56：切尔西·索达罗谈营养补给、母亲身份以及产后18个月在科纳夺冠

本期节目由我的一对一营养指导项目赞助播出。

This episode is brought to you by my one on one nutrition coaching program.

如果你训练很刻苦，却还在为饮食纠结，如果你总是感到饥饿、精力不足，或者不明白为什么训练没有带来你想要的结果，你并不孤单。

If you're training hard but still second guessing your nutrition, if you're hungry all the time, running low on energy, or wondering why your training isn't translating into the results you want, you're not alone.

这正是我创建一对一营养指导项目的原因。

And that's exactly why I created my one on one nutrition coaching program.

我们与那些寻求清晰指导的耐力运动员合作，他们厌倦了凭感觉或上网搜索来安排饮食。

We work with endurance athletes who are looking for clarity, who are tired of winging it or googling their way through fueling.

你想变得更精瘦，但又不想牺牲能量或运动表现。

You want to get leaner without tanking your energy or performance.

你想保持力量，训练顺利，身体感觉良好。

You wanna keep your strength, train well, and feel good in your body.

通过我们个性化的营养计划以及直接的一对一支持，我们帮助你变得更聪明，控制好食欲，全天精力更充沛，并让你的饮食方式可持续。

Through our personalized nutrition plan with direct one on one support, we help you feel smarter, get that appetite under control, feel more energized throughout the day, and make your nutrition sustainable.

这不是什么限制性节食。

This isn't about restrictive dieting.

而是要建立一套适合你个人生活和目标的方案。

It's about building something that works for you and your unique life and goals.

我们与各个级别的耐力运动员合作。

We work with all levels of endurance athletes.

这个项目是为有真实生活的真实运动员设计的。

This program is designed for real athletes with real lives.

请访问alexlarsonnutrition.com，或点击节目说明中的链接获取更多信息。

Head to alexlarsonnutrition.com or grab the link in the show notes for more information.

我是亚历克斯·拉尔森，运动营养师、耐力运动员，在这里帮你更聪明地补充能量，无需限制或过度纠结。

I'm Alex Larson, performance dietitian, endurance athlete, and here to help you fuel smarter without restriction or overthinking.

我们专注于提供真实、实用的能量补充策略，让你在忙碌的活跃生活中提升表现。

We're all about the real talk and realistic fueling strategies you can use to improve performance while juggling your busy active life.

这里是《耐力运动员播客》。

This is the endurance athlete podcast.

欢迎回到《耐力运动员播客》。

Welcome back to the endurance athlete podcast.

今天的嘉宾是我在播客里念叨了好几个月的人。

Today's guest is someone I've been whining on the podcast for months.

我请到了美国职业铁人三项运动员、铁人世界冠军切尔西·索达罗。

I'm sitting down with American professional triathlete and Ironman World Champion Chelsea Sodaro.

她在2022年创造了历史，在夏威夷科纳赢得了铁人世界锦标赛冠军，而那时她生完女儿才刚满18个月。

She made history in 2022 by winning the Ironman World Championship in Kona, Hawaii, just eighteen months after giving birth to her daughter.

切尔西曾是加州大学伯克利分校的全美田径运动员，最初在田径和路跑比赛中崭露头角，赢得了1万米和3000米的全国冠军，之后在2017年转型铁人三项。

A former all American runner at UC Berkeley, Chelsea first rose to prominence in track and road racing, winning national titles in the 10 k and 3,000 meters before transitioning to triathlon in 2017.

她的运动生涯中包括多次70.3英里赛事的胜利，以及在汉堡的突破性铁人首秀。

Her rise in sports include multiple 70.3 victories, a breakout Ironman debut in Hamburg.

在科纳，她成为26年来首位赢得这一殊荣的美国女性，也是历史上第二位获得该头衔的母亲。

At Kona, she became the first American woman in twenty six years and only the second mother ever to win the prestigious title.

此后，她又赢得了新西兰铁人赛冠军，并在2024年尼斯世界锦标赛上登上领奖台，进一步巩固了自己的传奇地位。

She has since added an Ironman New Zealand win and a podium finish at the twenty twenty four World Championship in Nice to her growing legacy.

她目前由尼尔·亨德森执教，与丈夫史蒂夫和女儿斯凯住在科罗拉多州。

She is currently coached by Neil Henderson and lives in Colorado with her husband, Steve and daughter, Sky.

这次是真心实意的。

This one is real.

很坦诚，我觉得你会很有共鸣。

It's honest, and I think it's going to deeply resonate with you.

我们开始吧。

Let's get into it.

谢谢你今天来参加。

Thank you for joining me today.

能邀请你上节目我特别激动，不过先跟听众们道个歉。

I'm so excited to have you on the podcast and I apologize to those listening.

如果你三月底关注了我的Instagram，就是录制这会儿，我嗓子哑了，到现在还没完全恢复。

If you've been following me on Instagram here at the end of March, as we're recording, I had lost my voice and it has not come back 100%.

所以今天声音有点小。

So I'm just a little today.

高音部分基本是唱不上去了。

I'm not going to have like an upper register at all.

也祝我的播客编辑在剪辑这期节目时好运。

And good luck to my podcast editor in navigating editing this episode.

切尔西，我必须告诉你，而且我保证这百分之百是真心话。

So Chelsea, I have to just tell you, and I promise this is 100% truthful.

在所有铁人三项世界冠军里，你是我最喜欢的。

Out of all the Ironman Championship winners, you are my favorite.

作为一个妈妈，我非常了解怀孕、生孩子以及产后那段时期的种种挑战。

As a mom, I'm very familiar with the many, many challenges of pregnancy, birthing a baby, that postpartum time.

所以看到你冲过终点线，怀里抱着那个18个月大的小家伙，头上戴着科纳冠军花环，那一刻对全世界的妈妈运动员来说意义太重大了。

And so watching you cross that finish line and you had that sweet 18 old on your hip there with the Kona crown, like that was such a huge moment for mom athletes in the world.

我真的感到特别受鼓舞。

And I just felt so inspired.

我记得那时候我的第二个孩子大概也就比你女儿大一点点。

I think at that point I had my second child was probably just a little bit older than your daughter.

所以对我来说，那真的是一个非常重要的时刻，我想对很多妈妈来说也是如此。

And so I just, it was a really important moment, I think for a lot of moms.

我读了很多关于你的故事，想问问你能不能多分享一些产后的经历，因为我知道有很多女性运动员和铁人三项选手都在努力平衡训练和做母亲。

And I read a lot of your story and I was wondering if you could share more about that postpartum experience, because I know that there's a lot of female athletes, triathletes that are out there kind of navigating both their training and motherhood.

是的。

Yeah.

你这么说真是太客气了，亚历克斯。

Well, that's so kind, Alex.

我真的很感激。

I really appreciate it.

我也是你的粉丝。

I'm also a fan of yours.

我还推荐了几个朋友去关注你，因为我觉得你在运动营养和感知身体方面非常有见地。

I sent a few friends your way because I just think that you have such a solid head on your shoulder when it comes to sports nutrition and and feeling our bodies.

所以我非常感激你对我们这个领域的分享。

So I so appreciate your the way you speak into our world.

我觉得这真的很重要。

I think it's really important.

产后是一段既美好又充满挑战的时光。

Postpartum is such a beautiful and challenging time.

我怀孕和产后初期的那段日子全被拍下来了，因为当时有人给我拍了一部纪录片。

My pregnancy and, like, initial post partum period was all filmed because there was a documentary made about me.

职业铁人三项运动员组织PTO当时正在推广他们新出台的产假政策，这在当时是相当具有开创性的。

The PTO, the professional triathlete organization, they were trying to promote their new maternity leave policy, which was pretty groundbreaking at the time.

所以他们发现我怀孕后，就决定用我的故事来大力宣传这项政策。

So they, I when they found out that I was pregnant they decided to use my story to really promote that.

那段时间，一部分是我自己拍的，一部分是摄影师拍的。

This period of time was self filmed and also filmed by some videographers.

有一段视频里，我挺着九个月半的肚子在街上蹒跚走路——顺便说一句，怀孕其实是十个月——我对着镜头说：我打算在预产期那天生，然后休息几周恢复，接着恢复训练，再去比赛，最后争取拿到柯林斯杯的参赛资格。那是一场国际邀请赛，有保底的出场费，所以对我来说特别有吸引力。

There's this video of me waddling down the street when I'm nine and a half pregnancy is ten months by the way TSA nine and a half months pregnant I'm looking at the camera and I say so I'm gonna like give birth on my due date and then I'll take a few weeks to recover and then I'll get back to training and then I'm gonna race and then I'm gonna qualify for the Collins Cup which was this invite race international competition, and there was guaranteed appearance money, which is why it was so attractive to me.

那时候我转战长距离铁人三项才一年左右，必须得挣钱。

I was only a year or so into my long distance racing career at the time, and I had to make money.

而且当时疫情期间，比赛都停了。

Also, during the pandemic, there was no racing.

我当时怀孕了，所以签了合同，

I was pregnant, so I had a contract,

但我大部分收入

but I wasn't most

其实都来自比赛奖金。

of my money came from prize money.

怀孕到那个月份走路摇摇晃晃，不光是因为宝宝的重量，还因为韧带特别松弛，髋部那种感觉真的很奇怪。

When we waddle when we're that pregnant, it's not just because of the weight of the baby, but also because those ligaments are so loose and it's such a weird feeling in your hips.

那种感觉太奇怪了。

It's the weirdest.

确实很诡异，尤其是作为运动员，你对自己的身体状态再熟悉不过了，突然有那种感觉，真的很奇怪。

It's pretty bizarre especially when you're an athlete right and you're so familiar with how your body should feel to have that like sensation is is quite bizarre.

真的很特别。

It's unique

没错。

for sure.

这很特别。

It's unique.

这很特别。

It's unique.

这太不可思议了。

It's incredible.

我是说，我对女性身体的能力有了全新的认识，我觉得这真的很了不起。

I mean, I have this whole new appreciation for what the female body can do and I think it's remarkable.

不过话说回来，我当时有一个非常清晰的计划，知道自己要怎么重返赛场。

But anyway, had this very clear plan of how I was going to return to competition.

现在回想起来，我居然真的把那些计划都一一实现了，真是不可思议。

It's wild, in retrospect, that I really checked all the boxes off.

我确实都做到了，但整个过程比我预想的要艰难得多，痛苦得多，我觉得主要是情感上的煎熬。

I did all things but it was way more challenging and way more painful I think emotionally more than anything than I had anticipated.

而且，我对怀孕和成为新手妈妈这件事也有很多恐惧。

I also had a lot of fear around just getting pregnant and then becoming a new mom.

作为一名职业运动员，自从我女儿出生这五年来，情况变化很大。

As a professional athlete, things have changed quite a bit in the last five years since my daughter was born.

但在我主要的合同里，并没有生育保护条款，而且我签的都是一年期的合同。

But in my main contract, I didn't have maternity protection, and I was actually just on one year contracts.

所以我觉得还有一点大家没怎么提的是，虽然现在很多合同都有了生育保护，进步了不少，但这些合同期限都不长。

So I think that's another thing that people don't talk about is we have progressed quite a bit, where a lot of contracts now have maternity protection in them, but they're not long contracts.

不像那种十年长约，你休一年假，那一年照样拿钱，回来还能继续赚钱。

It's not like a ten year contract where if you miss a year, you you get paid that year and then you come back and you're still making money.

现在这些合同都是一年、两年、三年的，而怀孕到产后恢复比赛，整个过程差不多要两年。

It's like these are one, two, three year contracts and if you're pregnant and the whole process of being pregnant and then returning to racing, that's like a two year process.

就算合同里有生育条款，也谈不上真正的保障。

Even if you have a maternity clause, there's no real protection.

总之，我当时很担心回来之后还能不能有工作，所以急着要恢复比赛。

Anyway, I had a lot of fear around even having a job to come back to, so I felt quite rushed to return to racing.

对。

Yeah.

我总是试着站在职业运动员的角度去想，他们不仅要承受比赛的压力，还想组建家庭，这两者之间的平衡真的很难。

Always try and put myself in the mindset of a professional athlete and the pressure that you have to feel, not only to perform, but then you obviously want to start a family and just have to balance the two.

从心理上来说，这确实很难应对。

It's hard to navigate mentally.

从心理上来说，真的非常难应对。

It is really hard to navigate mentally.

我一直很公开地谈论自己产后的焦虑和抑郁，还有我女儿很小的时候我被诊断出强迫症，我觉得这些问题不是孤立存在的。

And I've been quite public about my postpartum anxiety and depression, like also getting diagnosed with OCD when my daughter was very young and I don't think these things live in a silo.

我认为它们是我们社会体系的产物，尤其是美国，真的需要做得更好。

I think they're like a result of our society systems, and especially The US really needs to do better.

确实需要好得多。

So much better.

而且我们还有这些刻板的性别角色。

And we just have these stereotypical gender roles.

想想我们从小长大的环境，我就待在家里。

I think of where we grew up knowing, I just stay at home.

我得照顾孩子，我丈夫去上班。

I have to take care of the kids, and my husband works.

这就像那种老套的刻板印象，而现在我们这些女性，包括我自己，有事业、爱运动、参加比赛，要同时做好这两件事确实很难。

That's like the old fashioned kind of stereotypical and now we have these women that, myself included, that have careers and are athletic and doing these races and it's definitely hard to do both and do them both like super well.

我记得看过你的一句话，好像是说，我觉得自己在同时尝试做的两件事上都失败了。

I think I saw a quote from you is like, I feel like I'm failing at both things that I'm trying to do at the same time.

但同时，这对我来说又非常重要。

At the same time, it's so important for me.

我经常跟我的大儿子说，尤其是当我离开家的时候，他会很挣扎。

And I tell this to my oldest, especially is struggles when I leave the house.

所以比如我去俄勒冈参加一个砾石骑行营，我就会跟他说，兄弟，我要去只做亚历克斯了。

And so like, if I go to a gravel camp in Oregon, and I'm like, buddy, I'm gonna go and just be Alex.

对我来说，花时间只做亚历克斯、暂时放下妈妈的身份，真的很重要。

It's really important for me to take time to just be Alex and take a break from being a mom.

他好像能理解这一点。

And that like kind of resonates with him.

但与此同时，他又会说，妈妈，我理解，但我还是想让你待在家里。

But at the same, he's like, mom, I understand, but I still want you to stay home.

我就说，我明白，孩子。

I'm like, I get that buddy.

但我也需要做回我自己，因为这样我才能回来做一个更开心的妈妈。

But like, I too also just need to be a person and because then I can come back and be a happier mom.

但这很难，因为你确实会有那种当妈的愧疚感。

But it's hard because like you do have that mom guilt.

我想问问你，2022年你在科纳比赛之后，我读到关于你的报道，如果我说错了你可以纠正我，但我记得读到过，大概是在那个春天，也就是你产后十到十二个月的时候，你开始重新找回自己的感觉。

I was curious from you in 2022 when I was reading about you after you went at Kona that and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading that right around like that springtime, which I think for you is right around that like ten, twelve months postpartum that you were starting to feel like yourself again.

我对我三个孩子都有这种感觉，大概在十个月左右的时候，我就会想，哦，我开始真正感觉像自己了。

That's how I always felt with all three of my kids that around that ten month mark was where I was like, Oh, I'm starting to actually feel like myself.

很多女性生完孩子后，会变得很害怕，因为她们感觉没有恢复正常。

So many women after they have a baby, they're like, they get kind of, they get really scared because they don't feel back to normal.

她们不会在心理上、身体上和情感上迅速恢复过来。

Like they don't, they don't just bounce back in terms of like mental and physically and emotionally.

那你是不是也是差不多在产后十到十二个月的时候，开始觉得‘对，我恢复过来了’？

And was that the case for you about that ten, twelve month mark where you started to feel kind of like, yeah, I'm there.

我回来了。

I'm back.

是的，我觉得自己很幸运，因为女儿五个月大的时候，我的体能就恢复得相当不错了，还拿到了科林斯杯的参赛资格。

Yeah, think I was really fortunate in the sense that I reached a pretty good level of fitness when my daughter was five months old and I did qualify for that Collins Cup.

我去参加了比赛，当时大概有18位世界顶尖女选手在场，我跑了第六快的成绩。我当时想，‘哦，我快要重新成为世界顶尖选手了’。不过之后我的腓骨出现了应力性反应，如果你想聊这个，我们可以深入谈谈。

I went and raced there and I think I had, I want to say like the 18 best women in the world were there 18 or 20 something like that and I had the sixth fastest time and I thought oh I'm I'm like on my way back to being one of the best in the world again I did get a stress reaction to my fibula shortly thereafter which we could dig into if you wanted to.

孕期和产后的营养补给问题。

Fueling during pregnancy and postpartum.

我想那让我看到了一丝希望，因为当时我真的在怀疑自己。

I guess that gave me a little glimmer that there was hope for me because I really was questioning myself.

我是说，一边比赛一边哺乳还要到处旅行，这经历真的很特别。

I mean it's quite a trip to be racing and lactating and traveling.

太耗精力了。

So much energy.

这真是太疯狂了。

It's pretty wild.

Sky五个月大的时候，我从美国飞到斯洛伐克，当时根本没人讨论这事该怎么安排。

I traveled from The US to Slovakia when Sky was five months old and there was no conversation of how that was gonna happen.

他们就说：‘你自己想办法过来，祝你好运！’

Was just like, You gotta get yourself here and good luck!

差不多就是这样。

Kind of.

所以我把她留给我妈妈，那时她才五个月大，我还得说服酒店帮我储存母乳。

So I left her with my mom when she was five months old and I had to convince the hotel to store my breast milk.

说实话，整个过程简直是一场折腾。

I mean, was a whole ordeal.

如果旅行中还要湿着泵奶，那真是太糟糕了。

If travel is wet pumping, it's horrible.

对，这确实是个大麻烦。

Yeah, it's a whole thing.

至少那场比赛让我看到了一丝希望，觉得自己正在走上正轨，但后来我受伤了，然后直到2022年夏天参加汉堡铁人三项赛时，我才真正找到感觉。

At least that performance gave me a glimmer that I was on my way and then I got injured and then I guess it wasn't really till I raced Ironman Hamburg in the summer of twenty twenty two.

大概是2022年6月或7月吧，那时候我才觉得，哦，我爱上了这个新距离。

I want to say it was June or July 2022 that I felt like, oh, I love this new distance.

那是我第一次参加铁人三项赛。

It was my first Ironman.

我真的很喜欢这个新距离，感觉状态特别好，尤其是在游泳和骑车部分。

I love this new distance and I feel like I felt really good, especially on the swim and the bike.

看起来我的跑步能力也在慢慢恢复。

It seemed like my run was coming back.

说起来挺有意思的，因为在那之前我那年还比了几场70.3的比赛，在欧申赛德拿了第七，然后在马略卡岛那场比赛拿了第三，我当时特别沮丧。

It's so funny because I raced a couple of 70 three's before that that year and I think I was seventh in Oceanside and then I was third at this race in Majorca and I was devastated.

我特别失望。

I was so disappointed.

我以为自己已经恢复状态了，会有一场出色的比赛，但现在回想起来，天哪，那成绩其实已经很棒了！

I thought that I was back and I was gonna have this great race and now I'm like, oh my gosh, it was so good!

这只是一个过程，对吧？

It's just a process, right?

而且需要更长的时间。

And it takes longer.

对有些女性来说，我想说的是，这真的很因人而异。

For some women, I guess it's so individual is what I'm trying to say.

最难的就是你不能拿自己和别人比较。

That's what's really hard is you can't compare yourself to anyone else.

我上周刚做了第一次主题演讲，之后有问答环节，一位非常可爱的女士说，作为业余或年龄组运动员，我们看到你冲过终点线，我们怎么能不拿自己和你比较呢？

I just did my first keynote type event last week and there was Q and A after and this really lovely woman said, As kind of recreational or age group athletes, we see you crossing the finish line, how are we supposed to not compare ourselves to you?

或者当别人问我，切尔西能做到，你也能做到！

Or when people ask me, Chelsea can do that, you can do that too!

我想，首先，职业运动员都有点像怪胎，对吧？

And I think, first of all, professional athletes are kind of freaks, right?

他们是异类。

They're anomalies.

这就是为什么他们在自己的运动项目中能成为顶尖选手。

That's why they're the best at what they do in their sport.

但同样，每个人的经历都截然不同。

But also, everyone's journey is so different.

我有时候看到像埃莉·圣皮埃尔这样的运动员，就会想，天哪，你儿子出生后怎么还能跑得这么快？

I sometimes look at an athlete like, oh, St Pierre, Ellie St Pierre, I'm like, Oh my gosh, how are you running so quickly after your son is born?

但我不了解她生活的实际情况，她只专注于一项运动，而且大多数跑步运动员每周最多训练12次，对吧？

But like, I don't know the realities of her life set up and she's doing one sport and the most, like, runners train 12 a week at the most kind of deal, right?

我不清楚她生活的具体安排，她得到了什么样的支持，每个人的身体都不一样，我们怀孕的方式不同，分娩过程也不同，这些都会影响我们恢复的速度。我觉得我当时太专注于如何尽快恢复到巅峰状态了。如果我知道以后还要在职业生涯中经历一次，我想我会给自己少很多压力，更享受产后初期的那段时光，同时也会更注重长远规划，因为我在早期为了复出做出的一些决定，可能对我的长期健康产生了影响。

Like, I don't know the mechanics of her life and what kind of support she bodies are so different like how we carry our babies are different our births are different and this all impacts how quickly we come back I think I was so focused on like how fast can I get back to peak performance now if I were you know to ever do this again during my competitive career I guess I would put a lot less pressure on myself and I would enjoy that early postpartum period time more and also think more about the long game because there are certain decisions that I made early on to come back that I think have impacted aspects of my health long term?

我们来聊聊那个应力性骨折，以及怀孕和分娩后身体恢复所需的营养需求。

Let's talk about that stress fracture and the nutritional demands of healing from being pregnant and delivering a baby.

母乳喂养会消耗你大量的精力。

Breastfeeding, which takes so much energy out of you.

每盎司母乳大约需要二十到二十二卡路里。

For every ounce of breast milk, it's around like twenty, twenty two calories.

所以你想啊，一个宝宝每天喝个三十、三十五、四十盎司的奶，那根据母乳的脂肪含量不同，一天下来就是五百、六百、七百，甚至轻松到八百卡路里。

So like if you think about feeding a baby that's drinking, you know, thirty, thirty five, 40 ounces a day, like it's anywhere from 500, 600, 700, easily 800 calories, depending on like the fat content of your breast milk.

再加上你还要训练，睡眠又不足，这真的特别消耗人。

And on top of all of the training that you're doing and like the sleep deprivation and like it's just incredibly taxing.

而且我不知道你有没有注意到，只要我吃不好或者一运动，我的奶量就会直线下降。

And I don't know if you noticed this, but any time like if I didn't eat well or if I started exercising my my milk supply would just tank.

变化快得一夜之间就能看出来。

It was overnight how quickly it can vary.

再多聊聊那次应力性骨折吧，那段时间你有哪些感悟？

Talk more about that stress fracture and what kind of your realizations were during that time.

其实当时没人跟我讲清楚，母乳喂养和泌乳会消耗那么多能量。我知道这事，但说实话，我没意识到——

So I don't know if that was articulated to me, like how much energy I was expending breast feeding and lactating I knew that I guess I didn't realize no

没人提过这事，真的没有。

one talks about it no

没人聊这个。我特别想强调，现在大家讨论这个话题的方式跟五年前比，甚至跟十年前比，简直天差地别。我是说，短短时间内我们进步了这么多，真的很了不起。

one talks about it and I like can't stress enough how different the conversation is now compared to five years ago and even five years before that I mean it's like pretty far how pretty amazing how far we've come in such a short period of time.

但我觉得当时身边没有合适的人，也没有得到正确的建议。

But I don't think I had the right people around me and the right advice at the time.

这不是针对个人的批评。

That's not a personal critique.

更像是，我觉得当时和我合作的那些人，并不真正了解如何在这个时期支持我。

It's more like I don't think that the people I was working with really had knowledge to support me on during this period of time.

我记得产后大概三个月的时候，我就开始恢复训练了。

I remember even when I was maybe three months postpartum, I doing like starting to train.

我当时每周大概训练二十个小时，而且还会进行低碳水化合物的骑行训练，想提高我的脂肪燃烧效率。

I think I was training like twenty hours a week and I was doing rides with no carbs, trying to improve my fat max.

那种做法我现在是不会再做了。

That's not something that I would do anymore.

那是因为当时你的教练给你的建议吗？

Was that because of the coach you were working with at the time?

是的，那确实是当时别人给我的建议。

Yeah, I think that was advice that I was given at the time.

我现在对自己想要达成的目标有了不同的理解。

I just have a different understanding of the goals of what I'm trying to achieve now.

根据我了解的研究，提高脂肪最大氧化率的方法其实就是进行非常长时间的有氧耐力训练。

From what I understand with the research, the way we improve our fat max is just by doing really long endurance sessions.

我们不需要空腹训练，也不需要不吃碳水化合物。

We don't need to do fasted training or training with no carbs.

所以我觉得那段时间我确实处于能量不足的状态。

So I think I was definitely in a low energy state during that time.

我女儿出生时有些并发症，所以我们的母乳喂养过程非常艰难，她还有牛奶蛋白过敏。我当时非常执着于用母乳喂养她，你知道吗，在我的圈子里，母乳是最好的，如果我们不给孩子喂母乳，她就上不了哈佛，还会得各种病。

I had some complications with my daughter when she was born so we had a really challenging breastfeeding journey and she also had a milk protein allergy and I was like very set on feeding her with breast milk you know in my circle breast is best and if we don't, you know, feed our kid breast milk, then they're not going get into Harvard and they're going get all the diseases in the world.

如果她将来想去科纳参赛，那她也去不了。

She won't make it to Kona someday if she wants to.

我想说，当我出现应力性骨折时，我的想法改变了很多。那时她大概六个月大，我的骨头真的在断裂，我想，我们试试配方奶吧！

And I guess I would say my perspective has changed a lot when I got that stress reaction, I guess think she was six months old and my bones were literally breaking, I thought, We're gonna try formula!

而且当时我需要泵奶，我完全是靠泵奶喂养的。

And also when you have to pump I was pumping exclusively.

所以从她两周大开始，我这一辈子从没为任何事这么努力过，包括我当铁人三项运动员的时候，都比不上喂母乳这么拼。

So starting when she was two weeks old, I have never worked harder at anything in my life than breastfeeding my child and I'm an Ironman athlete.

那真是一段非常非常艰难的经历。

It was a very, very challenging journey.

切尔西，我前两个孩子都是纯泵奶喂养的，到第三个孩子时，我下定决心要改变。

Chelsea, I exclusively pumped both my first two and then the third baby I was like determined.

我当时就想，这个最小的孩子我一定要搞定，因为家里还有两个大点的男孩到处跑。

Like I was like, I'm gonna figure it out with this last baby because I've got these two older boys that are going to be running all over.

我就想着能直接让她吃奶，不用再泵奶、处理奶瓶那些麻烦事。

Like I just need to be able to like put her on the boob and not have to like pump and deal with eggs and bottles.

所以有无数次我都想放弃，但一直坚持着，总听人说熬到六周就好了。

And so there were so many times when I wanted to quit, but I kept going like, oh, I kept hearing if I can get to six weeks.

我听说到了六周情况就会稳定下来。

I heard that they get things settle at six weeks.

所以有太多夜晚我都在想，天哪，我该怎么熬过去啊？

So there were so many nights where I like, Oh my God, how can I get through this?

我当时想，我都不确定能不能撑到六周。

I'm like, I don't know if I can get to six weeks.

后来终于到了六周，我就想，好吧，其实也还行。

Then finally I got to six weeks and I'm like, Okay, yeah, it was fine.

但说实话，母乳喂养真的超级难，纯泵奶更是又累又费时间。

But man, breastfeeding is fricking hard exclusively pumping is even harder and more time consuming.

那确实够呛。

It's gnarly.

对，我有点跳来跳去的，但我觉得我们试过了。

Yeah, I'm jumping around a little bit but I think we tried.

我都不记得了。

I don't even remember.

现在全都模糊了，其实也无所谓了。

It's like all a blur now and it doesn't even matter.

我觉得我孩子很棒，她聪明又优秀，为了让自己心里好受点，我还给她买了德国很贵的配方奶粉，其实都没事，都没事。反正她当时有牛奶蛋白过敏，所以医生建议我如果还想继续母乳喂养，就得戒掉所有牛肉和奶制品，基本上就是所有跟牛有关的东西。我作为一个运动员，平时很依赖希腊酸奶，也绝对是个爱吃肉的人，尤其是牛肉。

Think that my kid is amazing and she's smart and wonderful and great and I bought her really expensive formula from Germany to make myself feel better about the whole situation it's all fine it's all fine anyway she had a milk protein allergy so I was advised if I wanted to keep on breastfeeding that I needed to cut out all beef and dairy basically like any cow related products and I think as a athlete I rely on like lots of Greek yogurt I definitely am a beef eater like a meat eater

很好的铁来源。

great iron source I

什么都吃，对吧。所以我觉得训练、戒掉一些重要的食物类别、哺乳，所有这些加在一起，就造成了能量不足的完美风暴。

eat all the things yeah and so I think the combination of training, cutting out some really big food groups, lactating, all of this created the perfect storm of having some energy deficiency.

而且我当时开始恢复状态了。

And I was starting to get fit.

我正在为70.3英里半程铁人三项世界锦标赛训练，就在那时我的腓骨受伤了。我觉得自己当时正在挑战表现的极限，当你营养不足、睡眠又少的时候，就很容易受伤。

I was training for the seventy point three World Championship at the time when my fibula got injured and I think I was like you know starting to ride the line in performance and when you're not fueled properly and you're not sleeping a lot that's when when you get injured.

你觉得产后这段时间最让你惊讶的是什么？

What do you feel like was the most surprising thing about your postpartum time?

回想起来，我有点伤感。因为当我女儿被放到我怀里时，我看着她，心里想：你就是为我而生的，我也是为你而生的。

I feel like a little melancholy when I think back to it because when my daughter got placed in my arms, I just looked at her and I thought, You are like, made for me and I am made for you.

她就像我的灵魂伴侣。

And she's like my soul sister.

我对她着迷，从我第一次看到她的眼睛那一刻起就一直是。

I'm enamored with her and I have been from the moment that I looked into her eyes for the first time.

我觉得这种爱太深刻了，只有亲身经历才能真正体会。

I think it's like such a profound love that you can experience it until you do.

但与此同时，我正经历着相当严重的心理健康问题，而且没能找到合适的支持。

But then at the same time, I was having like pretty serious mental health challenges and I like wasn't able to find the right support.

在这个国家，找到负担得起的心理治疗真的太难了。

It's so hard to find affordable therapy in this country.

我现在认识一些很棒的治疗师，无论是专业上还是作为朋友，他们都在做很有意义的工作，但这样的人太少了，而且服务也不够普及。

I know some incredible therapists now, both professionally and as friends, and they're doing the good work, but we don't have enough of them and it's not accessible enough.

在我女儿还很小的时候，我没能找到好的支持。

I wasn't able to find good support when I needed it when when my daughter was really young.

是的，你可以告诉新手妈妈，嘿，这真的会很辛苦。

Yeah, like you can tell a new mom like, Hey, this is going be really hard.

你也可以做好准备，告诉自己这真的会很辛苦。

And like, you can go in prepared like, This is going be really hard.

但你就是做不到。

But you're just not.

你根本没法准备，因为这事儿就是没法准备。

You can't can't can't prepare for it because it's just like it's something.

但同时，这也是你人生中最美好的时光。

But it's also like the most wonderful time of your life too.

真的很奇怪。

It's so weird.

就像，你会爱上它，但也会觉得好难。

Like I'm like you're gonna love it but you're also gonna be like this is hard.

是的，我真的很期待以后再来一次。

Yeah, I'm really excited to do it again at some point.

第二次会容易一些，因为你已经有准备了。

It is easier the next time around because you're prepared.

我觉得至少能保证孩子活着吧。

You can keep the baby alive, I think.

我不打算在保持这个竞技水平的时候再生一个孩子，我很想知道，如果我没有那种必须尽快恢复巅峰状态的压力，那会是什么样的体验。

I don't think that I want to have another baby while I'm still competing at this level and I'm quite curious what the experience would be like when I don't have that pressure to, you know, get back to peak performance so clearly.

对，而且我特别喜欢，比如我想到了贝丝·麦肯齐和莫琳达·卡弗里，她们现在有孩子了，还在搞超长跑，依然活跃在这个运动里。我还是会劝切尔西，你迟早得来参加砾石赛。

Yeah, well and I just love like for I'm thinking of like Beth McKenzie and Morinda Carfrey who have kids now and they're doing like ultra running and like they're still in the sport and I'm still gonna advocate Chelsea that you come and race gravel at some point.

所以，我给你列了个清单，因为我真想找时间跟你一起。

So yeah, my list for you to do, because I'd love to join you for some time.

所以，就是这样，你随时可以退役，从铁人三项退役，然后还会有另一项运动，你同样会非常出色。

So, like that's the thing, like you can retire, like whenever you're ready, you can retire from triathlon and there's going to be another sport that you're going to be fantastic at to.

好，我有个问题，因为这是我产后也注意到的事情。

Okay, so I have a question because this is something that I've noticed as well postpartum.

我觉得我现在比二十多岁还没生孩子时，是个更好的运动员。

I feel like I'm a better athlete now than I was in my late 20s before I started having kids.

因为我现在更能忍受痛苦了。

And it's because I can suffer so much easier.

我就想，如果我能生三个孩子，母乳喂养，还专门泵奶，严重睡眠不足。

Like I'm like, if I can have three babies and breastfeed and exclusively pump them and like be super sleep deprived.

那我就能撑过接下来这两分钟的最大摄氧量间歇，或者拼完比赛最后这十英里。

Like I can get through this next like two minutes of a VO2 max interval or like I can hammer it out this final like 10 miles of my race.

我就觉得自己的心理素质强大了很多。

Like I just feel like I'm mentally so much stronger.

你也有这种感觉吗？

Did you notice that as well?

你知道吗，我对自己其实挺苛刻的。

You know, I'm really hard on myself.

有时候吧，我身边总有些人，让我觉得他们一直在质疑我的坚韧。

I guess at times I've been surrounded by people who I felt like were really questioning my toughness.

有意思的是，我回想起2024年在尼斯举行的铁人三项世锦赛。

And it's so interesting because I look back to a race like the Ironman World Championships in Nice in 2024.

当时我髌骨骨裂，跟腱受伤，身体还有其他一些问题。

Like I had a cracked patella and an Achilles injury, and some other health stuff going on.

但我还是拼尽全力，站上了领奖台。

And I, like, buried myself to finish on the podium.

每当我想起自己有多坚韧，脑海里浮现的就是那个画面。

And that's what I think of when I think of, like, how tough I am.

我确实觉得，我不知道自己是不是比生斯凯之前更坚强了，但我觉得我的承受力可能更深了。

I definitely think that don't I know if I'm tougher than I was before I had Sky, but I think maybe the well is deeper.

而且我也觉得，在生她之前，我的整个生活都围绕着运动。

And I also think that before I had her, whole entire life revolved around sport.

但需要说明的是，现在我的生活大部分仍然围绕着运动。

And it's important to note that much of my life still revolves around sport.

这是我的工作，我热爱它，目标是追求卓越，这几乎占据了我全部精力。

This is my work and I love it and the goal is excellence which is fairly all consuming.

我想我现在有了另一个更重要的身份部分。

I guess I have this whole other part of my identity now which is more important to me.

我觉得这给了我一种自由，可以大胆尝试、接受失败，去做正确的事。

I think that's given me this freedom now to take big swings and fail and to do the right thing.

我最近经常提到这个，我的朋友布拉德·斯托尔伯格写了很多关于可持续卓越的文章，他是畅销书作家，他鼓励我思考自己的核心价值观，那就是卓越、正直、家庭和服务。

I've been talking about this a lot recently, but my friend Brad Stolberg, who writes a lot about sustainable excellence, he's a best selling author, he has really encouraged me to think about my core values, which are excellence, integrity, family, and service.

我觉得我现在对这些价值观的投入程度，可能是在生斯凯之前没有意识到的。

And I think I'm just so committed to those now in a way that maybe I hadn't realized before I had Sky.

她来到我生命里之后，很多事情都变得特别清晰。

There was a lot of clarity when she came into my life.

我现在不会再像以前那样忍气吞声了，这一点我挺自豪的，虽然有时候也挺有挑战性，说实话，这让我的生活更复杂、更困难，但我觉得也正是因为这样，我才能在运动领域有所作为。

I just don't take shit in the way that I did before I had her, which is something that I'm proud of and is challenging at times and I think, gosh, makes my life more complicated and difficult, but also I think why I've been able to make an impact in my sport.

我有时候会这么说，好吧，你忍一下，我要化身犀利营养师了，有些话不吐不快。

I sometimes describe it as like, okay, bear with me right now, we're going to be spicy dietitian and I'm going have some things to say.

稍微犀利一点挺好的，真正表达自己的观点和价值观。

It's good to be a little spicy and to really share your views and your values.

所以你看，我们去年七月在Instagram上联系上了，就在女子环法自行车赛之后，我们俩都对媒体老拿女性运动员的身体说事感到很不爽。

So for you and I, we connected on Instagram last year, around that July time right after the women's Tour de France, we were both really bothered by the media's habit of making female athletes' bodies a talking point.

如果你不介意的话，愿意分享一下你被问到关于身体和体重问题的经历吗？

If you don't mind, you want to share your experience with questions about your body and weight?

是的，我觉得任何女性运动员，尤其是我从事这项运动这么久，都免不了在不同时期被人评论体重和身材。

Yeah, I think like any female athlete, especially with how long I've been doing it, we have all gotten comments about our weight and our bodies at various times.

有意思的是，我当跑步运动员的时候，尤其是特别年轻那会儿，大家觉得我块头挺大的。

It's so interesting because like, when I was a runner, I felt like especially, like, as a really young runner, I was, like, considered, like, bigger.

而且当时有很多关于我身材的评论。

And there were lots of, like, comments about my eyes.

我记得有一次，我在大学里骶骨骨折后恢复，有人对我说，你的臀部看起来变大了。后来作为铁人三项运动员，我又被告知我体型偏小，太小了。就是那种毫无建设性、毫无帮助的评论。我觉得我们根本不知道别人正在经历什么，对吧？

I remember at one point I was, like, coming back from a sacral breast fracture in college and someone said to me it looks like you're getting bigger in your, in your backside and then I think as a triathlete I'm I've been told like that I'm on the smaller side and I'm too small I guess just like comments like that that aren't productive or helpful and I think we don't know what is going on with people, right?

在任何领域都一样，我们不知道别人正在经历什么，也不知道他们的生活、身体或健康状况如何，对吧？

Like any realm, we don't know what people are experiencing or what is going on with their life or their body or their health, right?

所以，发表评论是毫无意义的。

So it's not productive to comment.

是啊，那我应该长什么样呢？

Well, it's like, what am I supposed to look like?

难道铁人三项运动员有一个固定的理想体型吗？

What is the is there a defined ideal triathlete body?

那种东西只存在于人们理想化的想象中，根本不存在，但这真的很让人抓狂。

Like, that doesn't exist just in people's mind what they idealize, but it's maddening.

确实如此，一点没错。

That's what it is, for sure.

就像我刚才说的，尤其是职业运动员，我们属于那0.001%的群体。

Like I was saying before, especially with professional athletes, we're the point 001%.

我们不是普通人，每周训练三十小时并不是健康的标准。

We're not normal, and training for thirty hours a week isn't the model of health.

抱歉。

I'm sorry.

如果你只是想维持健康的生活方式，那可不是这么做的。

That's not what you do if you're just trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

这关乎的是巅峰表现，有时候，尤其是在备战重大赛事时，我们的身体会发生变化，这很正常，只要是以健康的方式进行就没问题。

This is about peak performance, and sometimes, especially when we're preparing for really big events, our bodies change and that's okay especially if we're doing it in a healthy way.

在营养师、饮食专家、医生和教练的指导下，我们就是想在某个特定日子看看自己能发挥到多好。

If it's guided by nutritionists and dietitians and doctors and coaches like we're trying to see how good we can be on one particular day.

我知道在环法自行车赛期间，关于弗兰·普罗沃身材偏瘦的讨论很多。

I know there was a lot of discussion around a lean Franproveau's body in the Tour de France.

我觉得这个例子有意思的是，大家怎么不去讨论塔德伊·波加查有多瘦，或者乔纳斯·温格高有多瘦，以及那种状态有多不健康呢？

What's so interesting to me about that example is people aren't talking about how lean, you know, Tade Pogacar is or how lean Jonas Finnegard is and how unhealthy that is.

她们确实很瘦。

And they're very lean.

对，她们确实很瘦。

And they are very lean.

大家讨论的是她们骑得有多快，比赛中的动态变化，以及获胜的差距。

They're talking about how fast they're going and they're talking about the dynamics of the race and the margins of win.

但像波琳这样的运动员达到运动巅峰时，大家却只关注她的外表。

Whereas when someone like Pauline is achieving the pinnacle of her sport, it's like all we can focus on is what she looks like.

我稍微了解了一下她的故事。

I looked into her story a little bit.

里面提到她从四月到七月减了多少体重，而她四月份的比赛明明赢了，对吧？

It talked about how much weight she had lost from April, her race in April, which she won, right?

她赢过很多比赛，不只是公路赛，还有山地自行车赛。

And she's won like lots of races, not only in road riding, also in like mountain biking.

四月份的时候，大家就在讨论她从四月到七月减了多少体重。

In April, they talked about how much weight she lost from April to July.

当时有人问我一个问题，如果她在四月就找亚历克斯帮忙减肥，你会接她这个客户吗？

And I had a question from someone there like, if she asked Alex to work with her in April to lose weight, like, would you take her on as a client?

我当时觉得，这问题问得挺好。

And I was like, that's a good question.

当然，我并没有保利娜的全部信息，但她在那么短时间内减掉的体重，以及这明显是临时性的体重变化，对吧？

And I don't have all of the information about Pauline, obviously, but the amount of weight she lost in that amount of time and the fact that it was going to be a temporary weight shift, right?

就是说，比赛结束后，体重又会回升到原来的水平。

Like after the tour, was going to shift back up to in that weight.

我就想，你知道吗？

I'm like, you know what?

我可能会接，因为我会尽全力确保她以非常健康的方式调整身体成分，同时不影响她的运动表现、骨密度和激素水平。

I probably would because I would want to really strive to make sure that she shifted that body composition in a way that was very healthy for her and still supported her performance and her bone density and her hormone levels.

我觉得我其实愿意接受这个挑战。

I think that I would actually be open to that challenge.

我不会直接说，不行，这不健康。

And I wouldn't be like, No, that's not healthy.

但话说回来，她毕竟是那0.001%的个例。

But it's like, again, she's the point 001%.

好吧，对，那就这么干吧。

Like, Okay, yeah, let's do this.

但我们要用最适合这种情况的方式来做。

But let's do this in the best way possible for this situation.

而且这不会是永久性的。

And it's not going to be forever.

其实我最大的一个不满是，我觉得女性运动员身上背负了太多偏见。

One of the biggest gripes that I have actually is I think for female athletes, there's just so much stigma.

我们总是太快地去审视女性运动员的身体，然后说：‘她有问题。’

We're so quick to like look at a female athlete's body and say, She has a problem.

她有饮食失调。

She has an eating disorder.

而且我们总是把相对能量缺乏症和某种心理疾病混为一谈。

And we conflate reds with having a psychological disease.

对。

Yeah.

这两件事完全不同。

These are two very different things.

而且我觉得因为这件事有太多污名，反而让我们更难进行有建设性的对话。

And I think because there's so much stigma around it, it makes us less likely to have productive conversations.

完全同意。

100%.

当记者问起你的体重或身材时，你那一刻脑子里在想什么？

When a reporter asks you about your weight or your body, what goes through your mind in that moment?

你会反驳吗？

Do you push back?

还是直接回答？

Do you just go ahead and answer?

你一般怎么应对这种情况？

How do you approach that?

对，我一时想不起来最近在公开采访中有被问过关于我身体的问题。

Yeah, I can't remember a time recently where I've been asked about my body in an interviewer public setting off the top of my head at least.

我现在面对媒体比年轻时当运动员时自信多了。所以我觉得我更擅长把握叙事方向，专注于自己的核心观点和采访目标，对吧？

I have a lot more confidence with the media now than I did when I was a younger athlete, So I think I'm much better at learning the narrative and really focusing on my own talking points and what I'm looking to get out of the interview, right?

是的，做采访确实需要技巧。

Yeah, the skill set to do an interview.

对，当你是个年轻运动员或者刚接触媒体时，很容易被吓到，把所有问题都当真，直接回答，以为一切都很直接，但你根本不知道这些回答会被怎么呈现出来。所以我觉得学会如何按自己的意愿讲述故事非常重要。

Yeah, when you're a younger athlete or new to media, I think it's really easy to just take everything it's intimidating you can just take everything at face value and answer the questions you know just assuming everything is just like very direct whereas you don't know how you don't know what's going come out on the other side of these things right so I think it's really important to learn how tell your story and the way you want it to be told.

本期节目由我的免费十天高蛋白饮食计划赞助。

This episode is brought to you by my free ten day protein packed sample meal plan.

由于耐力运动员每公斤体重需要1.5到2克蛋白质，这意味着一个150磅（约68公斤）的运动员每天需要大约120克蛋白质。

Since endurance athletes need anywhere from 1.5 to two grams of protein per kilogram body weight, That means a one hundred and fifty pound athlete, which is sixty eight kilos, would need around 120 grams of protein, give or take.

但一天120克蛋白质到底是多少呢？

But what does 120 grams of protein actually look like in a day?

这正是我制作这份免费十天蛋白质饮食计划的原因。

That's exactly why I put together a free ten day sample protein meal plan.

它展示了10种不同的方法，用真实的餐食、零食创意和灵活的选择来达成你的蛋白质目标，而且这些方法你确实能坚持下来。

It shows 10 different ways to hit your protein goals with real meals, snack ideas, and flexible options you can actually stick with.

只要访问alexlarsonnutrition.com/proteinmealplan，或者在

Just head to alexlarsonnutrition.com/proteinmealplan or grab that link in the

节目笔记里找到那个链接。

show notes.

我完全支持你切尔西，在没有媒体的情况下保持犀利。

I'm in full support of you Chelsea being spicy without that media.

全力支持。

Full support.

在你为比赛做准备的过程中，有没有什么是你希望媒体或人们更多问到的？

All the things that go into you preparing for your races, is there anything that you wish the media or people would ask more about?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得很多时候媒体问的都是同样的问题，翻来覆去，所以我感觉自己一直在重复说一样的话。

I think a lot of times at the media, it's just like the same questions over and over again so I feel like I'm constantly repeating myself.

我觉得自己简直就是这项运动里的‘妈妈代表’，所以经常被问到‘你是怎么做到兼顾一切的？’

Think I'm definitely like the token mom of my sport and so oftentimes the question is how do you do it all?

你是怎么平衡所有事情的？

How do you balance it all?

我做不到。

I don't.

这就是我的回答。

That's the response.

我完全不知道。

I have no idea.

对。

Right.

就像，如果是在大赛前，我会说，‘嗯，我已经一个月没见到孩子了。’

It's like, if it's before a big race, I'm like, Well, I haven't seen my kid in a month.

我不知道，有时候觉得这个问题有点老套了。

I don't know, I think sometimes that feels a little bit old.

我也觉得自己对自己的技艺非常细致、专业，甚至到了痴迷的程度，但我觉得这一点并没有得到足够的认可。

I also think that I'm incredibly meticulous and professional and obsessive about my craft and I don't know that I get enough credit for that.

很多时候，大家更关注的是我作为妈妈的身份，或者有时候会聚焦在我的失败和挫折上，这也许在某种程度上是合理的。

I think oftentimes it's more like the mom thing or I think sometimes there's a lot of focus on my failures or my setback which maybe is fair sometimes.

我觉得自己有一个很精彩的东山再起的故事。

I think I have a compelling comeback story.

而且，我也是这个领域里世界上最顶尖的人之一。

I'm also like one of the best in the world at what I do.

我觉得男性运动员可以更多地谈论他们的装备、训练和表现，而我却经常被问及个人生活。

I think like the men get to talk a lot more about their equipment and their training and their performance whereas I'm asked about my personal life a lot more.

我对装备一窍不通，所以真希望媒体别问我这个，因为我只能说，不知道，教练让我用什么轮胎、胎压多少，我就照做，别的什么都不懂。

I don't know anything about equipment so I really hope the media never asks me about that because I'm like, I don't know, got some tires my coach told me to get and the PSI they told me and I don't know anything.

不过我也在慢慢学。

I'm slowly learning though.

我有个好教练。

I have a good coach.