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你好，欢迎收听《Eat Your Crust》播客。
Hello, welcome to Eat Your Crustpodcast.
我是Jisoo。
I'm Jisoo.
我是Crystal。
I'm Crystal.
我是Camille。
And I'm Camille.
今天的嘉宾是一位来自湾区的移民，也就是Koai Leonard的邻居。
Today's guest is a Bay Area transplant, AKA neighbor of koai Leonard.
嘿，伙计。
Hey yo.
去吧，Mo Val。
Go Mo Val.
她是个音乐爱好者。
She's a music enthusiast.
她也是加州大学圣地亚哥分校的校友。
She's a fellow UCSD alum.
而且是个派对达人。
And a life of the party.
天啊。
Oh, god.
别有压力。
No pressure.
哦，天哪。
Oh, boy.
欢迎你，卡米勒。
Welcome, Camille.
是的。
Yeah.
谢谢你们邀请我，各位。
Thanks for having me, y'all.
大家最近怎么样？
What's up, everybody?
我是卡米勒。
I'm Camille.
我在大学认识了克里斯特尔，通过克里斯特尔认识了Jisoo。
Know Crystal from college and met Jisoo through Crystal.
在我们深入讨论之前，我们想简单感谢一下亚历克斯，他这周早些时候给我们发了一封邮件。
Before we dive into things, we just wanted to give a quick shout out to Alex who sent us an email earlier this week.
他写了一封非常温暖的邮件，听到他和朋友们对我们播客及各种话题产生如此强烈的共鸣，我们很感动。
He wrote a really sweet email, it was touching to hear how much him and his friends resonated with the podcast and our various topics.
谢谢你的支持。
So thanks for that.
哇哦。
Whoo.
正如你们所知，我们不久前刚毕业，现在还在努力适应职场生活。
So as you all know, we graduated not too long ago, and we're all still kind of finding our footing in the professional world.
今天，我们其实想聊一聊职业和职场里的另一个侧面。
Today, we actually wanted to talk about a different side of careers and professionalism.
我觉得很多人
I think a lot
都会在创造力上遇到瓶颈，而且很少会主动去思考这方面的问题。
of people maybe struggle with and don't think about as much creativity.
不管是要在本职工作中挖掘创造力，还是要寻找其他能发挥创造力的渠道。
So whether it's finding creativity in your career or if it's finding other outlets of creativity.
而我们还想聊聊和这件事相关的另一个话题，那就是“激情项目”这个概念。
And another aspect of that that we wanted to talk about was the concept of passion projects.
在讨论这个话题的时候，我们都觉得它算是个比较新的概念。
As we were talking about it, we felt like it was a relatively new concept.
毕竟以前的人不就是说有兴趣爱好吗，对吧？
I mean, people used to just have hobbies, right?
或者说副业项目。
Or side projects.
但现在这已经成了一个完整的概念：你得对某个领域充满热忱，而且拥有一个“热忱项目”就意味着你必须对它进行更深入的研究。
And then now it's become a whole concept to be really passionate about some sort of field and having a passionate project means you have to go more in-depth into it.
对，我觉得关于深入钻研热忱项目有一个误解：你不一定非要成为你正在做的这个热忱项目或者副业项目的专业人士或专家。
Yeah, I think misconception with the idea of going in-depth into a passion project is the fact that you don't necessarily have to be a professional or an expert at this this passion project or side project thing that you're doing.
如果陷入这种误区，就很容易在这个领域里产生冒名顶替综合征。
And in that case, it becomes this kind of, like, impostor syndrome in the space.
嗯。
Mhmm.
就我个人来说，当我开始更多发掘自己的创意面时，我一开始甚至根本不想提这件事，因为我是从小练习架子鼓长大的。
I know personally, like, when I started happening more into my creative side, I never even wanted to really talk about it because so I I grew up playing the drums.
哦。
Oh.
但后来我就慢慢变得生疏了。
And I got very rusty over time.
之后我重新捡了起来，花了更多时间练习，就单纯为了好玩做自己喜欢的事。
And then I got back into it and spent more times practicing, doing my thing just for fun.
但每当有人提起，我都会说，我只是随便玩玩。
But whenever someone would bring it up, I'd be like, yeah, I dabble in it.
不过，关于自卑情结这个想法，我认为人们需要认识到它根本不该存在。
It's whatever though, like but, yeah, the idea of impostor syndrome, I think, is one thing that people need to recognize should not exist.
你应该做某件事，是因为你喜欢做它。
You should do something because you enjoy doing it.
你不必非得是最优秀的。
You don't have to be the best.
没错。
Right.
但是如果
But if
它让你快乐，那就去追求吧。
it makes you happy, then then go for it.
是的。
Yeah.
很多时候，大家好像觉得你得达到接近专业的水平，才能说自己把某件事当爱好，这完全就违背了初衷。
A lot of times, it feels like you have to be a almost professional level to even say that you do something as a passion, which, like, completely just kinda it defeats this purpose.
没错。
Right.
就是这个理。
Exactly.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得光是这个叫法就把入行门槛拉高了好多，打个比方说，要是把它当成一个爱好就完全不一样。
I think even just, like, the naming of it makes the barrier of entry so much higher than like, if you have a hobby, for example.
毕竟要是当爱好的话，想要上手并投入进去实在太简单了。
Because it's so easy to pick up stuff and get into it.
但就像卡米尔说的那样，要是把它称作一个“激情项目”，这事就难多了，因为旁人会对你有更高的期待。
But, yeah, like Camille said, talking about it as a passion project is a lot harder because then people will expect more from it.
对。
Yeah.
是的
Yeah.
我认为，从根本上说，人们应该认识到，热情项目是为了让人追求自己的热情。
I think at its foundation, people should should recognize the idea that a passion project is meant for a person to pursue their own passion.
嗯
Mhmm.
而不是因为他们想把它展示给世界，说：嘿，这是我的热情。
Not because they wanna put it out into the world and be like, yo, this is my passion.
这是我擅长的。
This is what I'm good at.
更多的是因为它是你身份的一部分，能带给你快乐。
More so just because it's a part of who you are and what makes you happy.
对
Right.
是的
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你有没有什么热情所在，却因为觉得自己不够好而不敢谈论？
Do you have any passions that you've been scared to talk about just because you didn't feel like you're good enough?
是的。
Yeah.
我真的很喜欢美妆和化妆。
I so I really like beauty and makeup.
我经常关注潮流。
I follow trends a lot.
我会关注所有新品发布。
I follow releases and everything.
但当我给自己化妆时，我其实并不擅长。
But I guess when I put makeup on myself, I'm not the best at it.
我只是随便涂点适合我脸型的。
I just do whatever fits my face.
但从技巧上来说，我觉得我的技术并不是最好的。
But skill wise, I think, you know, my technical skills aren't the best.
嗯。
Mhmm.
关于美妆圈的一件有趣的事是，有很多新兴的化妆师在Instagram上发布他们的照片，分享他们的热情。
And something that's interesting about the beauty world is there's so many budding makeup artists who post their pictures on Instagram and, you know, I guess share their passion through social media.
但因为我并不太习惯拍下自己的妆容并发布出来，所以我感觉自己对美妆的投入不如其他人。
But since I'm not really comfortable about taking pictures of my makeup looks and posting it, I feel like I'm less into beauty than other people.
哦，我明白了。
Oh, I see.
所以有点是的。
So it's kinda yeah.
这有点奇怪。
It's kinda weird.
就像因为我不愿意分享，所以我感觉自己没那么热衷于它，是的。
It's like since I'm not since I'm not ready to share it, I feel like I'm not as into it Yeah.
当我花大量时间研究和思考它的时候。
When I spend a lot of time researching and thinking about it.
姐妹，我和你想法一样。
Girl, I'm on the same page as you.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
因为关于这个问题，我曾经涉足过一些领域，因为我主修的是时尚方向。
Because on with that question, one thing that I I dabble in because I was in the fashion track.
是的。
Yeah.
制作音乐。
Production, producing music.
我和克莉丝汀在加州大学圣地亚哥分校一起辅修音乐。
Me and Crystal, we minored in music together at UCSD.
我们就是那些坐在后排的书呆子，
And we were those dweebs in the back that
根本不知道自己在干嘛。
didn't know what the fuck we were doing.
但我们还是设法钻了系统的空子，成功混进了这门课。
But we managed to finesse the system and get into the class somehow.
所以，我们就是后排那两个书呆子，但结果还不错。
So we were those two dweebs in the back, but it worked.
直到今天，我依然喜欢制作音乐。
To this day, like, I still like to produce music.
我不敢说自己是专家，但这确实是我的热情所在。
I wouldn't say I'm an expert but it is one of my passions.
但总是有人问我，会不会开一个SoundCloud账号，因为说实话，我现在只在我的私密Instagram上发布音乐。
But all the time, I get questions as to whether or not I'm gonna start a SoundCloud because right now, like, to be honest, I only release my music on my finsta.
我觉得，目前我并不想把音乐变成另一个完全独立的自我形象，但这并不意味着我只因为喜欢就该花时间做音乐。
And I think, as of now, I'm not trying to make it into a whole another persona of me, but it doesn't mean that I shouldn't put time into making music just because I enjoy doing it.
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我认为，随着社交媒体的兴起，人们总是感到必须分享的压力。
I think, like, with the rise of social media, there's this constant pressure to have to share.
如果你不分享，那你的热情还算是真的吗？
And if you don't share, then you're like, is it even your passion?
你知道，比如，你只是对。
You know, like, are you just Right.
皮克斯，那事儿没成。
Pixar, it didn't happen.
但是，
But,
但你仍然在幕后继续努力。
like, you're still working on it behind the scenes.
你仍然在培养这些能力。
Like, you're still developing these abilities.
这几乎像是你在否定自己。
It's almost like you're invalidating yourself.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
就像，嗯，这算不上我的热情，因为我并不擅长。
It's like, well, it's not really my passion because I'm not good at it.
是的。
Yeah.
但那不是真的。
But that's not true.
过去，这仅仅被称为爱好，我想人们还是会问，你的爱好是什么？
In the past, it's just called a hobby and we don't I guess people still will ask like, what's your hobby?
嗯。
Mhmm.
但总有一种潜在的意图，那就是：你的热情是什么？
But there's always that kind of underlying intention of like, what's your passion?
对。
Right.
比如，你特别热衷于什么？
Like, what are you super into?
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
那你呢，Crystal？
What about you, Crystal?
你有什么热爱的项目吗？
Do you have any passion projects?
这个。
This.
是的。
Yes.
我超爱它。
I love it.
对。
Yeah.
这是一项热爱的项目。
This is a passion project.
我当时就想，管他呢。
And I was just like, fuck it.
我就要去做这件事。
I'm just gonna do it.
我认为我有这个技能、能力和时间来做这件事。
I think I have the skill and the capability and the time to do this.
所以我就要出去买齐所有这些东西，把它们都组装起来，因为如果我光坐着不动，那它就不会发生，对吧？
So I'm just gonna go out there, buy all this shit, and put it all together because if I sit around, then it won't, right?
我觉得幸运的是，我很少有冒名顶替综合症，因为我不会让自己过多地去想它。
I think, luckily, I don't face too much imposter syndrome because I don't let myself think about it too much.
对于这个播客，我就想，我觉得我能做成。
For this podcast, it was just like, I think I can do it.
然后我就去做了。
And then I just did it.
太棒了。
That's sick.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
但我认为确实有一些事情，我会把它们搁置一旁。
But I think there are definitely some things where I put it to the side.
比如，我年轻时特别喜欢的一件事是摄影。
So for example, like, one thing that I really enjoyed when I was younger is photography.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
我从来没打算让摄影成为我的专业事业。
And I never really intended for it to be something very professional for me.
但有时候人们看到我的设备，虽然算好一点，但也不是特别昂贵。
But then sometimes people will see my gear, which is slightly nicer, but it's not, like, super expansive.
但有时候人们看到后会说，哇，你肯定厉害得不行。
But sometimes people will see it and they'll be like, oh, so you're, like, hella good.
对吧？
Right?
我就说，不是的。
And I'm like, no.
不是的。
No.
我其实没怎么拍照片。
I don't really take photos that much.
我只是知道。
I just know.
是的。
Yeah.
那种否定感就来了，比如：哦，不。
It's just like the invalidation comes in where it's like, oh, no.
我能做，但其实不算真的能。
I can do it but not really.
你几乎想先贬低自己，这样别人就不会对你有太高期待，然后更严厉地评判你。
You almost wanna put yourself down first so that people don't have this high expectation of you and then, you know, judge you more harshly,
我想是吧。
I guess.
是的。
Yeah.
我有一个关于热情项目的理论。
So I have this theory about passion projects.
嗯。
Mhmm.
由于这是一个相对较新的概念，我觉得现在许多专业人士可能都从事着某种缺乏自主性的公司工作，嗯。
Since it is a relatively new concept, I feel like maybe now a lot of professionals are, you know, in some sort of corporate job where there's less autonomy Mhmm.
也许热情项目的概念正是源于人们在工作中感到不够满足。
Maybe the concept of passion projects is born because people feel less fulfilled at work.
就像你在工作中并没有真正发挥你的热情，因此你需要在业余时间深入投入某种热情，对吧。
Like, you're not really channeling your passion at work, so therefore, you need to go dive deep into some sort of passion on the side, like Right.
在周末或下班后，只是为了让你觉得自己多了一点掌控感？
On weekends or after work, just so you feel like you have a little bit more control?
嗯。
Mhmm.
我觉得这是一种火花。
I think it's a it's it's a spark.
它激发了那种创意出口。
It sparks that kind of creative outlet.
是的。
Yeah.
不过我不认为这是根本原因。
I don't think it's the root of it, though.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这说得通吗？
Does that make sense?
对。
Yeah.
我能理解。
I can see that.
是的。
Yeah.
因为我不太会说我对自己的热情所在充满热情，比如工作，我在那里缺乏自主性。
Because I wouldn't say I'm passionate for what I'm passionate for because, like, work, I I have a lack of autonomy there.
但我可以说，我希望在工作之外的时间，用一些我真正热爱的事情来充实自己。
But I can say that I do want to fill the time outside of work with something that I'm passionate for.
比如，让生活更有意义。
Like, make it more meaningful.
对。
Right.
而且，我觉得通过我们的交流，我们已经对自己热爱的事物有了一些定义。
Also, I think because from us speaking, we have already defined our passions a little bit for ourselves.
我想，这个理论可能对我们这些人不太适用，我明白了。
I guess that theory might not apply as much just to us I see.
因为我们就已经差不多定义清楚了。
Because, like, of how we've already kind of defined it.
但我认为很多人，比如刚进入学校的学生，或者年纪稍轻的人，甚至那些一直过着朝九晚五生活的人，这个观点对他们来说很可能非常成立。
But I think a lot of people maybe, like, going into school or who are still slightly younger or maybe even older people who've just, like, only known the nine to five life, it probably is very true for them.
你的话引出了一个很好的观点。
What you say brings up, like, a good point.
如果你的激情项目是在开始工作之后才出现的，那么我的理论可能就更成立。
If your passion project started after you started working, then maybe it's more likely that my theory is true.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但如果你从小就拥有这些热情，那么这个理论可能就不成立了。
But if it's from when you were younger and you had, you know, you had these passions growing up, then it's probably not true.
所以可以说是各占一半。
So it's like half half.
是的。
Yeah.
是的
Yeah.
但这是个非常好的观点。
But that's a really good point.
我认为这对很多人来说都是成立的。
I think it holds true for a lot of people.
你们是什么时候第一次发现自己的当前热情的？
So when did you guys first discover your current passions?
哦，好的。
Oh, okay.
我觉得我上高中时就开始接触更多创意类工作了。
I think I actually started looking into more creative work when I was in high school.
嗯。
Mhmm.
七年级时有一天，我妈妈下班回家，对我说：‘水晶，我买了张Adobe Photoshop的光盘。’
There was this one day in seventh grade, my mom came home from work and she was like, hey, Crystal, I have this CD of Adobe Photoshop.
而且那还是特别老的版本。
And it was, like, really old.
Adobe Photoshop。
Adobe Photoshop.
光盘？
CD?
是的。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
那时候是Adobe Photoshop 7.0版。
It was, like, Adobe Photoshop seven point o.
这玩意儿太老了。
Like, this shit is so old.
那时候它还是灰色的，看起来像什么来着？
It was, like, when it was gray and it looked like what was it?
Windows 95。
Windows 95.
但没错，她把它带过来给了我。
But, yeah, she brought it over and she gave it to me.
所以我只是下载了它，结果运行得特别慢。
So I just downloaded it, and it was hella slow.
它很难使用，但我去网上查了相关资料。
It was very difficult to use, but I googled about it.
我了解了它，然后这激发了我的兴趣。
I learned about it, and then that kind of sparked it.
而且当时我身边也有很多创意人士，至少我的朋友们都是。
And then I was also surrounded by a lot of creatives, at least, like, my friends.
嗯。
Mhmm.
他们激励我去追求这类创意事业。
And they kind of inspired me to go after these sort of creative endeavors.
我觉得你把这种热情转化为职业真的很酷。
I think it's cool that you basically channeled this passion and turned it into a career.
一开始我对此还挺不确定的。
I was pretty unsure of it in the beginning.
我不知道这能成为一份职业。
I didn't know it could be a career.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这正是它的美妙之处，你不觉得吗？
That's the beauty of it, don't know?
直到上大学我才明白，因为我以为这会太不稳定。
I didn't know until college because I thought it would be so unstable.
就像艺术一样，对吧？
It's like art, right?
所以我不能做这个。
So I can't do it.
但后来，认识了更多人之后，是的。
But then later on, after meeting more people Mhmm.
像我这样的人，让我意识到我可以把它当作职业。
Like me, it helped me realize that I can make it a career.
对。
Right.
所以在我看来，我现在正在认真考虑这件事，因为回想起中学时，我曾在一个摇滚乐队里。
So I guess in my case, I'm, like, really thinking about it now because so context, back when I was in middle school, I was in a a rock band.
乐队叫Wow。
It was called Wow.
乐队叫Eternal Horizon。
It was called Eternal Horizon.
天哪。
Oh my god.
是的，老兄。
Yeah, man.
我喜欢，我太爱这个了。
I like I love that.
我妹妹想出来的。
My sister thought of it.
她弹吉他、打鼓，我们的朋友负责贝斯。
She played guitar, played drums, and our homies was on bass.
还有一个主唱。
And there was a singer.
我们真的会在车库里演出。
We would literally perform in the garage.
我们可能去过几个酷炫的场地，比如在我们当地的教堂演出。
We probably had a few cool venues, you know, performed at our local church.
哇哦。
Wow.
哇哦。
Wow.
大声播放Paramore的歌。
Blasting Paramore.
没什么大不了的。
No biggie.
但很有趣的是，我拿起鼓是因为我从小就精力旺盛，坐立不安，我想成为一个酷酷的鼓手。
But it's funny because I picked up the drums because I was I still am super energetic bouncing off the walls and I wanted to be, like, a badass drummer.
所以我后来就学了鼓。
So so picked that up.
我多年来一直都在打鼓。
I played it, like, throughout the years.
但上了大学后，我就想，好吧，得认真起来了。
But then once college kicked in, that's when I was, like, okay, gotta get my shit together.
比如实习。
Like, internships.
得想办法先踏进门槛。
Gotta get, like, my foot in the door.
我要成为一名女商人。
Gonna be a businesswoman.
干吧。
Let's get it.
而且，说实话，我做得还不错。
And, I mean, I did pretty well.
我做了大量的实习，为了这些工作到处旅行，现在回想起来真的很庆幸，但大概在大三那年，我到了一个极限——几乎睡不着觉，因为被学业、实习和兼职压得喘不过气，我得赚钱在圣地亚哥生活。
I had a shit ton of internships, traveled around a lot for these roles and really glad I did but I hit this point probably around my junior year where I just like was hardly sleeping because I was so consumed by school and my internships and also work because I wanted to afford living in San Diego.
所以，是的。
So, yeah.
有那么一段时间，我觉得我得做点不一样的事。
There was this point where I was like, I gotta do something different.
得换个方式了。
Gotta switch it up.
于是，我和我的闺蜜艾琳在校园里一起创办了一个广播节目。
So that was when me and my home girl, Aileen, we started a radio show at on our campus.
这太简单了。
And it was so simple.
我们只是聊聊自己喜欢的音乐。
We just would talk about music that we liked.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我和她的音乐品味很相似。
And me and her have similar taste.
她更偏向舒缓一点的风格。
She's a little more on the chill side.
我喜欢劲爆的歌，但两者结合得不错，
I like my bangers but it was a nice mix,
你知道的？
you know?
这让我重新有了空间，慢慢重新回到音乐世界，而之前随着时间推移，我已经渐渐放下了它。
And that just gave me a lot of space to kind of open my mind back into this music realm that I had kind of let go of as time progressed.
通过做这些，我重新回到了打鼓。
From doing that, it led to me getting back into the drums.
这让我选修了音乐辅修。
It led to me picking up a music minor.
这让我接触到了音乐制作。
It led to me tapping into production.
然后我开了一个时尚Instagram账号，我的意思是，我现在就穿着一件T恤。
And then I started a fashion Instagram, which I I mean okay, I'm just wearing a t shirt right now.
但它
But but it
还有短裤。
And shorts.
是的。
Yeah.
她穿着裤子。
She's wearing pants.
是的。
Yeah.
但这很有趣，因为我开始更加开放和坦诚地展现我创意的一面。
But it it's just funny because I started being a lot more open and vulnerable with this creative side of me.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我并没有真正打算把它发展成什么大事，或者变成某种副业，只是因为这是我喜欢在九到五的日常工作之外消磨时间的方式，无论是在大学时期，甚至到今天也是如此。
Not really with any intention of making it into anything huge or making it into some kind of side hustle, but just because it's it's how I like to occupy my time outside of, you know, the nine to five grind, whether it's in college or even to this day.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以我想，这某种程度上是一种演变。
So I guess that it was kind of an evolution
对我而言。
for me.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但我真的很喜欢你如何在学校里重新探索了你过去的热情？
But I really like how you re explored your old passion through school?
因为我觉得把某件事作为辅修，有点像一个兴趣项目。
Because I think picking up something as a minor is kind of like a passion project.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
对于
For
当然。
sure.
我有点同意。
I kinda agree.
这实际上引出了一个有趣的观点。
So that actually brings up an interesting point.
我知道有时候听别人谈论兴趣项目或创造力会很难，因为你总是把它定义为某种看起来非常艺术化的东西。
I know sometimes it's hard to listen about people talking about passion projects or creativity because you always define it as maybe something that seems very artsy.
对吧？
Right?
我知道我稍微更偏向于那种所谓的艺术型。
And I know that I am a little more on what would be considered, like, artsy.
然后卡米勒做音乐，这也非常艺术。
And then Camille does music, which is also very, like, artsy.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Right.
然后有时候，比如吉苏会跟我说：天啊，水晶，我没有任何热情。
And then sometimes, like, Jisoo will say to me, she'll be like, oh my god, Crystal, I don't have any passions.
我会说：等等。
And I'm like, wait.
我觉得这有点像是冒名顶替综合症在作祟。
Like, what I you guess it's like kind of that imposter syndrome thing kicking in.
不，完全对。
No, totally.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
因为Jisoo身上有很多不一定算艺术类，但依然充满热情的事情。
Because there's a lot of not necessarily artsy things, but it's still very, like, passionate coming from Jisoo.
举个例子，因为你提到那些小事。
So one example because you said the minor thing.
举个例子，Jisoo特别喜欢学习。
So one example is Jisoo loves to learn.
比如，只要她对某件事感兴趣，就会毫不犹豫地去报课，花时间去学习。
Like, if she's interested in something, she won't hesitate to, like, take a class on it, spend the time to learn it.
她曾经对数据组织特别着迷，比如SQL之类的东西。
She was really into data organizations, like SQL kind of stuff.
所以她就直接报了课去学，真的学会了。
And so she just, like, took classes on it, and she learned it.
天啊。
Damn.
这还挺有创意的。
That's, like, kind of creative.
对吧？
Right?
我的天。
Holy shit.
你可以认为这是一种创意，比如你创造性地思考如何组织信息，把它转化成一个可展示的数据或信息作品，对吧？
Like, you can think of it being creative, like, you're creatively figuring out how to organize information and like translating it into a presentable piece of data or like information, right?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得当人们说你在做热情项目时，往往会给它归入一些大的类别。
I think that's the thing about saying that you have a passion project is a lot of the times people put it into these big categories.
比如有一个类别叫艺术，就是你刚才提到的艺术领域。
Like there's the category of art, like the art sphere that you were talking about.
然后我觉得还有另一个很大的类别，那就是健身。
And then I think there's another big one, it's like working out.
是的。
Oh yeah.
像攀岩这种运动在湾区变得非常流行，人们会把所有时间都投入到提升自己的体能上。
So stuff like rock climbing has become really big in the Bay Area and you just like focus all your time into developing your physical abilities.
对我来说，我从未涉足过这两个领域。
For me, I've never been in either sphere.
所以，就像你说的，我一直觉得自己不够有创意。
So I, yeah, like you said, I always felt like I wasn't super creative.
但关于大学辅修作为兴趣项目的观点是，我主修社会学和经济学，但我发现自己的技术能力并没有得到足够挑战。
But the point about having a minor in college being a passion project is, so I majored in sociology and economics, but I found that my technical side wasn't really being challenged enough.
于是我选修了计算机科学作为辅修，这最终彻底改变了我的整个职业道路。
So I picked up computer science as a minor and that really ended up changing my whole career path.
我在工作中所从事的许多事情，比如我作为分析师的职责，其实也是在延续我对计算机科学的热情。
And a lot of the things that I pursue at work itself, like in my analyst role, it's also channeling that passion of computer science.
我不知道，这挺有意思的，因为我有很多工程师朋友，他们在计算机科学方面比我强得多。
I don't know, it's kind of interesting because I have a lot of engineer friends, and they're so much, you know, better than me at computer science.
所以我跟人聊起这个时会有点不好意思，你知道吧？
So I feel shy talking about it, you know?
不。
No.
我的意思，这就是典型的冒名顶替综合症。
I mean, it's like that impostor syndrome.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
For sure.
但在目前的职位上，以及我过去作为学生助理的工作中，我确实做过网络爬虫，来自动化我的工作流程。
But in this position and in my past roles as a student worker in school, I did web scraping to kind of automate the processes for my job functions.
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哇。
Wow.
等等。
Wait.
这说得通吗？
Did that make any sense?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
说得通。
Did.
我只是在随便玩玩
I'm just, like, messing
呢。
up.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我想，即使我做的工作并不一定是工程类的，嗯。
So I guess even if the work I was doing was not necessarily engineering Mhmm.
我仍然在一定程度上巩固了我的Python技能，以及通过计算机科学辅修所获得的分析能力，以确保我始终在
I was still kind of brushing up on my Python skills and more of, like, the analytical skills that I picked up through my computer science minor just to make sure that I was always
学习新东西或做一些有挑战性的事情。
learning something or doing something challenging.
是的。
Yeah.
比如，你在与工作不直接相关的事情上找到了热情，但同时也找到了方法将它融入到工作中。
Like, found your passion in something that's not directly related to your job, but you also found ways to, like, mix it in with your job too.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我想这表明，尤其是大学时期，是探索自我的绝佳时机。
And I guess that goes to show, like, college especially is such a good time to just explore.
嗯。
Mhmm.
不仅是辅修专业，还包括寻找那些从事你感兴趣事物的人群。
Not only minors, but also finding communities of people that are doing something you're interested in.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
回到我参与的广播节目，和那群人相处真的让我看到了一个前所未有的全新世界。
Going back to the radio show I was a part of, just hanging out with that kind of community of people just really opened my eyes to a whole another world I've never seen.
天啊，那真是太戏剧化了。
Oh my god, was so dramatic.
但那是因为我当时太专注于职业和商业，所以这一切都特别有趣，我想，这和今天的情况也是一样的。
But but it was because I was so caught up in the professional business It just was very interesting and the same, I would say, relays to to today.
比如在湾区，有非常多不同的社群，从科技领域一直到自由职业艺术家。
Like, here in the Bay Area, there's so many different kind of communities, whether it's tech all the way down to these freelance artists.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
每个人都有自己在做的事情。
Everyone has their own kind of thing that they're taking on.
只要让自己多接触，迈出第一步去学习，这至少是最关键的部分。
And just exposing yourself and taking that first step towards learning, at least, that's, like, the most important part.
我觉得认识新的人最酷的地方在于，你能看到人们如何在日常生活中表达创造力。
I think that's the cool part about meeting new people is you get to see how people are channeling creativity in their everyday lives.
对。
Yeah.
因为你只看到自己的世界。
Because you only see yourself.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
有时候，你知道，下班回家后，至少对我来说，我就会直接躺在沙发上，刷手机好几个小时。
And sometimes, you know, when you get home from work, at least for me, I literally just lay down on my couch and I'm scrolling through my phone for hours.
但当我跟你们这样有大量热情项目和创意追求的人聊天时，我会受到极大的启发。
But when I talk to people, you know, like you guys who have a lot of passion projects and creative pursuits on the side, I get so inspired.
是的。
Yeah.
我会想，哇，也许我应该让自己的时间更有意义一些。
I'm like, wow, maybe I should do something more meaningful with my time.
但你确实有
But you do have
有意义的事情。
meaningful stuff.
但我认为，也重要的是，不要完全填满你的空闲时间。
But I think it's also important to, like, not completely fill your free time.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
所以我觉得，留一些时间什么都不做，其实也挺好的。
So I think having some time just to, like, do nothing is also pretty nice.
嘿。
Yo.
倦怠真的是个大问题。
Burnout burnout is such a thing.
是的。
Yeah.
天啊。
God.
你们在做自己的创意项目和副业时，会感到倦怠吗？
Do you guys feel burnout with, like, your creative pursuits and hot side projects?
我有。
I have.
我曾经做过一件事，当时我想着得好好调整一下，因为我非常注重目标。
I did this thing where I was like, I gotta be better about because I'm very goal oriented.
我有固定的结构。
I have a structure.
我刚搬到湾区不久，其中一个目标就是更多地投入到制作中。
Shortly after I moved to The Bay, like, one of my goals was to get more into producing.
所以我给自己定下目标，每周制作一首节拍。
So I was like, okay, I'm a set out to make one beat a week.
还不错。
Not bad.
很简单。
Easy.
对吧？
Right?
因为你只是循环一个节拍，这样也没问题。
Because you just loop a beat, it's fine.
但几周后，我遇到了创作瓶颈，不过作为制作人，我不认为这是创意枯竭。
But I was several weeks in and I just I had writer's block but for producer, I don't creative block.
这叫什么来着？
What is it called?
我不知道。
I don't know.
是的。
Yeah.
但我确实遇到了。
But I had it.
而且它发展到完全不再有成效了。
And it got to the point where it just wasn't productive anymore.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以，是的，我确实受到了影响。
So, yeah, I definitely got hit with it.
哦，实际上，是的。
Oh, actually, yeah.
有时候我会做一点，然后就停下来不做了。
Sometimes I kind of do and then I just stop doing stuff.
或者说我干脆暂停项目一段时间，转而去玩会儿游戏。
Or I mean, like, stop doing the project for a while and I'll just, like, play games for a while.
是的。
Yeah.
今年我开始了一个计划，打算读38本书。
I started this thing this year where I'm trying to read 38 books.
去年我读了36本。
Last year, read 36.
我当时想，38本？
I was like, 38?
女孩。
Girl.
再读两本。
Two more.
你知道的，还不错。
You know, not too bad.
是的。
Yeah.
然后我每个月读五到六本书，直到三月。
And then I read, I think, like, five or six books a month until March.
四月我一本都没读，哦。
April, I read zero Oh
我的天。
my god.
五月我读了一本。
May, I read one.
哦，天啊，所以这种因目标导向而导致的倦怠感。
Oh my So it's like the whole burnout thing about being goal oriented.
到了某个阶段，它甚至不再让人感到满足了。
After a certain point, it's not even fulfilling anymore.
是的。
Yeah.
就像，你
Like, you
不能只是为了做而做。
can't just do it to do it.
然后，对。
Then Yeah.
它开始变得像一份工作。
It starts feeling like a job.
咚咚咚。
Dun dun dun.
天哪。
Yikes.
我觉得能够做自己喜欢的事，而不给它施加所有压力，是很美好的。
I think it's nice to be able to do a passion and not have all the pressure on it.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
确实如此。
That's so true.
因为那样它就变成了一项事业。
Because then it turns into a career.
但话说回来，确实有人把爱好变成了职业。
But, I mean, there are people who turn their passion into careers.
湾区的大多数人可能都在努力平衡这两者。
Most people in The Bay are, like, probably trying to balance them.
是的。
Yeah.
但确实有一群人把这变成了职业。
But there's definitely, like, a group of them who turn it into a career.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Right.
正是如此。
Exactly.
就像你之前提到的自由职业者。
Like the freelance workers that you were talking about.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
这太有趣了，因为当我刚搬到这里时，考虑到我的工作背景，我是在科技行业工作的。
It's it's so interesting because I I guess when I first moved out here because I context, I work in tech.
我是应用程序的合作伙伴经理。
I am a partner manager for apps.
所以我每天接触的很多人也都在科技行业，从事应用程序相关的工作，比如开发者等等。
So a lot of people I talk to on a day to day are people who are also in tech working in apps, whether it be developers, etcetera, etcetera.
但最近，我一直在努力拓展我的社交圈。
But lately, I've been trying to expand my circle.
我不知道，就是想多走出去，认识一些新的人。
I don't know, put myself out there and meet new people.
我遇到了很多从事自由职业或更专注于创意产业的人，比如在工作室工作，甚至像Pandora这样的大公司。
And I've been meeting a lot of people who are doing a lot of freelance work or more concentrated within creative industries as it exists, whether it be, like, at studios or even larger places like Pandora, for example.
嗯。
Mhmm.
看到有人能把热情发展到不仅因为热爱而做，还能以此为生，真的太有趣了。
And it's just so interesting to see how someone could push their passion to a point where not only are they doing it because they love doing it, but also because it's a means of Survival?
生存。
Survival.
是的。
Yeah.
让我的
Making my
生活变得
life a
有点太戏剧化了。
little too dramatic.
对。
Yeah.
我不知道。
And I don't know.
我经常问自己，我想要那样吗？
I I ask myself all the time, like, do I want that?
这就是你的目标吗？
Is that the goal for
我吗？
me?
是的。
Uh-huh.
看起来很酷。
It looks dope.
我是真的想全身心投入到音乐行业里。
Like, I would love to, you know, full on pursue something in the music industry.
但我不想让它变成我们之前说的那种感觉，像份工作，没错。
But then I just don't want it to feel like we were talking about earlier, like a job, like I Right.
必须去做，是的。
Have to do Yeah.
所以我非常敬佩那些能找到完美平衡的人。
So I have mad respect for those people who are able to find that right balance.
我想也许这就是目标。
And I guess maybe that's the goal.
我不确定。
I don't know.
刚毕业。
Just graduated.
我太迷茫了。
I'm so stuck.
是时候弄清楚了
Time to figure it
了。
out.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得这也有地域因素，因为在洛杉矶，有很多人把他们的创意追求变成了职业。
I think it's also a regional thing because in LA, there's a lot more people who turn their creative pursuits into careers.
是的。
Yeah.
比如YouTuber。
So YouTubers, for example.
对吧？
Right?
这是一个很好的例子，说明人们因为需要录制和上传内容而逐渐感到疲惫。
That's a huge example where people start to get burnt out from having to record and upload.
是的。
Yeah.
尤其是像Vlogger这样的人。
Especially people like vloggers.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
每天都要发一个视频。
It's like a video a day.
老兄，这工作量也太大了吧。
Dude, that's hella work.
天哪。
Oh my god.
而且根本没人看这些内容。
And no one sees that shit.
是的。
Yeah.
比如我就不干，医生。
Like No from me, doc.
视频剪辑要花好久时间。
Video editing takes forever.
真的太累了。
It is so tiring.
而且不仅仅是剪辑，还要想出酷炫的内容放到视频里。
Also not only editing but just coming up with cool content to put on your videos.
没错。
Exactly.
太对了。
So true.
所以是这样。
So yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
比如，你经常看到有人说：‘我要暂时退出YouTube，因为我已经精疲力尽了。’
Like, you see so many of those, oh, I'm quitting YouTube for a while because I'm burnt out, basically.
嗯。
Mhmm.
因为很多人背后其实有一支庞大的团队，只是你看不到而已。
Because a lot of them turn it into like, you don't see it, but they have a giant team behind them.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
For sure.
比如内容创作者、编辑和助手之类的。
Like, of content producers and, like, editors and assistants.
天啊。
Damn.
是的。
Yeah.
这简直就像一个
It's like a whole Like a
几乎是一个小型公司。
mini company almost.
我关注的很多美妆博主最近开始公开谈论他们的倦怠问题。
A lot of beauty YouTubers that I follow have been starting to speak openly about their burnout.
所以他们说，朋友们，我不能再每次都录同样的化妆教程和和我一起准备的视频了。
So they're like, guys, I can't keep recording the same makeup tutorial and get ready with me video every time.
他们说，这太无聊了。
They're like, this She's is so boring.
你能录一个和我一起准备的视频吗？
Can you get ready with me?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得他们被困在这种境地里了，虽然赚了很多钱。
And I feel like they're kind of stuck in this situation where they're making so much money.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你知道，他们赚得很多。
You know, they're profiting a lot.
他们去参加各种免费的品牌旅行，看起来像是理想的生活。
They're going on these free brand trips, and it's like the ideal world.
但对于他们来说，热情已经变成了一种必须去做的事情。
Except for them, their passion has become something that they need to do.
对他们来说，这已经不再那么有趣了。
And it's like not as fun for them anymore.
所以这有点令人难过。
So it's kind of sad.
这就像是在用热情赚钱的代价，但你的热情已经不再是热情了。
It's like the trade off between I'm making money from my passion, except my passion is no longer a passion anymore.
是的。
Yeah.
真吓人。
Spooky.
这确实挺难的。
It's pretty tough.
对。
Yeah.
我认为在湾区，类似的情况是那些把热情变成初创公司的人，创始人却把所有时间都花在经营这家公司上，结果它不再像最初那样是他们想要的东西。
And I think maybe in the Bay Area, the parallel is like people who make their passion into a startup and then the founders are just focusing all their time running this business and then it no longer is like what they wanted it to be in the beginning.
没错。
Right.
然后他们就可以把它卖了，赚一大笔钱。
Then they can just sell it and make a lot of money.
是的。
Yeah.
深刻的话。
Deep word.
我的意思是，我知道确实有些人特别热衷于创办公司，一旦达到一定价值就立刻卖掉。
I mean, there I know there are some people who are really into just, like, starting up companies and selling them immediately once they reach, like, certain value.
那太酷了。
That'd be dope.
就像《创智赢家》里的人。
Like, Shark Tank people.
有点吧。
Kind of.
对。
Yeah.
他们基本上就放手了。
They kinda just let go of it.
就像是嗯。
It's like Mhmm.
我已经为这份热情投入了全部努力。
I've I've put in all my effort for this passion.
我已经把它发展到了我希望它达到的样子。
I've brought it to what I wanted it to reach.
对。
Right.
所以我不想再继续下去，让它几乎变成一种负担。
And so I'm not gonna extend that so that it becomes some sort of, like, burden almost.
嗯。
Mhmm.
有意思。
Interesting.
他们就转而去忙下一件事了，这个策略还挺耐人寻味的。
They go on to the next thing, which is like a pretty interesting strategy.
对。
Yeah.
就好像把它当成自己的孩子一样，养大之后再送它去上大学，没错。
It's like their baby, they grow it, and then send it off to college every Yeah.
那最后我们要聊的话题，就是如何在工作中疏导你的这份热忱。
So the last thing that we wanted to talk about was channeling your passion at work.
我觉得当你开启朝九晚五、每周要做满四十小时工时的生活后，很容易就会感觉自己只是机器里的一颗小齿轮。
I think when you start the nine to five life doing forty hour workdays, it's really easy to start to feel like a cog in the machine.
你会觉得自己不过是机器里众多齿轮中的一个，虽然确实在帮整台机器运转，但你只负责了其中一件微不足道的小事。
You just feel like one of the many gears in a machine and you're you're helping make the machine work, but you're also doing like one thing.
嘿。
Yo.
是的。
Yeah.
我要开始叫别人‘齿轮’了。
I'm gonna start calling people a cog.
你他娘的齿轮。
You fucking cog.
他们根本不知道这是什么意思，这让你更
And they don't know what it means which makes They're you even more
像是在真的侮辱人。
like, I'm really insulting.
还是我该觉得这是在夸我？
Or should I feel complimented?
但没错，这真的太对了。
But yeah, that's so true.
尤其是因为外面有这么多大型企业。
Especially because there's so many giant corporate companies out there.
对。
Right.
很容易觉得自己的工作得不到关注，或者看不到立竿见影的回报。
It's very easy to feel like what you're doing doesn't get visibility or maybe, like, you can't see the immediate payoff.
是的。
Yeah.
回报。
Payoff.
是的。
Yeah.
就我个人而言，我现在这个阶段更喜欢为小公司工作，因为我现在可以稍微不那么稳定一些。
Like, me personally, I at this point in my life, I kind of like to work for smaller companies just because I have the freedom to be a little less stable right now.
嗯。
Mhmm.
当我在这类小公司工作时，我有更多机会承担不同的角色，探索不同的领域。
And when I work in these smaller companies, I have a bigger opportunity to wear different hats at work and be able to explore different things.
是的。
Yeah.
我确实知道，在湾区有很多人，即使被大公司录用，也只想去初创公司工作。
I actually know in the Bay Area, there's a lot of people who only wanna work at startups even if they're offered jobs at bigger corporations.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这是因为，
It's because yeah.
就像你说的，在小公司里，你能看到自己更大的贡献和影响。
Like you said, you know, there's more of a benefit or you can see the bigger impact that you have in a smaller company.
这太有趣了。
That's so interesting.
我完全理解他们的想法。
Totally see where they're coming from.
但是，是的，我并不能完全感同身受。
But, yeah, I cannot necessary or exactly relate.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我确实是一个重视稳定的人，嗯。
I definitely am someone who values stability Mhmm.
尽管我本人也可以很随性。
As someone who as spontaneous as I can be.
我选择在大公司工作的原因是，我知道，说到底，我需要一个可以依托的基础。
I the reason why I work more at a corporate size is because I know well well, the idea is that I have a foundation that I build upon
是的。
Yeah.
我从里弗赛德搬到莫阿巴。
Having moved out here from Riverside Moabao.
但自从搬到这里、住在旧金山后，我想确保自己先打下坚实的基础，再去做一些更有风险的事情。
But having moved up here and living in San Francisco, I wanna ensure that I have a solid foundation before doing anything a little bit more risky.
对。
Right.
也许将来我会创业什么的。
Maybe down the line, I'll do a startup or something.
是的。
Yeah.
但目前来看，公司工作对我来说非常有益。
But for now, I think corporate is really doing me good.
对。
Yeah.
这很有道理，因为我有特权去探索不稳定的工作选项，因为我家人在这里支持我。
That makes a lot of sense because I have the privilege to to explore unstable job options just because, like, I have the support of my family up here.
所以如果我突然失业了，也不会流落街头什么的。
So if I suddenly am jobless, I'm not gonna be homeless on the streets or something.
对。
Right.
卡米勒说：‘天哪。’
Camille's like, oh, shit.
无家可归。
Homeless.
我此刻眼神躲闪。
I'm like, all shifty eyed right now.
但她却说，她不能对我也这么说。
But she's like, she's not can't say the same for myself.
但确实，如果我要搬去另一个城市，比如突然搬到纽约，我肯定得找一份更稳定的工作。
But, yeah, definitely, like, if I were to say move to a different city, like, suddenly move to New York or something, I would definitely have to look for a much more stable job.
一份能让我有信心觉得‘我靠这份工作能活下去’的工作。
One that would give me confidence in, like, okay, I can survive with this job.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
该死。
Damn.
我们明白了，水晶。
We get it, Crystal.
你父母在这里。
You have parents here.
是的。
Yeah.
把你偷走。
Steal you.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
等一下。
Hold on.
非常抱歉。
I'm so sorry.
我父母在这里。
I have parents here.
那种特权。
That privilege.
所以回到当螺丝钉，当该死的螺丝钉。
So going back to being cogs, being fucking cogs.
该死的螺丝钉。
Fucking cogs.
你们在工作中会做些什么来让自己感觉不那么像机器里的一个螺丝钉？
What are some things that you guys do at work so that you feel less like a cog in the wheel slash machine?
是的。
Yeah.
我所在的公司有一个非常棒的计划，叫做20%项目，嗯。
The company I work at, they offer this really cool or they have this cool initiative called 20% projects Mhmm.
他们允许那些在公司工作了一段时间的员工，将20%的工作时间投入到公司内的另一个项目上。
Where they allow people who have been on their team for a solid amount of time to basically allocate 20% of their time towards another project at the company.
这个项目完全可以和他们当前的岗位无关。
And this project could be completely unrelated to their current role.
这个计划专门为了让员工在职业发展上拥有更多自主权，或者纯粹只是为了好玩。
And it's specifically for that individual to kind of have more autonomy in their career trajectory, or it could even just be for fun.
所以，就在几周前，我成功加入了一个20%项目，和公司的音乐团队合作，具体细节我就不多说了。
So what I'm doing is literally a few weeks ago, I managed to land this solid role on a 20% project where I get to team up with, I guess, the music team without going to too much detail.
我所在的公司音乐团队支持新兴艺术家，这简直就是我的梦想。
The music team at my company to support emerging artists, which is literally my dream.
所以，我们拭目以待这个项目会如何发展。
So we'll see how that pans out.
但这真是太棒了。
But That's so cool.
是的
Yeah.
这确实经历了一番波折。
It was it was a process.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得在大公司工作，往往会有很多资源，嗯。
And I think something that comes with working in like a corporate company is that there's a lot of resources Mhmm.
而且有很多来自不同背景的人。
And there's a lot of people from different backgrounds.
比如，我之所以能得到这个职位，要感谢一位住在瑞士的同事，她完全在另一个部门，哦，真厉害。
Like, the person that I owe getting this role to, she sits in Switzerland on a completely different Oh, wow.
我们是在德克萨斯的一次随机会议上认识的。
We met at a random conference in Texas.
但这就太棒了，因为我们同属一家公司，一直保持联系，然后一个机会引出了另一个机会。
So but it's just so cool because we work the same company, we stayed in touch, and then one opportunity led to another.
而且这也很有趣，因为我们因为共同的爱好而建立了联系。
And it's so interesting also because we bonded because of our mutual passions.
但没错，至少在工作中，我能够通过我的工作来释放我的热情，因为我的工作让我能够做出这样的突破。
But yeah, that's how, at least at work, I'm able to channel my passion because my work allows me to take those kind of leaps.
是的，这太棒了，因为我觉得如今很多大公司并不会真正让员工发展他们的热情。
Yeah, that's amazing because I feel like nowadays not a lot of big companies, you know, really let their employees grow their passions.
但有了那20%的时间，真正为员工分配一大块时间去做一些非日常事务，比如不只是埋头算数或一直开会。
But having that 20% thing and really allocating a good chunk of time for an employee to, you know, work on some side things that may not just be, like, crunching numbers or, you know, having meetings all the time.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这确实是让员工在工作中感到更满足的好方法。
That's a really great way to also have the employee feel more satisfied at work.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
这对公司也有好处。
A good It benefits the company.
哦。
Oh.
不。
No.
有趣的是，很多这样的20%项目最终发展成了公司实际支持的产品和服务。
It's interesting too because a lot of these 20% projects, they take off into, like, products and services that the company actually supports.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，以我的情况为例，目标是在经过一定时间后，这个20%的岗位会转为全职职位，比如增加编制。
So the goal for for mine, for example, is at the end of x amount of time, these this role, this 20% role gets turned into a full time job, like head count for
组建一个新团队
a new team
在公司里。
at the company.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以希望如此。
So fingers crossed.
祝大家好运。
Good luck y'all.
是的。
Yeah.
我想换个话题，我特别看重的一点是，嗯。
I think on another note, one thing that I really like to look for Uh-huh.
为了保持自己的兴趣，同时也为了追随热情，我会寻找一家我能产生共鸣的公司。
Just to keep myself interested and also kind of wait to, like, channel passions is finding a company that I can resonate with.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我对科技整体非常感兴趣，所以我通常会去科技公司工作。
I'm really interested in just technology in general, so I tend to work for tech companies.
但我有一个要求，那就是我必须对自己所做的事情感到满意。
But one requirement that I kind of have is that I need to be able to feel good about what I'm doing.
我需要觉得我所在的公司能在某种程度上帮助社会。
I need to feel like this company that I'm working for is helping society in some way.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
举个例子，我以前待过的一家公司，主要致力于节约纸张和加快一般文书流程。
So, like, an example is one of the companies that I worked for in the past, it was, like, all about saving paper and expediting just general, like, paperwork.
所以当时我就是在为这样的公司工作。
And so it was it was like me doing work for it.
我能理解人们会说，天哪。
I can see that people will say, oh my god.
我用了你们公司的产品，它帮我节省了大量时间，非常有用、有帮助且易用。
I use your company's product, and it saved me so much time, and it was so useful, helpful, and easy.
我觉得，真不错。
I'm like, nice.
听到这些真是太好了。
Like, that's so good to hear.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以，这就是找到一家你能产生共鸣的公司。
And so that's just like finding a company that you can resonate with.
所以，即使你不一定对你为他们做的工作充满热情，至少你可以对公司充满热情。
So even if you're not necessarily passionate about the work that you do for them, at least you can be passionate about the company.
当然。
For sure.
这实际上是我加入当前公司的最大原因。
That's actually the biggest reason that I signed on with my current company.
我供职于一家护肤品公司，我们最重要的品牌价值观之一是将所有利润的一定比例捐赠给非洲和东南亚的女孩建学校。
So I work for a skincare company, and one of the biggest brand values that we have is we donate a certain percent of all of our profits Mhmm.
用于为非洲和东南亚的女孩建立学校。
Into building schools in Africa and Southeast Asia for girls.
太棒了。
Amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
因为有很多欠发达的国家，尤其是对年轻女孩来说，接受教育很困难，因为那里的教育并不是优先事项。
Because there's a lot of underprivileged countries where, especially for young girls, it's hard to get education because that's not, you know, a big priority there.
是的。
Yeah.
天哪。
Damn.
是的。
Yeah.
所以是这样的。
So yeah.
比如，这是一家由女性经营的护肤公司，她真的相信为那些缺乏机会的人创造更多可能性。
Like, I you know, it's a woman run skincare company, and she really believes in developing more opportunities for people who may not have it.
我真的非常喜欢这一点。
And I really love that.
我当时就想，天哪，这太不可思议了。
Like, I was like, damn, that's insane.
是的，这
Yeah, that's
太酷了。
so cool.
是的。
Yeah.
就像以前，你知道的，那时候还是个初创公司。
Like, even before, you know, it was a startup back in the day.
甚至在我们公司开始盈利之前，甚至在创始人拿到工资之前，她就已经在捐款了。
And even before our company started making profit, even before our founder had a salary, she was still donating the money.
她一直在捐出收益。
Like, she was still donating the proceeds.
天哪。
Oh my god.
太令人敬佩了。
Mad respect.
这就说明她是真的靠谱。
That's how you know she's, like, is real.
没错。
Exactly.
都是真实的。
It's all real.
我认为这非常值得尊敬和钦佩，尤其是在这个时代，科技泡沫如此巨大，很难找到真正产生深远影响的公司，确实如此。
I think that's so respectable and admirable especially in this day and age where, I don't know, the tech bubble is so huge now where it's it's hard to find companies that make a solid impact Exactly.
那些真正重视影响力，而非金钱、知名度这类概念的公司。
Where they actually value impact over, I don't know, the money that they make, visibility, those kind of concepts.
是的。
Yeah.
太棒了。
That's sick.
听到这个真让人振奋。
Awesome to hear.
是的。
Yeah.
继续做你自己，女孩。
Keep doing you, girl.
是的。
Yeah.
而且这
And it's
也很酷，因为Jisoo非常热衷于护肤和美容行业。
also really cool because Jisoo's super into, like, that skincare industry, beauty industry.
你也能在这个行业工作。
You get to work in that industry as well.
是的。
Yeah.
我刚开始的时候特别可爱，因为我真的找了很久的工作。
It was so cute when I started because I actually job hunted for a really long time.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这正好和我的旅行计划撞上了。
Kind of coincided with my travel plans and stuff.
所以我直到三月毕业后的十二月才开始工作。
So I didn't start working till December after I graduated in March.
这真是个漫长的过程。
So it was like a long process.
是的。
Yeah.
当我拿到这份工作时，我妈妈的朋友嗯。
And when I landed this job, my mom's friends Uh-huh.
他们给我办了一场晚宴。
Threw me like a like a dinner party.
天哪。
Oh my god.
然后他们说，他们非常高兴我的热情和技能能在这份工作中融合在一起。
So And then they said they were so happy that my passions and my skills were aligning into this one job.
哎呀。
Aw.
他们说
They were
这太适合你了。
like, it's perfect for you.
我起鸡皮疙瘩了。
Had goosebumps.
我知道。
I know.
这对你来说真好。
That's so good for you.
是的。
Yeah.
然后Juicy说，我没有热情。
And then Juicy was like, I don't have passions.
真的零个。
Literally zero.
只是
Just
开玩笑的。
kidding.
但确实如此。
But yeah.
天哪。
Oh my god.
太可爱了。
That's so cute.
我认为选择正确的公司，就像你所说的，克莉丝特尔，真的很重要。
I think choosing the right company, like you said, Crystal, is really important.
当然。
Definitely.
是的。
Yeah.
我认为我们都选择了一家在某种程度上适合我们的公司。
I think we all chose a company that fits us in a certain way.
比如，对卡米耶来说，是很多的稳定性，但也有一些探索的自由。
Like, for Camille, it's a lot of stability, but also, like, freedom to explore.
对。
Right.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而对于你来说，是行业方面，还有背后的所有理念。
And then for you, it's, like, industry wise and then also the message behind everything and that.
而对于我来说，是公司的规模，以及对社会的积极影响。
And then for me, it's, like, the size and doing good in society as well.
对。
Right.
并且留出空间去探索。
And just giving room to explore.
那么，关于你的工作职能本身呢，我想知道？
So what about in terms of, like, your job functions itself, I guess?
你
Do you
你们会做些什么来确保自己的思维依然保持敏锐吗？
guys do anything to kind of make sure that your brain is still, you know, fresh?
是的。
Yeah.
所以，这正是我目前正在努力的事情。
So this is something I'm working on.
有趣的是，我刚才说的每一件事，其实都还在不断改进中。
And it's funny because, like, everything that I'm saying right now, everything's always a work in progress.
我本该先说明这一点的。
I should have prefaced with that.
而且我总是在学习新东西。
And it's always, I'm learning something new.
所以我现在正在做的是这个。
So that's what I'm in the process of right now.
就像我正在参与的这个20%项目，当然，我仍有80%的精力投入到当前的岗位上，而且我必须做好。
It's like, with this 20% project I'm taking on, of course, I still have 80% allocated towards my current role and I gotta do good there.
但我真的对这20%的项目充满期待。
But but it's like, I'm so excited for this 20%.
对吧？
Right?
但再说一遍，我负责管理一些应用。
But again, so I manage apps.
这些应用涉及不同的垂直领域。
And these apps, they range in terms of vertical.
所以我管理的应用范围很广，从像接龙这样的休闲游戏应用，到约会应用，哦。
So I manage anywhere from, like, casino, like, solitaire apps to dating apps Oh.
到音乐应用。
To music apps.
种类非常多样。
Huge variety.
是的。
Yeah.
这简直太有趣了。
Oh, it's hella fun.
而且很酷的是，我还能出差。
And it's cool because I get to travel.
我可以亲自和这些人交流。
I get to talk to these people in person.
嘿，应用开发者真的超搞笑。
Yo, app developers are mad funny.
他们就是我的同类。
Like, they're my kind of people.
但不管怎样，我为了确保自己在工作中保持创造力，会主动成为团队中擅长我所热爱的创意工作的专家。
But anyways, something that I do to ensure that, I guess, I have creativity in my role is to also be like a specialist on the team for the things I'm I enjoy doing creatively in the role.
例如，最近我已经成为音乐、媒体和新闻领域的垂直专家。
For example, recently, I've become, like, a vertical expert for music, media, news.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
这样一来，我就能专注于自己感兴趣的事情，确实如此。
And in that way, it's like I get to hone in on what I'm interested in Yeah.
但最终这仍然为团队做出了贡献
But it ultimately still contributes to the team as a
整体。
whole.
太棒了。
That's awesome.
对我来说，有时候我会尝试提出一个想法，比如我觉得我们需要这个，这是我想要参与的项目，然后说我觉得我们需要这个，而我有能力完成它，并为团队提供支持。
I think for me, sometimes, I will try to basically present an idea, like I think we need this, and it's something that I would want to work on, and then say like I think we need this and I'm capable of doing this and being able provide this for our team.
因为我们团队很小，所以我有这个能力。
Because we're such a small team, I have the ability to do that.
是的。
Yeah.
提出某些项目来让工作内容稍微多样化一些。
Bringing up certain projects to be able to mix things up a little bit.
比如，这次我想制作一个视频，或者做一些品牌手册之类的东西。
Like, maybe I wanna create a video this time or maybe I wanna, like, do some sort of branding booklet or something like that.
所以，多样化工作的想法。
So the idea of of mixing it up.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我喜欢这个。
I like that.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
For sure.
我觉得这样做真的很勇敢，因为你是在向你的老板推销自己。
I feel like that's really, you know, brave to kind of put yourself out there because you're pitching to your boss.
你是在向不同的团队推销，说我觉得我的专长和热情让我相信这件事很重要之类的。
You know, you're, like, pitching to different teams and saying, I think my expertise and my passion leads me to believe this is important or something.
是的。
Yeah.
我对此有个问题。
Oh, I have a question on that.
是的。
Yeah.
我们职业生涯都还很年轻，你有没有遇到过这种情况：对方说，‘你刚毕业吧’，或者拿年龄说事？
So being all of us being so young in our careers, do you ever get hit with a, oh, you just graduated or the age card Oh.
那种感觉就是，我已经在这个行业干了很多年了。
Where it's like, I've been in the industry for years.
你居然要教我怎么做？
You're gonna tell me how to do this?
然后你就说，没错，我就是要教。
And you're like, actually, yeah, I will.
哦。
Oh.
你们有没有遇到过这种情况？
So have you guys ever been hit with that?
我不知道。
I don't know.
幸运的是，到目前为止还没遇到过。
Luckily for me, not yet.
对。
Mhmm.
我觉得一部分原因是，有时候我负责的工作内容里，我们可能没有对应的专职人员来做。
I think part of it is because sometimes when I present stuff, it's maybe we don't have a specialized person.
举个例子，现在我们团队里就没有专职负责视频的人员，既没有摄像师，也没有视频剪辑师。
Like, for example, right now in our team, we don't have a specialized video person, like videographer or video editor.
嗯。
Okay.
但我确实掌握这些技能。
But I, have those skills.
虽然我不算做得顶尖，但我完全能靠这些技能完成项目，或是搞定动态设计之类的工作。
Not the best at it, but I can manage to make a project through it or motion design or something.
他们就没法说什么‘哎呀可我们这里有专业人士能……’
They can't be like, oh, well, we have a pro here who
把这活儿干了。
can do it.
我想想，从来没人亲口跟我说过‘你年纪小，所以肯定不懂’这种话，但我确实能感觉到这种态度。
I guess I've never verbally been told, oh, you're young so you wouldn't know, but I do.
不过我发现，很多人会拐弯抹角地表达这个意思，不会真的把那几个字说出口。
But I think there's a lot of ways to say that without actually using those words.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yeah.
就像有时候在工作中技术项目的会议上，哪怕这个项目是我牵头负责的，高管们有时还是会用轻视的态度跟我说话。
So like sometimes during meetings for technical projects at work, even if I'm spearheading the project, I'll have execs kind of talk down to me sometimes.
不过倒不是那种居高临下的语气，对吧？
Not not in a condescending way, right?
他们本身也不是故意要那样的。
Like they don't mean it in that way.
确实是这样，没错。
They don't, yeah.
但他们经验丰富得多，所以想指导你。
But they just have so much more experience that they wanna guide you.
是的。
Yeah.
但对我们来说，另一端的情况就像是：天哪。
But I guess on the other end of the spectrum for us, know, it's kinda like, shit.
我花了这么多时间做研究，但这个人还是可能会告诉我该怎么做。
Like, I spend so much time researching, but this person is still gonna tell me what to do, kind of.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这是一种权衡，因为你希望向他们学习。
So it's like the trade off because you wanna learn through them.
是的。
Yeah.
但你也知道，你有自己的技能。
But you also, you know, you have your own skills.
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