梅根·艾克特：从晚年跑完第一个半程马拉松，到六天内跑完600英里

对。

Mhmm.

或者他们还没找到适合自己的方法。

Or or they haven't figured out what yet.

比如，跑这个比赛最有效的方式是什么？

Like, what's the optimal way to run it?

是的。

Mhmm.

没错。

Yeah.

这就像我经常跟人说的，关于睡两百分钟的事。

It's just kinda, like, similar thing I tell a lot of people with, like, sleep with two hundreds.

有些人喜欢睡长一点的午觉，有些人则偏爱短一点的，这完全是个人习惯的问题。

It's like some people, you know, they prefer the longer naps, and some people prefer, like, the shorter naps, and that's, like, a very personal preference kind of thing.

特别有意思的是，比赛前期大家的做法其实很趋同，好像都找到了节省体力的最佳方式。

And it is so interesting to say, like, there is, like, convergence early on of, like, this is the way to conserve the energy.

随着日子推移，事情越来越疯狂，这时候个人差异就慢慢显现出来了。

And then as the things get later into the madness, like, throughout the days, like, that's where more of the individuality comes in.

这其实也是挺有意思的一点，因为每次做这种事，你肯定都能学到新东西。

And it's gotta be, like, one of those cool things too because I'm sure you just, like, learn every time you do this.

就像你刚才说的睡眠这件事。

Like, you said, like, the sleep thing.

现在你有了这些工具和方法，了解得更多了。

Like, now you know with the tools and stuff like that too.

比如你参加后院超马或者这类多日赛事时，如果回过头想想，有哪些对你帮助最大的经验？这些经验有没有帮你提升跑步表现，或者你教运动员的时候也分享过？我特别喜欢问这个问题，因为从这些比赛里我们真的能学到很多。

Like, it is a Backyard Ultra or one of these, like, multi day events, like, if you were to think about, like, what are maybe some of the most impactful lessons that you've learned, like, that has helped, like, you as a runner or maybe you've even, you know, shared on with your athletes that you coach and stuff, like, I always I always love this question because we learn so much from these races.

你有没有一些特别关键的经验，或者属于你个人训练哲学里的核心原则？

Like, do you have, like, some impactful lessons that that you or, like, cornerstones of, like, the Megan Eckert training philosophy?

所以

So

我倒不觉得有什么非得称为核心原则的东西，但确实有一些我跑这么多年积累下来的方法，我到现在还是会不断回头去用。

I I wouldn't per se say they're cornerstones, or there's just some things that I've done I've learned throughout running that I just continue to, like, fall back on.

与其说是工具，不如说是动力。

More of motivation than one of those things were their tools.

记得我第一次在德州跑马拉松的时候，路上有坡。

Like, running my first marathon in Texas, I remember there being hills.

我当时就在想，我是跑上去还是走上去。

And I remember thinking, well, I could I could run up these or I could walk up these.

但要是我跑上去的话，我敢打赌后面的人肯定没跑上去。

But if I'm running up these, then I bet you people behind me aren't running up these.

比如说，有时候我会借别人的力，跟着大家一起往前跑。

So, you know, sometimes sometimes I use other people to to pull me along.

而且我觉得，其实在我跑步生涯的早期，一直都是这么做的——比如看到上坡的时候，我就会这样。

And I I I think that every once in a while that I mean, early on, that that was always my philosophy if I saw a hill.

哪怕所有书本都跟你说过要这么做

Even though every book tells you, hey.

你也得明白，有时候放慢脚步反而更明智

You know, sometimes it's smart to walk.

我当时就想，要是我一直在跑，那我就能抢回几秒钟。

I was like, but but if I'm the run one running, then I'm gaining seconds.

对吧？

Right?

虽然现在我不完全这么做了，但比赛时我还是会想，这儿能不能加速一下，省下几秒？

So though I don't apply that completely now, there is some things where I look at, like, when I'm racing, I think, oh, could I do this and save a few seconds here?

或者有没有什么办法，是我能做但别人可能想不到的，能帮我省点时间？

Or is there something that I could do here that maybe other people wouldn't think to do to save some time?

所以总的来说，我在比赛中经常用这种思路。

So that's kinda I I I've used that a lot in my races just in general.

但说实话，我出去跑步的时候，其实是在跟自己较劲。

But, honestly, when I go out, it's like it's me against me.

我一直都这么比赛，这让我觉得最舒服。

And that's, and that's always how I I like to race.

我喜欢设定的目标，完全不看别人跑得怎么样。

I like to set my goals that are irrelevant to everybody else's performance.

我也特别鼓励我的运动员这么做，因为当你设定的目标只关乎自己时，你就能完全掌控它们。

And I really encourage my athletes to do the same, because of the fact that when you set these personal goals that are just based on you, you have full control over them.

这样不仅能带来更大的成就，也会让你在跑步这项运动中获得更深的满足感。

And it it leads to greater success and greater fulfillment in the in the sport, in the event that you're running.

我觉得，说到底，我们出来跑步，不就是为了这个吗？

And I I just I I think because that's I mean, that's what we're out here for.

对吧？

Right?

我们每个人来这里，不都是为了属于自己的那段旅程吗？

I mean, we're all we're all here for some personal adventure.

没错。

Mhmm.

那你的旅程想是什么样子的？

So what do you want your adventure to be?

是的。

Yeah.

我很喜欢这一点。

I love that.

我记得我们过去几年一直在聊这个，听到你这么说真的让人耳目一新，毕竟你赢了那么多比赛。

I think it's I I remember we were talking about this across the years, and it's it is so refreshing to hear that because, right, you're winning these races.

你总是站在领奖台上，各种荣誉加身。

Like, you're on the podium, like, all this stuff.

但你完全专注于自己能掌控的事情——那就是你的表现。

But your complete control is is or focus is on the thing you can control, which is your result.

你根本不会去想别人在哪儿。

Like, you're not thinking about who's here.

你的目标只是让自己更清晰。

Like, it like, the goal is just to clarify.

不是说我要拿第一名，

It's not like, oh, I wanna get first place in rates.

而是我想在外面跑出属于自己的成绩。

Like, I wanna do this out there, like, whatever time.

对吧？

Right?

你是这么理解的，为了更清楚吗？

Is that how you kinda look at it to clarify?

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

太好了。

So good.

太好了。

So good.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得这太棒了。

I think that's awesome.

这其实是个很好的方式，去专注这件事，毕竟生活中大家都这么说。

And kinda like, it's a good way to focus on that because, you know, it's just this is like the common saying in life.

你要是去关注那些你控制不了的事，

You focus on anything outside of your control.

那纯粹是白费劲，因为我们根本管不了那些事，却总盯着它们不放。

It's always futile because we can't control the thing, and we can just focus on the things we can't control.

这太棒了。

It's great.

之前聊播客的时候，我还提到过，我看你在外头特别专注。

And one thing we were talking about before the podcast too is I've seen you be so focused out there.

我觉得专注力是心理韧性最重要的标志之一。

And I think focus is one of the biggest hallmarks of mental toughness.

但很多人其实都没好好利用它。

I think it's very underutilized.

当你能专心做好眼前的事，全神贯注，不被干扰，那才是真的厉害。

Like, I think when you can just focus on the task and just be locked in and just, you know, do the task that's ahead.

那你在外头是怎么保持专注的？

So how how do you stay focused out there?

你有什么特别依赖的东西吗？

Like, what is your like, is there something that you anchor to?

你有没有什么心理上的技巧或者方法？

Like, do you have, like, a mental technique strategy?

我真觉得，最专注的人才能拿到他们当天想要的结果。

Because I truly believe that the most focused are gonna get, you know, the the results that they're out there to get on that day.

从我亲眼见过你比赛，还有你的成绩来看，你在专注这件事上真的做得特别好。

And I I from from what I can, you know, see from what I've seen you run-in person and also just, your results, I think, like, you do the focus piece really, really well.

我觉得人一旦专注了，解决问题的能力也会强很多。

I I do think when people are focused, they're able to problem solve a lot better too.

他们能更清晰地分析自己遇到的状况，然后找到解决办法。

They're able to think through whatever situation they may be going through, and it and they're able to solve whatever problem.

他们能不能在当下这个并不乐观的环境里，给自己营造出一点积极的空间？

Are they able to kind of create, like, this little positive realm for themselves in the moment that may not be so positive?

我同意。

So I I agree.

我觉得专注是跑步中非常关键的心理因素。

I think focus is a huge mental part of racing.

说实话，对我来说，跑步其实特别简单。

You know, I find, for me, running is extremely simple.

不是说它容易，而是它很简单。

Like, not that it's easy, but it's simple.

就是一只脚往前迈，接着另一只脚，很多人都这么说，听上去都听腻了。

It's one foot in front of the other, and I know people say that all the time, and it's so overease.

但真的就是这样。

But it really is.

我刚开始跑步的时候，还记得有一次，工作中遇到问题，跑步时也在想。

It's I I when I first started running, I remember, like, having a problem at work and being on a run.

一整天都在琢磨，想着怎么解决。

And I thought of it all day long and trying to solve this.

然后我去跑步的时候，那个解决方案就会突然冒出来，因为那时候脑子特别清晰。

And then I would go on a run, and that solution would just come to me because your mind's pretty clear.

比赛的时候，我跑步也是一样，真的有这种感觉。

And when I'm racing, I and running, I just I find the same thing.

就是脑子特别干净，啥都不想。

Like, your mind's pretty clear.

你唯一要做的就是跑，尤其是有团队支持的时候——他们帮你把所有事都安排好了，报时间、提醒你该做什么，反正你赛前都交代过了。

The only thing you have to do is run, especially if you have crew, because they're doing all the thinking for you, and they're yelling the times out, and they're telling you you need this, that, and the other thing because you already told them before the race.

但说到底，就是这么简单。

But it's just it's it's just it's so it's so simple.

我能完全沉浸到跑步里去。

I'm able to really lock into running.

我这个人平时脑子特别乱，除非专心做一件事，不然很容易同时想十件事儿，停不下来。

I am one of those people that has a very cluttered mind when I'm not focusing on a single task because it's really easy for me to focus on 10 and ramble forever.

所以跑步对我来说，反而是种放松。

So it's actually, for me, calming.

确实很容易进入状态，因为任何念头一出现，我就能处理掉。

It's it's, yeah, it's pretty easy to lock in because everything a a thought comes in.

我把它放一边。

I process it.

然后过一会儿，又会有新的念头冒出来。

I throw it away, and then another one may come in later.

最终，那个念头可能还会回来，但整个过程就是这么简单，动作和思维都很纯粹。

And, eventually, that one may come back, and it's just this really simple movement and thought process.

你刚才说的，我特别认同。

I I love what you mentioned.

这事儿不简单，但道理很简单。

It's it's it's not easy, but it's simple.

对吧？

Right?

跑步当然难，但说到底，它就是很纯粹，尤其是跟生活、工作，或者我们日常那些乱七八糟的事儿一比。

Like, it's of core like, of course, like, the running is hard, but it is, at the end of the day, super simple, especially when you can like, compare it to the complexities of life or work or just all the other things that we have going on.

跑步的时候，不管是在小径上还是公路上，其实就是一只脚接着另一只脚往前走。

It's like when you're out there on the trail, on the road, wherever you're running, it is just that one foot in front of the other.

我觉得，如果某个说法听起来老生常谈，那往往是因为它确实是对的。

And I would say, if someone's cliche, it usually means it's true.

我很喜欢你提到这一点，因为我觉得这特别到位。

And so I love that you bring that back because I think that that's so good.

当疼痛出现，或者任何困难来了，比如身体吃不消，对吧？

Now when pain enters the picture or whatever, like pain struggle, right?

我们谁都经历过超马，那种腿开始发烫、脑子里的声音越来越大的时刻，几乎是不可避免的。

We've all been there in the ultramarathons, like, where it just inevitably, like, legs start burning, that voice in the head gets loud.

那时候，你怎么才能不失去专注？

Like, how do you not break the focus?

因为说实话，我在比赛中也曾经这样过。

Because I think that's the thing that, admittedly, it's happened to me in races.

我想，几乎所有跑过超马的人，都经历过这种情况。

It happens to, I think, almost anyone who's ever done an ultra.

你怎么能在那种痛苦中还保持专注呢？

How do you not let that struggle, like, break the focus out there?

听起来可能有点疯狂，但对我来说，这是一种感恩的过程。

As crazy as it sounds, it's a gratitude process for me.

我能感受到自己的力量。

Like, I feel the strength.

我能感受到那种能量。

I feel the power.

我确实很疼，但我的身体能做到这一点。

I'm hurting, but it's, like, my body can do this.

知道我虽然疼，却还在继续前进，这反而让我觉得特别有力量。

Like, that's it's kinda it's it's empowering to know that I'm hurting, but I'm still moving.

在结束本期之前，我得大力推荐一个工具，它彻底改变了我的训练方式，也一定会改变你的，尤其是在我们规划2026赛季的时候，我强烈建议大家都试试。

Before we end up in the episode, though, I have to give a huge shout out to a tool that's been a game changer in my training and will be in yours as well too that I highly suggest everybody do as we plan our 2026 season.

这个工具能帮你规划、跟踪和分析训练数据，我一直说，要想从训练中获得最佳效果，关键就是规划好、记录下、分析透，这样才能确保你走在正确的路上，及时调整方向，避免过度训练、受伤，确保你做的每一件事都能真正帮你提速、进步，达成目标。

And this is a tool that will help you to plan, track, and analyze your training because I always say that the best way to get the best results from your training is to plan it, track it, and analyze the data so that that way you can make sure that you are on track, make pivots where necessary, and avoid issues such as overtraining, injury, and just making sure that you're doing the right things that is actually going to help you get faster, make progress, and hit your goals.

这个工具叫 TrainingPeaks。

And this tool is TrainingPeaks.

TrainingPeaks 是个免费平台，你可以用它来规划所有训练计划，训练后分析数据，还能记录笔记和反馈，方便日后回顾，更好地总结训练经验。

TrainingPeaks is a free platform that you can use to plan out all your workouts and analyze the data after the workouts and keep track of all notes, feedback, and things that you can refer back to in order to reflect on your training better.

我自己用了三年多，我们团队也用 TrainingPeaks 来管理每位运动员的训练计划，帮助他们分析和追踪进展，我们这边也能据此跟他们沟通。

This is a tool that I've been using for over three years myself, and we use every single athlete's training program through TrainingPeaks to help them to analyze and track their training that we can use on our end to communicate that as well too.

不仅我们 Everyday Ultra 团队信赖它，全球很多顶尖运动员也用，比如去年西部山区100英里赛的冠军 Abby Hall，还有 UTMB 的两位冠军。

So not only do we trust it here at Everday Ultra, but it's also trusted by many elite athletes around the world, such as the winner of Western States one hundred last year, Abby Hall, and the two winners from UTMB as well too.

如果你想试试 TrainingPeaks，可以直接去 trainingpeaks.com/everydayultra 免费注册使用。

So if you want to give TrainingPeaks a try, you can do so absolutely free by going to trainingpeaks.com/everydayultra.

去试试吧。

Give it a try.

真的特别好用。

It's amazing.

太棒了。

It is awesome.

完全是免费的，为什么不试试呢？

It's a 100% free, so why not?

赶紧试一试吧，这工具特别棒，能帮你很好地记录和分析训练数据。对了，如果你冬天在找适合越野跑的保暖装备，我推荐Janji的产品。

But give it a try because it is an incredible tool that's gonna help you to track and analyze your training Also real quick, if you're looking for trail running apparel in the winter months to keep you warm and moving strong, I suggest the apparel from Janji.

他们做的冬季越野跑服装，保暖又不影响运动表现。

They make great winter trail running apparel to keep you warm and moving strong.

我最喜欢的是Rainrunner Pack夹克，不仅下雨天好用，下雪和刮风天也特别管用，能帮你保暖，而且特别轻。

My favorite items are the Rainrunner Pack Jacket, which is great not only in the rain, but in the snow and windy conditions that is gonna help to keep you warm, and it's super light.

我还特别喜欢他们的越野跑紧身裤，保暖效果很好，还能装很多东西，比如能量胶、软水壶，你需要的都能放得下。

And I love their trail tights, which will also keep you warm, but you can store a ton of stuff in there, gels, soft flasks, anything you need.

冬天出去跑步，甚至都不用再穿背心或戴腰包了。

So you don't even need a vest or a belt if you're going out for a winter run.

推荐你去试试看。

So give them a try.

访问johng.com下单，结账时输入代码everyday ultra，立享九折优惠。

You can get 10% off your order by going to johng.com and use code everyday ultra at checkout for 10% off your order.

就是 johng.com，结账时用代码 everyday ultra，立减一成。

That's johng.com and use code everyday ultra for 10% off your order.

去试试吧，咱们接着听下一段。

Give them a try and let's get back in the episode.

是的。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢这一点。

I love that.

听到你这么说真让人振奋，因为你正经历的困难，其实大伙儿都在面对。

And it's it's so, like, awesome to hear that because, you know, you're you're facing, like, the same struggle that, like, everyone's facing out there.

对吧？

Right?

比如在巴德沃特赛跑跑到80英里时，所有其他选手也都在忍受酷热。

Like, when you're at, you know, Mile 80 at Badwater, everyone else at Mile 80 at Badwater is feeling the heat.

他们的双腿也在承受路面的猛烈冲击。

They're feeling, like, you know, the the the pounding of the pavement on the legs.

但我特别喜欢你这么说，因为你对痛苦的解读方式很特别。

But I love how you say that because it's like your association with the pain.

对吧？

Right?

不是觉得‘哎呀，这太糟了’。

It's not like, oh, this is, like, bad.

而是觉得，不，不是这样。

It's like, no.

我在向前走。

Like, I'm moving forward.

这说明我很强。

This is strong.

你把这种积极的意义赋予它，真的太棒了，正是这种意义的转变在推动着你。

It's like, it's so cool you attach that empowering meaning to it and and just changing that meaning, that association is the thing that fuels you.

并不是说你感觉的疼痛变少了。

Not necessarily do you feel the less pain.

当然，训练的目的就是尽量减少疼痛感。

Of course, you train to feel the less as possible.

但我特别喜欢这种联想，它真的非常有力量。

But I love that association, which is so, so powerful.

你还有其他心理技巧吗？

Do you have any other mental tools in your toolkit?

当你连续六天每天跑一百多英里时，你会切换不同的方法，还是全程都保持这种专注？

When you're running for six days for you know, like like, over a 100 miles a day, like, do you switch different tools, or is it, like, that focus that entire time?

我从来没跑过这么长的距离。

I've never ran that long.

所以我很好奇，当你进入那种状态时，脑子里到底会发生什么？

So I'm curious to hear, like, what happens in the mind, like, when you start getting into that space.

挺有意思的是，我有时候会想起别人在赛道上或跑步时跟我讲过的故事。

It's funny because I drift off to, like, other stories that people have told me on trails sometimes or in a race.

我会想到某个正在远方的人。

I'll think of someone out there maybe.

尤其是在身体状态很差的时候，最简单的想法就是：我得吃点奇多脆。

It'll be as simple, especially in a sick stay, as simple as, like, I'm giving Cheetos.

我会想起在萨尔顿湖那次，热得受不了，一心只想冲到 yeti 补给站，抢那包奇多脆。

And I'll remember the time at, Salton Sea where I couldn't wait to get to the Yeti to get the the Cheetos from the shop because I was so overheat.

然后我就想起当时一起跑的那些人，毕竟81英里得一直结伴而行，最少两人一组，对吧？

And then I'll think of all the people that I was running with there because you have to run with a partner or three people, right, continuously for 81 miles.

接着就想到了自己的补给团队，再往下就想起其中一个队员住在新墨西哥，我曾经和他一起跑过一段。

And it's just and then then you think of your crew, and then and so it's and and then it drifts into, like, the story when, oh, so that crew person lives in New Mexico, and I went on this run with them.

就这样，思绪越陷越深，因为你的大脑和身体一样，随着时间推移慢慢撑不住了。

And so it's it's it's this rabbit hole thing that happens because you you are mentally deteriorating, right, just like you physically are over time.

但最后反而变成了一连串的故事、人和整个社群的回忆，我就会不自觉地沉浸进去。

And but it ends up being like this rabbit hole of stories and people and the community, and I start thinking of that.

然后突然就被拉回现实——有人从旁边跑过，或者你经过一个刚见过的人，他刚去小睡了一会儿。

And then the next thing you're brought back to reality because somebody comes running by or you pass someone who you saw, and they went down for a nap.

你就跟人家打个招呼：嘿。

And you're like, hey.

你回来了。

You're back.

然后你们简短聊了几句。

And then you have a short conversation.

接着你开始听音乐，就这么不停地做着好几件事，让自己一直保持着状态。

And then that it it it's then you're listening to music, and then it's just this constant, like, keeping yourself engaged doing multiple things.

我真不知道该怎么形容这种感觉。

I I don't know how to describe it.

有时候你要是问我，在六天里具体想了些什么，我根本说不上来。

Sometimes if you ask me specifically what I thought of in a six day, I couldn't even tell you those things.

但就是这些零零碎碎的瞬间，悄悄推着时间往前走。

But it's just those random moments that just kind of propel the the hours and the time.

我喜欢这样。

I like that.

这就像是让你的思绪一头扎进各种念头里，顺着那个兔子洞一路往下走。

It's it's like you're you're going down the you're letting the mind go down the rabbit hole, like, of, like, all, like, the different stuff, and you're just you're following the rabbit hole out there.

我其实挺喜欢这样的。

I I actually like that.

我以前从来没这么想过，有时候我觉得自己在跑步时，

I have actually never thought of that because sometimes, you know, I I think I've been on runs.

等等，

I'm like, wait.

不对，

No.

也许我们不该往这个方向想下去。

Maybe we shouldn't go down this rabbit hole.

但这样其实挺有帮助的，因为我完全能想象，你只是，

But it can be actually helpful because I can just totally see you just, hey.

跟着思绪漫无目的地走，把脑子里那些最精彩的故事一个个过一遍。

We're just gonna trail, and we're just gonna go through, like, you know, the greatest hits of the stories in the mind.

我觉得这特别棒。

I think that's super cool.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

我只在长距离比赛时才用它们。

I just save them for the long races.

没错。

Exactly.

就试着吧。

Just try to.

你先把它们存着，然后说：好。

You just bank them and be like, okay.

我们会在六天赛事上把这些片段像看奈飞剧集一样回放，太棒了。

We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna play these back like a like a Netflix series at our at our six day event, which is awesome.

我觉得这种固定时间的赛事也越来越受欢迎了。

I feel like the the fixed time event is also one that's that's getting, you know, a lot more popularity and stuff too.

我们之前聊过关于后院那部分的事。

We talked about, like, the backyard stuff.

那你对固定时间项目是怎么看的？

What what about your approach to the fixed time stuff?

对吧？

Right?

你提到过，在不同时间段找空隙休息，对固定时间比赛特别有帮助，尤其是当你能经常停下来，或者和团队频繁休息的时候。

You mentioned that, you know, finding time at different pockets can be really helpful in those fixed time events for sure, especially when you can, you know, stop at the table pretty frequently or stop with your crew frequently.

如果有人真想把二十四小时或四十八小时的比赛搞定，来找你问：‘梅根，我到底哪里没做好？’你觉得关键该从哪儿入手？

Like, where where do you feel like if someone really wants to nail like, if they come to you and they're like, Megan, like, I really you know, why don't I nail this, like, twenty four hour or forty eight hour?

你觉得，要想在固定时间比赛中表现出色，训练和参赛时最重要的几点是什么？

Like, where what do you feel like are the biggest keys to success to training for and nailing a fixed time event?

我觉得得能接受那种单调感。

I think being okay with, like, the monotony.

因为这种比赛就是重复的，如果你要跑得快，肯定得在一条非常单调的赛道上跑。

And because it is a repetitive you're you're if you're gonna run a fast one, you're gonna be on a course that's monotonous.

对吧？

Right?

任何一段长距离，你两到三英里都见不到队友，时间肯定会被拉长。

Anything long where you don't see your crew for two or three miles is gonna reduce your time.

但我认为，关键还是多去环形跑道或者田径场练习，反复跑圈，让队友帮你递东西。

But I, you know, I think a lot of it is, like, just getting out on a loop course or getting out on a track and practicing just doing just doing those rounds, having your crew hand you something.

我和我丈夫就试过，去健身房，那种室内场地。

I mean, my my husband and I have done it where we go over to the gym, and it's an indoor.

说实话，我其实不常这么做。

I think it's I I don't do it very often.

我觉得一年也就做过四次左右。

I think I've only done it four times in a year.

但我还是会去，就在那条220米的跑道上，一口气跑完11英里。

But I'll go and just do 11 miles on this 220 meter track.

天哪。

Oh, my god.

是的

Yeah.

我偶尔也会做一次，就为了提醒自己，这就是那种感觉。

And I do it every once in a while just to remind myself of, hey, this is what it feels like.

这就是环形赛道的真实体验。

This is, you know, what the the loop course is like.

你能加入一个团队吗？

Can you get into a group?

但一开始真的特别难受。

And the thing is is it is it it is horrible at first.

简直煎熬到极点。

Like, it is absolutely miserable.

你刚绕完一圈，又回到起点，旁边的人就开始议论：‘她又来了。’

You're right back to where you started, and then then you have people going, oh, here she comes again.

她又绕回来了。

She's coming around.

所以整个过程真的挺煎熬的。

And so it it it it's pretty miserable.

但在训练的某个阶段，我会突然感受到一种状态——好像能一直这样循环下去。

But then at some point in that that training block, I get in that feeling of, like, I can continue doing these loops.

我觉得训练中找到这种感觉特别重要，因为一开始真的特别难受。

And I think it's important to find kind of that feeling in training because initially, it really sucks.

那些关卡确实很难熬。

Like, the hoops really are tough.

如果你能挺过训练初期的难关，体会到那种节奏稳定、行云流水的状态，那等到比赛时，你就会记得这种感觉。比如你刚开始可能跑得快了点，或者像我们大多数人那样，起步太快，硬撑一阵子。

And if if you can get over the hump in training and feel where it just seems more consistent, something that flows, then you'll remember that when you start that race, and you're maybe going a little faster or you're, maybe like we all do or a lot of us do, start out a little fast and hang on for a bit.

那时候你会更难受。

Like, it's gonna hurt you a little more.

但你已经准备好迎接那个阶段了——当你的节奏稳定下来，循环也变得自然的时候。

You're gonna just be ready for that time where you settle in to that pace and you settle into those loops.

是的。

Yeah.

这样挺好。

That's that's good.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我喜欢这个训练方式。如果有人是按固定时间训练，你觉得他们该多频繁地做这种重复性练习呢？

I like that prac do you feel like if if someone was training for a fixed time, should they do it like, how often should they be doing, like, a monotonous loop and training?

我是这么想的，

Like, should it be because because on one hand, I think about it.

一方面，你当然想多练来积累经验，但另一方面，又怕练得太枯燥，最后练到厌烦，甚至觉得痛苦——你平时是怎么平衡的？

It's like, should you do it to get a lot of practice, but then do you also risk, like, almost, like, boring yourself to the point where it's, like, becomes dreadful on like, how do you how do you approach it?

你会不会经常做这种单调的训练？

Like, do you do, like, a lot of monotonous stuff?

我记得你提过，你每年只在室内跑道上练四次。

I know you mentioned you do that indoor track, like, four times a year.

但如果你是为了某个固定目标在训练，你会大部分时间都用那种比较枯燥的方式跑里程，还是会分散开练？

But if you're training for a fixed time, do you do most of your miles in kinda, like, a monotonous fashion, or do you kinda spread it up?

比如，你会怎么分配这些训练量呢？

Like, how do you kinda distribute that?

我的意思是，我基本上只做那些让我觉得有趣的事。

I mean, I do mostly everything that's fun.

对。

Yeah.

基本上除了那四次之外，其中两次是在室内跑道跑的，另外两次是在沙漠独居之前跑的。

I pretty much like, other than those those four that I do and two was before an indoor track and two was before Desert Solstice.

所以除了那四次，我平时想跑就跑，想骑就骑。

So other than those four times, like, I'm usually I'm I'm out running whatever I wanna ride.

不过我确实有一条上下班时每天重复跑的固定路线。

Now I do have a monotonous route I run to and from work every day.

所以我上班跑步时有三四条不同的路线可选，但距离都差不多。

So when I run to work, I have, like, three or four different options, but they're they're about the same distance.

每天早上坐的都是同一班火车。

It's the same train every single morning.

所以，不管你是睡过头了，还是天气不好，我照样会出去跑。

And so, I mean, that that part of it, when you're when you wake up late or the weather is not great or, I mean, I still get out there and do it.

这大概就是我那种心理耐力的单调训练了。

So that would probably be my mental toughness monotonous training.

所以我现在就把这个加进去了。

So I am adding that in.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

For sure.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

天啊，我真的很敬佩那些跑步通勤的人。

Man, I've I have so much respect for the run commuters.

这太棒了。

It is awesome.

每当我想到下班后还得跑步，就会觉得，居然有人每天上下班都靠跑步，真是了不起。

Like like, the anytime I'm like, I I think about, you know, having to run run after work, I'm like, there's people running to work and then home at the same time.

这真的特别有激励作用，太棒了。

It's just so so motivating, which is awesome.

但我完全能理解，这种习惯很容易让人上瘾。

But definitely can see how that can get them in on this.

不过我想聊聊有趣的一面，因为我觉得这特别重要，虽然我以前觉得跑步训练和乐趣是冲突的，但现在明白其实不然。

But I wanna touch on that fun part because I think that's so important, and I think that's something that I it's obviously wrong, but I can see how people can get the like, almost see them as mutually exclusive.

对吧？

Right?

好像一旦你开始按计划训练，就不能太放松，得一直绷着，是这样吗？

It's like, oh, if I'm training following a plan, you know, I can't have as much fun because I'm on structure.

或者有些人觉得，如果我玩得太开心了，我就

Or people, like, if I have too much fun, I

没法按计划来。

can't be on

跟不上计划。

the plan.

对你来说，你是怎么平衡的呢？既要遵守训练计划，又能玩得尽兴，既不偏离目标，又能从越野跑这种充满冒险的训练里榨出最大的乐趣？

So how do you for you, like, how do you balance, like, being on a plan but also having fun in a way where, you know, you're staying on track but also, like, getting the most juice out of the squeeze of the training that, you know, we also love of of adventure running?

你是怎么做到这两者的平衡的？

Like, how do you balance those two things?

我其实没什么固定计划。

I wouldn't say I really have a plan.

对。

Mhmm.

那太好了。

Oh, good.

抱歉，刚才说到哪儿了。

Sorry with that.

对。

Yeah.

我心里大概有个数，比如这周结束前想爬升多少海拔，如果是在备战山地赛，还有大概想跑多少英里。

I have an idea of, like, maybe how much elevation I wanna get by the end of the week and maybe if I'm training for a mountain race and then about how many miles I wanna get.

但每次出门跑的时候，我根本不知道自己今天会跑多远。

But when I go out each day, I have no clue how far I'm gonna run.

所以我的训练安排比较随意。

So my training is pretty loose.

我可能会下班后晚上去跑步，然后心想，今天状态真好。

I may start running in the evening time from work and be like, I feel amazing today.

今天打算练练速度，所以会跑快一点。

Today is gonna be a speed day, so I'm gonna pick it up.

但也有一些日子，我会觉得，好吧。

And then there's days where I'm going, okay.

身体今天提不起劲儿。

Well, body's not feeling it.

三英里就回家了。

Three miles home.

你懂的。

You know?

我的训练计划非常宽松，但我相信跑步本来就该是件开心的事。

So I have a very, very loose plan, but I do believe that it should it's not it should be fun.

当然，我们也有艰难的训练日。

Like, it should always I mean, we we have our tough runs.

总会有些意外情况发生。

We have our stuff that happens.

但总的来说，跑步就该是件快乐的事。

But for the most part, running should be fun.

备战巴德沃特比赛时，我刚跑完第六天。

Training for Badwater, I I was coming off the sixth day.

第六天参加了一场公路赛。

Sixth day was a road race.

我当时一直在公路上跑。

I was over the roads.

跑完第六天，我根本不知道自己怎么撑得下去，还要准备巴德沃特赛，那比赛太消耗精神了。

Like, I had no clue, when I was done with Sixth Day how I was gonna do Badwater and, like, mentally be in it because it's so demanding also.

所以备战巴德沃特的时候，我就开始跟着约翰·卡帕斯训练。

And so training for Badwater, like, that's when I did John Kappas.

那时候我整天在山里徒步，走的都是非铺装小路。

That's when I was up hiking in the mountains off trail.

那会儿我几乎所有的跑步里程，除了上下班路上那点，全都在山路上完成。

Like, that's when I was, like, I was doing almost all my miles other than my run commute miles.

我其他所有的里程，基本都安排在小路上，就是因为我非得这样不可。

All my other miles miles were pretty much on trail just just because I I needed that.

我其实并不指望身体能有多大提升。

I didn't necessarily need a physical gain.

我只是需要调整一下心态。

I just needed a mental.

我需要好好放松一下脑子。

I needed a mental break.

我需要在心理上有所提升。

I needed I I needed a mental gain.

对我来说，那段时间我就决定去山里徒步一个半月到两个月，不管具体多久，反正不再刻意为巴德沃特训练。

And for me, that was I'm gonna run on trails for a month and a half or two months, whatever it was between, and not really worry about training for Badwater per se.

我会做耐热训练。

I'm gonna do my heat training.

我会让自己适应高温，但主要是去享受过程。

I'm gonna be ready for the heat, but I'm gonna go have fun.

真厉害。

Wow.

这一点真的很重要，因为你可以想象，如果换作别人，刚跑完六百英里、连续六天在公路上，那种状态……

That is so important to reflect on because I can see in a scenario where, you know, if anyone was in that, the you know, you just ran 600 miles, six days, like, you're on the road.

你一直在路上跑。

You're on the road.

然后突然间，如果还非得继续在公路上训练，最后到比赛时反而累垮了，那可就糟了。

And then all of a sudden, being in a position where it's like, oh, I need to if you were, like, to be like, I need to, like, keep training on roads to then show up and just be burnt out.

但你反而更看重心理上的清晰、乐趣和新鲜感，而不是死磕特定的训练方式。

But instead, you prioritized, like, the mental clarity, the funness, the novelty as opposed to the specific training.

结果你跑出了超棒的巴德沃特成绩，女子第二名，简直太厉害了。

And you had an amazing Badwater too, like second second woman, which is amazing.

所以这么说，保持乐趣反而比精准训练更重要。

Like so it's almost like the preservation of having fun is, like, more important than specificity.

你觉得是这样吗？

Would you agree with that?

我完全同意。

I totally agree with that completely.

没错。

Yeah.

因为你不管跑多快，不管目标是什么，只要站在起跑线上，就必须得把心态准备好。

Because because you have to like, to show up on the start line of any race regardless of the pace you're running, regardless of your goals, like, you you have to be mentally in it.

我的意思是，你说什么？

I mean, how many what?

有多少人最后停下来，说‘我心思根本没在上面’？

It how many people stop and say, oh, my mind just wasn't with it.

对啊。

Mhmm.

这种事经常发生。

It happens.

我也经历过。

I've done it.

我有次比赛中途退赛了。

I've DNF'd a race.

因为那时候我心思根本没在上面。

My mind wasn't with it.

我当时根本想不通，怎么撑过这场突然降温了15度的比赛。

I couldn't couldn't process how I was gonna get through this race that had suddenly dropped 15 degrees colder.

我其实只需要一件外套就行。

And I was I all I needed was a jacket.

但那时候我心理上没跟上，比赛才刚开始，我就没意识到该去拿件外套，根本没想着：我得找件外套。

But mentally, I wasn't with it enough, and this was really early on, but I wasn't with enough to get a jacket to think, oh, I need a jacket.

我就需要这么一点东西。

That's all I need.

有这个我就没事了。

I'll be fine.

我很高兴我们聊到这个，因为真的特别重要，这种情况我们确实经常看到。

I I love that we're talking about this because it is so important, and we do see it.

我也经历过。

And it's happened to me.

这种事几乎每个练得久的人都会碰到，训练时你得把心态调整好，这样到了比赛日才会更兴奋、更清醒、更专注，整体上也更享受。

Like, it's happened, yeah, I think, to almost anyone who's been in the sport, like, long enough of, like, you have to, like, have your mind, like, be in it in training because it's gonna allow it to be excited for race day, be more clear, like we mentioned, be more focused, and overall just have more fun.

因为我觉得，如果你参加一场比赛，连一点乐趣都没有，那几乎可以肯定，成绩不会好。

Because I think if you drop anyone in a race that's not going to be at least somewhat fun, like, I would venture to guess it's very, very high chance of not a great result.

你懂的。

You know?

没错。

Right.

完全对。

Exactly.

就像我带学员的时候，他们总会说：嘿。

It's it's like when people when I'm coaching someone and they say, hey.

或者跟别人聊天，他们也会说：嘿。

Or even talking to someone and they're like, hey.

我该怎么做？

What should I do?

你建议我第一场50公里、100公里，或者第一个100英里该怎么准备？

What what do you recommend as my first 50 or my first 100 k or my first 100 miler?

我就问，那你最喜欢什么？

And I go, well, what do you love?

你最喜欢待在哪儿？

Like, where do you like to be?

因为如果你跑的地方是你真心喜欢的，你最容易取得好成绩。

Because you're gonna have the most success if you're running someplace that you love to be at.

对。

Mhmm.

这个角度真的特别好，特别到位。

It's that is such a good, good, like, way to look at it too.

而且，人们真正热衷去训练的目标，也都是这样。

And also, like, the things that people, like, love to train for and everything is such too.

其实，越野跑里更应该多强调乐趣这一点。

Like, that is just there there needs to be more emphasis on fun and ultrarunning.

你听我说。

Like, listen.

我觉得很多人都能看到这一点，但有时候外界对超马的印象就是：必须很苦、很难熬。

I like I think a lot of people do see that stuff too, but sometimes you can see I think ultrarunning from some crowds get a get a view of, like, it has to be tough.

好像非得吃苦、受罪才行。

It has to be you know, you have to suffer and everything.

但其实我觉得，乐趣才是提升表现的关键，比硬撑着咬牙坚持管用多了。

But in reality, I think the fun is a performance enhancer more than just, like, gritting it through white knuckling, like, through the training and everything.

我觉得咱们得让超马一直保持有趣。

And I think I think we need to make ultrarunning consistently fun.

2026年的宣传口号就该是这个。

Like, that that should be the campaign for 2026.

如果你能把那些恶劣的条件，比如极端的环境，变成一种有趣的挑战、一场游戏，那你就赢了。

And then and then if you could turn that, like, that tough conditions, like, those brutal conditions, and you can turn them into something fun, like a challenge, like a game, oh, you're golden.

你一边受罪，一边玩得特别开心。

Like, you're having this this fun, horrible time.

完全没错。

100%.

我太喜欢这个了。

I I love that.

你有没有过，比如，自己设计过什么游戏？

Do do you have any, like, memories of, like, a way that you made, like, a game?

我知道你提过，比赛时有时候记不清事，但有没有哪个例子是你印象特别深的？

Like, whether it's like, I I know you mentioned sometimes you don't remember at races, but do you have, like, an example of that, like, that comes to mind for you?

我第一次参加六天赛，是在威斯康星州密尔沃基的穹顶体育馆。

So my first sixth day, actually, was at in in the dome in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

对。

Yeah.

我刚完成第三天的比赛。

And I came off of the third day, finishing the third day.

那时候感觉特别差，状态很糟。

I believe it was finishing the third day, and I just didn't feel great.

我当时觉得，跑步这事儿根本不可能继续下去了。

Like, I thought that was like, running, I didn't think running was possible.

我当时觉得，什么都再也提不起劲了。

I didn't think, you know, anything was gonna pick back up.

这时，一位经验丰富的前辈走过来，跟我说：嘿。

And one of the more experienced gentlemen came by, and he said, hey.

你跟我一起跑一小段吧。

Run with me a little bit.

我心想：天哪。

And I'm I'm like, oh my gosh.

我觉得我根本跑不动了。

I don't think I can run.

他说：别这么说。

He's like, no.

来吧。

Come on.

你已经在跑了。

You're running.

好吧。

Okay.

我跟在他后面，心里想着：可别被他甩了。

So I'm hanging behind him, and I'm like, don't let him drop me.

我绝对不能掉队。

I'm not gonna get dropped.

我走路一瘸一拐的，努力让肌肉放松下来，但就是下定决心不能被落下。

But I'm, like, hobbling, you know, trying to get the muscles loosened again and everything, but I was determined not to be dropped.

突然间我意识到，我居然在跑步，而且跑出了好几天都没达到的速度，之前那几个小时我有点不对劲，好像是神经出了点问题。

And then all of a sudden, I realized that I'm running around, and I'm hitting these paces that I hadn't hit in a couple of days because I had had a minor, like, I don't know what was going on, some nerve thing going on for a couple hours or a few hours or whatnot.

可我现在跑出的速度，是之前根本没达到过的。

But I'm hitting these paces that I hadn't paid that I hadn't been hitting.

于是我心想：等等。

And so then I'm going, oh, wait.

我能不能每次都跑出这个速度？

Can I hit that every time?

对。

Mhmm.

于是我盯着计时器，一圈一圈地跑。

And so I'm watching the time clock, and I'm running these loops.

我的目标，我想，是三百零五。

And my goal, I think, was, like, three zero five.

所以我一直在想，每次绕回来的时候，我能跑出三百零五吗？

So I'm like, can I hit three zero five every time I come around?

每次经过时我都会看一眼时钟。

So every time I'm checking the clock.

我在外面的时候，大概玩了三十六个小时这个游戏。

And I must have played that game for thirty six hours when I was out there.

当然，中间我也有走路休息，去睡了觉，吃了东西。

Of course, I had some walking breaks in there, and I went and slept and everything and ate.

就是走一走、吃点东西，再接着跑的循环。

Like, I had some walking, eating loop.

但跑步的时候，我脑子里总想着：这次能跑出三零五吗？

But when I was running, the game was always, can I hit three zero five?

这种小目标，真的特别管用。

And so little stuff like that, it always it always helps.

就像越野跑里的一些小目标一样。

Like or or little goals like in a trail race.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

在越野跑里，我最期待的就是夜深人静、完全漆黑的那一刻。

I can't wait in a trail race to get to the point at night when it's completely dark.

你离补给站老远了。

You're away from an aid station.

周围一个人也没有。

Nobody else is around you.

我总想等到那个时刻，然后打开头灯。

And, I always try to hit this moment where I can turn my headlamp on Mhmm.

或者关掉个一两分钟，就静静地看着星星。

Or off for, like, a minute, two minutes and just stare at the stars.

所以对我来说，白天天气炎热、环境恶劣，我得往身上敷冰、猛灌水、努力补充电解质的时候，我就会想，好吧。

And so that's something that for me, in the day when it's hot and it's brutal and I'm, like, putting ice on and I'm chugging water and I'm trying to keep my electrolytes right, I'm going, okay.

今晚，我就能关掉头灯，好好看看星星了。

Well, tonight, I'm gonna get to turn my headlamp off and look at the stars.

所以这些小事，不需要多大，但正是这些小小的期待，能激励我撑过那些艰难的时刻。

And so those little things, they don't have to be big, but those little things can be such motivators to get through some of those tougher moments.

哦，我太喜欢这个了。

Oh, I love that.

这就像是在科科尼诺森林里挂着一根胡萝卜。在塞多纳和弗拉格斯塔夫，如果你选在晚上跑，景色简直太棒了。

It's like it's like a carrot, like, at the even in Cocodona, like, it's outside the skies in Sedona and Flagstaff, if you hit, like, either at nighttime, are amazing.

这就像是在科科尼诺最热的路段，比如前37英里，或者任何特别热的路段，给你设的一个小目标。

It's like a carrot for the first 37 where it's super hot and you're like or whatever hot section of Cocodona.

到了晚上，你就可以关掉头灯了。

You're like, at night, get to turn off the headlamp.

甚至把这些小目标当成游戏，哪怕只是三百零五米，或者盯着眼前这点路，这种心态本身就很了不起——把困难的过程变得有趣，这简直是个超强的心理工具，太棒了。

Or even having those games, to even have it as small as three zero five or looking at this thing, I think that orientation of, like, having the game and making it fun even when, you know, you're in the middle of the hard stuff, like, that in itself can be a huge mental tool, sounds like, which is super cool.

没错。

Definitely.

每个人都有自己的方式。

And everybody has their own.

我特别喜欢问别人：你最怕的是什么？

Like, I love asking people, like, what what fears?

是啊。

Yeah.

你呢？你最怕什么？

What's yours?

你平时靠什么？

What what do

你有什么招？

you have?

是的。

Yeah.

真的。

Seriously.

对我来说，我喜欢做的一件事就是数东西。

What's So for me, like, what I like to do is I will count something.

比如科科多纳，因为我们之前聊过这个。

So, like, Cocodona, for example, like so because I know what we were talking about.

我在科科多纳和弗拉格斯塔夫的时候，那里到处都是树。

So when I was in Cocodona and in Flagstaff, you go to Flagstaff, there's trees everywhere.

我就想着，干脆数一数有多少棵树吧。

And I was like, I'm just gonna count how many trees there are.

那里的树多得数不清。

There's, like, a million trees.

所以你根本不用担心会数完。

So it's like, you're never gonna run out.

你懂的吧。

You know?

所以你就想，行吧。

So you're just like, alright.

我就数树吧。

I'm just gonna count trees.

实际上，我分了几段来数。

So, like, literally, I would there's, like, a few sections.

就是一条土路，两边全是树，一连好几英里都是这样。

It's literally just a dirt road with just trees everywhere, and it's like that for miles and miles and miles.

于是我就想，好了。

And so I would just be like, all right.

一、二、三、四、五、六。

One, two, three, four, five, six.

你根本不会去想腿有多酸。

And you don't even think about, like, how bad your legs hurt.

你根本不会注意到脚上起了水泡。

You don't think about the blisters on your feet.

我就只是数数东西。

I just, like, count stuff.

或者要是我跑的是跨年那种环线，说实话，我那时候在跑马拉松。

Or if I do, like, a loop, like, across the years, like, now granted, like, you know, I was doing the marathon.

你跑的可比我远多了。

You were doing much, much longer than me.

但你知道吗，哪怕只是26英里，也会让人觉得重复。

But, you know, even even at 26 miles, like, you can get repetitive.

但我总喜欢在每圈里找点新东西，因为虽然跑的是同一条路，但总能发现以前没注意到的细节。

But I always like to, like, find something new on every loop because it's like it's like, oh, like, you know, you run the same thing, but I was like, there's always something new you didn't see before.

所以只要我跑的是固定时间或者像Javelina那种反复绕圈的路线，我都会刻意留意每圈的新发现。

So I always I always like to see new things on every single loop if I'm doing a, like, a fixed time or, like, a repetitive course like javelina or something where you're just running the same loop over and over again.

我也会去数树。

I'm gonna be counting trees.

就是这样。

There you go.

好。

K.

帮我数清楚所有的树。

Count all the trees for me.

咱们可以比比谁数得更准，我那会儿状态可能也没好到哪儿去。

We can we can compare we can compare counts and see, see who is, who is, more more accurate out there because I probably was not in my state out there too.

聊聊Cocodona吧，这比赛已经跻身年度超马经典赛事之列了，我觉得。

For Cocodona, let let's talk about that because that's the one that's it's made its way into the Mount Rushmore, I think, of Ultras of the Year too and stuff.

是什么让这场比赛让你这么兴奋？

So what about that race gets you super excited?

训练方面呢？是什么让你特别期待？

What about the training gets you super excited?

你之前提到过，要把各种要素拼在一起。

And you mentioned putting together the pieces.

不过你有没有考虑过，今年跑Cocodona的时候，训练上有没有尝试什么新方法？

But you know, like, do you like, how how are you, like, looking at the approach of, like, maybe any new things that you're trying out in training if you are going into, Cocodona this year?

我特别期待Cocodona，因为去年我跑的基本上都是公路赛，数量也不少。

I'm really I'm really excited for Cocodona because this past year has been a lot of road, a lot of, quite a few road races.

但其实我大部分时间都是跑山地跑的。

And, primarily, I've been a trail runner most of the time I've been running.

所以Cocodona对我来说，就是重新回到山地赛道。

So Cocodona is, like, back to trails.

今年春天，我又能跑山地了。

Like, this this spring, I get to be on trails.

我能专门为山地赛训练了，这让我特别兴奋。

I get to train for trail races, and that to me is extremely exciting.

而且我还能把擅长的长距离发挥出来。

And then I get to merge, like, this distance that I I tend to do well with.

我跑得越久，表现越好。

Like, I I do better over time.

我不是那种跑50公里很快的人，但你让我跑得越久，我表现得越好。

I'm not a quick 50 k runner, but the longer you have me out there, the better I'll do.

所以我现在能把这两场50英里的比赛加进训练里。

And so I get to add in, like, those two fifty miles.

我正在把两件我最爱、也最擅长的事结合起来，看看最后会怎么样。

So I'm I'm I'm I'm doing kind of these two things that I love and that I'm good at, and I'm kind of putting them together and seeing where the chips will fall.

这真让人兴奋。

So it's exciting.

这是全新的体验。

It's new.

我以前从来没尝试过这样的挑战。

It's something I've never approached before.

我听说过这条赛道。

I've heard of the course.

我听过很多关于这条赛道、沿途补给站、当地人和支援团队的故事。

I've heard stories from the course, the places, the aid stations, the people, the support.

归根结底，是这个社群让我一直回来参加越野跑比赛。

And the community ultimately is what, like, keeps me coming back to the trail races.

一般来说，越野跑的氛围特别好，大家都互相支持，一起待着特别开心。

It's just, in general, trail races just tend to have a really good supportive, community that's just it's fun to hang out.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

所以训练的时候，我就能更多地在山路上跑。

So training, like, specifically is just I get to be more on trails.

没错。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢这一点。

I love that.

就这么简单。

So simple.

对。

Yeah.

真简单。

So simple.

你那边呢？圣达菲应该也很适合吧，你们那儿不是也有很多沙漠地形吗？

Are you I mean, Santa Fe is probably a pretty good area for it too because you do you guys have, like, a lot of desert stuff out there too?

是的。

Yes.

我们这儿沙漠地形多得很，冬天也能找到不少高海拔路段可跑。

We have plenty of desert stuff out here, plenty of elevation to to hit even in winter.

就算下大雪，低海拔的地方照样有不少路能跑。

So even if we get a good snow, there'll still be plenty of stuff to get down lower.

而且，雪地跑的里程算双倍。

Plus, I mean, snow miles, they they count as two.

所以你得尽量别摔倒。

So, you know, you gotta try to stay upright.

确实如此。

That is true.

肯定算双倍积分。

They are definitely double for sure.

没错。

For sure.

这太棒了。

Well, that is awesome.

我们特别期待在Cocodona赛道上见到你，也看到你飞驰而过的身影。

Well, we're so super stoked to see you out there for Cocodona and seeing you rocket too.

最后一件事，我可不能不问，你一年参加这么多比赛，真是太厉害了。

The last thing that I I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about because, you know, you do a lot of races in a year, which is so awesome.

我知道有些人总想着：真想多参加几场赛事。

And I know there's some people like, I wish I I wanna do more races and stuff.

所以我很好奇，你是怎么安排恢复的？

So I have to ask about recovery for like, how do you approach recovery?

关于恢复工具，你最推荐的是什么？

What's your biggest suggestions on recovery tools?

你一年参加这么多大赛，这可是很多越野跑者的梦想。

Because you do a lot of big races in one year, which is a lot of Ultrarunner's dream.

我们当然希望身体保持强壮，不受伤，这些都很重要。

And we want to be sure our bodies are strong without injury and all that stuff, too.

当你面对一整季密集的比赛时，怎么在赛间安排恢复，才能不仅从上一场中恢复过来，还能以最佳状态迎接下一场比赛？

So when you're looking at a big season and everything you're doing, how do you look at recovery between those races to not only recover from that race but to show up to the next one feeling as strong as you can?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得‘强壮’这个词很关键。

I think strong is a key word there.

其实，你的恢复从比赛之前就开始了。

So, like, your recovery starts actually prior to the race Mhmm.

通过力量训练。

With your strength training.

对。

Yes.

这一点是最关键的。

That is, like, number one.

如果你在参赛前体能充足，赛后恢复也会更好。

If you're strong going into a race, you're gonna have a better recovery afterwards.

我还觉得，赛后清楚自己真正需要什么，这一点极其重要。

I also think that being very mindful of what you need post race is extremely important.

作为教练，我通常不会擅自安排赛后恢复跑之类的训练，除非运动员自己提出需求。

I as a coach, I am very hesitant to schedule post race, like, recovery runs and so on without athlete input.

因为对我来说，恢复没有统一的标准方法。

Because it is to me, it is not there's no cookie cutter method to recovery.

每个人的情况都不一样。

It is really individual.

我曾经因为太拼而受伤了。

I went out to hurt.