女性健康新科学：力量、代谢与更年期——与Stacy Sims博士对话 #578

但从生理学角度来看，这更多是一种代谢压力。

But when we're looking at it from a physiological perspective, it's more of a metabolic stress.

这意味着你的肌肉正在工作。

So it means your muscle is working.

它在学习如何利用能量，但并没有真正获得来自神经系统层面的增强力量的刺激。

It's learning how to use fuel, but it's not really getting the stimulus to become stronger from a nervous system standpoint.

理解这两者之间的显著差异非常重要。

And it's really important to understand the distinct distinctive differences between those.

因为当我们从围绝经期进入绝经后阶段时，有两个关键点我们必须牢记，以实现健康衰老而非加速老化：我们需要以肌肉为中心，并保持力量。

Because when we're looking at perimenopause into postmenopause, the two really critical things that we need to remember so that we can age well and not get old, is we need to be muscle centric and strong.

所以，如果我们看看雌激素如何刺激我们所说的肌肉卫星细胞或干细胞，而突然间我们不再有雌激素来完成这一作用时，我们就需要找到其他方式来刺激肌肉干细胞，以持续构建肌肉。

So if we're looking at how estrogen really stimulates what we call the satellite cell or the stem cell of muscle, and now all of a sudden, we don't have estrogen to do that, We need to find something else that's going to stimulate the stem cell of muscle to keep building muscle.

我们还发现，雌激素与我之前提到的肌球蛋白这种肌肉蛋白密切相关。

We also see that estrogen is tightly tied to myosin, that muscle protein that I was talking about earlier.

因此，当我们失去雌激素时，肌球蛋白就像说：‘唉，我不知道该怎么办了。’

So when we lose estrogen, myosin is kind of like, Ugh, I don't know what to do.

但如果我们承受一个重负荷，肌球蛋白就会意识到：哦，好吧，我必须和另一个肌球蛋白紧密结合，因为我要举起这个重量。

But if we have a heavy load that comes in, then myosin's like, Oh, okay, I need to bond to that other one really strongly because I have to lift this load.

另一点，雌激素与一种叫做乙酰胆碱的神经递质的储存密切相关。

And then the other thing, estrogen is tightly tied to where we store a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine.

乙酰胆碱有助于神经信号跳跃，也就是从神经传导路径到刺激肌肉本身的那个间隙。

And acetylcholine is what helps the nerve jump, what we call a gap from where the nerve is conducted down to where it stimulates the muscle itself.

所以它需要一个小跳跃。

So it has to have a little jump.

而乙酰胆碱就像是让这个跳跃得以发生的船。

And acetylcholine is like the boat that allows that to happen.

当我们雌激素水平不足时，乙酰胆碱的含量也会减少。

We don't have a lot of estrogen, then the amount of acetylcholine that's there is reduced.

因此，我们无法实现快速的神经传导。

So we don't have the capacity to have a really fast nerve conduction coming over.

所以当我们考虑力量型举重、重负荷训练时，正是这种外部负荷会向中枢神经系统发出信号：嘿，我们需要在那里增加乙酰胆碱。

So when we're looking at the power based end of lifting, the heavy lifting, it's that external load that is now going to tell the central nervous system, hey, you know what, we need more acetylcholine there.

是的

Yeah.

不仅如此，我们还需要肌球蛋白与肌动蛋白紧密结合。

Not only that, we need to have myosin bond to actin really heavily and strongly.

而且我们需要更多的肌纤维，因为要举起这个负荷，需要更多的肌肉收缩。

And we need more muscle fibers in itself, because we need more muscle to contract to lift this load.

而如果我们处于另一端，也就是大家谈论的力量训练，比如普拉提和健身训练，高重复、低负荷，我们就不会有同样的刺激。

Whereas if we're at the other end, where everyone's talking about strength training, as in Pilates and boot camp and more reps, less load, we don't have that same stimulus.

我们的肌肉会发生变化，更多地利用碳水化合物和ATP，并产生代谢反应。

We have a change in the muscle where we're using more carbohydrate, and we're using more ATP, and we're having that metabolic response.

但这对希望在八九十岁甚至更老时仍能独立生活的女性没有帮助，因为她们缺乏刺激来构建一个以强健肌肉为核心的体魄。

But it's not going to benefit women who want to be able to be living independently when they get to be in their 80s and 90s, or beyond, because they will not have had the stimulus to create a very strong muscle centric body.

是的

Yeah.

那里有很多有趣的观点值得深入探讨。

There's so many interesting points there to unpick.

好的。

Okay.

对我来说，第一个是你说到了‘肌肉塑形’这个说法。

The the the first one for me is you mentioned the phrase muscle toning.

对于那些刚刚在听的人，斯泰西在对我说这个词时，特意给‘塑形’加了引号。

And for those of you who were just listening, Stacy put toning in inverted commas as she was saying that to me.

好的。

Okay.

我认为这很重要，因为我们需要直面这个显而易见的问题。

So I think this is important because I think we need to address often the elephant in the room.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

人们希望改善自己的健康状况和荷尔蒙水平。

People want to improve their health and their hormonal profiles.

但我认为公平地说，虚荣心也很重要，很可爱。

But I think it's fair to say that vanity is also important Cute.

对很多人来说都是如此。

To many people.

对吧？

Right?

好像你再也不能这样说了。

And it's as if you can't really say that anymore.

由此延伸出来，你对‘肌肉塑形’这个说法怎么看？

And I guess coming on from that then is what do you think of the phrase muscle toning?

你关于力量训练和高强度间歇训练的建议，是否也能帮助女性改善体型、减少腹部脂肪，同时提升激素水平和长期健康？

And are these changes or these recommendations that you make around strength training and HIITS training, are they going to help women with their physique and losing belly fat as well as their hormonal profile and long term health?

相比传统的健身塑形训练，这些方法能在更短的时间内为她们带来更大的效果。

It will do more for them in a shorter amount of time than if we're following the traditional fitness muscle toning type workouts.

我说‘肌肉塑形’时加了引号，因为这只是一个健身术语。

And I say muscle toning with air quotes or inverted quotes, because it is a fitness phrase.

这在生理学上是不存在的。

It's not in physiology.

在任何力量与体能期刊中都没有这个说法。

It's not in any strength and conditioning journal.

它只是逐渐成为了一种将力量训练语言性别化的方式。

It has just become something that has gendered the language around strength training.

所以我喜欢把这个问题放在更清晰的背景下来看：力量训练领域是非常性别化且带有性别歧视的。

So I like to bring it into perspective where the strength training world is very, very gendered and sexist.

因为现在，如果一个女性走进一家传统健身房，对自己的身体成分感到非常不安，想要减重，但又不一定想直接这么说，那么很不幸的是，去大多数那些遍布各地的健身连锁店，情况都是如此。

Because if you are a woman now who goes into a traditional gym, and you're very uncomfortable with your body composition, and you want to look to lose weight, but you don't necessarily want to say that, Unfortunately, go to most of the gym chains who are out there, and there's a gazillion of them.

女性进来后，他们会看到所有动感单车课程和健身操的课程表，却不会被引导去使用器械。

A woman will come in and they'll say, Oh, here's the class schedule for all our spin classes and our boot camp, but they won't be directed to the weights.

而一个男性进来时，可能也有同样的需求——想改变身体成分，让自己感觉更好。

Whereas a guy will come in and might have the same thing where I want to change my body composition, I want to feel better about myself.

但他们会被问：‘你想增多少肌肉？’

And they'll say, Okay, how much muscle do you want to gain?

这里是举重平台。

Here are the lifting platforms.

所以作为女性进入这种力量训练和健身房的环境，我们已经处于劣势了。

So we're already up against it as a woman walking into this situation of strength training and the gym.

如果我们说‘塑形’，这是一种带有性别色彩的语言，旨在让女性举轻重量、进行力量训练显得可以接受。

So if we say muscle toning, that is a gendered language to make it seem like it's okay for women to be lifting lighter weights, and they're doing strength training.

但这并不相同。

But it's not the same.

这更多是一种代谢压力。

It's more of a metabolic stress.

但如果我们想通过代谢压力来改变体型，希望在夏天看起来更好，那就真的需要付出努力。

But if we're going to look at a metabolic stress, and we want to change our body composition, and we want to look good for summer, then we need to really put in the work.

这并不意味着花九十分钟做锻炼。

It doesn't mean spending ninety minutes doing a workout.

因为那样会让女性完全处于一种代谢压力中，这种压力太轻，无法达到二区训练、恢复放松或改善副交感神经的效果。

Because that puts women fully in a metabolic stress that is too easy to be hard to be zone two or recovery relaxation or improve our parasympathetic.

这太轻松了，根本不足以引发我们想要的身体成分改变和长寿所需的适应性变化。

And it's way too easy to be hard enough to instigate any kind of adaptive change that we want for body composition and longevity.

当我谈到‘肌肉塑形’时，我对此感到非常沮丧，因为这是一个带有性别偏见的术语，完全不应该出现在任何旨在提升女性自信、打破力量训练领域性别歧视的对话中。

So when I talk about muscle toning, I get very frustrated with that because it's such a gendered term that has no place in any of the conversations that's going to improve women's confidence, and to break through this barrier of the sexism that exists in the strength training world.

是的，感谢你对此的清晰阐述。

Yeah, appreciate your clarity with that.

你刚才说话的时候，我在反思自己作为男性锻炼的经历。

As you were talking then, I was reflecting on my own experience of working out as a man.

尽管我现在不去健身房了，但我经常做自重训练，也在花园里进行大量力量训练，这些我们稍后肯定可以聊聊，但你说得对，‘塑形’这个词对我来说毫无意义。

And I don't go to gyms now, having said that, I do a lot of body weight, I do a lot of strength training in my garden, which we can talk about later for sure, but you're right, that phrase toning, it doesn't do anything for me as a man.

我就觉得，嗯，随便吧。

I'm like, yeah, whatever.

我确实觉得这是个女性专用的术语，仔细想想真是令人惊讶。

I do associate it as a female term and is incredible when you think about it.

这纯粹是市场营销的产物。

It it's just pure marketing.

这纯粹是营销，不是吗？

It's pure marketing, isn't it?

这纯粹是营销。

It's pure marketing.

当然，你知道的，又不刻意偏向男性或女性，这显然是为了更吸引某一性别。

And of course, you know, again, without being overly prejudicial to men v women, of course, it is designed to appeal to one sex more than another.

是的。

Yep.

然后你刚才提到了时间。

And then I guess you mentioned time there.

所以我原本想试试普拉提，但我绝对不是在针对普拉提。

So I wanted to go at Pilates, and I'm not trying to pick on Pilates here at all.

只是因为你提到了普拉提。

It's just because you mentioned Pilates.

明白吗？

Okay?

因为我相信，现在正在收听这个播客的很多女性和男性都享受普拉提，并发现它对他们的背部、核心或其他方面有所帮助。

Because I'm sure there's plenty of women and men listening to this podcast right now who do enjoy Pilates have found it helpful for maybe their back or their core or whatever it might be.

你 okay。

You Okay.

作为

As

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

Great.

所以，如今这种细微差别被忽略了。

So this is where this nuance gets missed these days.

对吧？

Right?

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

所以是普拉提。

So Pilates.

好的。

Okay.

我猜你并不反对普拉提，但你的意思是，一旦女性进入37岁左右、荷尔蒙变化开始发生时，普拉提本身并不能满足你希望她们关注的那些需求，对吧？

You're not against Pilates, I'm guessing, but you're saying that actually Pilates per se will not be doing what you're asking women to pay attention to once those hormonal changes start to kick in, at the early age of 37, right?

没错。

Correct.

是的。

Yep.

所以我们来看普拉提，我不该说它不是力量训练，因为它确实非常注重肌肉训练。

So we look at Pilates, it is I shouldn't say it's not strength training because it is very muscle centric.

但普拉提的设计更偏向等长收缩，强调本体感觉、平衡、控制和呼吸，这些都是非常好的方面。

But Pilates is designed to be more isometric and to give lots of proprioception, balance, control, breath work, which is all really good things.

好的。

Okay.

我们希望拥有所有这些好处。

We want all of these things.

但当我们着眼于为长寿构建力量、提升爆发力，以及促进肌肉质量和骨骼的发育与维持时，我们需要比普拉提提供的更重的负荷。

But when we're looking at building strength for longevity, and creating power, and looking at how we are going to encourage lean mass and bone to develop and stay, we need heavier loads than what Pilates offers.

当女性说，‘哦，你是不是反对普拉提？’

So when women are like, Oh, you're so anti Pilates.

我会说，不，只是它并不是你力量训练的核心。

I'm like, No, it just isn't the bread and butter of your strength training.

当我谈到举重时，我们每周至少两天，最好三天。

When I'm talking about lifting heavy loads, we're minimum two days a week, preferably three.

如果你真的很喜欢普拉提，你也可以把它融入其中。

And if you really love Pilates, you can do Pilates in there too.

我不想剥夺人们的‘心灵美食’。

I don't want to take away people's soul food.

我的意思是，当我们考虑如何优化女性在围绝经期及绝经后阶段的身体时，因为我们在围绝经期所做的努力，希望能延续到余生。

I'm saying if we're looking at what optimizes a woman's body as she's going through perimenopause and into postmenopause, because what we do in perimenopause, we want to carry it through the rest of our lives.

你可以通过外部负荷来优化一些方面，从而打造一个身心俱强、能够支撑你度过晚年的生活框架。

There are things that you can optimize from an external load to really create a stress resilient, strong frame, both mental and physical frame, to carry you through to your late years of life.

我们也有空间保留心灵美食。

And we also have room for soul food.

对我来说，我的心灵美食就是骑着砾石自行车一骑就是好几个小时。

For me, my soul food is going and riding my gravel bike for hours and hours.

但这并不符合高强度间歇训练和力量训练的范畴。

But that doesn't fit into HIIT and strength training.

但它符合我所说的心灵美食，因为它对我的大脑有益。

But it fits into what I call soul food, because it's good for my brain.

我喜欢待在户外，和朋友们见面。

I like being outside, see my friends.

所以普拉提也可以融入其中。

So Pilates can fit in there.

是的。

Yeah.

这有点意思。

It's kind of interesting.

这让我觉得，甚至‘锻炼’或‘运动’这样的词可能都太宽泛了。

It sort of implies to me that even the words exercise or even movement perhaps is too broad.

对吧？

Right?

因为说健康的一个支柱是运动，我确实这么说，也同意这一点，没错，我还写过一本包含这个观点的书。

Because by saying one pillar of health is movement, which I say and I I agree with, okay, and I wrote wrote a book with that in it.

对吧？

Right?

我并不是完全不同意这一点，但问题是，不同的运动形式、所谓的不同锻炼方式，会给身体带来不同的刺激，从而产生不同的适应性变化。

It's not that I'm necessarily disagreeing with that, but the problem is then is that different movements, different forms of so called exercise provide different stimuli to the body and therefore different adaptations.

因此，作为社会，我们需要更明确地界定所需的身体适应性。

So we as a society have to be more specific with adaptation we require.

一旦我们明确了需要什么样的适应性，就能选择合适的运动或锻炼方式来实现这种适应。

Once we know the adaptation we require, we can choose the right movements or exercises to give us that adaptation.

那么回到普拉提，我想再次强调，我们并不是在针对普拉提。

So going back to Pilates then, and again, I wanna emphasize that we're not picking on Pilates here.

明白吗？

Okay?

我以前做普拉提做了好多年。

When I had a baba, I did Pilates for years.

明白吗？

Okay?

我现在不做了，但曾经长期坚持过。

I don't anymore, but I did for a long period of time.

明白吗？

Okay?

时间在这里也是一个因素，对吧？

Time plays a role here, right?

比如说，如果你是一位四十岁左右的女性，每周去上一小时的普拉提课。

So if let's say you're a woman, you're forty years old or whatever, but let's say you're 40 years old and you go to a one hour Pilates class a week.

你忙于工作、当妈妈，或者生活中各种琐事，但你还是挤出时间每周去上一小时的普拉提课，也许中间还能抽空散几次步。

You're busy with whatever work, being a mom, like the things of life, but you've found time to go to a one hour Pilates class a week, and perhaps you go for a few walks throughout the week when you can.

如果你除了这些散步之外，每周只有这一小时可以用来关注自己的健康和福祉，那么接下来的问题就是：这一个小时是否是最优的利用方式？或者，斯泰西，你是否会认为，如果你只有这一小时，不如改为进行三次各二十分钟的力量训练，而不是做普拉提？

If all you have is that one hour outside those walks perhaps to dedicate to your health and well-being, I guess then the further question is, is that the best use of your hour or might you, Stacy, argue that if you've only got an hour, you might wanna do three twenty minutes strength training sessions instead of Pilates.

帮我们为这些时间紧张的女性稍微分析一下这个问题。

Help us think about that a little bit for the woman who's time pressed.

是的，我的意思是我每天接触的几乎都是这样的人。

Yeah, I mean, that's almost who I talk to every day.

好的。

Okay.

四十多岁的女性，她们在工作，已婚或有伴侣，有孩子，或者虽然没结婚但也有伴侣，她们的生活都非常充实。

Women who are in their 40s, they're working, they're married, they have kids, or they have a partner and they're not married, but their lives are very full.

我有一群女性说她们是‘早上五点俱乐部’的成员，因为她们必须五点起床，把事情做完，六点前赶回来。

I have a group of women who say they're the 5AM club because that's they have to get up and get their stuff done and be back by 6AM.

所以我完全理解这一点。

So fully understand that.

所以，如果我们考虑一位每周只能抽出一小时专注于自己的女性，再加上你提到的偶尔在下班后或周末散散步，我们就必须聚焦于这一小时。

So if we're looking at a woman who has maybe one hour a week that she can dedicate for herself, and then like you said, throw in a couple of walks here and there, maybe after work or on the weekend, We have to look and focus on that one hour.

我们能做些什么呢？

What can we do?

也许我们可以把这一小时分成三次二十分钟的力量训练。

Maybe we can split that up into three twenty minute strength training sessions.

但这需要她有三个不同的日子来安排。

But that would require, you know, three separate days.

而也许她总共只有这一小时的时间。

And maybe she only has that one hour.

所以，如果我要规划这一小时，我会把它分成三个二十分钟的段落，第一段专注于大量的活动度训练，以确保我们避免受伤。

So if I were to look at that one hour, I would structure it into three twenty minute segments, where the first one is we're doing lots of mobility work, so that we make sure that we stay injury free.

我们要打开关节囊，增加关节的活动范围。

So we're looking at opening the joint capsules and creating more range of motion.

拉伸，但同时也在训练本体感觉，增强关节内的活动能力，放松肌腱和韧带。

Stretching, but it's working on proprioception, it's working on in range, it's loosening up the tendons and the ligaments.

然后我会进行二十分钟的复合负重力量训练。

Then I would do twenty minutes of compound heavy resistance training.

接着我会以一些冲刺间歇训练收尾。

Then I would finish with some sprint interval work.

所以这是三十秒全力冲刺，110%的努力，然后进行两到三分钟的完全恢复。

So this would be thirty seconds, hard as you can, 110 effort, and then you have two to three minutes full recovery.

你可能会做两到三次。

And you might do that two or three times.

冲击式自行车非常适合这种训练。

Assault bike's great for that.

也许你是在做壶铃摆动。

Maybe you're doing kettlebell swings.

但在完成灵活性训练和力量训练后，这种刺激才是你需要的，而不是参加三十五或四十分钟的高强度间歇训练课程。

But that stimulus at the end of the mobility and the resistance training is what you need instead of a thirty five or forty minute HIIT class.

所以我们关注这一小时，每周可以这样安排一次。

So we're looking at that one hour and you can do that once a week.

这已经是帮助改善体型和大脑健康的基本要求了。

That's a bare minimum that's going to help create the impetus for better body composition change and brain health.

因为高强度抗阻训练的另一个好处是它能促进大脑的神经可塑性。

Because the other thing about heavy resistance training is it works on the neuroplasticity of the brain.

当我们谈论神经可塑性时，我们正需要这种效果，因为我们希望保持认知能力，避免认知衰退。

And when we're looking at neuroplasticity, we want that, because we want to be able to maintain our ability to have cognition and not experience cognitive decline.

是的。

Yeah.

然后你可以看看你的散步，比如和狗一起的那一次散步，你可以想：好吧，与其只是和狗进行普通的三公里散步，不如把这三公里分成几段，加快一两分钟的速度，然后休息一分钟。

And then you can look at your walks, maybe one of your walks with your dog, you go, Okay, well, instead of just going on this normal three ks walk with my dog, I'm going to take the dog and I'm going to divide that three ks up, and maybe I'm going to pick up the pace for a minute or two, and then I'm going to have a minute recovery.

这样你就把散步变成了一次高强度间歇训练。

So you take that into a hit session.

所以，即使你时间紧张，也可以找到方法优化你一周内的活动安排。

So there's ways of looking at what you're doing during the week, even if you are time constrained.

我有一些女性观众是早间早餐节目的工作人员。

I have some women who are on the early crew for the breakfast shows.

所以她们得在凌晨两点三十分或三点起床，以便在三点三十分或四点到达现场。

So they're getting up at 02:30, 03:00 in the morning to be on set by 03:30 or four.

她们起床后会进行十分钟的壶铃高强度训练来让自己清醒。

And they get up and they do a ten minute high intensity with kettlebells to wake themselves up.

但这也有助于应对从事这类夜班时出现的昼夜节律变化。

But it also helps with the circadian rhythm shift that happens when you start doing those kind of night shifts.

因此，即使时间非常有限，我们也能采取一些方法，最大限度地促进身体适应，从而改善代谢和体成分所需的各个方面。

So there's things that we can do with very short amount of time that's going to maximize our adaptations to improve all the things that we need to improve for better metabolic and body composition.

是的，我认为一个有助于理解的视角或框架是：一旦进入围绝经期，我的身体就会经历某些荷尔蒙变化。

Yeah, I guess so a helpful perspective or helpful framing for someone to think about this might be, once I become perimenopausal, I am undergoing certain hormonal changes.

作为女性，随着年龄增长，我在运动方面需要重点关注两件事，对吧？

And there are two particular things that I need to be focused on in terms of my movement as I get older as a woman, right?

力量训练和高强度间歇训练。

Resistance training and HIIT training.

所以我想你会认为，你并不是反对普拉提、瑜伽或散步，这些运动都很好，你也会鼓励做这些，但你必须意识到，这些运动并不能有效应对那些开始出现的荷尔蒙变化，对吧？

So I guess you would argue, I think, that it's not that you're against Pilates or yoga or walking, those things are all great and you would encourage those things, but you have to be aware that those things are not addressing a lot of those hormonal changes that are kicking in, right?

所以去做这些，其他事情也做，但如果没时间做其他事，也许你应该优先考虑这些。

So do them and do the other stuff, but if you can't find time for the other stuff, maybe that should be where your priority is first.

这样理解你的观点准确吗？

Is that an accurate representation of how you would look at this?

是的。

Yep.

如果我们时间有限，那就争取最大效益。

If we have minimal time, let's make the maximum gains.

所以如果我们时间有限，就要确保我们努力锻炼，并从高强度训练中充分恢复。

So if we have minimal time, let's make sure that we are working hard and recovering from that hard work.

好的，那我们讲完了力量训练，但我只想确保这一点非常清楚，好吗？

Okay, so that's we have covered strength training, but I just wanna make sure that it's super clear, okay?

你提到这是光谱中最具力量的那一端。

So you mentioned that this is the power end of the spectrum.

我很想了解这到底是什么意思？

I'd love to understand what does that actually mean?

你是在说重量的轻重吗？

And are you talking about, you know, the heaviness of the weight?

你还提到了速度，对吧？

You also mentioned speed, right?

所以是指你举起它的速度吗？

So is it the speed at which you pick it up?

因为我觉得，比如壶铃摆动，根据你使用的重量不同，会有不同程度的强度。

Because I'm guessing that, you know, a kettlebell swing, for example, depending on what weight you use, has got a degree of intensity to it.

而如果你做的是大重量硬拉，比如，你是要求女性不仅要举起重物，还要快速举起吗？

Whereas, I don't know if you're doing a heavy deadlift, for example, are you asking women to not only pick up heavy, but also pick up heavy fast?

这两个因素同等重要吗？

Both those inputs as important as each other?

当我们看力量训练部分时，重点是举起重负荷。

So when we're looking at the strength training component, it's about lifting the heavy loads.

好的。

Okay.

所以这是你的零到六次，或者最多七次。

So this is your zero to six, maybe seven reps.

我们通常谈论的是重复次数和剩余次数，我会告诉一位女性：去拿你平时做肩推或卧推时用的哑铃。

We like to talk about as reps and reserves, where I'll tell a woman, go pick up the dumbbell that you usually pick up for your shoulder press or your bench press.

然后我让她放下它，去拿下一个更重的。

And then I tell her to put it down and pick up the next one.

好的，试着用下一个更重的哑铃做这个动作。

Okay, let's try to do that movement with the next one.

你能做几次？

How many reps can you do?

大多数时候，她们能勉强做到十到十二次，然后告诉她们放下它，去拿下一个更重的。

Most of the time, they'll eke out 10 to 12, tell them put that down and pick up the next one.

这就是她们的起始重量。

And that's their starting weight.

因为大多数女性都习惯性地低估了自己的力量，所以她们举的重量不够重。

Because most women are so conditioned to undervalue their strength, they don't lift heavy enough.

所以这是一个循序渐进的过程，因为当我们谈论这个时，它是一种需要学习的技能。

So it is a phase in because when we're talking about this, it's a learned skill.

如果一个人从未进行过任何抗阻训练，他们不可能一开始就直接使用很重的负荷。

So if someone's never done any kind of resistance training, they're not going to hop into the really heavy loads right away.

要学会正确地进行大重量训练，可能需要长达六个月到一年的时间。

It could take up to six months to a year to learn how to lift heavy properly.

因此在这段时间里，是的，你会使用较轻的负荷和更多的重复次数。

So in that timeframe, yes, you're going to be using a lighter loads and more reps.

你正在训练肌肉、肌腱和韧带。

You're trying to condition the muscle and the tendons and the ligaments.

当我们开始加入速度成分时，这属于力量训练的一部分，从爆发力和强度的角度来看，这是不同的。

When we start adding the speed component, and that's part of strength training, from a plyometric and an intensity standpoint, and that's different.

因此我们可以将其作为代谢压力来使用。

So we can use that as a metabolic stress.

但我们关注的是力量训练中以力量输出为核心的那一部分。

But we're looking at specifically the power based end of strength training.

这就是我们说的零到六次，可能七到八次的范围。

This is where we say it's the zero to six to maybe seven, eight reps.

我们会为此设计一个周期化的训练计划。

And we do a periodized program with that.

如果我们关注的是爆发力训练，那么它可以被纳入高强度间歇训练，或者冲刺间歇训练。

And then if we're looking at the plyometric stuff, then that can be put into high intensity interval training, or it can be sprint interval training.

好的。

Okay.

所以在力量训练中，你希望专注于举重，选择一个你能做六到七次的重量。

So for the strength training, you wanna focus on power lifting heavy a weight that you can perhaps lift six to seven times.

然后你要重复这个过程，比如你举这个重量六次，休息一下，再重复几次？

And you wanna repeat that, like you do that, let's say you lift that weight six times, you have a rest, and then you repeat that a few times?

这时候你就得看看你正在进行什么样的训练计划。

Well, this is where you have to look at what kind of programming you're doing.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们通常举的例子是五组五次，每组之间休息两到三分钟。

So we say a typical example is the five by five, where you have five sets of five reps with two to three minutes between each set.

你会做五次重硬拉，休息两分钟，再做五次重硬拉，再休息两分钟。

So you would do five heavy deadlifts, rest two minutes, do another five heavy deadlifts, rest two minutes.

但当你做到第五组五次时，你可能会想：我真没法完成这五次了。

And probably by the time you get to the fifth set of five, you're like, I can't finish that five.

所以你几乎已经筋疲力尽了。

So you're almost too fatigued.

而这就是一次非常棒的重训训练。

And that would be a really good heavy lifting session.

所以当我们谈到五组五次时，指的就是这种训练方式。

So when we're looking at five by five, that's what we talked about.

好的。

Okay.

对于那些讨厌健身房的女性呢？

For the woman who hates gyms, right?

那些因为某种原因不喜欢去健身房的人，对吧？

Who for whatever reason they don't like going to gyms, okay?

他们可以在家里做些什么呢？

What are some things that they can do at home?

我知道你可能需要一些指导，也存在受伤的风险，而且必须循序渐进，这些我全都明白，但对于那些觉得自己可以、也想开始力量训练，却希望在家锻炼的人来说呢？

Appreciate you might need some instruction and there's a risk of injury and you have to build up slowly, you know, I understand all those things, but for someone who feels that they could and they want to start strength training, but they wanna do it at home.

比如说，过去一年我爱上了沙袋。

I mean, example, I've fallen in love with sandbags over the past year.

我在花园里放了几个沙袋。

So I've got these sandbags in the garden.

我有三四个，其中一个我稍微没装满，这样孩子们也能搬得动。

I've got a three or four, and one of them I've underfilled a bit, so I know the kids can carry things.

我只是想温和地鼓励我的孩子模仿我，这有点效果，但要看是星期几。比如，如果有人在花园里有沙袋，他们能直接做五组五次的沙袋过头举吗？

I'm trying to just gently encourage my children to copy me and mimic me, which is semi working, depending But on what day of the week it what about a sandbag, for example, if someone has that in their garden, can they just lift the sandbag over their head five by five?

或者，对于想在家完成所有训练的人，还有哪些其他选择？

Or what are some other options for people who wanna do all of this at home?

是的，我的意思是，你可以先用背包装满东西，然后做徒手深蹲，对吧？

Yeah, I mean, you can start with loading a backpack up and using that with air squats, right?

所以你可以把罐头食品放进背包，或者把沙袋放进去。

So you can put canned goods or you can put a sandbag in your backpack.

因此，在家时有很多方法可以增加外部负重。

So there's ways of adding external load while you're at home.

现在也有一些非常棒的应用程序，可以引导女性从自重抗阻训练开始，逐步增加负重。

There's some really fantastic apps available now too of guiding women at home first through resistance training body weight into adding load at body weight.

我的意思是，用自身体重来增加负重。

I mean, adding load with their body weight.

你可以买几个壶铃，或者用沙袋，也可以用旧轮胎做翻轮胎动作，或者用旧轮胎做硬拉。

And it could be buying a couple of kettlebells, it could be using sandbags, it could be old tires that you're using tire flips, or maybe you're doing deadlifts with old tires.

有很多方法都不需要你非得去健身房。

Like there's lots of things that you can do that doesn't require you to actually go to a gym.

关键是了解你的环境，以及你对自己独自锻炼的感受，或者你是否需要一个伙伴一起锻炼。

It's understanding what your environment is, how you feel about being by yourself working out, or do you need a partner to work in work out with.

因为社群非常重要。

Because community is huge.

我们看到女性尤其会受到吸引，特别是当她们有一个同样在健身路上的举重伙伴或朋友时。

We see women really gravitate, especially if they have a lifting partner or friend who's on the same journey.

当你身边有社群支持时，你会有更好的坚持性和进步。

See better adherence and better progression when you have community around you.

所以这取决于个人。

So it depends on the individual.

但所有这些完全可以在家完成。

But everything is totally doable at home.

这也取决于你愿意投入什么。

It depends also on what you want to invest in.

但可以从自重训练开始，然后像你提到的那样，通过背包、沙袋、负重背心等方式增加负荷，任何这类方式都会给肌肉骨骼系统带来额外的刺激，对你都有好处。

But starting out with your body weight and then adding load through a backpack or sandbags like you're talking about, a weighted vest, anything like it's going to add a little bit of external load, it's all extra stress on the musculoskeletal system that is going to benefit you.

但当我们谈到真正的力量型负荷时，这就需要借助健身房的器械了。

But when we start talking about the true power based loads, this is where we have to look at using gym equipment.

比如我在车库里安装了健身架之类的设备，因为我并不一定想去健身房。

Like I have a rig and stuff in my garage, because I don't necessarily want to go to the gym.

但我能在车库里进行大重量训练。

But I have the capacity to lift heavy in my garage.

但这是一种人们可能想也可能不想做的投入。

But that's an investment that people may or may not want to make.

所以，这取决于你处于旅程的哪个阶段。

So yeah, it's where you are in your journey.

让我们来弄清楚你目前处于旅程的哪个阶段。

And let's figure out where you are in your journey.

也许你可以通过关注 Betty Rocker、Haley Happens 或 Loretta Loves Lifting 这样的人，让他们引导你开启这段旅程。

And maybe it's connecting with the Betty Rocker or Haley Happens or Loretta Loves Lifting that all guide you through starting the journey.

然后，你就有了自信去健身房了。

And then boom, now you feel confident to go to a gym.

是的，我非常喜欢。

Yeah, I love it.

我想关键在于，如果你不进行重负荷训练，就会错过某些适应性变化，而这些变化在你经历围绝经期及之后阶段时，很可能正是你非常需要的。

And I guess the key point is if you're not lifting heavy, there are certain adaptations, which you just simply not going to get, which you probably really, really wanna get as you go through perimenopause and beyond.

因为坦白说，我们讨论的这个问题，虽然我之前多次提到40岁这个年龄，但并不是说只有到了40岁才需要这样做，对吧？

Because frankly, what we're talking about, I know I've mentioned the age 40 quite a lot so far, but it's not just that you need to do this when you're 40, right?

这其实是你余生的一种模式，贯穿绝经期，甚至延续到绝经后。

This is kind of the pattern for the rest of your life, like through the menopause, even into post menopause.

事实上，你有一个非常生动的表述，对吧？

In fact, you've got this quite catchy phrase, don't you?

做健身房里最年长的人，而不是养老院里最年轻的人。

Be the oldest person in the gym, not the youngest person in the nursing home.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yep.

我还想推荐一下Instagram账号‘train with Joan’。

And I I like to point out the Instagram account, train with Joan.

乔安现在72或73岁了。

So Joan is 72 or 73 now.

她是在六十多岁晚期开始力量训练的，对吧？

She started her strength training journey in her late, was it late 60s, mid 60s.

她练力量的时间并不长。

She hasn't been lifting very long.

但她面临了围绝经期和绝经后女性常见的许多问题，比如内脏脂肪增加、前期糖尿病、骨密度低，而她的女儿是一名私人教练。

But she was facing a lot of the typical things that peri postmenopausal woman faces extra visceral fat gain, pre diabetes, low bone density, and her daughter's a personal trainer.

她说：我想要运动，不要吃药。

And she's like, I want exercise, I don't want drugs.

于是她开始进行力量训练，如今已成为一个典范——晚年才开始举重，卧推能达到55公斤，硬拉更是达到100公斤。

So she started strength training, and now she is this phenom who started lifting late and is benching 55 kilos as her her bench press, and she's dead lifting 100 kilos.

她所取得的进步令人惊叹。

And it's just the progression that she's had.

她是一个绝佳的例子，展示了力量训练能为你带来什么。

And she's a really great image to show what heavy lifting can do for you.

我认为人们倾向于健身的一个原因是塑形，因为他们害怕变得过于健壮。

And I think one of the reasons people gravitate for is muscle toning, because they're afraid of getting bulky.

但对于女性来说，除非有遗传倾向，否则真的、真的、真的很难变得健壮。

But it's really, really, really difficult for women to get bulky, unless they have a genetic predisposition for it.

而这种情况非常罕见。

And that's a rarity.

所以，女性进入健身房开始力量训练时，另一个担忧是不想看起来像所有CrossFit运动员或力量举运动员那样。

So one of the other fears for women getting into the gym and start doing the power based stuff is they don't want to look like all the CrossFit athletes or the power lifting athletes.

他们付出了巨大的努力来构建并维持那样的肌肉。

They work really hard to build that muscle and keep that muscle.

如果你是一名女性，只是进行力量训练、注重饮食，你就不会变得健壮。

If you're a woman who's just doing the strength training, the power based stuff and eating well, you're not going to get bulky.

你会变得更强壮，认知能力也会大幅提升，骨骼也会非常强壮。

You're going to get strong, you're going to have really good cognitive faculties, you're gonna have really strong bones.

而这些才是我们真正追求的目标。

And those are the things that we're after.

我们之前提到过压力，你知道，很多女性，当然也有不少男性，但我们就聚焦在女性身上。

We've mentioned stress before and how, you know, a lot of women a lot of a lot of men as well, to be fair, but but let's keep this on women.

许多女性，尤其是在中年时期，感到生活中有太多事情要处理。

A lot of women feel, particularly in midlife, that there's a lot going on.

她们需要同时应对很多事情，承受着长期的压力。

There's a lot they're having to juggle and they're dealing with a lot of chronic stress.

我们知道，不同形式的运动会给身体带来不同水平的压力。

We know that different forms of exercise can put different levels of stress on the body.

那么对于那些感到长期压力大、时间又不多的女性来说，力量训练和负重训练会不会成为额外的压力源，从而引发问题呢？

So for that woman who does feel chronically stressed and that they don't have much time, is there a risk that strength training and lifting heavy is going to be an additional stressor, which can cause problems.

我想接着这个话题再补充一点，这是我以前在患者身上观察到的现象，斯泰西。

And I guess piggybacking off that is a phenomenon that I've seen in patients before, Stacy.

我想到几个具体的例子，有几位患者患有自身免疫性疾病，由于各种原因感到非常疲惫和虚弱，为了重新开始，她们会聘请私人教练——如果你有预算和资源，这当然非常好，但显然不是每个人都有这样的条件。

I've got a few people in mind actually, let's say couple of those patients had autoimmune disease that were quite unwell and tired for a variety of different reasons, but in order to get going, they would hire a personal trainer, which I think if you have the budget and you have the resource can be fantastic for sure, but of course not everyone does.

但我注意到，很多私人训练课程都是一小时一次。

But what I noticed is a lot of the personal training sessions are one hour sessions.

有时候我看到一些女性去参加这些一小时的私人训练，这对她们的免疫系统来说几乎太多了。

And sometimes I have seen women who would go and do these one hour PT sessions, and it would almost be too much for their immune systems.

她们会出现病毒性爆发，或者生病。

That was, you know, they come out in viral outbreaks or they get sick.

我见过很多这样的情况，我认为你提到的一点我非常赞同——实际上，你可能不需要花整整一小时举重。

And I've seen that a lot, and I think one of the things you talk about, which I really like, is that actually you probably don't need to lift weights for a whole hour.

对吧？

Right?

也许仅仅二十分钟的重训就能提供很好的刺激。

Maybe even twenty minutes of lifting heavy will give you a great stimulus.

所以你能谈谈这一点吗？同时也能谈谈更广泛的问题：力量训练对我们压力负荷有什么影响？

So can you address that point, but also the more broader point, which is what does strength training do to our stress load?

是的。

Yep.

那我先说说力量训练对我们的压力负荷有什么影响。

So I'll start with what does it do to our stress load.

如果我们正确地举重，我的意思是，如果我们目标是进行非常重的负荷训练，这并不是一种代谢压力。

If we are lifting properly, and what I mean by that is if we have the goal to go in and do heavy, heavy loads, it's not a metabolic stress.

因此，我们不会导致皮质醇水平随后升高，也不会引发相应的对抗反应。

So we're not going to get the subsequent increase in cortisol and not have a response to counter it.

当我们关注中枢神经系统的反应时，很多女性会去健身房，我们会告诉她们：请评估一下你心理上的状态，从1到10打分？

So when we're looking at a central nervous system response, we'll have a lot of women who will go to the gym and like, Look, we want you to go in and we want you to assess how do I feel mentally on a scale of one to 10?

你身体上的感觉如何，也从1到10打分？

How do I feel physically on a scale of one to 10?

通常她们过来时非常忙碌、疲惫，会说：心理上，我觉得自己只有2分。

Often, they'll front up and they're super busy and they're tired and they're like mentally, I feel like a two.

身体上，我大概有6分吧。

Physically, I probably am a six.

好的，那我们先热身。

Okay, so let's warm up.

我们先来做几组重负荷的举重动作。

Let's actually do a couple of heavy lifting reps there.

因为通常我们会发现这会激发中枢神经系统。

Because often we see that that sparks up central nervous system.

然后在精神上，他们的状态会提升到六分。

And then mentally, they come up to that six.

当他们完成训练时，会感到疲惫、倦怠，但同时又充满喜悦。

And then as they go through their session, they feel tired, fatigued, but elated.

这与疲惫但兴奋的状态不同。

It's different from tired but wired.

因为这并不是一种代谢压力。

Because it's not a metabolic stress.

当我们谈论大重量训练时，如果进行复合动作，比如深蹲或硬拉，训练时间只能控制在二十分钟内。

And when we're talking about the heavy loads, it can only be twenty minutes if we're doing compound movements, if we're doing heavy squats, or we're doing deadlifts.

我们会专注于这些复合动作，训练二十分钟。

We focus on that compound movement for twenty minutes.

这会打开并刺激中枢神经系统。

It opens up and it stimulates central nervous system.

它并不会引发代谢压力，而很多人将这种压力与重负荷和高强度课程联系在一起，我们已经被灌输了一种观念，认为训练结束时必须感到筋疲力尽。

It doesn't invoke a metabolic stress, which a lot of people associate with heavy loads and hard classes, where we've been conditioned to feel smashed at the end.

我们不必这样做。

We don't have to do that.

因此，力量训练的美妙之处在于，你可以进行一次非常扎实的训练，然后走出健身房时感觉良好，而不是被彻底击垮。

So that's the beauty of strength training is you can have a really solid session and walk out feeling good and not smashed.

这正是我特别想向女性普及的一点：认为训练结束时必须大汗淋漓、筋疲力尽，并不是常态。

And this is the one thing that I really am trying to educate women, that the idea of having a sweat session and feeling smashed at the end of a of a class or at the end of an exercise session is not the norm.

确实有一些训练是针对真正高强度间歇训练的。

There are some sessions, yes, where we're looking at doing a true high intensity interval session.

比如我们进行冲刺间歇训练时，你当然会出汗，但训练结束后你不应该感到被彻底击垮。

And we are doing sprint intervals, where yes, you're going to get sweaty, but you shouldn't feel smashed at the end.

因为我们都被深深洗脑了，觉得必须参加45分钟的动感单车课，拼尽全力练满45分钟，然后满身大汗、彻底虚脱地走出来，或者在健身营课程中也是如此。

Because we've all been so conditioned that we have to go to a forty five minute spinner class and hit it hard for forty five minutes and come out feeling sweaty and just completely smashed by that class or a boot camp class.

是的。

Yeah.

但那并不是我们想要的负荷。

But that's not the load that we want.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，对于个人而言，也许关键在于：假设现在有一位私人教练正在听我们的对话，他训练很多女性，可能会意识到：哇，确实有时候一小时的高强度训练对她们来说太多了。

So maybe perhaps the take home for an individual, but also let's say there's a personal trainer, listening to our conversation right now who trains a lot of women and is recognizing, wow, yeah, actually sometimes one hour of pushing my client is too much for them.

因此，她们总是受伤、精疲力尽，或者感冒了，不得不取消训练课，这种情况太常见了。

So they keep getting injured or they're knackered or they come down with a cold, so they're having to cancel that session because this happens a lot.

也许我们需要思考新的商业模式。

Perhaps it's about thinking up new business models.

我可以提供三十分钟的课程吗？

So could I offer thirty minute sessions?

或者，也许在一小时的课程中，热身十分钟后，只进行十五到二十分钟的力量训练，然后专注于柔韧性训练和其他方面。

Or I guess it could even be maybe in that one hour after a ten minute warmup, we only do fifteen, twenty minutes of strength training, and then we work on mobility and, you know, other kinds of things.

我并不是想告诉任何人该如何工作，但对某些人来说，这种做法听起来合理吗？

Again, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, but does that sound like a reasonable approach for someone to take perhaps?

当然。

Absolutely.

当然。

Absolutely.

我还想提醒女性的是，我们社会上有一种压力，要求我们很好地遵循指令，不能道歉，或者过度道歉，也不能掌控局面。

And the other thing I like to remind women is that we have a societal pressure where we have to follow instructions really well, and we can't apologize, or we over apologize, and we can't take control.

我告诉女性们，你们花钱请了私人教练，花钱上了CrossFit课程，花钱参加了Orange Theory，你们为这些服务付费了，那就让它们为你和你的身体服务。

And I tell women, look, you're paying for the PT session, you're paying for the CrossFit class, you're paying for the orange theory, you're paying for these things, make it work for you and your body.

所以，如果你聘请了一位私人教练，你们之间应该建立一种关系，让你可以说：‘你知道吗？对于我更年期前的身体状况，我需要做这些事情。’

So if you go and you hire a PT, you should have a relationship where you could say, you know what, for my body in perimenopause, these are the things I need to do.

我需要在这一小时内短时间地进行大重量训练。

I need to lift heavy for a shorter period of time within this hour.

我需要花很长时间做热身，以免受伤。

And I need to really spend a long time warming up so I don't get injured.

所以让我们让这一切为我们服务：既有灵活性，又有力量，能够进行大重量训练，但也要花足够时间热身，以便正确执行大重量动作，然后进行充分的放松。

So let's make this this work for us where we have mobility, strength, you know, get into the heavy lifting, And it takes time to warm up to be able to execute the heavy loads properly, and then have a really good cool down.

或者我们可以把这一小时分成两部分，一半时间用来举重，另一半时间用来训练冲刺能力。

Or maybe we're going to split that hour up where we're lifting for one half of it, and then the other we work on some sprint capacity.

但你必须进行这些对话。

But you have to have those conversations.

否则，你只是去那里，然后别人会告诉你该做什么。

Otherwise, you're just going to show up and they're going to tell you what to do.

而这些安排可能并不适合你这个生命阶段的身体。

And it might not be right for your body during this life phase.

是的，我很感谢你这么说。

Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that.

因为确实，你在男性身上也会看到这种情况，但我确实见过很多女性患者，她们会说，嗯，那个课程就是这样安排的，或者健身房的人希望这么做，而我却不敢开口。

Because I've, I mean, you do see this in men of course as well, but I've definitely seen this in female patients before where they come in and say, yeah, but the class was doing this or the person in the gym wants to do this and I didn't feel I could say anything.

我想这更广泛地涉及到找到我们内心的声音，真正信任自己，并有勇气为自己发声，比如：我明白你想那样上课，这没问题，但我不会做最后那两个动作，或者那不适合我。

And I guess that's a much wider point about finding our inner voice and actually, you know, trusting ourselves and having the confidence to speak up for ourselves and say, I get that you wanna run your class like that, which is fine, but I'm not gonna do those two things at the end, or that doesn't work for me.

但太多时候，我们害怕融入群体，害怕冒犯任何人。

But too often we're scared about fitting in and not offending anyone.

而且，我觉得你刚才提到的这一点非常非常重要。

And, you know, I think that's a that's quite a it's a very, very important point that I think you just raised there.

所以希望这能给很多女性带来这份自信。

So hopefully that will give a lot of women that confidence.

在我们继续详细讨论高强度间歇训练之前，斯泰西，你能提醒我们一下吗？当女性大约到四十岁左右时，身体会经历一些特定的变化，你可能还会更早开始关注。

Strength training, before we just move on to HIIT training then in detail, just remind us, Stacy, if you will, there are certain changes that happen, once a woman hits around four, so you'll probably start a bit earlier.

你说力量训练是缓解这些变化的一种非常有效的方式。

And you're saying that strength training is one very effective way to mitigate some of those changes.

能不能简要地提醒我们一下，力量训练具体在哪些方面帮助我们应对这些变化？

Just top line remind us of the changes that strength training does, which helps us in that regard?

有很多方面，但我尽量简短地说。

There's so many things, but I'll try to be brief.

我们关注的是提升整体力量和力量耐力。

So we look at improving our overall power and our strength capacity.

这意味着我们的握力、提购物袋的能力，以及如果踩空台阶时能及时调整身体平衡的能力。

So that means our grip strength, our ability to carry our groceries, our ability to right ourselves if we step off a curb wrong.

这些都只是生活中的常态。

So all of these things that are just part of life.

我们发现，中枢神经系统的参与有助于神经可塑性，即大脑健康，从而降低认知衰退的风险。

We see that the central nervous system involvement helps with neuroplasticity, which is brain health, which helps reduce the risk factor for cognitive decline.

我们发现，力量训练能改善肠道微生物组，使微生物多样性提升，从而减少肠道微生物组导致肥胖的风险。

We see that strength training improves our gut microbiome, which means that now we have a better diversity, which reduces the stimulus for an obesogenic outcome of our gut microbiome.

我们还发现，力量训练对骨骼产生拉压作用，有助于提高骨密度。

And we see that it's a push pull on the bone, which improves our bone density.

这些就是我们的主要益处。

So those are our high touches.

从心血管角度来看，我们也能看到力量训练有助于改善血管顺应性。

When we look from more of a cardiovascular standpoint, we can also see the strength training helps with our vascular compliance.

因此，它有助于控制血压。

So it helps with our blood pressure.

我们还发现，它也能改善代谢控制。

We see that improves our metabolic control as well.

所以我们拥有的瘦体重越多，活跃的肌肉越多，身体对葡萄糖的吸收能力就越强。

So the more lean mass we have, the more active muscle we have, the more we have of a glucose suck.

这意味着我们的血糖控制会更好。

So that means that we have better blood glucose control.

在围绝经期会发生很多变化，如果我们加入力量训练，变得更加以肌肉为中心，通过增强肌肉、力量、爆发力和骨骼，就能减轻围绝经期带来的某些副作用。

So there's so many things that happen through perimenopause that if we put strength training in, and become more muscle centric, where we're building our muscle, building our strength, our power, our bone, then it also attenuates some of these side effects that we see from perimenopause.

女性常常会感到：我正在增加内脏脂肪，流失瘦体重，变得虚弱，静息血糖突然进入了糖尿病前期范围。

That women really are like, I'm putting on visceral fat, I'm losing my lean mass, I'm getting weak, and my resting blood glucose is suddenly in the pre diabetic range.

力量训练有助于改善所有这些问题。

Strength training helps with all of those things.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你已经说得很清楚了，对吧？

I mean, you've made the case, right?

增强爆发力、改善平衡、提升力量、激活中枢神经系统反应、降低阿尔茨海默病风险、提高骨密度、减少内脏脂肪、改善体成分、降低血压、提升心血管健康、改善代谢健康、优化血糖控制——所有这些都可以通过每周几次短时间的重训直接实现。

Increase in your power, increase in your balance, your strength, central nervous system responses, reduced risk of Alzheimer's, increase in bone density, lowering your visceral fats, improving your body composition, better blood pressure, better cardiovascular health, better metabolic health, better glucose control, all of which you can directly address by lifting heavy for a small amount of time, several times a week.

明白吗？

Okay?

所以，我们已经说明了这一点，斯泰西，我觉得你讲得非常出色。

So we've made that case, Stacy, I think you've made it beautifully.

对于在听的男性来说，我们也会获得很多这些益处。

And for the men who are listening, we're also gonna get a lot of those benefits as well.

尽管我们没有那些荷尔蒙变化，但我们依然会获得惊人的益处，对吧？

Even though we don't have those hormonal changes, we're still gonna get incredible benefits, aren't we?

当然。

Absolutely.

因为随着年龄增长，男性和女性都会对运动和蛋白质产生更强的合成抗性。

Because as we age, both men and women, we become more anabolically resistant to exercise and protein.

所以，你进行的力量训练越多，你的身体就越能响应，从而构建肌肉和骨骼，男性和女性都是如此。

So the more strength training you put in, the more your body responds to building muscle and building bone, both men and women.

所以，当我们看待衰老时，会看到女性有一个明确的时间点，突然间她们就感受到了衰老的影响，那就是围绝经期。

So yeah, it's just when we look at aging, we see women have this definitive point in time where all of a sudden they're feeling the effects of aging, and it's perimenopause.

而男性则是以更线性的方式衰老，我们在他们40多岁和60多岁时会看到一些变化，但这些变化不如女性在围绝经期所经历的那样明显。

Whereas men age in more of a linear fashion, we see a blip in their 40s, and we see a blip in their 60s, but it's not as overt as what's happening to women in perimenopause.

因此，女性几乎有一种紧迫感。

So there's almost a sense of urgency for women.

因为你的生物学机制正在改变，你的生理状态也在变化。

Like the biology is changing, your physiology is changing.

我的意思是，你是否认为你的核心信息既是赋权，同时也带有紧迫性？

And I mean, would you say that's fair to say that your message is, it's one of empowerment, but it's also one of urgency.

是的，你提到了琼安，她很晚才开始训练，但这也说明永远都不算晚。

Yes, you've acknowledged Joan who started training late, so it's never too late at the same time.

为什么要等到六七十岁才行动呢？

Why wait until your sixties and seventies?

如果你现在就能接收到这个信息，为什么不从三十岁就开始呢？

If you can get the message now, why not start in your thirties?

是的。

Yeah.

我说这话是有深厚的耐力运动背景的。

And I say this coming from an incredible endurance background.

我曾经是超马跑者，参加过铁人三项和公路自行车赛，还参加过Xterra比赛，完全在耐力运动领域受过专业验证。

Like I was an ultra runner, I raced Ironman, I raced road bikes, I did Xterra, like fully vetted in endurance world.

但力量训练很早就进入了我的视野，直到我在斯坦福大学与玛西亚·斯特凡尼克合作，研究女性健康倡议的DEXA数据时，才真正理解了它的价值和力量——我们开始关注哪些人拥有更多瘦体重、坚持力量训练，而哪些人没有，以及这些因素如何影响健康和寿命。

But strength training is something that was exposed to me early days, but I didn't really understand the value and the power of it until I started working with Marcia Stefanik at Stanford in the Women's Health Initiative data, where we really started looking at the outcomes and longevity from DEXA's of who had more lean mass and who did strength training versus those who didn't.

这甚至根本不是为了缓解更年期症状。

So it wasn't really even about attenuating any of the menopausal symptoms.

而是要看看那些在60多岁进入研究、如今已八九十岁的女性，谁的生活质量和生存状态最好。

It was about let's look at the viability and the quality of life for women who entered the study when they were in their 60s, and now they're in their 80s or 90s, who's doing the best.

结果发现，那些更注重肌肉量和力量训练的女性表现最佳。

And it was those women who were more muscle centric and strength oriented.

于是我心想，好吧，现在我们真的要深入研究力量训练了。

And I was like, okay, now let's really start getting into the strength training thing.

好的，我们接着谈谈你建议女性在变老时应关注的第二项关键运动——高强度间歇训练（HIIT）。

Okay, let's move on to the second key exercise that you are recommending women pay attention to as they get older, HIIT training, high intensity in sport training.

这是一个被广泛使用的术语。

That is a term that is used a lot.

但它经常被误解。

It is misunderstood a lot.

那你从头开始讲讲吧？

So why don't you take it from the top?

它到底是什么？

What is it?

为什么它对我们所有人，尤其是对随着年龄增长的女性来说如此重要？

And why is it so important for all of us, but particularly, I guess, for women to do as they get older?

是的。

Yeah.

在全球范围内，西方社会已经变得非常安逸，生活在不挑战身体的环境中。

So, globally, Western society has become very comfortable in environments that doesn't challenge the body.

对吧？

Right?

我们待在温度适宜的房间里，食物和水随时可得。

We sit in rooms that are temperate, we have food and water available all the time.

所以当我们要求一个人变得不适时，他们会说：高强度间歇训练是锻炼中让人不适的部分，正是这部分真正带来了积极的改变。

So when we ask someone to become uncomfortable, they're like, High Intensity Interval Training is the uncomfortable part of exercise that really does invoke positive change.

当我们谈论高强度间歇训练时，指的是将训练分为两极：高强度区间达到我们最大努力的80%以上，而恢复期则在50%左右的体力水平下持续一到四分钟。

So when we talk about high intensity interval training, it is where we're looking at polarizing a session, where intervals are 80% or more of our maximum effort, and a recovery can be anywhere from one to four minutes at 50% of our capacity.

斯蒂西，我能打断一下吗？因为‘两极化’这个词，有些听众可能没听过，你能解释一下什么是两极化吗？

Can I just pause you there, Stacy, only because the term polarized, some people who are listening maybe haven't heard that, if you could just explain what polarization is?

另外，当你提到80%和50%时，你并不是真的要求每个人都得用心率监测器来精确测量这些数据，对吧？

But also then when you say 8050%, you're not necessarily implying that people have to get heart rate monitors and measure all this stuff, are you?

所以你能澄清一下这两点吗？这样大家在接下来的讨论中都能跟上节奏。当然可以。

So could you just clarify those two things just so everyone's on board with this as we go Sure.

当我提到两极化时，我指的是努力的最高端和最低端。

So when I talk about polarized, I mean the top end of effort and the very bottom end of effort.

我们希望避开中间地带。

We want to stay out of the middle.

因为中间部分我们称之为灰色地带。

Because the middle is what we call the gray zone.

我之前提到过，那种状态太难了算不上轻松，太轻松了又算不上难。

And I mentioned it earlier, where it's too easy to be hard.

太难了不够轻松，太轻松了又不够难。

And it's too hard to be easy.

所以在这种中间地带，你很难获得明显的适应性提升。

So you don't really get very much adaptation in that kind of middle zone.

所以我们需要极致的高强度和极致的低强度。

So we want the really hard part and the really easy part.

我们把这种训练方式称为极化训练。

And then we call that polarized training.

当我提到80%时，以1到10的强度等级来说，你的努力程度是8、9或10。

When I talk about 80%, on a scale of one to 10, you're hitting an eight, nine or 10 in our efforts.

而在恢复阶段，你的努力程度是4或5。

And for recovery, we're hitting a four or five in our effort.

所以我们实际上就是说，好吧，把强度降到非常低，确保完全恢复后再进行下一轮训练。

So we're really like, Okay, bring it right on down to really easy trying to recover fully before we hit the next interval.

当我们谈论高强度间歇训练时，其中还包含一个子类，就是冲刺间歇训练，我稍后会讲到。

So when we're talking about high intensity interval training, there's also a subset in there, sprint interval training, which I'll get to in a minute.

但一个非常好的高强度间歇训练例子，就是我们常说的EMOM，即每分钟开始时进行训练。

But an example, a really good example of high intensity interval training is something that we like to say, EMOM, every minute on the minute.

在第一分钟，你可能会做收腹跳或开合跳。

So for one minute, you might be doing tuck jumps or star jumps.

第二分钟，你可能会做壶铃摆动。

The next minute, you might be doing some kettlebell swings.

第三分钟，你可能会做跳跃弓步。

The third minute, you might be doing some jump lunges.

第四分钟，你可能又回到壶铃摆动。

And then the fourth minute, maybe you're throwing kettlebell swings back in.

第五分钟则完全休息。

The fifth minute's fully off.

所以你有四分钟的时间在工作，大概持续五十秒。

So you have four minutes where you're working probably fifty seconds.

所以你有十秒钟的时间切换到下一个动作。

So you have ten seconds to go to the next exercise.

因此，四分钟的高强度训练，接着一分钟完全恢复，然后再重复四分钟。

So four minutes of pretty hard work, one minute of full recovery, and then you hit the four minutes again.

这是一种高强度间歇训练的形式。

And that's a form of high intensity interval training.

没错。

Right.

所以你进行四分钟的训练，一分钟恢复。

So you release four minutes of work, one minute recovery.

这就是高强度间歇训练。

So that's high intensity interval training.

如果我谈到冲刺间歇训练这个子类，那么恢复时间就特别重要，而且会更长。

If I talk about the subset of sprint interval training, this is where the recovery is really important, and it's longer.

在冲刺间歇训练中，持续时间是三十秒或更短，要尽全力去完成。

So with sprint interval training, it's thirty seconds or less, as hard as you can possibly go.

然后你需要两到三分钟的完全恢复，因为你希望下一次冲刺能同样用力，甚至更用力。

And then you have two to three minutes of full recovery because you're trying to be able to do that interval just as hard, if not harder.

这并不意味着只是跑步冲刺。

And it doesn't mean running sprint.

‘冲刺’这个词实际上指的是努力的程度。

The sprint term is really about the effort.

你能在三十秒或更短的时间内使出多大的力气？

How hard can you go for thirty seconds or less?

可能是跑楼梯，也可能是壶铃摆动、战绳、跑步。

It could be running upstairs, it could be kettlebell swings, it could be battle ropes, it could be running.

也可能是划船机。

It could be a salt bike.

也可能是划船，也可能是游泳。

It could be a rowing It could be swimming.

它可以是任何一种运动方式，只要强度在1到10的尺度上达到10，并持续三十秒或更短。

It could be any kind of mode of exercise as long as the intensity is at that 10 on a scale of one to 10 for thirty seconds or less.

然后需要两到三分钟的完全恢复，以让中枢神经系统和部分代谢能力恢复，以便再次完成这个间歇。

And then the recovery is two to three minutes to fully recover your central nervous system and some of your metabolic capacity to be able to hit that interval again.

大多数人一开始会觉得：这听起来挺简单的。

Most people were like, that sounds really easy.

所以我只需要在三十秒内拼命努力，也许能做四到五组。

So I have to push really hard for thirty seconds, maybe I'll be able to do four or five of those.

当他们刚开始做时，做完第二组后就会说：我受不了了，不想再做了。

When they first start doing them after the second one, they're like, I'm done, I don't want to do this again.

但真正重要的是要理解这种训练与高强度间歇训练的区别，因为它们的作用完全不同。

But it's really important to understand that subset versus high intensity interval training, because they do two different things.

如果我们来看冲刺间歇训练，那就是三十秒或更短时间里尽全力，中间完全恢复。

So if we look at sprint interval training, so that's thirty seconds or less, as hard as you possibly can, with full recovery in between.

这种训练对身体的刺激和压力非常强烈，能引发多种表观遗传变化。

This is such a strong stimulus and stress to the body that it creates a myriad of epigenetic changes.

这意味着骨骼肌内会发生更持久的变化。

So this means more permanent changes within the skeletal muscle.

最重要的是，我们讨论的是GLUT4蛋白。

Most importantly, we talk about the GLUT4 protein.

如果我们把胰岛素看作一把钥匙，它能打开细胞的门，让葡萄糖进入。

So if we think about insulin as a key, opens the door to the cell to allow glucose to come in.

但当我们进入围绝经期及以后，胰岛素的效果就没那么好了。

But as we get to be perimenopausal and onwards, insulin doesn't work so well.

就像一把生锈的钥匙插在锁里，无法完全打开门。

It's like a rusty key in the lock, doesn't quite open the door.

这就是胰岛素抵抗。

So that's insulin resistance.

我们讨论的是GLUT4蛋白。

We talk about GLUT4 proteins.

这就像一条秘密通道打开，说：嘿，葡萄糖，快进来。

This is like the secret passageway that opens up and says, Hey, glucose, come on in.

因此，当我们进行超高强度训练时，会开始表达更多的GLUT4蛋白。

So we're doing that super high intensity work, we start to express more of those GLUT4 proteins.

现在，葡萄糖的摄入变得更容易了。

So now we have availability of glucose coming in.

因此，我们确实能获得更好的血糖控制效果。

And so we really do get the benefit of better glucose control.

超高强度训练的另一个好处是，我们会释放出更多的肌因子。

The other thing with that super high intensity work is we now have a greater amount of myokines that are released.

这些肌因子是骨骼肌在运动时释放的微小激素信使。

So these are those little hormone messengers that get released from skeletal muscle under work.

肌因子的作用是向肝脏发出信号，告诉我们不需要将这些游离脂肪酸转化为酯化脂肪酸。

And what the myokine does, is it goes and signals to the liver that we don't need to change the molecular structure of these free fatty acids, acids into an esterified fatty acid.

酯化脂肪酸是被储存为内脏脂肪的形式。

So esterified fatty acids is the form that gets stored as visceral fat.

因此，肌因子会说：不，我们希望它们保持为游离脂肪酸，以便被运送到线粒体中作为能量消耗。

So instead, the myokines say, no, we want them to stay as free fatty acids, so that we can pull them into the mitochondria to use it as rest.

因此，它也改善了我们的整体血脂谱。

So it improves our total lipid profile as well.

所以当你提到游离脂肪酸时，通俗地说，你指的是脂肪。

So so when you say free fatty acids, you're talking about, in layman's terms, fats.

你是在说，这种脂肪不会被储存为内脏脂肪——那种有害的、包裹在器官周围的脂肪，与多种慢性疾病风险增加有关——而当你进行短跑训练时，基本上可以绕过这一点。

And you're saying that this fat, instead of being stored as visceral fats, which is that sort of harmful internal fat that cakes our organs, is associated with an increased risk of frankly, lot of different chronic diseases, you bypass that basically when you're doing sprints in sport training.

因此，这直接有助于人们减少内脏脂肪和腹部脂肪。

So this directly is gonna help people with their visceral fat, also their belly fats.

这样说对吗？

Is that fair to say?

是的。

Yes.

所以当我们谈论代谢控制发生变化时，就是这个意思。

So that's when we're talking about the metabolic control of things that have changed.

间歇性冲刺训练对于实现代谢控制至关重要，它能帮助改善血糖、改善血脂，并减少腹部脂肪（包括内脏脂肪和皮下脂肪）的储存。

Sprint interval training is super important to getting that metabolic control, to being able to have better blood glucose, to being able to have better blood lipids, to have less storage of abdominal fat, both visceral and subcutaneous.

由于这是一种强烈的应激，我们观察到血液对血管壁产生的巨大剪切力，这会促使更多的血管内皮生长因子（VEGF）生成，而VEGF是一种能让血管更具弹性、更快舒张和收缩的生长因子。

And because it's such a strong stress, we see the sheer stress on the vessels, so that the amount of blood that's running against our blood vessels, it causes more what we call VEGF, which is a growth factor that allows our blood vessels to become more compliant to be able to stretch in and contract a lot faster.

因此，这种剪切力促使我们的血管发生适应性变化，从而更好地控制血压。

So we're getting that shear stress that's allowing our blood vessels to adapt to then have better blood pressure control.

从临床角度来看，当我们观察围绝经期女性时，会发现她们的血脂水平升高，尤其是低密度脂蛋白（LDL）和总胆固醇升高，直立耐受性发生变化，或者静息血压上升。

So when we're looking at all the things that happen to perimenopausal women from a clinical perspective, we see an elevation in our blood lipids, particularly our LDL and our total cholesterol, a change in our orthostatic tolerance, or actually an increase in our resting blood pressure.

我们还观察到静息血糖水平的变化，因为出现了更多的胰岛素抵抗。

We see a change in our resting blood glucose because we have more insulin resistance.

如果我们每周只进行两次这样的冲刺间歇训练，就能产生这些持久的、表观遗传层面的改变，从而显著改善临床结局。

So if we are doing just maybe two of these sprint interval sessions a week, we get these permanent changes, these epigenetic changes that is going to change that clinical outcome for the good.

因此，我们的血压控制更好，血糖水平更优，血脂谱也得到改善。

So we get better blood pressure control, we have better blood glucose, we have better blood lipid profiles.

当然，内脏脂肪的增加也会减少。

And of course, we have the reduction in the visceral fat gain.

尽管这过于简化了，而且显然人体并不是这样运作的，对吧？

Although this is overly simplistic, and of course, the body doesn't work like this, right?

我们可以说，我们详细讨论过的力量训练对我们的神经系统、力量和平衡在衰老过程中更有益，而冲刺间歇训练则更有利于我们的代谢健康。

Can we say that the strength training that we've been through in detail is better for our nervous system and our power and our balance as we get older, And the sprint interval training is better for our metabolic health.

我知道它们都是相关的。

I know they're both links.

你不能这样把它们完全分开，但这样看待问题是否有帮助？

Know you can't separate it like that, but is useful to look at it like that?

是的，绝对如此。

Yep, absolutely.

这样看待问题非常有用。

It is very useful to look at it that way.

因为当女性面临更年期的变化时，有些女性在代谢方面会遇到更严重的临床后果，而她们的力量下降可能并不明显。

Because there's when women are faced with what's going on, some women are faced with more scary clinical outcomes with regards to what's happening from a metabolic standpoint, and they might not be seeing as much decrease in their strength.

对。

Yeah.

因此，她们会更注重代谢控制。

So they're going to want to put more of an emphasis on metabolic control.

所以她们会更倾向于进行冲刺训练。

So they're going to lean into the sprint stuff.

大多数女性会开始看到身体成分的外观变化。

Most women start to see aesthetic changes of body comp.

而这些外观变化比临床指标更让她们害怕，因为临床指标只是处于边缘状态。

And that scares them more than the clinical because the clinical is just on the edge.

因此她们会更倾向于力量训练，因为她们想要力量和肌肉带来的美感。

So they're going to gravitate more towards the strength training, because they want the power and the strength and they want more of the aesthetic value of building muscle.

所以这取决于个人的选择。

So it is that individual choice.

我们知道这些事情都在发生。

It's like, but we know these things are happening.

但当我们观察正态分布曲线时，每个人的情况都不尽相同。

It's just when we look at the bell curve, there are people all over the place.

因此从个人角度来看，最重要的是现在我们能优先关注哪个方面？

So from an individual standpoint, it's like, what's the most important point right now that we can work on?