娜塔莎·莱格罗

但我最近在推特上跟一些机器人玩了玩。

But, like, I have been playing around on Twitter a little bit with the bots.

你试过这个吗？

Have you been have you tried this yet?

没有。

No.

这是在挑衅吗？

Is it trolling?

那是什么？

What's that?

挑衅？

Trolling?

也不是真的挑衅。

Not really trolling.

我想你可以称之为机器人挑衅之类的。

I guess you could call it, like, bot trolling or something.

我的意思是，我也不太确定那到底是什么。

I mean, I'm I'm not really sure about what it is.

你想听听我的新理论吗？

You wanna hear my new theories?

嗯。

Mhmm.

疯狂的理论？

Crazy theory?

好吧。

Okay.

所以，这个说法基于一个统计数据，可能是个吃了太多大麻布朗尼的人编出来的，说的是美国军方在技术上总是比我们领先七年。

So, I mean, this is based on a statistic that is probably made up by someone who just ate way too many marijuana brownies or something, which is the statistic is the United States military is technologically always seven years ahead of us.

对吧？

Right?

所以美国政府在技术上 somehow 比我们领先七年。

So the US government technologically is somehow seven years ahead of us.

现在，这是否真实，我不确定。

Now whether that's true or not, I don't know.

但听起来挺有道理的。

But kinda makes sense.

他们有大量资金来

They got a lot of money to

就像苹果公司知道他们未来七年内会做什么一样。

In the same way Apple knows what they're gonna be doing in the next seven years or something.

没错。

That's right.

而且苹果公司可能哦，是的。

And Apple's probably oh, yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

他们可能已经拥有了未来会发布的原型产品。

They probably already have prototypes that they're gonna release down the line.

美国军方很可能拥有他们正在研发或已经完成的武器和一些疯狂的设备，但他们不会透露，直到到了使用的时候，因为他们不想让任何人知道他们拥有这些东西。

And the US military probably has they probably have weapons and crazy stuff that they are working on or have completed that they won't talk about until it's time to use them because they don't want anyone to know that they have it.

库兹韦尔，雷·库兹韦尔有这些预测。

So Kurzweil, Ray Kurzweil has these predictions

这是奇点。

It's singularity.

对吧？

Right?

你明白的。

You get that.

所以预测是，我们什么时候能拥有强大的通用人工智能，或者能通过图灵测试的人工智能？

So the prediction is, like, when are we gonna have a a strong general AI or an AI that can when are we gonna have an AI that can pass the Turing test?

最近我一直在想，天哪。

So I've been thinking lately like, oh, shit.

政府和军方，你可以说，是政府的一个分支。

If the government and the military, you could say, is a branch of the government.

如果我们的政府拥有超级先进的技术，他们现在可能已经拥有一个能够通过图灵测试的AI了。

It's and the the government, if our government has access to super advanced technology, they might have an AI by now that could pass the Turing test.

你能告诉我什么是图灵测试吗？

And Can you tell me what the Turing test is?

你根本无法分辨它和人类的区别。

You can't tell the you couldn't tell the difference between it and a person.

如果你和它打电话，你根本分不清它是人还是机器。

If you were, like, on the phone with it, you couldn't tell if it was a person or not.

或者如果你正在

Or if you were

现在肯定会有大量评论说：那个傻妞连图灵测试都不懂。

Now there's gonna be all these comments like, that bitch didn't even know what the Turing test is.

也许告诉你这话的正是个机器人。

Well, maybe that's a robot telling you that.

这就是我正在意识到的，或者说我一直思考的，这是一个非常偏执的想法。

This is my this is what this is what I'm realizing is that or what I've been thinking, and it's a really paranoid thought.

但好吧。

But okay.

这里有一件有趣的事，我们很多人都在想政府。

Here's a funny thing that a lot of us think about the government.

他们在这方面技术上是落后的。

It's where, like, they're behind when it comes to to tech.

你知道吗？

You know?

比如这些老议员，他们对互联网、对推特一无所知。

Like, these old senators, they don't know anything about the Internet, about Twitter.

他们不知道这是什么。

They don't know what this is.

他们中的大多数连发短信都不会。

Most of them can't even text.

但等等。

And it's like, wait.

真的吗？

Really?

你觉得政府对控制互联网、通过互联网操纵公众舆论没有浓厚兴趣吗？

You think the government isn't deeply interested in controlling the Internet, manipulating public opinion through the Internet?

当然有。

Of course they are.

当然有。

Of course, they are.

大公司也是如此。

Same way corporations are interested in it.

任何想要权力的人都会对此感兴趣，因为互联网已经成为我们的公共广场。

Anyone who wants power is going to be interested because the Internet has become our town hall.

对吧？

Right?

所以我一直在做的是，每当特朗普发推文时，或者偶尔特朗普发推时，我会发表一些属于某一立场人群的常用语。

And so what I've been doing is going on to anytime Trump tweets or once in a while when Trump tweets, I'll say things that are the go to phrases for people who are on one side or the other.

所以最近，比如，特朗普是第二好的总统，林肯是第一。

So most recently, like, was like, Trump's the second best president, Lincoln's the first.

但我我

But but I'm

你会从邓肯·特鲁塞尔的账号发这条推文吗？

You'll tweet that from Duncan Trussell's

对。

Yeah.

是网页还是推特？

Webs or Twitter?

MD。

MD.

上面写着邓肯·特鲁塞尔，医学博士。

It says Duncan Trussell MD.

对吧？

Right?

所以它写着，我是医生。

So it says, like, I'm a medical doctor.

所以我会发这条推文，我故意把林肯拼错，因为这个游戏就是这样。

So I'll I'll tweet this, and I misspelled Lincoln on purpose because the game is this.

左派的人称右派的人愚蠢。

People on the left call people on the right stupid.

右派的人称左派的人是精英、高高在上，沉迷于跨性别议题。

People on the right call people on the left elite elitist obsessed with transgender.

对吧？

Right?

这正是现在正在上演的游戏。

That that's the game that is being played right now.

所以如果你使用这些流行语，就会召唤出机器人。

So if you use these catchphrases, you summon the bots.

你会召唤出那些奇怪的账号来找你。

You summon these weird accounts that come to you.

如果你假装自己是左派的人，右派的人就会跑来对你说：滚回好莱坞吧，你这个左翼自由派混蛋之类的。

And if you so if you pose as someone on the left, you're gonna get somebody from the right being like, go back to Hollywood, you leftist, you liberal piece of shit or whatever.

然后你去查看他们的账号，发现他们过去七天里每六分钟就发一条推文。

And then you go to their account and you realize they've been tweeting every six minutes for the last seven days.

他们发的内容都是表情包，而表情包上面全是账号。

And what they're tweeting is memes, and on top of the memes are just accounts.

有这么多这样的账号吗？

There's a lot of accounts like this?

简直难以置信

An unbelievable

有人开始整理这些账号吗？

someone start compiling them?

因为太多了。

Well, because there's so many.

这根本不可能做到。

It would be impossible to do.

所以他们背后并没有人真的去搜索你，看看你是不是立场不对。

So they can't there's not anyone behind it who's like looks Googles you and sees that you're not on the right.

没有。

No.

没有人，根本就没有人。

No one's There's no like

所以这里有两件事在起作用。

So there's two things at play.

第一，没人会投入精力去关注，比如我跟布兰登·沃尔什有一个非常棒的帖子，我假扮成一位松散的罗马尼亚医生。

One, no one's invest like, look at the most I have this fantastic thread with Brendan Walsh where I'm posing as a Romanian medical doctor who is loose

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

等等。

Wait.

你刚才说你不相信什么？

What did you say that you don't believe in?

你之前说了一些很搞笑的观点，关于你作为医生不相信的东西。

You you had some very funny comments that you things things that you don't believe in as a doctor.

嗯，我只是觉得不。

Well, I just don't think no.

这个，是的。

The the yeah.

我扮演的这个医生角色不相信政府对手术进行监管。

The this doctor character that I've been playing doesn't believe in government regulation for surgeries.

对手术。

For surgeries.

对。

Right.

他认为你随时都可以做手术，而布伦丹还补充说，我失去了执照，这个即兴发挥变成了：我之所以失去执照，是因为我给一个婴儿注射了蜂毒，想让他的嘴唇变大，结果婴儿过敏身亡。

He thinks you should be able to do surgeries whenever you want, and and Brendan has added to it that I have temperate that I've lost my license, and the the improv has turned into I get basically, I lost my license because I gave some kind of bee venom to an an infant to make his lips bigger, and he had an allergic reaction, and it killed him.

所以有人对我说，你是个该死的怪物。

So I have people who are, like, saying to me, you are a fucking monster.

你这个该死的垃圾堆。

You steaming pile of fucking shit.

难怪你那些都是机器人？

No wonder you And those are bots?

不。

No.

那些都是真实的人。

Those are those are actual people.

好的。

Okay.

所以现在有两件事在发生。

So there's two things at play.

第一，任何访问我账号的人都会立刻看到，哦，这人就是个混蛋。

One, anyone who goes to my account is gonna see right away, oh, this is just an asshole.

他不是个医生。

It's not a doctor.

我不知道那是什么，但那是个蠢货。

I don't know what it is, but it's a it's a dumbass.

不管这个人是谁，他都不是医生。

Whoever this is is not a doctor.

我敢保证。

I guarantee that.

但没人去深入调查这一点。

But no one's investigating that far.

所以我们有两件事在发生。

So we have two things at play.

第一，很大一部分人群相信他们在推特上看到的任何东西都是真的。

One, a huge swath of the population believes whatever they see on Twitter is real.

他们没有去调查。

They're not investigating.

没人做他们的尽职调查。

No one's doing their due diligence.

此外，还有机器人群利用这一点，等待人们说出关键短语来触发机器人出现，然后发布完全错误的信息。

On to add to that, there are bot swarms that are taking advantage of this and posting facts that are completely wrong by waiting for people to say key phrases that trigger the bots to appear.

我认为这些机器人在双方都有。

And I think the bots are on both sides.

这些机器人被设计成看起来像是支持左派和右派，然后进入一个帖子中开始互相争吵。

The bots are made to look like they're on the left and on the right, and then they land in a thread and start fighting each other.

这淹没了帖子的主要讨论内容。

And that drowns out the main conversation of the thread.

这就是我认为正在发生的事情。

That's what I think is happening.

是谁在背后操控这些机器人？

Who's behind the bots?

无人知晓。

There is no telling.

是俄罗斯吗？

Is it Russia?

是其他国家吗？

Is it some other nation state?

是美国政府吗？

Is it the US government?

是混乱的黑客团体吗？

Is it chaotic hacker hacker collectives?

是4chan吗？

Is it, you know, is it 4chan?

只是些人寻开心，像奇怪的梗法师？

Is it just people having fun, like weird meme sorcerers?

我们不知道。

We don't know.

因为我知道，我听说有人在Facebook上，一旦看到关键词，就会开始发布假新闻，比如那些会让右翼生气的不实新闻。

Because I I I know that I've heard that people are on Facebook and, you know, if they see the buzzwords, they'll just start posting fake news, like news that is not real that will make the right mad.

是的。

Yeah.

而且这并不重要，因为它不是真的。

And then doesn't matter that it's not real.

对。

No.

比如，

Like,

例如，希拉里·克林顿经营着一个性团伙。

for example, the Hillary Clinton runs a sex ring.

对。

Yeah.

那个。

That.

那是一个被当作真实新闻发布的内容。

That was something that was, like, posted as a real story.

那是真的。

That's real.

我的意思是，关于她，我会相信很多事，但可能不会相信她经营儿童性贩运团伙。

I mean, I would believe a lot about her, but maybe not that she runs sex a child sex ring.

我们必须尽到应有的审查责任。

We gotta do our due diligence.

这就是关键。

That's the thing.

我们必须做到，我的意思是，我有一次和一位拉比在一次静修会上聊得很诡异，他提到希拉里·克林顿可能和一个因从海地贩运人口而被捕的人有联系。

We have to do do our I mean, the creepiest con one of I had a very creepy conversation because I was talking to this rabbi at this retreat about I think the thing with Hillary Clinton is that she has some connection to a person who actually got busted for some kind of like human trafficking out of Haiti.

当我这么说的时候，我可能只是被假新闻污染了。

Now when I say that, I could easily have just been infested by fake news.

你很讨厌希拉里·克林顿吗？

And I'm You hate Hillary Clinton?

我确实我不讨厌她。

I I did I don't hate her.

我真的不讨厌她。

I really don't hate her.

我不讨厌奥巴马。

I don't hate Obama.

我不讨厌特朗普。

I don't hate Trump.

我根本不会对他们产生仇恨。

Hate I don't feel hate for them at all.

我只是觉得把这些人奉为英雄简直荒谬。

I just think that it's ridiculous to lionize any of these people.

我喜欢现在人们还在发照片，把希拉里·克林顿当作我们失去的英雄一样追捧。

I love when people now are posting, like, still posting pictures of Hillary Clinton like she's our lost hero.

就是这样。

That.

没错。

Yeah.

不。

No.

不。

No.

那是她失败了。

That's she she failed.

她是战略性地失败了。

She strategically failed.

那个笨蛋

The dim

美丽的女人。

Beautiful woman.

你真的觉得，本可以是什么样子？

You really what what what could have been?

真是太糟了。

It's so fucked up.

嗯，这就是你区分自由派和左派的方式。

Well, that's how you know the difference between, like, a liberal and a leftist.

对吧？

Right?

像自由派还在哭哭啼啼的。

Like, the liberals are still sort of crying.

嗯。

Yeah.

而左派呢，就是很生气。

And the leftists are just the the leftists are, like, pissed.

你知道的。

You know?

你应该生气，因为无论什么策略都彻底失败了。

You should be pissed because whatever the strategy was failed miserably.

现在，因为这个，你知道的，谁知道呢？

And now, because of that, you know, who knows?

我我不清楚，我真的不知道。

I I don't I don't know.

问题在于，你得看看所有事实。

There's so many the problem is, like, you gotta look at, like, all the facts.

你得看所有东西。

You have to look at everything.

对吧？

Right?

我们面临这么多因素在起作用，这不仅仅是单一问题。

We've got all these things at play, and it's not just one thing.

有些因素并不坏，但有些则极其恶劣。

And some of them aren't bad, and some of them are atrocious.

所以，我一直在深入研究这个问题。

And so, you know, I have I've been really exploring this.

我创建了一些虚假账号，就为了去体验一下，你知道那个叫什么吗？

So I have fake accounts where I go on just I I I created a fake account because you know about the fill what's it called?

过滤气泡。

The filter bubble.

你知道这个吗？

You know about this?

嗯嗯。

Mm-mm.

所以过滤气泡就是，你发的推文，你在互联网上浏览的任何内容，都会被人工智能放大。

So the filter bubble is you are gonna tend to whatever you tweet, whatever you go to on the Internet is gonna get amplified by AI.

所以它会开始给你推送更多你感兴趣的东西。

So it's gonna start giving you more of what you like.

而当你不断看到更多你喜欢的内容时，你就变得越来越极端。

And by getting more of what you like, you become a kind of extremist.

而且你已经更容易接触到

And you already get more of

你所喜欢的内容，因为你关注了持有相似观点的人，

what you like by following people who have like minded views,

你的朋友。

your friends.

没错。

That's right.

对。

Right.

然后推特会推荐

And then then Twitter will suggest

更多你朋友关注的类似人物。

More people who are like those who who your friends follow.

是的。

Yeah.

然后你就陷入了过滤气泡。

And then you're in the filter bubble.

所以现在你身处一个回音室，周围都是 mostly 同意你观点的人，这会产生一种激进化的效果，因为你开始认为世界就是这样的。

So now that you're in an echo chamber surrounded by people who mostly agree with you, and then this has the, effect of radicalizing you because you begin to think that's what the world is like.

任何持有不同观点的人都显得疯狂。

And anyone who has a different opinion seems insane.

就好像有人真的有这种感受。

It's like someone want I truly feel that.

过滤气泡。

The filter bubble.

不。

No.

我真的觉得，如果有人支持特朗普，他们可能精神有问题。

I truly feel that if someone is, like, pro Trump, they might be mentally ill.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

他们可能

They might

精神有问题。

be mentally ill.

所以你需要做的是去创建一个电子邮件。

So what you need to do is go create an email.

所有在听的人，都这么做一下，以便你能获得一些同情心。

Everyone listening, do this just so you can get some compassion.

创建一个电子邮件，注册一个假的Twitter账号，把美国国旗的照片设为你的头像。

Create an email, create a fake Twitter account, put a picture of an American flag as your as your image.

你关注了谁？

Who do you follow?

什么？

What?

你关注了谁？

Who do you follow?

就关注他们推荐的任何人。

Just whoever they suggest.

哦。

Oh.

你看到了吗？

You see?

所以当你支持共和党时，就放一面美国国旗。

So you put an American flag when, like, Republican

嗯。

Yeah.

给自己弄点酷的东西，比如搞把枪。

Give give yourself, like, a a cool little, like, say something like Maybe a gun.

爱我的国家，爱我的家人，认为美国是地球上最伟大的国家。

Love my country, love my family, think that America's the greatest country on Earth.

咖啡和枪支。

Coffee and guns.

让美国再次伟大。

MAGA.

让美国再次伟大。

MAGA.

对吧？

Right?

所以就说点那样的东西，然后你会开始关注那些右翼人士，接着你就进入他们的帖子。

So just say something like that, and then what'll happen is, you know, you you start following people who are on the right, and then you go into their thread.

听起来挺有趣的。

Sounds fun.

嗯。

Yeah.

太棒了。

It's great.

然后他们会发一张特朗普列车的照片。

And then they they they'll post like a picture of the Trump train.

他们经常做的一件事就是转推这张特朗普列车的照片，这样你和喜欢特朗普的人就会关注你，你也回关他们。

This is one of the things they do is like, retweet this picture of the Trump train so that you and people who love Trump will follow you and you follow them back.

所以这就是特朗普列车？

So That's the Trump train?

对。

Yeah.

你上了特朗普列车后，很快就会开始收获大量粉丝。

You get on the Trump train and very very quickly, you're you start getting all these followers.

对吧？

Right?

你也会开始关注别人。

And you start following people too.

所以当有人在YouTube上发一些关于塞诺维奇或他妈的任何人的长篇大论时，你就开始发表积极的评论。

And so you start making positive comments when somebody, you know, posts some, like, diatribe on YouTube or whatever about, like, Cernovich or or fucking whatever.

你显然有自己的立场。

You're like you you have, like, obvious opinions

但你的意思是，一旦你开始阅读塞诺维奇、亚历克斯·琼斯的这些帖子，你就会想，哦，没错。

that But you're saying that you once you start reading these Cernovich, Alex Jones, you're you're reading these posts and you're like, oh, yeah.

我想我确实能理解他们的观点。

I guess I really do see their side.

或者你只是笑一笑，觉得这些人真的疯了吗？

Or don't you just like laugh and think, oh, these people really are crazy?

不。

No.

这些人并不疯狂。

These people are not crazy.

他们中的一些人非常孤独，这是一种交在线朋友的方式，但也有一些是机器人。

They're they're some of them are super lonely, you know, and it's a way to, like, make online friends, you know, but some of them are bots.

所以这就创造了一种错觉，如果你基本上这么做，就会让你之前妖魔化的东西变得人性化。

So it's like, it it creates this kid so if you basically, what happens is it will humanize the thing that you've been demonizing.

所以你开始和他们互动，然后意识到，除了这些人以非常强烈的方式效忠于政府、国家或总统，并因这种被污名化的观点而产生共鸣之外。

So you start interacting with them and you realize, oh, aside from the fact that these people have adhered to, I don't know, the government or to the state or to the president in this very intense way and have then bonded over a stigmatized opinion.

除此之外，他们其实很善良。

Aside from that, they're really sweet.

他们身上没有任何邪恶的东西。

There's nothing about them that's, like, evil.

他们真的非常友善。

They're really quite sweet.

他们有点固执，似乎在观念上非常单一，最终认为他做什么都不会错。

They're a little like stubborn and they're they seem to be a little like singular in their concept which is ultimately that he can't do anything wrong.

但很明显，忽视唐纳德·特朗普会利用权力为自己谋取更多权力和财富，这简直是个巨大的疏忽。

But but I mean, it just seems like a huge oversight to not see that someone like Donald Trump is going to use his power to get more power for himself and more money for himself.

比如，那种认为他是个好生意人的想法。

Like, the idea that like, oh, he's a good businessman.

我想

I'd like

看看他为我们的国家做了什么，还有他的商业计划。

to see what he does for our country and his, you know, with his business plan.

他只是在为自己攫取更多钱财。

It's like he's just grabbing more money for himself.

让我想想，这看起来太明显了。

Well, let me And it seems that is like so obvious.

让我们来看看这一点。

Let's let's look at that.

这 definitely 他在花钱，你怎么可能不知道呢？

That is definitely he's spending And how can you not know that?

但事实是，他花了很多钱四处旅行。

But the the truth is he's spending a lot of money traveling around.

他在第一个月打了25次高尔夫。

He's He played golf 25 times the first month

或者说是前五个月。

or the first five months

这对我们来说非常昂贵。

of the It's very expensive for us.

但你必须看整体情况。

But let's you have to look at the whole picture.

而整体情况是，股市比以往表现得更好。

And the whole picture is this, the stock market is doing better than it.

我认为这在历史上从未有过。

I think it's ever done in history.

就像我

Like I

但我搞不懂为什么会这样。

don't understand why that is, though.

那背后的原因是什么？

What's behind that?

嗯，我真的他妈的不知道，正因如此，你知道，我们不是总统。

Well, I I I don't fucking know, which is why, you know, we're not president.

但股市表现非常好。

But the stock market's doing really good.

显然，我认为可能有什么原因，不过这可能只是虚假新闻。

The, apparently, the, I guess there's some kind of, like again, this could be just bullshit news.

我不知道。

I don't know.

某种意义上的就业激增正在发生。

Some kind of, like, job surge in jobs is happening.

由于他和俄罗斯的某种举动，叙利亚已经达成了一项停火协议。

The there's been a a ceasefire that is held in Syria because of whatever he did with Russia.

现在，我们正在对他们实施制裁，而他们却说：我们的关系真奇怪，因为美国政府正在对他们实施这么多制裁。

Now, like, we're sanctioning them and they're like did like, our relationship's weird because the US government is doing all these sanctions against them.

但我想，这或许是以国家耻辱为代价的交易。

But I mean, I guess that's a trade for national humiliation.

因为我最近旅行了很多地方，无论你是在希腊还是加拿大，人们都会问：你们怎么了？

Because I've been doing a lot of traveling and everyone, you know, whether you're in Greece or Canada, people are just like, what's wrong with you?

是啊。

Yeah.

为什么这是你的现状？

Why is that your present?

我的意思是，每个人都很好奇，也很难过，是啊。

I mean, like, everyone's, like, curious and sad and Yeah.

恶心。

Disgusted.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

他被人憎恶。

He's he's reviled.

而且他确实应该被憎恶，因为他是个自我中心、自恋、愤怒、充满报复心的人，公然发布那些显而易见的谎言。

And and and as he should be because he's, he's a egoic, narcissistic, angry, vengeful person who, like, bluntly tweets lies that that are just obvious lies.

对我来说，最重要的是，他任命了杰夫·塞申斯，而塞申斯对致幻剂和毒品持有过时的观点。

And and for me, like, most importantly is he put into power Jeff Sessions who has this archaic, view on psychedelics and drugs.

他想重新发动毒品战争。

He wants to start the war on drugs all over again.

而且他还一直说要停止补贴医疗保健，这实际上会置人于死地。

And also, he keeps talking about wanting to stop subsidizing health care, which will essentially kill.

哦，所以杰夫·塞申斯的目标是重新启动毒品战争？

Oh, so Jeff Sessions' quest is to have to restart the war on drugs?

他确实这么做了。

He did.

他已经重新启动了。

He already restarted it.

所以，我想说的是，你得看全面一点。

So there's all these so but the I guess my point is you gotta look at the whole picture.

他做过不少表面上看起来是好事的事情。

It's like there's lots of stuff that he's done that apparently is good.

比如，叙利亚已经停火了。

I mean, there's a ceasefire in Syria.

这是好事。

That's good.

股市也在蓬勃发展。

The stock market's booming.

这很好。

That's good.

经济的环境。

The economy's Environment.

糟糕。

Horrible.

糟糕。

Horrible.

放松监管太糟糕了。

The deregulations are horrible.

你知道，但你得看全面情况。

You know, it's but you look at we gotta look at the whole picture.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为如果你只看一方面，当你转向右派时，你会发现他们只关注他身上好的一面。

Because if you become singular because when you go to the right and you realize they're singularly focused on what's great about him.

有些人是这样，但不是所有人。

Some people are, not all of them.

但当你转向左派时，你会发现他们只关注他身上糟糕的一面。

But then you go on the left and you realize they're singularly focused on what's bad about him.

不是说真话，这人其实挺搞笑的。

Not like saying the truth, which is the guy's kinda funny.

他很搞笑。

He's funny.

我的意思是，他真的挺搞笑的。

Like, he is funny.

他身上有种特别讨人喜欢的东西，你都能看出来。

There's something really, like, really likable about him that you could see it.

他身上有种笨拙、有魅力、有点臃肿的东西，还有一种说不清的酷劲儿。

There's something about him that's, like, clumsy, charismatic, puffy, at something about him that's, like, kinda kinda cool.

你可能会想和他一起出去玩。

You would wanna hang out with him maybe.

这会很有趣。

It'd be fun.

你知道，如果你和他在一起，他会让你着迷。

You know that if you were around him, he would charm you.

你知道，你听到的一些故事，比如我听说他参加了一个佛教活动，那时你本该脱鞋。

You know, like, the stories you hear about how, like I hear a story about how he showed up at some Buddhist event and your shoes were supposed to be off.

然后有人就说：‘哦，你得把鞋脱了。’

And somebody's like, oh, you have to take your shoes off.

而他非常顺从地脱了鞋。

And he was like supremely he takes his shoes off.

他非常歉意。

He's so apologetic.

他说：‘真的很抱歉。’

He's like, I'm so sorry.

真的很抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

你知道的，有些方面是你必须做的。

You know, like, there's aspects you have to.

好吧。

Okay.

但这并不是什么大问题。

But that is not that big of a deal.

没错。

No.

但我们需要人性化。

But we have to humanize.

我只想说，让我们彼此人性化。

All I'm saying is let's humanize each other.

让我们人性化那些右翼的人。

Let's humanize people on the right.

让我们人性化那些左翼的人。

Let's humanize people on the left.

我们必须这么做。

Let's We have to.

是的。

Yes.

这没那么有趣，因为你无法拥有如此鲜明的敌人。

Let's it's not as fun because you don't get to have these stark enemies.

你最终会面对

You end up with

好吧。

Okay.

那你如何让他们人性化呢？

Well, how do you humanize them?

什么？

What?

你怎么让他们人性化呢？

How do you humanize them?

你怎么去人性化

How do you humanize

你怎么去人性化他们？

How do you humanize them?

这不能只是在你脑子里想想而已。

It can't just be, like, in your mind.

嗯，你得跟他们交谈。

Well, you gotta talk to them.

我的意思是，最关键的就是你得跟他们交谈，而要跟他们交谈，你就得假装成他们。

I mean, that's the main thing is you gotta talk to them and and to talk to them you have to pose as them.

你知道吗，否则他们会对你设防，试图给你上一课。

You know, because otherwise they're gonna put their brakes on around you and try to teach you a lesson.

那种族主义的潜台词呢？

What about the racist undertones?

天啊。

Oh my god.

我的意思是，谁比一个被种族主义这种该死的思想病毒侵蚀的人更值得同情呢？

I mean, who deserves compassion more than than someone who's got the fucking mind virus of racism?

你知道，这就是问题所在，为什么种族主义者会被憎恨？

You know, this is a it's all and why why is the racist hated?

因为种族主义者根据一些任意的特质剥夺了他人的尊严。

Well, because the racist has dehumanized people based on some arbitrary qualities.

我的意思是，这就是问题所在。

I mean, this is the problem.

如果我们的理念是不能让人类这个物种因为国家状态而被如此分裂、割裂的话。

If the idea is we can't let ourselves as a species be broken up in this way, be fragmented over the state.

我们要让这个该死的国家把我们撕裂吗？

We're gonna let the fucking state fragment us?

这太疯狂了。

That's insanity.

这确实如此，我们比以往任何时候都更加分裂，你不这么认为吗？

It's this is definitely, we've been we're more divided than we've ever been, don't you think?

嗯，我认为在我这一生中。

Well, I think that In my in my lifetime.

如果我想攻击一个国家，我会怎么做？

If I wanted to attack a country, how would I do it?

炸弹能做什么？

What does a bomb do?

它制造分裂。

It divides.

它把肉体和骨头分开。

It divides flesh from bone.

它把玻璃和混凝土分开。

It divides glass from concrete.

它摧毁建筑物。

It divides buildings.

炸弹就是制造分裂的。

It's a bombs divide.

因此，这个被投放在我们身上的炸弹——它已经被记录下来了，那就是机器人集群在制造虚假叙事，制造出我们彼此争斗的假象，这可能放大了原本就存在但没那么严重的分裂。

And so this bomb that's been dropped on us and, you know, it's been documented, which is the bot swarms that are creating false narratives and giving the impression that we're fighting each other has possibly amplified a division that was there but wasn't quite as bad as it seemed.

所以，如果你想知道的话，这就是普京在那个采访中说的，那个叫什么名字的女人？

And so if you want I mean, the the this is what Putin in that interview with what's her name?

凯莉，我想不起她的名字了。

Kelly I can't remember her name.

康威？

Conway?

或者不是。

Or no.

凯莉。

Kelly

我想不起她的名字了。

I can't remember her name.

我不记得了，他做了这个采访，他说：‘你知道，我不是有意伤害你的感情，但美国一直在进入其他国家，梅根·凯利。'

I don't he was in this he did this interview, and he's like, I, you know, I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but The United States has been going into other countries and Megyn Kelly.

梅根·凯利。

Megyn Kelly.

他说：我不想伤害你的感情，但美国长期以来一直在其他国家干涉并搞砸选举。

He's like, I don't wanna hurt your feelings, but The United States has been going and fucking up elections in other countries for a very long time.

不过，你谈到的同情心这个问题，确实有道理。

Here's the problem though with the compassion thing you're talking about Yes.

但我认识的人里，没人认识投票给特朗普的人。

Is that I don't know anyone who knows anyone who voted for Trump.

他们不像普通人。

It's not like they're like normal people.

我的意思是，也许我完全与世隔绝了，但我认识的上千人里，一个投票给他的人都不认识。

I mean, maybe I'm like totally isolated, but I don't know one person out of a thousand people that I know who voted for him.

所以，这些人，你得创建一个假账号才能找到他们？

So these people, you have to like create a fake account to even find out who they are?

哦，他们可多了。

Oh, there's a lot of them.

你只是被困在信息茧房里了。

You're just in the filter bubble.

并不是说他们不存在。

It's not it's not that they're not out there.

他们也在信息茧房里。

You're they're in the filter bubble too.

科技正在引发许多这些问题，因为它把我们分成了不同的群体、不同的阵营。

Technology is causing a lot of these problems because it separated us into different teams, into different camps.

当我们身处这些阵营时，一些强势人物就会出现，煽动愤怒、仇恨的情绪。

And when we're in those camps, certain strong personalities appear and like, kinda like fan the flames of rage and anger and hate.

所以你可以做几件不同的事情。

So what you do, there's there's a few different things you can do.

第一，为了好玩，每个人都试试，但不是为了加剧混乱。

One, create just for fun, everyone do this, not to add to the chaos.

创建一个代表左翼立场的账号。

Create an account that represents a leftist.

你在个人资料里放一张安全别针的照片，或者放一张类似雪花的照片。

And what you do there is put a picture of in your profile, put a picture of a safety pin or put a picture of like

一朵雪花？

A snowflake?

一朵雪花，或者在你的名字周围加上星号作为讽刺，或者放一张彩虹旗的照片。

A a snowflake or, like, a put asterisk around your name ironically or put a picture of, like, a rainbow flag.

放一张希拉里的照片，或者在横幅里放一些彩虹旗、同性恋游行之类的图片。

Have, like or a picture of Hillary or, like, you know, whatever in the banner, like, rainbow flags, gay march.

所以机器人能识别图片。

So the bots can read pictures.

嗯，不完全是。

So well, no.

我的意思是，你可以作为一个左翼人士，拥有一个左翼账号和一个右翼账号。

The I'm saying so that you can then, as a left wing person, have a left wing account and a right wing account.

然后作为左翼人士，以那个身份进入右翼阵营，与他们交流，看看他们如何对待你。

And then as a left wing person, go into the right and talk to them as that person and see how they treat you.

他们会攻击你。

They'll attack you.

他们会叫你混蛋。

They'll call you a cock.

他们会叫你傻瓜。

They'll call you an idiot.

你是个精英。

You're an elitist.

用你的右翼账号进入左翼阵营，或者用你的左翼账号进入右翼阵营，随便对他们说什么，然后看他们怎么回应你。

Go into the right with your go into the left with your right account and just say anything to them and watch what they say to you.

他们会说你是个傻瓜。

They'll say you're an idiot.

经典的喇叭。

Classic trumpet.

典型的投了特朗普的傻瓜。

Classic idiot who voted for Trump.

就这样了。

There we go.

又一个拼写错误的白人男性。

Another white male who can't spell.

是你，不是你的。

It's you're not your.

你知道，这种垃圾。

You know, that kind of shit.

然后你突然意识到，天哪。

And then you realize like, oh my god.

我们彼此互动的方式太糟糕了。

The way we're interacting with each other is atrocious.

是啊。

Yeah.

你也可以试试我住在酒店房间时的做法：打开福克斯新闻，来回切换，因为你知道，每天都会发生一些疯狂的事。

You can also get that what I do when I'm in a hotel room is like turn on Fox News and go back and forth and it's like because you know crazy things happen every day.

所以每天都有新闻，从不无聊。

So it's like there's never a dull news day.

总会有解雇之类的事情，没错。

There's always like a firing or Yeah.

突然间冒出个跨性别禁令之类的疯狂事来转移注意力，或者别的什么。

Something crazy like all of a sudden transgender ban to to distract or whatever it is.

所以塔克·卡尔森，有那么一周我一直在看。

So Tucker Carlson, he just there was like a week I was watching it.

他一直在谈论左翼的暴力行为。

He just kept talking about all violence on the left.

没错。

Yeah.

这种事你根本不会觉得会发生。

Which is like something that you never even think of happening at all.

但他就是不放过，一直采访人，逼迫人。

But he just would not let it go and just like interviewing people, railroading people.

你看过那个人吗？

Have you ever watched that guy?

嗯。

Yeah.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

完全看过。

Totally.

我看过塔克·卡尔森。

I've watched Tucker Carlson.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

他他

He's he's

但人们一定相信了。

But then people must believe it.

我确信左右两派都在做某些事、说某些话，也许有些东西我也不太清楚。

And I'm sure that the right or the left is doing things, saying things that maybe are I don't know though.

你得看看他刚对撒旦教会的卢西安·格里夫斯做的采访。

You gotta see the interview he just did with Lucian Greaves from the Satanic Temple.

他采访了他？

He did an interview with him?

天啊。

Oh, god.

塔克·卡尔森？

Tucker Carlson?

哦，而且我认为他没有充分研究卢西安·格里夫斯，或者没认出来。

Oh, and he was I think he didn't research Lucian Greaves enough or something to recognize it.

我觉得卢西安·格里夫斯毕业于常春藤盟校。

Like, I I think Lucian Greaves has, an Ivy League.

他上过哈佛之类的学校。

He went to Harvard or something.

他非常，

He's very,

非常聪明。

very smart.

很棒。

Great.

非常聪明。

Very smart.

非常聪明。

Very smart.

而且，我觉得塔克·卡尔森原本以为，天啊，会遇到某种，我不知道，

And, like, Tucker Carlson, I think, was expecting, I don't know, man, some kinda, like, I don't

知道。

know.

哥特？

Goth?

哥特族吸食合成大麻之类的，结果却碰上了一个极其敏锐的活动家、撒旦教徒，把他彻底击败了。

Goth on synthetic marijuana or something, and he ends up with this, like, really, really astute activist, satanist, and he just got decimated by him.

看这场对决简直太精彩了，卡尔森明明装出一副困惑的样子，但卢西安·格里夫斯说的每一句话都完全是逻辑严密的。

And it was amazing to watch it go down, and Carlson had this ridiculous he was feigning this look of confusion even though everything that Lucian Greaves was saying was just pure logic.

纯粹又无可辩驳的完美逻辑。

Just pure and arguable perfect logic.

看这一切真是太美了。

It was beautiful to watch.

这太美了，因为基本上你看到的是一个可能真的有点邪恶的人在扮演角色，而对面那个人却不是在演戏，他就是一个真正的撒旦教徒，你知道吗？

And it was beautiful to watch because basically you have like somebody playing a character who maybe really is kinda evil talking to somebody who's not playing a character who who, like, is a satanist, you know?

看着这两者碰撞在一起，真是有趣。

And it was interesting to watch these two things smashing against each other.

但每当你看到塔克·卡尔森或任何其他人煽动分裂时。

But anytime you have Tucker Carlson or whoever it is fanning the flames of division.

嗯。

Mhmm.

亚历克斯·琼斯。

Alex Jones.

对。

Yeah.

亚历克斯·琼斯或者其他人。

Alex Jones or whoever.

如果你想做点革命性的事，就应该试着减少这些媒体人和娱乐明星制造的分裂，他们只是靠煽动麻烦来出名。

It's like you wanna do something revolutionary, start trying to reduce the divisions that are being created by these pundits and entertainers who are just, like, getting famous from their ability to stir up trouble.

我的天，我其实也和别人一样有这种毛病。

I mean, god, I've I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else.

但如果你认真想想，如果你真想搅乱这个体制，办法根本不是制造分裂。

But when you think about it, if you really wanted to fuck with the state, the way to do it would not be to create division.

应该是建立联系、建立纽带，找到我们彼此相连的地方，让我们成为一个民族、一个民主社会。

It would be to create links, connection, find where we're all connected so we become a people, a democracy.

这就是这个想法。

That's the idea.

别让他们操控我们，别被迷惑，以为你在互联网上看到的观点代表了大多数人的意见。

Don't let them fuck with us because and don't get confused and think that what the opinions you're seeing on the Internet represent the majority.

实际上，你看到的只是最吵闹的那些人的观点，你知道的，这并不代表所有人。

Really, what you're seeing is the opinions of the loudest, you know, and it's not everyone.

这就是正在发生的事情。

That's that's what's going on.

但我认为，这背后其实有一场有意识的运动，旨在制造分裂的假象，或者寻找现有的分歧并加以放大，而这就是一种武器。

But I think there's like an actual active campaign to produce the illusion of division or to to find where there is division and make it more, and that's a weapon.

如果你想削弱一个国家，这就是你要做的：渗透他们的互联网，制造并煽动内战的火焰。

That's what you'd wanna do if you wanted to weaken a country, is you'd infiltrate their Internet and you would create the you would you would you would fan the flames of, civil war.

让你的国家陷入内战，这就是搞垮一个国家的方法。

That's how you'd fuck a country up is to create a civil war.

如果你有一个能引发内战的武器，天啊。

If you had a weapon that could cause a civil war, wow.

这比核弹厉害多了。

That's way better than a nuclear bomb.

我们最好搞些枪。

We better get some guns.

嗯，你确实应该有枪。

Well, you should have guns.

任何人都应该有枪。

Anyone should have guns.

开枪太爽了。

Guns are a blast.

你确实应该有。

You should.

我去过一家枪店，开枪时简直太可怕了。

I went to the gun some gun place, and it was so horrifying to shoot.

我以前从来没开过枪。

And I'd never shot before.

那个人直接把枪递给了我。

The guy just gave it to me.

他只是说：‘嗯。’

And he's like, yeah.

他提醒我别把手指放在那里，否则会很糟糕。

Just make sure you don't put your finger there, so it'll be really bad.

我当时说：‘等等。’

And I'm like, wait.

等等。

Wait.

你能给我解释一下吗？

Can explain to me?

然后我走进房间，发现有个家伙正拿着机枪疯狂扫射，而那个有点像监护人的主要 guy 说：‘别连发。’

And then I walk into the room and they're just like some guy with a machine gun is just like rapid firing and the guy the the the main guy who's kind of like the chaperone dude, he's like, no rapid fire.

那个人一直不停地连发，哦，当我到那儿时，他说因为你得先选好你的

And the guy just keeps rapid firing and oh, when I got there, he was like because you have to pick out what your

是的。

Yes.

目标。

Target is.

我当时说，你们有特朗普的靶子吗？

And I was like, do you have any Trump?

他说，没有。

He was like, no.

但我这里有希拉里·克林顿的。

But I got some Hillary Clinton.

这在洛杉矶是这样的。

It's like in LA.

摩西说，别在这儿开玩笑了。

And Moshe's like, just don't don't do jokes here.