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嗨。
Hi.
欢迎回到eatyourcrustpodcast。
Welcome back to eatyourcrustpodcast.
我是Jisoo。
I'm Jisoo.
我是Crystal。
And I'm Crystal.
我们好久没聊职业话题了。
So we haven't done a career episode in a while.
我们觉得坐下来聊聊每个职场都会发生、但可能不常被讨论的事情会很有趣，那就是职场八卦。
We thought it would be fun to sit down and talk about something that happens in every workplace, but maybe isn't always discussed, which is workplace drama.
说到职场八卦，我们指的不是那些改变人生、毁掉职业生涯的大事，而是那些发生在小瞬间的琐碎事，那些擦肩而过的小事，最后却莫名其妙被传开了。
When we talk about workplace drama, we're not necessarily talking about huge life altering career ending events that happen, but more so drama that happens maybe in the small moments, petty events that happen in passing that somehow ends up getting talked about.
那我们就开始吧。
So let's start this off.
Crystal，你能想到什么职场上的小摩擦吗？
Crystal, is there any petty workplace drama that you can think of?
其实，有的。
Actually, yeah.
我觉得确实有一些小摩擦，可以这么说吧。
I think there's some drama, I guess we could call it.
但某种程度上，它其实可能更偏向积极的一面。
But it's actually more positive maybe in a way.
表面是消极的，但结果却是积极的。
Negative, but positive result.
有时候升职真的挺难的。
Sometimes it's hard to get a promo.
我其实跟别人一起抱怨过，说现在比以前难多了。
I've actually bonded with people kind of complaining about, oh, it's so much harder now than it used to be.
不知道，十年前或者什么时候吧。
I don't know, ten years ago or whatever.
这有点负面，因为升职确实更难了。
It's a bit negative because it can be harder to get a promo.
很多公司现在都在节省开支。
A lot of companies are kind of in more of a saving mode.
但这也挺好的，因为我和另一个人因此有了共同话题。
But then it's kind of nice because me and this other person bond over that.
你知道，当你吐槽公司或某个人时，你们反而会因为这样而更亲近。
You know, when you shit talk a company or a person or whatever, then you get closer because of that.
所以我觉得这算是我经历过的一些小摩擦吧。
So I feel like that's maybe a piece of drama that has happened before to me.
哦。
Oh.
我想我也经历过类似的事情。
I think I've experienced something similar too.
有时候你和同事因为这事产生共鸣，但有时候你是和比你资历深的人产生共鸣，他们要么经历过你现在的处境，要么在公司待得更久。
And sometimes you're bonding over it with a peer, but other times you're bonding over it with someone who is either more senior than you and has been in your exact spot before or has been at the company longer.
所以有时候，当那个同事打开信息闸门，比如告诉你，哦，你知道，几年前发生过这样的事，或者这个人不太会推动员工晋升，那我觉得这其实也挺有参考价值的。
So then sometimes when that coworker opens the floodgates of information of like, oh, you know, a couple years ago, this happened or like this person tends to not push their employees for promo, then I think it can also be like kind of informative in a way.
然后我想，一旦你知道了更多，这其实是好事也是坏事，因为一方面你会想，好吧，现在我知道这不只是我的问题。
And then I guess like once you know better, it's like a good and bad thing because on one hand you're like, okay, now I know that it's not just me.
这不完全是我的问题。
It's not necessarily fully a me problem.
对。
Right.
但另一方面你会想，哦，但这意味着需要改变什么吗？
But then on the other hand you're like, oh, but does this mean that something needs to change?
这就像一半一半，是让人松口气还是让人沮丧。
It's like a fifty fifty on whether it's relieving or discouraging.
我觉得另一种类似的职场八卦是，当工作中有个类似反派角色的时候。
I think another similarly bonding piece of workplace drama could be when there's almost like an antagonist at work.
我觉得工作中有一个反派角色可以有很多种情况。
I think having an antagonist at work can be a lot of things.
不一定非得是什么邪恶的存在，但有时候可能是个要求很多的利益相关方，或者一个很严格的老板，有时候甚至可能是第三方。
It doesn't necessarily have to be like a evil being or something, but sometimes it can be a demanding stakeholder, a strict boss, sometimes even like a third party.
比如母公司真的在催这个，或者某个第三方公司急需这些东西，要得很急。
A parent company is really asking for this or like a third company really needs this stuff ASAP.
对。
Mhmm.
然后我觉得在那些时刻，所有受这个影响的人真的会特别团结。
And then I think in those moments, everyone who is subject to this is like really in a bonding moment.
就像你们是复仇者联盟，在打某种怪兽一样。
It's like you're the Avengers fighting some sort of monster or something.
天哪，没错。
Oh my god, yes.
其实我也见过这种情况，之前有个新总监从别的公司加入我提到的这家公司。
Actually I've totally seen this too before where a new director joined from a different company to this company that I'm speaking of.
他有点在搅动局面。
He was kind of shaking things up a bit.
这几乎让所有人都感到不爽。
And it rubbed almost everyone the wrong way.
然后大概两三年后，所有人都走了。
And then in like two, three years, everyone left.
天哪。
Holy.
是啊。
Yeah.
说实话，新高管加入的时候，我觉得会引发很多紧张气氛。
Honestly, when like a new exec joins, I feel like it causes a lot of tension.
高管想证明自己，而下面的人就会想，这到底在搞什么鬼？
The exec is trying to prove themselves and then the people under are like, what the fuck is happening?
对。
Yeah.
我觉得这挺难的。
I feel like it's tough.
现在回想起来，我觉得新加入的那个人肯定也挺难受的。
Thinking back now, I'm like, you know, I'm sure it was tough on the the new person joining as well.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但那次的情况就是没处理好。
But it in that case, it just didn't work out.
大家互相配合不来，所以最好还是各走各的。
No one was working well with each other, so it was just best that everyone kinda split.
你觉得
Do you
当有人不喜欢一个高管，和不喜欢一个平级同事，这两种情况下的氛围会不一样吗？
think the vibes are different between when someone doesn't like a exec versus when someone doesn't like a coworker that's maybe more on like a peer level?
哦，我不太确定，因为我觉得我还没真正经历过那种特别明显的情况。
Oh, I'm not super sure because I think I haven't truly experiencedobserved a case like this where it was like obvious.
我觉得幸运的是，如果真有这种情况，我身边的人都能保持专业态度。
I feel like luckily if this has been a case, the people around me are able to like keep it professional.
但我想可能两边都有利弊吧。
But I would imagine that it's probably just pros and cons on both sides.
因为如果高管不喜欢某个人，那这个人就很难有任何突出的表现，甚至可能连工作上的表扬都得不到。
Because like, if an exec doesn't like someone, then they're gonna have trouble standing out in any way or even maybe getting praise for their work.
但如果是不喜欢同事的话，可能情况也差不多。
But then if it's like a peer, maybe it's similar.
他们只是没法经常合作，然后在同事之间也得不到认可，这其实也挺难受的。
They just don't get to collaborate as much, and then they don't get shout outs on the peer level, which is also kind of rough.
确实。
That's true.
不过，听你讲这些故事，我心里想，天哪。
Although, I'm like hearing your stories, and I'm like, damn.
可能我的职场经历比你的要糟糕得多。
Maybe my workplace experience has been significantly less wholesome than yours.
因为我见过很多次同事之间互相看不顺眼的情况。
Because I've experienced people not liking another coworker many times.
哦。
Oh.
可能在小公司或者氛围比较特定的公司里会更明显一些。
Maybe it's a little bit more obvious at smaller companies, for example, or companies with a more specific vibe.
但我见过它在职业层面上的表现。
But I've seen it manifest in a professional sense.
比如，我觉得这个同事没有达到工作标准。
Like, I don't think this co worker is meeting workplace standards.
我也见过更个人层面的情况。
And I've also seen it in more personal levels as well.
比如，哦，这个人作为同事还行，但我们不会跟这个人一起吃午饭。
Like, oh, this person is fine as a co worker, but we're not gonna eat lunch with this person.
天哪。
Oh my god.
而且我总觉得这很有意思，尤其是当涉及到高管层面的时候。
And I always find it very interesting, especially when it comes to an exec level though.
对。
Yeah.
不知怎么的，感觉更正常
It somehow feels more normal
去不喜欢一个高管。
to like dislike an exec.
我觉得高管或者职位比较高的人，有很多自上而下的任务和计划，他们得传达给下面的人，或者他们经常和其他高管有矛盾。
I think executives or people in, like, higher positions have a lot of tops down things and initiatives that they have to, like, disseminate to their to their people, or they are constantly in tension with other executives.
我觉得这基本上就是这个职位的本质。
That's just, like, the nature of the position, I think.
确实。
True.
所以他们几乎像是穿上了盔甲，因为他们知道自己是个高管，应该能承受这些。
So it's almost like they're armored up because they know they're an exec and they're supposed to be able to take those things.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但在同事或平级之间，感觉就特别私人了。
But it feels way more personal on, like, a coworker or, like, peer level.
其实我完全懂你的意思。
Actually, I totally get what you're saying.
而且你刚才说的时候，我意识到我确实见过一些紧张关系，或者，怎么说呢，关系不太好的情况。
And as you were explaining this, I realized that I I have kind of seen some tension or maybe, like, you know, not the best of friends situations.
但我完全同意，基层的人更容易讨厌他们的高管。
But I totally agree that it's easier for, like, you know, the ground level people to kind of hate on their exec more.
这可能有点跑题，但我觉得，不知道这么说对不对，就是在大家都拿工资的工作环境里，讨厌老板更容易也更安全，因为那就像，哦，对，这个人是我老板。
This might be a little off topic, but I feel like it's almost, I don't know if these are the right words, but like easier and or safer in a work environment where everyone's getting paid because then it's just like, oh, yeah, like this person's my boss.
所以，你知道，他们必须这么做，但我不喜欢他们这么做。
So, you know, they have to do this, but I don't like it that they're doing this.
对。
Yeah.
或者我不喜欢
Or I don't like
他们处理这件事的方式。
the way they're approaching this.
但我在想，如果跟那些没什么报酬的事情比，比如志愿活动，或者就是朋友一起合作做点什么，那感觉就完全不一样了，因为你会觉得，我不想跟这个人闹得不愉快。
But then I'm just thinking like in comparison to something that's less paid, if it were, for example, a volunteer opportunity or even just like friends working together to accomplish something, then it's so different because you're like, I don't want to not like this person.
因为那更私人化，毕竟我们不只是为了钱去做事。
Because it's so much more personal since we're not just like getting paid to do something.
对。
Right.
你在工作场所就是靠那份工资过活的。
You're like depending on that paycheck at the workplace.
是的。
Yeah.
我忍了，因为这是工作，你懂的。
I'll take it because it's work, know.
说到底，这就是工作。
At the end of the day, it's work.
我知道有时候人们为了把事情办成，不得不做一些事情。
And I know people just have to kind of do things to get things done sometimes.
对。
Right.
哥们，我想到一件事，就是你跟同事一起吐槽某个高管的时候，感觉特别自然。
Dude, one thing that comes to mind is when you, like, have talked shit about an exec or something with a coworker, and it just feels natural.
对吧？
Right?
后来你转过身，看到你的朋友兼同事，正在拍那个人的马屁。
Later, you, like, turn around and see your friend slash coworker, like Buttering them up.
我不想用“拍马屁”这个词，但，是的，就是在讨好同一个人。
I don't wanna use the word brown nosing, but, yeah, like, buttering up that same person.
你就会想，等等。
You're like, wait.
搞什么鬼？
What the fuck?
然后你意识到，反正我们都需要拿工资。
And then you realize, we all need to get paid anyway.
但我觉得你说得对。
But I think you're right.
那种心态很重要，就是归根结底，这是我们的工作。
That mindset of, okay, at the end of the day, this is our employment is very important.
但我年轻的时候，工作中那些强势的性格，或者激烈的对话，或者我看到的那些职场紧张气氛，真的会让我情绪上受影响。
But when I was younger, I think strong personalities at work or maybe charged, intense conversations or some of this tension that I was seeing at the workplace would really emotionally affect me.
不一定是我收到了不好的反馈，比如说，我团队的工作或者我团队里某个人做的事被质疑了，或者我参加的会议里有让人紧张的对话，这类事情，我都会带回家。
It didn't necessarily have to be like bad feedback I was getting, but say for example, the work of my team or someone on my team was in contention or there was like stressful conversations in meetings that I was in, that kind of stuff, I would take home with me.
我觉得这要么让我在个人生活中也那样表现，要么就是整晚都在想这件事。
I think it would either make me act like that in my personal life or I would just like keep thinking about it all night.
我觉得这就像年轻、容易受影响、职位又低这些因素结合在一起。
I think it's like a combination of being young, impressionable, and junior.
所以你就会吸收周围发生的一切。
So you just like absorb everything happening around you.
对。
Yeah.
而且因为紧张或者压力大，工作时间也长。
Plus working long hours because of the tension or, like, feeling stressed about it.
但我最近刷到一个TikTok，看完就感叹，天哪。
But I watched a TikTok recently that was like, damn.
我以前真的特别在意工作上的事，后来有了孩子。
I really used to give a shit about things that happen at work, and then I have kids.
现在我就觉得，工作上的事其实都不算什么。
And now I'm like, oh, nothing at work actually matters.
对。
Yeah.
我正想说，我完全能理解。
Was gonna say, I think I can totally relate.
我们年轻的时候，总觉得那些事特别严重，其实没那么严重。
When we were younger, it just felt so much more serious than it was.
对。
Yeah.
而且几乎感觉像是，天哪，父母在吵架之类的。
And it almost felt like, oh my god, the parents are fighting or something.
如果有什么紧张气氛，尤其是和上级之间。
If there's tension in the in any way with especially with, like, higher ups.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后你就会觉得，我不知道该怎么办。
And then you're just like, I don't know what to do with myself.
但后来，是啊。
But then, like yeah.
随着时间推移，现在我们在这些工作环境中更自在、更有经验了，就会觉得，哦，对。
As time has gone on and now we're more comfortable or experienced in these working environments, it's kinda like, oh, yeah.
这完全正常。
This is, like, totally normal.
这本身就是一种本事，能看出来然后不当回事。
That in itself is, a skill to be able to see it and just be, like, whatever.
但我觉得当你是当事人时，别人能化解工作里的紧张对话，我真的很佩服。
But I think when you're a more involved party, the ability of people to diffuse, like, tense conversations at work, I really admire.
特别是当你跟一个说话比较冲或者显得有点凶的人交流时，有些人能站出来把气氛变成玩笑，或者巧妙地指出问题，又不让场面尴尬。
Especially when you're talking to someone who maybe words things in, like, a stronger way or can come off more aggressive, certain people can step up and turn that into a joke or subtly call out that behavior without making it weird.
我就想，天哪，你该去政府或者什么地方工作。
And I'm like, damn, you need to work for like the government or something.
哥们，说得太对了。
Dude, that's so true.
有些人就是特别擅长处理各种情况，或者说掌控气氛。
Like some people are just masters at handling situations or the vibes I guess.
他们是气氛大师。
They're vibe handlers.
而且我觉得说实话，紧张的情况，甚至尴尬的情况，任何偏离常态的事情，其实都特别容易发生。
And I feel like honestly tense situations or just like even awkward situations, anything that kind of deviates from the norm are just so normal to occur.
这就是职场政治。
And that's like workplace politics.
对，没错。
Oh true.
现在想想，我确实遇到过类似的情况。
Like now that I think about it I have experienced situations.
就像你提到的，可能你和某个人在抱怨某个上级，然后后来你看到他们和那个上级聊得很开心，关系很好。
Like the one you mentioned where maybe you and someone are complaining about a higher up and then later you see them chatting and all on good terms with that higher up.
我当时就想，天哪，我完全经历过那种情况，我就是那个后来和上级聊天的人。
And I was like oh my god I think I've totally been in that position where I'm the one talking with the higher up later.
然后会有点内疚感，我会想，唉，我知道这个人对我的同事朋友很严厉，但你知道，我还是得保持专业，维持好的氛围。
And then there's almost a feeling of guilt a bit where I'm like, Ugh, I know this person was hard on my coworker friend but, you know, I still gotta keep up a professional and, like, good vibe, essentially.
对。
Right.
说实话，我觉得这没什么不对的。
And honestly, I feel like there's nothing wrong with that.
就是看着它现场发生，真的挺有意思的，你懂吧？
It's just so funny to, like, watch it occur live, you know?
对。
Yeah.
不过我还是觉得好像不能背叛我的盟友。
It almost feels like I can't betray my alliance though.
说实话，现实是每个人都会这么做。
Honestly though, the reality is that everyone does it.
我其实是从反方向想的。
I actually think about it in a backwards way.
大家在工作中总是表现得很友好，但真正的力量来自于了解幕后的信息。
People are always playing nice at work, But the true power comes from knowing the behind the scenes info.
比如谁其实不喜欢这个人，或者谁几周前有过一次紧张的会议。
Who actually doesn't like this person or who had a tense meeting a couple weeks ago.
那种信息，可不是随便就能碰到的。
That kind of info, you don't just stumble upon.
别人告诉你，是因为他们喜欢你或者信任你。
People tell you because they like you or they trust you.
对。
Right.
所以，能注意到这些事情本身就是一种本事。
So there's like power in being able to even notice these things.
是的。
Yeah.
其实，我觉得特别有意思的是，我合作过的一些团队，大家彼此之间都很融洽。
Actually, was really interesting though is that I have worked with groups where everyone is chill with each other.
整体氛围很好。
Overall the mood is good.
但有时候，当我们不得不讨论那些特别具体的工作细节时，就会遇到一些需要解决的问题和麻烦。
But then sometimes when we have to talk about like the nitty gritty work stuff, there are just issues, troubles that we're trying to solve.
而且有时候，问题甚至不是出在我们身上。
And sometimes it's not even our fault.
就像是有来自其他利益相关者或某些高层的阻碍，让我们这些一线人员很难绕过去。
It's like there's blockers from other stakeholders or certain higher ups that makes it hard for us as like on the ground people kind of to get around.
然后这时候气氛就变得紧张了，你懂吧？
And then that's when it becomes tense, you know?
但并不是说我们彼此不喜欢，而是有这个问题，我们现在真的很难解决。
But then it's not that we don't like each other, it's that there's this issue and we just can't really, it's really hard to solve right now.
所以大家就都沉默了。
So then it like gets all quiet.
哇。
Woah.
这个说法不错。
That's a good one.
就像是你和同事关系太近，反而没法像同事一样合作了。
Like when you become too close to your coworkers to be able to be coworkers together.
或者是因为平时气氛很好，遇到气氛不太好的情况时，处理起来就特别别扭。
Or it's like because the vibe is normally good, having to navigate slightly less good vibes situations makes it really weird.
对。
Yeah.
比如比较沉重的话题，或者对。
Like heavier topics or Right.
那些我们尽量回避不谈的事情，因为你知道，这不是谁的错，但我们必须得解决。
Things that we're like trying to avoid talking about because it's like, okay, I know it's no one's fault, but like, we need to figure this out.
那确实也挺棘手的。
That's also really challenging too.
感觉我开过这样的会，就是我们有30分钟来想出一个解决方案或者下一步，好继续推进。
Like, feel like I've been in meetings where it's like, okay, we have 30 to come up with a solution slash next step so that we could move on.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但因为大家都客客气气的，聊些有的没的，真正要紧的细节都留到会议最后四分钟才说。
But because everyone is playing nice and making like small talk and stuff, we leave the really nitty gritty conversation for the last like four minutes of the meeting.
我就想，天哪，我们真的花了二十五分钟聊你家孩子。
I'm like, damn, we really talked about your kids for like twenty five minutes.
天哪，他们在拖延时间。
Dude, they're stalling.
对。
Yeah.
那你有没有遇到过那种情况，就是有点紧张，尴尬的沉默，可能有人说了点什么，然后大家都安静下来，都在想刚才说的话。
And then do you get the whole thing where it's like some tension, awkward silence, maybe someone says something just putting it out there and then everyone's just like quiet and like thinking about what was said.
总得有人打破沉默，才能继续下去。
Someone has to break the silence to move on.
大家都缩回自己的壳里，好像在想，这个对话让我很不舒服。
Everyone retreats back into their turtle shell like, I'm uncomfortable in this conversation.
说实话，回头想想还挺好笑的，但当时确实有点尴尬，心里想，天哪，希望有人能站出来说句话，提个解决方案。
It's honestly funny reflecting back, but in the moment, it's definitely a little awkward like, Oh God, hopefully someone can speak up and offer a solution.
我真的很佩服那些能在“耶，我们都是朋友，我们互相喜欢”和“但说到底，我们是同事，所以必须得干点正事”之间自如切换的人。
I mean, I just admire people who can weave back and forth between the like, Yay, we're all friends here and we like each other.
但说到底，我们是同事，所以必须得干点正事。
But at the end of the day, we're coworkers, so we have to get something done.
能在两者之间切换，这本身就是一种本事。
Toggling that is also a skill in itself.
确实。
True.
我觉得以前有过一段时间，我以为可以完全不经历那些难搞的对话就把工作做完。
I think there was a time where I thought, maybe I can just go through work without ever having difficult conversations.
但那完全是错的。
But that is totally wrong.
就算你在会议上不是主角，也不是主要贡献者，你还是会遇到一些尴尬的时刻，以及稍微紧张一些的情况。
Even if you maybe aren't the main subject or one of the top contributors in a meeting, you're still gonna experience some awkward times and slightly more intense situations.
对，确实。
Yeah, true.
但就像你之前说的，我觉得即使是这些奇怪的时刻或者难搞的对话，也不一定就是坏事。
But kind of like how you mentioned before, I feel like even these weird times or hard conversations are not even necessarily bad.
它们更像是让人成长的时刻，你懂吧？
They're kind of like building moments, you know?
有时候，如果你能把局面变成共同吐槽的对象，然后和同事因为讨厌这个局面而拉近关系，那也挺好的。
Sometimes, if you're able to turn the situation into the op and then bond with your coworker overhating the situation True.
这也可以成为一种团队建设的时刻。
It can also be like a team building moment as well.
有时候复杂的情况是当你们不在同一个团队时，你代表一方，对方代表另一方，就像在互相争斗一样。
Sometimes where it gets complicated is maybe when you're not on the same team so then you're the representative of the forces like fighting each other.
天哪。
Oh god.
然后你会说，这不是我们的事。
And you're like, it's not us.
不是你的问题。
It's not you.
也不是我的问题。
It's not me.
是上面那些人的问题。
It's those people up there.
抱歉。
Sorry.
总得有人背锅。
The finger always has to be pointed somewhere.
你懂吧？
Know?
抛开刚才的紧张对话不谈，我有个挺有意思的职场八卦话题，就是当某个人有了某种名声。
Tense conversation aside, I have a kind of fun workplace drama topic, which is when someone has a reputation.
我觉得这可以是很多种情况。
I think this can be a multitude of things.
我在努力回想我听说过的所有职场名声。
I'm, like, trying to think back of all the workplace reputations that I've heard of.
其中一种当然是专业上的难搞名声。
One is, of course, a difficult reputation in a professional sense.
但有时候，这个名声就是某个人多年前做的一件事，没人会忘记。
But sometimes the reputation is one thing this one person did years ago that no one will ever forget.
新同事一进公司，这件事就总会被提起来。
It'll always get brought up to new people when they join the company.
哦，你知道某某人做过这件事吗？
Oh, did you know so and so did this?
我
I
觉得我还没遇到过那种情况，但我完全能想象得到。
think I haven't experienced that one yet, but I can totally imagine it happening.
其实，现在想想，我脑子里能想到的名声大多是比较有趣或者正面的。
Actually, right now, just top of mind, the reputations that I can think of are mostly more funny or positive.
某某人是下班后喝酒的首选对象。
So and so is the person to go to for after work drinks.
然后我想我之前也提过，就是我在团队里不是个早起的人。
And then I guess one that I've talked about before is like I am not a morning person on my team.
我觉得有意思的是，当一个人有名声或者因为某件事出名时，你可以选择要么顺着它，要么不太理会它，或者干脆忽略它。
Think it's interesting too because when there's reputations or just something that someone's known for you can choose to either lean into it or disregard it more or ignore it more.
我想其中一个就是我也是团队里最年轻的，所以可能在某些方面我最有活力。
I guess one is that I'm also the youngest person on the team so maybe I'm the most energetic in certain ways.
对。
Yeah.
有一次我们去拉斯维加斯参加一个大型会议。
So one time we were traveling to Vegas for, like, a big conference.
我开玩笑地在我们的群聊里发了一条消息。
I jokingly sent in our group message.
我说，我要是拿着杯肥星期二饮料出现在主题演讲上，会不会不合适？
I was like, is it inappropriate if I show up to our keynote with a fat Tuesday?
因为我们在拉斯维加斯。
Because we're in Vegas.
那太搞笑了。
That's hella funny.
所以
So
那一刻，我决定就顺着这个梗来。
in that moment, I had chosen to kinda lean into it.
一开始，因为时间还早，大家都有点震惊。
And I think at first, because it was really early, everyone was a little shocked.
他们就说，等等，什么？
They're like, wait, what?
然后有人明白了，就说，也许你该去找销售团队。
And then someone was like they understood, so they're like, maybe you should find the sales team.
这个不错。
That's a good one.
我觉得，能掌控自己的名声，真的能让气氛变得很好。
Being able to own your reputation, I feel like can make it really high vibes.
对。
Yeah.
而且这样也能让你在某种程度上掌控局面。
And then it also kinda puts you in control of the situation a little bit.
嗯，我想到的另一个名声是那些在公司活动上喝得有点多的人，尤其是节日派对那种场合。
Well, I guess the other reputation that comes to mind is people who have gotten maybe like a little too tipsy at one of the work events or especially like holiday party stuff.
你懂吧？
Know?
就像你在节日派对上做了一次什么事，没人会忘记。
Like you do something once at a holiday party, no one forgets.
而且每年他们宣布节日派对的时候，这件事都会被提起来。
And it's brought up annually every time they announce the holiday party.
等等。
Wait.
那太搞笑了。
That's so funny.
所以他们既是派对上的活跃分子，又有一件大家永远忘不了的事。
So they're like life of the party and also this one thing that happened that everyone must never forget.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
这种事情特别有料。
And that kind of stuff is so juicy.
我觉得就算你错过了节日聚会，消息还是会传开的。
I feel like even if you miss the holiday party, the news still gets around.
那感觉就像你也在场一样。
Then it's almost like you were there.
我也见过这种情况，就是你会被告知要避开某人，因为他们可能会拉你一起喝烈酒。
I have seen this as well where it's like, you should know to avoid so and so because they might try to rope you into shots.
至少对我来说，我们团队的人都差不多，都是那种‘哦，我不太想喝烈酒’的态度。
I think for my team at least, we're all kind of, oh yeah, I'm not really trying to take shots.
我喝一杯红酒就好。
I'll have a glass of wine.
其实我可能是我们团队里喝得最凶的一个。
I'm actually probably the heaviest drinker on my team.
所以我可能会一直手里拿着杯子走来走去。
So maybe I'll be walking around with a cup in my hand all the time.
但其他大多数人都会更克制、更规矩。
But most other people are much more controlled and tame.
他们会说，我喝一杯红酒就够了。
They're like, I'll enjoy a glass of wine and call it at that.
所以我们都应该避开这个人，因为我们知道他们会试图
So we should all avoid this person because we know that they'll try to
让我们所有人都喝烈酒。
get us all to take shots.
天哪。
Oh, god.
不过，有这样的名声也挺有意思的，比如煽风点火的名声。
That's like a fun reputation to have though, like the instigator reputation.
那可比像“这个人说了些疯狂的话”要好得多。
That's far better than like, Oh, this person was saying some crazy
去年在假日派对上说了些疯话。
shit at the holiday party last year.
那倒是真的。
That is true.
我觉得可能是因为我的团队挺正能量的。
I think maybe because my team is pretty wholesome.
所以我在现在这个地方的经历整体上还是挺正能量的。
So my experiences with my current place is pretty wholesome overall.
你觉得这是你更喜欢的吗？
Do you think that's what you prefer?
就是待在一个更正能量、没什么勾心斗角的职场环境里？
To be in, like, a more wholesome, I guess, drama free workplace environment?
还是说你有时候会想要、渴望或者享受那种勾心斗角？
Or do you kind of want slash crave slash enjoy the drama sometimes?
哎呀，哥们。
Oh, dude.
我尽量让自己远离那些是非。
I'm trying to be as drama free as possible.
其实吧，说不定工作里有很多勾心斗角，但我完全没察觉。
For all I know, actually, there's a ton of drama going on at work, but I'm just so clueless to it.
因为我在工作上有点装糊涂。
Because I kind of play aloof at work.
我觉得这样对我也有好处，不掺和那些事，我就能专心干活，把事情做完。
Think it just helps me too when I'm not, one involved in drama because then I can focus and actually like get stuff done kind of.
我觉得有时候要是深陷是非里，可能会引起一些情绪，比如害怕，或者对某些话题甚至某些人感到紧张和焦虑。
I feel like sometimes if you're really in the weeds of drama, maybe it can stir up some feelings such as fear or, you know like tension or anxiety around certain subjects or maybe even people.
糊涂一点对我有好处。
Being more clueless is helpful for me.
不过我还是觉得听听那些关系啊、动态啊挺有意思的，尤其是高层之间的那些。
But I do think it's still really interesting to hear about like certain, I guess like relationships or dynamics around some, especially within, within like the higher ups.
因为有时候知道这些确实有用。
Cause sometimes that is actually good to know.
对吧？
Right?
因为就像，嘿，如果你要跟这个高层一起工作，这就是他们喜欢的东西。
Because it's like, hey, if you're going to be working with this higher up, this is kind of the stuff that they like.
确保别惹他们不高兴之类的。
Make sure you don't rub them the wrong way or something like that.
或者，你知道，这个高层喜欢你上面的那个高层。
Or, you know, this higher up likes your higher up.
所以这是个好联系人，或者可以找他们帮忙处理各种跨部门的事情。
So it's a good contact to have or someone to reach out to for whatever cross function stuff.
但说到真正参与那些事，我在这方面真是心不在焉。
But yeah, in terms of actually being involved with stuff, I am very head in the clouds there.
对，我觉得某种程度上，这就像个潘多拉盒子，当你刚加入一家新公司，或者甚至刚开始工作时，你会想，哇，这太疯狂了。
Yeah, I guess to an extent, it is very much a Pandora's box where when you first join a new company or even just first start working, you're like, woah, this is crazy.
就像我们在这里上班一样。
Like we're employed here.
这真是太棒了，各位。
This is great guys.
然后我觉得，一旦你听到几段不同的八卦，你就会想，哦，好吧。
And then I think once you hear a handful of different pieces of gossip, you're like, oh, okay.
表面之下其实有些事儿在发生。
There's some shit happening under the surface.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得最好的情况是，这些八卦有趣、轻松、带点劲爆，能让工作变得有意思，还能帮你理解一些事情。
I think best case scenario, it's fun, light, juicy, kind of keeps things interesting at work and helps contextualize things for you.
但最坏的情况是，有时候会让你变得特别愤世嫉俗。
But worst case scenario, it can sometimes make you like really jaded.
对。
Yeah.
比如，这里的事情真是糟透了，让你提不起劲来。
Like, things are really fucking shitty here and make you unmotivated.
或者说实话，有时候情况真的很糟的时候，就会想，哦，我是不是该离开这里。对。
Or honestly, sometimes when it's really bad, it's like, oh, should I like leave this Yeah.
所以我觉得这确实是个很难把握的平衡。
So I guess it is kind of a hard balance to ride.
不过我觉得我同意你之前说的，就是如果公司比较小，或者他们真的想营造那种“我们是一家人”的氛围，那这种工作场所就更容易让人卷入或者看到那些八卦，因为我以前待过的公司里，有些地方我感受更深，可能也更容易被卷进去。
I think I can agree with what you said earlier though, where maybe if the company is a little smaller or they really try to play up the like oh we're a family kind of narrative then those are workplaces where it's easier to get caught up in or even just see the drama because there were companies in the past where I felt it more and I probably got caught up in the drama a little more too.
好吧，有一个特别好笑，我当时完全没意识到有很多，我不想说是裙带关系，但就是同事之间有很多联系，你知道吗？
Okay, one was really funny where I just didn't realize there was a lot of, I don't want to say nepotism, but There were just so many connections within the people at work, you know?
对。
Yeah.
这个人是那个人的老婆，或者这些人，他们在工作之前就是朋友了。
This person is this person's wife or these people are like, they were friends before working together as well.
一开始我完全没察觉，但后来随着越来越多的内幕被揭开，我就想，天哪，这就解释了为什么工作里会有那些互动模式。
And I was very clueless in the beginning, but then as more and more of this became uncovered, I was like, oh my god, that makes so much sense to, like, some of the dynamics around work.
对。
Yeah.
挺有意思的。
It was, like, juicy.
倒也不至于影响工作。
It didn't necessarily disrupt work.
嗯哼。
Uh-huh.
不过说实话，那时候我确实更容易被卷进去。
But yeah, I remember I was more caught up in things in that situation.
你会想，等等，你们都是一家人？
You're like, wait, you guys are all related?
真的假的。
No, literally.
我当时就想，
I was like,
天哪，这就说得通了。
oh my god, that makes so much sense.
好的。
Okay.
在最坏的情况下，可能有时候我会想，哦，好吧，这个人好像在这个特定领域没什么经验，比如设计之类的，因为我是做设计的。
In the worst case scenario, maybe there were times where I was like, oh, well, it doesn't seem like this person has that much experience in this particular, I don't know, design whatever like area since I work in design.
所以那一刻我注意到她缺乏经验，后来有人解释说，哦，这是某某人的妻子，那个高层人物的妻子，这是她想做、感兴趣并且有热情的角色。
So then in that moment like I noticed I guess this lack of experience and then when someone explained later like oh well this is like know so and so's wife like this really high up person's wife and this is like the role that she wants to do and is interested in doing and is passionate about.
然后我就想，哦，原来如此，这就说得通了，为什么结构是这样的。
And I was like oh you know like that makes so much sense why whatever the structure is, is.
对。
Yeah.
你会想，哦，难怪她这么不够格。
You're like, oh, that's why she's so underqualified.
对。
Yeah.
我不想那么说。
I didn't want to say it like that.
我们心里也是这么想的。
Were thinking it.
太搞笑了。
That's so funny.
回想起来，最劲爆的职场八卦，得算我高中在奶茶店打工那会儿。
If I think back to the juiciest workplace tea, it has to be when I used to work at a boba shop in high school.
天哪。
Oh my god.
而且那里
And there
简直戏太多了，兄弟。
was so much fucking drama, dude.
对。
And Yeah.
除了那些小打小闹的高中生八卦，比如谁喜欢谁，或者谁不喜欢某个同事。
Aside from the petty, like, high schooler drama of, oh, this person likes this person or this person doesn't like this one coworker.
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我在那儿工作的时候，我们的老板，就是奶茶店的店主，正在闹离婚，或者说正在办离婚。
At the time that I was working there, our bosses, like the owner of the boba shop, were straight up having a divorce or, like, going through divorce.
但我们刚被录用的时候，他们看起来关系还挺好的。
But when we were all hired, they had what it looked like to be a decent relationship.
所以我就记得这事儿特别劲爆。
So I just remember that being hella juicy.
就像，哇哦。
Like Woah.
我们都在电话里聊这事儿。
We were all on the phone talking about it.
消息传得跟野火一样快。
Like news is spreading like wildfire.
每次他们一进来，我们就会观察他们，然后说，天哪。
Anytime they came in, we would like observe them and show Oh my god.
再也没有比这更劲爆的事儿了。
And nothing has ever beat the juiciness of that.
哥们，这对一群高中生来说简直是完美的场景。
Dude, that is like the perfect situation for a bunch of high schoolers.
对。
Yeah.
因为你想啊，这肯定也让你每天都很期待去上班吧。
Because if you think about it, it probably got you all excited to go to work every day too.
比如，今天会看到什么好戏呢？
Like, what am I gonna see today?
然后大家就会时不时地有新八卦传出来。
And then people would have, like, new bits of tea, like, here and there.
只要有一个人知道了，很快所有人都知道了。
When one person knew, then soon after, like, all of us knew.
太疯狂了，哥们。
That's crazy, dude.
但我觉得，这也没办法避免。
But I mean, it's just inevitable.
我觉得爱打听几乎是人的天性。
I feel like it's almost human nature to be nosy.
对。
Yeah.
因为你想啊，就算不聊工作上的事，比如明星八卦什么的，也很容易一头扎进去，追着某些新闻或者事件看。
Because if you think about it, just, like, even outside of work stuff, you know, celeb gossip and things like that, it is so easy to just, like, go down a rabbit hole of these things and, like, follow certain news or happenings.
而且整个行业都是靠这个撑起来的。
And there's a whole business industry, you know, like, built off of that.
爱打听真的太自然了。
It's just, like, so natural to be nosy.
就是让事情变得有意思，变得好玩。
It just keeps things interesting, keeps things fun.
有时候我还挺感激那些挑起事端的人。
And sometimes I am grateful for the people that kind of stir up the drama.
然后我也很感激那些把八卦传得特别好的人。
And then I'm also grateful for the people that spread it really well.
我觉得跟那些比较正经的同事在一起的时候，突然有个八卦出来，大家就会说，你知道吗？
I feel like it's really funny when you're with more wholesome people at work, but then maybe something juicy comes up and then everyone's like, you know what?
我其实挺八卦的。
I am nosy.
你能告诉我
Can you tell me
发生了什么吗？
what happened?
这就是人的天性嘛，宝贝。
It's just human nature, baby.
他们就会说，我承认。
They're like, I'll admit it.
我特别想知道。
I'm dying to know.
不过有时候会有点过界的是，如果工作里发生了什么八卦，我们在聊，我觉得那算一回事。
The one thing that does sometimes toe the line though of acceptability is if something happened at work and it's juicy and we're like talking about it, I feel like that's one thing.
但有时候八卦是关于别人私生活的。
But sometimes the gossip is about people's personal lives.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
当我们像高中生一样在奶茶店八卦时很有趣，但当你三十多岁，真正在一家正经公司上班，之后还得和这些人一起工作，那就有点不一样了。
And it's funny when we're all high schoolers at a boba shop, but it's kind of different when you're like 30 plus actually employed at a real company and then you have to like work with these people after.
但不幸的是，关于别人私生活的八卦仍然是最劲爆的。
But unfortunately, people's personal life gossip is the juiciest gossip still.
所以我也说不准。
So I don't know.
我对这件事心情挺复杂的。
I have a mixed bag of feelings about it.
你怎么看？
What do you think?
对。
Yeah.
我觉得那时候可能才是真正考验信任或者忠诚的时候。
I feel like that is when you're maybe like trust and or loyalty is really tested.
哦。
Oh.
我以前遇到过这种情况，就是工作上的朋友跟我分享了一件私事，然后我就会觉得很有责任感，想着，好吧，这是人家跟我说的私事。
What I've experienced before is like a friend at work shares a personal thing with me, then I feel very responsible like, okay, this is a personal thing that they've shared with me.
我不会到处去说。
I'm not going to just go around and talk about it.
除非他们觉得舒服，或者他们已经跟其他某些人说了。
Unless they feel comfortable or they have like shared it with other certain other people.
对。
Right.
那样的话，我们就可以一起聊这件事。
That then we can all talk about it together.
因为在这种情况下，这更私密，你懂吗？
Because in this instant it was more personal, know?
就像那个茶背后的故事，是别人分享给我的。
Like there was the story behind the tea that was being shared with me.
所以我觉得，可能更多的是一种责任感吧。
So that's where I felt more, I guess responsibility.
我觉得我不应该到处去传播这个。
Like I shouldn't just be like spreading this.
对。
Yeah.
但也许故事的大概内容，大家多少都知道一些，这还挺有意思的。
But maybe like the headline of the story, people kind of know, which is fun.
但我不能是那个去传播细节的人。
But I can't be the one to spread, like, the details.
你明白我的意思吗？
Do know what mean?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
完全说得通。
Totally makes sense.
而且有时候你跟同事聊天，虽然你们都是同事，但你会进入“弗雷德模式”。
And plus sometimes when you're talking to a coworker, yes, you guys are both coworkers, but you go into Fred mode.
所以我觉得在弗雷德模式下分享的东西算是私密的。
So I feel like the stuff that's shared when you're in Fred mode is like private.
对。
Yeah.
但在同事模式下分享的东西，通常也是他们跟其他同事分享过的，或者你可能知道别人已经知道了。
But the stuff that's shared when you're in coworker mode is usually stuff that they've shared with other coworkers anyway, or like you might know that other people know already.
所以我觉得能划清这个界限，也是你自己处理这件事的方式。
So then I think being able to like draw that boundary too is your personal way of navigating it.
对。
Yeah.
而且我觉得从我的经验来看，通常更多是分享个大概，而不是那种特别私密的细节，不过也挺劲爆的。
And I think from my experience, usually it's more headline sharing versus like personal details, like nitty gritty sharing, which is like still juicy.
这还是在界限之内的，就是说，我们不会开始深挖这个人的私生活。
It's within the boundary of, okay, we're not starting to dig into this person's personal life now.
就是听说这个人发生了什么事。
It's just like, heard this is going on with this person.
而且有时候其实是出于好意。
And sometimes it's actually with like good intention too.
就像，嘿，我听说这个人正在经历一些事情。
It's like, hey, I heard this person is going through something.
所以提醒你一下，接下来几个月我们对这个人多包容一点，类似这样。
So just to let you know, let's be more graceful around this person in the next few months, something like that.
那这么一来，就又回到职业层面了。
So then I guess it crosses back into the professional sense.
就是说，对，这个人私生活里发生了这事，所以可能会影响到他们的工作。
It's like, yeah, this is happening in this person's personal life, so it might affect their professional work.
然后
And
有趣的是，当这种事发生时，那个人在工作上却完全正常。
it's funny too when something like that happens, but then the person is, like, totally normal at work.
他们其实做得很好，那他们还需要特殊照顾吗？
Like, they're actually, doing great, and it's like, do they need grace?
他们现在正风生水起呢。
They're popping off right now.
给这个人更多工作。
Give this person more work.
有时候这是不可避免的。
It's inevitable sometimes.
我敢肯定你工作的地方也有陪产假或丧假。
Like, I'm sure you probably also have parental leave or bereavement leave at work.
你知道，如果有人休丧假，而且日历上显示出来，你会想，天哪，显然这个人的亲人去世了。
You know, if someone is on leave for bereavement and it like shows up on their calendar, you're like, oh my god, clearly someone close to this person passed away.
这背后到底有什么八卦？
Like, what's the tea here?
有时候你甚至事后才知道。
Or sometimes you even find out about it in hindsight.
我觉得我遇到过这种情况，就是同事在会议上表现特别反常，还有点没礼貌。
I think I've had experiences where I was like, woah, this coworker is being extremely erratic and low key rude in meetings.
后来我才听说，哦，他们个人生活里遇到了什么事，可能是离婚，或者像你说的，有亲近的人去世了。
And then later I'm like, I hear that, oh, they were going through something in their personal life, maybe a divorce or like you said, like someone close passing away.
然后你就会觉得，那一切都说得通了。
And then you're like, makes a lot of sense.
哦，我也有过这么一次经历。
Oh I've had this one experience.
有个同事，我们相处得特别好，但突然有一天他就消失了。
There's this person that like I worked with and we got along really well but then suddenly they just disappeared.
我当时就想，天哪，这到底是怎么回事？
And I was like oh my god like what's going on?
我唯一能查到的就是他们根据日历在休假，但我不知道是什么假，也不知道发生了什么。
All I could really find out was that they were on leave based on their calendar but I didn't know like what kind of leave or you know what was going on.
所以我一直在打听，想弄清楚。
So I was trying to dig around and find out.
后来那个人在彻底离开公司之前发了一封邮件，解释了发生的事情。
And then later that person sent an email before fully leaving the company and they explained what happened.
他们说，哦，我有些健康问题，不得不做一系列手术。
They're like, Oh, I had these health problems and I had to go through a bunch of procedures.
不幸的是，我不能再请假了，所以现在必须离开公司。
Unfortunately, I can't take leave any longer so I have to leave the company now.
欢迎大家随时联系我。
Feel free to reach out.
我觉得在信息传播方面，这件事挺有意思的，因为那个人自己给一群同事发了邮件来解释情况。
And I guess in terms of like spreading information, that one was interesting because the person themselves just kind of emailed a bunch of people that they work with to explain themselves.
然后有点好笑的是，我一个同事说，嘿，还记得那个人吗？
And then it was a little funny because one of my coworkers was like, Hey, remember that person?
比如，他们后来怎么样了？
Like, whatever happened to them?
然后我就说，哦，他们发了封邮件。
And I was like, Oh, they had sent out this email.
我就把邮件给同事看了。
And I showed it to my coworker.
同事说，哦，我没收到那封邮件。
They're like, oh, I don't think I got that email.
那一刻我还觉得自己挺特别的。
And I felt kinda special in that moment.
心里想，哇。
Was like, damn.
所以我觉得我跟那个人关系还挺近的。
So I guess I was pretty close to this person.
你就说，哦，你不在收件人列表里。
You're like, oh, you didn't make the distribution list.
但后来我同事坐到他们桌前，在邮箱里搜了一下，然后说，哦，其实我在那个邮件链上。
But then my coworkers sits down at their desk and they search it in their email and they're like, oh, actually I was on that thread.
我就说，哦，原来如此。
I was like, oh, I see.
对。
Yeah.
唉。
Boo.
我是说，人们遇到严重的健康问题之类的，总是很让人难过。
I mean, it's always unfortunate when people go through like very serious health problems and stuff.
但我觉得有趣的反面是，当你看到有人在会议上或者工作场合里慢慢消失或者淡出。
But I feel like the funny flip side of this is when you see people like either disappear or sometimes start to like fade away in meetings and like work stuff.
然后你发现他们其实在偷偷找工作。
And then you realize that they were fucking job hunting.
天哪，老兄。
Oh my god, dude.
好的。
Okay.
我觉得一个人要是心不在焉，是有迹象的。
I'm there are signs when someone is checked out.
不管他们怎么努力掩饰，很多时候总会露出一些小破绽。
And no matter how hard they try to cover it, many times there's like a small detail that slips up.
然后，对。
And then Yes.
如果你留心的话，就能发现。
If you're paying attention, you can catch it.
我觉得我以前注意到的迹象是，人们经常去各种预约。
I feel like the signs that I've noticed in the past are when people go to, like, appointments a lot.
就像，你过去六周里看了六次医生。
It's like, you have a six doctor's appointment in, the last six weeks.
这挺有意思的。
Like, very interesting.
或者当人们突然不能参加会议，而这些会议他们以前总是会抽出时间参加或者优先安排的。
Or when people suddenly can't make meetings and it's meetings that they would always like make time for or like prioritize.
或者这个更难看出来。
Or this one is more hard to tell.
当人们突然对以前会争取的事情变得非常无所谓的时候，你懂吗？
When people suddenly become very okay with things that they would have like fought for in the past, you know?
对。
Yeah.
我就想，哦，你现在愿意设置这个新追踪器，并且愿意做报告了？
I'm like, oh, you're down to set up this new tracker and like do reporting on it?
有意思。
Interesting.
你过去三年一直在反对这件事。
You've been fighting this for the past three years.
你现在说没问题是什么意思？
What do mean okay?
以前你可是会死磕到底的。
Like previously, you would have died on this hill.
现在突然就无所谓了？
Like suddenly you're okay with this hill?
对。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
也许没那么好笑，但我觉得自己刚加入公司就遇到这种事，真的挺有意思的。
Maybe it's not that funny but I just thought it was such a funny way for me to like join a company and experience this immediately.
不过有一次，我加入了一家公司和一个新团队。
But there was this one time where I joined a company and a new team.
当时新经理在带我，人很客气，给我介绍各种新东西。
I was like being onboarded with my new manager they were being very nice and explaining all these new things.
然后他们把我介绍给了几个同事。
And then they introduced me to like a couple of the teammates.
其中有个同事当时是临时工。
And one of the teammates was a temp worker at the time.
我记得他们的合同大概还有一个月左右就到期了。
So I think their contract was maybe coming up in a month or so.
然后经理把我介绍给所有人之后，那个临时工把我拉到一边，开始给我布置任务什么的。
And so after my manager introduces me to everyone, this temp worker, they pull me aside and start, you know, giving me my assignments or whatever.
然后经理突然就说，对。
And then my manager suddenly is just like, yeah.
顺便说一下，之前那个临时工，现在表现不太好。
By the way, earlier that, like, temp worker, not doing great right now.
所以我觉得，他们下个月合同到期后就会走了。
So I think, they're just gonna be gone next month when the contract is open.
我当时就想，等等。
I'm like, wait.
什么？
What?
我才刚认识这个人，你现在才告诉我这个。
Like, I just met this dude and you're telling me this now.
所以接下来的一个月，我得憋着不说这个人要被辞退的事。
So for the next month, I have to hold it in that this dude's just like getting let go.
天哪。
Oh my god.
等等。
Wait.
确实，是的。
Actually, yeah.
我觉得这种事挺常见的。
I feel like that kind of stuff is common.
或者你遇到一个实习生，对。
Or like you meet an intern Yeah.
然后你就说，哦，很高兴认识你之类的。
And then you're like, oh, nice meet you blah blah blah.
你和他们一起吃了个午饭，结果后来别人跟你说，对，他们肯定拿不到
You spend like a whole lunch with them and then later someone else is like, yeah, they're definitely not getting
全职录用。
a full time offer.
然后我就想，哦，好吧。
And I'm like, oh, okay.
现在回想起来，一开始就被介绍认识这种局面，真是挺搞笑的。
It was just such a like, in hindsight, such a funny situation to immediately be introduced with.
天哪，这让我想起有一次我和几个同事吃午饭，然后另一个同事刚度完长假回来，那是我第一次见到这个人。
Oh my god, that reminds me of this time I, like, was eating lunch with some coworkers and then another coworker had just gotten back from, like, a long vacation and it was my first time meeting this person.
所以我就说，哦，你好。
So I was like, oh, hi.
很高兴认识你。
Nice to meet you.
我们互相寒暄了几句之类的。
We exchanged pleasantries or whatever.
结果就在那天吃午饭的时候，她突然说，对了，我已经提交了两周离职通知。
And then literally that day at lunch, she was like, by the way, I put in my two week notice.
下周五就是我最后一天上班了。
Like, next Friday is gonna be my last day.
我当时就想，我才刚认识你。
I was like, I just met you.
搞什么鬼？
What the fuck?
你要是都要走了，干嘛还让我花这么多时间陪你？
Like, why did you let me spend all this time with you if you're just leaving?
我就问她，你的工作范围是什么？
I was like, oh, what's your scope of work?
就是随便聊聊之类的。
Like, blah blah blah.
然后我就发现，她根本没什么明确的工作范围。
And I was like, oh, there is no scope of work.
我也见过很多这样的情况，比如我第一次见到他们。
I've also seen a lot where it's like, I meet them for the first time maybe.
对。
Mhmm.
然后他们就说，是啊，我马上要休产假或陪产假，接下来半年都不在。
And then they're like, yeah, I'm about to leave on like, parent leave for the next half year.
我就想，哦，那我岂不是再也见不到你了。
I'm like, oh, so I'm never seeing you then.
是的。
Yeah.
说实话，那些休产假或陪产假的人，你刚加入的时候，你认识他们才一会儿，然后他们就再也不出现了。
Honestly, like, the maternity, paternity leave people, when you, like, first join, you know them for one second, and then they're never to be
接下来好几个月都见不到。对。
seen for the next Yeah.
八个月。
Eight months.
有时候，人们也会告诉你该联系谁。
Sometimes, it's also, like, people are telling you who to reach out to.
哦，这些是我们经常合作的好的合作伙伴。
Oh, these are, like, good partners that we work with a lot.
确保你让自己被知道。
Make sure you make yourself known.
有一次，有个人，我想他们是从产假回来的。
One time, one of the people was, I think they were coming back from maternal leave.
所以我一直试着联系他们，比如，嘿，我们安排个一对一的会议吧。
And so I kept trying to reach out to them like, hey, let's set up a one on one.
但你知道当他们回来的时候，我猜他们有很多事情要处理。
But you know when they're like coming back, I guess there's a lot of just stuff that they're handling.
对。
Right.
收件箱爆满，有时候还要弄清楚他们新的工作范围，因为有很多变化。
Super full inboxes, figuring out what their new scope of work is sometimes because there's a lot of change.
对。
Mhmm.
所以这个人，我联系了好几次，一直没回我。
So this person just like never got back to me after I reached out to them a bunch of times.
天哪。
Bruh.
然后我就放弃了。
And I just gave up.
我去。
Damn.
离开六到八个月再回来，过渡期肯定特别难熬。
It's probably really fucking hard to transition back after being gone for six to eight months.
是的。
Yeah.
那种情况下，我就会想，这人是谁啊？
In those instances, I'm like, who is this person?
你知道吗？
You know?
所以我就得去打听一下。
So then I have to go and ask around.
对。
Yeah.
这个人到底有多重要，非得我去见他们？
Who is is it that important that I meet them?
因为他们现在看起来根本联系不上。
Because they seem pretty unreachable right now.
或者就像你跟同事聊天的时候，有些名字经常被提起，但他们就像过去的幽灵一样，因为已经不在公司了。
Or there's like, when you are talking to coworkers and stuff, there's certain names I feel like that are brought up, but they're like ghosts from the past because they no longer work at this company anymore.
大家总是说，哎呀，我好想念这个人。
And people are always like, oh, like, I miss this person.
然后我脑子里就凭空想象出一个形象，因为我对他们完全不了解。
And then I just have like a fake image in my head of who this person could be because I have no idea who they are.
对，完全同意。
Yeah, totally agree.
我就想，这人是谁啊？
I'm like, who who is that?
就像都市传说一样。
Like an urban legend.
只有少数人见过他们。
Only some people have seen them.
哥们，最疯狂的是，这个人偶尔出现的时候。
Dude, and the craziest part is the very small times when this person appears.
比如，他们可能会来办公室看看。
Like, maybe they come to visit the office.
然后你就会想，天哪。
And then you're like, oh my god.
我现在亲眼见到他们了。
I'm seeing them in the flesh now.
突然之间，所有的故事都说得通了。
Suddenly, all the stories make sense.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得我们还没聊过的最后一个职场大戏，就是职位头衔层面的那些事。
I feel like one of the last workplace drama that we haven't talked about is when things happen at a professional level in terms of job title.
我以前见过这种情况，公司里有个大 announcement，比如新来了个高管什么的。
So I've seen this before where there's a big announcement at work, maybe some new executive is hired or something.
然后这个招聘几乎就变成了对某个人的非正式降职。
And with that hiring comes almost like an unofficial demotion for someone.
或者另一种情况是，晋升周期来了。
Or another one could be like a promotion cycle happens.
你打开邮件，看到所有公布的名字，然后某个明显在准备晋升或者努力想升职的人，却没有被升上去。
You open the email with all the names that are announced, and then someone who was very obviously, like, gearing up for promo or, like, trying to get promoted wasn't promoted.
你见过类似的情况发生吗？
Have you seen something like that happen?
是的。
Yeah.
其实，我真的见过。
Actually, I totally have.
我肯定见过的一种情况就是，公司重组之后，有些人就莫名其妙地被降级了，我觉得如果你经常和他们一起工作的话，那会非常尴尬。
One that I've seen for sure is, like, reorgs that happen and then people kind of unofficially get demoted in some ways which I feel like is so awkward if you work with them a lot.
对。
Yeah.
因为那时候你就会想，我该怎么办？
Because then you're like what do I do?
没错。
Right.
我现在该怎么面对你？
How do I act around you now?
但是，是的，我觉得这确实挺让人难受的。
But, yeah, I feel like it's pretty upsetting for sure.
所以完全能理解。
So can totally understand.
但这也挺有意思的，因为你可以看到人们怎么处理这种情况，比如他们怎么反应。
But it's also interesting because then you can see how people handle that situation, like how they react to it.
我觉得有些人会自己开始改变做法，他们会想，好吧，如果之前的方法不行，那我就试试新方法。
I feel like some people start changing things up themselves where they're like, okay, guess if this approach that I did earlier didn't work, then I'm going try a new approach.
你可以看到他们的工作方式甚至主动性发生变化。
And you can kind of see their work style or even proactivity change.
或者有时候他们就是不在乎，什么都不做。
Or sometimes they just don't care and don't do anything.
我觉得当非正式降职发生时，人们脸上的表情真的很难形容。
I feel like the facial expression that people make when like, an unofficial demotion happens is so hard to describe.
那是一种苦涩，有时候甚至带点后悔，还有怨恨的混合体。
It's like a mix of bitterness and then, like, maybe sometimes even regret and also, like, resentment.
但在工作场合，你又得装作没事一样。
But you're also at work so you kind of have to like play it off.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yeah.
我觉得这种事发生的时候真的特别尴尬。
I feel like whenever it happens it's just so awkward.
我忍不住会盯着那个人看，而且我敢肯定其他人也都在盯着他。
Like I can't help but stare at that person in the face and I'm sure everyone else is also staring at them.
哥们，你经历过的晋升是不是都挺公开的？
Dude, are promotions like in your experience pretty public?
是的。
Yeah.
晋升通常都会正式宣布。
Promotions are usually, like, announced officially.
天哪。
Dude.
对。
Yeah.
所以我之前完全没想到会这么公开，但根据我的经验，确实挺公开的。
So I I totally thought that it wouldn't be as announced, but in my experience, it is pretty public.
而且我觉得，我不确定我是不是喜欢这样。
And I feel like that I don't know if I love that.
你知道吗？
You know?
哦，有意思。
Oh, interesting.
为什么？
Why?
因为一方面，这挺好的，因为就像，哦，是的。
Because on one hand, it's nice because it's like, oh, yeah.
比如说，如果这个人确实付出了努力并且得到了晋升，那和他一起庆祝、认可他的成就，确实是件好事。
Like, you know, if this person put in the work and got promos, it is nice to celebrate with them and acknowledge it.
但有时候我觉得，正是这一点会引发一些不满情绪，对吧？
But sometimes I feel like that is what brings out the bitterness, right?
因为这样一来，大家就更容易知道别人的情况，你会想，哦，这些人升职了，但那些人没有。
Because then you know everyone's business a little more where you're like, oh, these people got promoed, but these people didn't.
而且我觉得，也许那些人本来也在努力争取晋升。
And I feel like maybe they were trying to get promos.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
对，确实是这样。
Yeah, that's true.
尤其是因为晋升通常取决于预算，或者有一定的名额限制，对吧？
Especially because promotions are usually based on budget or there's some sort of cap, right?
即使某个团队或某个层级的所有人都表现很好，那一年都很努力，你也不可能让每个人都升职。
Even if everyone on one team was really good or everyone on one level was really good and working hard that year, you can't promote fucking everyone.
不过很久以前我遇到过一件特别尴尬的事，那时候我刚升职。
But I've had a really awkward experience once a long time ago, but I had gotten promoted.
有个跟我同时进公司、级别也差不多的人，直接跑过来跟我说，你知道吗，HR告诉我今年我不能升职，因为你升了，每个级别只能升一个人。
Someone who had joined the company at the same time at a similar level as me literally came up to me and was like, oh, you know, HR told me that I couldn't get promoted this year because you got promoted and they can only promote one person at each level.
我当时完全不知道该怎么回应。
And I just had like no idea what to say back to that.
我当时就想，这什么鬼？
I was like, what the fuck?
我才刚来这儿工作一年。
I just started working here like one year ago.
这也太离谱了。
That's crazy.
是啊。
I know.
这感觉挺有攻击性的。
That feels aggressive.
我的意思是，我当时也在想，你想让我怎么做？
It was I mean, I was also like, what do you want me to do?
又不是我决定晋升的。
I'm not the one deciding promos.
我真的不明白。
Like, I don't understand.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我会吓死的。
I would be so scared.
我也不知道该说什么。
I wouldn't know what to say either.
我当时就说，哦，抱歉？
I was like oh sorry?
我会问，那你现在是不是讨厌我了？
I'd be like so do you hate me now?
对，这确实挺难的，因为我完全理解那个人的感受，但我也觉得她也许可以换个方式来处理。
Yeah that's tough though because I feel like oh man I totally understand where that person's coming from But I also feel like maybe they could have approached it differently.
她本来可以过来跟你一起吐槽这个制度，而不是用那种比较冲的方式。
They could have come and shit talk the system with you instead of coming off more aggressive like that.
我觉得吧，也许我不是那个合适的倾诉对象。
I mean, maybe I felt like I wasn't the right audience.
比如说，你可以对此感到不满和沮丧。
Like, you could be bitter and upset about it.
我觉得这完全合理，如果我是她，我也会这样。
I feel like it's totally valid, and I, in her position, would.
但我最不会去抱怨的人，就是那个被升职的人。
But the last person I would complain about that to is, like, the one person that did get promoted.
你懂吧？
You know?
确实。
True.
但我觉得你说得对，升职并不总是公司里每个人都很开心的事。
But I think you're right in that promotions aren't always big happy moments for everyone in the company.
对。
Yeah.
所以我觉得，宣布升职的时候，我有点尴尬。
So I feel like there's a bit of me that feels awkward that like promos get announced.
而且我觉得，就像你说的，你知道那个人之所以不高兴，是因为在这种情况下只有一个人能升职，而那个人不是她。
And I think kind of similar to what you said, how you know that person was upset because only one person could get promos in this situation and it wasn't that person.
当升职宣布的时候，我觉得会引发更多的猜测，因为大家会想，哦，我看到那个团队里的谁升职了，但我认识一堆人也想升职。
When promos get announced, I feel like it leads to more speculation because then it's like, oh, I see that, you know, this person on whatever team got promo ed, but I know a bunch of people wanted to get promo ed.
有什么不同呢？
What was different?
是不是背后有什么政治因素，或者有什么更深层的计划？
And was there some politics behind it or was there like some deeper game plan behind it?
所以这只会给猜测留出更多空间。
So it just like opens up more room for speculation.
兄弟，这说得太对了。
Dude, actually that's so true.
我觉得在公司待得久的人，或者职位更高的人，有时候会分享一些晋升背后的内幕。
I feel like the people who have been at the company longer or maybe are more higher up can sometimes share like, oh, this is the behind the scenes of what happens in a promotion.
对。
Mhmm.
所以呢，确实会引发更多的讨论。
So then, yeah, it does invite a little bit more discussion.
是的。
Yeah.
一些猜测。
Some theorizing.
有意思的是，从某种程度上来说，
It's interesting because to an extent,
我觉得晋升有时候是留住人心的一种手段。
I feel like a promotion is a lever to keep people happy sometimes.
对。
Yeah.
按理说，这应该是奖励那些表现非常出色的人，但其实不止如此。
Technically, it's supposed to be, like, rewarding people who have performed at a really high level, but it's not just that.
不是说你考了个好成绩就能直接升级。
It's not like you ace a test and then you move on.
确实如此。
There's So true.
背后有很多政治因素在起作用。
A lot of politics that happen behind the scenes.
其实这挺有意思的，因为我跟我妈聊过这个，我说，现在年纪大了，回头想想这些事，工作跟学校真的不一样。
Actually, this is really interesting because I was talking to my mom about this where I was like, now that I'm older and I'm reflecting on some of this stuff, work is just different from school.
在学校，你只要努力学习，拿个好成绩就行了。
Because at school you can get away with just working hard and getting good grades.
但一旦进入职场，就多了一个因素，那就是别人得喜欢你。
But then once you're in a workplace, there is an extra element of people need to like you.
而且有时候，这就是最后一步，你知道，不管是升职还是加薪什么的。
And that is sometimes that final step to getting, you know, whatever, going up the ladder or promos and things like that.
确实如此。
It's so true.
就像那句话说的，会哭的孩子有奶吃。
It's like the term the squeaky wheel gets the grease or whatever.
我觉得在职场上经常能看到这种情况。
I think you see it at work all the time.
而且有很多会哭的孩子，也有很多沉默的孩子。
And there's a lot of squeaky wheels and a lot of silent wheels.
对。
Yeah.
我刚开始工作的头几年，就是个沉默的孩子。
In my first few years of work, I was a silent wheel.
现在嘛，我偶尔也会吱一声了。
Now I'm like a I'm a wheel that will occasionally peep.
说到底，我还是坚持我之前说的，人天生就爱打听。
Well, at the end of the day, I'm gonna stick to what I said earlier that people are inherently nosy.
而且很多时候，人就是忍不住想打听消息，或者想听听别人的事。
And it's often inevitable to seek information or want to hear about some information.
我觉得聊聊我们在工作中看到的那些边界、办公室八卦或者职场政治，真的挺有意思的。
I think it was really interesting to chat about some of the boundariessome of the things that we see at work with drama or work politics.
所以谢谢你，Jisoo，跟我聊天，分享我们的经历。
So thank you Jisoo for chatting with me and discussing some of our experiences.
其实这算是一次挺正能量的讨论了。
It was a surprisingly wholesome discussion actually.
确实。
True.
各位听众，如果你们对职场政治或者办公室八卦有什么想法，欢迎随时联系我们。
For our listeners out there, if you have any thoughts on workplace politics or drama, feel free to reach out to us.
我们的社交媒体是eatyourcrustpod，邮箱是eatyourcrustpod@gmail.com。
We have social media eatyourcrustpod and we also have email eatyourcrustpodgmail dot com.
如果你想收听我们的其他节目，别忘了在Spotify、Apple Podcasts或任何你收听播客的地方关注我们。
And if you like to catch our other episodes, then don't forget to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
我们每隔一个周三早上更新新节目。
We upload new episodes every other Wednesday morning.
感谢收听。
Thanks for listening.
别忘了吃掉你的面包边。
And don't forget to eat your crust.
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