击剑世界冠军萨姆·伊姆雷克：非传统风格与心理韧性 | 直接淘汰赛 第14集

但你的击剑风格究竟源自哪里？

But just where does where does your fencing style come from?

当然。

Sure.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一个经常被问到的问题，我认为这是多种因素的结合。

That's a very commonly asked question, and I'd say that it's a combination of several factors.

其中很大一部分当然是来自训练、击剑实践等等。

A lot of it, of course, being definitely lessons and just fencing and everything.

很多来自教练的指导，但也有很大一部分来自我自己，尤其是在自由对练时，我有大量时间去击剑、思考自己的击剑方式，并尝试新东西。

A lot of it with coaches, but also just with myself, especially during open fencing when I would have a lot of time to fence, think about my fencing, try out new things.

此外，观看击剑比赛也有很大影响，尤其是早期观看高水平比赛时，那对我产生了巨大影响。

Also a combination of just watching fencing as well, especially the high level, like when in the earlier days, like when I was watching the top level fencing, that also had a huge impact.

所以我说，是这些各种因素共同作用的结果。

So I'd say, yeah, those a lot of those various factors combined.

而且，是的，很多东西都是我自己在思考，和教练、其他击剑手等等交流的结果。

And, yeah, just a lot of a lot of that stuff, lot of me thinking about it just amongst me, amongst coaches, other fencers, etcetera.

而且，是的，所有这些最终都融合在了一起。

And, yeah, it just kind of all came together, essentially.

所以你得到了安德烈的同意吗？

So you got Andre's sign off on all this?

他没有试图纠正你吗？

He he wasn't trying to correct you?

他没有试图让你改正什么吗？

He wasn't trying to straighten you out or anything?

他全程都支持并认可了这一切吗？

He he he signed off in support of this the whole way?

我觉得，嗯，我几乎想不起来他曾经多次纠正过我。

I'd say, like yeah, I mean, I can't really think of him like trying to correct me a bunch.

尤其是在上课的时候。

Especially during the lesson.

是的，他不会真的那样做。

Yeah, he wouldn't he wouldn't really do it.

是的，他真的不会说太多。

Yeah, he wouldn't really, wouldn't really say too much.

我觉得他只是在旁边看着事情会怎么发展。

I think he was just, you know, sitting by to see how it went.

嗯。

Yeah.

安德烈，在我的经验中，你也见过其他剑手像他这样，比如他真的让安娜·范·布罗明自己成长起来。

Andre, in my experience, and you've seen other fencers like this, like he he really let people like Anna Van Brooming come into her own as well.

达里乌斯。

Darius.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

就是这种事。

Stuff like that.

我觉得安德烈是个抽象派艺术家。

Like, I think I think Andre is an abstract artist.

我觉得他更关心你最后击打的方式。

I think he's more concerned with how you're hitting at the end.

所以他就会说，好吧。

So he's like, okay.

你击打的角度和时机都对，而且你布置得恰到好处，能引出对手的反应，至于看起来怎么样，老实说，我不在乎。

You're hitting at the right angle, the right timing, and you're setting it up the the way where you're getting the reaction from your opponent and you're doing this, like, frankly, I don't care what it looks like.

当你是个捣蛋鬼的时候，这招就更酷了。

And it's it's way cooler when you're a troll.

我觉得这正是安德烈的思维方式。

And that's that's like Andre's mentality, I think.

没错，这种说法非常好

Yeah, it's a very good way of putting

就是。

it.

他觉得，如果你想好好防守，那很好。

He's like, if you want to try and have perfect on guard, great.

我会配合你。

Like, I'll work with it.

如果你只想轻轻挪动，然后想干嘛就干嘛，只要你能打中我，我就不跟你争。

And if you want to just like tiptoe around and then, you know, do whatever, like if you're hitting, I'm not gonna argue with you.

我觉得这 definitely 得到了安德烈的认同。

And I think that's definite he definitely got Andre's sign off.

他就说，哦，对。

He's just like, oh, yeah.

现在我们有了一个秘密武器。

Now we have a secret weapon.

走吧。

Let's go.

我选择你。

I choose you.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

所以，关于这个问题的第二部分是：从你开始变优秀时起，就一直有黑粉和怀疑者，这感觉如何？现在你证明了他们全都错了，又是什么感觉？

So the second part of the question to that is, how did it feel to have haters and the doubters basically from the start of when you got good, and how does it feel to have proved them all wrong?

而且至今仍是。

And continue to.

他们现在依然有黑粉和怀疑者，正收听这个播客，只是为了看看你这个‘大人物’会怎样。

They they still have haters and doubters right now tuning into this podcast just because they wanna hear they wanna just see the patron.

我希望不是这样。

I hope not.

不是的。

No.

我开玩笑的。

I'm just kidding.

但我的意思是，事实是，欧洲人和其他国家的人会笑，他们会感到困惑，不给予尊重，然后就输了。

But I mean, you know, a fact, like the Europeans, the people from other countries, they laugh, they're confused, they don't they don't give a respect, and then they lose.

然后他们被迫给予尊重。

And then they're forced to respect it.

所以，那种感觉是怎样的？

So, like, what's that like?

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

这其实也是一个非常好的问题。

It's it's all it's also a very good question.

比如，我会说，确实是这样。

Like, I would say that's yeah.

我的意思是，我觉得这挺有意思的，我想。

I mean, it's kinda interesting to think about, I guess.

这并不是我会经常挂在心上的事情。

It's not something like I would that that would be on my mind all too much.

但没错，我的意思是，像这种更明显非传统的风格，多年来你也能在许多其他击剑运动员身上看到这种非传统风格。

But, yeah, I mean, definitely, like, with a style, like, more definitely more unorthodox, And you can see this with many other fencers as well over the years who are unorthodox.

你总会遇到一些人，他们就是无法理解，或者固执地认为事情就该是某种特定的样子。

You're always going to have like people who are they just not going to really understand or just have a mentality of like, it should be this certain way.

如果有什么东西超出了这个框架，他们就完全无法接受。

And if something is outside of that box, then they just really don't get it.

所以我觉得，这主要就是源于这种误解。

So I feel like that is where it stems from mostly.

就是人们真的不太理解。

It's just like people not really understanding.

但没错，我的意思是，能够用自己的风格突破界限，确实感觉很棒。

But yeah, I mean, it definitely feels good to just be able to break through with my own style.

而且，没错，这就是全部了。

And, yeah, I mean, that's really it.

我要说一下，我之前已经对很多人承认过，但现在我要公开说出来。

I I will say, and I I've admitted this to many people, but I'll go out and publicly say it now.

我就是那个黑粉之一。

I was one of the haters.

当萨姆赢得青年世锦赛时，我还在大学里黑他。

When Sam won cadet worlds, I was in college hating.

我觉得你当时和我争论过。

I think you argued with me.

我确实和你争论过。

I definitely argued.

只要有人愿意听，我就会和他们争论。

I'd argue with anybody who was willing to hear it.

当你赢得青年世锦赛时，我就是你的早期黑粉之一，那时候我正处于一种奇怪的技术崇拜阶段，我只崇拜那种非常优美、标准的技术。

I I was one of your early haters when you won cadet worlds, and I was in a weird sort of technique bubble at the time where I just I idolized technique over anything else, like, very pretty technique.

真正改变我的是，我不知道你是否还记得，你和贾斯汀曾经和安德鲁·费舍尔、Cyrus of Chaos 做过一个视频，讨论那场半决赛。

And what what really changed my like, changed me is I don't know if you remember me, you, and Justin did a video with Andrew Fischel, Cyrus of Chaos, talking about that semifinal bout.

还是那是决赛？

Or was that the final?

抱歉。

Sorry.

半决赛。

Semifinal.

半决赛的比赛。

Semifinal bout.

对。

Yeah.

还有你在那场比赛中做的那些动作。

And just the stuff you were doing in that bout.

我和贾斯汀觉得这会是个有趣的事。

And, you know, me and Justin thought it was gonna be this funny thing.

你知道的？

You know?

这个孩子是怎么想到三重鸭脚触的？

How did this kid come up with the triple duck foot touch?

而且，我们本来以为你对这个根本答不上来。

And, like, we thought you were gonna just not have an answer to that.

但你对这些机会的观察方式，以及你如何设置这些触点，让我觉得，嗯，看起来并不一样。

But the way you responded to, you know, how you were seeing these sort of, like, opportunities and how you were setting these touches up, I went, you know, it doesn't look the same.

但他对这项运动的理解真的很聪明，而且非常精准。

But the way he's seen the sport is, like, really intelligent and, like, really, really, you know, like, spot on.

我觉得这真的很棒。

I think it's really good.

那就是我停止讨厌的时刻。

And so that was the moment where I stopped hating.

从那以后，很快你就彻底赢得了我，几乎是立刻的，因为我觉得，嗯，虽然看起来不一样，但基本功都在。

And then from there, very shortly thereafter, you won me over, like, almost immediately because I was just like, you know, it it looks different, but the fundamentals are there.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

这项技能远远超越了我们任何人曾经见过的任何东西。

The skill is just beyond anything that any of us have ever encountered.

所以我现在是萨姆的粉丝俱乐部成员了。

So I am a I am in the Sam fan club now.

走吧。

Let's go.

但对任何讨厌萨姆的人，别犹豫了，接受现实吧。

But to to any Sam haters out there, like, just take the pill, guys.

你会看到真相的。

Like, you'll see the truth.

一切都会好起来的。

It'll be okay.

他是个很棒的人。

And he's a great guy.

是的。

Yeah.

不仅如此。

Not only that.

我认为你提到了一件非常重要的事情。

I think you touched on one thing that's really important.

所以，不仅基本功到位，而且你的动作设置看起来确实和你平时做的不一样。

So not only are the fundamentals there, like, yeah, the setup looks different from what you do.

是的。

Yeah.

他弯着腰，直视着你的脸。

He hunches over and looks at you in the face.

但归根结底，如果你截取任何一个最终动作的瞬间，唯一看起来特别‘非传统’的，就是这个从手底下投篮的动作。

But, like, at the end of the day, if you take a snapshot of any of the final actions, the only one that's, like, super, quote, unquote, unorthodox is this, like, shoot to the under the hand.

其他人可都不会这么做。

That's not something that anyone else does.

但如果你截取动作发生时的瞬间，那动作的流畅度简直美极了。

But if you clip the flesh as it's happening, it's beautiful flesh.

如果你截击对手的反击动作，刀身会完美地弯曲，高手位，所有要素都到位。

If you clip the counterattack over the top, the blade's bending perfectly, high hand, everything's there.

你能在完美的线路上完成四次格挡。

You get parried fours in the perfect line.

动作非常柔和。

It's real soft.

反击迅速。

Repost is fast.

其他所有动作也是如此。

Same thing with everything else.

比如，基本功全都具备，而且在技能水平上实际上处于顶尖的前百分之几。

Like, fundamentals are all there, and they're actually in the top nth percentile as far as skill goes.

所以我认为，人们只是被他们不理解的东西所困扰。

So it's I think people just get so put off by things they don't understand.

而这就是关键所在。

And, you know, that's really it.

萨姆简直就是被误解的人的典范。

Sam is just the epitome of a misunderstood guy.

我认为这个播客是揭示你其实也是兄弟一员的好地方。

And I I think that this podcast is a great place to shed light on on just the fact that you're one of the boys.

我们都很爱你，我说，吃药吧。

And and we love you know, I say take the pill.

我站在史蒂文这边。

I'm on team Steven there.

我很早就吃了药，还试图强行喂给史蒂文。

I I took the pill real early and was trying to I was trying to force feed it to Steven.

结果发现

And it turns out

每当阿里试图强迫我吃任何东西的时候。

that sometimes Anytime Ari tries to force feed me anything.

他都会吐出来，然后一拳打在我脸上。

Spits it right out and then punches me in the face.

基本上，结果表明你只能让别人自己去摸索出答案。

Basically, it turns out that you just have to let people figure stuff out on their own.

安德烈对萨姆就是这样做的。

And that's kind of what Andre did with Sam.

他说：听着，这孩子，虽然我觉得他的击剑方式不是我那样的，但他却击败了所有人，得分频频。

And he was like, Listen, this kid, he's like, That's not how I would fence, but he's beating everyone else and he's scoring touches.

所以，谁在乎呢？

So like, who cares?

坦白说，我认为，当你开始尊重而不是神化它时——这里不是关于神化，而是当你越尊重萨姆的击剑方式，你就越能从中了解自己。

And frankly, I think that in turn, the more that you start to respect it and not idolize it, it's not about idolization here, but the more you respect Sam's fencing, the more you can learn about yourself.

我认为，自从萨姆崭露头角以来，击剑这项运动无意中促使许多其他美国人国际成绩显著提升，而我们之前曾经历过一段低谷。

I think that fencing Sam inadvertently, as we've seen since Sam's come up, we've also seen a lot of other Americans start doing significantly better internationally, which we had had a big lull.

在我心中，这种相关性毫无疑问非常重要。

And there is no question in my mind that this correlation is very significant.

我认为，通过击剑萨姆、让萨姆在高水平竞技中参赛，以及与他交锋的经历，极大地提升了美国击剑队的整体信心和技术水平。

I think that fencing Sam and having Sam compete at a high level and having the experience of fencing you, I think that has led to a lot higher confidence and skill on The US fencing side.

你知道吗，我认为这正是我们组织进步的推动力，只要做你自己就好，兄弟。

Like, you know, I think that it was the impetus for our improvement as an org and just keep being yourself, bro.

除了做你自己，我实在没什么别的可说了。

Like there's there's nothing else I could say other than just keeping yourself.

我觉得你回答得非常好，你说你根本不在乎那些喷子之类的。

And I think that you answered that super well with saying that you don't really think about the haters, all that stuff.

你不该在意，你只管继续做你正在做的事，因为这很好。

You shouldn't, you should just keep doing what you're doing because it's good.

当你自我实现、成长，成为更好的自己，并越来越自信地做自己时，一切都会不断良性循环。

And as you self actualize and grow and become a better version of yourself as a person and just own it more and more, everything's just gonna keep spiraling into itself.

就是做你自己，老兄。

Like just do you man.

太棒了。

It's awesome.

能参与你的旅程真好，你知道吗，我们大概从你赢得青年世锦赛的时候开始更认真地聊天了。

It's great to be a part of your journey, you know, we started talking more seriously right around the time you won Cadet Worlds.

从那以后，我觉得我和你建立了相当亲密的关系。

And since then, I'd say I built a pretty close relationship with you.

正如史蒂文所说，看着你成长真的很棒，因为现在你已经是个年轻人了，不再是小孩子了。看到你经历生活中的挑战，对我们所有人来说有时是痛苦和艰难的，但每次你都能变得更强大、更好，就像击剑比赛一样。

And like Steven said, watching you grow has been awesome because at this point, you're a young man, you're not a little boy anymore and to see you go through life and get challenged and whatnot has been, you know, painful at times and challenging for all of us, but you're coming out on the other end stronger and better each time, just like a fencing bout.

观看和理解这一切真的很酷。

It's it's cool to watch and understand.

所以我觉得这引出了我们的下一个问题。

So I think that goes into our next question.

是的。

Yeah.

回想一下你四年前，也就是2021年的时候。

Thinking back to you, maybe we'll do four years ago, 2021.

那时你对击剑、对生活有什么梦想？

What were your dreams with fencing, with life?

你知道吗？那时候你的愿景是什么样子的？

You know, what was your vision sort of like then?

它又是如何演变的呢？

And how has it evolved?

现在是什么样子？

What's it like now?

未来五年，你希望得到什么？

What do you want in the next maybe five years?

很有趣。

Interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

我刚刚在回想四年前的自己，这真值得深思。

That's really something to think about what I was just kind of envisioning myself around like four or so years ago.

我想那正是我开始加快节奏、认真对待击剑，并让击剑深深融入我思维的时期。

I would say definitely it was like sort of around the time when I was starting to pick up the pace and fencing and like start to get take it a lot more seriously and have that in my mindset a lot.

击剑也逐渐成为我生活中更重要的部分。

And it'd be a bigger part of my life just in general.

是啊，我真的不知道长远来看我会在什么地方。

Yeah, I don't know exactly where I would have envisioned myself in the long run, really.

我知道，几年后我肯定会继续练击剑。

I do know that a few years down the road from now, definitely see myself continuing fencing.

然后，是的，等我大学毕业之后，能够稳定下来，继续练击剑，继续旅行，做我喜欢的事。

And then, yeah, like once I am out of college, just I mean, being able to be stable and, yeah, just able to continue fencing, able to continue traveling and doing what I love.

这正是我真正想做的，就是继续做我喜欢的事情。

And that's really what I just wanna do, just keep doing the things I enjoy.

对你来说，这意味着有什么远大的目标或期望吗，还是只是能继续做下去就行？

And for you, does that mean, like, any lofty goals or expectations, or is it just being able to do it?

是什么驱使你走到这一步的？

What what sort of drives you there?

我想说，我觉得……

I'd say, I guess,

其实还是有一些具体的目标的。

there are like maybe some specific goals really.

我想，就击剑而言，当然，能参加奥运会、赢得奥运奖牌，尤其是金牌，会非常酷，还有其他类似的事情。

I guess like in terms of fencing, you know, like obviously like being able to like Olympics, like Olympic medal, Olympic gold medal would be like really cool, of course, like other things like that.

不过总的来说，正如我所说，我就是想做自己最喜欢的事，拥有良好的人际关系，其他各方面也都不错，无论身处何地，都能感到满足。

I would say generally speaking though, you know, I just definitely want to, as I'm saying, like do the things I like doing best, have good relationships, good everything else, just be satisfied with where I'm at, wherever that may be.

我觉得，事情正在朝着好的方向发展，而且谁知道还会发生什么意想不到的事呢。

And I think, you know, things are going in a good way and, you know, we'll see many unexpected things or whatever can happen.

但没错，我的意思是，大部分时候就是顺其自然，看看会怎样。

But, yeah, I mean, it's just, I guess, for the most part, just kind of going with it and see how it is.

我已经有比较清晰的想法了。

Like, I have a pretty good idea.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得从击剑的角度来看，总的来说，因为你谈到了自己的生活，这些都很棒。

I think from the fencing side, in general, because, you know, you're talking about your life and all this stuff is good.

我认为人们非常好奇想了解和看到的是你的心态。

And I think something that people are really curious to to hear and see with you is is more about your mindset.

对吧？

Right?

你的职业生涯中经历过一些非常惊人的逆转。

You know, you've had some pretty epic comebacks in your career.

当情况不顺时，事情就会变得糟糕。

And I think that, you know, when things are going poorly, things go poorly.

但当情况顺利时，即使你在比赛中落后，你也能坚持战斗，与世界上最好的击剑选手抗衡，并最终逆转取胜，这真是令人惊叹。

But when when things are going well and you're down in a match and you're able to bring it back and you're able to just stay in the fight with the best fencers in the world, and you've you've come back and beat them, and it's been amazing to watch.

如果你能稍微谈谈你的心态，当你状态不错时，即使落后，你心里在想些什么？

If you could just shed a little light on on your mentality, your mindset, you know, when things are going well, what is going through your mind even if you're down?

在那些你最终赢了，但曾一度落后比如10比5的比赛里——我马上想到的是洛佩兹·波蒂耶，但你也曾在对科赫的比赛中落后，或者输给了小野健一，之后再次对阵时又击败了他。

On those days where let's say you end up meddling, but you were down ten five or something like that on the only bout that came to my mind right now is Lopez Portier, but you were down against Koch as well and and stuff like that, or you lost to Koki Cano and then came back and beat him the next time you fenced him.

像这样的比赛，当时你心里到底在想些什么？

You know, those types of matches, you know, what what's going through your head in those moments?

就连巴尔托内，你两次赢他时，整场比赛你都落后，直到最后一刻才反超。

Even Bartonet, both times you beat him, you're you were down the whole bout until the very end.

这显然说明，你会把那些日子称为发挥出色的比赛日。

And it's like, clearly you would describe those days as good fencing days.

当你一路落后时，你的脑海中在想什么？很多人在5比10时就已经放弃了。

What's going through your mind as you're getting in many, many people give up at ten point five.

他们会觉得：‘我被揍得惨不忍睹了。’

They're like, Yeah, I'm getting my ass beat.

这场比赛结束了。

This is over.

是的，我觉得这其实是一种很有趣的平衡：我的大脑既要多思考，又要少思考。

Yeah, I'd say it's a very interesting combination, I guess, of having my mind think more, but also think less.

我始终专注于比赛和赛事，但内心却充满极大的热情，拼命想要逆转局势。

And just kind of a sense where I just feel much more like, I'm always obviously directed on the bout in the tournament, but I just feel so much more like I'm just going through huge amount of passion, really trying to bring it back.

说到底，这正是我此刻最真实的感觉。

Like, that's that's just how I'm feeling more than anything.

是的。

Yes.

当然，和所有人一样，我也会想着比赛和一切。

Of course, like like everyone else, I'm thinking about the bout and everything.

但同时，是的，我的意思是，在这些特定情况下，就是有一种强烈的取胜动力。

But also, yeah, I mean, it's just really, just a strong, like, drive to win in these certain scenarios.

我觉得这正是真正推动我前进的东西。

I feel like that's just what really, propels me forward.

而且显而易见，你知道，比赛没结束前就永远不算结束。

And obviously, like, you know, the bout's not over until it's over.

当然，当节奏开始加快时，如果我落后了五分之类的，再拿下一两分，这就更证明了我还能翻盘。

And, of course, when the pace starts picking up, if I'm getting a, you know, if I'm down like five or whatever, like get one or two more touches here, like, that's just more there's just more proof that I can bring this back.

没有任何理由去灰心丧气，因为，正如我所说，比赛没完成前就永远没结束，这才是真正推动我前进的原因。

And there's no there's no reason to, try and get discouraged for any reason because, yeah, as I said, like, it's not over until it's done, and that's what really keeps it forward.

正是这种知道我能在比赛任何时刻逆转并取胜的能力，才真正驱动着我。

Just that having that ability to know that I can bring it back and win anytime during the bout, like, that's what's really driving me.

是的。

Yeah.

你提到了‘激情’这个词。

And you mentioned the word passion.

你正处在一种激情的状态中。

You're going through a moment of passion.

我认为当你表现优异、一切顺利时，这种激情非常明显。

And I think that's really visible when you're doing well and and things are going well.

一旦比赛节奏加快，当你最终赢得胜利时，你其实是个很沉稳的人，但你却是个非常有表现力的人。

Once it starts to pick up and then you finally get that win, you actually you're a very mellow guy, but you're quite a showman.

你热爱比赛，表现得非常出色。

You love the You a great jobs.

你会庆祝，充满能量，观众也喜欢看你比赛。

You celebrate, you bring the energy and crowds love watching you.

想想14比0的时候，你脑子里在想什么？

Think 14 all, what's going through your head?

是同样的事情吗？

Is it the same thing?

你是如何为这些比赛做准备的？

Is it, How do you prepare for those matches?

比赛后你是如何处理的？

How do you process them afterwards?

还是仅仅是一种自我感觉？

Or is it just a sense of self?

到底发生了什么？

What's going on?

我想是的。

I'd say, yeah.

我的意思是，在14比14的情况下也差不多。

I mean, it's also pretty similar in like a fourteen-fourteen scenario.

我只是去那里，并相信自己的能力。

It's just me going there and being able to know that I am able to trust my skill.

我又能够信任自己了，尤其是在比赛进行到很后期，或者对阵其他实力强劲的选手时，这种感觉特别好。

I'm able to trust myself again, I especially if it's a like far along in the tournament or or whatever, you know, against someone else is really good.

我只是已经走到了这么远的地方。

It's just I've I've already, like, gotten so far there.

这其实就是一种我真正信任自己技能的方式。

It's just a matter of me really trusting my skill, in kind of a way.

某种程度上，事情确实掌握在我自己手里，但也有些部分不在我的掌控中，但归根结底还是靠我自己。

Like, it's definitely in my hands, like, some ways out of my hands, but it's just me.

我只是非常清楚地感受到，内心深处知道自己有能力赢得这场比赛，我一定会全力以赴，绝不轻易认输。

It's just me, like, really knowing, having that feeling, like, down inside that I am I have the capacity to take this bout, and I'm just gonna make sure to not go down without me putting in my 110%.

比赛结束后，我的感受则因情况而异。

And, I'd say I definitely after the bout, it really depends.

有些比赛，我几乎记不太清了。

Some bouts, like, I don't remember them nearly as much.

但有些比赛，我却记得很清楚。

Like, other bouts, I will.

我觉得这有点看情况。

I feel it kinda just depends.

但没错，自从我多次身处这种境地——比如极其接近的胜利或失败之后，我已经非常习惯了。

But, yeah, I mean, I've gotten very used to that since I've been in that situation many times, like very close wins, very close losses.

就是啊。

It's just yeah.

我觉得，能身处这种境地本身就已经是一段非常棒的体验了，它真的会考验你很多方面。

It's just a I think it's a just a really cool experience to be in that situation in the first place, and that's it really tests a lot of things about you.

嗯。

Yeah.

最后，我们完全忘了。

Lastly, we totally forgot.

等你们听到这段的时候，已经是十一月了。

So by the time you guys are listening to this, it's November.

快到十一月了。

It's almost the November knack.

但当我们录制这段内容时，就在不久前，一周前、今天，你赢得了十月的NAC冠军。

But by the time when we're recording this, you know, very recently, a week ago, today, you won the October NAC.

我们忘了祝贺你。

We forgot to congratulate you.

那是我们列出的简历中的一项NAC冠军。

That was one of the NACs on the resume that we listed.

你知道，这是本赛季的第一个全国性赛事，比赛中有很多令人兴奋的击剑对决。

You know, you you won it was the first national tournament of the season and there was a lot of really exciting fencing.

话虽如此，对你来说，你并没有完全经受考验。

That being said, for you, you weren't fully, fully tested.

在八强赛中，你以10比7落后于队友，后来又以7比2领先。

In top eight, you were down 10 or seven to two against a teammate.

但到了比赛最后，比分并不接近。

But then at the end of the match, it wasn't very close.

但在决赛中，你对阵了我们另一位美国队队友亨利·劳森，你和他之间在剑道上有着悠久的交手历史。

But in the finals, you fenced our other Team USA teammate, Henry Lawson, who you and him have a long history on the strip.

他是一位非常出色的击剑手。

He's another great fencer.

我觉得他在那天激发出你最好的状态。

I felt that he really brought the best out of you on that day.

那一定就是那种典型的时刻，对吧？

And that must have been like exactly one of those moments, right?

在14比14的时候，你知道自己已经拼尽了全力。

Where at fourteen fourteen, you know you're giving it 110%.

赢得那场比赛感觉怎么样？

How did it feel to win that?

嗯，当然感觉非常好。

Well, mean, felt really great, of course.

因为，是的，那场比赛特别特别有意义，你知道的？

Because, yeah, I mean, it felt really great because that bout was very specifically, you know?

是的。

Yeah.

那是当天最接近的一场比赛，我被逼到了极限，同时也把他逼到了极限。

It was the closest bout the whole day, and it was just I was being completely pushed to my limits, was pushing him to his limits.

是的，正如你所说，我和亨利以前比过很多次。

Yeah, you know, me and Henry, as you said, we fenced each other many times before.

最近，我们的比赛总是非常接近，势均力敌。

Like lately, our bouts have been like very close or very neck and neck.

所以，就像我刚才说的，因为我们非常了解彼此，关键就在于，嗯，相信自己的实力，就是这样。

So yeah, mean, it's just as I was saying, you know, since we know each other very well, it's just a matter of, yeah, just being able to really that know my skill is there and just yeah.

我的意思是，当我赢的时候，当然感觉非常非常好，非常有成就感，为这个赛季开了个完美的头。

I mean, when I when I won, it was, of course, very, very great, very great feeling, very rewarding, amazing way to start the season.

是的。

And yeah.

太棒了。

Awesome.

真的很有意思。

It was really fun.

很高兴看到你重回巅峰。

It was good to see you back on top.

你有一段时间没出现在全国决赛的剑道上了，就像在你过渡到大学期间，全国赛事似乎一直避着你，这引出了下一个问题。

You hadn't been on a national final strip in a little while, like the national circuit had been evading you a little bit as you were going through your college transition, which leads us to the next question.

但看到你再次回到自己的状态，真的太棒了。

But it was it was really awesome to see you in your element again.

这很酷。

It was cool.

真希望我们中有一个人能有机会和你比一场。

I wish one of us got a chance to fence you.

我们都搞砸了，但你替我们俩报了仇。

We both messed that up, but you avenged both of our desks.

没错。

That's right.

那天我们被赵磊击败了，但他又被萨姆和里克击败了。

We were owned that day by Leon Chao, but he was owned by Sam and Rick.

所以这很棒。

So it was great.

是的。

Yeah.

史蒂文，介意回答下一个问题吗？

Steven, do mind going to the next question?

嗯，我觉得现在是个好时机哦。

Well, I think now would be a great time Oh.

做个实验。

To do an experiment.

我们热爱科学。

We love science.

我们不。

We don't

这是个科学节目。

This is a science show.

这是一档科学节目。

This is a science show.

所以今天我们没带任何吃的。

So we don't have anything to eat with us today.

不过，我们有这些Edge

However, we do have these Edge

哦，对。

Oh, yes.

是的。

Yeah.

Edge。

Edge.

我们可以把它们放在这里。

We can put them right here.

我们有Edge运动鞋鞋底防滑清洁布，这是根据你的应用描述来的。

We got Edge Sneakers Sole Grip Wipes by description of your app.

嗯。

Yeah.

别担心。

No worries.

史蒂文正在为这个科学实验准备一些重要的东西。

Steven's getting some important stuff for this science experiment.

萨姆很慷慨地借出了一些设备来测试一下。

Sam has been gracious enough to volunteer some of his equipment to test something out.

如果成功了，这会无意中变成一则广告。

And this will inadvertently lead to an advertisement if it works.

但什么是Edge？

But what is Edge?

Edge是一种增强抓地力并清洁鞋底的产品，它有两种不同的形式。

Edge is a product that enhances grip and cleans soles, and it comes in two different forms.

你有喷雾型，也有这种鞋底清洁湿巾。

You have a spray and you also have these sole grip wipes.

而最近，他们还推出了高级抓地系统，这是喷雾和垫片的组合，我们也可以马上拿出来展示。

And as of very recently, they also have the advanced grip system, which is a combination of the spray and a pad that we can bring out right here as well.

所以这个垫片与喷雾配合使用，能帮助你的鞋子获得更好的抓地力。

So this this pad, it combines with the the spray to help your shoes gain more traction.

但这些湿巾，我们今天并不是来打鞋类产品广告的。

But these wipes in particular, we're not we're not here to do a shoe ad right now.

我们实际上是在做一个科学实验。

We're actually doing a science experiment.

做这个科学实验是因为这个产品对橡胶和其他聚合物有效。

A science experiment because So this this product works on rubber and other polymers.

我不是搞科学的。

I am not a science bitch.

我想，之前用的就是这个词

I think I think that's the word that was used

用来指聚合物。

for polymer.

萨姆，戴上你的手套。

Sam, put on your glove for this.

这很重要。

This important.

我们要做的是一个实验。

What we're gonna do, we're gonna do an experiment.

实际上，先处理一下你的手套。

Pre your gloves, actually.

先处理一下你的手套。

Pre your gloves.

等等。

Wait.

等等。

Wait.

我们这里漏掉了好多东西。

We we're missing so much stuff here.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

我忽略了萨姆是

I missed the fact that Sam is

这是我们第三个Triple P集。

This is our third this is our third Triple P episode.

普尔，普尔，普尔。

Preer, Preer, Preer.

普尔，普尔。

Preer, Preer.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

你是我们播客上第一位佩剑队友。

You're our first Preer, Epee teammate on the podcast.

我们之前有玛雅，有格兰特，还有纽约的花剑代表，但现在我们有了我们的佩剑队友。

We had Maya and we had Grant, we had the Sabre representatives in New York, but now we have one of our Epee teammates.

我们都戴上了这些漂亮的护手手套。

We all got these nice pre or gloves on.

戴上这些手套。

Get these gloves.

看看多崭新、多干净。

Look at how fresh, how clean.

我们现在没有使用手枪式握把的原因是

The reason we don't have pistol grips right now is because

我们需要一种带有聚合物的。

We need something with the polymer.

是的。

Yeah.

我们需要带有聚合物和法式握把的东西。

We need something with the polymer and the French grips.

很多人使用高尔夫球杆握把之类的东西。

Many people use golf grips and stuff like that.

所以我们今天要测试这种鞋底喷雾和鞋底防滑湿巾，看看它们是否能在产品上使用时，让法国握把变得更防滑。

So we are testing today whether or not this sneaker spray, this sole grip wipes, whether or not they are able to help the French grip get grippier when apply it to the product.

当我们把它用在握把上时。

When we apply it to the grip.

这个已经相当不错了，这组已经不错了。

So this is already fairly This is group.

是的，我们正试图理解。

Yeah, we're trying to understand.

它已经很防滑了。

It's pretty grippy.

还不错。

It's not bad.

但现在，萨姆和史蒂文，对于正在收听的各位，我将口头向你们演示一下过程。

But now Sam and Steven, for those of you listening, I'm just going to walk you through it verbally.

他们将使用这些湿巾。

They are going to apply these wipes.

每个人都会擦拭握把，尽量覆盖整个握把表面。

Each one will wipe the grip to get the entire they're gonna try to get the surface area of the grip covered

不要展开擦拭布。

Don't the unfold the wipe.

溶液。

Solution.

上面说不要展开擦拭布？

It says don't unfold the wipe?

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以不要展开擦拭布。

So do not unfold the wipe.

他们现在正在打开并开始擦拭。

They are currently opening up and now wiping.

展开它。

Unfold it.

没关系。

Doesn't matter.

没关系。

Doesn't matter.

好的。

Alright.

让它去吧。

Let it go.

我要脱下手套。

I'm take the glove off.

对。

Yeah.

不要戴着手套做。

Don't do it with your glove.

据说这会让你的皮革没那么有抓地力。

It's supposedly gonna make your leather a little bit not as grippy.

可能会让它变得滑溜。

Might might make it slippery.

那么，我们应该用多大的力来做这个？

So, like, how hard should we go on this?

尽量覆盖付费墙。

Just get try to cover paywall.

嗯。

Yeah.

试着，对，尽量覆盖整个区域，然后你就没问题了。

Try to, yeah, try to cover the And whole then from there, you're good.

然后我们把它放到一边。

And then let's put it to the side.

然后，嗯。

Then yeah.

所以，我觉得你没问题。

So, I think you're solid.

嗯。

Yeah.

然后就吹一吹。

Then just blow on it.

让它干吧，我想。

Let it dry, I guess.

就加点空气什么的。

Just like add some air or something.

哦，等等。

Oh, wait.

哦。

Oh.

然后直接放上去

And just put it

放在桌子上吧，我想。

on the table, I guess.

所以现在我们让它稍微晾干一下，然后戴上手套，来测试一下。

So they're they're now we're letting it dry a little and then put the gloves back on and and let's test this out.

我觉得不用。

I think no.

因为我觉得它应该会有点渗进去，也许吧。

Because I think it should like kinda rub in there, maybe.

是不是更防滑了？

Is it grippier?

我的意思是，它是不是？嗯，我们得把它揉进去。

I mean Is it is it Well, we got to rub it in.

是不是更油了？

Is it more oily?

我们得把它揉进去。

We got to rub it in.

我要再多揉一揉。

I'm going rub it in more.

好的。

Okay.

把它抹到护具后面。

Putting it behind the guard.

嗯。

Yeah.

这个嘛，你想看就得付钱。

This is You got to pay if you want to see

另一面。

the other side.

一些相当危险的视频画面。

Some pretty precarious video footage.

也许还得和摄像头有眼神交流之类的。

Maybe eye contact with the cameras and everything too.

太喜欢了。

Love it.

好吧，萨姆，你的摄像头在这里。

Well, Sam, your camera is here.

嗯。

Yeah.

没错。

That's right.

好的。

Alright.

感觉怎么样？

So how does it feel?

有抓地力吗？

Is it grippy?

还是滑溜溜的？

Or is it slippy?

是不是很滑？

Is it slippy?

它挺有抓地力的。

It's pretty grippy.

真的吗？

Really?

你认为这真的能在比赛中帮到你吗？

Do you think that this would help you in competition genuinely?

还是感觉很奇怪？

Or is it weird?

等等，我明白了。

Oh, wait a second.

我知道了。

I know.

太有抓地力了？

Too grippy?

我喜欢史蒂文。

I Steven like.

我觉得这里有区别。

I think there's a difference.

不。

No.

肯定有区别。

There's definitely a difference.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

那就像，它

That is like, it

还不错。

was Alright.

还不错。

Pretty okay.

之前挺好的。

Was pretty before.

我们正在看到

We're seeing

在这儿。

Here.

试试这个。

Try that.

为了听众，不是观众。

For the listeners, not the viewers.

我之前没感受到你的。

I didn't feel yours before.

哦。

Oh.

但它的抓地力确实很强。

But it is definitely grippy.

我能看看你的吗？

Can I see yours?

我摸过萨姆的。

I felt Sam's.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这很有趣，因为我觉得你得给我们讲讲。

So it's interesting because I think the Talk us through it.

手套贴得更紧了，但正因为如此或由此导致，我的手指在手套里滑来滑去。

The glove is sticking better, but my finger is now sliding around in the glove because of that or as a result of that.

嗯。

Yeah.

因为我想它们没有橄榄球手套那么紧。

Because I guess they're not as tight as football gloves.

我们之所以想试试这个产品，是因为人们已经用它来处理高尔夫球杆握把、足球手套以及其他类似的东西，比如赛艇手套。

So the reason we wanted to try this out is because people have been using this product on golf grips and on football gloves and other things like that, rowing gloves as well.

对于击剑来说，我不确定，萨姆，你觉得怎么样？

For fencing, I don't know, Sam, what do you think?

你有

Did you

感觉有点奇怪。

It feels a little weird.

我的意思是，是的，确实不一样。

I mean, yeah, it's it is different.

确实不一样。

It is different.

当然。

Sure.

我还不太确定该怎么看待它。

I don't know exactly what to think of it yet.

也许值得多做一点科学验证。

Maybe worth a little more science.

当然。

Definitely.

再多做些实验。

More experiments.

但我们不会宣传说这能让你更好地握紧法式握把。

But so we're we're not gonna advertise that this is gonna make you grip your French grip better.

我们只会说，试试看。

What we will say, is give it a shot.

试试看。

Give it a shot.

当然。

Sure.

但你购买这款产品应该是为了你的鞋子。

But but what you should be getting this product for is for your shoes.

由于其他人鞋子带来的灰尘和污垢，以及建筑本身的使用积累，各地的击剑俱乐部和击剑道都异常滑溜。

Fencing clubs and fencing strips all over are incredibly slippery just due to the amount of dust and dirt from other people's shoes and the and the building and you know, a lot of use that builds up.

如果你曾去过击剑俱乐部或比赛，即使你的鞋子看起来很干净，你已经用袜子或地毯擦过鞋底，但还是在道上打滑，那你很可能就是一名击剑运动员。

You're most likely a fencer if you've experienced going into a fencing club or competition and slipping all over a strip, even though your shoes might seem clean, you've wiped your shoes on your socks, on a carpet and whatnot.

Edge 能彻底解决这些问题，真正降低了清洁鞋子的门槛，让你在对抗对手时获得优势，并且让你有信心不会在场上打滑。

Edge gets rid of all of that and it genuinely decreases the barrier to cleaning your shoes and getting that edge over your opponents and the fact that you have confidence that you're not gonna be slipping around.

史蒂文和我一直在使用它，这是一款很棒的产品。

Steven and I have been using it and it's a great product.

去了解一下吧。

Give it give it a, you know, check.

去看看吧。

Check it out.

看一下。

Look at it.

那里有些东西。

There's something there.

史蒂文认为那里有些东西。

Steven believes there's something there.

萨姆，那里有东西。

Sam something there.

对抓地力还不是完全信服。

Not fully convinced on the grip.

再说一遍，鞋子上的效果非常好。

Again, on the shoes, it works great.

我觉得这很有趣。

I think this is fun.

我们以后会做更多科学实验。

We'll do more science experiments in the future.

谢谢你们的耐心。

Thanks for bearing with us.

嗯。

Yeah.

谢谢你们的耐心。

Thanks for bearing with us.

那真是一个非常有趣的感谢，谢谢你这一小段。

That was a really fun Thank little you for little bit.

为科学做出牺牲。

Being a sacrifice to science.

嗯。

Yeah.

萨姆为了科学牺牲了他的握力。

Sam has sacrificed his grip to science.

你知道，希望它能挺过来。

You know, hopefully, it survives.

萨姆，你有什么收获吗？

You have any takeaways, Sam?

我老实说还不确定，因为确实感觉更抓手了。

I I I honestly don't know yet because it definitely did feel more grippy.

我只是不知道这是好事还是坏事。

I just don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

你愿意在训练中试试吗？

Are you willing to test it out at a practice?

嗯。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

好的。

Alright.

所以萨姆将进行测试。

So Sam's gonna be testing it out.

我们会在未来的节目中再跟你们反馈。

We'll be getting back to you guys in future episodes.

好的。

Okay.

好吧，这对我们的粉丝来说就是11月14日了。

Well, that's that's that's November 14 for our fans.

好的。

Alright.

所以我想再深入一点。

So wanna get into a little bit more.

史蒂文，我觉得你应该问下一个问题，因为我有个后续问题特别想问，而且没计划过。

So, Steven, I think you should go to the next question because I have a follow-up that I I would really like to ask and it's not planned.

我觉得这个问题是对当前问题的一个很好的延伸，

I think that it comes as a good follow-up from the current question that's

当然。

Oh, absolutely.

接下来要问的。

Gonna be asked.

所以简单聊聊你的历程，最近的一个里程碑——也许不是最近的那个，但是你击剑生涯中最近的一个重要节点。

So just kinda speaking about your your journey and the most recent sort of milestone maybe not the most recent milestone, but a recent milestone in your overall life and fencing journey.

你从普通学生转变为大学运动员的过程是怎样的？

What was your transition becoming a d one college athlete like?

到了大二，这种转变已经不那么新鲜了，你觉得呢？

And what being on, you know, your sophomore year, sort of it's it's a less fresh transition now.

当然，每一年都有它独特的挑战，你也在不断学习，但你会给那些刚进入大学的学生运动员——不仅仅是学生运动员，还包括任何进入大学的人——什么建议呢？尤其是那些和你有相似经历的人，不仅要适应大学和大学体育，还要面对国际赛事繁重的旅行安排。

Obviously, each year brings its own unique challenges, and you're learning along the way, but what advice would you give to student athletes entering college as and not just student athletes, but anyone entering college and ultimately, you know, people with a similar experience to yourself where you're not only making this transition into college and college athletics, but you have a very demanding travel schedule for the international circuit as well.

你当时不仅参加青少年赛事，还同时参加成年组赛事和C双A赛事、全国赛事。

You know, you were doing not just the junior, but also the senior circuit and C double a circuit, national circuit.

你能简要描述一下这段经历吗？另外，对于正在经历这种转变的人，你有什么建议？

Can you sort of, a, eliminate that experience and b, you know, what advice would you give to someone going through that transition as well?

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这确实非常繁重，既要作为大学生运动员，又要兼顾全国和国际赛事。

I would say definitely it is a lot, of course translating to an athlete in college and also doing everything in the nationally and internationally as well.

我不认为这对大多数运动来说是这样的。

I don't believe like that's the case for more for most sports.

我不确定。

I don't know for sure.

但我感觉击剑在这方面相当独特。

But I I feel like fencing is pretty unique in that regard.

这确实非常忙碌，毫无疑问，尤其是在我还在参加青少年比赛的大一那年。

And, yeah, it's it's def it definitely is a lot, no doubt, especially during my freshman year when I was also in juniors.

但我认为这还是可以管理的。

But it's it's pretty manageable, I would say.

你确实会有更多赛事和更多旅行，因为如果你参加全国和国际赛事，本身就够多了——有八站世界杯，加上世锦赛、分区赛和每年大约四次的NAC赛。

You definitely have more, events that you like, more traveling as well because, like, as well if you're doing the national circuit, international circuit, it's already a lot because there's eight World Cups plus the world's in the zonals and then NACs, like, around, like, four times a year.

所以你还要参加大学比赛，每年大概四到五次，再加上NCAA和其他赛事。

So then you're also going to college meets, however many times it is, like, four or five, something like that, and then the NCAAs and everything.

因此，尤其是在三月这样的几个月里，比赛数量确实可能非常多。

So it definitely can be a lot of tournaments, especially in a couple months like March, for example.