220. 你不是有身体形象问题，而是对品牌里斯·拉德纳有信念问题

其实，那种安静的时刻比我们想象的要频繁得多。

There's this quiet moment that happens more often than we realize.

你正准备开始一天，或者路过镜子时瞥了自己一眼，没怎么想，脑子就开始自动扫描了。

You're getting ready for the day or catching your reflection as you walk by a mirror, and without even thinking about it, your brain starts scanning.

挑毛病、分析、判断：今天是不是适合当个好伙伴的日子，还是算了。

Picking, analyzing, deciding if today is a good buddy day or maybe not.

就这么一眨眼，你的身体就成了你看世界的滤镜。

And just like that, your body becomes the lens that you see everything else through.

它悄悄影响着你如何表现自己、怎么跟人相处，甚至让你觉得，连上帝摆在你面前的事，你都没法好好去承接。

It starts to shape how you show up, how you interact with other people, even how available you feel for the things that God has placed right in front of you.

今天，我跟来自‘恩典满桌’的布兰迪斯·拉德纳坐下来聊了聊。

Today, I'm sitting down with Brandice Lardner from Grace Filled Plate.

她走过自己漫长的食物与身材焦虑之路，现在正帮助其他基督徒女性，透过恩典与信仰的视角，活出真正的自由。

She's walked through her own long journey with food and body image, and is now helping other Christian women step into freedom through a grace filled faith centered lens.

在这次对话里，我们轻轻揭开那些身材焦虑念头底下真正藏着的东西，也发现，这挣扎远不只是自信不够那么简单。

In this conversation, she and I are gently uncovering what's really underneath those body image thoughts and why this struggle might be about so much more than just confidence.

来，坐近点，咱们好好聊聊。

Pull up a chair, friend, and let's talk about it.

嘿，神的儿女。

Hey there, woman of God.

欢迎来到恩典中的饮食自由。

Welcome to faith filled food freedom.

你是不是厌倦了那些关于食物和身材的念头，天天在你脑子里闹腾？

Are you tired of those nonstop food and body thoughts running the show?

也许你半夜刷手机，搜着‘怎么才能不再讨厌自己的身体’，或者盯着秤上的数字发愁，怎么就是走不出这个怪圈。

Maybe you're caught in the late night Google spiral of how to stop hating my body or stuck stressing over calories in the scale wondering why it feels impossible to break free.

姐妹，我懂你。

Girl, I see you.

我也曾经跟你一样。

I've been there too.

我是布里塔妮，营养师，也是一枚重度情感依赖者，曾经深陷完美主义，被减肥文化彻底俘虏。

I'm Brittany, a dietitian, needless lover, and recovering perfectionist who fell hard for diet cultures.

全是谎言。

Lies.

我以前以为，只要长得好看、吃得‘对’，就能让自己感觉完整。

I thought looking a certain way and quote unquote eating right would make me feel whole.

后来我才明白，圣经里到底怎么说食物和我们的身体，以及我们的价值究竟从何而来。

Then I discovered what scripture actually says about food and our bodies and where our worth comes from.

我跟你说，这比任何节食法或者健身网红的潮流都强多了。

And let me tell you, it's better than any crash diet or fit SPO trend out there.

在这个播客里，我们把科学的营养知识和心理健康策略，加上满满的恩典，帮你甩掉食物愧疚，修复身体形象，真正活出你本该拥有的自由。

Here on this podcast, we're mixing evidence based nutrition science and mental health strategies with a whole lot of grace to help you ditch the food guilt, heal your body image, and finally step into the freedom you were made for.

把那些减肥书都扔了吧，拿起你的圣经。

Pass out the diet books and grab your bible.

你的饮食自由之旅，就从这里开始。

Your food freedom journey starts right here.

大家好，欢迎回到《信心饮食自由》的又一周。

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another week on faith filled food freedom.

布兰迪斯，我知道听众们从开场已经对你有了一些了解，但我特别想今天请你深入聊聊。

Brandice, I know the listeners got to hear a little bit about you from our intro, but I would love for you just to dive in today.

能不能简单介绍一下你自己，还有你平时做些什么？我们马上要谈身体形象这个话题了。

Tell us just in a nutshell who you are and what you do as we get ready to hop into our topic about body image today.

当然没问题。

Yeah, you betcha.

我叫布兰迪斯·拉德纳，在‘恩典满桌’这个平台工作，主要帮助像你这样的基督徒女性，通过信仰找到饮食自由，用圣经的视角来看待改变。

So my name is Brandice Lardner and I'm over at Grace Filled Plate and I help Christian women similarly to you, Brittany, find food freedom through their faith, really seeing changes through a biblical lens.

对我自己来说，这个转变是经历了几十年与食物的拉锯战才来的。

And for me, it came through decades of struggling with food.

我最早开始这段旅程的时候才14岁，说出来可能有点老，但那时候正是超模风靡的年代。

I first started on my journey when I was about 14, so I'm really gonna date myself, but this was back in the era of like the supermodel.

所以我报名参加了一个小小的模特培训学校。

And so I signed up for a little modeling school.

那时候，我开始特别留意自己的身材，总觉得哪里都不够好，必须得改。

And at that particular time, I started just noticing my body and feeling like I needed to change things.

从那时起，我真正开始了节食、饮食失调和暴食的循环。

And that was the beginning of really what started dieting, eating disorder, and overeating.

该试的疗法、心理咨询，我都试了个遍。

And I checked all the boxes from therapy to counselors.

连圣诞节期间我都住过院接受治疗。

I even went to inpatient treatment over Christmas.

说白了，那时候住院 cheapest，正好趁便宜。

I mean, because it was cheapest over Christmas.

可我就是怎么也走不出来。

And I just could never like get on the other side of it.

直到主带我走上一条路，教我怎么把祂的话用在实处——我们知道圣经是答案，但关键是，当你站在镜子前、站在冰箱前挣扎时，该怎么活出那话。

And it wasn't until the Lord took me on this journey of learning how to apply his word, which we know is the answer, but really how to apply his word when I'm struggling in front of the mirror or when I'm standing in front of the fridge.

主就是用这种方式把我带出来的，也让我能用这段经历去帮助别人。

And that was how he brought me out, and that's really how he's used it for me to help others.

祂把这一切都转化了，这真的太棒了。

So he's redeemed it, and that's pretty awesome.

是的。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢我们俩都热衷的这件事——不仅关乎营养和身体健康，还涉及灵性、心理健康，以及和食物自由相关的内容。

I love that that so much of what we're both passionate about blends not just nutrition and physical health, but also the spiritual and mental health and food freedom side of things.

今天我们不一定会深入聊食物自由这个话题。

So we're gonna not necessarily dive into only food freedom today.

我更想和你聊聊身体形象这件事。

I really feel like just having a conversation around body image.

其实这方面的内容太多了。

And really, there's so many ways.

你提到过，身体形象的困扰不只是来自模特课的经历，更是在照镜子时，看到身体一点点变化，那种感觉。我很多听众，哪怕已经从饮食失调中完全康复了，或者根本没得过这种病，每天还是会被这种念头缠住：觉得自己的身体哪里不对劲，必须得改一改。

You you talked about how your body image was impacted, not just going through the the modeling class, but also just generally when you look in the mirror and as you start noticing your body changing in so many of my listeners, even those who are fully recovered from an eating disorder or those maybe who have never had one, but they constantly struggle on the day to day with body image feeling like there's something wrong with their body or they need to fix it.

这种困扰真的太普遍了。

There's so much of that going on.

作为营养师，也作为专门帮助基督徒女性重塑身体形象的教练，我发现，关于基督徒女性如何面对身体形象这个问题，根本没人好好谈过。

And as a dietitian and as a a body image coach for Christian women in this similar way, there's just not enough conversation around what that looks like, for Christian women.

我知道你经常聊到身体形象的困扰，我们怎么看自己的身体，其实深深影响着日常的决定，包括和他人的关系和连接。

So I know that you talk a ton about body image struggles and how the way that we view our body really shapes a lot of our day to day decisions with our relationships and our connection with other people in general.

我觉得很多女性都没意识到，我们对身体的看法，居然会跟别人有这么深的关联。

I don't think women realize how much the way we view our body connects to other people.

现在肯定有很多听友心里在想：‘布列塔尼、布兰迪斯，我知道身体形象很重要。’

And so let's say we've got probably so many of these women listening who are going, well, you know, Brittany, Brandice, I know body image is important.

我知道这很重要，但我真不知道它到底对我有多大影响。

I know it matters, but I I don't know how much it's impacting me.

我说不清是影响很大还是很小，但我觉得在饮食文化下，‘身体形象’该是什么样子，简直天天在变。

I don't know if it's a ton or a little I feel like with diet culture, the definition of what body image should look like changes so much.

对你来说，从你自己的经历，或者你接触过的女性身上，有哪些比较隐蔽的迹象，说明身体形象已经占了太多时间、太多空间，甚至在我们生命里抢了主的位置？

So what for you are some of the more subtle signs that either from your from your own story or from women that you have worked with, what are some of those signs that body image has really started taking up too much time or space or maybe even authority in our lives over the Lord?

‘权威’这个词真贴切，因为确实如此。

Authority is a really good word because it does.

谁有权威，谁就能左右别人的行为，而身体形象带来的影响，往往就是这么微妙。

And someone who has authority over another dictates what they do, and that can be the subtlety of body image.

我觉得可以先从做个温和的旁观者开始，看看自己平时是怎么想的，纯粹出于好奇，然后你就会突然意识到：哎呀，糟了。

I think it can help by, first of all, looking as a gentle observer in our own lives, just out of curiosity, because then we're gonna move on to this and we're gonna go, oh, no.

我原来也这么干过。

I'm doing that wrong too.

但这可不是我想传达的核心。

And that's not the heart of this message.

你得开始留意，到底是什么总在你脑子里打转。

It's like start to pay attention to sort of what occupies your thoughts.

你每天花多少时间在琢磨自己的身材上？

Like, what percentage of your time do you spend thinking about your body?

对我而言，那可是每天好几个小时。

And for me, it would have been hours a day.

你可能没这么严重，但回头想想，那时候我的脑子全被它占满了，根本没空间去跟主说话，也没心思去想象他为我预备的未来，更没空去留意身边那些正需要帮助的人。

That might not be your listener, but now that I look back, it was literally taking up all the space that the Lord wanted me to speak to him, that he wanted me to daydream about the things that he had in my future, that he wanted my eyes to be open to the people around me who were hurting and in need of help.

所以当我意识到自己花了这么多时间在这件事上，我就更有动力去反抗了——因为我们从来不是故意说：‘好吧，我分点时间给它’。就在我们开始录之前，你还提到时间过得真快，对吧？

And so when I look at just the amount or the percentage of time that it takes, then I start to get a little bit more feisty in fighting back because we're not willingly saying, oh, let me just, you know, give time or when before we started recording, we were talking about how fast time goes.

对，就是这样。

And, like Yeah.

我们并不是故意要……

We're not purposely saying, hey.

我接触的那些女性，可能你接触的也是，她们其实特别关心别人，也特别愿意付出，可这个困扰却完全俘获了她们，一点余地都不留。

I wanna waste, like, time thinking about this stuff because for the most part, the women who I work with and probably the women who you work with really care a lot about others and really care about serving, and yet this struggle has just taken them hook, line, and sinker.

所以当你意识到它占用了多少心思，就可以用圣经的话来过滤——比如腓立比书第四章，那里说要思想真实、美好、值得称赞的事。

So noticing how much space it takes up, and then when it does take up space, you can really filter it through God's word where in Philippians four, he tells us to think about things that are true and lovely and of good report.

你不妨看看这节经文，问问自己：

And so look at that verse and say, okay.

这些想法符合这些标准吗？

How are these thoughts measuring up?

不是为了苛责自己，而是因为你值得拥有更好的生活，不该被困在这里。

Again, not from judgment, but because you deserve more than to stay stuck in this place.

这样你就会更清楚地意识到：我又在琢磨穿什么、谁会来、照片里我看起来怎么样了。

And that will really help you to notice, like, I'm really thinking about what to wear or who's gonna be there or how I might look in that photograph.

我错过了太多聚会、太多活动，就算去了，也根本不在状态，满脑子都是自己在别人面前吃了什么，或者跟房间里其他女人比来比去——我哪儿比得上她们？

I missed so many parties, so many gatherings, or even if I went, I wasn't present because I was so concerned about what I was eating in front of other people or comparing myself to the other women in the room, like where did I measure up?

说出来真不太好听，但那时候我确实就困在那儿了。

And it's hard to say because it's not a pretty way to think, but that was where I was stuck.

但只要你能觉察到这一点，就会自然想往上走，说实话，真正困住我们的，是那个敌人。

And so just noticing it can create that desire to come higher because honestly it is the enemy that is keeping us stuck.

他知道上帝为你预备了计划。

He sees that God has a plan for you.

祂有你的使命，如果能让基督徒女性被身材焦虑分心，那正是他想达到的目的。

He's got a purpose, and if he can keep us distracted, if he can keep Christian women distracted by body image, then that's sort of the purpose behind it.

这大概就是我的想法。

And so that would be my thoughts.

对吧？

Right?

留点心，看看你自己现在陷在哪儿了。

Just pay attention and see where you're at.

是的。

Yeah.

我经常跟学生和客户聊到这种分心的问题，但说实话，我都记不清是从哪儿听来的了。

I feel like I have that distraction conversation with my students and clients on a regular basis, And I don't even remember where I heard it.

好一阵子了。

It's been a while.

不过如果你听过这么一句话——你们听的时候可能也听过——魔鬼要是没法让你犯罪，他就让你节食。

But if you have ever heard the saying as you guys are listening that, you know, if the devil can't make you sin, he's gonna make you diet.

对吧？

Right?

或者让你过度关注自己的身材。

Or he's gonna make you overly focused on your body.

结果就成了让人无法脱身的困扰。

And it becomes this all consuming distraction.

我觉得分心的方式其实有很多种。

And I think distraction can show up in a lot of different ways.

当我们老是分心，总想着自己、想着身材，或者那个完美的理想形象时，这事儿真的太容易了。

It's it's really easy when we're so distracted thinking about ourselves or about our bodies or this ideal perfect image.

只要我能瘦掉几公斤，或者穿上那条特定号的牛仔裤，我就会更有自信了。

If I could just lose x amount of weight or get into such and such blue jeans size, I'm gonna feel more confident.

所以人们很自然地就把身材变化、体重变化跟‘只要我达到这个目标，我就会更有自信’挂上钩。

And so it's really easy to connect, you know, body change or weight change to, hey, if I get to this, then I will feel more confident.

我们总觉得，自信一来，身材焦虑自然就解决了——有些人甚至把这两者当成一回事。

And we think, well, confidence will just improve my body image or some people like to use them interchangeably.

对吧？

Right?

总觉得身材形象迟早会变好。

Like, body image is always gonna improve.

可它变好了，自信也就跟着来了；但对很多听我说话的人来说，情况可能恰恰相反。

And as it improves, I'm gonna get more confident or it maybe it's for so many of you listening at the opposite.

他们觉得：除非我的身材形象改善了，否则我永远都不会有自信——两种想法都有。

Like, I'm not going to feel confident until my body image improves like both.

它们得同时发生，或者至少得互相影响。

They need to happen interchangeably or sometimes at the same time.

我知道你以前跟布兰迪斯聊过这个，你特别喜欢把话题从‘自信’转向‘身份认同’。

And so I know a conversation that you've had before Brandice that you like to lean into is really not talking about body image just as it relates to confidence, but as it relates to our identity.

当我们看待或感受自己的身体时，我们到底在认同什么？

And what are we really coming into agreement with when it comes to how we see or feel about our bodies.

你能说说看吗？你是怎么看到身体形象其实成了一个内心问题，甚至信仰问题的？

And so speak into this area of how have you seen body image really become like a heart issue or a discipleship issue even?

不是简单地说‘我自尊心低’或者‘我没自信’这种表面原因。

Not rather than just like, well, I have low self esteem or I have low self confidence.

是的。

Yeah.

完全对。

Absolutely.

说来有趣，当你静下心来想想，我们拼命想达到的那种形象——社交媒体上说的那些标准——其实根本就是随机的。

Well, you know, it's funny because when you really sit and think about it, our particular image that we're aiming for, right, the social media is saying is the goal is random.

我的意思是，你仔细想想，我常拿摆餐桌来打比方。

I mean, really, if you think about it, I I like to relate it to the way we set a table.

比如甜点叉放这儿，沙拉叉放那儿。

Like, your dessert fork goes here and your salad fork goes there.

可为啥呢？

Like, why?

就是有人随便定了个规矩，就这么沿袭下来了，可不是上帝定的。

Just somebody at some point in time decided this is the way we're gonna do things, and it wasn't God.

根本不是上帝定的。

It wasn't God.

这成了个巨大的干扰。

It becomes a huge distraction.

如果我们老盯着负面想法，这种思维模式就算体重变了也改不了。

And as we sort of keep our mindset on the negative, it's it's a way of training that isn't going to shift when our size changes.

我以前身材变过好几次，但那种不满足感，一直都没变过。

Like, I remember being a variety of sizes in my life and the discontentment was always the same.

要是我能达到那个目标，我就开心了。

Oh, if I could just reach x y z, then I'll be happy.

哪怕有点小变化，我还是不开心，因为当你老盯着缺点看的时候，你总能找到不满的地方。

And something could change a little bit and still was unhappy because when our eyes are looking for something to criticize, they're going to find something to criticize.

对。

Yes.

你想想生活中其他方面，对吧？

So think about in other areas of your life, right?

比如跟伴侣相处，如果你总挑对方的错，那婚姻肯定特别累。

So like in your relationship with your spouse, like if you were always looking for the things they did wrong, you'd be really your marriage would be really difficult.

或者家里，你眼里只看得到脏乱和地上的玩具，那你怎么可能开心得起来？

Or if your house, all you can see is the negatives, like the dirt or the toys on the floor, you're never gonna be happy.

说到身材形象，我不得不做出一个顺服的选择。

And when it comes to our body image, I had to make a choice from obedience.

上帝的话教导我们，要在一切境遇中心存感恩。

God's word tells us to be grateful in all circumstances.

不是说非得达到某个身材、头发卷得完美那种才算数，对吧？

Not like when we're particular size or our hair is perfectly curled or whatever it could be, right?

就是所有情况，不管怎样。

Like all circumstances.

我以前老是唉声叹气、挑三拣四，他的话真的戳中了我，因为我其实是在悖逆中生活。

And so the fact that I was moaning and complaining and always finding something to complain about, he really pricked my heart because I was walking in disobedience in a sense in that.

耶稣是带着爱来到我们身边的。

And Jesus comes to us with love.

他不会让你感到羞愧。

He's not giving you shame.

他带着恩典来，是因为他呼召我们活出更高的生命。

He comes with grace because he's calling us higher.

所以我必须做出选择，在这件事上顺服，把感恩当成一种肌肉来锻炼。

And so I had to make a choice to be obedient in this area and to use gratitude for what I had like a muscle.

但说实话，这真的很难，我记得第一次有人跟我说‘你该感谢上帝赐给你这副身体’的时候。

And so it was really hard though because like I remember the first time someone told me to like, oh, just thank God for your body.

我简直不敢相信，居然就这么翻过去了。

I like, I like rolled over, like I couldn't believe it.

有时候我们只看外表会觉得很难，但如果我们开始留意那些美好的地方就好了。我特别鼓励女性去图书馆找本儿童科普书，看看关于身体、消化系统、眼睛怎么工作的，或者上YouTube看看耳朵、心脏是怎么运作的，让自己对上帝造你的奇妙感到着迷。

And so sometimes hard when we look just externally, but if we can start to pay attention to the things that are great, and I like to encourage women to even go to the library and get a kid's book on, like, your body or the digestive system or how your eyes work or go on YouTube and watch some videos about your ears or your heart and get fascinated with the way that the Lord has knit you together.

皮肤只是你整个人微不足道的一部分。

This skin is just such a small part of who you are.

然后，选择感恩。

And then choose to be grateful.

主啊，谢谢你让我能看见云彩，能感受到触觉——就像那些科学研究说的那样。

Thank you, Lord, that, like, I have eyes to see the clouds and the sensation of touch, like research.

这背后到底是怎么发生的。

How that happens.

你用手指碰一下东西，信号就传到大脑，你就能感觉到它。

Just touching something with your fingers goes to your brain, and then you can sense it.

主啊，谢谢你让我能摸到宠物或孩子的毛茸茸的皮毛，也能听见音乐。

Like, thank you, Lord, that I can touch a pet or a child and feel the, like, fluffy fur, or I can hear the music.

当我们真正这样转变视角的时候，就会更贴近上帝。

And when we start to really, change our perspective in that way, it draws us closer to God.

这能帮助我们活出感恩的顺服。

It helps us walk in obedience of gratitude.

我跟你保证，你可能不信，但这真的会改变你看待自己的方式。

And I promise you, you might not believe me, right, but it will change how you see yourself.

因为你一旦换种眼光看自己，就会更容易用温柔和爱的方式照顾自己。

Because when you see yourself differently, it becomes a lot easier to care for yourself in a really nurturing and loving way too.

所以，这也是实现温和营养、在你需要时好好善待自己的好方法。

And so that's a great way to work towards that gentle nutrition or giving yourself a break when you really need it.

当你把身体看作是上帝创造的艺术品、杰作时，这种心态真的会带来很大帮助。

And when you see your body as a work of art or a masterpiece that the Lord created, that will really help a lot.

我觉得你刚才提到的这一点特别有力量，我见过很多女性因此受益。

I think something you just mentioned is really powerful, and I've seen it be so effective for so many women.

当你看着自己的身体时，试着像对别人一样跟它说话。

When you look at your body, even speaking to your body like you would somebody else.

就像你现在老了一些似的。

Like you were older.

对吧？

Right?

你跟过去的自己对话，十年前、十五年、二十年、三十年前的自己。

And you were talking to yourself back, you know, ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty, whatever years ago.

你可以用这种更温柔的视角，跟自己的身体聊聊，说：嘿。

And you can have that kind of conversation about your body or even to your body with that, you know, more grace filled perspective going, hey.

我现在能看到一些你当时看不到的东西，因为你正陷在里面，很挣扎，但你以后不会这样感觉了。

I can see something now that I know you can't see because you're in the midst of it and you're struggling, but you're not gonna feel that way.

你不会再这样看待自己，或者自己的身体了。

You're not gonna see yourself or your body that way.

三十年后，你跟身体的关系绝对不是现在这样。

You're not gonna have this kind of relationship with your body in thirty years.

但我们真的很难把自己代入那种状态，因为当你被困在一段艰难的经历里时，情绪会完全左右你的想法和判断。

And it's so hard, think, for us to put ourself in that mindset because when we're stuck in the middle of something that feels hard, all the feels tend to affect our thoughts and our rationale.

你一开始要是总盯着负面的东西看，那眼里就全是负面的。

You you mentioned when you start, know, looking for the negative that's what you see.

你们要是回听一下前十到十二期的节目，虽然标题没明说，但我觉得应该是第15期，讲的就是大脑里的网状激活系统。

And as you guys are listening to this if you go back, I don't know, ten or 12 episodes, we have an episode on like, it's not in the title, but I think it's episode two fifteen on essentially what the reticular activating system is in your brain.

所以我们脑子里那些乱七八糟、自己听了都嫌烦的念头，其实是有原因的。

And the reason why our talk is so loud, all that crazy talk we have in our head that feels crazy to us.

这不叫疯，很正常。

It's not crazy.

它出现是有道理的，不是无缘无故的。

It's it's there for a reason or it happens for a reason.

所以想改变对身体的看法，得有意识地去调整。

And so being able to adjust the way that we think about our body takes intentionality.

对吧？

Right?

这不是随便就能发生的，得主动去做到。

Like, it's not something that just happens by accident.

你不可能某天一觉醒来就突然想，‘哎呀，我要开始好好夸自己的身体了’。

You don't just wake up one morning and then go, oh, I think I'll just start thinking all these great things about my body.

这得靠大量的练习才能做到。

It takes so much of that practice.

我接触过很多客户都验证了这件事，布兰蒂斯，你平时接触的女性客户里应该也见过同样的情况：要真正能用更积极的眼光看待自己的身体，首先得找出我们一直信以为真的那些错误念头，再把它们替换成正确的观念。

And something that I have found to be true with so many clients, and you've probably seen this this told true for you, Brandice, as well with the women that you work with, is that in order to really start seeing your body at a better light, oftentimes, we've got to identify what those lies are that we're believing and then replace them with truths.

所以我特别想请你聊聊，最常见的那些和身体形象有关的……

And so I would love just for you to share what are some of the most common body image.

我之所以给‘真相’这俩字加引号，是因为这些事只是当我们深陷负面情绪里的时候，才会信以为真的。

I'm gonna say quote unquote truth because these are things that maybe we believe to be true when we're stuck in the midst of it.

这些观念根本不符合圣经教义，全是我们自己瞎编出来的‘真理’。我见过太多女性被这种想法影响，就说教会圈里吧，哪怕是在教会里，至今都还有好多扭曲的身材焦虑、节食减肥的论调，这真的让我特别难受、特别生气。

Things that aren't necessarily biblically founded that we have just told ourselves are true that you've seen women absorb, I'm gonna even just say within the church culture because I hate and it makes me so sad that there's still so much disordered negative body image diet talk even within the church.

还有太多教会给人带来的伤害，可能是一些出发点不坏的人随口说的，也可能是一些人根本没意识到自己说的话有多伤人，最后就造成了伤害。

And so many so much church hurt that can come from people who maybe were well meaning or people who just had no idea what they were saying.

但我们也得适当给这些人一点理解和包容。

We gotta give them a little grace too.

但你有没有听过一些女人在教会里，或者从小在家庭中，被灌输的那些关于身体的想法？听起来好像挺正常，甚至没什么大不了，但实际上根本不符合圣经的真理？

But what are maybe some of those things that that you've heard women believe about their bodies within the church or maybe just growing up in their family that maybe sound normal or sound not so bad, but they're really not in alignment with the word of God?

对，就像我之前说的，我们每个人都有自己的呼召，我经常听到一些女生说，她们得先达到某个体重，才能迈出人生下一步。

Yeah, kind of echoing where I was talking about the calling we have in our lives, I hear a lot of gals talk about how they need to be a certain size before they can take that next step in their life.

好像体重成了简历上的一条硬性标准，‘哇，她终于达成目标体重了！’

Like it's this qualification, this line on your resume, like yay, she reached your goal weight.

但你要明白，上帝要你去服侍、去帮助的那些人，根本不在乎你秤上显示的数字是多少。

But here's the thing, the people that God is calling you to minister to, to help, they're not concerned one iota about your number on this scale.

他们在乎的是，你能不能认真听他们说话？

What they wanna know is can you listen to them?

你能不能真正陪在他们身边，和他们聊天？

Can you be present with them in a conversation?

你能不能和他们一起祷告？

Can you, you know, pray with them?

你能不能像耶稣那样去爱他们？

Can you love on them like Jesus?

我觉得，理解真正的美，对吧？

And I think understanding that beauty right?

我们总觉得自己得瘦下来，才能上敬拜团队，站在教会前面。

We're gonna say, I have to lose weight to be on the worship team and be in front of the church.

还有姐妹会说：我连食物都管不住，怎么去帮助别人呢？

Or, I'll also have ladies say, like, you know, how could I help other people if I don't have self control around food?

但当你真正开始去服侍别人，活出神给你的呼召，那种满足感一来，吃饭和身材这些事就慢慢不那么重要了。

But it happens, like, when we start to walk out administering to others and we find that fullness through living out what God has called us to do, things like food and body image start to take a backseat.

就像我们之前说的，你不再整天纠结这些了。

Like we're talking about before, we stop ruminating about it all the time.

可如果你心里总想着‘我得达到某个标准才能行动’，而这个标准其实是魔鬼或过去的经历编出来的，那你就是在剥夺自己进入下一个自由季节的机会。

But when you have this cavern of what am I supposed to do, and I'm not going to step into it until I reach a certain place that the enemy made up or our history is made up, then we're depriving depriving ourselves of the very thing that's going to help us step into that next season of freedom.

所以我觉得，这种想法真的很普遍。

So I think I hear that a lot.

总觉得自己得先达到某个状态，神才能用我——其实完全相反。

Like, I I need to reach a certain space before I can be used by god, and that's, like, the exact opposite.

神想用你这个不完美的人，因为祂要透过你传递的信息，正是别人需要听见的。

God wants to use you imperfectly because that's the message he has for other people.

我们不会对孩子说：‘你只有完美了才能快乐。’

We wouldn't tell our kids, oh, you're only gonna be happy when you're perfect.

不会的。

No.

去放手做你能做的，信靠神会补足你所有的不足。

Go out and do what you can and trust that God will fill in the gaps for you.

我也注意到，确实很常见，我们的身体总被当成一个项目来改造。

I also see, yeah, it's just very common where our bodies are a project.

就是啊，你最近在忙什么？

Like that's the thing, what are you working on?

你最近在吃什么？

What are you eating?

我懂，咱们在教会里，可能确实不会去做一些别人会做的事。

And I get it, like we're in the church, so we might not be out doing some things that other people might be doing.

你知道吧，我们不去开派对，也不搞那些别的活动。

You know, we're not doing the parties or doing all of these other activities.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们老是把注意力全放在吃上面。

So we think we focus in on the food.

我经常在教会后头帮忙，给志愿者们安排区域。

And I I will often I serve at church in the back and set up the section for the volunteers.

我老待在后头，听见大家闲聊，最常见的话题就是：‘你这能吃啥？’

I'm back there all the time where people are chitchatting, and it's a very common conversation of like, what can you eat?

你这道菜是怎么做的？

What is the recipe that you made?

你是怎么调整这个或那个的？

How are you adapting this or that?

从某种角度说，选些能让你更有活力、更好地服事主的食物当然好，但这不该成了一种爱好。

And in some sense, it's great to make choices that fuel you, that help you serve the Lord well, but it's not a hobby.

这么说倒也没错。

Isn't like That's a way to put it.

对。

Yeah.

这确实会分散注意力，就像你说的，布里塔尼，讲得太到位了。

This can be a distraction, like you said, Brittany, so well.

用上上帝赐予你的恩赐去做祂原本要你做的事，才能真正让你在前行的路上找到平安。

And using your talents for what God created them to be for will really help you find that peace in moving forward.

是的。

Yeah.

我特别认同这一点，因为我觉得很多女性都深信一个巨大的谎言——觉得自己必须达到某个身材标准，才能胜任某个角色，否则别人就不会认可你。可你明明在说一件事，别人却只盯着你的体型或外表，觉得你不配。

I love that because I think that's a that's a huge lie that women tell themselves is true so often when, you know, I have to reach certain x y z size before I can serve in this capacity or people are gonna see me and what if I'm saying one thing but they think my body size or appearance doesn't match whatever this thing is.

我甚至听其他营养师也这么说：‘我体型不够标准，所以没人会认真当我是营养师。’

I hear the same thing even from other dietitians who say, I'm not a certain body size so people aren't gonna take me seriously as a dietitian.

但我总觉得，在教会里这种情况更严重。

And I'm like, like but I feel like it's even worse in the church.

天啊，说这话真让我气炸了。

And, oh, that makes me so crazy to say that.

但听到这些谎言，我的心真的好痛。

But hearing those kind of lies, it it just hurts my heart.

我得一遍又一遍地告诉姐妹们：你翻遍任何一本圣经，都找不到什么BMI指数表。

And I had I have to tell women I have to remind women all the time, like, in no bible that has ever ever been printed will you find a BMI chart.

哪里写着服事主还得看体重或身材大小？

Will you find a weight or a body size requirement to serve the Lord?

你得经常提醒自己，或者让别人帮你提醒，这点太重要了。

And I think that can be, you have to give yourself those reminders or have other people speak into you.

我觉得这真是个大问题。

I think that's a huge problem.

比如说，现在有个人正被这些想法困住，

So, like, for someone who let's say we have someone who is believing some of these kind of lies right now.

我都不该说‘这些想法’，简直是特别丑陋、特别伤人的谎言，关于她们的身体。你真想帮她们更贴近神的话语。

I shouldn't even say kind of these, like, very, very ugly, very intensive lies about their body, and you want to help them align with the Lord's word some more.

那你有没有什么推荐的经文或者原则，能先推荐给他们，跟他们说，

Are there any specific verses or principles maybe that you would push them to first to say, hey.

你得先认准上帝话语里的真理，从这些内容开始入门就很好。

You really need to make sure you were aligned with truth from god's word, and here's a here's a good place to start.

有的，我特别喜欢圣灵所结的果子那段经文。

Well, I really love the fruit of the spirit.

我做辅导的时候经常用这段来帮大家筛选要养成的习惯——很多人会说“我要做ABC这些事，听起来都挺好”，但你得先想想，这些事最后会给你的生活带来什么结果？

It's I use it in coaching a lot of the time just in even filtering what habits someone is going to practice because you might be like, oh, I'm gonna do x y z, and this sounds really great, but what's the fruit of that in your lives?

毕竟适合别人的方法不一定适合你——可能是你在网上刷到的法子，也可能是你闺蜜用着挺好的经验

Because what works for one other person, right, you might have read it on the Internet or it might work for your best friend.

放到你自己身上可能就完全水土不服，这其实很正常

In your life, it may just feel like a square peg in a round hole, and that's okay.

你说对吧？

Right?

圣经里说要凭着果子认出树来，看一件事能不能行也是这个道理，你也可以用这套标准来衡量自己的生活习惯

And so when we can look at the fruit of something, and the Bible says to judge a tree by its fruit, well, I think you can do that with habits too.

当你换了一种思维方式，或者开始以新的方式照顾自己时，结果会怎样？

When you're in a certain way of thinking or when you've shifted into a new way of caring for yourself, What's the outcome?

我特别喜欢这一点，因为它不再纠结于我们做的是对还是错，而是真正去判断一件事是否适合自己。

And I really like that because it takes it away from whether we did something good or bad, and it's truly deciding if something is working for us.

这能帮你活出爱、喜乐、平安、忍耐、恩慈、温柔、信实，最后才是节制。

Is this helping you walk in love, in joy, in peace, in patience, in kindness, gentleness, right, faithfulness, and self control is last.

这不挺有意思吗？

Isn't that interesting?

我们总以为关键就在于节制。

We think it's all about self control.

就觉得我只要管住自己就行了。

Like, I just need to have self control.

但当你内心真正平安，凡事先寻求主的时候，最有效的习惯，其实是那些让你喜乐、让人羡慕的——别人一看你就说：‘我想拥有你这样的生活。’

But when we're at peace and when we are doing things where we're seeking the Lord first, the habits that work the best are the ones that are going to make us joyful and actually like someone that people say, hey, I want what they have.

所以我建议大家好好反思一下，你现在到底处在什么状态。

And so I would encourage the listeners to really examine where they are.

我现在到底在关注什么？

Like, what am I focusing on right now?

这有帮我培养出圣灵的果子吗？

And is it helping me to grow in the fruit of the spirit?

如果没有，有没有别的做法，能让我更开心，也更能去服事人？

And if it isn't, is there another way that I could do it that's going to make me happy and better able to serve?

因为我们做事情，应该是让我们成长，而不是耗光我们的精力。

Because we want the things that we do to grow us, not to detract our energy.

所以从想法变成实际习惯，这方面我经常往这个方向想。

And so that really is where I go a lot with things from thinking to actual habits, etcetera.

那咱们先就这个多聊两句。

So let's let's dive into that for just a second.

说到习惯，当有人说：

When it comes to habits, when someone says, hey.

我真的想跟上帝的话对齐。

I really want to get aligned with God's word.

说到身材焦虑，或者想通过饮食之类的办法改善身体健康，你觉得女性在策略层面，第一步最该做什么？

When it comes to my body image, when it comes to maybe improving my physical health through nutrition or other means, what would be just maybe one practical first step that you would encourage women to take when it comes to the strategic side of like, okay.

我想朝这个方向走。

I'm I wanna move in that direction.

听完这期节目后，如果有位女性说：‘我准备好迈下一步了’，

What is something that after listening to this episode today, the woman who says, hey.

那她该从哪件具体的小事开始呢？

I'm ready for the next thing.

你建议她今天就先做点什么？

What's one practical step you would encourage her to take today?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得特别有用的是，先把所有你觉得自己‘应该’做的事全倒出来。

Well, I think it's really helpful to just do a massive brain dump of everything you think you should be doing.

比如好点子——多喝水，这主意就不错。

Like, good ideas, like drink more water, like, that's a pretty good idea.

那些不靠谱的想法，比如改变自我对话——我们总是被各种好点子轰炸，这挺好，但坏点子也一大堆，你的大脑根本不是用来装这么多信息的。

Bad ideas, you know, changing self talk, like, you've we're constantly hit with great ideas, and that's wonderful, and lots of bad ideas too, and your brain was never meant to store all of that information.

把今天听到的那些想法，哪怕只是零星几点，都赶紧写下来，特别有帮助。

It can be really helpful to take even the things you've heard today and just start jotting them down.

我管这叫‘点子库’。

I call it an idea vault.

这样你就不用老在那儿纠结：这个该不该做，那个该不该试？

That way you don't have to keep thinking, should I do this and should I do that?

等你写在纸上之后，就祷告吧。

And once you have it out on paper, just pray about it.

对吧？

Right?

如果你是信徒，已经邀请耶稣进入你的心，那很好；如果你还没，一定要找我们聊聊——但无论如何，圣灵已经在你里面了。

If if you're a believer and you've asked Jesus into your heart, and if you haven't yet, definitely reach out to one of us, but you have the Holy Spirit in you.

祂就是你的安慰者。

He's the comforter.

祂是你的导师。

He's the counselor.

祂就是智慧本身。

Like, he's wisdom himself.

所以你可以祷告，跟主说：好吧，主啊。

And so you can pray and be like, alright, Lord.

这是我最近觉得该做的所有事。

Here's all the list of things I feel like I should be doing.

祢要我做什么呢？

What are you leading me to do?

然后你拿支红笔或者粉笔，把那些不行的全划掉。

And you get, like, a red marker or a pink highlighter and x out all the things that, like, no.

这主意不好。

Bad idea.

我知道，这事我不干。

You know, I'm not doing that.

黄色的那些，我也不太确定要不要做。

And yellow things, like, I'm not really sure about.

然后挑出绿色的项目。

And then find the green items.

哇。

Wow.

这听起来真是不错的自我照顾方式。

That sounds like really good self care.

哇。

Wow.

感觉这样我会更有精神，也能更轻松地照顾家人。

That feels like it would make me feel refreshed and able to, like, serve my family more easily.

这些都是好习惯。

These are good habits.

当你列出了绿色项目，就选那些让你觉得兴奋的。

And when you have that list of what's green, pick what feels exciting to you.

我是说，成长的过程总会有点折腾，所以用‘让人兴奋’来形容可能不太对，应该是能让你提起劲儿的。

I mean, it doesn't have to be like, sometimes when we grow, there's a little stretching, so maybe exciting isn't the right word, but invigorating.

这样选出来的事才是你能长期坚持的，而且你是真心想去做的，就从这开始起步。

It's going to be sustainable in your life, but you actually want to do it and start there.

先从一件特别简单的事做起就行。

Start with something really simple.

我之前就提过，我去看一些儿童科普内容，或者了解一些关于自己身体的基础常识，那段时间对我改善身体焦虑特别有用。

At the beginning, I talked about how helpful it was for me and my body image to dive into things like children's resources or really simple facts on things about your body.

然后你可能会突然反应过来，哎，你知道吗？

And you might be like, you know what?

这事我也能做到啊。

I could do that.

比如说，我自己有个小孩，

You know, I have a a kiddo.

那我们就能一起坐下来看这些视频；或者我打算每天都写下来五件自己身体里值得感恩的事。

We could sit and watch these videos together, or every day, I'm gonna write down, like, five things about my body that I'm grateful for.

而且也不一定非得是那种我们老想着的外在东西，比如能让你走路的肌肉啊、脚啊这些。

And it doesn't have to be what we always think about, like, you know, external stuff, like the muscles that allow you to walk and feet.

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

你的脚里头居然有这么多骨头。

Your feet have so many bones in them.

它们的工作机制真是太神奇了。

It's just phenomenal how they work.

每天都这么干。

And do that every day.

每天写下五件你感激自己身体的事情，让这些话变成你新的内心独白。

Every day, gonna write down five things about my body that I'm grateful for and let those become your new script.

别光在脑子里转圈，好好祷告，找点真正让你兴奋、觉得能给生活添彩的事儿，别做那些让你越搞越糟的——反正我以前就从没这么干过。

But get it out of your brain, pray over it, and find something that gets you excited that feels like it's going to add value to your life rather than detract it because that's something I never did.

我就是觉得：哦，人家说该这么做，那我就做吧。

I was just like, oh, they said I should do that.

好。

Okay.

我也要这么做。

I'm gonna do that too.

后来我试了一堆方法，却一直没找到真正适合我的那一个。

And then I added more and more and more, and I never discovered what actually worked for me.

你完全有权利去探索，找到对你有用的方式。

And you have permission to do that, to discover what works for you.

我觉得这一点对很多女性来说特别重要。

I think that's such an important aspect of this to so many women.

如果你正在听，而且正需要这份许可，那你一点都不孤单。

If you are listening to this and you need that permission, you're not alone.

我参加过太多女性的分享会了，她们都说：‘你刚刚等于给了我做这件事的许可。’

I feel like there have been so many sessions I've been in with women who have said, well, you like you just gave me permission to do this.

我当时就想：你其实一直都有这个权利，只是有时候，听别人说出来，心里才踏实。

I was like, you had permission this whole time, but I know like it helps sometimes just to hear it.

我特别喜欢这个想法，就是直接把脑子里的东西全倒出来。

So I love that idea of just do the brain dump.

你们很多听这个的人都是A型性格，特别喜欢列清单。

So many of you that are listening are a type a and you love a good checklist.

我也是这样，但一想到得做这么多事，真的会让人喘不过气。

I'm right there with you, but it can feel really overwhelming to go, okay.

健康圈告诉我，我得做十七件事。

There's 17 things that the wellness industry has told me I need to do.

或者我自己也列了十五件事，觉得得做这些才能改善身体、心理或精神状态，光是想着得全做完，就快压垮我了。

Or there are 15 things that I have been telling myself I need or want to do to improve my physical, mental, spiritual health in some way, and it can feel really overwhelming to feel like I gotta just be doing all these.

或者觉得得先从一件开始，再一件件加，最后非得把所有事都做到不可。

Or I have to start with one and then build and then build and then build and eventually I need to be doing all of this.

可能有一大堆事情等着你。

And there are probably a million things.

我随便想想，都能一口气列出四五十件对我健康有帮助的事。

I could probably brain dump 40 or 50 things off the top of my head that I know are helpful for my health in some area or another.

身体上、心理上、精神上、财务上、人际关系上，你想得到的都算上。

Physically, mentally, spiritually, financially, relationally, you name it.

这真的会让人觉得特别压得慌。

And that can feel super overwhelming.

所以我特别喜欢直接把所有想法倒出来，再用不同颜色标出来。

So I love that of just like brain dump it all, color code it.

那些爱用荧光笔、喜欢精致写字的朋友们，这简直是个超有趣的小小项目。

All you people who love your highlighters and your fancy writing, this can be a fun little project.

对吧？

Right?

标完颜色，再按顺序列个清单。

Color code it and then just make you a list of, like, in order.

对吧？

Right?

这些才是让你最有干劲的事。

These are the things that feel most invigorating.

这些都很简单。

These feel simple.

这事儿不像是额外加在生活里的负担，反而能融入我的生活，还能和孩子一起做，或者跟别的事一块儿干——我现在正处于这么一个阶段，哪怕别人说‘你每天只要花五分钟做这件事’，我也能接受。

This is something that doesn't feel like just an add on to my life, but a value add that I can do with my kids or in conjunction with something else because I'm in a season of life where I even when someone says, well, just take five minutes a day and do this thing.

我会说：行啊。

I'm like, okay.

你只要给我找出那五分钟，我立马就做。

Find me the five minutes and I'll do it right.

所以，当你能找到那些能自然融入你现有生活的事情，我就想给你一点授权——Brandice，希望你也认同这一点。

And so when you can find those things that seamlessly integrate with what you're already doing or let me also give you permission and, Brandice, you hopefully this is something you will agree with too.

当我们把这些事加进来的时候，有时候也得学会对别的事说‘不’，才能腾出空间来。

Sometimes as we're including these things, we have to start saying no to other things to make space for it.

我没法告诉正在听的你们，那个对你来说该舍弃的东西到底是什么。

I can't tell those of you that are listening what that thing is for you.

但Brandice，你刚才提到，可以把这张清单带到主面前，说：嘿。

But, Brandice, you just mentioned, like, take that list to the Lord and say, hey.