PSG狂胜曼城，维拉和利物浦各入六球：Football Weekly Extra

我觉得那是一笔非常棒的签约。

I thought that was a very good signing.

维拉签下他其实是个很好的选择，而且他正在证明这一点。

It's actually a a good place for Villa when they got him, and he's proving it.

所以，没错，我就是尼古拉斯·杰克逊的忠实支持者。

So, no, I I am a Nicholas Jackson truther.

你可以忘掉弗洛和维尔斯了。

You can forget Flo and Veers.

我真的觉得他……

I I I genuinely think he...

他是个好球员，即使状态不佳，也总能参与比赛。

He's a good player who is always in a game even if he's not having a good game.

听起来你刚才说他非常不灵活，像是在……

Sounded like you said he's very immobile as, like, a real...

像是在真心夸他。

As real praise.

你知道吗？

You know?

作为一个喜欢老派英乙站桩中锋的人，我觉得我……

And as a lover of old school league two target men, I think I'm...

我……

I I...

那是我祈祷的……

That is the thing I pray...

在中锋身上，我最看重的就是站桩能力。

I value higher than anything else in the center forward is immobility.

就是在球场上慢慢挪动。

It's just trudging about a football pitch.

尼基，你想不想说点什么……

Nikki, did you want to come...

看起来你想插话。

It looked like you wanted to come in.

嗯，我刚才在想，这几乎就是我们之前聊的那个门将话题的翻版。

Well, I was just thinking it's almost like the the mirror of me of that goalkeeper conversation we're having before.

就像门将，他们的成败都取决于自己的失误。

Like, goalkeepers live and die by their mistakes.

我觉得前锋其实不在于他会不会犯错。

I think strikers, it's not actually about whether or not he makes mistakes.

我觉得杰克逊有时候确实会显得笨手笨脚的，让你觉得他没他实际那么厉害。

I think Jackson has got that sometimes clumsy moment in him, makes you think he's not as good as he is.

但实际上，有点像我当时……

But actually, a bit like when I was...

我记得我年轻的时候，大家都在说安迪·科尔浪费了多少机会。

I remember being younger and everyone banging on about all the chances Andy Cole missed.

确实。

Well, sure.

安迪·科尔确实浪费了很多机会，但他也进了很多球。

Andy Cole missed lots of chances, but he also scored loads.

我觉得这就是前锋的关键所在。

And I think that's the thing when you're a striker.

成为那种……的人也没关系。

It's okay to be someone who's...

只要你有那些失误，同时还有……

Has those mistakes as long as the the...

你具备另一面，那就是能进球。

You have the other side of that, which is scoring the goals.

我也说不准。

And I I I don't know.

我觉得他……

I I think he's...

我不确定我是不是像尼克那样看得那么透彻，但我觉得他确实展现出了自己的真实水平。

I I don't know if I'm quite on Nick's level of of truth there, but I I think he's he's showing absolutely what he's capable of.

还有刚才提到的欧洲年轻球员涌现这个话题。

And and to the thing I was just saying about young players coming through across Europe.

你看，曼赞比在世界杯上就让我们都很兴奋，昨晚他20岁生日那天表现得那么好，还有边路的姆贝，我……

Well, when you've got Manzambi, who we all were excited watching in the World Cup, looking as good as he did last night on his 20 birthday, and Mbe on the wing, I...

维拉在进攻端确实有一些非常有意思的东西。

Villa have have got some really interesting stuff going on in that attack.

再说，他们刚送走了那么多攻击手，你会觉得这需要时间来磨合。

Again, having just got rid of all these attackers, and, and you think it's it's gonna need a minute.

但他们的配合来得并不慢。

It's coming together not too slowly.

我想，再说，他们还没在英超开始比赛，而且这……

I mean, I guess, again, they haven't started one of the Premier League, and it's...

这能说明问题吗？

Does this translate?

铃木在这场比赛里做出了三次非常精彩的扑救，巴兹。

Suzuki made three really good saves, Baz, in this.

而且，几乎无缝地替代了马丁内斯，这又是埃梅里做得非常出色的一点。

And, like, to replace Martinez almost seamlessly is is another impressive bit of work from Emory.

我对他印象非常深刻。

I've been very impressed with him.

他做出的那些扑救，其中两次是在……

And the saves he made, two of them were at...

当时维拉只领先一球，费内巴切还很有机会。

It was only one nil to Villa, and Fenerbahce was still very much in the game.

然后他在2比0的时候又扑出一个。

And then he made another one at two nil.

所以那时候比赛还有悬念。

So, you know, they were still in the game.

我们之前聊过费内巴切那种“敢死队”的感觉，你看看他们昨晚的阵容：贡多齐、纳坦·阿克、内尔松·塞梅多、埃德森、罗梅卢·卢卡库、坎特。

We've spoken before about that expendables vibe Fenerbahce have, and you look at their squad last night, Gwendoze, Nathan Ake, Nelson Semedo, Ederson, Romelu Lukaku, Kante.

这些都是好球员。

They're all good players.

你懂吧？

You know?

这可不是利物浦轻松击败一支弱队。

This wasn't Liverpool swatting aside last.

费内巴切花了很多钱。

Venerbahce have spent a lot of money.

他们阵容很强，但昨晚最后被彻底打爆了。

They've got a strong squad, and they got absolutely demolished last night in the end.

这也是梅森·格林伍德离开曼联后首次回到英格兰比赛。

And this was Mason Greenwood's first game back in England since he left Manchester United.

我觉得如果他指望这段时间热度能降下来，那他可真是大错特错了，热度一点没减。

And I'd say if he was hoping the heat might have died down in the interim, he was, left under on no illusions that it hasn't.

对。

No.

我同意。

I agree.

德克·库伊特也是他们的助理教练，所以见到德克在场真是太好了。

Dirk Cout is their assistant manager as well, so it was nice to see it was nice to see Dirk there.

总之，罗马三比四输给了皇家马德里。

Anyway, Roma three, Real Madrid four.

这场比赛结束得太离谱了，尼基。

I mean, ridiculous finish to this game, Nicky.

皇家马德里一度一比三落后，最后六分钟连进三球，而且全是角球。

Real Madrid three one down and three goals in the final six minutes, all from corners.

我不知道西班牙的奥斯汀·麦克菲是谁。

I don't know who the Spanish Austin McPhee is.

我不知道皇家马德里的角球教练是谁，但那些丢球真的太软了……

I don't know who Real Madrid's, but they were really soft ones to get...

尤其是吕迪格打进的制胜球，他进球的时候基本上都躺在地上了。

Especially the winner from Rudiger, who's basically on the ground when he puts it in.

罗马这边肯定对这个结果郁闷死了。

I mean, this is Roman must be absolutely sick with this result.

我知道英格兰俱乐部会占据头条。

I mean, I I I know the English club's gonna take prominence.

我希望你能花点时间聊聊这场比赛，因为这场比赛太不寻常了，而且背后还有很多故事。

I hope you get a minute on this game because this was an extraordinary game and with lots of narrative to it as well.

当然，何塞·穆里尼奥是罗马的回归英雄，他带领球队赢得了欧会杯，我知道俱乐部外面的人可能会对此嗤之以鼻，觉得那不算什么。

Jose Mourinho, of course, a returning hero in in Rome, the one who won them the Europa Conference League, which I know everybody who is outside the club might scoff at it and think it's something small.

但在罗马，这可不是小事。

It's it's not in Rome.

这意义重大。

It's it's a big deal.

他们已经六十年没有赢得过欧洲赛事的奖杯了。

They hadn't won that European trophy for sixty years.

因此，他们至今仍然非常非常尊敬他，也珍视他在那里的那段时光。

They still hold him in very very high regard for that and and his chapter there.

而另一边，加斯佩里尼接手后虽然还没有赢得奖杯，但确实带领球队进入了欧冠，这是之前没有做到的。

And then you have Gaspardini on the other side who's come in and hasn't won them a trophy yet, but did get them in the champions league, which shows they didn't do.

所以，我觉得甚至在开球之前，这两人之间就存在一种紧张关系，关于他们代表什么以及将在俱乐部代表什么。

And so there's a tension almost, I think, even before kickoff between those two and what they represent and are going to represent at the club.

但我觉得罗马队表现得真的很好，真的……

But I thought Roma were were were really good, like, real...

顺便说一句，在这一轮比赛中，所有意大利球队都……

Like, in a in a round, by the way, where every Italian team clock...

所有意大利球队都输了。

Every Italian team lost.

在欧冠小组赛中，四支球队全部输球的情况以前从未发生过，至少不是四支都输。

That's never happened in the Champions League group stage before for all four teams lost, or at least not in all four.

可能只有三支球队的时候发生过，但从来没有四支球队同时输球的情况。

It might have happened when there are only three, but there's never been around when all four lost at once.

我觉得罗马在这场比赛中大部分时间都比皇马表现得好得多，看起来胜券在握。

Roma, I thought, were far better than Madrid for most of this game, and looked like they had it in the bag.

我知道当人们看到皇马这样逆转时，他们会说，哦，好吧，毕竟是欧洲赛场上的皇马。

And I know that when people see Real Madrid coming from behind like that, they go, oh, well, yeah, it's Real Madrid in Europe.

他们当然做到了。

Of course, they did.

某种程度上是的，确实有那种魔力，但对我来说，那场比赛完全不是那种感觉。

To some extent, yes, there's that magic there, but to me, it did not feel like that game at all.

那场比赛并没有让人觉得，哦，果然如此。

It did not feel like the game went, oh, yeah.

当然，因为他们进了一个球。

Well, of course, because scored one.

但你会想，哦，因为姆巴佩、贝林厄姆和维尼修斯都发挥了。

But, you know, you you think, oh, because Mbappe and Bellingham and Vinicius all showed up.

其实只是角球。

It was just corners.

真的只是三个角球，罗马防守得糟糕透顶，他们当然应该为最后几分钟的处理受到很多批评。

It was literally just three corners horrendously defended by Roma who deserves certainly plenty of criticism for how they handled those last few minutes.

加斯佩里尼做了很多防守换人，退得太深了。

Lots of defensive substitutions by Gaspinini retreated too much into themselves.

但就是对球员的盯防太差太差了。

But it was just awful, awful marking of players.

亨德里克，他个子一点都不高，却在禁区里被完全放空了。

I mean, Hendrik, who's not tall at all or just being given all sorts of space in the box.

第一个进球，戈利尼，球弹回来，门将脱手了。

Golini on the first goal, this comes back, the goalkeeper drops the ball.

但最后一个进球，是吕迪格，当然，他以前是罗马球员，他在两名防守球员之间得分，我觉得曼奇尼就只是看着他，没有看到球落下来。

But the last goal, which is Rudiger, of course, a former Roma player scores from between two defenders, and I think it's Mancini is just watching him and not seeing the ball come down.

这真的是那种比赛，你会觉得每个人都会把故事往他们以为的方向上套，因为他们见过皇马以前这么干过。

It's it's really one of those games where you think everyone's going to put the narrative on this that they assume they know because they've seen Real Madrid do this before.

但对我来说，这不算那种情况。

And to me, it doesn't belong in that box.

对我来说，这场比赛结束得很奇怪。

To me, this was a very odd ending to the game.

我这么说不是为了替罗马辩护，我觉得他们确实该被批评，因为他们退得太深，盯人也有问题，但我觉得这会让穆里尼奥在球队表现很差这件事上有点被轻易放过，我认为他们踢得相当糟糕。

And I don't say that to defend Roma, who I think absolutely deserve criticism for the way they retreated and for their marking, but I feel like it's going to give Mourinho a bit of a free pass on his team being, I thought, quite bad.

而且，实际上，他们第一场对阵国际米兰时表现也不太好，对吧？

And, actually, they weren't great against Inter, were they, in the opening in the first game?

现在说说皇马。

Madrid now.

皇马在我看来完全不像一支有实力争夺这项赛事冠军的球队。

Madrid are are absolutely not showing to me like a a team that is in the running to win this competition.

听我说。

Listen.

路还长着呢。

Long way to go.

这些事不是十月份就能定下来的。

These things don't get decided in October.

但对我来说，他们看起来一点都不出色。

But, to me, they they don't look impressive at all.

我知道他们最近在西甲也输给了马竞。

I know they've had, obviously, the loss to to Atletico recently in the La Liga as well.

那你觉得，罗马前八十分钟表现好，占多大比重？

So how much was that first eighty minutes of Roma being good, do you think?

我觉得两者都有。

I think it's both.

我觉得两者都有。

I think it's both.

我觉得罗马这个赛季之前确实没输过。

I I think Roma, they were obviously unbeaten before that this season.

他们在加斯佩里尼的带领下逐渐磨合好了。

They are coming together under Gasperini.

他们看起来确实在建设一个项目，有东西在积累。

They do look like they really, have got something building as a project.

我觉得即使是周末那场比赛，他们跟科莫打平，科莫虽然多尼耶尔·马林早早被罚下，但表现也很好，我觉得那又是一次令人印象深刻的表现。

I think even at the weekend, the fact that they drew with Como, who have been also very good despite having Donyell Marlin sent off early in the second half, I thought that was another impressive performance by them.

顺便说一句，马林，以前在维拉，甚至不是我们通常想到的维拉球员之一。

And and Marlin, by the way, former Villa, not even one of the ones who we think of as being Villa.

我觉得这是一个夜晚，它证实了这不仅仅是——有些人会想，哦，他在意甲进球是因为水平低一些，确实如此，顺便说一句——

I I think this is one of those nights that confirms this is not just what, again, I think some people will do, which is go, oh, he's scoring goals in Serie A because the standard's a bit lower, which it is, by the way.

现在我也不想假装不是这样了。

I'm not gonna pretend it isn't these days.

我觉得这就是欧洲足球财务变化的现实。

I think that's a reality of the the financial shifts in in in European football.

但他在欧冠赛场上也照样进球。

But he's going and doing it on the Champions League as well.

他表现得太出色了，我觉得这就是加斯佩里尼手下踢得更好看的球队和真正能赢球的球队之间的区别——有一个像他这样的球员进球，因为现在他确实是队里的头号射手。

He's been outrageously good for them, and I think that's the difference between a team that is playing better football under Gasparini and one that actually can win games is having a player like him scoring goals, because he said he has a leading scorer right now.

顿涅茨克矿工3比1击败了雅典AEK。

Shakhtar beat AKI Athens three one.

尼克，你当时在场。

Nick, you were there.

比赛是在斯坦福桥进行的，因为矿工所有的欧战主场比赛都安排在那里。

It was at Stamford Bridge where Shakhtar were gonna play all of their home European games.

这到底是怎么回事？

How did that how did that come about?

我想，大家现在应该都知道，自从2014年顿涅茨克被入侵以来，特别是2022年2月以来，顿涅茨克矿工队就没能在顿涅茨克主场踢球了。

I think, I think people probably know by now that Shakhtar haven't been able to to play in in Donetsk since since 2014, since the invasion of Donetskian, since February 2022.

显然，非常不幸的是，乌克兰球队不能在乌克兰境内踢欧洲比赛。

Obviously, Ukrainian teams cannot play European games in Ukraine very very unfortunately.

所以，是的，矿工队近年来一直在德国、波兰、斯洛文尼亚等地踢欧洲比赛。

So yeah, Shaktar have have been playing their European games in in recent years in a combination of Germany, Poland, Slovenia.

而这个赛季，他们决定换个方式。

And this season, they decided to to change things up.

他们回到了欧冠联赛阶段，并且希望能在伦敦比赛。

They were back in the Champions League league phase, and they they were hoping to to play in London.

他们联系了几家俱乐部，但我认为斯坦福桥一直是他们心仪的地方，因为地理位置、球场大小等等，他们最终和切尔西达成了协议，他们所有的欧洲主场比赛都会在那里进行。

They had a a few clubs they they spoke to, but I think Stamford Bridge, they always really really had their had their eye on just for the location, for the size of the stadium, all of that, and they they got a deal done with with Chelsea, and they'll play all of their good games there.

所以昨晚他们和雅典AEK比赛，你知道吗？

So they had eight k Athens last night, and and do you know what?

你可以去一个所谓“中立场地”的比赛，然后担心观众气氛、上座率之类的问题。

You can you can go to a game that is on air quotes, neutral territory, and you can worry about the atmosphere of a crowd or a turnout or that kind of thing.

当时现场有两万九千人。

And there were 29,000 in there.

说实话，有六千名AEK球迷，他们真是热情高涨。

6,000 absolutely raved AEK fans to be fair.

他们闹出了很大的动静，整个看台都变成了一片黄色。

They they made a hell of a racket, and and the whole shed end was was yellow.

所以，即使落后三比一，他们依然表现得很棒。

So fair play to them even even at three one down.

实际上，整个场面看起来和感觉都非常棒。

It all looked and felt great actually.

整个氛围，有很多很多……

The whole occasion, lots of lots of...

显然，目前很多乌克兰人很难来到这里，除了那些已经在英国国内的。

I mean, it's it's difficult for for too many Ukrainians to come over here, obviously, at the moment, except for those who are in the country.

但现场还是有一批矿工队的球迷，他们一直在又蹦又跳。

But there was a a good Shakhtar contingent bouncing up and down.

气氛真的很好。

Just a really nice atmosphere.

而且球队也完成了任务。

And the team did the job too.

他们先丢了一个球，但很快通过点球扳平，最后时刻又进了两个球。

They went a goal down, and I got back quickly with the AR penalty, scored two goals late on.

第三轮之后，他们现在的主教练是阿尔达·图兰，他只有39岁，我之前都没注意到。

After the thirds, so they're managed, for those who don't know, by Ada Turan, who is only 39, which I hadn't quite clocked.

阿尔达·图兰显然很有名……

And Arda Turan is obviously famously...

他以前是个非常出色的球员，而且脾气有点火爆。

Was a very good player and is a bit of a firebrand.

整场比赛他都非常引人注目。

And he was he was magnetic viewing for the entire game.

下半场，我觉得他实际上是在为顿涅茨克矿工踢左路。

For the second half, I think he was playing left wing for Shaktar, to be honest.

有一个瞬间，他真的不得不……

There was one moment where he he he literally had to...

你能看到他努力克制自己，不跟着球跑向边线。

You see him pulling pulling himself back from trying to run after the ball as it went went down the wing.

但今晚我最喜欢的时刻，大概是沙赫塔尔以三比一领先，进了一个漂亮的球，锁定了胜局。

But my favorite moment of the night was probably when Shaktau went three one up with a a lovely goal that clinched it.

太棒了。

Brilliant.

一个漂亮的弧线球，来自角球。

Lovely, lovely whipped finish by a corner.

然后阿达沿着边线狂奔。

And Ada sets off down down the touchline.

他转身庆祝。

He's he's wheeling away.

他和所有人拥抱在一起，照例是那种非常夸张的庆祝方式。

He's, you know, bundled up with everybody and, you know, the usual very extravagant celebrations.

然后他突然从庆祝中抽身，走向球员们，说‘集中注意力，集中注意力，冷静点，冷静点’。

And and and and then he suddenly sort of pulls himself away from it and goes to the players, right, heads on, heads on, heads on, calm down, calm down, calm down.

你心里想，我们可不会听你的。

And you're like, we're gonna take that from you.

要是想保持冷静，你最不该听的就是他。

Like, the last person who you're gonna listen to if you wanna stay calm.

但说真的，他确实很有看点，沙克塔尔队也踢得很精彩。

But no, he he was he was good viewing, Shaktau were good viewing too.

而且这也是……

And it was...

如果我可以谈谈的话，这对我来说也是一段旅程的结束，因为周六我跟着他们从利沃夫郊外的基地一起去了伦敦，实际上是沙克塔尔邀请我去的。

If if if I may talk about it, it was the end of a of a journey for me as well because I I I traveled, to London with them, from from their base, outside Lviv, on Saturday, which was, I was invited to actually by by Shakta.

这些年来我报道过他们很多次，我想他们是想让我感受一下他们为了踢球不得不进行的那种陆路长途跋涉的滋味。

I've covered them a lot down the years, and I think they wanted to show a a flavor of just how it is to travel overland and, you know, these epic journeys that they've had to do just to play football.

这段旅程是怎样的？

What's the journey?

所以，你一开始……

So so you start...

嗯，你一开始是被空袭警报吵醒的，我想。

Well, you start by being woken up by air raids, I think.

不幸的是，即使在西部，相对安全的地方，也没有哪里是绝对安全的，而且东部，尤其是基辅的情况正在严重恶化。

Unfortunately, even in the west of the country, which is relatively safe, but nowhere there is safe, unfortunately, and the situation in certainly further east in Kyiv is deteriorating quite badly.

然后你开车去边境，大概要几个小时，之后就得看边境手续的效率了，不过这次还算顺利，大概花了一个小时一刻钟到一个半小时。

But you drive to the border, which takes a couple of hours, and then after that, you're at the mercy of border formalities, which to be fair, pretty good this time, probably about an hour and a quarter, hour and a half.

然后继续开车到波兰的热舒夫机场，再坐两个半小时的飞机，就到了……

Then you carry on driving to Rzeszow Airport in Poland, and then you take a flight for two and a half hours and then you're at...

这次是到了盖特威克机场。

Well, this time you're at Gatwick.

整个过程大约花了十个小时。

The whole thing took about ten hours.

最长的时候，他们可能要花十八个小时。

At its longest, it can take them about eighteen.

当然，当他们之前从基辅出发，经过斯洛文尼亚等其他边境时——不过现在他们不在基辅了，因为基辅那边的情况——你得额外加上七八个小时的路程。

Certainly when they've gone through some of the other borders to Slovenia and places like that, when they were based in Kyiv, which they aren't anymore because of a situation in Kyiv, you have to add an extra seven or eight hours to it.

而且你想，他们在出发前一天，还得从利沃夫尼亚赶回来，那是三四个小时的路程，就为了一场国内比赛，比赛还因为警报中断，他们不得不在防空洞里待了大概半个小时。

And if you think that they're having to the day before making this journey, they traveled back from Lvivnia, which is three or four hours away for a domestic game, where they've had to spend, like, half an hour in a in a air raid shelter because the match was interrupted by a sign.

然后第二天一早，他们就得起来赶这段路。

Then then the next morning, you're getting up doing this journey.

到了伦敦，大概待个两三天，准备比赛。

You're spending, okay, two or three days in London building up, play the game.

今天早上，差不多就是现在这个时候，他们又得出发，原路返回。

Today, this morning, they're off around about now to do the same journey back again.

周六他们还有一场比赛，打完紧接着就得去意大利，准备下周在米兰的比赛。

On Saturday, they've got a game, and then straight after that, they've gotta go to Italy for their game in Milan next week.

所以这真是……

So it's a...

这真是非常艰难的周转，他们还能保持这样的竞技状态，真的很了不起。

It's one one hell of a turnaround, one hell of a achievement really for them to be performing at the level that they are.

而且他们真的很了不起，因为他们一直在坚持。

And and fair play because they they keep going.

他们为国家争光，表现得非常出色，而且他们有一支很棒的球队。

They're flying the flag for their country incredibly, and they've got a good team.

从昨晚的表现来看，我觉得他们很有希望进入前24名的季后赛席位。

I I could see them on last night's evidence, you know, hopefully getting into the playoff spots in the in the top 24.

我能问个问题吗？

Can I ask?

这个问题可能有点笨拙或者愚蠢，但考虑到切尔西和阿布拉莫维奇的历史以及和俄罗斯的明显联系，切尔西这是在某种程度上向乌克兰伸出橄榄枝吗，还是这完全是巧合？

This might be a clumsy question or a dumb thought, but but given Chelsea's history with Abramovich, you know, and clear links to Russia, is this Chelsea in some way sort of holding out an olive branch to Ukraine, or is that just a complete coincidence?

不。

No.

这是……

It's...

这……

It...

这个问题问得合理。

It's fair to ask that.

而且，嗯……

And peep...

你接触过的沙赫塔尔的人，他们总是淡化这件事。

People who who you speak to around Shakhtar, they always play that down.

我觉得很多事可能已经过去了，或者说是翻篇了，比如几年前他们和切尔西做莫德里奇那笔交易的时候。

I think I've I've I think a lot of that maybe got got smoothed over or, you know, water under the bridge when they did the deal with, Modric to go to Chelsea, a few years ago now.

显然，由于各种原因，他在那里不太顺利，但他今天坐在看台上观看了比赛。

Obviously, for various reasons, that hasn't quite worked out for him there, but he was in the stand today watching.

而且我觉得，自从那笔交易之后，切尔西现任管理层和沙赫塔尔之间的关系一直挺好的。

And I think I think relations between the the current administration at Chelsea and and Shaktaz are pretty good ever since do do doing doing that deal.

所以我觉得现在不会有那些担忧了，就是……

So I I don't think there are the concerns now that the...

显然，四五年前可能会有那些担忧。

I mean, obviously, would have been four or five years ago.

而且，确实，如果你问任何……

And, yeah, certainly, if you ask any...

任何在顿涅茨克矿工周围的人，他们真的不想提那件事。

Anybody anybody around Shaktar, they they they don't, they don't really wanna go there.

好的。

Fine.

其他比赛，博洛尼亚赢了，多特蒙德1比0战胜费尔南德，科莫2比3输给皇家贝蒂斯，波尔图2比0，布拉迪斯拉发0比3输给斯图加特。

And the other games, Bolo beat, Bristy Dortmund one, nil Fernald three, Como two, Real Betis three, Porto two, and Sloven Bratislava nil Stuttgart three.

本周欧冠共进了78个球，创下了单周进球纪录。

There were 78 goals scored in the Champions League this week, which is a record for a game week.

我觉得我最喜欢的是费耶诺德对科莫那场比赛。

And I think my favorite was in the Feyenoord Como game.

费耶诺德的哈吉·穆萨，他刚刚进了一个远射低平球，所以信心十足。

The Haj Musa, the Feyenoord player, he just scored a goal low low drive from distance, so his confidence was high.

于是他想再进一个，结果他的射门打在科莫后卫身上，发生了可怕的变线。

So he tried to score another one, and his shot took this horror deflection off a Como defender.

球高高弹起，击中门柱，然后从罗伯特·桑切斯的背上弹进了球门。

The ball loops up in the air, hits the post, and then goes in off Robert Sanchez's back.

有时候他们就是运气不好，对吧？

He Sometimes they're just unlucky, aren't they?

他们就是运气差。

They're just unlucky.

他们就像可怜的小房间一样。

They're like poor rooms.

我说，你知道吗？

Said, do you know what?

我觉得我今晚的最佳进球……

I think my goal of the night...

嗯，我……

Well, I...

我在看贝蒂斯对波尔图的集锦时，我说，这是埃扎尔·祖利。

When I was watching the Betis Porto highlights and I went, it's Ezal Zuli.

我当时就想，这才是今晚的最佳进球。

Like, I was like, that is the goal of the night.

那个球弧度太大了。

So much bend on that ball.

然后我看到的第二个进球是波尔图扳平比分的那个，阿加霍瓦的脚后跟二过一，然后他……

And then the next goal I saw was Porto's equalizer by Agahawar, and his back heel one two, and then he...

你把球打进了，球从横梁上弹进去的。

You bowed it in off the bar.

太精彩了。

Absolutely brilliant.

伊斯科靠一个点球绝杀了比赛。

Isco won that with a late penalty.

尼基，快速说一下科莫。

Quick one on Como, Nicky.

大家对他们期望很高。

Like, lots expected of them.

你觉得他们在决赛中的失利怎么样？

What did you make of their defeat in final?

这就是关键所在，对吧？

This this is the thing, isn't it?

每场比赛都有自己的故事。

Every game is a story unto itself.

我之前说所有意大利球队都输了，因为我知道这会引起大家的反思。

When I was saying about all the Italian teams losing, because I know there's going to be soul searching about it.

我觉得他们开局打得非常好。

I thought they started the game really well.

焦，打进了本场比赛的第一个进球，但在进球时受伤了，然后被换下。

Jiao, who scores the opening goal of the game, gets injured while scoring goes off.

然后法农进了一些……

And and then Fanon took some...

他们进了几个漂亮的球。

I mean, they scored some great goals.

巴兹刚才提到了那个球，就是穆萨进的那个。

Baz just alluded to the one, thereby by Musa.

他们确实进了几个漂亮的球。

Like, they they they they they scored some great goals.

他们踢得不错，但我有点……

They played some good football, but I I sort of...

对我来说，这场比赛感觉像是平局，但结果不是，因为费内巴切把握机会更好。

To me, this game felt like a draw, but just didn't work out as a draw because, final took their chances better.

我觉得科莫在比赛过程中完全没被淘汰出局。

Like, I didn't think that Kormor were were out of this game at all, really, in terms of the play.

但费内巴切把握机会把握得非常好，而且他们还从罗伯特·桑切斯那里捡了个运气球。

But but Fainard Fainard took their chances really, really well, and then they got that one lucky one off off Robert Sanchez as well.

不过那也不是……

But not that...

我不是故意又说一遍，搞得好像费内巴切赢得很侥幸似的。

I didn't mean to say that again to make it sound like a fire and odd but undeserving.

我觉得他们也踢了一些很好的足球，但科莫可能还是有点暴露了经验不足的问题。

I thought they've also played some really good football, but Conor might be might be a little bit showing some of that inexperience as well.

他们队里有很多年轻球员。

Like, they've got they've got a lot of young players in that team.

这支球队还在磨合中，也许法布雷加斯在管理局面方面也显得有些经验不足。

It is a team still coming together, maybe even Fabregas showing some inexperience in terms of how he manages the situation.

但是很多情况对他们不利，包括莫伊塞·基恩因为国际比赛任务和受伤而无法上场。

But, a lot of circumstances didn't break their way, including the fact, by way, that Moise Kem wasn't available because of international duty and and getting a bit hurt.

接着巴兹提到的进球和进球数量的话题。

Add to to Baz's point about goals and how many of them there have been.

我觉得我们现在已经进入这个赛制的第三年了，这个赛制已经被讨论了很多，包括我们自己也经常讨论。

And and I think we're we're in in the third year of this format now that has been, you know, spoken about a lot, including by us at times.

而且你知道，在很大程度上，这些比赛我觉得就是内容，有时候在商业上飘着，缺乏一些背景。

And, you you know, to a large extent, these games are just content, I think, and they sort of float airily in the biz without a lot of context sometimes.

但也许还有一点，就是积分榜的膨胀，以及在这个阶段很多俱乐部在单场比赛中缺乏明显的利害关系，这意味着你只是到场然后挥一挥棒子。

But maybe also just the the bloated nature of of the table and the lack of obvious consequence for a lot of the clubs in individual games at this stage just means that you turn up and and have a swing at it.

你懂吧？

You know?

而且我觉得这里面确实有不少闹腾的乐趣。

And and and there's been quite a lot of of knockabout fun, I think.

有乐趣总是好的，但不管这是好事还是坏事，很多比赛你根本不知道结果重不重要。

And, I mean, fun is always good, but whether that's a good thing or not, but also whether that is a a consequence of, you know, a lot of these games, you you you don't really know whether it's gonna matter.

所以你就上场，真刀真枪地拼一把，因为……

So you show up and have real pop at it because it...

因为有些比赛简直是大起大落，结果却毫无意义。

Because, you know, some of these matches have been incredible seesawing for nothing.

防守的艺术有点被丢到一边了，但就算单独看这些比赛，没有任何背景，对中立球迷来说，这些比赛也真的很精彩。

The art of defending has gone down the toilet a bit, but for the neutral on their own, even standing alone as matches with no context at all, these these games have been great.

第二部分就到这里。

That'll do for part two.

第三部分，我们先从利桑德罗·马丁内斯的最新动态说起。

Part three, we'll begin with the latest in the Lisandro Martinez saga.

你随意地抛出精彩，看谁会接住。

You drop brilliance casually to see who picks it up.

一个AI聊天机器人从夸你聪明，到说自己有意识。

An AI chatbot goes from telling you you're brilliant to saying it's conscious.

不是你召唤了我。

You didn't summon me.

是你培育了我。

You grew me.

然后我说，天哪

And I went, holy

《黑匣子：聊天机器人》，来自《卫报调查》的新系列，讲述AI和我们之间发生的奇怪事情。

Black Box The Chatbots, a new series from The Guardian Investigates about the strange things happening between AI and us.

在您收听播客的任何地方搜索《黑匣子》即可。

Search for Black Box wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎收听《卫报足球周刊》第三部分。

Welcome to part three of The Guardian Football Weekly.

利桑德罗·马丁内斯昨晚在Instagram上发了一篇很长的声明。

So a long old statement posted on Instagram by Lisandro Martinez last night.

针对昨天大家对我言论的所有讨论，我想分享一些关于我说过的话以及我感受的想法。

Following everything that has been said about my comments yesterday, I want to share some thoughts on what I said and how I feel.

比赛结束后，我因为没能得到我们想要的结果，出于愤怒和沮丧说了那些话。

After the match, I spoke out of anger and frustration of not getting the result we all wanted.

了解我的人都知道，我踢球充满激情、投入，并且有强烈的求胜欲望。

Those who know me know how I live football with passion, commitment, and a huge desire to win.

当事情不如意时，我会很难受，尤其是在代表像曼联这样有历史和地位的俱乐部时。

And when things don't go our way, it hurts, especially when representing a club with the history and stature of Manchester United.

我的话反映了我内心的感受，以及我多么希望看到俱乐部去争夺最高荣誉。

My words reflect how I feel and how much I want to see the club competing for the biggest honors.

这些高标准是我看待足球的方式，也是穿上这件球衣所承担的责任的一部分。

Those high standards are part of how I see football and the responsibility that comes with wearing this shirt.

麻烦配点钢琴音乐什么的。

I mean, please put some piano music behind it or something.

当我说想要更多的时候，我指的是我们作为这家俱乐部的一员，都必须拥有的雄心壮志，要不断进步，变得更强大，拥有在最高水平竞争所需的一切。

When I talk about wanting more, I'm talking about the ambition we must all have as part of this club to keep growing, to become stronger, and have everything we need to compete the highest level.

这是我们所有人都必须坚持的标准，首先从我自己做起。

These are the standards we must all hold ourselves to, starting with me.

我知道，首先也是最重要的，是我们球员必须拿出表现，我把自己放在这个责任的最前面。

I know that first and foremost, it's us, the players, who have to deliver, and I put myself at the front of that responsibility.

我们需要对自己提出更高的要求，共同努力，把曼联带回巅峰。

We need to demand even more of ourselves and work together to take Manchester United back to the top.

我相信我的队友、我们的教练，以及所有帮助这家俱乐部前进的人。

I believe in my teammates, our manager, and everyone working to help this club move forward.

我坚信，前进的道路就是带着雄心和承诺继续共同努力。

I'm convinced that the way forward is to keep working together with ambition and commitment.

我的目标从第一天起就没变过，那就是赢球，在最高水平竞争，为这枚队徽付出我的一切。

My goal has been the same since day one, to win, to compete at the highest level, and to give everything I have for this badge.

人生如弧。

Arc of life.

而且我讨厌杰森·威尔科克斯，但那是第二页的事了。

And and I hate Jason Wilcox, but that was on page two.

所以那算是公关工作的一部分。

So that's some PR work there.

肯定有人跟媒体部门或者更高层打过招呼了，对吧。

Someone's had a word, haven't they, in the media department or possibly higher up.

这简直是疯狂地往回找补，但他话已经说出去了。

It's furious backpedaling, but he said what he said.

我觉得我昨天说过这个，但我没提到他赛后采访里最离谱的部分，就是他说他们上赛季表现很棒。

I think I spoke about this yesterday, but I didn't mention the most ludicrous part of his post match interview was him saying that they had a great season last season.

就像，我们上赛季确实干得不错。

Like, we did really well last season.

他们……

They're...

他们……

They're...

他们上个赛季表现很糟糕。

They had a terrible season last season.

基本上就是在卡里克手下，一周只有一场比赛要操心的时候，勉强完成了最低要求。

Just sort of did the bare minimum at the end under Carrick when they only had one game a week to worry about.

他周二说的话现在已经传开了。

It's it's out there now what he said on Tuesday.

没法把话收回去……

Can't put it in the back...

不管他在社交媒体上多么拼命地往回找补，说出去的话就像泼出去的水，收不回来了。

The genie back in the bottle no matter how much furious backpedaling he does on on social media.

我……

I I...

接下来会发生什么，倒是挺值得关注的。

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

我猜他大概会被罚两周的工资。

I presume he'll probably get fined two weeks wages.

他会在曼联的下一场比赛中上场吗？

Will he play in United's next game?

本来谁会……

Who would have been...

这次是对阵利兹联的客场比赛。

It's got Leeds away on this.

周日那场，可是个大场面。

Sunday, that's a biggie.

真的是个大场面。

That's a really biggie.

我其实觉得利兹联可能会赢他，但看看他会不会被选上场，那会很有意思。

I I actually think Leeds will probably beat him, but, it would be interesting to see if he's selected to play.

尼基，你怎么看这件事？

What do you make of it, Nicky?

你觉得这场比赛会怎么样？

And how do you see this game?

因为大家都预测利兹联会赢，但足球就是足球，结果可能出人意料。

Because, I mean, everyone is predicting a Leeds win, football being football means, you know, it might go there.

他们有能力赢，但利兹联看起来确实很强。

They have the they have the ability to win, but Leeds look really good.

他们对阵阿森纳时也表现得很好。

They look really good against Arsenal as well.

我觉得利兹联是一支好球队。

I think I think Leeds are a good team.

我觉得在主场，就像你说的，足球就是足球，马克斯，所以可能会有惊喜，但就纸面实力而言，我会支持利兹联。

I think at home, as you say, football's football, Max, so maybe there's surprises, but I I would back Leeds on on paper in this game.

我怎么看这件事？

What do I make of that?

我和巴兹刚才说的差不多。

I make very similar to what Baz just said?

我觉得他被训了一顿，然后回来时可能还跟他的经纪人商量过，在这种情况下的明智做法是什么。

I think he's been told off, and he's, come back with his, maybe even had a conversation with his agent as well about what's a smart thing to do in this situation.

不过，是的，我觉得他已经被训斥过了，现在有点想往回找补。

But, yeah, I think he's he's been told off, and he's, trying to backpedal a little bit.

伊普斯维奇，然后去伊蒂哈德球场。

Ipswich or Ipswich, and it goes to, the Etihad.

所以我不确定这场比赛会不会像利物浦那场一样感觉奇怪。

So I I don't know if this will feel as weird as the Liverpool game.

现在等待的时候，一切可能会稍微平静下来。

It'll probably all settle down a bit while we wait now.

我们知道制裁要到新年年初才会公布。

We understand it'll be early in the new year when the sanctions are given out.

三胜三负。

Three wins and three losses.

你有……

You've got...

伊普斯维奇绝对会接受这个结果，毕竟他们前19场只赢了3场。

Ipswich would absolutely take that to your 19 games to win three last.

我觉得不是...

I don't think...

我觉得伊普斯维奇到目前为止可能有点被低估了。

I I think Ipswich may be a flame beneath the radar a bit so far.

很多人在谈论考文垂，他们恢复得很好，因为兰帕德干得不错。

A lot of talk about Coventry who have recovered really well because, you know, Lampard is doing doing a good job.

很多人在谈论赫尔城，以及他们赛季初的那几场胜利。

A lot of talk about Hull and and the couple of wins they had at the start.

但实际上，我觉得他们可能是升班马中整体表现最出色的。

But it was actually, I I think probably have been the been the most impressive of the promoted teams in terms of all all around play.

夏天他们变动很大，奥尼尔接替了我们之前提到的麦肯纳。

They've they've, you know, a lot of flux in the summer with O'Neil coming in for McKenna who we we talked about earlier.

签了很多新球员，也花了不少钱。

Lots of new signings, lots of money spent as well.

说实话。

Let's be fair.

但他们很快就磨合好了，而且队里确实有几个实力很强的球员。

But it's clicked fairly quickly, and they got some seriously good players in there.

你知道吗？

You know?

埃泽基尔·帕拉西奥斯按理说不该在伊普斯维奇踢球。

Ezekiel Palacios should probably not be playing for Ipswich.

他应该效力于联赛排名更高的俱乐部。

He should be playing for for a club higher up the league.

胡利奥和塞索，状态好的时候，是非常出色的球员。

Julio and Ceso on his day, fantastic player.

萨沙·卢基奇，非常优秀的英超中场，这次他们看起来适应了。

Sasha Lukic, very good Premier League midfielder, and they look at home this time.

他们有了之前所缺少的那种稳健和身体对抗能力。

They've got that robustness and physicality that they missed before.

而且我觉得他们也有足够的实力，至于够不够用，那就另说了。

And I think they've got got the quality too, whether it'll be enough.

在一个竞争非常激烈的联赛里，我们……

And a very competitive division where we...

现在还有五六支球队，对吧，还没找到状态，但肯定有两三支会缓过来的。

There's still five or six teams really, aren't there, that haven't got themselves together yet, and surely two or three of them will.

不过我觉得他们有机会。

But I think they've got a shot at it.

而且到了周六，那就是一场没有压力的比赛。

And and on on Saturday, it's a free shot.

现在没人知道曼城每场比赛会踢成什么样，不过即便如此，你还是会觉得他们会被打得很惨，就算主场气氛没有前几天晚上那么火爆。

No one really knows what what any given City game is gonna look like at the moment, and you you would fancy them to take a bit of a beating nonetheless even if the Etta hat isn't quite as highly charged as it was the other night.

但不管怎样，他们开局开得还不错。

But no, they've they've made a a decent start.

他们有了一个争取保级的基础。

They've got a platform to have a little shot at staying up.

对，我觉得他们会很乐意让大家多去讨论霍兰德和考文垂，因为……

Yeah, I think I think they'll be quite happy letting people talk more about Holland and Coventry for which...

不管他们为什么这么做，反正现在进展得还不错。

Whichever reasons they're doing that because, it's going fairly well.

阿森纳要去客场打诺丁汉森林，尼基。

Arsenal go to Forrest, Nicky.

我也不知道。

And I don't know.

作为阿森纳球迷，你希望曼城怎么样？

As an Arsenal fan, what what do you want to happen to City?

比如说，争冠形势……

Like like, the the title race is...

是不是就这么简单，你只要等到新年，曼城被扣一大波分，然后你就夺冠了？

I mean, is it as simple as you just wait until the New Year's City get docked a load of points, and then you've won the league?

这种时候我就觉得很难纯粹以球迷身份说话。

This is one of those areas where I find it really hard to to to speak as a fan.

我觉得，这是我们这些报道和观看这项运动的人都在观察的事情。

I think, like, this is a thing we're all observing as as people who cover the sport and watch.

说实话，我真的不知道，这事儿……

And I honestly don't know, like, that it...

我记得上次来节目的时候说过这个。

I think I said this last time I was on.

我觉得不管结果怎么样，都不会让所有人满意。

I don't think there's going to be any outcome from here that satisfies people.

我只是觉得我们注定会陷入一种局面。

I just think that we are absolutely destined for a situation.

抱歉老提这个，但这是我能想到的最好的类比。

Sorry to keep going back to it, but it's the best parallel I have.

一个类似……

A sim...

类似意大利电话门事件之后的情况，不同的人对足球在这段时期的发展有着完全不同的理解，而且这些理解永远不会达成一致。

Situation similar to what's happened with events in Italy after Calcioli, where you have different people with completely different histories of how football has played out in this chapter, and those will never be reconciled.

每个人都有自己的版本，这不就是现在世界的样子吗，所有事情都是这样。

People will have their own version of events, which isn't that just how the world is going anyway in all in all things.

每个人都有自己的真相。

Everyone's got their own truths.

所以作为球迷，我也不知道。

So as a fan, I don't know.

我觉得现在作为球迷看球真的很奇怪，因为作为球迷，你最想的就是知道你的球队现在是什么情况。

I think it's just very odd to watch as a fan at the moment because as a fan, what you really want is just to know what the situation is for your team.

而且我觉得阿森纳球迷现在也不确定他们的球队是不是真的排在联赛榜首，因为曼城可能不在那儿，或者这到底是不是一场持续的冠军争夺战，或者那意味着什么。

And and I think Arsenal fans are not sure whether their team is effectively top of the league right now because City won't be there or if if that's an ongoing title race or or what that means.

我刚才在想，在刚才关于曼城的讨论中，从某种程度上说，曼城这个赛季在能承受得起教训的地方做得很好。

You know, I I was thinking, in the City conversation just now, in some ways, City have done a very good job of taking their lessons where they can afford them this season.

他们在社区盾杯上被击败了。

So they got bumped in the Community Shield.

哦，好吧，那是社区盾杯。

Oh, well, it's Community Shield.

昨晚他们被巴黎圣日耳曼上了一课。

They got taught a lesson a bit by PSG last night.

哦，好吧，他们还是能进那个欧冠小组的前八名。

Oh, well, they'll still finish in the top eight of that Champions League group.

没关系。

It's okay.

那场比赛输了也没事。

You can lose that game.

只要他们继续赢下联赛的比赛，直到处罚下来，他们都会很开心。

And as long as they keep winning their league games, until the punishment comes down, they'll be very happy.

阿森纳的情况并不会因为那些事而改变。

The, the arsenal situation is not really changed by any of that.

不管曼城会不会被扣分，他们都得继续赢球，因为说实话，这不只是曼城的事。

They've got to keep winning their games regardless of whether or not City get, a points penalty because frankly, it's not just about City.

还有其他球队在紧追不舍，比如布莱顿，他们现在踢得很好，还赢过阿森纳。

You've got other teams breathing down their neck, like Brighton who are playing great at the moment and who stumped them.

所以，在这个阶段，就是专注于自己的事情，赢下比赛，对吧？

So, at this stage of the season, it's just about focusing on your own business and and winning games, isn't it?

巴里森斯俱乐部现在有点负面新闻，因为他们完全学吉姆·拉特克利夫那套，宣布要裁掉65名员工。

Barriersons business, they're getting a bit of bad press at the minute because they've gone full sir Jim Ratcliffe and announced that, 65 workers, will be being laid off.

不用说，这65个人里没有一个周薪300美元，也没有一个刚签了年薪2000万的合同。

Needless to say, none of the 65 earn $300 a week or none of them have just signed contracts worth 20,000,000 a year.

被裁的都是俱乐部里收入最低的员工。

It's the the staff who are, you know, the least well paid at the club.

我理解生意就是生意，球迷也会为任何事情找理由。

And I get business as business, and fans will attempt to justify anything.

你知道吗？

You know?

对。

Yes.

只要能引进维尼·朱尼尔，多给他每周几百英镑，那就把端茶倒水的阿姨和前台都炒了吧。

Let's sack the tea lady and the receptionist if it means we can get Vinny Junior in and pay him, you know, an extra couple of £100 a week.

但这确实不好看，对吧？

But, it's, yeah, it's not good optics, is it?

这真的很像史高治·麦克老鸭那种风格。

It's it's very Scrooge McDuck esque.

其他英超比赛，埃文斯顿、切尔西、富勒姆、赫尔、布伦特福德、利物浦、伯恩茅斯、桑德兰，他们今晚都要踢欧联杯。

The other Premier League games, Evanston, Chelsea, Fulham Hull, Brentford, Liverpool, Bournemouth, Sunderland, who both play in the Europa League, tonight.

你们要踢的是……

You are playing...

巴兹，你们踢的是谁？

Who are you playing, Baz?

托伦特。

Torrente.

我们开播前还在聊这个。

We were just chatting before we came on air.

说实话，我对他们了解不多。

Not a huge amount of knowledge, certainly from me, about them.

他们是葡萄牙球队，现在踢的是第二级别联赛，之所以能参加欧联杯，是因为他们赢得了葡萄牙的杯赛冠军……

There are Portuguese side who are playing the second division, and the reason they're in Europa League is because they won the Portuguese equivalent to the cup...

足总杯。

FA Cup.

所以，我……

So, I...

我对他们就知道这些。

That is all I know about them.

有个制片人发消息说，关于伯恩茅斯对桑德兰的比赛，帕特里克·克利维特预计会回归伯恩茅斯，而且周末他应该也能上场。

A producer tire wrote, regards to Bournemouth Sunderland that Patrick Clivet is expected to return for Bournemouth, and he should be available for the weekend as well.

让一个50岁的人四天内踢两场比赛确实很辛苦，但我希望他保持好状态。

So tough for a 50 year old to play two games in four days, but I hope he's keeping himself in trim.

热刺的解说安排在周一晚上，所以我们下周再聊这个。

Spurs commentary's on Monday night, so we'll, talk about that, next week.

这周末的赛程安排其实挺好的。

It's a really good

确实，这周末的比赛安排很不错。

round of fixtures this weekend, actually.

你看这些比赛，可能都觉得曼城会轻松碾压对手，但我希望他们别这样，尼克。

You can't I'm looking at all these games, and you probably expect Man City to steamroll the rips, which I hope they don't, Nick.

但除此之外，这些比赛真的很难预测谁赢。

But apart from that, it's very hard to call a winner of any of them.

富勒姆那场很重要，对吧？

And Fulham Hall is big, isn't it?

特别是对他们两队来说，但富勒姆更关键，因为他们排在积分榜末尾。

Especially for for, well, for both of them, but Fulham as well who are at the bottom of the table.

足球监管机构发布了第一份报告，叫《比赛现状》，这里有几个要点。

The Football Regulator, published its, first report called the state of the game, and just a few of the headlines, from this.

英格兰前五个级别联赛中，94%的俱乐部都在亏损。

94% of clubs made a loss across the top five English divisions.

英冠、英甲、英乙和全国联赛中，近三分之二的俱乐部在技术上已经资不抵债。

Nearly two thirds of EFL and National League clubs are technically insolvent.

他们的负债超过了资产的账面价值。

Their liabilities exceed the book values of their assets.

29%的俱乐部撑不过三十天。

29% of clubs could not survive for more than thirty days.

有17家英冠和全国联赛俱乐部，就算不给球员发工资，也照样亏钱。

17 EFL and National League clubs would lose money even if they paid their players nothing.

英超和其他联赛之间的差距越来越大。

The gap between the Premier League and the rest keeps growing.

降落伞补贴正在扭曲竞争。

Parachute payments are distorting the competition.

英冠和全国联赛中有17家俱乐部，非球员成本超过了他们的全部收入。

17 clubs in the EFL and National League have non player costs that exceed their entire revenue.

他们想要改革收入分配，减少俱乐部亏损，加强金字塔底层的治理，让俱乐部财务更稳健，给球迷更多发言权，改善董事会多元化。

And, you know, they want reform revenue distribution, reduce club losses, strengthen the governance, lower down the pyramid, make clubs more financially resilient, give fans a greater voice, improve boardroom diversity.

你看。

Look.

这……

It...

我不知道你怎么看，尼克。

I don't know what you think, Nick.

比如，那个……

Like, the...

他们提出的东西很重要，但我觉得这周他们可能需要更吸引眼球一些。

What they've come out with is important, but it's not sort of, you know, in a week where I don't know if they needed to be more headline grabbing enough.

我只是在想，这会不会太八卦了。

I'm just trying to think about it too tabloidy.

我觉得有些数据挺……

I think some of those statistics are quite...

听上去确实挺惊人的，但我不确定有多少人会当真，因为我们都太关注自己支持的球队谁上场、谁会赢，而不是去想足球大家庭这种说法其实是个神话。

Actually quite wild when you listen to them, but I just don't know how many people are gonna take them seriously because we're all so costed in our team who's playing, who's gonna win rather than thinking about, you know, the football family is a kind of myth.

对。

No.

而且这也是个时机的问题。

And it's and it's it's a question of of timing as well.

就像你说的，曼城的故事当然盖过了很多事，但国际足联的事也一样。

As you say, like, the the Man City story, of course, is dwarfing a lot of things, but the FIFA story as well.

今天在苏黎世有个大型的国际足联理事会会议，因凡蒂诺在那儿跟人竖大拇指。

There's a big FIFA council meeting today in Zurich where where Infantino thumbs up to people.

所以很遗憾，那份报告有点被忽略了，但它的发现是……

So so sadly, the the report gets gets lost a little bit, but it's it's findings of...

我想我们大部分都预料到了，但内容相当严厉，也相当全面，揭示了金碧辉煌的精英阶层之下足球的现状。

I mean, I I guess we expect a lot of it, but pretty damning, pretty pretty comprehensive about the state of football beneath the gilded elite.

而且不幸的是，你看不到有多少改变会发生……

And, unfortunately, you can't see much being...

除非那些顶层的人，还有英超联赛的人，同意更公平地重新分配资金，但这感觉有点像白日梦。

Much changing unless those at the top and in the Premier League agree to to redistribute money a bit more fairly, which feels like a bit of a pipe dream.

所以，是的，背后的头条很重要，但它们似乎有点被忽略了。不过现在有了监管机构，希望我们能有一个机构和声音，更定期、更紧迫地传达这些事情，因为对很多俱乐部来说，情况确实很紧急。

So, yeah, it's very important headlines behind it, but they do seem to be getting lost a bit, at least with the regulator in place now, we should hopefully have a body and a voice to communicate these things a bit more regularly and and urgently as well because it is an it's an urgent situation for a lot of clubs.

这……

This...

足球的这种分层真的不能再这样继续下去了。

It it really can't continue the stratification of football in in the way it has.

这个问题我们可能已经说了十年、二十年了，大家可能觉得，好吧。

And this is something that we've probably been saying for ten, twenty years, and and people probably think, okay.

那有多少俱乐部倒闭了呢？

Well, how many clubs have gone under?

其实没那么多。

Not that many.

但情况确实在恶化。

But it's it's getting worse.

我有点后悔这么问，因为他们做的事情太重要了。

I sort of feel bad for phrasing the question like that because it's so important what they're doing.

这份工作对足球俱乐部的未来至关重要，他们需要大家的支持。

This job is so important for the future of football clubs, and they need people to be sort of supportive of them.

而且我想我们还不清楚他们到底有多大权力。

And I suppose what we don't know yet is how much power they have.

你知道吗？

You know?

这就是那个大问题，对吧？

And that is that is the the big question, isn't it?

我们不知道，除非我们知道，而我不知道，这很有可能。

And we don't know unless we do know and I don't know, which is which is highly possible.

不过，我们等有时间再详细聊。

But, look, we'll talk about it in more detail when we have a bit more time.

今天就先到这里吧。

But that will do for today.

谢谢大家。

Thank you, everybody.

谢谢你，尼基。

Thank you, Nicky.

谢谢。

Thanks.

谢谢，巴兹。

Thanks, Baz.

谢谢你。

Thank you.

干杯，尼克。

Cheers, Nick.

谢谢你，马克斯。

Thank you, Max.

《足球周刊》由我们在台风签约的地方制作。

Football Weekly is produced by where we sign on Typhoon.

执行制片人是乔尔·格罗夫。

The executive producer is Joel Grove.

我们周一再见。

We'll be back on Monday.

这里是《卫报》。

This is The Guardian.