy something, it should be an essential piece you can wear all the time.
别买一件裙子，就为了参加一次活动，之后再也不穿了。
Not like, okay I'm gonna buy this one dress for this one thing and I'm never gonna wear it again.
是的。
Yeah.
买的时候多花点时间挑一件你真喜欢、百搭、质量好的，以后还能转手或者借给朋友穿——我听说有人搞衣服交换，把不要的衣服带去跟朋友互换，这主意真不错，对吧？
Buy it, spend more time searching for a dress you're really gonna like that can be very universal or a dress that is higher quality that you could resell or give to a friend to borrow all these different I things, you think that's a very, I've heard people do like, you know, clothes exchanges or trades, wherever they bring all the clothes they don't want anymore and they'll bring them with their friends exchange like, that's a great idea, you know, and Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
别舍不得为品质多花点钱。
Don't be afraid to pay out for quality.
所以，我现在其实挺困惑的，到底该怎么让消费者更有意识呢？
So like, I guess my question I'm even trying to understand nowadays is how, right?
我们该怎么引导大家更清醒地消费？
How do we get these consumers to think in a more conscious way?
对。
Mhmm.
我们是不是得搞些广告，把衣服拍得更美一点，让人真正感受到一件衣服的价值？还是说，得让他们读一大堆文章？
Do we have to, like, put out, like, ads that kind of paint clothing in a more, like, beautiful way that makes them really cherish the value of, like, a piece of clothing or, like, do they need to read tons of articles?
这个问题我真没答案，不确定你有没有，就是好奇你怎么看——咱们怎么才能改变那些买衣服的人的想法呢？
This might be like a I I I don't even have the answer to this question, and I'm not sure if you do, but just curious to see your thoughts as to how can we maybe change, like, the perspective of, like, users or purchase, like, consumers out there that buy these clothing brands.
我最近刚开始读一本书。
I actually just started reading a book.
作者名字记不清了，书名叫《影响力是你的超能力》。
I can't remember the name of the author but the book is called Influence Is Your Superpower.
对。
Mhmm.
这本书的核心就是教人怎么让人愿意听你说话，不是那种领导式的强硬态度，而是像真正的领袖那样，让人理解你、愿意听你，而且心甘情愿地按你说的去做，还不带任何操控感。
And the whole point of the book is kinda just getting people to, you know, hear you out, kinda like having, you know, like, kind of like that, not managerial type demeanor, but like, you know, being like a leader in the sense of like getting people to understand you getting people to hear you and getting people to take actionable steps towards what you are saying in a non manipulative way.
是的。
Yeah.
不过我书还没看多少，里面提到一个重点：人脑里有两部分，一个是鳄鱼脑，一个是法官脑。
But even though I'm not very far in the book, one of the main things that harps on is like people have like a gator side of their brain and they have a judge side of their brain.
鳄鱼脑呢，就是能偷懒就偷懒，能不动就不动——书里举了个例子，你扔块肉给鳄鱼，要是离得远，它根本懒得动，反正也不饿；
And the gator side is the side of, you know, minimal effort, minimal work, I don't, you know, because like if, the example they gave in the book was you throw a piece of meat to the gator and if it's little bit too far they're not gonna run to it and eat it because they don't need to eat.
但要是肉刚好在它嘴边，它立马就一口咬下去。
But if it's like, you know, within their bite radius that's when they chomp down on it.
所以鳄鱼脑就是反应式的、下意识的，根本不用动脑子。
So it's like very reactive, very subconscious, you don't have to think about it.
就是得过且过，活着就行。
Just like, just skating by, just surviving.
而法官脑就不一样了，得坐下来好好想想，比如该选哪所大学、钱该花在哪儿，这类需要深思熟虑的事儿。
Where the judge brain is more so like, okay, you know, it's a very, you have to sit down and ponder and think about what action you want to take, you know, deciding what college you want to go to, deciding what you want to put your money towards and things like that.
你要怎么让人用鳄鱼脑去做事呢？唉，我这话说得有点乱，书里的意思我还没完全抓住。
And like, the way you get people to kind of use their gator brain to make, or you know, to kind of, I'm butchering the book.
每个人都该读读这本书。
Everyone should read the book.
它会影响你的超能力，这本书到现在还挺棒的。
It influences your superpower, it's a great book so far.
对。
Yes.
我想说的是，想让人尝试新东西、听你的观点，或者打破习惯而不只是敷衍了事，关键是要让这件事变得特别简单。
But the point I'm getting to is that in order to get someone to try something new, to hear your side or whatever it is, to break their habits not just like brush it off to the side, is make it as easy as possible.
明白了。
Gotcha.
我觉得这其实不在于当激进分子，硬塞东西给人家，而是更像开个店。
And so I think what that comes down to, I don't think it's necessarily like being activist and like shoving down people's throats and stuff like that, I think it's more so like having a storefront.
比如让人来看看二手店或者复古店长啥样，让它们更接地气。
You know, getting people to come and see what a secondhand store or a vintage store might look like, know, making it more accessible.
如果你去旧货店，确实会这样。
And I think that, you know, if you go to a thrift store Mhmm.
你可能翻了半小时，结果没一件合身的，没一件合心意的，好不容易找到一件，还全是污渍或者大破洞，最后还是没买。
You might search for thirty minutes and find, you know, nothing that's in your size, nothing that you like, nothing that, you know, you found one thing but it has a big stain on it or has a big hole in it and stuff like that and you might not get it.
所以我希望让大家更容易找到那些又酷又有品质的单品。
So I wanted to make it as easily accessible for people to find, you know, cool quality pieces.
对。
Yeah.
降低入门门槛，让人更愿意来尝试。
You know, and just lower that barrier to entry to get in.
如果得跑去二手店一件件翻，那太费劲了，还得反复去，才能碰上想要的东西。
If people have to go to the thrift store to search for stuff, you know, it's a little more consuming for them and they might have to go repetitively to find that thing that they're looking for.
他们就想找件冬天穿的不错的夹克。
They want to find a nice jacket for the winter.
想找个夏天穿的短裤之类的，对吧。
They want to find, you know, some shorts for the summertime and stuff like Yeah.
所以我觉得，关键是让这些高品质的单品一眼就能看到，偶尔在聊天里提一提，也挺有用的。
So, yeah, I think just, just showing people very easily, you know, the quality pieces, you know, every now and then bringing it up maybe in like group conversations and stuff.
对。
Yeah.
不过呢，我真不是想硬塞给谁。
But, yeah, I don't think it's it's definitely not like, you know, trying to hammer it on anybody.
就是顺其自然，我觉得这么下去自然会慢慢发展起来。
It's just very much like let it happen and, you know, I think it'll it'll grow from there.
让消费者用起来更省事。
Making it easy for the consumer.
对。
Yeah.
这话说得在理。
That's a good point.
我之前还真没想过这点，那本书叫啥来着？我想自己也读一读。
Didn't really think about that but, what was the book called one more time for my own personal reading
《影响力：你自己的超能力》。
Influence is your superpower.
就在过去几年，我才开始爱上看书，挺有意思的，以前我可完全是那种人——觉得哎呀，一堆自助书，非得读这读那。
I just within the past couple years I started getting into books and it's funny because I used to be that type of person, I'd be like, okay, know, there's all these self help books and these certain books you gotta read.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
以前我特别讨厌看书，翻不了几页就看不下去了，每页都得重读好几遍。
And I would just hate them and I wouldn't be able to get past a few pages, I'd to reread every single page and stuff.
但有些书只要一引起我的兴趣，我就能一口气读完。
But there's certain books that like, know, if they spark my interest, can like devour them.
这本书绝对是这种类型。
And this is definitely one of those books.
特别轻松，特别有趣，我强烈推荐。
Super easy, super interesting, I highly recommend it.
明白了。
Gotcha.
我最近又开始重新读书了，这个我也要加到我的书单里。
I've I've started getting back into, like, my reading phase, so I'm gonna add that one to the list too.
这书真不错。
It's a great book.
不过呢，咱们之前聊了很多关于服装可持续性的话题，还有你是怎么入行的，但我现在想换个方向，聊聊你是怎么一步步把这家店开起来的。
But, yeah, I I know we've talked a lot about, like, the sustainability aspect of clothing and kind of how you got into it, but I really wanna switch gears into talking about how you really led or really started this storefront here.
这个过程到底是怎样的啊？
Like, how is that process like?
还有，‘Evergreen Ithaca’这个名字是怎么来的？
And, also, where did the name evergreen Ithaca come from?
是因为你喜欢常青树吗？还是说背后有别的考虑？
Is it because of your love for like evergreen like trees or like what was the thought process behind that?
其实呢，我得改一下店名，以前叫‘Functional’，但拼写用的是V，不是U。
Well, so I needed to change the name of my business because before it was called Functional but it was spelled with a V instead of a U.
明白了。
Okay.
那拼法挺搞笑的，哈哈。
Which was like, yeah, it was pretty funny.
那名字真有点尴尬，说实话，我本来觉得挺酷的，可别人看的时候总用怪异的眼神瞅我。
Was pretty cringe, like I don't, you know, I Some hated the people would like look at it kind of funny and like, even though I thought like when I made it like, this is slick, you know.
我当时想的是，就算东西用过了、旧了、不新了，它照样能用，照样完成它的功能。
The thought process behind that was like, you know, it's functional, even though it's used, even though it's battered, even though it's not pristine brand new, it's still functional, still does its purpose.
后来我就想，唉，得换个名字了。
But then I was like, yeah I need to change the name.
那时候我已经在这儿定居了，知道自己短期内不会搬走。
At that point you know I was here and like, I'm like I'm not going anywhere, I'm living here for you know, for the foreseeable future.
对。
Yeah.
所以我就想，得跟绿色、自然、户外、环境沾点边儿。
So I was like, you know, something to do with green, something to do with nature, something to do with outside and the environment.
然后我就想到了‘Evergreen’。
And I just, you know, thought of Evergreen.
我试过就叫‘Evergreen’，但感觉不太行。
I tried to do just Evergreen, but that didn't work.
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别人也用过‘Evergreen’这个名字吗？
Did someone else have like Evergreen?
好像州里有家公司用了这个名字，或者跟这名字有点像，我查了下，确实不行。
There's like, yeah I think there's like some company in the state that has that name or some aspect of that name that I couldn't Yeah.
后来发现‘Evergreen Ithaca’还没被注册，我就觉得，太完美了。
Was like Evergreen Ithaca and it was available and I was like, perfect.
我觉得这名字特别棒，因为它不落俗套——我做这个生意，总想打破常规，搞点不一样的、有创意的东西。
And I think it's great because it kinda, it's not like, So everything that I do with this business as well, I try to think outside the box, try to think what can be different, what can be creative.
我不想叫它‘复古店’，所以才取了‘Evergreen Ithaca’这个名字。大多数店都叫‘XX复古’，其实也没错，毕竟好找、容易让别人知道这是卖二手衣服的。
I didn't wanna call this place a vintage store, so I called it Evergreen Ithaca whereas most stores they call themselves, you know, blank vintage, which nothing's wrong with that because I think it makes it easy for people to find you and it makes it more accessible for people to get their hands on secondhand clothing.
但我就是想搞个有个性的、能自成一派的品牌。
But I just wanted to make something that was kind of like cool and it's like its own brand, like its own thing.
而且这名字也跟伊萨卡这地方特别搭。
And it also ties into Ithaca, you know.
我超爱这儿，就想通过这个店，把伊萨卡的味道带出来。
It's I I love this place, I wanna represent this place, so
是的。
Yeah.
这真的很酷。
That's that's really cool.
你有没有想过，未来把Evergreen Ithaca开到其他州去？
Like, do you see yourself growing Evergreen Ithaca into more states in the foreseeable future?
没有。
No.
不过回头说，那个我待会儿再讲。
But going back, I mean, will cover that.
说到创业初期，我每卖一件东西，都会算清楚能赚多少，然后把钱再投回去，大量进货，到处搞快闪活动。
Going back to what you were saying about starting this business, it was like, you know, me just trying to, every single piece of article that I sold, I would see how much profit I made, invest that money back into the business, acquire a huge amount of clothing, and I was doing local pop ups.
我在奥斯汀那一年开始搞快闪，差不多一个月一次，有时候两次，大热天的，外面能到四十多度。
So when I spent my year in Austin is when I started doing pop ups and I was doing them like once a month, maybe twice a month in the fricking blazing hot heat, like 105 degrees.
搭好摊子，汗都快把衣服泡透了，得赶紧换一身，真不是人干的活儿。
You'd set up your booth and you'd be dripping suede to change your whole outfit and you're It was not fun.
不过 yeah，我开始这么干之后，慢慢认识人、建立联系，也攒了不少粉丝。
But yeah, I started doing that, meeting people, building connections, building a following and stuff.
我搬过来之后就接着搞，去年夏天还参加了伊萨卡夜市，挺有意思的。
I moved here, I started doing that, did the Ithaca Night Bazaar this past summer, which is pretty fun.
那地方真不错，推荐本地的朋友都去逛逛。
It's a cool spot, I highly recommend people that are local to check it out.
好多本地摊主，支持小店，支持本地货。
Lots of local vendors, shop small, shop local.
我就这么一点点积累起了一批粉丝，后来觉得：既然有这需求，要是能租得起店，干脆开个实体店吧。
And I just kind of just built, built enough of a following to where I was like, okay, if I am able to afford a space, like I need to open a space because there's definitely a demand for it.
我注意到，好多人都在市集上反复买我的东西。
I'm seeing these people that are buying from me multiple times at just pop ups alone.
是啊。
Yeah.
后来我就听说，Mama Goose 在葡萄园那边有个铺子想转租，我就主动联系了他们，谈成了这笔租约。
So, this Mama Goose, I heard at the Grapevine, they had this space and they were trying to sublease it and I was able to, you know, reach out to them and work out a deal.
是的
Yeah.
地方是小了点，但咱们硬是给盘活了。
You know, it's a tight space, but we're making it work.
而且真的很感谢他们愿意让我在这儿待着。
And yeah, I'm grateful for them for letting me be here.
对啊
Yeah.
我就靠一点一点攒钱，说实话，我早就不是以前那个花钱大手大脚的人了，最近几年变得特别抠门。
And it's just something that, you know, I just save my pennies, save Like, my I'm not some, I've become very, very frugal within the past like couple years.
没错
Yeah.
我尽量少花钱。
I try to spend as little money as possible.
只要一想买东西，我肯定先搁置一周再说。
If I ever have an urge to buy something, always sit on it for like a week at least.
是的。
Yeah.
为了确认自己是不是真需要、真想要，结果有一半时间，我根本就忘了自己原先想买啥。
To make sure that, you know, do I really need it, do I really want it, and half the time I forget what I was thinking about, you know?
是的。
Yeah.
这话说得在理。
That's a good point.
所以我就是拼命省钱，能省则省，等啊等，结果机会真就来了。
So, yeah, I mean, just really trying to save my pennies, save my nickels, you know, wait for the time to come and then it happened.
对。
Yeah.
不对。
No.
那你又是怎么发现这事儿真有市场需求的？
So how how did you figure out that there's like a real demand?
你在这些快闪活动中，是不是经常看到很多本地人不断过来找你？
Did you just see a lot of local people like continuously come up to you during like these pop ups?
还有，第二个问题是，你是怎么发现Mama Goose的？
And also the second part of that question is when you found, I guess, Mama Goose.
我知道他们也是家二手店，对吧？
I know, are, they're also a thrift store, is that?
他们确实是家二手店，卖的都是婴儿和幼儿用品。
So they're a second hand store Yeah.
主打婴儿和小孩子用的东西。
Catered around infants and like young children stuff.
是啊。
Yeah.
啥都有，小孩用的全都有。
And they have like everything kid.
你要的那类东西，他们全都有。
Everything Like all the type of stuff you would need.
他们还卖可重复使用的尿布。
Do like reusable diapers.
他们好像还提供母乳捐赠点之类的服务。
They do like, I think they're like a breast milk like drop off station and stuff.
哇，真的吗。
Oh wow.
是啊，我对Mama Goose和所有员工都很敬佩，我觉得这个商业模式特别棒。
Yeah, they, I have lots of respect for the Mama Goose and all the employees, you know, I think that's a great business model.
对，那这里整个空间也都是二手物品区，是吧？
Yeah, so this whole space here is also like, I guess, a second hand like space, right?
还是说整个这块地都是这样？
Or is that what this whole entire property is?
不是整个地块。
No not the whole property.
就我们两家。
It's just us two
好的，好的。
Okay, okay.
做生意嘛，是的。
Businesses, yeah.
但说实话，这挺合理的，你知道的。
But I mean it made sense like, you know.
对，确实如此。
Yeah, does, yeah.
她说这儿以前还有另一家店，本来我还犹豫要不要让他们进来，但后来你一问，我就想，嗯，有道理，为什么不呢？
Because she said there was another business here, she like, Yeah, didn't know if I really wanted them there but then you inquired and I was like, Oh, you know, makes sense, why not?
对。
Yeah.
那你到底是怎么知道这儿真有需求，值得开家店的？
So how did you really know that there's, like, a real demand to open up a store?
就是出于好奇吧，毕竟可能有些观众也在考虑开自己的实体店，做点什么生意。
Just, like, curiosity because maybe some of the viewers out there are thinking about opening their own storefront for whatever business that they're trying to start.
对。
Mhmm.
那到底什么时候才是该大胆租店面、正式开实体店的时机呢？
When is that right time to, I guess, jump the gun on buying a storefront for the actual business?
说到这个，我经常想的是，创业初期一定要尽量降低门槛，先找到能赚钱的模式。
Well, when when you say that, one thing that I really think about a lot is having the lowest barrier to entry when starting your business that will make you money.
比如我一开始是在线上卖衣服，有了稳定的收入后，才敢去开实体店，同时线上店还继续开着。
So for example, I started selling clothes online and I had that revenue source to where I could go and open up a store, and I could still have my online store at the same time.
就算实体店勉强保本，甚至小亏一点，我还有线上渠道在赚钱，而且线上那块几乎没成本——平台收佣金，也是成交后才扣钱。
So worst case scenario, this is like, just barely breaking even, maybe losing a little of money, I'm still making money through my other means, which doesn't cost me anything to run that store because I just, you know, they take their fees, whatever, after the fact of the sale.
对。
Mhmm.
这样我一边发展实体店，一边还能稳稳地赚线上那份钱。
But it's like, you know, I can continue to make money that way while growing this.
现在呢，实体店已经成了我的主业，线上销售我基本都不做了。
And now I'm to the point where this is just really the main thing that I focus on and I don't really do any online sales.
是的。
Yeah.
所以不管你是做什么的，比如手工制品、艺术家，或者刚开始一个小生意，你能不能找点不用花钱、或者最少花钱就能赚钱的方法？
So whatever it might be, if you're trying to do, you know, you make handmade something, you're an artist, you are, you know, you're starting a small business, what can you do that will make you money with the, without you having to spend any money really if you can do or the least amount of money possible.
我觉得最重要的一点，我老强调这一点，也是我最成功的地方——我总爱跳出常规去想问题。
And I think the biggest thing is like, one thing that I harp on so much and I think it's been one of my biggest successors is the fact that I always try to think outside the box.
有本书特别棒，名字我一时想不起来了，大概是《别人扎堆的时候你反着来》之类的，但光看这个书名，你就基本懂它想说什么了。
When everyone, another great book, I forgot what it's literally called, but it's like zig when they zag or something like But even just the title of that book is pretty much all you need to know about the book.
对。
Yeah.
比如说，现在人人都说要去TikTok发视频、做Reels，就这么干。
It's like when, so for example, everyone says go on TikTok, make TikToks, make Reels, do Reels.
这确实能帮你积累一些粉丝。
And that might help people gain a general, you know, following.
但问题是，现在人人都这么干，你得跟所有人抢流量，因为大家都被灌输要这么做。
But it's like, okay, you have to compete with everyone else now trying to do that same thing because that's what everyone's being told to do.
我不是说别在TikTok或Instagram上发视频，如果你觉得这对你的生意有帮助，当然可以发。
So it's like not to say don't post on TikTok or IG reels or something, do that if that's what you think will help you grow your business and gain attraction.
但你能做点不一样的吗？
But like, what can you do that's different?
比如，能不能找家本地小店，跟他们商量摆个小摊、放张桌子？
Like, can you pop up at a local store that's gonna allow you just to have a little corner, a little table.
好。
Yeah.
卖点你的画作、陶器、蜡烛之类的玩意儿。
You know, and sell your artwork or sell, you know, you make pottery or you make, you know, candles, something like that.
对。
Yeah.
要是你跟店主或者物业关系不错，他们愿意让你免费摆摊，那你就等于零成本开始赚钱了。
Especially if you're cool with the owners, you're cool with the property manager or whatever and they allow you to it for free, a free way if you do then start making some money.
对。
Yeah.
所以啊，关键是永远要换个角度想问题。
So it's like always just think differently.
你要是做点不一样的，大家才会注意到，毕竟与众不同嘛。
If you do something different, people are gonna notice because it's different.
但如果你只是又一个发TikTok的，别人刷着刷着，可能瞄你一眼，也可能根本没看见，而且你还得陷在那种不停产出内容的恶性循环里。
But if you're just another TikTok, people are just scrolling they might catch your attention, they might not, but then you're also a part of that, just like, constant grind of having to pump out content.
每天都不一样，这点我特别喜欢。
Like, every day is a little bit different, which I love.
是啊。
Yeah.
我倒希望能有点更固定的节奏，但说实话，我做内容做了这么多年，现在能按自己的步调来，真的挺好的，再也不用逼自己非得天天发了。
I wish I had little bit more of a routine, but like, yeah, I've been in the content game and I've done it for so long, it's like I'm glad now I can kinda go at my own pace and not feel, not, I hate it, I hate the fact, or I hated the fact that I used to feel pressure to have to post.
以前总觉得自己今天必须发一条，或者得发两条，上礼拜那个视频爆了，今天就得再搞个类似的，压力太大了。
It's like I gotta get a post up today or I should do two today or, you know, last week I did this and it was so successful, gotta think of something that's similar to that.
说到底，还是得按自己的节奏来。
It's like, you know, do things at your own, at your own pace.
我不是每天都发帖，也不拍短视频，试过几次，拍了几个，觉得算了。
I don't post every day, I don't make reels, I've tried reels and I, I made a couple and I was like, whatever.
对。
Yeah.
但你知道吗？所有火起来的东西，最初都是没人看的，就是有人试着做了点不一样的东西。
But just like, what, what, like everything that gains popularity started from nothing of just someone trying something different.
对。
Yeah.
然后呢，突然有别人也这么干，接着又有人跟着做，就这么传开了。
And that's really, and then all of a sudden someone else does it and someone else does it, so.
这个观点真有意思，而且你当初做CrossFit频道的时候，肯定也积累了不少社交媒体的经验。
Yeah, that's a really interesting take on it and a lot of like your expertise in social media when you started your CrossFit channel too, probably, taught you a lot as well.
我特别想知道，因为我现在也在努力做自己的播客。
And I'm really curious to understand since I'm also trying to grow my podcast too.
我做的很多东西，其实都是在模仿TikTok、短视频和短内容。
And a lot of what I do is trying to do like the TikToks, the reels, the shorts.
那你到底是怎么精简内容的，不至于非得每天都发帖压力这么大？
So how do you really refine content so that you're not like, I guess, pressured to post every single day?
你当初从零开始做CrossFit频道，积累那么多粉丝，后来又管理Evergreen Ithaca的社交媒体，这中间你学到哪些关键经验？
And what lessons did you learn from, I guess, starting that CrossFit channel and gaining immense amount of following to, I guess, handling the social media presence of Evergreen Ithaca?
这俩事儿确实不一样。
I mean, it's definitely different.
但我学到的是一些通用的原则。
I think it's taught me, like, general principles.
我那个叫Concealerate Fitness的YouTube频道，真正让我火起来的是——当时CrossFit还很新。
When it came to YouTube for Concealerate Fitness, which was the name of my YouTube channel, it was what really helped me grow and gain traction was one, CrossFit was new.
我刚开始那会儿，做CrossFit相关内容的人特别少，所以只要有点不一样，就很容易涨粉。
So it's really like, you know, there was not a lot of people doing CrossFit related content at the time when I started, so therefore it was easy to kind of grow because it was different.
对。
Mhmm.
我后来发现，不管是YouTube还是别的平台，只要不是那种三十秒就炸一下、像TikTok那样硬抢注意力的短内容，而是能让人静下心来听、慢慢消化的长内容，最关键的就是做那种经得起时间考验的内容——这名字还真不是白起的。
But one thing I've really noticed, when it comes to long, long, longer format content, whether that be on YouTube or anywhere else, as long as it's not like thirty seconds like, you know, boom, bam, like trying to get your attention like TikTok does, if it's something where people actually like listen to and you know digest, is making evergreen content, no pun intended.
就是那种不会过时的内容，经得起时间考验的。
In the sense of like stuff that just doesn't, doesn't you know, it stands the test of time.
比如我以前做过一个视频，讲五个提高高翻动作的灵活性训练，这种内容只要有人练CrossFit，就总会去搜，因为高翻确实特别难掌握。
Like one of my videos that I, like you know, I used to make videos on like five mobility drills for like an overhead squat for example and it's like something that people that get into CrossFit are always gonna look into cause overhead squat is a very challenging movement to do.
对。
Yeah.
得有协调性，得有柔韧性，还得有耐心，慢慢练才能搞定。
Requires coordination, requires mobility, requires patience to master and stuff.
所以这种内容永远都会有人看，因为总有人在找这类教程。
So it's like something that will always gain views because people are always looking up for that thing.
后来我还拍了一个视频，那时候别人都没拍过，结果成了我最火的视频之一，一年内就拿了五十万播放，就是那个。
And then I made another video which was like the only one of its time that became one of my most successful videos like within a year and gained like half a million views was Yeah.
我学到了五件事，或者说是……啥来着？
Five things I learned or five, what was it?
就是‘我要是早点知道这五件事，当初练CrossFit就不会走那么多弯路了’。
It was like five things I wish I knew when I started CrossFit.
因为人们就是喜欢清单，喜欢数字，你知道的。
And it's like, one, people love lists, people love numbers, you know
对。
Yeah.
什么‘前五名’之类的，大家都爱看。
Top five, whatever it is.
想开始练CrossFit的人，肯定想知道该注意些什么。
People wanna know if they're gonna start CrossFit, what should they be thinking about.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这类内容就是典型的长青内容，永远都有人看。
So like that's another piece of evergreen style content that's always gonna be relevant.
我现在发内容，就只发Instagram，而且全是这种长青内容。
And so when it comes to me posting, because the only social media I have now is evergreen, Ithaca, Instagram.
对。
Yeah.
所以如果我真的要搞起来，我不是说现在，但等这事儿慢慢上了轨道，也许我会雇一两个人，帮我多做点内容，因为我真的很喜欢做内容。
So if I were to make like, I'm not, I've contemplated like once this kind of gets going, maybe I have an employee or two to like venture into more content because I really do enjoy making content.
对。
Mhmm.
但就像你在我Instagram上看到的，每张照片都不一样。
But it's like, as I hope you've seen with my Instagram, it's like, it's never the same type of photo.
不是老拍同一件衣服挂在衣架上，摆得整整齐齐，然后下一条还是这个，再下一条还是同样的漂亮照片。
It's not just an item sitting on a hanger, just the one item perfectly framed, and then the next post the same thing, next post the It's same beautiful.
你的动态墙真的很有美感，我特别喜欢看你发的东西。
You have a really aesthetic, like, feed, and I really like watching it.
这正是我想说的，每一条我都在努力超越上一条。
And and that's the thing, like, every single post I try to outdo myself.
是的。
Yeah.
有些帖子我自己更喜欢，有些就一般。
And some posts I like more than others.
有些视频我回头一看，就觉得这儿那儿要是改一改就好了，但我的初衷就是想不一样，吸引大家注意。
Some I look back at I'm like, I would have done this differently or that differently but it's trying to be different, catch people's attention.
对。
Yeah.
你提到每条帖子都想超越自己，这点真的特别有意思。
That's that's that's really interesting that you mentioned every post you try to outdo yourself.
我也不太确定。
I'm not sure.
你有没有看过MrBeast的那个播客？
Have you watched the podcast with mister beast by any chance?
他说发社交媒体内容时，每一条都比上一条多加百分之十的投入和质量。
Which He he I think he talked about like posting on social media and every post that he tries to make, he tries to add, like, 10% more of what the, like, prior post had in terms of, like, effort and quality.
是啊。
Mhmm.
他认为，这大概才是打造优质内容账号的真正秘诀。
And he thinks, like, that's, like, the real, I guess, recipe of, like, making a really good, I guess, content page.
所以我觉得你根本不知道，但你其实早就无意识地在用这‘10%法则’了，每条内容都在超越上一条，对吧？
So I think you you didn't even I I I don't know if you knew that, but I think you already subconsciously started doing, like, the 10 rule and kind of outdoing yourself with like every single post you had, right?
你想想那些音乐人啊，搞创作的，比如做音乐的。
Well like, you know, think about like, you know, artists, like music, you know, like people that make music.
要是老重复同样的东西，根本没法进步。
It's like if they kinda the same thing over and over, they're not really gonna grow.
他们可能有一群死忠粉，但拿泰勒·奥康马来说，我记得听过他一个访谈，他说自己每张专辑都跟上一张完全不一样。
They might have the same hardcore base they have but it's like, for example, Tyler the Creator, I remember listening to a podcast with him and he was like every every single one of his, you know, in his discography or whatever it's called is like so different from the last.
我觉得正因如此，他才能一直保持热度，不断成长，事业也越做越好。
And I think that's what helps him stay relevant, that's what helped him grow, what helped him be successful in business and stuff like that.
但如果你老是重复同样的东西，声音单调，我第一个想到的就是威兹·哈利法。
Whereas if you're someone that's just pumping out the same thing and you sound monotone, like for example, what came to my mind instantly was Wiz Khalifa.
大家一提到他，就只知道他老唱大麻、抽烟，嗯，挺酷的。
You know, he's just so, like all you're asked about is weed and smoking weed and it's like, know, cool.
但他别的就不聊了，内容就那么点，久而久之，自然就被大家淡忘了，因为一直没新意。
But it's like, there's nothing else that he talks about so it's kind of just, you know, kind of fades out into the background because it's the same thing.
所以啊，说实话，这也让我不用每天都发帖，感觉轻松多了。
So yeah, I mean, you know, that also allows me to not have to post every day I feel.
对。
Yeah.
因为我一发帖，大家就知道肯定有新东西，希望能戳中他们的兴趣点，没错。
Because when I do post people know it's gonna be something different, it's gonna be something, you know, hopefully it It's catches be their idea, yeah.
说白了，我发帖就想让人真停下来瞧一眼，别又刷过去就算了。
Mean that's the whole thought process is like if I'm gonna post I want people to actually look and not just be another one, you know, and swipe right past it.
是的。
Yeah.
所以……
So.
你这种创意灵感真有意思，不光来自时尚圈，还延伸到音乐人、各种艺术形式，我以前压根没想过，做内容也得这么想，尤其是我做播客的时候。
That's really interesting how you kinda have this like, or have these creative inspirations not just within your realm of like fashion and you have it within like artists and any different forms of, like, creativity, I think that's something I never really thought about when thinking about, like, creating content, especially, like, for my podcast too.
我以前老想着，那些特别成功的播客主都是谁？
I kinda look into the realm of, oh, who are the very successful casts like out there?
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
我觉得你提了一个特别有意思的角度。
I think you're you bring up a really interesting perspective.
那对你来说，哪些人或创意领域是你灵感的来源呢？
So like, who are those inspirations to you and like the creative industry that you kind of draw these attributes from?
其实我每天的生活基本就是找二手衣服、植物、音乐和播客。
Well I mean like, so pretty much all my day revolves around is, you know, finding used clothes, plants and music, and podcasts.
比如，我特别喜欢的一位艺术家是弗兰克·奥申。
But like, so for example, one of my favorite artists is Frank Ocean.
因为他每首歌都截然不同，大家总说坎耶是创造神级音乐的上帝，他的音乐确实很棒。
Just because the way he is able to, you know, each song is so different from the last, like, know, people think like Kanye West is a god who makes the greatest music, his music is great too.
对。
Yeah.
但像弗兰克·奥申、泰勒·奥克利这些人，还有我想想其他我特别喜欢的，他们真的敢突破边界，从不重复自己。
Know, but it's like, people that like Frank Ocean, people like Tyler the Creator, people like, I'm trying to think about other people that I really like, you know, people that really just push the envelope and it's like not the same.
我特别敬佩那些敢穿出街、一身造型绝无仅有的人。
Like that's, I have the utmost respect for people that walk outside and like they have an outfit on that you will never see again.
不一定非得是大牌或者花里胡哨，真正打动我的，是那些骨子里有创意、坚持做自己的人，不管在哪儿都一样。
You know, it's like, and it doesn't need to be like designer or like super fancy and gaudy, but it's like people that truly are creative to their, and they go to their own beat their own drum is what catches my attention in anything in life.
比如有人设计自家花园的方式。
Like, you know, it could be the way someone designed their garden.
有人的花园看起来很普通，有人的却美得惊人，但他们花的时间、心思、规划，都是一样的用心。
Like someone can have a really basic garden, someone can have a beautiful garden, they spend a lot of time, you know, effort and thought process and planning and stuff like that.
所以我特别尊重那些有创意、有个性、能抓住我眼球的与众不同。
So it's, I just have a respect for, you know, creativity, uniqueness, things that catch my attention, things that are different.
是的
Yeah.
我觉得我真该跟你学学，不只是从播客圈里找灵感，而是从生活中方方面面那些能激发你创意的人身上汲取灵感。
I I think I gotta take some lessons from you and stealing inspiration from not just people from like the podcasting space but just people everywhere that kinda inspire you with, like, creativity.
对
Mhmm.
比如你平时圈子以外的人。
Like, outside of your normal industry.
没错。
Yes.
在生活中。
In life.
是的
Yeah.
在生活中。
In life.
这太棒了。
That's that's awesome.
我有个挺有趣的问题想问你：你做过最寒酸、最凑合的事是什么？
I guess I one fun question I have for you is what is, like, the scrappiest thing that you run?
因为你一个人就撑起了《永恒伊萨卡》这个项目。
Because you run Evergreen Ithaca by yourself.
是这样吗？
Is that correct?
所以，作为《永恒伊萨卡》的创始人，你干过最拼、最接地气的事是啥？
So what's the most scrappiest thing that you've done as a business owner running Evergreen Ithaca?
就是那种特别务实、不搞虚的。
Like, just the most like kinda just down to business type
对，对，对，没错。
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
有一件事吧，我认识一位八十多岁的老太太，她有个仓库，大概五十英尺宽，一百五英尺长，里面堆满了成箱成箱的衣服。
Well I guess one thing is, is like there is this one individual that I knew or I know that's in her 80s and she has a barn and this barn's probably like 50 feet wide, 100, 150 feet long and she has boxes and boxes full of clothes.
天啊。
Oh wow.
她啊，有个旧衣店，只要她去，店家就让她随便拿，因为新货不断进来，他们就想清掉旧货。
She had, you know, I've, I'll air it out, she had knew this thrift store that would just let her just take everything because they were getting stuff coming in so they wanted to get rid of the old stuff.
是啊。
Yeah.
他们就说：你来拉走吧，全归你了。
And say hey, you you haul it and it's all yours.
她这么干了好多年，把东西全堆进谷仓，现在里面到处都是动物粪便。
And she just for years and years would throw stuff in the barn and now it's covered in animal feces, know.
你进去得至少戴N95口罩，最好戴防毒面具，不然吸进去的灰尘能把你呛死。
You to wear like an N95 minimum if not a gas mask when you're in there because otherwise you're gonna be hailing so much junk and stuff.
手套、厚外套，记得把皮肤全遮住，别露出来。
But like, you know, gloves, sweatshirt, you know, make sure none of your skin's exposed.
不过我确实从那儿弄了不少东西，但后来实在觉得不值当了，太费劲。
But, yeah, and then I was able to get a ton of stuff from there but it got to the point where it was like, okay, you know, it's not even worth the effort at this point.
我得挖啊、爬啊，绕过一堆东西
How much I have to dig and climb over stuff and
天哪。
Oh god.
是啊，我事后可以给你看张照片，你就知道了。
Yeah, was just like literally, I could show you a photo afterwards, just, you know.
哦真的啊，我超想看看照片。
Oh yeah, I'd love to see a photo
全是箱子，三十英尺高，全是衣服，到处乱堆着。
Yeah, it was boxes like 30 feet tall of like clothes, kinda you know, falling over the place and stuff.
那地方真是脏到爆，待在里面估计都短命一两年，不过确实让我淘到不少好东西。可笑的是，她还照样收天价。
It was definitely the grossest, know, might have taken a year or two off my life to be in that space, yeah, it allowed me to get a lot of great stuff, know, but the funny thing is that she would still charge like an arm and a leg.
可不是那种‘随便拿，东西都只要二十五美分’的模式。
It wasn't like, you know, take what you want, everything's a quarter or something like that.
牛仔裤要八块钱，我得洗七遍才能把味儿去干净，更别说还得往衣服堆里扎进去找，跟潜水似的。
Like, oh you know, well jeans are $8 and I'm like, I gotta wash these things like seven times just to get the smell out, let alone me having to go and, you know, dolphin dive into a pile of clothes to find it and stuff.
是啊。
Yeah.
你看，她压根就没帮上忙，真的一点都没帮，但这也可能是最疯狂的事之一了。
See, actually she definitely not, definitely definitely didn't hook it up but, yeah, that's probably one of the, one of the craziest things.
对，确实太搞笑了。
Yeah, no, that's super funny.
但在我们进入快问快答环节、结束节目之前，还有最后一件事。
But one last thing before we get into the rapid round of, the podcast before we close it out.
你有没有什么建议或者心得，可以给那些正打算开小店、或者追梦的人？
But do you have any advice or tips that you have for anyone out there that's trying to open up their storefront or anyone that's trying to chase their dreams?
就像我之前说的，尽量用最少的钱做你能做的事。
So kinda like I was saying, figure out what you can do with the least amount of money spent.
如果你刚开始做内容，根本不需要灯、不需要相机、不需要完美的背景，也不用花钱拍什么‘开箱’之类的视频。
You don't, if you're trying to start making content, you don't need a light, you don't need a camera, you don't need a perfect backdrop, you don't need to spend money on doing a, you know, a haul or something like that.
找最省钱的办法，多问问别人，上Facebook群组里发个帖：‘我在找美术用品’‘想找二手布料’‘想找 whatever 你想要的东西’，不管你想做什么，都这么去问。
It's like find the cheapest way you can do things, ask around, go on Facebook groups and say, hey I'm looking for art supplies, I'm looking for used fabric, I'm looking for you know whatever you want, whatever your endeavors are.
但如果是要买材料那种制造类的，那就得省吃俭用，一点一点攒钱。
But if it's something that's more like manufactured like you have to buy things, save your pennies, save your nickels.
说到底，这完全看你现在的生活状况，看你到底有多想要这件事。
I mean, it's really all, you know, depending on wherever you're, how you are in your, in your life situation, you know, you can only, it depends on how bad you want it.
是的。
Yeah.
比如说你想创业，但又老觉得‘哎呀我没办法啊，因为这个那个’，那行吧，这事就别想了。
If it's like something like, you know, I wanna start a business, but then you're like, oh, woe is me, I can't because X, Y, or Z, it's like, okay, well then it's not gonna happen.
如果你真的下定决心了，那就每天往前迈一小步。
You know, if you're really, if you're really about it, take one step towards it every day.
一步看着是小，可一千步你走完一步，就只剩九百九十九了，再走一步，就九百九十八。
One step is, seems small if there's a thousand steps you gotta take, but then now you only got nine ninety nine, you know, nine ninety eight.
要是你觉得这都太多，那估计你对创业也没多大兴趣。
And if that sounds like a lot to you, then I guess you don't really care about starting a business.
说白了，这压根儿就不是你真想干的事儿。
I guess it's not really a passion of yours, so.
是的。
Yeah.
太美了，真美。
That's beautiful, that's beautiful.
哇。
Wow.
这真是个完美的收尾方式。
What a way to kinda close it out.
但在结束之前，如果你还不熟悉，我来简单介绍一下。
But before we close it out, wrap it round if you aren't familiar.
有点像二选一的问题。
It's kinda like a this or that type question.
好。
Okay.
我们给你准备了十个问题。
So we got 10 questions for you.
十个。
10.
我故意没写进脚本里，想给你个惊喜，不过咱们先来点简单的。
So I I purposely didn't put it into the script because it's more of a surprise, but we'll start off kinda easy at first.
第一个问题：耐克还是阿迪达斯？
So first question is Nike or Adidas?
如果非选不可，我选阿迪达斯，毕竟它总是那个被低估的。
Neither if I have to, otherwise Adidas because always always an underdog.
明白了。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得耐克太大众、太潮流了，所以真要选，我还是选阿迪达斯。
Nike's more I feel like Nike's bigger and more trendy and stuff, so if I had to, it'd be Adidas.
有道理。
Fair.
说得通。
Fair.
有道理。
Fair.
好的。
Okay.
下一个问题是格子还是条纹？
Next one is plaid or stripes?
条纹。
Stripes.
条纹。
Stripes.
你平时穿很多条纹的衣服吗？
Do you you have a lot of stripe like clothing or?
我就有这么一件。
I have like this.
我有几件条纹衣服，比如几件针织毛衣。
I have a couple stripe things like couple stripe like knitted sweaters.
我有一件雨衣，上面是彩虹色的条纹，我真的超爱它，刚买不久。
I have this like rain coat that's like rainbow colored stripes but like it really I I love I just got it recently.
这还挺酷的。
It's That's pretty dope.
太酷了。
That's dope.
好。
Okay.
下一个，纯色T恤还是图案T恤？
Next one is plain or graphic tees?
图案T恤。
Graphic tees.
图案T恤。
Graphic tees.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Okay.
你穿宽松版还是正常版？
Oversized fits or regular fits?
我大部分衣服都……
Well, most of
我穿的基本上都是宽松款，因为没几件能合身。
the stuff I wear is oversized because nothing ever fits me.
所以选宽松版。
So oversized fits.
行。
Okay.
不错。
Nice.
穿运动鞋还是凉鞋？
Sneakers or sandals?
运动鞋。
Sneakers.
运动鞋？
Sneakers?
这鞋对你来说好像挺难穿的。
These seem hard for you.
你是知道的，我其实想说，谢谢你。
You know, it's like, I'm trying to think like, thanks.
你懂的吧？
You know?
这得看季节。
It depends on the season.
是的。
Yeah.
但你知道的。
But, you know.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Cool.
是选中性色还是鲜艳一点的色调？
Neutral tones or more colorful tones?
中性色吧。
Neutral tones.
好的。
Okay.
是网上买还是去商场？
Online shopping or going to the mall?
或者说商场里头
Or like A mall is
这算回事吗？
even a thing?
maybe 就是家店吧。
Maybe like a store.
我们就说去
We'll say going to
实体店。
a storefront.
我觉得去实体店。
I say going to a storefront.
支持本地小店。
Shop local.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Sweet.
黄金首饰还是白银首饰？
Gold jewelry or silver jewelry?
白银首饰。
Silver jewelry.
好。
Okay.
好。
Okay.
要简约款还是夸张款？
Simple or statement pieces?
夸张款。
Statement pieces.
好。
Okay.
最后一个，是淘二手还是买新品？
And last one, thrifting or retail?
我的意思是，
I mean,
零售？
retail?
不了。
No.
用二手的吧。
Use, secondhand.
太棒了。
Awesome.
这真是个完美的结尾，不过再次感谢你，哈德森，今天来参加我们的播客。
Well, that's a great way to close out the podcast, but thank you so much again, Hudson, for joining us today on the podcast.
如果本期播客里有任何内容让你有共鸣，欢迎在所有社交平台上标记一下《Detour Podcast》。
If anything within this podcast or episode resonated with you in any way, feel free to tag Detour Podcast across all these social media platforms.
如果你想关注哈德森的旅程，哈德森，你的Evergreen Ithaca账号是什么？
And if you'd like to follow Hudson on his journey, Hudson, what's your at for Evergreen Ithaca?
Evergreen Ithaca。
Evergreen Ithaca.
太棒了。
Awesome.
再次感谢大家一直以来的支持和喜爱。
Well, thank you again to everyone for your continuous love and support.
我是你们的主持人范加里，咱们下期再见。
I'm your host, Gary Fan, and we'll see you guys next time.
再见。
Peace.
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