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你好。
Hi.
我是费丝，欢迎收听《田野与福利》。
I'm Faith, and welcome to Field and Foley.
今天我们的嘉宾是来自新加坡的录音师安德·舒尔，他拥有二十多年参与国际电影、高端剧集和纪录片的丰富经验。
Our guest today is Ande Schurr, a Singapore based production sound mixer with over twenty years of international experience in feature films, high end series, and documentaries.
他最近的作品包括Netflix和BBC的《蝇王》以及《猴子人》。
Most recently, his credits include Lord of the Flies on Netflix and BBC, and Monkey Man.
他还担任了塔伊加·维迪提导演的电影《寻找野孩子》的现场录音师。
He was also the production sound mixer on Taika Waititi's feature film Hunt for the Wilderpeople.
安德致力于在每一个项目中捕捉真实而高保真的声音质感。
Ande is dedicated to capturing authentic high fidelity textures and sound in every project he's on.
嗨，安德，欢迎来到节目。
Hi, Ande, and welcome to the show.
嗨，费丝。
Hi, Faith.
能来和你聊天真的很开心。
It's great to be here talking to you.
很高兴你能来参加节目。
It's awesome to have you on.
先跟我们说说，在《蝇王》这样的项目里，你的工作具体是做什么、怎么安排的？
To start out, first tell us what your job involved and what you do and organize on a project like Lord of the Flies.
是的，我的职位是现场录音师。
Yeah, so my job was the production sound mixer.
简单说，我们的任务就是录下所有外景中的对白，还有各种环境音——比如鸟叫、海浪声，所有那些构成孩子们所处世界的声音。
So, you know, it's our job to basically capture all of the on location dialogue and all the location sounds that we may hear, the ambiences, the birds, the waves, everything that makes that world that the boys are performing within.
太棒了。
Awesome.
《蝇王》是在哪儿拍的？
Where was Lord of the Flies being shot at?
我知道剧中的设定是个与世隔绝、几乎没人烟的小岛。
I know in the world of the show, it's this very isolated, not a lot of human contact island.
拍摄的时候，你们是在哪里取景的？
For the shoot, what was the location you were shooting at?
如果你去东南亚，那里叫东盟，也就是东南亚地区，其中有个国家叫马来西亚。
So if if you go to Southeast Asia, we call it ASEAN, but Southeast Asia, and then there's Malaysia.
马来西亚有很多岛屿，其中一个叫兰卡威。
And then Malaysia has an island of many islands, but one is called Langkawi.
兰卡威周围还有一片群岛，叫兰卡威群岛。
And then there's the Langkawi Archipelago, which has many islands off that island.
每天拍完我们都会回到兰卡威过夜，那里是我们的大本营。
And so we'd be living on every night, we'd come back to Langkawi as our base.
有些镜头是在兰卡威主岛上拍的，但大部分地方都要坐半小时以上的船才能到其他小岛。
And some we had some shoots on the actual Langkawi Island, but most of it was a half hour plus boat ride away to various islands.
我们经过的一些岛是禁止登岸的，比如有个岛叫蛇岛。
Some islands we passed were were forbidden to to land because they were called like Snake Island.
据说那些抓到的蛇都被扔到那个岛上去了。
It's like the island where all the snakes that were found were dumped.
所以我们一看到那个岛，赶紧开快艇绕过去，避得远远的。
So, yeah, we're like, you know, like, very happy to to jet boat past that one.
到了那个岛之后，通常还得徒步走一段路，有时候一走就是一小时。
And then once we arrived on the said island, often there there'd be a hike involved, sometimes up to an hour.
整个拍摄特别贴近自然，节奏也挺紧张的。
So, it was a very outdoorsy, you know, energetic kind of a shoot.
那个蛇岛要是录点声音，肯定特别有意思，不过肯定也挺危险的。
That Snake Island would make for a lot of really interesting recordings, but dangerous, I bet.
没错。
That's right.
我每次到岛上，都会把麦克风放下，就地过夜，跟在其他岛上一样。
I'll be dumping my microphone and leaving it for the night, just like I did on the other islands.
对。
Yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我能想象，在岛上拍摄面对天气变化和恶劣环境会带来很多严峻的挑战。
I can imagine being on location on the island would present a lot of intense challenges with dealing with the elements and some complications weather wise.
这些条件通常给你们带来了哪些具体困难？
What challenges generally did those conditions bring you?
我先简单说一下整体情况，然后再详细展开。
And just a little overview, and then we'll dive right into it.
主要是下雨和风暴。
It was really the rain and the storms.
十月份整整二十三天下雨，有时候雨势大到我们不得不暂停拍摄，甚至发生过有人坐在餐饮桌旁，直接被风吹得从椅子上飞起来，椅子也跟着掀翻了。
In October, had twenty three days of rain, and sometimes it was so fierce, we had to stop filming, we even had a situation where someone sitting at the table, catering table, was blown off their chair, and the chair flew up.
所以，那真是够地狱的一天。
So, you know, that was a pretty hell a day.
没错，首先这些环境条件本身就是个大问题，人们常问，拍摄现场最大的挑战是什么？
So, yeah, the conditions, first of all, and it's something that, you know, when people say, well, what were the greatest challenges on set?
实际上，挑战多得数不清，而且在解决录音本身的问题之前，我们还得先应付一大堆其他麻烦。
Well, actually, there were many, and there were many you had to deal with before you got to the actual challenge of recording sound.
比如，怎么抵达现场就是个大问题，我们所有人都在同一条船上，说白了就是一起扛。
And one is just the logistics of getting there, and we're all on the same boat, so to speak.
我们都得学会正确地做好防护，该裹的裹，该遮的遮。
And we all embraced it, you know, you've got to cover up in the right way.
就像导演马克·马登总说的，我们整天都湿着，不是被海浪打湿，就是被汗水浸透，或者被湿气裹着，反正没干过。
And it's, as Mark Munden, director would always say, it's like, we were always wet, either with sea spray, with perspiration, with, you know, sweats, with humidity, whatever.
所以，这些我们都慢慢学会了接受。
So, you know, it's something we just learned to embrace.
至于实际的录音挑战，那就更复杂了，得想办法把话筒放哪儿。
And, you know, in terms of the actual challenge itself, then that's another level where we had to figure out, you know, where to put the mics.
因为外景收音嘛，有时候情况简单，头顶上架个吊杆就完美了，对吧。
Because, you know, on location sound, you know, in some situations, you know, it's just a nice boom over the top and and it's perfect, you know.
但这次是大远景，整个海滩和丛林全在画面里，二十多个男孩围坐在一起，就像开个小镇议会。
But where you've got the the wide shot capturing the entire beach and jungle and you've got, you know, 20 plus boys having a meeting, a town council, so to speak.
这里面有十九段是正式对白，剩下的全是孩子们即兴吵闹，你得想办法收清楚——而且他们都没穿衣服，因为服装在拍摄过程中慢慢烂掉了，你知道的，就像在热带岛上被困了几个月，谁都会慢慢把衣服脱掉的。
And there you know, there's like, you know, maybe 19 actual dialogue parts, official scripted parts, and the rest are ad lib, just boys being rowdy, you know, then you've got to and the boys are topless because the the wardrobe disintegrates through the episodes, you know, because they're on a just like, you know, if we were on a hot island, you know, crash landed there over a few months, we'd probably, you know, start to loosen up the clothing a bit.
所以，确实有太多让人一刻都不敢松懈的有趣难题。
So, yeah, there there are lots of fun challenges that you couldn't take your eye off it for a moment.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我懂。
I bet.
你们平时是怎么给设备做防水处理的？
What are some of the ways that you went about waterproofing your gear?
也许这是后期人员的固有想法。
Maybe this is a bias post production person thing.
我们对设备特别小心。
We're very protective of our gear.
确实如此。
But Absolutely.
我猜湿度也对设备构成了威胁。
Even the humidity, I bet, posed a threat to the equipment.
设备非常敏感。
It's very sensitive.
没错。
That's right.
说实话，我总是对咱们用的设备的可靠性感到惊讶。
I mean, that's one thing I'm always amazed at the reliability of the gear we use, you know.
我们这个级别，每天都要靠这些设备干活，不管什么情况都得稳得住。
It's at that level, at our level of, you know, really needing our tools to perform day in, day out, no matter what.
特别感谢像Sound Devices、Wizicom、Lectrosonics这些品牌，还有其他所有设备，我真的特别满意它们的表现，要是你想听细节，我随时可以讲。
It's so grateful that, you know, the likes of the sound devices and the Wizzicom and the Lectrosonics, you know, and the sunken and the know, the all the gear, and I'm happy to go into details, you know, precisely, I was very happy how it held up.
至于湿度，我一点问题都没遇到。
And I had no issues at all with the humidity.
说到下雨，那跟海边的情况可不一样。
Now, in terms of rain, yes, that's a different situation than the sea.
那阵子雨下得太大了，我们只能不停地换地方，你也知道，拍戏就是这样。
You know, we had so much rain affect us that and we had to keep moving, as you do.
我们在片场嘛，导演可能之前看中的地方出了问题，但到了现场，他们还是会说：‘要不咱们绕个角去看看？’
We're on a film set, you know, the director, they may have wrecked a particular location, but, you know, when they get there on the day, they're like, let's just peek around the corner.
Mark Munden、Ben Rogers是第一副导演，还有另一位Mark，是摄影指导Wolf。
And so, you know, Mark Munden, Ben Rogers is the first AD, and and Mark Wolf, another Mark, who's the DOP.
他们俩就溜达着去探路，我呢，远远跟在后头，心里嘀咕：这俩人到底要去哪儿？
So they go for a little wander, and I'm just, like, keeping a a distance behind them thinking, where are these guys off to?
那他们就得改了，毕竟好奇心驱使嘛。
Well, then they're gonna have to change because of their curiosity.
总之，现场来回变动特别多。
So anyway anyway, so, you know, there's a lot of movement.
你不可能直接扛个超漂亮的声卡过去，就是那种在Instagram上总能看到的设备。
You can't just rock in there with a big beautiful sound card that we all love to see on Instagram.
说实话，我挺喜欢看那些专业设备的配置。
You know, I'm always like enjoying seeing those rigs.
老实说，我确实带了声卡，但因为拍摄的特殊性，只用了一两天就收起来了。
To be honest, I actually did bring my sound card, but I could only pull it out for a very few days because of the the nature of the shoot.
你懂的。
You know?
实在太不方便了。
It was just so impractical.
所以，回答你的问题，一把结实耐用的雨伞是必不可少的。
So, yeah, to answer your question, the umbrella, a strong, sturdy umbrella is essential.
就是那种高尔夫伞，加了额外加固的。
You know, golf umbrella type with with extra reinforcement.
风真的特别大。
The wind is very strong.
再带几把小一点的伞，方便在特别近的灌木丛之间移动的时候用。
And then some smaller umbrellas for maybe when you're moving between very, very close bushes and stuff like that.
所以是为了让雨打在伞上的声音别太影响录音？
So that the rain the sound of the rain hitting them didn't impact the the recordings too much?
这问题挺有意思的。
It's a funny question.
有时候雨下得小，拍戏的时候，正巧能跟其他部门配合，这正是现场拍摄的妙处。
Sometimes it was light enough that in conversation, and this is the beauty of being on set, you know, you had this collaboration with these other departments.
要是只是细雨，又拍不进镜头——很多时候因为光线和角度的关系，确实拍不到——那就可以在演员头顶上方撑一块白布，当然得够高，不能入画。
And so, you know, when it comes to just light drizzle coming down, if it's not visible in the camera, and often it's not at a certain point because of the light and the angle and such, then you can get away with having a very soft kind of like a white cloth above the actor, obviously, you know, high enough so it's not in the frame.
但这些布置都不是自己冒出来的。
And you know, and those things don't build themselves.
你得去跟灯光师和道具师沟通，把事情安排好。
You've to talk to the gaffer and the grip and and, know, get things happening.
不能等到最后一刻才临时通知。
And you can't just call it, you know, last minute.
当雨势大到能看出来的时候，情况就不一样了。
So it really and then there's a point where the rain is visible.
于是，一群帮手带着他们五颜六色的粉红色雨伞来到片场，撑在演员头顶上。
And then along came all the wonderful helpers with their colorful pink umbrellas on set over the boys.
但他们还是想继续拍。
And then they still want to shoot.
我就说，伙计们，我们现在得赶紧把录音搞定。
And I'm like, guys, we're kind of hurrying that sound now.
不过这种情况其实没发生几次。
But you know, that didn't happen too much.
更多时候是停下来等，等雨小一点，等得可真不少。
It was often it was that pause and wait, and and there was a lot of waiting.
是的
Yeah.
这真的太棒了。
That is really, really cool.
这对以后的外景录音很有帮助。
That is good to know for future field recording.
至于麦克风怎么戴在演员身上，就像你之前说的，衣服都快烂了，他们大部分时间都是赤裸上身。
And when it comes to mic placement on the boys themselves, as you said before, the clothing kind of disintegrating, they're topless most of the time.
那些麦克风都放哪儿了？
Where did those mics go?
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Yeah.
衣服的破损是故意设计的。
And disintegrate by design as the costume.
所以这又是一次与服装部门的精彩合作，服装主管Mew Yo和Toto——我们音效团队的王牌——都参与其中。
And so that's that became another very wonderful collaboration with the costume department with costume supervisor, Mew Yo, and Toto, who's who's the sound department superhero.
他一直待在拍摄现场，随时配合服装组的工作。
He's standby on set costume.
我们通常会告诉他们麦克风该藏在哪儿，他们就帮我们缝出假口袋，或者用毛皮巧妙地遮住。
So basically, we would tell the guys where we want the mics to hide, and they would help us sew them in there to create false pockets, hide them in fur in a particular way.
我们非常感谢他们在这件事上付出的努力。
So we we were very grateful for their part to play in in that.
具体来说，经过和音效团队、我出色的团队，还有我的音效助理Reza Ferrianto反复试验后，我们终于找到了最佳的麦克风位置。
Speaking specifically, we found eventually after a lot of, should we say, R and D with the with the sound team, my incredible team, and, Reza Ferrianto, my sound assist, we we nailed down where the sweet spot was.
我们发现，这些男孩都穿着典型的英国男校校服短裤，还系着皮带。
And actually, we found because all the boys were wearing these, like, schoolboy shorts, you know, every typical schoolboy would wear at a boys school in The UK, and they had the leather belt on.
而皮带重叠的地方，恰好能形成一个小空隙，一个小小的空气腔。
And and then, obviously, where the leather belt overlaps, there is ability to have a slight air bubble, air pocket.
于是我们和服装组合作，把这处空隙调整到刚好够用，又不会太明显。
So we kind of worked with the costume to find a way to make that just big enough, but not too big to be obvious.
然后我们把麦克风放进去，留了点余量，用的是DPA。
And then we hit the mic in there with enough slack that we use the DPA.
我们特别喜欢DPA 6061这款核心麦克风，防水等级达到IP58。
We love the DPA 6,061 core mic, which is water resistant IP58.
所以它特别适合这种拍摄环境。
So it's very suitable for the conditions.
太棒了。
Nice.
它能应对非常大的声压，比如孩子们经常大喊大叫的情况。
It can handle very loud, you know, SPL and, you know, very loud shouting, which is what the boys basically did all the time.
这就是我们能把麦克风藏在几乎赤膊的男孩身上的秘诀。
So that was how we got away with hiding the mic on basically topless boys.
我猜把麦克风缝进去也帮了大忙，能减少衣物摩擦的噪音，哪怕布料有轻微晃动。
And I bet sewing it in helped with a lot of that to remove cloth noise if there were any bumps on the actual material.
因为整个过程确实非常折腾。
Because it's very, very physical too.
这些场景大多非常活跃，人物来回跑动，动作特别多。
A lot of these scenes are very active, very running around, lots of lots of movement.
所以这对你们来说可能挺有挑战的。
So that might have been difficult for you guys
确实如此。
as Exactly.
而且当时吊杆的使用也至关重要。
And that was with the the critical importance of the boom up as well.
你可能会以为，吊杆主要就是用来录场记板和副导演的指令，尤其是在特别吵、环境音很杂的情况下。
You know, you may be forgiven by thinking, oh, you know, the boom up is probably just there to capture the the idea of the slate, the first AD's instructions when it's a very loud, you know, atmospheric conditions.
没错，这确实是事实。
And for sure, that was true.
拍瀑布那场戏的时候，噪音大到我什么也听不见。
When we were filming in the Waterfall scene, it was so deafening, I couldn't hear anything.
所以当阿迪特像录演员一样用吊杆录副导演的指令时，我真是特别感激，这样我才能听清指示。
So I was so grateful when Adit was, you know, booming the first AD like he would an actor, you know, so I could hear the instructions.
但要是以为他只做了这些，那就错了。
But that would be a mistake to think that's that was all he did.
他当时无处不在，一刻都没停过。
He was he was everywhere all the time.
所以阿迪特在那些麦克风位置不理想的时候，总是守在旁边。
And so Adit was basically there for all those times when the the mic when the position of the boys, I.
比如当大家蹲下来的时候，话筒的黄金收音位置就会失效，整个音效就垮了。
E, they were crouching and so that buckle would would, you know, like collapse, that whole that whole beautiful sweet spot, you know, would collapse, the idea collapsed.
他们俩配合得特别默契，非常关键，而要让这一切无缝衔接，最重要的就是多角度录制。
So the two of them were hand in hand, incredibly useful, and the key is obviously seamlessly finding a way to make that work, and a lot of it is coverage.
多角度录制对确保声音在不同麦克风、不同场景和不同地点之间保持连贯性，起着至关重要的作用。
And coverage plays an incredible part in ensuring a seamless continuity of sound across microphones, across locations, across scenes.
对。
Mhmm.
没错。
Mhmm.
你们用的是哪种吊杆麦克风？
What kind of boom mics were you using?
你提到过男孩们戴的麦克风类型，但具体是哪个品牌的？
You mentioned the type of on the boys mic, but what was the brand that you were using?
是的。
Yes.
吊杆麦克风的话，我们特别喜欢森海塞尔的。
So for the boom mics, had we love the Sankens.
我真的很喜欢日本产的森海塞尔。
I really love the Japanese Sanken.
有CS2和CS3e这两种型号。
There's a CS2 and then a CS3e.
这些都属于枪式麦克风。
So these are, you know, shotgun mics.
它们对侧面杂音的抑制能力很强，特别适合在海滩上高角度收音，还能避开海浪的干扰。
They can, you know, quite resistant to, you know, of off axis rejection, which is really useful for quite high up booming on the beach and and angling away from the waves.
是的。
Yeah.
但当你在浪花里拍摄时，吊杆麦克风就不太管用了，因为你会把浪花的声音也放大进来。
But then there's a point where you're shooting in the waves, and so the boom then becomes not very useful because you're then amplifying all the waves.
这时候我就改用森海塞尔MKH 50，它小得多，可以灵活地到处移动，像盯着DEET一样快速调整麦克风的位置，效果真的很惊人。
So then I go to my Sennheiser MKH 50, which is a lot smaller and can be, you know, poked around like a just so fast watching the DEET, you know, move around the mic all over the place is quite incredible.
你得时刻留意麦克风与海浪之间的距离和声场角度。
Always being conscious and aware of the proximity and the perspective of the sound of the mic direction in relation to the wave.
听起来不会像那种乱七八糟的360度环绕音效。
It doesn't sound like, you know, some crazy three sixty thing.
这事儿确实挺讲究的。
It can be very scientific.
各种麦克风、各种指向性、各种类型，都得搞清楚。
All the different type of microphones and all the different polar patterns and all the different kinds.
在那种环境下选对麦克风，肯定得对这些了如指掌。
I'm sure you have to be very knowledgeable about all of that in order to pick the correct microphone in those scenarios.
没错。
Right.
你说得有意思，说实话，我觉得自己算不上特别懂技术的人。
It's funny you say that because, you know, when I think about myself honestly, I don't consider myself an incredibly technical guy.
对我来说，关键是现场协作——了解各个部分怎么配合，遇到问题时能灵活应对，同时心里有数，知道什么声音才够棒。
I feel like for me, you know, it's the onset collaboration, which is really important, knowing how all the parts work, being extremely flexible where the challenges come up, and then just knowing enough to know what's gonna sound great.
我把‘什么声音才够棒’当成我的指南针。
I keep that as my as my North Star, like what's gonna sound great?
如果我脑子里塞满了极性模式、偏轴抑制这些技术细节，我反而会迷路。
And if I'm if my head is full of, like, technical polar patterns and off axis rejections, and I'm gonna be lost.
我就没法专心感受现场正在发生什么。
I won't be present to what's happening.
所以我刻意保持中等的技术水平，我更看重的是现场察言观色的能力，我觉得这才是更该培养的本事。
So I think I'm by design, I'm I'm I'm just okay, technically, but I much prefer the on set reading the room is if you like is I think a much more important skill to develop.
是的。
Yeah.
艺术和技巧结合在一起，才成就了它。
Both the art and the skill together makes it
完美。
perfect.
没错。
Exactly.
本特别兴奋的是，片子里用到了海螺的声音，那个声音最后被录了下来，还放进了成片。
One of the things Ben was super excited to hear about was the sound of the conch shell that ended up getting recorded and then ended up in the final cut.
我想问问，当时你是专门拿出去录的，还是就在拍摄现场直接录的？
My question to go along with that experience was, did you take it aside and record it separately, or was that sound recorded, like, in the scene?
那个声音完全是现场录的吗？
Was that just, like, totally organic?
完全是现场录的。
That was organic.
那个瞬间太棒了，我根本没多想，下意识就看向了导演马克·马登。
And that was such an it was so amazing, that moment, that I I just involuntary, without thinking, looked at the director, Mark Munden.
他也在那一刻看着我。
And and and he, a moment, looking at me too.
那一刻，就是那种感觉。
And it was just like, yeah.
等等。
Wait.
刚才到底发生了什么？
What just happened there?
我的意思是，那个场景本来就已经非常动人了。
I mean, it was a scene that was already incredible.
你知道吗，演 Piggy 的大卫，无论在戏里戏外，都有一种特别的温柔和感染力。
You know, David, who plays Piggy, has such a tenderness, such an incredible capacity on and off the set.
他身上既有成年人的沉稳，又带着孩子般的活泼，全部融合在了一起。
He was of an adult with with the the fun loving nature of a child, and he was all of that.
所以，他本身就已经把这场戏演得非常出色了。
And so he'd already brought a great scene.
他早就把那个美妙的场景演出来了。
He'd already developed you know, performed the beautiful scene.
但就在那一刻，他把信号贝壳砸在麦克风上，我们听见了他的呼吸，听见了他内心的痛苦和煎熬——那场火可能已经夺走了我们并不认识的人的生命。
But then when that happened, he cut the conch shell over the mic, and we could hear his breathing and the pain and the agony of the situation of the fire that may have killed people who we don't know.
那时他还不知道具体情况。
He doesn't know at that moment.
从那以后，整个场景一下子升华了。
It was really it just went to another level after that.
这太棒了。
That is awesome.
当你全情投入，突然意识到‘我们成了’的时候，那种感觉是最好的。
That's the best feeling ever when you're just in and you're just like, oh, we got it.
我们成了。
We got it.
没错。
Absolutely.
另外，我还想多聊聊那些被用进成片的环境音录音。
And then on top of that, I wanna talk more about the ambiences that you recorded that also made it into the the final cut.
不过在那之前，我想问个技术问题，因为我特别痴迷元数据和文件命名系统。
But one of the before that, I wanna ask a nerdy question because I'm I'm I'm a big nerd for metadata and and file naming systems.
不错。
Nice.
很好。
Nice.
那你是怎么把这些文件传过去的？
How did that how did that look sending that forward?
你给那些环境音文件是怎么命名的？希望它们最终都能用进成片。
What did your, like, naming system for those ambiences that you sent to hopefully and inevitably be used in the Final Cut?
这个交接过程具体是怎样的？
What did that what did that handover kind of look like?
是的。
Yeah.
现场录制的时候，我们每天都在拍，一天两次送成片，命名系统非常明确，大家都知道摄像和录音之间各自对应的是什么。但环境音的交接就不一样了。
The handover was unlike on set where we're recording, you know, every day, you know, and delivering rushes twice a day, in fact, which has a very clear naming system so everyone knows what's going on between camera, between sound.
我给环境音用的命名方式更偏向实用功能。
The naming convention I used for the ambiences were a little more functional.
所有文件都以‘LOTF’开头，也就是《蝇王》，然后下划线，接着是我在拍摄的岛屿名称。
So everything started with, you know, LOTF, Lord of the Flies, and then there'd be an underscore, and then there'd be the island that I was filming on.
比如‘Ddap’、‘红树林’之类的地点名，再加一个日期，最后是我在录音时捕捉到的关键声音特征。
So maybe it was Ddap or the or the mangroves or, you know, every key name, and then I'll have a date, and then I'll have some key sound that I had captured on the phoneme.
所以这套命名法更注重实用性。
So it was a bit more functional.
因为剪辑师需要这些环境音的时候，并不是马上就要，而是等他们先把所有对得上画面的素材理清楚之后。
So when the, you know, because I guess the at the moment where the editor needs that, it's not immediate.
通常他们过一阵子才会来问我几个问题，那时候我再给他们更新或者重新说明一下这些文件。
It comes a bit later once they've got their head around all the actual in sync stuff, and then they've asked me a few questions now and again, and I'll update them or refresh them on that.
很棒，真的很酷。
Nice, really cool.
是的，这确实挺专业的。
Yeah, that's more nerdy.
这正是我喜欢的类型。
That's that's for me.
我特别喜欢这类东西。
I I love that stuff.
没错。
That's right.
有趣的是，顺着这个专业话题来说，没错。
And what's interesting is, of course, the just to just to go with the nerdy line Yeah.
这是一种全景声麦克风。
Is, you know, it's ambisonic mic.
就是那种全景声麦克风，你知道的。
So the ambisonic mic, you know, right?
你说得对。
And and and you're right.
你是做杜比音效的，那一套东西。
You're Dolby, this and that.
我的意思是，我不太确定。
I mean, I don't know.
我没法插手你后期制作的那些工作。
I can't touch what you're doing in the post production.
但你知道，这是全景声技术。
But, you know, it's ambisonics.
你有四个麦克风单元，得精确调整相位，下载对应的App，它才不会乱响。
So you've these four capsules, you know, that need to be, you know, like phased in just the right ways to go to download the right app, and then, you know, it can't just, you know, go and roar.
整个过程其实挺有意思的。
So it's quite an interesting process.
而且还能随时调整听觉视角。
And they can then change the perspective.
举个例子，我之前做的一个全景声场景，因为岛屿特别窄，一边是森林，就在麦克风这一侧，另一边则是海浪拍岸。
And just one example is, you know, one of the atmos I was doing is, because the islands are often so thin, you know, you've got, like, the forest on one side, literally on this side of the mic, and then the crashing waves on the other.
于是我直接把麦克风放在这个动态区域正中央，然后道别，一整晚都搁那儿，当然，它是在陆地上，还盖着东西。
And so I put the mic smack bang in the middle of that dynamic, and then say goodbye, leave it overnight, you know, obviously, it was on dry land, covered with something.
关键是得有个麦克风，能扛得住这种极端环境。
And just having, you know, that kind of like the mic that can handle those extremes, you know, in the environment.
是的。
Yeah.
你具体用的是哪款全景声麦克风？
Which ambisonic microphone were you using specifically?
我特别喜欢森海塞尔的Ambeo VR。
Well, I really love the Sennheiser Ambeo, the VR.
这款麦克风就是专门为这种用途设计的。
So it's been designed specifically.
我相信本对这个特别了解，而且说实话，市面上可能还有更纯粹的设备。
I'm sure Ben knows all about it for And, you know, to be frank, there are probably more pure rigs out there.
但你得想想，你到底是在哪儿录的？
But you know, once again, you've got to think where are you?
你有多少时间可以折腾？
How much time do you have to fuss?
我需要一个高保真的一体化解决方案。
And I needed a one solution that was very high fidelity, but it was all in one package.
Sennheiser Ambeo 就做到了，配上合适的支架、防风罩、防风毛套这些配件，全都齐了。
And that's what the Sennheiser Ambeo did, you know, deliver for me with obviously the right mount, wind protection mount, wind jammer, etc.
而且它有四个输出通道，因为是全景声的，所以我接到了我的 MixPre 6 混音器上，就是 Sound Devices 那款。
And then obviously it has four outputs because it's ambisonic, so it's plugging into a mixer that I use my little MixPre six, sound devices MixPre six.
整个设备就是这套配置：Sennheiser Ambeo VR 麦克风。
That's the rig, that's the setup there, the Sennheiser Ambio VR mic.
我还想提一下，有些地方环境特别危险。
And I also mention there were occasions where, you know, the location was very risky.
我不敢拿麦克风去冒险。
I didn't want to risk the mic.
这麦克风可不便宜，对吧？
It's an expensive mic, right?
所以我备了个便宜点的，可以随便放，比如就在海浪拍打的沙滩边上，甚至一整晚留在滴水的洞穴里都没问题。
And so I had a more affordable backup that I could risk putting anywhere, you know, right next to the crashing waves on the beach, and leave it overnight in dripping water, dripping caves.
那就是Zoom H3-VR。
And that was the Zoom h three VR.
这小东西简直太棒了。
And that little little guy was just it's incredible.
是啊，没错。
I mean, yeah, sure.
音质上当然没法跟那个比。
Fidelity wise, it's not there to the same extent.
但它实在太小巧了。
But it is it's so small.
往里塞张大容量的SD卡，套个防风罩，随时就能用。
Put a large micro SD card inside that guy, put a little windsock around him, and, you know, it's it's good to go.
对。
Yeah.
就像你之前说的，这其实不一定要靠高端科技或者昂贵设备。
Like you were saying before, it's not even necessarily about all the big tech knowledge or gear.
关键是用什么方法最有效，能产出高质量的最终成果。如果这些录音最终都被用上了，那效果绝对是顶尖的。
It's about what works and what's efficient and what gets you good final product, which if they used lots of these recordings in the final product, obviously, it was absolutely stellar.
所以。
So
没错。
That's right.
完全正确。
Exactly right.
是的。
Yeah.
能再讲讲你晚上录环境音的具体过程吗？
Tell me more about the actual process of recording those those ambiences overnight.
你时间有限，得精挑细选地点，那你是怎么决定在哪儿录的？
How did you decide where to record in you're in limited time, so you have to pick your location strategically?
你是怎么
How did
做这些决定的？
you go about making those decisions?
你说得完全对。
You're absolutely right.
首先，关键是要弄清楚在我所处的环境里，我能捕捉到哪些多样化的声音场景。
So number one is, you know, comes down to what are the diverse sound worlds that I can capture in the world I'm in.
我们说的是那种深林，里面完全听不到水声。
So we're talking, you know, the deep forest where there's no sound of water at all.
我们说的是纯净的水声，纯粹的海浪声。
We're talking pure water, pure waves.
我们说的是半是水、半是陆地的地方。
We're talking half waves, half land.
我们说的还有昆虫的声音。
We're talking insects.
我们说的是鸟鸣。
We're talking birds.
还有那些之间各种各样的声音变化。
We're talking, you know, all those, all the variations in between that.
所以我决定，每个我们拍摄的岛屿，我都要亲自去一趟。
So I basically decided that every island we filmed at, I would try and get myself there.
如果没法在夜里把麦克风带过去，通常就得跟制作组和美术组协调，他们可比我们领先好多了——美术组提前几周就进场了，他们得搭景、清理枯木。
Either if I couldn't get a mic there overnight, which often required some logistical maneuverings with production and with the art department who are so far ahead of us, like the art department are like weeks ahead of the game, as they have to be, They're building things, they're clearing dead logs.
他们还得检查树木会不会在我们拍摄时砸到演员和工作人员。
They're checking the trees aren't gonna fall down on the crew and the cast when we're shooting.
他们提前到场非常重要。
You know, it's very important that they are there ahead of time.
但这也意味着他们会制造不少噪音，所以我不能跟他们一起上船，去同样的岛屿。
But that that that also mean that they would be making a lot of noise, so I couldn't just hop on the boat with them and and go with the same islands they were going to.
我得避开他们，利用手头可用的船，尽量不给制作组添上一笔昂贵的开销。
So I had to kind of like dodge them while making the most of the boats that were available and not make production pay a hefty bill for my wanderings.
所以，这些就是我的考虑。
So so yeah, those are my considerations.
如果没法 overnight 录音，我就会专门挑些安静的时间，比如午餐时间、清晨，或者拍完之后。
And and then if I couldn't get an overnight recording, I would just dedicate time, sometimes lunchtime, early morning, after the shoot, to just different quiet times.
只要能录到十到十五分钟扎实的环境音，对后期来说就是宝藏。
And just to get a solid, you know, ten, fifteen minutes of Atmos is still gold, you know, for the edit.
是的。
Yeah.
确实是非常耗费体力的工作。
Very very physical job.
在树林里到处徒步，什么的。
Hiking around in the woods and everything.
没错。
Absolutely.
对。
Yeah.
这就是现场录音的魅力之一吧。
And that's one of the beauties of of Location Sound, I guess.
吸引我的正是它这种身体上的投入感。
That's what attracts me to it is is the physicality of it.
我想，我们大家都喜欢这一点。
And, yeah, I guess we all enjoy that.
你平时也做对白剪辑，对吧？
And and and well, you do dialogue editing too.
没错。
Right?
那你平时也会出去录一些环境音和房间底噪来配合吗？
So are are you often out to capture some room tones and ambiances to complement right.
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
当然
For sure.
是的
Yeah.
确实能看出《蝇王》《猴子》和《寻找威德里人》这几部作品之间的共同点。
Definitely see the pattern between Lord of the Flies, Monkey Man, and Hunt for the Wilderpeople, especially.
这些片子和剧集里，角色们总是在拼命奔跑。
Those are all, like, movies and shows where they're running.
角色们简直是在狂奔。
Like, the characters are just booking it.
整个项目都充满高强度的节奏。
The whole entire project, very high intensity.
所以我敢肯定，这些项目在录制奔跑场景时，肯定也花了不少心思调整麦克风，尽量避免衣服摩擦的杂音。
So I'm sure those projects as well had to have some creative finagling with the mics on on the people to hopefully get all those running scenes to avoid cloth.
没错。
Exactly.
你说得对。
You know, you're right.
《荒野猎人》里塔伊加的拍摄节奏真的特别棒。
Hunt for the Wilderpeople, that was really great in the speed that Taika works at.
塔伊加做事就是快。
Taika works so fast.
要跟上他的节奏，你得提前布线，还得提前想好下一步。
And keep up with him, you've got to pre rig and got to think ahead of the game.
这正是他保持那种独特魅力的关键。
So and that's what keeps his magic, you know.
你可不想看他突然说：‘我先去喝杯咖啡，休息半小时，等团队准备好了再说。’
You don't want him just like going, I guess I'll just take a coffee break for half an hour while the crew gets ready.
不，不，不，绝对不行。
No, no, no, no.
你知道，因为他特别喜欢即兴发挥。
You know, because he loves Adlib.
他老是鼓励莱斯·达比、萨姆·尼尔和朱利安·丹尼森这些人，说：‘咱们再深入聊聊这个桥段吧。’
He loves asking, you know, Rhys Darby and Sam Neon and Julian Dennison, you know, have some, you know, let's go into this a bit.
他会说：‘咱们来即兴一下这段’，他有自己的一套说法，但我可说不来那么到位。
Know, let's Adlib this and this, and he has his way of saying that, obviously, that I'm not going to do justice to.
从十年前在新西兰拍《荒野生存》到现在拍《猴子人》，那部片里有三百六十个精心编排的打斗场面，台词一句都藏不住，正是从那时起，我才真正学会信任无线麦克风。
But, you know, so just being coming from that world of Hunt for the Wilderpeople in New Zealand, you know, ten years ago, which is the anniversary basically last month, I think, or early this month, and to the Monkey Man, which had three sixty choreographed fight scenes with dialogue, you couldn't hide, you know, and that's where I learned to trust my radio mics.
无线麦克风这东西早就有了，说不上有什么新奇的。
And yeah, radio mics have been around for a while, you know, so nothing too new in terms of that.
真正进步的是稳定性跟体积——现在的小到能藏在小孩身上，信号还特别稳，就算离得远，或者躲在吊臂、轨道车、假墙、人堆后面，也不会断信号，尤其是人堆最麻烦，对吧？
But what's new is the stability, the size, they are so small, you can hide them on small children, you know, and the robustness that where the signal is not breaking out, you can be further away, you can be behind a lot of, you know, cranes and dollies and false walls and bodies, which are the worst, right?
它们会吸收无线电波。
Absorbing that RF energy.
所以，这时候一对好的天线就特别关键了。
So you know, so and that's, of course, where a good pair of antennas comes in.
我最喜欢的是Bezzo Sharkies天线。
So I have my favorites, the Bezzo Sharkies.
它们长得像鱼鳍一样，方向性强，单向接收。
So they're like, you know, they're like fins, you know, directional, unidirectional.
没错，这些天线是主动式的，必不可少。
Yes, so they're like essential, they're active.
它们能增强并捕捉信号，效果很明显。
So they kind of help to intensify and pull out, you know, that signal.
所有设备配合起来，才能发挥最佳效果。
So everything works in tandem.
现在的技术太先进了，设备可靠得多，麻烦事也少了很多。
And the tech is so good these days, you can just really trust your gear a lot more and stop having so many headaches.
当然还是会遇到问题，但至少好处理多了，你说是吧？
Although, still have headaches, but you can deal with them a bit easier, you know?
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
没错
Yeah.
你提到人体吸收频率的事。
You mentioned bodies soaking up the frequencies.
我明白，你之前提到打雷，因为现在我们这儿都在下雨。
I get you mentioned the thunder earlier because it's raining for both of us right now.
拍《蝇王》的时候遇到打雷。
Thunder during Lord of the Flies shooting.
当时要怎么避免雷电干扰你们录下的声音呢？
How was it like trying to avoid those frequencies pushing into everything that you were recording?
说来有趣，马克反而特别喜欢。
Well, it's funny, but Mark loved it.
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导演马克·马登对声音特别执着。
Mark Munden, the director, is so passionate about sound.
我觉得他对很多事情都是这样。
And I think he is most things.
他就是那种会深入每个人世界的导演，你知道的，完全沉浸其中。
And and and he's that kind of a director, you know, he just gets into everyone's world.
他希望狼的声音听起来特别真实。
He wants the wolf to be so authentic.
不过对我而言，重点还是声音，他真的特别爱声音。
But anyhow, for me, it was sound, and he loves sound.
所以他想要雷声。
So he wanted the thunder.
我们片场还放了一个大型的JBL音箱，有时候他会让我在没雷雨的时候播放雷电音效。
And we had also had a speaker, a large JBL speaker on set that sometimes he would ask me to play thunder and lightning when it wasn't.
当然，这些都是在没有对白的时候才做的。
Now that was at times when there was no dialogue, obviously.
更偏向表演，那些男孩在海滩上又跳又闹，尽情释放野性。
Was more performance driven, and the boys may have been dancing and doing their wicked, wild thing on the beach.
但你知道，《蝇王》的故事背景是二战时期，那种感觉就像在帘子的另一边——你能看见，也能想象，地平线之外正爆发着战争。
But, you know, that Lord of the Flies is set in the time of the war, the Second World War where and it's kind of like this the sense of just on the other side of that curtain in between, you know, where you can see and where you can't see on the horizon, there is a war taking place.
那雷声帮助观众几乎跨越了界限，既感受到他们所处的自然世界，也隐约触碰到战争的恐怖。
That thunder really helped to almost cross over into, you know, the bombing world as well as the the natural world they're in.
对。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
你在前期制作阶段就加入了这些艺术层次，不只是在后期才处理。
Adding those artistic layers, not even just in post production, but in pre production, you were able to add to that that artistic layer already.
没错，这正是关键。
I mean, and that's the thing.
最有趣的地方就在于，现场收音在拟音、后期制作和各种修饰工作之间，有着独一无二的地位。
That's the really interesting thing where I guess production sound holds its unique positioning among the Foley, among post production, and and all the cleanup that goes on later.
它就是为了真实捕捉那一刻的声音，就这么简单。
It's there to capture as it is, the voice of the moment, if you like, or as it is.
我们处在一种非常特殊的情况里，你想想在印度拍宝莱坞电影吧，根本不可能。
And and we're in such a special unique situation where, you know, like in in if you imagine doing a Bollywood film in in India, forget it.
那肯定全得靠后期配音，印度实在太吵了。
It's going to be probably ADR, you know, like, there's just India's just too noisy.
对吧？
Right?
那里头乱糟糟的，啥都有。
There's just too much going on there.
而我们恰恰碰上了一个难得的机会，可以直接用现场的环境，每一个声音都在帮孩子们入戏。
And we were in a very unique situation where we could literally use the environment we were in, and every sound was helping the boys perform.
要是把它们分开，反而显得假了。
And to separate that would have been artificial.
所以，这正是我们所处环境的妙处，也是现场收音在这种情况下的独特价值。
So that was the beauty of where we were and the beauty of sound, production sound in that unique position.
是的
Yeah.
太棒了
That is awesome.
确实是个难得的机会
Definitely a rare opportunity.
你们没有强行把所有声音都处理得干干净净，反而充分利用了环境中的自然声响，这让观影体验更加身临其境
Instead of forcing everything to be really clean, you got the chance to lean in to the natural soundscape, which makes it just so just that much more immersive when you're watching it.
然后你就能感受到那种紧张感，心里还琢磨这声音到底从哪儿来的
And then you just, like, you feel that tension, and you're like, I don't know where this is coming from.
这声音是真实环境里自然产生的
It's, like, it's coming from the it's coming from the authentic sound.
还有汉斯·季默的配乐，还有
And maybe the Hans Zimmer score and
对，那个也一样
That too.
还有几件事。
A few other things.
那也是。
Then That too.
对。
Yes.
没错。
Yes.
太吓人了。
Terrifying.
我很感谢这一点。
I appreciate that.
声音确实起着作用。
Sound plays a part.
也许我是
Maybe I'm
作为搞声音的人，我难免有偏见。
biased as a sound person.
我特别喜欢你这种偏见。
Absolutely love your biasedness.
给我多讲讲《猴王》吧。
Tell me more about Monkey Man.
我特别想听听这个，因为你知道，《蝇王》本身就很 gritty，节奏紧凑，动作场面很多，暴力元素也很重。
I'm really excited to hear about that because, you know, you go from Lord of the Flies is also very gritty and very active and very, like, there is a lot of action and there's a lot of violence.
但《猴王》在这方面还要更夸张得多。
But Monkey Man is, like, that much more so.
还有那些成年人的打斗场面，简直疯狂到不行。
And adults and, you know, all all these fight scenes are absolutely insane.
拍那些场面是什么感觉？
What was that like?
对啊。
Yeah.
简直太疯狂了。
It was insane.
最让我印象深刻的场景是德夫·帕特尔——他既是演员又是导演——在一座寺庙里独处、寻找自我的那段。当时一位印度塔布拉鼓大师正在用手指弹奏一段极其复杂的节奏，声音美得让人屏息。
My most memorable scene that kind of, like, captures that moment is where Dev Dev Patel, actor director, he is in kind of like the temple where he retreats to to find himself, you know, and there's this incredible scene where the tab tabla, you know, the Indian tabla master is playing this intricate pattern with his fingers, it just sounds so amazing.
而我当时正在给这段鼓声录音的同时，德夫就在旁边拼命猛击一个拳击沙袋。
And so I'm micing this up at the same time as Dev is smashing the living daylights out of a boxing bag nearby.
与此同时，周围一群女士正看着他，为他加油呐喊，每当他脱掉上衣，她们就大声叫好。
At the same time, the ladies who are watching him and egging him on and cheering for him and, you know, calling out comments when he takes his shirt off.
于是，这三个完全不同的声音世界就这么撞在了一起。
And so you've got these three distinct sound worlds colliding.
对我来说，当时真的就是……
So for me, it was just yeah.
完全被震撼到了。
Really just been in awe.
那个片场简直太棒了。
And the set was incredible.
美术部门，还有美术指导，他们搭的布景实在太棒了。
They the the art department, they they built such an incredible set, the the production designer.
我觉得，没错，所有这些经历都在为我目前参与的最新制作做准备。
So I think, yeah, it's just all of it prepares me for the latest production I'm on.
确实如此。
Yeah.
比如《蝇王》这部片子。
Like, Lord of the Flies.
对。
Yeah.
所有经验都会相互影响，从前一个项目中学到的东西，自然就用到下一个项目里了。
They all they all bleed into each other, learning learning opportunities from one go into the next.
我之前确实写过一个问题：你在拍那部电影时，有没有哪些经历让你在拍《蝇王》时能更轻松一些？
That was actually one of the questions that I wrote down was, are there any moments from your experience working on that movie that you learned from to make project like Lord of the Flies easier on yourself?
有些东西是能延续下来的。
Things that kinda carried over.
那是完整录音设备逐渐被淘汰的开始。
It was the beginning of the end of the full sound rig.
因为在《荒野猎人》那部片子里，我还用着全套的录音推车，还特意配了个迷彩防水罩。
Because again, on Hunt for the Wilderpeople, had my full sound kart rig and and, you know, I had a nice camouflage waterproof cover for it.
所以下雨天也不用担心。
So it was okay in the in the rain.
但现在的拍摄节奏太快了，不是在摄影棚，也不是在郊区这类地方拍，这种设备根本跟不上。
But it was it's just it's just not the right tool for the speed of productions these days that are not filming in a studio or on a location that is suburbia or the so and so.
对我来说，这标志着一个新的转变，让我重新理解了当今录音师需要面对的实际需求。
So it's just for me, it was the beginning of a new sort of fusion, a new understanding of what today's demands were on the production sound mixer.
其实，摄影组早就明白这一点了。
And and actually, the camera department have long known this.
摄影组的灵活性真是没得说。
The camera department are so nimble.
明白了。
Okay.
所以，咱们先说说摄像机这一块儿。
So they, you know, just to dive into the camera world for a for a moment.
他们用的是 Venus 2，我想是第二代的 Venus，索尼的 Venus 摄像机。
You know, they use the Venus two, I think it was the second version of the Venus and Sony Sony Venus camera.
关于摄像机，当然有很多细节我也不懂，你最好去问别人。
And one thing I do know about the camera, obviously, are many details you better go to someone else for.
但我清楚一点，就是镜头部分能拆下来。
One thing I do know is they're able to detach the head.
这简直太厉害了。
And this is incredible.
镜头和手柄之间有一根长长的连接线，TOP 拿着的是手柄部分。
They have this long umbilical cord separating the lens and the hand grip that the TOP is holding.
这根线可有好几米长呢。
And we're talking we're talking meters.
所以摄像机的主机可以安全地放在主摄影助理怀里，而摄影指导手里拿的，虽然还是挺重，但明显小了不少，也轻便多了。
So the brain of the camera can be safely tucked away in the, you know, the key grips arms, and the DOP has this smaller, still heavy, but smaller and lighter, you know, thing to move.
所以摄像部门一直都很重视机动性。
And so long the camera department have long got this vibe of mobility is essential.
一卸下三脚架头，我的机动性就没了。
Release the tripod head and there goes my mobility.
录音部门就不一样了，这点很明显。
The sound department and it's different, obviously.
你知道的，他们要处理的东西多得多。
You know, there's a lot more.
他们的设备配置也完全不同。
It's a different setup.
但录音部门在这方面也得跟上节奏。
But the sound department needs to catch up in that regard.
我觉得这正是我最大的收获：怎样在不丢掉现有所有麦克风、不牺牲任何功能的前提下，做到这么快？除了可能牺牲一点舒适度，我该怎么随时起身就走？
And I feel like that was the key learning for me is how can I be that fast without losing my functionality, without losing all the mics I've got on the cast right now, without compromising anything at all, apart from maybe my comfort, how can I jump up and go, you know?
所以，我想这就是我如今这种状态的起点。
And so I think that was the the the beginnings of of of where I am now.
太棒了。
Very cool.
我们总是太纠结于技术上要做到最好。
We get caught up so much in we want the best technically.
就像你之前说的，你得跟得上当下的艺术节奏。
And like you said before, it's like you gotta be able to keep up with the art of the moment.
对。
Yep.
说得好。
Well said.
没错。
Yeah.
说得好。
Well said.
我想聊聊你。
I wanna talk a little bit about you.
我想问问，你是怎么走上这个职业的？
I wanna ask, how did you find this career?
你是怎么进入这一行的？
How did you fall into this?
你是怎么开始做录音混音工作的？
How did you get into production sound mixing?
我发现每个人和声音结缘的经历都特别不一样，而且特别有意思。
I find everybody's origin story with sound is always very, very different and very entertaining.
我还行。
I okay.
我本来不想提这个，但你既然说到这儿了，那我就说说吧。
I wasn't gonna mention this, but it's kind of like, you've kind of gone there, so why not?
我最早尝试的职业是小学老师。
I suppose my first career I tried was a primary school teacher.
我刚开始考虑职业方向时，觉得这是最理想的工作。
I thought it was the ultimate career when I first thought about training.
我觉得小学老师什么都能做。
I'm like, you know, a primary school teacher can do everything.
能带孩子 outdoors，也能在室内，还能教全套课程。
They can be outdoorsy, they can be indoors, they can study the whole curriculum.
能做的事情多得是，特别酷。
There's so many cool things they can do.
可真去上了岗，接受了培训，第一次进教室，才发现原来整天就是做俯卧撑。
When I got there, and actually trained and hit my first, you know, like like class and stuff, I found it was all just push ups.
不是让我做，是让孩子做。
And not for me, but for the children.
那些孩子太调皮了，我逼着他们做一大堆俯卧撑。
I made them do so many push ups because they were so naughty.
这跟我当初想的完全不是一回事。
Like, this is this just doesn't feel like what I envisaged.
所以我很快就离开了，那段时间还赚了点零花钱，挺不错的，之后就去上了电影学院。
So I I I left pretty soon after, got some pocket money, which was nice from that, you know, and and then went to film school.
那时候我才明白，其实多年前我就该走这条路。
And that's when I felt like I really landed on where I should have been, you know, those years back.
后来我去上了电影学院，叫南太平洋电影学院，在新西兰奥克兰。
So at film school, I tried, this is called South Seas Film School in Auckland, New Zealand.
南太平洋学院由古宾·卡斯和他妻子内里达共同创办，他们俩真是特别了不起的一对。
And South Seas was is headed by Gurbin Cath, who, him and his wife, Nerida, are just incredible couple.
他们长期在新西兰制作儿童电视节目和众多影视作品，办学时就像父母一样关心着每个学生，我特别喜欢在这样一个完全陌生的行业里被这样引导。
They're longtime producers in New Zealand of kids TV and many, many productions, and they just held that school with such a a fatherly, motherly kind of gaze, you know, and I just really loved being brought up in an industry I knew nothing about.
我家里没人搞电影，一个都没有。
I had no one in my family in the film world.
我对摄像、声音、麦克风这些一窍不通，唯一懂的就是弹钢琴。
I knew nothing about cameras or sound or microphones other than I played the piano.
当然，我从小是学音乐的。
I mean, obviously, did have a musical upbringing.
幸亏我妈教了我一些课程，我特别喜欢弹钢琴，还有打鼓。
My mom, thankfully, taught me to some lessons, and I enjoyed piano especially, and drums.
所以，对我来说，电影学校简直是一次彻底的觉醒，我很快就发现，声音才是我的专长。
So, you know, so film school for me was a real awakening, and I quickly learned that sound was my thing.
从刚入学那会儿，这一点就特别明显了。
It was very obvious to me from the the early days there.
这真挺有意思的。
That is that's really funny.
拍《蝇王》的时候，周围全是年轻小伙子，你肯定觉得自己像穿越回了过去吧。
You must have felt like a blast from the past being around all of those younger boys for the set of Lord of the Flies.
终于，我这两方面的训练都派上用场了。
Like, finally, both of my trainings are coming in handy.
确实如此。
That's so true.
我经常在一些制作项目里遇到这种情况，不管是儿童剧，还是像Netflix在新加坡制作的《午夜先生》——那部剧是在印度尼西亚巴淡岛的无限摄影棚拍的。
And often, I've found myself on productions where the be it kids productions, it's another Netflix production produced out of Singapore, Beach House Beach House Pictures called Mister Midnight, which was filmed in Batam, in the Infinite Studios in Batam in Indonesia.
《午夜先生》这本书在东南亚某些地方的受欢迎程度，甚至超过了《哈利·波特》。
And so that's basically that book, Mister Midnight, was more popular than Harry Potter in some parts of Southeast Asia.
所以说，时不时地，像你提到的，我能碰到一些儿童剧的制作，我总是特别喜欢这类工作。
So, you know, I was lucky from time to time, like you say, to come across children's productions, and I I always warmed to it.
每次做这类项目，都让我感觉像回到了家。
It always felt like a homecoming for me.
是的。
Yeah.
这真不错。
That's cool.
我肯定，给小朋友戴麦克风、解释你的工作内容，需要很大的亲和力，跟跟大人沟通一样不容易，但跟你打交道的要是小孩，情况肯定不太一样。
I I I am sure that it takes a lot of charisma to work and explain what you're trying to do when you're attaching these mics and explaining it to child actors, just as much as adults, but I'm sure it is a different scenario for you when you're working with with younger folk.
你说得对。
You're absolutely right.
对。
Yeah.
我同意你的看法。
I agree with you.
我的团队——我提到过阿迪托、森托索和雷扎·费里安托——我们三个人都和那些孩子们，尤其是那些男孩，建立了很深的感情。
And, you know, my my team, I mentioned Addito, Centoso and Reza Ferrianto, where all three of us had such a have such formed such a bond with the kids, you know, the boys.
每天重复地为他们戴麦克风，这种持续的陪伴让他们渐渐信任我们。
And that consistency and day in, day out, miking them up, they grew to trust us.
关键是，他们能完全放松下来，把这当成日常生活中再自然不过的一件事，成为他们一生都难忘的拍摄体验中的一部分。
You know, and that was that's really important where they can just forget about it, it becomes just another beat along the way of their day, of an enjoyable day that they will never forget for the rest of their lives, you know, their experience on set.
我非常清楚他们在这段经历中收获了什么。
I know for sure what they've experienced with
我知道，如果我是他们，身处那样的岛上，能自由奔跑、即兴发挥，我一定不会忘记任何一个瞬间。
I know this that I would not forget a moment of being on an island like that and being able to to jump around and ad lib if I was in their shoes.
对这些男孩来说，有个有趣的事是，他们在岛上依然要上学。
A fun fact for the boys, they had this this they still had school on the island.
所以每天都有正规的课程安排。
So there were there were school school lessons.
当孩子们去拍戏的时候，我们会搭一个帐篷，他们在里面上课。
And when the boys went acting, they would have this tent set up, and the boys would have their lessons.
所以英国那边肯定做了特别安排，真是不可思议。
So it must have been some arrangement with the UK side, but it was amazing.
他们太投入了，全身心扑在上面，真不知道他们是怎么撑下来的。
They were so committed and so full on, and I don't know how they did it.
拍完一场戏，他们肯定累得不行吧？
I'm sure they were exhausted after a scene, you know?
可还得接着学数学，你懂的。
And they still had to study their, whatever, their maths, you know?
如果你在演那种沉浸式表演，我觉得这真的很难。
That would I I feel like that would be difficult if you were trying to be method acting.
你得从几个月甚至几周没上学的状态，立刻切换到刚下课的样子，然后又要演一个孤身一人在岛上的孩子。
You have to go from pretending like you haven't been in school in months or weeks to just getting out of classes, and then you gotta act like a a lone child on an island.
没错。
That's right.
天哪。
Oh, my goodness.
我想接着刚才的话题问问，随着制作节奏越来越快，前期录音领域也在不断变化，你最近有没有注意到其他一些需要学习的难点？对于刚入行的人，你建议他们多关注哪些方面，好在成长过程中打下更扎实的基础？
I wanted to ask, along the same vein of increasing in speed and with the modern changes that preproduction sound is facing, what are some other kind of learning curves that you've been noticing or things that you would encourage people who are just entering the industry now to kinda learn more about and get more of expertise as you learn and as you grow.
对我来说，最重要的经验就是，无论是一个技巧还是一次失误，都能很快转化成新的工作流程，变成今后进步的助力——这样到了第二天或者下一场戏，同样的问题就不会再出现了。
I guess the key learning for me, the key thing to impart and to share is how quickly a lesson or a mistake, if you like, can turn into a new protocol, a new positive for moving forward, so that the next day or the next scene, you know, you can that won't happen again.
有件事我记得特别清楚，代价还挺大的。当时因为要给男孩们戴麦克风，位置得绕在腰上，而他们又是在海里拍戏，有一次场景要求孩子越潜越深。马克·沃尔夫、马克·穆登和核心团队都跟在他身边，安全人员也一直在外围盯着。
And one instance comes into mind, rather an expensive instance, where, you know, because of the way the microphones had to be positioned on the boys, you know, around their waist, when they were filming in the water, in the sea, you know, there was a point where the scene called for the boy to go deeper and deeper and deeper, and the, know, Mark Wolf and Mark Munden and and the key crew were were with him and safety and that were obviously always around the outside too protecting them.
我当时看着心里一紧——糟了，快到极限了，再下去肯定要出问题。
And and there was this point where I'm watching going, uh-oh, like getting dangerously close to that point that we that that's gonna be not going to work, you know, for me.
就在那一瞬间，我耳机里的声音突然断了。
And there was that moment where the sound just cut off from my ears.
毕竟，声音是没法在水里传播的，对吧？
And because, you know, obviously, sound signal does not travel through water, right?
那场戏一结束，我就冲过去一看，果然，设备全被海水泡了。
So that was after that scene, I ran and yep, the system was flooded.
我赶紧把麦克风拆下来，从那以后，我就彻底改了新的操作流程。
So I took the mic off and that was the start of a new protocol for me.
从那以后，所有设备都改用双层防水袋了。
So from then on, it was always double bagged.
每个话筒，你知道的，都是不错的设备，Wizicom MTP 61。
So every mic and you know, they're good mics, Wizzicom MTP 61.
它们本来就没设计成防水的，你知道吧。
They're not designed to be waterproof, you know.
有些限制存在，自然有它的道理。
So it was, you know, limitations are there for a reason, you know.
如果要防水，设备就得又大又笨重，那样可不行。
If it's waterproof, it has to be chunky or bigger, you know, that doesn't work.
那样也藏不住，影响画面。
You know, you can't hide it as well.
所以一开始就得想清楚，到底需要什么。
So you have to decide at the start what need.
于是新的流程就定下来了：双层防水袋。
So the new protocol was double bag.
我们外面用了AquaPack，细小的DPA 6061麦克风芯能从缝隙里穿过去，确保麦克风内部保持干燥。
We had AquaPack on the outside where the thin mic, the DPA 6,061 core can just squeeze through, leaving the mic dry inside.
除此之外，我们还给麦克风和发射器套上了一层干燥的避孕套，多加一层保护。
And on top of that, we had a dry condom, the mic inside of the transmitter inside of dry condom, just to provide that extra level of protection.
所以，从错误中快速调整，总结经验，建立新流程，改变工作方式，这对现场录音师来说真的特别关键。
So I guess that quick pivoting from mistake to new lesson, to new protocol, to new way of working is is really crucial for the onset sound sound mixer.
是的。
Yeah.
水这东西，真能让你栽跟头。
Water, that'll get you.
前几天我在野外录一个挺特别的冰冻现象，咱们加拿大这儿常有这种东西。
I was just out field recording a cool ice phenomenon that we get here in Canada the other day.
我一弯腰，一个电池从录音机上滑下来，直接掉进湖里，从此再也没找着。
And I lean over and one of my batteries dislodges from the mix free and just plop right into the lake, never to be seen again.
彻底没了。
It was gone.
所以我完全能体会到水带来的麻烦。
So I I understand this the pain of of exhibits of water.
这些都是用水换来的教训。
Water lessons learned.
没错。
Yep.
真是毫不留情，对吧？
Merciless, isn't it?
确实如此。
Absolutely.
逼着你迅速长记性。
Makes you learn very quickly.
明白了。
Okay.
我们每期《Field and Foley》都会问嘉宾一个问题：你最早录下的声音是什么？为什么录它？
Well, the question that we ask every single guest on Field and Foley is what is the first sound you ever recorded and why did you record it?
太好了。
Great.
我特别喜欢这个问题。
I love this question.
其实我第一个录的声音，是因为我一直在听你的播客，所以有点提前准备了。
So the first sound because, yeah, I've I've been listening to your to your podcast.
我有做点功课。
I'm a little prepared.
好的。
Okay.
我最早录的声音是在新西兰奥克兰的东南电影学院，就是我之前提到的那所学校。
So the first sound I recorded was at my film school that I mentioned, the South East Film School, Auckland, New Zealand.
我们第一个任务是用调音台，那时候用的是舒尔FP-33。
And the first task we had to do was take the mixer actually, think at that time it was a Shure FP 33.
那会儿声音设备还没流行起来，像302这种还没普及。
It's just before the sound devices really took got on its own with the three zero two.
那时候它就是最受欢迎的三通道混音器。
It was like the go to little three channel mixer.
我拿到它之后戴上耳机，老师让我们去电影学院周围录三种不同的声音，你知道的。
So I got that, had the headphones on, and we had to record, I think, like three different sounds around the the film school area, you know.
于是我录了一些城市里的嘈杂声，车来车往，人声鼎沸之类的。
So I got some, you know, the city the the the the hustle bustle of this and this and this.
但最让我印象深刻的，是旁边一条藏在灌木丛后的小溪流。
But the one that stood out was this little brook, this little running stream along one side that's just tucked away behind some bushes.
当我通过耳机听到那声音时，完全被迷住了。
And when I heard that through my headphones, it was I was spellbound.
其实也没那么特别。
Not so much.
我的意思是，这种声音我们都听过。
I mean, we've all heard.
我的意思是，还有什么声音是我们没听过的呢？
I mean, what haven't we heard before?
以前的东西我们都听过了。
We've heard everything before.
但关键是你用什么角度去听。
But it's the perspective you hear it.
话筒角度稍微一变，声音就能完全不一样。
And it's the incredible, slight difference of the microphone angle can completely change the sound.
我想，就是从那时候起，我彻底被吸引住了。
And I think that was when I was sold.
我当时就意识到，这大概就是我的路，虽然那时还没真正明白。
I knew that this was my path in a way, perhaps without really realizing it at that point.
但我完全被它迷住了。
But I was I was enthralled by it.
还有就是，摆弄那些设备。
And, you know, just manipulating.
我记得刚毕业时做的第一个活儿，是跟另一个电影学院的同学一起，他叫蒂莫西·亨格。
And I remember on a one of my first jobs out of film school was with another film school colleague, and his name is Timothy Hunger.
希望他现在还在做制作人。
I hope he's still producing.
我和他早就失去联系了，但他真是个了不起的制作人。
I've lost all contact with him, but he is an incredible producer.
那种让你特别喜欢的制作人，因为他从不情绪化。
One of those producers you love because he doesn't get emotional.
对他来说，一切都清清楚楚，就是数字而已。
He's just it's just straight, you know, numbers for him.
这样真的很好。
And so it's really nice.
他跟人谈事情的时候，从来都没什么麻烦。
He just, you know, had those conversations without any issues.
总之，我们当时正在拍他的电影，他那时候也兼任导演。
Anyway, so we were filming his film, and he was directing as well at this time.
有一次，有个场景发生在我们附近的一片灌木丛旁，就在城外。
And one scene happened near some bushes near us, you know, outside the city.
我记得当时花了一些时间。
And I remember taking some time.
每天拍完后，我就自己录点东西。
We'd stop filming for the day, and I I was recording.
我想，不如趁机录些音，方便后期剪辑。
I thought, I'll just get some recordings here to help with the edit.
从一开始，我就知道剪辑对拍摄、对现场收音有多重要，可能是因为我学电影出身。
From an early early go, but perhaps because of the film school basis, I knew how important the edit was to to production, to to onset location sound.
所以我一直把这点记在心里。
And so I was always having them in my mind.
对我来说，这简直像一种小超能力。
And I think that was for me, that's almost like a little superpower.
这种协作意识已经深入骨髓了。
Just that that collaboration is hardwired in.
但这次情况有点好笑又尴尬，我来回走了大概五十米，举着麦克风绕着小溪走，周围有鸟叫，我走得特别轻，生怕脚步声被录进去。
And but in this case, it's slightly funny and embarrassing because I went up back and forth, like, you know, maybe 50 meters, holding the mic around this this sort of like stream and the birds and and walking really quietly, creeping so that my footsteps weren't in the recording.
我当时就想，等剪辑师听到这个，肯定得惊艳。
And I'm thinking, oh, wait till the editor hears this.
树梢的沙沙声、水流的哗啦声，还有那边的动静，全都连在一起，听起来太棒了。
It just sounds so cool with the movement from the trees to the water to this, this, to that.
大概一小时后，我录了几遍，就发过去了。
And then I'm like, okay, after maybe an hour, know, I did a few takes, send them on.
可后来我突然意识到，这根本没用，因为根本没对应的镜头画面。
And then I'm like, thinking to myself, this is completely useless, because there's no camera angle to match.
这完全是白忙活。
This is pointless.
那一刻我才明白，除非是你自己真心热爱的事，否则别随便跑题。
You know, so I think that was the moment it dawned on me, you can't just go off on a tangent, unless it's your own passion.
当然，这话说得没错。
Of course, please, you know.
但如果你想真正帮上剪辑和后期的忙，录的东西必须是固定的全景声、立体声，或者能跟镜头角度对得上的素材才行。
But, you know, if you're really going to be helpful to the edit to post production, it has to be, you know, either a static three sixty or stereo or or something that's going be useful to them that'll match the angle of the camera.
所以，那真的完全没用。
So, yeah, it was like completely useless.
这太棒了。
That's awesome.
这真是个挺有趣的教训。
That's a really funny learning opportunity.
但是
But that
还有那个飞镖和《爱乐之城》。
is And just the dart and la la land.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Yeah.
这太棒了。
That's awesome.
不过，提前考虑到后期制作，这确实是一种超能力。
That is truly a superpower though, having post production in mind.
作为后期人员，当我拿到特别棒的现场录音时，我真想说声谢谢。
I know as somebody in post production, when I get really, really good on location sound, I'm like, thank you.
简直完美无缺。
It's absolutely perfect.
所以，你尽量为后期团队创造便利，帮他们省点力气。
So on that then, you do your best to help the people in post production make their lives easier.
在你介入之前，有哪些事情能让你的工作更顺利？
What is something that happens before you come in that makes your life easier?
好问题。
Great question.
如果没法去实地考察，我至少想看看拍摄地点的照片，了解下环境。
I like to have a if I can't make the recce, the, you know, of the location that's been filmed at, often I am there, but if I don't, I like to see a picture of where I am.
我想知道，我的设备需要多便携才行。
I like to understand how portable do I need to be?
我需要多防水？
How waterproof do I need to be?
明天我得穿洞洞鞋吗？因为那儿水进水出的？
Do I need to wear my Crocs tomorrow because the water that comes and needs to go out?
还是穿运动鞋就行？
Or can I wear sneakers?
就是一些很实际的小事，但我的设备核心设计就是能应对各种突发状况。
You know, a few very practical things, but the core functionality of my system is built to to to maneuver any situation.
现在我只需要提前知道大概要去哪儿就行。
Really, just a little heads up on where we're going is all I need these days.
如果那儿有很多蛇，我得先知道在哪儿。
I'd like to know where I am if there's gonna be a bunch of snakes there.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
That's right.
这个地方经常有好多不同小组的男孩在做各种事情。
And often on this location, often there there are so many different kind of groups of boys doing different things.
有的在为这个场景做准备，有的在为那个场景做准备，但他们分散在不同地方，各有专门的服装和道具团队，还有陪护人员——毕竟十二岁以下的孩子必须有大人陪着。
You know, some are being prepared for this scene, some prepared for this scene, but they're in different locations prepared with different costume and wardrobe personnel and the chaperones who are with the boys, you know, at that age of 12 under, they have to have chaperones.
所以他们有个专门的休息区，可以放松，也能写作业。
So, you know, there's a separate holding area for them to chill and do their homework.
我们音响组三个人——阿迪普、我，还有雷扎——分工合作，一直轮流盯着各处。
So, you know, we had all the three of us, the three of the sound department, know, Adeep, myself, and Reza, we were we were split, you know, and we were constantly in charge.
我们之间都用对讲机保持联系。
We had little walkie talkies between ourselves.
所以，提前了解这些后勤细节真的特别有帮助。
So, yeah, just a few logistical heads up really, really helps.
不过我们通常一到现场，问几个问题，自己转一圈，很快就能摸清楚情况。
But we we usually find that up pretty fast, you know, by asking a few questions and seeing for ourselves once we arrive.
挺好。
Nice.
我还有一个挺有趣的问题。
Another funny question that I had.
我发现，你们肯定也注意到了，看电影和电视剧的时候，因为咱们是搞声音的，所以特别容易看出哪些地方用了对白替换录音。
So I noticed, I'm sure you do as well, things like ADR more in in movies and TV shows when we're watching just because we're sound people, we know what it is and we know what it looks like.
我老公以前根本不知道这玩意儿，直到我指给他看。
So, like, my husband didn't even know what that was until I noticed it.
我跟他解释了一下。
I pointed it out.
我说，你看，这就是对白替换录音。
I was like, oh, this is what ADR is.
哦，原来刚才那段是替换的。
Oh, that was ADR.
现在他一看电影就到处找，全被我盯出来了，电影都没法好好看了。
And he's all of a sudden, now, he notices ADR everywhere, because now I've ruined movie for him.
你们对麦克风摆放位置也会有这种感觉吗？
You notice stuff like that when it comes to mic placement?
你以前在电影里注意过麦克风，或者那种小别针麦克风吗？普通人可能根本没留意，但因为你干这行，现在一看电影或剧集就总能发现。
Have you ever noticed mics or, you know, little love mics in movies before that you that other people might not notice, but just because you work in it, now you notice it in movies and TV shows?
是的。
Yeah.
对我来说，主要是麦克风的摆放位置，还有吊杆麦克风和无线麦克风之间的区别。
I think for me, it's mic placement and, you know, the difference between a boom and the radio.
后期制作里其实有很多出色的工作，比如对白编辑师做的那些精细清理，真的挺厉害的。
And I think there is so much good work that good that goes on in post production, good cleaning work with the dialogue editors and such Mhmm.
很多原本明显的瑕疵，都被慢慢修平了。
That a lot of of any differences are ironed out and smoothed out.
再加上演员的表演、环境音效，还有其他那么多细节，说实话，我以前可能跟你丈夫差不多，只是我不太愿意承认。
And and along with the performances, the believability of the performances and the Foley and so much else that you will I'm I am I must have been a probably a bit more like your husband than I I care to acknowledge.
我经常会完全沉浸在电影里，你知道的。
I I get lost in the movie, you know.
但要是哪里不对劲——比如声音太浑浊，或者场景切换时音效的视角突然不连贯，我就会有点出戏。
But I you know, when things are quite different, when it's a bit too boomy for what it should be, when when scene when sound changes from perspective changes from scene to scene, then I am, you know, slightly pulled out of the of the scene.
是的。
Mhmm.
对。
Yeah.
你有没有看过电影时，心里琢磨过：他们是怎么把麦克风藏在那个人身上的？
Have you ever been watching a movie and you're like, how did they hide the microphone on that person?
是的。
Yeah.
我经常也在想这个问题。
I'm often wondering that actually.
尤其是历史剧，那些服装简直太夸张了，看着是好看，但从收音角度来说，简直是噩梦，对吧？
And and, you know, and and I guess, you know, especially period dramas, we have got these incredibly hideous costumes, incredible to look at, but just in terms of a sound point of your nightmare, right?
那些衣服用料厚重，还直接领口封到脖子，诸如此类的设计。
In terms of the heavy fabrics and they go right up to the neck or, you know, different things like that.
但不管怎样，录音团队肯定提前做足了功课，总会找到合适的解决方案。
But invariably, you know, that production sound mix and team would have done their homework, they would find what works.
可能有个头发麦克风藏在那儿，我们看不到，或者镜头安排得刚好让吊杆能拍到清晰的声音。
And, you know, there may be a hair mic hidden that we don't see or maybe the shot selection was such that the boom could get a nice position.
观影时你看不到的细节太多了，但经过反复尝试和精心布置，大多数问题都能解决，这真的很棒。
So there are so many things you can't see from watching, but, you know, after a bit of trial and error and careful placement, you know, most things can be solved, which is really great.
想想看，背后有这么多事情在运作，真是一环扣一环啊。
It's so neat to think about, hey, there's just so many things that go it's a big snowball effect.
如果每个部门都做到极致，好效果就会一路传递下去，最终呈现出的作品简直太出色了，让人忍不住赞叹。
If every single department does an absolutely fantastic job, then it just goes down the line and it just makes it absolutely fantastic final product to just really, really cool to see.
你说得对。
You're right.
我觉得，这整场访谈里最重要的一点，就是协作的重要性。
And that's probably the most important thing I could mention in this interview perhaps is the importance of collaboration.
这个词我们经常听到。
And it's a word that we hear a lot.
但协作这东西，不是天生就会的。
But it's not something that you're kind of born with, feel like.
这真的是一种技能，得靠实践慢慢学出来，而且是从成就感里获得的。
It's it it really is a skill you learn, and you learn through the satisfaction you get.
比如服装团队，我之前提到过穆尔和托托，他们真的帮了我们很多。
I mean, with with the the costume team, I mentioned Mule and and Toto, you know, they they were so helpful to us.
他们处处都特别配合，想得特别周到。
They were so obliging and thoughtful in every way possible.
哪怕他们自己忙得不可开交，也总会为我们留出时间来琢磨想法。
And so our ideas always had time in their head, even though they were so busy.
他们真的忙得不得了。
I mean, they were super, super busy.
所以我觉得，有时候部门负责人没那么配合，可能并不是不愿意，而是还没体验过跨部门协作的好处。
But so I think that collaboration is something that, you know, sometimes you find heads of department are not giving in quite the way that you hope, and I think they just haven't had that experience yet.
一旦你亲身体验过这种跨部门合作，就再也回不去了——那种感觉实在太有成就感了。
Once you have that experience of inter departmental collaboration, you can't go back because it is the most satisfying feeling.
这大概就是导演的感觉吧，那么多部门齐心协力，共同实现一个愿景。
And it must be how a director feels, you know, on another level, given so many departments working together, you know, to achieve the vision.
因为你平时通常是负责管理的吗？
Because do you do you typically manage?
你去现场的时候，是主要负责录音工作的吗？
Are you kind of the head of sound recording when you're there?
还是说这得看具体项目？
Or it kinda just depends on the project?
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
我通常就是部门主管，他们叫HOD。
I'm I'm normally the the HOD, they call it, the head of department.
是的，这样所有事情都经过我，挺方便的。
Yeah, so that it's just nice to have a simple, you know, it all goes through me, which is nice.
不过我说过，我总是想着剪辑和后期制作的事。比如在马克·马登的情况下，他的直接剪辑师是马蒂亚斯，他会第一时间跟对方沟通，处理最初的素材，把东西先搭起来，好让他能尽快回看。
But like I say, I'm always thinking of the edit of the post And production of in Mark Munden's case, you know, he has Matthias was his, you know, his direct sorry, his editor that he would immediately be in touch with for the initial I'm not quite sure which part, but, know, the initial rushes, etcetera, and putting things down so he could watch them back soon.
那时候，我觉得Matthias是英国人，但住在毛里求斯，一个位于非洲和新加坡之间的岛上，挺有意思的。
And at that moment, Matthias, I believe, he's from The UK, but he was living on Mauritius, he was on an island, which is funny in between, you know, Africa and Singapore, somewhere in the middle.
所以，早点跟那些接收你工作成果的人保持联系特别重要，尤其是导演特意提醒你要跟这个人保持沟通的时候。
So, you know, having those that contact early on with those with someone who is on the receiving end of your work is critical, especially someone the director says, please keep in touch with this person.
有时候，Matthias会说，谢谢你们这个，做得真不错。
And from time to time, Matthijs would be, you know, this is, thanks for this, and this is great.
还有，请在做到那个环节的时候多留意一下这个细节。
And, you know, please be mindful of this when you get to that location.
这样真的特别好。
So, it's just it's just really nice.
就是那种合作顺畅带来的满足感。
It's just that joy of of of their working together.
简直太棒了。
Absolutely fantastic.
最后想问一下，这期节目结束前，有什么特别想推荐或感谢的人吗？
Just to wrap up the episode, do you have anything that you would like to shout out?
我想特别感谢马克·芒登。
I would love to shout out to Mark Munden.
这部剧的奖项季里，他完全配得上最顶尖的荣誉。
He deserves the very best in the awards season for this show.
他倾注了全部心血，他的热情真的极具感染力。
He put so much into it, and his his passion was definitely infectious.
我要感谢并点名我的音效团队——来自印度尼西亚的雷扎·塔里安托和阿迪托·桑托索。
I want to thank and shout out to my sound team, Reza Tharianto, Adityo Santoso from Indonesia.
他们为了我愿意赴汤蹈火，而我也始终和他们并肩同行。
These guys would go to the end of the earth and back for me and I with them.
还有服装组，以及首席服装助理托托。
And also the costume department, and Toto, key costume standby.
还有公关负责人杰克逊·维克里。
And also publicist, Jackson Vickery.
太棒了。
Awesome.
非常感谢你做客《Field and Foley》，Ande。
Well, thank you so much for being on Field and Foley, Ande.
和你聊天真是特别愉快。
It was an absolute pleasure.
能和你们的Faith交流也是一大乐事。
A delight to talk with your Faith.
想找更多关于音频的播客来听吗？
Looking for more audio related podcasts to listen to?
我们是音频播客联盟的一员，精选了最棒的一批声音类播客。
We're part of the audio podcast alliance, featuring a handpicked selection of the very best podcasts about sound.
别忘了去audiopodcast.org收听我们圈子里朋友们的最新节目。
Be sure to hear the latest episodes from our friends in the community at audiopodcast.org.
如果你喜欢这期节目，欢迎在patreon.com/fieldandfoley或kofi.com/fieldandfoley支持我们，你可以提前收听无损格式的节目，还能给嘉宾提问题。
And if you've enjoyed this episode, please consider supporting on patreon.com/fieldandfoley or kofi.com/fieldandfoley, where you gain early access to episodes in lossless format and can submit questions for our guests.
感谢收听。
Thank you for listening.
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