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现在，让我们进入正题。
And now, onto the show.
来自Data Rails，这里是今天的FP and A节目。
From data rails, this is FP and A today.
欢迎收听今天的FP and A节目。
Welcome to FP and A today.
我是您的主持人格伦·霍珀。
I'm your host, Glenn Hopper.
今天节目中，我们邀请到了罗希尼·贾因，她负责BILL公司的财务战略，BILL是一家智能财务平台，已被近五十万家企业用于管理、流转和最大化其资金。
Today on the show, we're joined by Rohini Jain, who leads finance strategy at BILL, the intelligent finance platform used by nearly half a million businesses to manage, move, and maximize their money.
罗希尼拥有超过二十年的经验，曾在金融科技、支付和电子商务领域一些全球最知名的企业中塑造并领导财务、产品和运营团队。
Rohini has more than twenty years of experience shaping and leading finance, product, and operations teams across some of the world's biggest names in fintech, payments, and e commerce.
在加入BILL担任首席财务官之前，她曾担任贝宝大型企业与商户平台的首席财务官兼高级副总裁，并此前在eBay、沃尔玛和通用电气担任高级财务领导职务。
Before joining Bill as the company's chief financial officer, she served as CFO and SVP of PayPal's large enterprise and merchant platforms, and previously held senior finance leadership roles at eBay, Walmart, and General Electric.
她拥有伦敦政治经济学院的金融硕士学位，并且是印度特许会计师协会的特许会计师。
She holds a master's in finance from the London School of Economics and is a chartered accountant with the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India.
在BILL，罗希尼正帮助重新定义自主财务对中小企业意味着什么，通过整合数据、技术和人工智能来消除障碍、拓展机遇。
At BILL, Rohini is helping redefine what autonomous finance means for small and mid sized businesses, combining data, technology, and AI to eliminate friction and expand opportunity.
罗希尼，欢迎来到节目。
Rohini, welcome to the show.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
很高兴能来到这里。
So glad to be here.
我非常期待探讨自主财务，但我会先按捺一下，先带你回顾一下你的职业背景，因为你的人生经历非常精彩，我迫不及待想听你分享，也相信我们的听众会非常感兴趣。
I'm so excited to get to autonomous finance, but I'm gonna I'm gonna hold my horses on that, and we're gonna walk through walk through your background of it and everything because I you have a fascinating background, and I can't can't wait to hear and for our listeners to hear about some of the positions and and roles you've had.
说到这个，你的职业生涯非常出色。
So on that, you've had a remarkable career.
它带你走过了通用电气、eBay、PayPal，现在来到了Bill。
It's taken you through GE, eBay, PayPal, and now Bill.
我想知道，你是如何最初踏入金融领域的？是什么让你在这多年里一直对它保持热情？
And I'm wondering, how did you first find your way into finance, and what's kept you hooked on it through all these years?
这是个很有趣的问题，因为如果我认真回想是什么让我进入金融行业，那几乎完全是偶然。
It's such an interesting question because if I really look back on what got me into finance, it was real chance almost.
当时我正排着队缴纳大学申请的费用。
So I was in this queue for depositing my fee for my college application.
和所有其他典型的印度孩子一样，我本打算成为工程师或医生，所以我排在理科队列里。
And like any other good Indian kid, I was going to be either an engineer or a doctor, so I was in the science line.
我看到旁边一队人正在缴纳费用，他们都要选择商科，也就是我们印度所说的商业学科方向。
And I saw this queue next to me depositing fee of all these people who are gonna do commerce, which is the business and what we call it back in India as a a study stream.
他们都在谈论经济学、商业研究和管理会计。
And they were all talking about economics and business studies and management accounting.
我觉得这听起来太有趣了，我就是被变化所吸引。
I'm like, oh, that sounds so interesting, and I'm just drawn to change.
于是我心想，好吧。
And I was like, okay.
也许改学商业而不是物理、化学和数学会更有趣，这些我已经学得够多了。
Maybe interesting to do that instead of physics, chem, and math, which I've already done enough of.
于是我换了队伍，结果让母亲非常失望，直到今天她还为此感到遗憾。
And I switched the queue and ended up much to the disappointment of my mother who, to date, regrets that.
我没有成为工程师，而是选择了商科，后来又考了注册会计师。
I did not become an engineer engineer and went in to do commerce and then eventually CPA.
这段旅程真是精彩纷呈。
It's been such a fascinating journey.
我职业生涯始于通用电气，然后转到eBay，PayPal曾短暂地在沃尔玛，之后到了Bill。
Like, I started out my career with GE and then moved over to eBay, and PayPal was briefly at Walmart, and then Bill.
每一天都有新的问题等着我去解决。
And every day, there's a new problem to solve.
每一天都感觉像是，你知道的，我得先处理离船最近的那条短吻鳄？
And every day feels like, you know, what is the closest alligator to the boat I need to deal with?
这一直保持着新鲜感。
It's it's been very fresh.
每年、每家公司都让我学到很多，而且我真的别无选择。
It's been huge learning every single year, every company, and, yeah, I couldn't do anything else.
这很棒。
That's great.
那你有没有告诉妈妈，你绝对没走一条轻松的路？
Well, did you tell your mother you certainly didn't take the easy path?
我听说过印度特许会计师协会的特许会计师考试，那可不是一般的难。
I've heard about the chartered accountant in Institute of Chartered Accountants in India, and that's not a that's a that's a tough exam.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
她有三个孩子。
Well, she has three kids.
其中一个医生，一个是律师，而我就是我这样。
One of them is a doctor, one's a lawyer, and I am what I am.
她还没有一个工程师，为此她还经常抱怨。
She still doesn't have an engineer, and she complains about it.
所以，我目前在孟菲斯的会计学院担任董事会成员，我们刚刚成功将会计专业获批为STEM项目。
So I'm I'm on the board at the school of accountancy here here in Memphis, and we actually just got the accounting program approved as a STEM program.
我认为正是出于这个原因。
And I think it was for that very reason.
我觉得是为了让印度妈妈们觉得送孩子学会计也行。
I think it was so Indian mothers would feel okay sending their I
我得告诉她，是的。
need to tell her that Yeah.
现在就去。
Right now.
所以
So
嗯，你一路上肯定学到了很多东西。
well, I you had to have picked up so much along the way.
回望那些经历，再看看比尔，有没有哪些关键时刻特别突出，塑造了你今天对金融的看法？
And just looking back at across all those stops and now at Bill, are there experiences along the way that stand stand out as turning points and that kinda shape the way you think about finance today?
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
我认为，以在通用电气开启职业生涯，是我人生中最关键、最具决定性的时刻，因为通用电气的金融文化非常强大。
I think starting out my career with GE was probably the most defining and the most critical moment in my career because it's the GE DNA in finance is really strong.
你可能注意到，身边有很多CFO都来自通用电气，他们都是杰出的领导者。
You probably see around you, there are so many CFOs that have come from GE and are just great leaders.
我们在那里所做的，就像进入了一所学校。
So what we do there is this, you know, a school you get into.
你进入这个体系后，他们会培养出真正理解如何经营企业的人，而不仅仅是作为财务合作伙伴。
You get into the machine, and they churn out people who are deeply rooted into what it means to run a business, not just be a finance partner.
因此，你和你的CEO或总经理是唯一两个了解企业所有动态的人，无论涉及哪个业务板块或职能部门。
So you are, along with your CEO or your GM, the only other person who knows everything about what's happening in the business irrespective of, you know, portfolios or functions and such.
举个例子，我早期在通用电气医疗工厂担任工厂经理和财务经理时，曾亲自站在生产线旁，学习电路板是如何制造的。
So just for an example, when one of my early roles in GE Healthcare Factory when I was doing the factory manager role, a finance manager role, I actually stood in the line to make circuit boards to know how that's done.
在季度末忙碌时期，我还会在发货码头帮忙打包箱子，把货物装车运出。
I actually during the quarter end rush, I would be in the shipping dock helping pack boxes and shipping them out of the door.
因此，我不仅学会了如何更深入地了解业务运营、提升商业敏锐度，还学会了如何在大规模层面做到这一点。
So the learning about not only how to get deeper into the operations of the business, build your business acumen, but also how to do it at scale.
通用电气的业务遍布全球每一个国家。
Like, GE has presence in every single country.
它在多个大洲都设有团队。
It has probably teams across multiple continents.
所以，能够在如此大规模的体系中完成这一切，我认为这为我提供了极佳的训练平台。
So doing all of that at scale, I think that was just a really great training ground for me.
而在我去过的每一个其他职位和公司，我至少都从中学到了一两样特别的东西。
And then every other role and company that I've gone to, there has been at least one or two special things that I have I have drawn out of them.
当我去eBay时，不仅了解了科技世界，也从思维角度体会到了科技领域财务工作的不同之处；我在那里做了数据分析的工作，这让我接触到了大数据，以及交易型业务中数据的庞大与复杂性，学会了如何应对这些数据，并利用它们做出高效、有效的决策。
So when I went to eBay, not only learning about the tech world and the finance work somewhat differently from a mindset perspective as well in technology, But I did analytics roles there, which, you know, exposed me to big data and the complexity of just how much data there is in transaction businesses, right, and how to deal with that and how to make very efficient, effective decisions with that.
然后我转到了PayPal，进入了一个全新的行业——金融科技。
Then moved over to PayPal, new industry, fintech.
最令人兴奋、几乎成为我发展转折点的事情，是我离开财务岗位几年，转去做产品工作。
The most exciting thing, almost a turning point in my development as well was when I moved out of finance for a couple of years and did a product role.
紧张到极点。
Nerve racking.
对吧？
Right?
在多年一直作为专家之后，突然进入一个自己懂得最少的房间，真的很难。
It was really hard to be the person who knows the least in the room after being the expert for several years when you enter the room.
对吧？
Right?
所以在职业生涯的这个阶段，确实很不舒服，但学到了很多。
So it was really uncomfortable at that stage in my career, but great learning.
我觉得，当我暂时离开金融领域时，反而学到了关于金融最多的知识，因为你照镜子时，能看清自己哪些地方做得不够好。
And I feel like that was a moment in fine or not being in finance was when I learned most about finance because you kinda look at the mirror and you see what you are not doing well.
这真是一个巨大的转折点。
So huge turning point.
然后，是的，接手BILL的这个职位，简直是增长曲线和学习曲线的加速器。
And then, yeah, taking this role at BILL, I mean, talk about an accelerated growth curve and a learning curve.
这一切都发生了，而且能和这里出色的团队一起工作，真是太棒了。
It's it's been all of that, and working with the wonderful team here has been great.
这太棒了。
That's amazing.
我特别欣赏的是，从你的故事中可以看出，这条主线其实非常简单。
And what I really like, it sounds like the through line in that story is it's so easy.
我认为金融行业这些年来已经发生了变化，但我知道，当我刚在GE起步时，情况可能也差不多。
And I think that finance has evolved over the years, but I know when when I and had you not started at at GE, it may have been similar.
但当我刚进入金融行业时，我们就像身处象牙塔中，一切都很理论化，我们只埋头于电子表格和模型，计算着数字。
But when I started in finance, we were in this ivory tower where everything was theoretical and we were just in there with our spreadsheets and our models and crunching our number.
我记得当我换工作时，曾对别人说过，我不在乎那个产品是什么。
And it I I can remember telling someone when I had a a career chain, went to a different company that it I didn't care what the widget was.
你知道，我只是个搞数字的人。
You know, I'm just I'm just the numbers guy.
我想我无意中把自己称为‘记账员’。
The bean counter, I guess, is what I accidentally called myself.
但在我职业生涯早期，我确实有这种心态，也许在职能层面上，这样还能应付得过去。
But and I I had that mentality early in my career and maybe at a functional level, you can get by with that.
但我认为，如今金融行业已经发生了巨大变化，你仍然需要具备所有这些专业技能，但同时你还必须拥有更广泛的知识，而这些在我刚入行时是不需要的。
But I think finance has evolved so much now, and you have to you still have to have all that domain expertise, but you also have to have this breadth of knowledge that I think when I started out in in finance, you didn't have to have that.
你知道，你说过在产品岗位上，你能从外部看到金融部门在做什么，并从中学习。
What do you take from I I know you said on the product role, you kinda see outside in what finance is doing and learn from there.
但重要的是要理解，这些不仅仅是数字，背后还涉及流程、方法、人员，一切的一切。
But just by understanding these aren't just numbers, these are processes, techniques, people, everything that's behind it.
你从中学到了什么？
What did you take away from that?
学到了很多东西。
So many things.
对吧？
Right?
其中之一是让你真正理解业务的需求。
One of the thing is it makes you really empathetic to the business.
有时候我看到财务人员进来就说：为什么我们没达到目标？到底出了什么问题？
And sometimes I've seen finance people come in and say, oh, why are we not meeting the numbers and what's happening?
而不是试图找到问题的根源，你只是在强加结果应该是什么，这并没有帮助。
Rather than trying to get to the root of the problem, you sometimes are just, you know, dictating what the outcome needs to be, and that doesn't help.
所以像在考虑产品发布时，你需要为下一年的计划提前规划好哪些内容，现在我知道了，要开发产品、发布产品、并与客户沟通，这些都需要多少时间。
So simple things like when you're thinking about product release and what you need to bake into the next year's plan from that, now I know that how much time it needs to not only make that product, get it released, start talking to the customers about it.
这其中有一个逐步提升的过程。
There is a ramp period there.
整个流程都需要完成。
There is this whole cycle that needs to happen.
我们作为财务人员，不能只是简单地推高数字，让业务部门觉得必须承诺这个目标。
We cannot just, as finance people, push a higher number and make the business feel, like, committed to that.
对吧？
Right?
所以，当你置身财务之外时，会获得一种同理心和理解，我认为这至关重要。
So there's this element of empathy and understanding that you get being outside of finance, which I think is super critical.
最终，影响力来自于业务成果。
And then in the end, the impact comes from business results.
而不是坐在那里数数字。
It doesn't come from sitting and counting the numbers.
所以，如果你想推动业务成果，你应该和他们一起解决问题，而不是只是向业务部门指出问题。
So if you want to drive business results, you wanna be a problem solver with them versus stating the problem for the business.
是的。
Yeah.
我喜欢这一点，因为在我担任CFO的时候，我一进来就会惹恼COO和CRO，因为我对总账之外发生的事情特别感兴趣——无论是为了做出更好的预测、理清现金流，还是单纯理解业务，你都会开始越界。
And that's I love that because in my CFO roles, I would come in and immediately anger the the COO and the CRO because I would be so interested in what was happening outside of the general ledger because whether it was to make a better forecast or figure out cash flow or just understand the business, you start overreaching.
有时候，如果公司文化不够成熟，这确实会引发一些摩擦。
And sometimes, you know, it it it can create some friction if the if the company culture isn't there.
但我认为，无论你是否直接负责数字或指标，能够理解它们都会让你在财务工作上更出色，也能让你更具战略眼光。
But I just think whether you own the numbers or the metrics, being able to understand them makes you better at finance, and it makes you able to be more strategic.
是的。
Yeah.
我相信以你的经验，会发现这种摩擦通常只是短暂的。
And I'm sure in your experience, would have learned that it's probably friction for a very short period of time.
一旦他们意识到你是来帮助他们达成目标，而不是单纯扔给他们一个数字，双方的关系就会发生根本性的转变。
The moment they realize that you're there to help them get to their numbers versus just give them a number, I think it really changes the dynamic between the two.
是的。
Yeah.
你可能比我更擅长与人相处。
And you're probably a way better people person than I am.
所以他们一直对我生气。
So they stayed angry at me.
但人们告诉我的并不是这样，不过还是谢谢你。
And I That's not what people tell me, but thank you.
我明白了。
I take it.
我喜欢在进入财务部门时拥有更广阔的视角，我们并不是只待在象牙塔里。
I love having that that broader view coming into the office of finance, and we're not just here in our ivory tower.
但当你在不同大公司之间转换时，你知道，每家公司对绩效的衡量方式都略有不同。
But then moving across different big companies like that, you know, every company measures performance a little bit differently.
我想象你从每家公司都学到了一些东西。
And I'm imagine there are things that you've taken from each of them.
我知道你身处不同行业时，会有不同的东西适用。
I know you could be in different industries and it, you know, different things apply.
但对你来说，有哪些关键指标在财务规划与分析中特别突出且重要吗？
But for you, are there any key metrics that really stand out and really matter to FP and A?
我的意思是，那些真正驱动数字背后故事的指标。
I mean, the ones that really drive the story behind the numbers.
这可能来自你以前的职位，或者对你来说最重要的东西，比尔，不管什么最合理就行。
And this could be from a previous role or or what you what's most important to you, Bill, whatever is, you know, makes the most sense.
是的。
Yeah.
这再次与我过去几年所处的科技行业更为相关。
And this is, again, more relevant as I think about the technology industry that I've been a part of for now several years.
我注意到的一点是，指标太多了。
One of the things that I've noticed is that there's just too many metrics.
每个人都在试图衡量、关注和解决的指标太多了。
There's too many metrics that everybody is trying to measure and trying to focus on and trying to solve for.
所以，格伦，我不会给你一两个指标。
So I wouldn't, Glenn, give you one or two metrics.
我只想说，财务和FP&A团队的工作是真正理解什么最重要。
I would just say that the job of the finance and FP and A teams is to really understand what matters most.
在这个公司生命周期的当下，在这个行业中，以及公司未来的发展方向上，哪些指标才是最重要的？真正应该聚焦的核心是什么？
What are the metrics that matter in this time in life of the company, in this industry, and where they are headed, and what is really the most important thing to focus on?
所以不是列一个清单，而是挑选出少数几个关键指标，让团队能够与业务部门及其领导者一起深入推动，从而产生实际影响。
So not a list, but a few handful that they can really start to work through with the business teams and their leaders to make an impact on those.
关于指标，我另外学到的一点是，衡量某个指标往往会带来一些意想不到的副作用。
The other thing that I have learned around metrics is there are several unintended consequences of measuring a metric.
因此，当我思考什么才是真正重要的、值得衡量的内容时，我特别关注与之相关的控制性指标。
So what's very important to me as I think about what really matters and what I wanna measure is what is the control metric that's associated to it.
你知道吗？
You know?
如果你试图最大化销售额，你可能会设定某种销售薪酬指标或其他相关机制，但你必须同时设定一个关于盈利能力的控制性指标。
So if you're trying to maximize your sale, you sales number, you will do a certain type of metrics for sales compensation or whatever else, but you have to have a control metric of profitability around that.
如果你在管理风险，比如你能承受多少风险基点，那你仍然需要关联一个销售指标，来衡量这会给销售带来多大的摩擦。
If you're trying to manage your risk basis points of how much risk can you tolerate, you still wanna have the sales metric tied to it that how much friction are you putting on the sales metric.
所以我认为，要同时看到正反两面，弄清楚只衡量单一指标可能带来哪些潜在的副作用，这真的非常重要。
So I think seeing the both sides and trying to figure out what could be the potential unintended consequences of measuring just one metric is really important.
并识别出哪些才是真正的杠杆点。
And identifying which ones are the actual levers.
这些可能是滞后指标，或者如果我们影响了这些指标，实际上能推动结果。
Which are you know, they could be lagging indicators, or which ones if we impact this, we're actually gonna drive results.
是的。
Yeah.
它们必须是领先指标。
They they need to be leading indicators.
它们必须是可控制的。
They need to be controllable.
许多公司花费大量时间试图不断衡量和关注那些他们无法控制的事情，以此来让自己忙个不停。
A lot of companies spend a lot of time trying to constantly measure and look at keep themselves busy with looking at things that they cannot control.
偶尔了解这些情况很好，但你需要专注于那些你能控制的、并能驱动结果的领先指标。
It's good to know them periodically, but you need to obsess about things you control and things that are leading indicators that drive outcomes.
是的。
Yeah.
这其中可能充斥着太多干扰信息。
And there can be so much noise in it.
我主要在私营公司工作，大多是私募股权支持的，我们会与董事会以及其他与会者举行季度会议。
I was in in private companies, primarily private equity backed, and we'd have our quarterly meetings with the board and, you know, whoever else was was in those meetings.
后来发展到我们有了80页的演示文稿，接着是90页，再后来是120页，里面包含了大量指标，我们逐个过一遍，当你翻阅不同的管理报告时，听起来就像在念一份清单。
And it grew to a point where we had I mean, it was an 80 page deck, then a 90 page deck, then a 120 page deck where it's you have all these metrics in there and you're going through them and and it can just sound like as you go through the different management reports, you're reading a laundry list.
似乎每位董事会成员都有自己关心的某些指标。
And it seemed like every board member had certain metrics that they cared about.
当有人谈到他们不关心的指标时，他们就会走神，要么做笔记，要么做别的事情。
And then when somebody was talking about metrics, they didn't care about, they would just be off, you know, making notes or or doing what they did.
如果你试图从中筛选出关键内容，但要过滤掉这些干扰实在太难了。
And if you tried to pull any of them out, but it's so hard to filter through that noise.
我认为，当我们清楚这些关键指标是什么，并能围绕它们讲好故事时，就能找到我们的价值所在。
And I think that that's where we can find that's where we're gonna add value when we know what those key metrics are and when we can tell the story around them.
是的，没错，每个人都有他们偏爱的指标，但关键是确保我们聚焦在正确的那些上。
And, yes, okay, everybody has their pet metrics that they wanna look at, but being sure that we're focused on on the right ones.
而且，你知道，这些指标显然会因行业而异，就像你所说的。
And, you know, they're gonna differ by industry, obviously, like like you said.
我也明白，有很多早期预警指标，在大公司里可能有成百上千个。
And and I I understand there are a lot of early indicating metrics, and they could be hundreds and thousands in a large company.
我对人工智能也感到非常兴奋，我一直理想中的目标是，或许可以有一个仪表盘，自动监控所有我不需要亲自查看的指标，就像天上有一双眼睛在盯着，然后说：好的。
This is where I'm super excited about AI as well, where I've always had this optimal vision of what I would like to do is this probably a dashboard or something that's measuring all the metrics I never have to look at, and there's some sort of eye in the sky that's sort of looking at it and saying, okay.
这些是五个超出控制阈值的指标，你把它们提出来。
These are the five bonds that are outside of the control threshold, and you tee those up.
然后你仍然会去看，说：好的。
And you still look at it and say, okay.
你和，你知道，这些指标通常可能会有很多噪音波动，但现在我们可以利用人工智能来构建这样的工具，专注于公司最重要的五六个指标，同时有一个工具在默默监控其他所有数据。
Do you and, you know, these things could generally end up with a lot of noisy fluctuations, but you we can now leverage AI to build things like that where we are focused on the five or six metrics that are most important for the company, but there's a tool that's kind of keeping an eye on everything else.
你说到我心坎里了，这对我来说就是梦想，因为我花了大量时间翻阅数据，试图寻找相关性，甚至那些根本不存在的相关性。
You're you're speaking my language now, and that's I mean, to me, that's the dream because I spent so much time going through data trying to find correlations, maybe even the things that weren't there.
我知道相关性不等于因果性，但正如你所说，数据太多了，多到我们无法完全吸收和跟上，而且
And I know correlation doesn't mean causation, but to your point, there's so much data out there and it's more than we can ingest and keep up with and
当然。
Absolutely.
也许所有这些指标都有其重要性。
Maybe all those metrics are somewhere important.
但如果你有一个在后台运行的AI系统，能够发现这些关联并指出：嘿。
But if you had something running AI in the background that found those correlations and figured out, hey.
你知道，这是一个前瞻性的指标。
You know, this is a leading indicator here.
如果我们看到这种变化，就知道这是下游的影响。
If we see this move, we know this is the downstream effect.
我想，比尔，以你拥有的所有数据来看，你可能已经在实时看到一些这样的情况了。
And that's I imagine that it, Bill, with with all the data that you have, that you're actually maybe seeing some of that in in real time.
这正是我非常期待的事情。
That's something that I'm super excited about.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，如果没有在这些领域部署人工智能，最终会出现大量误报或漏报，然后你就得去追踪如何获得高质量的信号。
I mean, the issue that ends up happening without AI deployment in these things is there are a lot of false positives or false negatives, and you're then chasing how do we get high quality signals.
你拥有的数据越多，规模越大，人工智能的效果就越显著。
And the more data that you have, the more scale that you have means more effective AI.
对吧？
Right?
所以你实际上完全可以做到这一点。
So you could actually really yeah.
所以比尔正好处于一个能为我们客户实现这一点的有利位置。
So Bill's just positioned in the right place to do that for our customers.
既然你们有财务团队，我总是很好奇，不同公司，尤其是那些拥有大量数据的公司，是如何组建他们的财务团队的。
So with your finance team there, I'm always curious to hear how different companies, especially companies with a lot of data, how they structure that finance team.
我想具体谈谈，当然我们也可以讨论更广泛的团队，因为这些都很重要。
And I'm I'm thinking specific and we can talk about the broader team as well because all that's important.
但我特别想知道数据科学的角色，比如你们团队中是否有数据科学家，或者他们是否与数据科学和商业智能团队紧密合作。
But I'm thinking specifically about the role of data science and how if you have data scientists on your team and or if they work really closely with the data science and BI team.
我在想团队的结构，以及不同的技能，同时也要确保团队与业务其他部分、产品、工程、运营等保持紧密联系，就像你之前提到的那样。
Like, I'm thinking about the team structure and then the different skills, but also making sure the team stays connected like you were talking about with the rest of the business, the product, engineering, operations, all the other as well.
我的意思是，要拥有如此多元的技能组合，还要让团队成员与其他部门紧密协作，这确实是个巨大的挑战。
I mean, it's a it's a big challenge to have to have this diverse skill set and then to have them all business partnering with the other groups.
你们在BILL公司是怎么应对这个问题的？
How do you how do you approach that at BILL?
这其实是个非常棒的问题。
That's actually a really excellent question.
对吧？
Right?
看待这个问题的方式是，你需要培养大量的商业敏锐度，才能成为一名有效的财务人员。
The way to think about it is and I talk a little bit about how you just need to build a lot of business acumen to be able to be an effective finance person.
这个等式的另一面是专业能力。
The second side of that equation is functional expertise.
所以，你了解业务，具备专业能力，同时掌握最新的技术，有学习和成长的意愿，把所有这些结合起来，并在两者之间保持恰当的平衡，这才是成功的关键。
So you know the business, you have the functional expertise, and you have the latest in technology, you have that appetite to learn and grow, You bring all of that together and have the right balance between the two is where the success lies.
在过去几年里，我一直在认真思考的一个关键问题是：我们如何持续提升财务人员和FP&A人员的技能？
And one of the key things that I've been really thinking about over the last few years is how do we continue to evolve the skill set of the finance people and the FP and A people?
未来再也不能只依赖传统的、擅长财务ROI类工作的会计型团队了。
It's no longer going to be the traditional accounting based teams that are very good at what they do from a finance ROI type of work.
我们必须在团队中引入一些年轻人，他们对最新最先进的工具非常熟悉，正在使用人工智能。
We really start to need we need to seed our teams with a few people, these young kids who are very exposed to the latest and the greatest tools, who are using AI.
事实上，几年前我就有一些财务人员在做机器学习和SQL等事情来帮助我们。
Actually, a few years ago, I had some finance people who are doing machine learning and SQL and all of those things to help us.
现在，这需要一个质的飞跃。
Now that needs to have a step change.
对吧？
Right?
所以，即使你的结构是为了支持业务，你也必须从财务角度镜像你所支持的CEO的组织架构。
So as you even if you're structured to support the business, you have to mirror the org of the CEO you're supporting from a finance perspective.
这是成功的唯一途径。
That's the only way to succeed.
对吧？
Right?
但在这些团队中，你现在需要开始引入一种不同的技能组合，让它们协同工作，而不是靠潜移默化，让每个人自然地逐渐适应这种角色。
But within these teams, you need to start to now add a different type of skill set that starts to work together instead of you know, with Osmosis or something, everybody starts to grow into that place.
你只需要少数几个变革推动者。
And you just need a couple of change drivers.
你需要有几个人专门思考流程，并推动这些快速变革。
You need a couple of people to be thinking about the processes and such and making these rapid changes.
那你怎么处理业务合作伙伴关系呢？
And how do you how do you deal with the business partnering?
你们是否真的有团队成员嵌入到其他部门？或者你们如何处理财务部门的跨职能汇报？
Do you actually have team members that are embedded in other groups, or how do you handle the sort of the cross functional reporting for finance?
是的。
Yeah.
我们确实如此，而且在我的整个职业生涯中，我的团队几乎一直以我所支持的CEO罗希尼的团队为蓝本进行组织，每个人都在相应的位置上。
So we have that, and I've had that almost always all through my career where my team is really structured to mirror my CEO, Rohini's team, and each person is sitting there.
然后我有一个公司团队，负责汇总所有这些工作并推动全公司的倡议。
And then I have a corporate team that's adding up all of that work and driving the corporate wide initiatives.
因此，当我们思考简化流程、报告、仪表盘、引入人工智能以及所有这些事情时，有一个公司团队专门花时间做这些，并将它们向下推广。
So as we think about streamlining, reporting, dashboarding, introducing AI, and all of that stuff, there is a corporate team that just spends time on that and pushes it down.
我喜欢这一点。
I love that.
是的。
Yeah.
这种程度的业务合作确实能建立信任。
And that really I mean, that level of business partnering, it builds trust.
它让你获得更好的洞察力，而与这些团队合作的人也能更好地理解它。
It gives you better insight, and the the people who are working with those teams have a way better understanding of it.
他们喜欢去生产线，亲自完成自己的步骤，从而真正理解整个流程。
And they like going up and going to the assembly line and and doing their steps and understand understanding that.
我的意思是，你知道如何更好地报告流程以及所有相关情况。
I mean, it's it you know how how to report better on on what that flow is and everything.
但 是的。
But Yeah.
他们花在业务伙伴身上的时间远多于花在我身上。
And those guys spend way more time with their business partners than they do with me.
对吧？
Right?
那是他们的关键利益相关者。
That's that's their key stakeholder.
是的。
Yeah.
我非常喜欢这一点。
I love that.
所以回顾你的职业生涯，你觉得在如何做好财务规划与分析方面，你学到的最重要的经验是什么？
So looking back at your career, what would you say are the biggest lessons you've learned about how to run FP and A well?
我很喜欢业务合作这部分，然后，你知道的，再融入一些新技术。
I love the business partnering part, but and then, you know, mixing in the the new technologies.
你认为有哪些特质或做法能够区分优秀的财务部门和卓越的财务部门？要达到下一个水平，关键是什么？
Are there would you say there are traits or things you can do that separate a good finance function from a from a great one, what it takes to get it to that next level?
是的。
Yeah.
在我看来，有几个因素能够区分卓越的财务部门。
I think there are a few things in my mind that separate great finance functions.
首先是不要被职位描述所束缚的心态，这非常重要。
The first one is the mindset of not being stuck within your job description is really important.
我职业生涯中最令人兴奋的时刻，都是我去做一些与本职工作毫无关系、却能解决业务问题的事情的时候。
The most exciting times in my career have been where I have done things to solve business problems that have nothing to do with my job.
你知道吗？
You know?
所以我总是想招聘这样的人——他们具备所有财务专业能力，但不会拘泥于职位描述，而是主动去解决问题。
So those those are the type of people that I wanna always hire that, you know, they have all the finance expertise, but they don't stick to that job description and go solve for problems.
我认为，随着时间推移，我逐渐明白，那些充满好奇心的人，才是我想在财务规划与分析团队中留住的人。
Curiosity, I feel over time, I have learned that people who are curious are the ones that I want in my FP and A teams.
你只需要多提问，不仅为了了解业务、学习如何把事情做到最好，还要关注行业动态，了解发生了什么。
You just need to ask questions, not only to learn the business, how to do things best, talk industry wide, see what's happening, and all of that.
你知道吗，一个人的好奇心会让他或她成为非常宝贵的资产。
You know, the the curiosity of a person makes it makes him or her a really great asset.
然后是那些能够高效工作的人，比如不会被轻易卡住的人。
And then people who can work with high velocity, like, get stopped on.
这正是我的观点。
That that's my thing.
我就喜欢充满活力的人。
I just I I like high energy people.
是的。
Yeah.
我特别欣赏好奇心这个特质，因为它能带来巨大影响。
And I love that curiosity component because that goes so far.
因为如果你有好奇心，你就不会只局限在财务领域或者会计领域。
Because if you have that curiosity, then you're not gonna be just, I'm just in the finance lane or I'm just in the accounting lane.
我一直觉得，从很多方面来说，财务规划与分析就像是调查记者。
And it's I I always think about FP and A really in a lot of ways, you're an investigative journalist.
只是重复数字是一回事，没错。
It's one thing to just Exactly.
但还要追问为什么，深入挖掘。
Regurgitate numbers, but then ask why ask why and dig in.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
这可能会让其他人觉得烦，但确实很有用。
It could be annoying for everybody else, but it's it's useful.
这个问题对我而言很有分量，因为我对此有很多想法。
So loaded question for me because I have thoughts around this.
但我对当前生成式AI的一切发展都深感着迷，我知道，多年来，财务规划与分析领域的人之所以脱颖而出，是因为如果你学会了写SQL查询，掌握了Python，就能做出一些Excel同伴做不到的更酷的事情，这确实很棒。
But I'm I think taken with everything that's going on with generative AI right now, and I understand, you know, for years, people in FP and A have stood out by if you learn to write a SQL query and if you learn Python and you can do some cooler things than what your buddies in Excel can do, that's that's great.
但我认为
But I think
绝不是想贬低Excel。
Not to undermine Excel for one second.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
我们在DataRails非常喜爱Excel。
We love Excel here at DataRails.
是的。
Yeah.
而且实际上，就连做数据科学项目也是如此。
And actually even doing data science projects.
我的意思是，我经常和数据科学家交流，而Excel往往是你们最终用来做展示层的地方，甚至……
I mean, I I talk to data scientists all the time and Excel is kind of where you end up to do your sort of presentation layer and even
最后一公里。
The last mile.
是的。
Yeah.
但有了生成式AI，我总是觉得，好吧。
But with generative AI, I always think of it like, okay.
我们一直在谈论数据的民主化，我不知道，已经二十年了，或者不管多久了。
We've been talking about democratization of data for, I don't know, what, twenty years now or or however long.
但有了生成式AI，现在几乎就像是数据科学正在实现民主化——你不需要会写SQL查询，或者即使你能写一点，但需要别人来审核和修正，生成式AI可以帮你修正，或者能进行疯狂的预测，比如为你构建一个复杂的Rima预测模型，这在Excel里做起来会很麻烦。
So but with generative AI, it's almost like there's a democratization of data science right now in that you don't that barrier to entry, if you can't write a SQL query or you can sort of write one and you need it to be QA ed and fixed, generative AI can fix that or it can do crazy forecasting like build a complex, you know, like a Rima forecast or something for you that would be a pain to do in Excel.
但我觉得，生成式AI当然，你总能听到关于它被误用的故障问题，但它必将改变并塑造未来多年的财务领域。
But I think with generative AI, obviously, know, there's all you hear all the time about glitches where people are using it wrong, but it is going it's going to change and and shape finance for years to come.
那如果我不知道呢。
And what if for I don't know.
我总是喜欢设想，如果你在跟刚毕业的人交谈，甚至可能是你的青少年。
I always like to think about if you were talking to someone straight out of college or this could even be to your teen.
但如果有人现在想提升自己在职业上的影响力，你认为他们应该学习什么？
But if someone wants to level up their impact in career right now, where do you think they should study?
我觉得，在生成式人工智能出现之前，这个答案可能有所不同。
And I don't it seems like maybe that answer would have been different, pre generative AI.
我知道我刚才说这个问题很有引导性。
And I know I'm I said it was loaded.
我完全在引导你往这个方向想。
I'm completely leading you on that path.
所以你不必非得为了这个而回答。
So don't don't feel like you have to answer just for that.
但你知道，也许还存在一些超越这些的因素。
But, you know, and maybe even maybe there are some some things beyond that.
但对于刚进入职业生涯或团队希望提升的人来说，他们应该去哪里呢？
But what do you where should people just starting in their careers or or teams trying to level up?
他们现在应该培养哪些技能，未来又该关注哪些方面？
What skills should they be building, and where should they be focused right now for the future?
是的。
Yes.
这个问题涉及很多方面。
There's so many dimensions to that question.
你知道的？
You know?
我仍然认为，金融仍然是一个技术领域。
I I still think that as your finance is still a technical field.
你需要懂会计。
You need to know accounting.
你需要了解法规，还要知道如何记账。
You need to know the regulation, and you need to know how to keep the books.
所以这些方面仍然非常基础。
So those type of things are still very fundamental.
理解数据结构，我个人觉得做数据分析的经历对我帮助很大，因为现在你可能用不上了，有AI工具帮你。
Understanding data structures, and I personally think was very helpful for me to do the analytics stint because you may not use it today because you have the AI tools to help you.
这就像计算器一样，但前进了一大步。
It's the same thing as calculator, but a leap leap forward.
对吧？
Right?
即使你不亲自计算，你还是想了解怎么做乘法。
You still wanna know how to do the multiplication even if you don't do it.
所以我认为打下这样的基础非常重要，这样你才能察觉AI输出是否有问题。
So I think having that foundation is really important so you can smell if there are things that are not outputting appropriately through the AI.
对吧？
Right?
所以我仍然推崇通过教育来建立基础技能。
So I still like the idea of foundational skills that you're building through education.
但比任何教育都更重要的是这一点，我经常对我孩子说，就是持续学习的能力。
But more than any kind of education is this and I tell my kids all the time, right, is the ability to continue to learn.
这种成长型思维的重要性，从未像今天这样突出。
This growth mindset piece was never as relevant as it is today.
我不在乎你学的是什么。
So I don't care what you studied.
只要你对学习新事物充满好奇心，精力充沛，并不断推动职业发展，我认为这才是我们真正需要的，因为我们不知道五年、十年或十五年后会是什么样子。
As long as you're super curious, high energy in terms of learning new things, and evolving your career, I think that's what we need because we don't know what this gonna this is gonna look like in five years or ten years or fifteen years.
但我依然知道，总会有一些问题需要被解决。
But I still know that there will be problems that will need to be solved.
人工智能将成为一个绝佳的伙伴，为你提供数据。
AI will be an amazing companion to give you data.
它会引导你走向正确的方向，但你仍然需要人类的头脑来判断：好吧。
It'll be a companion to point you in the right direction, but you still need a human mind to say, okay.
我们要从这三个可能的路径中选择一条前进。
We are gonna take this path out of the three that are possibly out there.
而且，说实话，回顾过去，有过许多日日夜夜。
And, honestly, as I look back, there were days and nights.
我的意思是，我怀里抱着一个坐在安全座椅里的小孩，还在办公室里哄她，周末加班赶账目。
I mean, I had a small child in a a bucket seat, and I was in the office rocking her and closing the books over the weekend.
你知道的？
You know?
AI能帮我们做的，就是消除我们成长过程中不得不做的大量手工工作——那些结束于凌晨两点或三点的夜晚，只因为我们要提交预算报告，说实话，我们并不喜欢这些。
What AI could help us do is take out a lot of that manual work that all of us had to do growing up, which, you know, we didn't love so much nights that ended at 02:00 or 03:00 because we're doing budget submissions.
如果所有这些都能实现自动化，那就太好了。
If all of that gets automated, that's great.
你就能有更多时间去了解业务，与你的业务伙伴一起制定战略。
You have more time to then learn about the business and help strategize with your business partners.
这正是我想说的——我要谈谈比尔，因为这正是让我感到兴奋、来到这里的原因：我们正试图为中小企业做同样的事。
And this is exactly I mean, I'm I'm gonna talk about Bill because this is what makes me excited to be here is that's what we're trying to do for smaller companies.
大公司可以投入资源、工具和基础设施，但中小企业不行。
Now big companies can put the resources behind it, all the tools, and infrastructure behind it.
但小型企业往往只有寥寥数人，他们同时兼任市场总监、财务总监、战略负责人等多重角色。
But the smaller SMBs, they're sometimes just a handful of people who is also the chief marketing officer or the CFO or the strategy guy or whatever else it might be.
如果我们能为他们提供工具和AI代理，帮助他们更快地完成工作，消除繁琐的体力劳动，他们就能真正专注于以正确的方式发展业务。
So if we were to really help them with the tools and AI agents that help them do things much faster and take out all the the grunt work, they can actually focus on growing their business the right way.
我知道这答案有点啰嗦，但我确实对这一点充满热情。
I know it's a long winded answer over here, but I I do feel passionately about that.
不。
No.
你的啰嗦回答可能还不到我问题的一半长。
Your long winded answer was probably half as long as my question.
他们会把我这段剪掉的。
So they'll they'll edit me out.
他们会说：又是格伦在啰嗦了。
They'll just say, there's Glenn rambling again.
是的。
Well yeah.
最近你个人最关心的是什么？
What's top of mind for you personally these days?
我的意思是，我们之前谈过，团队应该把好奇心集中在哪些方面。
I mean, we talked about, you know, where teams and they should be focusing their curiosity.
但作为一位我看得出充满好奇心的人，你在职业生涯的下一阶段正在学习或试图掌握什么？
But as someone who I can tell has that curiosity, what are you learning or trying to master in kind of this next chapter of your career?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我加入Bill是有原因的，因为我希望更深入地了解B2B领域的中小企业市场。
I mean, when I joined Bill, I did it for a reason because I wanted to really get deeper into the SMB space on the b two b side.
我长期从事B2B领域的工作，但我想真正理解他们的需求和问题所在。
I've worked on b two b side for a long time, but wanted to really understand what their needs and problems and such were.
所以这是其中一部分原因。
So that was a part of it.
其次，从职能角度来看，总有一个业务层面，也总有一个职能层面。
Secondly, from a functional perspective, there's a business element, always a functional element.
对吧？
Right?
从职能角度来看，我过去曾与投资者关系团队紧密合作，但之前并没有亲自负责投资者关系或管理与股东的关系。
From a functional perspective, I worked closely in the past with the IR teams, but not had investor relations and managed the relationships with the shareholders and such in the past.
所以，这也是我想要来学习的一点，我对此非常专注，投入了大量时间。
So that was one of the things that I wanted to come in and learn, and I'm very focused on that, spending a lot of time there.
此外，还有资本市场领域，我正在深入接触并努力理解，这对我的成长非常有帮助。
And as well as the capital markets area, that's something that I'm getting my hands into and wrapping my head around, which is a great learning for me.
但除此之外，在个人层面上，尽管我预料到一些情况，但担任上市公司CFO后，外部事务占用的时间之多还是让我感到意外。
But on top of that, on a more personal level, even though I was expecting some of this, getting a public company CFO role, it just takes you by surprise how much time you need to devote to external commitments.
还有，你知道的，你该如何平衡内部事务——比如运营业务、组建团队、投资人才等等？
Just the and then, you know, how do you balance what you need to do internally in running the business, building the teams, and investing in talent and all of that?
这正是我目前正在努力寻找平衡点的地方。
That's the balance I'm trying to figure out right now.
其次，我想提一下，因为你知道，这个职位的压力是无法停下的。
And secondly, I wanna throw it out there because, you know, the stress of this role, it doesn't switch off.
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它不会停止。
It doesn't switch off.
就像一周七天，每天二十四小时。
It's like seven days a week, twenty four hours.
当你有家庭、其他责任，还有工作中的各种事情时，你该如何应对？
And how do you manage through that when you have a family, you have other commitments, and you have, you know, what's happening at work?
所以我认为，在更深层次上，这些是我目前最关注的问题。
So I think on a a deeper level, those are some of the things that are very top of mind for me.
是的。
Yeah.
我明白，仅在投资者关系和监管事务之间，再加上本已满负荷的工作，再把ESG加进去，不管你团队有多大，
I could see between just between IR and regulatory, you add that on top of the already full time and throw ESG in there too, you know, but that on top of the regular full time commitments, it's doesn't matter how big of a team you have.
如果你要管理这一切，那就是
If you if you're managing all that, that's
最终会压得你喘不过气。
a lot of with you in the end.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
而且财务报表上是你的签名。
So and it's your signature on the financials.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
每次你必须对外发布指引时，肯定都会经历前后好几晚的失眠。
Every time you have to go out and guide, you're like, if few sleep and sleepless nights before and after for sure.
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我很喜欢你提到对中小企业感兴趣，因为我职业生涯的很大一部分都是在这一领域度过的。
I love what you said about your interest around SMBs because I spent a large portion of my career on that side.
即使现在做咨询时，由于我深度投入AI和AI项目，我现在更专注于企业级市场，可能比以往任何时候都更专注。
And even now in consulting, because I'm I'm so leaned in to AI and AI projects, I'm really focused on enterprise now, maybe more than I ever have been.
但我还是会思考这个问题，因为我仍然有很多联系人是在私募股权组合公司或小型企业领域，他们没有足够的预算或资源来充分利用当前AI的发展。
But I think about this because I still have a lot of contacts in the in in a private equity portfolio company or smaller business space, and they don't have the budget or the resources to really capitalize on where AI is right now.
所以比尔正在做的，我们稍后会详细讨论，但从一开始我就觉得，一定会出现像当年QuickBooks之于小企业的那种产品——现在你有了一个负担得起的会计平台，不再需要庞大的ERP系统和所有那些复杂的东西。
So what Bill's doing, and and we'll talk more about that in in a few minutes, but I thought from the beginning, there's gonna be someone who is like what QuickBooks was for small businesses back a million years ago, where now you have an accounting platform that's affordable, and you don't have to have the big ERP system and and all that.
但你想想，这些小企业根本没有大量的数据可以利用。
And and but you think about, like, all these small businesses, you don't have big data to benefit from.
比如一家只有三四个门店的干洗店，这根本算不上大数据。
If you've got a dry cleaner that has three or four locations, that's not big data.
而且你可能拥有的任何数据都没有被集中或整合在一起。
And you probably whatever data you have is not consolidated or aggregated anywhere.
所以当我听到你对这一领域的关注，以及我知道比尔在这方面的立场时，我很期待看到我们未来的走向。
So when I hear about your focus there, and I I know where where Bill is on that, that's interesting to see where we're going in the future.
我觉得我有点跑题了。
And I think I'm jumping ahead.
不过没关系，我们马上就会说到，毕竟我已经聊了三十分钟了，现在才终于谈到AI，任何听我节目的人都知道，我一开场就迫不及待想聊这个。
I do well, we're gonna go ahead and get there because we've waited I've gone thirty minutes into the show now, and I'm just now getting to AI, which everybody who listens to me knows that I'm I'm jumping at the bit out of the gate to to do that.
如果你准备好了，那我们就深入聊聊AI吧。
So if you're good, let's let's dive in on AI.
所以，如今大多数人听到AI，第一反应就是生成式AI。
So and, you know, I when most people today, when they hear AI, the first thing they think is generative AI.
但我知道比尔已经深耕AI平台十年了，指的是传统的AI和机器学习。
But I know Bill's been an AI powered platform for a decade, you know, classical AI, machine learning.
不过我知道，你们现在正推出一些新的智能代理功能，我非常期待听听这些内容。
But I do know that now you're rolling out some new agentic capabilities that I'm super excited to hear about.
所以，我可不想抢你的风头，但我真的很想听听比尔在AI方面有哪些新进展，虽然我也不太清楚具体是什么。
So without stealing any of your thunder, I'd love to hear which what Bill has going on with AI and the new but I don't know.
你可以先从你过去如何使用AI开始讲起，然后我也很想听听你们的新产品。
You you could start telling me kinda if you want, you can go into how you've used AI historically, and then I'd love to hear about some of the new products as well.
是的
Yeah.
不
No.
我很乐意谈谈新产品。
I'd love to talk about the new products.
这是我们生命中的一个激动人心的时刻。
It's exciting moment in our life.
所以在进入智能代理之前，我想先提一下，我们已经投入了时间和精力来构建一个集成的AI平台。
So the first thing I mentioned before I get into the agents is that we have invested the time and effort in building out an integrated platform for AI.
我们为中小企业提供了多种不同的产品，帮助他们每天减少大量手动工作。
So we have multiple different products that we serve up for the SMBs, which are helping them on a day to day basis to take out a lot of the manual work anyway.
但现在，有了这个集成平台，我们希望具备快速发布智能代理的能力。
But now, you know, with that integrated platform, we wanna have the capability to rapidly release the agents.
关于智能代理，我们真正想做的是先思考中小企业面临的问题，我们到底要解决什么，而不是仅仅因为某个代理看起来很酷就把它发布出去。
And the other thing about the agents is that we really wanna first think about the problem that the SMBs have and what are we solving for versus, oh, this agent just looks very cool, and we're gonna roll it out.
但我们正在深入思考如何优先处理它。
But we're very deeply thinking about how to prioritize it.
而且，我会谈谈我们最初聚焦的几个问题，以便率先推出解决方案。
And, you know, I'd I'll talk about a couple of problems that we kind of focused on to roll out solutions for first.
第一个是W-9表格。
And the first one is the w nines.
我的意思是，我们都喜欢报税，对吧？
I mean, we all love tax, don't we?
我们不喜欢。
We don't.
我们经常从中小企业那里听到，每年报税季收集W-9表格非常困难。
So one of the things we hear a lot from the SMBs is that it's so hard to collect the w nines come tax season.
平均而言，他们每年要花整整一周的时间来完成这项收集、核对和相关工作。
And on an average, it takes them about a week out of their year to just do this collection effort and reconciliation and all of that work.
所以我们正在尝试打造一个双向网络，这非常棒。
So what we are trying to we are a two sided network, which is great.
我们与供应商建立了关系。
We have the relationship with the suppliers.
我们与应付账款部门或账单客户也有关系。
We have the relationship with the APs or the the bill customers.
因此，我们会推出一个代理来为你完成这项工作。
So we have this this agent coming out that will go do that for you.
它能消除超过80%的手动工作量。
It'll take out more than 80% of the manual work required.
它会自动获取W-9表格。
It'll get the w nines.
它会自动完成对账，搞定。
It'll reconcile it automatically, and boom.
工作就完成了。
The work's done.
我已经能想象到当这种情况发生时人们脸上的笑容了，因为这完全是毫无价值的重复性工作，只是来回折腾。
And I I can already see the smiles on people's faces when this happens because it's it's really a zero zero value added work that they have to do, and it's just back and forth.
我不确定你对自行收集报税文件有什么看法。
I don't know how you feel about collecting your own tax documents to file your returns.
我本来想说，我知道在大多数公司，包括我待过的一些小公司，如果没有事先建立收集流程——比如在大公司，它们有采购和入职流程，会很早就拿到W-9表格和其他材料。
I was gonna say, I know when at most companies where I was at at smaller companies, even, like, not having that process upfront to collect the you know, if you go through a big company that has a procurement and onboarding process, they're gonna get the w nines early on and everything.
相关人员会处理，你会弄明白的。
The people at it, and you'll figure it out.
是的。
Yes.
但在小公司，总是手忙脚乱的。
But in small companies, it was always just that scramble.
这对很多公司来说意义重大。
So that's that's significant for a lot of companies out there.
这太重要了。
That's huge.
我对这个感到非常兴奋。
Super excited about it.
但这个第二点，实际上让我个人非常兴奋，因为我真的不擅长这个。
But this second one, actually, it it's personally so exciting for me because I I am really not good with this.
所以我们都会为公司出差，你也经历过我们使用的SNE卡或者公司信用卡吧。
So we all travel for the company and such, and you would have experienced, you know, the SNE card that we have or the corporate charge card that you guys would use.
需要拍照保存收据、把它们单独放在钱包的夹层里、再上传到系统并确保对账无误，这过程太麻烦了，现在还出现10美元的差错，我根本不知道原因是什么。
The effort required in taking pictures of the receipts, trying to keep them safe in a separate pocket of a wallet, and then trying to upload it to your systems and make sure it reconciles, and now there is a $10 error that I don't know why and what's happening.
所以我们也在为SNE业务尝试自动化整个流程。
So what we're also trying to do for the SNE business is to automate all of that.
系统会自动从你的邮件中收集收据（如果你把收据发到邮件里），然后自动同步到你的SNE卡平台，完成对账，搞定。
So there would be automatic collection of the receipts from your emails if you include it and whatnot and automatically gets into your, you know, SNE card platform, and it reconciles it, and boom.
一切结束。
You're done.
我知道我的行政助理会特别高兴，因为我从来都没按时把收据发给她。
I know my EA will be so excited about it because I never send her the receipts on time.
所以肯定会有很多人哀嚎。
So it's there's gonna be a boohoo from a lot of people.
这个也让我个人产生强烈共鸣。
So this one really resonates personally for me as well.
为了让你了解规模，就在BILL SNE平台上，我们每年处理7000万张收据。
Just to give you the context of the size and scale, within BILL SNE platform, we have 70,000,000 receipts that happen.
我听说一个有趣的统计数据：如果把这些收据一张张连起来，能绕地球三圈。
And there's an interesting stat that I heard is that if you were to line them up around the earth, you would circle the earth three times around the time.
这太惊人了。
That's incredible.
这真是
That's
哇哦。
Wow.
想象一下，上传和核对这些收据需要多少工作量，而我们即将发布的智能代理将大幅减少这些工作。
Imagine the amount of work that takes to upload these and reconcile these, and a large portion of that just goes away with the agent we're releasing.
这真的令人兴奋。
So that's really exciting.
这太庞大了。
That's so huge.
作为一个今天早上刚填完报销单的人，我一直在翻找，到底哪些能报呢？
As someone who just filled filed an expense report this morning and was digging through and, like, what can I put here?
这到底是什么？
What what is this?
我知道这简直像魔法一样。
I know it's a magic thing to do.
是的。
Yeah.
哦，这真的太了不起了。
Oh, that that is huge.
而且我想起我们一开始谈到的，这正是我最期待的部分。
And I think and it what we talked about at the beginning, and this is the part I've been really excited to get to.
我的意思是，这些都是迈向自主财务的步骤，想想人们之前不得不做的那些枯燥工作。
I mean, those are steps towards autonomous finance, thinking about that mindless work that people have had to do.
这种工作类型让我们在多年前被贴上了标签，我知道我们现在已经进步了，但财务和会计确实被定性为成本中心。
That it that kind of work is what got us labeled years ago, and I know we've evolved since then, but got finance and accounting labeled as a cost center.
尤其是在中小企业领域，正如你所说，如果他们真有CFO，通常也是兼任的职位，很难想象一个人在担任着更高头衔的财务主管时，还能有时间进行战略规划并创造价值，因为你实际上一直在回头看。
And especially in in SMB space where if, like you said, if they do have a a CFO, it's usually maybe it's a combo role or something that it's hard to imagine having time to be strategic and add value when you're really a controller with a higher title, but really, you're look looking backwards so much.
对于中小企业来说，这种情况之所以重要，是因为他们缺乏足够的人手来完成这些工作，而这可能带来巨大改变，并推动我们走向我所说的自治财务——当你谈到自治财务时，这些正是其中的步骤。
And this kind of thing for SMBs just because they don't have the the staffing to be able to do this, that could be huge and lead towards I I I know it it sounds like this is when you talk about autonomous finance, these are steps in that progression.
那么从你的角度来看，这意味着什么？
So from your perspective, what does that mean?
而且，再次强调，我们还是特别聚焦于中小型企业。
And, again, I guess, let's stay especially focused on small and mid sized businesses.
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
当然。
Absolutely.
在我看来，自治财务不仅仅是人工智能。
The way I think about autonomous finance, it has to be more than just AI.
它不能仅仅围绕人工智能展开。
It cannot just be all about AI.
它需要一系列能让中小企业生活更轻松的措施。
It's like a whole bunch of things that the SMBs need to make their lives easier.
其中一些，我们已经在BILL内部开展了，但还需要继续做得更多。
And some of them, we have been doing here at BILL already, but just need to continue to do more of.
所以对我来说，关键是如何在任何事情上创造最多的机会，同时最小化阻力。
So to me, it's, you know, how do you create the most opportunity and have the least amount of friction in anything that you do?
这需要工具和资源的结合，你提到的这些确实如此——大公司可以砸钱解决这个问题，但中小企业并不总有机会这么做。
And it would be a combination of the tools and resources, which you mentioned, absolutely, the large companies can throw money at that problem, and SMBs don't always have that opportunity to do it.
因此，给他们合适的工具，提供AI代理确实是其中一部分，但并非全部；同时也要给予他们控制权，因为并非所有人都愿意把控制权交给AI代理。
So, you know, giving them the right tools, giving them AI agents is a part of that for sure, but not everything, but at the same time, giving them control because everybody doesn't feel the same way about giving up control to the AI agents.
对吧？
Right?
因此，我们希望构建这些功能的方式是让客户自己决定愿意放弃多少控制权。
So the way we wanna build some of these is to have the customers have a say in how much they want to give up control.
这适用于AI代理。
So that's on the AI agents.
第三点，我认为同样非常重要的是，不要为你们使用的各个系统设置多个连接入口。
And thirdly, and I think also really important is not to have multiple connection points to all the different systems that you're using.
那么，我们该如何开始整合，让客户只需通过一个入口点、一个服务提供商来解决他们的问题呢？
So how do we start to integrate and solve problems with our customers with them just having one entry point to one service provider?
这就引出了我们在BILL一直在努力做的事情，也就是我们所说的嵌入式金融。
So this is this kind of gets us into what we've been trying to do here at BILL is what we call embed finance.
这意味着我们现在正在建立合作伙伴关系。
And what that means is really we are partnering now.
几周前，我们宣布了与Paychex以及NetSuite的合作，我们将去客户所在的地方为他们提供服务。
We announced that a few weeks ago with with both paychecks as well as with NetSuite, where we're gonna go meet our customers where they're at.
你知道的？
You know?
他们会有一个连接点，简单的集成，我们会帮他们解决在许多不同需求中遇到的问题。
They will have one connection point, simple integration, and we go and solve their problems across a lot of different things that they need to do.
所以我认为，自主财务必须演变为一系列针对这些中小企业的解决方案，每天都能为他们简化生活。
So I think autonomous finance has to just evolve to a bunch of solutions for these SMBs that are just making life easier every day for them.
这太重要了，因为我想到了我现在与企业客户合作的工作。
That's so massive because I think about the work that I do with enterprise clients right now.
对于企业级的复杂不同系统，我们必须找到某种自动化方案。
And for for enterprise level, complex different systems, we have to find something automate.
我们实际上正在构建定制化的自动化流程，一切都是定制的，随之而来的是各种问题、时间和资源消耗，而这些是中小企业根本无法独自应对的。
We're actually building custom automations and everything is sort of bespoke and there's all the issues that come with that and the time, and that's not anything that SMBs could ever do on their own.
但你们能将其产品化，并通过与NetSuite等其他平台合作，将这些服务带给他们，这真正做到了与客户在他们所在的地方相遇，这其中蕴含着巨大的价值。
But for you guys to productize it and bring that to them in partnering and connecting to the other platforms like NetSuite, I mean, that's meeting them where they are, and there's huge, huge value in that.
没错。
Exactly.
我的意思是，如果出问题时不想让好几个人来联系你，也不想被不同的人分别告诉你：‘现在我可以做这个’、‘我可以解决这个问题的这一部分’。
I mean, you don't want several people to call if something goes wrong, or you don't want to be approached by several people to, oh, now I can do this, and I can do this piece of the problem.
所以我认为，我们能整合得越多，合作得越紧密，解决他们的问题就会越有效。
So I think as much as we can integrate and work together to solve their problems, I think it will be so much more effective.
是的。
Yeah.
就像我之前说的，想象一下有个人能专门专注于中小企业的需求。
And that like I was saying earlier, you know, picturing someone that's gonna come along and be able to really focus on SMBs.
而且，正如我前几天看到的，你们比尔公司处理的数据量惊人，比如处理了大约一万亿美元的支付和超过十亿份文档。
And I I think that the amount of data that Bill has and what you guys see I've read the other day what you guys have processed something like a trillion dollars in payments and over a billion documents.
正因为如此，这也印证了你之前提到的收据问题——你们拥有这些数据，能获得客户无法获取的洞察。
Because of that, and it goes to what what you're saying about the receipts too, but you have all this data that you can get the insights that your clients can't.
所以我在想，你们如何将这种数据优势转化为更智能、更可靠的代理系统，或者帮助定义产品，从而打造出一种不是高度定制化、而是能覆盖你们整个业务范围的解决方案？
So I'm wondering, how do you turn that data advantage into whether it's smarter or more reliable agents or helping kinda define the product and understand how to have something that's not that bespoke solution that this will work across our our whole spectrum.
是的。
Yeah.
我们的业务中就有好几个例子可以说明这一点。
I mean, we have several examples in our business that talk to that.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，我们拥有的所有数据和规模显然显而易见。
I mean, all of the data that we have, all of the scale that we have is obviously a no brainer.
对吧？
Right?
这自然会带来更智能的代理。
It just leads to smarter agents.
这方面的一个绝佳例子是在风险领域。
And one of the great examples of that would be in the risk space.
许多中小企业资金紧张，我们希望解决他们的现金流问题。
So a lot of SMBs are cash crunched, and we wanna solve some of the cash flow problems for them.
我们为他们提供了一些融资解决方案，比如发票融资等。
And we have some financing solutions like invoice financing and such for them.
他们不需要花很多精力去申请这些融资。
They don't have to go through a lot of work to try and, you know, get that financing.
我们在风险引擎中部署了人工智能，帮助我们迅速将资金分配给那些需要融资的供应商。
We have AI deployed in our risk engines that helps us really very quickly deploy that cash to the right suppliers who are wanting to, you know, finance.
因此，有很多领域将真正惠及中小企业，因为我们现在掌握了双方的数据。
So there's a bunch of places which are really going to benefit the SMBs because we now have the data that on the both sides.
我认为，从网络的角度来看，供应商数据和中小型企业客户数据同样重要。
I think the network is really also important in terms of thinking about you know, we have a supplier data, and we have the the SMB customers' data.
当你开始将这些数据连接起来时，就能看到付款情况，从而判断出最适合你的融资渠道。
And as you start to connect, you see the the payments that happen across what are the best funding sources for you.
你应该通过虚拟卡支付吗？
Should you be paying via virtual card?
你应该用这种方式支付，还是其他方式？
Should you be paying for by this or whatever else?
对吧？
Right?
这类决策可以由系统帮他们做出，以实现最高效的结果。
It those kind of decisions can be made for them to make it most effective.
所以我们一直在部署这套系统，以快速实现这一目标。
So we've we've been deploying that to get to that outcome rapidly.
这是一个令人惊叹的成果，但我仍然知道，你也正面临这个问题。
And that's a that's an amazing result to get to, but I still and I know you're you're facing this too.
任何这样的流程，都必须建立在客户信任和可解释性之上，并在他们希望的地方保留人工干预。
Any sort of process like this, you have to have client trust and the explainability, and then keep the human loop wherever they want it to be.
我知道信任和可解释性现在是热门话题。
And I know trust and explainability super hot topics right now.
而且，你的大多数客户是公众客户，但他们仍然需要接受审计，并且仍需遵循GAAP会计准则等要求。
And, you know, the that most of your clients are are public customers, but they could still have audit and they're still, you know, trying to have GAAP accounting to to whatever extent.
但当你构建这套系统时，我知道你必须考虑到这一点。
But when you build this, I mean, I I know you have to keep that in mind.
那么，你如何确保这一点？这也是代理系统有时具有‘黑箱’特性的原因之一。
So how do you make sure and that that's one of the issues sort of the black box nature of of agents sometimes.
但你如何确保这些代理的行为，能够让财务主管或审计人员审查、理解并验证其运作过程？
But how do you make sure that the agents act in a way that a controller or auditor could still go through and check and understand and verify what's happening?
是的
Yeah.
那是个很糟糕的问题。
And that that's a very bad question.
我花了一些时间与我们的CTO讨论他是如何建立控制机制的。
And I've spent some time with our CTO here discussing how he's putting controls.
所以我认为这就是我们花时间构建平台的原因——平台本身内置了正确的控制机制，这样每个AI代理都不需要自行过度添加控制。
So I think that was why we spent time building the platform, which has the right controls built into the platform itself so that each AI agent doesn't need to overdo with their controls.
对吧？
Right?
因此，如果控制机制已经内置，我们在发布任何GA产品之前，都会根据现有的实际流程检查其性能，确保其合规性。
So if there are controls built in, we are checking the performance before we release anything GA against the actual processes that exist, whether they're compliant.
我们所处的行业监管非常严格，因此这对我们来说至关重要。
We are in a very regulated industry, so this is super important for us.
另一点是我们拥有客户规模和信任。
And the other thing is that we have the scale and trust of the customers.
我们处理的资金量就是这么多。
We move that much money.
如果你允许某人调动如此巨额的资金，我们就拥有这种信任。
If you you're letting somebody move that much money, we have that trust.
我认为我们需要，并且我们确实在确保：凭借我们拥有的所有数据，我们的AI代理能够强大地解决客户问题，同时将正确的控制机制内置在平台中。
I think we need and we are actually making sure that with all of the data that we have, our AI agents are really powerful in terms of solving the customer problems with the right controls built into the platform.
所以我认为这就是我们的思考方式。
So I think that that's how we think about it.
但当你谈到审计追踪时，我们正试图带你回到我之前提到的SNE收据的例子。
But as you talk about the audit trail, we are trying to I'll take you back to the example of the SNE receipts that I talked about.
对吧？
Right?
收据仍然存在。
The receipt still exists.
从地点A到地点B进行核对的所有工作都消失了，但收据本身不会消失。
It's all the work to go take it from place a to place b to reconcile it, and all of that goes away, but the receipt doesn't go away.
因此，可审计性仍然完全存在，我们想要的任何结果和文档都会保留，只是我们去除了手动工作，自动化了工作流程，让这些流程在后台悄然消失。
So the auditability is still fully there, and whatever the outcomes and documentation we want will still be there, but we're just taking out the manual work and automating the workflows and making the workflows kinda disappear in the background.
是的。
Yeah.
这真的很令人兴奋，因为这项能力不再只是那些负担得起构建这些庞大系统的大型企业才有的，而是真正延伸到了中小型企业层面。
That's really I mean, that's the exciting thing when it's not a matter of the just the big players who can afford to build out these massive things, have this capability, but it really goes all the way down to the SMB level.
我知道在节目开始前，我们聊过关于我们的合作伙伴开发新功能的整个事情。
And I know before the show, we were talking about, you know, the whole build by our partner on a new capability.
而现在，鉴于我们还处于生成式AI和智能代理的早期阶段，很多情况下，如果你想要某项功能，就必须自己开发。
And right now, just with this kind of nascent stages of where we are with generative AI and agents, a lot of a lot of it was, you know, well, if you want it, you have to build it.
但我知道，你们正在构建一个未来，在那里，这些功能将成为标准配置的一部分。
But I know it sounds like you guys are building a future where it's just gonna be part of the package and everything.
但这可能也适用于你们的客户或你们自己的决策，因为我知道你们正在推动AI应用的前沿，探索如何将其应用于客户。
But and this could be a this could apply to your clients or to your own decisions because I know you guys are pushing the edge on how, you know, AI is used and and how you can apply it to your to your customers.
因此，当你们决定——无论是你们自己还是客户——是选择自建、采购还是合作开发新功能时，哪些因素会促使你们做出倾向性的选择？
So when you're deciding on that, whether it's you or or customer decision, when you're deciding on whether to build, buy, or partner on a new capability, what factors kinda tip the scale one way or another?
是的。
Yeah.
我打算再跳出来一点，从更宏观的概念来看。
I'm gonna just zoom out even away from you as just conceptually.
什么时候选择自建、购买还是合作，这是我们过去很少讨论的重要第三点。
When do you build, buy, or partner is the important third component we used to not talk as much about.
我认为，当你所提供的服务、你的业务以及你想做的这件事，是核心中的核心，是你的主营业务时，
I think when the service that you're providing and the business that you do and this thing that you want to do is very core to that, it's your bread and butter.
你就应该自己开发。
You should build it.
当然。
Absolutely.
我的意思是，这应该是内部保留的，可能涉及一些知识产权，你当然希望掌控客户体验。
I mean, it's it's a it should stay in house that's probably has some IP and whatnot, and you want to control the customer experience for sure.
这就是自建。
So that's the build.
购买，包括收购在内的所有这些，对我来说是一种单向门，当你购买某种能力时，比如购买大语言模型的能力。
The buy, and I include acquisitions and all of that stuff in the buy, is to me a little bit of a one way door when you're buying a capability when it's just, you know, let's say, buying the capability of the LLMs.
这并不是我们业务的核心，也不是我们是谁、我们做什么的一部分。
We're not gonna that's not core to our business and who we are and what we do.
别人能做得好得多。
Somebody else can do a much better job.
所以我们不会自己开发大语言模型，但我们会从别人那里购买这项能力。
So we're not gonna start writing our own LLMs, but we are going to go buy that from somebody.
但我认为第三重要的事情是合作。
But I think the third most important thing is partner.
对吧？
Right?
有哪些能力？
What are the capabilities?
在我看来，合作伙伴关系非常好，因为它们是双向门，你可以自由进出。
And to me, partnerships are great because those are two way doors that you can walk in and out of.
那里真正的黏性比较低。
There's really less stickiness there.
你需要建立信任。
You need to build trust.
你需要看看这对双方是否都适用。
You need to see if it works for both the parties.
如果适用，你就进一步深入合作。
And if it does, you go deeper in.
对吧？
Right?
我们在业务中正在开展很多合作伙伴关系。
And we we are doing a lot of partnerships in our business.
资本投入更少。
It's less capital outlay.
我认为这对双方都是双赢的，这又回到了我们正在做的嵌入式解决方案。
I think it's a win win for both the parties, and this is, again, going back to the embed solutions we are doing.
你知道，通过这些合作伙伴，我们能够接触到原本需要更长时间才能触达的客户。
You know, we are getting to the customers that otherwise would take us longer to get to through these partners.
这些客户已经存在，而我们的合作伙伴也能满足他们的所有需求。
Those customers are already there, and our partners are able to serve their customers with all the needs as well.
所以我觉得这真是一个双赢的局面。
So I think it it's just a great win win.
而且我认为，整个行业正越来越多地向合作伙伴关系发展。
And I think I see the industry more and more evolved towards partnerships.
这确实是正确的方向。
It's just the right way to go.
是的。
Yeah.
我很喜欢这一点。
I love that.
至于你提到的，如果这是你的核心技能、职能和专注点，那么显然，这说得通。
And and your to your point on if it is your core skill set and function and focus, obviously, yes, that makes sense.
但除此之外，比如在比尔的情况下，其他平台也使用着相同的客户群体，让所有人都使用同一协议、遵循同一标准，实现无缝集成，这是有道理的。
But otherwise, like in in Bill's case, other platforms that the same customer base is using, it makes sense for everyone to have to to be in the same protocol to sing from the same sheet of music and to be able to integrate seamlessly.
我只是在想，无论是ERP实施，还是你对财务技术栈进行任何更改时。
And it's just, I think about whether it's an ERP implementation or anytime you're making a change in your finance tech stack.
如果切换成本很高，因为两个系统无法良好协作，那么对所有人来说都会更加困难。
Like, if it's if the switching cost is painful because the two systems don't play well together, then it just it makes it harder for everyone.
所以听起来，无论你们推出的新功能，还是这些合作关系，都将大大减少中小企业的摩擦，这非常重要。
So it really sounds like that whether it's new features you guys are rolling out or those partnerships that it's really gonna make reduce that friction for SMBs and that that's huge.
当然。
Absolutely.
减少摩擦，不仅是在初期启动时的摩擦，还包括日常运营中，你只需通过一个接入点连接所有内容。
Reduce the friction, not only that one time getting started friction, but also every day as you're operating, you just have one point of connection for everything.
好了，我们快到节目时间了。
Well, we are getting to the time of the show.
我简直不敢相信时间过得这么快，我们还有两个标准问题要问每个人。
I can't believe it's it's flown by, where we have our two standard questions that we ask everyone.
第一个问题是，有什么事情是很少人知道的吗？
And the first one is, what is something that not many people know about you?
一些我们在网上找不到的事情。
Something that we couldn't find online.
我烤的面包特别棒。
I do bake a mean bread.
这在我目前的角色，或者过去几年的任何角色中都很重要，因为前一周压力越大，周末做的面包就越复杂。
And why that is important in my current role or any other role in the past few years is that the more stressful the week before, the more complex the bread over the weekend.
我喜欢好好揉面，把所有压力都揉出去。
And I just like to knead it really well to take out all that insight.
这效果真的很好，我的家人也很喜欢。
It just works really well, and my family loves it.
所以，这又是一个双赢的局面。
So it's, again, a win win situation.
我喜欢这种烘焙疗愈的方式。
I love that baking therapy.
它是
It's
我觉得更像是揉面疗法，但结果很棒。
It's it's more kneading therapy, I would say, but the outcome is great.
你最喜欢哪种面包？
What's your favorite bread?
你知道吗，我不确定。
You know, I don't know.
我
I'm
别告诉我你是生酮或生食饮食。
Don't tell me your paleo or keto.
不是。
No.
我其实有点儿在往那个方向走。
I was actually I was kinda sorta going down that.
我对这些碳水化合物的东西有点被洗脑了。
I'm I'm sort of brainwashed a little bit on this carb stuff.
所以，好吧。
So okay.
这个我得开始录下来了，因为我超爱听到的所有回答。
This one is I need to start recording these because I love all the answers that I get.
而且有一些答案总是排在前面。
And there are some consistent ones at the top.
但我特别喜欢问CFO们这个问题，因为在我当主持人之前，我曾经是这个节目的嘉宾。
But I love asking this to CFOs because I was a guest on the show before I was the host of it.
你和我都清楚，当你是个分析师，深陷在细节里的时候，你知道Excel能做很多酷炫的事情，对这个问题你也有现成的答案。
And it you and I know that when I mean, when you're an analyst and you're down in the weeds, you know all kinds of cool things that Excel can do, and you've got a a ready answer for this.
但当你是CFO时，是的，你想了解模型是怎么运作的，但你不会亲自去写复杂的IF语句，或者在Excel里写Python代码之类的。
But when, you know, the CFO, yeah, you wanna understand how the models work, but you're not out there writing complex let statements and using whatever, you know, writing Python in in Excel and all that.
所以，有人告诉我，我的回答让我显得有点过时了。
So and I think someone told me I dated myself with with my answer.
但说这么多，我想我说的是居中并合并。
But all that to say, I I think I said center and merge.
那是我最喜欢的。
It was my favorite.
不可能。
No way.
或者就是不行。
Or it's just a no.
我不喜欢合并单元格，因为它会破坏电子表格的灵活性。
I do not like merge cells because it kinda messes up the flexibility of your spreadsheet.
确实完全如此。
It a 100% does.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
而且当你试图制作一个机器可读的表格时，这会让事情变得更奇怪。
It's and it makes things even weirder from when you if you're trying to do a machine readable spreadsheet too.
所以，综合以上，你最喜欢的Excel函数是什么？为什么？
So so with all that, what is your favorite Excel function and why?
这就像问一位母亲选择她最喜欢的孩子一样。
That's like asking a mom to choose her favorite child.
我真的很喜欢Excel。
I I love Excel.
我要说的不止一个，但我会先从数据透视表开始，因为我确实非常喜欢它们。
You know, what I'm gonna say I'm gonna start with I'm gonna give you more than one, but I'm gonna start with pivot tables only because well, I do love them.
我喜欢它的简洁、优雅，以及它如何轻松地转换数据。
I love the simplicity, elegance, and how it simply transforms the data.
但，你认识我们的CTO肯·莫斯吗？
But, also, I don't know if you know our CTO, Ken Moss.
他在微软工作时，对数据透视表的开发起到了关键作用。
He actually was instrumental in building pivot tables when he was in Microsoft.
所以他一直不停地提醒我们。
So he keeps reminding us all the time.
向肯·莫斯致敬。
So shout out to Ken Moss.
谢谢你，肯。
Thank you, Ken.
是的。
Yeah.
但我要告诉你，VLOOKUP演变为索引匹配之类的功能，真的非常棒。
But I will tell you that, you know, love, the evolution of VLOOKUPs into index matches and all of that, it's been fantastic.
但很少用到的‘目标搜索’却在很多棘手的情况下救了我。
But very infrequently used, Goal Seek has saved me in a lot of sticky situations.
这是一个巧妙的公式。
That's an ingenious formula.
我会说‘目标搜索’。
I would I would say Goal Seek.
百分之百。
A 100%.
我很久没用过了，但我还记得第一次看到它时，我觉得这太神奇了。
And I haven't used it in forever, but I can remember the first time I saw that, I was like, this is magic.
这太
This is
太神奇了。
It's magic.
是的。
Yes.
你不用它，这很好。
You don't use it, which is good.
当你需要它的时候，它真的很有帮助。
You shouldn't be when you need it, it's really helpful.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我的第一个CFO职位，我想是在2007年。
So my first CFO role, I guess, was back in 2007.
当被问到这个问题时，我的回答是VLookup。
And when I was asked that question, my answer was VLookup.
甚至不是后来的版本。
Not even a later iteration.
很特别。
Special.
是的。
Yeah.
我同意你的看法。
I agree with you.
这很特别。
It's special.
它已经很成熟了。
It's it's mature.
有一个2.0版本，它是通过索引而不是3.0版本，3.0是x之类的。
There's a two dot o, which is indexed by instead of three dot o, which is x or something.
我甚至不知道那个版本叫什么名字。
I don't know what the one is called even.
但没错，我大概是你们那个年代的人，我们都很喜欢VLOOKUP。
But, yeah, I'm probably from your times, and we loved VLOOKUP.
是的。
Yeah.
我总是说，如果我现在还得亲手编写复杂的电子表格，那就说明出大问题了。
And I always say if I'm having to write, make complex spreadsheets right now, then something has gone horribly wrong.
所以
So
我也喜欢把这当一种减压方式。
I like to do that for therapy as well.
没错。
That is true.
我仍然会在Excel里做一些奇怪的事情，比如给家人写信。
I still do weird things in Excel, like, oh, writing a letter to a family member.
我们用Excel来做吧。
Let's do it in Excel.
我们来看看。
Let's see.
我用Excel做笔记。
I take notes in Excel.
我仍然用Excel做笔记。
I still take notes in Excel.
是的。
Yes.
好了，Rohini，非常感谢你来参加这个节目。
Well, Rohini, I really appreciate you coming on the show.
这真是太棒了。
This has this has been fantastic.
我很喜欢听你讲述你的经历以及你在BILL所做的一切。
I loved hearing about your journey and about everything that you're doing at BILL.
当然。
Absolutely.
这是一次愉快的经历。
It was a pleasure.
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