该死，我需要心理治疗

是的

Yeah.

而且，我该怎么克服这些，变得正常呢？

And like, how can I get over these things and be normal?

嗯

Mhmm.

当时的情况是，如果你已经到了回避一切的地步，基本上就像你所做的那样，把自己完全与外界隔绝，因为你觉得所有事情都会引发某种焦虑，是的。

And it was like, if you're at the point where you're avoiding everything and you basically, kind of what you were doing, like, shutting yourself off from everything because you think that everything will trigger some sort of, like, anxiety Yeah.

或者，恐慌发作，那就是你不应该到达的境地。

Or, like, panic attack, then that's the point where you don't want to be.

你应该试着锻炼，克服这种情况，努力不让焦虑控制你。

And you should like try to exercise to like get over that and attempt to like not let your anxiety control you.

对

Right.

我完全同意。

I totally agree.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我觉得你的症状非常严重。

So I think yours is really intense.

对于我来说，读完那之后，我就想，好吧，我不想让焦虑主宰我。

For mine, I was like after I read that, I was like, okay, I don't want to let anxiety be the boss of me.

我的焦虑主要表现为一种强烈的末日感，总觉得我会心脏病发作而死。

For basically my anxiety, it shows itself as I have the impending sense of doom that I'm gonna have a heart attack and die.

对。

Yeah.

每次我感到左胸疼痛、胸痛、心悸，或者类似的情况，我都会想，不行。

Every time I felt like a pain on my left side or chest pains or like a heart flutter or anything of that sort of nature, I'd be like, okay, no.

去你的吧，焦虑。

Fuck you, anxiety.

我一定能克服这个问题。

Like, I'm gonna be able to get over this.

我之前的所有日子都挺过来了。

I've survived all the previous days before.

如果我能挺过那些，那这一次我也能挺过去。

If I survive that, then this one, I can survive too.

刚开始真的很难，但我确实成功地掌握了更多的应对方法。

And it was like really difficult in the beginning but I've definitely managed to be more successful in those, like, coping mechanisms.

我很高兴你能在某个时刻意识到这个过程。

I'm really glad that you were able to kind of become aware at some point of the process.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

而且能够找到摆脱这些想法的方法。

And, you know, be able to find your way out of these these thoughts.

当这种情况发生时，不要把自己孤立起来，这真的很重要。

It it is really important to not isolate yourself when that happens.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但正如你们很多人所知道的，当你深陷绝望的深渊时，很难看到其他任何东西。

But as a lot of you may know, when you're really down and deep in that well of despair, you it's really hard to see anything else.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我认为这很好地凸显了我们所有人的经历之间的对比，因为我觉得我们三个人的焦虑表现方式各不相同。

I think this brings up a really good contrast to all of our experiences because I feel like all three of us have anxiety manifested in different ways.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

比如健康焦虑、强迫症，还有侵入性思维之类的。

Like health anxiety, OCD, like intrusive thoughts kind of.

对我来说，是食物焦虑。

And then for me, it's like food anxiety.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这对我来说很有趣，因为我们有不同的应对方式。

It's interesting to me because we have such different coping mechanisms.

就像我之前提到的，对我而言，帮助很大的是识别我的诱因，然后尽量避开它们。

Like, I brought up earlier, for me, what helped me a lot was identifying my triggers and then, like, avoiding it.

是的。

Yeah.

这对我有帮助，因为我的焦虑和我当时做的很多事情有关。

And that helped for me, I think, because my anxiety is related to, like, a bunch of shit that I was also doing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我的食物焦虑逐渐变成了社交焦虑。

My food anxiety kind of became social anxiety.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

所以当我准备去朋友家、参加派对或类似活动时，在某些情境下我会感到极度焦虑，总觉得如果我去的话，每个人都会讨厌我。

So when I was about to go to, a friend's house or, like, a party or something, I would get this really bad anxiety in certain situations where I felt like if I went, everyone would hate me.

哦，天哪。

Oh, no.

而且我会过得特别糟糕。

And I would have, like, the shittiest time.

这就像在某些方面给自己设定了失败的条件。

And it's like setting myself up for failure for some reasons.

几乎是自我破坏。

Like self sabotage almost.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

在大型活动或结识新人之前，我就知道我会出现这种嗯。

And then because I knew that before big events or meeting new people, would have this Mhmm.

我开始在饮食上自我破坏，比如吃的东西。

I would start to, like, self sabotage myself in terms of, like, the food that I was eating.

嗯。

Mhmm.

无论是吃得很不健康，还是不吃，或者吃得太多，我基本上就是在为自己制造这种感觉。

So whether it was, like, eating something really unhealthy or not eating or eating too much of something like I was basically just setting myself up to have that feeling.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我就能合理化自己不去参加。

And then I could justify not going.

哦。

Oh.

当我了解了这个过程以及每一个步骤后，我才意识到我实际上是在伤害未来的自己。

So when I found the process and like each step, I began to realize I'm literally hurting myself in the future.

是的。

Yeah.

对我来说，识别出这个触发因素帮助我及时停止了这种行为，使我能够在社交场合中更正常地 functioning。

For me, identifying that trigger helped me stop that in its tracks, and that I was able to function more normally in social situations.

所以，是的，这挺有意思的，因为你们经历了这样的过程：我操，这玩意儿真烦。

So, yeah, it's like pretty interesting because, you know, you guys went through the steps of, I fuck this shit.

比如，我就学会接受它，然后说不。

Like, I'll just learn to live with it and say no.

而对我来说，关键是停止那些引发我焦虑的行为。

And for me, it was like, I need to stop doing what triggers my anxiety.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得你们俩之间有一些相似之处，你们都能够拆解这种思维模式，是的。

There are some similarities, I think, in that you were able to kind of deconstruct the thought process Yeah.

然后意识到，我的大脑只是在自动反应这些情绪。

And then become aware of, okay, my brain is just going through the reflex of these emotions.

对。

Right.

我遇到这种情况时，会感受到各种情绪，比如羞耻、自我憎恨之类的。

I have this situation and I feel whatever emotion may may it be, shame or, you know, self hatred or something.

这些情绪并不是正确的应对方式。

These emotions are not the way to go.

我会尝试用这种方式来对抗它。

I'm gonna try to counter it that way.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得你几乎能识别出自己的心理触发点。

I think like you recognize your like mental trigger almost.

对吧？

Right?

但对我来说，我觉得是

But then I think for me, it was like

哦，像是一种身体上的。

Oh, like a physical.

是的。

Yeah.

身体上的，还有社交上的。

Physical and also social.

我不想让这种焦虑让我回避他人。

And it's like, I don't wanna make this anxiety make me not see people.

所以这和你的情况也很相似，因为你也不希望它控制你。

So that's also similar to like you because you're like, I don't wanna make it control me.

是的。

Yeah.

你没有让社交触发因素阻止你。

You didn't let the social trigger stop you.

你发现了你的心理触发点，然后停止了它。

You figured out your like mental trigger and then you stopped your mental trigger.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这让人沮丧，就像瓦利之前提到的，有时候我们的大脑就是天生这样运作的，并没有深层的童年原因导致我们患上这些疾病。

I think it's upsetting like what Wally mentioned before about how sometimes our brains are just wired this way and there's no like deep underlying childhood reason why we have these illnesses.

我认为，学会接受这一点也是这段旅程的重要部分。

And I think just learning to accept that is also a big part of a journey.

是的。

Yeah.

就像你不再一味地追问：我为什么会这样？

Like, where you're not just searching for like, why am I this way?

就是这样，我就是这样的。

It's like, I am this way.

所以我会想办法过完余生，然后我会好起来的。

So I'll just somehow live the rest of my life and I'll be okay.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我之前一度很焦虑，看了很多关于焦虑的内容时，曾经读到过一些内容。

I actually read somewhere when I was like, you know, freaking out and reading all about anxiety and stuff.

有人说，有些人你就算给他们巨大的压力，他们也不会有太强烈的焦虑反应，因为他们天生就不是那种容易焦虑的类型。

It said some people, they like, you can throw hella stress at them and they're just they're just not wired to have that much of an anxietal response.

是的。

Yeah.

这个词是这么用的吗？

Is that a word?

但确实如此。

But yeah.

而其他人则很容易受到影响。

And then other people, like, they're just really prone to it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我的

My

我的治疗师谈到过这个问题，他说：那么精神疾病的成因是什么？

therapist was talking about it and he had mentioned, okay, so what is the cause of mental illness?

是先天还是后天？

Is it nature or nurture?

然后他说，大多数精神科医生可能会说，是先天因素，是遗传。

And then what he said was most psychiatrists might say it's nature, it's genetic.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但治疗师通常会认为是你的环境造成的。

But what therapists will usually fall on is it's your environment.

而且这其实是两者共同作用的结果。

And it's it's gonna be a combination of both.

对我而言，有趣的是，在我陷入最低谷后，这迫使我和父母展开了对话。

Interestingly for me, kind of after I hit rock bottom with these issues, that forced me to open a dialogue with my parents.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为当你的孩子不上课、表现不佳，甚至流落街头无家可归时，你肯定会想：到底发生了什么？

Because when your your child is not showing up to class, they're not doing well, they are literally on the street homeless, you're gonna be like, what the heck is going on?

是的。

Yeah.

我后来发现，我的家人中也有不少人曾遭受过精神疾病、强迫症等问题的困扰。

I found out that members of my family have also suffered from mental illness, OCD and other things.

当我回到中国时，我的姑婆告诉我，哦，其实我当时在问她关于她童年的经历。

When I went back to China, my great aunt told me that, oh, actually I was asking her about her childhood and stuff.

她说，我母亲当时根本不在状态，我想现在你会把这称为抑郁。

She said, oh, my mother was not really there because I guess now you would call that depression.

是的。

Yeah.

我当时就想，哇。

So I was like, wow.

如果我们小时候都知道这些的话

If I if we had all known about this

对。

Yeah.

当我还是个孩子的时候，你们就能留意某些行为，教导孩子一些应对机制，或者说是，

When I was a kid and you would be able to be on the lookout for certain behaviors and you would be able to teach or instill in children, you know, certain coping mechanisms or Yeah.

更健康的思想方式。

Healthier ways of thinking.

但我认为，在亚裔美国家庭中，至少我所在的这个家庭里，为了维持家庭和谐，大家从不谈论自己的问题。

But I think in Asian American families or at least the one I come from, to maintain the harmony of the family, you just don't talk about your own issues.

我在爸爸、我父母身上也看到了这一点。

I see that in my dad, in my parents.

我爸爸有时候——我不知道他会不会称之为崩溃，但他会说，你知道，我也会经历这些问题，作为一家之主，我把它们都扛在自己肩上。

My dad sometimes, I don't know if he would call it a breakdown, but he would say, you know, I go through all these problems too and I carry it on my shoulders as the man of the family.

这里面也有些关于男子气概的东西。

There's some, you know, masculinity stuff there too.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

而且，你知道，这是我的责任。

And, you know, it's it's my role.

我必须这么做。

I have to.

我自己处理这些问题，那你怎么就不能自己处理呢？

And I deal with it myself, so why can't you do it either?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这些对话真的很让人难过。

And I think those conversations is, you know, it's just kind of sad.

他们好像在说，没关系。

It's like they're trying to say, hey, it's okay.

我能做到，你也可以。

If I can do it, you can.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但从你们这一代的角度来看，我们知道，年轻一代对这些话题的讨论要开放得多。

But from your perspective, you know, our young generation, we have a much more open discourse about these kinds of things.

我们知道隧道尽头有光。

And we know that there's light at the end of the tunnel.

你不必独自背负这些重担。嗯。

Like, you don't have to carry these burdens by yourself Mhmm.

因为你并不孤单。

Because you're not alone.

有很多人和你一样。

There's a lot of people out there who are just like you.

你也想对父母说这句话，因为父母也有自己的心理健康问题。

And you wanna say that to your parents too because parents have their own mental health issues.

但这是不同的世代。

But it's just different generation.

像这种事，你不可能总是和父母意见一致。

Like, you're not always gonna see eye to eye on these kinds of things.

是的。

Yeah.

我真的很喜欢我们这一代的一点是，我认为我们正在学会更加坦诚。

What I really like about our generation is I think that we are learning to be more vulnerable.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那是通往康复最重要的一步。

And that's the biggest step toward healing.

是的。

Yeah.

当你学会展现脆弱时，你就能敞开心扉，接受‘我就是这样’的事实。

When you learn to be vulnerable, you can open up and you accept that I have this.

你或许可以称之为弱点，或许不能，但这是我的一部分，我想与你分享，我们可以一起讨论。

Maybe you can call it a weakness, maybe not, but it's a part of me and I wanna share it with you and we can talk about it.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我最终也和父母建立了这样的沟通，这非常好。

And I eventually did develop that with my parents, which was great.

但要开启这样的对话真的很难。

But it's it's really hard opening that dialogue.

我知道对一些人来说，根据你的家庭背景，可能很难达到一种能够坦诚面对这些问题的妥协状态。

And I know for some people, depending on your family background, it may not be possible to get to, you know, sort of a compromise where you're able to be open about these issues.

但是

But

无论如何，即使在家庭之外，也有办法建立情感支持网络。

in any case, there are ways to build an emotional support network even outside your own family.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

That's so true.

我认为这同样非常重要。

And I think that's really important too.

让我们谈谈我们如何应对心理困扰和心理疾病。

Let's talk about how we cope with our mental struggles and our mental illnesses.

我注意到对我帮助很大的一件事是锻炼。

One thing that I've noticed helps me a lot is exercise.

对我来说，锻炼就是做瑜伽。

For me, exercise means like doing yoga.

因为我并不喜欢去健身房锻炼，但我发现瑜伽还带有一种正念的成分。

Because I'm I'm not someone who likes working out at a gym, but I found yoga also has a kind of like mindful aspect to it.

所以当我开始做瑜伽时，它对我帮助很大。

So when I went to that, it helped me a lot.

尤其是因为这部分几乎像是在锻炼时进行引导式冥想。

Especially because part of it is almost like guided meditation while working out.

我个人特别喜欢那种引导语，比如告诉你这样做、那样做，来放松这里、放松那里。

And I personally really like where they like talk you through do this, do that, to relax this and relax that.

所以这对我来说是帮助我应对压力、总体感觉健康的重要方式之一。

And so that's like one of my big things that helps me cope and feel healthy in general.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

对我来说，锻炼也绝对是这样的。

I think exercise for me too, for sure.

有点奇怪，因为我曾经有一些身体形象问题和社交焦虑。

It's kind of like wild because I had some body image issues and social anxiety.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我非常害怕去健身房。

I had so much anxiety about going to the gym.

我觉得很多刚去健身房的人也有同样的经历。

I think a lot of actually new gym goers have the same experience.

我会担心别人在健身房评判我。

I would be scared that people would be judging me at the gym.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我干脆真的凌晨三点去。

So I would literally go at like 3AM.

天啊。

Oh my god.

因为那时候没人会在那里。

Because then no one would be there.

是的。

Yeah.

上大学时我也是一样，情况相当糟糕。

And that was the same thing about me grow like in college, so this was pretty bad.

但去杂货店购物，比如去Safeway，我会等到凌晨两三点，因为那时候没人，我就可以去买东西了。

But grocery shopping, like going to Safeway, I would wait till like two, 3AM because then no one would be there and then I could just go buy stuff.

对我而言，帮助我克服健身房恐惧的是我喜欢举重和跑步。

What helped me a lot with the gym specifically is I like to lift and I like to run.

我只是害怕自己看起来很蠢，所以我做了一个巨大的电子表格，里面列出了锻炼计划和锻炼日历。

I just had this fear of looking stupid, So I made like this huge spreadsheet of like workout routines and then the workout calendar.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这样我就更有条理了，也觉得自己有权利在那里。

So that way it was more methodical and I felt like I had a right to be there.

明白了。

Gotcha.

帮我缓解饮食焦虑的，还有创建一个表格，记录我会吃或做的食物。嗯。

What helped me with my food anxiety was also creating a spreadsheet with what foods I would eat or make Mhmm.

因为我发现计算卡路里会让我感到不安。

Because I found calorie counting was triggering for

我，嗯。

me Mhmm.

但有一个餐食表格能让我期待一周中某些特定的餐食之类的东西。

But having a spreadsheet of meals would help me look forward to certain meals in the week or something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这让我更容易去面对，也分解得更细，这样我就不用为吃什么而焦虑了。

So it was like a little bit easier for me to approach and more broken down so that I didn't have to stress about what to eat.

是的。

Yeah.

这些都是好主意。

Those are all good ideas.

对我来说，避免压力

For me, I guess, avoiding stress

是的。

Yeah.

这是很重要的一部分，因为我发现如果睡眠不好、饮食不规律，我就会感到压力，然后这些想法会立刻回来。

Is a big part of it because I I noticed if I don't sleep well, if I don't eat well, I get stressed and then these are the thoughts come back, like, instantly.

是的。

Yeah.

我想运动也会有帮助，因为它能减少压力荷尔蒙。

I suppose exercise would be good to add because it reduces stress hormones.

你就像在展望未来。

You're like, in the future.

在

In the

未来。

future.

是的。

Yeah.

但我对目前所走的路感到很满意。

But I'm I'm happy with, you know, the path that I'm on right now.

冥想对我帮助很大，或者只是保持觉知，更深入地了解自己的思维方式。

Meditation was really helpful for me or just being mindful or having more insight into the way I was thinking.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我会产生一些侵入性想法，但我会提醒自己：嘿，我可以只是放它过去。

Because I would have this intrusive thought and I would be like, hey, I can just let it go.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道，我可以观察它，然后它就消失了，我可以继续前进。

You know, I can observe it and then it's gone and I can just move on.

是的。

Yeah.

冥想让我能够在我的想法和自我认知之间建立一些距离。

Meditation allowed me to kind of create some distance between my thoughts Mhmm.

和我对自己的看法之间。

And my perception of myself.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我的侵入性想法影响了我的身份认同。

Because my intrusive thoughts were influencing my identity.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我以为，如果我有这些想法，就意味着我是个坏人。

Because I thought if I have these thoughts, that means I'm a bad person.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但事实上，你的想法并不一定意味着你是个坏人。

But, really, what you think doesn't mean necessarily make you a bad person.

重要的是你的行为。

It's what you do.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我意识到，好吧。

And I realized, okay.

如果我的行为没问题，那么这些想法就与我是谁无关。

If my actions are fine, then this has no bearing on who I am.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我喜欢你关于防止压力过度积累的观点。

I I like your point about preventing, like, too much stress buildup.

是的。

Yeah.

我发现，在我焦虑最严重的时候，我吃饭都不正常。

I noticed that when I was in my really bad, like, periods of anxiety, I wouldn't eat properly.

有些人压力大了就会暴食，有些人则会吃不下饭。

Some people get, like, stress eat and some people stress don't eat.

我属于压力大了就吃不下饭的那种。

I'm on the, like, stress don't eat side.

我感觉自己真的不健康。

I actually felt really unhealthy too.

我当时想，天啊，我瘦了很多，而且没有好好对待自己的身体。

I was like, oh, I'm losing a lot of weight and I am not treating my body properly.

所以我就会提醒自己：在这些时候，绝对不能忘记吃饭。

So I would be like, okay, you can't forget to eat during these times.

确保你睡得好，吃得也正常。

Make sure that you're sleeping properly and, like, eating properly.

这样可以进一步减少压力的积累。

And then that can probably reduce more stress buildup.

这就像一个连锁反应。

It's like a cascade.

对吧？

Right?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

比如，你感觉不舒服，所以吃得不好。

Like, you're not feeling well so you don't eat well.

但如果你吃得不好，就会感觉更不舒服。

But if you don't eat well, then you don't feel well.

是的。

Yeah.

这需要彻底改变生活方式。

It's it requires a whole lifestyle change.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我不得不回去重新评估我的整个人生，弄清楚什么对我来说最重要。

So I had to go back and just reevaluate my entire life and just find out what do I prioritize.

现在，我的首要任务是心理健康，我必须接受有时会取消与他人的约定。

Well, right now, my priority is my mental health and I had to be okay with flaking on people.

以前，我会取消与他人的约定，因为我感到抑郁。

Before, I would flake on people because I was depressed.

而现在，我取消与他人的约定，是因为我不想再抑郁。

And now I'm now I was flaking on people because I didn't want to be depressed.

我当时想，对不起。

I was like, sorry.

我需要属于自己的时间。

I I I need my me me time.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这也挺公平的。

I I think that's fair too.

是的。

Yeah.

就像你所说的，我们这一代人对这些事情非常开放。

That's what I like about like you said, like, our generation is so open to these kinds of things.

对。

Like Yeah.

只要你对别人诚实真诚，大多数人会说：‘当然，你尽管放我鸽子吧。’

If you're just honest and genuine with people, most people will be like, hey, like, for sure flake on me.

别再抑郁了。

Don't be depressed anymore.

下次最好别再沮丧了。

Better not be depressed next time.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我还有另一个例子。

So I have another one.

这算是给我的朋友和家人们的一个致意。

This is kind of like a shout out to, I guess, my friends and family.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但帮助我很大的，是和身边的人聊聊这件事。

But what helped me a lot was also talking to people around me about it.

因为我觉得，当这些想法只在自己脑子里打转时，就会变成一个自我怀疑、自我憎恨和负面想法的回音室。

Because I think when it's in your head sometimes, it becomes like this echo chamber of, like, self doubt and, like, self hatred and negative thoughts.

我的男朋友詹姆斯情绪非常稳定。

My boyfriend James is really emotionally stable.

我真的不知道一个人怎么可能这么稳定。

Like, I literally don't know how it's possible for someone to be so stable.

但他在我情绪波动时给了我很大的安定感。

But he provides me a lot of grounding in, like, my waves of emotions.

他总是在那里对我说：嘿，没关系的。

And he was always there to be like, hey, it's okay.

他也不会逼我，你知道的？

And he doesn't press me, you know?

他不是那种像一对一访谈一样问我一堆问题的人。

Like, it's not like a one on one interview where he asked me a bunch of questions.

他只是坐在那里听着，说：你没事，这样就好。

He'll just sit there and listen and be like, you're okay, that's fine.

是的。

Yeah.

或者我们今天就待在家里，也没关系。

Or we can stay in today, that's okay.

是的。

Yeah.

这对我自我接纳帮助很大，我觉得。

And it helped me a lot in my self acceptance, I think.

而且它也纠正了我很多身体形象障碍。

And also it corrected a lot of like my dysmorphia.

所以我终于能看见真实的自己，而不是透过那种像哈哈镜一样扭曲的视角来看自己。

So I felt like I was finally seeing the real me instead of seeing me through this like warped lens of like the fun house mirrors.

所以他很棒，还有一个人是我妈妈。

So he's been great and another person was my mom.

我妈妈在情感表达上比较非传统，她非常情感开放。

My mom is like kind of untraditional in the sense where she was really emotionally open.

在我最糟糕的状态下，我父母强迫我去接受治疗。

In one of my worst states, my parents actually forced me to go to therapy.

哦，天哪。

Oh, wow.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我觉得听到这些真的让人耳目一新。

So I was like really It's refreshing to hear.

我知道。

I know.

我当时真的陷入低谷了，那会儿还是在高中。

I was really spiraling like this was in high school too.

我经常逃课。

Like I was skipping a lot of class.

也不吃饭。

Was not eating.

他们就说：‘这到底是怎么回事？’

And they were like, what the fuck?

他们说，你得去接受心理治疗，不然我们不让你上大学。

They're like, you need to go to therapy or we're not gonna let you go to college.

天哪。

Oh my god.

我当时想，糟了。

And I was like, oh shit.

是的。

Yeah.

但其实还挺好的。

So it was actually pretty cool.

那时候我对此很沮丧。

Back then, was upset about it.

但他们强迫我们参加家庭团体治疗

But they forced a group family therapy

课程。

session.

哇。

Wow.

所以我们坐下来和这位韩国人谈了谈，他问：‘发生什么事了？’

So we sat down with this Korean dude and he was like, what's going on?

然后我第一次听到了父母对我的看法。

And then I got to hear my parents' thoughts of me for the first time.

哇哦。

Woah.

有帮助吗？

Was it constructive?

是的。

Yeah.

确实有帮助，因为我根本没想到，我那时其实非常自私，但我当时做的自我破坏和自残行为，我以为只影响了我自己。

It definitely was because I had no idea that I guess I was really selfish back then, but the self sabotage and self harm I was doing back then, I felt like only affected me.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但结果发现，这影响了我们整个家庭。

But it turns out it was affecting our whole family.

是的。

Yeah.

这让我父母很伤心。

And it was upsetting my parents.

而且，你知道，我完全不知道。

And, you know, I had no idea.

所以当他们向治疗师谈起我所做的事如何伤害了他们时，嗯。

So when they talked to the therapist about how what I was doing was hurting them Mhmm.

你知道，不是那种‘她真是个坏女儿’之类的话。

You know, not in like a, oh, she's such a bad daughter.

而是说，我想帮她，但我做不到。

It was like a, I wanna help her, but I can't.

你知道，这简直太疯狂了。

You know, it's fucking wild.

就像生活不仅仅属于我一个人。

Like life exists outside of just mine.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我在高中期间接受了好几次心理咨询。

And then I had like a bunch of sessions with the therapist throughout high school.

我的意思是，一直到高中毕业，我们并不特别合拍，但他提出了很多问题，帮助我从更宏观的角度思考自己的行为。

I mean, till the end of high school and we weren't the best match, but he did pose a lot of questions that helped me think about what I was doing on a larger scale.

是的。

Yeah.

于是我再也不只是从每天的角度去看待这件事了。

So I was no longer just thinking of it like day by day.

我为了未来的自己而努力提升自己，我想这最终成了一种自我关爱。

I was working on myself for the benefit of future me, which I think ended up being a lot of self love.

对。

Yeah.

对自己有同情心。

Having compassion for yourself.

是的。

Yeah.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

是的。

Yeah.

我很高兴你有詹姆斯。

I'm I'm really glad you have James.

向詹姆斯致敬。

Shout out to James.

我知道。

I know.

向詹姆斯致敬。

Shout out to James.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为有个人愿意倾听真的很有帮助。

I think having that person to listen is really helpful.

是的。

Yeah.

很容易陷入自己的思维怪圈。

It's so easy to get trapped into your own head.

我觉得我能理解。

I think I can relate.

比如，我年轻的时候，那种自私的想法更多。

Like, when I was younger, it was a lot more of that selfish.

你只想着这件事对你自己有什么影响。

You're only thinking about how it's affecting you.

但当你年纪大一些，就会开始考虑这件事对周围人造成的影响，然后这种想法也会演变成某种担忧。

But then when you get older, you kind of start to think about how it's affecting the people around you and then that also manifests into some sort of worry.

我不想让身边的人为我增添额外的担忧。

Like, I don't want to cause this extra worry for the people close to me.

所以我更愿意自己解决这些问题，这样他们看到的只是我开心的一面。

So I'd prefer if I just figured it out on my own so that they can just see a happy side of me.

是的。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

然后呢，是的。

And then yeah.

这非常有趣。

It's very interesting.

我感同身受。

I relate to that.

我父母告诉我，我太自私了。

I well, my parents told me that I was being selfish.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我难道看不到我的行为正在让我们在各种人面前显得很糟糕吗？

And couldn't I see how my behavior was making me making us look bad to various people.

我感到非常内疚，也开始更加孤立自己。

And I felt a lot of guilt and I started to isolate myself more too.

这很难，因为你想要向别人敞开心扉，但你又不确定他们会如何反应。

It's it's hard because you want to open up to people but you're you're just not sure how they might react.

尤其是对家人来说。

And especially if it's family.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道，这些人的看法对你来说最重要。

You know, the opinions matter to you the most.

是的。

Yeah.

是的

Yeah.

我想问你们一个问题。

I wanna ask a question for you guys.

我稍微谈了一下我接受心理治疗的经历。

I kind of touched upon my experience with therapy.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你们有去过心理治疗吗？

Have you guys been to therapy?

哪种治疗对你们有帮助？

What kinds of therapy was helpful?

我去过心理治疗。

I did go to therapy.

我觉得团体治疗最有帮助。

Group therapy, I think, was the most helpful.

我确实接受过一些与精神科医生和治疗师的一对一咨询，他们帮助我深入了解了自己陷入的思维循环。

I did have some individual sessions with a psychiatrist, a therapist, and they provided a lot of insight into kind of thought loops I was going into.

他们会说：好的，我认为这是你的侵入性想法，而这是你对此的反应。

They would say, okay, so I think this is your intrusive thought and this is how you're reacting.

我当时想：哦，是的，这很有道理。

I was like, oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

之后我就开始留意这种情况。

And I would keep an eye out for that.

但当时，虽然现在我的家人很好，我并没有从一些家人那里得到足够的支持，

But because I, at the time, now my family is great, wasn't getting a

很多

lot

所以团体治疗真的帮了我大忙。

of support from some of my family members, group therapy really helped.

有时候，看到其他有类似问题的人，听听他们的看法，会让你感受到：原来我不是一个人。

Sometimes it's nice to see other people who have similar problems to you and hear from their perspectives and you get that sense of, okay, I'm not alone.

对我来说，这是最重要的事。

And for me, that was the biggest thing.

我当时想，好吧，我不是怪物。

I was like, okay, I'm not a monster.

还有其他人也在经历同样的问题。

There are other people who who are suffering from the same issues.

当我听到他们的故事，发现和我的很相似时，我想，他们也不是怪物。

And when I heard about their stories and it sounded similar to mine, I was like, I don't think that they're monsters.

他们只是正在经历困境的人，

They just sound like people who are going through struggles,

需要帮助的人。

who need help.

找到一个社群真的帮了我很多。

Finding a community really helped me.

那么，团体治疗的课程是怎么组织的呢？

So how were the, group therapy sessions kind of organized?

是每个人都分享自己的经历吗？

Was it like everyone shares a part of their experience?

有一位治疗师会引导整个疗程。

There was a therapist who kind of would lead the session.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他会设定一个主题，有点像在讲课，但互动性很强。

He would have a topic and he would kind of it was like he was teaching, but it was very interactive.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且很明显，这个过程非常有同理心，你不需要分享任何你不想说的内容。

And, obviously, it was very compassionate in that you didn't have to share if you didn't want to.

但在不同疗程的过程中，人们越来越敞开心扉，说：是的，我也经历过这个，或者我完全理解你的感受。

But over the course of the different sessions, people opened up more and more and they're like, yeah, I've I go through that too or I totally understand what you're feeling.

因此，从这个意义上说，有很多认同感。

So in that sense, there was a lot of validation.

我真的很喜欢这一点，似乎你即使不分享也能从会谈中获益。

And I really like that it seems like you didn't have to share in order to reap the benefits of the session.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你不会被逼到台前。

So you're not like on the spot.

没错。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

什么

What

你呢，Crystal？

about you, Crystal?

我从未接受过心理治疗，但一直考虑过。

I've never had therapy, but I've considered it a lot.

尤其是在一月、二月我经历那段非常糟糕的时期时。

Especially when I was like going through the really bad time in January, February.

我想那时候真的挺黑暗的。

I guess there was oh, this is really dark.

但在那段最糟糕的时光里，我感到极度不安、害怕、担心自己随时可能猝死，甚至觉得死亡比这种痛苦更好。

But, like, during that time, when it was at its worst, I felt so uncomfortable and scared and worried that I was gonna, like, drop dead any point of time that I thought maybe, like, death is better than this suffering.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且我当时真的、真的，就是特别、特别抑郁。

And I was, like, really, really yeah, I was just like really, really depressed.

这种焦虑引发了抑郁，让我感到无比无助和绝望。

That anxiety pulled up depression and then it made me feel just so helpless and hopeless.

所以我开始考虑接受心理治疗，但同时也非常害怕。

So I started considering therapy and I just like but also I was really scared.

那仍然有点像焦虑，对吧？

It was kind of like anxiety still, right?

我害怕去看医生，害怕说：我觉得我需要治疗，或者需要约个诊，好让我得到诊断。

I was like scared to go to the doctor and be like, I think I need therapy or I think I need some sort of, like, appointment so that I can get diagnosed.

所以我几乎是在自我 sabotaging。

And so I was just self sabotaging almost a little.

是的。

Yeah.

就是我知道我需要帮助，也知道我应该能好起来，但我还是害怕。

Where it's just like, I know I need help and I know I should be able to get better but I'm scared too.

所以我做的就是大量阅读关于焦虑以及如何应对它的内容。

So what I did was I would just read a lot about anxiety and how to cope with it.

只是想从中学到一些东西。

Just try to learn from that.

我试着一天一天地过，对自己说：好吧，如果明天我感觉好一点，或者稍微勇敢一点，我就抓住那种感觉，然后去预约。

And I tried to take it day by day and I was like, Okay, tomorrow, if I'm feeling better or if I'm feeling a little brave, I'm going to hold on to that feeling and then go and make myself an appointment.

我从来没去过，但我希望很快就能去。

I never did, but, I'm hoping that, like, I will soon.

我现在确实好很多了。

I'm definitely, like, in a much better place now.

我稍微稳定了一些，但我认为如果能和别人聊聊，获得一些专业意见，了解如何更好地引导自己，会很有帮助。

I'm a little more stable, but I think it would help just to, like, talk through it and get some sort of professional opinion on, like, how I can maybe guide myself better.

可能有很多人因为经济原因无法获得治疗，但他们可以像你一样找到资源，培养对焦虑的洞察力。

There might be a lot of people who, maybe for financial reasons, don't have access to therapy, but they could find resources like you do and develop that insight into their anxieties.

市面上有很多书籍和工作手册，治疗师常用它们来实施认知行为疗法（CBT），而如今这已成为许多治疗师治疗心理疾病的基础。

There are a lot of books out there and workbooks that the therapists just use on CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy, and that's the foundation that a lot of therapists are using now for mental illnesses.

还有正念冥想，我之前的治疗师大力推荐，人们可以通过它在自己的想法和情绪之间建立一定的距离。

There's mindfulness meditation, which is highly promoted from the therapist that I was seeing that people could look into to kind of help develop some distance between the thoughts that they're having and, you know, the emotions that they're having.

看到我们都走出了人生中最黑暗的时刻，我感到非常开心。

It just makes me, like, so happy that we're all at such a better place in our lives than our darkest spots.

是的。

Yeah.

但我只能想象，可能还有一些听众还没有达到这样的状态。

But I can only imagine there's some listeners out there who may not be at the same place.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，如果可以的话，我鼓励每个人去寻求帮助

So I if I can, I encourage everyone to seek out help

是吗？

Yeah?

以任何可能的方式。

In any way that is possible.

比如，哪怕只是找一个非常值得信赖的朋友。

Like, even if it's just a really trusted friend

是的。

Yeah.

把心里的事说出来，我觉得哪怕这样也能对你有点帮助。

And, like, you get some stuff off your chest, I think even that can help you a little.

是的。

Yeah.

找个人聊聊。

Talk to somebody.

或者如果你无法找人聊，就把它们写下来。

Or if you can't talk to somebody, write it down.

是的。

Yeah.

哦，对的。

Oh, yeah.

甚至只是正视自己。

Even just coming to grips with yourself.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我曾经深陷否认之中。

Because I was in deep denial.

能够把它写下来。

Just being able to put it down.

好的。

Okay.

这就是我的感受。

This is what I'm experiencing.

我当着面承认了。

I'm admitting it out loud.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这是第一步。

That's the first step.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，真正帮助我度过难关的一个想法是：焦虑是我拥有的东西，但它不会定义我。

And, like, one thought that really helped me get through it was anxiety is something that I have, but it's not something that I will let define me.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

在一次治疗中，有人问治疗师：强迫症能治愈吗？

Someone asked the therapist during one of the sessions, OCD curable?

哦，情况能从这里好转吗？

Oh, Can it get better from here?

治疗师说，ACT，当你对自己思维方式的洞察越多，你就越能更好地应对它。

And the therapist said, ACT, Well, the more insight you develop about the way you think, then the better you can deal with it.

这意味着症状会一直存在。

Meaning the symptoms will always be there.

你有这些症状，但重要的是你如何应对。

You have the symptoms, but it's how you react that matters.

我们一直在谈论自己与心理健康相关的个人经历，但我们也都是那些有心理健康问题的朋友。

So we've been talking about our personal journeys with mental health, but we've also all been the friend to someone who has their own mental health issues.

你们觉得在朋友需要帮助时，支持他们最重要的一课是什么？

What would you guys say is a big lesson that you've learned about supporting your friend in their time of need?

我尽量做到认真倾听，当然了。

What I try to do is I try to listen, like actively listen, of course.

然后我会尽量表示同情，但不会过分夸张。

And then I try my best to sympathize, but not like overbearingly so.

因为有时候，当你试图表达同情时，可能会过度补偿，反而让他们觉得自己很渺小。

Because, you know, sometimes, like, you might overcompensate when you're trying to sympathize and then it might make them feel small.

所以我通常会说：我觉得我理解你的感受。

So what I try to do is like, oh, I think I understand how you feel.

然后问一个问题，帮助他们多说一点，感觉更自在。

Maybe ask a question that helps them say more and feel more comfortable.

帮助他们敞开心扉，深入探索。

Like help them open up and explore.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得过去我天生就有点喜欢解决问题。

I think in the past, I'm just naturally kind of like a problem solver.

所以当我自己遇到问题时，我会试图找到根本原因，或者找出最有效的方式来处理事情。

So in myself, like if I'm going through something, need to get down to the root or figure out what the most efficient way of working on something is.

但我觉得当你和朋友交谈时，他们并不一定需要这个。

But I think when you're talking to your friend, you know, that's not something that they're looking for.

所以我真正学到的一点是，帮助朋友时，他们并不总是想要解决他们问题的方法。

So something that I really learned about helping your friend is they're not always looking for a way to resolve their problems.

他们可能只是需要一个可以依靠的肩膀，或者一个愿意倾听的人。

They might just need a shoulder to lean on or someone to listen.

所以我真正努力的是学会抑制住想要替人解决问题的冲动，

So what I really worked on was just learning how to suppress the urges of

天哪。

Oh my god.

只是让他们自己去梳理和处理。

Solving someone's problems and just letting them work it out themselves.

不过我同意这一点。

I agree with that though.

我也有这种倾向。

I I kind of have that tendency too.

是的。

So Yeah.

在这方面努力很好，但也很难。

Like working on that is good and tough.

我也是。

Same.

对。

Yeah.

很好但很难。

Good and tough.

如果我向朋友敞开心扉，曾经有朋友说：‘我找你是因为你也和我一样乱七八糟，所以你能理解。’

If I open up to my friends, I have had friends go like, Yeah, I'm calling you because you're also messed up like you so you can relate.

我当时就想，好吧，我确实有这种同理心，是的。

I'm like, Okay, I've got that empathy there Yeah.

而且我也有这样的背景。

And I've got that background.

但我认为最重要的是倾听，并且做到不加评判。

But what I find to be most important is just lending that ear and just being nonjudgmental.

因为有时候朋友对自己已经有很多苛责了。

Because sometimes the friend has already so many judgments about themselves.

是的。

Yeah.

比如，我有某种感受。

Like, I feel a certain way.

我感到内疚。

I feel guilty.

我觉得自己很糟糕。

I feel like I'm awful.