应对倦怠

就这样。

Period.

是的，我

Yeah, I

说得太好了。

love that.

其他成员有意见还是没意见。

Op or no Op from the rest of the crew.

我没有意见，因为我说不出那么有说服力的话。

I got no Op because I'm not gonna say anything as eloquent.

人们知道那是知道什么

People know that's knows what

历史。

the history.

那就是

That's what

我写了

I wrote

那本书。

that book.

写了这本书，《埃利斯是时间机器》。

Wrote the book, The Ellis Is An A Time Machine.

当我了解到米尔德里德·卢瑟福时，我浑身发冷。

Like when I learned about Mildred Rutherford, she had my skin crawl.

所以你们真的让一位女性进入教科书，说：我们不这么说，我们要这么说，只是为了维护。

So y'all actually had a woman go into the textbooks and say, We're not gonna say this, we're gonna say this just to uphold.

对于不了解‘败局命定论’洗脑的人，回去看看《一个国家的诞生》，第一部在白宫放映的电影，就在重建时期。

And for people who don't know what the lost cause indoctrination is, go back and watch Birth of a Nation, the very first Birth of a Nation, which was the first movie that played in the White House, right, during Reconstruction.

这部电影描绘了白人涂黑脸，恐吓美国人民。

And the movie was of white men in blackface terrorizing the people of America.

而三K党前来拯救美国人，因为在重建期间，他们讲述的‘败局命定论’故事是：他们终于让奴隶和有色人种参与政府，让他们肆意掌权，因此需要三K党来拯救美国人民，免受黑人强奸和掠夺的威胁。

And the Ku Klux Klan came to save Americans because after, well during Reconstruction, the story they told of the Lost Cause was that they finally allowed slaves and people of color to be a part of the government, and they ran the government rampant, and they needed the KKK to come save the people of America from the black men that were raping and stealing.

这就是‘败局命定论’的灌输。

That's the Lost Cause Indoctrination.

邦联是为了州权，而不是为了奴隶制。

The fact that the Confederacy was about states' rights, and it wasn't about slavery.

所以他们一直在试图给一代代人灌输邦联是为了拯救美国的思想。

So what they're continuously doing is trying to indoctrinate generations that the Confederacy was here to save America.

而不是说他们实际上是试图分裂联邦并失败的叛国者。

Not that they were pretty much treasonous people who tried to separate from the union and lost.

最重要的一点是，邦联输掉了内战，但他们从来不愿谈论自己战败的事实。

The biggest thing is that the Confederacy lost the war, the Civil War, and they never wanted to talk about them losing the war.

所以我认为人们需要理解教育部在历史问题上的立场，以及它对我们人民的影响，而不仅仅是资金问题。

So I think it's important for people to understand where the Department of Education sits when it comes to history and our people not just about funds.

因为他们会给我们的人民提供资金，却让某些人以错误的方式教育他们。

Because they will give our people funds and then have someone educate them incorrectly.

所以这只是我个人的看法。

So that's that's just my opinion on it.

你

You

你明白我的意思吗？

know what I'm saying?

但我的意思是，我们从来不用教科书。

But I mean, we've never relied on the textbooks.

从来不用。

Ever.

我们的孩子都有家教和导师。

All of our kids have tutors and mentors.

即使我们没钱的时候，帕丁和德瓦尔也和杰克逊一起出现在那本书里。

Like, even when we didn't have money, Padine and DeVal was in that book with Jackson.

我就是通过这种方式了解了这么多东西。

That's how I learned about so much of this stuff.

你得拿起这本书读一读。

You gotta pick up this book and read it.

我妈妈，是的。

My mom, yeah.

我正要说，DeVal的妈妈刚来探望孩子们，我正好买了这些小闪卡，都是关于黑人历史之类的。

I was about to say DeVal's mom was just here visiting with the boys and I had gotten these little flash cards that are just like black history flash cards and stuff like that.

她眼睛一下子亮了。

Her eyes lit up.

她说，是的，我想和孩子们一起看看这些卡片，因为你们妈妈亲身经历过。

She was like, yeah, I wanna go over some of these with the kids because your mom lived through

我妈妈经历过那个时代的尾声。

My mom lived through the end

她在布鲁克林。

of She was in Brooklyn

到了六十年代末、七十年代初，种族隔离终于结束了。

and they had finally ended segregation in the late 60s, early 70s.

她是第一批进入马里纳学校上学的黑人孩子之一。

And she was one of the first group of black kids to go to school in Marina.

融合了，是的。

Integrated, yep.

他们每天都被赶出那些学校。

And they were chased out of those schools every single day.

所以我妈对教育非常认真。

So my mom doesn't play when it comes to education.

这就是我成为今天这样的原因。

That's why I am the way I am.

这也是我如此支持黑人群体的原因。

And that's also why I'm so pro black.

还有历史，是的。

And history, yeah.

因为这段历史活在我体内。

Because that history lives in me.

对我来说，这不仅仅是观点。

Like this to me isn't just opinions.

这些是我妈妈确保我知道的事实。

These are facts that my mom made sure I knew.

所以教育部，我从不依赖它。

So Department of Education, I never rely on that.

我妈妈过去总是参加所有会议，讨论资金问题。

My mom used to sit in all of the meetings and talk about funding.

为什么这些资金一点都不投入到艺术或其他方面？

How come none of this funding is going towards arts or going towards this?

我妈妈过去参加这些会议时总会说：这不对劲。

My mom used to sit in the meetings and be like, This ain't right.

我意识到，联邦政府在教育我们的人民和孩子方面，权力并没有人们想象的那么大。

And I realized the federal government doesn't have the amount of power people think they have when it comes to educating our people and our kids.

所以家长们，如果你们在听，就自己动手吧。

So parents, if you listen in, hand it out yourself.

别把这件事完全交出去

Don't even leave And that up to

想象一下那些必须工作的父母，尤其是独自抚养多个孩子的单亲父母。

just imagine parents who have to work, single parents who have multiple children

而且，还有

don't Plus, have

前几天我看到一个令人震惊的数据。

this was an alarming stat that I read the other day.

56%的美国成年人的阅读水平低于六年级。

Fifty six percent of American adults have a reading level below sixth grade.

所以很多父母

So a lot of parents

这让你感到震惊吗？真的这么严重吗？

Is that shocking to you really trouble?

不，这并不令人惊讶，我只是想说，很多父母甚至没有足够的能力去教导孩子。

No, it's not shocking but I'm just saying a lot of parents don't even have the intelligence to teach their children

这就是为什么我们要

and that's why we're gonna

拥有它。

have it.

因此，在这个时代，我们必须依靠社区，确保我们的孩子不被落下。

So we have to really rely on community in this time to try to make sure that our kids don't get left behind.

你刚才说的这个问题，我并不感到意外。

That's a problem of what you just said and it doesn't surprise me.

56%的人如此认为，因为大多数人并不重视学校或教育。

56% believe because most people don't value school or education.

在我们父母那一代，很多时候他们无法接受教育。

In our parents generation a lot of times they couldn't.

他们不得不做出其他选择。

They had to make other choices.

这是真的。

That is true.

当我想到我的祖母时，我的祖母没能上高中。

When I think about my grandmother, my grandmother couldn't go to high school.

她得照顾她的兄弟姐妹，因为他们一共有六个孩子，而她是最大的。

She had to take care of her siblings because there was six of them and she was the oldest.

所以这是一个非常合理的观点。

So that is a very valid point.

回到倦怠这个话题，我最近看到一个TikTok视频，一位名叫克莱尔·阿什利的医生。

And back on the subject of burnout, I saw a TikTok recently, a woman named Doctor.

克莱尔·阿什利谈论倦怠，她说平均需要一到三年才能从倦怠中恢复。

Claire Ashley talking about burnout and she said that it takes on average one to three years to recover from burnout.

但她提到倦怠有五个阶段，可以帮助你更快地识别倦怠，以便尽快采取措施恢复。

But she said there's five stages of burnout that can help you identify burnout quickly quicker so that you can recover quicker just in case.

所以你有兴趣听一听吗？

So are you interested in hearing?

我非常想听。

I would love to hear it.

这简直是完美的过渡。

It's the perfect segue.

好吧。

Well, all right.

第一阶段是蜜月期。

Stage one is the honeymoon phase.

她说，这是当你开始一份新工作时，你非常兴奋。

She said this is when you start a new job, you're really excited.

因为太兴奋了，你可能会承担比自己实际能处理更多的工作。

And so because you're so excited, you might take on more work than you actually can handle.

想证明自己。

Trying to prove yourself.

想证明自己，对工作充满热情，乐意去做事情。

Trying to prove yourself excited about the work excited to do thing.

是的。

Yeah.

然后这会带你进入第二阶段，即压力的初期。

And then that will lead you into phase two, which is the onset of stress.

这时你会开始注意到事情变得更有压力，或者你经历的压力日多于非压力日。

This is when you start to notice that things becoming more stressful or you start to have more stressful days than non stressful days.

你开始意识到自己可能变得越来越沮丧。

And you start to notice that you might be getting frustrated.

你可能会感到有点不知所措，这可能导致慢性压力。

You might be feeling a little bit overwhelmed and that can lead to chronic stress.

如果你此时不采取任何措施，就会进入第三阶段，即慢性压力。

You don't do anything about it at that point, it will lead to the third phase which is chronic stress.

当你处于慢性压力状态时，会影响你的专注力，降低工作效率，并让你感到更加不堪重负。

And this when you're chronically stressed it affects your ability to concentrate your less productive and you feel more overwhelmed overwhelmed.

是的，这会导向第四阶段，即真正的倦怠，这时冷漠感真正开始显现，你会与朋友、家人以及自己的情绪产生疏离。

Yeah, and then that leads to the fourth stage, which is actual burnout where this is where the apathy really kicks in you're feeling detached from your friends detached from your family detached from your emotions.

是的，与工作也产生疏离，并伴随着一种深层次的疲惫感。

Yeah, detached from the work and you're feeling a level of exhaustion that goes along with it.

接着会进入倦怠的第五阶段，即习惯性倦怠，即对几乎所有事情都失去了乐趣。

And then that leads to the fifth stage of burnout, which is habitual burnout, which is a loss of joy in basically anything.

从NFL退役了。

Retired from the NFL.

你可能会这样。

You might, yeah.

安息。

RIP.

是的，当你失去这种乐趣时，你

Yeah, when you lose that joy You

你刚刚描述的正是我经历的一切。

just described everything I went through.

是的，这可能导致不健康的习惯，比如寻求饮酒来获得多巴胺。

Yeah, it can lead to unhealthy habits, you know, seeking out drinking dopamine.

是的，用止痛药来麻痹自己，这样就不用感受正在发生的事。

Yeah, pain meds to be numb so that you don't have to feel what's happening.

这不正是我经历的一切吗？

Did that not describe everything that I went through?

所以我看到倦怠和生孩子之间有联系，亲爱的。

So I see a correlation between burnout and having kids, honey.

分娩、生产、产后。

Labor, delivery, postpartum.

当然。

Absolutely.

整个过程都是紧密相连的。

The whole shit is linked together.

你有分娩、生产。

You got labor, delivery.

关于怀孕。

About pregnancy.

首先是怀孕，十个月。

Pregnancy first, ten months.

然后是分娩、生产，之后是

Then you got labor, delivery, then you have after the

出生，当

birth, when

变成产后。

become postpartum.

但再加上睡眠不足。

But sleep deprivation on top of all of that.

所有这些事情

All the things

倦怠。

burnout.

倦怠是很严重的。

Burnout's a lot.

是的，我真的只想一个人待着，那到底是什么？

Yeah, literally just want to be like by my well, what is it?

它在你身上是如何表现的？

How does it manifest itself in you?

因为对于你来说，经历倦怠时，我知道会有一种疏离感，你会选择放手，或者采取一些应对倦怠的机制。

Because for you with burnout, I know that there's a detachment that happens that you just kind of let go or coping mechanisms to deal with burnout.

对我来说，我知道自己一旦倦怠，就只想把一切全都关闭。

For me, I know when I'm burnt out, I just want to shut everything down.

不想和任何人待在一起。

Like, don't wanna be around people.

我不想一个人待着。

I don't I wanna be by myself.

是的。

Yeah.

我什么都不想做。

I don't want to do anything.

对。

Yeah.

我想找到能让我获得快乐的方式。

I want to find the ways that I can find joy.

有时候，我连床都不想下。

Sometimes that's not leaving my bed.

有时候，就是不停地看一部好剧，陪陪孩子和丈夫。

Sometimes that's continuously, you know, watching a good show, spending time with just my kids and my husband.

这些就是对我来说重要的事。

Like, those are the things for me.

我知道我能从中找到一点恢复的感觉。

I know I can find a little bit of like recovery from.

对我来说，我必须有意识地为自己留出时间。

For me, I have to be purposeful about taking time for myself.

比如我现在开始做的，我不再一醒来就准备应对全天的事情。

Like what I've started to do now, I don't wake up my days anymore prepared to handle the day.

我不再像以前那样一醒来就查看各种账户。

I don't wake up like I used to wake up, check my accounts.

这是个很好的观点。

That's a good point.

进了多少钱，出了多少钱，让我打电话给我的顾问，让我查清楚情况。

How much money came in, how much money came in, what came out, let me call my advisor, let me find out what it is.

然后之后，我会检查我的Instagram、YouTube等等，确保所有分析数据都正常运作。

Then after that, I check my Instagram, my YouTube, my this, make sure that all my analytics is working right.

然后就像我过去一醒来就会那样做，那就是我以前的生活方式。

Then it's like the minute I woke up, I used to wake up, that's what it was.

所以你说你醒来时几乎是在主动招致倦怠。

So you said you woke up and almost inviting burnout.

不，不，是的。

No, no, yeah.

直接跳入工作事务。

Jumped straight into business.

是的，我发现这对我不太好。

Yeah, which I found to be terrible for me.

比如我体重增加了，眼睛以前总是非常暗沉。

Like I was gaining weight, my eyes used to be super dark all the time.

我的头发变得非常非常稀疏。

My hair was crazy, crazy thin.

你知道吗，就连我的体脂率都变了。

Know Like what I'm my body, even my body fat percentage.

马特说，哟，我看了你去年的视频，都没意识到你那时候胖了很多。

Matt was like, Yo, I looked at video of you last year and didn't realize that you were a lot bigger.

我能从你脸上看出来。

Like I could see it in your face.

我意识到，要应对倦怠，就不能让倦怠发生。

And I realized that I have in order to navigate burnout, you can't let burnout happen.

就像应对的第一要诀就是不要让自己筋疲力尽。

Like the first thing of navigating is don't get burnt out.

所以我早上醒来后，第一件事就是去洗手间刷牙，然后到冰箱拿我的姜汁shot，喝着温茶配上益生菌，就这样静坐一会儿。

So I wake up in the morning, very first thing I do when I wake up is I go to the bathroom, brush my teeth, go to my fridge, take my ginger shot, and drink my warm tea with my probiotic, and I just sit for a minute.

我坐着，冥想，思考我人生中想做的事情。

I sit, I meditate, I think about what it is I want to do in life.

然后我去锻炼，花一个半小时专注于自己和身体。

Then I go work out, spend my hour and a half focusing on myself and my body.

到那时，我已经让肠胃得到了休息，因为你知道，肠道健康很重要。

At that point, I've rested my gut, because you know gut health is important.

我拉伸了，冥想了，确保所有对我自己重要的事情都先处理好了。

I've stretched, I've meditated, I've made sure everything that was important to myself first was taken care of.

然后我查看了我的账户，接着看了我的Instagram，对我来说，应对倦怠就是要先确保承诺没问题。

Then I checked my account, then I checked my Instagram, then I so for me navigating burnout was to make sure the vow was okay first.

我以前从不这么做。

And I never used to do that.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对于我来说，当我和我们为了在这个职业领域取得成功而追逐所有我们认为必须追逐的东西时，我意识到倦怠正在发生，对吧？

For me with burnout, I realized that it was happening when I or we, you know, were chasing all of the things that we felt like we needed to chase in order to be successful within this career field, right?

所以了解娱乐行业、影视行业，以及现在几乎成为我们生计的社交媒体行业。

So knowing the entertainment industry, the film and television industry, now the social media industry which has become pretty much our livelihoods.

对我来说，就像是怎样才能抓住每一个赚钱机会，出现在每一个可能里，因为你永远不知道什么时候这一切就会消失？

For me, was just like how can I chase every bag, you know, exist in every opportunity because you never know at one point this will be gone?

就像我们在十年前的另一个节目里说的，社交媒体和成为内容创作者当时还不存在。

Like we were saying in another episode ten years ago, social media and becoming a content creator wasn't a thing.

所以，很长一段时间里我几乎觉得，随时这一切都可能不复存在。

So, I almost felt like for a long time, like at any point, this may not be a thing anymore.

所以，让我试着在还能把握的时候，最大限度地利用和抓住这个机会，因为抓住这个机会可能会带来下一次重大突破。

So, let me try to maximize and capitalize on the opportunity now while I can because taking this opportunity may lead to that next big break.

特别是去年，我意识到，天哪，我几乎觉得我们在某种程度上是在瞎忙活，因为我在想，如果我接下这个活儿，但它并不能从职业或专业角度推动我的成功，或者有潜力推动我的职业生涯成功，那是不是就像是为了露面而参加每个活动？

And last year specifically, I realized like, man, like, I almost felt like we were hustling backwards in a sense because I'm like, if I'm taking this gig and it's not gonna move the needle for me in a way that's successful for or could potentially be successful for my career or from a professional standpoint, then it's like, am I just going to every event just to be seen?

你知道，坐在每个小组讨论里只是为了说你参加了小组讨论，为了发帖显示你在外面做事？

You know, sitting on every panel just to say you're on a panel, to be posting that you're out doing something?

还是这件事真的能带来成就感？

Or is this something that's really going to bring fulfillment?

实际上可能会为我带来未来的机遇？

Actually potentially bring me future opportunities?

它会不会让我长时间离家，而我其实并不需要离开家？

Is it going to take me out of my home for an extended period of time that I don't need to be away from home?

这些是我必须开始思考并问自己的问题，以防止最终陷入倦怠。

Those are the things that I had to start processing and kind of asking myself to prevent eventually being burnt out.

所以你应对倦怠的第一步就是决定不再做那些不直接对我有益的事情。

So your first thing to navigate burnout was to be like, I'm no longer doing the things that just don't serve me directly.

不，不是为了做而做。

Like, no, not just doing stuff to do it.

消除无意义的忙碌。

Eliminating busy work.

消除

Eliminating

因为这才是最重要的。

busy Because that's the biggest thing.

很多人都在做无谓的忙碌工作。

Lot people do busy work.

就像，我静坐不动，什么都没做，也没有变得更好。

Like, I'm sitting still, and I'm not doing anything, I'm not getting better.

我当时就是这种感觉。

That was how I was feeling about it.

这是第一件事。

That was the first thing.

同时把时间重新投入到我自己和健康上。

Also reinvesting time into myself and my health.

所以我们俩都加入了这股潮流，觉得，你知道吗？

So we both kind of got onto that bandwagon where we're like, you know what?

如果我们俩不健康，什么都行不通。

Nothing is gonna work if he and I aren't healthy.

所以我们一直非常支持彼此的旅程，确保从健康角度出发，我们都在投资自己。

So we've been super supportive in both of our journeys to really make sure that from a health standpoint, we're investing in ourselves.

我们吃得更好了。

We're eating better.

我们开始像团队一样保证睡眠了。

We're getting the sleep like team no sleep.

那种不睡觉的日子再也不会发生了。

That's no longer a thing me.

是的，那已经不是了

Yeah, that's not

我必须保证充足的睡眠。

Like I'm gonna need my sleep.

我需要每天七到八小时的睡眠。

I'm gonna need my seven to eight hours of sleep.

即使在我拍戏的时候，我也得优先考虑，我到底是去锻炼呢？

Even when I was filming and stuff like that, I'm like, I had to prioritize and like, am I gonna work out?

我到底是去学习呢？

Am I gonna study?

我该在这么短的恢复时间内做些什么，为第二天做准备呢？

Am I gonna what am I gonna do in this, you know, short amount of time that I have to recover for the next day?

我当时就想，你知道吗？

And I was like, you know what?

我要去睡觉了。

I'm going to sleep.

但我认为，‘团队不睡觉’正是这一代人倦怠如此普遍的原因之一。

But I do think team no sleep is part of the reason why burnout is so big in this generation.

你知道的，

You know

说什么？

what saying?

它变成了

Like it became

一种荣誉的象征。

a badge of honor.

对我来说曾经是这样的，我以前总说，天啊，我工作了十八个小时。

And it used to be for me when I used to be like, man, I work eighteen hours.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我都没睡觉。

And I didn't sleep.

直到后来我才意识到睡眠对我的恢复有多么重要。

It wasn't until I realized how much sleep was important for my recovery.

不仅仅是身体上，当你睡眠不足时，你的认知失调会变得一团糟，导致你无法正常运作

Not just physically, Like but when you when you don't sleep, and you can't function because your cognitive dissonance is like, like all over

完全混乱。

the place.

而我

And I

甚至无法将自己从想做的事情中抽离，因为我根本意识不到正在发生什么。

can't even separate myself from stuff I want to because I can't even realize what's happening.

这就是现实。

That's a reality.

当你不睡觉时，你会开始做些琐碎的工作，因为你根本无法判断什么是重要的，因为你的思绪完全混乱。

What happens is when you don't sleep, you start to do busy work because you really can't decide what's important because your mind is all over the place.

你什么事都做。

You do everything.

不知不觉中，你什么都在做，却又什么都没做成。

Before you know it, you're doing everything but also doing nothing.

没错。

Right.

而且你在任何事情上都没能全力以赴。

And you're not showing up 100% anywhere.

一切都变得支离破碎。

Everything is just kind of scattered.

所以当我意识到自己正在走向倦怠时，这是我必须面对的一些最重要的事情。

So for me, was some of the biggest things that I had to navigate when I realized like burnout was definitely coming on.

我也意识到，倦怠可以以很多不同的方式出现。

I realized too that you can be burnt out in so many different ways.

比如有身体上的倦怠、情绪上的倦怠、精神上的倦怠，还有心理上的倦怠。

Like there's physical burnout, there's emotional burnout, there's a spiritual burnout, there's, you know, mental burnout.

我经常说，作为一个妈妈、妻子和女商人，我脑子里开着太多窗口，我不得不意识到，有时候寻求帮助、分派任务这些做法能帮我度过那些感觉‘好吧’的时刻。

And I say all the time, feel like even just as a mom and a wife and a businesswoman, like there's so many tabs open in my brain that I had to realize sometimes asking for help and delegating responsibilities things like that helped me navigate when I felt like, you know what?

我真的再也做不下去了。

I just can't do this anymore.

当你意识到时，这真的很令人难过——你热爱的事情，你却连做它们的力气都没有了。

And it's sad when it hits you when you realize like damn like the love for the things that I want to do, I can't even do them because I don't have the energy to do it.

比如，当我意识到它影响了我和孩子相处的时间时，我宁愿躺在床上独处，也不愿意陪孩子们放松。

You know, when I realized it was affecting the time with the kids, for example, it's like, rather just lay in bed and have some me time versus like wanting to chill with the kids.

这对我来说是个问题。

Like that was a problem for me.

倦怠影响了你的家庭生活和你在家里想做的事情。

The burnout was affecting your family and what you want to do at home.

我有个问题想问特雷布尔。

I got a question for Treble.

特雷布尔，我知道关于倦怠有一些数据和统计信息。

Treble, I know there are some facts and stats about burnout.

对吧？

Right?

让我听听这些数据。

Let me hear some of those.

是的。

Yeah.

但它不是一种医学病症。

So it's not a medical condition.

但世界卫生组织确实承认，倦怠可能导致人们感到身心俱疲、精疲力尽，或者也可能产生愤世嫉俗的情绪。

But the World Health Organization does recognize that it can cause people to feel physically and emotionally drained or be exhausted or they may also feel cynical.

但它不是一种医学病症？

But it's not a medical condition?

它不被视为一种医学状况。

It's not considered a medical condition.

不，但它会产生心理和情绪上的症状。

No, but it can produce medical mental emotional symptoms.

比如抑郁。

Like depression.

是的，比如抑郁、焦虑，它会让人难以享受日常生活。

Yeah, like depression, anxiety and it can make it difficult to enjoy daily life.

有些人还会出现身体症状，比如患有躯体症状障碍，这是一种焦虑症，会将压力与身体疾病联系起来。

Some people also can have physical symptoms like if you have something called somatic symptom syndrome, it's a type of anxiety where you can place stress with physical illness.

它可能模仿身体疾病。

It can mimic Are physical

我们难道不厌倦这些诊断了吗？

we not tired of all of these diagnoses?

有大约一万五千种抑郁和焦虑的变体。

There's like 15,000 versions of depression and anxiety.

而且我得说实话，兄弟。

And I'm gonna be honest, bro.

我觉得有时候我们对事情太过临床化了。

I feel like sometimes we're getting too like clinical with things.

因为我们现在有孩子，才11岁。

Because we have kids now who are like 11.

他们就跟我说：爸爸，我对此感到焦虑。

And they're like dad, have anxiety about this.

我不觉得我该做这件事。

I don't think I should do this.

这时候你就得等等，等等。

And it's like well hold up, hold up.

你才11岁。

You 11.

你根本不可能对我有什么焦虑。

You don't really have no anxiety about me.

你不懂

You don't know

这代表什么。

what that means.

你害怕了。

You're scared.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

是的。

Yes.

我感到很矛盾

I'm of torn

因为我觉得我好像

with that because I feel like I felt I'm

很矛盾，我确实很矛盾，你知道为什么

torn I'm with torn you know why

我左右为难？

I'm torn?

我左右为难，因为我觉得我们成长过程中，对吧？

I'm torn because I think as we grew up, right?

我们被教导要硬撑过去，要忍耐，这很正常，这就是成功的途径。

And we were told to just push through things and to deal with it and this is par for the course and this is how you become successful.

我们只是低着头，忽视了自己对很多事情的感受，而这恰恰解释了为什么像我们这一代的千禧一代，现在会有这么多问题、焦虑和心理负担；而如今，我们开始提醒人们：也许你某天需要一个心理健康日，需要一天彻底放松，或者你应该关注自己的心理状态。

It's like we just kind of put our head down and then ignored the way we felt about a lot of things which is in turn why I think adults our age, Millennials specifically, have the issues and the anxiety and the things that they have now versus now that we've put people on notice like, maybe there are days that you need a mental health day or you need a day to kind of just relax or maybe you should be cognizant of how you feel mentally.

你明白我的意思吗？

Know what I'm saying?

这其实有两面性。

There's like two sides

必须

got to

听进去。

to hear it.

我得听听这个。

I got to hear it.

我明白你的意思。

I hear what you're saying.

但这个词用得太频繁了。

But it's just used too often.

因为是的，

Because yeah,

我们正在承认

we're acknowledging

孩子每周需要三天心理健康日。

Three days a kid need a mental health day.

对。

Right.

孩子有三天不想去上学。

Three days a kid don't want to go to school.

八天的话，就有两面性。

Eight days it's two sides.

我不喜欢这部分，但我不会忽视焦虑是真实存在的这一事实。

I don't like that part, but I would not ignore the fact that anxiety is a real thing.

不，我不是在谈焦虑。

No, I'm not talking about the anxiety.

我在谈倦怠被当作一种焦虑。

Talking about burnout being considered a type of anxiety.

现在似乎一切都被称为焦虑。

It seems like everything now is considered anxiety.

如果一个孩子害怕参加400米跑，他就被说有焦虑。

If a kid is afraid to run the 400 in track, he has anxiety.

我们好像把一切都临床诊断为焦虑。

It's like, we clinically diagnose everything.

有时候，其实就是：别那么较真，努力试试吧。

When sometimes it's like, yo, get the fucking stick out of your ass and try.

你知道吗

You know what

我说的是

I'm saying?

必须

Has to

在两者之间取得平衡。

be a balance between the two.

这就是

That's the

我的意思是，杰斯珀，我打断你一下。

way get I mean to cut you off, Jasper.

你请说。

Go ahead.

不，不，不。

No, no, no.

我同意。

I I agree.

我觉得有一种恐惧，还有一种焦虑。

I I think there's a there's a fear, and then there's anxiety.

其中很多情况是恐惧，孩子们害怕去做某些事情。

And and one of most of those things can be fear where kids are scared to do things.

还有一些是真实的焦虑。

And then there are some things that are legit anxieties.

我知道，比如维多利亚，她早年就有焦虑，而我们当时并不理解。

I know For example, Victoria, early in her life, had anxiety that we did not understand.

我尤其不理解，因为我自己对某些事情基本没有焦虑，即使有，我也只把它归结为紧张或经验不足，或者只是我没意识到事情的严重性。但我必须明白，她的焦虑是真实的，要学会如何应对、 coping，并教导和引导她度过这些时刻。

I especially didn't understand because I don't really have anxiety about certain things, and if I do have anxiety, I just, I chalk that up to just nerves or inexperience, or just me just not necessarily understanding the But gravity of it I had to understand that her, that she had anxiety, the anxiety was real, and learn how to deal and cope and teach her and coach her through those things.

所以我只想说，关于焦虑，是的，我同意我们社会中的一切都被称为焦虑，但也有一个界限，我必须成长起来，意识到：也许我该认真对待这件事。

So my only point is to the anxiety that, yes, I do agree that everything in our society, we can say, Oh, it's anxiety, but then there's a certain place that I have to grow up and be like, Maybe I should look into this.

在面对像这样的情况时，我应该忽略那种‘严厉的爱’的态度。

And I should probably ignore the fact that I should ignore the tough love sentiment when it comes to certain things like that.

关于统计数据这个话题，我想说的是，全国精神健康联盟进行了一项民意调查，询问人们关于职业倦怠或工作与心理健康的问题。

And I will say this on on the topic of stats, the National Alliance on Mental Health did a poll, a survey asking people about burnout or their work and their mental health.

他们分享的数据显示，在调查中报告对谈论自己心理健康感到不适的员工中，有62%的人也报告了感到工作倦怠。

And they shared that sixty two percent of employees who reported on the survey feeling uncomfortable about sharing about their mental health also reported feeling burned out by their jobs.

有

There's

是谁问的？

Who's a a ask?

他们针对美国职场中的2000人做了一项调查。

They did a survey on 2,000 people in the workforce in The United States.

我能理解这一点，因为美国以在各方面过度压榨员工而闻名。

I can understand that because The United States is known for overworking people every aspect But of every

我的观点是，如果你不愿意谈论自己的心理健康，可能是因为你觉得焦虑不是真实存在的问题，或者觉得焦虑感太普遍，或者认为自己只是有其他情绪。

my point is that if you're unable to share about your mental health because you might feel that anxiety is not a real thing or there's too much anxiety or I'm just feeling something else.

我不想谈论我的心理健康，因为你不会相信我，或者觉得这不真实，或者诸如此类的原因。

I don't want to talk about my mental health because you're not going to believe me or it's not real or whatever.

你也在挣扎。

You're also struggling.

你可能也面临挑战，因为你感到精疲力尽，却还在硬撑。

You might also be challenged because you feel burnt out and you're forcing your way through it.

所以这正是我想说的，和乔什刚才提到的类似。

So this is my thing, similar to what Josh just spoke about.

当我进入NFL时，你知道，他们会安排你和运动心理学家交谈，或者找专门提升运动表现的人聊聊。

When I got to the NFL, you know, they have you speak with sometimes sports psychologists or, you know, you go speak to your sport you play a performance person.

我去和他谈了，他们直接说：‘杜瓦尔，听起来你从小就有表现焦虑。’

And I went to speak to him and they were just like, Man, it sounds like, Duval, that you grew up with performance anxiety.

还记得我之前说的吗？

Remember what I was telling

你，是的。

you Yeah.

我当时就问：‘什么是表现焦虑？’

And I was like, What's performance anxiety?

他们只是说：不，就是害怕在众人面前表现。

And they were just like, No, it's the fear to perform in front of people.

然后我开始思考，心想：哦，原来这有个临床术语。

And then I was thinking about it, I was like, Oh, there's a clinical name for that.

我之前不知道这个。

Didn't know that.

所以我从小就有表现焦虑。

So I'm people I grew up with performance anxiety.

但你知道我是怎么克服的吗？

But you know how I got through it?

通过表演。

Performing.

通过表演。

Performing.

通过表演。

Performing.

是的，当然。

Yeah, of course.

那么现实地说，这真的是一种焦虑吗？

And then realistically, is it really an anxiety?

这叫恐惧，兄弟。

That's fear, bro.

或者这是一种，这正是我想说的。

Or is it a and that's my point.

这家伙告诉我，我从小就有表演焦虑，几乎从临床角度告诉我这就是它的本质，我当时就只是说，好吧。

This dude told me that I grew up with performance anxiety, and pretty much clinically told me this is what it was, and this is and I was just like, okay.

但当我回顾我的人生时，我发现我总是对那些从未做过的事情感到担忧。

But then when I thought about my life, I was like, I always was concerned about things that I had never done before.

而我消除恐惧的唯一方法就是练习。

And the only way I got rid of the fear was by practicing

我本来正要这么说呢。

being I was about to normal say that.

所以这甚至不是真正的表演焦虑，而是当你有足够的信心去表演时，这种焦虑就会消失，因为你是

So it's not even really performance anxiety, it's once you feel confident enough to perform, that anxiety goes away because you're But

他告诉我，我有表演焦虑。

he told me I had performance anxiety.

但是

But

你知道，我想你确实可以通过表演来克服表演焦虑。

you know, I guess you can make your way through performance anxiety.

你可以通过表演来治愈自己的表演焦虑。

Like, you can heal yourself of performance anxiety by performing.

通过准备

By preparing

和表演。

and performing.

焦虑并不总是令人瘫痪的，也不一定会主宰你的生活。

Anxiety isn't always something that is debilitating or it takes over your life.

当它严重影响你的生活时，你就可能需要药物治疗，或者某种形式的心理咨询、EMDR之类的疗法。

When it does take over your life, that's when you might need to have medication or some form of like talk therapy or EMDR or something like that.

但如果你对某件事只是有普遍的焦虑，即使那是EMDR，

But if you have a general anxiety about something, even if was EMDR,

如果你不介意的话，

if you don't mind me

我问一下。

asking.

这是一种

It's a type

治疗方法。

of therapy.

因为你知道，如果你突然面对人群，现在你

Because you know, if you shock at people, Now you

不需要

don't have

焦虑就没了。

anxiety no more.

你没事吧，兄弟。

You good, bro.

这是一种不同的倦怠。

It's a different kind of burnt out.

不，是我的错。

No, but my bad.

这是一种叫做眼动脱敏与再处理疗法的治疗方法。

It is a type of therapy that it's called eye movement desensitization and reprocessing.

这是一种心理疗法技术，有助于减轻与令人困扰的记忆相关的压力。

It's psychotherapy is a technique that helps reduce the stress associated with disturbing memories.

它们经常用于治疗创伤后应激障碍和焦虑。

They use it a lot for PTSD and anxiety.

创伤。

Trauma.

我明白这种

I get that with

创伤、创伤后应激障碍的创伤是真实的。

trauma PTSD trauma though that's legitimate.

这是真实的。

That's legitimate.

当然。

Sure.

当你经历过一些无法摆脱的创伤，并因此产生焦虑时，这和我害怕去玩这个游戏是完全不同的。

When you've dealt with certain traumas that you can't get rid of and you have anxiety that to me is very different than I'm afraid to go play this game.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

但确实，每个人都有一定程度的焦虑。

But yeah, so everybody has a level of anxiety.

如果焦虑严重到影响你的日常生活，那就可能是一种医学问题。

It can be a medical issue if it gets to the point where it disrupts your everyday life.

如果焦虑影响到你的日常生活，你可能会去接受心理治疗，治疗师可能会使用一种叫做暴露疗法的方法，逐步让你面对你害怕的事情。

And if it disrupts your everyday life, you might go to therapy and a therapist might do something called exposure therapy where they kind of force you to do the thing that you're scared to do.

而这正是我们正在做的。

Which is just what we do.

这正是你刚才说的完全一致。

Which is what you just said exactly.

但如果你的焦虑程度已经严重到影响日常生活，你就无法靠自己达到那个状态。

But if you have a level of anxiety where it's disrupting your everyday life, you can't get to that place by yourself.

所以对你来说幸运的是，你能克服表演焦虑，因为你能够强迫自己去做那些你害怕的事情，因为你并没有那种让你无法行动的焦虑水平。

So luckily for you, you're able to get past your performance anxiety because you can force yourself to do the thing that you're scared to do because you don't have a level of anxiety that's keeping you from doing that thing.

明白。

Copy.

由于倦怠不是一个临床诊断，人们可以应对倦怠，而倦怠本质上是一种疲劳，当疲劳到一定程度时，就会出现这些焦虑症状。

So since burnout isn't a clinical diagnosis, people can work through burnout, which is ultimately fatigue to a point where you're so fatigued that you start to have these symptoms of anxiety.

差不多这就是倦怠的全部含义。

Pretty much that's what burnout is.

睡不着，身体很累，头疼，你懂我的意思吧？

Can't sleep, physically tired, headaches, you know what I'm saying?

精疲力尽。

Exhaustion.

所以这就是倦怠。

So that's what burnout is.

我之所以想把这两者区分开，是因为当听众在听或者在家观看的人，能明白焦虑和倦怠之间的区别，而不是混为一谈。

And the reason why I want to separate the two is so that when listeners are listening or whoever's watching at home, you understand the difference between anxiety and burnout and don't just mix.

因为我觉得这就是实际情况。

Because I think that's what happens.

一切都变得乱七八糟。

Everything becomes a kerfuffle.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I'm saying?

现在所有事情都被归到一个类别里了。

Everything now gets put under one thing.

如果我们真的要进行这场对话，我真的很希望人们能理解其中的区别。

And if we're really going to have this conversation, I really want people to understand the difference.

比如，倦怠并不是一种临床诊断，你生来就带着倦怠，然后一直不断地感到倦怠。

Like, burnout is not a clinical diagnosis where you was born with burnout and you tend to continuously always get burned out.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

倦怠是一种你可以

Burnout is something you can

而且是自我造成的。

And it's self inflicted.

它大多数时候是

It's most of

的。

the time.

而这正是我想让人们理解的区别。

And that's what I want people to understand the difference.

焦虑就像你们刚才讨论的那样。

Anxiety is something like y'all just discussed.

你无法完全控制它。

You can't control over it.

但有办法应对你的焦虑。

But there's ways to work through your anxiety.

对。

Right.

而倦怠，你是100%可以控制的。

Burnout, you have 100% control over it.

这就是为什么它不是一种临床诊断。

That's why it's not a clinical diagnosis.

对。

Right.

所以我们能预防倦怠。

So we can prevent burnout.

是的。

Right.

但你可能会表现出一些类似症状的东西。

But you may exhibit things like symptoms of right.

这就像是在WebMD上搜索症状，结果发现天啊，我马上就要死了，因为我同时有所有症状，但其实很容易把这些症状搞混。

So it's almost like googling something on WebMD and it's like, my god, I'm about to die because I have all the symptoms at the same time, you know, but it's easy to kind of get them crossed.

不，我喜欢把这两者区分开，因为人们也需要知道，当你有焦虑症——这是一种临床诊断，需要寻求专业帮助，而不是仅仅以为自己是倦怠。

No, I like I like the the separation of the two so people understand because people also need to know when you have anxiety, which is a clinical diagnosis and need to seek someone as opposed to just thinking I have burnout.

是的。

Right.

而且让人们了解如何判断自己是否患有焦虑症很重要。

And it's important for people to know how do you have anxiety?

还是你只是倦怠了？

Or are you burnt out?

是的。

Right.

理解这两者之间的区别可以帮助人们获得他们所需的帮助。

And understanding the difference between the two can help people go get the help they need.

你是在什么时候——我觉得这一点很有意思。

At what point do you because I thought this is pretty interesting.

你是否会因为职业倦怠而对你的职业或职业目标失去兴趣？

Do you tend to lose some interest in your career or like your professional goals because of burnout?

我感觉从未在你身上看到过这种情况，比如你会说‘好吧，我感觉筋疲力尽了，但你知道，我不想再继续做这个表演工作了’。

I feel like I've never seen that with you where you're like, okay, I'm feeling burnt out but you know, I don't think I want to do this acting thing anymore.

你知道，那是

You know, that's

不像是一直存在怀疑的那种情况。

not Like where it's ever been like a doubt.

你觉得这只是常态，还是因为对我来说，我能看到有时怀疑会悄悄渗入，比如我是否具备所需的能力？

Do you feel like it's just par for the course or do you feel like because for me, I can see how sometimes the doubt can now kind of trickle in like, do I have what it takes?

我明白了。

I see.

如果我无法应对这种情况，并且为了达到这个目标、这份工作或下一个层次而感到筋疲力尽，那么我能理解这会如何开始迫使某人质疑这甚至是否是他们合适的领域。

If I can't deal with this and I'm burnt out trying to get to this goal or this job or this next level, The I can see how it starts to force someone to question whether this is even the right field for them.

我是这样处理这个问题的，除非你有什么别的办法

This is how I handle that unless you got something that

我正想说，那种低调的倦怠感其实帮了我。

I was gonna say that low key burnout helped me.

我当时做婚礼摄影感到筋疲力尽，不得不离开那个领域。

I was burnt out doing weddings, and I had to get out of there.

这帮助我在职业生涯中走得更远。

And it helped me get further in my career.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

因为我厌倦了重复做那些一成不变的婚礼拍摄。

Because I got tired of doing the same old same, the same old weddings.

我就是厌倦了。

I just got tired of it.

不过这让我想起了什么吗？

Know what it reminds me of though?

你从来就不想只做婚礼摄影。

You never wanted to just do weddings.

没错。

Correct.

就像我从来就不想只当一名NFL运动员。

Same way I never wanted to just be an NFL athlete.

没错。

Correct.

对。

True.

所以当你对一件你根本不想做的事感到精疲力尽时，这就意味着

So when you get burnt out doing something you really don't want to do, it's

是时候了。

Like it's time.

是的。

Yeah.

就像是，嘿，我的身体在提醒我，因为演戏的时候，我会起床感到疲惫，但不是

It's like, yo, my body is telling me because with acting, I'll get up tired, not

疲惫，去做

tired, do

它是因为我热爱它。

it because I love it.

你热爱它。

You love it.

是的。

Yeah.

知道我在说什么吗？

Know what saying?

漫长的日子并不像在工作。

Long days don't feel like work.

你只是很开心

You're just happy

但我想

to But I be think

你曾经在片场累垮过一次。

you burnt out on set one time.

是的。

Yeah.

但我认为你当时也在应对片场周围的各种事情。

But I think you were also navigating the things around set.

是家庭琐事。

It was household stuff.

是一堆事情。

It was a bunch of things.

流感。

The flu.

是的。

Yeah.

每个人都病了。

Everybody was sick.

你身体真的生病了。

You were physically sick.

我身体真的生病了。

I was physically sick.

是的。

Yeah.

但我认为这也是一个重要的话题，因为你爱一件事，并不意味着你每天必须为它工作十八个小时。

But I think that's also important conversation to talk about just because you love something don't mean that you're supposed to do it every day for eighteen hours.

你仍然需要照顾好自己的身体、心灵和精神。

You still got to take care of your body, your mind, and your spirit.

这其实很好

That's actually a good

得找到一个平衡

gotta find a balance

在里面。

in it.

因为我真的很喜欢表演。

Because I do love acting.

我就是这样一种会对事情着迷的人。

And I am the type of person that gets obsessive over things.

所以我每天早上都会早起，做阅读，然后去锻炼，再去做别的事情。

So I'll get up early in the morning, I'll do my readings, then I'll go work out, then I'll go do something else.

你的身体就是你的乐器。

Your body's your instrument.

当然。

Absolutely.

如果你希望它在需要的时候能为你发挥作用，那你也要好好照顾它。

And if you want it to show up for you when it needs to show up, then you gotta take care of it too.

当她这么说的时候，我迎来了我的关键时刻。

I got my moment of truth when she just said that.

谢谢你，Matt，因为那确实是个很好的观点。

Appreciate you, Matt, because that was a good point though.

提出这一点

Bringing that

提出来，这确实是个好观点。

up, that is a good point.

我喜欢这一点。

I like that.

问题是，这是倦怠，还是这只是过程的一部分？

It's like, is it burnout or is this just part of the process?

该走了。

Time to go.

该走了。

Time to go.

那是压力过大吗？

That's a Is good it burnout?

还是我只是对这个感到厌倦了？

Or I'm just over this?

没错。

Right.

还是说这只是过程的一部分，你必须找到办法应对？

Or is it just part of the process and you're gonna have to find a way to navigate that?

这让我们回到上次讨论的内容，那就是不是应对倦怠，而是知道什么时候该做什么？

Which goes to what we talked about last time, which was not navigating burnout, but knowing when to what?

离开。

Walk away.

离开，放手。

Walk away, let go.

放手，对。

Let go, yeah.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

当你意识到自己对某件事感到精疲力尽时，可能就像马特说的，是时候放下了。

It's like when you realize you're getting burnt out of something, it might be time, like Matt say, to let this go.

也许这就是应对倦怠的一个好方法。

And maybe that's a good part, a good way to navigate burnout.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你发现自己对某件事开始感到倦怠

If you notice you getting burnt out of something

通过重新审视某件事。

By reconsidering something.

对。

Yeah.

这是个很好的观点。

That's a good point.