杨鲁奥：从密歇根到男子花剑青年世界冠军之路

大家好，欢迎收听《First of 15》——美国击剑播客，我们将为您讲述这项运动背后的一些人物故事。

Hello, and welcome to First of 15, The USA fencing podcast where we celebrate some of the people behind the sport.

今天，我们非常特别的嘉宾是杨鲁奥，他是美国队最耀眼的年轻新星之一，也是新晋的2025年青年男子花剑世界冠军。

Today, our very special guest is Luau Yang, who is one of Team USA's brightest young stars and the newly crowned twenty twenty five cadet mens foil world champion.

这个赛季，他取得了许多令人印象深刻的国际成绩，还在上高中期间就为美国击剑创造了历史，这简直不可思议。

So this season, he's been racking up some really impressive international results and made a bit of history for USA Fencing all while still in high school, which is crazy.

在本期节目中，我们将聊聊他最近的比赛、他的击剑历程、在密歇根家乡俱乐部训练的感受，以及未来的一切展望。

And in this episode, we're gonna chat about some of his recent competitions, his journey in fencing, what it's like training at his home club in Michigan, and everything else on the horizon.

嘿，鲁奥。

So, hey, Luau.

欢迎来到我们的播客。

Welcome to the podcast.

嗨，布莱恩。

Hi, Brian.

谢谢你的邀请。

Thank you for having me.

嗯。

Yeah.

那么，我们从无锡开始吧。

So, I mean, let's start in Wuxi.

我很幸运能在那里观看你比赛，并为你在无锡举行的青年世锦赛上赢得金牌加油助威。

I was lucky enough to be there watching you and cheering you on with your gold medal in the cadet world championships in Wuxi, China.

你实际上是自2021年以来首位获得青年男子花剑世界冠军的美国选手，之前已经有一段时间没有美国选手拿到这个头衔了。

You were actually the first US cadet men's foil world champion since 2021, so it'd been a little while since our last one.

当你站在领奖台上拿到金牌时，那一刻你有没有意识到自己已经成为世界冠军了？

So when you were up there and got the gold medal, like, did it sink in at that point that you were a world champion?

当时你心里在想什么？

What was going through your head?

没有。

No.

绝对没有。

Definitely not.

我当时沉浸在比赛中，但并没有意识到自己赢了。

I was in the moment, but I didn't realize I won.

说实话，那真是一种超现实的体验——看到观众、眼前的舞台，然后被人颁了一枚奖牌。

It was a really surreal experience, to be honest, just seeing the crowd, the stage in front of me, and just being handed a medal.

那天早上，我绝对没想到自己会赢得世锦赛冠军。

And then in the morning that day, I definitely wouldn't have expected me to win worlds.

但最终我坚持下来，拿到了金牌，事后感觉非常棒。

But in the end, I pushed through and I got the gold and it felt really amazing after.

是的，我肯定能理解。

Yeah, I'm sure.

而且，你现在站在那里。

And I mean, so you're standing up there.

你有想象过那个时刻吗？

Like, had you pictured that moment?

你甚至敢想象过那样的场景吗？

Had you even allowed yourself to picture?

因为你以前也站上过领奖台的最高处，只是没在世界锦标赛上。

Like, because you've been at the top of metal stands before, just not at a world championship.

所以你有没有想过，如果我在体育的最高水平上做到这一点，会是什么感觉？

So have you ever said, like, I wonder what this would feel like if I was doing it at, like, the highest level of the sport?

你有没有允许自己去想象过那种场景？

Like, had you ever allowed yourself to think about that?

有。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

我觉得上个赛季，去年的世界锦标赛时，我更多地想过这件事。

I feel like I thought about it more last season, last year's World Championships.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，显然去年我没有干预。

And, obviously, I didn't meddle last year.

所以我觉得今年，我确实想得更少了。

So I think this year, definitely thought less about it.

我确实想过一两次，就是在训练和备战世锦赛的时候。

I definitely thought about it maybe once or twice, like, when I was training and preparing for World Championships.

但我并没有真的让自己想，哦，我会赢。

But I didn't really let myself think that, oh, I'm gonna win.

对吧？

Right?

我一直在想，我总能变得更好。

I was thinking that I can always be better.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我需要继续努力，无论那天发生什么，都只是一天，只是一个比赛。

So I need to keep working, and I just need to whatever happens on that day, it's one day, it's one event.

所以那天发生什么就发生吧，无论结果如何我都会接受。

So whatever happens that day happens, and I'll accept it either way.

嗯。

Yeah.

你有时会听到一些运动员说，他们其实从那些艰难的失利中学到了更多。

You hear some athletes say that they actually learn more from those tough losses.

你提到去年在青年世锦赛上，你拿了第五名，对吧？

And so you brought up last year at Cadet World, you got fifth, right?

在2024年。

In 2024.

那几乎是离奖牌最近的一次了，对吧？

So that's like as close to the medals as you can get, right?

那有没有改变你的态度，或者给你更多动力，让你想回来拿一枚奖牌？

So did that change your approach or give you extra motivation to say, wanna get back and get a medal?

对你来说，那是什么感觉？

Like, what was that like for you?

嗯。

Yeah.

去年我确实非常失望。

I was definitely very disappointed last year.

我 definitely 认为自己本可以表现得更好，尤其是因为，正如我所说，这只是一个比赛。

I definitely thought I could have fenced better, especially because I mean, as I said, it's only one event.

对吧？

Right?

所以，基本上，你那天发挥如何，就决定了你全年成绩的全部。

So basically, however you perform that day is mean, that's your result for basically the whole year.

对吧？

Right?

所以去年，说实话，我觉得我在小组赛中的表现比今年要好。

So last year honestly, I feel like I fenced better last year in pools than I fenced this year.

我觉得去年我今年赢下了所有比赛。

I think last year, I did win all my bouts this year.

我输了一场。

I dropped one.

但我觉得，去年我第一场对阵的对手，是赛季早期一个非常强的对手。

But I feel like so the first d I fenced last year, it was against, like, a very tough opponent earlier in the season.

我以15比14赢了他。

I beat him, like, fifteen, fourteen.

我们之间的比赛一直都很接近，他是个非常强大的对手。

It's always been very close, and he's a very strong opponent.

说实话，我第一场就遇到他，我真的很惊讶，而且当时确实有点害怕。

And I was honestly, I was pretty surprised that I fenced him my first bout, and I was definitely a little bit scared.

但我觉得赢下那场后，我就开始放松了，我不知道这是否是正确的心态，因为比赛后我心想：‘我行了。’

But I feel like after I won that bout, I kind of started cruising, which I don't know if that was the right mentality or not because after the bout, I kind of thought, oh, I'm good.

但接下来的两场比赛，比分确实比第一场要接近得多。

But my next two bouts were definitely closer than the first one.

在最后一场比赛中，我觉得我只是没有准备好发挥出最佳状态。

And in the last bout, I think I just, I wasn't really ready to perform at my best.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我觉得在八强赛中，我输掉了比赛。

So I just feel like in the bout, lost in the top eight.

我 definitely 没有发挥出全部潜力。

I definitely didn't fence to my full potential.

比赛结束后，我没有哭，但确实感到非常失望。

And after I got off the strip, I didn't cry or anything, but I was definitely pretty disappointed.

我错过了很多得分机会。

I missed a lot of touches.

但是

But

是的。

Yeah.

这真的很艰难，因为假设你参加了一场比赛，结果却不尽如人意。

And it's so tough because let's say you go to a knack and you have a disappointing result.

那么下一场赛事可能一个月或两个月后就来了。

Well, the next knack might be coming in a month or two.

所以你可以反弹，而下一届ROC甚至可能来得更早。

So you can rebound, and the next ROC might even be sooner than that.

对吧？

Right?

比如，去你的俱乐部训练。

Like, or you know, going to your club.

但世界锦标赛，你得等整整一年。

But with world championships, you gotta wait a whole year.

所以，你是怎么确保这成为动力，而不是整整十二个月都沉溺于这次惜败的？

So, like, how did you make sure that that was motivation, but also you weren't just, like, wallowing in that near miss for an entire twelve months?

是的。

Yeah.

但最终，我觉得世锦赛显然不是一切，尤其是对我来说，因为好吧。

Well, in the end, I feel like world championships obviously isn't everything, especially well, to me, right, just because okay.

天啊。

Oh my god.

再说一次，这只是一个比赛。

Once again, it's, like, one tournament.

对吧？

Right?

所以我整个赛季都在为它做准备。

So I have the entire season to build up to it.

所以我不会想着，哦，下一场赛事只剩一个月了，比如一场小比赛，嗯。

So I have instead of thinking about, like, oh, the next tournament's only a month away, like, a knack or something Mhmm.

对于世锦赛，我可以慢慢积累。

For world championships, I can have, like, a slow buildup.

对吧？

Right?

它不必在世锦赛之后立即进行。

It doesn't have to be immediately right after world championships.

我有防守。

I have defense.

我有防守。

I have defense.

我有防守。

I have defense.

是的。

Yeah.

我必须回到我的最高水平。

And I have to get back to my highest level.

相反，我整个赛季都可以参加许多不同的比赛，比如青年世界杯、少年世界杯。

Instead, I have the entire season to offense many different tournaments, junior World Cups, cadet World Cups.

通过这些经历，我觉得它们帮助我提升了表现，最终达到了现在的水平。

And through those experiences, I feel like have helped me perform and end up where I am

今天。

today.

你在国际赛场上度过了一个非常出色的赛季。

And you had a really good season on the international circuit.

对吧？

Right?

在少年级别获得了一些金牌和银牌，我还记得你在青年世锦赛上也拿过一枚银牌。

Some golds and silvers at the cadet level, and I I think a silver at a junior World Cup as well.

对吧？

Right?

那是上个赛季的事了。

That was last season.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我觉得我不确定。

So I felt like I don't know.

这个赛季，我觉得我整个赛季的击剑表现不如以前。

This season, I don't think I fenced as well throughout the season

好的。

Okay.

今年相比去年，我可能从未像前一个赛季在国际赛场上表现得那么好，因为我觉得那个赛季确实让我大开眼界——因为在2022-2023赛季，我大部分时间都受伤了。

This year compared to last year, but I might not ever fenced as well as I fenced internationally in the season before because I think that was, I mean, that was definitely eye opening because, like, basically, so in the 2223 season, right, I was injured throughout most of it.

我只在一次少年世界杯中进入过前八名，而青少年世界杯的表现则非常糟糕。

I made, like, one cadet World Cup top eight maybe, and then the junior World Cup offense, like, it was really bad.

我第一轮淘汰赛就输了。

I lost, like, my first DE.

但当我第一次参加世锦赛时，我觉得那真的让我大开眼界，因为前两次少年世界杯，我分别获得了第二名和第一名，接着在青少年世界杯上又拿了第二名，这太不可思议了，因为前一个赛季，我在青少年世界杯上第一轮就输了。

But the first season I fenced world championships, I felt like that was really eye opening because the first two cadet World Cups offense, I got second and first, and then I got a second at a junior World Cup, which was crazy because the season before, I mean, I lost my first bout in junior World Cup.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我觉得这对我的提升简直太惊人了。

So that was like I feel like that was a crazy jump for me.

上个赛季确实让我稍微回到了现实。

And last season was definitely, like, brought me back to the ground a little bit.

显然，我不可能每次都在青年世锦赛中获得第二名。

Obviously, I'm not gonna make second out of Junior World Cup every time.

那不可能是对的。

That's not like Right.

事情不是这样的，很明显。

Of not how it works, obviously.

对吧？

Right?

你不可能一年突然进步，然后就一直持续上升。

You can't just go up one year and you just keep going up.

对吧？

Right?

任何运动都不是这样的。

That's just not how any sport works.

对吧？

Right?

所以我觉得今年对我来说是成长不错的一年，因为我觉得我打了更多艰难的比赛——毕竟，我第一个赛季参加世锦赛时，其实并没有经历太多起伏。

So I just feel like I feel like this year was a good growing year for me because I think it was filled with lots of more tough bouts because well, I just feel like my first season making Worlds, it was kind of I didn't really have that many ups and downs.

对吧？

Right?

那段时间基本一路向上。

It was pretty much just up.

尤其是，我赛季刚开始的时候。

And especially, like, I started my season.

在夏季全国赛上，我在所有项目中都拿到了奖牌。

Summer nationals, I, like, meddled in all my events.

但去年，我只拿到了一个 junior 16 强和一个 div one 64 强。

But last year, I made one junior sixteen and one div one sixty four.

尤其是在全国赛后，我对自己非常失望。

And I was, especially after nationals, I was really disappointed in myself.

所以，基本上，我觉得这个赛季整体更艰难，因为我觉得可能更多人了解了我的击剑。

So, basically, it's just I think it was a tougher season overall because I feel like probably more people knew about my fencing.

然后，显然，一旦更多人了解你，他们就会针对你制定战术，这确实更难了。

And then, obviously, once more people know, they're gonna game plan for you, and it's definitely harder.

这个赛季，我觉得是个不错的成长年，因为我开局状态相当弱，但慢慢恢复了上来。

This season, I feel like it was a good growth year because I definitely started off the season pretty weak, and I slowly built back up.

然后，对于青年世锦赛，显然。

And then for cadet worlds, obviously.

我觉得运气不错，因为我表现最好、打得最棒的那一场比赛正好是在世锦赛上。

I think it was lucky timing where I think the one tournament I performed and I fenced my best was at Worlds.

所以这有点幸运。

So that was kinda lucky.

嗯，这正是你该表现的时候，也是你最能提升的时候。

Well, that's when you wanna do it, and that's when the best step up.

而且很有趣的是，击剑这项运动，我认为很难评估自己的进步，因为它太依赖于你的对手是谁。

And it's interesting because fencing, it's so difficult, I would imagine, to assess your own growth because it's so dependent on who your opponent is.

你不是在和自己比赛。

You're not just fencing against yourself.

比如在铁人三项中，你可以说：我的游泳速度提高了多少秒，骑车、跑步也是如此。

So in something like triathlon, let's say you can be like, okay, my swimming is getting faster by this many seconds, my biking, my running.

但在击剑中，你怎么说‘我进步了多少’呢？

But in fencing, how do you like to say, I'm getting better by this amount?

因为正如你所说，不能仅仅依赖奖牌数量。

Because it can't just be, like you said, it can't just be solely dependent on the metals.

是的。

Yeah.

说实话，我不知道。

Honestly, I don't know.

对我来说，就是当我参加比赛时，我能感觉到。

For me, it's just I know, like, when I get to the competition.

哦，明白了。

Oh, okay.

在打完第一场比赛后，我能感觉到自己是变好了、变差了，还是表现得不太好。

After the first bout I fence, I feel like I know I've gotten better, I've gotten worse, or I'm not fencing very well.

因为我觉得在训练时，情况肯定不一样。

Because I think when you're fencing at practice, it's definitely different.

这就是为什么，你和队友对打，每天都和同一个队友练习。

It's why I mean, you're fencing your teammate, and you fence your teammate every day.

所以我感觉我对队友会怎么动作心里大概有数。

So I feel like they always I mean, I have a pretty good idea of my teammates are gonna do.

对吧？

Right?

他们应该也对我有同样的了解。

Would have assumed they have the same idea about me.

所以我觉得这肯定不一样，尤其是因为我们都在共同进步，尤其是在进攻能力上。

So I think it's definitely different because especially because we're all growing together, right, in our offensive ability.

因此，我个人觉得，很难判断自己到底有没有进步。

So I feel like, personally, it's pretty hard to determine whether you're getting better or not.

但我觉得一旦到了比赛，哦，糟了。

But I feel like once I get to the competition, oh, no.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得一旦到了比赛，情况就很明显了。

I feel like it's pretty obvious once you get to the competition.

我觉得这很有趣。

I think that's interesting.

那我们稍微回溯一下，谈谈你是怎么开始击剑的。

So let's rewind a little bit to talk about how you got into fencing.

对于不了解你故事的人来说。

For people who don't know your story.

我想你是八年前开始的，对吧？在密歇根州的文艺复兴击剑俱乐部？

I think you started about eight years ago, is that right, at Renaissance Fencing Club in Michigan?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

你是怎么参与进来的？

How did you get involved?

有人邀请你吗？

Did someone invite you?

那背后的故事是怎样的？

What what was the story there?

是的。

Yeah.

这其实是个挺有趣的故事。

So it's kind of a funny story.

通过我的学校，我妈妈给我报了一个夏令营，那时候我还不是个聪明的孩子，根本不知道击剑是什么。

Through my, like, school, right, my mom signing up for a summer camp, I think back then, I wasn't the brightest kid, so I didn't know what fencing was.

所以，就在夏令营开始的前一天，我跟我妈妈说：嘿。

So, like, the day before the camp started, I was telling my mom, like, yo.

你为什么让我夏天去建围栏？

Why do you want me to go in the summer and build fences?

天哪。

Oh, jeez.

根本不知道击剑是什么。

Didn't know what fencing was.

所以我觉得这挺搞笑的。

So I thought that was kinda funny.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

那个夏令营很棒。

That camp was great.

嗯。

Yeah.

那时候大概是阿纳托利·塞内克和马什·塞内克。

It was around, what, Anatoli Senec and Marsh Senec.

嗯。

Yeah.

整个教练团队。

The co whole coaching squad.

对吧？

Right?

而且，是的，我超爱那个夏令营。

And, yeah, I love that camp.

所以，我的意思是，我留下来了。

So, I mean, obviously, I stayed.

所以这个夏令营是给那些从未碰过刀具的人办的。

So this was a camp for people who had never even picked up a blade at an Exactly.

你已经能从阿纳托利和马什那里得到一些指导了。

You're already getting, like, some coaching from Anatoli and Marsh.

这真的很

That's really

很棒。

It was great.

是的，我觉得这是一次非常棒的经历。

Yeah, I felt like it was a really good experience.

显然，确实是。

Obviously, it was.

结果很好。

It worked out.

进展得很顺利。

It worked out well.

好的。

Okay.

那么，如何判断早期的成功呢？

And then how about determining early success?

比如，有没有那么一刻，你觉得自己可能在这方面挺有天赋的？

Like, was there a moment where you were thinking, hey, I might be pretty good at this.

这显然比建木栅栏有趣多了。

It's a lot more fun than building wooden fences, obviously.

我觉得你拿过十四岁的全国冠军吧。

Like, I think you got a y fourteen national title.

对吧？

Right?

但即使在那之前，你怎么知道自己真的有实力去比赛中拿奖牌呢？

But even before that, how did you know I might actually be good enough to go and get some medals at tournaments?

嗯。

Yeah.

基本上，六个月后，我参加了第一次RYC比赛，我记得是18岁和2010年。

So, basically, I think six months in, I fenced my first RYC in, I think, y eight and y '10.

那时候，我不确定。

At that point, I don't know.

那场表现很差，因为我的第一个比赛是Y'8。

That was pretty bad because in my so the first event was y '8.

我输给了一个女孩。

I lost to a girl.

所以那有点令人失望。

So that was kinda disappointing.

这种事难免会发生。

It happens.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后我第一年没参加夏季全国赛，但新赛季的第一场比赛，我想我进入了YTN前八名，还算不错。

And then I didn't fence Summer National my first year, but the first tournament of the new season, I think I made I think it was, like, top eight in YTN, which was it was okay.

对吧？

Right?

这其实没什么了不起的。

It's, like, nothing, like, super impressive.

但在这之后，到了第二年，我觉得我在地区赛中 consistently 进入了前四名。

But after those, once I got to the next year, I think I was pretty consistently making top four in the regionals.

那时我觉得，这还不错。

And at that moment, I thought, that's, like, not bad.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得这挺好的。

I think it's pretty good.

所以我确实觉得自己有机会拿到全国积分，偶尔也许还能在SYC中有所表现。

So I definitely thought I had a decent chance to get, like, national points, and maybe once in a while, maybe I'd meddle in SYC.

但我觉得这主要是从我Y10的第一年开始的。

But I think it mainly started so that was my first year of y 10.

但在我的Y10第二年，三月的NAC比赛中，我觉得我进入了前八名。

But in my second year of y 10 in March NAC, I think I did top eight.

那时我觉得我应该继续留在这项运动中。

And at that moment, I thought I should probably stay in the sport.

嗯。

Yeah.

我觉得我有机会。

I think I had a chance.

那是你的第一枚全国奖牌吗？

That was your first national medal then?

第一枚全国奖牌。

First national medal.

嗯。

Yeah.

这非常特别。

Which is super special.

不过，在那之前，你怎么知道自己已经准备好参加全国比赛了？

And, I mean, so before that, though, how did you know you were ready for a national tournament?

因为如果你想要，有足够的积分就能参加这些全国比赛，这是一回事。

Because it's one thing to have enough points to go to these national tournaments if you want.

我的意思是，虽然你必须要有积分才能参加，但真正决定是否投入金钱和时间去参加，是另一回事。

I mean, the ones that you have to have points for, but it's another to be like, I'm gonna invest the money and time to go.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我住在密歇根州。

So well, I live in Michigan.

对吧？

Right?

所以我属于第二区，但我觉得我们那里有不少SYC选手。

So I'm in Region 2, but I feel like we have a decent amount of SYCs.

而且在我还未变得优秀之前，我们那儿其实就已经有一批不错的青年击剑手了。

And we honestly had a pretty decent group of strong youth fencers, like, before I got good, basically.

看到这些选手在国家级比赛中参赛，然后到我第二年的时候，和他们一起训练，我就觉得自己也能达到同样的水平。

And seeing these guys compete at the national level and then fencing with them well, at least by my second year, I felt like I could compete at the same level as them.

是的。

Yeah.

第一年的时候，我基本上每次都输给他们。

In the first year I mean, in the first year, I lost to them, like, basically every time.

但到了第二年，我有时候输，有时候赢。

But in the second year, I was definitely, like, sometimes lose, sometimes win.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那时候我就觉得我能行，因为如果他们都能成功，那我也可能做到。

So at that point, I thought I could do it because if these guys were succeeding too, then maybe I could do it too.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这很有道理。

I think that makes sense.

能有这样一个人，亲眼看到他们的成就并因此产生信念，真是太好了。

And it's great to have someone who you can, like, see and have that belief because of what they've done.

那你自己最自豪的时刻是什么？

How about your own proudest moments?

除了今年四月的世界锦标赛之外，还有哪些具体的赛事或胜利让你觉得是突破性时刻或感到自豪的？

Like, aside from the world championship this past April, are there some specific tournaments or victories that you kind of consider a breakthrough or a proud moment for you?

我的意思是，这算是比较近的事了，但我觉得我在曼谷获得的银牌对我而言是个重大突破，因为

I mean, this is kinda recent, I guess, but I think my silver in Bangkok, for me, was a big breakthrough because

那是青年世界杯。

That's a junior World Cup.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yeah.

因为那是在连续两周内参加了青少年世界杯，而且比赛在法国举行。

So because that's back to back weeks with one of the cadet World Cups, and it's in France.

比赛在卡布里兹。

It's in Cabriz.

对吧？

Right?

但去年在卡布里兹，我觉得我打得不太好。

But, like, last year in Cabriz, I think I fenced pretty poorly.

我打了30个两分，当时对自己非常失望，尤其是因为这是一项至关重要的比赛，去年的竞争尤其激烈——每年竞争都很强，但我觉得去年争夺少年队名额的竞争比以往任何一年都更激烈。

I made 30 twos, and I was definitely very disappointed with myself, especially because it's such a vital tournament, especially last year because the competition obviously, every year is very strong, but the competition for making cadet team, I feel like last year was stronger than most years.

对吧？

Right?

所以错失了这么多重要的积分，我确实很失望，尽管我当时在积分榜上领先所有人，但竞争太激烈了，你永远无法预料结果。

So missing out on pretty significant points, I mean, I was very disappointed even though, like, yeah, I was leading, like, everybody in points, but it's so competitive that you just never know.

你必须一直保持状态。

You have stay on it.

对吧？

Right?

所以错失那次机会确实让我很失望，我一度情绪很低落。

So just missing on that was kinda disappointing, and I was definitely down for a bit.

所以从卡布里兹出来，我们直接飞往曼谷。

So from Cabri, we flew straight to Bangkok.

那时候，我确实有点低落。

So in those days, I was definitely a little bit down.

对吧？

Right?

因为那是我第二年参加青少年世界杯比赛。

Because that was my second year fencing junior World Cups.

当时我进入了32强，对此我非常自豪，但我不知道怎么说。

And at that point, I made a 32, which is I was very proud of myself for that, but I don't know.

参加青少年世界杯对我来说仍然非常具有心理挑战性。

Fencing junior World Cups was definitely still very mentally challenging for me.

是的。

Yeah.

在曼谷，我非常惊讶自己获得了第二名。

So Bangkok, I was really surprised that I got my second place.

赢得32强晋级16强的比赛后，我特别开心，我觉得那场比赛我喊得最响，因为能进入16强我实在太兴奋了。

Like, I was so happy after winning my tops 32 bout into sixteens that, like I think I screamed the most in that bout where I was just so excited to make a 16 Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

而且，就是把我的积分提上去。

And, like, just get my points up.

但那之后，我想，如果我能赢下这个人，也许我就能赢下下一个。

But then after that, I'm like, if I can beat this guy, maybe I can beat the next guy.

嗯。

Yeah.

然后我想我就一直这样继续下去，最后得了第二名。

And then I guess I just continued it and then, yeah, second place.

那你如何看待积分呢？

So how do you look at points?

你是不是总在不停地想各种可能性，说：嘿。

Like, are you someone who's constantly, like, thinking through the what ifs and saying, hey.

我必须在这次比赛中表现出色，才能确保自己入选世界队，还是你只是在某些节点才关注一下？

I've gotta do this well at this tournament to guarantee myself a spot on the world team, or you kind of just checking in at certain intervals?

你和这个积分榜的关系是怎样的？

Like, what's your relationship with that points list?

我觉得我只是偶尔看一下。

I feel like I just check-in once in a while

好的。

Okay.

因为我觉得我大概知道自己需要做什么。

Because I feel like I think I have, like, a general idea of what I have to do.

比如，每项赛事，我都希望自己尽最大努力。

Like, obviously, every tournament, I want myself to do the best I can.

是的。

Yeah.

但有时候，偶尔如果我没发挥好，我会想，嗯。

But sometimes, like, once in a while, like, if I don't do well, I'm like, yeah.

没关系。

It's okay.

对吧？

Right?

我只是简单地记一下自己需要做什么。

I just have, like, a small mental note of what I need to do.

如果这次没做到，那下次比赛再补上也行。

And if I don't get it there, then maybe I can just get at the next tournament.

对吧？

Right?

所以对我来说，这根本不是什么大事。

So it's, like, to me, it's not, like, a huge deal.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，如果错过了积分，总还有别的比赛可以补回来，尤其是我们参加的比赛这么多。

Where, I mean, if you miss points, there's always somewhere you can make it up, especially with the amount of tournaments we do.

没错。

True.

我觉得作为美国联合会，我们举办的赛事比

I feel like as American Federation, I feel like we do more tournaments than

嗯。

Yeah.

很多其他国家都要多。

A lot of the other countries.

所以每一场赛事的重要性都没那么大，没那么生死攸关。

So that makes each one a little less, like, do or die.

对吧？

Right?

因为没错。

Because Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

挫折。

Setback.

说到挫折，你职业生涯中有没有经历过一段艰难时期，但最终克服并从中学习了？

And speaking of setbacks, like, is there, like, a tough period in your career so far that you've been able to overcome and learn from?

我的意思是，也许是2024年那次第五名的成绩，或者其他什么时刻，让你意识到击剑并不总是充满快乐和胜利。

I mean, maybe it is that fifth place finish in 2024 or something else where you're like, this is a reminder that fencing isn't always, like, happiness and victories.

我觉得大概是2022到2023年的时候我受伤了。

I feel like it was probably more my, like, 2223 when I got hurt.

嗯。

Okay.

因为说实话，赛季初我还以为自己能入选国家队。

Because, honestly, at the beginning of the season, I thought that I could make team.

对。

Yeah.

但后来我接连受了好几次伤。

But then, like, I got injured a few times.

我的意思是，夏季全国赛时我状态很好，但那之后，我扭伤了脚踝，然后膝盖又出问题，接着就一堆事儿。

I mean, summer nationals, I was healthy, but, basically, after that, I got twisted my ankle and then my knee and then blah blah blah.

然后整体来说，情况挺糟糕的。

And then it was, like, it was pretty bad overall.

所以，我基本上缺席了。

So, basically, I skipped.

我觉得这是我很久以来第一次缺席一场大奖赛。

I think that's the first time I've skipped a knack in a very long time.

这可不是缺席一场世界杯。

That's not for a World Cup.

我缺席了一月的大奖赛，只是为了帮助膝盖恢复。

I skipped January knack because just to help my knee recover.

在一个我本以为自己有潜力的赛季里，这对我来说有点令人失望。

It was just kinda disappointing for me in a season where I thought I had the potential.

尤其是在赛季初，我并没有差到让团队无法入选。

Especially in the beginning of the season, I wasn't down that much for the team to make team.

对。

Right.

尤其是受伤之后，我感到非常失望。

Especially after the injury, I was just very disappointed.

而且我的成绩也不理想，因为我跳过了1月的NAC比赛，然后参加了最后两场青年世界杯，只取得了第16名和第32名，这不算太差，但我 definitely觉得如果我健康的话，我肯定能表现得更好。

And also in my result because so I skipped January NAC, and then I fenced the last two cadet world cups, and I made a 16 and a 32, which isn't bad, but also I definitely felt like if I was healthy, I definitely could have done better Yeah.

也就是说，我想这大概是每个人都会这么想的。

Which, I mean, I guess that's what everybody thinks.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Yeah.

这只是一个借口。

It's an excuse.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得真正支撑我度过那段时期的是在青少年奥运会上，我感觉自己的身体状态还不错，而且在青年组比赛中我也经历了非常艰难的赛程，但那是我第一次进入青年组前四名，我认为这让我相信自己真的能做到。

I think what really pulled me through that is at JOs, I felt like I was pretty healthy, and I also felt like I had a pretty hard path in juniors, but that's the first time I've ever made a junior top four, which I think really brought me through to make me think that I could do it.