精选集：迈克尔·香农 / 《群策群力》主演蕾亚·希霍恩

我们剧组和演员之间有过许多精彩的对话。

And we had amazing conversations among the crew and the cast.

你知道，有些深夜拍摄甚至周末加班时，我们会讨论类似‘你会选择对个人最有利的，还是对整个群体最有利的’这样的问题。

You know, some of these late night shoots and even on weekends, stuff of like, well, would you choose what's best for the individual versus what's best for the community as a whole?

就我个人而言，在辩论时我绝对会站在卡罗尔那边，支持独立思考的必要性和积极意义。

I personally think I would absolutely be team Carol as far as arguing, you know, the necessity and the positives of individual thinking and independent thinking.

对我来说一个重要启示是：群体思维无论多么智慧平和，但幸福与快乐（或许略有不同）的要素之一就是意外惊喜——无论是孩童时期乃至成年后仍能感受到的惊奇，还是开怀大笑的瞬间。

For one thing, a big thing that came up for me was the fact that this group think, no matter how intelligent and how peaceful one of the ideas of happiness and joy, which maybe is slightly different, is being surprised by things, whether it's wonder growing up as a kid and hopefully still as an adult or a giant belly laugh.

如果你无法感到惊喜，就永远不会有新的艺术诞生。

And if you cannot be surprised, there's never gonna be any new art.

你听到的每个笑话都会是陈词滥调。

There's never gonna be a joke that you haven't heard.

再也不会有什么出人意料的行为能逗你发笑。

There's never gonna be surprise behavior that makes you laugh.

这对我来说是巨大的快乐源泉，所以我实在无法把满足感等同于幸福。

And that's just such a source of joy for me, that I just can't imagine that contentment is the same as happiness.

你在《Pluribus》中饰演的角色还有一个特点是她经常处于愤怒状态。

One of the other characteristics of your character in, Pluribus is that she is angry a lot of the time.

她本来就有愤怒问题，而现在她是全世界仅存的12、13个未受外星技术影响的人之一，这让她时刻处于愤怒中。

She already had a kind of anger issue, but now that she's one of like 12 or 13 people in the whole world who haven't been affected by this whatever it is, this alien technology, she's angry all the time.

要知道，她的妻子在这场变故刚开始时就因此丧生，而她无人可以倾诉，因为所有人都被改变了。

You know, her wife died as this thing started, as a result of this thing, and she has no one she can really confide in because everybody is transformed.

而且她坚信这背后藏着极其可怕的东西。

And she knows that she believes there's something really terrible behind this.

所以她总是怒气冲冲。

So she's angry all the time.

你在《风骚律师》里演的角色也有自己的愤怒问题，你确实很擅长表现愤怒。

Your character on Better Call Saul had her own anger issues, and you're really good at expressing anger.

Kim Wexler是个极其擅长压抑愤怒的人，而我认为Carol不是这样的。

Kim Wexler was an incredibly capable person at suppressing it, whereas I do not think Carol is.

不过...确实，她确实怀有一种带有正义感的愤怒。

But but, yeah, I guess she did have anger, a certain, righteousness about her.

所以，我们之前讨论过这部剧如何影响了你对幸福的思考。

So, you know, we talked about how the series has affected you thinking about happiness.

那愤怒呢？

What about anger?

因为愤怒确实具有破坏性。

Because anger can be really destructive.

在《Pluribus》剧集中，当她发怒时，就会有人丧命。

And in the series in Pluribus, when she gets angry, people die.

愤怒简直就是毒药，致命的毒药。

Like, anger is literally poison, a killing poison.

但在现实生活中，有时愤怒很重要，首先你需要表达自己。

But in real life, sometimes it's important to get angry because first of all, just need to express yourself.

其次，需要让对方知道你确实被冒犯、受伤或认为某事在道德伦理上是错误的，有时需要愤怒才能真正传达观点。

But second of all, somebody needs to know that you're really offended or hurt or think that something is morally or ethically wrong, and sometimes it takes anger to really get the point across.

你发现自己经常思考愤怒这个问题吗？

Did you find yourself thinking about anger a lot?

非常多。

A lot.

你的愤怒程度如何？

And your levels of anger?

我不知道你是否喜欢表达愤怒。

I have no idea if you like to express anger.

不喜欢。

No.

我一直在极力挣扎，因为我总是压抑自己的愤怒。

I struggle mightily with, with how much I suppress my anger.

正如你所说，愤怒可以被视为一种几乎像瘴气般会扩散的东西。

And as you said, there's this idea of anger can be, you know, miasma almost that, like, can spread.

我们都见过可怕的事情发生——当人们被愤怒和消极情绪煽动得口吐白沫时。

And we've all seen, like, horrible things can happen when it you just are riling people up with you know, frothing at the mouth with anger about things and negativity.

但同时它也是一种必要的情绪，我认为这是剧中我认同的观点之一——所有情绪都很重要，不仅仅是快乐。

At the same time, it is a necessary emotion, which I think is one of the arguments in the show that I side with of of the idea that all of the emotions are important, not just happiness.

我曾问过文斯，他并不是特别因为我作为女性扮演这个角色才从这个角度出发。我为此思考了很久，因为我确实觉得我成长在一个可能...也许是我自己的问题，但感觉我被教导认为愤怒——尤其是来自女性的愤怒——是令人不快的，我应该想办法让我的要求显得温和，不要表达太多愤怒。

And but I had asked Vince, and he he he wasn't coming at it from an angle of particularly because I'm a woman playing the role, that I I paused a lot thinking about that because I do think that I have grown up in a world that maybe maybe it's on me, but it felt as though, I was taught that, anger was unpalatable specifically from females, and that I should find a way to make it palatable, my make my requests palatable, and and not express a lot of anger.

在我更年轻的时候，十几岁时我会尖叫发泄。

When I was much younger, I would scream it as a teenager.

你知道的，就是那种典型的青少年时期为了一些像发胶之类的蠢事在家里争吵尖叫。

You know, screaming, yelling, like the typical arguments you have over hairspray and idiotic things at home as a teenager.

但后来我父母离婚了，所以家里就剩下三个女性：我妈妈、我姐姐和我。

But, plus it was, my parents were divorced, and so it was a household of three, women, my mom and my sister and I.

所以实际上确实有很多关于发胶的争吵。

So there were actually a lot of hairspray arguments.

但你知道，人总会慢慢摆脱这种完全情绪化的状态，不再口无遮拦地想说什么就说什么，然后你就进入了现实世界。

But, you know, you kind of grow out of this complete temperamental, just I'm gonna spew anything I want coming out of my mouth, and you get out into the real world.

这确实感觉像...你问这个问题很有趣，因为我还没想明白，这是我看到的某种现象吗？

And it it it did feel like and it's interesting you ask because I haven't pinned down, like, was it something I saw?

是现实生活中看到的，还是电视剧里的情节？

Was you know, in real life or something on a television show?

或者我究竟是从哪里接收到这种信息——认为提高音量、言辞犀利是不被允许的？

Or what where was I getting this messaging that that it wasn't okay to raise my voice, to be very, very sharp?

我不确定这个问题的答案，但我知道它发展到了过分的程度，确切地说就是那种——明明完全不同意对方的说法，却只是点头称是或敷衍应对的状态。

I'm I'm not I'm not sure of the answer of that, but I know that it got to a place where it went too far, literally to the place of, like, I'm nodding and just saying yes or whatever to, you know, somebody that's maybe speaking to me in a way that I absolutely disagree with.

我回到家就会爆发湿疹，这绝非夸张。

I go home and break out in eczema, and that's not an exaggeration.

天啊。

Gosh.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

所以很明显，愤怒情绪总要有去处。

So I'm just like, clearly, the anger is going somewhere.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

我不认为冲着别人脸大喊大叫是对的，但我觉得自己在压抑愤怒时变得过度回避冲突，这并不健康。

I don't think it's okay to scream and yell in someone's face, but I think I have become conflict avoidant in the suppression of that anger to a degree that's not healthy.

不过我会毫不犹豫地为别人挺身而出。

I will stand up for somebody else, though, in a heartbeat.

如果看到旁边有人被欺负，我会立刻站出来。

If somebody else is being mistreated next to me, I'm I'm in there.

我会立即行动。

I'll take you to the mat.

但如果是对着我来的，我往往会选择忍气吞声，试图想办法化解。

But if it's at me, I tend to swallow it and try to figure out how I can make it better.

我们正在收听特里对雷·西霍恩的采访，他出演了Apple TV新剧《Pluribus》。

We're listening to Terry's interview with Ray Seahorn, who stars in the new Apple TV series Pluribus.

休息片刻后我们将继续聆听他们的对话，莫林·科里根将分享她的年度最佳书单。

We'll hear more of their conversation after a break, and Maureen Corrigan will share her list of the year's best books.

我是戴夫·戴维斯，这里是《新鲜空气》周末版。

I'm Dave Davies, and this is fresh air weekend.

《小说改编者》播客节目，我们将《黑客帝国》和《辣身舞》等经典电影改编成爆笑有声书，由瑞秋·德拉奇、艾拉·格拉斯、萨曼莎·比、威尔·福特、韦恩·布雷迪、J·K·西蒙斯等嘉宾倾情演绎。

The Novelizers podcast where we turn classic films like the matrix and dirty dancing into hilarious audiobooks narrated by guests like Rachel Dratch, Ira Glass, Samantha Bee, Will Forte, Wayne Brady, JK Simmons, and more.

欢迎收听由我——戴夫·希尔主持的《小说改编者》播客，节目由辛辛那提公共电台和NPR电台网络联合出品。

Listen to the Novelizers podcast hosted by me, Dave Hill, from Cincinnati Public Radio and the NPR Network.

节日期间，人们总被追求完美的压力所困扰，但这反而会让节日季失去欢乐光彩。

During the holidays, there's a lot of pressure to make things perfect, but that can actually make the season less merry and bright.

我记得当时心想：天啊。

And I remember thinking, oh my gosh.

在所有这些忙碌中，我根本不在场。

In all the doing, I am not here.

我没有真正参与其中。

I'm not present.

我错过了存在的意义。

I am missing being.

本周NPR电台网络《生活指南》播客为您带来让节日季真正愉悦的实用建议。

This week on the Life Kit podcast from the NPR network, tips to make your holiday season actually enjoyable.

请在NPR应用或您获取播客的任何平台收听。

Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

这个假期，送出一份回馈社会的礼物。

This holiday season, give a gift that gives back.

NPR商店回归，带来标志性的Logo T恤、Tiny Desk连帽衫以及公共媒体粉丝的新鲜周边。

The NPR shop is back with the iconic logo tee, the tiny desk hoodie, and fresh gear for fans of public media.

您的穿着资助了您收听的内容。

What you wear funds what you hear.

立即在shopnpr.org选购有意义的礼物。

Shop meaningful gifts now at shopnpr.org.

让我们回到Teri对Ray Seahorn的采访。

Let's get back to Teri's interview with Ray Seahorn.

她主演了Apple TV新剧《Pluribus》。

She stars in the new Apple TV series Pluribus.

Seahorn和该剧都获得了金球奖提名。

Both Seahorn and the show have been nominated for Golden Globe Awards.

我想指出剧中另一个与当下密切相关的话题。

I wanna point out something else that I think is very relevant to today in the series.

这部剧名为《Pluribus》，翻译过来就是'合众为一'的意思。

The series is called Pluribus, which translates to, you know, out of many, one.

在这个特朗普政府尽其所能将多样性、公平性和包容性视为非法的时代，'合众为一'始终是美国立国的基本原则或口号之一。

And in this era where diversity, equity, and inclusion is basically being, outlawed to the extent that they can by the Trump administration, pluribus unum has always been like one of the founding principles or slogans, if you wanna call it that, of The United States.

因此这种趋同现象实际上与DEI（多样性、公平、包容）背道而驰，因为这里既没有多样性也没有公平性。

So this this kind of conformity is really the opposite of DEI because there's no diversity and equity.

既然没有多样性，自然也就不需要公平性和包容性，因为所有人的想法都一样。

There's no need there's no diversity, so there's no need for equity and inclusion because everybody has the same thoughts.

或者你也可以说这是终极的全面包容，每个人都拥有完全平等的一切。

Or you could argue that it's the ultimate in, all inclusion, and everybody has equal everything.

确实如此。

That's true.

确实如此。

That's true.

但这是通过抹去他们的宗教、种族和地域特征实现的。

But that's by erasing their religion, their ethnicity, their geography.

或者可以说他们包含所有宗教，涵盖所有地域。

Or you could say they are all religions, and they are all geographies.

没错。

Right.

你也可以说他们都是人工智能，因为他们说话时听起来就是那样。

And you could also say they're all artificial intelligence because that's also how they sound when they're speaking.

他们不是。

They're not.

但他们说话时，有时听起来就像...你知道的，那种语言人工智能在讲话

But when they speak, it sometimes sounds like, you know you know, the verbal artificial intelligence talking

确实。

Right.

致

To

你。

you.

我也非常欣赏我们的新教皇，他最喜欢的格言似乎是。

I also really appreciate that our that our new pope, that his favorite motto apparently is.

所以我真的很感谢他为节目做宣传。

So I I really appreciate him advertising the show.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

我以为你要告诉我他是粉丝，我还想，真的吗？

I thought you're gonna tell me he was a fan, and I thought, really?

他哪有时间？

He has time?

不。

No.

不。

No.

他只是说那是他最喜欢的格言之一，我想。

He just says that he that, like, that came out that that was his, one of his favorite mottos, I guess.

然后我们就大笑起来。

And I was like we were just laughing.

谢谢。

Thanks.

谢谢你的宣传。

Thanks for the shout out.

你的角色最初是个拥有狂热粉丝的著名爱情小说家，她去书店做了场读者见面会，大家都非常喜欢。

So your character starts off as a famous romance novelist with this ardent following, and she goes to a bookstore and does a reading there which everybody loves.

这是本关于海盗的船上爱情小说。

And it's it's, you know, a romance novel aboard a ship with a pirate.

总之，书里用的全是那种典型爱情小说的语言。

Anyways, the language is full of, like, really typical romance book language.

所以你有去做调研吗？去参加过爱情小说家的读者见面会？

So I did you do research and go to readings, of romance novelists?

我确实去了。

I did.

我去了'The Ripped Bodice'，这是一家超棒的言情小说书店，专门经营言情小说，位于卡尔弗城。

I went to, The Ripped Bodice, which is an amazing romance novel store, that only does romance novels in, in Culver City.

我只是进去随便看了看。

And just flipped in and looked around.

我得告诉你，首先让我震惊的是言情小说的子类型数量以及这些子类型的细分程度。

I have to tell you, one of the first things that struck me is the amount of subgenres and the specificity about of these subgenres.

有历史题材的，超自然题材的。

It's historical, paranormal.

还有浪漫悬疑题材的。

It could be romance suspense.

而在这些大类下，还有更细分的子类型，比如有些人喜欢对话更多的，话痨型的，而另一些则偏好描写更细致的。

Then within that, there were sub subgenres of ones that, people that want them to be more dialogue, more chatty versus more Descriptive.

描写更细致的。

More descriptive.

描述性的。

Descriptive.

是啊。

Yeah.

当然，你知道，还有LGBTQIA题材的作品。

And, certainly, you know, there's LGBTQIA stuff.

有些作品人们希望语言具有时代感。

There's stuff that people really want to sound period.

有些作品人们想要未来感，而不是非常现代的俚语表达。

There's stuff that people want to sound futuristic, versus very contemporary slang language.

这有点不可思议。

It was kind of incredible.

不过我还看了几个人朗读自己的作品，粉丝群体的多样性让我很惊讶。

But I also I watched a couple people do readings from their books, and I was really surprised at the breadth of people of fans listening.

有很多人打扮得像早期的史蒂薇·妮克丝，非常美。

There was a lot of people dressed like early Stevie Nicks, in a beautiful way.

但同样也有，你知道的，就是有那么一对看起来刚从公司下班的白领夫妇，穿着职业套装，有年轻人，有比我年长的，也有比我年轻的。

But then there was also, like, you know, just a there was, some couple that looked like they came straight from a corporate job, a man and a woman in office suits, young people, old people younger than me, people older than me.

这确实让我深刻认识到这个类型的作品有多么庞大，以及它包含了多少不同的小说类型。

It definitely it definitely wizened me to, how huge this genre is and how much it encapsulates, you know, all the different novels it has.

所以《Pluribus》中的角色最初是文斯·吉里根为男性写的，后来他决定为你重写。

So the character in Pluribus was originally written for a man by Vince Gilligan, and then he decided to rewrite it for you.

这是怎么发生的？

How did that happen?

我不认为存在过男性角色的剧本版本，然后他回头重写。

I don't believe there were scripts, you know, with a male character, and then he went back and rewrote.

我记得他说他是

I think he said he was

从构思时就

Conceiving it from

在考虑这个角色，对。

Kicking around yeah.

构思了不少他感兴趣的概念。

Conceiving quite a few concepts he was interested in.

我记得他是这么说的，那是在《风骚律师》第一季期间。

I think he said that, and it was during Better Call Saul, in season one.

他说会从编剧室休息时，利用午餐时间散步之类的，就这样开始了——这就是他的工作方式。

I think he said taking breaks from the writer's room and, walking around on lunch breaks and stuff and just started it's just how he works.

想法会突然蹦进他脑海，有时是些没有答案的问题，其中一个就是：如果你醒来发现整个世界都对你卑躬屈膝会怎样？

He just ideas will pop in his head, sometimes questions without answers, and one of them was, what would happen if, you woke up and the whole world was obsequious?

整个世界都愿意为你做任何事，给你任何想要的东西。

The whole world was willing to do whatever you wanted to and give you anything you want.

原本是个男性角色，他说这只是因为男性视角对他而言是第二本能，毕竟他自己是男性，也一直写男性主角。

And it was a male character, and he has said that, it's just because that's second nature to him, that he is a man, and he has written male protagonist.

具体转变的时机和原因我不清楚，直到《风骚律师》全部拍完后我才知道这事。

And then I don't know the exact, like, shift that happened or where, but I didn't know about it until after we had wrapped all of Better Call Saul.

但他说大概是在《风骚律师》第一季快结束时，他观察我的工作状态，我们经常讨论我的工作方式，他也看我表演，然后决定...（我结巴是因为这话很难说出口，这个赞美和抬举让我受宠若惊，说得委婉些，我实在不好意思这样评价自己）

But he said it was during, I think, towards the end of season one of Better Call Saul that he was just watching me work and had talked to me a lot about the the way I work as well as watching me perform and decided that I'm stuttering because it's hard to say this because I'm I'm I'm floored by the compliment and the flattery, to put it mildly, and and struggle saying it about myself.

但他说他意识到，我我必须为她写点什么。

But he said that he he realized, like, I I have to write something for her.

我我必须，我需要确保与她合作一个项目。

I I have to, I need to make sure that I do, a project with her.

实际上，我正在构思的这些概念，如果以她为主角会不会效果更好？

And, actually, wouldn't these concepts that I'm noodling with, wouldn't they work even better if they were her?

他也知道自己想尝试不同的基调，可以走黑色幽默路线，也可以偏向心理惊悚。

And he knew that he also wanted to play with tone and take wild swings as far as, like, it could be darkly comedic or it could be darkly psychological.

有时候风格会在两者之间来回切换。

Sometimes it's gonna, you know, go between back and forth.

而他对我的这种表现能力印象深刻。

And he was impressed, at my ability to do those things.

要我这样评价自己实在太难为情了。

So hard for me to say about myself.

这集标题干脆就叫这个好了。

That can be the title of this episode.

雷西霍恩自吹自擂。

Racyhorn brags about herself.

是啊。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

听着。

Listen.

采访时我不得不坐在他旁边听他这么说，当时我的脸涨得像个通红的大番茄。

I've had to sit next to him in interviews when he's saying it, and I'm just I'm just my face is one giant tomato red ball when he's saying it.

不过，我确实对此非常感激。

But, but I'm certainly very thankful for it.

你曾以为自己会以画家的身份在视觉艺术领域发展。

You thought you would have a career in the visual arts as a painter.

你是怎么进入演艺圈的？

How did you get in acting?

是什么让你改变了主意？

What changed your mind?

我极度渴望逃离常规生活去闯荡演艺圈，我指的是电视和电影行业。

I wanted so badly to run away with the circus, and by that, I mean television and film.

我对影视作品非常着迷。

I was obsessed with television film.

作为一个在弗吉尼亚郊区长大的孩子，我从未认识任何与娱乐行业哪怕有一丁点关联的人，觉得这根本是个不可能实现的梦想。

And as a kid in the suburbs in Virginia, I'd never known anybody that had even the loosest association with the entertainment business and thought it was just an impossible dream.

后来在乔治梅森大学的第一年，学校要求你必须选修一门非本专业的艺术课程，而我的专业是美术。

And then in my first year at George Mason University, you had to take an elective in the arts that was not your major, and my major was fine arts.

于是我选了伦尼·雷巴克教授的表演课。

And so I took an acting class with Lenny Raybuck.

值得庆幸的是，那并不是一门情绪泛滥的感性课程。

And very thankfully, it was not a emotional ooey gooey class.

后来我上过不少那种课，但这次是门硬核的作业型剧本分析课，采用的是从大西洋剧院发展出来的实用美学方法。

I took plenty of those later, but this was a hardcore do your homework script analysis class using, practical aesthetics that was developed out of the Atlantic Theater.

我深深爱上了这个事实：只要你真正努力学习和钻研，就能逐步接近并最终擅长这件事，甚至有一天可能达到卓越境界。

And I just was in love with the fact that if you work really hard and study, you can incrementally get closer and closer to being good at this, and hopefully, one day, great at this.

这对我来说是最好的消息。

And that was the best news ever to me.

因为虽然我对如何做好这件事知之甚少，但我想，只要愿意投入时间，待在家里钻研和练习，我就完全愿意。

Because I didn't know a lot about how to do this thing, but I thought, oh, if you just want hours put in and, like, stay home and study and work at this, I I'm I'm in.

然后很快意识到，这其实是在研究人类行为和智慧，而有时这确实来自一个非常艰难的家庭环境。

And then almost immediately, the idea that, oh, this is studying the behavior of humans and the wise, and and it was, at times, a very difficult household, coming up.

更让我震撼的是，你能够通过分析人们想要什么，以及他们因无法采取正确策略或受限于环境而受阻，来理解人类行为。

And the idea that you could actually start thinking about people's behavior as a result of what it is that they want and their inability to use the correct tactic or the given circumstance that are holding them back.

这种组织人类行为的方式不仅让我产生共情，还能通过模仿来吸引观众，在舞台上与他们共同经历一段旅程，这彻底改变了我的认知。

It's just like it blew my mind that that is how you can organize human behavior and not only have empathy for it, but mimic it in a way that invites people in to go on a journey with you when you're on stage.

后来我开始去华盛顿特区的剧院看戏——我认为那里有世界上最好的戏剧表演——看着那些演员，我就下定决心必须立刻投身这个事业。

And then I started going to DC Theater, which I think is some of the world's best theater as Washington DC Theater, and watching those performers, and was just like, I have to do this immediately.

我必须要用余生来做这件事。

I I have to do this for the rest of my life.

我不知道还得打多少份零工。

I don't know how many day jobs I'm gonna have to have.

这与成名无关。

It was not about being famous.

我知道我必须成为一名演员，无论如何我都会养活自己。

I I knew that I I I had to be an actor, and I'd support myself however I had to.

好的，Racy Horn，非常感谢你。

Well, Racy Horn, I wanna thank you so much.

这次采访让我非常愉快。

I've really enjoyed this interview.

我真的很喜欢Pluribus。

I really like Pluribus.

谢谢。

And Thanks.

所以感谢你所做的一切。

So thank you for all of that.

能来到这里真是梦想成真。

This is a dream come true being here.

雷·西霍恩主演了苹果TV新剧《Pluribus》。

Ray Seahorn stars in the new Apple TV series Pluribus.

需要为节日送礼选本书吗？

Need a book for holiday gift giving?

莫琳·科里根至少能推荐10本。

Maureen Corrigan can recommend at least 10.

这是她年度最佳书单。

Here's her annual best books list.

我今年选的最佳书籍偏向非虚构类，但入选的小说以其宏大叙事和强烈情感弥补了这种失衡。

My picks for this year's best books tilt a bit to nonfiction, but the novels that made the cut redress the imbalance by their sweep and intensity.

凯伦·拉塞尔备受期待的第二部小说《解药》是我心目中的年度最佳小说。

Karen Russell's long awaited second novel, The Antidote, is my pick for novel of the year.

这部关于移民、土地掠夺与野心的史诗巨作以内布拉斯加州为背景，以两场真实气象灾难为框架：1935年4月14日令人窒息的'黑色星期天'沙尘暴，以及一个月后的共和河洪水。

An epic story of immigration, land grabs, and aspiration, The antidote is set in Nebraska and framed by two actual weather catastrophes, the Black Sunday dust storm on 04/14/1935 in which people were suffocated by a moving black wall of dust, and a month later, the Republican River flood.

这里的核心人物是一位所谓的草原女巫，她通过承载顾客们无法承受的认知来治愈他们。

The central character here is a so called prairie witch who heals her customers by holding whatever they can't stand to know.

罗素本人就是美国文坛的草原女巫，从民族集体无意识中挖掘记忆，并通过她摄人心魄的文字邀请我们看清历史的完整面貌。

Russell herself is America's own prairie witch of a writer, exhuming memories out of our national unconscious and inviting us through her spellbinding writing to see our history in full.

帕特里克·瑞安的《七叶树》则是一部更为直白的历史小说，如书名所示，故事背景设定在俄亥俄州。

Patrick Ryan's Buckeye is a more straightforward historical novel set, as its title indicates, in Ohio.

时间线从二战前延伸至二十世纪末，故事聚焦于两对已婚夫妇。。。

Stretching from pre World War two to the close of the twentieth century, the story focuses on two married couples.

我们初次见到玛格丽特·索尔特时，这位红发美人走进五金店，要求正在工作的卡尔·詹金斯打开收音机。

When we first meet her, Margaret Salt, a redheaded looker, walks into the hardware store where Cal Jenkins works and demands that he turn on the radio.

街上发生了骚动。

There's commotion in the streets.

由于玛格丽特的丈夫在海军服役，她迫切想知道发生了什么。

And because Margaret's husband is in the navy, she wants to know what's happening.

结果传来德国投降的消息。

It turns out Germany has surrendered.

情绪激动的玛格丽特亲吻了卡尔，已婚的卡尔对此颇为享受。

Overwhelmed, Margaret kisses Cal, and married man Cal likes it.

贯穿整部小说，瑞安的叙述者不断强调偶然时刻如何塑造我们的人生。

Throughout the novel, Ryan's narrator underscores how chance moments shape our lives.

与凯伦·拉塞尔一样，基兰·德赛也让读者苦等她的第二部小说，但索尼娅和桑尼的孤独感让这份等待物有所值。

Like Karen Russell, Kieran Desai has kept readers waiting for her second novel, but the loneliness of Sonya and Sonny makes the wait worthwhile.

故事开始时，佛蒙特州的大学生索尼娅正因思念故乡印度而郁郁寡欢。

At the outset, Sonia, a college student in Vermont, is homesick for her native India.

她的抑郁状态使她容易受到一位来访画家的影响——那是个艺术界的怪物。

Her depression makes her vulnerable to a visiting painter, an art monster.

与此同时，桑尼离开印度到纽约工作，但距离无法保护他免受可怕母亲的侵扰。

Meanwhile, Sunny has left India to work in New York, but distance can't shield him from his fearsome mother.

德赛这部近700页的小说沉思了流亡与 displacement 的主题，并讲述了一个错综复杂的爱情故事，其中的巧合之多足以让狄更斯脸红。

Desai's near 700 page novel ruminates on exile and displacement and tells a tangled love story with enough coincidences to make Dickens blush.

我最后推荐的虚构类作品更接近简·奥斯汀式的精微细腻风格。

My last fiction pick is more in the Jane Austen miniaturist mode.

《心之恋人》是莉莉·金2020年小说《作家与恋人》的姊妹篇。

Heart the Lover is a companion novel to Lily King's 2020 novel, Writers and Lovers.

但这部续作的结构如此巧妙，你无需读过前作也能欣赏。

But the structure of this follow-up is so ingenious that you don't have to have read the earlier book.

这是个情感充沛的故事，讲述一位怀揣文学抱负的年轻女性如何在犯错中成长、找回自我，并意识到这一路上可能失去的东西。

This is an emotionally charged story about a young woman with literary ambitions, screwing up, wising up, finding herself, and realizing what she may have lost in the process.

接下来谈谈非虚构作品。

On to nonfiction.

正如评论家温德姆·刘易斯所言，格特鲁德·斯泰因的文字有时就像冷掉的黑色板油布丁，通篇都是这般厚重、粘腻、晦涩的质感。

Gertrude Stein's writing, as the critic Wyndham Lewis put it, sometimes has the consistency of a cold black suet pudding, the same heavy, sticky, opaque mass all through.

然而尽管她令人抓狂，我们许多人都能感受到，在斯泰因的文学天赋中，确实存在着某种真实的核心。

And yet, maddening as she can be, many of us sense that when it comes to Stein's literary genius, there really was a there there.

弗朗西丝卡·韦德这本名为《身后世》的生动另类传记并未止步于斯泰因1946年的离世，还讲述了那些痴迷的追随者如何帮助她获得死后殊荣的故事。

Francesca Wade's lively unconventional biography called An Afterlife doesn't end at Stein's death in 1946, but also tells the story of the obsessive admirers who help Stein achieve serious posthumous recognition.

阿兰达蒂·罗伊的《圣母玛利亚来到我身边》是我读过的最优美动人的母女关系回忆录之一。

Mother Mary Comes to Me by Arundhati Roy is one of the most vivid and exquisitely written memoirs of a mother daughter relationship I've ever read.

罗伊的单亲母亲是位备受爱戴的教师，她在印度创办了一所学校。

Roy's single mother was a beloved teacher who founded a school in India.

然而罗伊和她的兄弟却承受着母亲阴晴不定的怒火。

Roy and her brother, however, endured their erratic mother's rage.

但罗伊这样描述她的母亲：'我曾真心相信她会比我长寿'。

And yet, Roy writes of her mother, I truly believed she would outlive me.

当她没能做到时，我整个人都崩溃了，心碎欲绝。

When she didn't, I was wrecked, heart smashed.

就像格特鲁德·斯泰因和罗伊的母亲一样，帕蒂·史密斯也难以被简单定义。

Like Gertrude Stein and Roy's mother, Patti Smith defies easy characterization.

她的最新回忆录《天使之粮》是对2010年经典之作《只是孩子》的延伸。

Her latest memoir, Bread of Angels, expands upon just kids, her 2010 memoir that's since become a classic.

史密斯在此书中深入探讨了更私密的主题，包括她的身世之谜、对自身性取向的认知，以及与已故音乐家弗雷德·'音速'·史密斯十四年的婚姻。

Smith delves into more intimate material here, like the secret of her paternity, her sense of her own sexuality, and her fourteen year marriage to the late musician Fred Sonic Smith.

如果说帕蒂·史密斯的书名提及天使，那么斯蒂芬·格林布拉特的《黑暗文艺复兴》则引用了剧作家克里斯托弗·马洛这个略带恶魔色彩的人物。

If Patti Smith's title references angels, Stephen Greenblatt's Dark Renaissance invokes the somewhat devilish figure of playwright Christopher Marlowe.

我想不出还有谁能像格林布拉特这样，以生动的语言和渊博的学识让英国文艺复兴的世界重现生机。

I can think of nobody who brings the world of the English Renaissance to life with the verb and erudition of Greenblatt.

在本书中，他探究了马洛原创性的奥秘以及他在29岁遇害的谜团。

Here, he explores the mysteries of Marlow's originality and his murder at age 29.

2017年，历史学家朱迪丝·盖斯伯格和她的研究生团队创建了一个名为《最后所见：奴隶制后的寻亲》》的网站。

In 2017, historian Judith Geisberg and her team of grad student researchers launched a website called Last Seen, Finding Family After Slavery.

该网站现已收录了超过4500条由曾被奴役者刊登在报纸上的寻亲启事。

It now contains over 4,500 ads placed in newspapers by once enslaved people hoping to find loved ones.

盖斯伯格引人入胜的同名著作《最后所见》深度解读了其中10则启事，让读者更深刻地体会到奴隶制的真实经历及其后续影响。

Geisberg's arresting book, also called Last Seen, closely reads 10 of those ads, giving readers a deeper sense of the lived experience of slavery and its aftermath.

我最后推荐的年度好书是索菲·埃尔姆赫斯特的《海上婚姻》，这本书既是极限冒险故事，也是对婚姻的沉思录。

My final best book pick is A Marriage at Sea by Sophie Elmhurst, which is part extreme adventure tale, part meditation on marriage.

1972年，莫里斯和玛丽莲·贝利夫妇的木质帆船被鲸鱼撞破后，在太平洋上漂流了四个月。

In 1972, Morris and Marilyn Bailey spent four months adrift in the middle of the Pacific after a whale knocked a hole in their wooden sloop.

他们通过专注于小事来保持心智健全，比如玛丽莲发明的纸牌游戏。

They held themselves together mentally by focusing on small things, like the card games that Marilyn devised.

这或许对我们所有人来说都是不错的建议，在即将面临的挑战时期。

Not bad advice, perhaps, for all of us in challenging times ahead.

祝大家节日快乐。

Happy holidays, everyone.

莫琳·科里根是乔治城大学的文学教授。

Maureen Corrigan is a professor of literature at Georgetown University.

《周末新鲜空气》由特蕾莎·马登制作。

Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden.

《新鲜空气》的执行制片人是丹尼·米勒。

Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller.

我们的执行制作人是山姆·布里格。

Our managing producer is Sam Brigger.

我们的技术总监兼工程师是奥黛丽·本瑟姆。

Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham.

我是戴夫·戴维斯，代表特里·格罗斯和坦尼娅·莫斯利向大家问好。

For Terry Gross and Tanya Moseley, I'm Dave Davies.

这

This

这条信息来自Wise，一款全球资金管理应用。

message comes from Wise, the app for using money around the globe.

使用Wise管理资金，您将始终获得中间市场汇率，且无任何隐藏费用。

When you manage your money with Wise, you'll always get the mid market exchange rate with no hidden fees.

加入数百万用户行列，访问wise.com。

Join millions of customers and visit wise.com.

条款与条件适用。

Ts and cs apply.

2025年最佳歌曲和专辑有哪些？

What are the best songs and albums for 2025?

整个本月，《All Songs Considered》节目将带您回顾那些定义这一年的标志性音乐和里程碑时刻。

All this month on All Songs Considered, we're looking back at the most memorable music and milestone moments that tell the story of this past year.

想了解我们对2025年音乐趋势的解读，请在任意播客平台搜索《All Songs Considered》。

To hear our take on what noises 2025 made, search for All Songs Considered wherever you get podcasts.

仅限NPR。

Only from NPR.

每周五在《All Songs Considered》邂逅新音乐。

Fall in love with new music every Friday at All Songs Considered.

这是NPR的音乐推荐播客。

That's NPR's music recommendation podcast.

周五我们会用整期节目分享本周最棒的新歌。

Fridays are where we spend our whole show sharing all the greatest new releases of the week.

让寻找新音乐重新成为你生活的一部分。

Make the hunt for new music a part of your life again.

收听《All Songs Considered》的新音乐星期五特辑，各大播客平台均可订阅。

Tap into new music Friday from All Songs Considered, available wherever you get your podcasts.