2025年十大榜单

这条线索也是。

That lineage too.

但让我最惊讶的是，《伴侣》这部影片由德鲁·汉考克编剧并执导，我完全不认识这个人。

But what I was most surprised about Companion, Drew Hancock wrote and directed this film, wasn't familiar with this guy at all.

查看他的履历，他曾为《弗雷德》这部尼克儿童频道的剧集写过剧本，还有《弗雷德三部曲》和《弗雷德营地》。

Looking at his credits, he has written for Fred, the show, that Nickelodeon show, and Fred three, Camp Fred.

像这样的履历，根本不会让人觉得他会执导今年最好的电影之一，但他确实做到了。

Like, not a lot of credits that would make you think this guy's gonna direct one of the best movies of the year, but he actually did.

这剧本简直紧凑得不可思议。

It's just like a it's incredibly tight script.

索菲·撒切尔饰演这个逐渐觉醒的机器人角色，她意识到自己没有自主权，随后明白自己本可以拥有，并开始思考该如何应对，最终却陷入了一场噩梦般的恐怖境地。

A great performance from Sophie Thatcher playing this robotic person who's who's coming alive, realizing that she does not have agency, realizing that she could, and figuring out what to do with that and ending up trapped in a horror movie in so many ways.

杰克·奎德真正确立了自己明星的地位。

Jack Quaid really asserting himself as a star.

我觉得这个家伙，尼波宝宝，我们是不是早就该放下‘尼波宝宝’这个话题了？

Like, I think this guy, Nepo Baby, I'm so are we all past the Nepo Baby discourse?

我们能不能就单纯地欣赏一个人本身以及他们带来的东西？当然，他是丹尼斯·韦德和梅格·瑞恩的儿子，

Can we just, like, enjoy people for who they are and what they're bringing to the Obviously, this the son of Dennis Wade and Meg Ryan,

但有些Nepo Babies，他们是制片人之类的子女。

but Like, there's Nepo Babies who, like, the are children of producers or something.

就是说，你只是认识一些人，但他天生就拥有那种像10个人叠加在一起的遗传魅力，

It's like, oh, you just know people, but he has, like, the genetic charisma that, like, of, like, 10

我不觉得大卫·埃利斯，

don't think David Ellis,

不是所有的

not all

我会这么认为。

I would.

我觉得我们短期内是摆脱不了Nepo Babies这个话题了，朋友。

I don't think we're getting over nepo babies anytime soon, my friend.

但我

But I

不，我不，我们

don't I don't We

我们不能因此责怪杰克·韦德。

can't hold it against Jack Wade.

他身上似乎有梅格·瑞恩的影子。

It seems like he's played in Meg Ryan in him.

我觉得他正在发展自己的风格。

I see his own he's developing his own thing.

这就像一条汤姆·汉克斯式的但更黑暗的路线，或者他正在描绘的这种弧线。

It's like a Tom Hanksian but dark line that he that or this this arc that he's charting.

他还有另一部电影。

He had another movie.

那部他不断被人打脸的电影叫什么来着？

What was that movie where he was he kept getting punched in the face.

他怎么打都打不坏。

He couldn't get hurt.

诺亚·凯恩。

Noah Kane.

你知道的

You know

我说的是这个吧？

what I'm talking about?

诺亚·凯恩。

Noah Kane.

那不是

That's not

不在我的前十名里。

on my top 10.

今年吗？

This year, didn't it?

那是我上一次

Was that last I

我相信这部电影是今年上映的，结果惨败了。

believe that came out this year and and kinda bombed.

但这部才是他的作品。

But this is his this is the movie.

他扮演了最令人作呕的男性形象，而我列表里的许多电影都在探讨 masculinity 和这些男性原型——这些其实不是电影创造的，而是现实生活中逐渐发展出来的，它们直面这种可怜巴巴的角色，他可能自认为是个好人，觉得他所使用的科技没问题，因为他很聪明。

Like, he is playing the most disgusting version of man, and so many of the movies on my list I think are dealing with kind of masculinity and these male archetypes that unfortunately real life has been developing for us, not the movies, and kind of confronting this sad sack persona who probably thinks he's a good person and probably thinks that, like, the technology he's wielding is okay because he's smart about it.

但他根本不是。

And he's so not.

这根本不是一部说教式的电影。

It's really not a didactic film.

它也不是一部说教意味浓厚的电影。

It's not a preachy movie.

影片中有许多血腥的场面。

There's a lot of gory moments.

还有很多有趣的转折。

There's a lot of fun twists.

正如我所说，这些预告片根本没有透露这部电影的任何关键信息。

Like I said, like, this the trailers did not let the cat out of the bag on this one.

我完全被这部电影中猫鼠游戏般的对决所打动。

I was just completely fulfilled by the cat and mouse game that this movie companion turns out to be.

这电影简直酷到极点。

It's just slick as hell.

而且，它的画面也美得惊人。

Like, it looks great too.

说实话，我没想到这部电影会进入我的年度前十。

I was shocked that this is on my top 10, quite honestly.

但回想这一年看过的所有电影，只有这部让我久久难忘。

But thinking about all the movies a year, this is the one it's sticking with me.

这两位演员的表现都非常出色。

These are two great performers.

我迫不及待想在未来的多年里继续看到他们出演更多电影。

I can't wait to watch them in so many more movies for years to come.

我真的觉得，尤其是在我们现在缺乏这种明星的时候，杰克·奎德简直是个绝对的明星。

I really think, especially Jack Quaid is just like an absolute star at a time when we do not have that.

我希望他在《男孩们》完结后一切顺利，尽管我非常喜欢这部剧。

And I and I wish him the best when Boys is over, even though I love that show.

我觉得他能做的远不止扮演书呆子 nerd，而他们在《伴侣》中恰恰把这一点发挥得淋漓尽致。

I'm like, he can do so much more than play the dorky nerd, which they kinda put to great effect in Companion.

所以也许这正是他的谢幕之作。

So maybe this is the last this was his swan song.

随着我看了更多今年上映的、风格相似但质量差很多的电影，我越来越欣赏《伴侣》了。

Well, I I appreciate Companion more and more the more times I see other movies that came out this year that do something similar, but just like so much worse.

年底有一部片子，我后来意识到它有点像《女佣》那种以罢工为题材的项目，但有不少局限性。

There was keeper right towards the end of the year, which I realized was like a maid sort of as a strike project and had some limitations on it.

奥斯伯格和他今年的第二部电影

Osberg and second film of

这一年。

the year.

我总觉得我把这个和《潜伏者》搞混了。

I feel like I get it confused with Lurker.

是另一部电影。

Different movie.

但它有一种类似的设定：你一开始觉得这个男人似乎挺正派的，但很快剧情就反转了，这种转变如何影响了女性主角。

But it has a similar sort of you start thinking this guy is like sort of on the up and up and pretty quickly it turns and how that affects the the female lead.

我觉得在《守护者》里这个设定完全没成功，但在《同伴》里我非常满意它的处理方式。

And I think it does like it really doesn't work in Keeper and I was very pleased with how it works in Companion.

所以它出现在这里让我很惊讶，但我认为你为它做了合理的辩护。

So it does surprise me that it's here, but I think you justify it.

去年有人把《异端》列入名单了吗？

Did anyone have Heretic on their list last year?

我突然想到索菲·奥。

I'm realizing Sophie Oh,

是那个索菲·撒切尔演的那部吗？

is that the one that Sophie Thatcher was in?

嗯。

Yeah.

她出演了那部电影。

She's in that.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯，我正想回忆一下哪位穿黄夹克的演员出演了那部。

Well, I I was trying remember which yellow jacket was in that one.

不是。

No.

听起来确实有点类似，像是猫鼠游戏那种表演-heavy的作品，但也许因为我之前觉得《异端》虽然不错，但有其局限性，而这部听起来更强一些。

It sounds all I mean, it's kinda similar, like, cat and mouse, like, performance heavy thing, but maybe because I thought Heretic had its it was good but had its limitations, but it sounds like this is stronger.

我觉得这部强得多。

This is I I find this much stronger.

《异端》是一部非常依赖对话的电影，主题都直接挂在了表面上。

Heretic is a very talky movie and wearing its themes, like, right on its sleeve.

我认为这里关于能动性和所有权的概念虽然显而易见，但却被推向了诸多不同的方向。

And while I think the, like, the the idea here of agency and ownership is is both obvious, like, it's taking it in so many different directions.

我真的很喜欢《吸血鬼生活》里的哈维·吉伦。

I I really like Harvey Guillen from What We Do in the Shadows.

他在这部电影里带来了另一种转折和新的视角，关于谁在和谁约会、谁在使用性爱机器人。

He's in this movie giving this another kind of, like, twist and a new perspective about, like, who's dating who and who has sex robots.

我只是觉得这非常有趣。

Like, I just I I thought it was fascinating.

我觉得整个故事不断推进、不断反转，我完全被震撼了，佐尔坦。

I thought the whole thing kept, like, cranking up and and twisting, and I I was taken by surprise Zoltan.

我我

I I

过得很愉快。

had great time.

看完这部电影后，你会把你的性爱机器人退回去吗？

Are you gonna return your sex robot after this movie?

它真的

Did it

它真的让我觉得我应该这么做，但我还没去实践过。

It really made me think that I I should, but I haven't run around with it.

我想去。

And I want to.

我想去。

I want to.

你知道吗，我今晚看了半部《创：阿瑞斯》。

You know, I watched half of Tron Ares tonight.

听起来有点像《创：阿瑞斯》的剧情。

It sounds a little like the plot of Tron Ares.

我的意思是，继续看下去，看看那个机器人会怎样。

I mean, keep going to see how that robot turns out.

启动你性爱机器人的退回流程。

Attaches the return process for your sex robot.

这非常艰苦。

It's very arduous.

你不能把它带到全食超市。

You can't just take it to Whole Foods.

这是一件很大的亚马逊事情。

It's it's a big Amazon thing.

但他们把我赶出了财产范围。

But they they escorted me off the property.

那么，帕奇，你刚才说这里本来可以放武器，这对我们的听众来说是个好消息，因为凯蒂和我都是在这里放了武器。

Well, Patches, you were saying this is where you could have put weapons, which is good news for our listeners because this is where both Katie and I did put weapons.

是的。

Yeah.

所以扎克·克雷格的武器对我们俩来说都排在第10位。

So Zach Crager's weapons comes in number 10 here for both of us.

凯蒂，你为什么把它放在这里？

Katie, what made you put it?

真狠

Mean

就在你的前十名边缘。

Right at the edge of your top 10.

凯蒂根本不喜欢恐怖片。

Katie doesn't even like horror movies.

我知道。

I know.

我放一部恐怖片真是个大反转。

Me putting a horror movie on is a real is a real twist.

就像往常的Patches前十名一样是个大反转。

As much of a twist as the usual patch's top 10.

但我还是硬着头皮去Elbow Draft House的影院看了这部电影，那是在夏天。

But I sucked it up and went and saw this in the summer in the theater at the Elbow Draft House.

那是一段很棒的时光。

It was a great time.

这部电影一直萦绕在我心头，就像它对其他所有人产生的影响一样。

And it has stuck with me the way that it has for all these other people.

我认为这不仅仅是，我们在节目中也讨论过，那个令人极度不安的设定，甚至比我还预想的更加令人不安。

I think it's not just like, and I think we talked about this on the show, the like incredibly unsettling premise that was even more unsettling than what I knew it would be.

这不仅仅是孩子在夜间失踪——这当然是一种恐惧，但这些孩子的父母还在制造武器，对吧？

That's not just kids disappearing at night, which is obviously one fear, but also these kids parents are spoiling weapons, right?

我们只是提前剧透了。

We're just we're spoilers ahead.

我猜是的。

I assume yes.

好吧。

Okay.

但这个孩子被困在房子里，面对他那近乎自私的父母，还得照顾他们，这让我感到无比恐惧。

But this kid being trapped in the house with his, his parents who are more or less covetous and having to take care of them is incredibly terrifying to me.

但还有像艾米·马迪根的表演，当然，还有朱莉娅·加纳或本尼迪克特·王那种肆意发挥的演出。

But then there's also things like Amy Madigan's performance, obviously, or even like Julia Garner or like Benedict Wong kind of like going all over the place.

然后它逐渐走向一个极其幽默的结局，当然，扎克·克雷格来自《聪明的孩子》，正如我们所熟知并多次讨论的那样，他擅长将幽默与恐怖巧妙地融合在一起。

And then it leads in leading up to a finale that's incredibly funny, which, of course, Zach Crager being from Wise Kids, you know, as we well know and have discussed on this like has that talent with humor and mixing it with horror in that way.

我对此印象深刻。

And I was just so impressed by it.

故事结构的跳跃性、那种通俗小说般的叙事方式，也完全出乎我的意料。

The jumping around the way that the story is shaped, the kind of pulp fiction like structure, I think, also took me completely by surprise.

我认为，除了这部电影在氛围营造上的诸多出色成就外，它的构思还非常巧妙。

And I think it's so clever in addition to all the real tonal accomplishments of this movie.

所以让我想想，嗯，我不确定，也许我本可以因为各种原因来开场。

So let me Yeah, I don't, I don't think I mean, I guess I could have kicked it off for all kinds of things.

我看着我的清单，思考着我本可以选哪些其他影片。

I'm looking at my list and thinking what I could have put on there.

但为了保持平衡，确保为那些让我久久难忘、观影体验极佳的电影留出空间，我觉得我必须把《武器》放进去。

But in terms of just a balance and making sure I made room for the movies that have stuck with me and were just a fantastic experience to see, it felt like I had to put weapons in there.

是天空中有一把大枪的前三名电影之一。

One of the top three movies with a big gun in the sky.

没错。

Gotta Yeah.

得承认这一点。

Gotta admit that.

我忘了那个天空中的大枪。

I forgot about the big gun in the sky.

瞧瞧。

See?

本来要忘了这部电影太酷了。

Was gonna forget the movie's rad.

你忘了天空中的大枪。

You forgot about the big gun in the sky.

那会是我最喜欢的部分

That would be my favorite part of

了这部电影。

the movie.

也不是我的。

Not mine either.

我这里有武器，只是因为这太奇怪了。

I I have weapons here because of just how weird it is.

每当它本可以更常规一点的时候，它却没有。

Like, every time it could have been slightly more conventional, it wasn't.

当我越了解它的制作过程，尤其是看到专门为让人眼睛鼓胀而投入的视觉效果预算时，我就越欣赏它的怪异之处。

And the more I learn about the process sort of of creating it and to, you know, like, the visual effects budget just dedicated to bulging out people's eyes really makes me appreciate how weird it was.

真正让我喜欢的是它的叙事方式，或者说故事展开的方式。

And it is sort of the storytelling aspect or the the way that the story unfolds that really works for me.

这和我把《野蛮人》列为2022年第八部电影的原因一样。

Same reason I had Barbarian as my number eight movie in 2022.

我真的很喜欢这种通过操控故事展开方式来制造不同紧张点的恐怖片。

I really like this sort of horror that plays around with how the story unfolds in order to make different tension points.

我真的很欣赏它。

I I really appreciate it.

我现在能说说我的最差奥斯卡预测吗？

Can I drop my worst Oscar take right now?

因为这可能是说这个的最佳时机了：艾米·马迪根会凭借《最佳化妆》赢得最佳女配角奖。

Because this might be the most optimal time for it, is that Amy Madigan is going to win best supporting actress for best makeup.

哦，我是说

Oh, I said like

不是那种，呃，特别出色的。

not that, like, outstanding.

这部电影

Movie didn't

连化妆奖都没进短名单，这太扯了，因为那个

even shortlisted for makeup, which is so fucked up because the That

真奇怪。

is weird.

因为她会把最佳女主角奖给抢走。

Because she's going to steal that award for best actress.

我完全确定她会赢。

Totally sure she's gonna win it.

不过，谁知道呢？

Well, who knows?

我们可以讨论一下。

We can discuss that.

但我不同意，因为我觉得她的表演太棒了。

But I disagree because I think her performance is fantastic.

但我确实认为化妆应该得到更多认可。

But I do think the makeup deserves more recognition.

这能算我两头都沾光吗？

Can that be my credit both ways?

当然。

Yeah.

太惊人了。

It's incredible.

她戴了假耳朵。

She wore like prosthetic ears.

老妇人的妆容太惊人了。

Old lady makeup is incredible.

是的。

Yeah.

她戴了各种你几乎都看不出来的道具，让自己看起来更疯狂。

She wore it like she wore all kinds of like stuff that you barely even see to make herself look more insane.

不只是那种万圣节假发之类的东西。

Not even just like the, you know, Halloween wig aspect of it.

她在大卫举办的晚宴上发表了精彩的演讲。

She gave a great speech at the dinner hosted by David.

我可以告诉你这一点。

I can tell you that.

她没吃东西。

She didn't eat.

谢谢，大卫。

Thanks, David.

嗯，大卫的前十名选择将是安·李的影片，但我们先不谈这部电影。

Well, David's top 10 pick here will be the testament of Ann Lee, but we're going to save talking about that film.

它排在后面。

It's a later.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

因为我会说

Because I will say

在名单上。

on the list.

尤其是今年，我觉得第3到第10名对我来说其实差不多。

This year in particular, I feel like like three through 10 are really interchangeable for me.

而且很多排名都跟我当时从视频中需要什么有关。

And a lot of the ordering has a lot to do with what I needed from a video.

所以我们稍后会谈谈爱丁顿，但这部电影尤其不太合适

And so we'll talk about Eddington later it sounds, but it does not suit especially

你这样真的打乱了我的节奏，大卫。

well You're with really messing with my flow here, David.

抱歉。

Sorry.

这正是我们常做的事。

It's what we do.

一切都在为流畅感做铺垫。

All building up the flow.

是这样的。

Here's the thing.

我还在做什么呢？

What else I'm doing?

已经讲完十部了。

Covered 10.

你我在

You're I'm on

我的倒计时上是十一。

eleven on my on my countdown.

哦。

Oh.

哦。

Oh.

因为是啊。

Because yeah.

因为天啊。

Because oh, god.

该死。

Damn it.

大卫，你是挤出这个的吗？

Did you, like, squeeze this out, Dave?

对不起。

I'm sorry.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

我确实这么做了。

I absolutely did.

我本来打算把第九顺位给你，但我想我现在就是他了。

I was gonna throw to you for your number nine pick, and I guess I am just him now.

大卫，跟我们说说云。

David, tell us about Cloud.

你本来就没在闲聊。

Like, you weren't just talking anyway.

哦。

Oh.

嗯，戴夫，你这个过渡真是巧妙。

Well, Dave, what a what a clever segue you had.

我搞砸了，Cloud 是电影界的埃丁顿之一。

I ruined Cloud Cloud is kind of the Eddington of of film.

你知道的。

You know.

它是今年的埃丁顿作品之一。

It's one of the Eddingtons of this year.

我觉得今年有三部埃丁顿作品，Cloud 就是其中之一。

I think there are three Eddingtons this year, and Cloud is one of them.

另一个肯定会稍后提到。

And the other one will definitely come up later.

但没错，这是一部黑泽清的电影。

But yeah, it's a Kyoshi Kurosawa movie.

这是《治愈》和《脉动》等众多影片的导演，以他独有的方式拍摄的一部动作片。

It's the director of Cure and Pulse and many, many other films making an action movie as only he would think to make one.

它非常像《Eddington》。

It is much like Eddington.

它探讨了现实的筒仓化，以及我们的数字地狱如何削弱了我们对琐碎怨恨和他人的一般情感敏感度，就像在黑泽清那些以社会为主题的心理惊悚片中常见的那样，让人们变得麻木，对自身行为及其后果失去了感知。

It's sort of about the silo ification of reality and the way that our digital hellscape has sort of muted our emotional sensitivity to petty grievances and other human beings in general and sort of create like numbed us to as things tend to do in Kyoshi Kurosawa's sort of socially focused psychological thrillers, numbed people to the way that they interact, the consequences of their actions.

影片讲述了一位数字转售商，他大量收购人们可能想要的东西，然后加价出售，过着这样的生活，并从电影一开始就陷入道德下滑的漩涡，完全被自己的行为所迷惑。

It's about a reseller, a digital reseller, who buys up lots of stuff that people might want and sells them for a high markup and lives like that and is sort of like in a moral downward spiral from the start of the movie and very sort of hypnotized by his own actions.

当他所伤害的几个人在互联网上联合起来，决定找到他并带上大型枪械时，这些行为的后果终于找上了他。

And the consequences of those actions eventually catch up with him when several of the people that he's wronged band together on the Internet, of course, and decide to find him and bring large guns.

从那一刻起，影片缓缓却充满动感地、引人入胜地坠入地狱，几乎是字面意义上的。

And from that point on, it was sort of a slow but kinetic and riveting descent into hell, kind of literally.

这很有趣。

It's fun.

它在自己的方式上确实非常有趣。

It's it's really fun in its way.

它非常像一种冰冷的、空洞的女士。

It's very sort of like sterile Ms.

黑泽清的电影可能往往如此，但我觉得它非常有趣。

Kyoshi Kurosawa movies might tend to be, but I found it very fun.

而且在结尾处，它确实有出人意料的精彩动作场面。

And it does have surprisingly awesome action in its way towards the end.

天啊，它真的、真的，和《埃丁顿》非常相似，让你对人类为自己创造并当前生活其中的这个世界，产生一种深深的绝望感。

Man, it really, really, again, not dissimilar from Eddington, leaves you with just a deep pit of shit with the world that we've created for ourselves and all currently live in.

哇哦。

Wow.

我觉得

I feel like

我真的好想补看这部片子。

you I really wanna catch up with this one.

我没及时看到，感觉很愧疚。

I I I feel bad not seeing it in time.

嗯，我觉得它在Criterion频道上可以点播。

Well, I think it's streaming on Criterion channel.

是的。

Yeah.

是Janus发行的，所以 definitely

Was a Janus release, so it's definitely

一部大制作。

a huge show.

可在Criterion频道观看。

Available on the Criteria channel.

真想听听。

Love to hear it.

云。

Cloud.

去做吧。

Do it.

放到云里。

Put in the cloud.

所以，凯蒂，我看到它的时候你的选择是《我，我》。不知为什么，我完全忘了这部电影今年上映了，但它已经进了我的榜单。

So, Katie, your pick when I saw it was I I, for some reason, completely forgot this movie came out this year and it already made my list.

否则，它很可能也会出现在我的榜单上，因为我确实记得非常享受这部电影，而且它给我留下了深刻印象。

Otherwise, this probably would have been somewhere on my list because I do remember really enjoying it and it being very striking.

而你是唯一一个把《成为珠鸡》放在你榜单第九位的人。

And you're the only person to place on becoming a guinea fowl on your list at number nine.

哦，哦，太好了。

Oh, oh, good.

我很高兴我把它放了上去。

I'm glad I put it on there.

你忘记它的原因是它在二月春季上映，之后几乎被遗忘了，但因为它没有由戈德·赞比亚——他的祖国——提交，我本该知道是谁查了维基百科。

And the reason you forgot is because it got an a twenty four spring release and then more or less forgotten, but because it was not submitted by God Zambia is his home country I should know who pulled up the Wikipedia.

这算是去年的奥斯卡影片。

It was kind of last year Oscar.

我当时是在去年多伦多看到的。

It was well I saw it in Toronto last year.

所以，是的，他们原本希望这部电影能入围最佳国际影片奖。

So yeah, so it was kind of they were hoping it would be able to get into the international feature race.

但当它未能入选后，就只能在春季上映，然后被遗忘了，我觉得这真的很遗憾，因为这是一部非常独特的电影。

Then when it didn't, it kind of got a spring release and and moved on, which I think is a real shame because it's such a singular movie.

导演是荣阿诺·内奥尼，他既是英国人，也是赞比亚人。

The director is Rongano Neoni, who is both English and Zambian.

这部电影讲述了一个家庭故事，讲述一群家人在一位叔叔去世后聚在一起。

And it's kind of a family story about a bunch of family members who get together when an uncle dies.

这是一个热闹非凡的家庭，女人们围在厨房里聊天，孩子们到处跑。

And it's this big raucous family and the women are hanging out in the kitchen and the kids are running around.

但这部电影既设定在赞比亚——一个我从未见过有电影拍摄的国家。

But it's both you know, set in Zambia, a country I had don't think I'd ever seen a film from.

这个家庭藏着秘密，而且以一种非常独特的方式探讨这些秘密。

And this family has secrets and really interesting way of talking about these secrets.

它不仅展现了这个国家及其所在地区的文化背景，也探讨了家庭如何应对创伤以及其中的恶人。

And it's about the way the culture of this country and the way the part of it that they live in is set up, but also how you know, families deal with trauma and the bad people among them.

在故事中间，主角由苏珊·查理蒂饰演，她极具魅力，就像一个普通的现代人，知道一些家庭中发生的不好的事情，却可能从未以各种方式谈论过，正努力应对这一切——我故意说得模糊些，因为我觉得大多数人还没机会看到这部电影。

In the middle of it, you've got this lead character who's played by Susan Charity, who's just so incredibly magnetic, who's kind of just like a modern regular person who knows some of the bad things that have happened in her family and has maybe not talked about it in various ways and kind of navigating all of I guess I'm being deliberately vague about it because I think most people haven't managed to see it.

但这部电影探讨了传统与现代、男性与女性、团结与家庭等种种主题，而片名并非字面意思，但这种隐喻的运用方式我认为非常巧妙。

But the the way that it is about kind of tradition and modernity and men and women and solidarity and family and all these different things and how the the title is not exactly literal but not not literal the way that metaphor comes into play I think is so clever.

影片在不同基调间自如切换，时而幽默，时而悲伤，时而怪诞，时而超现实，却能在一部相对小巧、直白的电影中完美驾驭这一切。

And the way that it just bobs around tones that it can be funny and sad and weird and surreal and kind of manage all of those things within a pretty small, straightforward movie.

我被它深深震撼了。

I was so blown away by it.

去年我在多伦多看过这部电影。

I saw it in Toronto last year.

之后我就再没看过。

I haven't seen it since.

所以我想，也正因如此，我才说得这么含糊。

So I guess I'm being big for that reason too.

含糊其辞的评价。

Vague posting.

让人们去看它。

People to see it.

是的。

Yeah.

关于我一年前看过的这部电影，我发了个含糊的帖子。

Vague posting about this movie I saw a year ago.

这部电影非常好。

It's very good.

非常好的电影。

Very, good movie.

真的很好。

It's really good.

就是，你知道的，看一个来自你并不了解的国家的电影，那种感觉。

It just, you know, the way that seeing a movie from, you know, a country

你并不了解

you don't know

对一个你不太了解的国家，看这部电影就像旅行一样，能让你打开眼界，了解世界的一个全新角落。

that much about can just feel like traveling and like opening you up to an entire part of the world.

这部电影非常适合这一点。

It's a great movie for that.

有趣的是。

Fun fact.

我去过赞比亚。

I have been to Zambia.

哦。

Oh.

你从未

You've never

你看过《 Guinea Fells》吗？

Did you see Guinea Fells?

太多了。

So many.

太多了。

So many.

哦，

Oh,

好的。

okay.

他当时穿着蜜西·艾莉的装扮，是的。

Dressed as Missy Ellie while he was there to Yeah.

就是这样。

There you go.

相关的是。

Relatedly.

晚上开车戴墨镜。

Wearing sunglasses driving at night.

patches，你和我都把K-pop恶魔猎手放在这里了。

Patches, you and I both put k pop demon hunters here.

但你敢相信吗？

But wouldn't you believe it?

它在列表上的位置更高了。

It appears higher up on the list.

哇哦。

Woah.

它在我们的列表上一路飙升。

It's going up up up on our list.

我的意思是，我们可以稍后再谈这个。

I mean, can talk about it later.

我知道，我想说的是，如果不是有机会在电影院观看，我可能不会把它列入我的清单。

Know you've been the one the one thing I would say is that I don't know if I would have put this on my list if I had not had a chance to see it in movie theaters.

而且，正是在纽约的巴黎剧院，和我的家人一起以合唱的方式观看时，那一刻才真正打动了我，当时我三岁的孩子完全被吸引住了。

And it was really the moment watching it with my family at the Paris Theatre in New York, sing along style with my three year old just absolutely riveted.

看着结局，虽然不是金光闪闪，但就是那个最后的时刻，我心想：没错。

And watching the ending, not golden, but like that final And I was yeah.

我当时都流泪了。

And I was tearing up.

我想我几个月前在播客里提到过这部电影，但我觉得这部电影情感充沛，却仍有些未充分展开。

I think I talked about it on the podcast months ago now, but, like, I I think this movie is is is emotional and and and still kind of, like, underdeveloped.

很多东西简直就是随便塞进这部电影里。

What's the like, there's a lot of stuff that's just like, let's throw shit in this movie.

让我们来个巨大的蓝色猫，灵魂猫。

Let's have a big blue cat, spirit cat.

它的名字是

His name is

我们再次是纳拉扬。

We are, again, Narayan.

稍后再谈。

To talk are later.

我当时

I was

说，嗯。

saying, yeah.

我刚才在谈几内亚比绍。

I was talking about Guinea Bong.

或者按理说它应该更受欢迎，这部电影完全可以有一个超级导演，听起来就是这样。

Or popular as it should be, there could be a super head of that movie to this is what it sounds like.

这完全说得通，可惜我没有视频剪辑技能。

That would make perfect sense, and I wish I had the video editing skills.

也许你得接手过去几个月的工作。

Maybe you need to take over the the last several months.

我的结构

My structure

如果

isn't going to work if

我去找那个有一段时间没说话的人，他们会听完我全部的前言，然后我才真正

I go to the person who hasn't talked for a little while, and they get the whole preamble before I actually

丹说，你以前从来没主持过这个播客。

Dan's like you've never hosted this podcast before, though.

我的意思是，我以为，嗯，那份文件本来主要也是给我自己看的。

I mean, I thought I thought that, like We will not just like the document was kinda mostly for me anyway.

但现在我意识到，如果没有这份文件，我会同时失去凯蒂和帕奇。

But now I'm learning that, like, without a document, I lose I lose Katie and Patches as well.

我们完全不知道接下来会发生什么。

We have no idea what's coming next.

我知道。

I know.

这太疯狂了。

It's it's it's insane.

毫无信任。

No trust.

总之，帕奇，该谈谈你的第八件事了。

Anyway, Patches, it's time to talk about your number eight.

你得先开始，因为你没来得及谈第九个。

You're gonna kick us off because you didn't get to talk for number nine supposedly.

但你把一部纪录片放在这里了。

But this is where you've placed a documentary.

所以我们都坐下来吧，让Patches给我们讲讲捕食者的事。

So why don't we all have a seat, and Patches will tell us about predators?

嗯。

Yeah.

还有其他人选了文档吗？

Did anyone else pick a document?

嗯。

Yeah.

我没选它，

I didn't pick it,

但我

but I

我看了。

saw it.

《掠食者》在我前25名榜单上。

Predators is on my top 25.

你看，就是这样。

There you go.

这对我来说是个后选的片子。

This is a late pick for me.

这是那种我儿子在凌晨四点踢我脑袋时看的电影，因为他不知为啥每天晚上都想睡在我们床上。

One of these movies that I watched when my son kicked me in the head at like 4AM and because he wants to sleep in our bed every night for some reason.

所以我不得不起来离开，于是决定现在正是看《掠食者》的好时机。

And so I had to get up and leave and I decided now's a great time to watch Predators.

你就一个人坐在你的

You're just sitting alone in your in

家里。

your house.

脑子有病吧，有人凌晨四点把你吵醒，你居然想：现在正好去看部电影，因为对你来说

Sick in the head that when someone wakes you up at 4AM, you're like, I'm gonna watch a movie now because that for you is

这是一天中很合理的时间。

a reasonable hours of the day.

我不

I don't

我只是觉得

I just I feel like

当你上床睡觉时

when you go to bed

《补丁》里说：哦，凌晨四点。

patches is like, oh, 04:00.

是起床的好时候。

Good time to wake up.

嗯，你在凌晨四点到六点之间看电影，然后从六点睡到七点。

Well, you watch a movie between four and 6AM, and then you sleep from six to 7AM.

好的。

Okay.

我不确定你是否会多睡一个小时。

I I wasn't sure that you would get that extra hour of sleeping.

这是一部大卫·奥泽特的电影。

So this is a film from from David Ozzett.

我想他于2020年执导了《市长》。

I think I he directed Mayor in 2020.

你们看过《市长》吗？

Did y'all see Mhmm.

《市长》？

Mayor?

但我对他的早期作品不太熟悉。

But I wasn't too familiar with his his older work.

他是由MTV制作的。

He is produced by MTV.

它正在Paramount Plus上播出。

It's streaming on Paramount Plus.

它可能已经在那上面播出了。

It may have streamed there.

我甚至不知道它是否在影院上映过，但人们现在就可以观看。

I don't even know if it came out in theaters or not, but people can watch it right now.

它肯定至少有资格入围奥斯卡奖。

It definitely I mean, at least qualified for the Oscars.

在Paramount Plus上。

On Paramount Plus.

天啊，这部电影像连续重拳一样狠狠击垮了我。

Man, this movie fucking wrecked me on, like, successive punches.

你知道，它讲的是抓捕一个掠夺者。

You know, it's about to catch a predator.

所以它显然以一桩极其恶劣的掠夺行为开场。

So it obviously opens with just some heinous act of predatorship.

我们把这种行为叫什么

What do we what do we call when

我想叫企图 predatory 行为吧。

a Attempted predatorship, I guess.

企图 predatory 行为。

Attempted predatorship.

一个叫

A man called

总统式行为。

Presidential behavior.

他选了谁。

Who he choose.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

只是一些非常恶心的东西。

Just something that's really gross.

然而这部电影不断深入，不断揭示整个情境中更令人作呕的部分。

And yet this movie keeps keeps digging and keeps figuring out what's grosser about the entire circumstance.

我想我们之前和凯蒂、戴夫详细讨论过吧？

We talked about it at length, I think, Katie and Dave maybe?

我不确定。

I don't know.

你们当时都看过了，而我那时候还没看，所以如果你想回听那一期，深入了解这个话题，你应该去听。

You guys had all seen this and I hadn't at the time, so if you want to go back and listen to that episode for an in-depth conversation, you should.

但没错，大卫在电影中探讨的是他自己的心结。

But yeah, what David gets into in the film is his own baggage.

他在镜头前说，他本人成了电影的一部分，因为他曾被虐待。

He says on camera, he becomes a bigger part of the movie because he was abused.

过去有人虐待过他，他一直在思考：为什么有人会这么做？

There was someone abused him in the past and he was kind of dealing with like, why would anyone do this?

他相信《捕猎掠食者》的主持人克里斯·汉森也在寻找同样的答案，他也想弄清楚为什么有人会对儿童犯下如此恶劣的罪行，或者像《捕猎掠食者》中许多人的案例那样，试图这么做。

And he believed that Chris Hansen, the host of To Catch Predator, was out for that same answer, that he too wanted to know why anyone would commit these heinous acts against children or attempt to in the case of a lot of people on To Catch Predator.

而在这部电影的过程中，他们发现克里斯·汉森似乎并不关心去理解这些人的动机。

And what they find over the course of this movie is that Chris Hansen doesn't seem that interested in in understanding.

许多从事抓捕掠食者行业的人也不在乎或不想了解这些人的内心。

And a lot of people who have become part of the business of catching predators do not care or want to know about these people.

关于这个话题已经拍过很多部电影了。

And there's been a lot of films made about this topic.

名字我想不起来了，但之前你们讨论掠食者的时候我提到过。

The name's escaping me, but I mentioned it when you guys were talking about predator before.

有一部电影讲的是那些犯下罪行的人住在‘变态公园’里，

There's a there's a film about people who've committed Pervert Park,

我觉得这部电影叫什么？

I believe it's called?

对。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

偏执的等待。

Paranoid wait.

它叫什么？

What is it called?

变态公园。

Pervert Park.

是的。

Yes.

他们住在佛罗里达，必须被隔离起来。

Where they're living in Florida and they have to be kinda sequestered

是的。

Yeah.

因为他们的罪行。

Because of, you know, their their offenses.

嗯，你能住的地方就是你能住的地方。

Well, you get where you can live.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

它决定了你住在哪里。

And it it dictates where you live.

而我最喜欢这部电影的地方，是我喜欢掠食者这一点：理解到这里有一种精神疾病在起作用，或者这些人正遭受着某种问题。

And and what I loved about that film, what I love about predators is is understanding that there's a there's a mental illness at play here or there's there's a problem that these people are suffering from.

在大卫·奥夫塞特自己剪辑的原始素材中，那些内容并不是《捉捕掠食者》特别节目或《今日新闻》片段里的，而是仅仅看着这些人后悔自己身处这种境地。

And they and in the raw footage that David Offset is able to edit together himself, not things that were in the To Catch Predator specials or the the Dateline segments, but, like, just watching these people regret being in this situation.

比如，有人恳求治疗，有人恳求帮助，而抓他们的人却说：去你的。

Like, people begging for therapy, people begging for help, and then the people catching them being like, fuck you.

就像，如果我现在能开枪打死你，我早就这么做了。

Like, we I'd I'd if I could shoot you right now, I would.

但抓住他们的人也是如此。

But it's also the people catching them.

我们在这部电影中看到的那些人，包括克里斯·汉森和他的追随者斯基特·汉森，表面上看似乎是为了某种道德原因，但实际上并非如此。

It was certainly the ones we see in the film, including Chris Hansen and Skeet Hansen, his acolyte are really only ostensibly and not even doing it for any sort of moral reason.

他们这么做是因为。

They're doing it.

嗯，他们认为这是一场娱乐，但他们不会告诉你这一点。

Well, they think it's entertainment, and they and they wouldn't tell you that.

他们希望这能吸引人，因为他们想让人们加入他们的行列。

They they want it to be entertaining because they want people to join them on the ride.

他们确实认为这是一种道德上的善举。

They do think it's a moral good.

我我

I I

我认为他们相信这一点，但这并不是

I think they believe that, but it's not it's

不，你

not, you

你知道，这也是他们说服自己的一种论点，用以激励自己的工作。

know, it's also part of, like, the argument they convince themselves of in order to motivate their their work.

是的。

Yes.

他们谈论观众。

They they talk about audience.

他们谈论人们喜欢这些片段。

They talk about people loving the segments.

在YouTube时代，他们谈论点击量、观看次数和订阅者。

And in the YouTube era, they talk about clicks and and views and and subscribers.

每个人都在获得YouTube订阅奖励，在《捕食者》播出期间，很多人都获得了YouTube订阅奖。

They're everyone's getting their YouTube multiple people get YouTube subscriber awards throughout the the run of of Predators.

这一切都让这个项目变成了一个内容机器，显然，任何在互联网上创作和生活的人对此都能感同身受，以及道德正当性如何蜕变为内容创作者的工作。

It's all all foul in turning this into the content machine, which obviously anyone who creates and works on the internet and exists on the internet can relate to that too, and how the moral good can devolve into content creator work.

或者道德如何被它消解。

Or how morality is flattened by it.

你确实是。

How you're Yes.

像这样，不管是什么事情。

Things like obviously one thing or another.

我的意思是，这就像一头神秘的怪兽

I mean, that's like the mystery beast

类型的故事。

kind of story.

在电影快结束前，有一段关于他与克里斯·汉森进行重大面对面采访之前的章节，他们记录了我有一年没看这部电影了，但如果你能提醒我，那个被错误指控的高中生

There's a chapter of the film towards the end before his big sit down interview with Chris Hansen where they profile I I haven't seen the movie in a year now, but if you could remind me, the the high schooler who was, like, falsely accused

被指控了这件事。

of this.

是的。

Yes.

当时有一个反青少年

There was an anti teen

年长的男朋友。

year old boyfriend.

他试图联系，哦，对了。

Who was trying to connect Oh, yeah.

不。

No.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

是

Was

不是这个意思。

not the idea.

好吧。

Okay.

是的。

Yes.

他决定播出这段内容，但后来又撤回了。

And he decides to go through with airing the segment and then retracts it later.

大卫问他：‘这不会出现在谷歌上吗？’

David asked him, like, well, won't it be on Google?

克里斯·汉森说：‘不会永远都在。’

And Chris Hansen's like, not forever.

对吧？

Right?

这完全是

It's just total

哦，伤害已经造成了，尽管有粗话。

Oh, the damage is done in its profanity.

是的。

Yeah.

整件事完全是一团糟。

It the whole thing is a complete mess.

这非常关乎互联网时代。

It's it's very much about the Internet era.

它关乎各方缺乏同情心、同理心和理解。

It's about a lack of sympathy and empathy and understanding in all directions.

比如，没有人为猎捕儿童的行为辩护，也没有人为《捕食者》节目雇佣的那些诱饵辩护。

Like, there's no defense of preying on young children and the and the the bits of just, like, these decoys that To Catch a Predator hired.

这太恶劣了，那些出演《捕食者》的年轻演员，你根本不会想到去关注他们，但这种视角也同样可怕。

It's it's so foul, and the actors the young like, you would never think to talk to the actors, the young actors who starred in To Catch Bredder, but, like, that perspective is so awful too.

所以，如果你只想找一个我觉得很糟糕的节目

So if you just want an awful sit that I found

完全不是。

completely No.

不是的。

It's not.

不是，我的意思是，这让人不舒服。

It's not I mean, like, it's uncomfortable.

这并不是惩罚。

It's not punishing.

实际上，它非常引人入胜。

It's actually just it's absorbing.

它很迷人，但让人毛骨悚然。

It's fascinating, but it makes your skin crawl.

我的意思是，那

And I mean, that

它非常——我的意思是，我认为这是一部像埃丁顿那样的电影，就像帕奇斯所描述的那样。

It's very I mean, I think it's the kind of movie that I mean, it is kind of an Eddington in its way, the way Patches is describing it.

但我

But I

我觉得我清单上的所有电影，现在都开始显得如此了

do think it is All of movies on my list, I think, are are starting to seem that way

回过头来看的话。

in retrospect.

它是对我们互联网上那种对话和讨论的反面与解药，而这种对话确实是真实的。

Of and the antithesis and the antidote to the kind of dialogue and discourse that we have on the Internet, and that it is True.

富有层次感。

Nuanced.

它在道德上并非模棱两可，而是充满道德上的好奇，且非黑即白。

It is morally not ambivalent, but it is morally curious and and not black and white.

它认识到儿童所遭受的巨大伤害，同时，正如巴奇之前提到的，也对那些因精神疾病而产生这种冲动的人抱有必要的同情。

And it, you know, recognizes the great harm done to children, while at the same time, as Batches alluded to earlier, having a requisite degree of sympathy for the people who are afflicted with the mental illness that you know, them to want to do that.

它当然对受害者抱有同情，也对那些处于灰色地带的人，比如高中生，抱有同情。

It has sympathy for the victims, of course, and the people who are in the gray area, like the high schooler.

同时，它对克里斯·汉森的批评也极为严厉。

And it also is quite excruciatingly critical towards Chris Hansen.

而且，是的，这真的非常引人入胜。

And, yeah, it's a really fascinating.

总之，是这样的。

Anyway, this is yeah.

这部影片并没有在克里斯·汉森的流媒体平台True Blue上播出，而是在Paramount Plus上播出。

This is not streaming on True Blue, the Chris Hansen streaming service, but it is streaming on Paramount Plus.

我在观看《掠食者》之前根本不知道它存在，我对True Blue感到很满意。

I'm I did not know it existed before watching Predators, and I felt good about True Blue.

Blue。

Blue.

它甚至没有被奥斯卡纪录片部门列入候选名单。

It also was not even shortlisted by the doc branch of the Oscars.

所以这一点和那些武器构成了某种对比。

So that and the weapons make up.

我对此感到非常愤怒。

I'm really mad about it.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且听起来，我意识到在True Blue上播出的Christy Noem纪录片也没被奥斯卡纪录片部门列入候选名单。

And it sounds like True Blue's Christy Noem documentary that I realized is streaming on True Blue was also not shortlisted for the

有一部关于Christy的纪录片。

There's a Christy doc.

天啊。

Jesus.

好吧。

Okay.

别

Don't

不要真实的人。

want no not real person.

在你的清单上吗？

On your list?

好的。

Okay.

不在。

No.

不在。

No.

不在。

No.

凯蒂是另一位能在第八类中发言的人，因为大卫和我的电影在清单上排名更高。

Katie is the other person that gets to speak here in the number eight category because David and I have films that appear higher up the list.

所以，凯蒂，跟我们说说老朋友乔什·奥康纳这次饰演的主角智囊吧。

So, Katie, tell us about good old Josh O'Connor, this time as a titular mastermind.

我今年选了乔什·奥康纳的一部作品，就是《智囊》。

I picked one Josh O'Connor for the year, and it was the mastermind.

大卫，我有点惊讶你没怎么参与讨论，因为我觉得正是你让我决定去看这部《主谋》的。

And David, I'm kind of surprised you're not getting into it because you are the person who I think has convinced me to sit

《主谋》也在我的前25名之内。

with The this mastermind is on my top 25 as well.

我们在纽约一起看了这部电影，那真是一次愉快的体验。

We saw it together in New York, which was a delight.

我是个凯莉·雷查德的铁杆粉丝。

And I'm a I'm a Kelly Reichard diehard.

她的每一部电影，我都能深深投入其中。

There's really never been a movie of hers that I didn't engage with very deeply.

这部片子在理论上比她以往的作品情节更丰富一些。

And this one is, in theory, a little bit plottier than what you would usually get.

你看到乔什·奥康纳饰演一位住在波士顿小镇的业余艺术品窃贼，他决定对当地艺术博物馆实施抢劫，结果以一种有趣且出人意料的方式失败了，而且充满了典型的凯莉·雷查德风格——节奏缓慢，动作并非传统意义上的动作，人类是脆弱的，也常常无法很好地向他人解释自己。

You've got Josh O'Connor as this kind of amateur art thief living in this small town in Boston, who decides to execute a heist at the local art museum and it goes wrong in interesting and not predictable ways and in some very Kelly record ways where things proceed slowly and the action is not really action and you know, human beings are fallible and don't always explain themselves very well to you.

你花了很多时间跟随乔什·奥康纳，看他在这部电影里频繁地抛弃家人，甚至比在《一战》中还要少些铺垫，你敢信吗？

And you're kind of after that spending all this time with Joshua Connor as he ditches his family a lot of time kind of kind of weirdly in this movie, like, with even less ado than in one battle after another, if you can believe that.