我们的梦想与抱负

嗨，欢迎回到《Eat Your Crust》播客。

Hi, welcome back to Eat Your Crust podcast.

我是Jisoo。

I'm Jisoo.

我是Crystal。

And I'm Crystal.

我觉得咱们得聊聊梦想和志向了。

I think we need to talk about our dreams and ambitions.

我不确定你怎么想，但我觉得随着年纪增长，我们的梦想、目标什么的，都在悄悄变样。

I don't know about you, but I feel like as we get older, our dreams, goals, and stuff are starting to change.

至少在我这儿，这种变化现在越来越明显了。

And I think at this current age, it's starting to really show, in my mind at least.

我们觉得趁现在这个人生阶段，聊聊彼此的梦想挺有意思的。

We thought it would be fun to chat about our dreams and ambitions at this current life stage.

你心里有没有什么特别想实现的梦想、目标？

Do you have any particular dreams, ambitions, goals that come to mind?

算是吧，也不完全是。

Yes and no.

我觉得过去五年里，我的梦想和目标，就像你说的，真的变了。

So I feel like in the last five years, my dreams and ambitions, like you said, have really changed.

最明显的变化是，小时候我一想到梦想和目标，基本都跟职业挂钩。

And one of the most distinctive changes that I can see is I think when I used to think about dreams and ambitions when I was a younger kid, it used to be more career focused.

比如我想做什么样的工作，想赚多少钱。

Like I wanted to have this kind of job and I wanted to be making this much money.

小时候，我有一半的梦想都纠结于将来会拥有什么样的办公室。

And I think like half of my dreams and ambitions as a child was about what kind of office I would have.

天哪。

Oh my God.

就是那种在高楼里、带独立房间的办公室之类的。

Like a office in a high rise, private room, like that kind of thing.

但我不确定是因为荷尔蒙变化，还是因为现在二十多岁末、结婚了之后，心态不一样了。

But I don't know if it's like my hormones or something or just being like in my late twenties post marriage now.

但我觉得我最大的愿望，就是能有个幸福的小家庭，就那种核心家庭。

But I feel like my biggest dream is to just have like a very happy, tiny little like nuclear family.

有时候我一想这事儿，就觉得自己这梦想简直倒退了三十年，拖了女权的后腿。

Which sometimes I think about it and I'm like my dream is setting back feminism by like three decades.

可话又说回来，这确实就是我真心想要的。

But also at the same time, like, that's just what I want.

我真的最想要的，就是这样的生活，属于我自己的生活。

Like, that's like what I want the most for myself and my life.

我觉得这特别正常。

I mean, I feel like that's very normal.

很多男生也梦想着有孩子、有个幸福的家庭啊。

Like, some guys also have that dream to have a kid and to have a happy family.

这其实是很自然的渴望。

And I think it's a very natural want.

你觉得组建家庭最让你兴奋的是什么？

What do you think is the most exciting about having a family?

是的，这问题问得好。

Yeah, that's a good question.

在我看来，家庭是我生活中最根本的体验。

The way I see it, the family is the fundamental life experience for me.

这就像我的基本单位，你懂的。

That's like my base unit, you know?

我几乎觉得自己是家庭的一部分。

I almost see myself as someone who's a part of a family.

所以家庭对我来说才这么重要。

That's why the family experience is so important to me.

说白了，我这辈子最重要的长期事业就是我的家庭。

It kind of translates to the greatest long term project in my life is like my family.

说实话，这挺有道理的。

Honestly, that makes sense.

我明白你的意思。

I can see what you mean.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我觉得我最大的梦想就是当我家的项目经理。

So I guess my biggest dream is being a PM for my family.

天啊，你这是把职业梦想直接搬进家庭了。

Oh my god, it's just your career dream moved over into family.

对。

Yeah.

有时候我会有点不好意思，因为我的最大梦想和抱负居然是这个——很多人追求的都是事业上的成就。

And I don't know, sometimes I feel self conscious that this is like my biggest dream and my biggest ambition because a lot of people have very career oriented dreams and ambitions.

如果非得说我现在有什么职业梦想，那我最终是想坐上管理层的位置。

I feel like if I had to define a career related dream right now, I eventually want to be in a very managerial position.

但我也不确定。

But I don't know.

以前我会说，希望未来几年内能进高管层，至少当个副总裁，那时候我觉得自己能胜任，也想往那个方向提升能力。

I used to say like, oh I want to be in the C suite in the next X number of years or at least like a VP and I felt like I could see myself doing things like that and wanted to grow my skill set into that direction.

但现在我到了这个阶段，我就想，也许有个轻松点的工作，生活和工作平衡好一点，能准时接孩子、送孩子，不是更好吗？

But now that I am where I am right now, I'm like, is it just better to have a chill job with like a chill work life balance so that I could be there at pickup and drop off for all my kids?

不是说两样不能兼顾，但我的优先级确实在变。

Not that you can't do both, but you know, my priorities are just like shifting.

也许我可以在这儿多让一步，多陪陪家人。

Like maybe I could sacrifice a little bit more here so that I could be there more often for my family.

我不确定。

I don't know.

是啊。

Yeah.

这种想法还挺传统的。

This is a very traditional way of thinking.

你开玩笑说，这简直把女权主义倒退了二十年。

You joked how you're like, this is bringing feminism back by like twenty years.

我觉得没那么夸张，说实话，任何人要是开始组建家庭，大概都会这么想。

I don't think it's that dramatic because, realistically, yeah, I think if anyone were to start a family, those are thoughts that they would have.

我该怎么陪好家人呢？

How do I be there for the family?

有没有什么地方我得调整一下？

Is there any area that I need to adjust?

对啊。

Mhmm.

我该怎么重新平衡生活，应对这个新项目呢？

How do I, like, rebalance my life with this new upcoming, we'll call it a project.

我觉得这些想法其实特别正常。

So I feel like those are very normal thoughts to have.

但确实，这变化挺大的，特别是你可能得暂时歇一歇工作。

But, yeah, I think it's definitely, like, a big change, especially because you'll probably have to, like, take a bit of a break from work for a little.

说白了，得重新想想自己的职业规划。

I guess like reassess your career in a sense.

你愿意为这个投入多少？

How much are you willing to put into that?

或者你真得非得做到高管层才行吗？

Or like do you really need to be C suite or something like that?

是的。

Yeah.

最近我开始在工作中当个观察者，悄悄留意，有时候还会主动问身边有孩子的女同事，看她们是怎么安排时间的，她们一天里能挤出哪些空档，还问她们：你觉得平衡这事儿难不难？

Recently, I've been putting like my observation cap on at work and low key observing and sometimes even like asking women around me, female coworkers who have kids, seeing how they balance their schedule, like seeing what they can slot into their day, asking them questions about like, do you feel like it's hard to do this?

或者你这几年带娃下来，有什么经验心得可以分享？

Or you know, what tips have you like gained over the last few years after you have your kid and things like that.

所以我一直在努力收集尽可能多的信息，好提前做好准备。

So I've been trying to gain and like amass as much knowledge as possible to prepare myself.

这过程还挺有意思的。

And it's been cool.

我之前说过，我更想要轻松一点的工作生活平衡，而不是拼命往上爬到管理层。

I mentioned earlier that I would rather have a chill work life balance instead of gunning for like an executive role.

但说实话，看看周围的人，其实好多人都把这平衡拿捏得挺好的。

But honestly, when you look at people around you, like so many people ride that balance very well.

但很多女性完全有能力同时兼顾工作和家庭。

But many women are so more than capable of handling both workloads at the same time.

所以我希望有一天我也能做到。

So hopefully I'll get there.

我觉得这算是我长远的目标吧——做个职场女性，往上爬，同时也有个家庭，好好陪孩子。

I think that's like my long term goal of being like a career woman, climbing up the corporate ladder, things like that, while also having a family and really being there for my kids.

有时候我觉得，当女人的一大意义，就是把经验传下去，一代传一代。

Sometimes I just think a lot of womanhood is about like sharing this knowledge, passing things down generation and generation.

对啊，这让我想起之前刷到的一个TikTok，说女性会更年期。

Oh yeah, actually that reminds me of this TikTok I once saw where someone was like, Women have menopause.

有人解释说，这是因为女性到了一定年纪就不需要再生育了，剩下的日子就可以专心把经验传给下一代。

One way you can think about the reason for that is that women, at a certain point, don't need to procreate anymore, and they can just spend the rest of their lives passing down knowledge.

大概是说，相比之下，男性一辈子都能生育。

I guess the argument was like, versus men, they always are able to procreate.

所以对他们来说，传宗接代就是主要任务吧。

So that's just their main duty, I guess.

我也见过有人说，女人这一生得学会各种窍门，保护自己免受外界的危险什么的。

I've also seen people say, like, women have to learn tips and tricks in their life to like protect themselves from, you know, outside external dangers and whatnot.

然后她们还希望把这些经验传给那些还不懂这些门道的人。

Then they want to pass that knowledge on to other people who may not know the ropes yet.

我记得从小到大，姑姑们总给我一堆建议，我早就习惯向其他女性讨教了。

And I remember even growing up, like I would always get all these tips from my aunts and stuff and I'm so used to asking other women for advice.

所以我觉得，这其实就是很自然的传承。

So I feel like this is just the natural progression.

我三十多岁的时候，该怎么过好这一生呢？

How do I live life in my thirties?

确实如此。

True.

太对了。

So true.

另外，我也见过很多女导演，一边当导演，一边养孩子。

And also, on another note, I have seen lots of women be directors also have children.

我觉得这算是个挺不错的平衡点。

And I feel like that's a pretty good in between.

不一定非得当总裁或者高管，但已经处在挺有权力又很成功的位置了。

No need to be necessarily a president or, like, a c suite, but they're in a pretty powerful and successful position.

话说回来，我觉得在大公司当总监的一大好处就是，通常都会配个助理。

Dude, and I feel like one of the big pros of being a director, at least in big corporations, is that you usually end up getting, like, an assistant.

这样真的能帮上大忙。

Then that, like, helps a lot.

不过这事儿还挺有意思的。

It is interesting though.

我不是真在刻意数，但心里其实有个小本本，记着女同事什么时候说要去接孩子，男同事什么时候说这个。

Like, I mean, I'm not, like, really actively counting, but I feel like I have some sort of mental tally of when female coworkers will be like, oh I have to go pick up my kids versus male coworkers.

感觉更多是女同事会操心托儿所接孩子这类事儿。

And I feel like it's more commonly the female ones that worry about like the daycare pickup and whatnot.

不过我也说不准，每家情况肯定不一样。

So I don't know, I'm sure it's different family to family.

是的

Yeah.

但话说回来，我总觉得这类事往往是女性更常承担起来的。

But in a way I wonder if it's something that the woman ends up taking on a little bit more often.

该是时候

It's time to

把詹姆斯变成一个模范丈夫了。

turn James into a trophy husband.

说得对。

True.

只要家里能顺利运转就行，雷。

As long as the household makes it out okay, Ray.

对啊。

Yeah.

那你呢，克里斯蒂尔？

But how about you Crystal?

你觉得你现在最大的梦想或目标是什么？

What do you think is your current big dream or ambition?

老兄，说实话，我真的不知道。

Dude, I honestly don't know.

如果你听过去年的播客，应该能感觉到我那会儿正经历一堆存在主义危机。

So if you listened to the podcast last year, you could probably tell that I was having a lot of existential crises.

我真没法否认。

And I can't lie.

今年还是老样子。

This year is just the same.

我老在想，天啊，我到底想在人生里达成什么？

And a lot I feel like a lot of these crises are my thoughts on, like, Oh my god, what am I trying to achieve in life right now?

这些目标、抱负、梦想，真的适合我吗？

Are these goals or ambitions or dreams applicable to me?

它们真是我想要的吗？

Are they what I want?

如果是的话，那下一步该怎么做？

If they are, like, what is the next step?

或者说，我到底该干点啥？

Or, like, what do I need to do?

其实有个大问题，我们以前也聊过——我到底想不想生孩子？

I I guess, like, one of the big questions is, and we did talk about this before too, do I wanna have kids?

婚姻到底意味着什么？

What does marriage even mean?

就是这类问题吧。

Like, all that kind of stuff.

所以我得好好面对一下，到底是什么在拖我后腿，让我对这些事这么害怕。

So I had to like, come to terms with what was maybe holding me back or causing fear in my thoughts about these things.

我之前没提过，因为这事儿是最近才想明白的。

I don't think I shared it because it was more of a recent revelation.

我其实很怕婚后陷入那种特别传统的角色里。

I actually fear falling into really traditional roles in marriage.

所以就跟你说的有点像。

So kind of like what you were talking about too.

我不想为了组成家庭，就放弃自己的事业。

I don't wanna be the person who has to, like, give up their career just to, like, you know, be in a family.

我也不想最后变成那个天天做家务的人，好像我的事业在家庭里就不重要了，或者我总是围着我未来的丈夫转什么的。

And I don't wanna be the one who ends up always doing the household chores because somehow my career has become way less important in the household or, you know, I'm, like, always serving my potential husband or whatever.

这让我觉得特别不对劲，完全违背我的价值观。

It just feels very like wrong to me and it is not aligned with my values.

可能因为我从小看多了这样的例子，潜意识里就对婚姻产生了恐惧。

So I think because I grew up seeing a lot of that, it instilled some sort of subconscious fear of marriage then.

所以现在我正在跟这种想法较劲。

So now I'm like grappling with that.

说实话，你说得对，我们对世界、对婚姻这类东西的看法，很大程度上都受童年经历的影响。

Honestly, that's a good point because I feel like a lot of how we see the world and how we see these things structures like marriage and whatnot is so impacted by what we know, like in our childhood.

你要么接受它，要么就想改变它、对抗它。

I think you're either okay with it or you wanna like change or like fight it in a way.

我其实也跟你一样，从小看到这些事，但我现在挺接受的。

Like I think I also grew up seeing similar things as you and I'm like kind of okay with it.

当然我会做些调整，但说到底，我觉得这样的结构也没啥大问题。

Like obviously I would tweak it but I think at the end of the day I'm okay with like a structure like that in a sense.

不过我也能理解，如果你不想要那样，我就会开始问自己：婚姻真的是我想要的吗？

But I can also see how if that's not what you want, it would make me question is marriage then what I want?

家庭，真的是我想要的吗？

Like is a family then what I want?

我觉得以我们现在的年纪，正是开始认真质疑这些东西的时候。

I think to an extent our age right now, this is where we really start fighting things like that.

你知道吗？年轻的时候，我想要的很多东西，好像都自动送上门来了。

You know what I So much of what I've wanted at a younger age was kind of like handed to me on a silver platter.

比如，你想做这份工作，你想当这个职位——人家就给你安排好了。

Like, oh, you want to be this job or like, you want to be this position.

我就想，嗯，你说得对。

And I'm like, okay, yeah, you're right.

现在我就在想，我真的想要吗？

And then now I'm like, do I?

我觉得这也挺疯狂的，因为有一部分我根本不确定自己到底想干哪行。

And I think it's like, it's crazy too because part of me is like not even sure what my career ambitions are.

天哪。

So it's like, oh god.

那我人生其他方面，又哪来的目标呢？

How can I have ambitions in like any part of my life?

我压根儿没想明白过。

I don't think I have it figured out at all.

你觉得是不是年轻的时候，事情反而没那么难？

Do you think in a way it's also like things feel easier when you're younger?

那时候，有个梦想或者目标，感觉轻飘飘的。

So like having a dream or an ambition feels lighter.

可现在我们年纪大了，这些事好像突然变真实了，就开始纠结：这到底算不算我的梦想？

And then now that we're older, maybe it feels more real and we're just like, oh, do we wanna label this as our dream?

哦

Oh

天哪。

my god.

没错。

Absolutely.

我小时候也跟你有同样的梦想。

I had the same kind of dreams as you did in it as a kid.

我当时还特别期待长大，有份工作，有个办公室，就跟你想的一样。

I was like, oh my god, can't wait to become an adult, have a job, have an office, just like what you're thinking.

可现在呢，就……算了。

And then now it's like, okay.

我们这地方就是开放式办公。

Well, we're just in an open layout.

开放式布局。

Open floor plan.

你心想，这儿连隔间都没有啊。

You're like, there's no cubicles here.

而且，至少在郊区，根本看不到高楼大厦。

And, like, there's no high rises that at least in the suburbs.

那时候，那些梦想就是全部了。

Then, like, that was, like, kind of all the dreams substance.

你懂的。

You know?

就这些，没别的了。

There wasn't anything else to it.

我在这办公室里到底在忙啥？

Like, what am I doing in this office?

你懂的。

You know?

我到底是个什么角色？

What is my role?

现在呢，我觉得明白了。

And now it's like, okay.

我真正搞清楚了公司里的等级结构之类的了。

I actually know the structure of corporate ladder or whatever.

所以，就像你说的，感觉真实多了。

And so, yeah, like you said, it just feels way more real.

对啊。

Mhmm.

既然我要设定目标或者有追求，现在就得具体点才行。

And it's like, oh, well, if I'm gonna make a goal or have an ambition, I have to have specifics for it now.

可你要是真往深了想，这到底意味着啥呢？

And it's like, what does that mean once you, like, put more into it?

是啊，我就觉得，有时候我会羡慕那些对自己人生有特别清晰规划的人，不管是不是事业上的。

Yeah, I feel like this is why sometimes I find myself being envious of people who have very detailed things that they want for themselves in life, whether that's career or not.

我觉得，只有真的特别想要，才可能说得清楚具体想干嘛。

I think you just have to really want it be able to even draw up something detailed about it.

我觉得我真正想要的，就是那个当妈妈、组建家庭的梦，就那种事儿。

And I think the only thing that I've really wanted was again, this dream of like having a family and being a mom and stuff like that.

所以在那个世界里，我脑子里可有太多画面了。

So in that world, I have a lot of visions.

我想做什么、怎么过，都规划得明明白白的。

I have a lot of things mapped out in terms of what I want.

但说到工作、办公室那些事儿，我就只有些模糊的念头。

But yeah, in the career and like office and you know, that kind of stuff, it's like very fleeting visions.

你要问我十五年后想当个啥职位？

So if you were to ask me like, what's the title that you want to be fifteen years from now?

我真的说不上来。

Like, I have no idea.

我就是过一天算一天吧。

I'd just be living my day to day in that sense.

所以我觉得，要为职业定个具体目标，真的挺难的。

So that's why I feel like it's harder to have like a career specific dream or ambition.

是的。

Mhmm.

说实话，你至少在生活的一个方面知道自己真正想要什么，这其实特别好。

And honestly, I feel like it's really good that you do know in one aspect of your life what you really want.

这样你就能像你说的那样，围绕家庭生活这个方向，产生更多想法、更多画面，也更清楚自己想要什么。

Because then you can, as you said, like, you're able to have more ideas and, like, visions and, like, know what you want within this realm of, like, having a family.

所以你能围绕这个核心价值去构建愿景，我有点羡慕你。

So then it's easier to, like, build the vision around that core value, I'm envious of that a little bit.

我只有一个特别模糊的愿望，就是希望有一天能当自己的老板。

I only know one very vague ambition or dream of mine, which is I want to eventually be my own boss, I guess.

希望能找到办法为自己工作，不用被那些公司里的条条框框困住。

Hopefully I can manage to find a way to work for myself and not have to be confined to, like, you know, all the corporate stuff and, like, that.

是的。

Mhmm.

但这个愿望实在太模糊了。

But it's, like, such a vague dream.

我也没辙。

I have no solution for it.

我该怎么做到呢？

How do I get there?

那个啥，具体是干啥的？

What does the, you know, like, what does the role entail?

诸如此类的事儿。

All of that kind stuff.

这梦想其实挺棒的。

That's a good dream actually.

说来好笑，我从来就没想过自己要那样，因为我爸以前自己干过一阵子生意。

And it's so funny because I've actually never wanted that for myself because growing up my dad used to run his own business for a little bit.

所以我一想，天呐，那也太累了吧。

So I'm just like, damn, that's like a lot of work.

但了解你的人就知道，你实现梦想特别快，我觉得你肯定能成。

But knowing you, knowing how quickly you achieve your own dreams, I'm like, I could totally see that happening for you.

哇，谢谢。

Wow, thanks.

我觉得只要是我自己一个人干，还能维持得下去，就不需要雇人了。

I feel like I don't even need people working under me as long as it's like just me and sustainable.

这样就已经很不错了。

That's pretty good already.

我觉得这就算达成目标了。

I would claim that as reaching the goal.

你知道吗，还有件特别有意思的事？

Well, know what's so funny too?

越聊这个，我越好奇。

Is like the more we talk about this stuff, I'm so curious.

要是四年前我们录这个对话的话。

If we were to do this recording like four years ago.

天哪。

Oh my god.

我们那时候会怎么说？

What would we have said?

我觉得你可能会说一个人住。

I feel like you might have said living by yourself.

对啊，没错。

Dude, yes.

我真不知道自己那时候会怎么说。

I have no idea what I would have said.

也许你还是会说家人。

Maybe you would still say family.

是啊，大概吧。

Yeah, probably.

或者跟这个有关的吧。

Or something related to that.

对，我觉得这对你来说是个特别核心的价值。

Yeah, I feel like that's a very core value for you.

我一直在想，随着年龄增长，我们对梦想和目标的定义会不会变呢？

I guess the question that comes to mind is, does what we qualify as a dream and ambition change as we age?

还是说，我们只是在不断打勾完成清单？

Or is it more just like we're checking things off?

比如你已经搬出来一个人住了，那这件事就不再是梦想了。

Like you already completed the living by yourself thing so it's no longer a dream or ambition.

它已经成了你的现实生活。

It's just your reality.

没错。

True.

等等，我其实还有一个梦想。

Oh wait, I do have a dream.

重磅消息！Crystal有个梦想了。

News alert, Crystal has a dream.

天哪，谢谢你提起这个，这真是我一个特别大的心愿。

Oh my god, thank god you brought this up because it's actually a very big dream of mine.

这和一个人住有点关系，但算是更进一步了。

And it's kind of related to living alone, but it's like the next level.

我的梦想就是当个房主。

So the dream is to be a homeowner.

想独自拥有自己的房产。

Wanna be the sole homeowner of a property.

那可太棒了。

Hell yeah.

那样我就能随心所欲地改造，想在墙上打多少洞都行，想刷什么颜色就刷什么颜色。

Because then I'll be able to do whatever I want to it, you know, put as many holes in the walls I want, like paint the walls whatever color I want.

对啊。

Yeah.

就是这类事儿。

Like all of that kind of stuff.

我知道你其实已经在为这个梦想努力了。

And I know this is like a dream that you're actively working towards too.

所以这大概就是你目前最大的梦想了吧。

So it's maybe like your current big dream.

对。

Mhmm.

说实话，我以前也想过这些，只是最近没怎么去想梦想和目标这回事了。

You know, okay, I have thought about this before and I think I just haven't thought about dreams and ambitions in a while.

我们刚开始聊这期节目的时候，我压根没往这上面想，但其实我对自己人生中那些梦想和追求，一直都有个大概的想法。

It wasn't top of mind when we started this episode, but I do kind of have or had a view about the state of my personal dreams and ambitions in the grand scheme of life.

大概四年前吧，我也觉得结婚生子这类事，本来就是人生自然的阶段。

Which is, probably four years ago, I was also thinking, like, yeah, marriage and kids and that kind of stuff is all part of our natural life progression.

但最近我开始对这个想法产生怀疑了。

Lately I've been questioning it more.

那时候我的想法是，如果有一天真要和别人过日子、生孩子，生活重心全转到孩子身上了，那我得在那之前，把所有想干的事都干完。

But back then my thought was always, well, if that's gonna come, you know, like sharing my life with someone and potentially having a kid and therefore your life really becomes about the kid, my thought was like, then I have to achieve as many slash all of my dreams and ambitions before getting into that.

天哪。

Oh my god.

你这话真让我有点震撼。

You're like blowing my mind a little bit.

这也太意外了。

That's wild.

哇塞。

Wow.

因为一旦这些事真来了，生活就不再只围绕你转了。

Because then like once those things come along, it's not about you anymore.

这话说得在理。

That's a good point.

你当然还是可以追求目标，为梦想努力，但家里多了别的事，你也得顾着。

You can still work towards things of course and still fight for your dreams and ambitions but you'll just have other things in the household to also keep afloat.

所以真要排优先级的时候，你的事可能就排不到第一了。

So when it comes down to prioritizing, your thing may not be the first on the list.

对，就是这样。

Yeah, exactly.

我觉得那时候开始有种时间上的紧迫感。

I think it started to feel like a time pressure.

所以近几年，我一直在试着放下这种压力，不再那么纠结于时间限制。

And so in more recent years, I've been like trying to release that pressure, not think about the time restraint as much.

也许这就是为什么我的梦想和目标变得有点模糊，或者没那么强烈了。

So maybe that's why my dreams and ambitions have scattered a little or like softened a little.

说不准。

Don't know.

天啊，你觉得男生也会有这种时间压力吗？

Damn, do you think guys think about this time pressure thing?

不会。

No.

这纯粹是女性的体验。

This is just the female experience.

当然，某种程度上也是。

I mean to an extent too.

我觉得随着年纪渐长，人也会慢慢变得更现实、更务实，开始考虑每件事背后的实际问题。

I think this also just applies to slowly as we age we just become more realistic and practical and think about the logistics behind everything.

所以我觉得，这其实也是我们的梦想如何演变、如何被我们主动调整的过程。

So I think it's also just how our dreams evolve and how we like choose to shape them as well.

但关键问题是，这个转折点到底在几岁？

But what is that age cutoff is the question, right?

什么时候，梦想会从‘我将来要在摩天大楼的玻璃办公室里’，变成‘我接下来八年得怎么一步步实现这个五步计划’？

Like when do dreams morph from visions of me in a high rise glass office into like, what do I have to do in the next eight years to achieve this five step plan type of thing?

我有个小表弟。

Okay, I have a younger cousin.

我记得他那时候大概是二十二三岁。

I think they were either 22 or 23.

特别年轻，刚毕业不久，啥都新鲜着呢。

So they're like pretty young, pretty like fresh out of school and all of that.

我和我哥都发现，这孩子现在特别有野心。

And my brother and I, we noticed that our little cousin is very ambitious right now.

他说：‘我就是一心扑在工作上，现在特别拼，就想把那些目标都实现。’

He's like, yeah, I'm all about the grind, know, I'm really into my work right now and I wanna achieve these things.

说真的，我跟我哥其实也差不多，平时都挺随性的。

And my brother and I to be fair, my brother and I are pretty similar that we're more laid back for most things.

所以我们俩就忍不住说：‘老兄啊。’

And so we were kind of like, dude.

我们就是回他：‘嗯，你继续加油吧。’

We're just like, Yeah, I guess, you know, keep at it.

但其实我们心里想的是：‘天啊，我哥那会儿都快想辞职了。’

But like, in our minds we're kind of like, Dude, my brother was like ready to quit at that time.

他说：‘我想休个长假。’

He's like, I wanna take a sabbatical.

我就说：‘我挺知足的，现在工作时间特别灵活。’

And I'm like, Yeah, I'm just thankful I have so much flexibility at work right now.

所以当时我可能说了句：‘你现在是这么想的，但过几年你就懂了，迟早跟我们一样，心都凉了。’

And so I think at one point I said something like, That's how you feel now, but just wait a couple years, you're gonna get jaded like us.

我兄弟就说：‘哎呀，水晶，别这么说。’

And then my brother was like, Ugh, Crystal, don't say that.

让他自己好好感受一下吧。

Just let him have his moment.

你就让他放手去干，随他去吧。

Know, let him like go all in and, like, whatever.

我心想：‘卧槽。’

And I was like, Damn.

我兄弟说得对。

My brother's right.

我真该闭上嘴，让他自己去经历这一切。

I should just, like, zip my mouth and, you know, let let this dude go through everything.

也许正因为他现在志向这么远大，这种劲头能持续下去。

And maybe because he has such powerful ambitions now, it could carry over.

对。

Mhmm.

但我觉得，快到三十岁的时候，人确实会变得没那么热血了。

But I feel like there's definitely a point in the late twenties where you become a little more jaded for Yeah.

有些事吧，你就觉得，行吧，算了。

Some of these things, and you're like, okay.

那些目标啊，确实有点太理想化了。

Some of these ambitions were a little ambitious.

不如退一步，看看现实，哪些目标是真能实现的、合理的，别老逼着自己去拼那些特别极端的东西，搞得自己特别累。

Let's, like, take a step back, look at reality, what is achievable and reasonable so we don't have to, like, stress ourselves out so much to try to reach some really intense goal.

这话说得在理。

That's a good point.

我觉得我人生好几个阶段，都跟你表弟一样。

And I feel like at many points of my life, I was your cousin.

就是拼命干、不停歇，一心往上爬，那种状态肯定有。

Like grind never stop, climb the corporate ladder, like that for sure.

我琢磨着，是不是非得摔个跟头，才能明白过来。

I wonder if it's like you just have to reach some level of failure.

我不是说那种彻底失败、一败涂地的意思，而是说你突然意识到，自己当初想要的东西，可能远远超出了自己当时的能力范围，或者根本达不到。

And I don't mean failure in a completely negative sense of like, I crashed and burned, but more of just like you hit that point where you're like, actually what I wanted for myself was bigger than what I could provide for myself or like what I could reach right now.

或者，你只是看着身边的人，心里就明白了。

Or if it's just observing other people around you, you know?

我敢打赌，不止我一个人刚入行的时候，觉得凭自己几年内就能搞定这一切。

I can't have been the only person who went into my career thinking that I could do this in X number of years.

可那些比我厉害的人，也没能实现那个目标。

And other capable people around me have not been able to reach that.

所以，也许那根本就不现实。

So maybe it's not as realistic.

我不确定具体是啥，但我记得大概26岁左右，我就开始觉得特别心累。

I don't know what it is but I feel like I, it must have been around like age 26 that I started to feel really jaded.

现在我算是过河了，成了那种拄着拐杖、冲着草坪上闹腾的小孩摇头叹气的人。

Now I've crossed the bridge and become this like shake my cane at, you know, kids on the lawn type of person.

但说真的，我忍不住想，我们是不是都把那种‘你表弟’似的劲儿，一直带到了三四十岁？

But in a way, I wonder if we all carried that energy of your cousin like into our thirties and forties.

要是我们能取得更多成就就好了。

Like if we could just achieve more.

会不会是因为我们觉得自己做不到，就干脆降低目标、降低期待，结果真的只追求起更小的梦想了？

Like is it a self fulfilling prophecy of like, oh I feel like I can't achieve this, I'm gonna lower my dreams or I'm gonna lower my expectations and then we just hit lower dreams and ambitions?

说实话，可能真是这样。

Honestly, maybe.

我觉得你说得对。

I think you're right.

如果我们对某些事还保持着当初的激情和野心，大概总会想办法榨出点干劲来。

Like if we were still really excited and like super ambitious about certain things, we would probably dig up the energy somehow.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

我觉得我自己也是，后来就不怎么盯着那些模糊又遥远的大目标了，反而更关注眼前下一步该做什么。

I think also on my end, I maybe stopped looking at bigger long term goals that were, like, vague and undefined, started to look more at, like, okay, what is the next step?

如果这个目标我实现不了，我该怎么看待它才合理呢？

And how reasonable or how should I approach this goal if I can't achieve it?

有时候，尤其是在职场晋升路上，你确实就是做不到，因为有各种阻碍。

Because sometimes, especially in the corporate ladder, sometimes you actually just can't achieve something because of certain blockers.

对。

Right.

比如团队不支持你，或者这个岗位本来就不适合你，诸如此类的情况。

Whether it's like, you know, a team that doesn't support you properly or this role wasn't actually that fitted for you, you know, that kind of stuff.

所以关键是要想清楚：这个下一个目标现实吗？

So it's like, how reasonable is this next goal?

如果它不现实、根本不可能，那我该怎么调整方向？

And if it's not reasonable or not possible, then how do I pivot?

现在我就是这么想问题的。

And that's kind of how I think of things now.

但我觉得最重要的是，别给自己设太紧的时间限制。

But I guess it's like the biggest thing is putting less time restraint on it.

对，而且我觉得另一点是，有时候你会发现，你根本不想追求自己以前拼命想得到的东西，那些你以为是远大梦想的目标。

Yeah, and I think the other thing too is sometimes finding out you don't even want what you were working for or what you thought was such a big dream.

我曾经也特别想往上爬，升到更高的职位，可花了这么多年努力之后，我突然问自己：这真的是我想要的吗？

I think there was a point where I wanted to climb the ladder and shoot up to a higher position, after years of working towards that, I was like, is that even what I want for myself?

这个终点，是不是只是我在追逐一个头衔？

Is this end goal just me chasing a title?

还是说，我真正想要的是这个职位带来的生活方式？

Or do I actually want the lifestyle that comes with this role?

当然，我不是说一有这种觉悟，就直接拒绝了那个职位的offer。

You know, it's not to say that I had that realization and then I turned down the job offer that was that role.

其实我也没能真正拿到那个位置。

Obviously I was also not getting there.

但我认为，梦想和野心随着人生进程自然转变，这再正常不过了。

But I think it's natural for dreams and ambitions to morph and shape into different things.

所以很多变化，其实都是在这些成长过程中悄悄发生的。

So a lot I think just happens in these progressions.

确实如此。

That's true.

有时候我看别人在那个位置上，心里就想：等等，这人怎么这么忙啊。

Sometimes I'll see someone in a certain position and I'm like, wait, that person's like hella busy.

对啊。

Yeah.

晚上六点之后还有这么多Slack消息要回。

Like that's a lot of post 6PM Slack messages.

然后我就想，我真的想要这种生活吗？

And then it's like, do I actually want that or?

没错。

Right.

你说得太对了，我其实好几次都想过，当个独立贡献者不好吗？

You're so right because I think there was a moment, multiple moments actually, where I was like, Is it worth it to become more than an IC?

就是，不升管理岗的那种。

Like, individual contributor?

我有本事照顾别人吗？

Am I capable of taking care of other people?

而且，这种程度的工作和付出，我真的想要吗？

And like, is that something, that level of work and care, something that I want for myself even?

说实话，我一直在想这个问题。

Honestly, thinking about that.

是的。

Yeah.

但目标更清晰了，需要考虑的东西也更多了。

But the image is clearer and you have more to consider.

确实如此。

So true.

我不确定，也许部分原因是我们在把梦想一点点拆解成你所说的、可实现的小步骤，但同时也在问：我为啥非得要这个？

I don't know, maybe also part of it, maybe we're just whittling down the dreams into, like you said, achievable bite sized steps, but also just why do I even want this?

你懂的。

You know?