第288集：卡梅伦·麦克阿瑟，AI保险创始人兼首席执行官

其他人会承担更多工作。

Someone else is going to do more of the work.

他们面前摆着所有这些方案，可以精挑细选未来五到十年想要发展的业务方向。

They're being brought all these programs and they get to pick and choose what do we want our appetite to look like over the next, you know, five, ten years?

比如我可能完全不想碰保安行业。

Maybe I don't want to touch security guards.

所以他们其实也在更高层面上对自己的风险进行更精细化管理。

So it's like they're getting more specific with their risk too, just at a higher abstraction level.

嗯，就像你

Well, it's like you're

我是说，某个承运人可能会说，他们有枪，对吧？

saying, I mean, one carrier might say, they have guns, right?

你疯了吗？

Are you crazy?

不然下一句我就要说，哦，他们有枪。

Or the next one I'll say, oh, they have guns.

好吧。

Okay.

我是说，我们看到这种情况，尤其当我回顾在这个行业的时间长度时，确实能观察到——用你的话说——承运人正朝着那个方向发展的专一性趋势。

I mean, we see that and we've seen that when I just think about the time, the amount of time I've been in the industry, I've definitely seen specificity to use your word, that carriers are trending in that direction.

因此MBA世界、MGU世界自然就衍生出这样的理念：让我们找到一个可以真正做成生意的项目，你懂的，就是

And so the MBA world, the MGU world is a natural outgrowth of let's find a program that we can literally make a business out of, you know, that

没错，而且这样能让客户更满意，因为你能提供更优惠的价格，毕竟他们，你知道的，定位更精准、更直接，更量身定制。

Yeah, and do a better you're making your clients happier too because you can offer them better prices because they're, you know, being more specific, more direct, you know, more custom to them.

所以这确实是双赢的局面。

So it does feel pretty win win all around.

就你而言，我们谈到的所有人和机构都需要一个运营系统。

And as far as you're concerned, all of them, everybody we're talking about needs a system to run it from.

是的。

Yes.

每一个都应该运行AI保险系统，因为实际上这是第二关键点——你是在经营一家保险公司。

Every single all of them should be running on AI insurance because really that's the second piece here is, you know, you're running an insurance company.

是的。

Yes.

你们已经获取了更多高端市场份额，而且由于人工智能的出现，可以继续保持成本不变甚至降低。

You've captured more of this premium dollar, and you can continue to have your costs stay stagnant or go down because of the advent of AI.

这确实为实现这一目标开辟了一些惊人的可能性。

And that has really opened up some spectacular things on enabling this.

过去的情况是，如果你要更换系统，这18个月流程中的部分原因在于数据迁移简直是场噩梦，对吧？

It used to be, you know, if you're coming off a system, part of this eighteen month process is because data migration is a nightmare, right?

每个人都经历过可怕的数据迁移过程。

Everyone has been through a horrible data migration.

这是因为过去操作非常依赖人工，对吧？

And that's because it was very manual, right?

你得手动指定每条数据的归属位置。

You'd have to say like, where does this go?

比如，我们存了个日期字段。

You know, oh, we've held a date.

这是回溯日期吗？

Is it a retro date?

还是保单生效日期？

Is it policy start date?

系统根本无法理解其含义。

And it doesn't know what it means.

而现在你只需导入数据，AI模型就能自动读取所有内容、映射字段关系、做出最优匹配并完成全部数据上传。

And now you can quite literally drop your data in and an AI model will read everything and map everything and make a best guess and upload all the data.

然后你进行审查，不可避免地会出现一些错误，你做一些调整后它会重新上传。

And then you review it and, you know, inevitably some mistakes are made and you make some tweaks and it'll re upload it.

但最坏情况下这个过程现在是以月为单位，而不是以年为单位。

But that process in the worst cases is, you know, now on the scale of a month, right, or a couple months instead of a year or a couple of years.

所以你看到这些原本非常手动的流程通过AI模型实现了数量级的改进。

So you're seeing these orders of magnitude improvements of what were very manual processes enabled by just AI models.

所以AI会帮你整理数据结构吗？

So the AI will structure your data?

是的。

Yeah.

比如生成映射关系。

Like come up with the mapping.

你可以说'嘿，这是所有内容'。

You know, you say, hey, here's everything.

我们通常会直接录下会议过程。

I mean, we'll usually like literally record the meeting, right?

有人会解释他们的数据结构，然后你可以直接把这些输入模型。

Where someone will explain how their data is structured and then you can just pass that into the model.

这里有解释说明，当然不是所有事情都能自动化，仍需要人工参与。

Here's the explanation, you know, and not everything is, there's still some human components, right?

你需要用逻辑解释你希望表单如何关联等等。

You have logic, you need to explain how you want your forms attached and things like that.

但技术确实大大降低了所有这些事情的准入门槛。

But technology has really lowered the barrier of entry on all of these things.

要知道，过去你得把所有表格做成HTML格式并导入这些变量数据，而现在你只需上传Word文档就行了。

You know, you used to have to take all your forms and create them in HTML and pull in this variable data, and now you can just upload them as Word documents.

所以你看，这个过程过去要花六个月时间处理一堆技术问题，而现在你只需上传Word文档就能签发保单。

And so, you know, that right there used to take six months and a bunch of tech facing things, and now you can just upload Word documents and issue a policy.

所以门槛降低了。

So the barrier has dropped.

嘿，李。

Hey, Lee.

你知道我在想什么吗？

You know what I'm thinking about?

不知道。

No.

你在想什么

What are you thinking

美丽的秋季。

The beautiful season of fall.

你知道这意味着什么吗？

And you know what that means?

不知道。

No.

我不知道。

I don't.

不是看红叶，不是感受天气，不是翻出毛衣，而是该订机票去拉斯维加斯参加ITC大会了。

Not the colors, not the weather, not get out your sweaters, but get on a plane and get to Las Vegas for ITC Las Vegas.

ITC拉斯维加斯。

ITC Las Vegas.

活动将于10月14日至16日举行。

It is coming up October 14 through the sixteenth.

多么美好的时光啊。

What a great time.

我和罗布要回去了。

Rob and I are headed back.

已经等不及了。

Can't wait for it.

没有什么比得上拉斯维加斯的秋天。

Nothing like fall in Las Vegas.

再次汇聚所有保险科技极客及相关人士，齐聚同一片巨大屋顶之下。

And once again, annual of all the InsurTech nerds and concerned parties all in one place under one enormous roof.

如果你要来ITC拉斯维加斯，记得在那里找我们。

So if you're going to ITC Las Vegas, look for us there.

记得在那里找我们。

Look for us there.

同时使用下方节目说明中的代码。

Also use the code in the show notes below.

这将为你的注册提供折扣。

That'll get you a discount on your registration.

期待十月份在拉斯维加斯与大家相见。

But we look forward to seeing everybody in Las Vegas in October.

如果见到我们，过来打个招呼吧。

And if you see us, come by and say hi.

秋天见。

See you in the fall.

那么随着AI带来的世界变化速度，这是否会给你的业务带来独特挑战，甚至在竞争层面也是如此？

So with the pace of change in the world because of AI, does that present unique challenges to your business even on a competitive level?

当然。

For sure.

我认为AI做的一件有趣的事是大幅降低了构建的门槛。

I think the interesting thing that AI has done is dramatically lower the barrier on building as well.

所以你必须拥有相当差异化的优势，因为这里要说明的一点是，作为大型运营商，我现在可以比过去更快更便宜地内部构建这个。

So you really have to have a pretty differentiated advantage because some of the case to be made here is, oh, well, I could build this in house much faster and much cheaper than I used to be able to if I'm a big carrier.

对吧？

Right?

我想这就是为什么我们长期以来专注于有机增长，因为保险非常复杂。

And I think some of this is why we built and focused on organic growth for a long time was that insurance is very complicated.

经常有人找我们说，嘿，我想创立一家保险公司。

We get a lot of folks approaching us saying, Hey, I wanna start up an insurance company.

我该怎么做？

What do I do?

对吧？

Right?

因为他们来自技术领域，看到了这个非常明确的商业机会。

Because they're coming from the tech side and they see this really clear business opportunity.

其中有些情况相当有趣，因为你知道，我接触的都是有经验的创始人，他们之前筹集过大量资金。

And some of it is quite funny because they're you know, I get experienced founders that have raised money before, lots of money.

我们就会说，好吧，你得去获取承保能力。

And we're like, well, you're gonna have to go get capacity.

他们就会说，好吧。

And they're like, okay.

很好。

Great.

这需要多长时间？

How long will that take?

三周？

Three weeks?

而你会说，这需要的时间远超过三周，因为你要做的不是融资。

And you're like, it's gonna take a lot longer than three weeks because you're, you know, not raising money.

你是要让别人借给你他们的保单或为你提供再保险，这个过程要慢得多。

You're getting someone to lend you their paper or reinsure you, and that process is significantly slower.

所以虽然你能开发软件，但保险行业关于这些运作机制的制度性知识非常庞杂，掌握起来相当困难。

And so while you can build software, there's a ton of insurance institutional knowledge of how these things work that is quite hard.

对吧？

Right?

要自己构建这样的东西需要七年时间的护城河。

There's a seven year moat on building something like this yourself.

我确实认为——我的强烈感觉是——这个领域即将发生的转变方向，你们肯定已经看到最近涌现了大量做AI的单一功能解决方案。

And I do think that I mean, I feel very strongly that where we're gonna see a shift in the space is you've no doubt seen a ton of point solutions that do AI recently.

对吧？

Right?

有人会说，我们做提交解析的AI，或者做理赔解析的AI，对吧，这些非常局限的基于单点的解决方案。

Where someone will say, we do AI for submission parsing or we do AI for claims parsing, right, these very narrow point based solutions.

坦白说，我认为这些差异化优势的时效正在倒计时。

And candidly, I think that the clock is ticking on those being differentiated.

我觉得现在很多看似神奇的功能，对吧？

I think a lot of these things that feel magical now, right?

比如提交一份文件，解析它，提取所有数据。

Here's a submission, parse it, get all the data out.

要知道，以前你得把文件发到印度去处理，现在几分钟就能搞定。

You know, you used to have to send it over to India to do it, and now you can, you know, do it in minutes.

感觉太颠覆了，你会觉得我们必须做这个。

Feels so groundbreaking that you're like, we have to do this.

就像，我们必须拿下这个产品。

Like, we have to get this product.

但老实说，尽管我们显然有优势——我们做这行更久，但别以为模型进步神速就能让我们在AI单点解决方案上保持优势，比如我们的提交解析更好。

But candidly, I think, you know, even though we obviously have an advantage, we've been doing this for longer, don't think these models are getting so good so fast that our advantage on the AI point solution side, like, you know, our submissions parsing is better.

这优势能比竞争对手多维持十二个月吗？

Is it twelve months better than our competitors?

很可能不行，因为我认为这些模型的性能提升曲线是指数级的。

Probably not because I think the curve of the line here is these models getting twice as good.

所以一旦模型性能翻倍，如果你只是对模型做简单封装，你做的那些差异化工作很快就会被模型自身的快速进步所淹没。

And so once the models get twice as good, if you're just wrapping around the model, the edge differentiated work you did is kind of getting washed away by how quickly the model is getting better.

这说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

所以我觉得完全正确。

So I think Totally.

所有这些，你知道的，AI提交人员、AI起重机操作员，很多这类角色都将成为你们核心系统的基础配置。

All of these, you know, AI submission person, AI cranes person, a lot of these things are just gonna become table stakes in your core systems.

是啊。

Yeah.

我们在采访的公司中看到这种情况，虽然我不会点名，但他们非常明确地定位在理赔环节——用价值链的说法来讲。

We see it in companies that we interview like, I won't mention names or anything, but that they have a very specific place that they work inside of the claims, you know, value chain, if you will.

长远来看，我看不出这种模式有什么竞争优势，对吧？

And I can't see the competitive advantage in that in the long run, right?

现在看起来很酷很棒，但迟早会被其他能走得更远、钻得更深、跑得更快的人或事物取代。

It's super cool now and awesome, but it's just gonna get eaten by somebody else, something else who can, you know, go further, deeper, faster, farther.

或者说如果竞争对手两周就能快速上线，那就形成了这种情况——这正是我们平台战略的价值所在，因为我们认为端到端工作流及其在保险层面的理解，就像你说的，以保险从业者视角真正理解全流程才是差异化优势。毕竟有人说'我们能解析理赔投诉'这种事的门槛实在太低了。

Or just if a competitor can spin up in two weeks, right, then I think you get this case of, you know, it's really why we're the platform plays because we think that the end to end workflow and understanding that at the insurance level, right, like you mentioned, being an insurance guy and really understanding the end to end workflow from an insurance perspective is the differentiator here because someone's saying, Oh, we can parse your complaints that you get on a claim, the barrier to entry to that is so low.

你调用OpenAI接口传个投诉内容过去，它就能解决90%的问题。

You call the OpenAI API and pass it a complaint and it gets you 90% of the way there.

四个月后就能100%搞定。

In four months, it'll get you 100% of the way there.

根据我对保险行业的了解，我们都知道这个行业本质上是风险规避和保守的，对吧？

And I would think knowing the insurance industry, like I do, that it's, we all know that the insurance industry by its nature is risk averse and hesitant, right?

所以能和你这样理解保险全流程的人对话就很有价值。

And so, but to be able to speak to somebody say like yourself, who understands the insurance aspect of the whole thing.

这就是保险流程将如何运作的方式——使用潜在客户所说的语言。

And that how it's going to work for the insurance process in using the language that the potential customer speaks.

这本身就像一种护城河。

That's kind of a moat in and of itself.

我也这么认为。

I think so.

我是说，就像你说的，表面看起来一切顺利，但内部其实总是焦头烂额，对吧？

Mean, there's a, you know, it's like you said, on the outside things seem good and on the inside they're always pulling their hair out, right?

这就像是经营一家成长型企业的本质。

Like that's sort of the nature of running a growing business.

而且我觉得，我们也有过很多这样的经历，对吧？

And I think, you know, we've had a ton of that too, right?

学习如何规模化地做好保险工作流程，其中充满了细微差别和痛苦。

There's so much nuance and pain in learning how to do the insurance workflow well at scale.

这才是真正的难点，而不仅仅是调用这些模型。

That's really the hard part more than just, you know, calling one of these models.

尽管我们在调用这些模型方面确实有优势，因为我们有七年的先发优势，但我认为这种先发优势实际上不如基于知识的护城河重要，当我想到Well时...

And though we do have an advantage in calling these models because we've, you know, got a seven year head start, I think that head start is actually, you know, less of a moat than the knowledge based one as I think about Well,

我们之前讨论过，可能在你的第一集节目里就问过：你们是一家科技公司吗？

we talked earlier that we and we probably asked you on your first episode, are you a technology company?

当时InsurTech最让我们感兴趣的就是这个问题：你们是科技公司吗？

This is something that was very interesting to us about InsurTech back then was are you a technology company?

还是说你们是服务提供商，保险服务提供商？

Or are you a service provider, insurance service provider?

你是什么，对吧？

What are you, right?

几乎所有人都会说我们是一家科技公司。

And almost unanimously, people would say we're a technology company.

所以今天我要问你这个问题。

So I'm gonna ask you that question today.

我觉得你之前给我的回答非常棒。

I thought that your answer that you gave me earlier was terrific.

我绝对认为我们是一家科技公司。

I would definitely consider us a technology company.

这一点从未改变。

So that hasn't changed.

我认为现在的区别在于，我们非常深入地理解保险业务，这完全要归功于我们最初的客户和合作伙伴。

I think the differentiator now is more that, you know, we very deeply understand insurance, and, you know, that's just really all credit to our original customers and partners.

多年来我们一直专注于建设，如今我们运营着100多个项目，确实积累了规模化专业经验。

You know, we've been very focused on building for over the years, and now we run, you know, more than a 100 programs and so have really gotten that expertise at scale.

但毫无疑问，我们对客户的价值在于作为科技公司的定位，在于提供AI保险解决方案——通过工作流软件帮助他们的企业站上AI技术最前沿。

But for sure, our value add to those customers is in being a technology company, Is in being AI insurance, the workflow software for running their companies that brings them to the bleeding edge of AI.

明确地说，我们是OpenAI五级客户，最早使用Cloud Code的团队之一，也是Vertex客户——我们在所有这些模型应用上都处于最前沿，专门设有团队持续优化这些模型，不断提升各项AI差异化能力。

Make no mistake, we are a tier five open AI customer and, you know, we're one of the first folks to use Cloud Code and, you know, or a Vertex customer, you know, like, we're at the bleeding edge of every single one of these models and, you know, have a whole section of our team just devoted to improving the models at, you know, at scale and getting better and better at doing each of these AI differentiators.

我认为另一个方面是

I think one of the other things that

那个

that

你会问起，你知道，这确实把事情说清楚了，嘿。

you would ask about, you know, that that really kind of drives this home is, hey.

你们是保险公司还是科技公司？

Are you an insurance company or a a technology company?

我们有个客户，他们在货运领域处理所有这些数据录入工作。

We have a customer who used they do all this data entry in the trucking space.

他们会拿到一整份清单，上面列明哪些卡车在保单范围内或不在范围内——根据车辆是否经常使用来判定，而且他们每个月都会收到这份清单。

They get, you know, whole list of trucks that are on or off the policy based on being on or off a lot, and they get it every single month.

他们的客户通过歪斜扫描件、手写文件、传真件，还有用笔涂改过的PDF文档来提交资料。

And their customers are sending them sideways, scanned in, handwritten, faxed, you know, PDF documents where they're reporting things scribbled in pen.

这一直是个高度依赖人工的流程。

And that's always been a deeply human process.

对吧？

Right?

他们会把这些资料发到海外处理。

And they would send that overseas.

对吧？

Right?

他们合作的某家公司就是专门安排人工接收这些数据，全部录入电子表格，以便向承运商汇报。

They worked with a company that would just plug a human into receiving all this data, entering it all into a spreadsheet so that they can then report to their carriers.

对吧？

Right?

他们每个月都这么做，为此花费了大量资金。

And they would do that every month, and it was costing them a significant amount of money.

AI保险拥有AI数据导入功能，您可以定期上传Bordero、loserun或任何其他类型一致的数据集。

AI insurance has an AI data import where you can just drop in a Bordero or a loserun or kind of any other set of data on a regular basis that's consistently the same kind of data.

但众所周知，边界行和月度损失会变化，呈现不同形态，人们会输错内容、添加新字段和新列。

But as we all know, a border row and a loss around month to month will change and look different and people mistype things and add new fields and add new columns.

我们会像核保员或理算师那样解读数据，并将所有信息录入平台。

And we'll read that the way an underwriter or an adjuster would and data enter everything into the platform.

尽管他们传送的数据包含横向扫描的PDF文件和各种混乱内容，但所有信息都能录入AI保险系统并生成报告。

And even though the data that they're sending over contains sideways scanned in PDFs and all this crazy mess, everything gets entered into AI insurance and they can do the reporting out of it.

这为他们节省了大量时间和金钱。

And that has saved them a significant amount of hours and money.

其次，我们的准确率更高。

And b, our accuracy is better.

实际上这些模型——我们比他们外包的团队更擅长解读这些横向扫描的手写PDF文件。

So these models are actually you know, we're better at reading these sideways scanned in handwritten PDFs than the folks that they were outsourcing it to.

所以就像...你知道的，Cameron？

And so it's like why, you know, Cameron?

我仍然认为我们的差异化优势在于作为一家科技公司。

I still consider, you know, our differentiated advantage there is being a technology company.

我不会说我们是保险服务公司。

And then I wouldn't say we're an insurance services company.

我们是一家科技公司，但我们对保险有着深刻理解。

We're a technology company, but we understand insurance deeply.

要知道，我们就是AI保险。

You know, we are AI insurance.

我们正在考虑将AI技术应用于保险领域。

We're looking at doing insurance with the AI vertical.

正因我们七年深耕商业卡车保险领域的经验，才能以远超他们自行尝试引入技术或缺乏保险经验者所能达到的效率实现这一目标。

And so seven years of understanding what a commercial trucking policy looks like is why we're able to do that at so much higher of an efficacy than they could do themselves if they tried to bring the technology in or then someone else could do who doesn't have this lengthy insurance experience that we have.

我认为另一个我们不再向人们提出那个问题的原因是，正如你之前所说，如今保险界对技术世界的接受度已大幅提高。

And I think also one of the reasons that we tend not to ask that question of people anymore is that, like you were saying earlier, the insurance world is so much more comfortable with the technology world today.

即便在你从业期间，想必也目睹了显著的转型与变化。

Even in the time you've been in it, I'm sure you've seen a marked transition and change.

是的。

Yeah.

是这样吗？

Is that correct?

哦，

Oh,

确实如此。

spectacularly so.

就在上周，我们进行了一次精彩的通话——过去人们总对技术端避之不及。

I mean, just last week, we had a fantastic call where it used to be that folks wanted nothing to do with the technology side.

对吧？

Right?

那时你们要支付巨额实施费用。

So, you you'd pay these huge implementation fees.

当我说'你们可以自己上传所有表格'时，人们总说'我们不想管这些，交给你们处理就好'。

You know, when I say, oh, you can upload all your forms yourself, people are like, we don't you know, we just wanna give it to you and you figure it out.

我们就像对技术完全不感兴趣一样。

And we're like, we're uninterested in technology.

这只是达到目的的手段。

It's a means to an end.

我们只维持在最低限度，就为了继续做现在做的事，我们不想改变。

We're at the bare minimum to, like, keep doing exactly what we're doing, and we don't want change.

现在每次电话会议，人们第一个问题总是：嘿，

And now we consistently get on calls where the first question people ask is, hey.

你们有哪些AI接口可以让我连接数据层，做些你们平台目前还不支持的功能？

What kind of AI APIs do you have so that I can interface with the data layer of my data and, you know, do things that your platform doesn't have yet?

你们有什么工具能让我直接完成所有这些操作？

And what kind of tooling do you have to let me do all of this stuff directly?

我们有个潜在客户想完全自主开发表单逻辑。

We had a customer who, like a prospect, who wants to build out all their own forms logic.

表单的附件逻辑非常复杂。

And attachment logic for forms is very complicated.

这是从来没人愿意做的事。

And it's something that no one has ever wanted to do.

有趣的是这些对话的转变——过去人们会说：这是我的逻辑表格，你们来搞定。

And it's fascinating how these conversations have shifted because in what I would call the old days, folks would say, here's the spreadsheet of my logic.

你们来做。

You do it.

我不懂这些。

I don't understand it.

我连表格都不想填。

I don't even want to fill out the spreadsheet.

对吧？

Right?

那可是我们入职流程中最痛苦的部分。

And that was the most painful part of our onboarding process.

现在这位潜在客户和我正僵持着，他们坚持要自己开发所有的表单逻辑。

And here this prospect and I are getting, you know, they're ready to tussle around the fact that they want to build out all their own forms logic.

我就想，你居然想主动揽下入职流程中最难的部分？

And I'm like, you want to do all the work for the most difficult part of the onboarding process?

你对我提的大要求就是自己动手干活，而不是让我来编写这些逻辑代码？

That's your big ask to me is that you get to do the work yourself instead of having me code in all this logic.

你想自己编写所有逻辑代码。

You want to code up all your logic yourself.

当然，你完全可以这么做。

Like, of course you can do that.

对吧？

Right?

这简直是美梦成真。

Like, that's a dream come true.

我们遇到很多这类情况，尤其是新成立的MGAs都带着这种预期来谈合作。

And we're seeing a lot of these, you know, especially newer MGAs are coming to the table with these expectations.

对吧？

Right?

他们就是想要快速行动。

They're like, wanna move fast.

我想尽快把它搞定。

I wanna get it set up quickly.

你懂吗？

You know?

对。

Yeah.

但他们不是也带着懂行的团队成员或员工一起来吗？

And but aren't they also coming with staff or people or members of their team that are knowledgeable and able in this regard?

确实如此。

Definitely.

我是说，就像你刚才分享的那个案例，那是个相当复杂的需求，就像你说的，这种需求并不常见。但我认为未来会越来越多，尤其是当非技术背景的保险从业者逐渐理解这些技术原理、运作方式和具体内涵时。

That I mean, that's a fairly, like the story you just shared is a fairly sophisticated ask that you, that like you were saying, you don't see every day, but I think that you'll probably see it increasingly, particularly as lay people, if you will, technical insurance people come to understand what all this, how all this works and what it all means and what's a part of it.

如果客户主动给你提方案建议，我一点都不会惊讶。

It wouldn't surprise me to see your customers bringing you ideas.

这绝对没错。

That's definitely true.

我认为领导者必须清楚自己站在变革的哪一边，这非常关键。

And I think that it's really critical for leaders to recognize which side of the shift they're on.

对吧？

Right?

比如，我们用AI解析所有辩护律师的账单，实际上比人工录入数据更准确。

Like, we do AI parsing of all your defense counsel invoices, and we actually do that data entry more accurately than a human.

我们注意到有位客户没有使用它。

And we had a client that we noticed wasn't using it.

我们当时就想，这可是免费的。

We were like, what's you know, it's free.

对吧？

Right?

这非常令人困惑，因为我们发现他们还在手动录入所有数据，但我们的系统比人工更准确。

Like, we're more it's very confusing because we're like, wait, they're data entering it all manually, but we're more accurate than humans.

我们犯错更少，而且显然转发邮件自动录入数据的工作量更小，对吧？

We make fewer mistakes and it's obviously less work, right, to forward an email and have it all get data entered.

简而言之，正如你所料，负责数据录入的员工担心自己会失业。

And the long and short of it, as you'd expect, is that the person who is doing all of the data entry was afraid they would lose their job.

他们原本负责所有数据录入工作，现在却不需要了。

They're doing all the data entry and now they don't have to.

他们只需转发邮件并重新录入数据，却担心因此丢掉工作。

They just forward the emails and redo the data entry for them, and they're worried they were going to lose their job.

因此我认为，从领导层角度必须认识到，这里存在巨大的人才浪费。

And so it's, I think, critical from a leadership perspective to recognize, you know, there's a lot of wasted talent there.

对吧？

Right?

所以作为领导者，除非你想被那些期待自动化的人彻底打败，否则就该推动团队思考：'如果你在做数据录入，我该从哪里叫停？'

And so your job as a leader, unless you want to get completely beaten by the folks that are coming up expecting these things, is to go to your team and push them to say, Hey, if you're doing data entry, where can I stop?

同时要让大家相信：'我们不会因为效率提升就裁掉你，明白吗？'

And give people confidence that, Hey, we're not going to eliminate your job just because you've made us more efficient, right?

比如我们可以让你专注于更有针对性、差异性的工作，并扩大业务规模，对吧？

Like we can have you do more focused, differentiated work and scale the business, right?

这里的关键不是你的工作会消失。

The point here is not that your job is going go away.

而是如果你在处理这些理赔数据录入，那么你可以专注于调整工作，对吗？

It's that if you are doing this data entry on claims, then you can focus on adjusting, Right?

真正的原因是，举例来说，AI在设定准备金方面还比不上最优秀的人类。

And the really because, like, for example, AI, not that good at, you know, setting reserves compared to the best humans.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

但这里仍然存在一些非常显著的差异化优势。

Still there, you know, there's still some very differentiated advantages here.

所以你可以培养她并说，很好。

And so you can raise her in and say, great.

现在我们的业务处理能力可以翻倍，因为领导者有责任给员工信心和安全感，同时也要甄别这些情况，毕竟需要优秀的领导力来说：嘿。

Now we can handle twice as much business because, you know, you see There's a responsibility on the leader side to give your people confidence, give your people security, and also suss these things out because you need good leadership to say, hey.

我们不再那样做了。

We don't do that anymore.

对吧？

Right?

如果你想保住工作，就不能再手动录入数据了。

Like if you want to give your job, you got to not be data entering things manually.

这不是销售过程中经常遇到的问题或担忧吗——我们的工作会不会被取代？

Isn't it a common question or concern that you run into during the sales process, you know, well, isn't that our jobs are gonna get eliminated.

我是说，这确实是当今AI领域的一个主题。

I mean, it's a certainly a theme in AI today is about that.

今早开车时我刚听到一个节目，斯坦福AI项目的负责人正好在谈论失业成本将如何在全国范围内产生影响。

I just heard a program this morning as I was driving around about a guy who leads the whole Stanford AI initiative talking about just that about, you know, the cost of unemployment is gonna be across, you know, the country nationally.

我的意思是，你们遇到过这种情况吗？

And I mean, do you run into that?

这是你们听到的担忧吗？

Is that a concern that you hear?

我不认为这是我们在销售过程中听到的担忧，因为在销售过程中你处理的是商业层面，对吧？

I don't think it's a concern that we hear during the sales process, because at the sales process, you're dealing with the business level, right?

他们会说'如果所有竞争对手都超越我们，我们的生意就要倒闭了'，对吧？

Which is, hey, you're, you know, they're like, our business is going to go out of business if all of our competitors beat us, right?

然后所有人都会失业，对吧？

And then everyone's lost their jobs, right?

所以保住员工工作的首要方式是发展业务和创新。

So the number one way to keep people's jobs is to grow your business and innovate.

当然，我对具体岗位变化没有清晰概念。

And for sure, I don't have a good sense of what the jobs look like.

对吧？

Right?

如果你的工作只是数据录入，那么转型并找到能为企业创造其他价值的方向很重要。

If your job is just data entry, it's important that you pivot and figure out where else you can add value to your business.

值得注意的是，每次重大技术变革时，我们预想的情况总与实际发生的不符。

I think it's of note that every time there's been a huge technological change, what we think is gonna happen is not what happens.

对吧？

Right?

比如，我特别喜欢ATM机刚出现那会儿，简直让人惊叹不已。

Like, that I really like is when the ATM came out, it was like, oh my gosh.

银行柜员要失业了。

Bank tellers are done.

对吧？

Right?

现在你可以直接从ATM机取钱了。

Now now you can get your money out of an ATM.

再也不需要那么多银行柜员了。

There's not gonna be any more bank tellers.

但实际上，现在从事柜员工作的人比ATM刚推出时还要多出几百倍。

And there's something like like hundreds or I think it's hundreds more bank tellers today, like in person human ones than there were when the ATM was released.

而且ATM网点数量也增加了30多万个。

And there's also, like, 300,000 more ATM locations.

所以，

So,

要知道，那些柜员并没有失业。

you know, those tellers didn't lose their jobs.

事实上，现在的柜员数量比过去多出了好几个数量级。

In fact, we have orders of magnitude more tellers than we had before.

只是工作角色发生了转变。

The role has just shifted.

我认为唯一真正被技术淘汰的职业是电梯操作员。

I think the only job to actually be eliminated by technology was elevator operator.

这就像历史上的事情。

That's like in history.

所以，你知道，这并不是说某个工作或任务可能会被淘汰，但我认为这并不必然意味着某个角色会被淘汰。

And so, you know, that's not to say that a job or a task might be eliminated, but I don't think that correlates to a role necessarily being eliminated.

如果真的发生这种情况，作为企业，解决方案不是拒绝改变，因为我认为人们认识到采用技术对于保持商业领先至关重要。

And if it does, if you're a business, the solution is not don't change because I think people recognize that adoption of technology is just critical to staying ahead in business.

我的意思是，这是你保持领先的方式。

I mean, it's how you stay ahead.

看在上帝的份上，这是你跟上时代的方式。

It's how you keep up for goodness sake.

我想利用我们剩下的几分钟时间转换话题，稍微谈谈你。

I want to pivot in the few minutes that we have left and talk about you a little bit.

我最喜欢谈论的话题，罗布。

My favorite thing to talk about, Rob.

我不相信。

I don't buy that.

虽然从你在领英上的帖子看不出来。

Although you wouldn't know that from your posts on LinkedIn.

嘿，看看我。

Hey, look at me.

不，这很棒。

No, it's great.

事实上，今天开始前我就提到过，我一直在关注Cam的历程，主要是通过领英，这很棒。

In fact, I mentioned before we went on today that I followed Cam's journey, you know, basically through LinkedIn, it's been great.

虽然这些年来我们在各种会议上多次相遇，你似乎参加了世界上几乎所有的会议。

Although our paths have crossed several times through the years at conferences of which you seem to attend just about everyone that exists in the world.

是啊，我明天要去佛罗里达盈余。

Yeah, I'm headed Florida surplus tomorrow.

在斯坦和

On Stan and

西棕榈滩。

West Palm Beach.

就是这样。

There you go.

谈谈这段历程吧。

Talk about the journey.

我的意思是，回顾过去，你能相信七年前你试图做的事情吗？

I mean, looking back, I mean, you believe what you were trying to do seven years ago?

我是说，你现在知道的更多了吧？

And I mean, much more you know now?

我的意思是，你领导一家公司七年了，你们还在坚持。

I mean, you've led a company for seven years, you guys are still around.

看起来发展得不错。

It's seemingly thriving.

请稍微谈谈你有幸经历的这段旅程。

Talk a little bit about the journey that you've had the privilege of being on.

是的，我是说，我认为称之为特权是最贴切的，你知道，确实没想到，你知道，你不会预料到这样的事情。

Yeah, I mean, I think to call it a privilege is really the truest thing in that, you know, certainly didn't, you know, you don't expect something like this.

我是说，当我们从一个假设出发时，对吧？

I mean, when we were coming from the place of a hypothesis, right?

这个假设就是，好吧，你知道，我们非常强烈地感觉到两件事将会发生。

Which was that, okay, you know, we feel really strongly that two things are going to happen.

一是保险市场会出现这种碎片化现象。

One is that there's this fragmentation in the insurance market.

你无法服务这些小客户，知道吗，这些零到一规模的MGA（管理型总代理）。

You can't serve these little guys, know, these zero to one MGAs.

它们没有立足之地，但将会迅猛发展。

There isn't a place and they're going to grow dramatically.

所以一方面就像是，你知道，当你有个想法并且你，你知道，押注这个想法时，你只是在等待，你知道，你会觉得我肯定是对的。

And so one thing is sort of the, you know, when you have an idea and you're, you know, betting on that idea and you're just kind of waiting for, you know, you're like, I'm sure I'm right.

我肯定是对的。

I'm sure I'm right.

我肯定是对的。

I'm sure I'm right.

这非常，你知道，显然看到MGA领域的这种增长让人欣慰，并且说，好吧，我希望我们更早行动，但就像我们，你知道，预见到了这种情况。

It's very, you know, obviously gratifying to see this growth in the MGA space and say, okay, I wish we were early, but like we did, you know, see that this would happen.

老实说，我认为我个人生活中发生了巨大变化。

And honestly, I think the there's been a ton of change that has happened in my life personally.

比如，你知道，在旧金山待了七年，两周前刚搬到纽约，因为那里是金融服务的中心，对吧？

Like, you know, was in New York in San Francisco for seven years and just moved to New York two weeks ago because it is the heart of financial services, right?

正如我所说，过去一年我们的业务规模显著扩大，很明显我们的潜在客户、现有客户和业务都需要我留在这里。

As we've expanded, like I said, pretty dramatically over the last year, it's very clear that our prospects and our customers and our business, I need to be here.

这就引出了你的问题：我们是一家科技公司还是一家保险服务公司？

And this gets into your question of are you a tech company or an insurance, you know, services company?

当时做出这个决定非常有趣——我们的办公室和总部仍设在旧金山，因为我们是一家科技公司，那里有最优秀的科技人才，或者说聚集了大量顶尖技术人才。

It was a very interesting decision to say, well, you know, our office and our headquarters is still in San Francisco because we are a tech company and that's where the best tech talent is, you know, or a lot of the best tech talent.

我们的工程团队驻扎在那里，但与此同时，你也必须贴近客户和潜在客户所在的地方。

And our engineering team is there, but at the same time, you know, you have to be where your customers are and your prospects are.

在经历了足够多的横跨美国的航班后，你会说：好吧。

And, you know, so after enough cross country flights, you say, okay.

我发现返程航班比去程要轻松得多。

And I'll just it's easier to take cross country flights back the other way than this way.

你看，这确实很戏剧性。

So that's, you know, been dramatic.

我一直认为学习是最让我着迷的事，也正是这种热爱让我对这个领域保持了长久的兴趣。嗯。

And I also think that my favorite thing has always been learning, And I think it's what's kept me interested in this space for so long Mhmm.

这个领域的知识深渊简直深不可测。

Is the rabbit hole just goes so deep.

每次当我自以为掌握了某些东西时——

And every time that I think I'm like, oh, yeah.

‘啊，我懂了’。

I understand it.

总会有客户来电询问——要知道我们提供超过100种不同的保险产品线，但几乎每两周还是会有人问：‘你们做这个业务吗？’

Someone will get on a call and literally, you know, we do more than a 100 different lines of coverage and still consistently, you know, maybe once every couple weeks, someone will say, hey, do you do this?

他们会给我一个缩写词。

And they'll give me an acronym.

我正在尽可能快地输入Chat GPT，想问：这家伙到底在说什么？

And I'm, typing in the chat GPT as fast as I can to say, what on earth is this guy talking about?

这就是这个领域的魅力所在——归根结底，这是风险交换。

And that's the beauty of this space is at the end of the day, it's this risk exchange.

人们买卖风险并以此进行交易。

People are buying and selling risk and bartering on it.

你可以深入挖掘，真正迷人地理解风险的定义、结构方式以及处理方法。

And you can drill all the way down to really fascinating understanding of what defines risk and how is that structured and how do you handle it.

这永远不可能千篇一律。

And it's just never gonna be cookie cutter.

所以一方面，你总是在学习保险领域可能出现的各种变化形式。

And so A, you're just kind of constantly learning about the different permutations that this can take on the insurance side.

而从技术问题集的角度看，你永远做不完。因为尽管你很想说'好了，这个漂亮的整洁盒子，大家都装进去吧'。

And from a technology problem set, you're never done Because, you know, as much as you'd like to say, great, you know, here's this nice clean box, everybody fit in the box.

但总会出现某些变化让你觉得'啊，这个装不进盒子里'。

Inevitably, there's some permutation that comes up where you're like, ah, that doesn't fit in the box.

所以现在我们必须从技术角度想办法调整盒子、进化盒子、扩大盒子，以容纳这个我们尚未理解的新事物。

So now we have to figure out how to, from a tech perspective, shift the box and evolve the box and, you know, grow the box to be able to include this new thing that we hadn't understood yet.

那

That

完全没有放缓。

hasn't slowed at all.

如果说有什么变化的话，那就是加速了，这非常令人兴奋。

If anything, it's accelerated, and that's just very exciting.

你知道吗？

You know?

让你欲罢不能。

Keeps you hooked.

我只是想请教你关于公司运营的事。

I just want to ask you about running the company.

伙计们，我记得在资料中看到，就像你说的，你们是盈利的。

You guys, I remember and in my reading, like you said, you're profitable.

你们从未进行过大规模融资。

You've never done a great big raise.

你们一直维持着这种状态。

You've kept it going.

现在还是这样吗？

Is that still the case?

我们在2022年3月进行了一小轮融资，因为如果你是一家名称中带AI的科技公司，作为创始人，我有受托责任去融资——当时市场价格和财务逻辑都支持这么做。

We raised a little bit of money in March 2022 because if you were a tech company with AI in your name in March 2022, as a founder, I had a fiduciary duty to raise money because of just the prices on the market and just how it made sense financially.

所以我们进行过几次适度融资，筹集了几百万美元，足够支持业务增长。

So we've raised, you know, a decent amount of money a couple times, a few million dollars, you know, enough to, like, support growth.

我们并不反对通过融资来支持激进增长。

And we're, you know, not against taking capital to support, you know, aggressive growth.

但关键在于，这些选择现在不必是非此即彼的了。

But I think the important thing here is that those things don't need to be mutually exclusive anymore.

对吧？

Right?

就像Figma的IPO就是一个绝佳的例证，确实如此。

Like, the Figma IPO is a really great demonstration of, like, yes.

实际上，人们依然青睐那些能赚钱的盈利企业。

Actually, people still like, you know, profitable businesses that make money.

而且Figma是另一个很好的例子，他们花了很长时间才进行IPO。

And, you know, Figma is also another great example, right, where it took them quite a long time before their IPO.

对吧？

Right?

他们深思熟虑地建立了一个真正能成功并扩展的商业模式。

They were thoughtful about, you know, building a real business that, you know, would succeed and scale.

所以，我们对商业的思考方式有些不同，但我觉得并非如此。

And so, yeah, like, how we think about business is a little bit different, but I think not Yeah.

与规模增长无关。

Exclusive of scaling growth.

很高兴看到你还在坚持。

Well, it's great to see that you are still at it.

我是说，七年过去了，你现在看起来确实像30岁。

I mean, well, here we are seven years later and you do look like you're 30 now.

太好了。

Great.

很高兴听你这么说。

Glad to hear it.

是啊，我想以友善的方式结束这个话题。

Yeah, I thought I'd end this by being nice.

你喜欢你的30岁，Ram。

You like your 30, Ram.

我确实看起来像30岁。

I do look like I'm 30.

我现在胡子里有很多金发，20多岁时可没有。

I have a lot of blonde in my beard now where I didn't have that when I was in my 20s.

所以这就是破绽。

So that's the giveaway.

听着，等我去纽约时，你得请我吃个午饭什么的。

Well, listen, when I'm in New York, you'll have to buy me lunch or something.

看在上帝的份上。

For goodness sake.

是啊。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

很公平。

Seems fair.

我们会实现的。

We'll make that happen.

你也该联系下Alex。

And you should look up Alex too.

我会的。

I will.

他就在这附近。

He's around here.

他在布鲁克林。

He's in Brooklyn.

哦，太好了。

Oh, great.

我会去的。

I'll be there.

我九月份就搬过去。

I'm moving there in September.

酷。

Cool.

听着，我们真的很感谢你能回来。

Well, listen, we really appreciate you coming back.

你的成功让我们感到非常高兴和激动。

And it's a pleasure and thrilled with the success that you've created.

别停下。

And don't stop.

好的。

Okay.

非常感谢，罗布。

Thanks so much, Rob.

很高兴见到你。

Great to see you.

谢谢。

Thank you.

总是很愉快。

Always a pleasure.

七年前，我们曾邀请他上过播客。

Seven years ago, we had him on the podcast.

七年啊。

Seven years.

多疯狂？

How crazy?

这有多疯狂？

How crazy is that?

我是说，他当时应该才刚起步第一年吧？

I mean, he had to be what early on first year, right?

他刚从Y Combinator毕业，就是那个BizDix加速器，反正当时在经营他的小生意。

He had just come out of Y Combinator, the BizDix accelerator, whatever, and was running his little business.

我是说，他当时对保险只懂一点皮毛，现在回想起来挺有意思的，因为他现在已经是成熟的领导者和保险专家了。

I mean, he knew a little bit about insurance and it's kind of coral because now he's like a mature leader and knowledgeable insurance guy.

他现在精通

He knows all

保险领域的一切。

about insurance now.

这种事常有，对吧？

It happens, right?

它就是会黏上你。

It just sticks to you.

你不知不觉就学会了。

You just start picking it up.

有趣的是，我们保险行业里有些人精通保险业务，而另一些人则擅长周边相关领域。

It's interesting how some of us in the insurance world, we have expertise in insurance and then some of us in the insurance world have expertise in things around it.

比如我的朋友李·博伊德。

For example, my friend Lee Boyd.

对。

Yeah.

你两者兼备。

You have both.

你当过理赔员。

You were an adjuster.

你有丰富的理赔经验，非常非常丰富的理赔经验。

You have a lot of claims experience, super ton of claims experience.

所以你对流程和细节都很了解，同时也具备了管理能力。

So you have lots of knowledge of the process and the little nuances of it but you also have become a management.

你拥有很多管理专长

You have a lot of management expertise

不，你一直是我

No, that you've been I

知道

know

样样都懂一点。

a little bit about a lot.

是啊，是啊。

Yeah, yeah.

你很肤浅，但很宽泛。

You're very shallow, but very wide.

非常肤浅，非常宽泛。

Very shallow, very wide.

这是每个人都想被称呼的。

It's what everybody wants to be called.

我对所有我在乎的人都这么说。

I to all say the people that I care a lot about.

你很肤浅。

You're very shallow.

所有的爱。

All the loving.

你真好。

That's nice of you.

谢谢。

Thank you.

听着，非常感谢Cam时隔七年再次与我们相聚，并向他致以最美好的祝愿。

Listen, big thanks to Cam for being with us again after seven years, and best wishes to him.

谢谢大家收听我们的节目。

Thank you, everybody, for listening to us.

也谢谢你，Lingboy，虽然今天迟到了一小会儿但还是加入了我们。

And thank you, Lingboy, for joining us even though you were a little late today.

我是迟到了一小会儿，但我现在到了。

I'm a little late, but I'm here now.

但你现在到了。

But you're here now.

那我们下次见。

So until next time.

大家再见。

Goodbye, everybody.