第二乐章——舞动中诞生的所有音乐

大家好。

Hi, everyone.

我是亚伦·科恩。

It's Aaron Cohen.

我们终于发布了第四季。

We've finally released our fourth season.

不知道你们是否注意到了。

I don't know if you noticed.

前三季之间每季都相隔一年。

There was a year between each of the first three seasons.

而这全新的第四季花了两年半时间。

This new fourth season took two and a half years.

为什么？

Why?

因为资金缺口。

Because of gaps in funding.

我们希望能以创纪录的速度推出第五季。

We'd love to get out season five in record time.

希望大家能加入Patreon上的'拥抱一切'社区，支持我们探索马勒交响曲的奇妙世界。

I hope you'll join the Embrace Everything community on Patreon to support our exploration into the wonderful world of Mahler symphonies.

交响曲。

Symphonies.

从5美元到5000美元，每一份支持都意义重大。

From $5 to $5,000, every gift counts.

请访问theworldofgustavmahler.org并点击支持。

Please join us at theworldofgustavmahler.org and click on support.

节目笔记中也有链接。

There's also a link in the show notes.

谢谢。

And thank you.

《拥抱一切：古斯塔夫·马勒的世界》第一季由卡普兰基金会的慷慨资助得以实现。

Season one of Embrace Everything, The World of Gustav Mahler, was made possible by a generous grant from the Kaplan Foundation.

您可以在我们的网站theworldofgustavemahler.org上找到本集节目中所有曲目和演奏者的完整列表。

You can find a complete list of pieces and performers featured in this episode on our website, theworldofgustavemahler.org.

请在X和Blue Sky上关注我们@worldofmahler，在Facebook和Instagram上关注@theworldofGustaveMahler。

Please follow us on x and blue sky at world of mahler, and on Facebook and Instagram at the world of Gustave Mahler.

在本期节目中，我们将探索马勒第一交响曲的第二乐章，并首先深入了解马勒为该乐章借鉴的音乐类型。

In this episode, we'll explore the second movement of Mahler's first symphony, and we'll begin with an extended look at the musical genre Mahler drew upon for the second movement.

然后我们将深入探讨第二乐章本身。

Then we'll dive into the second movement itself.

我是亚伦·科恩。

I'm Aaron Cohen.

希望您喜欢。

I hope you enjoy it.

马勒为第一交响曲的第二乐章选择了舞蹈形式。

For the second movement of his first symphony, Mahler looked to the dance.

在他所处的时代，最流行的舞蹈形式是圆舞曲。

In his era, the most popular dance form was the waltz.

你大概知道所有华尔兹中最负盛名的那首——小约翰·施特劳斯1866年创作的《蓝色多瑙河》。

You probably know the most famous waltz of them all, the Blue Danube by Johann Strauss junior, written in 1866.

维也纳音乐与表演艺术大学的克里斯蒂安·格兰茨教授分享了他对华尔兹的一些看法。

Christian Glantz, a professor at the University of Music and Performing Arts in Vienna, shares some thoughts on the waltz.

华尔兹在十九世纪初逐渐发展成型，尤其在维也纳，成为都市流行音乐的主流形式。

The waltz is developed, especially in Vienna, in the beginning of the nineteenth century, to the leading kind of urban popular music.

维也纳郊区建有许多大型舞厅，人们专程前来跳华尔兹。

There are big dance halls in in the suburbs of Vienna where people are coming to to dance the waltz.

华尔兹堪称当时最时髦的舞蹈风格。

The waltz is a kind of a hip dance style.

马勒对这种音乐有着自己的感受。

Mahler had his own feelings about the music.

我当然不会贬低华尔兹的价值。

I certainly don't hold a low opinion of the waltzes.

我接受它们本真的模样——接受其独特性和令人愉悦的创造性，但不能称之为艺术。

I accept them for what they are and all their uniqueness and delightful inventiveness, but you can't call them art.

它们与艺术的关系，就如同民歌与艺术的关系一样疏离。

They have as little to do with art as has, say, the folk song.

这些短促的旋律由连续八小节乐句构成，毫无发展变化，甚至不存在丝毫演进痕迹，从任何意义上都称不上是作曲。

These short breath melodies of successive eight bar phrases from which nothing develops, in which indeed there isn't the slightest trace of any development, cannot count as composition in any sense of the word.

马勒所说的'发展'，是指我们在艺术音乐中常见的那种音乐主题的演变。

By development, Mahler means the transformation of musical ideas we typically find in art music.

交响乐章长达十五分钟而流行歌曲仅三分钟，这背后自有其道理。

There's a reason why a symphonic movement is fifteen minutes long, and a popular song lasts only three minutes.

要创作出令人满意的较长乐章，作曲家需要更深入地演绎素材，让乐思逐步发展，探索更广阔的变化空间——正如马勒所言。

In order to make a satisfying longer movement, a composer needs to play with the material more, to make ideas evolve, to explore a greater range of development, as Mahler calls it.

不过马勒确实认识到，才华横溢的作曲家能在短篇作品中转化音乐构思，而他特别不吝对某位作曲家的赞美。

However, Mahler did recognize that very talented composers could transform musical ideas within short form pieces, and Mahler was quick to complement one composer in particular.

以圆舞曲为例，与舒伯特的《音乐瞬间》相比，后者对每个小节的演绎、发展和内容处理都是艺术杰作。

Compare Waltzes, for instance, with Schubert's Momont Musico in which the treatment, the development, and content of each single bar is a work of art.

从马勒推崇的发展类型来看，将圆舞曲发挥到极致的作曲家是肖邦。

The composer who made the most out of the waltz in terms of the type of development Mahler admired is Chopin.

在肖邦手中，圆舞曲完成了从民间音乐到流行音乐，再到古典音乐的演变历程。

With Chopin, the waltz had completed an evolution from folk music roots to popular music and then into classical music.

克里斯蒂安·格兰茨指出，马勒是从民间音乐中汲取素材来创作他的舞蹈乐章。

Christian Glantz explains that Mahler returned to folk music for the materials of his dance movement.

我认为马勒在其交响作品和歌曲中对民间音乐的运用与暗示，最重要的体现就在于奥地利古老民谣风格的多样性——这些音乐元素来自马勒生活过的不同环境。

One of the most important things in respect to Mahler's use or allusions towards folk music in his symphonic works and songs, I think lies within the great variety of styles and influences in old Austrian folk music in the surroundings, in the different surroundings of Mahler's life.

马勒自幼耳濡目染的民间音乐风格之一就是连德勒舞曲，这是圆舞曲的前身。

One of the folk music styles Mahler would have grown up with was the Lendler, a predecessor to the waltz.

为了让您感受这种风格，请听听舒伯特创作的连德勒舞曲。

To give you a flavor, listen to a Lendler by Schubert.

芝加哥大学民族音乐学家菲尔·波尔曼为我们提供了一些背景知识。

Phil Bohlman, an ethnomusicologist at the University of Chicago, gives us some background.

连德勒是一种乡村舞蹈。

A Lendler is a rural dance.

它源自乡间土地，所以最贴切的翻译就是'乡土之舞'。

It refers to the land or land, so from the countryside would be the best way to translate it.

在中欧地区，它有许多不同的形式。

And it has many different forms around Central Europe.

它总是以三拍子呈现。

It's always in three.

这是一种三拍子舞蹈，通常节奏缓慢，因为它是造型舞蹈，这与墙壁有着本质区别。

It's a triple meter dance, generally slow because it's a figure dance, and this is a really critical distinction with the walls.

这是一种用于求爱的造型舞蹈，舞伴们相互环绕，仿佛隔窗相望，彼此求爱，并以非常缓慢的速度在舞池中移动。

It's a figure dance used for courting in which a dancing pair frames each other as if in a window, looking at each other, courting each other, and it moves very slowly around the dance floor.

其他作曲家也创作过兰德勒舞曲，比如莫扎特，但华尔兹更为人所熟知。

Other composers wrote Landler's too, Mozart, for example, but the waltz became better known.

乡村兰德勒与城市华尔兹之间存在显著差异，因此它标志着一种文化转型，朝着城市化和现代化方向发展。

There's a rather difference between the Landler as rural and the waltz as urban, and therefore, it marks a cultural transition, toward urbanization and modernization.

蒙特利尔交响乐团指挥肯特·长野表示，这两种舞蹈形式存在显著差异。

Kent Nagano, conductor of the Montreal Symphony Orchestra, says the two dance forms have significant differences.

这不仅仅是关于重音点的位置、是否应该延长强拍并偷取时间，然后主要在第三拍上还回去的问题。

It's not just an issue of, where the stress points is and whether the downbeat should be stretched and stealing time away, and then you give it back mostly on the third beat.

我的意思是，你可以用分析的方式来讨论它。

I mean, you can talk about it in an analytical way.

是的。

Yes.

兰德勒舞曲或许应该稍微慢一点。

Landlers should be maybe a little bit slower, maybe.

但实际上这与现实情况毫无关系。

But actually this has nothing to do with what the reality.

事实上，当你同时跳这两种舞蹈时，身体感受到的差异非常明显。

The reality is that in terms of your body when you dance both of them, they just feel different.

这更接近马勒小时候可能听过的兰德勒舞曲类型。

This is closer to the type of Landler Mahler would have heard as a young boy.

马勒的父亲在他们公寓楼下经营一家酒馆，这类音乐经常在那里演奏。

Mahler's father owned a tavern just below their apartment, and this kind of music would have been performed there frequently.

克里斯蒂安·格兰特表示，马勒从年轻时起就热衷于流行音乐风格。

Christian Glant says popular musical styles were something Mahler embraced from a young age.

马勒小时候在拥有第一架钢琴前，曾为自己拥有一架手风琴而非常自豪。

Mahler was very proud of possessing an accordion himself as a child before he got his first piano.

指挥家肯特·长野说，理解兰德勒舞曲的唯一方法就是学会跳它——就像他多年前尝试的那样。

Conductor Kent Nagano says the only way to understand the Landler is to learn to dance it, as he tried to some time ago.

这确实很滑稽，因为当我必须学习这种舞蹈时，你能想象一个长得像日本人的西海岸美国人学跳兰德勒的样子吗？

And that was really hilarious because when I had to learn how to do that, can you imagine a West Coast American learning how to who looks like a Japanese person.

你知道，我是日裔美国人。

You know, I'm Japanese American.

实际上，穿着传统服装学习这些动作，特别是掌握兰德勒舞的步伐，是相当令人难堪的经历。

Actually learning, to deal with these, with the traditional costumes and actually learning to do the movements of the landlair was, it was quite a humiliating experience.

但当你真正享受这种肢体运动带来的快乐时，就能完全理解这种怀旧或对过去的渴望——我们通过兰德勒舞感受到的情感。

But again, once you can delight in the joy of this corporal movement, you fully understand this concept of nostalgia or zenzucht or a longing for the past, which we feel through the lanner.

这种感受确实需要通过身体去吸收体会。

It's something that really needs to be absorbed into the body.

哥伦比亚大学音乐教授玛丽莲·麦考伊指出，马勒选择将兰德勒舞曲引入交响乐，正是因为它这种原生态、未经驯化的特质。

Marilyn McCoy, a music professor at Columbia University, says Mahler chose to introduce the Lendler into his symphony precisely because of this authentic, undomesticated nature.

琐碎的、音乐的，你知道德语里这么称呼它，实际上这很不公平。

Trivial, musique, you know, they call it in German, and and it's actually it's unfair.

你知道，我觉得对他来说，这有点像选择晦涩的文学作品。

You know, I think for him, it's kind of like it's kind of like choosing obscure literature.

就像是，好吧，行吧。

It's like, well, okay.

这些冷门的音乐元素其实挺酷的，我要把它们融入交响乐的语境中。

Here's these obscure musical items that are kinda cool, and I'm gonna bring them into this symphonic context.

你且看着，看我要怎么处理它们。

And you watch and you see what I'm gonna do with them.

这就是马勒在其第一交响曲第二乐章中的手法。

And here's how Mahler pulled that off in the second movement of his first symphony.

马勒真正的做法是，他采用了这种体裁——要知道即便有乐队，规模也非常小。

What Mahler really did here is, he took this genre, which, you know, if there was a band, it it was really small.

我们说的是两把小提琴加一把低音提琴之类的配置。

We're talking a couple of violins and a bass or something like that.

而他拥有的是庞大管弦乐团。

And so he's got a giant orchestra.

这简直是巨大的声音调色板可供挥洒。

It's just a huge, you know, sort of sonic palette to work with.

马勒被公认为古典音乐史上最伟大的配器大师之一。

Mahler is widely considered to be one of the greatest orchestrators in classical music.

配器艺术就是决定由哪种乐器演奏哪个声部。

Orchestration is the art of deciding which instrument plays what part.

乐手越多，情况就越复杂。

The more musicians you have, the more complicated this becomes.

尽管在

Although in the

第一和第三乐章中，乐团完全退居主题之后，而在第二和第四乐章中，我竭尽全力将其尽可能鲜明地突显出来。

first and third movements, the orchestra completely retires behind its subject matter, in the second and fourth, I took great pains to bring it to the fore as brilliantly as possible.

指挥家迈克尔·蒂尔森·托马斯认为马勒受到了早一代法国作曲家的影响。

Conductor Michael Tilson Thomas suggests that Mahler was influenced by a French composer from an earlier generation.

我认为柏辽兹是个很好的例子，他展现了如何处理乐团、如何处理调性转换方案，以及通过突然变换调性和音区产生的惊人效果。

I think Berlioz would be a good example of how the orchestra is handled, how the scheme of modulations is handled, startling effects by abrupt changes of key and register.

我们来做个小小的比较。

Let's do a little comparison.

这是柏辽兹《幻想交响曲》中的圆舞曲片段。

Here's the waltz from Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique.

玛丽莲·麦科伊。

Marilyn McCoy.

事实上，无论是马勒还是柏辽兹，他们都是拥有难以置信原创想法的人。

Well and and actually, in both Mahler's and Berlioz's case, you have these people who have unbelievably original ideas.

柏辽兹创作了一本关于如何为乐团谱曲的指南。

Berlioz created a manual for how to write for the orchestra.

他是第一个撰写管弦乐配器论文的人。

He was the first one who wrote the treatise of orchestration.

正因为他有如此多的原创想法，他才无所畏惧。

And because he had so many original ideas, he was fearless.

马勒同样无所畏惧。

And Mahler was fearless in the same way.

任何声音创意都不会被忽视。

No sonic idea would be overlooked.

基本上，柏辽兹运用了他能支配的所有乐器，尤其是新式乐器。

Basically, Berlioz used every instrument at his disposal, especially the new ones.

况且在十九世纪，许多新乐器被不断制造出来，音域范围向高低两端延伸。

And in the nineteenth century, a lot of new instruments were being built anyway, extending the range up and down.

对吧？

Right?

所以你需要更高亢的高音和更低沉的低音。

So you want a more high highs and lower lows.

两位作曲家都运用了管弦乐调色板上的全部色彩，常常将其发挥到极致。

Both composers used the full palette of orchestral colors available to them, often pushing it to the max.

回到马勒第一交响曲的第二乐章，马勒拥有而柏辽兹所不具备的，是一种粗犷的躁动感。

Getting back to the second movement of Mahler's first symphony, what Mahler has that Berlioz doesn't is a certain rustic restlessness.

这是为盛大派对谱写的音乐。

It's music for a really big party.

真正盛大的派对。

A really big party.

要知道，跳舞的可不止30个人。

You know, there aren't 30 people dancing.

大概有300人在跳舞，差不多这个数。

There's, like, 300 dancing, something like that.

若将马勒的交响曲视为一部音乐小说，主角在第一乐章中被大自然震撼后，如今已步入人生的新篇章。

If we think of a Mahler symphony as a kind of musical novel, the protagonist, was transfixed by nature in the first movement, is now in a different chapter of his life.

在第二乐章中，这位年轻人正以更加朝气蓬勃、稳健有力的姿态闯荡世界。

In the second movement, the young man is getting around in the world much more vigorously, sturdily, and competently.

马勒最初将这个乐章命名为《满帆航行》。

Mahler originally titled this movement under full sail.

或许他设想中的旅人不仅是在狂舞，更是在远洋探险。

Perhaps he envisioned our wayfarer not only dancing up a storm, but exploring the high seas.

我好像能想象出一艘船在波浪中起伏的画面。

I, like, I can kind of imagine that it's a ship rolling through the waves.

对吧？

You know?

有何不可呢？

Why not?

马勒最终删除了《满帆航行》这个标题。

Mahler eventually removed the underfull sail title.

事实上，他删除了这部交响曲所有原始标题，因为他觉得观众会过于拘泥字面意思。

In fact, he removed all of his original titles from this symphony because he felt audiences would take them too literally.

也许马勒只是想表达他的旅人正在人生之海上惬意航行。

Maybe Mahler simply meant his wayfarer was sailing through life, enjoying every minute of it.

接下来的三声中部段落脱离了冒险氛围，回归到连德勒舞曲的亲密感中。

The next section, called the trio, moves away from adventure, returning to the more intimate feeling of the Lendler.

马勒的朋友娜塔莉·鲍尔-莱希纳特别钟爱这个部分。

Mahler's friend, Natalie Bauer Lechner, was especially fond of this part.

三重奏的美妙舞曲节奏值得特别关注，正如马勒所言，所有音乐都源自舞蹈。

The wonderful dance rhythm of the trio is worthy of special notice, for as Mahler once said, all music proceeds from the dance.

玛丽莲·麦科伊，这段三重奏是交响曲第二乐章的中间部分。

The trio is the middle section of the symphony's second movement, Marilyn McCoy.

而且它更加轻佻，充满了大量的颤音。

And it's much more, sort of flirtatious, and there's a lot of trills.

配器也更为轻盈。

And the orchestration is much lighter.

它略显内敛，但仍保留着某种乡村特色。

It's slightly more domesticated, but it still has those sort of country fied features in it.

中间部分感觉更为拘谨。

The middle section feels a little more inhibited.

或许它实际上更接近圆舞曲。

Maybe it's actually closer to a waltz.

克里斯蒂安·格兰茨认为这是有可能的。

Christian Glantz says this is possible.

在旧奥地利的不同地区，兰德勒舞曲与圆舞曲之间并无明确界限，因此很难划清分界线。

It's not so clear to put a dividing line between landler and waltz because in different regions of old Austria, there are, no clear divisions between Landler and Waltz.

有些兰德勒舞曲在我们听来像圆舞曲，反之亦然。

There are Landlers which sound for our ears like Waltzes and the other way around.

那么如何判断你听的是兰德勒舞曲呢？

So how do you know if you're listening to a Landler?

菲尔·波尔曼将作出解释。

Phil Bohlmann explains.

兰德勒舞曲中有延迟的节拍。

There are delayed beats with the Landler.

所以不只是'啪，啪，啪'。

So it's not just, pa, pa, pa.

而是'啪，啪'。

It's, pa, pa.

啪，啪。

Pa, pa.

马勒早在八年前的1880年就创作过一首兰德勒舞曲。

Mahler had written a Landler eight years earlier, in 1880.

这首歌完全讲述了在舞会上找到爱情的喜悦。

It was a song all about the joys of finding love while at a dance.

他并没有直接引用它，但两者有相似之处。

He doesn't quote it directly, but there are similarities.

请听一下。

Have a listen.

这首名为《汉赛尔与格莱特》的歌曲，具有与第二乐章相同的滚动节奏运动，并共享一些旋律元素。

The song, entitled Hansel and Gretel, has the same rolling rhythmic motion you'll hear in the second movement and shares some of the melodic elements as well.

回到第一交响曲的第二乐章，正如圆舞曲起源于民间音乐最终进入古典音乐一样，菲尔·鲍曼说兰德勒舞曲在马勒手中也得到了发展。

Getting back to the second movement of the first symphony, just as the waltz started as folk music and eventually found its way into classical music, with Mahler, Phil Bowman says the Landler has also evolved.

他在进行风格化处理。

He's stylizing it.

我的意思是，他正在将其转变为一种服务于他国际化目的的音乐。

I mean, he's he's transforming it to something that makes it into a music that serves his cosmopolitan ends.

他并非试图引用民间音乐的元素。

He's not trying to to quote something from folk music.

将这种流行音乐转化为交响乐章时，马勒或许触及了更为原始的本质。

And in turning this popular music into a symphonic movement, perhaps Mahler gets at something even more primal.

指挥家肯特·长野。

Conductor Kent Nagano.

这确实是一种与重力共舞的感觉，感受大地的重量。

It really is the feeling of your playing with gravity, feeling the weight of the earth.

那种难以忘怀的感觉正是如此，一旦你能舞动起来，它将不可逆转地改变你对音乐中连德勒舞曲的诠释方式。

That is what the unforgettable feeling is, and once you can dance it, it has an irreversible effect on how you interpret lendla in music.

这个较慢的中间段落被两个快速段落所框定。

This slower middle section is framed by two faster sections.

当快速段落最终回归时，你会注意到这次铜管乐器的比重增加了。

When the fast section returns at the end, you'll notice more brass this time.

玛丽莲·麦科伊。

Marilyn McCoy.

这有点像打了兴奋剂的连德勒舞曲。

It's kind of like a Landler on steroids.

充满无穷能量，让人忍不住想跳舞。

There's just so much energy, and it makes me wanna dance.

简直令人无法抗拒。

It's it's just irresistible.

世间有无数美妙的舞姿，但无一能与之比肩。

There's so many wonderful dance movements, but none like that.

随着它的动感和摇摆，简直令人难以置信。

With the the momentum and the swing of it, it's just incredible.

马勒《汉泽尔与格蕾太尔》歌曲中的一些歌词再贴切不过了。

Some of Mahler's lyrics from the Hansel and Gretel song couldn't be a better fit.

如果你感到快乐，就加入舞蹈吧。

If you're happy, join in the dance.

如果你有烦恼，就把它们留在家里。

If you've got worries, leave them at home.

如果你亲吻了心上人，那你真是太幸运了。

If you kiss your sweetheart, how lucky you are.