第五季 第13集 | 约什·菲根与贝琳达·辛克莱尔，来自Domain

还记得我们以前经常谈论无纸化办公、电子商务的时候吗？

Remember when we used to talk about the paperless office, ecommerce,

在纸上签署合同，

signing a contract on paper,

甚至还要给代理的传呼机号码？

and even giving out an agent's pager number?

我们生活在一个移动的世界里。

We're in a mobile world.

我们身处

We're in

一个移动的世界，你的业务也必须跟上。

a mobile world, and your business needs to be too.

这是一个数字世界。

It's a digital world.

工作流程正在改变，我们的体验也是如此。

Workflow is changing, and so too are our experiences.

目前有超过350家房地产科技公司正在争夺这一市场。

There are over 350 prop tech players right now competing for the space.

你如何跟上它们所有人的步伐？

How do you keep up with their all?

接下来会怎样？

And what's next?

欢迎来到《创始人》播客，

Welcome to Founders,

由乔什·菲根带来的全新播客，

a new podcast with Josh Phegan

探讨房地产领域工作流程的未来。

on the future of workflow in real estate.

这是一个高度竞争的世界。

It's a highly competitive world.

如果你真想在商业上出类拔萃，就必须学会如何竞争。

And if you're gonna be seriously good in business, you've gotta learn how to compete.

那么，顶尖的经纪人和经纪公司究竟是如何确保自己在这个高度竞争的环境中脱颖而出的呢？

So what are the best agents and agencies really do to make sure that they compete in that highly competitive world?

今天在《创始人》节目中，我们邀请到了Domain公司澳大利亚和新西兰地区的销售与经纪人绩效负责人贝琳达·辛克莱尔。

Well, today on Founders, we've got Belinda Sinclair, head of sales and agent performance across Australia and New Zealand for Domain.

贝琳达，非常高兴你今天能来到这里。

Belinda, it's so great to have you here today.

你能比其他人更早地看到很多东西。

You get to see, like, a lot of things, well, before anyone else gets to see them.

让我们聊聊你看到的一些精彩洞察，以及那些即将显现的趋势。

Let's talk a little bit about what are some of the great insights and some of the things that you've seen that are gonna get picked up on some trends.

今天，我知道我们会讨论受众、市场变化以及品牌定位。

And today, I know we're gonna talk about audiences and market shifts and positioning for brands.

总的来说，作为半个预言者，能够提前看到行业即将发生的变化，这种感觉究竟是怎样的？

Overall, like, literally, what does it feel like to be able to be, like, semi the oracle to be able to see some of the things that are gonna happen before they actually happen in the industry?

你好，乔什。

Well, hello, Josh.

今天能聊天真是太棒了。

Awesome to be talking today.

没错，这正是我工作中最喜爱且感到荣幸的一部分：能够看到数据和趋势，观察澳大利亚和新西兰各地发生的变化，进而深入到我所说的细分市场，了解那里正在发生的关键趋势，并指导对话，与我们的代理合作伙伴探讨他们该如何为即将到来的销售季做准备。

And, absolutely, that's one of the things I love and am privileged to have as part of my job is the ability to see data and trends and watch what's happening both across Australia and New Zealand to be but be able to hone into markets and micro markets as I call it, to see what key trends are happening there and be able to guide the conversations and talk to our agent partners on how do they prepare for the upcoming season.

是的。

Yeah.

这对任何经纪公司来说都是一件非常有趣的事，因为你已经看到了许多不同的趋势。

This is a really interesting thing for any agency because you've seen lots of different trends.

我认为，Domain 一直能够提供一些出色的洞察，比如，大家在节礼日就迫不及待地挂牌，进入一月后密集进行拍卖，一直持续到二月初。

And I think that, like, you know, Domain has been able to provide some great insights about, for example, you know, the whole let's get it listed on Boxing Day for January and do lots of auctions into early February.

这确实是澳大利亚某些地区的一种趋势，极大地推动了交易量。

That's certainly been a trend in certain sections of Australia, which really push push volume.

此外，还要鼓励代理在冬季期间促成交易，或确保他们为春季销售季做好准备。

Also too about trying to encourage agents to sell over a winter period or being able to make sure they get ready for a spring period.

但你实际上能观察到所有相关趋势：人们何时上传房源、房源在市场上的停留时间，以及市场是否开始回暖。

But you can actually see all of the trends around when are people actually uploading properties, how long the property is actually staying on market for, whether or not a market starting to improve.

换句话说，他们成交的速度、挂牌量的高低，观察起来一定非常有趣。

In other words, that the speed at which they're selling or literally a low level of listings or a high level of listings, it must be pretty interesting to watch.

城市环境比地区环境更好吗？还是说这种情况会随着时间不断演变和变化？

Are city environments better than regional environments, or is it something that constantly evolves and changes over time?

是的。

Yeah.

这就是为什么我喜欢上周参加的一个演示，我们当时正在绘制悉尼下北岸、上北岸和北部郊区的市场图。

That's why I love I was actually at a presentation last week, and we're mapping out the Lower North Shore Of Sydney, Upper North Shore, the Northern Suburbs.

观察下北岸和上北岸，它们深受季节性、学校假期和公共假期的影响，而与此同时，北部郊区却逆势而上，在其他地区低迷时仍保持着挂牌高峰。

And watching the Lower North and Upper North Shores really driven by what's ever happening with seasonality, the school holidays, public holidays, and then you have a market like the Northern Suburbs sitting alongside that's bucking the trend and having peak listing volumes while the others are, you know, a lot softer.

因此，我很享受能够利用这些数据，我认为我们的合作伙伴往往忽视了这一点，没有充分利用Domain提供的数据来规划下一季的策略。

So I love being able to, and I think that's one of the opportunities that probably our partners take for granted and don't use their domain partners enough is to us about the data that we're seeing so they can plan for the season ahead.

无论你身处一个较为平淡的冬季，是否意味着接下来会迎来一个火爆的春季？你该如何为此做准备？

And whether you're in, you know, a softer winter and does that mean you're gonna come in and have a a boom spring and how do you prepare for that?

你该如何利用这些数据和洞察，来引导你与业主的对话，而不是仅仅套用‘春季挂牌会很忙’这种标准说法？

And how do you use that data and insights actually help you guide the conversation with your vendor rather than just use the standard, you know, listing spring because that'll be really, really busy.

我看到那些优秀的经纪人正在利用这些洞察来引导这些微观市场中的对话。

And I see the really quality agents are using that insight to be able to guide those conversations within those micro markets.

有趣的是，学会读懂市场。

Know, You the interesting thing about this is, like, learning how to read the market.

我过去知道春天来了，是因为马路对面的一家竞争对手会在窗台上放一些水仙花，旁边还贴着一张小纸条，写着‘春天来了’。

The way that I used to know that I was in spring was that one of our competitors down the road used to put some daffodils in the window with a little sign that said spring has sprung.

我当时就想，哦，这意味着我们得赶紧开始挂牌了。

And I was like, oh, that's that's that means we better get on and start listing.

但现在我的做法完全不同了。

And now I'm actually very different.

我们现在关注的是数据和洞察，特别是关于这一点。

We're actually looking, you specifically about, like, data and insights.

我稍微研究过的一件事是摄影师的预约情况。

And one of the things that I've looked at a little bit has actually been photographer's bookings.

如果我能了解摄影师什么时候拍摄房产，这大概就能让我推测出这些房源什么时候会上线到Domain平台。

So if I can actually get a photographer's bookings around when are they photographing properties, that probably then gives me an idea about then when it's then gonna be loaded to Domain.

所以我对经纪人会说，嘿。

And so what I would actually say to agents said, hey.

你知道，无论你身处假日市场还是普通的父母市场，到底会发生什么？

You know, if you're in a holiday market or whether or not you're in a normal mom and dad market, what actually does happen?

有趣的是，我认为在墨尔本杯之后，许多经纪人会停止今年的房源挂牌，转而开始为明年挂牌。

And the interesting thing is is that I reckon that post Melbourne Cup, a lot of agents tend to stop listing properties for this year, and they start listing them for next year.

但我问过摄影师们，你们得把圣诞树从照片里搬多少次？他们说次数不多，这意味着实际上到了十二月，他们的工作节奏就开始放缓了，而我在很多市场里要到一月中旬才真正开始忙起来。

But I asked the photographers how many times do you have to move the Christmas tree out of the photo, and they said not many, which which means that ultimately they're in a position that probably they really start to slow down by that December, that I don't don't really pick up tools until probably mid January in a lot of markets.

而我们实际看到的趋势恰恰相反，一些全国最优秀的经纪人正专注于说，嘿。

And what we've actually seen is a reverse of that trend that some of the best agents in the country are really focused about saying, hey.

让我们在十一月尽可能多地挂牌，为2026年及以后的营销活动做好准备，你信不信？

Let's list as much as we can in that November to get ready for our campaigns for the start of, believe it or not, 2026 and beyond.

你注意到一个非常有趣的现象，就是很多经纪人正希望与你们合作，说，嘿。

That's actually a really interesting thing that you've seen a lot of about where agents are looking to partner with you and to say, hey.

看。

Look.

你知道，我们能做些什么来确保吸引到正确的受众吗？

You know, what can we do to make sure that we get the right audience?

我想，这对任何房地产经纪人来说都是最重要的事情之一：说起来容易， okay。

And I guess that's one of the biggest things for any real estate agent is it's like it's fine to say, okay.

很好。

Great.

你知道，我有个网站。

You know, I've got a website.

我有一些电子邮件。

I've got some email.

我也有东西可以发到社交媒体上。

I've got something I can go to put on social.

但你现在真正开始思考的是受众的变化。

But what you're now really starting to think about is how audiences are changing.

现在我会想，作为消费者，你如何找到我？我其实非常难接触，因为基本的前提是，我可能不太看电视。

Now I think about how you get to me as a consumer, and I'm really, really hard because the basic foundational idea is that, like, I'm I probably don't watch much TV.

我其实不太看报纸了。

I'm not really reading many newspapers.

从这个角度来看，你该怎么接触到我呢？

So from that point of view, how do you actually get access to me?

但我知道一件事，我知道你可能会稍微皱一下眉头，但我知道自己准备换房子的方式就是重新下载Domain应用，再次开始搜索。

But there's one thing that I know, and I I know you're gonna maybe cringe a little bit here for two seconds, but the way that I know that I'm ready to change house is I redownload the Domain app and start searching again.

这就像那种情况，因为一旦我买了房子，我就会删掉它，你知道的，就删几周，然后再重新安装。

And that's, like, kind of that thing because once I bought, I delete it, you know, just for a couple of weeks and then bring it back on.

这难道不是关于受众的一个有趣现象吗？

I mean, that an interesting thing about audiences?

我们该如何构建受众呢？

How do how do we build audiences?

如今Domain的受众是什么样的？它如何帮助我更频繁地接触到更多消费者？

What's Domain's audience like these days in terms of helping me to be able to get in front of more consumers more often?

当然。

Absolutely.

我认为，任何希望在自己的市场中保持竞争力并处于顶尖水平的人，都必须能够直视供应商的眼睛，对他们说：我们已经充分提升了您房产的曝光度和覆盖范围。

And I think anyone who wants to be competitive and at the top of their game in their market needs to make sure they can look a vendor in the eye and, you know, say to them that we've been able to maximize the reach and the exposure of your property.

我认为，在过去几年的房地产行业中，有些市场的经纪人变得越来越懒惰。

And I think, you know, what I've seen over the last few years in real estate is in some markets, some agents get lazier.

当面对业主对VPA的震惊，以及对如今卖房成本的疑问时，人们惊讶于过去五到十年的变化，于是出现了一场迅速向低价竞争的下滑。

And as the pressure comes on in terms of wondering how, you know, the vendors with VPA shock and wondering what it cost to sell a house these days are surprised by the changes over the last five or ten years, and there's a quick race to the bottom.

我担心的是，我们会在行业中变得懒惰，而不是去提升自己，也不去教育业主。

And what I worry about is that we start to get lazy in an industry rather than educate ourselves and educate the vendors.

你可以把Domain作为一个例子，它拥有超过七百万用户，并且每年以超过10%的速度增长，这个市场仍在持续扩大。

And you use the Domain side as an example where you've got over 7,000,000 users growing over 10% year on year so that market continues to, increase.

有超过一百万人在使用Domain，却从未使用过其他任何平台。

And there's over a million people who are using Domain who are not using any other platforms.

因此，当问题变成：我如何确保将房产营销并曝光给每一个潜在买家——无论是刚重新下载App的Josh，还是已经浏览了几个月甚至几年在寻找房产的人——你都不想错过任何一个买家。

And so when the question is, how do I make sure that I'm marketing and exposing the property to every possible potential buyer, whether they're Josh who have just redownloaded the app or someone who's been scrolling for for months and years trying to find their property, you don't wanna miss a buyer.

我认为，经纪人只需要掌握少数几个关键洞察，就能在不到三十秒内清晰地说明：为什么我需要入驻Domain？

And I I think there's just a handful of key insights that an agent needs to educate themselves on to be able to articulate in less than thirty seconds, you know, why do I need to load on Domain?

我为什么需要使用社交媒体？

Why do I need to use social media?

我为什么需要航拍摄影？

Why do I need drone photography?

当你被业主问到这些问题时，你的回应以及你对回应的自信，将直接影响他们对你作为经纪人的信任与信心。

And your response and your confidence in that response, the minute you're asked from a vendor is gonna guide that trust and confidence in you as an agent.

这正是整个关于消费者行为的讨论——有时候，消费者甚至没有意识到自己的行为，直到有人指出来这才是他们的行为模式。

And this is that whole conversation about, like, you know, sometimes consumers are not even aware of what their behavior is until someone actually points out that that's your behavior.

所以这是一个非常基础的核心理念。

So a really basic foundational idea.

我浏览了一个在Domain上非常棒的房源列表。

I went through a really lovely listing in Domain.

那位经纪人邀请我去看一下。

The agent invited me to come and have a quick look.

我去看了那个房源。

I went and had a look at the listing.

我离开时收到了一条短信。

And as I left, I received an SMS.

这就是家门通行证在发挥作用。

Now there's home pass in action.

我点击链接，让你再次查看该房产。

And I click on the link and let you then see the property again.

这没问题。

That's fine.

但我实际对这个链接做的操作是，把它转发给我好朋友康。

But what I actually do with the link is I then forward it on to my good friend, Con.

我把它转发给我妈妈，你都想不到。

I forward it onto my mom, and you wouldn't believe it.

三四天后，我妈妈给我打电话，说：‘亲爱的，你买下那房子了吗？’

Three or four days later, my mom rings me and she goes, oh, honey, have you bought that house yet?

我回答：‘你什么意思？’

I'm like, what do you mean?

她说，这个房源信息在社交媒体上一直跟着我。

She goes, it's following me all across social media.

因此，经纪人自然会使用社交推广功能，从而精准定位到那些影响决策的利益相关者。

And so, naturally, the agents use Social Boost, and then it's literally then finding that audience even to the stakeholders who are then influencing the decision.

现在这个基础性的理念是，你知道，在过去，我们只是把它发布在Domain上，然后就完事了。

Now the interesting foundational idea is that, you know, what we're really seeing you know, this is the in the old school days, kinda you kinda put it onto Domain, and that's gonna be it.

但如今你实际上要说：等等，有点不对劲。

Whereas now you're actually saying, hang on a second.

现在有一整套配套工具可以使用。

There's a whole suite of tools that are available that come with that.

比如，你所做的邮件群发或电子宣传册，还有就是关于如何提升或降低搜索结果排名的讨论。

So there's things, for example, that what you're doing in terms of the email blast or e brochures that go out, then there's the conversation of, like, you know, bumping it up and down in terms of the search results.

然后还有另一部分，就是说，好吧。

Then there's the whole part about saying, okay.

现在我们要加上社交推广这个功能。

Now we're gonna add the social boost component to it.

并且理解在您营销活动的不同阶段，您现在拥有不同的工具，这些工具作为您订阅服务的一部分，使整个过程变得非常灵活。

And understanding that at different stages throughout the course of your campaign, you now have different tools that actually make it really flexible as a part of your subscription.

为什么这对房产经纪人来说很重要？

And why this is important for an agent?

如果您即将出售房产，也许可以使用这种提升或社交媒体推广功能。

If you're about to sell a property, you know, maybe use that bump or maybe use that social boost.

如果您需要发送额外的邮件推广，或者遇到价格调整，那就务必清楚您目前有哪些可用的工具。

If you're in a position to do that extra email blast, if you've got a price change, then ultimately know what tools that you've actually got available.

如今，房产经纪人多么重要地需要开始认真思考如何提升受众质量，以及在营销活动的不同阶段使用不同工具，在关键时机扩大受众群体。

How important is it now for agents to start to really think about the improvement a of that audience, but also to using the different tools at different stages inside of the campaign to grow the audience at impactful moments.

是的。

Yeah.

因为我们知道，我们只有几周的时间来最大化房产的受众覆盖和曝光度。

Because we know we only have a few weeks that we are trying to maximize the audience and the exposure of the property.

我们想要做的，首先是吸引注意力。

And what we wanna do is, one, capture the attention.

我们希望被看到，确保房产被看到，但同时我们也希望它在不同场景下反复出现。

We wanna be seen, make sure the property is seen, but then we want the property seen over and over again and in different environments.

正如你所说，拥有这一整套互补的解决方案非常重要——无论用户是通过App浏览、在社交媒体上看到、收到App通知，还是在重发电子邮件或邮件推广时接触到该房产。

And as you talked about, the way that having that complimentary suite of solutions in terms of where that property is gonna be exposed from when they jump onto the app to when it's fed up in social to when they receive it in a notification on their app to when they refill a a EDM or email blast on that property.

我们知道，这种重复出现的行为会逐渐形成，让人们感觉房产仿佛在跟踪他们，进而产生一种‘这可能是我的家’的感觉。

We know we start to create that repetitious behavior where people do feel like a property's following them and start to feel like that's a sign that maybe that's home for them.

但有时我们并不清楚自己是在哪个时刻被反复推送的。

And we don't know sometimes at what point in time we are being fed up.

我们之所以反复推送这个房源，是因为如果有人赶着送孩子上学、匆匆一瞥，很可能不会产生共鸣。

We are feeding up that listing because if someone's running to drop off the kids and quickly see the property, it's probably not gonna resonate.

但如果有人在周六早上边喝咖啡边刷手机时看到这条信息，就会真正留下深刻印象。

But if someone's scrolling on a Saturday morning and it's fed up while they're having a coffee, that starts to really sink in.

我们知道，通常正是在这些时刻，你会收到更多的邮件咨询、分享或收藏——正如你提到的，乔什。

And we know we often they're the times that you get your increase in email inquiries or shares or saves as you referred to as well, Josh.

所以我认为，重要的是不仅要采用一种能自动将信息推送给正确人群、在正确时间出现的解决方案，还要能掌控整个营销活动，影响它的推进节奏。

So I think really important not just to allow that you, you know, are going with a solution that's gonna or be automated to feed up where it needs to go to the right people at the right time, but that you have control to, you know, influence that campaign and, you know, how it's gonna be accelerated.

如果你有一个很棒的开放日周末，这通常不会让你对营销计划感到自满，但你该如何进一步提升呢？

And if you have a great weekend of open for inspections, that's often, not to get complacent about the campaign, but how do you ramp up?

你如何确保周六能有十组人来看房？

How do you start making sure that you have, you know, 10 groups through on a Saturday?

你如何确保让这十组人回来，并再带来另外十组，因为那正是你推送了社交媒体或邮件提醒的一周？

How do you make sure you bring the 10 back and add another 10 because that's the week you pushed out your social, or email alert as well.

这也是一个非常重要的部分，就是当某个异议不断出现时，你该如何学会克服它？

And this is a really important part too is of, like, you know, when an objection continually comes up, how do you learn how to overcome that objection?

前几天，有一位经纪人跟我说，嘿。

And so one of the things that I had an agent saying the other day, hey.

我即将去挂牌这个房源。

I'm about to go and list this property.

这个区域对我来说是外地的。

It's out of area for me.

其中一个担忧是我们没有该区域的买家数据库，因为我们不是主导经纪人。

And one of the concerns is that we don't have a database of buyers in that area because we're not the dominant agent.

我对他说，那你为什么不跟他聊聊Domain早期访问功能呢？

And I said to him, well, why don't you just talk to him about Domain Early Access?

他回答说，哦，好的。

He's like, oh, okay.

是的，他们会告诉我这个功能是怎么运作的。

Well, yeah, they'll tell me how that works.

整个对话的核心是，Domain实际上掌握着所有潜在买家的信息，你现在可以提前接触到非常精准的受众群体，不仅在发布前，甚至在上市后也能对这些特定受众进行再营销。

And that's that whole conversation about saying, well, Domain actually does know all of the buyers that are sitting in there, and you've got now very specific audiences that you can get access to prior to launching and then also to when you're then on the market and then retargeting those those particular audiences.

所以这不仅仅是受众规模的问题。

So it's not just about the size of the audience.

更重要的是受众的质量。

It is also too about the quality of that audience.

我们最近开始注意到一些情况，前几天我看到一项研究，说人们每天在移动设备上花费六到八个小时，现在我们听说澳大利亚人连从一个房间走到另一个房间时，都忍不住要看视频。

And what we're now starting to see I saw some research the other day about six to eight hours a day on a mobile device, and we're now hearing that Australians are having trouble about walking from one room to the next without watching a video whilst they do it.

所以给我们讲讲Platinum Edge中的Reels部分，目前进展如何？

So tell us a little bit about the a Reels part as a part of Platinum Edge and what's happening there now.

是的

Yeah.

正如你所说，我们非常关注消费者行为的变化，尤其是我们花在手机上甚至Reels上的时间之多，这令人担忧。

We're really mindful, as you say, consumer behavior changing and a scary behavior is how much time we're spending on our phones and even on Reels.

我知道这种微小的行为模式——比如在去洗手间或厨房的路上随便刷一刷。

And I know that that micro behavior of I'll just have a a quick scroll on the way to the to the bathroom or the kitchen.

因此，就在几个月前，我们在Domain Platinum Edge中推出了一项新功能。

And so, just a couple of months ago, we launched a new feature into Domain Platinum Edge.

除了我们已经是唯一在Platinum Edge列表产品中整合了社交媒体推广与扩展功能的平台外，我们现在还新增了视频和Reels的制作功能，因为我们知道人们正是通过这种方式进行搜索的。

So in addition, we already are the only platform that includes a social media, rollout and expansion in our listing product to Platinum Edge, but also that now we've converted and create videos or reels because we know that's how people are searching.

当内容以Reels形式分享时，用户的互动率比以静态图片形式分享时高出两到三倍。

And the engagement is two to three more times likely to engage with that video content when it's shared as a reel opposed as a, you know, a stagnant

或静态的。

Or static.

静态的，是的。

A static Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

静态图片。

Static photo.

整个对话实际上是有人告诉我，这种实时内容非常重要，因为在某种程度上，孤立的静态内容已经过时了。

And that that's that whole conversation is literally someone was saying to me that, like, you know, this whole live content's a really important part because it's almost in some respects that static is dead in isolation.

但如果他们通过视频进入，点击后转到静态内容，就会继续浏览照片。

But yet if they get in via the video, they click on it, then they go to the static, then they're gonna go through the photos.

他们会查看平面图。

They look at the floor plan.

他们会阅读正文内容。

They read the body copy.

上周末，我自己就做过这样的事，我不是打算搬家，贝尔，但我一直在刷Domain应用。

I found myself doing that on the weekend, not looking to move, Bel, but I was scrolling on the Domain app.

这整个话题就是关于认真观察和理解这些内容。

And that's that whole conversation around, like, really looking at things and understanding it.

除了受众之外，这还关乎市场变化的讨论。

Apart from audience then, it's also too about the conversation around market shifts.

其中一件事是，你知道，我们经历过一些剧烈的市场波动。

And one of the things, like, you know, we've ridden some wild markets.

你知道，我是在全球金融危机期间开始我的培训生涯的。

You know, I started my training career in the middle of the GFC.

我记得有一次上了出租车，司机问我过得怎么样。

I remember getting in the back of a taxi, and the taxi driver said, how are going?

他说，我的生意非常好。

He said, my business is awesome.

我们今年的业绩是去年的两倍。

We've done double the numbers of last year.

他几乎所有人都在失业。

He's like, nearly everyone's losing their job.

你是怎么做到的？

How are you doing that?

我当时想，去年我根本什么都没做，但这个基本理念其实是关于真正地学习成长。

I'm like, I just did nothing last year, but that basic idea is about, like, really learning about growth.

能跟我们讲讲，有哪些早期的指标或你关注的方面，可以帮助你预测市场变化吗？Domain收集了哪些对经纪人特别有用的数据洞察？

Tell us a little bit about what are some of the early indicators or things that you look and how you can predict some of the market shifts, and and what are some of the things that Domain collects as data that's a really useful insight for agents?

是的。

Yeah.

总的来说，我认为一个有趣的洞察是消费者情绪的变化，你提到了全球金融危机，这一点很关键。

Well, as a general rule, I think one interesting insight, and you talked about the GFC, is what's happening with consumer sentiment.

如果我们看一下，我想人们会惊讶地发现，过去几个月消费者情绪正出现一些积极的回升。

And if we look at I I think people will be surprised to know we are just coming out with some more positive uplifts in consumer sentiment over the last few months.

但过去两年，消费者情绪一直像疫情期间和全球金融危机时那样低迷或悲观。

But the last couple of years, consumer sentiment has been in line with as negative or as pessimistic as it was in the pandemic and then at the GFC.

所以我们经历了一段艰难时期，但现在市场中消费者情绪正在显现积极信号。

So we've had some tough times, but we are seeing positivity come out in the market in terms of consumer sentiment.

我们看到拍卖成交率表现强劲。

We're seeing strong auction clearance rates.

我们看到利率正在下降。

We're seeing interest rates drop.

赞美主。

Hallelujah.

数据显示，如果你关注拍卖成交率、房屋挂牌天数和挂牌量的变化趋势，通常就能预测或至少帮助卖家了解当前市场状况以及未来几个月的预期走向。

And what the data is showing us is if you watch that combination of what's happening with auction clearance rates, what's happening with days on market, what's happening with listing volumes, you can often start to predict or at least prepare and educate a vendor on what the market looks like now and where we expect it to be over the next few months.

我举一个几个月前发生的例子，当时我们看到利率非常高。

And I use an example that happened a couple of months months ago where we were seeing really high interest rates.

在国家大部分地区，利率都高达7%左右。

So interest rates sitting in the 70% in most markets around the country.

但与此同时，房屋挂牌天数也达到了近几年来的最高水平。

But then we were also seeing days on market peak at some of the highest days it's been over the last few years.

于是你就面临这样一个有趣的矛盾。

And so you've got this interesting conundrum.

如果你把房产拿去拍卖，那么成交的机会可能会很大。

If you're taking the property to auction, then you might have a great chance of selling a property.

但如果卖不掉，它可能会在市场上滞留五六十天甚至七十天。

But if it doesn't sell, then it may be sitting on the market for fifty, sixty, seventy days.

是的。

Mhmm.

因此，我利用这些指标来分析买家和卖家的状况，以及价格预期，这真的有助于指导我们决定：第一，采用哪种方式将房产推向市场最合适，以及如何向卖家解释为什么我们必须全力通过拍卖或拍卖后尽快售出。

And so I said using that sort of indicator in terms of what does that tell us about buyers, what does that tell us about vendors and price expectations really helps to guide I think, you know, making decisions on one, what's the best method to take the property to market and how do I educate the vendor on why we need to go all in on selling this at auction or soon after?

因为确实存在市场滞销时间延长的现实，我们需要应对这一点。

Because there is the reality of longer days on market and how we manage that.

甚至还要与卖家提前规划好拍卖前的营销策略会是什么样子。

And even planning out with the vendor on what that campaign could look like in the lead up to the auction.

如果万一没能售出，我们也要准备好如何在之后迅速完成交易。

And if by any chance we didn't sell, how do we prepare to, you know, close it soon after as well.

Founders 由乔什·费根数字公司倾情呈现。

Founders is brought to you by Josh Phegan Digital.

当我们决定创建乔什·费根数字公司时，我们有一个完整的想法：培训必须是按需提供的。

You know, when we were setting out to go and create Josh Phegan Digital, we just had this whole idea that we wanted training to be on demand.

你知道，我们生活中的一切都是随时可得的。

You know, and everything in our life is on demand.

我们只需在Netflix应用里点播放，或在YouTube、Spotify上点播放即可。

We just press play inside of the Netflix app, we press play on YouTube, play on Spotify.

那为什么我们不能直接点播放来学习培训内容呢？

Why couldn't we just press play on training?

我们决定要让内容对房地产经纪人特别实用，这样每天只需几分钟，如果你想，就能提升自己，以新的方式成长。

And what we decided is we wanna be like super relevant to real estate agents so that in under a couple of minutes each day, if you wanted to, you could upscale and you could grow in new ways.

于是我们决定推出一个叫《编辑》的内容，它每周都会汇总全国各地最新的房产新闻。

And so we decided that we were gonna release this thing that we called the edit, which is basically the latest in property news stories that's happening every week right the way around the country.

这样你就能在与买家沟通时保持极度敏锐。

So you could be incredibly sharp in your conversations with sellers.

接着我们推出了短课程，专注于快速提升技能，比如如何提高佣金，或者如何聘请助理。

And then we build out the short courses, which is all about rapidly building skills, you know, whether or not it's about learning how to get better fees or to put on an assistant.

然后我们还希望让你能直接获取操作蓝图，这样你就不用每年苦苦等待了。

And then we actually wanted to give you access to blueprints so you didn't have to wait for it every year.

你可以随时观看，从零开始掌握目标设定、自我能量管理、客户开发、挂牌、谈判等所有关键技能，并建立一套属于自己的工作体系。

You could just watch it whenever you wanted and actually go from zero to hero around everything that it takes from goal setting, self energy management, what you're doing around prospecting, listing, negotiation, and actually just have a system for the way that you work.

同时，通过黑白访谈形式，向行业内的顶尖人物汲取灵感。

Together with, you know, getting really inspired by some of the best people in the industry with the black and white interviews.

Josh Phegan Digital 已上线 iOS 和 Android 平台。

Josh Phegan Digital is available on iOS and also on Android.

这是一款非凡的应用，能为你提供成为更优秀房产代理所需的一切资源。

It's an incredible app, and it gives you everything that you'll need to be a much better agent.

是时候开启了。

It's time to switch on.

我有一位在双湾合作的客户，名字不便透露，但他经手的都是顶级高端交易。

I have a client that I do work with in Double Bay who shall remain nameless, but he does a lot of the very, very high end transactions.

他告诉我，房子要么在前三周内售出，要么就得等三年。

And he said to me, it either sells in the first three weeks or it takes three years.

这让你开始思考，从这个角度看，了解销售方式和策略是一场至关重要的对话。

And it just starts to get you to think that, like, you know, from this perspective, it's about understanding, you know, sale method and approach is a really important conversation.

而且我们其实很少谈到这一点。

And and we don't really talk about as much.

这是个美国术语，关于库存。

It's very US term about inventory.

对吧？

Right?

比如，假设一个市场中有100套房子，每月卖出10套，那就意味着有十个月的库存量。

Like, in that so let's say, for example, there's a 100 houses in a market and there's 10 selling a month, that means you have ten months worth of inventory.

如果突然间每月的销量从10套增加到20套，那么现在就只剩下五个月的库存量了。

If all of a sudden that 10 sales a month goes to 20, then now all a sudden you only have five months worth of inventory.

这实际上表明市场开始发生变化了。

And so that actually suggests that the market's starting to move.

因此，一个早期的指标是：有多少新房源进入市场，每月实际售出多少房源，这些数据能帮助你更好地判断市场是否开始活跃。

And so one of the early indicators is how many new properties are coming to market, how many properties are actually selling each month, which will start to give you a bit of an improvement on an idea about whether or not things are starting to move.

然后我会看看借贷能力，也就是乔什能借到多少钱，以及他的还款负担。

And then I have a look at borrowing capacity, so how much money can Josh go to borrow, but also to servicing costs.

那么，他实际偿还这笔贷款需要多少成本？

So what does it cost him to actually go to service that?

除此之外，我还关注市场的氛围，有时也被称为媒体情绪。

And then also in addition to that, what I go to call the mood of the market or better known sometimes as media sentiment.

所以人们在说，嘿。

So people saying, hey.

赶紧入手，去买房，抓住这个机会，还是他们在说，嘿。

Get in and go and buy and go make this happen, or are they saying, hey.

先别急。

Hold back.

最终，你开始看到大量报告，尤其是拍卖成交率方面的数据。

And, ultimately, what you're starting to see is a lot of the reporting that's coming through, particularly on the auction clearance rates.

我认为墨尔本在这方面表现得非常突出，悉尼目前也是如此，布里斯班势头强劲，阿德莱德和珀斯也是如此。

I think Melbourne's a really clear leader on this, and as is Sydney at the moment, and Brisbane's firing like there's no tomorrow, and so is Adelaide, and so is Perth.

天啊。

Jeez.

一切都感觉进行得相当顺利

It all feels like it's going pretty

很好。

well.

每个人都在大放异彩。

Everyone's on fire.

因为还没人提到霍巴特和达尔文，但它们的表现其实也非常出色。

Because no one's mentioned Hobart or Darwin yet, but but they are doing really well.

而有趣的是，你开始感受到，在经历了一段低迷期后，人们开始向往光明。

And the interesting conversation is that what you're starting to feel is that after a period of bleakness, people look for sunshine.

我认为这正是我能抓住的机会，我可以行动起来，真正去买房或做那些事情。

And I think that that's really what, you know, what I can get on, and I can make a move and do and actually buy a house or do some of those things.

除了经济周期性的趋势之外，还有更重大的结构性转变，比如婴儿潮一代的变化。

And also to outside of the cyclical economical trends, there's also much larger shifts, for example, like the shifts in baby boomers.

我爸爸总是说，嘿。

And my dad always said, hey.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我们有很多钱，但时间不多。

We've got lot of money and not much time.

你有没有发现，有些市场或房产类型无论整体市场如何，都能表现得非常好，因为它们瞄准的是那些根本不太关注宏观市场动态的细分群体？

Is that some of the things that literally that you find pockets within pockets of markets that do or styles of properties that do really well regardless of the market of the day because it's going after a segment that literally maybe doesn't pay too much attention to what actually is happening more broadly.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

过去十二个月里，一个被注意到的现象是利率变化对不同市场产生的影响程度各不相同。

One thing that has been picked up over the last twelve months is the impact of interest rates and how that affects certain markets more than others.

那些借款人还款能力较强、但高利率对其冲击尤为明显、不得不被迫出售房产的市场。

Those markets that, you know, people have high borrowing power and have potentially, you know, the hit of high interest rates really impacted them and needed to sell.

所以人们很惊讶地发现，那些拥有500万美元房产的人，也因背负巨额房贷而感到压力巨大，不得不被迫交易脱手，因为要维持如此高的房贷实在太艰难了。

So I think people were surprised to hear people that owned a $5,000,000 property were really feeling the pinch of the mega mortgage that they had and needing to transact out of that because of how tough that was trying to carry a high mortgage.

而在其他市场，你提到过一些老年群体，他们对高利率完全无感，甚至很高兴，因为他们的钱都投资出去了。

And you'll have other markets where you pointed out where you might have an older demographic that were perfectly comfortable through high interest rates because they were actually cheering because they had all their money invested.

所以我们确实看到了这种转变。

So, we do see that shift.

这可能正是过去几个月随着利率下降，我们开始看到悉尼和墨尔本房价出现变动的原因——这些市场在利率下降后，购房者的借贷能力显著增强，房贷压力减轻，房价也开始回升。

It's probably why over the last few months as we see interest rates come down, we've started to see a shift in price out of Sydney and Melbourne And those markets where the the impact of having interest rates come down allow them to have significantly more borrowing power or ease the stress of the mortgages and starting to see price.

我认为，这还可以作为与卖家沟通的一个有力工具：利用价格预测，Domain 每季度都会发布关于房价走势的预测报告。

And I think that's another conversation that can be used well in vendors is using price forecasting and Domain Launch rate sends out every quarter an update on what are the predictions around price.

而且，我们在这方面一直保持着相当准确的记录。

And the reason, you know, we've got a pretty good track record on getting that reasonably accurate.

但未来十二个月，大多数州，尤其是悉尼，预计房价将上涨6%至7%，我们可以利用这些数据与卖家或买家沟通，解释为什么现在是买入或卖出的好时机。

But the price forecast for the next twelve months across, most of the states, particularly Sydney's expected at six to 7% is using that data again to have a conversation with the vendor or a buyer on why buy now, why, why sell now.

同样，我认为，只要掌握一些关键洞察，通过学习并使用应用中的 Domain 研究板块来提升自己的专业能力，你就能做出更明智的决策，为你的卖家和买家提供符合他们利益且时机恰当的建议。

And again, I just think a handful of insights, can be used if you can educate yourself and use the Domain Research tab in the app, to help educate yourself to allow you to have informed decisions and guide your vendors and buyers on what's right for them and the right timing.

我总是说，作为一名优秀的房产中介，你必须知道该对买家说什么、对卖家说什么，以及对现有卖家说什么，才能让他们在当前的市场条件下顺利成交，无论那是什么价格。

And I always say as a great agent, you need to know what do you say to a buyer, what do you say to a seller, and what do you say to a current vendor to allow them to be able to proceed at today's market price, you know, and and whatever that is.

这是一次非常重要的基础性对话。

And that's a really important foundational conversation.

在所有这些市场变化发生的同时，你还能近距离观察企业，了解它们的盈利能力、业绩和效率。

With all of those market shifts that actually goes on, you're also to get the benefit of being right next to businesses and having a look at their profitability, their performance, their efficiency.

我们看到，在过去五年左右的时间里，房地产科技的数量出现了巨大增长。

And what we've seen is ultimately over the last five or so years, there was a massive explosion in the amount of property technology that was available.

能跟我们聊聊，现在人们开始做什么来提升盈利能力或利润率吗？

Talk to us a little bit about what you're seeing people now starting to do, you know, as as ultimately to try to drive profitability or drive margin.

他们是否应该审视自己技术栈中的某些方面？

And are there any things that they should be looking at inside of their tech stack to see?

他们真的还需要那个应用程序吗？

Do they actually need that app anymore?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这很有趣，因为正如你所说，过去五年里，科技解决方案出现了爆炸式增长。

I think it's an interesting one because as you said, over the last five years, been an explosion of tech solutions.

作为企业主，我们总想创造竞争优势，保持生产力，打造高效的业务。

And as business owners wanting to always create that competitive advantage, stay productive, stay create an efficient business.

很多企业只是简单地说：‘好的，我要这个新功能。’

There has been a lot of businesses that has been just, you know, writing up, yes, I'll take that new feature.

‘好的，我要这个新产品’，却从未关注过每月在这些订阅服务上的支出情况。

Yes, I'll take that new product, and haven't watched the output in terms of how much they're spending month on month on those subscriptions.

我鼓励Domain以及其他大量房地产科技公司，在推出新产品和新功能的同时，也建议企业定期进行一次技术盘点，最好在年初、冬季业务相对清淡时安排年度审查，全面审视你的技术工具，明确哪些是你购买的功能，哪些是完整的产品，检查你的产品套件中是否已有某个产品内置了你从别处单独订阅的功能，并思考如何为自己创造效率，因为我知道，不断叠加订阅服务是不可持续的。

And what I do encourage Domain like, a whole lot of other prop techs do launch new products and new features, but we encourage our businesses to take a a tech, stock take as such and make sure on an annual review, schedule it in maybe for the start of the year when you're a little bit quieter in the winter downturn to review all your tech, understand what are you purchasing that is a feature versus what is a product, reviewing what in within your product suite may have that product already launched a feature that you're buying from someone else as a separate subscription, and look at how you can actually create efficiencies for yourself because I know it's not sustainable to just keep adding on subscription after subscription after subscription.

我们知道技术发展迅速，创新不断涌现，我们希望有能力投资于能够真正为你的业务带来正确竞争优势的下一个解决方案，同时也要意识到，技术也可能很快过时。

And we know tech moves fast and the innovations keep coming out and we want to be have the capacity to be able to invest in the next solution that's actually gonna drive the the right competitive advantage for your business, knowing that tech, you know, can get out of date pretty quickly as well.

这也是一个非常重要的讨论话题。

And this is the big conversation too.

确保所有员工都适应新系统的工作方式，这种再培训成本往往非常高昂，是组织变革中的一大开销。

Is it like, you know, that retraining cost of making sure that you get everyone across how things work is often, you know, quite an expensive thing about an organization getting into into change.

但我想说的是，我也非常认同这样一个观点：有时候，本该作为一个功能的东西，却被做成了一个独立产品。

But what I would say is that ultimately too, I love that whole idea of, like, like, sometimes what should have been a feature became a product.

而现在你实际上看到的是，这些产品现在正逐步跟上那些功能，并将它们重新纳入内部开发。

And now what you're actually seeing is that literally the products are now keeping up with some of those features, bringing them back in house.

你发现，你已经拥有的某些现有产品实际上包含了许多你之前不了解的功能，但你却还在为一个仅提供其中一小部分功能的订阅付费，而这个功能现在已成为更大体系的一部分。

And you're now finding that some of those existing products you've already got have got a lot more features than what you were aware of, and yet you're paying for a subscription that does exactly that one little part, which is now part of the bigger game.

作为对话的一部分，你非常擅长帮助人们进行定位。

As a conversation also to what you're really good at is helping people with positioning.

我总是认为，如果你不是市场上最便宜的房地产经纪人，那你打算如何取胜？

And I always think about this is that literally, if you're not gonna be the cheapest real estate agent in the marketplace, then how are you planning on winning?

对我来说，这始终关乎设计。

And to me, that's always about design.

因此，要认真思考你做事的方式以及它如何运作。

So really thinking through what you do when you do it and how how it works.

我长期以来一直使用这个说法，但我会说，嘿。

Now I've used this for a long time, but I say, hey.

你走进一家餐厅。

You go into a restaurant.

嘿。

Hey.

很高兴见到你。

Lovely to see you.

亚当，我帮您拿外套吗？

Adam, may I take your jacket?

有个小问题。

Quick question.

您想要气泡水还是静水？

Would you like some sparkling or some still water?

您想要新西兰的安蒂波德斯，还是意大利的圣培露？

And did you want the antipodes from New Zealand or the San Pellegrino from Italy?

现在有气泡水可供选择。

Now there's a choice of sparkling water.

这顿饭可能相当贵。

That's probably quite an expensive meal.

但如果你走进来，说我想喝点水。

If, however, you walk in and you say, I may have some water.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

角落里有水龙头。

Taps in the corner.

哦，有杯子吗？

Oh, any cups?

没有。

No.

直接用手接吧。

Just use your hands.

那价格可能就完全不同了。

That's that's probably a very different price point.

顺便说一下，这两种都不算坏。

Now neither are bad, by the way.

而且你知道，其中一些可能在孩子们的学校体育活动之后特别重要。

And and, you know, some of those are really important maybe after the skit the kids' school sports.

这只是一个小小的举动。

It's a quick little thing.

去把它拿过来。

Go and get that.

把它办成。

Make it happen.

这和他们的高档晚餐非常不同，后者可能代表一个纪念日或其他更广泛的场合。

Very, very different to their fine dining dinner, which might be representing an anniversary or something else that's more broadly going on.

当你思考代理人员对品牌的理解，以及他们如何定位这个品牌时，我会遇到一些人说，哦，我被定位为只能卖公寓，永远不能卖房子。

When you think about agents and understanding of brand and thinking about how they go to position that brand, and I get people who are like, oh, I've been positioned that I can only sell apartments, and I can never sell houses.

或者天啊，我只卖房子。

Or jeez, I only ever sell houses.

我真希望我能拥有部分公寓市场。

I wish I had some of the apartment market.

还有其他人说，低于某个价格点的房源我一概不接。

And And then I've got other people like, I won't take on anything under a certain price point.

还有其他经纪人说，乔什，我会卖所有价格区间的房源。

Then I've got other agents who say, Josh, I'll sell in all price points.

我并不是觉得自己高人一等而不卖任何房源，但我要求每个价格区间内的房产都必须是展示得最好的。

I I'm not in a position that I'm too good to sell anything, but it needs to be the best property in terms of its presentation in each price range.

所以跟我们聊聊定位吧，当人们试图为房产、品牌以及自身作为经纪人进行定位时，应该考虑哪些因素？

So talk to us a bit about positioning and what people should consider when they're trying to position a property, when they're trying to position a brand, and positioning themselves as an agent.

是的。

Yeah.

很好的问题，乔什。

Great question, Josh.

我认为，就像你所说的，不管你身处市场的哪个领域，都没关系。

And I think for me, it like you said, it doesn't matter what area of the market you're in.

你需要做出一个决定，关于你希望被如何认知，以及你在市场中的定位。

There's a decision to be made about how you wanna be perceived and what is your positioning within the market.

这既适用于你作为个人经纪人，也适用于你作为一家企业的机构。

And I take that both you individually as an agent, and you as a an agency in business as well.

我对这个决定的担忧是，人们刚开始职业生涯时，往往只想积累成交量，因为他们刚进入市场。

And what I worry about in terms of that decision is people, you know, start off their career just wanting to build maybe volume because they're new into the market.

于是他们把自己定位为‘我价格便宜’。

And so they position themselves as I can go in cheap.

我只求快速成交，以此建立声誉，但很快就会意识到，自己已经被贴上了‘廉价且不专业’的经纪人标签。

I'm just gonna sell fast, and that's how I build my reputation and realize all too quickly that now they are positioned as that cheap and dirty agent.

实际上，我希望你非常干净利落。

Actually, hope you're very clean.

但你还是成了那种只管进场、快速出手、完成任务的廉价经纪人，却不明白为什么自己无法进入更高端的市场或更高价位的领域。

But, you know, cheap agent who just gets in, gets out and does the job and then wonder why they can't break into the more premium markets or in the higher thresholds.

因此，我认为你需要为自己设定一个标准，明确你希望被如何认知，这将影响你如何营销房源、如何推广自己、如何塑造品牌、如何呈现自我以及如何展示房产。

And so what I I think you need to create a standard for yourself on how you wanna be perceived, and that goes into how you market your properties, how you market yourselves, how you position your brand, how you present yourself, how you present your properties.

我以高端市场为例，我知道有很多经纪人希望在自己所在区域的高价段市场立足，或者希望拓展到周边拥有更多高端买家的郊区，扩大市场份额。

And I'll use the example of the premium market, and I know there are a lot of agents who aspire to be either in the premium price points within their, areas that they work within or who are trying to move in and grow market share in adjacent, suburbs where there is more premium marketplace.

因此，你需要掌握一系列解决方案，并了解如何有效推广高端房产。

And so there is a suite of solutions that you need to get yourself across and educate yourself on that, how we market well premium properties.

这正是Domain的一个独特优势所在。

And this is one of the, I think, points of difference of Domain.

我们看到，Domain是一个高端市场平台，吸引的是高意向、高价值的用户群体，他们前来搜索，尤其是我们通过《Domain》、《悉尼晨锋报》、《时代报》以及我们的高端刊物触达被动型受众的能力。

We see that Domain is a a premium marketplace, high intent, high value audiences who come and search, particularly in our ability to reach passive audiences through publications like our Domain, Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, and our Prestige publications.

这使我们能够触达更多被动型买家，而任何希望进入高端市场的人，都应确保自己了解这一系列解决方案。

And so what that does is allow us to reach a more passive buyer, and there's a suite of solutions that someone who wanting to position themselves into those premium markets should make sure they're educated on.

我举个例子。

I'll I'll use an example.

最近，我们在墨尔本推出了《高端杂志》。

So in Melbourne, recently, we launched the Prestige Magazine.

这是一本专注于墨尔本市场并覆盖全国的高端房产刊物。

It's both a a Melbourne focused and national focused publication for premium properties.

几周前，我跟一位经纪人聊过，他因为没有提供印刷方案，结果失去了高端市场的房源委托。

And I was talking to an agent a few weeks ago who ended up losing the listing in the premium market because they didn't present a print solution.

他只展示了普通的数字解决方案。

They only presented the the regular digital solution.

客户的反馈是：我只是不信任你懂高端市场，因为你连建议我们看看那些不同的刊物和渠道来推广房产都做不到。

And the feedback was is I I just didn't trust that you knew the premium game and the premium market because you couldn't even you didn't even propose that we should look at those different publications and options to expose the property.

我觉得令人惊讶的是，那么多经纪人只关注如何快速降低营销成本、减少曝光，以为这样就能赢得委托；而真正能赢得业务的，是那些自信地展示出如何在高端市场实现高价成交的经纪人。

And I think that's what I get surprised about that so many agents are focusing on how quickly I can reduce the marketing cost, reduce the exposure because I believe that'll win me the listing where someone who presents with confidence who shows they know the recipe on on how to get a great price in a premium market are the ones who are gonna really win the business.

这真是一个非常有趣的对话。

And this is a really interesting conversation.

我有一句话，客户体验就是品牌，而品牌就意味着定价权。

I've got a saying that, you know, customer experience equals brand, and brand therefore equals pricing power.

沃伦·巴菲特说过，他喜欢投资那些拥有定价权的品牌。

And the story is the one about, you know, what Warren Buffett says is that literally he likes to buy brands that have pricing power.

举个例子，你走进一家餐厅，你又不喝酒，他们问你：‘你想喝点什么？’

So as an example, you you walk into a restaurant and you're a non drinker and they say, what would you like?