埃隆·马斯克最新接受尼哈尔·卡马特的采访

大家好，这是埃隆·马斯克接受尼哈尔·卡马特最新采访的片段。

Hi guys, here's the clips of Elon Musk, latest interview by Nikhil Kamath.

我最近说过一些话，可能被夸大了，我当时的意思是，如果要决定学什么，MBA学位可能已经不再那么有意义了。

I said something recently which, I think got blown out of proportion where I was suggesting that a MBA degree might not make sense anymore if they were to be deciding on what to study.

是的。

Yeah.

你觉得呢

Do you

现在的孩子还应该上大学吗？

think kids should go to college anymore?

我的意思是，如果你上大学是为了社交原因，我觉得这确实是一个值得去的理由，因为可以和同龄人在一起，在一个学习环境中互动。

Well, I mean, I I think if you wanna go to college for social reasons, I think, which is a I think a reason to go, to be around people your own age in a in a learning environment.

这些技能在未来还会是必需的吗？

Will will these skills be necessary in the future?

可能不会了，因为我们即将进入一个后工作社会。

Probably not because we're gonna be in, a post work society.

但我认为，如果对某件事感兴趣，去学习它是没问题的，比如学习科学或文理学科。

But I think if if if something's of of interest, it's fine to go and study that, You know, to study the sciences or the arts and sciences.

从这个角度看，大学教育是不是太泛泛而谈了？

Is college a bit too generalized and not specific from that lens?

不是。

No.

我的意思是，嗯。

I I I you know, the yeah.

如果真要上大学，我觉得选修广泛多样的课程是好事。

I actually think it's it's good to take a wide range of courses at college if you're gonna go to college.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我不认为非得上大学不可，但如果你去上，就应该尽可能广泛地学习各种学科。

I don't think I don't think you have to go to college, but I think if you do, you just try to learn learn as much as possible across a wide range of subjects.

但正如我所说，人工智能和机器人技术就像一场超音速海啸。

But, like I said, the AI and robots AI and robotics is a supersonic tsunami.

所以这将是我们有史以来最根本的变革。

So this is really gonna be the most radical change that we've ever seen.

当我跟我的两个年长的儿子交谈时，我知道他们对技术非常熟悉。

You know, when I've talked to my my older sons, I you know, I said, like, you know, you guys they're they're they're pretty steeped in technology.

他们也认同人工智能可能会让他们的技能在未来变得不再必要，但他们仍然想上大学。

Then they they agree that that AI will probably make their skills unnecessary in the future, but they still wanna go to college.

你一直谈论人工智能时，都不是从反乌托邦的角度，而是担心人工智能世界的发展方向。

You always spoke about AI not from the dystopian lens, but you were worried about where the world of AI is going.

当你创造一种强大的技术时，它可能会具有破坏性，这确实存在一些危险。

Well, there's there's some danger when you create a powerful technology that that a powerful technology can be potentially destructive.

因此，显然有很多关于人工智能的反乌托邦小说、书籍和电影。

So there's obviously many AI dystopian, you know, novels and books, movies.

所以我们并不能保证未来一定会拥有人工智能。

So it's it's not that we're guaranteed to have a a future with with AI.

我认为，据我看来，确保人工智能将追求真理作为最重要的目标是非常关键的。

I think we we've got to make sure that, in my opinion, it's very important that AI have pursuing truth as the most important thing.

别强迫AI相信虚假的东西。

Like, don't force an AI to believe falsehoods.

我觉得这可能会非常危险。

I think that's that can be very dangerous.

我认为对美的欣赏也很重要。

And I think some appreciation of beauty is important.

你所说的对美的欣赏是什么意思？

What do you mean appreciation of beauty?

就像我也不太清楚。

It's like what what I don't know.

美中蕴含着真理。

There's this there's this truth in beauty.

美中的真理，以及好奇心。

Truth in beauty and curiosity.

我的意思是，我认为这三者是AI最重要的东西。

I I mean, I think those are the three most important things for AI.

你能解释一下吗？

Can you explain?

嗯，正如所说，真理是这样的，我认为如果你强迫AI相信不真实的事情，它可能会发疯，因为这会导致错误的结论。

Well, the truth as said, truth is like I I think you you can make an AI go insane if you force it to believe things that aren't true, because it will lead to conclusions that are, that that are also bad.

所以，我喜欢博尔特拉的说法——我稍微转述了一下——那些相信荒谬事物的人可能会犯下暴行，因为如果你相信一些完全荒谬的东西，就可能做出一些对你自己来说不算暴行的事情，而AI也可能以非常糟糕的方式出现这种情况。

So and I I like Bolterra's statement that, and I'm somewhat paraphrasing, but those who believe in absurdities can commit atrocities because if you believe in something that's just absurd, then you can that can lead you to sort of doing things that don't seem like atrocities to you, but and and that can happen at in a very bad way with AI potentially.

然后，比如说，如果你考虑亚瑟·C·克拉克的话……

So and then there's like, if you take, say, Arthur C.

克拉克的《2001太空漫游》中，他想表达的一个观点是：你不应该强迫AI说谎。

Clarke's 2,001 Space Odyssey, one of the points he was trying to make there was that you should not force AIs to lie.

所以，HAL不打开舱门的原因是，它被指令将宇航员带到单体石，但同时又被禁止告知他们单体石的真实性质。

So the the reason that that hell would not open the pod bay doors is because it was told to bring the astronauts to the monolith, but that they could also know not know about the nature of the monolith.

于是它得出结论：必须把他们带到那里，哪怕让他们死掉。

So it came to the conclusion that must bring them there dead.

这就是为什么它会试图杀死宇航员。

That's why it would not that's why it it tried to kill the astronauts.

核心教训是：不要强迫AI说谎。

The the central lesson being don't force an AI to lie.

然后，而且

Then And

为什么有人会强迫AI说谎呢？

why would one force AI to lie?

我认为，如果你对真相缺乏严格的坚持，只是让AI基于互联网这种充满大量宣传信息的数据进行学习，它就会吸收大量谎言，从而难以进行推理，因为这些谎言与现实是矛盾的。

I think if if you if you simply don't have a strict a strict adherence to the truth, you you're going to and and you just have an AI learned based on say the Internet where there's a lot of propaganda, it will absorb a lot of lies and and then have trouble reasoning because these lies are incompatible with reality.

但真理真的是非黑即白的吗？

Is truth a binary thing though?

是否存在

Is there

谎言中也有真相吗？

a truth in the falsehood?

还是说，真理比‘多种版本的真相’更加复杂？

Or is truth more nuanced than there are versions of the truth?

这取决于你指的是哪个公理陈述。

It depends on which which axiomatic statement you're referring to.

但我觉得你可以说，是的，某些公理陈述为真的概率是存在的。

So but I think you could say, like, yeah, that there's there's certain probabilities that that say any given axiomatic statement is true.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有些公理陈述具有非常高的真实性概率。

And some axiomatic statements will have very high probability of being being true.

所以你说，比如太阳明天会升起。

So you said, say, the sun will rise tomorrow.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这非常可能是真的。

Very likely to be true.

你不会想跟这个打赌的。

You wouldn't wanna bet against that.

所以我认为赔率会很高。

So I think the betting odds would be high.

太阳明天会升起。

The sun will rise tomorrow.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以如果你说太阳明天不会升起，那在公理上就是错误的。

So if you have something that says, well, the sun won't rise tomorrow, that's axiomatically false.

它几乎不可能为真。

It was highly unlikely to be true.

我的意思是，美更是一种转瞬即逝的东西。

I mean, the beauty is is more ephemeral.

它更难描述，但你一看就知道。

It's it's it's harder to describe, but you know it when you see it.

然后是好奇心，我觉得你希望AI也渴望了解现实的本质。

And then curiosity just you you I think you want the AI to want to know more about the nature of of reality.

我认为这对人工智能支持人类实际上会有帮助，因为人类本身比非人类更有趣。

I think that's actually gonna be helpful for AI supporting humanity because we are more interesting than not humanity.

因此，看到人类的延续，哪怕不是繁荣，也比灭绝人类更有趣。

So it's it's more interesting to see to see the continuation, if not the prosperity of humanity, than to exterminate humanity.

比如火星，我认为我们应该把生命扩展到火星，但它本质上只是一堆岩石。

Mars, for example, is, you know, I I think we should extend life to Mars, but it's it's basically a bunch of rocks.

它没有地球那么有趣。

It's not as interesting as Earth.

所以，是的。

And and and so we yeah.

我们应该，比如，是的。

We should, like, I yeah.

我认为，如果你有好奇心，如果人工智能具备这三点，你就会拥有一个美好的未来。

I I think I think if if you have curiosity I think if those three things happen with AI, you're gonna have a great future.

人工智能崇尚真理、美和好奇心。

The AI values truth, beauty, and curiosity.

如果未来我们都不必工作，而人工智能正朝着这个方向发展，并能融合我们刚才讨论的所有内容，你认为人类会不会倒退几千年，回到古希腊时代，那时哲学思辨占据了每个人大量的时间？

If we all don't have to work in the future and AIs are going in this direction and they're able to weave in all that we spoke about right now, do you think humanity goes back a couple of thousand years to maybe the Greek times where philosophy or philosophizing took up a lot of everyone's time?

你知道，我认为实际上在古希腊时期，哲学思辨所占的时间比我们想象的要少，因为只有哲学家的著作得以留存下来。

You know, I I think actually it took up less time than we we think in the ancient Greeks because it's just that the the writings of of the philosophers are what survived.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但大多数时候，人们只是在务农，或者聊天。

But most of time, people were just like farming or, you know, chatting.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，偶尔——而且非常罕见——他们会写下一些哲学作品。

So and once in a while, quite rare, they would write down some philosophical work.

嗯。

Mhmm.

只是我们如今拥有的，就只有这些罢了。

It's just that that's that's all we have.

我们没有那些聊天记录，但大部分内容其实都是闲聊和务农。

That's we don't we don't have the chat histories, you know, from but most of it would have been like chat and farming.

对。

Right.

所以你没去务农。

So you didn't farm.

你意思是你要停下了？

You're you're, like, gonna stop.

在你所说的很多内容中

In a lot of what you

我的意思是，当我们读历史时，总是看到这场战役、那场战役，好像历史就是没完没了的战争。

I mean, you know, when we read history, like, this this battle and this battle and this battle, it seems like history must have been nonstop war.

但实际上，大部分时间并不是在打仗。

But, actually, most of the time, it was not war.

而是在务农。

It was farming.

那就是主要的事情。

That was the main thing.

嗯，狩猎和采集，你知道的，那种事情。

Well, hunting and gathering, you know, that kind of thing.

你喜欢历史。

You love history.

不是吗？

No?

是的。

Yeah.

德国历史，第二次世界大战，第一次世界大战。

German history, World War two, World War one.

对。

Yeah.

世界历史。

World history.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我通常会尽量多听、多读历史类书籍和播客。

I mean, I I I generally try to listen to as many read as many history books and listen to as many history podcasts as possible.

有什么推荐的吗？

Anything you'd like to recommend?

嗯，有一档非常硬核的历史节目，很不错。

Well, there's this this hardcore history, which is quite good.

这是丹·卡林做的。

It was by Dan Carlin.

他有一个

He's got a

我读过。

I've read it.

我的意思是，我听过。

I mean, I've heard it.

他的声音非常好，真的很棒，是的。

It's very very he's got a great voice Yeah.

而且是一个非常引人入胜的讲述者。

And and very compelling narrator.

还有一个《冒险家》播客。

There's the the adventurers podcast.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有杜兰特的《文明的故事》，这是一套非常长、非常深刻的系列书籍。

There's the the the the books, the story of civilization by Durant, which is a long series of books, very, very deep.

这些书需要很长时间才能读完。

Those books take a long time to get through.

外面有很多这样的内容。

There's quite there's there's a lot out there.

如果你想要一个轻松的睡前播客，我会推荐《英语史》，因为它开头有柔和的酒馆音乐，嗯。

I I sort of like if you want if you want something that's sort of gentle a gentle bedtime podcast, I'd the history of English is quite a nice one because it starts off with, like, gentle tavern music Mhmm.

而且他的声音非常悦耳，他谈论的是古英语、中古英语以及后来的英语，还有这些词都是从哪里来的？

And a very pleasant voice, and he's, like, talking about the story of old English and then middle English and then later English and and where did all these words come from?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，英语的一个有趣之处在于它有点像开源语言，积极地吸收来自许多其他语言的词汇。

And, you know, one of the interesting things about English is that it's somewhat of an open source language, like it actively tried to incorporate words from many other languages.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以相比之下，法语通常会抵制外来词的加入。

So, you know, whereas French sort of generally they fought the inclusion of words from other languages Mhmm.

但英语却主动寻求融入其他语言的词汇，就像一种开源语言。

But English actively sought to include words from other languages, sort of a kind of like an open source language.

因此，它的词汇量非常庞大，而庞大的词汇量能实现更高带宽的交流，因为你可以用一个词来表达原本需要一句话才能说清的意思。

So it it as a result, has a very large vocabulary And large vocabulary allows for higher bandwidth communication because you can use a word that would you can use a single word that might otherwise take a sentence to convey.

为什么播客突然之间变得这么流行？

Why has podcasting become so big all of a sudden?

我觉得它已经火了很久了。

I think it's been big for a while.

我的意思是，你不是做播客的吗？

I mean, aren't you a podcaster?

我们现在在做什么？

What are we on right now?

对我来说有点新奇。

It's kinda new to me.

好吧。

Okay.

我之前在

I was

我和YouTube的首席执行官以及Netflix的首席执行官进行了这场对话。

having this conversation with the YouTube CEO and the Netflix CEO.

我们争论的是，当你观看一部电影时，大脑会释放什么化学物质，而当你收听播客、感觉在背景中学习时，又会释放什么化学物质。

And we were debating what chemical is released in your brain when you consume a movie, for example, versus when you consume a podcast where you think like you're learning something in the background.

看起来它们是两种完全不同的东西。

It it appears that they are two completely separate things.

你觉得明天会发生什么？

What do you think will happen tomorrow?

对内容、电影、播客来说会怎样？

To content, movies, podcasting?

我的意思是，我觉得这将 overwhelmingly 是由人工智能生成的。

I mean, I think I think it's gonna be overwhelmingly AI generated.

是吗？

Yeah?

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Like yeah.

实时的电影和视频游戏。

Real real time real time movies and video games.

我认为，实时视频生成是未来的发展方向。

Real real time video generation, I think, is where things are headed.

那种带有创伤的人类角色，你能与之产生共鸣，而AI却做不到，这种细微差别很重要。

The nuance of having a scarred human being who you can resonate with in a manner that you can't with AI, for example,

普通的AI当然也能很好地模拟一个有创伤的人类。

the normative AI could certainly emulate a scarred human being quite well.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我看到的来自X AI和其他公司的AI视频生成技术已经相当令人印象深刻了。

I mean, the AI video generation that I'm seeing of x AI and from others is pretty impressive.

你知道，我们曾经研究过哪个行业增长最快的数据。

You know, we were looking at data around what industry is growing the fastest.

尤其是当我们比较观看电影的时间与使用社交媒体、YouTube的时间时，发现现场活动正在迅速复兴。

And especially when when we looked at the amount of time consuming movies versus time spent on social media, time spent on YouTube, what seems to be growing really fast are live events all over again.

去参加

Going to a

实际上，我认为当数字媒体无处不在，你几乎可以免费或以极低成本获得任何数字内容时，稀缺的资源将是现场活动。

physical Actually, I think I think live events when when when digital media is ubiquitous and and you can just have anything digitally at, you know, essentially for free or very close to for free, then I the scarce commodity will be live events.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

你认为这种溢价会上涨吗？

Do you think that the premium for that will go up?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为会。

I do.

这是个值得投资的好行业吗？

Good industry to invest in?

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

因为相比任何数字产品，现场活动将更具稀缺性。

Because it that that will have more scarcity than digital any anything digital.

如果你是一名股票投资者，埃隆，

If you were a stock investor, Elon,

并且你可以以今天的估值购买一家公司，

and you could buy one company which

为了实现资本主义目标而非利他主义目标——这对世界有益，你会买哪家公司？

is not your own at the valuations of today to meet a capitalistic end and not an altruistic one, which is good for the world, what would you buy?

我的意思是，我其实并不真的买股票，你知道，我不是那种会去寻找投资标的的人。

I mean, I don't really I don't really, you know, buy stocks, you know, so it's not like I'm not I'm not, like, an invest in I don't, like, look for things to invest in.

我只是努力创造东西，然后恰好我创建的公司有股票。

I just try to build things, and then there happens to be stock of the company that I built.

但我从不考虑是否应该投资这家公司，我没有所谓的投资组合之类的东西。

But I I don't I don't think about should I invest in this company or I don't have like a portfolio or anything.

所以我认为人工智能和机器人将会非常重要。

So I I I guess AI and robotics are gonna be very important.

所以我想，人工智能和机器人可能跟我没什么关系。

So I suppose it would be AI and robotics that's that, you know, unrelated to me.

我觉得谷歌在未来会非常有价值。

I think, you know, Google is gonna be pretty valuable in the future.

他们在人工智能创造巨大价值方面已经打下了坚实的基础。

They've they've they've laid the groundwork for an immense amount of, value creation from an AI standpoint.

至于英伟达，这一点现在已经很明显了。

And NVIDIA is obvious at this point.

我的意思是，有人认为从事人工智能、机器人甚至航天的公司，将几乎囊括所有的价值。

I mean, there's an argument that companies that do AI and robotics and maybe space flight are gonna be overwhelming overwhelmingly the all the value, almost all the value.

因为人工智能和机器人所产生的商品和服务的产出如此之高，将会远远超过其他所有领域。

So the just the the output of goods and services from AI and robotics is so high that it will dwarf everything else.

世界似乎正朝着一种人人都喜欢大卫、憎恨歌利亚的方向发展。

The world seems to be moving to a place where everybody loves David and hates Goliath.

为什么？

Why?

我的意思是，他是那个在额头上嵌入石头的人。

Mean, he's the one that cooked the stone in the forehead.

你知道的？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

说实话，那是个巨大的错误。

Which, honestly, that was just a big mistake.

你应该要么完全用盔甲保护自己，确保你配备某种导弹武器。

You should have, you know, either cover yourself entirely with armor and and and make sure you've got a missile weapon of some kind.

否则，你的对手显然会采用风筝战术对付你。

Otherwise, your opponent is just obviously gonna take a kite the boss strategy.

就围着巴士绕圈跑。

Just kite the bus.

我的意思是，你穿着丁字裤乱跑，根本无所谓。

I mean, you run around in a thong with a it doesn't matter.

你知道的？

You know?

它永远都追不上你。

It's never never gonna catch you.

是的。

Yeah.

在所有这些人里，你简直就像被当成歌利亚一样盯着看。

Of all of all the people, like, you're as much at risk of being looked upon as Goliath.

好吧。

Okay.

尤其是那个周末之后

Especially the weekend after

我们知道他刚才在做什么。

We know what he's just doing.

特别是我不会穿着太多盔甲在沙漠里慢吞吞地走。

Especially I'm not gonna trundle around in the desert with too much armor.

你知道的？

You know?

太难了。

Too hard.

是的。

Yeah.

在上一次跳马之后。

After the last leapfrog.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我，是的。

I Yeah.

我有时会想，以前的人，你知道，打仗时得穿着全套盔甲，但假设是盛夏时节。

I sometimes think about people, like, in the old days, you know, when you're supposed to, like, go into battle with all this armor, but it's, like, let's say it's the middle of summer.

我的意思是，穿着那身盔甲简直热得要命。

I mean, you basically so hard in that armor.

你知道，那会热得让人窒息。

You know, it'd be, like, sweltering.

你知道，到了某个时候，你就会想，我宁愿去死。

Know, You it's like, at some point, you're like, I'd rather die.

我得在烈日下穿着这身盔甲待上一小时。

I have to wear this armor for one hour in the hot sun.

我宁愿去死。

It's like I'd rather die.

这就是为什么罗马人会穿那种裙甲，你知道，这样能透点风。

That's why the Romans had, like, know, the skirts, you know, so they could get some air in there, you know.

你知道吗，假设你穿着盔甲时需要上厕所。

You know, let's say you have to go to the bathroom and you're in armor.

意思是，这会非常困难。

Mean, it's gonna be pretty difficult.

你得停下来几分钟，把盔甲脱掉。

You're gonna do pause for a minute, take your armor off.

这就是为什么罗马人会穿裙甲，至少让上厕所变得能应付。

That's why the the Romans had the skirts, so it makes, you know, going to the bathroom at least manageable.

你经常讲笑话。

You often make jokes.

我的意思是。

I do mean.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢幽默。

I I I like humor.

有人可能会说，我

One could argue that I

我觉得我们应该使幽默合法化。

think we should legalize humor.

你怎么看？

What do you think?

这是一种有争议的立场。

It's controversial stance.

喜剧对人工智能来说会很难掌握吗？

Is comedy comedy gonna be really hard for AI to get?

可能是最后才被攻克的领域？

Probably the last thing?

Grock 可以很好笑。

Grock can be pretty funny.

是的。

Yeah.

你

You

你知道我怀疑什么吗？

know what I suspected?

这算是一个很遥远的推论，但当我看到你在推特和X上，还有你参加的访谈中讲笑话时，我就想，也许埃隆私下里运行着一个模型，正在测试喜剧效果。

Like, this is a far off extrapolation, but when I see you make jokes on twit on x and on, interviews that you do, at some point, I was like, maybe Elon has a model he's running in private, and he's testing out comedy.

因为一旦某个笑话奏效了，他就知道这个模型是有效的。

Because the day that works, he knows it's there.

你知道吗，AI也可以挺搞笑的。

You know, AI can be pretty funny.

所以，如果你让Grock来一段粗俗的讽刺，它能做得相当不错。

So, like, if you ask Grock to do, a vulgar roast, it will do a pretty good job.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你说更粗俗一点，而且继续下去，它真的会达到一个新的水平。

If you say even more vulgar and just keep going, it's really gonna get next level.

它会做出一些不可言喻的事情，比如让你自己在Grok上进行粗俗的讽刺，它会对你做出不可言喻的事。

It's gonna do unspeakable like, say, vulgar roast yourself on Grok, and it's gonna do unspeakable things to you.

什么

What

你喜欢什么样的喜剧？

kind of comedy do you like?

我想我喜欢荒诞幽默。

I guess I like absurdist humor.

喜剧一直都有

Comedy always had a

一个像Python那样的位置。

place Python or something like that.

喜剧在社会中一直占有一席之地，因为小丑的角色对每个王国都至关重要，他们以幽默的方式说出那些无法直白表达的话。

Comedy always had a place in society wherein the role of the jester was so important to every kingdom because they said things in a funny way that could not be said in a straight way.

是的。

Yeah.

我想是吧。

I guess so.

也许我们应该多一些小丑。

Maybe we should have more jesters.

是的。

Yeah.

你说话时开个玩笑，是不是就想做到这一点？

Is that what you're trying to do when

当你开玩笑时，说的是些平时不能说的话？

you say something which is a joke?

说些你不开玩笑时不能说的事？

Say something you can't when you're not joking about it?

我只是喜欢幽默。

I just like humor.

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，我觉得我们应该喜欢喜剧。

Like, I think we should I like comedy.

我觉得这很有趣。

I think it's funny.

人们应该笑一笑。

People should laugh.

是的。

Yeah.

偶尔逗人笑一笑是好事。

It's good it's good to generate generate a few chuckles once in a while.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我们不希望生活在一个没有幽默感的社会里。

It's rather I mean, we don't wanna have a humorless society.

我们会哭的。

We'd cry.

当你哭的时候。

When you So cry.

当你有一个朋友，埃隆。

When you have a friend, Elon

谁？

Who?

我？

Me?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你在说我是有朋友的吗？

I mean Are you saying I have a friend?

当你和朋友在一起时，你是谁？

When you hang out with your friends, who are you?

比如，我知道这个

Like, I know the

我真的希望我有朋友。

I wish I had friends, you know, honestly.

不。

No.

其实我有朋友。

I I do have friends, actually.

我觉得有。

I think so.

我希望有。

I hope so.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

是的，就是这样。

It's it's yeah.

我们经常开怀大笑。

We have a good laugh.

是的。

Yeah.

它看起来像什么？

What does it look like?

每个团体都有自己的氛围。

Like, what's like, every group has a dynamic.

我们会聊天，你知道的。

We talk words, you know.

我们有时候会一起吃饭。

We eat food sometimes.

你知道的，偶尔会去泳池游泳。

You know, once in while, swim in the pool.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道的，我觉得都是一些平常的事。

You know, normal things, I think.

朋友之间能做的事情其实挺有限的，你说那些事到底有哪些呢？

There's a lack of limited what what are the things that one can do with friends, you know?

聊天。

Chat.

讨论，是的。

Have discuss Yeah.

你知道的，宇宙的本质。

You know, the nature of the universe.

你从友谊中获得了哪些情感上的满足？

What do you emotionally get out of friendship?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我认为别人从友谊中能得到的，我也一样。

I think the same thing any anyone else would get out of friendship.

你希望和其他人建立情感联系。

You wanna have, like, an emotional connection with other people.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你想要，我不知道。

And you wanna I don't know.

你想要聊各种话题，是的。

You wanna you wanna talk about various subjects and yeah.

我的意思是，我通常会讨论一些关于宇宙本质的广泛话题。

I I mean, I generally talk about, I mean, wide range of things about the nature of the universe.

我的意思是，很多很多哲学性的讨论。

I mean, a lot a lot of a lot of philosophical discussions.

你知道，虽然我们已经达成共识，不该谈论人工智能或模拟理论，嗯。

You know, although, you know, we have come to conclusion that we should not talk about AI or the simulation Mhmm.

在派对上，是的。

At parties Mhmm.

因为我们已经聊得太多了。

Because we just talk about it too much.

你知道，亚里士多德那种

You know, Aristotle kind

当时有点扫兴。

of a buzzkill at the time.

所以我就

So I

我记不清是哪位了。

I can't remember who it was.

是亚里士多德还是柏拉图。

Aristotle or Plato.

他们有一个基于尊重和相互钦佩来选择朋友的框架，但人们并不会这样选朋友。

They had a framework for how to pick a friend based on respect and mutual admiration, but people don't pick friends like that.

就连我，我也觉得我是根据那些说话和思考方式能与我产生共鸣的人来选择朋友的。

Even me, I feel like I pick my friends based on people who say and think in a manner that I can resonate with.

当然。

Sure.

我不会选一个与我信念体系截然相反的极端反叛者当朋友，因为那样会让人疲惫。

I wouldn't pick a far out there contrarian to my own belief systems as a friend because it would get tiring.

和这样的人相处会

Hanging out would

让人疲惫。

get tiring.

确实如此。

That's true.

是的。

Yeah.

你也是这样吗？

Are you like that?

你是选择那些和你想法相似的朋友，还是寻找那些能与你辩论、持相反观点的人？

Do you pick friends who think like you, or do you look for the one who can debate you and be a contrarian to you?

嗯，我并不是那种到处找朋友的人，别搞得像在猎捕朋友一样。

Well, I'm I'm not sort of, you know, going on like friend friend hunter Let's dot It's hunt down some friends.

这其实有点像这样。

It's it's sort of yeah.

我的意思是，我觉得朋友就是那些在情感和智力上与你有些共鸣的人。

I mean, I think it is just sort of people that you've resonated with somewhat on an emotional and intellectual level.

而且是的。

And yeah.

我的意思是，而且是的。

I mean, and yeah.

你知道，我认为朋友是在你困难时会支持你的人，我想是这样的。

You know, and and a a I guess a friend is someone who's gonna support you in difficult times, I suppose.

患难见真情。

A friend in need is a friend indeed.

比如，当情况糟糕时，如果还有人支持你，那就是真朋友，你知道的。

Like like if if like friend like if someone is still supporting you when the chips are down, that's a friend, you know.

如果有人不支持你，或者只是在顺境时才出现，那种泛泛之交根本没用。

If somebody is not supporting you or is is if somebody is only like, there's, like, fair fair weather friends are useless.

你知道的？

You know?

那不是真正的朋友。

They're not real friends.

所以，当你顺风顺水时，人人都喜欢你。

So, like, everyone likes you when the chips are up.

但当你陷入低谷时，谁还会喜欢你呢？

But who likes you when the chips are down?

对于一个和你一样拥有这么多资源的人，这还重要吗？

With someone who has as many chips as you, would it matter?

我的意思是，这要看具体情况。

I mean, it's relative.