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嗨，欢迎回到《Eat Your Crust》播客。
Hi, welcome back to Eat Your Crustpodcast.
我是Crystal。
I'm Crystal.
我是Jisoo。
And I'm Jisoo.
最近我们聊了很多关于变老的话题，虽然之前也偶尔提到过孩子和婴儿，但觉得现在可以更深入聊聊这个话题，毕竟年纪大了，看法和感受可能也有了变化。
So we've talked a lot about getting older lately, and we've kind of brushed upon this topic here and there, but we thought it could be fun to talk about kids and babies just a little more in-depth because now that we're older, maybe we have some different opinions or different excitements regarding this topic.
那咱们先说说，随着年纪增长，你对生孩子这件事是越来越期待，还是更中立，或者有点想躲开？
I guess to start us off, are you on camp excited about children as we get older or more neutral or more like avoidant?
我很期待当妈妈，但我也得说，这种期待背后其实有不少复杂的感受。
So I am very excited to have children, but I will say that this feeling is not without like a level of complexity.
在这档播客里，我聊过很多次，从小我就特别想当妈妈，拥有一个幸福的家庭，是我一直以来的梦想。
I've shared a lot on this podcast about how I've always been very excited to be a mom and having a happy family has been a lifelong dream of mine.
所以过去几年，我一直在为成为母亲做准备，这件事一直在我心里占着很重要的位置。
So I think gearing up for motherhood has been on top of my mind for the last couple of years.
但我觉得，二十出头时对当妈妈的那种兴奋，和现在快三十岁了，真正面对这件事时，完全是两回事。
But I think the excitement that you feel about becoming a mom when you're in your early twenties or something like that versus it becoming a real life thing
是的。
Oh, yeah.
现在我看到TikTok上有人公布怀孕消息，心里想的不再是天啊，
As we're approaching 30 is completely different because now when I see, like, pregnancy reveals or something on TikTok, I'm not thinking, oh my god.
等我到了他们那个年纪，我也能这样。
Can't wait till I'm their age and I can also do these things.
而是天哪，
I'm like, oh, shit.
有些人居然比我还要年轻。
Low key, some of these people are younger than me now.
所以我想，没错，我确实非常期待。
So I think, yes, I am very excited.
我很盼望自己能成为妈妈。
I am looking forward to being a mom.
但与此同时，我真的很难相信我们已经到了可以生孩子的年纪。
But it is also at the same time so hard for me to believe that we are at childbearing age.
是啊，真的吗？
I know, right?
我现在在TikTok上看到好多这个年纪怀孕的视频，配文基本都是‘天哪，我居然怀了第一胎’。
A lot of TikToks I see now of people getting pregnant around our age, their caption is something like, Oh my god, going through my first teen pregnancy.
他们自己也觉得不可思议。
They can't believe it either.
他们心里可能在想，等等，我居然可以生孩子了？
They're like, wait, I'm allowed to have kids?
我现在已经是大人了？
I'm an adult right now?
没错。
Right.
毕竟责任太大了。
It's just so much responsibility.
而且这跟别的事都不一样，根本没有实习期，也没有任何培训可言。
And unlike anything else, there's no internship that you do before or like no training period.
你就是被推荐看一两本书，然后直接就被扔进去了。
You're just recommended like a book or two and you're just like tossed into it.
确实如此。
So true.
不过回到最初的问题，我对身边人生孩子其实挺开心的，特别是当这真是他们特别想要的事。
Going back to the original question though, I am actually, I'm excited about people around me having kids, especially if that's something that they really want to do.
但至于我自己，我对将来要不要孩子还是持观望态度，说不上特别想或不想。
But, like, for myself, I'm still neutral to on the fence of, like, what the future holds in terms of childbearing.
不过我觉得，当别人带着孩子出来玩，一脸兴奋地开启人生新篇章的时候，真的特别可爱。
But I do think it's really cute when people bring their kid to hang out and get so excited about starting a new chapter in their lives.
所以我觉得这股氛围和这段时光，特别温暖人心。
So I feel like it's a really uplifting vibe and, like, time.
确实让人很兴奋。
It is very exciting.
其实我还没参加过那种特别正式的婴儿派对。
And I've actually never been to, like, a full on baby shower yet
对。
Mhmm.
除了偶尔在公司举办的那种小型聚会。
Besides the, like, small ones that people sometimes host at work.
就像你刚才说的，那真的是一种充满希望的经历。虽然我不确定用‘希望’这个词准不准确，但就是心里会涌起一股爱和喜悦。
But like you said, it is a very hopeful experience or I don't know if hopeful is the right word, but it's like your heart just swells with love and joy.
对。
Yeah.
他们分享孩子的照片，真的特别可爱。
When they share pictures of their kid, it's just like super cute.
是的。
Yeah.
确实很可爱。
It is very cute.
所以我有个问题想问你，我觉得你说成为父母就像翻开新的一章，这点挺有意思的。
So I have a question for you because I thought it was interesting that you said becoming a parent is like a new chapter.
对。
Mhmm.
我也完全同意。
I also totally agree.
这确实像是一次全新的体验，但你觉得在成为父母的同时，是不是也在某种程度上关闭了人生的另一章呢？
It's like a brand new experience that you're going into, but do you feel like in some ways you're also closing a different chapter when you become a parent?
对，没错。
Dude, yes.
完全同意。
Absolutely.
我是这么看的，当一个人决定承担起做父母的责任时，他们其实是在某种程度上放下自己的重心，或者说自己的生活。
So the way I see it is when someone takes on the responsibility of becoming a parent, they are putting aside their own, I guess, focus or maybe, like, their own life in a way.
当然不是完全不管自己的生活了，而是他们肯定已经准备好要牺牲一定的时间和精力。
Not, like, putting it completely aside, but just they are definitely prepping to sacrifice a certain amount of time and effort.
你得时刻关注他们，确保他们能活下去，吃得饱，所有这些事都得操心。
So you always have to pay attention to them and make sure that they're surviving and they're getting fed and all those things.
所以我感觉，确实有一部分人生篇章就此结束了。
So I feel like there's definitely a closure of a certain level to a chapter of your life.
我最近刚和一位同事聊过。
I was actually talking to one of my coworkers recently.
他刚当了爸爸，去休育儿假了。
He just had a kid and went off on parent leave.
他还跟我谈到了未来。
He actually spoke to me about the future.
他和他丈夫现在有了孩子，他们俩的未来会是什么样子？
Like, him and his husband have this kid now, what does the future look like for these two?
他说他愿意放弃自己的事业，让丈夫继续发展职业生涯。
And he actually said he is willing to give up his career and let his husband continue that career.
我当时就想，天啊，这种对话真的是必须得面对的。
And I was like, oh my god, like these are conversations that you would have to have.
是的。
Yeah.
有时候纯粹就是算账的问题。
Sometimes it's like straight up just about the numbers.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yeah.
我网上看过一些夫妻的讨论，他们得坐下来认真比较，低收入一方的薪水到底抵不抵得上请一个全天候保姆的开销，比如周一到周五朝九晚五的育儿费用。
I've read online about couples having to sit down and literally compare the lower earning partner's salary versus how much it costs to like have a full time nanny or like a nanny from nine to five on Mondays and Fridays.
所以你真的在权衡：我是继续工作，还是干脆当全职父母？归根结底，哪种选择对家庭更划算。
So you're literally evaluating, should I work or should I just be a stay at home parent because net net, what is more profitable for the household?
你说得对，如果没有孩子，这种对话大概根本不会出现，毕竟宠物没那么麻烦。
And you're right, these conversations probably wouldn't happen if you didn't have a kid because your pets are probably not as Yeah.
宠物没孩子那么耗时间，也不像养孩子这么费心。
Not as time consuming and, like, hard to take care of as a kid.
对。
Mhmm.
我们在湾区也深有体会，因为这里有很多高收入的家庭和个人，这直接把其他所有东西的价格都推高了。
This is also very apparent in the Bay Area for us because there's a lot of high earning families and individuals here, which just drives up the price on everything else.
没错。
Right.
在湾区，大家经常聊的一个话题就是托儿费用有多贵。
It is a very common conversation about how expensive childcare is in The Bay.
其他州的情况我真不太清楚。
I can't really speak to any other state.
我相信别的地方肯定也很贵，但我确实知道在湾区，这是个挺严重的问题。
I'm sure it's also very expensive everywhere else, but I just know that in the Bay Area, it is a big problem.
我老是听到一些故事，我觉得大家，包括我自己，心里都有一些期待。
And I keep hearing stories of I think there's, like, some level of expectation that people have, including myself.
我真心希望，等我们有了孩子，双方父母能愿意过来帮忙带孩子。
I am hoping and praying that once we have a child, our parents would be willing to come and like take care of the child.
但即便如此，还是会带来很多实际问题，比如对方是否愿意、有没有时间等等。
But even with that comes a lot of different logistical questions and also a question of like willingness or availability that comes up too.
我觉得这背后牵扯太多复杂的事情，这些对话肯定不容易，有时候甚至让人很不舒服。
So I feel like it's just a lot of complications and a lot of these conversations I'm sure are not the most easy or like comfortable sometimes.
比如你得跟伴侣坐下来谈，说我觉得你应该辞职，或者我妈妈来多带带孩子，诸如此类的敏感话题，这些都可能给关系带来压力，至少会构成挑战。
Like if you have to sit down with your partner and say, okay, I think you should quit your job or, you know, I think my mom should come and take care of the kid more or, you know, like whatever complicated conversations, I feel like it could also put strain on the relationship as well or at least challenge it.
确实如此。
For sure.
我也见过有人跟自己的父母或公婆沟通时特别纠结，心里想着：我不想你们用这种方式带孩子。
And I've also seen where people also struggle with chatting with their own parents or in laws because they're like, Oh, well, I don't want you to parent my kid in this way.
对。
Right.
我一直都是这么带孩子的，结果你们一来，全给打乱了。
Like, I've been working on parenting my kid in this way, and now you're, like, messing it all up.
你懂的。
You know?
不过，我确实看到过很多不同版本的育儿方式，来自同事或朋友。
But, yeah, I think I've just seen so many different variations of, like, what parenthood could look like from coworkers or friends.
所以我觉得你说得对。
So I feel like you're right.
可能性太多了，而且很多都得面对挺难聊的话题。
There's just so many different possibilities and a lot of them can involve tough conversations.
但归根结底，我敢说这一定是一段特别精彩又有意义的经历。
But ultimately, I'm sure it's a very, very exciting and rewarding experience.
完全同意。
Totally agree.
我觉得你提到的，观察那些和我们年纪相仿或者比我们父母那代人年轻的父母，特别有意思，因为我的很多同事都是父母，而且大多只比我大个十来岁。
And I think what you said about observing people who are maybe, like, closer to our age versus our parents' age or something and observing them as parents has been so interesting for me because a lot of my coworkers are parents and a lot of them are maybe, like, within ten years of my age.
我最近才真正明白，什么叫轻松自在的父母。
I think I realized I have very recently learned what it looks like to be a chill parent.
是啊。
Oh yeah.
而且
And
真的让我挺震惊的。
it's like so shocking to me to see.
因为我爸妈平时挺焦虑的。
Because my parents are pretty anxious.
好吧。
Okay.
虽然他们不算特别严厉，但我觉得他们属于那种比较操心的父母。
And while they weren't crazy strict, I would say, they were like worried parents.
对。
Mhmm.
我有个同事，前两天跟她聊天，我说天哪，你看起来太淡定了，毕竟你家孩子还小，不到两岁，但你在工作中从来没听你抱怨过。
And I have a coker and I was chatting with her the other day and I was like, oh my god, you seem so chill because your kid is very young, like under two, but you like never complain about it at work.
你从来不会说，我昨晚都没怎么睡。
You're never like, I got no sleep last night.
当妈妈也太难了吧。
Or like being a mom is so hard.
你到底是怎么做到的？
How do you do it?
她说，我也不清楚。
And she was like, I don't know.
我根本不会一直提心吊胆的。
I'm like not worried all the time.
我当时简直惊了。
And I was like, what the fuck?
我以为当父母就是得时刻担心才对。
I thought that went hand in hand with being a parent.
不过我很高兴你提到这个，因为我确实也见过一些在工作上特别淡定的人，一到孩子身上就完全不一样了。
I love that you brought this up though because I feel like I've also seen what I think is like a chill person at work, but they're less chill when it comes to their kids.
哦，这挺有意思的。
Oh, interesting.
我想到的那些人，确实挺随和的，但该坚持的时候也从不退让。
So some of the people I'm thinking about, they're definitely easygoing, but they also know when to put their foot down.
也许这正是描述这种情况的好方式。
Maybe that's like a good way of describing it.
但一谈到他们的孩子，就会对某些事情特别上心。
But then when we talk about their kids, they're like extra cognizant about certain things.
有时候感觉有点矛盾，我本来觉得你是个挺淡定的人，可我发现你对孩子的事操心特别多。
Sometimes there's a bit of a mismatch there where I'm like, oh, I view you as like a relatively chill person, but I've noticed that you worry about so many things regarding your kid.
我想知道这是为什么，我的直觉是，有了孩子之后，你很可能不自觉地模仿自己父母的做法，因为这些行为都是从小耳濡目染的，你心里对‘父母’该是什么样子早就有个印象。
I wonder what it is because my gut is telling me that when you have kids, you are probably more likely to act like at least one of your parents because it's like learned behaviors, You know what a parent looks like in the context of your family.
而这种行为模式，大概就是你心目中当父母该有的样子。
And that behavior is probably what you associate with being a parent.
所以当你成为父母后，就会觉得：好吧，这些行为我才该做。
So therefore, when you're a parent, you're like, okay, this is the behavior that I should indulge in.
但你的职场形象，可能完全是另外一套你慢慢建立起来的风格。
But maybe your work persona, for example, is something that you build up.
所以这是一种有意识的选择。
So it's like chosen behavior.
没错。
True.
但同时，我觉得可能也没那么有规律。
But at the same time, I could see it being more random than that.
每当我想到这个，就会问自己：如果我当了父母，我会是随和型的、严格型的，还是特别焦虑型的？
It always makes me think if I were to be a parent, would I be a chill parent or like a strict parent or a super anxious parent?
你有没有想过这个问题？
Do you ever think about that?
我有。
I do.
说实话，每天的心情不一样，我对自己的答案也不一样。
And honestly, depending on the day, I feel like my answer for myself changes.
我在想，你会是哪种类型的父母——严格型的，还是随和型的？
And I'm trying to think if you would be a strict parent or a chill parent.
我觉得你可能会偏向某一边，但我觉得你对孩子会有很高的期望。
I could see you leaning either way, but I think you would have high expectations for your child.
天哪。
Oh, shit.
是普遍的高期望，还是针对某些具体方面？
High expectations just in general or about specific things?
我觉得你希望孩子至少在一件事上能有所成就。
I think you would want your kid to be pretty successful in at least one thing.
不能是个无所事事的人。
Like they can't be a bum.
对，没错。
Yeah, yeah.
但我觉得你不会当那种事事插手的父母。
But I don't think you would be like a helicopter parent.
确实如此。
That's true.
我觉得我同意这一点。
I think I can agree with that.
我不是说孩子非得成绩多好，但我希望他们至少有一项擅长的。
Like I wouldn't be like you need to have good grades necessarily but I would probably be like you need to be good at something.
是的，没错。
Yeah yeah.
选一样东西，然后把它做好。
Choose something and be good at it.
别整天无所事事。
Don't just sit around.
我觉得如果你是个随和的人，可能当父母还是会有点焦虑。
I'm thinking if you would be a chill I think you might be a bit of an anxious parent.
对。
Yeah.
我肯定也会很焦虑。
I think I would for sure be anxious.
但我觉得我对孩子不会有什么极端的期望。
But I think I wouldn't have crazy expectations for my kid.
我觉得你在这方面肯定会很理性。
I could see you being very moderate about it.
我希望你成功，但也不想管得太紧。
Also, like, I want to see you succeed but I don't want to be overbearing.
就是这种感觉。
That kind of vibe.
是的。
Yeah.
老兄，谁知道呢？
Dude, who knows?
我说真的，回想起我父母，感觉他们每隔几年就换一种育儿方式。
I mean, I'm thinking back to even my parents and I feel like every couple of years they swapped their parent personas.
我当时就想，这人是谁啊？
And I was like, who is this?
对。
Yeah.
这难道是爸爸4.0版本吗？
What is this like dad version four point zero?
是的。
Yeah.
你就像在问，你怎么不再在乎这个了？
You're like, why don't you care about this anymore?
你觉得你认识的人里有那种虎妈虎爸吗？
Do you feel like anyone you know is like a tiger parent?
对。
Yeah.
我确实能看出来有些朋友会变成那种虎妈虎爸。
I can definitely see some of my friends becoming tiger parents.
我之所以这么问，是因为在我们这一代里，虎妈虎爸挺常见的，你知道的，比如第一代移民父母，或者我们自己就是第一代移民。
I'm wondering because tiger parents are very common in our generation, like, you know, first generation immigrant parents or even first generation immigrants ourselves.
我猜，正因为虎爸虎妈在我们这一代更普遍，下一代可能会慢慢淡化这种做法。
And I wonder if because tiger parents are a little more prevalent for us that it would start to fade for the next generations.
因为我们可能被这种教育方式伤得不轻，我觉得。
Because it's like we might be scarred from it, I guess.
确实。
True.
我在想，虽然传统意义上的虎爸虎妈现在不流行了，但这种理念会不会转变形式。
I'm trying to think though because while I can see the traditional sense of tiger parent being unfashionable, I wonder if the idea of a tiger parent is gonna morph.
我这么说是因为，总会有反主流文化出现，对吧？
The reason I say that is there's always like a counter culture movement, right?
我觉得，正是在虎爸虎妈风潮之后，温柔育儿才开始流行起来。
I feel like in response to the wave of tiger parents, gentle parenting became a thing.
没错。
True.
但温柔育儿其实早就存在了。
But gentle parenting, it's been a thing already.
对。
Mhmm.
所以我在想，等我们和朋友们都当了父母，孩子长大一些，也许温和育儿就过时了，虎式育儿又会重新流行起来。
So then I wonder if by the time that us and our friends are like becoming parents and our kids are older, maybe gentle parenting will be out and then some variation of tiger parenting will be back in.
但可能不会像以前那么极端或那么控制欲强，而是演变成介于温和与虎式之间的一种新方式。
But maybe it won't be as like intense or as helicopter y as before, potentially morph into something more maybe in between gentle and tiger.
是的。
Yeah.
比如直接了当的育儿方式，或者类似的东西。
Like straightforward parenting or some shit.
也许吧。
Maybe.
说实话，我确实看到过一些关于温和育儿的讨论。
I mean honestly I have seen some discourse about gentle parenting.
有时候在评论区里，大家会发表看法，这也很正常。
Sometimes in comments or whatever, people have thoughts about it, which is fair.
我觉得没有任何一种育儿方式是完美的。
I feel like no parenting technique is truly perfect.
所以每种方法肯定都有它的优缺点。
So every style, I'm sure, has certain pros and cons.
不过，我确实挺好奇的。
But, yeah, I'm curious.
因为虎式育儿确实和移民有关。
Because tiger parenting definitely has come with immigration.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得这也是虎式育儿的来源。
And I think that's that's the source of tiger as well.
对吧？
Right?
毕竟它跟亚洲文化什么的脱不了关系。
Because it's, like, Asian or whatever.
你别当真啊。
Don't quote me on that.
不过你提到直升机式育儿，我觉得这种育儿方式确实已经存在很久了。
But I'm glad you brought up helicopter parenting because I do think that one has been just, like, a general parenting style that has existed for a while.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得保护孩子是一种本能。
I guess it's, like, an instinct to wanna protect your kid.
对。
Mhmm.
有些人能稍微放手，让孩子自己去经历，但确实不容易。
And some people are able to kind of let that go a little bit and let their kids live, but it's hard.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Yeah.
我觉得这可能就是你看多了奈飞上那些真实犯罪剧的结果。
I feel like it's what happens when all the content that you see on Netflix is true crime.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我妈妈嘛，倒不能说她是直升机父母，但她特别焦虑，而且超爱看真实犯罪节目。
Because my mom I I wouldn't say my mom is a helicopter parent, but she's like a very anxious parent and she loves true crime.
她就看这个。
It's all she watches.
就连看韩剧，也是跟犯罪有关的剧情。
And even when she watches Korean dramas, it's like crime related drama.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我觉得我小时候她那种紧张兮兮的育儿方式，大概就是被她看的那些内容影响的。
And I feel like the anxiety that she had raising me can be blamed on like the type of content she chooses to watch.
这话有道理。
Hey, that checks out.
我能理解这其中的联系。
I can see the connection there.
我觉得我妈妈对某些事情也会挺焦虑的，但有意思的是，她对有些事焦虑，却只表现出一定程度的担心。
I think my mom can also be kind of anxious about certain things, but what's interesting is that I feel like she's anxious about some things but she only expresses a certain level of anxiety.
挺有意思的。
Interesting.
直到最近，我才意识到她当年对我人生某些重要时刻有多紧张、多焦虑。
So I didn't learn about just how stressed I guess or anxious she was about certain moments or milestones in my life until more recently.
现在我们都成年了，才能好好聊聊这些事。
Now that we're both adults and we can kind of talk about it.
她跟我说：天哪，我根本没想到你能考上大学。
She was like, dude, I didn't think you were gonna get into like university.
那段时间我觉都睡不着。
Like I couldn't sleep.
我当时就说：妈呀。
I was like, dude.
我当时就想，行吧，我能理解你压力很大，但你也别太夸张了，我挺有把握能考上大学的。
I was like, okay, I can understand that you're very stressed but also like, come on, I'm pretty sure I can get into university.
真的，我跟我也我妈聊过一模一样的话题。
No, literally had the same conversation with my mom.
她说，哎呀，我整个高三都特别担心。
She was like, oh, so worried all of senior year.
我就问，担心啥呀？
I was like, why?
对吧？
Right?
放松点。
Chill out.
对。
Mhmm.
她说，除非你以后当了父母，否则你是不会明白的。
She was like, you won't understand unless you become a parent someday.
我当时就想，这话确实有道理。
And I'm like, I'm sure there's a lot of truth to that.
对。
Yeah.
对我们来说，就是觉得，行了，别紧张，放松点。
For us, we're just like, okay, come on, chill.
但也许以后你会觉得，我根本睡不着。
But maybe in the future, you're like, I can't sleep.
要是我孩子考不上学怎么办？
What if my child doesn't get into school?
有一天晚上我们突然醒了。
We wake up one night.
我们心想，等等。
We're like, wait.
这已经不好笑了。
It's not funny anymore.
是的。
Yeah.
她简直说得太对了。
Like, she was fucking right.
我在想，养宠物的人是不是可以通过观察自己怎么对待宠物，来大致推测自己将来当父母会是什么风格。
I mean, I wonder if, like, people who have pets can try to kind of surmise what their parental style will be by observing how they treat their pets.
因为我确实觉得，有些宠物主人特别焦虑，而另一些则完全不把事儿当回事儿。
Because I do feel like some pet owners are more anxious and then other pet owners are, like, more chill about things.
没错。
For sure.
所以这可能就像个预演。
So maybe that's, like, a preview.
不过养宠物和养孩子还是有很大不同，不管是时间安排还是责任负担，都不一样。
Although it is very different to, like, raise a pet versus a kid, even in terms of, like, timelines or responsibilities and stuff.
不是。
No.
但我已经能看出一些相似之处了。
But I can already see some parallels.
有些父母特别在意孩子吃的东西，坚持要给孩子吃健康食品。
Some parents are really careful about what they feed their children and they want to make sure that they're very focused on healthy foods.
有些养宠物的人，对宠物的食物也特别挑剔。
And some pet parents, they are also very picky about the food that they give their pets.
是的。
Yeah.
只喂生食。
Raw food only.
没错。
Yeah.
所以我觉得这肯定是一个很明显的、容易看出的共同模式。
So I'm sure that would be a very similar, you know, one of the easy, like, translatable patterns.
对。
Mhmm.
每当我看到宠物主人跟他们的宠物说话时，我都会经常想这个问题。
I actually think about it a lot when I see pet parents talk to their pets.
因为我觉得人们跟宠物说话的方式其实差别很大。
Because I think there's like a broad spectrum of what people say to their pets.
对。
Mhmm.
但我总是觉得，宠物其实能听懂你对它们说的话。
But I always just assume that pets can understand what you're saying to them.
你知道，我也这么想。
You know I Yeah.
我觉得有些人跟宠物说话纯粹是逗着玩，根本没当真。
I feel like some people just like joke around around their pets and like don't really give it too much thought.
是的。
Yeah.
但这也可能是另一个原因。
But that could be another thing too.
你跟孩子说话的时候，会多温柔呢？
Like how gentle are you with your words around your kids?
当然了。
For sure.
明白了。
Okay.
不过你真正的目标是什么？
What is your like goal though?
你还没当父母，但你希望将来成为什么样的家长？
Because you're not a parent yet, but what is your, like, ideal style that you hope you become?
我觉得我和詹姆斯可以轮流来带孩子，互相配合。
I think I'm hoping that me and James can, like, tag team the parenting a little.
在我想象中，我会是个比较淡定的父母。
In my imagination, I am a kind of chill parent.
会有点焦虑，没错。
Anxious, yes.
但至于说逼着孩子或者希望孩子取得特别特别大的成功，我其实没那么在意。
But in terms of pushing our kid or wanting the kid to be super, super successful, I don't really care about that as much.
我只希望孩子能非常非常快乐、健康。
I wanna have a very, very happy and healthy kid.
对。
Mhmm.
至于成绩之类的，只要不是差得离谱，我都不怎么在意。
And then grades and stuff beyond that, don't care as long as they're not a terrible student.
对。
Mhmm.
但我觉得詹姆斯会有不一样的期望。
But I think James will have like a different set of expectations.
所以我可以当那个唱红脸的。
So maybe I can be the good cop.
哥们。
Dude.
詹姆斯可以当那个严厉的。
James can be the bad cop.
我觉得詹姆斯会对孩子要求很高。
I feel like James would have high expectations.
是的。
Yeah.
我也是这么想的。
I think so too.
我能想象得出来。
I can just imagine it.
你会说，咱们孩子表现得不错。
You would be like, oh, our kid's doing great.
而詹姆斯会说，喂，我觉得他们还能做得更好。
And James is like, dude, I think they can do better.
毕竟我知道他们有这个能力。
Like, I know they have it in though.
我觉得别给孩子太大压力。
I feel like don't push the kid too much.
其实我小时候就是这样长大的。
This was kind of like how I grew up actually.
我爸妈那时候也差不多是这样。
Like my parents were sort of like that.
明白了。
Okay.
我爸爸要求比较严，期望值很高。
My dad was on the stricter side with high expectations.
对。
Mhmm.
我妈妈呢，就希望我开心健康就行。
And then my mom just wanted me to be, like, happy and healthy.
对。
Mhmm.
所以我觉得这就是我习惯的那种相处模式。
So then I feel like this is the dynamic I'm used to.
你就像……太完美了。
You're like, perfect.
这简直跟我小时候看到的一模一样。
This is exactly what I watched grow up.
我能理解。
I can see that.
我完全能理解。
I can totally see that.
我也希望你能建立起自己理想中的那种相处模式。
And I hope that you grow into exactly the dynamic that you want to have.
不过稍微换个话题，你有没有发现身边越来越多的朋友和亲戚都生了宝宝？
But moving on a little bit from ourselves, have you seen more and more friends and people around you have newborns?
天哪，是的。
Oh my god, yes.
这让我特别惊讶，因为你之前提到了青少年怀孕那个梗。
And it trips me out because you mentioned the teen pregnancy meme earlier.
我觉得你说得太对了，有时候我就想，你们怎么就能这么轻易地怀上孩子呢？
And I think that's so true because sometimes I'm like, how are you guys just allowed to have this fetus?
我同事有时候会把孩子带到公司来。
My co workers will sometimes bring in their kids.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Mhmm.
他们总笑话我，说我对婴儿根本一无所知。
And they always call me out because they say that I have no idea what babies are like.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
我记得有一次跟同事聊天，我说，哦，对啊。
I think once I was talking to a coworker and I was like, oh, yeah.
你孩子平时喜欢吃啥？
What does your kid like to eat?
他都十四岁了，反正就是个青少年吧。
It's like a 14 old kid or whatever.
她就说：哦，他特别爱吃鸡块。
She was like, Oh, he loves chicken tenders.
我当时就问：为啥啊？
And I was like, Why?
他不是不该吃加工食品，也不该吃固体食物吗？
He didn't eat processed food and like solid food?
我还以为他得吃到两岁才换正常饭菜呢。
I thought he would just be eating baby food till he was like two years old or something.
我桌上还放着一个毛绒玩具。
And I have this like plushie that sits on my desk.
大概有一英尺长吧。
It's about like a foot long or so.
有一天我拿着它，突然惊呼：天啊，你们家孩子有这么大吗？
And I was like holding it one day and I was like, oh my god, guys, is your kid this big?
我有个朋友，孩子才八个月大。
Because I have a koiko who has like an eight month old.
他说他孩子出生时比这还大呢。
And he was like, I think my kid was bigger than that when it was born.
我当时就...
And I
我直接懵了：什么？
was like, what the fuck?
不过我觉得这经历挺好的。
But I think it's good experience.
有同龄人带着孩子在身边，我特别安心，至少我不是唯一一个对这些事一无所知的人。
Like, I'm very happy to have other people our age with kids around me because I can't be the only one who doesn't know shit like this.
兄弟，我也不知道的东西多了去了。
Dude, I don't know a lot of stuff too.
我当时就在想，等等，他们居然能吃鸡块？
I was right there with you like, wait, they can eat chicken tenders?
我记得你问起他们最喜欢吃什么的时候，
I thought that, like, when you asked, oh, what's their favorite food?
我还以为对方会说：啥都没有。
That the person was gonna say nothing.
得吃婴儿辅食才行。
They have to eat baby food.
对吧。
Right.
最多也就吃点豌豆之类的吧。
Like maybe at most like peas or some shit.
但真的觉得，像我们这个年纪的人带孩子，方式太让人惊讶了，我感觉自己连自己的生活都快管不过来了，天哪。
But yeah, I think it's so crazy to see how people our age are like handling parenthood because I feel like I'm barely on top of my own life right Oh my god.
我也有这种感觉。
I feel that way too.
你身边也有朋友刚生了孩子吗？
Do you also have friends with newborns around you?
有啊。
I do.
三三两两的吧。
A couple here and there.
有几个孩子大一点了，一两岁左右，但确实也有几个特别小的，还不到一岁。
Some of them are like a little older now, maybe like one or two, but there's definitely a few that are pretty young, like under one.
我也说不准。
I don't know.
真有点让人惊讶。
It's kind of crazy.
天哪，真的没想到。
I'm like, woah.
这还是个小孩子呢。
This is a small child.
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我就觉得，哇，这真是个活生生的小生命。
I'm just like, woah, this is a living being.
而且特别有意思的是，哪怕这么小，你也能看出他们的一些性格特点。
And it's also really interesting because even at such a young age, you can see some personality traits.
今年早些时候，在我一个朋友家的聚会上，有个小孩特别喜欢看大人的鞋子，还总想穿。
Recently, there was this kid at my family friend party earlier in the year, and that kid likes to look at adult shoes and wear them.
哇。
Woah.
等一下。
Wait.
搞什么鬼？
What the hell?
因为那是家里朋友聚会嘛。
Because it was a family friend thing.
大家进门都习惯把鞋脱在门口。
Everyone's shoes is, like, by the front door.
所以那个小孩就走到跟前，开始试穿大家的鞋子，真的就是这样。
So this kid, like, he walks over and he starts wearing everyone's shoes and just, like, Yeah.
然后他就穿着走来走去，特别可爱。
Walking And it was super cute.
我当时就想，天哪。
And I was like, oh my god.
太搞笑了。
That's so funny.
就是，他们总有一些小怪癖。
It's just, like, they have these little quirk.
对。
Yeah.
天哪，看婴儿真的挺让人惊讶的。
Dude, it is really crazy watching babies.
我也有过类似的经历，当时我在观察我同事家的宝宝。
I had a similar experience where I was observing my coworker's baby.
对。
Mhmm.
他当时在看书，或者应该说有人在读给他听。
He was reading a book or I guess he was having a book read to him.
对。
Mhmm.
那是一本那种儿童绘本，比如什么‘我们去老麦克唐纳的农场’，然后里面全是农场里的各种动物。
And it was one of those like children's picture books where let's go to old McDonald's farm and then here are all the animals inside the farm.
不过那个画风有点像是那种毛糙、锯齿状的线条，更偏向那种有创意、艺术感的方向，而不是传统那种画奶牛之类的风格。
But the art style was kind of like scratchy, jaggedy lines, slightly more on the like creative artistic side versus traditional like drawings of cows or something.
对吧？
Right?
但他还是看了那些画，看到那幅画着黑白花纹奶牛的画时，就‘哞’了一声。
But he still looked at the drawings, saw the cow that had the black and white pattern pointed at it and was like, moo.
我当时真是惊呆了。
And I was like, holy fuck.
他怎么知道的？
How does he know?
我同事还问我，你在说什么呢？
And my coworker was like, what are you talking about?
这其实就是一种模式识别。
It's like, you know, it's like pattern recognition.
就是我们之前说的那个14个月大的孩子。
And this is like the 14 old that we were talking about.
是啊。
Yeah.
然后他翻了下一页。
And then he flips the page.
画的是只猪，长着鼻子，粉粉的。
It's like a pig with the snout and like pink.
他就说，哼哼。
And he's like, oink.
我当时就惊了。
And I was like, holy shit.
这孩子真是个天才。
This kid is a genius.
然后最离谱的是，最后一页画了一只狗。
And then the craziest thing, on the last page, there was a picture of a dog.
对。
Uh-huh.
但那只狗是蓝色的。
But the dog was blue.
我当时就想，这下他可猜不到了。
I was like, oh, he's not gonna get this one.
因为从头到尾他都在盯着颜色和图案看。
Because this whole time he's been looking at colors and patterns.
你懂的吧？
You know?
对。
Right.
但他看了一眼就说，那是只狗。
But he looked at it and was like, that's a dog.
说实话，真的让我大开眼界。
And it just blew my mind, honestly.
天哪。
Oh my god.
等等。
Wait.
我觉得这特别搞笑。
That is really funny to me.
这都没让你觉得震惊吗？
This isn't blowing your mind.
好吧。
Okay.
但真正的问题是，孩子什么时候开始说话的？
But the real question is, when do kids start to talk?
天哪。
Oh, dude.
我完全不知道。
I have no idea.
说实话。
Honestly.
是的。
Yeah.
我也没把这事儿记清楚。
I don't really have this information locked down either.
我依稀记得以前跟朋友聊过这个。
I remember vaguely speaking about this with a friend before.
我们都给妈妈发消息，说：嘿。
We all started texting our moms like, hey.
我们什么时候开始说话的？
When did we start talking?
我妈妈就说，哦，对啊。
And my mom was like, oh, yeah.
你有点慢。
You're a little slow.
我一开始还以为她在逗我呢。
And I was like, I thought she was trolling me at first.
我就想，不会吧。
So I was like, oh, No.
真的。
Seriously.
到底我是什么时候开始说话的？
Like, when did I start talking?
她说，不是。
She's like, no.
你那时候反应有点慢。
You were, like, a little slow.
我们有点担心。
We were a little worried.
我当时想，等等。
I was like, wait.
但她接着说，不过我们后来弄明白了。
But then she was like, oh, but we figured it out.
你只是因为当时有好几种语言混在一起，所以有点糊涂。
Like, you were just confused because there were multiple languages going on.
你一开口说话，就开始把中文、英语、法语乱七八糟地混在一起。
So once you started talking, you started speaking like Chinglish or like French and English together or, you know, some like random shit together.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我当时就想，哦，原来如此。
I was like, oh, okay.
所以我也不是傻子。
So I'm not stupid.
这还挺奇怪的，毕竟涉及三种不同的语言。
Oh, that is kinda crazy because that's three different languages.
因为那时候我上托儿所，他们主要说法语，偶尔说点英语。
Because my daycare at the time, they spoke mostly French with a little bit of English.
所以她说，对，你在托儿所基本不说话，平时也不怎么开口。
So she was like, yeah, you just like didn't really talk at daycare and you just didn't really talk in general.
然后有一天，你突然就开始说话了。
And then suddenly one day you started talking.
我们当时就想，哦，明白了。
We were like, oh, okay.
她其实什么都懂。
She knows what's going on.
你都能说完整的句子了。
You're like speaking in full sentences.
对，我觉得这事儿挺不可思议的，对吧？
But yeah, I feel like it's just crazy, right?
我们很容易忘记，这些宝宝和小孩其实非常聪明。
It's easy to forget that these babies and kids are actually really smart.
确实如此。
Mhmm.
对。
Yeah.
我们之前聊到科克家的那个宝宝，长得特别可爱。
One of the things that we were talking about with this coker's baby was it's like a really cute looking baby.
是的。
Mhmm.
超级超级萌。
Super, super adorable.
他有时候会做一些动作，明显就是觉得自己特别可爱。
And he would sometimes do these movements that just screamed, I know I'm cute.
你懂的。
You know?
我同事说，是啊，他知道你们都特别喜欢他。
My co worker was like, yeah, he knows you guys are like eating that shit up.
天哪。
Damn.
简直太惊讶了。
Was like, damn.
我的天。
Oh my god.
被他耍了。
Getting played.
另一个跟我关系很近的人，其实不是住在一起，而是我表妹，她也生了孩子。
Another person who has had a kid close to me actually not physically close, but she's my first cousin.
她最近刚生了个孩子。
And she had a kid recently.
我当时就想，天哪。
I'm like, oh my god.
我现在当阿姨了。
I'm an aunt now.
真可爱。
Aw.
我觉得自己好像有责任。
And I feel like obligated.
我就想，我得找个时间去探望一下我那个表亲。
I'm like, I need to go visit my cousin sometime.
我还得见见那个孩子。
I need to meet this child.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得这种感觉挺奇怪的。
It's it's just it's a weird feeling, I think.
所以她父母分享了一些照片。
So her parents were sharing some pictures.
我当时就想，天哪。
I was like, oh my god.
有时候那宝宝还真有点像我的表亲。
Sometimes the baby kinda looks like my cousin.
哇，太可爱了。
Aw, that's so cute.
对。
Yeah.
有时候父母也会感叹，天哪，宝宝长得真像，你知道的，像他们俩中的某一个。
Sometimes the parents are like, oh my god, like, the baby looks like, you know, whichever parent too.
是的。
Mhmm.
特别可爱。
And it was super cute.
我妈妈一直密切关注他们分享的相册。
My mom's been following along closely to, like, the album that they've been sharing.
她说，天啊，你表姐当妈妈的样子看起来真开心。
And she was like, oh my god, your cousin looks like she's having so much fun being a mom.
哎呀。
Aw.
他们老带着宝宝到处走，还给自己起了小昵称。
Like, they keep taking the baby everywhere and they, like, have little nicknames for themselves.
我当时就想，天啊，她现在过得太开心了，这其实挺搞笑的，因为我以前还跟她聊过天，那时候我们年纪还小。
And I was like, oh my god, she's having the time of her life, which is also really funny because I had been chatting with her when we were a bit younger.
我记得她大概28岁，我们那时候26左右吧。
I think she was maybe 28 and we were like 26 or whatever.
我当时就问她，天啊，你准备好结婚了吗？
And I asked her at the time, was like, oh my god, so are you like ready to get married?
她说，我真的不确定。
And she was like, I really don't know.
结果她一满三十岁，立马就说要结婚了。
And then the moment she turned 30, she was like, I'm getting married.
我要生孩子了。
I'm having a kid.
马上就办。
Like, immediately.
我觉得这事儿特别有意思。
So I thought that was pretty funny.
是的。
Yeah.
我在想，到底是什么原因呢。
I wonder what it was.
但我觉得，有时候你就是能感觉到自己准备好去迎接这些新变化了。
But I guess sometimes you just know when you feel ready to do these new things.
不过说实话，我觉得这也挺有意思的，因为你能真正看到一个人的另一面。
But yeah, I feel like it's also interesting because you really get to see a new side of people.
不管是成为父母，还是朋友开始更多地接触婴儿，我觉得这部分特别有意思。
Whether they're a parent or a friend who's interacting a lot more with babies, I find that part also really fascinating.
是啊，确实如此。
Yeah, that's so true.
而且有时候你看到的变化还挺搞笑的，不知道你有没有遇到过这种情况，我曾经跟一个刚生了孩子的人聊天。
And I think sometimes the change you see is kind of hilarious because I don't know if you've ever been in this situation, but I've been in a conversation once where I was like talking to someone, she had her baby.
那时候因为我还没孩子，对吧？
And then at first, because I don't have a baby, right?
我只是像往常一样跟她聊天。
Like I'm just talking to this person.
对。
Yeah.
然后慢慢地，我意识到自己其实是在和三个人对话——我、对方，还有他们的宝宝。
And then slowly through the conversation, I realized that I was in a three person conversation with me, this other person and their baby.
你就会想，等等，这宝宝居然有意识？
You're like, oh wait, this baby is conscious.
而且我
And I
作为父母，你会不停地低头看宝宝，确认他是不是还活着、有没有在呼吸。
think as the parent, you keep looking down at the baby, make sure it's alive and breathing.
于是我也不自觉地跟着这么做，每隔两秒就看看宝宝：你还好吗？
So then I also kept mirroring that, checking on the baby every two seconds, are you okay?
我们仨就这么在聊天。
We're just in like a three person conversation.
是的。
Yeah.
宝宝还跟着点头呢。
The baby's nodding along.
他们发出哞哞的声音。
They're like, moo.
我心里想，天哪，下一个爱因斯坦诞生了。
I'm like, oh my god, the next Einstein.
确实是这样。
But yeah, that is true.
虽然这些宝宝不一定真的用语言参与对话，但他们依然是整个情境的一部分。
Even though these babies might not actually be contributing to the conversation with words necessarily, they're still like a part of the situation.
对。
Yeah.
而且我觉得，这也会潜移默化地改变我们的行为。
And I think subtly, it changes our behavior too.
我尽量不在婴儿面前说脏话，这点很明显。
I try not to cuss around babies, it's the obvious one.
房间里要是还有婴儿，我喝酒时也会觉得有点内疚。
I also feel like somewhat guilty drinking when there's a baby in the room.
虽然我不是家长，但我心里也会想，你不该让孩子看到这些。
Even though I'm not the parent, I'm just like, you shouldn't be seeing this.
这对他们不好。
This is bad for you.
我觉得特别有意思的是，看看谁跟孩子相处得特别好，能特别自然地跟他们玩，逗他们开心。
I think it's also really cool to see who gets along really well with kids who is really able to, like, bring out their playful side and entertain the kids.
说实话，我特别羡慕那些很会带小孩的人。
Dude, I'm hella jealous of people who are good with babies.
我觉得自己挺喜欢小宝宝的，对他们充满喜爱，但天生就是有点放不开。
I feel like I love babies and hold so much affection for them, but I'm just like naturally more awkward.
所以就算面对小宝宝，我也会显得有点拘谨。
So even with babies, I'm a little awkward.
天哪。
Oh my god.
你好呀。
Hello.
我觉得你好像挺怕小宝宝的。
I feel like you're like scared of babies.
有一点吧。
A little bit.
我有点怕抱着他们，或者靠得太近，虽然我心里其实很想抱。
I'm scared of like holding them or being like super close to them even though I want to hold them.
那你有没有主动要求抱过他们？
Have you ever asked to hold them?
有人邀请过我。
I've been offered.
我表亲家生了个宝宝。
My cousin has a baby.
我去看她的时候，那孩子特别小，大概才六个月大左右。
When I saw her, her baby was, like, very, very young, maybe, like, under six months or something like that.
她就问我，要不要抱一下？
She was like, do you wanna hold him?
我当时
I was
有点害怕，所以我就让我妈抱了
a little scared, so I think I just had my mom do
天哪
Oh my god.
没有
No.
但你
You but
你是想抱宝宝的
you want to hold a baby.
我知道
I know.
就是感觉反应太多了
It's just, like, so much response.
我觉得你特别娇小，特别脆弱。
I'm like, you're so fragile and small.
嗯，有道理。
Okay.
你可以这么想：
You should think of it this way.
这孩子的父母已经抱了快十四个月了，你说累不累？
The parents have been holding this baby for, like, what, fourteen months already?
他们早就累坏了。
Like, they're tired.
现在就盼着你来抱一抱呢。
They're excited for you to hold it.
确实如此。
Is true.
那我还不如趁机练练手。
And I might as well practice.
对。
Yeah.
下次我会勇敢一点。
I'll be brave next time.
没错。
Yes.
我还在慢慢找感觉呢。
I'm, like, working up the current.
好的。
Okay.
不过我得说句公道话。
I will say this though.
我确实抱过一些幼儿或者婴儿。
I have asked to hold some toddlers or babies.
确实如此。
Mhmm.
其实真正的问题是，当你和孩子玩得正开心的时候，父母通常会说，‘他们特别喜欢这个食物’，或者‘你可以用这个逗他玩’。
Actually, the real issue comes in when you're holding with them, you're having some fun with them, and usually, like, the parent or whatever will say, like, oh, they really like this food, or you can entertain them with that.
对吧？
Right?
然后他们就把孩子留给你了。
And so then they leave you with the baby.
你这才反应过来，天哪。
And then you realize, oh my god.
我现在变成临时保姆了。
I'm babysitting now.
我该怎么把孩子还回去？
How do I give this baby back?
结果之前他们推荐的那些办法，全都不管用了。
And then suddenly all the things that they recommended aren't working.
我心想：等等，我到底怎么把这孩子送回去？
I'm like, wait, how do I return this baby?
父母们正在开派对呢。
The parents are like partying.
天哪。
They're like, oh my god.
太好了。
Thank god.
这下我可以去喝杯啤酒了。
I can go get a beer now.
真倒霉。
Damn.
这主意其实太妙了。
Actually, that's genius.
我边听边记下来了。
I'm taking notes as we speak.
没错。
Yeah.
我建议你主动要求抱抱宝宝。
I encourage you to ask to hold babies.
别不好意思。
Don't shy away from it.
而且，如果你抱的姿势不对，他们当时就会教你正确的抱法。
Also, if you hold it wrong, they'll teach you right then and there.
这可是免费的指导。
That's a free lesson.
确实是这样。
That's true.
你一说出来，我简直要笑死了。
I'm also dying that you said it.
我当时就想，
And I was like,
肯定不会的。
won't.
是我错了。
My bad.
是他们。
Them.
其实，那天我同事带孩子来的时候，嗯。
Actually, the day my coworker brought in her kid Uh-huh.
我当时兴奋地给詹姆斯发消息。
I was, like, excitedly texting James.
我心里想，天哪。
And I was like, oh my god.
这孩子太可爱了。
The kid is so cute.
你知道吗，那孩子就做了这么个动作。
You know, the kid just did this.
然后就怎么样怎么样。
Blah blah blah.
但我没有说‘那个孩子’或者‘他’，因为是个男孩，我反而给詹姆斯发了大概二十条消息，一直用‘它’来称呼那个小孩。
But instead of saying the kid or he because it was a boy, I sent James like 20 messages where I was calling this kid it.
然后在我那一大串消息的最后，我才补了一句，‘哦抱歉，我说的是他’，还加了个星号。
And then at the end of my long text chain, I was like, oh sorry, I meant him asterisk.
对，我觉得我也经常犯这种错。
Yeah, think I do that too a lot.
毕竟他们看起来还不太像真正的人嘛。
They just don't feel like real people yet.
对。
Yeah.
我们得接受这个事实。
We have to accept that they are.
我脑子里一直有个事儿。
I do have something that has been on my mind.
是的。
Yes.
我想知道你能不能帮我把这个想法再完善一下。
And I wonder if you can help me flesh it out.
好的。
Okay.
我觉得自从我和詹姆斯搬在一起住之后，每年都有人问我们，要不要养只宠物？
I feel like ever since me and James moved in together, people have always asked us every year, do you want a pet?
我总是说不，因为我脑子里总有一些想法，比如觉得养宠物特别麻烦，要照顾它们。
And I always say no because I have all of these things that I have in my head about, like, oh, you know, a pet is so much work to take care of.
得牺牲很多东西，之类的。
There's a lot you have to sacrifice and blah blah.
所以我和詹姆斯一直都有很坚定的理由，不养宠物。对。
And these have been very, like, firm reasons to not get a pet for me and James Mhmm.
大概有十年了吧。
For, like, a decade now.
是的。
Mhmm.
但我就是觉得奇怪，我明明对养宠物这么犹豫，对生孩子却一点不犹豫？
But I'm like, is it weird that I, like, feel all this hesitation about getting a pet, but I don't feel hesitation about having a kid?
我觉得不奇怪。
I don't think so.
因为我马上想到两点。
Because immediately I'm thinking of two things.
第一，养宠物的时候，总有个适应期。
One, when you get a pet, there's like that adjustment period.
如果是成年宠物，你得慢慢带它熟悉新环境。
You know, if it's an older pet then you're getting used to it and showing it its new home.
那段时间通常得花更多时间陪它。
And usually during that time, you need to spend a little more time with it.
如果是刚领养的小宠物，那就更得花时间了。
Or if you adopt, like, a baby pet, then you definitely need to spend more time with it.
对。
Mhmm.
但生孩子的话，你可以休产假。
But when you have a kid, you can have you can take parental leave.
哦。
Oh.
本来就有一些制度能帮你应对这些事。
There's built in systems that help you deal with that.
但养宠物就不行了，总不能请个假专门去养小狗吧。
But with pets, there's not as many like, you can't take a parental leave to to raise a puppy.
对吧？
Right?
确实如此。
That's true.
不过这对那些不想当父母、却想当宠物主人的人来说，就有点不公平了。
Although that kinda sucks for people who don't wanna be parents but wanna be, like, pet parents.
是啊。
Yeah.
还有就是，孩子长大后， hopefully 能变成独立的成年人。
And then the other thing is, like, kids eventually grow up to be, hopefully, an independent adult.
但宠物一辈子都得靠你照顾。
But like pets will always have to rely on you.
没错。
That's true.
孩子还会去别的地方，比如上学。
And kids will go to places, like they'll go to school.
他们不会整天待在家里。
They're not just gonna sit at home all day.
是啊。
Yeah.
等着你回家。
Waiting for you to come home.
是啊。
Yeah.
没错。
That's true.
我一直在想，会不会有点奇怪，因为我认识一些人，他们的想法正好相反。
I wonder if it's weird because I know some people live the other way.
对吧？
Right?
比如，他们特别喜欢养宠物，但对生孩子却有点犹豫，甚至不太愿意。
Like they're like more than happy to have pets, but maybe they feel hesitation or an unwillingness to have kids.
这我能理解，因为养孩子是一项长期的责任，你得把整个人生都投入进去，对吧？
And that makes sense to me because I feel like having a kid is a longer responsibility where you're dedicating your lifetime to this kid, right?
不是说非得为孩子活，而是要当个称职的父母。
Not to solely live for this kid, but yeah, to be a good parent for this person.
但如果你支持生孩子，却不支持养宠物，我就会想，这样真的合理吗？
But to be pro kid and not pro pet, I was like, is that straight?
我也在想一些具体的例子。
I'm I'm also thinking of some examples.
养宠物最大的问题之一就是旅行特别麻烦。
Like, one of the biggest things about having pets is, like, it's a lot harder to travel.
对。
Mhmm.
但如果你有孩子，带孩子出门就行。
But if you have a kid, you can you can just bring the kid with you.
你知道的。
You know?
根本不需要什么特殊规定，比如把孩子装进笼子里之类的。
There's no special rules like kid has to be crated or something like that.
是啊。
Yeah.
只要系好安全座椅，就是这样。
Just car seated and Exactly.
带孩子出门确实要多带点东西，麻烦一点，但完全不是一回事。
Like, it'll be a bit more troublesome to pack, you know, the extra tools to bring the kid on the trip, but it's not the same.
这个世界是为养孩子而设计的，但为养宠物设计的就没那么周到。
The world is built for you to have a kid, but it's a little less built for you to have a pet.
确实如此。
That's true.
我觉得这还取决于你愿意为新的责任付出多少。
I guess it's also, like, what are you willing to do for your new responsibility?
作为妈妈，我愿意为孩子做很多事，但作为宠物妈妈，我可能没那么愿意付出足够的努力去当个称职的宠物妈妈。
Like, feel like I'm willing to do a lot as a mom for a kid, but as a pet mom, I might not feel like I'm willing to do enough to be a good enough pet mom.
所以也许问题就出在这儿。
So then maybe that's what it is too.
而且我觉得，养孩子是一件长期的事。
And I also feel like when you have a kid, it's like a long term thing.
我不太会表达，但我的意思是，养孩子和养宠物完全不是一回事，你懂我的意思吧。
Or I don't know how to describe this right, but I just mean, like, it is more than just having a pet, if you know what I mean.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这是一段完整的旅程。
It's a whole journey.
不是说养宠物就不是旅程，但这是完全不同的生活挑战。
Not that having a pet isn't a journey, but it's like a whole new life challenge.
好。
Mhmm.
这是个重大的决定。
It's a big decision.
养宠物确实也是个重大决定，但性质不一样。
Having a pet, think, is also a big decision, but in a different way.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
这日子肯定会乱成一团。
It's just gonna be crazy.
是的。
Yeah.
我一直在想，等我当了妈妈，会不会回想起现在还没当妈妈的这些时刻，感叹一句：天啊。
I'm like, picturing my life once I'm a mom, I wonder if I'm gonna think back to, like, these moments, you know, when I'm not a mom and be like, wow.
我真的一点都没预料到。
I didn't I had no idea.
天哪。
Dude.
你懂吧，没想到未来等着我的是这个。
You know, like, what was waiting for me.
等你当了两年妈妈，我再把这期节目发给你。
Two years after you have your kid, I'll send you this episode again.
把视频版发给我。
Send me the video version.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我该发的。
I should.
然后你就可以说，天哪。
And then you can be like, oh my god.
我怎么会觉得一个14岁的孩子认不出牛呢？
Why did I think a 14 year old wouldn't recognize a cow?
或者抱歉。
Or sorry.
不是14岁。
Not 14
是14岁的孩子。
year 14 year old.
十四岁。
14 old.
我心想：这还用说吗。
I'm like, duh.
对。
Yeah.
你是不是在想，我怎么会觉得十四岁孩子不会吃鸡块？
You're like, why did I think a 14 old would not be able to eat chicken tenders?
这对我来说太明显了。
It's gonna seem so obvious to me.
你说得对。
You're right.
等我当了妈妈。
Once I'm a mom.
天啊。
Wow.
现在我就盼着你过几年再看这一集了。
Now I'm excited for you to see this episode in x amount of years.
我有时候会在工作中提到生孩子这件事。
I do like sometimes bring up this whole, you know, having kids thing at work.
我其实经常聊这个，不管是私下里还是和你们聊天时都会提到。
I actually talk about it a lot, even in my personal life or in our, you know, conversations too.
我真的挺爱聊这个的。
You know, I like talk about it a lot.
对。
Mhmm.
但我一直在向同事打听，我知道自己打算在几年后要孩子，那之前该做些什么呢？
But I've been trying to get advice from coworkers about, I know I wanna have kids in X number of years.
有什么该提前准备的吗？
What should I be doing before?
或者你有什么建议？你们的生活因为孩子发生了哪些变化？
Or like, do you have advice or like how has things changed for you?
这位同事给我的第一条建议，也是最重要的一条，就是每次见到他，他都会给我同样的建议。
And the number one advice that I've gotten from this one coworker, like every time I see this person, they give me the same advice.
对。
Mhmm.
他的意思是，你得去游说身边的朋友，让他们都同时生孩子。
They're like, you have to be campaigning to your friends to all have kids at the same time.
天哪。
Oh my god.
不然的话，你还得去跟孩子同学的家长交朋友，这简直就像开盲盒，完全不知道会遇到什么样的人。
Otherwise, you're gonna have to make friends with your kid's friends parents and that's like rolling the dice, you know, on who it's gonna be.
你还得跟这些人安排各种约会、聚会什么的。
You're gonna have to do like play dates with these people.
所以，干脆直接跟自己的朋友玩算了，总比去赌一把，跟那些可能合不来、处不来的陌生人打交道要强。
So you might as well make it your own friends versus taking a chance on like someone you may not mesh with or get along with as well.
我当时就跟他们说，我一直在努力尝试。
And I was telling them, I was like, I've been trying.
你还不够努力。
You've not been trying hard enough.
等等。
Wait.
那个人真的跟我这么说的。
That person literally said that to me.
我就说，好吧。
Was like, okay.
天哪。
Oh my god.
至少你已经有一个支持的人了。
Well, I mean, you have at least one person on board.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
True.
没错。
True.
我觉得我现在已经拉到三个人了，这已经
I think I've collected about three people now, which is
足够了。
good enough.
老兄，而且你还有一个正在怀孕的朋友，这已经很接近了，你想想。
Dude, and also one of your current pregnant friends, that's close enough, think.
确实如此。
That's true.
这倒是真的，但这也太离谱了。
That's But it's just crazy.
我有个同事，比我还大几岁，已经有孩子了。
I have a coworker who's a couple years older than me and has a kid.
有时候我看到她，就觉得像是在看两年后的自己。
Sometimes I feel like when I see her, I'm looking at me two years from now.
天哪。
Oh my god.
感觉怎么样？
How does it feel?
很兴奋吗？
Exciting?
感觉有点奇怪。
It feels strange.
哦。
Oh.
我就是喜欢把事情想得太复杂，有时候我会琢磨她说的话，试着分析背后的含义。
I just like to overanalyze stuff, but sometimes I like look into what she's saying and like try to dissect what that means.
你什么意思？
What do you mean?
是说一些普遍的事情，还是关于为人父母方面的？
Like just general things or about like parenthood?
我试着从她的反应中，看未来我对某些事情的态度会不会改变。
I try to see if her responses to things signal how my attitude towards certain things will change in the future.
比如工作时，我们偶尔会聊到锻炼或者去健身房这类事。
So like one example is sometimes at work we'll talk about like exercising or like going to the gym or something.
就像今年早些时候我们提到的，你和我都一直坚持锻炼。
As we've talked about earlier in the year, both you and I have been working out a lot.
现在锻炼已经占了我日程的很大一部分。
It's like a big part of my schedule right now.
是的。
Yeah.
但每次聊到这个，她总会暗示自己好久没去了之类的。
But when we talk about it, she'll kind of allude to like not having gone in a while or something like that.
那我就想，好吧。
So then I'm like, okay.
以后我可能没那么多属于自己的时间，也没那么多空闲了。
I should expect that I won't have as much me time or like as much free time later.
所以我得提前把这些安排好，养成习惯，定好日程，这样等我真的当了妈妈，就会轻松一点。
So then I'll, like, need to bake these things in early and, like, make it a habit and a schedule early so that it's easier when I actually am a mom.
嘿。
Hey.
如果对你有帮助的话，我有个当妈妈的同事，
If it helps, one of my mom coworkers
对。
Mhmm.
她尽量每周锻炼两次，这样就能继续抱得动孩子，孩子越长越可爱。
She makes sure to work out two times a week as much as she can so that she can continue to lift her baby as That's her baby gets so cute.
是的。
Yeah.
但就是这种小事。
But you know, it's just things like that.
我也说不好。
I don't know.
我只是觉得
I'd just
提前做好准备吧。
be anticipating.
确实如此。
That's true.
你永远没法真正知道，除非事情真的发生了。
Like, you'll never truly know until it's happening.
今天我突然想到一件事。
And I had this thought today.
我想着，干脆把整个房子彻底整理一遍，等以后有孩子了，东西也好放。
I was like, dude, I should just fucking declutter this entire house so that whenever we have a kid, the kid stuff would fit.
对。
Mhmm.
而且谁知道我们到时候还会不会住在这儿呢。
And who knows if we'll still be at this place or whatever.
但我想到，我现在还没当妈妈，家里就这么乱，简直太离谱了。
But I was like, the fact that this house is this messy when I'm not even a mom is fucking crazy.
我敢打赌，很快就会到处都是玩具了。
I'm sure there'll be a lot of toys strewn around soon.
不过也许你以后会自然变整洁，因为没那么多时间做那些容易制造杂乱的个人事情了。
No, but maybe you'll naturally become less messy because you'll have less time to do personal things that would cause clutter.
说得对。
That's true.
就像你特别忙的时候，根本没空拖延，因为根本拖不下去了。
It's like how when you're really busy, there's less procrastinating because you just like cannot procrastinate on anything anymore.
是的。
Yeah.
可能以后地上乱糟糟的不再是你的东西，而是婴儿用品了。
Like maybe it'll just be clothes strewn around and then instead of your stuff strewn around, the baby stuff strewn around.
没错，没错。
True, true.
那些东西应该相对简单，对吧？
And that stuff should be relatively easy, right?
就是些小事儿。
It's like tiny shit.
能有多难
How hard
呢？
could it be?
不过说真的，我还是挺为你高兴的。
But yeah, I feel like I'm excited for you anyway.
不管你是紧张还是期待，反正就是那种又紧张又期待的感觉。
Regardless of your nervous anticip wait nervous excited anticipation.
这话总结得挺到位。
That's a good way of putting it.
我觉得这对你来说会是个特别好的经历，毕竟这是你自己真心想要的。
I think it'll be really good especially because it's something that you want.
我觉得那些一直盼着生孩子的人，总是特别兴奋。
I feel like I've always seen a lot of excitement from people who are pregnant or having kids who have wanted to have kids.
哎呀，谢谢。
Aw, thanks.
不过我还有个最后一个问题想问你。
But I do have one final question for you.
好的。
Yeah.
你之前在这期节目里提到过，你对要不要孩子这件事持中立态度，或者说还在犹豫。
Which is you mentioned earlier in the episode that you are neutral slash on the fence about having kids.
对。
Mhmm.
不过，看到身边的人有了孩子，会不会让你有些改变呢？
But does seeing people around you have kids change anything?
可能不会改变你的立场，但会不会让你对怀孕、做母亲这类事情的看法有些变化？
Maybe less so your stance, but how you see, like, pregnancy or motherhood or anything like that.
其实呢，
Actually,
我应该修正一下之前的说法，我其实是倾向于不要孩子的。
I should amend my statement to say that actually I lean towards no kids.
因为我倾向于不要孩子，所以也有一些别的担忧。
There are a different set of worries that I have because I lean towards no kids.
其中一个是你同事提到的那个。
One is the one that your coworker mentioned.
一旦有了孩子，朋友圈子多多少少会变，因为生活重心会更多围绕孩子转。
Once you have a kid, then your friend group tends to change a bit because your life is a little more revolved around that child.
所以，可能就不太常跟没孩子的人见面了。
So, you know, maybe you don't see people without kids as often.
这算是我挺在意的一点。
That's, like, kind of a worry.
我一想到这个，就觉得头疼。
I'm like, oh, shoot.
那如果最后大家都生孩子了呢？
Well, what if everyone does end up having kids?
那谁还陪我玩啊？
And then who will hang out with me?
大概只能陪孩子了。
I guess the kids.
但我觉得看到身边的人生孩子，还不足以改变我的想法，毕竟现在还太早了。
But I don't think seeing people around me have kids necessarily changes my stance yet Because right now, it's still very early stages.
其中一个主要原因是我还不想让自己的生活按下一个暂停键。
One of the big reasons actually is because I don't feel ready to put my life on a certain level of pause yet.
我觉得自己还有很多目标，还有很多想完成的事。
Like, feel like I still have goals or things that I want to accomplish.
其实我刚跟别人聊过这个事。
And so I actually was talking to someone about this.
我说，如果我们能活到二月，我敢打赌到一月的时候，我就准备好要孩子了。
I was like, if we could live till February, I'm sure by January, I would be ready to have a kid.
就像，你知道的，我不确定我是不是在几年内就能准备好，之类的。
Like, you know, I don't know if I would be ready by, like, in a couple years or something like that.
对。
Yeah.
所以我觉得，随着我看到越来越多的人有了孩子，我会看到他们做了什么样的牺牲，做出了什么样的调整，以及哪些是可行的，哪些是不可行的。
So I think as I see more and more people have kids as we progress and I see like what kind of sacrifices are made, what kind of adaptations are made, and, like, what is possible and what isn't possible.
我想只有亲眼看到这些之后，我才会更倾向于做出某种决定吧。
I think only after seeing that will I potentially have more of a sway to either side?
我觉得这完全合理。
I think that's super fair.
也就是说，我们这一期聊了很多关于为人父母是一项巨大责任的话题。
I mean, we've talked a lot this episode about how it's a huge responsibility to undertake parenthood.
虽然我们看到的那些例子都是父母玩得很开心、很放松，但我们也知道，你必须做出很多牺牲。
And while the examples that we have seen are parents having a good time, parents being chill, we also know that there are so many different sacrifices that you have to make.
所以我觉得，在做出这样重大的人生决定前想先缓一缓，是非常合理的。
So I think it's super fair to want to pause on making such a big life decision.
而且作为女性，我们竟然被逼着在这么年轻的时候就得做这种决定，这真的很不公平。
And it's also just fucked up that as women, we feel pressured to make these decisions so much younger.
我懂。
I know.
我觉得这才是最让人难受的地方。
I feel like that's the worst part.
不过情况确实在慢慢变好。
It is getting better though.
比如以前像安妮·海瑟薇、奥普拉·温弗瑞、伊丽莎白·奥尔森那会儿……
Like, when it was like Anne Hathaway, Opry Plaza, Elizabeth Olsen?
她们现在都怀孕了，而且年龄都算偏大的了。
They're like all pregnant right now and they're all the slightly older side.
大家也开始觉得，高龄怀孕其实越来越能接受，也变得可行和可控了。
People are like, Oh my god, older pregnancies are getting more and more acceptable as well as manageable and possible.
确实如此。
That's true.
现在越来越多科技公司为女性提供冷冻卵子的资助，或者至少让我们有了冷冻卵子或胚胎的选择，我觉得这让人更有希望，但这种可能性终究不像男性那种随心所欲当父母的自在。
And with more and more tech companies sponsoring women freezing their eggs or just the possibility that we can freeze our eggs or embryos if we wanted to, I feel it is more hopeful, but it's just not like that male bliss of
能随时决定
being able to
想什么时候当父母就什么时候当。
choose whatever you want to be a parent.
我知道，确实如此。
I know, yeah.
我觉得这还是另一个问题。
And I think that's another thing.
我内心其实很矛盾，因为我知道现在自己还没准备好。
I have complicated feelings because I'm like, well, I know I'm not ready now.
对。
Mhmm.
但万一我五十岁的时候突然觉得，其实我准备好了，真想试试看呢？
But, like, what if I turn 50 and I'm like, actually, I am ready to like, I do wanna try that out.
没错。
Right.
但你现在都五十岁了。
But then it's just like, well, you're 50 now.
这太难了。
It's, like, way too hard.
风险太高了，对身体负担也大，诸如此类的问题。
The risks are high and it's a toll on your body and, you know, like, all those kinds of things.
我还在担心，现在的自己会不会毁了未来的自己？
I think there's also that fear of, like, oh, what if current me is, like, fucking it up for future me?
真让人头疼。
Damn.
要是能跟未来的自己聊聊就好了。
If only you could talk to her.
我知道。
I know.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
这真不容易。
It's not easy.
而且我觉得，我们整个对话都挺乐观积极的。
And I think we've been very, like, hopeful and optimistic this whole episode.
但与此同时，我们这一代人不想生孩子，或者至少要拖到三十九四十岁才做决定，这种情况越来越普遍了。
But at the same time, I think it's more and more common for people in our generation to not wanna have kids or at the very least wait until late thirties or early forties to even make that decision.
所以好处是，我们将来会有更多例子可参考，对吧？
So the good thing is I think we'll just have more examples, right?
随着我们年纪增长，就能看到为人父母可能是什么样子，也可能是什么样子。
Like as we age, so you'll be able to see like parenthood could look like this or parenthood can look like that.
等你年纪大一点，或许就能做出更明智的决定了。
And then you can maybe make like a more informed decision when you're older.
对。
Yeah.
希望我能成为这方面的一个好例子。
And hopefully for me, I would be a good example of that.
不过我相信你也会的。
But I'm sure you will be.
我也没法跟未来的自己对话，所以我也说不准。
I can't talk to future me as well, so I have no idea.
嘿。
Hey.
而且如果我不生孩子，我还可以帮忙带孩子。
And the good part is if I don't have kids, I can always help babysit.
对。
Yeah.
这点我倒是不介意。
For that, I don't mind.
我们知道保姆的薪水有多高了。
We know how much nannies make.
这可是一笔不小的数目。
Not a small amount.
非常感谢智秀今天跟我聊了聊我们对为人父母和带孩子的感受。
Well, thank you so much, Jisoo, for chatting with me about our feelings about parenthood and babies.
我觉得到了这个年纪，这些事情自然而然就会浮现在脑海。
I feel like it's just something that naturally comes to the forefront of our minds around these ages.
所以，咱们一起聊聊那些担忧和期待，还挺有意思的。
So it was fun to dissect some of our worries and excitements.
各位听众朋友，如果你对为人父母或者生孩子有什么想法，欢迎随时跟我们分享。
And for our listeners out there, if you have any thoughts that you wanted to share about parenthood or having babies, feel free to share with us.
我们在社交媒体上的账号是 eatyourcrustpod，邮箱是 eatyourcrustpod@gmail.com。
We have social media at eatyourcrustpod, and we also have email, eatyourcrustpodgmail dot com.
如果想听我们的其他期节目，别忘了在 Spotify、Apple Podcasts 或者你常用的播客平台上关注我们。
And if you'd like to catch our other episodes, then don't forget to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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