第64集：你正在变得……非常……屁股疼？

你有没有幻想过，用催眠术让那个总是对你调情的帅气调酒师跟你回家，然后把你放在膝盖上好好打一顿？

Have you ever fantasized about hypnotizing that hot bartender who flirts with you into coming home with you so you can get him across your knee for a good firm spanking?

可惜，事实并非如此。

Well, too bad.

事情不是这样的。

That's not how it works.

但这并不意味着催眠不能真正改善你的鞭打体验——它能帮你进入作为严厉主导者或调皮服从者的心理状态。

But that doesn't mean that hypnosis can't actually improve your spanking play by helping you find your headspace as either a stern top or a misbehaving bottom.

史蒂夫与热bot斯科特讨论了催眠与恋物癖的交集。

Steve joins Hot Bot Scott to talk about the intersection between hypnosis and kink.

继续听下去吧，伙计们。

Listen on, dudes.

欢迎收听《Dudes Spake A Dudes》播客第64期。

Welcome to episode 64 of the dudes spake a dudes podcast.

这档播客不是关于17世纪的UFO目击事件，也不是关于它们最疯狂的颁奖典礼丑闻。

This is not a podcast about seventeenth century UFO sightings, nor is it a podcast about their wildest awards show scandals.

这是一个关于喜欢被揍的男生和被其他男生揍的男生的播客。

This is a podcast about dudes who are spanky dudes and dudes who are being spanked by other dudes.

本集由两位男生主持。

This episode is hosted by two dudes.

嗨。

Hi.

我是史蒂夫。

This is Steve.

嘿，史蒂夫。

Hey, Steve.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

这是斯科特，也叫热力机器人斯科特。

This is Scott, also known as Hot Bot Scott.

你已经参加了不知道多少期了，但肯定不少了。

It has been I don't know how many episodes you have been on at this point, but it's been a lot.

确实有几期了，我每次来这里都很享受。

It it's been a few, and I always enjoy being here.

是的。

Yep.

是的。

Yep.

我之所以特别邀请你参加这一期，是因为本期的主题是你非常了解的——虽然我不确定你是否会称自己为专家，但你肯定比我们圈子里的任何人都更懂催眠。

And I specifically asked you on this episode because of the episode subject is something that you are an well, I I don't know if you would call yourself an expert, but you certainly know more than probably anyone else in our speaking community about, and that is hypnosis.

我们稍后会谈到这个。

And we will get to that.

但首先，已经过去几个月了。

But first of all, it's it's been a few months.

我假期非常忙，所以没能录制任何内容。

I had a very busy holiday season, so I was not able to record anything.

你的假期过得怎么样？

So how were your holidays?

哦，过得非常好。

Oh, they were great.

时不时来一段安静的休息总是很惬意，今年尤其如此。

It's always nice to have a a quiet break every once in a while, and this year, it definitely was.

非常开心。

So a lot of fun.

希望你的假期也很愉快。

Hope yours were good as well.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

很愉快，很放松。

It was nice and relaxing.

只是稍微远离了其他事情，除了我们的OTKLA圣诞派对。

Just just spending time kind of away from things other than this the the our OTKLA Christmas party.

所以至少我还是安排了一些惩罚，但大部分时间，这个秋天和圣诞节、新年假期都过得很放松。

So I so I did at least get some spankings in, but mostly, it's been a relaxing fall, relaxing Chris holiday season, Christmas, New Year's, all of that sort of thing.

不过现在我正试图重新进入状态，这意味着在进入催眠话题之前，我们得先聊聊一些即将发生的活动。

So but trying to get back now in the swing of things, and that means we have to talk about first about before getting into hypnosis about various upcoming events.

所以，我希望我能在及时之前把这件事发布出去。

So first, hopefully, I'll get this up in time.

如果来不及，那我之前已经录好了一个特别公告。

If not, that's why I already recorded a special announcement.

Hot Seat Vegas 的注册将于1月24日星期六下午1点（东部时间），上午10点（太平洋时间）开放。

Registration for Hot Seat Vegas opens on January 24, which is a Saturday starting at 1PM eastern time, 10AM pacific time.

今年的Hot Seat Vegas将在7月22日至7月26日举行。

Hot Seat Vegas will be this year, July 22 through July 26.

我已经在第63期节目中提到过，但对那些可能没听过的听众，可以访问hotseatvegas.com获取更多信息。

I already talked about it in the episode 63, but for those who might not have listened, check out hotseatvegas.com for more info for that.

我们又要换场地了。

We're changing venues again.

我们订了一家很棒的酒店，空间非常大。

We've got a great hotel that's gonna have a lot of space.

一定会非常有趣。

It's gonna have gonna be a lot of fun.

如果可能的话，建议尽早注册，以便争取我们预留的楼层区域，我们一开始会预留一个区块。

You'll want to register early if possible to try and get up in the floor that we have, and our we start off with a block.

我们已经预订了90间房，希望能让大家都住进去。

We have a contract for a block of 90 rooms, so we wanna get everyone in there.

如果我们超出这个数量，只要大家早点注册，我们就有充足时间协调处理相关的后勤安排。

And if we go over that, we'll have plenty of time if people register early to coordinate and deal with the logistics of that.

所以，如果你没法在24号注册也没关系，但请千万不要拖延这件事。

So please, if you can't register on the twenty fourth, that's fine, but please, please don't sit and wait on this one.

之后，三月份，Hot Seat Retreat将再次回归。

Following that, in March, of course, hot seat retreat comes back.

这将是我们的第五年。

This will be our fifth year.

是的。

Yes.

这有点奇怪，因为我们从2020年开始，但新冠疫情抹去了一年，所以这将是第五年。

It's weird because we started 2020, but but COVID erased a year, so this will be year five.

时间是3月18日到22日。

It's gonna be March 18 through the twenty second.

度假村当然已经住满了，但附近有备用酒店，我们非常希望你们都能去那里。

The resort, of course, is full, but there are overflow hotels nearby, and we'd love to have you all there.

还有你，史蒂文，也会在那里。

And you, Steven, will be there.

对吧？

Correct?

我一定会去。

I absolutely will.

角色扮演环节也会回归，你 again 将继续协助校长办公室的角色扮演环节。

And the role play tracks will be back, and you again will be helping with the principal's office role play track.

当然非常期待。

And looking forward to that for sure.

是的。

Yep.

所以如果有学生一直惹麻烦，你可能得处理校长办公室的事。

So if there are any students who have been getting themselves in trouble, you might have to deal with principal wait.

你的头衔是什么？

What is your title?

是校长史蒂夫，还是副校长史蒂夫？

Is it principal Steve, vice principal Steve?

哦，校长史蒂夫。

Oh, principal Steve.

我很乐意处理所有需要被处理的学生。

And I'm happy to deal with all of the students who happen to need to be dealt with.

好。

Yeah.

粉红色的挂绳又回来了，我意识到即使作为受方，我仍然可能是个霸凌者，所以我正在努力改进。

And the pink lanyards are back, and I am I'm realizing that I could still be a bully as a bottom, so I am working.

我想象自己做出那种‘ plotting ’的手势，就是把手放在你面前的那种动作。

I am I imagine me making the the plotting fingers where, you know, you're just have the hand in front of you.

我确保每个戴粉红色挂绳的人都会好好挨打，包括我自己。

I'm making sure anyone with a pink lanyard gets good and spanked, including myself.

根据一些戴粉红色挂绳的男孩反馈，他们表示希望获得更多关注。

So based on some of the feedback we've gotten from the pink lanyard boys saying that they want more.

他们希望被特别针对，得到非常集中、非常彻底的惩罚。

They want they want they want to be targeted and and really, really focused on for spanking.

所以我会在这方面多下功夫。

So I'm gonna work on that.

接下来我想聊聊来自佐治亚州‘Badass Weekend’的朋友们推出的一个新活动。

And then a new event I want to talk about by our buddies from Badass Weekend in Georgia.

这个活动是在我录制上一集（第63集）之后才公布的，我记得是在Badass Weekend的最后一个晚上提到的。

This wasn't announced until after I did the live recording last in the last episode, in episode 63, they brought this up on, I think, the last night of Badass weekend.

他们推出了一项名为‘Badass Weekend Unplugged’的新活动。

They have launched a new event called Badass weekend unplugged.

活动将在四月举行，地点仍位于佐治亚州奥古斯塔的同一度假村。

It will be taking place in April from April, and it's gonna be taking place at the same resort in Augusta, Georgia.

他们这样做的原因是，这个活动不会安排所有的节目、规划、餐饮等服务。

And what they're doing, the reason it's called unplugged is it's not going to have all the programming and the planning and the catering and all that stuff.

因此，只需支付50美元的注册费即可。

So it's just going to have a $50 registration fee.

你需要自行预订房间。

You'll be booking your own room.

没有最低要求。

There are no minimum requirements.

活动结构非常简单。

It's very simply structured.

如果你还没参加过Badass Weekend，要知道尽管这个度假村或酒店源自20世纪50、60年代的公路时代，但已经翻新过了。

They have if you If you haven't been to Badass weekend, know that even though it's an old resort or hotel from back in the 50s and 60s highway era, It's been remodeled.

这是一个同性恋度假村，内置了一个地下室，他们会直接用这个地下室作为活动空间。

It is a gay resort, and it has a built in dungeon, and so they'll just be using that dungeon for play spaces.

度假村内有一家咖啡厅提供早餐，但活动期间不会安排有组织的餐饮，不过大家会自行结伴去餐厅吃饭。

There is an on-site cafe that will be for breakfast, but there aren't going to be organized catered meals during the event, but groups will be going out to restaurants and all that sort of thing.

他们不会像往常那样举办工作坊，但会安排一些有组织的活动。

They won't be having any workshops like they usually do, but there'll be some organized activities.

所以这将是一场更便宜的活动。

So it's gonna be a cheaper event.

我不能保证机票会更便宜，毕竟机票价格取决于市场，但注册费只有50美元。

I I can't promise that the flights will be any cheaper the way that the way the flights are due, but it's only a $50 registration fee.

作为交换，你不会得到所有餐饮服务，这正好说明了我们这些组织活动的人在餐饮上花了多少钱。

So and in exchange for that, you're not getting all the food, which just goes to show how much money we, those of us who organize these events, have to spend on food.

如果你感兴趣，请访问 bawevent.com。

If you're interested, go to bawevent.com.

这就是我们即将举办的活动的全部内容。

And so that is it for our upcoming event.

哦，还有，当然，红尾营地也将在七月举行。

Oh, and also, of course, Camp Red tails will be coming up also in July.

所有这些活动，和往常一样，都列在WAPPZ网站上，w h a p p z。

All of these events, as always, are listed up on WAPPZ, w h a p p z.

所以去看看WAPPZ吧，获取关于这些计划活动以及全国各地乃至全球各地举办的众多派对的更多信息。

So check out WAPPZ, and get more information about all of these planned activities and a host of other parties that take place around the country and on and around the world.

那么，让我们来谈谈催眠，对于那些没有真正参与过这种烘焙与BDSM社群、也未曾见过催眠在我们各个社群中日益增长兴趣的人来说，这可能显得非常奇怪。

And so with that, let's talk about hypnosis, which probably seems super weird for someone who doesn't hasn't really been part of this baking and kink community and hasn't really seen hypnosis and interest in hypnosis growing in our various communities.

史蒂文，你曾参加过各种活动，比如最糟糕的周末，你在那时催眠了我，我们也会聊到这个，还有我的热座活动，以及你开设的课程，你在这些课程中讲解并演示催眠。

Steven, you have come out to various events, but baddest weekend, where you hypnotized me, and we'll talk about that, and my hot seat events, and have done classes where you talk about and demonstrate hypnosis.

首先，我们会先谈谈催眠的一般情况，然后再深入探讨催眠实际上能为喜欢鞭打的人带来哪些好处。

First, we'll just talk about hypnosis in general, and then we'll get into what hypnosis can actually do or benefit those of us who are into spanking.

那么，我们先从你最初是怎么接触到这个的开始说起吧。

So let's start with, like, how how did you get into this?

嗯，我想和很多人一样，我接触催眠最初是通过大学时看的一场舞台催眠表演。

Well, I I I think like like many people, my introduction to hypnosis was actually through a stage hypnosis show when I was in college.

我记得当时看了一场催眠师的表演，他是一位非常有才华且在当时相当有名的催眠师，我觉得这太酷了，很想多了解一些。

I remember watching the hypnotist who was a very talented and fairly well known at the time hypnotist and thinking, That's really cool and I'd like to learn more about that.

这促使我先开始阅读相关资料，然后观看有关催眠的视频，最后接受了正式的催眠训练。

That prompted me to first start reading about it, then to start watching videos about it, then to actually get formally trained in hypnosis.

在学习过程中，除了其他方面，最让我感兴趣的是催眠与BDSM之间的关系。

As I was going through, what really intrigued me among other things was what is the relationship between hypnosis and kink?

这种兴趣多年来不断积累，最终带我走到今天这一步。

So it's been a building interest over a number a number of years that's, led to this point.

很有趣。

Interesting.

那我们来打破一些关于催眠的迷思吧。

So let's let's bust some myths about hypnosis.

我们先不谈催眠到底是什么，

So so we'll start rather than talking about first what hypnosis is.

而是先说说它不是什么，因为流行文化给了我们太多关于催眠的荒谬想法。

Let's talk about what it isn't because people have, pop culture have given us a lot of wild ideas about what hypnosis is.

流行文化确实如此，我甚至可以说，流行文化中对催眠的大多数描绘都严重偏离了它的真正本质。

Pop culture certainly has, and I would go so far as to say that most depictions of hypnosis in pop culture are fairly inaccurate as to what it's really all about.

最大的误解就是，人们认为催眠是一种心灵控制，催眠师能让被催眠者做任何他们想让对方做的事。

You know, the biggest myth, the biggest thing that people think is that hypnosis is some kind of mind control where the hypnotist can cause the person being hypnotized to do anything that they want them to do.

对此至少有两个方面是完全错误的。

And, there there are two points at least on which that is incorrect.

第一，催眠绝对不是心灵控制。

One, hypnosis is absolutely not mind control.

事实上，我甚至可以说，催眠其实建立在相当强的自我控制基础上。

In fact, I would go so far as to say that hypnosis is really grounded in quite a bit of self control.

催眠师所做的，是帮助个体关闭内心那个过于评判和消极的部分，那个总说‘我做不到’的部分。

What a hypnotist is doing is helping an individual turn off the part of their mind that's a little bit judgmental and negative that says, can't do that.

帮助他们去体验那些他们渴望体验的事情。

Helping them to be able to experience things that they would like to experience.

催眠师既不会、也无法关闭一个人内心那个说‘我就是不想做’的部分。

The hypnotist does not and in fact cannot turn off the part of somebody's mind that says, I won't do that.

这不是思想控制，也不是让你强迫某人做他们本来不想做、不愿意做的事。

It's not mind control and it's not something where you can make an individual do something that they don't otherwise want to do, that they're not willing to do.

催眠实际上把很大的力量交到了被催眠者自己手中，帮助他们释放自我，探索他们想探索的事物。

Hypnosis really puts a lot of power in the hands or the mind of the person being hypnotized to free themselves and to explore things that they would like to explore.

是的。

Yeah.

所以它不能让你做你内心并不想做的事，但它确实能促使你去开展那些有心理障碍阻止你去做的行为。

So it can't make you do something that you're not inclined to do, but it can really prompt you to engage in behaviors that there are whatever, there are mental blocks that are stopping you from doing.

比如，除了社区层面的例子，催眠在现实世界中的一个实际应用是：如果一个人真的有意愿戒烟，但吸烟具有成瘾性，戒烟很困难，催眠就能帮上忙，对吧？

So for example, how outside of community things, an example of what hypnosis can do in the real world, practice, is if someone is inclined and genuinely wants to quit smoking, but smoking is addictive and it's a struggle, hypnosis can help with that, right?

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

你提到的关键点是，他们有这种意愿，并且通常希望实现这一目标。

And what you said is the key point that they're inclined and they generally want to accomplish it.

如果真是这样，那么催眠就能帮助他们达成目标。

If that's the case, then hypnosis can help them with that.

催眠实际上有多种临床应用。

There are actually a number of clinical applications of hypnosis.

我特别想强调，它不是一种客厅把戏或游戏。

And I really wanna emphasize that it's not a parlor trick or a game.

它有许多非常有益的用途。

There there are a lot of very beneficial uses that it can bring.

那么，我们来谈谈被催眠时的感觉，或者真正发生了什么？

So let's talk about what it feels like or or what really happens when we are hypnotized?

我可以给你一个概括性的回答，我相信你对此也有一些自己的体会。

Well, I I can give you a general answer, and and I'm sure you have some perceptions to share on this as well now.

但有时候，我曾催眠过一些人，并且让他们深度进入催眠状态。

But, you know, there are times where I've hypnotized individuals and in fact, taken them very deep into hypnotic phenomena.

当他们从催眠状态中恢复过来时，我通常会问一个问题：你觉得你被催眠了吗？

And when they emerge and they come out of the hypnotic state, one question that I'll ask is, so tell me, do you think you were hypnotized?

而我有时会得到的回答是：没有，我没有被催眠。

And the answer that I will sometimes get is no, I wasn't.

我会问：那你为什么觉得你没有被催眠呢？

And I'll ask, I'll say, okay, why do you think you weren't?

因为从我看到的情况来看，你实际上已经被催眠了。

Because everything that I'm seeing you actually were.

我得到的回答是：我知道自己在哪里，知道你在跟我说话，也知道你在给出暗示。

And the answer I get is, well, I knew where I was and I knew you were talking to me and I knew you were giving suggestions.

这完全正确。

That's absolutely true.

你不会变成僵尸。

You're not going to become a zombie.

你也不会进入睡眠状态。

You're not going to go into a sleep state.

你会清楚自己身处何处。

You're going to know where you are.

你会感受到你所坐的椅子。

You're going to feel the chair you're sitting in.

你会意识到有人在对你说话。

You're going to know that someone is speaking to you.

这并不是一种思维突然消失、彻底断开的感觉。

It's not a sense where your mind just drops off and vanishes.

不过，它可能会带来一种非常放松的感觉。

Now, it can have a feeling that's very relaxed.

有些人会感受到深度的放松，整个人深深陷进椅子里，感觉非常舒适。

Some people feel deep, deep relaxation and they just sink back into that chair and feel good.

但事实上，这种体验因人而异。

But really, it varies by person.

所以如果有人问：催眠是什么感觉？

So if someone asks, what does hypnosis feel like?

我有时会这样回答：它感觉就像你想象中它该有的样子，因为每个人的体验都会略有不同，没有统一的标准。

One answer that I sometimes give is it feels like what you think it feels like because for everyone, it's going to vary a little bit and there's no one standard.

但我真正想告诉人们的是：不要以为只要你清楚自己正在经历什么，你就没有被催眠。

But just what what I really wanna tell people is don't assume that if you feel like you know what's going on, you're not hypnotized.

你完全可以被催眠，同时仍然感觉身处当下。

You very well can be hypnotized and still feel like you're in a moment.

是的。

Yeah.

这非常符合我的体验，我们稍后会深入讨论这一点。

That was very much my experience, and and we'll get into that.

你在讲授这些课程、研讨会或无论你如何称呼它们时，非常强调的一点是我们自己已经在做这件事了。

One of the one thing that you are very big on talking about when you were giving these these classes or or seminars or whatever you wanna call them about hypnosis is that we already do this to ourselves.

对。

Yes.

你能解释一下吗？

Could you explain that?

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

催眠是一种意识状态。

So hypnosis is a state of consciousness.

它与正常的清醒意识状态不同。

It's distinct from the normal waking state of consciousness.

但如果你想想催眠师在做什么，催眠师只是在和某人说话，真正起作用的是你的大脑。

But if you think about what a hypnotist does, all a hypnotist is doing is talking to someone, and your mind is what's doing the work.

还有一种是自我催眠。

Well, there's self hypnosis.

你不需要别人来引导你进入催眠状态。

You don't need someone to guide you into hypnotic state.

所以我会举几个例子。

So I'm gonna give a couple of examples here.

如果你曾经在看电视时，完全沉浸在一个节目里，以至于周围的一切都消失了，你的全部注意力都集中在屏幕上。

If you've ever been watching something on television and you become so engrossed in that program that the rest of the room fades away and all your attention goes onto that screen.

也许节目结束后，你会说，真棒。

Maybe when the program is over, you say, that was great.

那肯定已经过了三十或四十分钟。

It must have been thirty or forty minutes.

你看看表，已经过了两个小时。

You look at your watch, it was two hours.

或者如果有人走进房间跟你说话，你会吓一跳，因为你完全沉浸在屏幕里的内容中。

Or if somebody were to come in the room and just speak to you, you jump startled because you're so invested in what's playing on that screen.

那时你其实已经进入了一种催眠状态。

That's actually a trance state that you're in at that point.

另一个我觉得这个观众可能熟悉的例子。

Another example that I think might be familiar to this audience.

如果你曾经参与过某种鞭打场景，而且你的意识如此深入，以至于你所在房间的环境都不再重要。

If you've ever been involved in a spanking scene of some kind and your headspace is so deep that, again, the room where you're in doesn't matter.

你可能正在一个酒店房间里，但当你进入所扮演的场景时，整个房间都消失了。

You may be playing in it's a hotel room just melts away as you go into whatever scene you're doing.

同样，你可能会感到时间压缩，觉得只过了十分钟，实际上已经过了三十分钟。

And again, you might feel that time compression and feel like ten minutes have gone by when it's thirty minutes.

你和伴侣如此投入、默契，一切都自然而然地流畅进行。

And you feel so in the zone and in sync with your partner that everything just flows naturally.

这同样是一种恍惚状态。

Again, that is a trance state.

我们可以主动创造这种状态，作为送给自己的一份礼物，去追求自己真正热衷、全心投入的事情，此时此刻，它就成了我们的现实。

We can create this ourselves as a way to give ourselves the gift of pursuing something that we're really committed to, really interested in, and that for the moment becomes our reality.

这同样是一种恍惚状态。

Again, that's a trance state.

催眠就非常类似这样。

Hypnosis is a lot like that.

我们每个人都可能经历过，也绝对有能力做到这一点。

We all probably have done this and certainly have the capability of doing this.

是的。

Yeah.

在几个播客节目中，当我谈到自己作为 submissive 的行为时，我提到过一件事——虽然我不想说这很独特，因为我听说其他男性也有类似的做法。

In several podcast episodes, when I talk about how I behave as a bottom, one the things I mentioned and because I I it's it's I don't wanna say it's unique because I've heard other guys doing this too.

我实际上在Badass周末遇到了另一个人，他也这么做——当我进入作为受方的心境，当打屁股变得激烈时，我会开始低吼。我明确表示，这并不是我主动选择的行为，也不是我能控制的。

I actually met someone else at Badass Weekend who also did this, which was when I am in my headspace as a bottom and the spanking starts to get intense, I start to growl, and I've made it very clear that this is not something that I choose to do, and it's not something that I control.

它只是自然而然发生的，这是一种自我催眠的形式。

It's just something that happens, and that is a form of self hypnosis.

对吗？

Correct?

听起来确实如此。

It certainly sounds like it.

是的。

Yeah.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

当你让我进入状态时，我突然想到了这一点，所以大家才会都说，哦，这就像你描述完之后，我感受到那种氛围，感受到那种感觉时一样？

That actually occurred to me while you had me under, and and that's so why everyone's really saying, oh, this is you know, after you were describing this, and I was feeling the space, and I was feeling you know?

当被打屁股并达到那个状态时，那就是一种催眠状态。

And and it's like, oh, when I'm being spanked and I get to that point, that is a trance.

而低吼只是我那一刻感受的一种表现，我希望那个时刻能保持那样。

And the growling is just sort of a a manifestation of how I'm feeling at that moment and that I want that moment to to stay that way.

你把这些讲座和演示带到了Bettis周末和Hot Seat。

So you've brought these lectures and demonstrations to Bettis Weekend, to Hot Seat.

你做过演示，说来有趣的是，作为组织者，我之前从未能参加过你在Hot Seat的活动，因为总有其他事情要处理。

You you've given demos, and I ended up it's funny because as an organizer, I had never actually been able to attend your events at my own at either hot seat because of other things that were going on.

所以当Badass周末到来时。

So Badass weekend comes around.

我想，这次我要去参加，因为我一直没能做到。

It's like, I'm going to attend this because I haven't been able to do that.

而且说实话，我参加是有动机的，我想我甚至在课前就跟你聊过，应该吧。

And, honestly so I had a motive for attending, and I think I kinda made it very clear to you even I think we chatted before the class, I think.

我们聊过。

We did.

我一直以来的一个难题是难以进入 submissive 的状态，我对此非常坦诚，也正因如此我才不断提到低吼，因为低吼对我来说极其重要——我的思维非常活跃，这在职业上对我很有帮助，作为活动组织者也同样受益，因为我总在思考各种可能需要处理的事情，而这效果非常好。

And one of the things I struggle with, I struggle with getting into bottom head space, and I'm very open about it and how important that's why that that I keep bringing up the growling, and the growling is super important to me because I have an extremely active mind, which works for me very well professionally, works very well even as an event organizer because I'm always thinking of things that might need to be and, you know, and that works out really well.

这会妨碍我成为一个好的受方。

It can get in the way of being a good bottom.

这是我感到沮丧的一点，也是我在寻找解决方法的问题。

It's one of the things that's frustrated to me and one of the things that I'm looking for ways to deal with.

我当时在想，催眠或许是一种解决办法。

And I was thinking that hypnosis might be a way to do that.

而在催眠状态下，那正是我获得的一个领悟。

And while I was under, that was kind of one of the revelations.

我意识到，原来我一直在这么做。

It's like, oh, I am doing that.

我只是需要弄清楚如何让它发生。

I just need to figure out how to make it happen.

所以这就是我的动机。

So that was my motive.

而你做了那场演讲。

And you gave the speech.

我们在这期播客中讨论的大部分内容，实际上是你在这门课程和研讨会上所做事情的引言。

Much of what we were talking what we're much of what you're talking about here in the podcast episode is kind of the intro to what you what you did in this class, this seminar.

然后你为观众做了一个演示，稍微让我们进入催眠状态，并让我们做一个特定的手势——这个动作在播客里很难描述，但你慢慢让我们把手指靠拢。

And then you did a demonstration for the audience where you put us a little bit under and then had us do a a hand gesture, a particular or putting our it's impossible to explain in a podcast, but it was a little trick where you slowly made us put our fingers together.

我做到了，当时我非常惊讶。

And I did that, and I was immediately very surprised.

所以关于主动思维这个问题，我不是对催眠的作用持怀疑态度，但我确实非常怀疑自己是否能被催眠，我的大脑是否能放松到足以让催眠发生。

So that whole active mind issue, I'm not a, you know, I'm not skeptical about what hypnosis can do, but I was very skeptical as to whether or not I could be hypnotized, whether my mind would relax enough for to allow it to happen.

结果它真的发生了。

And so it did.

因此我特别兴奋。

And so I was super excited.

就在那一刻，我坐在那里，看着自己的手指按照指令行动。

And, like, at that moment, I was sitting there watching my fingers do the command.

我想，这真的管用。

I'm like, it works.

它确实有效。

It absolutely works.

所以当你一说需要志愿者时，我的手就立刻举得老高，因为我早就想参与了。

So I immediately was like, the minute you asked for a bunch of volunteers, my hand just shot completely up because I knew I wanted to do it.

于是他带了我们六个人上台坐好。

So he brought you bought, what, six of us up in chairs.

是的。

Yes.

有趣的是，嗯。

And the interesting yeah.

有趣的是，我们做了一个演示——不是完整的，但确实做了一个。

And the interesting so we did a full well, not full, but we did a demonstration.

对我来说有趣的是，我们四个人，我觉得有四个人比另外两个人进入得更深。

And what was interesting for me is I did it me four of us I think four of us went more deeply under than two others.

而没有那么深进入的两个人，是我和另一个男生。

And the two who didn't go as deeply under was me and another person, another guy.

但有趣的是，我的大脑并没有完全抗拒，这确实是事实。

But it was interesting that it wasn't fully my mind didn't, like, you know, reject it, but it was true.

所以我接受了一些身体上的暗示。

So I would accept some physical suggestions.

有一个时刻，我们被要求放松、闭上眼睛，而我却无法睁开。

There was one point where, you know, we had, you know, we had us relaxed, close our eyes, and I couldn't open them.

我甚至稍微测试了一下。

And I even kind of tested a little bit.

我觉得如果我想的话，是可以打破催眠状态的，但我并不想这么做。

I I felt like I could break the hypnosis if I wanted to, but I didn't want to.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有一个时刻，你让我们通过把双手放在大腿上，只抬起小指来展示我们进入了催眠状态，但你并没有明确告诉我们该怎么做。

And one point where you had us demonstrate that we were under by having us, like, raise have our our hands on our thighs and just raise our pinky finger or that our pinky finger would you didn't tell us.

小指会自己抬起来。

The pinky finger would raise itself.

是的。

Yes.

我当时就想，这到底是怎么发生的？然后我能感觉到，它真的在自己动。

And I was like, well, how does that and then I could feel it, and it was doing it on its own.

这实际上让我内心莫名地兴奋，因为我原本以为这一切都会失败。

And I that actually, again, made me kind of weirdly excited internally because I thought it would all fail.

但对我无效的是心理暗示，我想这是因为你让我们幻想一个角色扮演的情景，扮演一个想要被责打的角色。

But what didn't work for me was mental suggestions, and I think that was the because you had us suggest us fantasize some fantasy role play as being a character that wanted a spanking.

我是说，你到底让我们做什么来着？

I believe that or what was it that you asked us to do?

让你想象自己是任何角色或人格，只要能帮你构建‘责打心境’就行。

To to visualize yourself as whatever whatever character, whatever persona that that would work for you in building Spanking Headspace.

我留得很开放，无论是主导方还是服从方，也不限定具体的角色，只要有一个大致的‘心境’概念就行。

And that I I left it very open for top or bottom and what particular any particular kind of role or just a general notion of Headspace.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

那对我和另一个家伙都没用。

That didn't work for me and the other guy.

之后还有一个催眠后暗示，当我们听到掌声时，就会站起来说：我需要挨打。

And then there was a post hypnotic suggestion afterwards that when after he got us out, when we heard applause, we would stand up and say, I need a spanking.

这对几个人有效，但对我没用。

And that worked for a couple of them, but it did not work for me.

所以聊聊这个吧。

So talk about that a little bit.

所以。

So

这里面有很多内容可以分析。

there's a lot to unpack in there.

有一件事我想说，如果你进来时想着：我不知道这会不会真的有效。

One one thing that that I would say, if if, if you were coming in and thinking, oh, I don't know if this is really going to work.

你能够达到如此深度其实非常了不起，因为通常要进入较深的催眠状态，前提是你得主动表示：是的，我想尝试。

The fact that you reached any depth is actually pretty remarkable because, one of the prerequisites typically for getting into a fairly deep state of hypnosis is coming in saying, yeah, I want to do this.

我准备好了。

I'm ready to do this.

当存在一些怀疑时，这会稍微更具挑战性。

It's a little bit more of a challenge when there's some skepticism.

不过，怀疑是正常的，别误会我的意思。

Now skepticism is healthy, don't get me wrong.

但在我看来，这恰恰说明你取得了更大的成功。

But to me, that just signals an even greater degree of success on your part.

但你提到自己思维活跃。

But you mentioned having an active mind.

有些人比其他人更容易让活跃的头脑平静下来。

Some people are able to quiet their active mind more easily than others.

实际上，针对思维非常活跃、停不下来的人，和那些更容易平静下来的人，有不同的催眠诱导方法。

And actually, there are different hypnotic inductions that are designed for people who have really active minds that are just going and going versus those who are able to quiet them more easily.

根据你思维的活跃程度，通往催眠的途径是不同的。

There are different pathways to hypnosis based on how active your mind is.

我刚才对群体使用的是一种相当快速的诱导方式，旨在快速达到较深的催眠状态，其设计目的是让思维平静下来，并聚焦于催眠的两个核心要素。

The one that I was using with the group was a fairly quick induction that's designed to get some depth pretty rapidly and is designed to quiet the mind and bring what are really the two key two of the key aspects of hypnosis.

其中一个要素是高度集中的注意力，另一个是让思维平静下来，专注于单一事物，同时减少外界干扰，降低对周围环境或其他噪音的担忧。

One is having very focused attention and one which means that the mind is quiet and able to focus on one thing, and minimizing peripheral distractions, minimizing a concern about what else is going on in the space or what other noises are and things like that.

根据你刚才的描述，你成功实现了这一点：保持了专注的注意力，减少了外界干扰，并能跟随身体暗示，比如你提到的，手指上抬、手臂能够固定在某个位置等。

From what you just said, you were able to accomplish that, to have some focused attention, to minimize those peripheral distractions, and to follow the physical suggestions like as you said, having your finger go up, having your arm be able to lock into place and things of that sort.

这很棒。

That's great by the way.

现在，不深入探讨神经科学研究，关于催眠的阶段还存在一些争议。

Now, without getting deep into neurological research, there's a little bit of a debate about stages of hypnosis.

在非常传统的观点中，认为催眠有不同的深度层次，而你所经历的，可以说是较高层次的深度，之后还可以进一步加深，进入与‘心像空间’相关的状态。

In the very classical world, the view is that there are different levels of hypnotic depth and being able to have, what you experienced is kind of, an an upper level of depth and then it can move deeper getting into things that would be associated with headspace.

最新研究显示，导致催眠的神经通路因人而异，这当然很合理，有些人能够获得不同的体验，不是因为深度不同，而是有些人特别擅长对身体感觉做出反应。

New research is showing that the neural pathways that lead to hypnosis actually vary by person, which of course makes sense, and that some people are able to reach different experiences not in terms of depth, but just some people are very adept at responding to the physical sensations.

有些人非常擅长应对视觉化和想象。

Some people are very adept at responding to the visualizations and imaginations.

这因人而异，但你所描述的一切都是成功的。

It really varies by person, but everything that you've described is a success.

顺便说一下，一旦你被催眠过，之后再次进入状态就会更容易，也能达到更深或不同的层次，如果你愿意这么称呼的话。

Once you've been hypnotized, by the way, it becomes easier to go back into translator and to reach even deeper levels or different levels, if you want to call it that, in subsequent experiences.

好的。

Okay.

我们来谈谈这对鞭打意味着什么。

Let's talk about what this means for spanking.

当然。

Sure.

催眠对喜欢鞭打的人有什么好处？

How does hypnosis benefit someone who's into spanking?

嗯，这可以从几个方面体现。

Well, there are several ways that it can.

顺便说一下，我记得你之前提到过，我们现在越来越多地看到虐恋催眠，尤其是在一些皮革活动和更广泛的虐恋活动中。

By the way, one thing that I believe you mentioned earlier that we're starting to see more kink hypnosis, particularly at some of the leather events and some the broader kink events.

有一些课程。

There are classes.

那里有人提供催眠体验。

Are there are people there who offer sessions.

所以它在虐恋圈子里已经有了一定的影响力。

So it has a footprint in kink.

但它在鞭打领域还没有形成很强的影响力，不过我认为它有很多潜在的方式可以做到。

It hasn't really gotten a strong footprint specifically in spanking yet, but I think there are a number of ways that it could.

一种方式是你已经提到过的，那就是通过构建心理空间。

One way is something you've already alluded to and that is through building headspace.

如果某人正在寻找某种特定的心理空间，催眠可以帮助他们发现、建立，或者两者兼有。

If there's a particular style of headspace that somebody is seeking, hypnosis can help them either discover that or build that or both.

这在构建不同类型的场景和体验时可能非常有效。

That can be powerful in building different kinds of scenes and experiences.

另一件事是，它并不一定与施虐受虐相关，但能增强自信。

Another thing that it can do is not necessarily kink specific, but builds confidence.

增强外出与他人接触的自信，提升自我信心，以及对自己技能和对社群贡献的认同感。

Builds confidence in going out and approaching others, builds confidence, just self confidence and feeling good about your skills and your, contributions to the community.

它还能让你实际参与，我会称之为催眠鞭打。

Another thing it can do is you can actually engage in, I'll I'll call it hypno spanking.

有一个更广泛的术语叫催眠施虐受虐，通过它你可以在没有任何身体接触的情况下产生真实的生理感受。

There's a broader label of hypno kink in which you can actually produce the feeling of physical sensations without any physical contact.

无论是让人重温一次美妙的鞭打，还是仅仅想象理想场景中的感觉。

Whether that's having someone relive a great spanking or just visualize the sensations of what an ideal scene might be.

这些都可能对不同需求的人产生强大的影响。

So those are all things that can be kind of powerful for folks depending on what they may be looking for.

我想你曾在一次拉斯维加斯的研讨会上做过这个。

And you dig that at I believe you did that at one of the Vegas seminars.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以你让这些男性都幻想他们曾经接受过的鞭打、最棒的鞭打，或者他们最渴望的鞭打体验。

So you had all these guys fantasizing about a spanking that they received or their their best spanking or their their most wanted spanking.

那进行得怎么样？

How did that go?

所有这些都实现了。

Yes to all.

这关乎建立感官记忆，我们思考其中的视觉层面、听觉层面，以及它实际带来的身体感受——也就是动觉层面。

It's about building, building a sensory memory and we think about, the visual aspects of that, the auditory aspects of that, and how that actually physically felt, the kinesthetic aspects of that.

我邀请人们去做的是，因为再次强调，我无法强迫任何人做任何事，但我邀请那些愿意的人回忆一次特别难忘且积极的鞭打经历，无论他们当时是施虐方还是受虐方，并深入体会这段记忆：去回想当时的感觉、听到的声音、体验到的情绪和看到的景象。

And what I what I invited people to do because again, I can't make anyone do anything, but what I invited people to do if they wish to do so was to remember a particularly, memorable and positive spanking experience they had had either as a dom or a sub, and to really process that memory, to think about what it felt like, to think about the sounds that they heard, to think about the feelings that they experienced and what they saw.

不是以旁观者的视角来看待自己，而是邀请他们透过自己的眼睛去看当时所见，透过自己的耳朵去听当时所闻。

And not as though they're looking at themselves from afar, but I invited them to see through their own eyes what they would have seen, to hear through their own ears what they would have heard.

我们进行了一些练习来构建这种体验。

We went through some exercises to build that.

然后我给出的暗示是：每当我拍手一次，就仿佛他们正在给予或接受一次类似他们曾经经历过的最棒鞭打那样的击打。

Then the suggestion that I gave was that every time I clap my hands, it was as though they were either giving or receiving a SWAT similar to what they gave or received in that most amazing spanking that they had felt.

在我一次特定的活动中，每当我不拍手时，我还会告诉他们：每次我拍手，那种感觉都会变得更强烈，所以我们是逐步增强的。

In one particular session that I did, there were folks who every time I clapped my hands and I also told them, Each time I clapped my hands, that feeling is gonna get even more intense, so we were building it as we went.

但我做过一次演示，当时人们真的大喊大叫，从座位上跳起来，从外表看，他们显然非常享受。

But there was one demonstration I did where people were actually yelling and jumping out of their seats, and from all appearances, really enjoying themselves as well.

这太疯狂了。

It is wild.

那么我们来聊聊，你曾经为一些场景本身进行催眠。

So let's talk about, you have hypnotized people for scenes themselves.

对吗？

Correct?

没错。

Correct.

你能举个例子说明这是怎么发生的吗？

Can you give an example of how that played out?

当然。

Sure.

我来分享一个经历。

I'll share one experience.

顺便说一下，我与之合作的这位人士同意我以无法识别身份的方式分享这个案例。

By the way, the individual that I worked with on this gave his consent for me to share this in a non identifiable way.

我也相信，尊重这种保密性和隐私是很重要的。

I also do believe you know, respecting discretion and confidentiality with that.

但有一位人士特别喜欢学校场景，我也一样。

But there was an individual who particularly enjoys school based scenes, as do I.

他所寻求的是能够迅速进入那种心理状态的机会。

And What he was seeking was the opportunity to very quickly get into headspace.

我们这些做角色扮演的人，有时需要一点时间来构建场景，进入那种心理状态，直到我们说：好吧，一切都在顺利进行。

Those of us who do role playing, sometimes it takes a little bit of time to build scene and get into that headspace and get to the point where we say, Okay, yeah, everything is moving along.

他想要一种更快的方法来实现这一点。

He wanted a quicker way to do that.

就像我刚才描述的重温一次有力的打屁股一样，我邀请他想象的不是打屁股本身，而是场景的布置。

Similar to what I just described with reliving a powerful spanking, I invited him to visualize not the spanking itself, but to visualize the scene setup.

他喜欢学校场景，他希望想象自己是一个学生，站在办公室外等待被叫进去。

He likes school scenes, he wanted to envision being a student outside of an office waiting to be called in.

再次，我们进行了一些练习，基于想象那种情景会是什么样子。

Again, we went through some exercises based on visualizing what that would look like.

我们可以用多种方式做到这一点，但关键在于，如果你想构建这些体验，就必须融入视觉元素、听觉元素和运动感觉元素。

There are a number of ways we can do that, but again, what's really key to the mind if you wanna build these things is building in a visual component, building in an auditory component, building in that kinesthetic component.

然后进一步强化这些感受，让画面更明亮，声音更响亮，让这一切逐渐构建出那个场景的模样。

Then really escalating those, seeing things even brighter, hearing things even louder, and allowing that to build what that scene looks like.

接着，我给了他一个我们称之为‘触发器’的东西。

Then, I gave a, what we call a trigger.

触发器是一种身体动作，当安全且社交场合允许时，我总是这样指导：

A trigger is a physical motion that someone makes that and here's the instruction I always give when it is safe and socially appropriate to do so.

这个触发器能让你几乎瞬间进入那种心理状态，因为你的大脑已经将这个动作——无论它是什么——与你想要达成的特定心理状态联系在一起。

That trigger will allow you to drop almost instantly into that headspace because your mind has associated that movement, whatever it may be, with that particular headspace that you want to accomplish.

我们再次强调，只有在安全的情况下才这么做，也就是说，开车时不行，分心时不行，只有在社交上可以接受的时候才做。

Again, we always say when it's safe to do so, so you know not when you're driving, not when you're distracted, when it's socially acceptable to do so.

所以不要在超市里，如果你恰好做了这个手势的话。

So not in the middle of the grocery store if you happen to make that gesture.

于是他多次使用这个方法，迅速进入一种非常强大的心理状态，这种状态极大地增强了那个场景对他的效果。

So he took that and used it numerous times to very quickly descend into a headspace that was really powerful, that was able to enhance that scene for him.

这就是它如何帮助你生成那种心理状态的方式。

That's how it can help to generate that kind of headspace.

现在，我回到我之前说过的话。

Now, I'll go back to what I said earlier.

一旦你进入那种心理状态，无论你是在扮演任何角色扮演、鞭打场景，还是普通的心理状态、子空间、主空间，你此时都处于一种恍惚状态。

Once you're in that headspace, once you're in any kind of kink or spanking role play or just general headspace, subspace, dom space, you're occupying a trance state at that mind.

这仅仅是一种帮助你更快进入那种状态的方法。

This is just a way to help get there more quickly.

是的。

Yeah.

所以心理状态本质上是一种自我催眠吗？

So headspace is kind of inherently a form of self hypnosis?