Blockworks 收购 Messari

好了，兄弟。

Alright, buddy.

搭档。

Partner.

走吧。

Let's go.

重要的一天。

Big day.

重要的一天。

Big day.

特别的小组。

Special pod.

特别的小组。

Special pod.

我们已经安排你到纽约了。

And we got you in New York.

确实如此。

That's true.

对。

Yeah.

确实如此。

That's true.

我知道。

I know.

大城市。

Big city.

各种声音。

Lots of sounds.

现在我已经习惯了蒙大拿的生活方式。

Used to my Montana lifestyle now.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

迈克今天真是忙得够呛。

Very overwhelming day for Mike.

乡下人。

Country bumpkin.

挺刺激的。

Exciting.

希望大伙儿都看到了那个公告。

Well, hopefully, folks saw, the announcement.

希望我们在社交媒体上的声音够大，我们有个重磅消息：今天我们收购了Messari。

Hopefully, we're loud enough on social, but we have a big announcement, which is today we acquired Messari.

所以我们想花点时间聊聊现在这三件事，首先是，为什么选择Messari？

So we wanted to spend some time talking about, I think, three things right now, which is, one, why Messari?

加密领域里优秀的数据平台可不少。

There's a lot of great data platforms in crypto.

为什么Messari和Blockworks这么契合？

Why is Messari such a perfect fit for Blockworks?

第二点，我和Mike是怎么看待当前加密市场这个关键时刻的？

Number two, kinda what is I think maybe how how are Mike and I seeing, like, this moment in time right now in crypto?

我觉得现在加密市场挺有意思的。

I think it's a pretty interesting time in crypto.

可能是机构看涨，但加密代币看跌。

Maybe institutional bull, crypto token bear.

你觉得眼下发生的事会怎么发展？

How do we see what's happening right now playing out?

第三，Blockworks在这个过程中扮演什么角色？

And then maybe the third is where does Blockworks come into this?

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

Blockworks 这家公司今年已经第九年了。

Blockworks, this is year nine for the business.

我们变化很大。

We've evolved a lot.

没错。

What yeah.

我知道。

I know.

九年了。

Nine years.

我知道。

I know.

我头上都开始长白发了。

I've got some grays going on up here.

是啊，你也是。

You do.

确实有。

I do.

真的。

I do.

不太好。

It's not good.

得去找找那个……你知道的，四齿的，那个小梳子。

Gotta get the what's the, you know, four men, the little comb with the

咱们没必要把这变成什么 grooming 环节。

We don't need to make this a grooming episode.

行。

Alright.

好吧。

Fine.

行。

Fine.

好吧。

Alright.

那我们先来聊聊，为什么我要道歉。

So let's get into maybe let's start with why I'm sorry.

首先，

So first of all,

我觉得你和我都非常尊重 Messari。

I think you and I just have a ton of respect for Messari.

Blockworks 和 Messari 仿佛是相伴成长的，我觉得我们俩就像 Infinity Gauntlet 的两块不同部件。Messari 从第一天起就专注于提升投资者的透明度，推动加密货币领域基于基本面的决策。

Blockworks and Messari kind of grew up, I feel like opposite one another, and we were we kind of like had two different parts of the Infinity Gauntlet, which was Messari started from day one, focused on this mission of increasing transparency for investors and promoting fundamental based decision making in crypto.

Blockworks 也有同样的使命。

Blockworks has had that mission as well.

我们的使命是增强链上市场的信任。

Our mission is increasing trust in on chain markets.

我们最初更多是从媒体传播和投资者信息获取的角度切入，后来逐渐转向投资者关系。

We started a little bit more from the side of media distribution access to investors, and we've been moving into investor relations.

但Messari的使命和我们非常相似，我们对他们所做的一切充满敬意。

But Messari, it's just extremely that mission is extremely similar, and we have a ton of respect for what they've been doing.

当我们思考这个行业此刻最需要什么时，发现我们彼此高度互补，核心目标都是消除信息不对称，为投资者和机构提供可靠的信息，同时推动标准化数据和信息披露。

And as we think about what the industry needs at this particular moment in time, it's kind of a mix of being extremely complementary with one another and solving the core problem, which is eliminating information asymmetry, providing good information for investors and institutions, and then a focus on standardized data and disclosures.

所以对我们来说，这简直就像天作之合。

So really, it's kind of a match made in heaven, I think, for us.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你回过头去听，Messari是由Ryan和Dan创立的，后来把接力棒交给了Eric，现在由Duran负责运营。

Actually, if you go back and listen, so Messari was founded by two folks, Ryan and Dan, and then, you know, pass pass the torch to Eric and then now Duran has been running the company.

这四个人八年来始终专注于同一件事：为加密市场提供更优质的数据。

They've all been all all four of them have been singularly focused on one thing which is providing better data in crypto markets for eight years.

对吧？

Right?

事实上，他们进入加密数据领域比我们早得多。

And, actually they got into crypto data way before we did.

对吧？

Right?

我们是从信息传播的前端入手的，而他们是从底层的数据资产开始的。

We started more from the top of the funnel media distribution information for folks and they started with kind of the the hard assets.

对吧？

Right?

他们做的是定量数据，我们则更偏向定性分析。

The the the quantitative information whereas we started more qualitative.

他们可能是自下而上，我们是自上而下，但最后却走到了差不多的地方。

You know, they started maybe bottoms up, we started top down, and we've ended at a very similar place.

所以我觉得，我们其实一直都在观察，是的。

And so I think we've just seen yeah.

你看。

Look.

他们既是我们的竞争对手，也是我们敬重的对手，我们曾经在项目上赢过他们。

They've been our our rival and our you know, we've competed against them and we've won deals against them.

我们也从他们手里输掉过一些单子。

We've lost deals against them.

我觉得你说得没错。

And, I think the I think you said it right.

我们对他们所做的事情非常敬佩

We have an enormous amount of respect

他们所取得的成就。

for what they've been doing.

确实如此。

Yeah.

你得帮我找个体育方面的比喻。

You you gotta help me out with the sports analogy here.

哪两位运动员是备受尊敬的？

But who are two respected athletes?

说到漫威的那个类比，我知道。

The Marvel analogy with the I know.

懂吗？

Know?

Mike是电影圈的人。

Mike's the movie guy.

我是体育圈的。

I'm the sports guy.

所以他听起来没那么……

So he's not not coming off very

这档播客已经很酷了。

cool on this podcast already.

不是。

No.

那我们来聊聊Messari在产品决策上做的选择吧。对。

So maybe let's talk about the the the product decisions that Messari Yeah.

做出的选择。

Chose.

是的。

Yeah.

因为我觉得我们俩都涉足了加密数据，但可能切入点不一样。

Because I think we we both attacked crypto data, but we we attacked it maybe from one direction.

他们是从另一个角度切入的。

They attacked it from the other.

明白了。

Okay.

我来简单讲讲Blockworks的背景和我们的策略。

So here's a little bit of a history lesson too on Blockworks and our strategy.

Blockworks一直坚持从非常狭窄的使用场景或细分领域入手，把它当作突破口，然后再逐步扩展。

Blockworks has always been focused on we really like to start with a very narrow, use case or niche, use it as a beachhead, and then expand out from there.

我们刚开始的时候，作为一家媒体公司，先搭建了传播渠道和受众基础。

So when we started, obviously, as a media business, we kind of built the distribution and audience first.

后来当我们考虑做研究时，就观察了整个行业，注意到了Messari。

And then when we thought about research, we actually we looked at the scene and we actually saw Messari.

Messari 当时在做一件事，就是想打造一个加密世界的彭博社，这意味着你得做个数据聚合平台。

Messari was building you know, they had started building this Bloomberg for crypto, which means you need you need to be an aggregator.

你得把各种类型的数据都收齐。

You need to have all of these different types of data.

所以他们走的是广度路线，可能在深度上就稍微牺牲了一点。

So they went very broad at the potential, maybe sacrificing a little bit on the depth side of things.

我们则决定走相反的路。

We decided to counter position.

就像银行里的股票研究团队一样，我们人不多，但每个人只专注几个项目，比如你负责借贷领域，那就只盯 Aave、Morpho 这些。

So we started we in the same way that you might set up an equity research shop at a bank, we had a smaller number of analysts, but they only covered, if you you were in a lending, you did Aave, Morpho, etcetera.

我们选的是极致深度。

So we went very, very, very deep.

刚开始做数据业务时，我们只聚焦链上数据，对所覆盖的协议挖得特别深。

And when we started into the data space, we focused only in on chain data, and we went really deep on the protocols that we covered.

但过去几年，为了拓展产品线、更好地服务投资者、给机构提供更多数据，我们意识到需要更广的数据覆盖，而在这方面，Messari 确实比谁都早开始。

Over the over the last couple of years though, in order to expand our product offering, do better on investor relations, provide more data for investors and institutions, we've recognized the need for a greater breadth of data and Messari has been doing this longer than anyone.

他们的数据仓库和数据集是整个行业里最顶尖、最全面的之一。

They have one of the best, data warehouses, most comprehensive data sets in the entire industry.

从产品互补的角度来看，这跟我们的需求完美契合。

So from a product complementarity standpoint, it really, really matches up for us.

没错。

Yeah.

咱们再具体说说数据覆盖的广度，因为很多人其实低估了Messari数据的覆盖面有多广。

To get more specific on just the breadth, because I think people don't people underestimate just the breadth of Messari's data.

他们覆盖了四万个资产。

They they cover 40,000 assets.

他们的API可能是加密货币领域最强的数据接口。

Their API, it's probably the strongest API in the industry for crypto data.

对吧？

Right?

它涵盖了资产、市场、交易所信息、新闻、链上事件、链下事件、研究报告、稳定币、协议数据、网络数据、代币解锁、融资动态、社交情绪、事件监控、关注列表，还有更多内容。

It's got, you know, data for assets, markets, exchange information, news, on chain events, off chain events, research, stablecoins, protocol data, network data, token unlocks, fundraising, social sentiment, event monitoring, watch list, and a whole bunch more.

过去几年，Messari 最主要的客户其实一直是投资者。

So what's happened over the last couple of years for Messari is actually their, you know, their their best customer for many years was the investor.

对吧？

Right?

可能是加密基金，也可能是传统五巨头开始进军加密领域。

Maybe it's a crypto fund or maybe it's a trad five fund getting into crypto.

他们做得非常出色，我们对他们在过去两年里成功拓展企业市场感到十分印象深刻。

They've done extremely well, and I think we've been very impressed by how well they've been able to do it over the last two years is push into the Enterprise.

我本来想说，这一点是……

Well, I I was gonna say this is something that

我们内部也感受到这一点，Messari 的战略也体现了这一点，他们在拓展企业客户方面做得非常好。

I I think we have felt internally, and Messari's strategies reflected this as well, which Messari's done a really good job of expanding more into the Enterprise.

所以这一点值得我们聊聊，我们现在具体处于什么阶段。

So this is something that we should talk about about where are we at this particular moment in time.

比如，加密领域现在正在发生什么？

Like, what is happening in crypto?

人们总在说机构牛市和代币熊市并存的现象。

You know, people talk about the idea of, like, an institutional bull market, but a bear market for tokens.

咱们先别纠结这些术语，看看眼下到底怎么回事。

Let's abstract away from some of this language, the current moment.

想象一下2037年，我们刚进入这个领域的时候，大家都在谈论一场前所未有的创意大爆发。

Peep in 2037, when we're first getting into this space, people talked about this Cambrian explosion of different ideas.

这些年各种实验都试过了，大量资金也投进来了，现在快十年了，我们终于开始看清哪些东西真正行得通，哪些还没成功。

We've had a bunch of different experiments run, a bunch of capital poured in, and now almost ten years later, we're figuring out what stuff worked and what stuff hasn't worked, at least hasn't worked yet.

加密领域最重要的趋势，就是资产代币化。

The most important trend within crypto is tokenizing assets.

比如用稳定币、现实世界资产这些形式把美元引入链上，重新构建基于区块链的资本市场。

So bringing on dollars in the form of stablecoins, RWAs, etcetera, and rebuilding capital markets on chain.

这对金融科技公司、加密交易所和银行来说，都是巨大的机会。

That means a huge opportunity for fintechs, crypto exchanges, banks.

它们得把现有的基础设施逐步迁移到这些新系统上来。

They need to move a bunch of their existing infrastructure onto these rails.

这正是现在加密领域正在发生的事。

That is what's happening in crypto right now.

问题就在这儿。

Here is the problem.

加密行业一直习惯了做边缘的、非主流的、不受监管的行业。

So crypto is used to being a fringe outsider unregulated kind of industry.

这确实对创新很有帮助。

That's been really good for innovation.

但这个问题已经不再是关键了。

That is no longer the problem.

我们知道该建什么了。

We know what we need to build.

现在我们需要调整几件事。

Now we need to change a couple of things.

第一，我们需要的是扩展能力，而不是一味追求天马行空的想法。

One, we need scaling as opposed to very far out of the box thinking.

但我们这个行业也需要成熟起来。

But we also we need to grow up as an industry.

过去人们总在讨论，我们到底需不需要监管？

And, you know, people used to talk about, do we need to be regulated?

还是说不需要监管？

Do we not need to be regulated?

答案非常明确：我们确实需要监管，光靠行业自己解决所有问题，到目前为止根本行不通。

The answer is very clear that we do need we do need regulation, and we do need just leaving it up to the industry to solve all these problems has not worked thus far.

今年发生的一个重大变化是，我们已经推出了Genius。

So one of the big changes that's happening this year, we've already had Genius.

Clarity项目也在推进中，而且已经进入后期阶段。

Clarity is in the works and in pretty late stages.

但我们还得解决一些问题，这些问题过去人们觉得只是锦上添花的披露要求。

But we we need to solve some stuff that I think people felt were nice to have disclosures.

对吧？

Right?

说到这儿，就我个人而言，把视角拉远一点看，我根本不敢买那些我不确定数据是不是靠激励活动刷出来的代币，毕竟它们很可能暴跌九成。

At this point, even just speaking personally, like zooming out, I'm not buying any tokens that I don't know if their metrics are actually coming from incentive campaigns and the token's gonna dump 90%.

现在我真的什么都信不过，哪怕是在直播里看到的情况也一样。

It right now I just can't trust anything even when I do see it on stream.

确实。

Yeah.

这么说吧

Let put

换个说法。

that in different terms.

给这个行业做风险评估很难。

It's hard to underwrite the industry.

如果你是交易所，考虑上线某个代币，那评估它的风险就很困难。

If you're an exchange thinking about listing a token, it's hard to underwrite it.

如果你是投资者，打算买某个代币，评估它的风险也很困难。

If you're an investor thinking about buying a token, it's hard to underwrite it.

如果你是监管机构，看着一个代币，确实如此。

If you're a regulator, right, and you're looking at a token Yeah.

或者你观察链上市场，整个领域都很难评估价值。

Or you're looking at on chain markets, it's just hard to underwrite the whole space.

明白了。

Alright.

那么，我们现在处于什么阶段？

So where are we at this moment in time?

首先，我们聊聊哪些方面是有效的，再谈谈哪些地方出了问题。

First of all, let's talk about what's working and then let's talk about what's broken.

回想2017年，你我刚进入这个行业的时候，人们称之为寒武纪大爆发，过去将近十年，情况确实如此。

So back in 2017 when you and I were getting in this into this industry, people talked about it as a Cambrian explosion, and that's largely what we've seen for the last almost decade.

大家尝试了各种各样的方向，如今快十年过去了，我们基本有了答案。

People tried a bunch of different stuff, and now almost ten years later, we basically have our answer.

眼下真正奏效的，是代币化，把传统金融里各种资产搬到链上。

The thing that is working at this moment in time is tokenization and bringing all of these different assets that exist in TradFi on chain.

以稳定币、国债等形式的美元，还有更复杂一些的债券和股票现在都上链了。

Dollars in the form of stable coins, treasuries, more esoteric, you

你知道的，像债券和股票这类资产现在也都上链了。

know, kind of bonds and Stocks now pre Stocks?

对。

Yeah.

所有这些资产都在往链上迁移，会带来巨大的机会，吸引大量投资者入场。

So all of that stuff is moving on chain, and it's going to create a huge amount of opportunity and onboard investors.

这些东西都挺好的。

All that stuff is great.

这就是目前有效的一部分。

So that's what's working.

但也有行不通的地方。

Here's what's not working.

人们对这些市场已经不再信任了。

People do not trust these markets anymore.

我现在根本不信这些市场了。

I don't trust these markets anymore.

我们看到的这些，真让人难以置信。

It's hard to believe what we're seeing.

而真正出问题的，是这一点。

And and here's the part that's been broken.

这也正是我们特别特别期待引入 Messari 的原因，因为他们从一开始就有这个使命。

And it's part of why we're really, really excited to onboard Messari because they've had this mission from the very beginning.

其中一部分就是统一数据标准。

Part of this is standardizing data.

对吧？

Right?

到现在，创始人还经常把收入虚报十倍。

So we are still at a point where founders will regularly post revenue, which is overstated by 10 x.

这太离谱了。

That is crazy.

这不好。

It's not good.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的很严重，以前我们还只是当笑话看。

That's really and, you know, we used to just kinda laugh it off.

这很重要。

It matters.

对。

Yeah.

这很重要。

It matters.

是的。

Yeah.

其实我本该从这里说起，关键在于，加密货币过去一直有个心腹大患。

And here's the reason actually what I should have started with, the reason it matters is crypto used to have a boogeyman.

以前我们总能说，加里·詹斯勒是冲着我们来的，诸如此类的话。

We used to be able to say Gary Gensler is out to get us or yada yada.

根本没什么妖魔鬼怪，朋友们。

There's no boogeyman, guys.

我们只是在不断输掉。

We're just losing.

我们没推出什么让人想买的有竞争力的资产。

We haven't produced competitive assets that people wanna buy.

所以我们每个人都该有很强的动力。

So we should all be really incentivized.

我们都应该真正重视这件事。

We all should really care about this.

但问题其实有好几层。

But here here's the here are the layers to the problem.

其中一层就是标准化的数据。

One part is just standardized data.

这个是我们一直在做的，Messari 也在做，等 Blockworks 深度和 Messari 广度结合起来，情况会好很多。

This is something that we've been building, Messari has been building, and this is gonna get a lot better with the the depth of Blockworks and the breadth of Messari.

第一点，就是大家都能认同的标准化数据和会计体系。

So one is just standardized data and accounting that everyone agrees on.

但还有一件事，其实对建立信任更根本，那就是信息披露。

Here's the other thing though that's actually more foundational to trust is disclosures.

现在呢，就算你对链上数据或者市场数据了如指掌，还是会看到一些从来没听说过的项目，交易量突然暴涨十倍。

So right now, even if you had perfect insight into, let's say, on chain data or markets data, you see some, you know, decentral like decks that you've never heard of and the volume is pumping 10 x.

这真的是因为他们的产品真的做成了吗？

Is that because they've actually nailed something on the product?

但在加密货币里，更可能的情况是，他们在搞激励活动，等一下就要暴跌了。

Or much more likely in crypto, is it that they're running some incentive campaign and everything's gonna dump?

顺便说一句，激励活动本身完全是个正当的策略。

By the way, incentive campaigns are a perfectly legitimate strategy.

关键是你得把这事公开说出来。

You should just have to disclose this stuff.

因为现在的情况是，如果我没参与这些拉升操作，我就完全不信任它。

Because the net effect of it is right now, if I'm not involved in playing these pump, I just don't trust it.

如果我们俩都不信这些东西，那别人也不会信。

And if and if you and I don't trust this stuff, then no one else is gonna trust this stuff either.

所以我们真正需要的，是一套透明披露机制。

So what we really need is a set of disclosures.

这种行为是可以接受的。

Act this activity is okay.

搞激励活动是可以接受的。

Running an incentive campaign is okay.

内部人士抛售也是可以接受的。

Insider selling is okay.

你只需要把情况说清楚就行。

You should just have to disclose.

对。

Yeah.

让市场自己去判断。

And let the market decide.

让市场自己去判断。

And let the market decide.

对。

Yeah.

顺便说一下，传统金融就是这么运作的。

So Which, by the way, is how it works in TradFi.

你实际上可以往申报文件里放任何你想放的东西。

You can actually put kind of whatever you want in the s one.

你的业务里可以做些疯狂的事。

You can do crazy stuff in your business.

你的业务里或许有些不太妥当的做法，但只要你把它们写进申报文件里就行。

You can do some maybe not so great stuff in your business, you but you just have to put it in your s one and

然后让市场自己去判断。

you let the market decide.

没错。

Exactly.

好的。

Okay.

要解决这个问题，我们需要一个信息披露层。

So the layers to this that we need to fix the problem are we need a disclosure layer.

对吧？

Right?

这正是我们正在用TTF构建的内容。

So that's and that's what we're building with the TTF.

但最终，这还是会落到TTF身上。

So but eventually it's gonna be the TTF.

我们对链上股票、现实资产等所有这些新上链的资产也会采取同样的做法——如果你是发行方，就必须提供一套标准化的信息披露，才能避免不良行为。

We're gonna do the same thing for on chain stocks, RWAs, but all of these assets that are coming on chain, if you're an issuer, you should have to make standard sets of disclosures just to avoid bad behavior.

接下来是数据的标准化层。

The next is a standardized layer of data.

现在，我觉得大家还没意识到这一点。

Right now, I don't think people are aware of this.

这里面的灵活性很大，就像会计领域里人们对协议收入、利润率这些术语的描述方式一样。

There's a huge amount of flexibility, just like there is in accounting of how people describe things like protocol revenue, margin, etcetera.

会计领域本来就有一定的弹性，但还是应该有统一标准。

There's a degree of flexibility in accounting always, but there should be standards.

你不应该能这么做。

You should not be able to.

事实上，如果你是上市公司的CEO，公开虚报收入，那是犯罪行为。

In fact, if you were a public company CEO, you overstated your revenue publicly, that is that's criminal.

这种事是绝对不允许的。

You can't do that.

在加密领域，我们也不该允许这种事发生。

And we should not accept that you can do that in crypto either.

所以，必须建立统一的数据标准。

So there should be standardized data.

接下来，我们真正感兴趣的是在市场端做些改进，帮助交易所和想进入加密领域的金融机构更好地融入进来。

And then really, the the layer that I think we're excited to move into as well is making things better on the market side for things like exchanges, financial institutions that want to onboard into crypto.

现在的情况，就像是一个接缝。

Right now, can think of it like a seam.

对吧？

Right?

链上的部分已经做得不错了，但传统金融那一块还是独立的。

You kind of have everything on chain that works pretty well together, and then you kind of have the TradFi l one.

传统金融方面其实很希望把加密技术当作后台来整合使用。

And the TradFi l one is very interested in merging or using crypto as a back end.

但合规、监控、与监管机构对接、对各类资产做尽职调查，这些工作量巨大，这正是我们正在构建的三层架构。

But there's a ton of stuff like compliance, monitoring, integrating with policymakers, all that stuff, diligencing different types of assets, and that's so that's kind of the three layer cake that we're building.

信息披露、标准化数据，以及与金融机构合作实现合规、监控和尽职调查。

Disclosures, standardized data, working with financial institutions to comply, monitor, diligence

对。

Yeah.

所有这些，我不只是说金融机构。

All of that I wouldn't just say financial institutions too.

我觉得现在正在发生的是这样。

I think there's a what's happening right now is okay.

加密货币最成功的应用场景，就是我们在链上重建资本市场。

The winning use case of crypto is we are rebuilding capital markets on chain.

没错。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

我认为迈克、我，还有Blockworks团队都坚信，股票、债券、货币、商品，还有代币，都会在公有链上被重新构建。

And I think something that Mike and I and all of Blockworks really strongly believes is that stocks, bonds, currencies, commodities, and, you know, we also believe in tokens are gonna get rebuilt on public blockchains.

如果真发生了，那肯定会有大量企业跟着重建，把整个业务搬到链上运行。

And if that happens, you have to say there's gonna be all of these businesses that get rebuilt and do run their business on chain.

所以很明显，第一类就是原生的加密原住民。

So obviously, the first bucket here were the crypto native folks.

Uniswap、Aave、Morpho、Solana、Ethereum，对吧？

Uniswap, Aave, Morpho, Solana, Ethereum, right?

既有原生加密项目，也有Stripe这样的公司。

Have the crypto native, but you also have Stripe, right?

还有BlackRock、Robinhood，还有监管机构，比如SEC和CFTC，成千上万家企业现在都在尝试链上运营。

You have BlackRock, you have Robinhood, you have the regulators, the SEC, the CFTC, you have all these folks, have thousands of companies that are now starting to do things on chain.

我们从他们那里听到的是，他们想在链上做事，但处处受阻。

What we hear from them is that all of their their ability to do thing on things on chain is blocked.

原因在于没法监控资产，没法追踪链上用户，也没法真正理解链上运行时的财务状况。

It's blocked by the inability to monitor the assets, an inability to track their users on Chain, an inability to actually understand their financials when they run things on Chain.

所以我觉得，Blockworks第三层架构要解决的，就是这个问题。

And so I think if you think about our third layer of the stack for Blockworks that's what we're trying to solve.

比如交易所可能想开发智能代理，而这些代理需要底层数据支持。

We're building an, you know, an Exchange might want to build agents, the agent needs underlying data.

交易所需要监控自己上架的资产，这就是他们的核心需求。

An ex an exchange might need to monitor the assets that they list on the exchange, that's what they need.

监管机构需要进行监控。

The regulators need to monitor.

这些功能都可以实现，但都依赖于底层数据。

All those things can be built but they rely on this underlying data.

对。

Yeah.

我们觉得可以这么看：当前加密领域最迫切的需求是什么？

The way that we think about it is you kind of divide the world up or the the opportunity set up here into what does crypto actually need right now, right?

主要是八二法则下的信息披露、标准化数据，以及现实资产的接入。

There's kind of just eighty twenty disclosures, standardized data, onboarding RWAs.

未来真正令人兴奋的场景，显然是人工智能，这是迄今为止最具变革性的技术浪潮之一。

In the future state where this gets really exciting is obviously AI is one of the most transformative, you know, technology waves that we've ever seen.

当链上加密数据和人工智能结合时，人们过去的一个误解是，以为我们会颠覆金融体系，其实我们是要让金融运作得更好。

And when you combine on chain crypto data and AI, what you actually I think one of the mental models that people got wrong is that we were gonna blow up finance instead of making finance just work way better.

我可以从投资者关系的角度给你举个例子，说明这会意味着什么。

So I can give you an example of what that could mean from an investor relations standpoint.

现在如果你要分析一家上市公司，你会觉得，嗯，信息披露挺透明的。

So right now, if you are trying to diligence a public company, you'd say, oh, there's really good transparency.

你可以去他们的官网，找投资者关系板块，随便查任何一份10-K报告，或者他们上市以来历年的季报。

I can go to their website, their IR section of their site, and I can look at any 10 k, you know, their quarterly results for the last however many years they've been public.

但其实理想状态应该是，所有这些数据都实时上链，随时都能调用。

But really what that should look like is all of that data should be streamed live, should be on chain data that you can just hit whenever.

再用大语言模型，直接问它你想知道的任何问题就行。

And using LLMs, should just be able to ask it any question that you want.

我以前是分析师，太懂那种痛苦了——得把不同季报里的脚注一一对应，再手动整理到Excel里。

Instead of, you know, I used to be an analyst, so I know the pain of, like, trying to match up different footnotes from different 10 Qs, get them all to match, put it in your Excel spreadsheet.

未来投资者关系该是这样的：一个能轻松查询、随时回答分析师任何问题的数据集。

You know, really what investor relations should be in the future is, you know, a dataset that you can query super easily, answer any question that an analyst possibly might want.

然后把这些数据实时推送出来，再结合社交媒体这些渠道传播。

And then, you know, you stream that live and leverage social media, things like that.

另外，如果你想想我们正在Morpho上用BALTs重建货币市场基金这件事，

You know, in addition to, if you think about something like, we're kind of rebuilding money market funds on Morpho with BALTs.

现在你得去找信用评级机构，让他们给这些资产打分，对吧？虽然货币市场基金可能不需要，但如果你在发债券之类的时候，确实需要。

Right now, you'd have to go to someone like a credit ratings agency, right, to, like, score those different I mean, maybe maybe not for money market fund, but if you're doing like a bond issuance or something like that.

如果所有这些信息都上链了，你做了披露，也保证了信息的真实性，

If all that information just lived on chain, you know, you rep you did your disclosures, you represented that all the information was real.

LLM完全没必要搞得像什么高深的黑科技，这事儿其实很简单。

An LLM should be able to not rocket science that people are doing.

成本能降到十分之一，还能瞬间完成评分。

That should be able to get scored at 10% of the cost instantly.

我觉得大家还没完全建立起这样的思维模式。

So I think that's the mental model that people didn't fully have.

对吧？

Right?

我们搞了这么多看起来像古怪协议的东西，好像在彻底颠覆一切。

We built all these things that feel like weird protocols, we're changing everything.

我觉得现在加密货币正在经历一场观念转变，我们逐渐意识到，其实我们只是让现有的金融体系运行得更高效了。

I I think right now, part of the ideological shift that crypto is going through is what we're what we're realizing is that we're actually making the existing finance just stack, just operate way, way better.

这就是机会所在。

And that's what the opportunity is.

我觉得还会有一些金融机构进来，它们本身业务就很强，会积极拥抱加密技术，创造大量股东价值。

And I also if I think there'll be some financial firms that come in and they've got a lot of you know, they've got great businesses and they're gonna innovate and leverage crypto and generate a lot of shareholder value.

如果你过去八年一直在做加密领域，那现在对很多传统机构来说，这将是巨大的冲击。

I would also I think that if you've been building crypto for the last eight years, this is gonna be highly disruptive to many of these firms as well.

我不觉得银行一定会进来掌控一切，把所有价值都拿走。

And I don't think it's some foregone conclusion that banks are gonna come in here and run everyone's show and, you know, generate all the value.

现在正是初创公司入场、抢占这些流程的好时机。

There's a ton of opportunity for startups right now to come in and win some of these processes.

看看整个资本市场生态里的各种参与者就知道了。

Like, just look at the entire ecosystem of capital markets, all the different players.

有些机构能顺利转型。

Some of these will make great transitions.

但也有一些会被彻底颠覆。

Some of them are gonna get disrupted here.

这就是我们的看法。

And that's our view.

对吧？

Right?

这就是我们想要赢得的市场。

That's the market that we're playing to win.

是的。

Yeah.

我同意。

I agree.

当你想想Blockworks未来的业务模式，确实如此。

When you think about what Blockworks' business looks like Yeah.

在未来几年里。

Over the next couple of years.

因为说起来有点意思。

Because, you know, it's funny.

这是Blockworks成立的第九年了。

So this is year nine of Blockworks.

我已经做了八年半了。

Been doing this for eight and a half years.

公司是2017年12月开始的。

Started December December twenty seventeen.

是的。

Yeah.

很多人一开始把我们当成一家媒体和活动公司。

I think a lot of people knew us as a media and events business.

后来我们进入了数据领域，差不多四年了，一直在做数据相关的东西。

Got into data, know, been building in the data space for, you know, about four years now.

很多人现在都觉得，你们的数据确实做得不错。

And I think a lot of people are kind of like, alright, you guys put out great data.

你们的仪表盘我经常看。

I see your dashboards.

我用你们的 API。

I use your API.

对。

Yeah.

但可能很多人还不清楚 Blockworks 究竟是做什么的。

But maybe they haven't actually heard what Blockworks' business is.

是的。

Yep.

我们的客户是谁，产品又是什么。

Who our customers are and what the products are.

是的。

Yep.

要不你先简单介绍一下，我再接着补充？

Maybe if you wanna walk through that as a first stab and then I can jump on too.

好。

Yeah.

Blockworks 从一家媒体公司转型成了数据公司，而 Messari 正是这一演变的最终成果。

So Blockworks has transitioned from and Messari is kind of the capstone and completion of this evolution, but we transitioned from a media business to a data business.

我们主要提供三项服务：信息披露、标准化数据，还有为金融机构开发一些具体的工作流程，比如监控、尽职调查，以及向这些机构提供数据服务。

So the three, you know, the three primary services that we have are, again, disclosures, standardized data, and then we're focused on a couple of workflows within financial institutions like monitoring, diligence, and piping in data, like selling data to these these institutions.

也许顺便说一下我们的客户是谁，以及我们为他们做什么，会更有帮助。

And maybe it would be helpful as well to think of kind of who our customers are and what we do for them.

如果你是代币发行方，我们能帮你做两件事。

So if you are a token issuer, we help you with two things.

我们帮你做好投资者关系。

We help you do investor relations.

我们打造详尽的数据集，同时帮你对接投资者。

We create very comprehensive data sets, and we help connect you to investors.

我们还帮你处理信息披露。

And we also help you with disclosures.

我们有一套 TTF 框架，你可以用它来披露所有相关信息，接下来我们会把它产品化，让你以后更容易使用，并把信息提交给美国的相关监管机构。

So we have a TTF framework that you can use to disclose all this stuff, and we're gonna help productize that so it's easier for you guys to do in the future and submit your information to the relevant regulatory agencies in The US.