VCs are betting billions on AI's next wave, so why is OpenAI killing Sora?

大家好，欢迎回到TechCrunch的Equity播客，今天我们聊创业公司的商业故事。

Hello, and welcome back to Equity TechCrunch's podcast about the business of startups.

我是TechCrunch的交通领域编辑柯尔斯滕·科罗塞克，今天和我一起的是周末编辑安东尼·哈，还有资深记者肖恩·奥凯恩。

I'm Kirsten Korosec, transportation editor here at TechCrunch, and I'm joined by our weekend editor, Anthony Ha and senior reporter, Sean O'Kane.

我有个重要问题想问安东尼。

And I have an important question for Anthony.

我先从你开始问。

I'm gonna start with you.

假设你有一片农场，有个数据中心愿意出两千六百万美元，买走你农场的一部分，你会卖吗？

I want you to pretend you have a farm, and a data center would like to pay you $26,000,000 to sell a part of your farm?

你会收下这笔钱吗？

Would you take the money?

我希望能说不会。

I'd like to think that the answer would be no.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

比如说，要是真有人出价两千六百万，那再说吧。

Like, somebody offer me $26,000,000, and then we'll see.

你懂的。

You know?

没真有人开口，谁说得准呢。

Like, it's hard to know until someone's actually made the offer.

不过要明确一点，你刚才暗示的这个高调案例，答案是拒绝。

But just to be clear, as you're sort of implying here, we have a high profile story where the answer was no.

事情发生在肯塔基州的一个女性身上。

It was a woman in Kentucky.

她家有一块一千二百英亩的家族农场。

She has a 1,200 acre family farm.

我是说，这农场是她家祖上传下来的。

I mean, it's a farm owned by her family.

不过一千二百英亩，恐怕已经不能算普通家族农场了。

I guess 1,200 acres is probably not a family farm at that point.

但他们明确说了不干。

But they they basically said, no.

我们不会拿这两千六百万美元，来我们地头上建数据中心。

We're not taking this $26,000,000 to build a data center on our property.

安东尼，你绝对猜不到我们和律师团队谈成了什么。

Well, you'll never guess what we were able to clear with our legal team, Anthony.

支票就在这儿呢。

But we have the check right here.

现在该拿出实际行动了，别光说不练。

So it's time to put up or shut up.

我得

I need to

找一千二百英亩的地来卖。

find 1,200 acres to sell.

我觉得有意思的是，这个故事里主角是个八十二岁的伊达·哈德斯顿，挺有画面感的，你知道吧。

I think I mean, I think what's interesting about this story I mean, it's just sort of colorful that it's, you know, this 82 year old Ida Huddleston.

而且我觉得，这也反映出反对建设数据中心的呼声正在逐渐凝聚。

And and I think also, but it it illustrates how opposition to data center construction seems to be coalescing.

当然，这只是一个家庭，也许他们对这片农场、这片土地有着深厚的情感联系，或者其他原因。

And I think that I mean, obviously, this is one family, maybe they have a deep connection to this farm, to this land, or whatever.

但很明显，反对新建数据中心的声音在左右两派都有出现，不是单纯保守派或自由派的问题，而是两边都有某些政客，以及那些恰好经营受影响业务的普通人。

But it it feels like also that the opposition to building new data centers, you're seeing that on both the left and the right, and and it's not something where it's just conservatives or just liberals, but but sort of certain kinds of politicians on both sides and then just sort of, you know, people who happen to own businesses that are affected.

是的。

Yeah.

就拿我所在的图森来说，这里关于数据中心项目的争议一直很多，不过原因不一样，不是因为哪家的农场，而是资源问题。

I mean, in Tucson, where I am, there's been a lot of controversy around data center project here because of a different issue, not someone's family farm, but resources.

具体来说，是水资源的问题。

So specifically, water resources.

我们已经经历了很长一段时间的干旱。

We have been in a drought for a really long time.

我们身处沙漠地带。

We're in the desert.

数据中心该建在这里吗？

Do data centers belong here?

但我觉得，就像你提到的，这反映了一个更大的趋势，很多人其实心里明白。

But I think, like you mentioned, it speaks to a larger trend here where I think people are like, sure.

我们用科技，但这个地方对我来说意义非凡，这是实实在在的生活。

We use tech, but this is something I have a deep connection to, and this is real.

你要求我允许一个跟我毫无关系的、冷冰冰的盒子，就杵在我家地盘上，去服务别的公司或别的目的。

And what you're asking is for me to allow in my community or in my land a box, a, you know, a physical object that sits there that I don't have any connection to and is servicing some other company or purpose.

我觉得很多人就是在抵制这种做法。

And I think people are pushing back on that.

挺好的，有些社区并不是单纯反对数据中心，而是开始认真思考：这些公司真能给我们带来实际好处吗？

And it's kind of nice to see some communities not to be anti data center here, but for communities to kind of recognize and start asking, are these companies coming in here really actually going to provide benefit for us or not?

是的。

Yeah.

某种程度上，这正是我们这个时代的写照。

In some ways, this is like tales of this time.

对吧？

Right?

这种事情在很多其他地方都发生过，不只是科技公司，还有其他大型企业集团。

Like, this has happened in so many other places from so many other not just tech companies, but other big conglomerates.

我觉得有意思的是，我们听到的这个2600万美元的数据，恰恰说明了AI相关的炒作有多离谱。

What I think is interesting here is that the amount that we have heard reported, this $26,000,000, is another data point of just how exaggerated all this stuff has gotten with AI.

我记得我以前住在奥斯汀东边的时候，SpaceX和The Boring Company就开始大量收购那里的农田，搞的格局跟我们现在看到的很像，就是为了建一些设施，包括现在那个星链工厂。

You know, like, my my brain goes back to when I lived in Austin, East Of Austin, SpaceX and The Boring Company started buying up a whole bunch of farmland out there, putting a pretty similar dynamic into play as we're seeing here in order to build out some facilities there, including what is now the Starling factory.

但他们当时根本没被开出2600万美元的价码。

But this, you know, they were not being offered $26,000,000.

他们拿到的报价，也就是土地价值的1.5倍到2倍左右，就这么回事。

They were being offered, you know, 50% above the the value of their land, a 100% above, you know, things like that.

所以这又是一个例子，说明这些公司为了扩张自己的AI帝国，简直到了不计代价的地步。

And so this is just another another place where we get to see just how crazy some of these companies are about trying to pursue at at literally any cost expansion of their AI empires.

这正好让我们聊聊其他一些交易。

Well, that's the perfect segue to talk about a bunch of other deals.

今天这期节目，我们要聊聊竞争对手Kalshi和Polymarket居然投资了同一家公司或基金，还有三笔无人机交易，以及Kleiner Perkins全面押注AI的事。

So on the show today, we're gonna talk about how rivals Kalshi and Polymarket actually invested in the same company or fund, a trio of drone deals, and Kleiner Perkins going all in on AI.

这事儿其实一点都不意外。

Big surprise there.

接着我们会聊聊Sora和Meta的双重判决结果。

And then we're gonna get into the end of Sora and Meta's dual verdicts.

我想先说说，为什么Kalshi和Polymarket会参与同一个项目。

I wanna start off with talking about why Kalshi and Polymarket are involved in the same deal.

安东尼，这到底是怎么回事？

Anthony, what happened there?

对。

Right.

这是一家新成立的风险投资基金，叫Five C Capital，他们的目标是支持其他做预测市场的初创公司。

So this is a new VC fund called Five c Capital, and I the think goal is to back, you know, other kind of prediction market startups.

具体怎么操作我也不太清楚，但他们正在募集3500万美元，Kalshi和Polymarket的两位CEO都参与了投资。这事儿引起了不少人关注，因为说实话，我也是最近才知道，这两位CEO其实彼此特别特别讨厌对方。

I don't know exactly what that's gonna look like, but they're raising a $35,000,000 fund, and both the CEO of Kalshi and Polymarket are among the investors in that, which I think got a lot of people's attention because and I I actually didn't know this until recent weeks, but, apparently, those two CEOs really, really, really do not like each other.

对。

Yeah.

确实如此。

They don't.

不过我有个问题想问你。

And I have a question, though, for you.

其实是想问你们俩。

And I for for both of you.

我有点好奇，这笔钱是投进一个专门投资其他预测市场初创公司的基金里。

I'm wondering, like, so this is going into a fund that's going to invest in other prediction market startups.

那这个市场里，预测市场初创公司还有多少生存空间呢？

How much room in the market is there for prediction market startups?

也就是说，到底能有多少家这样的公司存活下来，并且做成 viable 的生意？

Like, how can how many can exist and and be viable businesses?

这基金听起来挺奇怪的。

This just seems like an odd fund.

我是说，有些已经存在的市场，你能下注的内容变得特别小众，虽然他们不叫它赌博，但很难想象还有很大的发展空间。

I mean, some of these some of these markets that already exist have gotten so niche with what you're able to bet on, you know, they wouldn't call it betting, but that it's hard to imagine there being a ton of room.

我觉得，促成这两位纯粹为了投机而走到一起的一个因素是，他们现在面临不少反弹和压力。

One thing that I think, you know, has brought these two people together as pure speculation here is, you know, I think they're facing a lot of blowback and and and some heat.

我是说，我们看到一些州已经采取了一些监管行动。

I mean, we've seen some regulatory action be taken up by some states.

美国还有一些州检察长，我觉得他们真的想介入，去做联邦政府出于各种原因显然不想做的事。

There's some some attorneys general, I think, around The United States who really feel like they wanna step in and and do what the federal government clearly doesn't, you know, feel interested in doing for a number of reasons.

所以，这两位CEO以及他们的公司投入的资金越多，这个生态系统就越能壮大。这或许能让他们稍微有点底气，即便不能彻底打消反对声音，至少也能像加密货币和人工智能领域那样，在几年内组建起一个联盟，然后站出来说：其实我们愿意接受监管。

And so the more money that both of these CEOs and their companies since we're to put into this ecosystem and really build it into what looks like an ecosystem, maybe it gives them a bit more cover to, if not blunt some of that opposition, then maybe put themselves in a position like we saw crypto, like we've seen AI, where they can stand up as a sort of coalition in a year or two and say, hey, we actually wanna be regulated.

比如，他们会提出自己认为合理的监管路径。

Like, here's how we think it should go.

所以我觉得这是其中的一个考量，也是他们之所以愿意在一定程度上缓和关系、放下身段的原因之一。

And and so I I could see that being an aspect of this here and and one reason why they're in some capacity burying the hatchet a little bit.

确实如此。

Yeah.

说到市场规模，现在看起来变化很大，完全取决于监管政策。别忘了，Polymarket 目前在美国是不能合法使用的。

When we talk about the size of the market, I mean, it it seems really variable and dependent on regulation right now because, I mean, as a reminder, Polymarket is not, you know, you can't legally use it in The United States right now.

就在几周前，Kalshi 在亚利桑那州被起诉了，因为他们声称自己不是赌博平台，而是预测市场，跟赌博完全不一样。

And, you know, I think in in just a couple weeks ago, you know, Kalshi is now facing these charges in Arizona because I think they've essentially said, oh, we're not a gambling platform, you know, we're a predictions market, and that's completely different.

但现在监管机构明确说：不，这其实就是赌博。

And regulators are now saying, no, that no, it's gambling.

所以，未来可能有两种走向：一种是人们能对各种各样的事情做这种预测，另一种则是这类行为会被严格限制。

And so there's definitely one future where you can imagine that there's all kinds of different kind you know, things that that people could make these kinds of bets on, and then another future where really that that kind of stuff is much, much more constrained.

我觉得这里还涉及一种意识形态，或者你也可以叫它哲学立场。

Think there's also, like, an ideological element here or or, I guess, you could call it philosophical.

我们看到，支持这些公司的投资人，还有平台的创始人，经常说他们的技术和平台能帮人们更快地逼近真相，比任何其他方式都更直接。

But we've seen a lot of talk from the people who have backed these companies all that already exist, and a lot of people who run them talk about their platforms and the technology they've developed for them as sort of things that can distill the truth and that can bring people the truth of whatever you're talking about faster than anything else.

这基本上就是他们的核心宣传点。

It's like, you know, that's basically kind of the pitch.

所以，越多合法性和资金投入到这类公司里，整个生态的规模就会越大，也能让他们更有底气去坚持这种说法——哪怕我觉得这个说法其实挺单薄的。

And so the I think the more, again, the legitimacy and money and everything that gets put into other companies that are sort of doing the thing, it just it just broadens the side of of the ecosystem as it is and and maybe gives them a little bit more ground to stand on, not to mix metaphors, to to try to keep making that kind of claim, you know, as as thin as I might think it is.

你们俩有没有预测一下，监管方面会怎么发展？

Do either one of you have a prediction in terms of how this is gonna go on, like, the regulatory?

话中有话。

Pun intended.

是的。

Yeah.

我是说，监管这块儿最终会怎么收场？

As to where this is gonna go on the regulatory end?

因为他们的论点是，这根本不算赌博。

Because the the argument here is, like, this isn't gambling.

我觉得，在亚利桑那州这种博彩业特别发达的地方，显然不希望有新的竞争者出现。

I think, like, in the state of Arizona and other states where there's a really strong gaming industry, you see clearly, like, not wanting to have competition.

我想知道，你们有没有预判，他们能不能成功？咱们私下也可以打个赌。

And I'm wondering if they're gonna able if if you have any predictions as to whether and we can bet on it offline.

明白吗？

Okay?

至于你对监管方面会怎么发展怎么看。

As to what you think is gonna happen on the regulatory side.

这些公司背后有不少财力雄厚、影响力大的人支持。

I mean, these companies have, like, some pretty wealthy and powerful people who are sort of backing them financially.

而且再说，这件事里还带着某种意识形态色彩。就目前联邦政府的执政风格来看，我不会说他们高枕无忧，但至少在接下来六个月里，不太可能突然迎来一记重拳。

And I and and again, there's, like, kind of an ideological component to this that makes it seem like given the administration that we have at the federal level right now, they're I wouldn't say they're untouchable, but they there is I think there is reason to believe that there won't be some sort of giant hammer that gets swung down on them in the next six months.

不过我觉得各州已经开始关注了，比如亚利桑那州就提起了刑事指控。

But I do think the state's taking an interest here and coming after them, you know, in Arizona with with criminal charges.

这可能和你之前说的、那些和赌博关联紧密的公司是一类情况。

That may line up with the ones that are heavily weighted to gambling, like you said already.

但现在各州总检察长普遍有种感觉，尤其是那些在意识形态上与联邦政府立场相左的州，觉得必须站出来行动了——毕竟SEC的执法力度已经大不如前。

But, you know, I do think there is there there is a general sense among attorneys general right now, especially in states that are maybe ideologically opposed to the federal government of, you know, we need to stand up and act because, you know, the SEC enforcement is down.

其他那些负责打击白领犯罪的机构，也都在陆续收手。

You know, all these other agencies are are backing off of enforcement of white collar crime and and things like it.

所以我觉得这些州迟早会出问题，等会儿我们聊到Meta的时候再细说。

And so I I think there's gonna be trouble in these states, and we'll talk about it later when we talk about Meta.

你知道吗，我也特别关注这一点，因为我们确实听过不少令人震惊的故事，关于人们怎么亏了钱的。

You know, I'm also really interested if we do, because we've heard some really terrible stories of of, you know, how people have lost money.

还有很多人对这些公司如何‘解决’那些预测结果感到愤怒，这让我忍不住想，未来一年里，会不会在州或联邦层面出现大量民事诉讼，给这类公司带来麻烦——就像之前金属案那样，直接指控产品存在缺陷。

And there's also just people who are angry about how some of these these predictions, quote, unquote, get resolved by these companies that, you know, it makes me wonder what kinds of civil lawsuits we might see at the state or federal level over the next year that could give companies like this some trouble if they're going the route of what we saw with the metal lawsuits where you're actually sort of alleging like a product defect.

另一个我想聊的话题，是最近关于无人机的交易和活动数量。

Another topic I wanna get into is the number of deals and activity we've seen around drones.

无人机其实早就存在了，但我们现在开始看到一些初创公司要么在融资，要么真的进入了新市场，这让我觉得特别有意思，毕竟无人机早就不是新鲜事了。

And drones have been around forever, but we're starting to see these various startups either raising money or actually, like, going into new markets, which I find really interesting because drones have literally been around.

我觉得它们已经存在很久了。

I feel like they've been around forever.

第一个我想提的，是我一直关注的公司，叫Zipline。

And the first one, and it's a company I've written a lot about, is Zipline.

他们刚又融资了两亿美元，之前还刚融了六亿美元。

They raised another $200,000,000, and they just raised 600,000,000.

不过还有几家规模小一点的初创公司。

But then there were a couple of other smaller startups.

我不确定你们俩有没有注意到。

And I'm wondering if the two of you have I don't know.

你们觉得奇怪吗？无人机突然又开始融资了，而且似乎在实际应用场景上重新有了势头。

Is that surprising to you that, like, suddenly drones are raising money again, and there seems to be this, like, new momentum for the use product use case event.

我觉得不奇怪，因为现在确实有几件事在发生。

I don't think so because we are seeing there's a couple things happening here.

对吧？

Right?

一方面，我觉得这项技术还在持续取得有趣的突破。

One is I think we're still seeing some really interesting technological advancement in this technology.

比如Brinc这家公司，我们这周刚写过它，现在终于开始公开谈论自己，还推出了产品。

I think Brinc, which is one of these companies that sort of that we wrote about this week, that is really starting to talk about itself for the first time and launching its a product.

我觉得这里确实有真正的技术进步，可能一些对无人机领域只做表面观察的人，以前以为这方面的潜力早就耗尽了。

I think there's some genuine technological progress there that maybe some casual observers of the drone space thought, you know, had been tapped out before.

我们现在说的是一种速度更快、能搭载各种物品的无人机，甚至包括纳洛酮。

We're talking about a drone that can go much faster and that can carry all sorts of different things, including Narcan.

他们基本上是在把它当作警用直升机的替代品来推广。

They're basically pitching it as a replacement for, like, police helicopters.

我觉得这部分确实在发生。

So I think there's some of that that's happening.

还有像Zipline这样的应用，人们可能以为无人机配送只是社会边缘的小规模尝试，这没错，但……

And also just applications, like Zipline is not, I think, what people people might think of drone delivery as a thing that's happening on the margins of society these days, which is basically true.

不过Zipline通过在商业设施里设置专用起降点的方式，是个很新颖的思路，这种应用方式我们以前还真没见过。

But I think the way that Zipline does it with these kind of, you know, portals into the commercial facilities is is a really interesting concept that is, like, an example of a company figuring out how to apply the technology that we haven't really seen before.

所以这方面也很有看点。

So I think there's that side.

另外，监管环境也在放宽，给了更多实验空间。

And then there's also, you know, the regulation side where we're seeing freer regulation that allows for more experimentation here.

同时，监管也在把像大疆这样的竞争对手挤出去——它曾经是全球尤其是美国市场的主导者，但现在在这里几乎没法玩了。

We're seeing and then we're also seeing regulation that's pushing out competitors like DJI that had been basically the dominant player globally and especially in The US, but is now kind of a nonstarter here.

我觉得这些因素正汇聚在一起，让这个领域现在出现了很多真正不一样的变化。

And so I think those things are really coming together to to put us in a place where there's actually a lot of different things happening in this space.

现在轮到这些公司真正证明这能做成一门正经生意了。

And and now it's time for these companies to really prove it out as as an actual business.

是的。

Yeah.

我想提一下，很多人一想到无人机，就会想到那些拍视频的，或者参加灯光秀的，用途挺特定的。

I do wanna mention that, like, I think a lot of times when people think of drones, they think of the drones that you see that are, you know, capturing video, and they have a very specific use case or the ones that are used in the, you know, light shows.

Zipline 的无人机完全是另一种类型，而且还是全自动的。

Zipline is a very different kind of craft, and it's also autonomous.

他们已经和一些其他公司一起，获得了所谓的‘自主飞行’认证，也就是说不需要实时目视操控。

So they have been able to, along with some others, get certification for what they call autonomy where you don't have to visually see it.

操作员不用亲眼看到无人机，也能远程控制它。

So you don't have to have an operator being able to physically see the drone to be able to operate.

这让他们得以进入一些全新的市场。

And that's really allowed them to break into some new markets.

我觉得 Zipline 最特别的地方，就在于它做的是送货上门这个场景。

What I think is most interesting about Zipline in specifics is that use case of home delivery.

他们的起点是在非洲，专门运送医疗物资，尤其是血液。

I mean, their background was starting in Africa, delivering medical supplies, specifically blood.

在美国，他们看到家庭配送市场增长很快，人们下单更频繁，使用次数也越来越多。

And in The US, they've are seeing, like, a lot of growth on home delivery markets and specifically, like, people ordering more stuff and multiple using it multiple times.

一旦用户用上了，就再也离不开，几乎天天都在用。

So, like, once they're hooked, they are they're really hooked, and they're using it all the time.

对我来说，这个应用场景特别有意思，也看得出是哪些技术进步让他们能进入这个市场。

So to me, that's, like, a really interesting use case, and you see the techno technological advances that have allowed them to kind of go into this market.

是的。

Yeah.

听上去挺有意思的，因为这种想法早就被提过很多年了，但现在看来，确实有各种社会和科技因素让它们终于开始真正起飞，跟十年前、十五年前不一样了。

It's interesting to hear about because it it is something that, you know, has been pitched for for so long, and and it does sound like there's a bunch of different, you know, societal and technological reasons why maybe, you know, now it it really is starting to take off versus, you know, ten or fifteen years ago.

我作为纽约人，虽然纽约在很多方面并不算典型的美国市场，但我还是会想，如果这些公司——特别是专注消费者宅配的——真的成功了，会是什么样子。

I I think also that I, as a New Yorker, which, you know, is not necessarily a typical kind of American market in a lot of ways, but as as I wonder, you know, about sort of what it might actually look like if these companies, particularly the ones that are looking at some kind of like consumer home delivery, are successful.

因为在纽约，电动自行车和外卖应用看起来只是个小变化，却已经彻底改变了城市的街道面貌。

Because, you know, in New York with e bikes, that seems like a relatively in e bikes and delivery apps seems like a relatively small change, but that has, like, dramatically reshaped, like, the street landscape in New York City.

如果真有大量无人机在空中飞来飞去送餐之类的东西，那影响可就大得多了。

And so, like, this seems like it would be exponentially more transformative if you actually suddenly had a bunch bunch of drones flying around delivering food or whatever.

确实。

Yeah.

在纽约市的话。

In New York City.

那场面可太震撼了。

That would be crazy to see.

纽约市有个领域，我觉得无人机特别有潜力，就是那家拿了两千万融资的初创公司，叫Lucid Bots。

One area in New York City where I think it could benefit though is this other startup that raised 20,000,000, and that's Lucid Bots.

他们用机器人和无人机来擦窗户。

And they're doing using bots and drones for window washing.

你想想，摩天大楼外头那些悬在半空擦窗的人，多危险啊，要是能让机器人接替这份工作，那就太好了。

And the idea was, you know, we've all seen in, like, the skyscrapers, these, like, human beings, like, perched outside, which fairly dangerous you know, pretty dangerous job, these bots taking over that task.

我觉得在大城市里，无人机更可能先在清洁这类工作上普及，至于上门送货，我觉得反而是郊区更合适。

And to me, that seems like an area where you would see drone activity in larger cities, whereas the home delivery stuff, I see more in suburban areas.

我想问的是，看看这些不同的应用场景，还有技术的成熟程度，再想想那些早就进入这个领域的企业，虽然它们已经起步，但远没达到市场主导的地位。

My question is, you know, looking at at these different applications and the the maturation of the technology and everything and thinking about how there are other players who have been in this space that that have carved out maybe the beginnings of businesses, but have certainly haven't dominated the market.

我说的是像Skydio这样的初创公司，还有像亚马逊和谷歌这样的大科技公司。

I'm talking like Skydio on kind of the startup end, but Amazon in particular, and Google on the on the larger tech company end.

想到这些，再看看亚马逊上周突然收购了两家机器人公司，你们觉得这个领域很快也会出现类似的情况吗？

Thinking about that, and then thinking about how Amazon just, like, kind of out of nowhere snapped up two robotics companies in the last week, Do you guys think we'll see something happen like that in this space soon?

尤其是考虑到亚马逊自己的无人机项目至今为止表现并不理想。

Especially knowing that Amazon has not had maybe the best rollout with its own drone program so far.

所以我在想，是不是它们看中了这些其他技术或应用场景中的某些东西，突然觉得特别有吸引力。

And so I wonder if there is something that they see in these, you know, these specific other technologies and applications of it that that suddenly gets appetizing for them.

我觉得这其实也牵扯到一个问题，就是我们刚才提到的这些融资项目，背后的企业瞄准的用途差别其实挺大的，这某种程度上是好事，说明应用场景非常多元。但比如窗玻璃清洗，这个用途听起来确实挺有意思。

I feel like that also touches on this question of, like, these, you know, funding rounds that we're talking about are for companies that are going after fairly different use cases, and that in some ways seems promising, because it suggests, hey, there's so many different kinds of applications here, but when you talk about window washing, for example, that seems like an interesting use case.

不过说实话，我觉得长期来看，这种公司很难独立做大做强，很多这类企业最终都会被亚马逊或者其他大公司吞并，而亚马逊显然正打算这么做。

It also it's sort of hard for me to, like, see that that is, like, a big standalone company in the long term, and there are a lot of these companies gonna get all rolled up by Amazon or or some other company, and it seems like that certainly, that that that Amazon is going to try to do that.

而且我可不只是说亚马逊。

Well and I wouldn't say just Amazon.

比如说，我能看到Lucid Bots被某家大型企业收购，那家公司可能做物业管理之类的业务，想展示自己的技术优势，又不想自己研发机器人和无人机，干脆直接买下这样的公司。

Like, I could see, for instance, Lucid Bots being snapped up by some other large sort of corporation that handles, let's say, property management or, you know, the the and and they wanna show that they're you know, have a tech edge, and maybe they don't want to develop their own bots and drones, and so they would buy a company like this.

Lucid Bots看起来确实是个很合适的收购目标。

Like, Lucid Bots seems like ripe a ripe target for an acquisition.

我觉得Zipline不太可能被收购。

Zipline, I don't think that they'll be acquired.

他们已经做得太大了。

I think that they've gotten far too large.

他们上一次估值是在今年一月，当时估值高达76亿美元。

The last time they were valued, which was back in January, there was something like $7,600,000,000 valuation.

我觉得他们不太可能被收购。

I don't think they're gonna get acquired.

但那些规模小一点的公司，就完全有可能。

But some of these smaller companies, absolutely.

而且收购方未必是我们第一反应想到的亚马逊，可能是一些更大的综合性集团，他们看中的只是这项技术，想用它来增强自己现有的业务，不管是清洁、擦窗，还是Guardian或者警用直升机这类应用。

And I could see it not necessarily being what we might initially think, like an Amazon, But some of these other just larger conglomerates that could see just want the technology to build out whatever to augment whatever other application that they that they see, whether it's, you know, cleaning or, you know, window cleaning or, you know, the Guardian or police helicopter thing.

我觉得会有很多公司纷纷入场。

You know, I could see a bunch of different companies jumping in.

七百亿的估值对于收购Zipline来说确实不低，但现在的风投机构手里确实有钱。

Well, a 7,000,000,000 valuation might be a lot to swallow with an acquisition like Zipline, but, you know, we definitely know that VC firms have a lot of money these days.

我觉得我们这周的最后一个消息是凯鹏华盈新募集了35亿美元。

And I think that our last deal of the week is Kleiner Perkins raising 3 and a half billion dollars of new money.

其中10亿美元投向早期基金，25亿美元投向成长期基金。

1,000,000,000 of that is going into an early stage fund and 2 and a half billion going towards growth stage fund.

我想问问你们有没有留意到，最近这些基金募集了多少钱？

And I just wanna were you guys have you been paying attention to how much money a lot of these firms have been raising?

我知道风投机构募资就是为了投到初创公司里去，这事儿我们都知道。

I know this is not, you know, VC firms go out and raise money to go around and turn around and and put into startups.

但现在AI这么热，数据中心和其他领域资金涌入，这些基金最近都搞了挺大的融资。

But, you know, with such fervor around AI and and all the money that's going into data centers and everything else, we've seen some pretty big raises lately from some of these funds.

我只是好奇你们有没有关注这些动态。

And I'm just kinda curious if you guys have been keeping an eye on that.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，大家通常关注OpenAI融了多少钱，但更值得关注的是这些基金为了投资这些私营公司，到底在筹集多少资金。

I mean, I think a lot of times people pay attention to, like, what OpenAI is raising, but it's notable to look at what these funds are ready raising in order to participate in in investing in these private companies.

Thrive Capital筹集了100亿美元。

So Thrive Capital, 10,000,000,000.

Andreessen Horowitz筹集了大约150亿美元。

Andreessen Horace Horowitz, something like 15,000,000,000.

Founders Fund，我记得最近刚确认，筹集了60亿美元。

Founders Fund, I believe we confirmed recently, 6,000,000,000.

这些是顶级基金，我一年前还觉得它们可能会慢慢退出舞台。

These are the mega funds, which I thought a year or two ago might fade away.

但它们一点都没退，反而更强势了。

They have not faded at all.

它们现在就在那里。

They are here.

不过我觉得，能筹到这种钱的公司其实寥寥无几。

I think that it's a very small handful of companies that are able to raise this type of money, though.

我觉得这也反映了初创企业和风投市场里一种挺奇怪的现象，可能也折射出更广泛的经济现状——很多事情都不太乐观。

I think it also speaks to this sort of strange dynamic in the start up market and the VC market, which maybe also just reflects this broader economic dynamic where it feels like a lot of things are not going great.

但偏偏有大量资金涌向人工智能领域。

But there's all this money going into AI.

正是这些资金，才让整个局面没有崩盘。

And that's kind of the thing that's keeping everything afloat.

所以一方面，你会觉得，哇，这些基金居然只投人工智能。

And so on the one hand, it feels like, oh, wow, you're just raising a bunch of funds that are only supposed to go to AI.

但我怀疑，如果你试着筹一个通用型基金，有限合伙人可能反而会更难应付。

But I wonder if actually if you just try to raise a generalist fund, you know, LPs would actually have given you a harder time.

但只要你一提‘人工智能’这几个字，事情立马就顺了。

But if you say the magic words AI, then it actually goes better.

我也不太确定。

I I don't know.

这纯粹是我个人的猜测。

This is just purely speculation on my part.

但这让我开始思考，等我们聊到具体主题时，或许可以更深入讨论一下——我们现在到底处于AI周期的哪个阶段。

But it it also makes me wonder about and and maybe we'll talk about we'll talk about this more when we get into themes, like, where exactly we are in the AI cycle.

直觉上，大家会觉得，钱当然会源源不断地流向AI领域。

Like, maybe you know, obviously, it feels intuitive that, yes, of course, money will just keep continuing to go into AI.

但也有理由让人怀疑，我们可能正接近这段泡沫期的尾声，到2026年还这么大规模押注AI，未必是明智之举。

But, like, there are also reasons to think maybe we're kind of coming towards the end of this kind of bubble period, and investing that much into AI in 2026 might not actually be a great bet.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得不能以为只要一提‘AI’，钱就会自动从天而降，掉进他们的账户。

I mean so I wanted to push back on this idea, which is, like, if they just say the word AI, then magically, money is printed and lands into their coffers.

我觉得，未来或者现在就已经开始有人对这种想法产生抵触了，毕竟一开始，风投们确实特别热衷于追逐新潮玩意儿。

Like, I I I think that there's going to be some, if not in the future already, some resistance to that idea because people, you know, initially were like, you know, VCs love, like, a new shiny thing.

AI无疑是其中之一。

AI is absolutely one of them.

我们看到，正是技术上的进步维持了他们的兴趣，让他们不仅能为自己的基金筹到钱，还能把大量资金投向各种初创公司。

And we're seeing what's, I think, kept their interest and allow them to raise money for their own funds, but also to put a bunch of money into kind of random startups is that we've seen the technological progress.

想想过去三年，变化有多大。

Just think about, like, the last three years, how much has changed.

我觉得正是这一点保持了他们的热情。

I think that's kept their interest.

不过，当我跟投资者交流时，很多时候他们关注的都是实际应用型AI，也就是现实世界中的应用。

However, I when I'm speaking to investors, granted a lot of times, it's more applied AI, so in the physical world.

但我发现他们提出的问题越来越尖锐，不再随便乱投钱了。

But I'm seeing them ask a lot tougher questions and not just, like, throwing money at anything.

我敢肯定，当大型基金试图为下一轮募资数十亿美元时，他们也会面临同样的质疑。

And I have to imagine that when companies, big funds, are trying to raise, you know, multibillion dollar funds for their next round that they're getting the same kind of questions.

是的。

Yeah.

说到这点，确实存在一种情况，那就是你几乎可以用AI来包装任何东西。

And to that point, like, there is an element of, you know, you can kind of AI anything.

我说这话有点带点调侃的意思，但也不完全是开玩笑。

I'd I I mean that a little bit, like, sort of, you know, snarkily, but also not really.

我们看到的，就像你提到的，人工智能被用在机器人、自动驾驶这些领域，这些方向确实需要大量资金支持，而这些基金正好能派上用场。

I mean, they're we're seeing everything from, like you said, artificial intelligence being applied to robotics and and autonomous vehicles and things like that, which you could see benefiting from people, you know, at these funds raising all of this money to deploy.

还有像SpaceX，它和xAI合并了，现在某种程度上已经变成一家人工智能公司了——当然，这取决于你信不信这一点。

But also things like SpaceX, you know, merging with x AI and and, you know, SpaceX now being kind of an AI company in some weird way depending on how much you believe that.

我觉得，这不一定会全变成手机上的生成式AI应用之类的东西。

So, like, I I don't think this is all necessarily going to, you know, generative AI apps for people's phones or whatever.

但其中很大一部分，很可能会往更偏向实体的方向发展。

But a good chunk of this could wind up going in that more physical direction.

如果是这样，那要让这类技术真正跑起来，一开始就需要的资金门槛就高得多了。

And and if that's the case, then, you know, you're already talking sort of higher table stakes for how much money is required to make technologies like that work to begin with.

在更广泛的AI行业里，还有一件挺有意思的事：像OpenAI这样的公司，融了大笔资金后，尝试了各种不同的方向。

There's also been a really interesting thing happening in the very broad AI industry, which is companies that have raised a lot of funds, like OpenAI, tried a bunch of things.

所以，这不只是简单地投资一堆AI公司那么简单。

So it's not just about investing in a lot of AI companies.

还有不少AI公司尝试各种项目，结果有些项目就悄无声息地消失了。

It's also AI companies trying a bunch of things, and some of those things disappearing.

这就引出了我想今天聊的Sora。

And that brings me to Sora, which I wanna talk about today.

某种程度上，这其实并不让我意外。

And this is, in some ways, not very surprising to me.

但我还是想听听你们的看法。

But I wanna get your guys' opinion.

Anthony，Sora曾经被我们列为手机上最诡异的应用之一，现在却要关闭了。

Anthony, Sora was, as one of our headlines, one of the creepiest apps on your phone and now it's shutting down.

这背后到底发生了什么？

So what exactly is happening here?

说白了，就跟你说的一样，就是Sora这件事。

I mean, I it pretty much is what you just said, Sora.

对。

Mhmm.

这个应用要关闭了。

The app is shutting down.

不过我觉得值得提一下，问题不只是这个应用本身——至少对我来说，这个应用特别没吸引力，我觉得其他人也一样，因为它搞了个没有人的社交网络，听起来挺荒唐的。

Although I think it's worth highlighting that it's not just the app because, I mean, the app was particularly unappealing to me at least, and I think to other people because it was this idea of a social network without people where you're like, great.

说白了，就是一堆树懒在那儿晃悠。

It's just, nothing but sloth, essentially.

但抛开这个应用不谈，OpenAI 似乎正在全面收缩它的视频项目。

But beyond the app, it seems like OpenAI is basically winding down pretty much everything it's doing with video.

根据《华尔街日报》的报道，这背后其实是 OpenAI 为可能的上市做准备，现在重点放在企业级产品、编程工具这些商业产品上，像这种面向消费者的社交应用，还有更广泛的视频业务，目前根本不是优先事项。

Certainly according to The Wall Street Journal, broke some of this news, that it's really about this idea that OpenAI is in advance of potentially going public, really trying to focus on business products, enterprise products, programming products, and the idea of sort of this consumer social app and more broadly video is is not a priority right now.

是的。

Yeah.

我从来没用过这个东西。

I never really used this.

这个想法本身，就让我觉得挺反感的，原因有很多。

The idea of it, you know, turned me off for a number of different reasons.

这其实是个很好的提醒，提醒我们OpenAI并没有什么需要被贬低的地方。

And, you know, it was it was a good reminder that OpenAI and this I don't mean this, you know, to to knock them down in in really any way.

但这也提醒了他们自己，ChatGPT之所以成功，背后其实有一部分是运气成分。

But, like, I I think there this was a reminder probably for them internally at the the element of luck that was in how successful ChatGPT became.

对吧？

Right?

显然，它确实有某种价值，能打动用户。

Like, clearly, there is something that is valuable there to people.

我绝不会否定这一点，因为如果没有真正有效的东西，不可能达到他们公布的那种使用规模。

I don't wanna take away from that because you do not get to the usage numbers that we've heard reported from them without there being something that is working right.

更难得的是，它还能持续多年，不断进化，始终对用户保持意义。

And and even more so, that it's been kept up over a number of years and and sort of developed into something that stays meaningful to people.

但Sora刚推出时，大家有种感觉：我们刚刚做出了史上最成功的消费产品，现在又要再来一次，还要拉上迪士尼之类的大牌。

But there was kind of an element of Sora when it came out of, like, you know, we built the most successful consumer product ever, and now we're doing it again, and we're gonna bring in Disney and all this stuff.

而这次的状况，恰恰狠狠提醒了我们：不可能每次都能轻松直达巅峰，产品要想长久，必须让用户觉得它真有实际意义。

And I think this is just a really harsh reminder of, like, it's not always gonna be just an absolute shortcut to the top of, like, the greatest consumer products ever and that there really needs to be something that people feel like they're getting some meaning out of it for it to stick around.

是的。

Yeah.

我其实想给OpenAI点赞，就这个决定。

I actually wanna give OpenAI props for this decision.

因为我们有时候会调侃‘快速行动，打破常规’这种说法。

Because to me, we we sometimes make fun of the whole idea of, like, move fast and break things.

但我认为，那些能快速迭代、及时砍掉不成功产品、又不把这当成失败的公司，确实有其价值。

But I think that there is some value of companies that can iterate very quickly and then kill off products that are not working and not feel a sense of failure behind that.

我的意思是，如果看迪士尼那笔交易，确实损失了真金白银，那可是十亿美元的项目。

I mean, there was real money that was lost in in if you were to look at the deal with Disney that was, like, a billion dollar deal.

但我们没法知道具体情况，毕竟看不到他们的财务报表。

But if you look at and we don't have the insight into this because we're not seeing, you know, their balance sheets.

他们在这上面花了多少钱？长远来看，对公司到底值不值？

But what were they spending on this, and what was the long term value for the company?

当然，这一点我承认。

And I think that while sure.

挺有意思的是，看看他们能做出什么来。

It was, like, interesting to see what they could create.

他们决定关闭这个项目，在我看来，显示出一家AI实验室难得的成熟。

Their decision to shutter it to me showed a sign of maturity that was nice to see in an AI lab.

就OpenAI而言，这个决定和我们一直听到的他们的未来战略完全一致。

For in terms of, like, what it means for OpenAI, it seems, like, very consistent with everything that we've been hearing about their strategy going forward.

这并不像是对生成式AI，尤其是视频领域的未来造成重大打击。

It doesn't seem like a huge blow or anything like that in terms of how we think about the future of generative AI and particularly in video.

有意思的是，这时候正好有关于字节跳动的生成式AI模型CDance的报道。

And it's interesting because it also comes at this time that there's been reporting around CDance, which is the the ByteDance generative AI model.

还有消息说，这个项目被推迟了，因为遇到了工程和法律方面的难题，比如怎么把知识产权保护真正落实进去——而他们以前似乎没太当回事。

Also, there's reports that that's been delayed because there's sort of engineering and legal questions and basically, hey, can we build, like, IP protections into this, which apparently, they hadn't taken as seriously before.

所以现在是个清醒的时刻，人们终于意识到，之前那些夸张的说法，包括好莱坞一些人说的‘我们完了’，其实站不住脚。

And so it's this moment, this kind of reality check moment of, like, you know, that there were these really hyperbolic statements, including from people within Hollywood that there's, like, we're done.

现实没那么夸张，未来不可能只是打几个提示词，就能生成一部电影。

Like, this isn't you know, like, the future is just, typing in prompts and making feature films.

结果发现，由于各种技术和法律原因，这根本没那么容易，离真正实现还差得远呢。

And it turns out that for all kinds of technical and legal reasons, it is not that easy, and we are very, very far from that happening.

关于这一点，我觉得最后要提的是，这些决定似乎都是在富士西莫上任后才陆续出现的，她现在负责日常运营。

And the last thing I think we should say about this too is this is one of a number of decisions that appear to be happening after Fuji Simo came in and is and is sort of running the day to day operations.

这股变化对OpenAI来说影响巨大。

And, you know, that's just a huge dynamic that's changed inside of OpenAI.

随着我们离她被任命主导公司、决定这些消费级产品命运的时刻越来越远，回过头来看，就会更清楚地意识到，那真是这家公司的一个关键转折点——它名义上是家非营利机构，实际上又像家普通企业。

And I think the further we get away from that moment of of her sort of being tapped to to run the show, and especially these consumer products and decide the fate of them, the easier it'll be to look back at this moment in time and and and think about how big a moment that was for this company that's sort of a nonprofit, but also sort of a company.

这也彻底改变了公司未来的走向。

And and what how that alters the trajectory from here on out.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Absolutely.

这个观点说得真好。

That's a really good point.

我还想再挤一个话题进来。

I do wanna squeeze in one more topic for the show.

你可能记得几期之前，我们请了纽约州议员亚历克斯·博里斯来聊人工智能监管的问题。

And you might remember a few episodes ago, we had New York assemblyman, Alex Boris, on to talk about AI regulation.

当时有个问题提到，人工智能会像金融科技那样被严格监管，还是会像社交媒体一样放任自流。

And one of the questions that came up was if AI was going to get the fintech banking treatment of becoming highly regulated or if it was gonna be more unregulated like social media.

最近社交媒体这边倒是出了点新动向——也许未来社交媒体也没那么自由了，会开始受到更多约束。

And there's been an interesting sort of update on the social media side, which is maybe social media is actually gonna become a little bit more regulated in the future.

这跟上周新墨西哥州和洛杉矶针对Meta的两项判决有关。

And this is the dual verdicts that came against Meta this past week in New Mexico and LA.

另外得提一下，洛杉矶这起诉讼的判决对象不仅是Meta，还包括YouTube。

And then we should say that in the case of the LA lawsuit, it was a a verdict against both Meta and YouTube.

在洛杉矶的案子中，是一名匿名青少年提起的诉讼，她说这两家平台给她造成了严重伤害。

And in the LA case, it was basically an anonymous teenager suing and saying that both of these services had done her a lot of harm.

说到这跟监管问题的关联，我看到《纽约时报》有篇文章说，正因为联邦层面缺乏统一监管，陪审团可能开始填补这个空缺——也许我们最终等不到一个全国性的监管框架了。

And to your point about, like, how that ties into this regulation question, I saw this piece in the New York Times that was framing it as essentially that because there's this absence of like federal regulation, at least, maybe like juries are starting to step in, maybe we're not going to get this overall federal framework.

但结果只会看到一些实际的后果，比如巨额赔偿判决。

But instead, you're just going to see sort of consequences and and in the form of, like, financial verdict.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这里有个关键点，虽然有点专业，但正是这些判决之所以这样裁定、并且比以往任何对社交媒体公司的制约都更容易打动陪审团的原因——联邦层面讨论如何监管社交媒体时，很多时候都聚焦在言论自由上，也就是这些公司是否该为平台上发布的内容负责。

I think something that is important here that is, like, a little bit wonky, but but is at the core of why we saw these decisions come down in the way that they that they came down and and maybe why they're playing to juries better than any kind of sort of, you know, sort of check on social media companies that we've seen so far is I think a lot of the conversation at the federal level about how to regulate social media has, in many ways, rightly, always been about speech and whether or not you can hold these companies accountable for the speech that's on their platforms.

这确实非常棘手。

And that's just really tricky.

我个人觉得，第230条在某种程度上保护这一点很重要，因为如果没有它，就会引发连锁反应：如果平台必须对所有用户内容进行严格审查，那它们可能就无法像现在这样运作了。

And I think it you know, personally, I think it's important that that is protected in some ways by section two thirty because the you know, without that there, you run into this sort of snowball effect where, like, these companies won't exist in the way that we want them to exist or that they exist now if if they have to police the speech, all the speech on their platforms in the way that that would change things.

而在这里，我们是把这些公司及其产品视为危险且有缺陷的商品来对待。

Here, we're talking about treating these companies and the products they've made as sort of dangerous and defective.

我觉得原告和他们的律师很聪明，选择聚焦这一点，而不是去碰言论问题。

I think it was smart, you know, in in the plaintiff's case and the plaintiff's lawyers who brought these cases to focus on that and not focus on the speech.

因为言论问题实在太复杂了，赢下这种案子几乎不可能。

Because I the the speech is just it's too thorny an issue, and and I think a very, very hard case to win.

但他们选择的这条路，明显是更有胜算的。

Whereas the the direction they chose, you know, clearly, was winnable.

换句话说，这在两个不同州的案件中都取得了成功。

I mean, it was winnable in two different cases in two different states.

现在真正的问题是，这些案子可能会成为先例，还有很多其他人正准备提起类似的诉讼。

And and, you know, the real question now is, you know, these are these can be precedent setting cases, and there are many other people out there who are gonna try and bring similar cases.

很多人其实已经在等着出手了。

Many of them already waiting in the wings.

所以，单靠这几个案子，可能还不会真正改变这些公司的行为，但那些正在酝酿的案子就不一定了。

And so, you know, these alone might not be something that really change how these companies behave, but what's waiting in the wings could.

这让我想起烟草诉讼刚起步时的情景，其他有害产品也都是这么走过来的。

It's very reminiscent to me to the early days of how litigation around tobacco occurred, and you see the same thing with other sort of harmful products.

比如农药，或者像糖这类跟肥胖有关的食品。

So pesticides or even food in terms of, like, sugar, like obesity.

你总能看到这类大规模的集体诉讼。

You see these large class actions.

我特别想看看这件事的发展，安东尼，不知道你对此有什么看法？

What I'm really interested to see and, Anthony, I wonder I don't know if you have an opinion on this.

如果各州必须关注这个问题，虽然这些判决的金额并不高——事实上，我记得有Meta员工说过，三亿七千五百万的罚款根本不算什么，这点值得注意。

But if states have to be paying attention to this, and while these verdicts were not a lot of money, in fact, even, I believe, a Meta employee said the $375,000,000 penalty wasn't much, which is good to note.

各州得认真考虑这个问题，因为回想当年烟草诉讼的时候，很多州就是用和烟草公司达成的和解金来偿还债务，还用于学校和其他社会项目。

States have to be thinking about this because if you remember way back when with tobacco litigation, a lot of states used settlements with tobacco companies to pay down their debt and use it for programs within schools and other social programs.

你可以想象一种情况，Meta和YouTube肯定都不想看到这种情况发生。

And you can imagine a scenario which Meta doesn't want and YouTube doesn't want for sure.

但如果这些平台被认定对社会有害，一旦各州介入，就可能面临巨额罚款或和解金。

But if it's considered harmful to society, you could see some really large potential fines or settlements with these companies and if the states get involved.

没错。

Right.

那三亿七千五百万应该是新墨西哥州的案子，而洛杉矶那个案子，其实只是个别人提起的诉讼，金额大概只有三百万。

And, I mean, the 375,000,000, I I believe, was in the New Mexico case, whereas the the the Los Angeles case, which is really just, I think, an an individual, I think that was, like, 3,000,000.

没错。

Right.

没错。

So Yep.

对。

Yeah.

对Meta或者Google来说，三百万根本不算什么。

I mean, 3,000,000 to Meta or or Google is is nothing.

对吧？

Right?

但如果你突然在全国各地都面临这样的诉讼，那就不一样了，光是律师费就够头疼的。

But if, you know, first of all, if if you're suddenly facing, you know, lawsuits like that all over the country, then suddenly maybe it's it's not nothing, if if nothing else, at least in in legal costs.

而且我觉得这里确实有个问题。

And and I do think that there's this question.

是的。

Yeah.

未来这类诉讼会是什么样子？

What does the, you know, litigation look like in the future?

另外，现在有没有一种趋势，大家开始凝聚共识，讨论这些产品中哪些功能是有害的？

Also, is there sort of this coalescing around the idea of what are the harmful features in these products?

比如，我知道无限滚动这个功能，已经在一些诉讼中被提出来了。

Like, for example, I know that infinite scroll was something that came up in some of these lawsuits.

我觉得无限滚动也出现在一些关于限制儿童使用社交媒体的立法提案里。

I think that infinite scroll is something that's also come up in proposed legislation around, you know, restrictions for social media for children.

所以你可以想象，尽管我不是这方面的科学专家，但很可能这些公司突然意识到：好吧，

And so you you could imagine that that and, I I'm not an expert on all the science around this, but you can imagine a a situation where suddenly all these companies are like, okay.

有些功能我们就是不能给儿童展示，因为一旦用了，麻烦就太大了。

There are certain features that we are just not going to show to children because it is like, we're gonna get into so much trouble.

对。

Yeah.

我有点好奇，最终会不会像香烟那样，出现警示标签？

I kinda wonder if the end result of this is going to be warning labels like we've seen with tobacco.

如果事情升级——我预计它会升级——要是出现巨额和解金，这些公司会不会被迫承认‘这个产品有成瘾性’，或者干脆从根本上改变问题？

If there if that's going to be part of a you know, if it escalates, which I expect it will, if we get these big settlements, if these companies will agree to some sort of language around, like, this is an addictive property, or if they'll be forced to actually change the underlying problem.

我一想到那些警告标签会是什么样子，脑子就开始转个不停，心里还冒出不少阴暗的想法。

It seems my brain is spiraling thinking about what those warning labels might look like, and there are a lot dark thoughts in my head.

不过，我觉得思考这些问题确实是正确的方向。

But no, I I think that's the right thing to be thinking about.

而且我觉得，虽然对像Meta这样的大公司来说，这类判决的赔偿金额可能只是九牛一毛，但对受影响的社区而言，意义可能非常重大——尤其是如果各州能通过这类诉讼追回罚款，并把资金用于社会服务，帮助缓解这些案例中暴露出来的伤害。

And I also think it's a really good point to think about what, you know, despite this being a sort of gnat in on the size of Meta as far as how much money a verdict like this really is to them, that it it really could be meaningful to the communities, you know, if if states especially are able to pry, you know, sort of penalties away or or sort of money brought in lawsuits away like this, and and directed towards social services that could help mitigate some of the harms that were on display in these cases.

所以，未来我们确实值得好好想想这一点。

And so I think that's a good thing to to think about going forward.

大家也该认真琢磨一下，这些警告该怎么做，因为这些问题真的很难解决。

And and for people to think about what that should look like, because that is a hard those are really hard issues to solve.

所以现在每个人都该开始思考了。

And so it's something that everybody needs to think about now.

这真是个完美的结尾。

That is a perfect way to end the show.

谢谢，肖恩。

Thanks, Sean.

今晚大家都会在想这件事。

And we're all gonna be thinking about that tonight.

《Equity》下周一再见。

Equity will be back next week.

在这之前，你可以在 X 和 Threads 上关注 @Equity Pod 收听节目。

Until then, you can find Equity under the handle at Equity Pod on X and Threads.

下周一见。

See you next week.

《Equity》由 TechCrunch 高级记者主持，制作由 Cal 负责剪辑。

Equity is hosted by TechCrunch senior reporters and produced by with editing by Cal.

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非常感谢收听，我们下次再聊。

Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.