我们如何消除灾难化思维

嗨，欢迎回到‘吃掉你的面包屑’播客。我是Crystal。

Hi. Welcome back to eat your crust podcast. I'm Crystal.

我是Jisoo。

And I'm Jisoo.

所以我觉得我想说我们又回到那种混乱状态了，因为我们可能又面临危机，把事情往最坏处想。但我们想聊聊如何应对这些高压时期，或者可以说是动荡时期。感觉今年尤其如此，我们一直有相似的困扰，就是太忙了，有时很难有属于自己的时间。你在这种时候或其他灾难性时刻会觉得情绪失控吗？

So I feel like I wanna say we're back on that bullshit because we are potentially having crises again and catastrophizing. But we thought we would talk about how do we deal with these times of high stress or just, like, unrest, I guess, could also be another way to describe it. I feel like, especially this year, we have been feeling, like a similar issue, which is we're just so busy. Sometimes it's hard to get a moment to yourself. Do you ever feel like your emotions get out of control during these kinds of times or any other sort of catastrophe?

是啊，你说到点子上了。感觉今年我们都没机会停下来喘口气。但总的来说，我自认为是个偶尔会经历小型灾难的人。最近我就经历了一次健康焦虑小发作，在网上研究了几个小时后，我确信自己出了大问题。那个周末我取消了所有计划，去看了几次医生，最后结论是其实没什么危险，只是些正常现象。在那段健康恐慌期里，我有种情绪像龙卷风一样围绕着我旋转的感觉。

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. Feels like we haven't had a chance to stop and take a breather this year. But in general, I consider myself someone who will from time to time have like a mini catastrophe. And one of the things that I experienced recently was actually like a mini health anxiety episode where I convinced myself after hours and hours of research online that I had this major problem After cancelling all my plans for that weekend and going to see the doctor a couple times, it was concluded that it was not in fact anything dangerous and it was just like some sort of normal thing that happened. So when I was going through my health episode, I had this moment where I felt like my emotions were whirling around me like a tornado.

尽管我能感觉到自己正处于轻微恐慌发作状态——心跳极快、呼吸短促、视线开始模糊甚至出现雪花点——但还是很难让自己抽离出来。

And even though I could sense that I was having like a mini panic attack, my heart rate was really fast, felt like I wasn't taking deep breaths, and my vision was starting to get almost fuzzy and like staticky. It was still hard for me to pull myself out of that.

老兄，这个描述太贴切了。你说情绪像龙卷风一样旋转的感觉太真实了。那种时刻我真的觉得自己完全失控了。对，就像迷失在酱料里。

Dude, that's such a good way of describing it. I feel like the description of your emotions whirling around you is so true. I think in those moments, I literally feel like I've lost control. Yeah. I'm lost in the sauce.

我不知道自己在做什么，就像在飘浮。

I don't know what what I'm doing. I'm just like floating.

是啊。我觉得每个人都有自己应对机制。对我来说，我倾向于外化处理情绪。所以重新掌控情绪的过程通常包括打电话或发短信向别人倾诉。

Yeah. And I don't know. I think everyone has their own sort of coping mechanisms. For me, I tend to process my emotions very externally. So a lot of that, like taking control of my emotions again process looks like phone calls with people or, you know, texting people about my thoughts and emotions.

当然这还伴随着：我必须规划好最坏情况下的逃生方案。然后如果发现即使最坏情况也还能接受，我就会开始平静下来。

And that, of course, goes hand in hand with I have to map out my escape plan if the worst case scenario happened. And then if I feel like even in the worst case scenario, it's still kind of okay, then I start to calm down.

老兄，我也是这样需要制定计划的人。有趣的是，制定计划并不是我日常生活中的重要部分。嗯。但知道有那个逃生方案会带来安全感。

Dude, okay. I'm also similar where I need to come up with a plan. I think it's funny too because coming up with plans is not necessarily a huge part of, like, what I do day to day. Mhmm. But I feel like it's the safety of knowing you have that escape plan.

老兄，可能这只是对未知的恐惧吧。

Dude, maybe it's just, like, fear of the unknown.

哦，很有可能。

Oh, probably.

想象自己陷入不知所措的境地确实可怕。于是我们会编造些随机计划来保护未来的自己。

It's scary to imagine us in a situation where we don't know what to do. Then we like shield our future selves by coming up with this like random plan.

是啊。记得有次在国外突然恐慌发作，当时真的吓坏了，而且就我一个人。心想完了完了不知道该怎么办，有时差也不能随便找人帮忙。

Yeah. I remember like one time I was abroad and I had a panic attack. And I was really, really freaking out and I was also alone at the time. So I was like, oh my god, I don't know what to do. I can't just like randomly hit someone up because of time difference as well.

最后我直接坐下来登录医疗系统预约了医生——虽然排到两个月后了，毕竟临时很难约。但光是这个动作就让我立刻平静下来，感觉总算采取了行动。

Right. So what I ended up doing was I literally sat down and I logged on to like my health portal or whatever my, like, doctor portal thing is, and I made an appointment right then and there. Even though it was like dude, I think it was like two months later because it's so hard to get them right away. But even though it was two months later, that like immediately calmed me. Was like, okay, you know, action has been taken.

接下来只要撑过这几天，熬过两个月去看医生就行。

Now we just have to get to the doctor, survive the next few days, the next two months, and get to the doctor.

天啊我太懂了。就像你说的，能把你从情绪里捞出来的不总是最实际的办法。嗯...比如你预约那次，或者我有次陷在人际关系负面思绪里...

Oh my god. I totally feel that. Like you said, it's not always like the most practical thing that ends up saving you from your own emotions. Mhmm. That appointment you made or once I was having this negative thought spiral of something about, like, interpersonal relationships, basically.

嗯...为了摆脱这种状态，我洗澡时在脑子里编了个假想场景，还完整演绎了整个剧情。其实特别没意义对吧？根本解决不了问题。

Mhmm. In order to snap myself out of it, I had to basically create this fake scenario in my head and have, like, a whole play out of that scenario, like, while I was in the shower. And it's just so, like, meaningless. Right? Like, that doesn't really do anything.

但这种虚构对话或场景演完，我就会突然觉得：哦其实也没那么严重，和二十分钟前想的完全不一样。

There's no, like, practical application. But I think even just having that, like, fake conversation or having that fake scenario play out, I was like, oh, I'm, like, over this. This is not as big of a deal as I thought twenty minutes ago, basically.

哇靠，你这是在脑子里写小说啊？

Damn. You're writing novels in your head?

我不知道。或许我只是需要了解每种可能的结果。嗯。你小时候读过那些选择你自己的冒险故事书吗？是的。

I don't know. Maybe I just need to know what happens in every scenario. Mhmm. Did you ever read those choose your own adventure books when you were young? Yes.

所以每次做出选择后，我都会翻回去看另一条路线的结局，这样就能知道机会成本是什么。有时候我真希望人生也能这样，可以预览所有可能性。

So every time I would make a decision, I would go back and read what the other path would have done so that I know what the opportunity cost is. And sometimes I wish you could do that with life and just like see how everything maps out.

我也是。选了一条路就会想：好了现在得重读，但必须选另一条路看看结果。确实。我觉得对我来说，采取行动能帮助稳定情绪。你会觉得'当下我已尽力了'。

Same. I would choose one path and be like okay now I have to reread but I have to choose the other path and see what happens. Exactly. I think it's also for me taking action helps maybe like ground everything a little bit. You're like I did what I could in the moment.

所以，对你而言可能就是演绎了那个场景。就像我的例子，虽然预约要等两三个月，但至少我尽力去做了。

And so, you know, maybe for you that means, like, you acted out the scenario. And then, like, you know, in my example where I've made this appointment, even though it's, like, two, three months out, it's just I did what I could.

你说得对。还有就是要打破负面思维的循环。当你不采取行动时，我往往只会恐慌、过度研究，或者陷入最初困住我的那个思维闭环。所以部分解决方案就是尽力跳出这个循环——这很难。有时同样的四个念头在我脑子里循环播放，简直是种折磨。

I think you're right. Also, just about maybe breaking that negative thought spiral. Sometimes when you're not doing anything and taking action, the alternative that I'm doing is freaking out or doing more research or, you know, just, like, continuing in the same thought loop that, like, trapped me in this position in the first place. So maybe a part of it too is just, like, doing what you can to break out of that cycle because it can be hard. Sometimes I think the same, like, four thoughts are on repeat in my head, and I'm just tortured by that.

老兄，我懂你的意思。兄弟，这是不是另一种情境下的战斗或逃跑反应？比如战斗就是采取行动，而逃跑嘛，大概就是...陷入消极循环吧。

Dude, I know what you mean. Dude, is this just fight or flight in a different context? Like, fighting is taking action, and flighting is, I don't know, spiraling, I guess.

说实话我在想，面对灾难时另一种应对方式是否也是逃避。不知道你有没有这种经历——当某件事让我压力爆表时，我会竭尽全力不去想它，虽然具体效果得看情况，但这未必总是上策。所以可能这就是'逃跑'？不过我不确定'消极循环'算什么...啊，应该是'僵住'反应。

Oh, honestly, I wonder if the other way to act in a catastrophe is also just like avoidance. I don't know if you've experienced this before, but sometimes when something is really stressing me out, I will try my entire absolute best to not think about it, which depending on what it is, isn't always the best thing to do. So maybe that's the flight. I don't know what spiraling would be though. Oh, it's freeze.

等等你说得对，在这个情境下你完全正确。我也曾拼命逃避某些事，就像把自己抽离现实，或者找个能沉迷的 distraction（消遣）——管它是刷一周还是一个月。

Oh, wait, you're right. I think you're completely right in this scenario. I have also definitely just avoided something so hard. It's like disassociating or like finding some distraction to like get absorbed into for the next, I don't know, week Right. Month.

比如瘫在沙发上刷TikTok，或者随便放个剧，就为了不去想烦心事。但说实话这样有时反而让我情绪更糟...嗯...因为那些情绪最终还是会追上来，你只能认栽。

Like rotting on the couch, scrolling through TikTok or like putting on some random show so that you don't have to think about whatever it is that's bothering you. And I I feel like actually that sometimes puts me in more of a funk, though. Mhmm. Because I guess, like, the emotions catch up later. You're just like, okay.

结果就是，我为了逃避这件事荒废了两三周，现在更难受了——不仅没逃掉，还把自己搞得一团糟。

Well, I just, you know, was unproductive for two, three weeks trying to avoid this thing. And now I feel bad because not only did I not avoid it successfully, but I also just took shit care of myself.

没错。老兄，我觉得那种恐慌感总是会在某个随机的晚上10点突然袭来。那种感觉如此强烈，让你根本无法入睡，于是你只能坐在电脑前，像个疯子一样连续工作四个小时，然后你会想，为什么我不在两周前的正常时间就把这事搞定呢？

Right. Dude, and I feel like that panic always comes at, like, 10PM on a random night. And it's just a feeling that's so big that you can't go to sleep, and now you, like, sit up at your computer and you, like, work on it like a crazy person for four hours, and you're like, why didn't I just do this at a normal time, like, two weeks ago?

是的。我完全同意。熬夜是我最大的恶习之一。

Yes. I completely agree. Staying up late at night is one of my greatest vices.

你觉得这是你应对压力过大的首要方式吗？比如通过熬夜来争取独处时间，或者屏蔽所有让你感到压力的事情？

Do you think that's like the number one way that you deal with being overwhelmed? Like do you try to carve out alone time or block out everything that's stressing you out by staying up late?

是的。这很糟糕，因为我通常需要独处时间。我至少时不时需要一个完全属于自己的周末。这些周末最重要的部分就是我要睡够，否则整个星期我都会像只暴躁的老鼠。所以问题是，如果我没有得到独处时间，我想我听过有人称之为‘报复性拖延’，就像你通过牺牲睡眠来争取独处时间。

Yes. Which is so bad because usually I need alone time. I need, like, you know, a weekend or two to myself at least here and there. And the biggest part about these weekends is I need to get enough sleep or else I'm just, like, a grumpy rat all week. And so the issue is, like, if I'm not getting that alone time I I guess I've heard it called, like, revenge procrastination where it's like you fight for your own alone time by sacrificing sleep, for example.

你知道，通常你只是在做一些无意义的事情。所以通过牺牲睡眠来争取我能得到的任何独处时间，这实际上是在做与应该做的相反的事。

You know, usually, you're doing just mindless stuff. And so by sacrificing sleep to like carve out whatever alone time I can get, it's like doing the opposite of what it should be doing.

老兄，这太难了。我总刷到那些TikTok视频，说什么当你压力大时，与其躺在沙发上吃薯片，不如去散个步。而我心想，去他妈的，这绝对是我最不想做的事。

Dude, it's so hard. I always watch those TikToks where it's like, oh, when you're stressed, instead of laying on the couch and eating potato chips, you should go on a walk. And I'm like, fuck no. That's like the last thing I wanna do.

兄弟，最糟的是当你终于振作起来去健身房或散步时，你会突然觉得，等等，这感觉居然这么棒。

Dude, and the worst part is when you, you know, finally pick yourself up and go to the gym or take a walk, you're like, wait, this is like so nice.

你就会想，他们没骗人？哥们，我真不知道。我觉得自己最大的挑战除了跳出思维循环，还有就是培养更健康的应对机制。就像你说的，去健身房什么的，一旦有了动力就会容易很多。但当你陷入低谷，感觉整个世界都在崩塌时，光是踏出家门就需要我耗尽全部力气。

You're like, they weren't lying? Dude, I don't know. I think one of my biggest challenges is breaking out of my thought loops, of course, but also just leading into healthier coping mechanisms. And like you said, like going to the gym and stuff, it feels so much easier when you have that momentum going. But I think when you're in a really tough spot where you feel like the world is caving in around you, it takes a lot in me to, like, even leave the house.

说真的，我特别佩服那些在艰难时期还能坚持日常习惯的人。但对我来说，健康习惯总是第一个被抛弃的。

Dude. And I really respect people who during their tough times, they still keep up with their routines. But for me, I feel like my healthiest habits are the first to go out the window.

天啊，等等，你说得太对了。突然间你就完全没了自律。确实。

Oh my god. Wait. You're so right. Suddenly, you just have no discipline. Yeah.

就是那个活化能。太高了。

It's that activation energy. Too high.

其实我想知道，你应对机制的全部清单。然后希望你把它们分成两类。一类是感觉良好但实际上对你有害的，另一类是感觉不好但实际上对你有益的。

Well, I wanna know actually, the full list of your coping mechanisms. Okay. And I want you to kind of sort them into two buckets. So like one is it something that feels good, but it's actually bad for you. And the other is things that feel bad, but are actually good for you.

好。先说个简单直观的——感觉好但实际有害的例子。比如不小心刷手机刷到凌晨五六点。

Okay. Okay. So quick and easy one for feels good, but it's actually bad. You know, accidentally just scrolling away until, like, five or 6AM.

卧槽。那确实太晚了。

Holy fuck. That's pretty late.

兄弟，真的很糟糕。然后我就会想，天啊都六点了。但要是再熬一小时就能撑过去对吧？

Dude, it's pretty bad. And then I'll be like, oh my god. It's 6AM. Oh, but what if, you know, I just give myself another hour, like, survive. Right?

还得反复确认第二天——其实已经是当天了——的起床时间。最糟的是这种情况总发生在工作日晚上。我边刷边想：明天还要上班我在干什么？结果第二天整个人像行尸走肉，后悔为什么要这样折磨自己。

Double check, like, when I have to wake up the next or actually that day, I guess. So that's a bad one because for some reason, it also always happens on school nights. And I'm always like, I gotta go to work. What am I doing? And the next day, I'm just a shell of myself, and I'm like, why did I do that to myself?

是啊。大学时我们有时会尝试彻底重置作息。

Yeah. I feel like back in college, sometimes we would try to do the full reset. Oh, Like,

哦，我们

oh, we're

反正都熬到六点了，不如直接撑到晚上九点。

up till six anyway. Might as well stay up till 9PM.

但那是年轻扛得住的时候。现在熬夜真的会感到骨头都在抗议。

Dude, but that was when we were young and we could handle it. I feel like now staying up late, you really feel it in your bones.

我知道。睡过头到一点多，简直要了我的命。

I know. Sleeping past like one, it kills me.

是啊，太难受了。我觉得另一个问题是，明明知道有些工作其实并不难，却一直逃避。最后就瘫在沙发上看电视。

Yeah. It's a lot. I think another one is knowing I have work to do that is honestly not even that difficult and then just avoiding it. And then I end up like on the couch and watching TV.

然后看的时候也根本享受不了，因为恐慌感会慢慢涌上来。

And then it's not even enjoyable to watch it I think because the panic starts to slowly rise.

没错。所以我觉得很多看似舒服实则有害的事，都是在逃避责任和自律。大概就是过度依赖情绪安抚，而忘了用理性去平衡。而那些感觉不好但实际有益的事，应该就是反其道而行之。

Yes. So yeah, I think a lot of the things that are just like feel good but are actually bad are just avoiding the responsibilities and avoiding that discipline. I guess it's like leaning in too hard on your emotions and trying to soothe that versus knowing to balance that with logic. Yeah. And so I guess like, you know, things that feel bad but are actually good would just kind of be the opposite.

对吧？比如逼自己起床干活，这样明天就会好受些，因为今天咬牙完成了任务。

Right? Like getting up and, you know, doing that work so you know tomorrow you will feel a little better because today you just sucked it up and, like, did the work.

对。

Right.

你呢？

How about you?

对我来说最灾难性的可能就是之前提到的深度消极思维。你说得对，我最大的应对机制就是放任自己沉溺情绪，完全不听理性声音。比如之前健康恐慌时，明明可以想：网上帖子都是个例，我又没医学背景，发帖人估计也没有，等专业医生诊断再说。

I think for me, my biggest catastrophes are probably, like, the deep spiral thoughts that I mentioned. And I think what you said is right. One of my biggest coping mechanisms is allowing myself to feel it too much, you know, and like not hearing the logical side of my brain. So the health scare that I had, for example, instead of being like, well, I'm just like reading random threads online. It's anecdotal evidence, and I have zero medical background, and these people probably don't either.

结果我却想着：天啊，这么多网友都说我肯定得了X病，只能活多少年了。我本该及时止损，却放任自己越陷越深。

So I'll just wait for a professional to look at my stuff before I freak out. But instead, I was like, oh my god. Like, I know all these people online said, like, they're confirming that I have disease x and I only have, you know, whatever number of years to live. I need to just cut it off and not allow myself to, like, indulge in that. But I think I just allow myself to go into it too deep.

老兄，这让我想起Reddit推荐的那些帖子——靠，我忘了那个版块叫啥了——就是人们发些伤口或健康问题照片问'这严重吗'，有时候确实是感染的红线症状。

Dude, that totally fucking reminds me of I sometimes get these Reddit suggested posts for oh my god. I'm forgetting what the subreddit name is. But it's basically people posting some wound or, like, injury or, yeah, health related thing, and they're like, is this bad? And sometimes it's like this red line that's like a sign of infection. Right.

然后看看热门评论总是这样：别在Reddit上发帖了，直接打电话给你的医生或者去医院。为什么你第一反应是停下来发到Reddit上，而不是直接开车去医院、急诊室之类的地方？

And then peep the top comments are always like, stop posting on Reddit and just call your doctor or like, go to the hospital. Why was your first thought to stop and post this on Reddit when you could have just like driven to the hospital, urgent care or something?

对啊，兄弟，我懂。明明有更合理的解决途径，但我觉得有些人就是会惊慌失措。嗯。或者可能是想要即时回应，而不是等待。

Right. Dude, I know. It's like there's a logical path forward, but I think it's just been some of us to like panic and freak out. Yeah. Or maybe it's about like wanting something instant response or something instead of waiting.

确实。作为一个同样有疑病症的人，我完全理解这种心态。我会花几个小时在网上搜索症状，然后结论总是：要么是我过度紧张，要么就是我快死了。

That's true. Yeah. I feel like as a fellow hypochondriac, I'm definitely that way too though. I'll like spend hours on the internet searching whatever is happening and then you're like, okay, so either I'm panicking or like I'm about to die.

没错兄弟。最近这次健康恐慌让我意识到，我总想在别人那里寻求对焦虑的认同——这不仅限于健康焦虑，也适用于生活中的很多事。嗯。

Yeah. Dude, I know. And I think one of the things that I've realized about myself with this most recent health scare, and I think this applies to beyond just health anxiety and like a lot of things that I experience in life. I think I tend to seek validation in my anxieties from other people. Mhmm.

即使别人说'我不确定这算不算严重'——不管是我发脸上的照片给他们看，还是讲述其他生活困扰——如果他们不认同我的恐惧...嗯...我还是会继续寻求认同。

And even when other people are like, I don't know. I don't know if this is like a big deal. Whether that's me sending them a picture of something on my face or like me talking about something else that I'm experiencing in my life. If they don't validate my fear Mhmm. I think I still go to like get it.

我明白了。

I see.

这其实是最糟糕的情况，因为你已经有了预设结论，只是在寻找佐证。而不是真正坐下来退一步思考，倾听对方有价值的观点。对方未必有全部答案，但当有人说'这没什么大不了'时...你永远做不到坦然接受。

And that's like one of the worst things that could happen because you basically have a theory or like a hypothesis and you're just looking for confirmation. Yeah. Instead of actually like sitting down and like taking a step back and listening to what valuable opinion the other person has to say. It's not always the case that the person you're talking to has all the answers, but it's just like, you know when people say, oh, it's not that big of a deal. Like, can never do that.

你会觉得这非常困难...

You're like It's very hard for

对我来说'没什么大不了'？那我就要找个认为这事严重的人。

me. It's not a big deal. Well, I will find someone who realizes it is a big deal.

我现在就要把这个发到Reddit上。

Let me put this on Reddit right now.

老兄，我觉得这不就是群体性癔症的开端吗？

Dude, I guess isn't that kind of how mass hysteria starts?

说真的，老兄？很可能就是。

Dude, honestly? Probably.

起初有人觉得，哦，这没什么大不了的。但讨论得越久，他们就会开始想，等等，你现在说服我了。

Someone at first is like, oh, I feel like this isn't a big deal. And then the longer you talk about it, they're like, wait, you're convincing me now.

我就说，对啊，我就是。记得也告诉你朋友们。

I'm like, yeah, I am. And tell your friends too.

你就像在说，这就是我高中选修说服性写作的原因。

You're like, this is why I took persuasive writing in high school.

我入错行了。我得立刻去创立个邪教。

I'm in the wrong career. I need to start a cult immediately.

是啊。不过我觉得这种行为很常见，因为我完全能想象自己也会有类似反应的时候。而且，对，这感觉也不是什么反常的举动或行为。但你有相反的例子吗？就是那些感觉不好但实际上有益的事？

Yeah. I feel like this behavior is very common, though, because I can totally see moments where I would react very similarly. And, yeah, like it doesn't feel like a abnormal action or behavior to have. But do you have any on the opposite spectrum where it's things that feel bad but are good?

我觉得运动对我帮助很大，虽然很不幸，因为要我出门活动得费很大劲。但真的，每次置身大自然，或者哪怕只是去健身房举铁什么的，都会让我感觉好很多。可能是荷尔蒙作用，或者体内产生的内啡肽什么的，稍微让自己累一点有助于平复纷乱的思绪，因为现在有其他事情可以专注了。我觉得就算是练腿日后的酸痛感，也能多一个分散注意力的点。

So I think one thing that really helps me is exercise, which is very unfortunate because it takes a lot in me to go out and, you know, do stuff. But Yeah. Anytime that I'm, like, out in nature or even just going to the gym and, lifting weights or something, it just makes me feel so much better. It's probably all of the hormonal or like I don't know what happens in your body like the endorphins that come up and tiring yourself out a little bit helps the racing thoughts slow down because now there's other things that I can focus on. And I think even something as simple as like feeling sore after leg day, it's just one more thing to think about.

这是我生活中发生的一件积极的事，让我不必陷入恶性循环。所以运动总是好的。另一件事可能有点恶心——当我情绪特别低落时，可能会跳过一两次洗澡。不过要说程度也不算特别过分，只是相比正常状态时，洗澡会感觉像项艰巨任务。每次跳过洗澡我都想，明天再说吧。

That's a positive thing that happened in my life that I don't have to spiral about. So exercise is always good. Another thing is, this might be a little gross, but when I'm like really down in the dumps, I might skip a shower or two. And it's never like super egregious, I will say, but it just feels like a much more monumental task than it is when I'm not down in the dumps. And every time I skip a shower, I'm like, you know, I'll just do it tomorrow.

也没那么糟，再等个六小时好了。但这样总会让我感觉很糟糕。而当我强迫自己洗澡后，感觉就好多了，就像整个人焕然一新，更清爽干净。

It's not that bad. I'll just wait like another six hours or something. It always makes me feel like shit. And when I do force myself to shower, it feels so much better. Like I just feel more refreshed, I feel cleaner.

所以我觉得像这样简单的事情真的也能影响我的情绪。

So I think something as simple as that can really affect my mood too.

老兄，其实我觉得我也有过类似经历，就是当我生病或状态不佳时，照顾自己感觉就像个艰巨任务。比如洗澡甚至刷牙这种事，感觉就像要翻越一座山。但过去我注意到，当我有点不舒服或状态不好时，我会拖延洗澡。而当我终于洗完澡时，我就会想，等等，我简直感觉又健康了。

Dude, actually I feel like I've experienced something similar where I feel like when I'm sick or not feeling great, taking care of yourself feels like such a monumental task. So, you know, showering or even, like, brushing your teeth, it just feels like such a hill to, like, climb. But then, like, I have noticed in the past where I'm, like, kinda sick or feeling under the weather, I put off showering. And when I finally shower, I'm like, wait. I literally feel healthy again.

是啊。就像空气都重新变得清新了。没错。

Yeah. It's like the air feels crisper again. Yeah.

我就会想，我为什么不早点洗澡呢？

I'm like, why didn't I just shower?

兄弟，我觉得清洁或卫生问题，无论是洗澡还是房间状态，总是会直接且立即地影响我。但如果我那天过得不好，或者感到压力很大不知所措时，我可能就不会打扫房间。

Dude, and it's just like, I think cleanliness or, like, hygiene in general, that's showering or even just the state of your room, that always affects me like very directly and immediately. But if I'm not having such a good day or if I'm feeling really stressed and overwhelmed, I'm probably not gonna clean my room.

嗯。

Mhmm.

很难保持那种平衡，比如我仍然想为自己留出时间，这样我可以做自己、感受情绪并放松。但如果我不做这些日常琐事，我就会感觉很糟糕。

It's hard to keep that balance of like, I still wanna carve out time for myself so that I could be myself and feel my emotions and relax. But also, if I don't do these day to day things, I'm gonna feel like shit.

是啊。这让我想起最近的一个想法。我当时躺在沙发上，心想，唉，我现在真是个懒虫。就是，你知道的，因为生活中那些有趣的活动而感到疲惫。但我想，我大概平均每三到四天就会吸一次尘。

Yeah. I'm actually reminded of a thought I had pretty recently. I was just, like, lying on my couch, and I was like, ugh, I'm such a bum right now. Just, you know, tired from all the fun activities in life that we've been having. But I was like, I probably vacuum every, like, three to four days on average.

但我感觉好像已经两周没吸尘了，这感觉有点像是打破了你的日常习惯，虽然可能是件小事，但你直到很久以后才会意识到。我当时想，唉，但我应该去吸尘，因为我知道做完后我会感觉更好。可是现在光是想到要站起来就觉得太难了。

But I was like, I feel like I haven't vacuumed in, like, two weeks, and that feels a little it's like breaking your routine, and it could, you know, be a pretty small thing, but you just don't realize it until it's much later. And I was like, ugh, but I should vacuum when I know I'll feel better after I do it. But, like, the idea of just getting up right now is too much.

我在想，感觉这么糟糕是不是因为就像你违背了对自己的承诺。你让自己失望了，尽管这对别人没有任何影响。

I wonder if it feels really bad because it's like you're breaking a promise with yourself. You're, like, letting yourself down even though there's no repercussions to other people.

我是说，这对我来说非常合理。

I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me.

你觉得你有什么随机学到的小窍门吗？能帮你摆脱低迷状态、重新回到正轨的那种？

Do you think you have any, like, random tricks that you learned that help you kind of break out of your funk and back into your routine?

我不确定这算不算窍门。等等。这么说吧，有两个方法。一个很糟糕，另一个还算合理。

I don't know if it's necessarily a trick. Wait. This okay. There's there's two. One's, like, really bad, and one's, like, you know, pretty reasonable.

先说糟糕的那个——就是彻底放纵自己。放纵到最糟的程度。嗯。然后你不得不对着镜子自问：我到底在干什么？

Okay. So the really bad one would just be, like, just go all in. Like, go as bad as you can go. Mhmm. And then you basically have to, like, look yourself in the mirror and be like, what am I doing?

你必须振作起来。这就是那个很糟的方法。但另一个有时对我有效的方法是：我突然会有种冲动，想大声播放音乐，随便什么情绪化的音乐，然后直接躺在地上。

You need to get yourself together. So that's, you know, the really bad one. But I think another one that sometimes helps me is I just, like, get this urge to, like, play loud music, like, whatever, emotional music, and I just lie on the ground.

等等，这也太好笑了吧。

Wait. That's hella funny.

比如在卧室就躺在床上，要是在客厅之类的地方，我就直接躺地板。

Like, if I do it in the bedroom, then I can lie on the bed. But if I'm in, like, the living room or something, I'll just lie on the ground.

具体哪种大声的音乐？就是普通音乐开大声，还是朋克摇滚那种嘶吼型的？

What kind of loud music? Normal music that you're playing loud, or is it, like, punk rock screamo type shit?

不是嘶吼那种，是悲伤的民谣或创作型歌手的曲子，其实什么都行，但通常是舒缓走心的类型。

Okay. Not screamo, but, like, sad, like singer songwriter ballad or like it could be anything really, but it's usually like chill and emotional.

我喜欢这个。我在想这是不是一种情绪外化的方式——不用言语表达或具体做什么，只要放首符合你心境的歌，你就会觉得'就是它了'。

I like that. Yeah. I wonder if that's like a form of you externalizing your emotions without you having to verbally say it or like do something specific. You can put on a song that batches what you're feeling and you're like this is it.

老兄，也许这首歌就是在替你说心声。对吧。那你呢？

Dude maybe the song is talking for you. Right. Yeah what about you?

我也有两个方法。第一个有点随机。当我连续几天情绪特别糟糕，什么都不想做，不想回消息，也不想出门时——真正能打破这种状态的，就是化妆。

So I have two as well. One is kind of random. If I'm really feeling like shit and there's multiple days where it's hard for me to get myself to do anything, I don't wanna respond to people's text messages, like, don't wanna go out. One of the things that will really break that is if I put makeup on.

哦，好吧好吧。

Oh, okay. Okay.

具体原理我说不清。可能因为化妆早已是我外出时的固定流程。就算在家，这个过程也能带来平静、熟悉感和快乐——我确实享受化妆，喜欢看镜子里盛装的自己。所以有时晚上九点我会化全妆，心情就能好转些。

And I don't know exactly what it is. Maybe it's because putting makeup on is so ingrained into my daily routine when I go out and do something. Even if I'm at home, like it brings me some sense of peace and familiarity and joy because I do like putting my makeup on and I do like seeing myself in the mirror all dolled up and stuff. So sometimes I'll do a full beat at 9PM. I'll just feel a little bit better.

等等，我完全理解这为什么有效。因为你几乎是在欺骗大脑，让它以为你要出门做事了。

Wait. I can totally see how that helps. Because you're you're almost, like, tricking your brain into thinking you're about to go do something.

没错。

Right.

就像巴甫洛夫的条件反射。

It's like the Pavlov response.

对，就像突然意识到：咦我怎么现在一副整装待发的样子？

Yeah. It's like, wait. Why am I ready for the day now? Yeah.

我觉得这很棒。化妆确实能让人平静，几乎像是一种冥想活动。

I feel like that's good. I can totally see what you mean about putting makeup on can be very, like, soothing, like, maybe almost a meditative activity.

确实如此。重复熟悉的步骤，看着妆容变化，双手忙碌着——整个触觉体验结合起来，有时真有种冥想感。大学情绪特别糟时，我每周都会无缘无故在晚上化一次妆。

Yeah, that's true. Going through the motions of something that I know so well and maybe it's also seeing that transformation and doing something with my hands, all of it together. It's like a very tactile experience. So it does feel kind of meditative sometimes. Dude, when this was bad in college, I used to do my makeup at night for no reason, once a week,

至少。我们本该出去的。

at least. We should have gone out.

确实。

True. It's

一直都是这样。你该给我们发消息说，嘿伙计们，我收拾好了，走吧。

always true. You should have texted us like, hey, guys. I got my face on. Let's go.

我觉得另一个对我奏效的小技巧可能更普适——有时我会觉得自己的问题很局限。比如因为常和附近朋友聚会而感到忙碌，或是即将到来的大假期让我压力山大，又或者有些人不适合听我抱怨灾难，我不想冒犯他们或让他们觉得给我添了负担。真正帮我的是和日常生活圈之外的人相处，那些与我的计划或生活琐事有一定距离的人。

I think my other easy trick that I like to do is probably more relatable for people. But sometimes I feel like my problems or my issues are very localized. Like I might feel really busy because I'm hanging out a lot with the people that live close to me or like I might have a big vacation coming up that's stressing me out or you know there's just people that I wouldn't want to complain about my catastrophe too I don't want to offend them or make them feel like they're stressing me out or whatever. So what really helps me is when I hang out with someone who say isn't in like my daily circle. Someone who's like more removed from my plans or more removed from what's going on in my life.

和他们倾诉总能让我平静下来，因为他们能共情却不会过度介入。就像聊家常一样自然过渡。比如和父母通话就很典型——由于他们住在外州，感觉像在笔友交流。其实任何非核心朋友圈的人都可以。

Talking to them about it, it just really calms me down because they can empathize, but it's not like a whole thing. You know, it's just like something that's happening in my life and then we move on. I think a good example of this is talking to your parents. At least when I call my parents since they don't live in state, I feel like I have a pen pal or something. Oftentimes, it can just be someone who's not in, like, my direct friend group.

嗯。之后总会感觉好很多。

And Mhmm. I just feel so much better after.

这个逻辑很通。我完全理解那种活动扎堆却没法向主办方朋友抱怨的困境——毕竟他们就是活动组织者，怎么好意思吐槽？

I think that makes a lot of sense. Can totally relate with having a lot of upcoming events, but it's like, oh, well, if the people I normally complain to and whine with are the ones hosting these, like, how

有时候这像事后复盘。比如我的健康恐慌或其他人生插曲，当我和几个月未见的人叙旧时，可以用轻松甚至搞笑的方式回顾曾经痛苦的时刻。即便风波已过，这种与局外人的复盘仍让我释怀——就像在说：好了，这一章翻篇了。

dare I? And sometimes it's also like a post mortem in a sense where my health scare, for example, or like, you know, whatever thing that happened in my life. When I talk to someone and catch up with them the first time in a couple months, I can look back and talk about a time that was very painful to me in a funny way or in a way that's not as serious. So even if that moment has passed and I'm like, okay now, that debrief with someone who's more removed makes me feel so much better. Because I'm like, okay.

现在甚至能笑着谈起，尽管当时我慌得要命。

This chapter is closed. Yeah. And we can laugh about it even though at one point I was like, fucking freaking.

等等，太真实了！回看那些危机时刻总会想：天啊当初为什么那么焦虑？现在不都好好的嘛。

Wait. That's so true. Like, when we look back at these catastrophes and crises, you're like, wow, why was I so worked up at the Like, it's all good now.

老兄，确实。有时候会遇到一些比较严重的问题。比如大学四年级时，我不知怎么算错了学分，以为自己学分不够，当时就慌了，心想可能没法按时毕业了。

Dude, yeah. Sometimes there could be an issue that is somewhat serious. For example, senior year of college, I had this moment for some reason where I miscounted my credits. And I thought I had too few credits. And I started freaking out because I was like, I don't think I can graduate on time.

现在想想其实没什么大不了的。无非多花点钱，工作晚开始几个月，总能补救的。又不是永久性损失，对吧？嗯。

Which if you think about it, not the biggest deal in the world. It's a little bit more money and you might start your job a little bit later, but you can recover from it. You know? It's not like a permanent loss. Mhmm.

但当时我他妈经历了最严重的一次焦虑发作，简直是生理性的恐慌。现在回头看就觉得，虽然事情是挺严重，但至于那么夸张吗？

However, in that moment, I fucking had the worst anxiety attack ever. It was like a physical anxiety attack for me. Looking back at it now, I'm like, okay. I get that it was like a serious thing, but why did I do all of that?

等等，最搞笑的是你其实提前毕业了。

Wait. The funniest part is you actually graduated early.

对啊，简直了。我当时就懵了，这数学是体育老师教的吧兄弟。

Yeah. Literally. I was like, what the fuck? That counting go crazy, dude.

就是，你突然发现：等等，我其实提前一个学期修完了。各位拜拜咯。

Yeah. You're like, wait. Actually, I finished a quarter early. Bye everyone.

我后来又说：等等伙计们，我又算错了。

I'm like, wait, guys. I miscounted again.

没错。这种回忆让我特别能共鸣那些梗图——我的身体根本分不清明天要交的作业和森林里追我的狼有什么区别。太真实了。

Yeah. And I guess, like, these moments of looking back just really makes me laugh at those memes where it's like, my body really can't tell the difference between an assignment due tomorrow and, like, a wolf chasing me through the woods. Yes.

太对了。

So true.

我就觉得：靠，你说得太准了，我也是这样。

And I'm like, damn. You fucking right. Like, same.

我也喜欢那种状态，就像我喝了太多咖啡时的样子。总会让我焦虑发作，然后第二天我又会喝更多咖啡。

I also like the ones that are, like, me when I have too much coffee. It always gives me an anxiety attack, and then me the next day, like, has more coffee.

我们从来没有。好吧。

We never Okay.

但我还有个问题想问

But I do have another question for

你。嗯哼。

you. Mhmm.

我有个理论认为人不可能永远处于危机状态。除非日常生活中发生非常严重的创伤性事件，我觉得人不可能一直处于危机模式。每个人在灾难之间都有自己的恢复期。嗯哼。所以对某些人来说可能只有一天，但至少你有那么一天的喘息时间。

I have this theory that you can't always be in a crisis. Barring very serious traumatic life events in your day to day life, I feel like you can't always be in crisis mode. Everyone has their own refractory period in between like catastrophes. Mhmm. So for some people, it might just be like a day, but at least you have that like day of break.

对吧？对其他人来说可能是几周。你觉得你的恢复期是多久？你这些危机大概多久发生一次？

Right? For other people, it might be a couple weeks. So what do you think yours is? Like how often are you having these crises?

老兄，说实话最近真的挺频繁的。如果我的恢复期只有一天怎么办？

Dude, I mean lately, I can't lie. It's kind of a lot. What if my refractory period is just a day?

但这是每天都会发生的。

But it's daily.

是啊。实际上每小时都在发生。天啊。要说最近的话大概是每周一次，因为就像我说的，我觉得自己从社交义务中获得的独处/恢复时间总是不够。

Yeah. It's actually hourly. Oh my god. Well, I would say probably the latest one. It's weekly because, as I mentioned, I just feel like I haven't had enough alone time slash recovery time from social obligations.

所以我觉得在工作日里，当我更专注于上班和处理各种待办事项时，危机感大概只有20%的活跃度。懂吗？回到家我就觉得，唉，我好累。

So I feel like during the weekdays where I'm just more focused on, you know, going to work and getting whatever needs to be done done. The crisis is in, like, 20% active. You know? I come home and I'm like, yeah. I'm tired.

我打算放松一下。但这不算真正的休息，因为我知道明天还潜伏在阴影里。然后周末来临，就像一场危机，因为虽然我要和朋友玩乐，但我其实很累。所以现在可能是每周一次的状态。

I'm gonna take it easy. But it's not true rest because I know I have tomorrow lurking in the in the shadow. And then come the weekend, it then it's like crisis because it's like, I'm gonna have fun with friends, but, like, I'm tired. So maybe, like, right now, it's weekly.

好吧。每周一次还算合理。我觉得这是个不错的恢复周期。你说得对，当情况特别糟糕时，基本上每天都是这样。

Okay. Weekly is fair enough. I think that's, like, a pretty decent refractory period. And I think you're right. When times are super crazy, it is basically like every day.

也许你的危机本身实际上长达三个月

And maybe your crisis itself is actually like three months long

之类的。是啊。

or something. Yeah.

对我来说，如果是具体事件，一两周似乎比较正常。比如上周经历了危机，这周工作日我就会感觉特别好。懂吗？因为我已经熬过了危机。

For me, if I'm talking about specific incidents, I think a week to two weeks seems about normal. If I had a crisis last weekend, for example, these weekdays, I'm going to feel so good. You know? Because I'm over the crisis.

哦，确实。

Oh, yeah.

我正处于恢复期。从谷底往上爬的阶段。所以大概再需要一周左右，我就准备好再次崩溃了。

I'm in, like, recovery mode. I'm on the come up from rock bottom, you know? So then I think it takes me about another week or so to feel ready to crash out again.

哦，好吧。其实你说得对。当我想到那些特别尖锐或强烈的灾难时，

Oh, okay. Actually, you're right. When I'm thinking about, like, really pointed or intense catastrophes,

没错，

yeah,

确实会有那种劫后余生的快感，觉得'天啊我们活下来了，现在生活太美好了'。记得我有次穿孔一直愈合不好，让我很困扰焦虑。我就持续为此抓狂，直到最后下定决心。好吧。

there is that like, the high after where you're like, Oh my god, we survived. Life is so good right now. I remember one of my piercings wasn't healing very well and it was causing me a lot of trouble and anxiety. And I would just like continuously freak out about it until finally I just committed. Okay.

那段日子简直疯狂，我几乎每月都要去找穿孔师复查一次，就像在问：恢复得怎么样？愈合情况好些了吗？他们总说：是的，继续坚持，看起来好多了。

It was a crazy cycle because I would go to my piercer almost once a month to, like, check on it. I was like, how am I doing? Is the healing looking better? They're like, yeah, just keep at it. It looks a lot better.

你知道，我们相信这个能愈合。然后感觉会稍微好些，我就想：好吧，还能再坚持坚持。

You know, we believe that this can heal. And then it would feel a little better. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. We can hang in there.

但一周后我又会崩溃：不行，我撑不下去了。直到某天终于下定决心摘掉那个穿孔。老兄，之后我爽翻了整整一个月，那种解脱感持续了好久。

But then, like, a week later, I'd be like, no. I can't do this anymore. And then I finally one day just committed to getting rid of that piercing. And dude, I felt so good after that for like, probably a month. I was riding that high for so long.

卧槽太对了！兄弟，这真不是错觉。当你从那种灾难性状态中挣脱出来时，确实会感觉超棒。

Oh hell yeah. Dude, no, it's actually a thing. I think you actually feel so good after you sort of pull yourself out of that catastrophe.

嗯。我觉得如果那次'胜利'还记忆犹新，回想起来就能再给你打次鸡血——就像现在，老子简直刀枪不入。

Mhmm. And I feel like sometimes if that, I guess, triumph is recent enough, you can think back on it and it gives you another little boost. You're like, dude, I'm untouchable right now.

你就像在说，我简直不敢相信这就是我解决的问题。

You're like, I can't believe this was this problem that I resolved.

没错。你会觉得，老子真是个天才。我搞定了。现在一切都好了。是的。

Yeah. You're like, I'm a fucking genius. I got through it. Like, we're good now. Yeah.

我能应对任何扑面而来的问题。

I can handle any problem that comes at me.

老兄，这简直像场旋风。事情完全180度大转弯，因为...至少对我来说，在灾难中的情绪远没有这么积极。嗯。消极的自我对话会非常糟糕，我会不断想着最坏的情况。

Dude, what a whirlwind. It's literally one eighty degrees because Yeah. I know, at least for me, my emotions during a catastrophe is nowhere near as positive. Mhmm. The negative self talk can be so bad, and I can just constantly be thinking about, like, the worst things.

我注意到我的灾难应对模式。对吧？如果是特别糟糕的事件，通常一开始会有个极度恐慌的时刻。

And what I noticed is with my catastrophe. Right? If it's, a really bad event, there's usually a big panic moment in the beginning.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后到了中期阶段，我就会开始做最坏情况的预案。当我能开始笑对时，我就知道已经熬过最艰难的部分了。嗯。当有人讲笑话我能笑出来的时候。但在那之前，情况都很糟，你懂吗？

And then towards like the middle is where I start to do like all my worst case scenario planning. And I know I'm over the hump when I can start laughing about it. Mhmm. When someone can say a joke and I can, like, crack a laugh. But up till that point, it's bad, you know?

哦，这是个很好的分水岭。你不是真的在哭。你是那种，哦，好吧。但我有个关于笑出来之前那个阶段的问题。

Oh, that's a good checkpoint. You're not just but actually crying. You're like, oh, Yeah. Okay. But I have a question about the phase before the laughter.

有没有糟糕到让你觉得它真的在阻碍你生活的地步？

Does it ever get so bad you feel like it is, like, literally holding you back from life?

我觉得确实有些时候我只是机械地应付工作。

I think I've definitely felt times where I was going through the motions at work.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我当时就想，我生活中发生这种事，居然还要朝九晚五工作。嗯。当然，那些与实际重大生活事件相关的更严重问题往往影响更大。比如我的健康焦虑不会让我无法工作。但如果我真的有健康问题而非虚惊一场，那确实可能让我丧失工作能力。

And I was like, I can't believe I'm expected to work at this nine to five when this thing is going on in my life. Mhmm. And of course, like, the more serious things that are like linked to actual big life events tend to do that more. My health anxiety isn't going to stop me from working, for example. But if I had a true health problem that wasn't like a scare, I could totally see that becoming debilitating for me.

我觉得要看情况。幸运的是，我还没遇到过严重到让我完全无法工作的情况。但要说的是，我的危机对社交生活的影响往往比工作来得更快。如果我真的陷入困境，就会开始推掉社交安排之类的。

I think it just depends. Luckily, I haven't had anything so serious where it makes me like unfunctional as a person like at work. But I will say my crises can definitely affect my social life a lot quicker than it affects work. If I'm really going through it, I will start to pull out of, like, social plans and stuff.

好吧。但还有个问题。工作有没有变成过一种逃避方式？哦。对。

Okay. But actually, another question. Does work ever become a distraction? Oh. Yeah.

就像影视剧里常有的桥段，当逃避感情问题时就埋头工作。这种情况真的会发生吗？工作变成唾手可得的逃避方式？

Like, you know, it's kind of cliche in, shows and stuff sometimes where it's like, yeah, I just throw myself into work when I am avoiding my, like, love life troubles or something. But does that ever happen? Like, work becomes an accessible distraction?

我觉得我经历过那种情况，但最多也就一天左右。嗯，你懂吧？我不会连续一个月都拼命工作。但可能在特别难熬的日子里，当我不想思考其他烦心事时，可能会稍微多投入一点工作。

I think I've experienced that, but no more than, like, a day. Mhmm. You know? Like, I'm not gonna be, like, fucking grinding for, like, a month straight. But maybe on, like, a really tough day where I don't wanna think about all this other stuff, I might, like, lean in a little bit more into work.

嗯，你呢？

Mhmm. How about you?

真希望我能做到。有时候我在想，要是我能像认识的某些人那样把工作当作分散注意力的方式，我可能会超级高效。而且我也好奇这是否真的能帮你更快摆脱情绪低谷——因为完成工作任务时，那种小小的血清素飙升或成就感，说不定积累足够多这样的积极感受后，就能让你更有勇气面对生活的其他部分。

I wish I did. Sometimes I'm like, wow. If I could use work as a distraction as well as some people I know are capable of, I could be super productive. And I wonder sometimes too if it actually helps you get out of your funk a little faster because there are moments when you complete tasks at work that, you know, give you that little burst of serotonin or, like, sense of accomplishment. And I wonder sometimes maybe if you get enough of that positive feeling, it helps you feel more ready to tackle the other parts of your life.

啊，这观点太棒了。我觉得这其实取决于团队氛围和工作文化，但很多时候你和同事之间会有种联结。这些人每周要交流好几次，即使你生活里遇到糟心事，他们还是能把你锚定在工作上。有时候我过得特别惨，结果同事突然来句'天啊太感谢你发这个了，你太棒了'...

Oh, actually that is such a good point. Sometimes I think I mean it depends really on your team or your work culture and stuff, but I think oftentimes you have this like bond with your coworkers. These are people that you talk to multiple times a week and even if things are going on in your life, they are still someone who kind of like anchors you to work. And sometimes I'll have like a shit day where I'm like going through it and then my coworker will be like, Oh my god, like thanks so much for sending this. You're awesome.

我就感觉被治愈了一点，就像...

And I'll feel healed a little You're like,

不客气。

You're welcome.

我通常会说'别谢我'。不过你提到个重点——虽然工作常让人觉得是义务和责任，但往往它也能以某种方式成为快乐的源泉。

I'm like, No, thank you. But I think you bring up a good point where sometimes work feels like just like an obligation and like a duty, but oftentimes it does become a source of joy in some ways.

我个人很容易忘记小胜利带来的美好感觉。而这些小胜利在工作中其实挺容易获得的...

I think it's really easy for me personally to forget about how good small wins can sometimes feel. And sometimes those small wins are pretty easily found at work. You

对吧？

know? Right.

比如发完那封邮件、划掉待办清单的小任务、在项目上前进一小步。或许我以后该多关注这些瞬间。

Sending that email, getting a small task done off the checklist, you know, taking one small step on in a project. You know, maybe I will try to look towards that in the future.

下次我们遇到健康恐慌时，就会想，我们该工作吗？

Next time we have, like, a health scare, we're like, should we work?

比如说，如果我发一封邮件会怎样？

Like, what if I sent an email?

我一手拿着粉底刷，另一手拿着工作笔记本。

I have, like, a foundation brush in one hand and my work laptop in another.

不过确实，我觉得很多事都关乎平衡，因为我也能看到如果过于投入工作，它完全可能变成一种不健康的逃避方式，而其他一切都被忽视了。

But, yeah, I feel like a lot of this is really about balance because I can also see how work can totally become an unhealthy distraction too if throw you yourself into it too hard and everything else is being neglected.

有时候我觉得平衡特别难，因为根本无从判断。生活里没有天平或百分比这种东西，所以很难说什么时候你做到了完美平衡，什么时候没有。

It's one of those things where sometimes I feel like balance is so hard because I just have no idea. There's not like a scale or anything. Mhmm. And there's no percentages when it comes to life. So it's hard to tell when you're perfectly balancing something and not.

但我认为这可能是随着年龄增长而逐渐掌握的一种能力。嗯。确实感觉比如现在比二十出头时更稳定了些。嗯。所以能见证并体验这种成长是件好事，尽管仍有很长的路要走。

But I think this is probably a skill that comes with like aging in a sense. Mhmm. I do feel like I'm a little bit more stable than I was in my early twenties, for example. Mhmm. So it's nice to see and experience a little bit of that growth even though there's much more to grow still.

是啊。我当时的反应是：什么叫我要自己琢磨每天该用多少情绪和逻辑？

Yeah. I'm like, what do you mean I just have to figure out how much emotion and logic to use in my day to day?

字面意思就是这样。你之前提到有时必须触底反弹，然后和自己来场镜子前的对话。但你觉得这对你来说容易吗？比如在脑海里自我对话，或者列个心理清单，让自己坐下来承认：嘿，这样不行，我们不能再这样下去了。

Literally. And you mentioned earlier, sometimes you just have to hit rock bottom and then like have one of those mirror conversations with yourself. But you think that comes easily for you? Like having a sort of mental conversation or maybe like a mental checklist with yourself to sit yourself down and be like, hey, this is not okay. We can't be doing this.

我觉得某种程度上我能意识到发生了什么。但就像，头脑明白了，身体会听话吗？

I think kind of in the sense where I can recognize, you know, what's happening. But like, the mind knows, but does the body obey?

确实。最近我有过几次状态不佳的时候，整个周末都动弹不得，连买菜做家务都做不到。现在和丈夫共同生活，共享婚姻，我的习惯和情绪波动会影响身边的人。我发现自己经常陷入消极的自我对话中。

True. So recently, I've had some moments where I'm just not feeling that great and then I'm basically immobile for a weekend and like unable to get myself to grocery shop and do chores and whatnot. I think, you know, I live with my husband now and we like share this married life. My habits and like my episodes affect other people around me, you know? I think I'm someone who struggles a lot with like negative self talk.

嗯。整个周末当我表现得很糟糕时，我会不停对自己说'你真是个废物'，'你不该这样'，'你只会摆烂'之类的。你肯定能想象那种持续不断的自我指责声浪。当我向詹姆斯道歉说'对不起，我知道我最近像人间蒸发了一样，什么都没做'时。

Mhmm. Where the entire weekend when I'm being a shitter, I'll be like, you're such a shitter and like, you shouldn't be doing this. All you do is whatever. And I'm sure you can like fill in the rest, but it's just like a constant audio stream of that. When I apologize to James, and I'm like, sorry, I know I've been like so MIA, like I know I haven't done this.

他总是说'没关系，你应该休息'之类非常温柔的话，能穿透我的消极自我对话。我注意到只要他这么说，我就会立刻有动力重新振作起来。但在他开口前，我就只会不停苛责自己，这根本激励不了我。

He always says, that's okay, you should rest. Or like something very kind that breaks through my negative self talk. And I noticed like the moment he says that, I feel motivated to like get up and do stuff again. But until he says that, it's just me berating myself. So it doesn't motivate me.

所以我最近试着玩个小把戏，当陷入这种状态时，我会告诉自己'你值得这段休息时间'或者'这样没关系'，试着在一小时内摆脱这种状态，对自己温柔些。就像那个什么驴子胡萝卜的比喻？没错，我就是个需要胡萝卜激励的人。

So I've been trying to like game that a little bit and when I go through stuff, I'm like, okay, like you deserve this rest or like, you know, this is okay. Just try to break out of it in like an hour or something and like be a little bit more kind because what is it like donkey stick carrot something something like that? Yeah. I'm like a carrot based person.

我懂你的意思，完全理解。

I know what you're saying. I know what you mean.

不过我想说的是，学会允许自己感受这些情绪波动，对我来说也是个重要的成长课题。

But yeah, I guess what I'm just trying to say is learning to allow myself to, like, feel these things or, like, you know, even have these emotional ups and downs is a big learning for me too.

确实。因为压抑情绪没有帮助，但完全沉溺在情绪里也不是最有效的做法。

That's true. Because it's, like, also ignoring your emotions is not gonna help just as fully throwing yourself into the emotion is also not gonna be the most productive thing.

对啊，你不能指望靠整天骂自己来促成改变。

Yeah. You can't just, like, yell at yourself all the time and expect change to happen, I think.

嗯。

Yeah.

那你觉得在快三十岁时，有没有解锁什么帮助自己走出困境的新领悟？

But do you think you have any new learnings and stuff that you've unlocked in your late twenties for getting yourself out of a catastrophe?

其实我和心理医生做过相关练习。她让我整整一周完全听从情绪，不要用任何理性思考，然后向她汇报感受。结果...确实不太妙。

Actually, I did do an exercise with my therapist regarding this stuff. My therapist actually told me for one week, she was like, just fully listen to your emotions. Don't use any logic, and then report back to me and tell me how it went. And I was like, yeah. It was, like, not good.

然后她说，好吧。下次就直接全情投入逻辑部分，再告诉我效果如何。我当时就觉得，那样也不行。于是我们开始讨论平衡的问题，其实就是不断尝试调整，看看哪种感觉最好。随着生活中事情的变化，这种平衡可能也会有所改变。

And then she was like, okay. The next time, just go fully in on the logic and then tell me how that goes. And I was like, that was also not good. So then we started talking about the balance aspect, and it's just constantly playing around with it and seeing what ends up feeling the best. And as things in your life changes, maybe that balance also changes a bit.

说得好。

Good point.

然后我就想，好吧。看来这事没有捷径可走，我们只能踏踏实实去做。

And I was like, okay. So I guess there's no shortcut here. We just gotta do the work.

老兄，这就像金发姑娘编程法则，但我觉得这个观点太棒了。这让我想起最近刚买的新烹饪书。你知道书开头总有些小贴士，比如'我的厨房法则'之类的。其中有一条是关于烹饪时间的。

Dude, it's so like Goldilocks code it, but I mean, it's such a good point. It actually reminds me. I just got a new cookbook recently. And you know how in the beginning they always have like little blurbs or like, oh laws in my kitchen. And one of the things that they put in there was cooking time.

这位作者说，她去烹饪学校学习时发现，不像普通食谱写着'煎鱼12到16分钟'，烹饪学校的指导是'把鱼煎熟为止'。她说这可能会让人觉得奇怪，因为我们习惯用具体数字来硬性规定，但很多时候你就是得不断检查——这才是最好的判断方法。我当时就觉得，虽然理智上知道这很有道理，但作为读者，我内心在呐喊：我需要数字！我需要精确的时间！

And this person said, I went to culinary school and instead of being like, oh, cook the fish for twelve to sixteen minutes like we often see in recipes, the instructions at culinary school are like, cook the fish until it's done. And she was like, you may find this to be very weird because we're very used to like hard coding stuff to numbers and whatnot, but oftentimes you just have to like keep checking it That's the best way to know. I was just like, dude, I know in my head this is really profound and factual, but as a reader, I was like, I need numbers. I need like an exact duration.

是啊。就像在问：今天是40%情感60%逻辑？还是30%逻辑70%情感？各位给个准话呗。

Yeah. You're like, so today, is it 40% emotion and 60% logic? Is it like 30% logic and 70% emotion? Let me know, guys.

我需要个每日情绪天气预报之类的

I need like a daily weather forecast or

什么的。天啊，那也太有用了。

something. Oh my god. That would be so helpful.

对吧？不过说正经的，我从中学到的就是你必须时刻保持自我觉察，更重要的是要接受不确定性——无论是未来的不确定性，还是具体平衡点的不确定性，即便很难也要每天随性调整。希望听众们能有共鸣。如果你正在经历人生低谷，我和Crystal很可能也正在经历同样的困境。欢迎随时联系我们。

Right? But I think jokes aside, the lesson that I'm taking away here is just you just have to be in touch with yourself all the time and more importantly, be okay with not knowing whether it's not knowing the future, not knowing what the exact balance is, just kind of vibing it out every day as hard as that is. So hopefully, this was relatable for any of our listeners out there. If you're going through a catastrophe, me and Crystal probably are too at that same exact moment. So feel free to hit us up.

我们的Instagram账号是@eatyourcrisppod，邮箱是eatyourcrisppod@gmail.com。

We have Instagram at eat your crisp pod, and we also have email eatyourcrisppod@gmail.com.

别忘了在苹果播客、Spotify或你收听播客的任何平台关注我们。我们每隔周三上午都会上传新节目。

And don't forget to follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We upload new episodes every other Wednesday morning.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.

还有别忘了吃你的Krispod零食。

And don't forget to eat your Krispod.