Forward Guidance - AI放松正在推动历史性市场轮动 | 每周回顾 封面

AI放松正在推动历史性市场轮动 | 每周回顾

The AI Unwind Is Forcing A Historic Market Rotation | Weekly Roundup

本集简介

市场最拥挤的交易开始出现裂痕,但后续影响将蔓延至何处仍不明确。 本周,我们深入剖析AI交易中的剧烈动能回撤与日益加剧的压力。 我们探讨了杠杆ETF的破坏、韩国散户的清算、潜在的价值复苏、伊朗石油风险的再度上升,以及为何昆恩在正确的地方看多房地产。敬请收听! 时间戳: 00:00 引言 02:01 动量交易瓦解 06:22 杠杆ETF正在破坏市场 12:07 AI繁荣已达极限? 16:05 低成本模型对AI交易构成威胁 19:52 超大规模云服务商面临信贷紧缩 23:27 美联储前瞻指引的失败 29:38 全球套利交易风险? 35:29 价值投资能否最终胜出? 40:44 伊朗重燃石油风险 48:00 住房政策 vs 财产权 关注本节目: › Forward Guidance – https://x.com/ForwardGuidance › Felix – https://x.com/fejau_inc › 昆恩 – https://x.com/qthomp › 泰勒 – https://x.com/Tyler_Neville › Telegram – https://t.me/+CAoZQpC-i6BjYTEx › Blockworks – https://x.com/Blockworks 资源: › 每周回顾图表 – https://drive.google.com/file/d/17yRksHxeO19PfW6MOCrzT_OpEwicKuog/view?usp=drive_link 活动: › 参加2026年亚洲数字资产峰会(10月7日)与2026年伦敦数字资产峰会(11月10-11日) https://blockworks.com/events 免责声明: Forward Guidance节目中所述内容不构成任何购买或出售证券或代币的建议。本播客仅用于信息目的,所表达的任何观点均为意见,而非财务建议。主持人和嘉宾可能持有节目中讨论的公司、基金或项目的头寸。

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Speaker 0

关于前瞻性指引的任何发言,都不构成买卖任何投资或产品的建议。

Nothing said on Forward Guidance is a recommendation to buy or sell any investments or products.

Speaker 0

本播客仅用于信息分享,节目中任何人的观点仅代表其个人意见,并非财务建议,也不一定代表Blockworks的立场。

This podcast is for informational purposes only, and the views expressed by anyone on the show are solely their opinions, not financial advice, or necessarily the views of Blockworks.

Speaker 0

我们的主持人、嘉宾以及Blockworks团队可能持有节目中讨论的公司基金或项目头寸。

Our hosts, guests, and the Blockworks team may hold positions in the company's funds or projects discussed.

Speaker 0

一如既往,投资区块链技术存在风险,具体条款和条件适用。

As always, investments in blockchain technology involve risk, terms, conditions apply.

Speaker 0

请自行做足研究。

Do your own research.

Speaker 0

好的。

Alright.

Speaker 0

大家最近怎么样?

What's going on, everybody?

Speaker 0

欢迎回来,继续收听《指引回顾》特别版。

Welcome back to another episode for Guidance Roundup Edition.

Speaker 0

很高兴大家又聚在一起了。

Good to have the crew back together.

Speaker 0

我们上周确实没排好时间,所以上期没录。

We, yeah, couldn't quite make the scheduling work last week, so we're off last week.

Speaker 0

再之前那周,泰勒还喊了第四次。

And then Tyler yelled the previous week for the fourth.

Speaker 0

现在整个团队终于凑齐了。

So whole crew back together.

Speaker 0

我们这就开始了。

Here we are.

Speaker 0

大家最近怎么样?

What's going on, guys?

Speaker 1

天气真热啊。

It's quite summer.

Speaker 1

你呢?

You.

Speaker 1

真想你们啊,兄弟。

Missed you guys, man.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

我也是。

Likewise.

Speaker 2

最近忙什么呢?

What's cooking?

Speaker 2

你后来还去看足球赛了吗?

How was, did you go to any more soccer games?

Speaker 0

没有。

No.

Speaker 0

一场足球赛都没去看,这礼拜我在足球这事上真是接连碰壁。

No soccer games, and it's just been just been heartbreak for me in that world over the last week.

Speaker 0

法国队没挺过去。

France France didn't make it.

Speaker 0

英格兰也没能晋级。

England didn't make it.

Speaker 0

加拿大也没能晋级。

Canada didn't make it.

Speaker 0

所以啊。

So

Speaker 2

是啊。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

阿根廷、西班牙,这些队伍倒是进了。

Argentina, Spain, it's yeah.

Speaker 0

我的意思呢,决赛肯定精彩,但可惜,我支持的队全都没进。

I mean, it'll be a good final, but, yeah, none none of my teams made it.

Speaker 2

你听说了吗?门票一张三万美元左右?

You see there was $30,000 per ticket or something?

Speaker 1

天啊。

Wow.

Speaker 1

你听说了吗?

Have you heard that?

Speaker 1

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

在那儿欢呼呢。

Was cheering.

Speaker 1

我本来盼着阿根廷对西班牙的决赛,所以现在特别开心。

I was hoping for Argentina, Spain final, so I'm I'm pretty chuffed.

Speaker 2

真不错。

Nice.

Speaker 0

瞧瞧,就是这样。

There you go.

Speaker 0

是啊。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

不好意思。

Sorry.

Speaker 0

就是一个随大流的人罢了。

Just a messy bandwagoner.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,他只是……

I mean, he's just

Speaker 0

不是的。

No.

Speaker 0

他这个人真的很了不起。

He's dude, he's he's amazing.

Speaker 0

他们完全做到了。

Like, they fully.

Speaker 1

西班牙。

Spain.

Speaker 1

西班牙确实把法国打得毫无还手之力。

Like, yeah, Spain made France look the worst.

Speaker 1

他们看起来就像第三级球队一样。

They like they looked like D3.

Speaker 1

法国队也让其他所有队伍显得像那样。

I mean, and France made everybody else look like that.

Speaker 1

确实如此。

It was.

Speaker 1

这几场比赛真是太精彩了。

It's been some awesome games.

Speaker 1

对啊。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

这就像菲利克斯每周都对你做的那样,兄弟。

Kind of what Felix does to you every week, dude.

Speaker 2

好吧,

Okay,

Speaker 0

各位。

guys.

Speaker 0

咱们来聊聊市场吧。

Let's talk about markets.

Speaker 0

确实有。

There is yeah.

Speaker 0

这个夏天可不平静。

It's not a quiet summer.

Speaker 0

我本来以为会是平淡无奇的夏天。

Definitely, I thought it was gonna be the doldrum summer.

Speaker 0

但这根本不是平淡的夏天。

It is not the doldrum summer.

Speaker 0

现在各种市场轮动、结构调整、平仓潮,所有能想到的因素全凑一块儿了。

We are having the the mother of all factored rotation, market structure, unwinds, everything in the kitchen sink going on.

Speaker 0

没错。

Yes.

Speaker 0

首先,我想看看这些轮动到底有多剧烈。

To start, I wanna look at just how severe these rotations have been.

Speaker 0

这是一个很棒的免费网站,叫 Factor Watch。

So this is it's a great free website, Factor Watch.

Speaker 0

你可以直接看看各个因子的轮动情况。

You can just look at the different factor rotations.

Speaker 0

比如过去这段时间,你就能看出来。

So you can just see like over the past yeah.

Speaker 0

过去二十天里,动量因子的回撤幅度达到了2.3个标准差。

Over the past twenty days, like Momentum has had like a 2.3 standard deviation unwind.

Speaker 0

而最近三天更是剧烈,达到了3.3个标准差。

And then even more aggressive, yeah, last three days, 3.3 standard deviation.

Speaker 0

与此同时,市场却在稳步转向价值型标的,动量因子全面撤退。

So just like a total high beta momentum unwind at the same time that you have seen some some pretty steady rotations into more value plays.

Speaker 0

今天我刚看了下相关图表。

Like, I was looking at the the charts today.

Speaker 0

QQQ下跌了近2%,而等权重标普500却上涨了将近1%。

QQQ is down almost 2% while equal weight S and P is up almost a percent.

Speaker 0

确实,这里面有太多东西值得深入分析了。

So, yeah, man, there's a lot to dive in here.

Speaker 0

谁来带头说说你对这个的看法?

Who wants to take the lead here on how you're thinking about it?

Speaker 0

现在情况怎么样?

What's going on?

Speaker 0

泰勒,你手里肯定有不错的图表吧。

Tyler, you probably have some sweet charts.

Speaker 0

你心里是怎么想的?

What's what are you thinking?

Speaker 2

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

我不想说得太早,但不妨现在聊聊。

I don't wanna get too too early, but we might as well.

Speaker 2

我们翻到第35页,聊聊摩根士丹利的情况吧。

Let's, go to go to slide 35, and we'll we'll talk just about you know, think Morgan Stanley.

Speaker 2

这个数据大家可能都听过了,但这次 Momentum 的抛售是27年来最严重的。

Everyone's heard this stat by now, but this has been the worst momentum sell off in twenty seven years.

Speaker 2

这基本上量化了相对于去年的标准差,具体是多少我也说不准。

And this just kinda quantifies the standard deviations relative to last I don't know.

Speaker 2

这是什么?

What is this?

Speaker 2

回到2007年。

Back to 2007.

Speaker 2

你可以看到下面图表里的那条红线。

So you can kinda see the red line on the the graph below.

Speaker 2

能看出这次回撤有多剧烈。

You can see how drastic the the drawdown has been.

Speaker 2

有几个特别有意思的地方,这次和我们以往经历的任何一次回撤都不一样。

There's a couple really interesting things, and this is way different than every other drawdown we've had.

Speaker 2

在我看来,这次的情况更像2001年,那时科技泡沫破裂,资金转向了小盘股。

To me, this feels a lot more like 2001 where you had the tech bubble unwind and that money rotated into, like, smaller cap stocks.

Speaker 2

我们现在看到的,和那时候很相似。

We're seeing a lot of the same sort of things.

Speaker 2

但你看看这个。

But check this out.

Speaker 2

你可能会觉得这主要是股市的现象。

You expect this is largely an equity phenomenon.

Speaker 2

如果你看一下固定收益市场,翻到第36页,这是TLT的波动率指数,也就是TLT的波动率,现在处于低位。

And and if you look at the fixed income market, go to slide 36, this is the VIX of the TLT, which is the volatility of the TLT, which is at lows.

Speaker 2

按理说,随着动量的消退,应该会出现跨资产的波动。

Now, you'd expect with this unwind in momentum, you have some cross asset vol.

Speaker 2

完全不是这样。

Nope, not at all.

Speaker 2

一点都没有。

Not at all.

Speaker 2

连一点苗头都没有。

Not a little sniff.

Speaker 2

再往下看,这是摩根大通的货币指数。

Then if you go to the next one, this is JPMorgan currency index.

Speaker 2

再说一遍,货币市场也没有任何波动,这让我觉得特别不可思议—— Momentum 都在退潮了,可货币之间的波动率却一点都没有。

Again, no no volatility across currencies too, which is wild to me as well that you'd have this momentum unwind and, you know, there's no cross currency vol.

Speaker 2

接下来这个,我相信我们三个人都看过这张图,这是一个月期的隐含相关性。

And then if you go to the the next one, and I'm sure all three of us have this chart, but this is the one month, implied correlation.

Speaker 2

当这个数值很低的时候,就意味着是个选股的好时候。

And when this is low, you know, you have it's a stock picker's market.

Speaker 2

各个板块的表现差异很大,机会很多。

There's a lot of different, you know, sectors doing different things.

Speaker 2

所以资金正在从人工智能和AI基础设施领域撤出,转向其他行业。

So this money is moving out of of AI and AI infrastructure and going into different sectors.

Speaker 2

如果你看一下第40页,就能大概看出资金流向哪里了。

I mean, and then we can kinda talk about just if you go to, like, 40, you can kinda see where it's going.

Speaker 2

这是KRE指数。

This is, the KRE.

Speaker 2

金融板块最近可是涨得火热。

You know, financials have been on fire.

Speaker 2

它们受益于大量融资和资本支出。

They've been the beneficiary of a lot of this capital raising and CapEx.

Speaker 2

再往下看工业板块,数据中心建设在稳步缓慢地推进。

Then if you go to the next one, industrials, building out the data centers, you know, steady, slow growth.

Speaker 2

还有RSP,我没放在这里,但这是标普等权重指数。

And then RSP is another one, but I didn't put it in here, but this is that's an equal weight S and P.

Speaker 2

我们看到的是,这个市场以前太集中了。

And what we're seeing is just this market was so centralized.

Speaker 2

简直像计划经济一样。

It was so centrally planned.

Speaker 2

我觉得这都是成本削减和机器人顾问把资金都推到市值加权产品里的结果。

I think it was all the phenomenon of cutting costs and then robo advisers basically getting you to put money into, like, market cap weighted things.

Speaker 2

我觉得这种趋势现在正开始逆转。

And I think I think that's starting to really unwind here.

Speaker 2

但我最担心的一件事是,如果你看第39页,我们确实已经出现了市场失灵。

But one of the last things that I am really nervous about is if you go to slide 39, this is a we we have broken markets is is the truth.

Speaker 2

这本质上是个市场结构问题,现在杠杆型ETF的规模已经达到了六千亿,它们让单只股票的价格剧烈波动,这才造成了这种现象。

It's like, this is largely a market structure thing, and we had I think it's, like, 60,000,000,000 of levered ETFs now that whip shit around on single stocks, which has created this phenomenon.

Speaker 2

我们在对比单只股票的波动性和指数的波动性。

We're looking at the single stock volatility versus the index volatility.

Speaker 2

VIX EQ反映的是单只股票的波动,而另一个则是普通的VIX指数。

So VIX EQ is single stock volatility and then, you know, versus the VIX.

Speaker 2

如果你看这两者之间的差距,就会发现单只股票的波动简直失控了。

And if you look at the spread between the two, you can see that, like, single stock volatility is just absolutely ripping.

Speaker 2

让我担心的是,这次AI相关的回调中,几个月来零售投资者的资金大量涌入。

And what makes me nervous about this AI drawdown is, like, so much money has piled in from the retail investors for months and months and months.

Speaker 2

我们其实经历了一次伽马挤压。

We saw basically a gamma squeeze.

Speaker 2

因为资金持续涌入,所以流入量非常大。

And because of all the inflows so you have the inflows.

Speaker 2

迈克·格林最近在播客里也提到过,这类产品规模增长得非常惊人。

Mike Green just talked about this on on a recent podcast, but these products have grown immensely.

Speaker 2

而这些资金流入还会带来额外的伽马效应,一旦资金流出,就会反过来起作用。

And then you get this extra gamma from the inflows, which works in reverse on the outflows.

Speaker 2

这正是我们现在看到的情况。

And so this is exactly what we're seeing.

Speaker 2

问题在于,当某些股票的隐含波动率达到120左右——这在很多股票里都挺常见的。

The problem is is when something hits, like, I think it's like a 120 implied vol, which is a lot of these stocks.

Speaker 2

我只是随便算了一下,但这其实是很简单的数学。

I just plug this in, but this is simple simple math.

Speaker 2

当隐含波动率达到120时,股价的日均波动幅度就是±7.6%。

But at a 120 implied vol, your daily implied move is plus or minus 7.6%.

Speaker 2

一周内的波动幅度则达到±16.6%。

During the week, it's plus or minus 16.6%.

Speaker 2

一个月内,波动幅度更是高达±34.6%。

During a month, it's plus or minus 34.6%.

Speaker 2

所以,你根本没法把这么剧烈波动的股票放进一个分散投资的投资组合里。

So try you can't hold a stock that that's volatile, that that that is that volatile in a a diversified portfolio.

Speaker 2

这会打乱你所有的相关性。

It messes up all your correlations.

Speaker 2

它完全破坏了你的贝塔值。

It it just it messes up all your beta.

Speaker 2

当波动率显现时,你就得降低投资组合的杠杆。

And so as that vol, like, sees through, you have to delever your portfolio.

Speaker 2

所以如果你关注市场结构,很多这种多空基金在逆势时,不得不抛售波动率极高的股票,然后去补仓其他板块。

So you end up selling your your if if you're looking at market structure and a lot of these, like, long short funds, you have to sell the really, really high vol when it's going against you, and then you cover other other sectors.

Speaker 2

我觉得最终结果是,个股的波动率必须回落,基本面才能重新发挥作用。

And and, eventually, I think how this ends is you see single stock volatility has to drop here, and then fundamentals have to come back to play.

Speaker 2

但这些双倍、三倍杠杆ETF,以及系统内嵌的杠杆效应,最终会让散户血本无归,而Jane Street和Citadel则进一步集中了权力。

But the the effect of all these double double and triple levered ETFs and and the embedded leverage in the system In in is the retail investor inevitably gets wiped out and Jane stream Jane Street and Citadel centralize more.

Speaker 2

这整个局面实在太怪了,基本面完全被抛在脑后,但我希望随着资金轮动到真正主动管理的板块,基本面能重新回来。

And and that's we're just, it's a really, really funky concoction, but it's all everything fundamentals have just gone out the door, and I'm hoping they're coming back as, you know, things rotate into real actively managed sectors.

Speaker 2

我觉得这种情况正在发生。

I think that's happening.

Speaker 2

但一旦某个板块出现gamma挤压,之后真正赚钱的就只剩下做市商了,他们这时候纯粹靠榨取波动率获利。

But in certain once you get the gamma squeeze in in a certain sector, it it's really the only winners after that are the market makers, and they just monetize all the volatility at that point.

Speaker 2

如果你发现Jane Street、Citadel或者Susquehanna出现在你的前十大持仓里,赶紧撤吧。

And so if you see like Jane Street on your top holders list or Citadel or Susquehanna, get out.

Speaker 2

到了这一步,你就基本没戏了,因为他们只管做delta对冲,基本面已经完全不重要了。

You know, that point that you're just kind of screwed cause they're just going to be delta hedging and the fundamentals don't matter anymore.

Speaker 2

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

市场结构里的这些问题,简直太严重了。

Here in the lies of the market structure is such a problem.

Speaker 2

做市商本该是市场的中立方,可现在却越来越疯狂地赚钱。

Makers are supposed to be they should be just nonparticipants in the market, and they are increasingly making more and more and more and more money.

Speaker 2

从长远来看,他们吸走的正是中产阶级的财富。

In their like, over a long, long period of time, you haul out the middle class.

Speaker 2

不管你看的是预测市场还是别的什么,这都是游戏的规则。

And and that's that's the name of the game whether you're looking at prediction markets.

Speaker 2

而且一切正变得越来越集中。

And and everything kinda centralizes more and more.

Speaker 2

我们唯一的希望,就是资金能重新流回真正的实体经济,带来生产率和增长。

Our only hope really is if you get that rotation out into, like, real businesses again and and you have productivity and and growth and everything.

Speaker 2

所以,这正是我所期待的。

So that's what I'm I'm hoping for.

Speaker 2

也许这本来就会自然走向分散,但还有很多事情尚未明朗。

Maybe this is just naturally decentralizing, but there's a lot a lot of these things have yet to be played out.

Speaker 2

这些就是我一些宏观层面的想法。

And those are just some of my macro thoughts here.

Speaker 2

但说实话,挺让人担忧的。

But it's, it's kinda scary.

Speaker 2

你懂的。

You know?

Speaker 0

我很喜欢这一点。

I I love that.

Speaker 0

说实话,这让我想起上星期,我看到整个动态都在刷屏,说今年最大的收益都来自像Millennium这样的私募基金,还有他们的指数再平衡策略。

I mean, it just makes me think the other week I put up this week because it was all over the timeline about how, you know, all the big alpha this year has been in the the pod shops like Millennium and their index rebalancing pods.

Speaker 0

现在真正的钱都集中在这些地方。

Like, that's where all the big money is being made right now.

Speaker 0

你说,咱们身边真是聚集了一群世界上最聪明的人。

And it's just like, man, like, we have some of the smartest people in the world.

Speaker 0

我看了那位Millennium投资经理的领英资料,发现他以前研究的是生物工程。

Like, I was looking at the LinkedIn of this Millennium portfolio manager, and he was studying, like, biological engineering.

Speaker 0

他本来很可能正走在攻克癌症的快车道上。

Like, he was probably on a fast track to, like, fucking curing cancer or something.

Speaker 0

结果现在却在做指数再平衡套利。

And now he's the PM for, like, index rebalancing arbitrage.

Speaker 0

所以说,现在最顶尖的头脑,全都在干这个。

And, like, that's that's where all that's where the big brains are at now.

Speaker 0

说实话,我真不知道该说什么了。

It's just like, man, I don't know.

Speaker 0

这还真有点让人唏嘘。

It's it's it's it's a bit sad.

Speaker 2

是啊。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

这算不算资本配置不当呢?

Is that a is that a misallocation of capital there?

Speaker 1

我的意思是,老兄。

I mean, we Dude.

Speaker 1

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

你本可以拯救人类,却跑去搞套利?

You could save humanity instead you ARB everything?

Speaker 0

我明白,但说实话,这真不容易。

I mean, I get it, but, man, it's tough.

Speaker 1

不过我觉得,这本来就是设计好的。

I think it's by design, though.

Speaker 1

这些参与者只是按照游戏规则行事,力求最大化自己的收益。

All these actors are just doing what the rules of the game say to do to maximize for your outcome.

Speaker 1

如果非要说有什么不满的话,那就是你提到过一个数据——过去二十多年里,动量指标出现了最剧烈的回调。

So my beef with it, if I were to have one, would be, Tyler, you mentioned some stat like it's the craziest pullback in momentum in twenty plus years.

Speaker 1

但同样的时期,动量也经历了最疯狂的飙升。

Well, it was also the craziest run up in momentum in the same period.

Speaker 1

这完全是人为设计的结果,市场被操纵了。

It was by design with the manipulation in the market.

Speaker 1

当你同时实施刺激政策、退还关税、干预原油和国债市场以压制波动,还异常推高股市时,就会出现这种情况——我们过去几周一直在讨论这些。

That's what happens when you stimulate, you give tariff refunds at the same time that you intervene in the oil and treasury markets to suppress volatility and you abnormally pump stocks, which we've been covering here for weeks.

Speaker 1

随后就会产生连锁反应,所有人都在高点被推得满满当当。

And then there's ramifications and everyone gets bulled up at the top.

Speaker 1

正如我们连续几周讨论的,市场早已脱离基本面,半导体板块一天涨跌5%,仅仅因为杠杆ETF的资金流动。

The market, as we were talking about for weeks now, is way beyond fundamentals, moving 5% a day in semiconductors just because the leveraged ETF flows.

Speaker 1

如果实际波动只有1%,在这么多资产管理规模的放大下,会被拉到三到四倍。

If it's a really 1% move, it's amplified three, four times because of all the AUM that's grown in there.

Speaker 1

这就是会发生的情况。

This is what happens.

Speaker 1

这根本撑不下去。

It's unsustainable.

Speaker 1

我觉得特别有意思的是,整个科技板块的负面消息还在持续不断。

And so I think what's really interesting is how negative the news flow continues to be for the whole tech sector.

Speaker 1

事情是从Meg七和那些超大规模云服务商开始的。

I mean, it started with Meg seven, the Hyperscalers.

Speaker 1

我们其实早就一直在关注这事了。

They've, you know, again, we've been covering this for ages.

Speaker 1

它们一直是落后者,现在还在大把烧钱。

They've been the laggards and they're shelling out cash flow.

Speaker 1

它们的负债在增加。

They're levering up.

Speaker 1

融资成本也在往上走。

Their cost of financing is rising.

Speaker 1

他们的利差正在扩大。

Their spreads are widening.

Speaker 1

所有这些资金都流向了内存芯片这类公司,现在他们的利润率高达百分之八十。

And all that money's been flowing to these memory chip, etcetera, who now printing 80% margins.

Speaker 1

这些高利润迟早会被压缩,而且这种影响正在蔓延到整个供应链。

Those are going to get eaten, but it's spreading to the rest of the supply chain.

Speaker 1

现在你开始面临开源竞争的压力。

Now you're running into the open source competition.

Speaker 1

这些公司的资本支出已经接近上限了。

You're reaching an upper bound of how much CapEx these guys can do.

Speaker 1

他们早就已经是负自由现金流,还在不断加杠杆。

They're already negative free cash flow, already levering up.

Speaker 1

这种做法不可能无限持续下去。

You can't just continue that infinitely.

Speaker 1

问题终于开始显现了。

Know, And things are coming home to roost.

Speaker 1

我觉得最近这次轮动特别有意思,说白了,过去两个月根本就是一场轮动游戏。

What I find really funny or interesting, I guess, about this most recent rotation, because for the last two months, it's really been a rotation game.

Speaker 1

自五月上旬以来,纳斯达克和主要指数基本没什么动静。

The NASDAQ and the indices really are flat since early May.

Speaker 1

最近这次轮动很明显,对冲基金一直在做空七大巨头和资本开支大的公司,同时做多韩国、台湾、内存这些受益方。

So, you know, this most recent rotation has been you can just see the hedges have been short the Meg seven, the CapEx spenders, and long the receivers, Korea, Taiwan, memory, etc.

Speaker 1

结果现在被逼得越来越紧了。

And that's just gotten squeezed.

Speaker 1

我当时

I was

Speaker 0

也参与了,一直在看内存和芯片之间的对比。

part of it, looking at the memory versus mags.

Speaker 0

确实,这跟过去几个月完全反过来了。

Yeah, it's it's this complete reversal from the past couple of months.

Speaker 1

但我想提醒一点,很多人把这当成是云巨头自身有什么特别优势,这确实有一定道理,尤其是具体到某一家公司的时候。

But what I would warn here is I see a lot of reading into this as idiosyncratic strength due to some reason behind the hyperscalers, which definitely has some truth to it, particularly if you dive down into a single name basis.

Speaker 1

但我认为,这更多是仓位解压和拥挤行情带来的轮动惯性,而不是因为科技巨头真的有理由回到今年的高点——毕竟它们还面临这么多结构性问题。

But a lot of this I would attribute to the rotational mechanical flows of a positioning unwind and crowded squeeze, less so thinking mags has a reason to be back to year to date highs given all of the structural issues.

Speaker 1

我们刚得知Anthropic的IPO定在十月。

We just got Anthropix IPO slated for October.

Speaker 1

SpaceX的股份解禁也马上要来了。

We have SpaceX unlocks coming.

Speaker 1

科技七巨头的股票增发压力,到现在还是很大。

We have a huge supply problem of equity issuance still flowing out from the Mag-seven.

Speaker 1

总的来说,这就像是一个囚徒困境。

And just overall, it's a prisoner's dilemma.

Speaker 1

他们要么削减资本支出,来止住股价下跌、安抚投资者;但这样一来,又会拖垮不少公司的资产负债表,因为很多公司靠持有这些估值被推高的私有实验室股份——比如谷歌持有的OpenAI和Anthropic——来获得收入、增强财务状况。

They either cut their CapEx spending to stop their share price decline and appease investors, But then that kills a bunch of their balance sheets because a number of them are receiving income and balance sheet bolstering from their stakes in these privately marked up labs, OpenAI, Anthropic for Google.

Speaker 1

所以这完全是个闭环,你只能砍掉一只胳膊,才能保住另一只。

So it's very circular and that's where this comes into play because you kind of have to chop off one arm to save the other.

Speaker 1

这也解释了为什么我觉得这种相关性现象特别有意思——一旦这种联动关系真的瓦解,不管什么时候发生,市场几乎不可能再齐涨齐跌,因为相关性一旦从零跳到一,就很难再回头了。

And that's why I think this correlation thing is interesting too, because once that does underpin whenever it happens, it's very rare that the market all rises together as correlations go from zero to one.

Speaker 1

这种情况下下跌要常见得多。

It's very much more common to be a down move.

Speaker 1

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

美联储的支持现在已经没了。

I mean, the Fed the Fed support isn't there.

Speaker 1

他们又插手伊朗事务了。

They're back to meddling in Iran.

Speaker 1

这个风险环境实在没什么可看好的。

There's a lot to not like about this setup right here for risk.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

我现在对人工智能领域的敞口非常担心。

I'm I'm quite concerned about the exposure to the AI trade right now.

Speaker 0

上一次我们聊的时候,就已经开始看到一些问题浮出水面,现在感觉这些问题正在加速爆发。

I mean, the the last episode we did, we kinda started to walk through some of the cracks coming to the surface, and it just feels like they're accelerating now.

Speaker 0

很明显,最近涨得最猛的是DRAM和内存相关的板块。

Like, obviously, the big runners have been the the DRAM trade and and the memory trade.

Speaker 0

你开始看到中国供应商逐渐加入进来。

And, know, you're starting to see, like Chinese suppliers start to come on.

Speaker 0

替代效应也开始显现,推理服务商的效率也在提升。

You're starting to see substitution effects start to come on, more efficiency from from the inference providers.

Speaker 0

另外,你可能还没听说,今天中国推出了一款新的开源模型,叫Quinn 3,它的能力已经能和前沿模型比肩了。

And then now add on top of that is, I don't know if you guys saw, but today there was a new Chinese open model that just came out, Quinn three, and its capabilities are right up there with the frontier models.

Speaker 0

用不到十分之一的成本来部署这个中国开源模型,性能却和Fable 5差不多。

Like encoding this this Chinese open weight model at a fraction of the cost has similar capabilities of of Fable five.

Speaker 0

这对消费者来说当然是好事。

So that is like it's great for the consumer.

Speaker 0

你要是仔细想想这趋势往哪儿走,其实特别有意思。

You know, it's I I actually it's really interesting when you just look at where this is going.

Speaker 0

感觉很多公司都在这么做,几个月前不是还闹过一阵‘token刷量’的事吗?

It seems like a lot of companies, you know, you hear about a couple months ago, there's a whole token maxing thing.

Speaker 0

这些公司都在疯狂地花销在令牌上,结果才发现花得太狠了。

All these companies are just, you know, spending like crazy on on tokens, and then they realize they're spending too much money.

Speaker 0

现在不少公司开始转向使用这些开源模型了。

And then now a lot of these companies are starting to use these open weight models.

Speaker 0

也许他们只用前沿模型来做协调调度。

And then maybe they just use the frontier model for orchestration.

Speaker 0

但如果你突然发现,能用一个只花十分之一成本的开源模型,获得接近Fable Five八成的能力,那就会让人质疑纳斯达克目前整个商业模式的基础,还有你提到的那些接收方和支付方之间的互动关系。

But if you suddenly have like, okay, I can get 80% of the capability of Fable five, but in this open model that costs 10%, like that starts to put out question the entire proposition that the Nasdaq is is built on right now and and and just that interplay between the the receivers and the payers that you're talking about.

Speaker 0

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

Speaker 0

感觉有些方面正在迎来调整,真是个挺有意思的时候。

It feels like some of those aspects are coming to reset, like a pretty interesting time.

Speaker 0

我找到一张图挺有意思,因为我们总在谈市场结构是怎么回事,那边又是基本面的故事。

Just one chart that I found interest because, you know, we always talk about here's the market structure and what's going on there, and then here's this fundamental story.

Speaker 0

那这两者该怎么结合起来呢?

And, like, how do you piece those two together?

Speaker 0

它们什么时候才会交汇呢?

When do they come together?

Speaker 0

这个挺有意思,看看动量策略的季节性表现。

This is an interesting one just looking at seasonality of Momentum.

Speaker 0

我之前没注意到,动量策略五年平均的季节性在七月总是特别差。

And I didn't quite realize that the five year average seasonality of Momentum is, like, always really bad in July for Momentum.

Speaker 0

虽然今年的情况比平常更糟,但总是很有趣,基本面和市场结构往往在同一个时间点开始发挥作用。

Obviously, this one's, like, way worse than normal, but it's just always so interesting how the fundamentals start to happen at the same time as, like, the market structure.

Speaker 0

现在,季节性的动量反转正好和内存供应增加、对前沿模型价值的质疑同时发生,所有这些事儿都凑到一块儿了。

And it's like, suddenly that seasonal momentum reversion happens at the same time that you're starting to see more memory supply come online, this questioning of the value proposition of frontier models, and it's just sort of all arriving at once right now.

Speaker 1

得给加密货币推特上的交易员点个赞,他们今年已经押中第六个资产类别了。

We gotta hand it to the crypto Twitter traders who topped, like, their sixth asset class of the year.

Speaker 1

先是金属,接着轮到石油。

It started with metals, then it went into oil.

Speaker 1

现在又轮到币安上架美光等内存芯片股票了。

Now you get the Binance and all these listings of Micron and the memory.

Speaker 0

不过四月份确实是我。

Not in It's me in April though.

Speaker 2

老兄,你知道最明显的信号是什么吗?

Dude, know what's the greatest sign ever?

Speaker 2

我不知道你们还记不记得这事。

I don't know if you guys remember this.

Speaker 2

大概是一个月前或者两个月前。

It was probably a month or two ago.

Speaker 2

我提到过,我旁边坐着一位正畸医生,他一直在跟我炫耀,说要解雇他的财富经理。

I mentioned I sat next to a dinner of this orthodontist and he was just bragging to me how he's going to fire his wealth manager.

Speaker 2

他赚的钱实在太多了。

He's making so much money.

Speaker 2

我当时就意识到,警报响了。

And I was like, Your antenna goes up.

Speaker 2

这就像是丈母娘指标。

It's like the mother-in-law indicator.

Speaker 2

但你知道,一旦你拿到那种东西,那差不多已经是最顶尖的了。

But, you you know, as soon as you get one of those, that was like, you know, that was that was close to the top.

Speaker 2

简直近在咫尺。

Really close.

Speaker 0

或者情况已经够糟了。

Or It was been a lot.

Speaker 0

我看到一条推文,说有个医生每天要接诊二十七个病人,而我中间还得来回切换,比如从三倍杠杆的半导体股票。

I saw I saw a tweet of, like, a doctor who has, like, 27 patients a day, and in between, I'm rotating from, like, s o x l triple levered semiconductors.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

我的意思是,至少现在该重新审视一下,我还没放弃对长期基本面的判断。

I mean, it's it's at least time for I'm I'm not I'm not throwing in the towel on the on the secular, like, fundamental thesis.

Speaker 0

比如几周前,但你也知道,上一期我们不也刚看过动量图表吗?

Like Oh, no couple weeks ago, but it's just like, dude, like, I mean, we went through the momentum charts the last episode too.

Speaker 0

得让市场自己先稳下来,你再考虑重新进场。

Like, you got to let this heal itself before you get excited again.

Speaker 0

几天前我试着抄底那把刀,结果一天内就被甩出去了。

I tried to catch the knife a couple of days ago and I was stopped out within like a day.

Speaker 0

说实话,我现在就等着看。

Like, it's just I'm I'm like, I'm waiting now.

Speaker 2

你知道吗?

You know what?

Speaker 1

看看那些同样经历过这种情况的品种。

Look at these other ones that have done this.

Speaker 1

这种调整需要很长时间才能消化完。

Like, it takes a long time to digest.

Speaker 1

还有很多仓位需要清理。

There's a lot of positioning that needs rinse.

Speaker 1

金属板块连上一次的涨幅都还没消化完,那都已经是七个月前的事了。

Metals still haven't even digested their move, and that's seven months ago.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

翻到第34页。

Go to slide 34.

Speaker 2

还有一点值得注意,我觉得我们之前对超大规模云服务商持看空态度,这是高盛大盘科技股指数和非盈利科技公司的对比。

This is also interesting to keep in mind is, you know, I think we were bearish, the Hyperscalers, and this is the Goldman Sachs large cap megatech index verse nonprofitable tech basket.

Speaker 2

你看,它们现在正突破50日均线,像苹果这样的公司都创了历史新高。

And this is you know, moving up through its fifty day moving average and stuff like Apple's hitting an all time high.

Speaker 2

你可能会看到,尤其是那些超大规模云服务商,正面临一波挤压。

You know, you could see a squeeze here in a lot of the the Hyperscalers, particularly.

Speaker 2

就像你说的,菲利克斯,有意思的是,如果这些模型成本低得多,那建设投入可能就没那么大,资本开支也会下降,整个局面就变了。

Like like you said, Felix, one of the interesting things is, you know, if you do have these models that are way cheaper, then maybe the build out isn't as, you know, expensive and CapEx goes down and, you know, it changes the whole game.

Speaker 2

所以,所有那些对超大规模云服务商的悲观预测,都可能被推翻。

So you could see all the draconian scenarios for for hyperscalers.

Speaker 2

他们的支出可能会减少。

Maybe their spending goes down.

Speaker 2

他们的股价也可能因此被推高。

Their stock squeeze here.

Speaker 2

所以这算是一个可能的情况。

So that's that's kind of a potential thing.

Speaker 2

人们最想不到的,居然是云服务商的挤压行情。

What's the last thing people would expect would be the Hyperscalers squeeze.

Speaker 2

不过,这确实还有另一层意思。

But, yeah, this does this the other thing is yeah.

Speaker 2

利差方面,我觉得我可能发过相关图表。

The the spreads, I I think I might have posted that.

Speaker 2

但确实如此。

But yeah.

Speaker 0

我放了这个图表进去。

I I put this one in.

Speaker 0

但说真的,我们平时各自做研究,然后聚到一起实时讨论,这种模式还挺少见的。

But, you know, it's so funny how often all our because we kinda do this all individually and come together and do it live.

Speaker 0

不知道大家有没有意识到这一点。

I don't know if people know this.

Speaker 0

有时候我们的图表,确实是这样。

And sometimes our charts, like yeah.

Speaker 0

我们三个人这周都各自画了相关的相关性图表。

All three of us had an implied correlation chart for this week.

Speaker 0

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

总之,目前信用利差正在受到关注。

Anyway, credits credits spreads is on the lookout right now.

Speaker 0

超大规模云服务商的利差正在大幅上升。

Hyperscalers spreads are breaking out higher.

Speaker 0

是的,确实如此。

It's, yeah.

Speaker 0

现在市场上还有很多问题有待解答。

There there's questions to be answered right now in the market.

Speaker 2

到了某个时候,如果情况如此,举债融资就不合算了。

And at some point, you know, if it's this it's it's not advantageous to raise debt.

Speaker 2

今天有人在说,亚马逊好像在搞一个ATM融资。

There was chatter today that, like, Amazon was doing an ATM.

Speaker 2

你知道的。

You know?

Speaker 2

我觉得谷歌已经有ATM了。

Google, I think, has an ATM.

Speaker 2

归根结底,市场可能只是需要稍微歇一歇。

There's so there's just at at some point, maybe it just takes a little breather.

Speaker 2

你得把这段利率期限拉长,尤其是现在宏观面上,油价涨得这么高。

You take you you kick out the duration of this, until especially with one of the the more macro things is, you know, oil's up here.

Speaker 2

两年期和十年期国债,美联储在名义利率上显得太鹰派了。

The two year and the ten year, Fed has been overly hawkish on the nominal rates.

Speaker 2

哦,这个也是我想给你看的。

Oh, this is what I wanted to show too.

Speaker 2

这是最后一件宏观方面的事了。

This is the last thing that's, like, macro wise.

Speaker 2

看一下第42页幻灯片。

Check out slide 42.

Speaker 2

我知道大家都会说,通胀预期曲线这种东西没意义, blah blah blah。

And I know everyone's like, oh, we the breakeven market is stupid, blah blah blah.

Speaker 2

但在我看来,它其实更能反映市场对未来美联储政策的预期,比如你看这个一年期通胀预期。

But it's it's actually been a better indicator of, like, forward Fed expectations, in my opinion, where if you look at this is one year for inflation breakevens.

Speaker 2

它现在显示通胀率是1%。

It's saying 1% inflation.

Speaker 2

上一次出现这种情况的时候,美联储其实是在降息。

And, like, the last time that happened, the Fed was, you know, easing rates.

Speaker 2

再往下看,这是两年期的,现在低于2%。

And then if you go to the next one, this is the two year, which is below 2%.

Speaker 2

虽然美联储的前瞻指引很紧,但市场却在暗示——哪怕油价又涨回来了,通胀还是在回落。

So, like, doesn't like forward guidance, but the markets are are kinda saying and this is even in the face of oil going back up that inflation's coming back down.

Speaker 2

我觉得他们太过鹰派了,这在一定程度上抑制了市场某些领域的信贷活动。

And I think they're overly hawkish, which is constricting a little bit of, credit in certain pockets of of the market.

Speaker 2

归根结底,AI就像特朗普前几天发推说的,是关乎国家安全的要事。

And at the end of the day, AI, like Trump tweeted the other day, it's a national security imperative.

Speaker 2

我不得不觉得,这件事比什么都重要。

I I have to imagine that, like, trumps everything.

Speaker 2

迟早他们不能让这事搞砸了。

At some point, they can't let this derail.

Speaker 2

他们需要债务市场为这些项目提供资金。

They need the debt market to provide capital for this stuff.

Speaker 2

所以我现在关注的是,流动性什么时候才能回来?

So that's sort of what I'm watching is, like, when does when does the liquidity come back?

Speaker 2

因为现在金融条件正在收紧,资金都流向了增长更强劲的其他领域。

Because right now, we're we're tightening financial conditions, and it's going to other other sectors that have better growth.

Speaker 0

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

实际上,我们该聊聊沃拉德的那场演讲了。

Actually, we should talk a bit about I wanna talk about this Wallard speech.

Speaker 0

而且,Quinn,你发的那条推文简直太到位了。

And, Quinn, you wrote a tweet that just, like, absolutely nailed it.

Speaker 0

所以,是的,这是最高规格的礼遇。

So, yeah, rolling out the red carpet.

Speaker 0

来聊聊你的思路吧,我觉得那观点特别棒。

Like, explain your your thought process here because I thought it was awesome.

Speaker 1

我是说,这周每一天都有美联储官员发表讲话,就在刚才那次之后。

I mean, after this after this exact and since every day this week, there's been another Fed speech.

Speaker 1

我今天又发了一条推文。

I had another one today that I tweeted.

Speaker 1

比如圣路易斯联储的杰弗里·舒尔茨理事。

It's like Governor Jeffrey Schmidt from St.

Speaker 1

我想他应该是这个意思。

Louis, I think he is.

Speaker 1

他的观点是,通胀太高了,而且持续时间太长,我们不能主张把加息选项从桌上拿走。

And he's like, Inflation is way too high for way too long and we cannot be advocating for taking hikes off the table.

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Speaker 1

然后你回去查他的过往记录。

And then you go back and search his history.

Speaker 1

他几乎每年都在这么说。

He said that for every year, basically.

Speaker 1

他们已经连续六十三个月高于目标了。

They've been sixty three months over Target.

Speaker 1

你清醒点吧。

So get a grip, dude.

Speaker 1

而且他在2024年还多次反复改变立场。

And also there's ones of him flip flopping in 2024.

Speaker 1

这简直是个笑话。

It's just a joke.

Speaker 1

但沃勒这件事恰恰说明了前瞻指引的问题所在。

But this Waller thing exemplified why forward guidance is a problem.

Speaker 1

结果这条推文下面的评论区全在说:你根本不懂前瞻指引。

And then everybody getting in the comments of this tweet is like, You don't understand forward guidance.

Speaker 1

反应机制和前瞻性指引是有区别的。

There's a difference between the reaction function and forward guidance.

Speaker 1

我只是把它们都混在一起说了。

I just group it all together.

Speaker 1

我明白沟通本身是好事。

I do understand that communication is good.

Speaker 1

这本身没什么问题。

It's not bad.

Speaker 1

但要是他们基于过时的、回头看的数据来沟通,那就跟点阵图一样会出问题。

But when they communicate based on backward looking way expired data, it goes to the same problem as the dot plots.

Speaker 1

根本问题不在前瞻性指引、沟通方式,也不在点阵图。

The root of it is not the Forward Guidance, the Communication, or the dot plots.

Speaker 1

真正的问题在于,世界上最有影响力的金融机构,其预测和数据质量糟糕透顶。

The root of it is the fact that the most powerful financial institution in the world has horrific forecasting and data.

Speaker 1

市面上有几十家私营机构、模型和数据提供商,能以高得多的准确率做出远超他们的预测,这完全做得到。

There is dozens of private forecasters, models and providers that forecast this stuff a million times better with very high accuracy and it is possible to create.

Speaker 1

这正是沃什想表达的意思。

And that's what Warsh is saying.

Speaker 1

他说:各位,过去三年我们总在错误的时机转向宽松。

He's saying, Look, guys, the last three years we've pivoted dovish at the top of the exact wrong times.

Speaker 1

经济、通胀和增长都已见顶时,反而转向紧缩。

Pivoted hawkish when the economy and inflation and growth were peaking.

Speaker 1

这就造成了沟通上的问题,因为你总是在向市场传递错误的信息。

And then that creates a communication problem because you're always communicating to the market the wrong things.

Speaker 1

沃勒的演讲,不出所料,推高了两年期利率。

And Waller's speech, lo and behold, topped the two year.

Speaker 1

就像伊朗战争爆发前一天,两年期利率低了90个基点,他们还在谈降息——因为他们根本没法提供真正有效的前瞻性指引。

It topped the rates complex in the same way that the day before the Iran war, the two year was 90 bps lower and they were talking about cutting because jobs market they just have no ability to actually provide true forward guidance.

Speaker 1

这难道就是问题的根源吗?

Is that the answer

Speaker 2

但这才是症结所在吧?

of the beast, though?

Speaker 2

这就像是记者报道新闻,谁的点击量最高谁就最吃香。

It's kind of like a reporter that reports on stories is like you get the most amount of clicks.

Speaker 2

他们总是告诉记者要唱反调。

Like, they go tell reporters they're always contraindicators.

Speaker 2

对吧?

Right?

Speaker 2

这其实是整个体制的本性使然。

It it's it's kinda nature the nature of the institution.

Speaker 1

引导最具影响力的金融市场。

Guiding the most the most powerful financial

Speaker 0

没错。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

债券市场才是关键。

The bond market moves.

Speaker 0

我对此的疑问是,他说了,好吧。

Like, my my issue with it was that he was saying, okay.

Speaker 0

如果明天真发生了,那我七月就去徒步。

If this happens tomorrow, I'm going for a hike in July.

Speaker 0

要是债券市场对这个消息无动于衷,等上一阵子再反应,可债券市场会想:这是美联储理事在说话啊。

And, if the bond market stayed flat on that reaction and then waited to react, but the bond market's like, This is a Fed governor talking.

Speaker 0

我得马上反应。

I'm gonna react.

Speaker 0

所以两年期国债价格就跌了。

So the two year sells off.

Speaker 0

具体跌了多少我不记得了,但幅度不小。

I don't know how much it was, but it's a good chunk.

Speaker 0

收益率跟着往上冲,创了今年的新高。

Puts in the yield, puts in a new high for the year.

Speaker 0

结果后来CPI数据出来了,发现根本没那么热,冷得吓人。

And then the CPI print comes out and it's like, oh, it was actually ice cold.

Speaker 0

然后市场立马来了个大反转。

And then we completely reverse.

Speaker 0

所以这就像是,好吧,没问题。

So it's like, okay, cool.

Speaker 0

本来想压住波动,结果反而让两年期收益率的波动更大了。

Like by trying to stifle volatility, we actually just created more variance in the two year yield.

Speaker 0

这到底给我们带来了什么实际好处?

Like, what did that really provide for us?

Speaker 0

为什么不干脆等CPI数据出来,再让沃勒发个讲话,说其实没那么糟呢?

Like, why why didn't we just wait until the c prime print came out and then Waller could have a speech and say, oh, it was actually really not that bad at all.

Speaker 0

所以我还是坚持主张按兵不动,别老用这种诱饵,反而加剧了波动。

So I'm gonna keep advocating for a hold instead of, like, dangling these carrots and actually increasing volatility.

Speaker 0

这整个问题就在这儿。

Like, This is the whole thing.

Speaker 0

你越想压制波动,就越把波动推到别处去。

You try to suppress volatility, you just transfer the volatility elsewhere.

Speaker 1

关键是,不管什么时候,两年期收益率基本上一直走在美联储前面。

The point is that in all occasions, the two year yield has front run the Fed every single time basically forever.

Speaker 1

两年期收益率之所以这样走,不是因为市场在听美联储的表态。

And the two year is not doing that because they're listening off just Fed.

Speaker 1

是的,这确实复杂。

Yes, it's involved.

Speaker 1

但两年期和短期利率市场的这种反应,是因为市场参与者能解读数据、理解数据、预测数据,并推断这些数据对未来意味着什么。

But the two year and front end rates market is doing that because of participants' ability to read the data, understand the data, forecast the data, and imply what that means going forward.

Speaker 1

这就像美联储官员们在争抢关注和存在感。

It's like this vying for attention and relevance for these Fed members.

Speaker 1

这完全没必要,也帮不上忙,反而让沃什的观点更明显了——任何在市场中公开表达过观点的人,都应该明白这一点,除了美联储似乎不懂。

It's just not needed and it's not helpful because it makes The other thing that's Warsh's point too, which anybody who's ever shared a view publicly in the markets, except I guess the Fed doesn't understand this.

Speaker 1

只要你动用的是别人的钱,把你的观点押在上面,情况就不一样了。

But if you have money at play, you're running out of people's money, you're putting a view on the line.

Speaker 1

大家都知道,一旦你被贴上‘鸽派’或‘鹰派’这类标签,就会产生锚定效应。

Everybody knows about the anchoring bias that takes place when you become labeled as doves or hawks or any camp or any view.

Speaker 1

作为人,我们天生会抗拒那些可能挑战自己观点、迫使自己改变想法的信息。

You inherently as human beings refuse information that might challenge your opinion and cause you to change your mind.

Speaker 1

你得不断与这种倾向抗争,才能保持开放的心态,可又不想轻易改变立场。

And you're constantly fighting that in order to be open minded and you want to stick to your guns.

Speaker 1

所以沃什本周在证词中也提到,一旦你给自己贴上标签,就更容易变得偏颇,难以根据新信息调整观点。

And so that's what Warsh also talked about this week in his testimony is saying you become much more biased and unable to pivot and update your views with new information when you anchor yourself.

Speaker 1

不,我就是鹰派。

No, I'm the hawk.

Speaker 1

通胀是个大问题。

Inflation's a problem.

Speaker 1

或者反过来,增长才是问题。

Or on the other side, growth is a problem.

Speaker 1

我对其他观点并不开放。

I'm not open minded to things.

Speaker 1

一旦你判断错了,就会颜面尽失,而他们每次发言几乎都错得离谱。

Then you have egg on your face if you're wrong, which they're wrong literally every time they talk.

Speaker 1

他们真该闭嘴了。

They just need to stop.

Speaker 2

很多播客主也会遇到这种情况。

It happens to so many podcasters too.

Speaker 2

我们可能会改变主意,但至少思维还灵活。

We might flip flop, but we're intellectually malleable.

Speaker 1

你确实得这样。

I mean, you have to be.

Speaker 1

半导体股价涨了30%,而不是跌了30%。

Semis were up 30% and not down 30.

Speaker 1

7月3号我们最后一期播客,标题是《AI交易见顶》,结果后面全崩了。

July 3, our last podcast, the title was, The AI Trade Peaked and then everything shit the bet.

Speaker 2

我得给你们点个赞。

I to give you guys credit.

Speaker 2

你们这次真说准了。

You nailed that one.

Speaker 2

太棒了。

That's great.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

我确实说过我要试着接住几把刀,也确实去试了。

I did say I was going try to catch some knives, and I did try to catch them.

Speaker 0

所以,你看,我又一次在逻辑上保持了一致。

So I was, yeah, once again, intellectually consistent.

Speaker 0

不过,昆恩可能比我讲得更到位。

But, yeah, Quinn Quinn probably nailed it better than I did.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,上涨的时候我一点都没碰。

I mean, I didn't touch anything on the way up.

Speaker 1

所以……

So

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

但我确实。

But I yeah.

Speaker 0

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 0

我得说,我还是稳稳盈利的,毕竟把价格推上去了,最后也基本脱身了。

I'll I'll say I'm still I'm still way in the green because of running it up and managing to mostly get out.

Speaker 2

你知道的。

You know

Speaker 0

是啊,老兄。

the Yeah, man.

Speaker 2

没错。

Mean Yeah.

Speaker 2

你们觉得这个怎么样?

What do you guys think of this?

Speaker 2

我想听听你们对这个的看法。

I wanted to ask you on this.

Speaker 2

每天,日本两年期国债收益率都在缓慢攀升。

So every day, the Japanese two year yield seems to just grind higher.

Speaker 2

韩国央行加息了,那边赚钱太容易了,所以才导致了这种情况。

You had the the Bank of Korea raised rates, which caused because there's everyone's making so much money there.

Speaker 2

那边通胀挺严重的。

There's inflation over there.

Speaker 2

什么时候才会出现一次套利交易的逆转呢?

When is there going to be one of those, like, Carry Trade unwinds?

Speaker 2

我其实有点担心,这些失衡太严重了,利率波动和汇市波动却这么低,按理说这种势头一旦反转,可能会引发全球性的动荡。

Because that's what I'm actually a little bit nervous of, where these imbalances are so big and you have rate vol and FX vol so low, you'd expect an unwind of momentum like this to have some global destabilizing things.

Speaker 2

可眼下连一点苗头都没有。

And it there's not even a sniff of it.

Speaker 1

对。

Mhmm.

Speaker 2

收益率都涨得挺高了。

It's like yields are high.

Speaker 2

今天房贷利率甚至创了新高。

I mortgage rates even hit like a new high today.

Speaker 2

我挺惊讶的,会不会背后有什么政治因素,比如你要是把钱汇回去,我们就威胁要轰炸你。

And I'm surprised that maybe there's a back political thing where it's like, you can't repatriate your money anymore or else we're gonna bomb you.

Speaker 2

也许真是这样,但面对这么多失衡和全球范围的追加保证金压力,我反而更担心会有人撑不住崩盘。

That could be it, but I would be a little bit more nervous with all these imbalances and margin calls, global margin calls, that something would unwind there.

Speaker 2

你觉得这种情况真的会发生吗?

What are your thoughts on that happening?

Speaker 1

我觉得得等到期权到期之后,才能看清哪里会出现裂缝。

I think you have to wait till after options expiration and then you'll see maybe where the cracks arise.

Speaker 1

我完全同意。

But I totally agree.

Speaker 1

日本那边有个新闻被忽略了,就是他们提到要让大型资产管理公司把资金调回国内。

The Japan situation headline that went under the radar was their talk about getting large asset managers to repatriate capital.

Speaker 1

这消息是上周或者前周公布的,结果根本没人注意。

This came out last week or the week before, and it just totally flew under.

Speaker 1

结果日元走强,美元兑日元下跌,日本国债收益率也大幅下滑。

It caused the USDJPY to fall as yen strengthened and it caused a massive drop in Japanese yield.

Speaker 1

所以政策制定者都不想制造波动。

So nobody in policy wants to create volatility.

Speaker 1

他们都想压住波动,但同时也要为自己的利益着想,必须采取行动。

They all want to stifle it, but they also are looking out for their best interests and they have to act.

Speaker 1

韩国可能已经为日本央行本月末加息铺好了路,再加上最近这则资本回流的新闻,资金回流日本,日元走强,美元走弱。

So I mean, Korea, Japan, maybe Korea just laid the pavement for the BOJ to hike at the end of this month, and that, in tandem with this recent repatriation headline, flows back into Japan and strengthens the yen, weakens the dollar.

Speaker 1

科技圈似乎在暗示,这里头有更大的问题,而纳斯达克会受到最严重的冲击。

Tech's kind of saying there's some bigger problems here at play and that would hit the NASDAQ the hardest.

Speaker 1

我完全同意你的看法。

So I totally agree with you.

Speaker 1

我现在并不买波动率。

I'm not buying vol here.

Speaker 1

我目前只通过期货和现货操作,但说实话,我更愿意做波动率的买家,而不是卖家。

I'm I'm just playing everything via futures and spot, but I would rather be a buyer than a seller of vol for sure.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

我的意思是,也许我们现在才刚刚开始进入这个阶段。

I mean, yeah, you could just make the argument that maybe we're just in the early innings of this.

Speaker 0

很明显,最先受到冲击的会是那些杠杆最高的群体。

And, like, obviously, the first thing that's gonna hit is, like, the people most levered.

Speaker 0

我觉得这绝非偶然,目前承受最大压力的正是那些每天晚上都被平仓的韩国散户交易者。

I don't think it's a coincidence that, like, most of the pain has been in the Korean retail traders that are just getting liquidated every every night right now.

Speaker 0

你再看看隐含相关性的图表,这是三个月的隐含相关性。

I mean, you look again at the at the chart of implied correlation, this is the three month implied correlation.

Speaker 0

你会发现,上一次出现这种行情是在2024年夏天,那时候也正好有日元波动的情况。

And you can see, like, the last time we were in this regime was in the summer twenty twenty four, also around the time where there was, like, some yen volatility.

Speaker 0

当时随着隐含相关性上升,市场才逐渐稳定,而我们现在还低于10。

And you saw the resolution as implied correlation went higher, we're still sub 10.

Speaker 0

所以,也许合理的解释就是,我们才刚刚起步。

So, you know, maybe the argument is just that we're in the early innings of it.

Speaker 0

我也感到很意外。

I'm surprised too.

Speaker 0

我也不太确定。

Like, I don't know.

Speaker 0

就是吧。

It just yeah.

Speaker 0

可能是期权到期这类因素造成的,但也许可以说,事情还没完全明朗。

Maybe it's just the off options expiry type of thing, but, yeah, maybe you just make the argument that we just it hasn't fully resolved yet.

Speaker 0

我也不太确定。

I don't know.

Speaker 1

你得时刻保持警惕。

We need to keep you need to keep your head on a swivel.

Speaker 1

一方面,正如你提到的,这个相关性指标的历史参照并不利于风险控制。

One, with this correlation stat that, as you mentioned, the historical analogs aren't aren't good for risk.

Speaker 1

另一方面,这些平仓往往接连发生,彼此之间存在某种一致性。

But two, all of these unwinds tend to follow each other and there's some consistency between them.

Speaker 1

如果你还记得去年十月,那会儿有文艺复兴基金的事。

If you remember back in October of last year, had the Renaissance.

Speaker 1

我觉得他们一周内跌了百分之十到十五。

I think they lost like 10 or 15% in a week.

Speaker 1

市场中性策略基金现在面临巨大的动量下滑问题。

There's a big momentum fall issue for the market neutral pods.

Speaker 1

然后这种压力又逐渐蔓延到不同的资产类别。

And then they kind of rolled through different complexes.

Speaker 1

加密货币遭重创,还有其他好几类资产也一样。

Crypto got nailed, a bunch of different things.

Speaker 1

你现在就能看到这种迹象了。

You're kind of seeing that now.

Speaker 1

一开始是Meg7,接着轮到半导体,现在又轮到韩国市场。

It started with the Meg7, now it's semis and now Korea.

Speaker 1

这些都只是流动性紧张的信号,资本根本不足以支撑所有资产,直到出现大规模的轮动。

And those are all just signs of bad liquidity and there's not enough capital to support everything until you get in these huge rotations.

Speaker 1

所以我要提醒你格外小心,因为随时可能触发更大的波动。

So I'd be very careful because there's a lot that could set it off.

Speaker 1

往往当发生一件特别疯狂的事,比如韩国这边的情况,所有人都死死盯着它不放。

Oftentimes when there's one crazy thing going on, the Korea situation, everyone's just glued there.

Speaker 1

就好像,天哪,房间里这么大一头大象,谁都能看见。

It's like, Oh my God, look at this elephant in the room.

Speaker 1

可与此同时,还有另外三头大象你根本没留意——日元、伊朗,还有其他一堆问题。

Meanwhile, there's like three other elephants that you're not thinking about, which is the yen and Iran and all these other things.

Speaker 1

所以我觉得真有外溢风险,因为基本面根本撑不住。

And so I think there is real risk of spillover because the underlying internals are just not positive.

Speaker 1

当某个东西被推得太高太快,比如半导体、动量交易,所有热门股票一周内就能冒出两倍、三倍杠杆的ETF,就像韩国那样,大家觉得‘我们能搞定’。

And when you get something ran up a pole so hard, like semis, momentum, I mean, all of the levered ETFs, every hot stock now gets a 2x, 3x levered ETF within a week because and again, like Korea, Okay, we're fixing this.

Speaker 1

我们加息,我们禁令,一切都能控制。

We're going to hike and we're going ban this.

Speaker 1

可你们当初干嘛放任它发展?

You guys let it happen in the first place.

Speaker 1

你们怎么能让老百姓整天玩三倍杠杆的投机产品?

Why are you letting your population just day trade triple levered things?

Speaker 1

很明显,最后只会落得个惨淡收场。

Obviously, it's going to end in misery.

Speaker 1

但话说回来,当这些东西被炒得太高时,可不是简单回调10%就完事了,抄底的人也不会马上进场——实际上,最后这40%的涨幅,大概全是杠杆型散户推上去的。

But yeah, when you get these things ran up the pole, they don't just pull back 10% and the dip buyers come in and no, the last 40% of these moves was probably all levered retail.

Speaker 1

所以真正的价值投资者还得再等等,离他们入场还早着呢。

So the value buyers still have a long ways to go before they actually step in.

Speaker 1

这通常不是那种普通的调整。

It's not just a routine pullback usually.

Speaker 1

我也说不准。

So I don't know.

Speaker 1

中期选举前,各方确实有动力维持市场高位,但也有另一种可能:他们心里清楚,咱们今晚就会听到特朗普又在胡说八道选举的事,也许他们干脆认输,把众议院让出去,提前把痛苦都消化掉。

There's also a lot of incentive to try and keep things elevated in the midterms, but there's also a world where they just know they I mean, we'll hear from Trump tonight to see whatever bullshit he's going to spew about elections, but maybe they just concede the House and try to front load the pain.

Speaker 1

我觉得不太可能,但接下来几个月肯定够热闹的。

I doubt it, but yeah, it's going be a wild next few months for sure.

Speaker 2

我想聊聊这个。

I wanted to talk about this.

Speaker 2

这将是最后一个图表了。

This is going to be the last chart in there.

Speaker 2

这是第44页。

It's slide 44.

Speaker 2

你看到了吗?

You see it?

Speaker 2

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 2

摩根士丹利的价值指数。

So the Morgan Stanley value index.

Speaker 2

我总觉得,价值股已经死了很久很久了。

And part of me keeps going back to, you know, value's been dead for god knows how long.

Speaker 2

我在想,是不是因为过去二十年市场结构一直失衡——费用一降再降,佣金一砍再砍,把散户都引到Robinhood上,然后疯狂加杠杆、玩gamma挤压、炒期权。

And I'm just thinking if this is like all these market structure things have been it's been an imbalance of probably twenty years of, like, cutting fees, cutting commissions, getting retail to buy your Robinhood, then yoloing yoloing into, like, leverage, gamma squeezes, options.

Speaker 2

也许这次,正是那些长期坚持买价值股的基金经理们等来的转折点——高增长泡沫终于退潮,真正有价值的企业重新回到舞台中央。

And what if this is the end of how it how all that leverage ends is, like, these poor guys, these active managers that have been buying value stocks for years, Finally, like, this is the where all that super high growth unwinds and value businesses come back into play.

Speaker 2

然后所有的被动型ETF都在追逐那些被冷落了二十年的股票。

And then you get all the passive, you know, ETFs chasing all these things that have been beaten up for, I don't know, twenty years.

Speaker 2

我觉得有点奇怪,你对这个怎么看?

It's like I don't What are what are your thoughts there?

Speaker 2

在这个世界里,价值投资真的已经死了吗?

Is value dead in this world?

Speaker 2

要是AI和廉价模型继续降价,价值型公司反而能提升利润率,那局面不就反转了吗?

What if if this AI and cheap, you know, models and what if what if the the models get cheaper and cheaper and now value businesses actually can grow margins, and it it switches the game?

Speaker 2

我脑子里想的大概就是这些。

That's sort of what I'm thinking about here.

Speaker 2

我觉得好像没人真正在讨论这一点,不过——

It's kind of I don't think anyone's really talking about that, but,

Speaker 0

是的。

yeah.

Speaker 0

我很喜欢这个观点。

I like that a lot.

Speaker 0

我的意思是,如果我们真的进入一个知识变得丰富、效率开始逐步显现的阶段,那现在之所以看不到利润增长,是因为最前沿的模型太贵了,根本没法用于实际的智能应用。

I mean, if, yeah, if we're going towards a regime where knowledge is abundant and efficiency actually starts to trickle through, like, right now there's a difficulty in seeing that margin gain because the frontier models are so expensive for, like, actual intelligence.

Speaker 0

如果你用便宜一点的模型,它们还是挺废的,动不动就胡编乱造。

And, like, if you use the cheaper models, they're still kinda useless and hallucinate like crazy.

Speaker 0

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

要是真到了那种模型能带来正利润的阶段,你就完全能看到这种效益慢慢渗透到各个领域。

If you get to a world where it's actually, like, margin positive, you could totally see it start to trickle through.

Speaker 0

然后你就会想到,类似的情况以前也发生过,比如电信泡沫和互联网初期,那些打基础的公司几乎全倒闭了,但真正赚到钱的,都是在上面建应用的那些人。

And then, I don't know, I mean, you start to bring up the questions of, like, obviously, the analog here is during the telecom boom and everything and, like, the Internet, all the, you know, all the companies that were laying the groundwork all went bankrupt, but then everything that was built on top of it was that's where the value got captured.

Speaker 0

是的。

And Mhmm.

Speaker 0

这种说法早就被说得烂了。

You know, obviously, that's been talked about ad nauseam.

Speaker 0

没必要深挖,但我觉得这确实是个不错的方向。

Don't need to get too deep into it, but I think it's a it's a decent enough a bet.

Speaker 0

当然,几周前这主意还靠谱得多,但如果你一直押注动量轮动到价值股,我也不确定。

Obviously, it was a much better bet a couple weeks ago, but if you were, you know, long momentum to rotate in the value, but I don't know.

Speaker 0

我之前也多次以为价值轮动要来了,结果却总是落空。

I've also been burned too many times of thinking here comes the value rotation, and then it's just like

Speaker 2

就是本地的随机波动。

the local toss.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

你看这张图。

I mean, look at this chart.

Speaker 0

我的意思是,如果你拉长到过去二十年来看,情况一直都没变。

It's just like every I mean, if you zoom out to the last twenty years, it's the same thing.

Speaker 2

哦,对啊。

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2

我知道。

I know.

Speaker 2

我们现在甚至到了像1999年那样的低点。

It's even we're at the lows of two thousand like, 1999.

Speaker 2

这挺有意思的,因为看起来像是双重测试——2020年有一次测试,现在又回来测试一次,然后开始往上走了。

Well, this is it's interesting because it almost looks like it like a double, you know, there's the test in 2020, there was a test and then you get the retest now and now it's coming out of here.

Speaker 2

如果你放大看这里,可以看一下更长期的图表。

It's kind of, if you zoom out here, can send a longer term chart here.

Speaker 1

你注意这个图表,如果把成长股和价值股的比率画出来,它和股市指数的相关性非常高。

The thing that you'll notice about this chart, you were to plot it, it's growth divided by value is extremely correlated to the stock market indices.

Speaker 1

你会发现,价值股相对于成长股的大幅反弹,常常伴随着指数的下跌,而这背后也有其他原因,确实很有意思。

So what you'll notice is these big rips in value relative to growth are very often correlated to downward moves in the indices, which is a function too of Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,还有无数其他指标都显示,我们现在的情绪和疫情前、互联网泡沫时期的投机水平很接近。

I mean, there's a million and two sign like other indicators that say we're near kind of pre COVID and .com levels of speculation.

Speaker 1

所以这完全说得通。

So this makes a ton of sense.

Speaker 1

而且我觉得,这种高度相关性是因为标普500里头,巨头公司占了百分之四十多,半导体更是高达百分之二百。

And yeah, I think that it's very correlated because of the concentration in the S and P 500 is forty some percent Meg 720% semiconductors.

Speaker 1

这根本不能代表真正的实体经济,也就是普通老百姓的生活经济。

Is not representative of a real Main Street kind of real life economy.

Speaker 1

现在全都是科技股在撑着。

It's all tech now.

Speaker 1

所以当我们讨论供应链各个层面都出问题的时候,这就有问题了。

So that's a problem when we talk about all of these problems plaguing every aspect of the supply chain.

Speaker 1

大型云服务商面临现金流压力和资本回报的质疑。

You have Hyperscalers, cash flow problems and return on capital questions.

Speaker 1

而半导体和内存厂商呢,利润率高达百分之八十,但接下来肯定会遭遇激烈竞争。

Then you have the semiconductors in memory who are printing 80% margins who you know are going to face severe competition.

Speaker 1

我们说这些,已经不只是科技行业的问题了。

We talk about that, it's not just tech anymore.

Speaker 1

这个泡沫跟2000年不一样的地方在于,2000年那会儿是个巨大的热潮。

Why this bubble is different than 2000 is in 2000, it was a huge boom.

Speaker 1

而当时那种狂热情绪,带点更广泛的投机色彩。

And you had this like maybe a slightly more speculatively widespread made mania.

Speaker 1

但这一次,由于这些公司已经壮大到成为指数中的核心成分,这个泡沫在规模和实质上都更大。

But in this instance, the bubble is more material and larger in magnitude because of the concentration that these companies have grown to become as part of the indices.

Speaker 1

因此,从某种意义上说,它对整个股市的传染性更强,因为它们的权重实在太高了。

So it's more sort of contagious, if you will, in that way for the broader equity market because of how much they represent.

Speaker 1

每个泡沫的表现形式都不一样,但像你提到的成长股和价值股之间的轮动,这些特征往往有相似之处。

So every bubble looks different, but there are some characteristics like this one you point on the growth versus value that tend to rhyme.

Speaker 2

对。

Mhmm.

Speaker 0

我想最后聊一聊伊朗局势又开始升温了。

I wanna finish off by talking about the Iran situation that's coming up again.

Speaker 0

霍尔木兹海峡又封闭了。

Straits close again.

Speaker 0

封锁又回来了。

Blockades are back.

Speaker 0

炸弹又开始落下了。

Bombs are dropping again.

Speaker 1

但他们真的很想谈妥。

They wanna deal so bad, though.

Speaker 0

但他们真的想谈妥。

But they wanna deal.

Speaker 0

但他们真的想谈妥。

But they wanna deal.

Speaker 0

他们想谈妥。

They wanna deal.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

他们想谈妥。

They wanna deal.

Speaker 0

但我觉得有必要提一下,这次我们回到这里时,全球原油库存的水平是这样的。

But I think it's worth mentioning that this time around that we're back here, this is where total global oil inventory is going into this round.

Speaker 0

而且这次库存真的在下降,我们的原油库存几乎回到了零点附近。

And we're back to almost zero on the straight up form we use in terms of traffic again with inventories actually drawn down this time.

Speaker 0

所以我不太清楚这里的计划是什么。

So I don't really know the plan here.

Speaker 0

很明显,油价已经比低点高出十美元了。

Obviously, oil's already $10 above the lows.

Speaker 0

但如果这种局面再次重现,库存又回到这个水平,那我觉得所有精明的石油分析师都忽略了一点:中国之前已经大量囤积了原油,在那段时间停止了进口,这才让他们在油价波动中得以自保。

But if if this is if we're back to this regime again with inventories where they're at and, like, you know, it seems like the big thing all the smart oil analysts miss was that China had already stockpiled a ton of oil and had stopped importing during that phase, and that sort of kept them safe in terms of, like, oil prices.

Speaker 0

不知道这次会不会再发生同样的情况。

Don't know if that's gonna happen again.

Speaker 0

但当我一看库存,再看眼下这形势,我真的说不准。

But when I just look at inventories and I look at this, I don't know.

Speaker 0

感觉这次的风险要大得多。

It feels like feels like a lot more treacherous.

Speaker 0

这次,就在大家都觉得油价不可能涨到两百美元的时候。

This time, right as when everybody's like, I I don't wanna see like, oil's not gonna be like $200.

Speaker 0

过去几个月,我已经在这笔交易上栽过跟头了。

I've already been burned on that trade over the last few months.

Speaker 0

感觉不太靠谱。

Feels sketchy.

Speaker 0

我不清楚你们是怎么看待这个问题的。

I don't know how you guys are thinking about it.

Speaker 1

实际上,现在还有充足的储备可以动用。

There's still ample reserves actually to draw down.

Speaker 1

我不是说政府该照着这么做,但如果你是个想操控市场的石油主管,想在中期选举前稳住局面,眼下还是有储备可以释放,来支撑市场、压住油价的。

Not saying as a government you should do what they might do, but if you're a pumper in chief looking to manipulate markets and trying to sustain things into midterms, there is still functionally reserves to be drained that would support risk and keep a lid on oil.

Speaker 1

不过,这场危机的另一点在于,由于乌克兰对俄罗斯的反击取得成效,情况正变得越来越复杂。

That said, the other thing about this crisis is that it's becoming actually multi pronged because of Ukraine's success against Russia.

Speaker 1

他们现在对石油和天然气的炼化、运输和物流设施的打击频率,已经达到了我们在这场持续四年的冲突中从未见过的程度。

They are now hitting refining transportation and logistics for assets for oil and gas at an increasing rate that we have not seen yet in this whole multi year four year conflict.

Speaker 1

这已经产生了实际影响,毕竟俄罗斯是全球顶级的成品油、石油和天然气供应国之一。

And that's having real ramifications because obviously Russia is a massive top three supplier of refined products and oil and gas to the rest of the world.

Speaker 1

所以像委内瑞拉这样的国家正在增产,其他地区也在一定程度上起到缓冲作用。

So you have things like Venezuela ramping and other parts that are sort of helping to buffer.

Speaker 1

我目前没有持有任何石油相关的头寸。

I don't have any positions in oil.

Speaker 1

我倾向于认为,特朗普会出手干预,毕竟离中期选举这么近,他不能让局势失控。

I lean towards Trump going to Taco and needing to do something here to not let things get out of control this close in proximity to the midterms.

Speaker 1

但我也不确定。

But I don't know.

Speaker 1

我的看法是,他现在介入,是因为市场上其他地方已经到处是裂缝了。

I mean, I think he's in the business right now because of all the cracks everywhere else in the market.

Speaker 1

我觉得他现在是在刻意制造波动,想借此遏制股市可能的下跌趋势。

I think he's sort of in the business here of manufacturing volatility to try and control the potential weakness coming in stocks.

Speaker 1

我这么说是因为,如果你没制造问题,就不可能真正控制住它。

And the reason I say that is you can't control it if you didn't create it.

Speaker 1

你知道吗,如果市场因为这个说法、财报表现,还有AI泡沫破裂这些因素而下跌,你是控制不了的。

You know, if the market's selling off because of this narrative and earnings and blow up of AI and all these things, you can't control that.

Speaker 1

如果你通过伊朗制造了波动,你会发现你说了一大堆话,可根本没人听。

If you create the volatility via Iran, you notice you keep saying tons of things and no one's listening.

Speaker 1

市场根本不在乎。

The market hasn't cared.

Speaker 1

这对他来说倒是个麻烦。

It's sort of like a problem for him.

Speaker 1

我觉得他这么做,是为了重新点燃市场的波动,然后过几周再把它压下去。

I think this is in a way to kind of drum up that vol again to then suppress it in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1

但看起来,这已经是连续第七天遭到袭击了。

But it does seem like I I think we're on the seventh straight day of attacks.

Speaker 1

这明显是一场战争。

It's definitely a war.

Speaker 1

我不确定。

I don't know.

Speaker 1

我这儿没什么好的见解或交易建议。

I don't have any good insights or trades here.

Speaker 1

想想石油,你已经从这波行情里赚到轻松的钱了。

Think oil, you got the easy squeeze money out of it.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

如果非得选一个短期方向,我可能会押注下跌,但这根本不是值得下注的事。

I would probably bet lower if I had to pick in the short term, but it's not something betting on.

Speaker 1

对,我觉得这已经

Yeah, I think it's

Speaker 0

更像一个政治问题了。

more like a political issue now, it seems.

Speaker 0

我的意思是,他们就困在这场战争里,我也说不清到底怎么回事。

I mean, they're just stuck in this, I don't know, like, yeah, in this war.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,除非派地面部队去推翻政权,否则根本没法结束这场战争。

I mean, there's no way to end it unless you go You have to have boots on the ground regime change.

Speaker 1

这种情况我们已经见过无数次了。

So I don't we've seen that a million times.

Speaker 1

不管是面对比伊朗更强还是更弱的对手,你懂吧?

Even against stronger and weaker opponents than Iran, I mean or weaker opponents than Iran, you know?

Speaker 1

这事儿就是没完。

It doesn't end.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

我真的搞不懂这一切到底是怎么回事。

This is I I don't know what to make of all that.

Speaker 2

第一次的时候,特朗普真是走了一步险棋,但我不知道现在还能不能做到,我原以为他能当这个霸主、掌控全局的人呢。

I think the first time around, Trump really threaded a needle, and I don't know if you can I thought he could play the hegemon, you know, ruler, you know, guy?

Speaker 2

但这次我觉得他根本不想干这事,只是被迫无奈才出手,这可不像个有权力的样子。

But this one, I feel like he's kind of does not want this to happen, and he's reluctantly doing it now, which is not a a place of power.

Speaker 2

你瞧,JD万斯现在上乔·罗根的节目,说的完全是跟特朗普相反的观点。

I mean, you got JD Vance basically going on Joe Rogan talking, you know, the opposite side of of of Trump now.

Speaker 2

这形象可不怎么样。

And, it's not a not a good look.

Speaker 2

我觉得这场战争并不受欢迎。

And I just I think it's not a popular war.

Speaker 2

我不知道该怎么把这只放出的瓶子再收回去,你只能盯着信用利差,它才会告诉你真实的情况。

And there's I don't know how you put the genie back in this bottle, and you just gotta watch credit spreads because they'll they'll tell you what's really going on.

Speaker 2

如果十年期国债收益率继续飙升,这事可能会彻底失控。

And if you get if you get the ten years spiking along, this this could end really badly.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

现在最该做的就是保全资本,躲到波动小的地方去,这是我看法。

It was a now is the time for conservation of capital and be in be in places that are less volatile is is the way I see it.

Speaker 2

除非隐含波动率明显下降,否则我建议别轻举妄动。

Until until you get a sign that implied vol is is kinda coming down, I don't think you can play.

Speaker 2

如果你想交易,就低吸高抛。

If you wanna trade this thing, you buy the dips, sell the rips.

Speaker 2

我敢打赌,一两天内就会来一场猛烈的逼空,现在这种动量行情简直就是典型的熊市表现。

I'm sure we're gonna have a vicious squeeze, which is so bear market in momentum here in, like, a day or two.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

让大家觉得一切都没问题。

Get everyone and get like, everything's fine.

Speaker 2

你懂的。

You know?

Speaker 2

结果你直接被干趴了,因为Jane Street和Citadel来回猛调Delta值。

And then you just get your face ripped off because Jane Street and Citadel just whip the deltas back and forth.

Speaker 2

砰。

Boom.

Speaker 0

买卖盘都薄得可怜。

Books are so thin.

Speaker 0

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

然后你就这么听着。

And you just Yeah.

Speaker 1

关于JD·万斯这件事,真的很耐人寻味。

It's it's fascinating on on the the JD Vance thing.

Speaker 1

基本上,特朗普只要事情还撑得住,就谁的话都听,就是不听贝桑特。

It's basically like Trump listens to everybody but Besant as long as things as long as he can.

Speaker 1

可一旦事情搞砸得太厉害,他才不得不听贝桑特的。

And then when he when they all fuck it up too far, then he has to listen to Besant.

Speaker 1

等他听了之后,又回头想补救这一堆烂摊子。

And then they revert and try to make up for all this stuff.

Speaker 1

但这种事,我一点都不觉得奇怪。

But I wouldn't put it past this situation.

Speaker 1

这里面牵扯的是人,还有那起从土耳其传出的暗杀事件,你懂的,这些显然让他们吓坏了。

There's humans involved here and that assassination thing out of Turkey, You know, those have clearly

Speaker 0

把他们吓坏了。

freaked them out.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,别觉得任何人不会因为生气就采取报复手段,干掉谁之类的。

And I mean, don't put it past any human to like take out, you know, be pissed and sort of revenge tactic.

Speaker 1

一个理智的领导人,不可能干这种事。

Think like a level headed leader wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1

他们在他还在土耳其的时候就发动下一次入侵,我一点都不意外。

You also wouldn't think I was shocked when they started their next incursion while he was in Turkey.

Speaker 1

我当时就想,这也太疯狂了。

I was like, That's crazy.

Speaker 1

人家就在隔壁国家,他居然直接开炸。

He's one country over and he's blowing them up.

Speaker 1

我简直不敢相信。

I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 1

然后你就看到那些关于换飞机的事了。

And then you saw these things about switching the planes.

Speaker 1

现在外面的情况可真复杂。

It's a complicated time out there right now.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,确实如此。

I mean, yeah.

Speaker 1

在这场迷雾战争中。

In the fog war.

Speaker 0

到底是谁?

Who the hell?

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

我不清楚。

I don't know.

Speaker 2

我能提一下这件事吗?

Can I bring this up?

Speaker 2

因为这又是一个典型的代际问题,我们通常都会谈到这个。

Because this is another I mean, we all usually end with, like, a generational thing.

Speaker 2

我看了,确实。

And I watched yeah.

Speaker 2

有两件事发生了:唐尼妈妈遇到住房问题,后来有位女性发言,直接把驱逐称为‘驱逐的暴力’。

Two things happened, which is mom Donnie had some housing thing, and he he had this woman speak and basically said they called it the violence of eviction.

Speaker 2

如果你是那种,你知道的,听我说。

And, like, if you're a you know, listen.

Speaker 2

我支持房租合理,让普通人住得起,这些我都认同。

I'm all for, you know, rents being okay for people to live and everything.

Speaker 2

但如果你不交房租,我觉得被赶出去也是应该的。

But, like, if you don't if you don't pay your rent, I think you should be evicted.

Speaker 2

而且说实话,如果没有这一条,整个系统根本运转不起来。

And I've also like, there's I just don't think the system works if you don't have that.

Speaker 2

我一直在想,纽约现在做的这些事,我尽量保持开放心态,唐尼。

And I'm I guess what I'm wondering is, like, everything that New York is doing you know, I try to keep an open mind from him, Donnie.

Speaker 2

他就说:‘哎,我也不太清楚。’

He's like, oh, I don't know.

Speaker 2

可能吧,你知道的,那时候他们正处在生产率飙升的阶段。

Maybe, like, you know, they were in a productivity boom.

Speaker 2

但现在他们却把纽约批得一无是处。

And but now they're just crucifying New York.

Speaker 2

这人是在纽约以外长大的,那时候凯西·霍楚尔还禁止建数据中心呢。

This is someone who grew up outside New York where Kathy Hochul put on a data center ban.

Speaker 2

所有数据中心都往德克萨斯跑。

All the data centers are going to come to Texas.

Speaker 2

德克萨斯的财政盈余,本来是三千亿,现在要涨到五千亿了。

Texas is going to have, instead of the $30,000,000,000 surplus, we're going have a $50,000,000,000 surplus.

Speaker 2

然后这些州都在搞这一套一套的。

And then you know, they're doing all these things in these states.

Speaker 2

我就想不通,那儿的人怎么活得下去。

And it's like, I just don't know how people survive there.

Speaker 2

这简直跟该做的完全相反。

It's almost the opposite of what you should do.

Speaker 2

你们觉得这个怎么样?

What do you guys think of this?

Speaker 2

我实在想不通,当政治这么分裂的时候,美国怎么还能维持在一起。

I just don't see how America stays together when the politics are so

Speaker 1

分裂。

polarized.

Speaker 1

只要选对地方,我对房地产非常看好。

I'm unbelievably bullish on real estate in the right places.

Speaker 1

人口迁移才是关键。

Am the migration.

Speaker 1

新冠疫情就像一个开端。

COVID was like.

Speaker 1

如果问我,我觉得新冠疫情其实预示了未来人口流动的趋势,因为。

If you if you ask me, COVID was like training wheels of what the migration flows will look like into the future because.

Speaker 1

在你提到的所有这些事情里,作为生意人,你根本没法接受——这本质上就是在取消财产权。

Of what all the things you're pointing out, I mean, as you're as a business owner, you can't you that's basically eliminating property rights.

Speaker 1

说驱逐就是暴力,等于在说你其实并不真正拥有那栋公寓楼,他们可以住在那里,还不用付你房租。财产权,至少是美国区别于其他地方最根本的基石之一。

It's saying eviction is violence is saying like, oh, it's not you don't actually own that apartment building, you know, like, you know, they they can live there and they don't have to pay you like Property rights were one of the, if not the most fundamental thing to make in America differentiated in what it is.

Speaker 1

这为整个体系奠定了基础。

That lays the groundwork for

Speaker 0

那你根本不想知道加拿大这边正在发生什么。

You don't even want to know what's going up here in Canada then.

Speaker 0

现在有人在讨论,你对自己拥有的房子到底有没有产权,尤其是建在原住民土地上的情况。

There is discussion on whether you have any property rights at all of houses you own because whether it's on First Nation land.

Speaker 0

目前这方面还在反复争论中。

And there's, like, back and forth on that right now.

Speaker 0

你家房子下面那块地,你到底有没有所有权?

Like, the house the land that your house is on, do you own that land?

Speaker 0

这个问题现在正被广泛讨论。

That is a question that is being discussed right now.

Speaker 2

那你还为什么要拥有任何东西呢?

Well, why would you ever own anything?

Speaker 2

我的意思是

I mean

Speaker 1

所以你才得去买啊。

Well, that's why you that's why you have to buy.

Speaker 1

这正是我刚才说的。

That's why that's what I just said.

Speaker 1

我的意思是

I mean

Speaker 2

这不就是个巨大的骗局吗?

It's just a giant arb, right?

Speaker 2

最后只会落得一场空。

Like, end up going.

Speaker 1

这其实就是

It's it's

Speaker 2

人们为什么要离开英国,横跨大洋去开拓新土地呢?

why people left England and went across the ocean to go settle a new land.

Speaker 2

这其实才是世界历史的真相。

That actually is the history of the world.

Speaker 2

人一旦和自然融为一体,就很难抽身了。

You get ingrained in nature.

Speaker 2

真遗憾,我们长大的那些州,财政问题严重,可他们做的却恰恰相反。

It's sad to say those states that we grew up in, massive fiscal problems, and they're doing the exact opposite things.

Speaker 2

你想想,当时情况那么糟,我以为痛苦够了,他们总该被迫改弦更张了吧,可结果呢?

Like, you had you had and I thought the pain would get bad enough where, you know, they would be forced to change where it's like, alright.

Speaker 2

我们得减少监管,放开手脚建设,只有经济增长了,才能撑得起这些开销。

We gotta cut regulation and just, like, build because we need growth to pay for this stuff.

Speaker 2

但我看这事根本没发生。

And I don't think it's happening.

Speaker 2

事实上,情况反而越来越紧了。

In fact, it's like it's actually the vice is getting tighter and tighter.

Speaker 2

对。

Mhmm.

Speaker 2

能撑住的只有那些资本成本低、不需要花大钱养孩子的婴儿潮一代。

And the only people that can survive it are are kinda like boomers that have a low low cost of capital and don't need, you know, to pay for childcare.

Speaker 2

但我真不明白,普通家庭怎么在那儿活下去。

But I don't understand how families survive there.

Speaker 1

确实很不错。

I mean Very good.

Speaker 1

看你得走了,费利克斯。

Looking at you gotta go, Felix.

Speaker 0

我以为你挺难的,我以为你

I thought you had a hard I thought you

Speaker 1

时间到了。

had a hard stop.

Speaker 1

是的。

I do.

Speaker 1

不过我刚看的最后一件事是。

But last thing I was just looking at.

Speaker 0

对,我本来是想等你说完的。

Yeah, I was I was stopping for you.

Speaker 0

你接着说。

You go.

Speaker 1

谢了,兄弟。

Thanks, bro.

Speaker 1

最后一件事,我刚注意到,迈阿密现在的气温比纽约和洛杉矶低一度。

Last thing is I was just looking at it's one degree cooler in Miami than New York and L.

Speaker 1

啊。

A.

Speaker 1

目前两地都是这样。

Right now both.

Speaker 1

而且这儿也没发生山火。

And there's no wildfires here.

Speaker 1

那里有大海。

There's ocean.

Speaker 1

还有很多机会。

There's tons of start.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,基于你们提到的这些原因,迟早会变得显而易见,根本不用犹豫。

I mean, there's going to be a point where for all these reasons you guys mentioned, it's just like it just becomes an absolute no brainer.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,这事儿就是

I mean, it's it's

Speaker 0

你们不是说迈阿密会有飓风,再过二十年就要被海水淹了吗?

a have You hurricanes and, like, isn't Miami just, like, underwater in twenty years?

Speaker 1

那都是瞎说。

That's all No.

Speaker 2

有一家新公司正在融资,真的。

There's a new company that it raises dude.

Speaker 1

二十年前就有人这么说了。

Said that twenty years ago.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

为什么所有这些——

Why would all these-

Speaker 0

我真是被加拿大的宣传和恐惧情绪给骗了。

I'm falling for the Canadian propaganda, fear clearly.

Speaker 1

他们跟你说这些,然后就会把你的房子收走,兄弟。

They tell you that, then they'd take your home, bro.

Speaker 1

他们不希望你

They don't want you to

Speaker 0

拥有。对,没错。

own Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1

这太荒唐了。

It's fucked.

Speaker 1

你在这里买房,我们不会打扰你。

You can own a home here and we won't bother you.

Speaker 1

甚至会对人开枪

Can even shoot people a

Speaker 2

一天到晚。

day.

Speaker 2

我想补充一点。

Just want to add.

Speaker 2

事情会越来越离谱,直到某天爆发革命。

Things are going to get weirder and weirder and weirder until there's some sort of revolution.

Speaker 2

我觉得这基本上就是我们正在走向的结局。

I think that's basically what

Speaker 0

我们正朝着这个方向发展。

we're

Speaker 2

局面终将发生根本性的转变。

getting to.

Speaker 2

局势终将彻底改变。

The ball the ball is going to get transmuted somewhere.

Speaker 1

疯狂预算就像骑自行车时的辅助轮,说白了,问题不在他身上。

Mad money is training wheels for like, you know, it's not the it's not him that is.

Speaker 1

是钱的问题吗?

Money or what?

Speaker 0

疯狂预算。

Mad money.

Speaker 2

疯狂妈妈爸爸,老兄。

Mad Mom Daddy, bro.

Speaker 1

疯狂曼尼。

Mad Manny.

Speaker 2

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

疯狂麦克斯。

Mad Max.

Speaker 0

总之。

Anyways.

Speaker 2

但如果你要创业,你会选择在那里起步吗?

But, like, if you're starting a company, would you ever start a company there?

Speaker 2

不会。

No.

Speaker 2

那里谁在搞创新呢?

Like, who's innovating there?

Speaker 0

不会。

No.

Speaker 0

这就是原因。

That's why yeah.

Speaker 1

所有事都在奥斯汀,兄弟,跟你有关。

Everything's in Austin, dude, with you.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

好的。

Alright.

Speaker 1

我现在得走了。

Now I do have to go.

Speaker 0

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 0

行吧。

Alright.

Speaker 0

那我们

Let's

Speaker 2

走吧。

go.

Speaker 2

和你们聊天真开心。

Always a pleasure, guys.

Speaker 1

挺有意思的。

That was fun.

Speaker 0

再见了,各位。

See you, boys.

Speaker 0

保重啊。

Have a good one.

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