艾伦·奥乔亚（NASA）——来自太空的领导力启示

这是由斯坦福大学eCorner和斯坦福科技创业计划联合推出的《创业思想领袖》系列。

This is the Entrepreneurial Thought Leaders series brought to you by Stanford eCorner and the Stanford Technology Ventures Program.

大家好。

Hello, everyone.

我是马艾米莉，担任斯坦福科技创业计划的兼职讲师。

My name is Emily Ma, and I am an adjunct lecturer for the Stanford Technology Ventures Program.

欢迎各位再次回到《创业思想领袖》系列，本系列由斯坦福科技创业计划和斯坦福学生创业协会BASIS联合主办。

And welcome back to the entrepreneurial thought leader series, which is hosted by, the Stanford Technology Ventures Program and BASIS, the Business Association for Stanford entrepreneurial students.

今天，我特别高兴能再次邀请艾伦·奥乔亚回到校园。

Today, I could not be more thrilled to welcome back Ellen Ochoa to campus.

这真是一种荣幸，也让我倍感欣喜。

It is such a pleasure and such an honor.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我先简单介绍一下她的背景，她在NASA的经历非常独特，我们马上就开始。

I will share a quick bio for her and, she brings so much specialness from her time at NASA that we'll dive right in.

好的。

Okay.

先简单介绍一下。

So quick intro.

艾伦·奥乔亚是第一位进入太空的拉丁裔女性宇航员，曾两次搭乘亚特兰蒂斯号航天飞机执行任务，分别是STS-66和STS-110，担任任务专家、有效载荷指挥官、机械臂操作员和科学家。

Ellen Ochoa is the first Hispanic woman astronaut to go into space, flying on two missions aboard the space shuttle Atlantis, STS-sixty six and STS-one 10 as a mission specialist, payload commander, robotic arm operator, and scientist.

之后，她从2013年到2018年担任约翰逊航天中心首位拉丁裔主任，也是第二位女性主任。

She then served as the first Hispanic director and second female director of Johnson Space Center from 2013 to 2018.

博士。

Doctor.

奥乔亚在圣地亚哥州立大学获得物理学学士学位，在斯坦福大学获得电气工程硕士学位，并在斯坦福大学获得光学信息处理方向的电气工程博士学位。

Ochoa has her BS in physics from San Diego State University, her MS in electrical engineering from Stanford University, and her PhD in electrical engineering in optical information processing, also from Stanford.

她拥有三项光学系统相关的专利。

She holds three patents for optical systems inventions.

正如我在第一节课提到的，她还是一位古典长笛演奏家。

And, as I said in our first class, she is a classical flautist.

她不仅是第一位在太空中演奏乐器的宇航员，还是第一位在近地轨道上吹长笛的人。

And, she was not only the first astronaut to play a musical instrument in space, but she was the first one to play a flute in low Earth orbit.

真有意思。

How fun.

欢迎，艾伦。

Welcome, Ellen.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我知道你要放视频，我这就帮你准备好。

I know you're going to start with a video, I'm going to queue it up for you.

然后你本来想聊聊，嗯，其实呢，

And then you wanted to talk through the Yeah, well,

让我先简单做个介绍。

let me give a little bit of Yes, introduction please.

首先，非常高兴能来到这里，见到大家。

First, very glad to be here and to see all of you.

希望你们有机会提一些问题。

Hope you'll have an opportunity to ask some questions.

是的，斯坦福正是我职业生涯的起点，我们稍后肯定会谈到这段经历。

Yes, Stanford is kind of where it all started, and we'll talk about that later, I'm sure, about getting into my career.

我很幸运，参与了四次航天飞机任务。

But, was lucky enough to be on four space shuttle missions.

两次搭乘发现号，两次搭乘亚特兰蒂斯号。

Two on Discovery, two on Atlantis.

我想先跟大家分享一下，我在其中一次任务中所做的事情。

And, one of the things I wanted to start out doing was just show you a little bit about what we were doing on one of my missions.

我选了最后一次任务，2002年的STS-110。

I picked my final mission, STS-one 110 in 2002.

那次任务是国际空间站组装工作的一部分。

It was part of assembling the International Space Station.

那时候，空间站上已经有人常驻了，但那种感觉就像房子还在装修，你已经搬进去住了。

By that time, there was already a crew living on board, but it's sort of like living in your home when you're still building it.

当时我们有好几次航天飞机任务，都是在空间站已经有宇航员驻留的情况下，上去加装新部件的。

We had various shuttle missions that were going up and adding pieces to the space station while there were people living on board.

这次任务的目标，是开始搭建桁架结构。

What we were going to do on this mission was to start building out the truss structure.

如果你知道空间站长什么样——电影里会看到——那时候它只有一个太阳能板，但我们正准备进入下一阶段，把其他国家的实验舱送上去，比如欧洲的和日本的实验舱。

If you know what the station looks like, and you'll see it in the film if you don't, at the time it had one solar array, but we were trying to move into a phase of assembly where we could send up other laboratories from other countries, the European laboratory, the Japanese laboratory.

为此，我们需要多得多的电力。

For that, we needed much more power.

我们要搭建一条长长的桁架，总长将近107米，然后在上面挂上四组大型太阳能板。

We were going to start building out a long truss, which is in total about three fifty feet long, and then have the four large solar rays hang off that truss.

我们这次带上去的，正是这条桁架的第一段。

So, we were bringing up the very first piece of that truss.

它大概40英尺长，重达两万磅。

It's about 40 feet long, about 20,000 pounds.

我们的任务就是把它安装到空间站上，真正开启第二阶段，让空间站变成真正的国际平台，支持这些额外的实验舱。

So our job was to attach that to the station and kind of really start into the second phase where we could really turn it into an international station and support all these other laboratories.

这是一次令人兴奋的任务，如果你准备好了，我们就开始播放视频吧

And so, it was an exciting mission to be part of, and if you want to start the video

好的，行。

or Yeah, okay.

我来开始吧。

Let me start.

我来给你们做解说。

I'll go ahead and narrate it for you.

我太激动了。

I'm so excited.

这段视频简直太棒了。

This video is just incredible.

我们现在就在肯尼迪航天中心。

So of course, here we are down at Kennedy Space Center.

我当时是七人机组的一员。

I was part of a crew of seven.

另一位成员史蒂夫·史密斯，当年也在斯坦福读本科。

One of the others, Steve Smith, also, he was an undergraduate at Stanford.

之后他在这里上了商学院。

Went to business school here.

这就是航天飞机的主发动机。

There's the main engines of the space shuttle.

主发动机启动后，两侧的白色固体火箭助推器就会点火。

Once they're up and running, then the solid rocket boosters, those white boosters on either side, light up.

你能看到一些震动的迹象。

You can see some of the vibration there.

我坐在中间，第二排，担任飞行工程师，协助第一排的指令长和飞行员。

I'm the person in the middle, kind of the second row, the flight engineer supporting the commander and pilot who are in the first row of that flight deck.

这是航天飞机系统的整体画面：轨道器、两侧的白色固体火箭助推器，还有那个巨大的橙色燃料箱，里面装着液氧和液氢，为发动机提供燃料。

Here's a good view overall of the space shuttle system, the orbiter itself, the two white solid rocket boosters, and then the big orange tank, which holds the liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen, which feed the main engines of the space shuttle itself.

总推力大约七百万磅，而固体火箭助推器只在发射后的前两分钟工作。

So about 7,000,000 pounds of thrust altogether, and the solid rocket boosters only burn for about the first two minutes of launch.

分离之后，主发动机继续把我们送到目的地。

Separate away and the liquid engines take us the rest of the way there.

八分半钟后，我们的速度达到每小时一万七千五百英里。头一天半的时间，我们主要在进行几次点火机动，调整轨道，好跟空间站会合。

Eight and a half minutes later, we're traveling 17,500 miles an hour, and we really spent the first day and a half doing some burns and getting us in position to be able to rendezvous with the station.

作为飞行工程师，我继续和指令长、飞行员一起执行交会对接的飞行程序。

So again, I'm working with the commander and pilot as the flight engineer as we're flying the rendezvous profile.

对接程序。

Profile.

这是空间站那边看到我们接近时的样子，中间那个大部件就是我们准备安装的S0桁架。

So this is what we look like from the station as we're coming up, and that big piece you see in the center there, that's the truss structure we called S0 that we're going to add.

这是空间站当时的模样。

This is what the station looked like.

现在我们正接近准备对接，上面是空间站，下面是我们飞船的对接口，正在连接。我们的指令长对我们的飞行表现非常满意。

We're coming up to dock with it now, so that's the station on the upper half and the docking mechanism in the shuttle on the lower half connecting, and then we're going to pull our commander was pretty happy with us flying there.

几个小时后，我们做了泄漏检查。

After a couple hours, we did a leak check.

我们打开了舱门，他和空间站的指令长、宇航员尤里·奥诺·弗兰科会合了。

We opened the hatches, and he met up with the commander of the space station, cosmonaut Yuri Ono Franco.

接着我们都飘进了空间站，见到了其他宇航员，巧的是，其中有两个人跟我同届，挺有意思的。

Then we all floated into the station, met with the rest of the station crew, which happened to be two guys from my astronaut class, so that was fun.

然后我们立刻开始搬运设备和物资，好在漂浮时不用非得用手，用膝盖也能夹着推着走。

And then we started right off moving equipment and supplies, which you can do between your knees, not just in your hands when you're floating, fortunately.

第二天早上，我们正式进入任务的核心阶段。

Then the next morning we really got into the meat of the mission.

这时候我正在操作机械臂。

So I'm operating the robot arm here.

这是空间站上的机械臂控制站，我们用它把S0段从货舱里吊出来，挪到指定位置，过程中还得分心看窗外——尼罗河、亚喀巴湾，风景美得让人分神。

This is the robotic workstation on the space station, and we're using the station arm to lift S-zero up out of the payload bay and move it around, trying distracted by, let's see, the Nile River, the Gulf Of Aqaba behind you, all the beautiful views as we're moving it into place.

接下来就是这个步骤的收尾部分。

And then this is sort of the final part of that.

我们要把S0段安装到空间站的天顶侧，当时负责操作机械臂的是我和空间站上的宇航员丹·伯施。

We're going to attach attach it to the zenith side of the space station, and astronaut Dan Bersch, who was a station crew member, he and I were the two people operating the arm at that point.

在我们对接的这一周里，一旦暂时固定好，我们就进行了四次太空行走，完成最终安装、给所有设备通电，确保S0彻底启动并正常运行。

Over the week that we were docked, once we got it temporarily attached, we did a series of four spacewalks to complete the attachment, to power up all the equipment, everything you needed to do to get S0 really up and running and powered.

接下来这些画面，来自太空行走队员头盔上的摄像机。

So these next view here are from the cameras that are on the helmets of the space walking crew members.

你看他正拿着一个大型线缆托架，地球上重约200磅，但在太空中完全是失重状态。

Here you can see he's holding a big cable tray, weighs about 200 pounds on earth, weightless of their course.

他们需要连接各种各样的接口，尤其是大量电力线路，还得用电动工具完成与空间站的结构固定。

And they had many, many different kinds of connections to make, a lot of them power connections, using power tools to actually complete the structural attachment to the station.

这些操作期间，我一直待在舱内，操作空间站的机械臂或者航天飞机的机械臂，帮他们移动位置。

For all of these, I was inside operating either the station robot arm or the shuttle robot arm, moving crew members around during those.

还有一些其他画面。

Some other views.

这是在航天飞机这边拍的。

This is actually on the shuttle side.

我们当时在中层甲板。

We're in the mid deck.

我们带了一些食物上来，和空间站里的同事一起分享。

We brought up some food to share with the station.

当时休斯顿正在举办牛仔竞技大会，对休斯顿的人来说可是大事，所以我们那边也搞了个牛仔主题。

It was rodeo time in Houston, which is a big deal if you're in Houston, so we had a rodeo theme going there.

我的一位队友雷克斯·沃尔海姆，正在家庭视频通话里给两个孩子表演。

One of my crewmates, Rex Walheim, was showing off for his two little kids on a family conference.

这是史蒂夫·史密斯，我之前提过，斯坦福毕业的，展示了一下在舱内让液体自由漂浮是什么样子。

Here's Steve Smith, as I mentioned, Stanford grad, showing what happens when you let liquid loose in the cabin.

在我们对接的这一周结束时，我们顺利完成了所有任务。

And at the end of the week where we were docked, we fortunately completed all of our objectives.

桁架结构上的所有设备都已启动运行，于是我们关上了舱门，确认两边的人数都对得上。

Everything was up and running on the truss structures, so we closed the hatches, making sure we had the right number of people on both sides.

接下来就是分离了，这次由我们的飞行员史蒂夫·弗里克负责操控。

And then it was time to undock, and this time our pilot Steve Frick was at the commands.

这次我还是和他一起配合工作。

Again, I was working with him.

我们慢慢退到大约400英尺外，等着日出——在地球轨道上每一个半小时就绕一圈，日出来得特别快。

We separated away about 400 feet, waited for sunrise, which happens very quickly when you're orbiting the Earth every hour and a half.

分开之后，我们绕着空间站飞了一圈，拍下完整的照片，给下次任务留作参考。

And then after we separated away, we did a complete fly around of the station so that we could photo document it for the next cruise coming up.

这时候我们已经飞到一半了。

So here we're halfway around.

你能看到这里用了摄像头和激光测距设备，这会儿差不多快结束了。

You can see it's using cameras and laser ranging devices here, and this is sort of at the end of that.

下面那个机械臂看得清楚吧。

You can see the arm down there.

中间那个深色的长方形，就是我们刚装上去的部件。

The dark rectangle in the center is the piece we just added.

之后我们点火推进，飞得更远了，然后花了一整天检查航天飞机返回时要用的所有系统。

After that, we did a burn to move much further away, and then we spent a day checking out all the systems we were going to need for reentry on the shuttle.

这是最后一天的早晨。

Here's the very final morning.

我们正在为再入大气层做准备，关闭有效载荷舱门，穿上发射和返回时的宇航服，坐到座位上，然后点火执行脱离轨道燃烧。

We're closing the payload bay doors as we're getting ready ready for reentry, getting into our launch and entry suits, and of course then into our seats, performing a deorbit burn.

再入的最后阶段，由指令长手动驾驶。

And then at the very final part of entry, the commander is flying right now.

我们现在飞越佛罗里达上空。

We're over Florida.

他正在把我们对准跑道。

He's going to line us up on the runway.

他面前有个抬头显示器，你可以看到跑道现在慢慢出现在视野里。

He's got a heads up display here that he's watching, and you can see the runway come into sight now.

我们的外形很像飞机，但有个关键区别：发动机全都没在运转。

So we look a lot like an airplane, but one big difference: no engines running.

我们其实就是一个大型滑翔机。

So we're a big glider.

我们正在快速下降，升力很小，差不多就像一块带着一点前冲力的石头。

We're actually dropping very rapidly, not a whole lot of lift, kind of like a rock with a little bit of forward motion.

在两千英尺高度之前，我们会拉起机头，为在跑道上着陆做准备。

Until two thousand feet, we do perform a pull up to get ready to land on the runway there.

在离地大约三百英尺时，起落架会放下。

And the gear come down about 300 feet above the ground.

着陆瞬间的速度比民航客机快得多。

There's touchdown, again, much faster than an airliner.

这时候我们的速度仍然超过两百节，所以要靠减速伞来帮助减速。

We're still going well over 200 knots at this point, so we use that drag chute to help slow us down.

我们有一条三英里长的跑道，但这确实能让着陆过程更快完成。

We do have a three mile long runway, but that certainly helps make the touchdown happen much more quickly.

正如我之前提到的，这次任务属于空间站组装的一部分，所以我再简单补充一点背景。

And then, as I mentioned, this was part of station assembly, so I just wanted to give you a little more introduction.

好，这是空间站现在的样子，你可以看到，自从我们执行那次任务后，它已经扩展了这么多。

Okay, this is what the station looks like today, so you can see how much it grew after mission that we had.

我之前说过，那个桁架结构大约有三百五十英尺长。

As I mentioned, that truss structure is about three fifty feet long.

当然，我们主要用它来做研发工作。

Of course, we're basically using it for research and development.

这是舱外的一项实验——阿尔法磁谱仪，目的是更好地了解暗物质和暗能量。

This is one of the experiments on the outside, the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer, trying to learn more about dark matter and dark energy.

这是美国的实验舱。

This is a US lab.

你看里面配备了各种科学设备，用于开展多种不同的科学实验和技术开发。

As you can see, it has all kinds of science equipment in it that's used for many different kinds of science experiments and technology development.

这是宇航员佩吉·惠特森在空间站上操作干细胞实验。

This is astronaut Peggy Whitson working with stem cells onboard the station.

我们来看看，实际上是把皮肤细胞转化成心肌细胞。

Let's see, actually turning skin cells into heart muscle cells.

你能看到它们已经开始像真实心脏一样同步跳动了。

And you can see they're actually starting to beat together as they would in an actual heart.

这是宇航员凯特·鲁宾斯，她也是斯坦福大学的毕业生。

This is astronaut Kate Rubins, another Stanford grad, by the way.

她在这里攻读癌症生物学博士学位，做了相关研究。

She got her PhD in cancer biology here doing work.

宇航员基尔·英格林正在观察太空中的燃烧现象。

Astronaut Kjell Ingrin looking at combustion in space.

那确实是太空中的一种火焰，和地球上受重力影响的火焰完全不同，它会以两种不同的温度燃烧，其中一种比地球上低得多。

That's actually a flame in space, which looks quite different than something on Earth, under the influence of gravity, and it actually burns at two different temperatures, one much cooler than what you would find on Earth.

这是位于附近NASA艾姆斯研究中心开发的一套设备，主要用作宇航员的助手。

Here's a piece of equipment developed at NASA Ames just down the road to be essentially an astronaut assistant.

它可以协助拍照、管理物资，还有其他各种任务。

It can help with photography, with inventory, other kinds of things.

他们早期就试用过这种可展开式太阳能阵列，现在已安装了多个，用来替换原先因长期暴露在紫外线下而老化的太阳能板。

One of the technologies they tried out fairly early on was this roll out solar array, and they've now actually attached several of these to take over from the original solar rays, which had degraded because of all the ultraviolet light that they're subjected to.

他们已经发射了两百多个小型卫星和立方星，甚至包括一所小学的项目，当然更多的是高校和企业研制的。

They've deployed, I don't know, well over 200 smallsats and cubesats, including even for an elementary school, but certainly lots of universities and companies.

他们测试过可扩展舱段，不只是传统的铝制结构，还在轨道上种植了多种植物。

They've tested out expandable modules, not just aluminum ones, grown many different kinds of plants on orbit.

宇航员本人也参与了大量科学实验，目的是更好地了解人类在太空中的健康状况和表现。

The astronauts themselves are part of a lot of the science experiments, trying to learn more about human health and performance in space.

这大概就能让你有个概念了。

And so that gives you an idea.

他们还积极参与各种教育活动，与全国各地乃至全球的学校连线交流，毕竟这是个国际空间站。

They also participate in a lot of different educational activities, speaking with schools around the country and of course around the world too, given that it's an international station.

当然，他们也在努力更深入地了解地球。

And of course one of the things that they do is they're trying to learn a lot more about the earth.

有时候会用专门的设备，但更多时候是靠宇航员拍摄的照片和视频，这些素材会被地面上的科学家用来补充其他数据。

And sometimes that's with specific equipment, but it also happens with astronaut photography and videography, which are used by scientists on the ground, often to supplement some other kind of data that they are collecting.

这展示了我们常用的补给飞船，比如SpaceX的龙飞船和诺斯罗普·格鲁曼的天鹅座飞船。

This gives you an idea of the resupply vehicles that we use, a SpaceX Dragon, Northrop Grumman Cygnus vehicle.

未来一两年内，可能会新增一家西拉空间公司的新飞船。

At some point, maybe this year or next year, a new one by Sierra Space.

另外还有一家公司，SpaceX，现在负责把宇航员往返运送至国际空间站。

Then we have a company, SpaceX, that of course is delivering our astronauts now to and from the International Space Station.

那是第一次载人试飞任务，由鲍勃·本肯和道格两位宇航员执行。

That was actually from the very first test mission that took up two astronauts by Bob Behnken and Doug.

这是它溅落时的样子。

This is what it looks like, of course, when it splashes down.

另一家公司波音也在开发一种飞船，叫星际航线。

Then there's a second company, Boeing, also developing a vehicle, Star Liner.

你可能听说过星际航线遇到的一些问题，但这次是它首次无人飞行，成功对接空间站并安全返回。

You've probably heard of some of the issues that the Starliners had, but this was the first mission that was uncrewed that actually went up there and docked with the station and came home.

现在我们要更新一下，因为我们已经完成了阿尔忒弥斯一号任务，那是一次无人飞行，但用的是全新的火箭——太空发射系统。

I'm going to have to update this now that we've The had Artemis Artemis I vehicle, again, was uncrewed but a completely new rocket, the Space Launch System SLS.

还有一艘新飞船叫猎户座，由约翰逊航天中心主导开发，主承包商是洛克希德·马丁。

A new spacecraft called Orion, which Johnson Space Center was responsible for developing along with prime contractor Lockheed Martin.

无人任务非常令人振奋，但如今我们已经完成了首次载人飞行——阿尔忒弥斯二号，接下来NASA准备在明年执行阿尔忒弥斯三号。

So uncrewed was a very exciting mission, but of course now we've had the first crewed mission, Artemis II, NASA is looking toward Artemis III next year.

好了，接下来我们来回答一些你的问题，艾米莉。

So with that, we'll get to some of your questions, Emily.

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

我之前看过这个视频，没配解说，就已经觉得太震撼了。

I watched the video prior without the narration, and it was already amazing.

现在听了你的解说，感觉更棒了，而且这个话题真是恰逢其时。

And hearing your narration is even more incredible and it's such a timely topic.

是啊，尤其是最后那段。

Yeah, especially at the end.

我懂。

I know.

结尾肯定会有好多问题涌出来。

You're going to have lots of questions at the end.

所以我先提三个到四个问题，之后就请大家依次上台提问。

So I'll be pretty brief with three or four questions and I'm going to allow all of you to come up to the microphone here.

那我先问第一个问题。

So let me start with, the the first question.

这门课讲的是真正践行创业精神，我觉得人类能做的最具创业精神的事，莫过于去太空了。

This class is about really embodying the entrepreneurial spirit and, I can't think of a more entrepreneurial action that a human can do than to go into space.

所以，也许我们可以听听你的一些感悟，

So maybe we could hear a few reflections from

对你来说，践行创业精神意味着什么？

you about what does it mean for you to embody the entrepreneurial spirit?

对我来说，这其实关乎参与探索。

Well, to me, it's kind of about being part of exploration.

探索的方式有很多，

And There's a lot of different ways that you can do exploration.

但太空，你知道的，那是最后的边疆。

But certainly, space, you know, the final frontier.

我不确定是不是最后的，

I don't know if

但肯定非常令人兴奋。

it's the final, but it certainly is exciting.

我觉得航天飞机项目很大程度上是在探讨：太空到底能用来做什么？

And I think a lot of what the shuttle program was trying to do was talk about what can you actually use space for?

航天飞机的设计初衷就是执行各种各样的任务。

So, the space shuttle was developed to do many, many different things.

它可以运送卫星并将其部署到太空中，我早期的几次任务中，我们就运送过科学卫星。

It could take up satellites and deploy them, and actually on my first couple of missions, we took up science satellites.

我用机械臂把它们送入太空。

I used the robot arm to deploy them into space.

几天后我们再返回，用机械臂把它们接回来。

And then we came back a few days later, used the arm to grab it and bring it back.

大部分数据都是在飞船上采集的，所以确实有必要把它们带回来。

Most of the data were collected on board, so you really did want to bring it back.

比如研究太阳风、高层大气的天气，这些都是航天飞机能完成的任务。

Studying the solar winds, studying the weather in the upper atmosphere, so certainly that was one thing that the shuttle could do.

当然，它还部署了哈勃太空望远镜，为太空科学做了很多贡献。

Of course, it deployed the Hubble Space Telescope, so it's done a lot for space science.

整个美国

All of The U.

航天局

S.

建造国际空间站的所有设备都是由航天飞机运上去的。

Equipment that went up to build the International Space Station was taken up on the shuttle itself.

在其他任务中，整个货舱都装满了加压实验室，宇航员可以在里面工作，开展各种科学实验。

And then, on other missions, the whole payload bay was filled with a laboratory, a pressurized laboratory, so that the astronauts could work inside and use it for many different kinds of science.

所以，很多工作其实是在思考：你到底想用它来做什么？

And so, a lot of it was understanding, Okay, you know, what do you really want to use it for?

我认为我们至今仍处在探索的初期阶段，但航天飞机项目给了我们大量机会，去尝试各种各样的科学实验。

What you can learn, I think we're actually still very much at the beginning of But answering that we had a lot of opportunities during the shuttle program to try out many different kinds of science.

我特别欣赏你的反思，因为这一切都深深植根于好奇心和科学探索，而航天飞机和国际空间站正是实现这一目标的载体。

What I loved about, your- your sort of reflections is that it's all about leaning very heavily into curiosity and scientific discovery and the space shuttle and the international space station was a vessel for that.

没错。

Yes.

当然不是每个实验都顺利，对吧？

And, it, I mean, I'm sure not every experiment went well, right?

所以，能不能跟我们讲讲，有没有哪次任务中，比如CubeSat没能成功回收之类的经历？

So, you know, what, how, tell, tell us maybe, you know, a story or two where, you know, the, the, it was, maybe you weren't able to recover a, you know, a CubeSat or, you know, whatever it was out there.

作为宇航员，遇到这种情况感觉怎么样？

Was that like to, you know, be a crew?

在太空中执行任务，压力确实很大，对吧？

It's pretty high stakes being up there, you know?

确实如此。

Well, is.

安全当然是重中之重，幸运的是，我参与的每次任务都没出现过直接影响我们安全的问题。

And, you know, obviously there's safety aspect to it and, fortunately on all the missions that I was on, we never had any issue that we really affected personally, our safety.

不过，哥伦比亚号计划返航那天，我正在任务控制中心，所以对那种情况再清楚不过。

Although, I was in mission control the day Columbia was supposed to return, so I know about that side.

但每次发射航天飞机，我们通常在太空待上十到十六天。

But I would say, you know, every time we sent up a shuttle, you know, you were up there usually anywhere from ten to sixteen days.

我所有的任务都是九天、十天或十一天。

All my missions were nine, ten or eleven days.

通常有一个主要目标，再加上很多小实验要同时进行。

And you had generally one main objective and then often a lot of smaller experiments that you were working on.

毫无疑问，把所有东西送入太空花销巨大，所以我们总觉得必须充分利用在太空中的每一分钟。

No question, it costs a lot of money to get everything into space, and so what you really felt like was you need to make the absolute most of every minute you had on board.

所以人们总是

So people are

总有人问：‘你们在太空中的空闲时间都干点啥？’

always like, Well, what did you do in your spare time while you were up there?

我说：‘我根本不记得我们有过什么空闲时间。’

And I was like, I do not recall any spare time while we were up there.

那你倒是玩过太空电话亭？

You played the booth though?

是的。

Yes.

不过我想跟你说说这个，因为这是我个人特别想做的事。

But the only Well, I'll tell you about that, because that was something I personally wanted to do.

这对我来说非常重要。

It was very important to me.

音乐本来差点就成了我的职业。

Music was something I almost went down as a career.

没错。

That's right.

那时候，宇航员可以带一两件个人物品，通常都是很小的东西，所以我特别想带我的长笛。

But, at the time, you you were allowed to take one or two personal items, generally very And so, I wanted to take my flute.

当时NASA说，不允许把乐器带上太空。

At the time, NASA was saying you could not take a musical instrument into space.

其实我不是第一个带乐器上太空的人，但我确实是第一个带长笛上去的。

And actually I wasn't the first one to take a musical instrument, but I was the first flute.

不过，我们其中一个小目标是拍摄大量素材，用来制作NASA的一部视频，叫《太空生活》，目标观众是幼儿园到二年级的孩子。

However, one of our, smaller objectives is we were supposed to be filming a lot of, scenes for a video NASA was putting together called Living in Space, and it was aimed at kindergartners through second graders.

于是他们在地球上拍了一些孩子们日常生活的片段，然后我们在太空里也拍了我们自己的日常，想做个对比。

And so they filmed some on Earth with kids kind of going through their day, and then we filmed in space going through our day, trying to sort of compare and contrast, right?

所以我心想，要是能展示出在太空里也能追求自己的爱好，那该多好啊。

So I was like, Wouldn't it be great if we could show you could actually pursue your hobbies

在太空里也能吗？

in space?

天啊，真厉害。

Oh, wow.

所以我最终把笛子带上了，但说实话，如果我们按原计划那天就着陆了，很多该拍的镜头都还没来得及拍，我也没机会把笛子拿出来——就像我说的，那会儿真的忙得不可开交。

So I was able to get it on board as part of that, but honestly, if we had landed the day we were supposed to, we hadn't gotten around to filming like half of the things we were supposed to film, and I had not had a chance to pull out, because, like I said, you're just so busy.

不过我们碰上了天气延误，结果在太空多待了一阵子。

However, we had a weather delay, and so we actually stayed in space.

是多待了一天还是两天？

Was it one extra day or two?

不管怎样，我们都觉得挺好。

Anyway, we're like, Well, good.

我们现在可以把这段视频剪完了。

We can finish this video now.

那时候我才有空把长笛拿出来，吹了几段，加进这部关于太空生活的视频里。

And that's when I actually had time to pull out the flute and play it for a few to include it in that video on living in space.

听起来运气也起了点作用。

Well, it sounds like there was a little bit of luck involved.

是的。

Yeah.

要争取把长笛带上太空，那可真是千辛万苦才办成的。

There was also threading a needle to make the case to bring your flute up into space.

真是个动人的故事。

And what a, what a lovely story.

我们平时也经常想，韧性到底意味着什么？

I think, you know, we think a lot about, you know, here also, what does it mean to be resilient?

其实，培养爱好特别重要。

And actually, hobbies are quite important.

所以，我很高兴我们花了点时间聊这个。

So, I'm glad we'd spent a few minutes

想想现在那些在国际空间站待上六个月甚至八个月的人，这真的很重要——他们确实有机会带上一些个人物品，延续在地球上热爱的爱好，而这种能力对维持良好的心理状态和整体表现至关重要。

Well, when you think about the people that spend six or eight months on the International Space Station now, that actually really is important and- and people do have the opportunity to take some things into space with you that would be following up on a hobby that they're very interested in on Earth and- and it really is part of maintaining good human performance up there is having the right mindset and being able to do things like that.

这正好引出我的第二个问题，是关于团队协作以及如何实现最高水平的人类表现，毕竟你在航天飞机上的时间非常有限。

That's a lovely segue to my second question which is actually about working together as a team and really achieving the highest level human performance because your time is so short when you're on a space shuttle.

我看完阿尔忒弥斯二号机组事后复盘时，深受触动。

So, I was so taken by watching the Artemis two crew sort of debrief their mission afterwards.

宇航员杰里米·汉森提到了‘快乐列车’这个说法。

And astronaut Jeremy Hansen talked about the joy train.

这并不是说每天都要一直开心，而是他们彼此承诺，

It's not about being joyful all the time every day, but it was they had a commitment to each other Right.

面对每一个即将来临的任务、每一个可能遇到的挑战，

To look at, every every task ahead of them, every challenge they might have ahead of them Mhmm.

都保持乐观的态度。

With optimism.

你和你的团队在2010年1月执行第六次任务时，实际上你一共执行了四次任务，当时是怎么安排的？

How did you and your crew for '66 01/2010 and actually you had four missions.

是的。

Yeah.

你们在台后是怎么应对的？

How did you approach that behind the scenes?

没错，首先，阿尔忒弥斯二号任务真是太棒了，整个团队表现得非常出色。

Yeah, well, first of all, Artemis II mission, what a great mission, what a great crew.

他们不仅在技术和操作上做得无可挑剔，更难得的是那种彼此分享、互相支持的氛围，我特别喜欢看他们那段经历。

And they just did such a fantastic job, not- not just technically- technically and operationally, but I think in sharing it with And the so, loved watching it.

但说真的，那种感觉让我觉得特别熟悉。

But, you know, it felt very familiar.

这正是我当年带团队时一直追求的那种氛围。

That's just the exact kind of thing that, I felt with my crews.

我记得有一次任务，我们的指令长给团队定了个口号：如果你没觉得开心，那你肯定没做对。

I remember on one of my missions, our commander, he had this motto for our crew, which If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right.

尽管我们做的事极其严肃，肩负着对科学家、对NASA、对纳税人的巨大责任，也知道风险很高，但你依然能找到办法让工作变得有趣。

So, you know, even though what we are doing is deadly serious, and we feel a great deal of responsibility to the scientists, to NASA, to the taxpayers, and all of that, and we know it can be very risky, you can still figure out a way to have fun.

你们一起训练一年，像阿耳忒弥斯二号这样的任务甚至要训练三年。

And so, you know, you train together for a year, the Artemis II like three years.

时间一长，大家彼此都特别熟悉，连对方的家人都认识。

And so, you get to know each other very well, you know each other's families.

但最重要的是，你们有共同的目标，都知道大家在为同一件事努力。

But I think the main thing is you have a common purpose, a common objective, and you know that you're all working toward that.

我觉得这本身就能把团队紧紧凝聚在一起。

And I think that really pulls you together as well.

除了吹长笛之外，还有没有其他特别有趣的时刻？

Any, any moments of fun that are particulars other than, other than playing the flute?

你知道吗，当你能在国际空间站的节点舱里自由翻跟头时，这种事在地球上可享受不到。

Well, you know, obviously when you can twirl somersaults in the middle of, you know, like the node of the International Space Station, that's just something you don't get to do on Earth.

想不吃东西玩，真的很难。

It's pretty hard not to play with your food.

你得特别小心，别让东西飘在舱里，不然会搞得一团糟，还可能卡住各种设备。

You just have to be really careful not to leave it floating around the cabin because that can really make a mess and potentially gunk up, you know, machines and things like that.

得盯着那些小颗粒，确保全都吸干净。

You have to sort of follow all the little particles and make sure you hoover them down.

我特别喜欢那段视频里漂浮的液体，没错。

I love the, bit of the video with the, floating liquid and so Yes.

我能想象那得多乱。

I can imagine how how messy it could get.

你当过宇航员之后，还担任过约翰逊航天中心主任，对吧。

After you, were an astronaut, you also then, you were at the helm of Johnson Space Center Mhmm.

2013年到2018年。

2013 to 2018.

五年时间，这个职位至关重要，意义非凡。

So five years, really, really critical, really important role.

咱们能不能花几分钟聊聊这段经历？你有哪些领导经验想跟我们的学生分享？

Maybe we could take a few minutes to talk about that chapter and some of the leadership lessons that you might want to share with our students during that chapter

时间吗？

of time?

是的，能当上主任真的是一种荣幸。

Yeah, well that- it was really a privilege to be the director.

约翰逊航天中心有一支非常出色、才华横溢的团队，他们都有共同的使命和目标，大家齐心协力去实现它。

We have a wonderful, talented team at Johnson Space Center, and again, they're all motivated by, you know, we have a common mission and a common objective and we're going to work towards that.

作为领导者，其实就两个核心目标，我在宇航员办公室从一些海军陆战队员身上学到了：完成任务，照顾好你的团队。

You know, think as a leader you really have two main goals and I will say I learned this from some of the Marines in the astronaut office: accomplish the mission, take care of your people.

说起来很简单。

It's pretty simple.

但实际做起来并不容易。

Now, it's not always simple to do.

对。

No.

但你的优先事项其实很清晰。

But your priorities are pretty simple.

我有个海军陆战队的朋友说，通常你得处理三件事，但我们是海军陆战队，所以只管两件。

And one of my Marine friends said, Yeah, you know, most times there's like three things you're supposed to do, but we're Marines, so there's just two.

没错，目标越少越简单，是吧。

Yep, fewer priorities easier, yeah.

完成任务，照顾好团队。

Accomplish the mission, take care of your people.

我觉得当约翰逊航天中心的主任，和当宇航员 crew 成员的区别在于，你得重新定义一下任务。

I would say the difference between being the director of Johnson Space Center and being an astronaut on a crew is just that you have to define the mission a little bit differently.

显然范围要广得多。

It's obviously much more broad.

你得更多地考虑，怎么为团队的未来打基础，不能只盯着眼前的使命，还得想着明天的使命。

You have to think more about, how do you set up your organization for the future, so it's not just about today's mission, it's about tomorrow's mission.

作为领导者，很容易被眼前的问题牵着走，反而没花足够时间去思考未来，做好长远准备。

And I think as a leader it's always easy to get sucked into today's issues and not spend enough time thinking about tomorrows and setting yourself up well.

所以我觉得，这算是一个很大的挑战，我接手的时候，正好是国际空间站组装完成之际。

So, would think I thought that was, one of the big challenges, and I took over at a time when we had finished assembly of the International Space Station.

我们当时在研发猎户座飞船，但它的任务在开发过程中改了两三次，所以你总是在追着变动跑，不确定到底算不算探索任务。不过我们其中一个目标，是想让空间站更像一个实验室——地面上的实验，不是每次都能一次成功，但我们需要更快的迭代速度。可航天领域本来就很难，因为设备认证耗时长、成本高。所以我们发起了一次重大改革，想办法降低成本、缩短周期，重点转变观念：只要不危及宇航员安全或空间站本身健康，失败是可以接受的。

We were working on the Orion spacecraft, but its mission changed two or three times during its development, and so you're always sort of chasing a little bit about what you've been told of whether or not you have an exploration mission or but one of the things we were trying to do was make it, make the space station a little bit more like a laboratory where you have on the ground, where not everything does work the first time, you want the ability to have a quicker turnaround time, which is just very difficult in the space business because it takes a long time to qualify things, it's expensive, and so we had a big change effort to how do we take the cost and time out of that, how do we focus a little bit more on, hey, it's okay to fail as long as it's not something that affects the safety of the astronauts or the health of the space station itself.

如果我们能做到这一点，就能把多种不同版本的设备陆续送上太空，而不是把所有资源押在一次尝试上。

If we can do that, we actually have the opportunity to get multiple variations of something up there instead of like all this effort.

你只有一次机会，搞砸了就再也没法重来，对吧？

Here's your one shot and if it doesn't work, you never get another shot, you know?

我觉得我们在这一点上取得了很大进展，

So, I think we made a lot of progress on

我在任期间确实看到了这些改变。

that during the time that I was director.

这太了不起了。

That is amazing.

你能在这么难的环境里建立起灵活性，真是不容易，对吧？

You were able to build agility in probably one of the most difficult environments possible, right?

你说是吧？

You know?

是的

Yeah.

对，没错

So Yeah.

真是个精彩的故事

What a story.

跟我说说你们是怎么关心团队的吧，毕竟完成任务本身其实挺直接的，对吧？

Tell me a little bit more about taking care of people because accomplished the mission is going straightforward, right?

你有目标，然后去实现它就行了。

You know, you have an objective, you're going to achieve it.

那什么叫真正关心你的团队成员呢？

What does it mean to take care of your people?

这可是不少人啊

That's a lot of people

就在约翰逊航天中心。

at Johnson Space Center.

是的。

Yes.

没错，我们当时有大约三千名公务员，还有六七百名承包商，他们大多在基地或附近工作。

Yeah, we had about 3,000 civil servants and another six to seven contractors who either worked on-site or close by, most of them.

少数人分布在其他地方，但绝大多数都在这儿。

A few of them worked other places, but most of them worked by.

所以，这很大程度上跟文化有关。

So, a lot of it has to do with the culture.

我们特别注重营造一种包容的文化。

We really did focus on a culture of inclusion.

首先，你要吸引什么样的人进来？

First of all, in who are you bringing in?

但人来了之后，他们有没有机会接受培训、获得发展，能不能调岗、转职，有没有机会去承担新的角色？我们花了很多精力去培养下一代领导者——不管是技术型、管理型，还是整个组织层面的领导者。

But then, once they're there, are they getting the opportunities to really, to learn training and development, to move into new roles, to move around if they want to have that opportunity and, you know, to build the next generation of leaders, whether that's a technical leader or a supervisory type of leader or overall organizational leader, so we spend a lot of time on that.

我前面提到过，哥伦比亚号失事的时候，我正在任务控制中心。我不知道你们有没有看过相关的资料——有时候这些案例会被拿来做分析，当时确实有一份完整的调查报告。

We, as I mentioned, I was in mission control when we lost Columbia, and so I don't know if any of you have ever looked at- sometimes they use these as case studies, but there was a whole investigation and report that came out.

当然有技术问题，但更多是人性和文化层面的问题，所以我们一直努力让员工明白：不仅要敢于开口，更要有责任主动发声。

Of course there were technical issues, but there were a lot of human nature and culture issues, and so, we continue to try to focus on things like people need to feel- not only need to feel comfortable speaking up, they need to understand it's absolutely their responsibility to speak up.

没错。

Yeah.

这不是可选项，而是必须做的。

Like, it's not an option not to speak up.

如果你有疑问，或者觉得结论缺乏数据支持，你就有义务提出来。

If you have a question, if you think the conclusion that's being reached isn't supported by the data, you have a responsibility to speak up.

这不仅关乎安全，更关乎是否真正尊重数据，是否做了恰当的测试，是否问了正确的问题。

So, a lot of it has to do with not only safety, but integrity of, you know, really following the data, trying to understand if we are appropriately sort of taking care of, are we doing the right testing, are we asking the right questions?

如果你觉得我们做得不够，就必须说出来，因为这关系到人的生命。

And if you think we're not, you absolutely need to speak up because people's lives depend on it.

说得对。

That's right.

这在NASA是极其重要的事。

So, is something that's, incredibly important to NASA.

这对我来说真的特别重要。

Was certainly incredibly important to me.

这个视角转变真的很关键，对吧？

That is a really important reframe, right?

不只是鼓励大家开口，而是要把这当成一种责任，因为关系到人命。

Not only encouraging people to speak up, but really framing it as it's a responsibility and lives are on the line.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你必须说出来。

And so you must speak up.

这太好了。

It's wonderful.

我最后问一个问题，如果大家有疑问，请开始排队。

I'm going to ask one final question and if you have questions, please start lining up.

我们总是用蒂娜·西利格的一个问题来结束这场非正式对话，她正是三十年前发起这个系列的教授。问题是：如果你能穿越回过去，见到二十岁时的自己——那时你还在圣地亚哥州立大学读书，你会对那个年轻的自己说些什么忠告？

We have the microphone we always end, our formal part of the fireside chat with a question from Tina Seelig who was the professor who started the series thirty years ago which is, if you can travel back in time and meet yourself when you were 20 years old, San Diego State studying, what are a few words of wisdom you would give the 20 year old version of yourself?

是的，我本科在圣地亚哥州立大学读书，后来到这里读研，确实学到了不少东西。

Yeah, so I was at San Diego State as an undergrad and then came here for graduate school and I certainly learned a couple of things, there.

有时候，你学到的是哪些事不该做，以及该听谁的。

In some ways, you learn what not to do or what- who you should listen to.

所以

So, would

总的来说，我的建议是找到支持你的人。

say the overall piece of advice is find your support people.

对。

Ah.

因为你总会遇到一些人，他们告诉你做不到你想要的事。

Because you will run into people who are going to try to tell you you can't do what you want to do.

你得能分辨出，哪些是能让你成长的建设性意见，哪些只是别人在投射自己的偏见。

And you have to be able to sort of tell the difference between what is constructive criticism that you can learn from and build on, and what are people just sort of showing their own internal biases?

我给你讲几个小故事吧。

So I'll just give you a couple stories.

我在圣地亚哥州立大学读书的时候，根本不知道自己将来要做什么。

When I was at San Diego State, I went there not having any idea what I was going to do.

我那时候在军乐队和管乐团演奏，但觉得音乐这条路不太可能当职业。

You know, I played in the marching band and the wind ensemble, but figured music was really not going to, you know, be a good career path.

不过我一直很喜欢数学，所以就继续学了下去。

But I'd always taken a lot of math, so I continued that.

快学完微积分系列课程时，我想，我得找找看哪些领域真能用上我学的这些数学知识。

I was finishing up the calculus series, and I thought, you know, I really should look into some subjects that actually use this math that I'm learning.

我学这些纯粹是觉得有趣。

I'm just sort of doing it for fun.

于是我去找了两位教授聊聊。

And so I went to talk to two professors.

一位是电气工程系的教授，他说：我们这儿以前确实有个女生来过。

One was in the electrical engineering department there, and he said, Well, we did have a woman come through here once.

但你知道，这专业特别难，我觉得你大概不会对我们的方向感兴趣。

But, you know, it's a really difficult course of study, and I just don't you'd be interested in what we do here.