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如果你在比赛后半程总是很吃力，那我们就得确保你做好了功课，进行了正确的碳水补充。
If you've ever struggled in the back half of your races, let's make sure you've done your homework with a proper carb load.
我的免费碳水加载101指南详细介绍了比赛前几天如何补充能量，让你在起跑线上拥有充足的糖原储备、舒适的肠胃，以及确信自己已经做好了准备的信心。
My free carb loading 101 guide breaks down how to fuel in the days before your race so you can show up to the start line with full glycogen stores, a happy gut, and the confidence you've done the work.
不用猜测，不用无休止地搜索，也不用在最后一刻为意大利面而慌乱，这只是一份清晰实用的指南，专为耐力运动员打造。
No guessing, no endless googling, no last minute pasta panic, just a clear practical guide built specifically for endurance athletes.
你可以在节目说明中免费获取，或者前往Alex Larson Nutrition网站，斜杠freebies，今天就下载。
You can grab it for free in the show notes or head to Alex Larson Nutrition dot com slash freebies to download today.
我是Alex Larson，运动营养师，耐力运动员，在这里帮助你更聪明地补充能量，而不必限制自己或过度思考。
I'm Alex Larson, performance dietitian, endurance athlete, and here to help you fuel smarter without restriction or overthinking.
我们专注于真实的讨论和实用的能量补充策略，让你在忙碌的活跃生活中提升表现。
We're all about the real talk and realistic fueling strategies you can use to improve performance while juggling your busy active life.
这里是耐力播客。
This is the endurance podcast.
欢迎回到耐力饮食播客。
Back to the endurance eats podcast.
今天的嘉宾，她的工作正好处在心理状态对运动表现的影响，以及我们与身体和食物的关系，这两者的交汇点上。
Today's guest is someone whose work sits right at the intersection of the mental health side of performance and our relationship with our bodies and food.
博士。
Doctor.
瑞秋·戈德曼博士，大家叫她博士。
Rachel Goldman, known as Doctor.
瑞秋是全国知名的临床心理学家。
Rachel is a nationally recognized clinical psychologist.
她是纽约大学格罗斯曼医学院精神医学系的临床助理教授，也是新书《当生活发生意外：你需要的心态转变，来管理压力、建立自信、挣脱束缚》的作者。
She's the clinical assistant professor in the Department of Psychiatry at NYU Grossman School of Medicine and the author of the brand new book When Life Happens The Mindset Shift You Need to Manage Stress, Build Confidence and Break Free.
她是认知行为疗法领域的顶尖专家，专攻压力管理、身体形象、健康行为改变以及身心连接。
She is a leading expert in cognitive behavioral therapy and specializes in stress management, body image, health behavior change and the mind body connection.
她曾登上《时代》杂志、《纽约时报》、CNN和《今日美国》，上过《今日秀》，和奥普拉、瑞茜·威瑟斯彭同台，还被评选为百大心理健康影响者和顶级压力管理影响者。
She has been featured in time, the New York Times, CNN and USA Today appeared on the Today Show shared stages with Oprah and Reese Witherspoon and was named a top 100 mental health influencer and a top stress management influencer.
今天，我们把她的专业知识直接带给我们的社区，因为你们中的很多人，包括我自己，都在同时应对训练、营养和生活中的心理和情感方面。
Today we are bringing her expertise directly to our community because so many of you myself included are navigating the mental and emotional side of training nutrition and life all at once.
我们今天聊聊身体形象、比较心理，还有那种必须面面俱到的压力。
We're talking body image comparison and the pressure to do it all and do it.
好，那我们就开始吧。
Well, Let's get into it.
博士。
Doctor.
Rachel，欢迎来到我们的播客节目。
Rachel, welcome to the podcast.
你能来我真的特别荣幸。
I'm so honored that you're here.
而且你居然还见过奥普拉。
The fact that like you've met Oprah.
我昨晚还跟我老公说呢，我们正准备睡觉，我跟他说：‘我今天采访的人可是见过奥普拉的。’
I was telling my husband that last night, like, we're going to bed, I'm like, I'm interviewing someone that's met Oprah.
他当时就懵了，问：‘啥？’
And he's like, what?
我说，我知道。
I'm like, I know.
我觉得自己好酷，因为我跟奥普拉之间只隔了两个人。
I feel so cool that I'm like two people connected to Oprah.
不过你的履历让我印象非常深刻。
But I was very impressed by your bio.
我们知道你是一名临床心理学家。
And we know that you're a clinical psychologist.
你现在还是一位出版作家。
You're a published author now.
而且你也是我们中的一员，你是个跑者。
And also one of us, you're a runner.
你能跟我讲讲你的跑步经历吗？你是怎么开始的，现在跑步对你来说意味着什么？
Can you tell me a little bit about your running, how you got started and what that means to you in your life these days?
好的。
Yeah.
首先，我想说非常感谢你邀请我。
And first, I just want to say thank you so much for having me.
能来这里我超级兴奋。
I'm super excited to be here.
每次听到那些小事，比如你和奥普拉一起什么的，我就觉得好笑。
And it's funny whenever I hear those little things like, I know you were with Oprah or this.
我会想，等等，我有吗？
I'm like, wait, I was?
但没错，我想我确实有。
But yeah, I guess I was.
而且有趣的是，我后面就挂着梅尔·罗宾斯的照片。
And it's funny because I have the Mel Robbins picture back there.
我就是在她的节目上发现你的，你在那个播客里说的每句话我都喜欢。
And that's where I found you is when you were on her, I loved everything you said on that podcast.
我当时就想，哦，你得来跟我们的人聊聊。
And I was like, oh, you got to come talk to our people here.
嗯，我很喜欢。
Well, love it.
而且我很高兴听说你是个跑步爱好者，而且你的工作就是这个。
And I love hearing that you're a runner and that this is the type of work you do.
因为实际上在我的书里，我用了很多跑步的比喻。
Because actually in my book, I use a lot of running analogies.
对我的客户，不管他们是不是跑步的人，我都会用很多跑步的比喻，因为我觉得生活和我们对生活的看法以及跑步之间有很多共通之处。
With my clients, I use a lot of running analogies if they're runners or not, because I just think there's so much overlap in terms of life and the way that we look at life and running.
所以我的跑步故事是，我高中的时候，有个朋友说，嘿，你应该加入越野队。
So my running story is that when I was in high school, a friend was like, hey, you should join the cross country team.
我说，我为什么要那样做？
I'm like, why would I do that?
我不跑步。
I don't run.
而且我以前是跳舞的。
And I was a dancer.
不过我当时确实跳舞。
I danced though.
后来呢，我就想，好吧。
And then eventually, was like, alright.
行吧。
Sure.
那我就加入吧，管它呢。
I'll I'll join, and it'll be whatever it is.
但听起来是个不错的事，能参与进去，还能有个支持社群。
But that sounds like a cool thing to get involved in for support community.
说实话，我可能是最慢的那个。
And I legit was probably the slowest one.
我也无所谓，但确实是最慢的。
And I was fine with that, but I was the slowest one.
这也有它的意义，而且我很享受。
And it served a purpose, and I enjoyed it.
后来我上了大学，发现跑步其实挺省钱的。
And then I went off to college, and I found that running just became something that, to be honest, was inexpensive.
说实话，读研的时候我反而跑得更多，因为那时候连健身房都去不起。
That, you know, in grad school, I actually got more into running because I couldn't even afford a gym at the time.
我就想，我只需要一双好跑鞋和一条马路就够了。
And I was like, all I need are a pair of good running shoes and, like, the pavement.
有意思的是，读研的时候我几乎把整个研究生班的同学都拉去报名了半程马拉松。
It's funny because in graduate school, I got my entire grad like, most of my graduate school cohort to, like, sign up for a half marathon.
我们都说，虽然没时间正经锻炼，但需要释放压力。
And, like, we're all, well, we don't have time to really work out, but we need the stress release.
我们一边跑一边聊天，吐槽生活。
And we all chitchatted and vented about life while we were running.
就这样慢慢发展起来了。
And it just kind of evolved from there.
所以我说我跑过两个半全程马拉松。
So I've done, I say two and a half full marathons.
说两个半是因为我训练了第三次。
The half is because I trained for a third.
其实那是第二次，但因为飓风桑迪，比赛取消了。
It was actually the second one, but it never happened because hurricane Sandy happened.
所以马拉松取消了，但我还是跑了20英里。
So the marathon got canceled, but I did, like, a 20 mile run for it.
所以我完成了两个半全程马拉松，还有很多半程马拉松。
So I did two and a half full marathons, lots of half marathons.
然后我算是休息了一段时间。
And then I took a break, so to say.
不能说是有意休息，只是生活发生了变化。
I wouldn't say it was an intentional break, but life happened.
我生了两个孩子。
And I had two children.
两年前，我生了孩子后第一次跑半马，当时还在哺乳期。
And then I did my first half marathon post children two years ago, but I was still breastfeeding.
然后我就想，好吧，现在我得在没有那种额外压力的情况下再跑一次，不用在出发前泵奶，也不用在跑步时想着得赶紧跑回家。
And then I was like, okay, now I have to do this again without that added stressor of like pumping the second before I leave and being on the run and being like, gotta run home.
然后我大概三周前或四周前又跑了一次，反正挺近的。
Then I just did another one maybe three weeks ago, maybe four weeks ago, but pretty recent.
不过是的，对我来说，跑步是我应对压力工具箱里的一个工具。
But yeah, so running to me is a tool that's in my coping toolbox.
当我谈到压力管理时，跑步绝对是我工具箱里的一个工具。
When I talk about that with stress management is absolutely a tool in my toolbox.
对我来说，这也是一种自我关爱。
It is also an act of self care for me.
我的孩子们知道妈妈跑步是因为跑步感觉很好。
My children know that mommy runs because it feels good.
这样我回到家后就能成为更好的自己。
And that then I'm able to come home and be a better version of me.
不管怎样，跑步一直是我生活中的常态，即使有了孩子也一样，比如我们有跑步婴儿车，我的孩子们知道我们会全家一起跑步，你知道，跑步一直是我生活中的一部分。
It's been a constant regardless, like even with having kids, like I had running strollers, my kids know, like we go on runs as families, we, you know, like it has been a constant in my life.
其实我可能真得感谢高中时那个说服我去参加越野跑的女孩，因为如果不是她，我可能永远不会真正去跑步。
I actually probably should thank the girl in high school who convinced me to do cross country because I don't know if I would ever really run if it wasn't for her.
我喜欢在户外跑步。
I love to run outdoors.
我觉得户外跑好处多得多。
I think there's so much more benefit.
跑步本身就有好处。
Running in general, there's benefit.
从心理健康的角度来看，仅仅待在户外就有额外的好处。
From a mental health perspective, there's added benefit to just being outdoors.
先不说跑步，光是待在户外，活动身体。
Forget about running, just being outdoors, moving your body.
对我来说，那是我唯一不看手机的时候，除了接待客户或录播客的时候。
To me, it is the only time that my phone is away and I don't look at it, other than when I'm clients or doing podcasts.
但这对我来说真的是一种逃避，而且我确实是在跑步或洗澡的时候思考得最清楚。
But it really is like an escape for me, and I do kind of my best thinking actually during runs or in the shower.
就是这两个时候。
Those are the two times.
对，我希望，你知道，这其实是我那本书《当生活发生》的书名，部分是因为跑步。
But, yeah, I hope, you know, it's actually the name of my book when life happens partly because of running.
但我希望我这一辈子都能跑步，哪怕只是跑两英里、三英里。
But I hope my entire life, I will be able to run even if it's for two miles, three miles.
但我希望它永远是我工具箱里的一个工具，也是我日常的一部分。
But my hope is that it'll always be a tool in my toolbox and part of my routine.
我也发现，跑步的时候，如果有一个好的跑友，比如一个妈妈朋友，可以一起跑，然后倾诉一下。
I find too with running if I have like a good running friend, like a mom friend that I could just run with and just like vent.
那百分之百是我缓解压力的头号工具。
That's 100% probably my number one top like stress relieving tool.
而且我最好的跑友之一是个学校儿童心理学家。
And one of my best running buddies is like school child psychologist.
所以我们经常聊很多关于养育孩子的事情。
And so we talk a lot about like raising kids.
但我觉得，也正是这个让我对人类心理学和行为改变产生了更广泛的兴趣。
But also, that's I think what got me into just more a general interest in human psychology and behavior change.
而且我觉得，尤其是耐力运动员这个群体，他们往往非常有干劲，通常成就很高，更偏向A型性格，但他们还要兼顾训练、事业、家庭，甚至更多。
And I think especially with like the endurance athlete population, they tend to be incredibly driven, often very high achieving, a more type A typically, but they're also navigating their training, their careers, their family, and often more.
从你的角度来看，我猜你在工作中经常接触跑步者和运动员，你观察这个群体时，看到了哪些模式？
From your perspective, and I would assume that you've worked with like some runners and athletes in your work quite often, what patterns do you see when you look at this type of group?
大多数人，不是全部，往往思维有点僵化，有点像非黑即白。
Most, not all, tend to have a little bit more rigid thinking, kind of like all or nothing thinking.
比如，如果我没有一个小时，我就干脆不去跑步了，但我真的相信，做点总比什么都不做强。
Like, if I don't have an hour, I'm not going to go on a run at all, which I truly believe something is better than nothing.
我其实跟我的客户说过，有些日子我只跑十分钟。
And I've actually told my clients this before that there are days that I go on ten minute runs.
我只能挤出那么多时间，但能呼吸新鲜空气，出门活动身体，这就够了。
And all I can squeeze in and it's getting fresh air, it's getting out, it's moving my body and it's enough.
但那种僵化的非黑即白的思维，肯定是最大的问题，如果我们想想我们的想法如何影响情绪和行为，那是我对运动员普遍强调的最重要的一点，而且我认为这也会延伸到他们生活的其他方面。
But that rigid all or nothing thinking for sure, I would say is the biggest, if we think of the thoughts and how our thoughts impact our emotions and our behaviors, that's the biggest thing I really say with athletes in general, will then translate, I think, to other areas of their life.
是的，营养肯定是一个方面。
Yes, I think nutrition for sure.
嗯，我也想到了饮食方面。
Well, was thinking that in terms of eating too.
前几天我正好跟人聊到这个，说你要为某件事训练，或者即使你什么都不训练——这其实跟我书的标题有关——你都得训练你的身体。
I was just having this conversation with somebody the other day that when you want to train for something, have to, or even if you're not training for anything, which we'll get to with the title of my book, actually, you have to train your body.
你知道，我训练马拉松的时候，我得在身体、情绪和营养上都做好准备。
I you know, when I was say training for a marathon, I had to train physically, emotionally, and nutritionally.
这真的很重要。
And and it's really important.
我永远忘不了我上次跑半程马拉松。
I mean, I I'll never forget my last half marathon.
我需要跑十英里。
I needed to do a 10 mile run.
我的跑友，她没在训练，但跟我一起跑，那天真的特别冷。
And my running friend who was not training, but was running with me was like, was really, really cold out.
她说，咱们就在跑步机上跑吧。
She's like, let's just run on the treadmill.
我说，那也行，但我可不想在跑步机上跑十英里。
And I was like, I could do that, but I'm not gonna run 10 miles on the treadmill.
她问，为什么不行？
And she's like, why not?
我说，因为我知道我的身体能跑十英里，但我需要重新训练的是，什么时候该补充能量胶，什么时候该做这个那个动作。
I said, because I know my body can run 10 miles, but what I need to re retrain is to identify when I should take my goo, when I should do this, and that action.
比如对我来说，在跑步机上我会把水瓶放在旁边，但在户外跑我不会带着水瓶。
Like for me personally, I'm gonna have my water bottle on the treadmill with me, but I'm not gonna run outside with my water bottle.
我会把水放在腰包里。
I'll have my little water in my pouch type of thing.
但对我来说，那并不能真正测试我的身体会如何反应。
But to me, that wasn't gonna translate to testing how my body was gonna react.
而这同样重要。
And that's just as important.
所以对我来说，重点不是跑完10英里，而是在户外跑步，知道前一天晚上吃了什么，跑步前吃了什么，跑步中吃什么对胃没问题，这非常重要。
So for me, was like, it's not about getting the 10 miles in, it's about running outside, knowing what I eat the night before and knowing what I'm eating right before and knowing what I'm eating on the run is gonna be okay for my stomach, and that is so important.
所以，是的，这种全有或全无的思维，我觉得很常见，而且有时会妨碍一些运动员，尤其是在完成运动量或调整方面。
So, yeah, that all or nothing thinking though, I think, is very common and can, you know, get in the way sometimes for some athletes, especially when it comes to getting their activity in and or even shifting.
比如你去跑步，我有孩子，生活中总有意外。
Like when you go on your run, like I have kids, life happens.
也许周六跑10英里的计划行不通了，因为有人生病了，能够灵活调整，灵活安排饮食等等，这真的很重要，但这种思维会让人卡住，这也是我写这本书的原因，因为很多人陷入这种全有或全无的思维，觉得自己被困住了，然后给他们工具来摆脱困境，继续前进。
Maybe that plan to go on a 10 mile run Saturday is not gonna work anymore because somebody is ill and being able to be flexible with that, be flexible with their food and all of that is is really important, but it can keep people stuck, which is really why I wrote this book is because a lot of people actually get in that all or nothing thinking and feel like they're really stuck and then kind of giving them the tools to get unstuck and move forward.
有一个概念叫压力叠加。
There's the concept of stress stacking.
我确实可以证明自己经历过这种情况。
And I can certainly attest to like experiencing this.
我知道其他运动员也有同感，工作压力、家庭压力、训练压力、知道要好好吃饭的压力，所有这些压力层层叠加。
And I know other athletes can as well, the work stress, the family stress, the training stress, stress of knowing that you need to eat well, like all of these layers of stress stacked up together.
这对我们的心理和身体有什么影响？
What does that do to us mentally and physically?
你刚才列的那些，真的很多，你知道吗，你能在生理上感受到那种压力。所以很多人忘了两件事，第一就是身心连接是真实存在的。
Everything you just list, like, like, it's a lot, you know, like you can feel that physiologically, you know, so what a lot of people forget, there's two things is that the mind body connection is real.
当我们感到压力时，压力就是一种威胁。
And when we feel stress, so stress is a threat.
有威胁，可能是感知到的威胁，也可能是真实的威胁。
There's a threat, it could be a perceived threat or a real threat.
关键是，它也可能是感知到的威胁。
The key is it could also be the perceived threat.
我们的身体和大脑会做它需要做的事情来生存。
Our body and brain does what it needs to do to survive.
然后它会进入战斗或逃跑模式，也就是压力反应。
And it goes to the fight or flight mode, which is the stress response.
在生理上，那一刻有很多事情在发生。
Physiologically, there's a lot going on in that moment.
如果我们一直停留在那种状态，慢性压力就会产生。
And if we stay in that moment, that's when chronic stress happens.
这时候病情可能会加重，甚至引发其他问题。
That's when illnesses can be exacerbated, can lead to other things.
这是身体自然的反应。
Naturally, our body goes to that.
正常情况下，当压力源消失后，大约二十分钟左右，身体就会恢复到平衡状态。
And naturally our body should return to homeostasis twenty ish minutes when the stress threat is gone.
但如果这种威胁只是心理上的感知，它可能并没有真正消失，我们就一直处在高压状态里。
But if that is a perceived threat, it may not necessarily be gone and then we stay in that high stress state.
你刚才说的那些，光是听着我都觉得生理上有压力了。
So what you just described, I even felt physiologically stressed just hearing it.
就像我说的，这叫‘压力阶梯’。
Like, it's like, I call it the stress ladder.
对吧？
Right?
它就是这样一点点累积起来的。
It just it just builds up.
到了晚上，你就会觉得，天哪。
By the end of the day, you're like, oh my god.
你会无缘无故地对孩子大喊大叫，因为他们压力太大，感觉特别沉重和压抑。
You're like yelling at your child for no particular reason because they're so stressed and it's so heavy and overwhelming.
所以这确实很不容易。
So it is a lot.
生活中有些时候，我们得想想，我现在能不能从盘子里拿掉一些东西，来平衡生活中其他方面正在发生的沉重压力？
And there's times in life that we have to kind of think, can I take off my plate right now to compensate for the heaviness of the other aspects of my life that's going on?
举个例子，我刚出版了新书，一年前我推迟了刚跑完的半程马拉松，当时觉得在书出版前跑步会太累。
An example, like I just launched my book and a year ago when I deferred the half marathon that I just did, was like, that's gonna be a lot to be running right before book launch.
我记得当时想，我还是报名吧。
And I remember being like, I'll sign up.
如果我现在不推迟，我就会输掉比赛，可以这么说。
I'm gonna lose the race if I don't defer right now, so to say.
我当时想，我会报名，然后尽力去跑。
I was like, I'll sign up and I'll do the best I can.
我就是这么做的。
And that's what I did.
我接受自己出现时可能不是最佳成绩，在这个人生阶段我已经不在乎了。
I was okay showing up knowing it was not going to be my best time, which I'm over that in this phase of my life right now.
能完成半程马拉松，不用停下来，不用泵奶或喂奶，就已经足够了。
I'm just finishing the half marathon without having to stop or without having to pump or breastfeed or whatever is enough.
但那个想法是，我能从盘子里拿走什么？
But that idea of what can I take off my plate?
对我来说，知道自己只是去享受、去跑那天的压力，反而减轻了我的压力。
For me, the pressure of knowing that I'm just going to show up and have fun and run that day took that pressure off for me.
每个人的目标不同，但想想你的目标是什么，然后说，好的，我怎样才能实现它？
Not everybody's goals are different, but to think about what your goals are and be like, okay, how can I make that happen?
可行吗？
Is it feasible?
考虑到我手头所有的事情，这现实吗？
Is it realistic given everything else I have going on?
如果答案是否定的，那并不意味着不要比赛。
If the answer is no, it doesn't mean don't race.
也不意味着不要跑步。
It doesn't mean don't run.
而是意味着我能做些什么不同的事情来让它适合我？
It means what can I do differently to make it work for me?
对有些人来说，可能是这样：你知道吗，在接下来的几个月里，我需要在家雇一些额外的帮手。
And for some people that may be, you know what, for the next few months, I need to hire some additional help at home.
或者也许我需要拒绝一些项目，以便有时间出去进行那些长跑。
Or maybe I need to say no to some projects in order to have some time to go out for those long runs.
但还是要回过头来想一想，我怎样才能让这件事行得通？
But kind of going back and kind of thinking, how can I make this work?
但这就是成长型思维。
But that's a growth mindset.
这不是固定型思维。
That's not a fixed mindset.
固定型思维就是那种要么全有要么全无，比如‘我做不到’。
A fixed mindset is kind of that all or nothing like I can't do it.
不，你能做到的。
No, you can do it.
但事情得有所调整。
But things have to shift.
你在书里提到，压力本身不是问题。
And you mentioned that in the book where like the stress isn't the problem.
问题在于我们如何应对，对吧？
It's how we respond to it, right?
所以当你手头有很多事情时，就会想，好吧，我能把什么分派出去？
So it's like when you have all that on your plate, it's like, okay, what can I delegate?
我能重新调整我的目标，设定更现实的期望，而不是陷入那种要么全有要么全无的思维吗？
Can I reframe my goals and like set those more realistic expectations and not be in that kind of all or nothing thing?
或者就像，如果我不能做到最好，那我干脆就不做了。
Or it's like, well, if I can't do it at the best possible level, then I'm not going to do it at all.
就是说，好吧，做这件事还是有乐趣的。
It's like, okay, well, there's still joy in doing it.
还是有好处。
There's still benefit.
我的比赛真的很有趣。
I mean, my race was so much fun.
那是纽约市半程马拉松。
It was the New York City half.
我第一次跑过布鲁克林大桥。
First time I ran over the Brooklyn Bridge.
我以前跑过这个比赛，但那是几年前了，不过赛道稍微改了一下。
I've done this race, but years ago, but they changed the course slightly.
但你会跑过时代广场。
But you run through Times Square.
真的特别好玩。
Like, it is so fun.
我当时就在想，我干嘛要跑这个啊？
To me, I was like, why am I doing this?
哦，我就是图个乐呵。
Oh, I'm doing it because it's fun.
我是跟朋友一起跑的。
I'm running with my friend.
说实话，现在回过头看，我觉得最明智的决定就是没把这场比赛取消。
And the training was, honestly, looking back, the best thing I did, I think, was to not cancel this race.
这确保我在特别忙碌的赛季里，专门划出了一段属于自己的时间。
It made sure that I carved out this time for me during a really busy season.
不过我觉得在其他时候，我本来完全可以随便跑个二十分钟就算了。
But I think at other times, I could have easily been like, I'll go for twenty minutes, it's fine.
那样也完全能达到锻炼的目的。
And that would serve a purpose.
但这次真的让我能彻底从书本前抽身出来，花一个小时去跑长距离，甚至两个小时，给自己留出真正需要的空间。
But this really allowed me to like, pull myself away from the book for an hour to do my long runs or two hours and give myself the space that I really needed.
所以它对不同的人、在不同的时间可以起到不同的作用。
So it can serve different purposes for different people at different times.
我有一位自行车教练。
I have a cycling coach.
她叫塞雷娜。
Her name is Serena.
她人非常好。
She's really lovely.
过去一年半，我一直在骑碎石路自行车。
I've been doing all this gravel cycling the past year, year and a half.
她问我，嘿，我们来聊聊比赛前怎么减压吧。
And she was like asking me like, hey, let's let's talk about ways that you can kind of de stress before your race.
因为有时候，当我终于离开家去参加露营活动或比赛时，我的身体会释放压力，通常会哭很多。
Because sometimes like when I finally get away from home to go to like an event to camp or a race like I my body kind of like has this release that's usually a lot of like tears.
然后我想，好吧，我不能把我的孩子送走。
And so and I thought about I'm like, okay, well, I can't give my way my kids.
那具体该怎么做呢？
And so like, what does this look like?
我得换个思路，把这当成一场持久战。
And I had to kind of reframe my thought of like, this is the long game for me.
这可不是什么短期目标。
Like this isn't me just like having this short term goal.
我骑车并没有设定什么截止日期。
Like I don't have a deadline for my goals as a cyclist.
再看看那些四五十岁的女性。
And I look at women in their 40s and their 50s.
她们站在领奖台上，表现真的非常出色。
And they are like up there on the podium and they are really crushing it.
所以我想，我不必非得现在就这样做。
So I like, I don't have to like do this now.
我可以利用多年来积累的训练和骑行技巧来为自己打好基础。
Can set myself up with like this cumulative, like years of training and building my skills as a cyclist.
这样，当我的孩子们更独立，不再想每时每刻都黏着我时，我就能把那些时间用来训练，争取站上领奖台。
So that when I do reach a phase where my kids are more independent and they don't want to spend every waking second with me, that I can, like dedicate that time to getting myself on the podium and doing that.
所以对我来说，最近这算是一个顿悟，我告诉自己，没关系，如果我现在不能以最佳状态出现，因为我要同时应付太多事情。
So for me, just recently, that's been kind of a revelation where I'm like, okay, like, it's okay if I don't show up at my very best because I'm juggling so many other things right now.
我很高兴你提到这一点，因为你说得太对了。
I love that you brought that up because you're so right.
关键就在于重新调整心态。
It's about reframing that.
这又回到了成长型思维，就是“不是今天”或者“还没到时候”。
And that's the growth mindset again, which is the not today or the not yet.
我现在不需要做到那一步。
I don't need to do that yet.
我今天不需要达到那个水平，但我保持开放的态度，并为自己做好准备，如果以后我想，我就能做到。
I don't need to be there today, but I'm leaving the door open and setting myself up that if I want to later, I can.
这就是我写这本书书名的原因。
That's why I wrote the title of this book.
所以几年前，当我为马拉松和半程马拉松训练时，我每个周末都跑大约六英里。
So years ago, when I was training for the marathon and the half marathon, kept running, say, six ish miles every weekend.
算是比较长的距离，但不是特别长，不过里程数挺不错的。
Like a long ish, not super long, but a good mileage.
我记得朋友们问：'哦，你在为什么训练？'
And I remember my friends were like, Oh, what are you training for?
我还以为你现在没在训练什么呢。
I didn't think you were training for anything right now.
我说：'我在为生活训练。'
And I said, I'm training for life.
他们问：'你这话是什么意思？'
And they're like, what do you mean by that?
其实，'为生活训练'最初是这本书的暂定书名。
Training for life was actually the working title of this book initially.
比如，我的出书合同就是签给一本叫《为生活训练》的书。
Like, my my book deal was for a book called Training for Life.
然后我朋友就问，你说为生活而训练是什么意思？
Then my friends were like, what do you what do you mean you're training for life?
我说，我是在为生活随时可能发生的事做准备。
And I said, I'm training for when life happens.
我的想法是，我想在跑步方面保持明智。
And my idea was I wanna be running wise.
我想有基础跑量，这样如果我决定在三周内跑半程马拉松，我就想，好吧，三到四周完全可行，从我的六到八英里，你知道，十、十二英里等等，你就能达到。
I wanted to have base mileage that if I decided to run a half marathon in three weeks cycle, I'm like, alright, like I could three, four weeks ish, like totally realistic over my six to an eight to a, you know, whatever, ten, twelve, etcetera, you're there.
实际上，我的想法是，我想在身体和情感上保持最佳状态，尽我所能控制好自己，以应对任何突发情况。
Really what the idea was was that I wanted to be in the best physical emotional shape that I could be in terms of what's in my control for whatever's thrown my way.
我觉得怀孕就是一个很好的例子，因为当我怀第一个孩子的时候，我记得对我非常了解的医生说，我应该改变什么？
And I think pregnancy is a great example of that because when I got pregnant with my first, I remember saying to my doctor who knew me very well, but what should I change?
我应该改变什么？
What should I change?
我需要做什么？
What do I need to do?
现在我怀孕了。
Now I'm pregnant.
我需要做什么？
What do I need to do?
她说，什么都不用做。
And she was like, nothing.
她说，你已经在做了。
She's like, you're doing it.
她说，你很活跃。
She's like, you're active.
你在跑步。
You're running.
你吃得健康。
You're eating healthy.
真的没有什么需要改变的。
There's literally nothing you have to change.
这本书的理念是，我不希望你，听众，读者，在生活发生变化时，不得不彻底改变你的生活。
And the idea of this book is that that I don't want you, the listener, the reader, to have to completely overhaul your life when life happens.
只是关于做一些微调。
Just it's about making tweaks.
关于更有意识一点。
It's about being a little more intentional.
所以，如果我们现在就把自己调整到最佳状态，无论是身体上还是情感上，在生活发生变化时，我们能控制的部分，那么我们就会准备得更好一点。
So if we're setting ourselves up now to be in the best that we wanna be, physical, emotional shape of what's in our control when life happens, then we're gonna be just kind of like a little bit better prepared.
对吧？
Right?
就像，你骑自行车时说的那样。
Like, that's pretty much what you're saying with the cycling.
比如，如果有一天你的目标是站上领奖台，你就在实现目标的路上。
Like, if there's a day that your goal is to be on that podium, you're on the path to accomplish that.
也许你决定不追求了，比如你不想了。
Maybe you decide it's not in it, like you don't want to.
也许你决定你想要，但你已经在这条路上了，因为你已经在做这些能帮助你达到目标的事情。
Maybe you decide you do want to, but you're on that path because you're already doing these things that's going to help you get there.
我能告诉你我有多喜欢你书的标题吗？因为我作为营养师经常用“当生活发生”这个说法，我给你一点背景吧？
Can I tell you that I love the title of your book because I use the term when life happens so often as a dietitian and I'll like give you a little context here?
所以我通常会说类似这样的话：当生活发生的时候，你能做的一到两件简单又现实的事情是什么，来好好照顾自己的营养？
So I usually say something along the lines of like when life happens, what would be one to two like easy realistic things that you can do with your nutrition really well to take care of yourself?
我喜欢这个。
I love it.
我经常这么说。
I say that all the time.
喜欢。
Love it.
我在这个节目里说过。
I've said it on this is
这是注定的。
meant to be.
我知道。
I know.
所以感觉真的很巧，这就是你书的标题。
So it feels so serendipitous that this is the title of your book.
我当时就想，天哪。
I'm like, Oh my God.
但这个想法来自跑步，我当时就想，我是在为生活训练。
But it came from running and this idea that I just was like, I'm training for life.
对我来说，跑这么多里程感觉很好。
Like, feels good to me to run this kind of mileage.
而且我喜欢能够说，当然。
And I like to be able to be like, sure.
我想几周后和你一起跑马拉松。
I wanna have marathon with you in a few weeks.
为什么不呢？
Why not?
而不是像，哦，我觉得，你知道，我得重新开始。
As opposed to like, oh, I feel like, you know, I gotta start over.
不。
No.
我们从现在所在的地方开始。
We start from where we are.
所以我喜欢这个。
So I love that.
而且我确实也经常用“生活总会发生”这句话，这也是为什么多年前我在医院工作时，有一个客户让我确信了这句话，他说“生活总会发生”，因为，嗯，事情总会发生。
And I do also use life happens all the time, which is why actually years ago when I worked at the hospital, had a client that made me assure that said life happens because, Well, happens.
这周你没做到。
It didn't work out for you this week.
不代表你失败了。
It doesn't mean you failed.
我在设定目标时用它，比如客户回来说，我没做我们讨论过的事情。
I use it in a goal setting way of like clients coming back and being, I didn't do what we talked about doing.
我就说，没关系。
And I'm like, that's okay.
生活就是这样。
Life happened.
只是说明这周对你来说太难了。
And it just meant it was too challenging for you this week.
那我们现在就看看下周的计划。
So now let's look ahead for next week.
想想什么是现实的，知道生活总会有意外。
Let's think about what's realistic knowing that life's gonna happen.
我今天早上刚对一个客户用过这句话，她最近结婚了。
I just used it this morning with a client who recently got married.
她打算把房子租出去，或者卖掉她丈夫的房子，然后他们搬了进去。
She is putting her house up to rent or selling her husband's place and they moved in.
他们刚一起搬进了一个家。
They just moved into like a home together.
所以他们就像两个家庭在合并。
So they're like converging families.
我就跟她说，姐妹，你事情真多。
And I'm like, girl, you got a lot going on.
她因为过去几个月没减掉一些体重而感到失望。
And she's disappointed that she hasn't lost some weight in the past couple months.
你看，你有这么多事情要处理。
Like, you have so much going on.
你能保持体重就已经很了不起了，因为很多人压力这么大，可能反而会增重。
Fact that you've maintained your weight is a huge win because so many people would be so stressed that they probably would be seeing weight gain during this.
我说，所以你真的得把这当成一个胜利，等这段风雨期过去，我们再重新调整，开始取得更多身体成分上的进展。
I was like, so you really do have to consider this a win for yourself when this stormy season passes, then we can reset and start making more body composition progress.
我喜欢你这么说，因为我经常跟我的客户说，在压力大的时候，你的目标其实是保持体重。
I love that you said that because something that I often say with my clients management also, is that during times of stress, your goal is actually to maintain weight.
我总是告诉我的客户，
I always tell my clients,
对，没错。
it is Right.
不是。
Not
目标是保持体重。
Goal is to maintain weight.
度假的目标是保持体重，因为保持体重本身就很难。
Vacation goal is to maintain weight because it is so hard to maintain weight as it is.
再加上那些压力，你还想减肥，那就更难了。
Let's throw all those stressors in and now you're trying to lose weight on top of it.
那太不现实了。
That's just so unrealistic.
所以我很喜欢你这么说，因为我也正想这么说。
So I love that you said that because I would have said the exact same thing.
你和我真是心有灵犀。
You and I are like the same mind.
所以这就是为什么我很高兴能和你聊天。
And so that's why I'm so excited that you and I are chatting.
不过我们来谈谈身体形象吧，因为这是我觉得运动员们会默默挣扎的问题，因为在耐力运动员的环境中，有压力要变得更瘦、更轻、更快。
Let's talk about body image though because this is something that athletes I would say like quietly struggle with because there is this pressure in more of an endurance athlete setting to be leaner, lighter, faster.
这可能会非常耗费心神。
It can be very consuming.
社交媒体让比较几乎无法避免。
Social media has made comparison almost unavoidable.
运动员们不断刷到别人的身材、比赛成绩和精彩片段。
Athletes are scrolling through seeing bodies, race results, highlight reels constantly.
这对我们有什么影响？我们又该如何保护自己免受其害？
What is that doing to us and how can we protect ourselves from it?
其实我上周末刚就这个话题做了个演讲。
Actually just gave a talk on this this weekend.
我想先提醒大家，作为人类，我们都会比较。
And I like to remind people first that as humans, we compare.
这很正常。
It's natural.
我们多多少少都会这样。
We all do it to some degree.
所以这是首先要记住的重要一点。
So that's the first thing that's important to remember.
我们之所以这样，是因为我们的大脑天生就是为了生存。
And the reason we do it is because our brains are wired for survival.
这其实是一种生存策略，通过观察别人在做什么，来判断自己是否跟得上，或者是否需要做出改变。
It's actually a survival tactic to look at what everybody else is doing in order to figure out, like, if you're kinda keeping up or, like, should I don't like the word shit, but should we be doing something different?
我该怎么生存？
How should I be surviving?
很久很久以前，我们的祖先在森林里狩猎和采集时，如果没有合适的工具来获取食物，就会错过机会。
Years, years, years ago, our ancestors, ancestors, ancestors, when they were in the woods hunting and gathering, if you didn't have the right tool to be in the woods to be getting your food, you're gonna miss out.
所以你会看看别人在做什么。
So you're gonna look to see what everybody else is doing.
对吧？
Right?
所以我喜欢这样想。
So I like to think of it that way.
所以首先，比较是完全正常的，但重要的是我们如何处理比较。
So first, completely normal that we compare, but it's what we do with the comparison that matters.
所以我倾向于说，行为之后的想法比行为本身更重要。
So I tend to say it's the thought that follows the behavior that's more important than the behavior itself.
意思是
Meaning
再说一遍。
Say that again.
我知道这句话很重要。
I know it's a big one.
我总是重复它。
I always repeat it.
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行为之后的想法比行为本身更重要。
It's the thought that follows the behavior that's more important than the behavior itself.
我会举几个例子，然后再回到比较这个话题。
And I'm gonna give a few examples and then come back to the comparison.
一个很好的例子，跟食物有关。
A great example, food related.
我经常跟人说，重点不是那块饼干。
I always tell people, well, it's not about the cookie.
重点不是冰淇淋。
It's not about the ice.
你吃了那块饼干。
You ate the cookie.
那又怎样？
Who cares?
你享受了吗？
Did you enjoy it?
那之后的想法是什么？
What was the thought that follows?
你有没有为此自责？
Were you beating yourself up over it?
你有没有为此感到内疚？
Were you feeling guilty about it?
你有没有一直抓着羞耻感不放？
Were you holding on to shame?
然后那会引发一种感觉，进而导致另一个行为。
And then that leads to a feeling that leads to another behavior.
或者我吃了块饼干。
Or I ate a cookie.
我享受了它。
I enjoyed it.
然后我就继续前行了。
And I move on.
问题在于想法。
It's the thought.
跟饼干没关系。
It wasn't about the cookie.
那现在说到比较，你打算怎么处理这种比较？
So now with comparison, what are you gonna do with that comparison?
你会不会看着别人都在做什么，然后开始跟自己说，天哪，我到底怎么了？
Are you gonna look at what everybody else is doing and start telling yourself, my god, what's wrong with me?
为什么我就做不到？
Why can't I do this?
我失败了。
I failed.
他们都能做到。
They're doing it.
我到底哪里有问题？
What's wrong with me?
我做不到。
I'm not doing it.
然后这种恶性循环就开始了。
And this downward spiral starts.
或者你会觉得，那挺酷的。
Or are you gonna be like, that's kind of cool.
我受到启发了。
I'm inspired.
我想试试那个。
I'm gonna try that.
对吧？
Right?
感觉完全不一样，因为想法不同。
Totally different feel because it's a different thought.
我书的基本前提是认知行为疗法，也就是CBT，这是一种疗法，但基本观点是我们的思想、情绪和行为是相互关联的。
The basic premise of my book is in cognitive behavior therapy, which is CBT, which is that our thoughts, emotions, it's a type of therapy, but the basic idea is that our thoughts, emotions and behaviors are linked.
那我们该怎么看待这种比较呢？
So what are we going to do with that comparison?
如果你已经对自己的身材感到自卑，压力很大，情绪低落或者很累，那你现在看社交媒体，就会带着压力滤镜去比较，而不是用真实的眼光。
If you're already having a low body image die, if you're already having a lot of stress, if you're already feeling really emotional or tired, you are going to be now looking on social media comparing through a stress lens, not the real lens.
所以这时候不适合刷社交媒体，因为你会开始把这些内化，觉得是自己有问题。
So that's not the time to be going on social media and scrolling because you're gonna start internalizing some of that and think something's wrong with you.
所以我喜欢这样想：我们先停下来，自我检查一下。
So I like to think of it as let's pause and check-in with ourselves.
我现在感觉怎么样？
How do I feel right now?
我上社交媒体，比如，是为了什么？
And what is the purpose of me going on, say, social media?
是为了找灵感吗？
Is it that I want to get inspiration?
还是为了分散注意力？
Is it that I need a distraction?
是不是因为我感觉特别糟糕，想让自己好受一点？
Is it that I'm feeling really crummy and I want to feel better?
那就不是刷社交媒体的时候。
Not the time to be going on social media.
但我们必须足够向内看，其实运动员是了解自己身体的。
But we have to be turning inward enough, which athletes actually do know their bodies.
他们可能不是一直倾听，但可能比普通人更常倾听。
They're probably not listening all the time, although probably more times than the average person.
因为如果我们有某种感觉，我暂时把自己放在跑者的角度，而不只是心理学家。
Because if we are feeling something, I'm gonna put myself in the runner category for a moment instead of just the psychologist.
如果我累了，我今天可能不去跑步，因为我会想，这不聪明。
If I'm exhausted, I might not go on a run today because I'm like, this is not smart.
或者我会说，你知道吗，我要降低强度，因为我累了。
Or I'm gonna be like, you know what, I'm gonna take it down a notch because I'm exhausted.
或者，哇，我真的需要补水。
Or wow, I really need to hydrate.
我真的需要补充能量。
I really need a fuel.
我觉得普通人不像运动员那样了解自己的身体。
The average person I don't think is as in tune to their bodies as athletes are.
但我们必须花点时间真正向内看。
But we have to take that moment and really turn inward.
我现在感觉怎么样？
How am I feeling right now?
然后倾听，因为如果我们不小心，我们都可能陷入那种比较的陷阱。
And then listen, because we can all get kind of stuck in that comparison track if we're not careful.
我喜欢用这样的说法，比如，让我们保持好奇。
I like to use the term like, let's get curious.
对。
Yes.
比如当人们说，哦，我就像，我今天下午好饿。
Of like when people are like, oh, I'm like, I got so hungry this afternoon.
我就想，好吧，别慌。
I was like, okay, well, don't panic.
咱们就好奇一下。
Like, let's just get curious.
比如，你为什么这么饿？
Like, why did you get so hungry?
当情况不同，或者你那天对自己的身材感到不安时。
When different, it's unusual or like you're feeling upset about how your body's looking that day.
好吧，让我们好奇一下。
Like, okay, let's get curious.
发生了什么？
What's going on?
你是不是特别累？
Are you extra tired?
我
I'm
对。
right.
我就是想，好吧，咱们来想想原因是什么。
It's literally, I'm like, all right, let's think of the why.
到底怎么回事？
What's going on?
完全是一回事。
It's the exact same thing.
对。
Yeah.
因为通常背后都有原因，只是我们没停下来好好想清楚。
Because usually there's a reason, but we're not pausing long enough to really understand.
再说个我常有的情况吧，身边不少人都知道这一点。
Again, a common thing for me, a lot of people in my life know this.
可能不是那种人生大事，怎么说呢。
Maybe not bigger life, so to say.
说到运动补给，我试过很多品牌，很多我都挺喜欢的。
When it comes to sports fuel, I've tried a lot of brands and I enjoy many of them.
但我一直反复回购的就是Scratch Labs。
But the one I keep reaching for again and again is Scratch Labs.
我们Alex Larson营养师团队，特别迷他们家的超高碳水混合饮料。
The Alex Larson Nutrition Dietitian team, we are obsessed with their super high carb mix.
对于长时间训练来说，这真是革命性的改变。
It's a total game changer for the long training sessions.
就我个人而言，我超爱他们的树莓能量软糖。
And personally, their raspberry energy chews, I love them.
酸甜比例恰到好处。
They are the perfect blend of tart and sweet.
我在碎石路骑行前和骑行中都会吃很多。
I eat a lot of them before and during my gravel rides.
你可以去scratchlabs.com试试，用代码endurance eats 20享受八折优惠，因为聪明的补给也应该好吃。
You can try scratch yourself with 20% off at scratchlabs.com using the code endurance eats 20 because fueling smart should also taste good.
比如，如果我头疼，我丈夫就会说，吃泰诺吧。
For instance, if I get a headache, my husband will be like, take Tylenol.
我说，不，我不吃泰诺。
I'm like, no, I'm not taking Tylenol.
我可能是脱水了。
I am probably dehydrated.
我会先喝水。
I'll drink first.
或者我说，不对。
Or I'm like, nope.
我昨晚没睡好。
I didn't sleep well last night.
这才是原因。
That's why.
并不是我不相信药物或者不相信泰诺。
It's not that I don't believe in medicine or I don't believe in Tylenol.
只是通常都有原因。
It's just that usually there's a reason.
然后我就想，对，这就是我头疼的原因。
And I'm like, yeah, that's why I have a headache.
你说的就是这个意思。
And that's what you're saying.
就像，让我们好奇一下。
Like, let's get curious.
为什么我今天更饿？
Why am I hungrier today?
哦，对了。
Oh, right.
也许你昨天多跑了步。
Maybe you ran extra yesterday.
也许你昨天没吃好。
Maybe you didn't eat as well yesterday.
也许你一直在到处跑，根本没坐下来好好吃顿饭。
Maybe you were running from place to place and you didn't actually sit down and eat a meal.
通常背后都有原因的。
There tends to be a reason.
但我觉得很多人太忙了，就一直不停地忙活。
But I think many people are just too busy that they go, go, go, go on with their life.
他们直接忽略这些信号，接着过日子去了。
They ignore it and they just move on.
但后来它总会找上门来。
But then it kind of catches up to you.
对，我觉得比较难处理的一点是，你想发挥最佳状态，但体型确实会起到一定作用，这两者之间有点矛盾。
Yeah, something that I find tricky is there's this tension between wanting to perform at your best and body composition does obviously play somewhat of a role in it.
确实是这样。
It does.
然后还要真正接纳自己现在的样子。
And then also truly accepting your body as it is.
你有没有和运动员合作过，同时帮助他们处理这两方面的问题？
Have you worked with athletes where you're kind of helping them navigate both of those at the same time?
是的。
Yeah.
所以无论你是不是运动员，我都会说同样的话。
So if you're an athlete or not, I would kind of say the same thing.
我觉得在生活中，这就是事实。
That I think in life, it's just a fact.
当你身体不那么重的时候，你在生活中会轻松很多，对吧？
You have less to carry when you're navigating life, when you are not in such of a large body, right?
只是走路，人们减掉几磅后就能感觉到不同。
Just walking around, like people feel the difference when they lose a few pounds.
所以我觉得，这就是为什么我其实是在对所有人说这些。
So I think, so that's why I'm kind of using this for anybody really.
但说到运动员，这就很有挑战性了。
But it's challenging when it comes to athletes.
因为首先，有期望和压力，比如，哦，你能以那样的体型做到吗？
Because first of all, there's the expectation, the pressure, like, Oh, are you able to do that at that size?
或者那种羞耻感，对外貌关注的污名。
Or kind of this shame, the stigma of the appearance focus.
说实话，这就是我为什么这么喜欢看马拉松。
To be honest, this is why I love watching marathon so much.
今年我带儿子去看了，我惊讶于他有多喜欢。
I brought my son out to watch it this year and I was shocked how much he loved it.
我不得不把他拉走。
Like I had to pull him away.
我说，我们得回家了。
And I'm like, we have to go home.
我们在外面待了太久了。
We've been outside for so long.
但我喜欢看马拉松，因为它是一个很好的例子
But I love watching marathons because it is such a great example
那里有各种各样的体型。
of There's so much body diversity.
这是我最喜欢的部分。
It's my favorite part.
很多马拉松、骑行，都有各种体型，这太棒了。
Has lot marathons, cycling, there's body diversity and it's amazing.
各种体型、各种身材的人都在参与。
Everybody shape, size is doing it.
所以我真的相信，如果你想做，无论你是谁，不管你的体型如何，不管你是谁，多大年纪。
And so I truly believe if you want to do it, whoever you are, it doesn't matter what body shape, size you have, it doesn't matter who you are, what age you are.
只要你想做，你就能做到。
You can do it if you want to do it.
你只需要做好计划，当然还要咨询你的医生之类的。
You just have to plan properly and obviously talk to your medical provider, things like that.
但我就是喜欢这一点。
But I love it about that.
我觉得这点很重要，值得大家记住。
I And think that's an important reminder for people.
然后学会向内看，问问自己：我什么时候状态最好？
And then to be able to turn inward and be like, Okay, when do I perform my best?
再说一遍，这里大概有两种极端情况。
And again, there's kind of two extremes.
人们表现不佳的情况并不只出现在运动员身上。
People don't perform their best, not just in athletes.
再说一遍，就是专注力、注意力集中。
Again, concentration, focus.
我们可以拿工作中的人举例。
We could be talking about somebody at work.
当你脑子里一直想着别的事情，比如老惦记着吃，或者生活被其他琐事填满，又或者感到疲惫、状态不佳时，你就无法发挥出最佳水平。
You don't perform your best when you are constantly thinking, say about food, or your life is consumed with other things, or you're tired, or you didn't feel yourself.
这可能是由于营养不良或体重过轻导致的，也可能是因为体型较大带来的影响。
That could be undernourished and underweight, or that could be somebody in a larger body.
这两种情况都可能出现。
In both instances, you could experience that.
不管你的体型和身材如何，如果没有给身体提供它真正需要的营养、燃料和睡眠，你也无法发挥出最佳状态。
And at any size, shape, if you are not nourishing your body with what it needs, the fuel, the sleep, all those things, you're also not going to perform your best.
所以我跟客户沟通时，虽然很多人是因为体重问题来找我的，但我更喜欢换个角度来谈。
So I actually like to talk to my clients, even though a lot of them come to me for weight related issues, I like to reframe it.
我不建议盯着某个具体的数字看，而是会说，咱们想想那个让你健康又快乐的理想体重。
And instead of a specific number, I'm like, Let's think about your healthy, happy weight.
如果你告诉我你感觉良好，注意力集中，睡眠也不错，饮食也合理，那体重秤上的数字其实没那么重要。
Like, could care less what the number on the scale is if you tell me you're feeling good, and you're concentrating, your sleep is good, and you're eating properly.
对我来说，这才是健康、快乐的状态。
To me, this is a healthy, happy place for you.
所以我觉得我们得放下对数字的执念，多关注自己现在的感受。
So I think we have to get away from the number and focus more on how do I feel right now?
我的表现怎么样？
How am I performing?
然后去定义这种表现。
And then define that performance.
这不仅仅是看你跑得多快。
It's not just about how fast you are running.
而是你在以那个速度跑步时感觉如何？
It's how do you feel when you're running at that speed?
你是不是营养不足？
Are you undernourished?
你能集中注意力吗？
Are you able to concentrate?
你能健康地到达终点吗？
Are you able to get to the finish line healthy?
我有时候发现，有些运动员会来找我，说需要减掉十磅，因为他们觉得轻十磅自己感觉会更好。
I sometimes find with athletes, they'll come to me and they're like, need to lose 10 pounds because I know that I'll feel better if I'm 10 pounds lighter.
然后我就说，好吧。
And then I'm like, Okay.
然后我们让他们吃得好一点，他们感觉也好一点，但他们还没意识到，让你感觉好的不是体重秤上的数字。
And then we get them eating better and they feel better, but they're not yet down to I losing feel it wasn't the number on the scale that made you feel better.
其实不是的，是饮食、补充能量和训练后的恢复。
It's like, no, it's the eating part and the fueling and the recovery with your training.
这些才是让你感觉好的部分。
That's the part that helps you feel better.
当然我们可以处理减重的问题，但我发现人们常常把感觉和体重秤上的数字挂钩。
Certainly we can work on the weight loss, but I find that people often associate how they feel with a number on the scale.
我，我有点想反驳这一点。
I, I like to push back on that a little bit.
我完全同意。
I absolutely agree.
我开玩笑说，我希望人们能站上体重秤，然后它显示健康，或者显示强壮，或者显示它
I joke that I wish people could step on a scale and it says healthy, or it says strong or it says It
那会很棒。
can be amazing.
对。
Right.
因为说真的，我敢肯定你也遇到过这种情况。
Because really, I mean, I'm sure you've experienced this.
我经常提醒我的客户这一点。
I like to remind my clients about it.
也许你心情很好。
Maybe you're in a great mood.
然后你站上体重秤，它显示了一个你不想要的数字。
And then you step on the scale and it gives you a number that you don't want.
然后砰的一下，你突然就心情糟透了。
And boom, all of a sudden you're in the worst mood ever.
真的，体重秤就决定了你一天的心情。
Really, the scale just dictated your day and your mood.
这太扯了，对吧？
That is such BS, right?
我们确实会这么想。
We think about it.
但这是事实。
But it's a fact.
所以我就想，好吧，我们怎么才能把控制权拿回来呢？
So I'm like, All right, how can we take back that control?
体重秤，别把控制权交给它。
The scale, let's not give the control to the scale.
其实，我在医院工作过，我的书里有一整章是关于身体形象的。
So actually, I worked in the hospital, I have this in So I have an entire chapter on body image in my book.
我在书里也说过这个。
And I said this in the book also.
我在医院工作的时候，是在减肥手术体重管理诊所，所有客户都必须称体重。
When I worked at the hospital, I worked in a bariatric surgery weight management clinic, and all of my clients had to get weighed.
每次就诊我都得报告体重。
I had to report a weight at every visit.
我讨厌这样。
I hated it.
我强烈反对过，但这是必须做的。
And I pushed back so much, but it had to be done.
所以我的客户知道，你来这里，不像在其他诊所那样直接站上秤。
So my clients know, you come in and you don't just step on the scale like you do in all the other offices maybe.
我会说，等等。
I'm like, Pause.
你现在感觉怎么样？
How are you feeling right now?
我会说，在站上秤之前，我们先聊聊你的感受。
I'm like, Let's talk about how you're feeling before you step on that scale.
而且很多时候我会说，转过身去。
And oftentimes I'd be like, Turn around.
连看都不要看。
Don't even look at it.
我得记录一下，但这不重要。
I have to report it, but it doesn't matter.
因为真的不重要。
Because it really doesn't matter.
重要的是你身体的感觉。
What matters is how you feel on your body.
这是我在身体形象方面觉得很多人忽略的一点。
That's the part that I think about body image that a lot of people miss.
身体形象不仅仅是外表。
Body image isn't just how you look.
它还包括你在身体里的感受和活动方式。
It's how you feel and move around in your body.
这非常重要。
That is so important.
所以我同意。
So I agree.
我也喜欢和客户一起工作，重新定义他们看待自己的方式。
I like to also work with clients and reframing how they see themselves.
再说，我书里的那一章，我记得标题大概是关于重新定义身体形象，用更友善的眼光看待自己。
Again, the chapter in my book is called actually, I think, something about reframing your body image and seeing yourself through a kinder lens.
但这跟数字无关。
But it's not about the number.
重要的是我们在自己身体里活动和生活时的感受。
It's about how we feel moving around and living in the body that we're living.
运动员也往往有这种比较心理，甚至非运动员对食物也有复杂的关系。
Athletes also tend to have a comp and even non athletes have complicated relationships with food.
他们知道应该吃东西。
They know that they should eat.
他们的选择中夹杂着很多情绪。
There's a lot of emotion wrapped up in their choices.
有很多恐惧，尤其是吃更多和摄入更多碳水时。
There's a lot of fear, especially with eating more and eating more carbs.
你觉得这背后的心理是怎样的？
How do you think about the psychology behind that?
对运动员来说确实很有挑战，因为他们的饮食绝对会影响表现。
So it's challenging for athletes for sure, because again, what they eat absolutely is going to impact their performance.
但话又说回来，今天早上谁不是这样呢？
But again, I could say that about anybody this morning.
如果你没吃早餐，现在工作表现可能也不太好。
If you didn't eat breakfast, you're probably not performing so well at work right now.
事实如此。
Fact.
或者你可能会说，我就喝杯咖啡当早餐了。
Or if you're like, I'm just going to eat, drink coffee, and that's my breakfast.
抱歉，剧透
Sorry, spoiler
警告。
alert.
或者对那些正在听这期播客、现在正在锻炼的人来说。
Or to those that are working out right now listening to this podcast episode.
是的，你需要补充能量。
Yes, you need to refuel.
同样的事情。
Same thing.
吃那些能量软糖或者能量胶。
Taking those chews or gel.
对。
Right.
这确实很有挑战性。
It can be really challenging.
而且，我倾向于认为我们必须重新调整我们看待事物的方式。
And again, I like to think of it that we have to reframe the way we think about things.
我觉得特别是对运动员来说，我们应该把食物看作燃料。
I think especially for athletes, we should be thinking about food as fuel.
是的，食物还有很多其他的意义。
Yes, food is also a lot of other things.
但对运动员来说，回想我第一次训练马拉松的时候，我就想，跑步前我得吃这个。
But for athletes, and I'm thinking back to when I trained for my first marathon, I was like, I have to eat this before a run.
跑步后我也得吃这个。
I have to eat this after a run.
不是因为我死板，但你猜怎么着？
Not because I was rigid in any way, but guess what?
这影响了我跑步和补充能量的方式。
It impacted how I ran and fueled.
我知道那是我的身体需要的。
I knew that that's what my body needed.
当我吃了那个，我的身体状态最好。
And it functioned its best when I ate that.
花时间才弄清楚在这种情况下什么有效。
It took time to figure out what worked in that situation.
所以我觉得对运动员来说，这一点特别重要，但生活中也需要一点灵活性。
So I think for athletes in particular, it is so important, but there also needs to be a little flexibility in life.
出去庆祝朋友生日，也许你会决定吃块蛋糕，这完全没问题。
It's okay that you're going to go out and celebrate a friend's birthday, and maybe you decide to have a piece of cake.
不过话说回来，行为背后的想法比行为本身更重要。
Again, it's the thought that follows the behavior that's more important than the behavior itself, though.
所以这确实挺有挑战性的。
So it's challenging.
前两天我在车上突然冒出个想法。
I just had this thought the other day I was in the car.
我最好的思考状态其实是在车里，因为那时候我能享受独处的时光。
This is where I do my best thinking is if I actually like have alone time in the car.
要是我有车的话，我大概也会同意你的看法。
If I had a car, I would probably agree with you.
确实是这样。
Yeah.
但我住在美国。
But I live in USA.
我们这里没有车。
We don't have guys.
这里是乡下，问题就在这儿。
Rural problems here.
不得不
Have to
开车，这让我很烦，因为我没有时间开车，但我想，好吧，有时候我得吃饭，因为食物就是燃料，这是我的身体需要的，这样才能获得能量和营养，去表现和达成目标。
drive which annoys me because I like don't have time to drive but I was like, okay, sometimes I have to eat because food is fuel and I this is what my body needs in order for me to get the energy and nutrients that I need to perform and reach my goals.
所以有时候我吃东西是为了安慰自己，我会想，你知道吗？
And so sometimes I'm eating for like comfort where I'm like, you know what?
我就是想吃这个，因为我真的很享受，很喜欢，但我不会吃一整包什么的。
I just like might have this because I really just enjoy it and I love it And but I'm not gonna eat like the whole package or anything.
我只吃一点，用来安慰自己。
I'm just gonna have some of it and like have it for comfort.
有时候我能做出一顿饭，既超级好吃，我又喜欢，同时也能满足我作为运动员的需求。
And sometimes I can put together a meal that both is something like super delicious and I love, but also is meeting my needs as an athlete too.
有时候这真是两全其美。
And sometimes it's the both of best of both worlds.
所以你得学会把这两方面分开看待，并且接受这一切。
So it's like you have to be able to kind of compartmentalize that too and be okay with all of it.
对，我常说食物是有用途的。
So yeah, I mean, often say that food serves a purpose.
很多时候是为了生存和补充能量。
And a lot of the times it's to survive and fuel.
但也有其他时候，我们只是需要它来寻求安慰，或者因为它好吃。
And there's also other times that we just need it for comfort or because it tastes good.
或者是因为文化。
Or it's cultural.
对，社交方面的。
Right, social.
没错。
Exactly.
这没关系。
And that's okay.
再说，我经常提到情绪化进食。
Again, I talk about emotional eating a lot.
如果你听过Mel Robbins的播客，我在那里讲了很多。
If you heard the Mel Robbins podcast, I spoke a lot about it then.
那时候它是有作用的。
It's serving a purpose at that time.
问题是要问问自己，它起的是什么作用？
The question is asking yourselves, what purpose is it serving?
你能接受吗？
And are you okay with that?
再说，情绪化进食没问题，但要清楚自己在做什么，以及它是否没有造成困扰。
Again, it's fine to emotionally eat, but knowing that what you're doing and if it's not causing distress.
我还听你提到过另一个差距，就是知道和做到之间的差距。
Another gap that I've heard you talk about is the gap between the knowing and the doing.
这是我和我的团队在幕后经常讨论的问题，因为我们觉得，好吧，他们知道应该做什么，但真正做起来却很困难。
This is something that my team and I have discussed frequently behind the scenes because we're like, okay, they know what they should be doing, but they're really struggling with actually doing it.
很多人认为他们在营养方面没有看到成功的原因是因为他们知道得不够多。
And so many people think that the reason why they're not seeing success with their nutrition is because they don't know enough.
所以他们听各种播客，读各种书，钻进各种牛角尖，结果越来越困惑。
So they're like listening to all the podcasts and they're doing all this reading and they're going down these rabbit holes and getting more and more confused.
但我不同意。
And I disagree.
我想你也会认同我的想法，因为这确实涉及到从知道到做到的转变。
And I think you would also follow my thought process on this because it really has to do with shifting from the knowing to the doing.
你能多谈谈你作为心理学家的经验，以及你是如何帮助人们跨越这个差距的吗？
Can you talk more about your experience as a psychologist and how you approach working through this gap?
好的。
Yeah.
所以大多数人都知道他们应该做什么。
So most people know what they should be doing.
我永远不会忘记多年前一位客户对我说的话，那是一位与肥胖作斗争的人，他说：‘你觉得我不知道我应该少吃多动吗？’
I'll never forget a client said to me years ago, again, with a person struggling with obesity, feel like, you don't think I know that I should be eating less and moving more?
我当然知道。
Of course I know that.
或者他们会说：‘我听过每一个播客，上过每一节营养课，什么都听了。’
Or they'll be like, I've heard every podcast, every nutrition class, everything.
但我们大脑里有些东西让我们困在原地。
But there's things in our brain that keeps us stuck where we are.
有些东西让我们停滞不前。
There's things that keep us where we are.
其实，这也是我写这本书的原因。
Again, this is why I wrote the book, actually.
很多时候，问题出在我们的想法上。
And a lot of the times, it's our thoughts.
很多时候，我们觉得除非自己完全准备好了，否则就不会去做。
A lot of the times, we feel like until we are fully ready, we're not going to do it.
我们一直在等待完美的时机、合适的时机，比如开始节食的合适时机、做出改变的合适时机、去约会的合适时机，等等。
We're waiting for the perfect time, the right time, the right time to start the diet, the right time to make this change, the right time to go on the date, all these things.
在认知行为疗法中，我们的想法、情绪和行为是相互关联的，我们可以从想法入手，也可以从行为入手，其他的就会跟着改变。
And now in CBT, again, our thoughts, emotions, and behaviors are linked, we can intervene at the thought, or we can intervene at the behavior, and the rest kind of follow.
对有些人来说，是转变想法。
For some people, it's shifting the thought.
调整想法，改变心态，然后对自己说：好吧，你知道吗？
It's tweaking the thought, shifting the mindset, and being like, Okay, you know what?
我还没准备好，但我愿意试试。
I'm not ready yet, and I'm going to try.
对吧？
Right?
就是那样调整一下。
Kind of shifting that.
有时候呢，你会想，你知道吗？
Other times, it's like, you know what?
我得别在脑子里瞎琢磨了，直接去做就行。
I just got to get out of my head and just do it.
所以我在书里也提到了这一点，正在听书的运动员朋友们应该会很有共鸣。那个耐克的‘Just Do It’广告语，其实说白了就是行为激活的伪装版。
So I I tried this in the book, you would appreciate this and the athletes listening that the Just Do It, the Nike campaign, I say in the book, is actually behavioral activation in disguise.
所以在心理学里，激活的意思就是直接行动。
So in psychology, activation is just doing it.
只要采取行动，你的感觉和想法就会不一样。
Just take the action and you're going to feel differently and think differently.
所以有时候我们得直接去做。
So sometimes we have to just do it.
我们得别想太多，跳出脑袋里的纠结，心里想着：算了，就这样吧。
We have to forget about, get out of our head and just feel like, You know what?
我就先做五分钟试试。
I'm just going to do it for five minutes.
或者像，好吧，你想，比如我有个信念，觉得必须彻底改变我的饮食。
Or like, Okay, you want to This belief that I have to overhaul my whole diet, for instance.
那与其彻底改变整个饮食，这真的让人不知所措、感到害怕，那我该从哪里开始呢？
Well, instead of overhauling the whole diet, which is really, really overwhelming and scary, where do I start?
我只会拖延。
I'm just going to procrastinate.
我永远都做不完。
I'm never going to get it done.
不如就想着今天加一种蔬菜。
Let's just think about adding one vegetable today.
完全可行，容易上手，看起来够简单。
Totally doable, approachable, seems easy enough.
然后会发生什么呢，这个人就去做了。
Then what happens is the person does it.
然后我记得他们会回到我的办公室，说：‘我觉得我没改变什么，但我感觉好多了。’
And then I remember they would come back to my office and be like, I feel like I didn't change anything, but I feel so much better.
我就会跟他们说，咱们来聊聊到底有什么变化，具体发生了什么事。
I'm like, let's talk about what did change, what did happen.
他们就会说，嗯，我多喝了一点水，或者多吃了一份蔬菜，又或者早睡十分钟。
And they're like, well, I drank a little bit more water or I added a vegetable or I went to bed ten minutes earlier.
这样就能让人产生一种成就感。
And that gives you a sense of accomplishment.
而这种成就感正是建立自信的开始。
And what that does is starts building confidence.
然后你再多做一点，接着再做一点。
And then you do a little more, then you do a little more.
但如果你一下子就想去做那件最大的事，心想我得把所有这些都改掉。
But if you just jump in and do the biggest thing of like, Oh, I have to change all these things.
我知道我得这样做那样做，早点睡觉，还要做这做那。
I know I have to do this and do that and go to bed early and do this and do that.
那根本不可能实现。
It's never going to happen.
所以关键是要摆脱那种非黑即白的思维，把目标拆解成今天最容易、最简单的一步，然后直接去做。
So it's really getting out of that all or nothing thinking again, breaking it down to the most easy, simplest one step that you could do today, and then just do it.
对，不完美的行动也比什么都不做强。
Yeah, the imperfect action is better than inaction.
没错。
Absolutely.
而且那些看似微不足道的小事，长期坚持下来，累积起来会产生相当大的影响。
And the little like doing the small little things that are easy will add up over long term and make a pretty big difference.
没错。
Absolutely.
我是说，大多数人之所以停滞不前，是因为他们不知道从何下手。
I mean, most people stay stuck where they are because they don't know where to begin.
我们总得先迈出第一步。
And we just have to start somewhere.
对，我有时候会跟我的运动员说，嘿，咱们先做几个小调整。
Yeah, I sometimes tell my athletes, I'm like, hey, we're going to make these couple little changes.
我们就去练习它们。
And we're just going to practice them.
我不是说他们必须每天都要做得完美，我只是想让他们试试看，就像试穿西装或裙子那样。
Like, I'm not like telling them they have to like nail it every single day, but I'm like, I just want you to like try it on kind of like, you know, you try on a suit or a dress.
如果尺寸不合适，我们就改一改，或者换一条裙子试试，你懂的。
I'm like, if it's not the right size, we'll tailor it or we'll try in a different dress, you know, like,
我喜欢这个说法。
I love that.
我用的术语不同，但意思差不多。
I use different but similar terminology.
我们想法真的很相似，有时候我会说，就这么说吧，也许这样。
Again, we have such similar overlapping beliefs because sometimes I'll even be like, I'm just going to say, maybe this.
如果你这周想着去做，如果真的做了，那太好了。
If you think about doing it this week, if it actually happens, amazing.
如果没做成，那也没关系。
And if it doesn't happen, that's also okay.
但我们在讨论这件事。
But we're talking about it.
这就像是在播种，也许你之后会决定去做。
It's planting the seed and maybe you'll decide to do it.
如果行不通，我们就调整一下，我的意思是，如果不合适，我们只是稍微改动一下。
And if it doesn't work, you're tailoring, is my, If it didn't work, we're just going to tweak it.
没关系的。
It's okay.
没起作用。
It didn't work.
这周对你来说太难了。
It was too challenging for you this week.
咱们调整一下，下周换个方式试试。
Let's tweak it and figure it out differently for next week.
好的。
Yeah.
咱们先简单聊聊受伤的事。
Let's just talk real quick about injuries.
所以当生活出现变故，训练计划被打乱，或者你受了伤、比赛……
So when life happens and training goes sideways or you get injured or a race
变得没那么有挑战性了。
isn't as so challenging.
变得没那么具挑战性了。
So challenging.
比如，运动员该怎么应对挫折，而不让自己陷入崩溃呢？
Like how can an athlete kind of work through managing a setback without spiraling?
深呼吸。因为这对运动员来说真的很难。
Taking a deep breath because it is so challenging for athletes.
我们经历过那种情况。
We've been there.
我受过伤。
Like, I've had injuries.
比如，我受过髂胫束的伤。
Like, I've had IT band injuries.
你也有过
You have
真的很难。
like It's so hard.
我从父母家出来，扭伤了脚踝，还骨折了，你懂我的意思吗？
Stepped out of my parents' house and rolled my ankle and broke You a know what mean?
就是，意外总会发生。
Like, Stuff happens.
对。
Yeah.
有意思的是，不过那是另一个故事了。
And it's funny because, well, that's another story.
对，但我想说的是，这真的很难，因为——这也是我跟我客户常说的——很多运动员把自己定义成他们的运动项目。
Yeah, but what I was going to say was it's so challenging because, and this is actually what I work with with my clients, is that so many of athletes define themselves as their sport.
所以当你不能做的时候，很多时候，突然之间，他们会想，我是谁？
So when you can't do it, a lot of times, all of a sudden, they're like, Who am I?
如果我不能去训练、跑步或者做这个做那个，我就什么都不是了。
I'm nothing if I can't show up to practice and run or do this or do that.
所以这真的很难。
So it's so hard.
我现在其实在和一个客户合作，帮她处理她自己的事情。
I'm actually working now with a client who's working with her on her own stuff.
但我们聊到她的孩子，她儿子受伤了，他是个运动员。
But we talk about her children and her son is injured, and he's an athlete.
所以我试着帮她一些工具，去帮助她的儿子。
And so I'm trying to like help her give her some tools to help her son.
而且，这真的很有挑战性，因为那个原因。
And, And it's so challenging because of that.
就像，如果我不能做这个，我是谁？
It's like, who am I if I can't do this?
对吧？
Right?
或者这是他们唯一的减压方式。
Or it's their only tool for stress relief.
他们会觉得，这好像是我缓解工作压力的唯一途径了。
And they're like, is the only thing that relieves my stress from work.
我就跟他说，对啊，你
I'm like, yeah, you
工具箱里还需要更多的工具。
need more tools in that toolbox.
这也会带来挑战。
And it also becomes challenging.
我常听到运动员有这样的担忧，就是害怕体重增加。他们会想，既然身体动不了，但还得补充能量，于是就开始限制饮食，结果在受伤期间这就成了一条滑坡路。
Hear this a lot with athletes is that fear of then weight gain, because they're like, well, I can't move my body and I still need to fuel, and then they become restrictive with their eating, and then that becomes a slippery slope when they're injured.
并不是说
It's not that
这种恐惧感太强烈了。
fear is so intense.
对，就是，就是一种恐慌。
Yeah, just it's just it's a panic.
天哪，当我听到朋友、同事这么说的时候——因为我想到一个朋友，她也会这样。
Oh, my gosh, when I hear from friends, from colleagues, because there's a friend I'm thinking of in particular that does this too.
这周我不能锻炼了。
Well, I can't work out this week.
我想我也不能吃那么多了。
I guess I can't eat as much.
我就想，天哪，不行。
And I'm like, Oh my gosh, no.
你仍然需要照顾好自己的身体，也许不需要那么多，如果你之前为了运动需要更多热量或不同类型的能量补充的话。
You still have to feel your body and maybe not as much if you were compensating and needed more calories for or different types of fuel for your sport.
但这确实很困难。
But it's challenging.
而且我觉得这时候其实特别重要，要跟治疗师合作，帮助重新定义你是谁，提醒你自己是谁。
And I think this is when it's really important actually to be working with a therapist to help redefine who you are, to help remind yourself of who you are.
我告诉我的客户关于她儿子的事情是，他不仅是球员，还是队友。
And what I told my client about her son was, not only is he this player, but he's also a team mate.
他是团队的一部分。
He's part of the team.
所以我说，他需要出现在训练场上。
So I was like, he needs to show up to practice.
他需要加油鼓劲。
He needs to cheer on.
即使他坐在替补席上，他也需要为团队加油。
Even if he's sitting on the bench, he needs to be cheering on his team.
他仍然是团队的一员。
He is still part of the team.
我还说，实际上，如果他在家里，想着大家都在外面做运动，每个人都在比赛，而我在家，他可能更难记住自己是谁，但他仍然可以出现，仍然可以训练。
And I said, actually, it's going be harder for him to remember who he is, if he's at home, thinking, everybody's out there doing their sport, everyone's playing, here I am at home, you could still show up, You can still train.
比如说脚踝受伤了。
Say it's an ankle injury.
你可以跟你的教练或理疗师聊聊。
You can talk to your trainer, talk to a physical therapist.
你仍然可以锻炼身体的其他部位。
You could still train other parts of your body.
也许你可以做坐姿举重。
Maybe you're doing seated weights.
或者做其他训练。
You're doing other things.
要再次摆脱那种要么全有要么全无的心态。
Gotta again get out of that all or nothing.
并不是说你什么都做不了。
It's not that you can't do anything.
所以这真的又回到了心态问题，而且承认这很糟糕。
So it's really going back to the mindset with so much of this and acknowledging that it sucks.
我觉得这一点非常重要。
And I think that's really important.
再说，我书里开头部分就提到，生活可能很艰难，但有了正确的工具，就不必那么艰难。
Again, part of my book, think the very beginning is life can be tough, and it doesn't have to be quite as tough with the right tools.
但承认这件事很糟糕、很烦人，这一点也很重要。
But if that acknowledgment of this is sucky, and this sucks is also important.
不要忽视这些情绪。
Don't ignore those emotions.
不要忽视正在发生的事情。
Don't ignore what's going on.
但事情并不止于此。
But it doesn't end there.
可以承认这很糟糕。
It can be this sucks.
然后想想我能做些什么呢？
And what can I do about it?
我能控制的是什么？
What's in my control?
很多人第一反应就是问，为什么这种事会发生在自己身上？
A lot of people jump to the why did this happen to me?
不管是受伤了、压力大，还是其他任何情况。
If it's an injury, if it's a stress, or if it's anything.
我更倾向于换个角度想：与其纠结为什么是我，不如想想接下来该怎么做。
And I like to instead think of it as let's shift that instead of why did this happen to me?
事情已经发生了，我能做些什么来应对呢？
This happened and what can I do about it?
哪些事情是我能掌控的？
What's in my control?
这样就能重新拿回主动权。
That takes back the control.
这其实能减轻焦虑和那种不知所措的感觉，因为很多时候我们之所以感到焦虑和压力山大，就是因为觉得一切都不受自己控制。
That actually decreases anxiety and overwhelming feelings because oftentimes we get anxious and overwhelmed when we feel like it's all out of our control.
但这样更有力量，可以想：我能做些什么呢？
But that's more empowering to be like, What can I do about it?
让我行动起来。
Let me take action.
所以对于因为脚踝受伤而不能跑步的运动员，也许你可以做一些力量训练，或者做点别的。
So for the athlete who can't run because they injure their ankle, again, maybe you do some weight training, maybe you do something else.
提醒自己这只是暂时的。
And remind yourself it's temporary.
这也很重要。
That's important too.
不会永远这样。
It's not forever.
对。
Yeah.
有时候就像，哦，也许我可以趁这个机会稍微休息一下，好好利用这段时间。
And sometimes it's like, oh, maybe I get to have a little mental break here and take advantage of that.
天哪。
My gosh.
对。
Yeah.
让我休息一下。
Let me rest a little.
让我，你知道的。
Let me, you know.
我要去读一本书，还要做一些因为训练太多而没能做的事情。
I'm going to read a book and I'm going to do things that I haven't been able to because I've been training so much.
对，没错。
Right, exactly.
说到读书，我在Audible上有你的书。
So speaking of reading a book, I have your book on Audible.
我已经开始听了。
I've started it so far.
我特别期待能把它读完。
I'm very excited to finish it.
你能再多分享一点关于这本书的内容吗？比如它主要讲的是什么？对我来说，如果我打算发布内容、写Substack文章或者做播客，我希望确保能提供切实有用的反馈和建议。
Can you just share a little bit more about the book itself in terms of like what it refers to and like for me, I'm all about like, okay, if I'm going to put out content, if I'm going to write a substack, if I'm going to do a podcast, I want to make sure I'm providing like tangible like feedback and advice.
因为再说一次，知道该做什么是一回事。
Because again, it's one thing to know what to do.
你知道的，了解身体形象之类的话题是另一回事。
You know, it's one thing to read about body image and stuff.
你能多讲讲读者能从《当生活发生》这本书里获得哪些具体的建议吗？
Can you talk more about some of the tangible advice that people will get from reading what life or when life happens?
对，我也这么想。
Yeah, so I'm right there with you.
我就是想帮人们做出改变。
I want to help people make change.
最好的办法就是提供实用的工具和小技巧，确保这些内容既现实可行，又能真正落地执行。
And the best way to do that is providing the tools, the tips, and making sure that it's actually something that's realistic and actionable, and that's something that you can do.
所以就像我在书的引言里说的，这本书不是用积极心态包装出来的毒鸡汤，我很感激这一点。
So as I say in the introduction of the book, this is not toxic positivity disguised with a I appreciate that.
是的。
Yes.
我还想说，我真的很喜欢我写的引言。
I also have in there that I actually love my introduction.
写起来特别有趣，我本来以为编辑会把它批得体无完肤，但真的很有意思。
It was so fun to write and I thought my editor was gonna rip it apart, but it was so fun.
太五月了。
It's so May.
但在引言里我写了这本书不是什么，我说，它不是那种用漂亮盒子装着、系着蝴蝶结的毒鸡汤。
But in it I have what this book is not, I'm like, It's not toxic positivity wrapped in a cute box with a bow on it.
我还说了，它也不是一张你应该做什么的清单，因为你自己知道该做什么，我不会告诉你该做什么。
And I also said it's also not a laundry list of things that you should do because you know what you should do, And I'm not going to tell you what you should do.
相反，我会给你提供为什么这么做的证据。
Instead, I'm going to provide you with the evidence of the why.
因为我也相信，除非人们理解了为什么，否则他们不会去做。
Because I also believe that unless somebody understands the why, they're not going to do it.
比如如果我告诉你
Like if I tell you
我觉得理解为什么让人感觉特别轻松。
I feel like understanding the why is so freeing.
明白了为什么，我就觉得，哦，然后我就感觉好多了。
Understand why I'm like, oh, and then I feel better about it.
我也是。
Same.
如果有人对我说，嘿，我觉得我不喜欢用这个词，用“放下”这个词吧。
And if somebody said to me, hey, I think I don't like the word use use the word shed.
嘿，我建议你这么做。
Hey, I recommend you do this.
这就是为什么我会觉得，哦，那听起来真的很好。
And this is why I'm like, oh, that actually sounds really good.
对，有道理。
Yeah, that makes sense.
我会开始感觉好起来的。
I'm going start feeling better.
天哪，是的，我就要这么做。
Oh my gosh, yes, I'm going to do that.
所以我喜欢先讲清楚原因。
So I like to present the why.
而且实际上，每一章都有好几个练习。
And actually, every chapter has multiple exercises in it.
而且每一章结尾都会安排一个正念时刻，用来反思或者把刚学到的付诸实践，因为我觉得这很重要。
And even every chapter ends with taking a mindful moment to reflect and or to put what we just learned into action, because I think it's so important.
我希望人们在听的时候，如果你做笔记的话。
My hope is that people while you're listening to it, so if you take notes.
但我希望人们能——
But my hope is that people are-
是的。
I do.
我会暂停，然后记笔记。
I pause it and I have a note thing.
我还在听《差距与收获》，里面有不同的提问引导我。这就是我喜欢读书的方式。
I'm also listening to The Gap and the Gain, which has different prompting questions for me to And so that's what I love to do with books.
太好了。
Perfect.
我有一些提示。
I have prompts.
所以我很期待。
So I'm really excited.
但我写这本书的初衷就是希望大家能划线、做标记、贴便签。
But I wrote this book with the intention that people will mark it up, highlight it, post it note it.
整本书里，我甚至会说：拿出笔记本，记下来。
Throughout it, I'm even like, Grab your notebook and jot this down.
确实要这样做。
Actually do this.
我在书里给出的例子，我都会说，现在想想你自己。
The examples that I give throughout the book, I'm like, Now think about yourself.
你处于人生的哪个阶段，你想要什么？
Where are you in life and what do you want?
把这些记下来。
Jot down that.
所以这本书真的会给你工具。
So it's really going to give you the tools.
再说一遍，我用的基本理念是我在认知行为疗法中所做的工作。
And again, I use the basic idea of what the work that I do is in cognitive behavioral therapies.
CBT非常注重行动。
CBT is very action oriented.
它非常以目标为导向。
It's very goal directed.
它非常以患者为中心，但也是一个团队合作的方法。
It's very patient centered, but it's a very team approach.
那太完美了
That's perfect
对运动员来说。
for athletes.
是的，
Yeah,
我刚才正想说这个。
that's what was just going to say.
这就是为什么我热爱我的工作，因为说到行为改变，我们得先发现哪里不对劲，然后才能去改变它。
And that's why I love the work that I do because when it comes to behavior change, we have to first identify that something's not working for you before we can change it.
再说一次，这基本上就是认知行为疗法的基本原理。
And again, that's kind of the basic premise of CBT.
所以有很多工具和技巧，但不会让人感到不知所措。
So there's lots of tools, lots of tips, but not too overwhelming.
或者说，我分解的方式不会让人感到不知所措。
Or rather, it's not overwhelming the way that I break it down.
因为再说一次，我不认为任何人需要彻底改变生活才能开始感觉更好。
Because again, I don't believe anyone needs to completely overhaul their life to start feeling better.
但我确实相信你需要迈出一步。
But I do believe that you need to take one step too.
对。
Yeah.
就在过去一周，我一直在关注我的睡眠，因为我想，
Just in the past week, I have been focusing on my sleep because I was like,
我喜欢这样。
I love that.
这能缓解压力。
It's stress relieving.
我想，你知道吗？
I was like, you know what?
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