他从未跑过 100 英里……却完成了科科多纳 250：杰夫·哈蒙德博士

到了34英里左右，我就想，算了，我不跑了。

So at mile 34 or whatever, I'm like, I'm out.

我当时状态挺低落的，但又不想说得太严重，就想着，你懂的。

And, like, kinda went into I don't wanna say, like, a low, but I was kinda like, you know what?

我不跑了。

I'm not running.

那时候我跟你聊过，我们俩都觉得，还是需要教练指导。

I I talked to you at that point, and I think we we agreed upon, like, coaching.

你当时也在转型期。

You were in a transition.

我们后来就到了那个阶段，我那时候跟着Everyday Ultra训练。

We kinda got to where we were, and I was with everyday ultra then.

我们就说，行吧。

And we were like, okay.

我要去德国了。

I'm going to Germany.

我想吃啥就吃啥。

I'm gonna eat whatever I want.

接下来一个半月，我想干嘛就干嘛。

I'm gonna do whatever I want for the next month and a half.

等我回来，我们就正式开始Cocodona训练。

And when I get back, we're going full blown Cocodona training.

我确实需要这样。

And I needed that.

我需要这段心理上的休息。

I needed that mental break.

这一个半月我基本没怎么练，偶尔跑个两三英里，或者举举铁，做点别的，但真没怎么认真练。

I basically kinda didn't I mean, I ran like, I go run two or three miles and lift weights and do things, but didn't really do much for the next month and a half.

一点越野跑都没跑。

Didn't do any trail running.

啥都没干。

Nothing.

然后就开始跟你一起训练了。

And then started working with you.

我到现在还记得，那画面特别清晰。

And I still remember it is so vivid.

我第一次跑长距离，说实话，那真算得上是长跑了。

My first long run, which I mean, it is a long run.

那一次跑了两个小时，但我当时心想：天啊，我要跑两小时？

It was two hours, but, like, I was like, oh, I'm doing a two hour run.

这时间也太长了吧。

Like, this is so long.

我嫂子陪我一起跑，那时候还在下雪。

Like, I had my sister-in-law with me, and, like, we were running in the snow.

我当时就觉得，这太棒了。

And I was like, I this is so cool.

真没想到，那段经历后来居然成了我训练中的一部分。

And it's just, like, crazy how, like, that also became, like, in my training in

一次轻松的跑步。

An easy run.

完全不一样了。

Different.

六周后，这居然变成了一次轻松的跑步，你知道的。

That became an easy run, you know, six weeks later.

这段旅程确实有起有落。

Like so, yeah, the journey was had highs and lows.

我个人特别感谢你作为我的教练。

And I really think, personally, for me, like, so thankful for you as a coach.

但我觉得，不管你是像艾莉莎这样的普通超马跑者，还是想找任何一位教练，拥有一个支持系统都特别重要。

But I think anyone out there looking for a coach, whether, you know, with everyday ultrarunner, Alyssa, or any coach, it's really important to have that support system.

因为我还能给你发消息，说：‘我今天状态糟透了。’

Because I can also text you and be like, I feel like crap.

或者问：‘我这样练对吗？’

Or, like, am I doing this right?

那些不安全感，说实话，还挺有意思的。

Like, you those insecurities are you know, it was really kinda fun.

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

我这回答是不是太啰嗦了。

I think that was a long winded answer.

没有。

No.

太棒了。

That was amazing.

我想提两点，第一，你刚开始从山里出来、慢慢恢复的时候，每周跑多少公里有概念吗？

And there's a couple of things that I want to touch on is, number one, do you have any idea in that buildup when you were kinda getting out of the mountains what your mileage was looking like per week?

让我想想。

Oh, let me think.

三、六、九、十二，大概也就二十公里左右，说实话，可能还不到。

Three, six, nine, twelve, probably 20 or less, maybe, honestly.

你那时候闲逛的那个月呢？

In that month when you were hanging out?

我是说，在跑50公里和100英里之前，你平时跑多少？

Or I'm saying, like, before leading into the 50 k and the 100 miler, what do you

你觉得是多少？

think it was?

跑50公里之前，大概每周20到25英里吧，说实话。

Leading into the 50 k, probably 20 to 25 miles, like, honestly.

其实也没多少。

Like, it wasn't much.

我就是跑一次长距离。

I would go do one long run.

如果你熟悉犹他州，我就跑过蒂曼戈戈斯，大概12到15英里。

So if people know Utah, I did Timpanogos, and I was 12 to 15 miles.

我就跑这么一次，再搭配三四次短距离的快跑。

So I did that, and then it would be three or four short fast runs.

我通常会在健身房的跑步机上跑五公里，或者去Orangetheory锻炼，就在那儿完成训练。

I'd be running a five k at a gym on a treadmill, do Orangetheory, and that's where I would do it.

差不多就是我平时的做法。

And I was like, kind of what I was doing.

我从来没怎么在意过跑多少公里，说实话。

I never really thought about mileage, I guess.

我也说不准。

I don't know.

我真没怎么考虑过里程数。

I've never really thought about mileage.

你这么一说，倒是让我有点明白了。

You've kind of helped me.

我现在还是总想着追里程，但其实那时候我根本不懂自己在干嘛。

I still it's like that chasing the miles, but yeah, that wasn't that was just I I didn't know what I was doing.

我只是觉得，嘿，我能跑完这段距离，那就去跑吧。

I was just like, hey, I could go run this distance.

这到底是怎么回事？

Like, what the heck?

是的。

Yeah.

但我

But I

我从来没想过要赢比赛。

don't think I was ever trying to win a race.

我觉得只是想完成它。

And I think it was just like completion.

所以我就会想，哦，这周我跑了25英里。

So I'm like, oh, I ran 25 miles this week.

50公里才多10英里而已。

50 k is only 10 more miles.

不错。

Cool.

我去跑一趟。

I'll go do that.

就是说，我

Like, I

我不确定。

don't know.

说实话，25到35英里这个范围对50公里已经够了，尤其是如果大部分跑步，或者至少有一部分是在山里跑的，你知道的，那种时候速度慢，脚底受力时间更长。

And to be honest, in that 25 to 35 mile range is enough for a 50 k, especially if a lot of that running or at least some of that running is in the mountains where, you know, maybe it's slower miles, more time on feet.

但确实，我记着有几次训练跑超过了20英里，这已经很不错了。

But definitely, I feel like there was a few times where, like, I got over 20 miles on some training runs, which is great.

我的意思是，确实如此。

I mean, that's Yeah.

我不清楚。

I don't know.

奇怪的是，这种时间段我也不知道该怎么说。

It's weird that that kind of timeframe is I don't know.

我到现在还觉得脑子昏昏沉沉的，都是Cocodona那会儿留下的后遗症。

I still feel like I'm foggy from Cocodona.

有一次我开处方的时候，还问过我的同事现在是哪一年。

I did ask my staff what year it was at one point when I was writing a prescription.

我有个好朋友叫克里斯蒂安·艾伦，很多人可能听过他的名字，是个特别厉害的跑者。

I have a good friend, Christian Allen, which people may know the name, great, great runner.

他总跟我说：‘你去跑跑这条小径吧。’

And he would say, Hey, go do this trail.

我就回他：‘太好了，我这就去跑这条路。’

And I'm like, Sweet, I'll go do that trail.

结果一不小心就闯进了几条特别折腾的山路。

And I got myself into some crazy trails.

后来我碰见他，我说：‘那条路可真够狠的。’

And then I see him, he's like, Oh, I'm like, That was hard.

他却说：‘我早就跟你说过了。’

He's like, I told you that.

我心想：没有啊，你没说过。

I'm like, No, you didn't.

你这记性越来越差了。

You're slipping out.

这事儿挺难的，因为我根本不知道它们到底有多远。

And it's hard because I never really knew how far they were.

因为他老说：嘿。

I because he would say, hey.

从这儿出发，一直走到那儿。

Start here and go there.

我一听，他却说：哦，这得花好几个钟头。

I'm like and he's like, oh, and it takes a couple hours.

嗯，也许对于跑过两小时零八分马拉松的人来说，确实不算啥，你知道的，人家是专业跑者。

Well, yeah, maybe for someone who runs, you know, a two zero eight marathon or something, you know, you know, and runs.

可我根本用不了好几个钟头。

It didn't take me a couple hours.

那这么说吧。

So let's put it that way.

我们就说有几次太阳快下山了。

Let's just say a couple times the sun was setting.

我当时没带手电筒或者头灯。

I didn't have a flashlight or headlamp.

但那个区域我确实不太记得了。

But, yeah, I I that area I don't yeah.

我最长的一次跑步，可能真像你说的那样。

I I probably did the longest run I did was probably, I think you're right.

那段时间我最长的跑步大概就是十八到二十英里，也就一两次吧。

I probably about 18 to 20 miles, like, once or twice was probably the longest run I probably did during that time.

太棒了。

Love it.

那你后来就决定了，嘿。

So then you decide, hey.

我打算休息一下。

I'm gonna take this break.

现在回头看看，你觉得那次休息有多重要？当时有多少工作压过来？

How important do you feel that was now looking back and how much work was coming your way?

你觉得如果你没休息，能撑完所有训练吗？还是会累到实在撑不下去？

Do you think if you hadn't taken that break, you would have been able to work through all the training, or you would have hit a point of just like, I am really tired.

是的。

Yeah.

不行。

No.

我肯定会再给自己放一次假。

I think I think I would 100% tell myself take that break again.

大概在Cocodona训练开始前四周，我就彻底累了，觉得训练太烦了。

I think I hit a wall for Cocodona training probably like four weeks out where I was just like, I just am tired of the training.

一开始还挺有意思的，后来就完全不是那么回事了。

Like, it just become like, was at beginning, it was fun.

那时候就是觉得，我们一直在冲劲儿上，特别有激情。

It was like, because we're pushing it and like, this excitement there.

然后突然间，就开始接连好几个星期，每周都跑六七个小时。

And then all of sudden, you start getting to back to back week long six, seven hour runs.

我只能反复跑同一条路线，因为长距离训练时，我不想再花一两个小时开车去别处——至少对我而言是这样，毕竟我有两个小孩。

And then I'm running the same trails over and over because when you have those long runs, you don't want to drive somewhere and then add another hour or two to that to then go at least for me, because I had two little kids.

我老婆本来就对我每周跑十五个小时有点不高兴了。

My wife's already mad that I'm running fifteen hours a week or whatever it was.

所以那段时间真的特别难熬。

And so that became really hard.

我觉得，如果我没休息那段时间，哪怕只是随便跑跑、练练，没那么拼命，我也迟早会撑不住，或者至少会撞上一堵墙，那局面就很难收拾了。

So I think if I didn't take that break and even if I had just been, like, kinda just exercising and running and not, like, doing stuff, I think I would have crashed sooner or not crashed, but, like, kinda hit a a wall, and it would have made it hard.

所以对我来说，那段休息真的特别好。

So for me, it was really great.

我回来之后，又重新燃起了热情。

I I came back, and I was excited.

我还记得，刚开始把所有数据上传到Training Peaks的时候，琢磨着怎么弄，然后心想：好吧，得去跑个三十分钟，再做几组深蹲。

I still remember, like, when we started uploading all the things to Training Peaks and everything, figuring that out and being like, Okay, I gotta go do a thirty minute run and then do some lunges.

那时候真让我特别兴奋。

It was really exciting for me.

现在从Cocodona比赛后休息下来，让身体慢慢恢复，我居然又找回了那种感觉。

And now being on this break currently post Cocodona where I'm letting things heal and things go down, I'm kind of feeling that excitement again.

我前几天看了一眼Training Peaks，立马就放弃了，算了。

I'm kind of excited to I looked at Train Peaks once and I was like, Never mind.

你上传了啥，我真的一点都没看。

So whatever you've been uploading, I really haven't looked at.

我就觉得，算了，我不干了。

I just because I've been like, No, I'm not doing it.

我心理上、身体上，都实在撑不住以前那些高强度训练了。

I can't I just mentally and probably physically can't do a lot of what I need to do.

但现在，我又开始有点跃跃欲试了。

But now I'm kind of getting excited.

我现在又开始期待再看到这些了。

I'm like, Now I'm excited to see that again.

我很期待看看我们怎么重新一步步积累起来。

I'm excited to see how we're going to build up again to something.

所以啊，大家该休息就休息吧。

So yeah, people, go on, take a break.

我不确定。

I don't know.

对。

Yes.

吃块奇巧吧。

Have a Kit Kat.

我也是。

I yeah.

我喝健怡可乐。

I'm Diet Coke.

我喜欢

I love

这可真是喝了不少健怡可乐。

this so lots of Diet Coke.

喝了不少健怡可乐。

Lots of Diet Coke.

我喜欢这个，因为我也一样，总觉得别人都在重新开始跑步，压力很大。

I love this because I think and I I'm at fault of this too where you feel the pressure of everyone else is getting back to running.

我得重新开始才行。

I need to get back to it.

人家都在晒跑步成果了，他们怎么这么快就练回来了？

People are posting their, how are they already doing this?

我连准备都没做好。

I don't even feel ready.

而且确实如此。

And Yeah.

最麻烦的是，身在现场的时候，外人往往觉得你恢复得很快，好像说，哎，我感觉挺好的。

The biggest thing being physically here's the tricky thing is that from the outside, oftentimes, we can feel healed very quickly where people like, oh, I feel pretty good.

我想赶紧重新开始。

I wanna get back into it.

可能才三五天后，人就急着想回来了。

And that can be as soon as three, four, five days afterwards.

是的。

Mhmm.

但内在的恢复没那么简单，不只是荷尔蒙要重新调整、睡眠不足这些，你的大脑也需要休息。

The but the internal piece and not only internally of your hormones, reregulating, sleep deprivation, all of that, but also your brain needs a break.

它需要时间，从那种有严格安排的训练中抽离出来。我的意思是，你刚完成了一件特别艰难的事，可能是这辈子最难的事。

It needs time to just be out of the constraint of structured training of having to do some I mean, you've done this incredibly hard thing, maybe the hardest thing you've ever done in your life.

你得花点时间消化一下，接下来别再做这么累的事，甚至别接近那种强度。

You need time to absorb that and maybe not do something that hard for a little while or even remotely close to that hard.

对啊。

Well yeah.

我觉得很多人会说，嘿。

And I and I think, you know, people are like, hey.

我要去跑两百英里，关掉手机，什么都不想，就这么一直跑。

I'm gonna go run 200 miles, turn my phone off, and I'm just not gonna think and just go.

不是这样的。

No.

我的脑子得一直转着，才能让我保持清醒，继续往前，集中注意力。

My mind was like, to keep me awake, to keep me going, keep me focused.

别人问，那你是不是忘了赛道的某些部分？

People say, Well, did you forget portions of the course?

我说，我几乎能想起每一步是怎么走的。

I'm like, I can almost think of every step I took.

你得时刻留意所有细节。

You have to think about everything.

我能清楚记得在明格斯赛道第三个转弯处踢到的那块破石头。

I can think of that stupid rock I kicked on the third turnabout on Mingus.

我能想起这些细枝末节，但你的脑子确实已经彻底耗尽了。

I can think about all these little things and yeah, your brain is fried.

我问手下现在是哪一年，其实是有原因的。

I mean, there's a reason why I was asking my staff what year it was.

我到现在偶尔还觉得像在梦里，而且那地方真的离得特别远。

There's a reason why I still sometimes feel like I'm in a haze and we're pretty far out.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

这挺有意思的，我从来没跑过两百英里，主要原因就是我对莫阿布几乎没什么记忆。

That's interesting because that was actually my biggest reason why I've not done two hunters is because I don't remember much of Moab.

恰恰相反，我反而有点害怕，居然忘得这么多。

It's like the opposite thing where I'm like, that's a bit scary how much I don't remember.

哎呀。

Uh-oh.

你看，挺有意思的是，我都记得清清楚楚。

See, it's funny because like, I remember everything.

是的。

Yeah.

我

I

记得。

remember.

我真的一直在记下来。

I seriously, I've been writing it down.

我差不多在写一个小故事，好让自己把所有事都记住。

Like, I've been kinda, like, doing, like, a little, like, story so I can remember everything.

结果我发现，本来以为会忘掉更多，

And I it's kinda actually, I thought I was gonna forget more.

说实话，我根本没想到自己能记得这么多。

Like, I honestly didn't think I was gonna remember.

但我一个人跑了好多夜路，我觉得正是靠不断回想每一个细节，才让我坚持下来的。

But, I mean, I did a lot of, like, night sections alone, and I think I mentally like, I think that was how it kept me going was thinking about every little thing more or less, like, kinda being there.

而且你得一直保持清醒。

And you had to be on more.

我身边那些配速员都很靠谱，他们能替我思考。

I had very competent pacers throughout that could just think for me.

所以我觉得这样反而让我能更彻底地放空大脑。

So I think that allowed me to to shut my brain off more.

是的。

Yeah.

如果说到那段我记不太清的路程，我得说，我家人真的特别棒。

If I think of the section that I can't remember well And this is I love my family.

他们做得很好，但当时陪我跑的是个更有经验的配速员。

They did a great job, but I had someone who was more experienced pacing me.

那段路，说实话，我真的完全没印象。

And yeah, that section, yeah, I don't remember.

那段可能是唯一一段我记得清楚的，后来是谢尔比给我配速的。

That's probably the one section where I'm like, well and then I had Shelby actually paced me next one.

那两段具体多长，我真的说不上来。

And those two sections, like, I couldn't tell you how long they were.

我们当时在哪儿，我也完全没印象。

I couldn't tell you where we were.

就那段，我唯一记得的是，整整四个小时，一直能听到发电机的声音。

I the only thing I remember with one section is we heard a generator for the full, like, four hours.

就是那种持续不断的轰鸣。

Just this constant.

我一直在想，这发电机到底在哪儿？

And I'm like, where is this generator?

我们明明是在峡谷里啊。

Like, we're in this canyon.

对，就是这样。

Like so, like yeah.

所以我觉得，如果不是非得上场，说实话，我可能根本记不住啥事。

So I I think if I didn't have to be on, like, personally, yeah, I would I would not have remembered much of anything.

挺有意思的。

Interesting.

我觉得这背后肯定有相关的研究。

I feel like there's a study of some kind there.

你休息的时候。

So you take the break.

我们就开始一起工作了。

We start working together.

我很想听听你在这段经历里遇到的高潮和低谷，咱们说说。

I'd love to hear some of the highs and lows that you faced in that let's see.

整个训练期大概有六个月，五到六个月吧。

It's, like, about a six month training period, five to six months.

对。

Yeah.

我本来以为会是这种情况，结果没想到居然会这样，真是出乎意料。

What what was kind of the, oh, I expected this to happen and then the, oh, wow.

我没料到这件事会这么有挑战性。

I did not foresee that being that challenging.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得我一开始就很认真地准备好了，按你说的去做，这其实挺关键的。

I mean, I think I went into it pretty prepared to do whatever you said, which I think was really good.

幸运的是——虽然对犹他州来说可能不算幸运——那个冬天特别温和，让我能 outdoors 做大量训练，要是在 treadmill 上，根本没法比。

The I luckily, I mean, not luckily for Utah, but we had a very mild winter, which really allowed me to do a lot of training that I probably otherwise wouldn't have been able to have done, like be outside as much because treadmills are horrible.

不过那些破 treadmill 真是糟透了，我接触的全是这种，根本没碰到过好的。

But well, bad treadmills are horrible, which I had access to a lot of bad treadmills, not good treadmills.

好的跑步机确实很棒。

Good treadmills are great.

差的跑步机简直让人受不了。

Bad treadmills are not fun.

是的。

Yeah.

我其实说服了橙色理论健身房让我连续跑完两节课，根本不下来——他们平时是不允许这样的，因为他们那里的跑步机质量很好。

I actually I convinced an orange theory to let me run through the whole class, like two classes straight without getting off, which they typically wouldn't allow because they have good treadmills.

我说过，我在那上面能一直跑下去。

I said and I could go run forever on them.

但我常去附近一个小俱乐部，跑完膝盖和腿都疼。

But I go to, like, this little clubhouse over here, and my knees and legs would hurt.

所以嘛。

So yeah.

不过话说回来。

Anyways but let's see.

是的。

Yeah.

我记得有几次，得顶着冷雨出门跑步，那时候我就想，唉，这事儿非得干不可。

So I think there was a couple times, like, getting up and, like, having to run-in cold rain, like, where I'm like, I have to do this.

这可是我唯一能跑步的时间。

This is the only time I can do this.

我根本不是那种早起晨跑的人。

Like, I am not an early runner morning runner.

好多跑者都这样，说起来挺神的。

Like, I feel like a lot of runners are like, hey.

他们五点就起床了。

I get up at five in the morning.

然后出去跑步。

I go run.

我呢，得等到十点、十一点。

I'm like, 10AM, 11AM.

嘿。

Hey.

下午四点，咱们出发吧。

Let's go four in the afternoon.

哎，是这样。

Like, hey.

天气不错。

The weather's good.

咱们去跑步吧。

Let's go run.

这说的就是我。

Like, that is me.

平时只要能自己选，我才不会。

Like, I'm not, when I don't when I can choose.

现在你要说，哎。

Now if you say, hey.

这事咱们就得干。

This is what we gotta do.

我会去做，而且一定能做得更好。

I will do it, and I can totally improve it.

我会去把咱们需要做的事都做了。

I will go do whatever we need to do.

不过呢，有几次是大清早，下着冷得刺骨的毛毛雨，我还得往上跑坡。

But, like, there's a couple times where it's, like, early morning, cold kinda freezing rain, and I'm running up a hill.

那些时候，怎么说呢，动作挺杂乱的。

And the those I mean, they were kinda it was a mixed motion.

我不太喜欢那种感觉，但跑完之后，我心里还是挺有成就感的。

Like, I didn't like it, but at the end, I was like, I did that.

我有点像洛奇那样。

I'm kinda like Rocky.

那感觉还挺棒的。

Like, that's cool.

我觉得还有一次特别低落，就是有时候一跑就是四到六个小时，跑完整个人都虚了。

I think there was another low, kinda just like sometimes you would get out on a long four to six hour run, and I would just be depleted.

那会儿快到周末了，不管是精神上还是身体上都快撑不住了，心里还嘀咕：我才跑了十五英里啊。

It was the end of the week, whether it was depleted mentally or physically, and being like, Man, I only went 15 miles.

当然了，那时候我是在爬山什么的。

And granted, I was climbing a mountain or something.

然后我就看着那些跑者，心想：哦，这周他们跑了120英里。

And then I would look at some of these runners and be like, Oh, I did 120 miles this week.

而我呢，这周才跑了59英里。

And I'm like, Oh, I did 59 miles this week.

我还记得有一周，我拼命追里程，最后跑了大概80多英里，但那根本不适合我。

And I still remember there was one week I was chasing miles, and I was like and I think I got, like, 80 something miles that week, and it wasn't right for me.

那种方式真的不对劲，可我又特别内疚，觉得自己没达到每周100英里的标准。

Like, that just like, I I it just wasn't right, but I felt so guilty that I wasn't doing this 100 mile weeks.

对吧？

Right?

幸运的是，我有你。

And luckily, I have you.

我平时接触很多跑者，他们的训练方式差别很大，有的跑低里程，有的跑高里程。

I actually work with a lot of runners who train very differently, that train low and high mileage.

所以我跟他们聊了，但对我来说，这依然很难。

And so I talked to them, and it's still hard for me.

我还是想成为那个每周跑一百英里的人，可我根本不是那种人。

I still wanna be that person that's like, I run a 100 miles this week, but I'm just not that person.

我的身体就是不适合这样，我想。

That's just not how my body functions, I guess.

那时候确实经历了一些心理上的低谷。

So there was, like, some of those, like, kinda mental lows.

说实话，再往前推三四周，那段时间真挺难熬的。

And then, honestly, yeah, three, four weeks out, it was tough.

还有另一件事，我一度以为自己得了应力性骨折。

I mean, another thing I went through, I thought I had a stress fracture.

后来做了核磁共振。

Got an MRI.

幸运的是，不是应力性骨折，但检查发现我有个骨肿瘤，不过不是恶性的，只是个软骨瘤。

Well, luckily, no stress fracture, but it led to say that I had a bone tumor, which not a serious bone tumor, but, like, an achondroma.

所以呢，我这么个足科医生，就在这儿了，对吧？

And so, like, all these things, like, here I am, the foot doctor, right?

我觉得这本身也挺有压力的。

And I think that was a big stress too.

当个足科医生压力很大，因为别人总以为你脚肯定完美无缺。

Being the foot doctor is a big stressor because people are like, Oh, you must have perfect feet.

你肯定知道怎么照顾好自己的脚。

You must know how to do everything to your feet.

可我自己却正受着腓骨肌腱炎的折磨。

And here I am dealing with peroneal tendonitis.

膝盖也疼。

I'm dealing with knee pain.

各种问题全凑一块儿了。

I'm dealing with all these things.

我记得那时候还在湖边跑步，坐那儿发呆，连自己脚里长的是什么瘤都不清楚。

It's like and that's where I still remember I was running around the lake and I'm sitting there going like, and I didn't know what kind of tumor I had in my foot.

我当时想，我是不是得把腿截了？

I'm like, am I cutting my leg off?

然后我就想，不行，我得先跑完科科多纳，之后再说截腿的事。

And I'm like, well, I have to run Cocodona first, then we can cut my leg off.

我脑子里一直在想这些极端的情况。

Like, I'm going through these scenarios.

对吧？

Right?

这事儿真是疯狂。

And, you know, it it's crazy.

我也不晓得。

I don't know.

有些压力是我自己无端制造出来的，其实没必要，但有些事就是没法控制，偏偏发生了。

I I some of it was self my own self creating a low when I didn't need to, but some of it just happens based off of things you can't control.

是的。

Yeah.

那时候真的特别难熬，你心里想着，我的脚怕是出大问题了。

That was, that was such a tough moment when you're like, well, I think my foot's really messed up.

感觉太诡异了。

And it's too weird.

幸运的是，后来发现没什么大碍。

Luckily, it was benign.

但当时我们根本不知道。

We didn't know that right away.

不过说真的。

But it's yeah.

你再懂脂肪组织，身体也不会因为你懂这个，就自动把你当成足科专家。

I mean, just because you have an expertise in cellulite doesn't mean your body's like, oh, he's a foot doctor.

我们最后也没出什么状况。

We're not gonna have any problems.

事情哪有那么简单。

That's not how it works.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

没错

Yeah.

确实

Yeah.

我觉得，关于训练这部分，挺有意思的。

And I think, you know, with the training piece, it was interesting.

你每次带一个运动员，总得琢磨，到底多少压力算太多，多少才算刚好。

You know, whenever you take on an athlete, you're always figuring out, you know, how much stress is too much stress and how much is enough.

而你呢，有孩子，有生意，生活里一堆事压着你，逼着你非得达到那个数字不可。

And with you, you know, you have kids, you have business, you have a lot going on in your life and pushing you to the point of, like, we have to hit this arbitrary number.

你觉得将来有没有可能把每周跑量增加到九十里、一百里？

And do I think that you could increase to a ninety, hundred mile week at some point?

有可能。

Possibly.

我的意思是，这当然不是完全不可能，但对你来说，作为一个刚接触超马的新手，再加上时间上的限制，这并不是当时最合适的选择。

I you know, that's not off the table by any means, but I don't that wasn't what was best for you at this time as a, a newer runner, in ultramarathons, but also just with the time constraints.

我们当然希望不断突破自己，但也要明白，有时候过度施压反而适得其反。

And, absolutely, we want to push ourselves, but it's also like there's a point at which pushing yourself is not productive.

所以对你，我一直在留意，比如：嗯，情况怎么样。

And so with you, I was always kinda monitoring the, like, okay.

我们做过六小时的长跑，但关键是要找到平衡，有时候得说：嘿。

You know, we went to the six hour long run, etcetera, but, like, we we need to balance things where, hey.

平时训练我们再加点量。

We're gonna push a little bit more during the week.

但有时候也得适当放松。

We're gonna back it off.

我觉得你做得特别好，你完全按计划执行了，而且……

So I think that you did such a great job of I mean, you followed everything, but also

上面全是绿色标记。

green marks all across it.

偶尔来一个红色或黄色的就行。

Have, like, one red or one yellow.

不用。

No.

你确实做到了。

You absolutely did.

我就知道你一定能行。

And I knew you would do that.

我工作的部分就是确保挑战对你来说刚刚好，不会让你没时间陪家人。

So part of my job was to make sure that it was sustainably challenging for you, but not to the point where it's like you couldn't show up for your family.

也不会让你没时间顾及生意。

You couldn't show up for your business.

我觉得，确实很容易陷入一种想法，觉得你非得怎么做不可。

And I think that, yeah, it's really easy to get caught up in the narrative of you have to do something.

不是这样的。

It's like, no.

实际上，做最适合自己的事，而不是跟着别人走，一样能非常成功。

Actually, you can be very successful doing what's best for you, not what everyone else is doing.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

而且每个人都不一样。

And and everyone's so different.

对吧？

Right?

就像你刚才说的，各种限制什么的。

Like like you were saying, like, constraints and everything.

有些人，我觉得我们常常会追随那些以跑步为职业的运动员。

Some people I mean and I think a lot of times we follow a lot of professional runners whose their job is running.

所以他们能做的、有时间做的，就是跑步。

So what are they going to do and have the time to do is run.

对。

Yeah.

我没有那么多时间。

And I don't have that time.

没错。

No.

你做得太棒了。

And you did a masterful job.

你说到的，正是你实际做到的，我也有同样的感受，这真的很棒。

You saying what you were trying to do is what you did, and that's how I felt, which is really cool.

听到这些挺有意思的，我心里想：嘿，干得漂亮。

It's kind of fun to hear that because I'm like, Oh, hey, good job.

我就是这么想的。

That's that's how I felt.

干得漂亮。

So good job.

给你点赞。

Kudos.

谢谢。

Thanks.

说实话，有时候我表现得更好，有时候就差一点。

I mean, that's that sometimes I get it better than others.

你特别坦诚地表达自己的感受，这一点我真的很欣赏。

And part of that was communication of you were really good at being very honest about how you were feeling, which I appreciated.

还有，我喜欢看到你一开始说累啊、状态不好啊，但后来情况好转了，这种转变特别有意思。

And also I loved seeing when you'd be like, well, started out tired or, like, I didn't feel good in this part, but then it came around and I really enjoyed that.

这些反馈对我很有帮助，让我觉得挺清楚的。

And so that is a lot of good feedback for me to be like, okay.

是的。

Yeah.

疲劳在累积，但他还能撑得住。

The fatigue is building, but also he's okay.

我们可以继续沿着这条线走，就是那种脑子彻底烧干的状态。

We can keep kinda on this track or the point where it's like, I am just mentally fried.

就差一点点了。

It's like, we're so close.

再坚持一会儿就行。

Just a little bit longer.

对。

Yeah.

我快到极限了。

I was getting there.

我不得不开车去国家公园，跑了一趟步。

I had a I literally had to drive to a national park and go for a run.

我真的看腻了那条峡谷里反复爬的石头。

Like, I just, like, could not look at the same rocks up a canyon that I had been going up.

我当时就觉得，我得换点新鲜的。

I was like, I need something different.

对，这种事确实会发生。

And yeah, it happens.

嗯，其实不是这样。

And yeah, no.

我甚至都开始用Strava在公园里画复活节彩蛋了。

I even got to the point where I was drawing Easter eggs with my Strava in a park.

我在路上画出了网格图案。

I was making grid patterns on the roads.

当你得想办法打发时间时，脑子真会有点发疯。

You kinda go a little loopy when you you gotta get creative.

对。

Yes.

不对。

No.

我特别喜欢那个复活节彩蛋的设计。

I loved the Easter egg.

在进入本期内容之前，我经常被人问到一个问题：怎么才能更轻松地找到和规划跑步路线？

Before we dive into this episode, I always get asked the question, how do you make finding and mapping running routes a lot easier?

因为规划跑步路线对训练至关重要，不管你是在跑长距离，想模拟你即将参加的比赛路线，还是在做速度训练，需要找一些适合冲刺的路段，你都希望路线能快速规划好，省时省力，而且清楚知道自己要去哪里。

Because it's really important to map your running routes to get in the right route for your training, whether you're doing a long run that's supposed to mock your specific race that you're doing or a speed workout where you want to make sure you have some nice areas to go fast on, you want to make sure that you can make routes easily so it's not taking too much time and you know exactly where you're going.

所以在我备战西部山区100英里赛时，我必须找到那些真正适合跑步、爬升和下坡都很多，而且特别热的路线。

And so for me going into Western States 100, I had to find routes that were really runnable, that had a lot of climbing, a lot of descending, and also that were hot.

我用了一个叫Footpath的应用，打开地图就能查看周围的步道，随手就能规划路线，还能直接看到累计爬升、下降高度、预估用时和里程数。

So what I did was I use an app called Footpath where I can open up the map around me, I can look around trails, and I can ultimately map out routes at my fingertip to see the elevation gain and descent, see approximately how long it'll take me, what the mileage is.

找到合适的路线后，我可以直接导出到我的手表上，随时查看。

And then once I find the route, I can export it to my watch so I can have it on the watch directly.

我也可以同步到手机上，即使没网络也能离线使用。

And I can also have it on my phone, even in an offline mode where I don't need service.

如果我想在西部山区赛前做速度训练，想跑自行车道，这个应用还有专门的自行车道图层，能帮我发现我住的地方原来还有这么多我根本不知道的自行车道。

And if I ever want to do a speed workout for Western States and I want to go on bike paths, there is even a bike path overlay where I can find bike paths that I didn't even know existed in the area where I live.

所以我也能用它来做速度训练。

So I can do those speed workouts as well.

Footpath 这个应用真是太棒了。

And so Footpath is an incredible app.

它帮我轻松找到并规划跑步路线。

It's an app that I use to make finding and running routes a lot easier.

你可以去 footpathapp.com/everydayultra 试用，注册就能免费享受所有高级功能，为期三十天。

And you can give it a try as well too with all the lead features by going to footpathapp.com/everydayultra and get free lead features for thirty days.

如果之后想全年订阅，一年只要 24 美元。

And if you wanna upgrade after for the whole year, it's only $24 for the entire year.

价格特别实惠。

So super, super affordable.

关键是要让路线规划变得非常简单，确保这些路线即使在户外没信号时也能用，这对我们很多人来说都很重要。

The point is this, is you wanna make sure that you are mapping your routes really, really easy and to have those routes in a way where you can have it even when service goes out as it does for many of us in the outdoors.

想试试的话，去 footpathapp.com/everultra，免费领取三十天高级功能，亲自体验一下，让你的路线规划真正匹配你的训练需求，效果非常好。

So if you wanna give it a try, go to footpathapp.com/everultra, get elite days for thirty days for free, give it a try, and make sure that your mapping matches your training, which is excellent.

另外特别推荐一下Janji，这是我最喜欢的越野跑服装品牌，尤其是即将到来的炎热季节。

Also want to give a huge shout out to Janji, which is my favorite trail running apparel on the market, especially when it comes to the hotter months that are coming up.

你需要一套能帮你保持凉爽、穿着舒适还不磨皮肤的越野跑装备。

You need trail running equipment that is going to help to keep you cool and also feel good without chafing you out there.

所以我所有高温赛事都穿Janji，包括即将参加的西部山区100英里和巴德沃特135英里。

And that's why I wear Janji for all my hot races, including Western States one hundred and Badwater one hundred thirty five coming up.

我最钟意的是Run All Day T恤，穿起来特别凉快，也不会磨皮肤，还有那款两用短裤，同样不磨人，我特别喜欢它的压缩内衬，就算被汗水浸透、用过降温喷雾，依然很舒服。

My favorite items are the Run All Day Tee, which keeps me nice and cool and also does not chafe me, and the two in one multi shorts, which again does not chafe and I love the compression liner because it's nice and comfortable even when I get soaked through the sweat and topical cooling out there.

而且还有口袋，能放东西，特别实用。

And it's got pockets for storage, which are really, really useful.

如果你想买我推荐的这些Janji单品，或者看看我其他最爱的装备，就去janji.com/everydayultra看看吧。

So if you want to shop those and all my other favorite items at Janji, go to janji.com/everydayultra to check out my favorites.

赶紧去试试，别忘了用Janji升级你的跑步装备。

Go grab them, go give them a try and make sure that you're upgrading your apparel with Janji.

好了，各位，我们继续回到节目。

Alright, everyone, let's get back in the episode.

熬过了交易中最难的部分。

So we get through the hard part of trading.

你已经完成了前37英里的训练跑。

You did the training run of the first 37 miles.

天气特别热，挑战很大。

It's really hot and challenging.

前37英里真是够呛。

Oh, that stunk, that first 37 miles.

那真是个低谷。

That's a low.

比赛的时候好点了吗？

Was it better during the race?

哦，比赛简直太棒了。

Oh yeah, the race was amazing.

没错。

Yeah.

温度特别舒服。

Was great temperature.

说实话，我故意放慢了速度。

Mean, I tried to go slow, and I'm being totally honest.

我根本没使劲儿跑。

I was not pushing it.

结果比我自己预想的早了整整两个小时完赛。

Still came in two hours earlier than I thought I was

我早猜到会这样。

gonna I figured.

对。

Yeah.

我就知道会这样。

It was I knew that would happen.

我真的没想拼命跑。

I and, like, I wasn't trying.

我老实说，训练时跑得比任何时候都拼，但不一样的是，那次我没出现那种热得受不了、没水喝必须停下来的情况，因为那次我根本没怎么喝水。

I and I honestly don't think I ever ran harder than I did on the training run, but the difference was is I didn't have those moments where, like, I had to sit there and stop because I was so hot or out of water because I wasn't drink I didn't have to drink as much.

训练那次感觉其实更热。

I didn't feel like when I did the training run, was much hotter.

那次喝的水更多。

Was drinking more.

而且我水还喝光了。

Also I ran out of water.

那时候好多类似的问题。

There was a lot of things like that.

这次呢，就是难，但说不上来怎么回事。

This one, it was just more like it was hard, but it was like I don't know.

不过训练那次确实有个低谷。

It but, yeah, the training run would there's a low.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的很辛苦。

It's tough.

你不是像比赛刚开始那样，状态完全轻松地出发。

It's you're not going into it fresh like you are for the beginning of the race.

因为补给点少了一些，你得自己多带点水。

You're having to carry a bit more water because there's a few less aid stations.

训练时的天气比比赛那天热多了，不过周二晚上下了场雨，我觉得再好的天气也不过如此了，特别适合Cocodona。

It was way hotter for the training run than it was for the the race was other than, I think, a rainstorm on Tuesday night seem like, I don't think you could have gotten better weather for Cocodona.

确实刚好撞上了。

I it's It was match.

真不知道我们怎么这么幸运。

I don't know how we got so lucky.

天气实在太棒了。

It was really awesome.

是啊。

Yeah.

现在离比赛越来越近了。

So how we're getting close to the race.

到了赛前一整天，去领取物资的时候，你就会感受到那种氛围。

You're getting to, you know, the day before at the pickup.

你和玛吉现在感觉怎么样？

How are you and Maggie feeling?

嗯，让我想想。

Well, let's see.

我们其实提前一周的周四去了犹他州的莫阿布，因为我妻子在那里有个会议。

So we actually went down to Moab, Utah, like, the Thursday before the race because my wife had chat a conference down there.

我当时的目标就是好好休息，做几趟轻松的热身跑——我很期待能在新地方跑一跑。

And so the goal for me was just to, like, lay in bed, do, like, a couple shakeout runs, which I was excited to do and somewhere new.

我还做了几次按摩。

I got, like, some massages.

我就想着放松一下，别太紧张。

I was just, like, trying to, like, chill out.

但问题是，这个会议上我们认识不少人。

But the problem was at this conference, we knew a bunch of people.

每次和会上的人一起吃饭，他们都会说：哦，你不是要参加那个比赛吗？

So every time we go to dinner for with people at the conference, it's like, oh, you have this race.

一直有人问，不停地问：天啊，你准备好了吗？

Oh, and it was just, like, this constant, like, kinda poke and, like, like, Oh my goodness, are you ready?

你准备好了吗？

Are you ready?

你准备好了吗？

Are you ready?

我心里其实也没底，不知道自己到底行不行。

And it's like, I hope I'm ready.

我的车里装满了过去一年买的各种装备，花了不少钱。

My car is full of thousands of dollars of gear that I bought over the last year and all this money I've spent.

真没想到，居然带了这么多东西。

It's amazing how just so much stuff.

我把床铺放在车后座，所有东西都安排好了。

I had my bed in the back of the car, had everything set up.

我们一路走着，我一个人待着，因为玛吉在参加她的会议，我就闲晃着，还带了台Switch打游戏。

And so we were going through that and I was kind of by myself because Maggie was at her conference and I was just hanging out and I had brought a Nintendo Switch to play games.

我做了这么多准备，结果还是没撑住。

Did all this and I couldn't do it.

说实话，这可能不太对，但我一直在刷Instagram。

Honestly this is probably not good, but I was scrolling on Instagram.

我只是想找点事做，别去想那些事。

I needed something to just not really think about.

我试过睡觉，也一直想小睡一会儿，但就是睡不着。

And I didn't I mean, I tried to sleep and I kept trying to take naps, but it was hard.

但到了周六，我们一路开下去，事情才真正变得实在起来——开车的时候，我们开进了弗拉格斯塔夫，还在埃爾登山脚下吃了意大利面。

But then we drove down, what, Saturday, and it started getting kind of real as you're like, we're driving and we drove into Flagstaff, and then we actually got pasta at the base of Eldon.

那时候我才真正意识到，我知道这条赛道，之前已经开过两次了，一次是给谢尔比当支援，还有一次是我和玛吉一起全程开过，可能那根本不是个好主意。

And it was kind of like, That's And I know the course At this time, I'd driven the course twice, once crew and Shelby, and then me and Maggie had driven the whole course, which probably wasn't the best thing to do.

这让我有点慌了。

That freaked me out.

但因为我终于意识到250英里到底有多远。

But, because I realized how far 250 miles is.

但其实我心里有数。

But, like, I knew.

所以我心想，好吧，我知道自己得去那儿了。

So I was like, oh, I know I'm going there.

我知道自己非去不可。

I know I'm going there.

我们吃着意大利面，我整个人都快崩溃了。

And so we're eating pasta, and I was kinda freaking out.

到了酒店后，周日我们就彻底放松了。

We got to our hotel, then Sunday, we just took really easy.

而且我是个很虔诚的人。

And and I'm religious.

周日早上我们去了教堂，那对我真有帮助，因为没人认识我。

We actually went to church, Sunday morning, and it was actually really good for me, to just like no one knew who I was there.

没人知道我到底在忙什么。

No one knew what I was doing.

我就只是安安静静地参加了整整一小时的礼拜。

I was just in an hour of a service.

那真的让我平静下来，效果特别好。

And that really calmed me down, which was really good.

后来我去取货，那里气氛一下子变得真实起来。

And then I went to bid pickup and it got kind of real there.

我看到了很多人。

I saw a lot of people.

我看见你了。

I saw you.

我看见谢尔比了。

I saw Shelby.

我看到了好多认识的人。

I saw a lot of people that I knew.

现在上了播客，大家都知道我是谁了，这事儿有好有坏——他们一认出我，就过来跟我搭话，这其实挺棒的。

The fun and cool and bad thing about now being on podcasts and people knowing who I am, they now know who I am and start talking to me, which is really cool.

我很喜欢跟人聊天。

Love talking to people.

你千万别停下，继续跟我聊吧。

Please keep talking to me.

但那时候对话越来越多，别人不断跟我打招呼，我开始有点紧张了。

But it was just like, there was just more conversation and peep you know, that I was it started getting me quite nervous.

后来我终于熬过了那一阵子。

And so actually, was like, got got through all that.

我心里想，算了。

I was like, you know what?

我得赶紧离开这儿了。

I'm ready to get out of here.

所以我们去看了场电影，把脚一翘，早早上了床，能睡多久就睡多久。

And so we actually went to a movie, kicked the feet up, and then we went to bed early and slept as much as I could.

不过说实话，那真挺让人紧张的。

But yeah, it was nerve wracking.

我觉得玛吉当时挺紧张的。

I think Maggie was fairly nervous.

她其实挺紧张的，但又不像真的紧张。

She was I think she was nervous, not nervous.

我觉得她还没完全意识到接下来要面对什么。

I think she was still a little oblivious to what was coming her way.

我得说实话。

I won't lie.

我当时跟她说：‘好了，你该去起点了。’

She was like because I was like, Kay, you'll start the race.

她就回了句：‘好。’

She's like, Okay.

我送你过去，给你加油。

I'll drop you off, cheer you on.

我去睡觉了。

I'm going to go sleep.

我可能去逛会儿街，然后去那边找你，我跟她说，你得自己留意点，谁知道会发生什么。

I might go do a little shopping, and then I'll meet you up at and I told her, I'm like, Well, you have to keep track because you never know what's going to happen.

我一直在跟她说，我可能会到得早一点。

And I kept telling her, I might be early.

这种事是有可能的。

It could happen.

她就说，好。

And she's like, Okay.

结果我真到得特别早，还赶了一趟急，结果引出了别的事。

Well, then I was super early and actually had a hustle up there, which led to other things.

但我觉得她那边还是有点没意识到。

But I think there was a little oblivious on her side.

现在你要是问她，她会说：‘哦，那可不是我会做的事。’

And now if you talk to her, she'd like, Oh yeah, that's not how I would have done that.

其实，我们开车回家的时候，尽管她说不想让我再参加这场比赛，至少她是这么讲的。

In fact, when we were driving home, as much as she doesn't want me doing this race again, at least what she says.

她说，如果真要再办一次，我们就直接飞过去。

She's like, well, if we did do it, we would fly down there.

挺有意思的是，回头想想，我们总觉得那些地方本来可以不一样。

We would you know, it's funny how I think we look back and go, these are the things we would do different.

真挺有意思的。

And it's funny.

她一回想起来，就说：‘我要是再做，肯定这么改。’

She goes through and it's like, I would do this differently.

我们要是在做，肯定这么改。

We would do this differently.

她说：‘你没法再比一次了，但我肯定会这么改。’

And she's like, Well, you can't do the race again, but I would do this differently.

我也这么想。

And I'm like, Me too.

所以我也说不准。

And so I don't know.

也许这反映了我们俩的性格，总想着把事情做得更好。

Maybe that's me and her personality of just trying to continually make things better.

不过说实话，我们当时挺紧张的。

But yeah, we were fairly nervous.

我是真的挺紧张的。

I mean, I was nervous.

我觉得她也紧张，但更担心的是我的心理状态。

I think she was nervous, but more nervous just about my mental health.

是的。

Yeah.

这很合理。

Which is fair.

另外，我们得提一下，Maggie，你们两位都是医生。

Also, we should say that Maggie, both of you are doctors.

所以你们特别有条理，我觉得。

So you're very, I feel like discipline.

你知道自己在做什么，而且总是想做得更好。

You know, just you know what you're doing and I think always trying to improve.

你们起步就比别人占优势。

So you get off from the start.

你们已经踏上自己的旅程了。

You're on your journey.

我们之前做过好多期关于Cocodona的节目。

I'd love we've had a lot of episodes about Cocodona.

对，大家都对这项赛事挺熟悉的。

So Mhmm.

人们大概都知道这个比赛之类的。

People kind of know the race, etcetera.