Netflix纪录片《青春期》内幕

本消息来自《48小时》。想要更多《48小时》内容？每周四天，《48小时》播客将电视上最受欢迎的真实犯罪系列节目直接送到您的耳边。收听原创报道和独家见解。在您获取播客的任何平台关注并收听。

This message comes from forty eight hours. Want more forty eight hours? Four days a week, the forty eight hours podcast is bringing one of TV's most popular true crime series straight to your ears. Listen for original reporting and exclusive insights. Follow and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

这里是《新鲜空气》。我是电视评论家大卫·比安·库利。艾美奖将于本周日颁发，获得最多提名的节目之一是Netflix英剧《少年时代》。它获得了13项艾美奖提名，包括今天我们的嘉宾斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆获得的三项提名：一项是共同创作《少年时代》，另一项是与杰克·索恩共同编剧，第三项是他在限定剧/诗选剧或电视电影类杰出男主角中令人难忘的表演提名。

This is Fresh Air. I'm TV critic David Bean Cooley. The Emmy Awards are being handed out this Sunday, and one of the shows with the most nominations is the Netflix British drama called adolescence. It's up for 13 Emmys, including three for Stephen Graham, who's our guest today. One is for cocreating adolescence, another is for cowriting it with Jack Thorne, and a third is for his unforgettable performance nominated as outstanding lead actor in a limited or anthology series or movie.

他饰演一名13岁男孩的父亲，男孩在清晨的突袭中被警方带走，并被指控谋杀一名同学。儿子杰米在警察局接受处理和检查，而他的父亲在一旁观看、同情并提出反对。

He plays the father of a 13 year old boy who's taken by police in an early morning raid and charged with the murder of a classmate. The son, Jamie, is being processed and examined at the police station while his father watches and sympathizes and objects.

米勒先生，现在我们更改了他的名字。所有一切。米勒先生，我理解，但这是严重罪行。好的。他左臂上有抓痕。

Mister Miller Now we changed his name. Everything. Mister Miller, I understand, but this is a serious offense. K. I've got scratch marks on his left arm.

我需要确保没有其他我们需要知道的割伤或瘀伤。

I need to make sure that there's no other cuts or bruises that we need to be aware of.

我觉得这也有点严重，你不觉得吗？我的意思是，如果你13岁时有两个成年男子盯着你的私处看，你会作何感受？我又没有被指控犯罪。就是这样。这孩子没有被定罪。

I think this is a bit serious as well, don't you? I mean, how would you have felt if you were 13 and your two grown men look at your bits? I wasn't accused of a crime. That's it. The hump ain't accused.

他还没有被认定有罪。他只是被指控。你就不能做点什么吗？我很抱歉。

He hasn't been found guilty. He's been accused. Can you not do anything about this? I'm sorry.

他们有权进行脱衣检查。

They're entitled to underpace.

米勒先生，我保证我会非常小心。

Mister Miller, I promise I will be very careful.

我根本不认识你，伙计。米勒先生，我们——我的意思是——我们

I don't know you from Adam, mate. Mister Miller, we I wanna mean We

确实需要

really do need to

配合这个。他他18岁了。密码，我们可以

cooperate with this. He's He's 18. Passwords, we can

告诉他

tell him

从这个过期开始。程序，米勒先生。

from when this is expired. Procedure, mister Miller.

米勒先生，这对詹姆斯来说是好事。没问题的。

Mister Miller, this is good for James' It's fine.

你还好吗？我不介意。

You okay? I don't mind.

斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆十月份有两个新项目即将上映。一部是Netflix电影《好孩子》，他在片中饰演一个绑架罪犯并试图强行改造他的人。另一部是《把我从无处拯救》，由《熊家餐馆》的杰瑞米·艾伦·怀特饰演布鲁斯·斯普林斯汀。格雷厄姆饰演斯普林斯汀的父亲道格拉斯·达奇·斯普林斯汀。这些角色将为他本已令人印象深刻且多样化的履历再添一笔。

Stephen Graham has two new projects coming up in October. One is the Netflix movie Good Boy, where he plays a man who kidnaps a criminal and tries to forcibly rehabilitate him. The other is deliver me from nowhere, which stars Jeremy Allen White from the bear as Bruce Springsteen. Graham plays Springsteen's father, Douglas Dutch Springsteen. Those roles will be added to Graham's already impressive and varied resume.

他曾在Hulu的《千击》中饰演维多利亚时代英格兰的赤拳拳击手，在Netflix的《浴血黑帮》中饰演工会组织者，在HBO的《大西洋帝国》中饰演阿尔·卡彭。今年，艾美奖的聚光灯聚焦在他身上，作为四集剧《青春期》的联合创作人、联合编剧和主演，该剧已成为Netflix收视率最高的节目之一，并且理由充分。《青春期》无疑是2025年最好的电视节目，剧本精湛，表演优美。除了格雷厄姆，还有四位《青春期》的演员也获得了艾美奖提名。

He's played a bare knuckles Victorian England boxer in Hulu's a thousand blows, a union organizer in Netflix's Peaky Blinders, and Al Capone in HBO's Boardwalk Empire. And this year, the Emmy spotlight has trained on him as the cocreator, cowriter, and star of adolescence, the four part drama that has become one of Netflix's most watched shows, and with good reason. Adolescence is by far the best TV program of 2025. It's superbly written and beautifully acted. In addition to Graham, four other actors in adolescence are up for Emmys.

其中一位是欧文·库珀，他饰演格雷厄姆的儿子杰米。作为限定剧/诗选剧或电视电影类最佳男配角提名者，他是该类别有史以来最年轻的竞争者，年仅15岁，而《青春期》是他的首个荧幕角色。表演和剧本的张力是《青春期》如此引人入胜的部分原因。此外，它所探讨的主题复杂且令人不安。

One of them is Owen Cooper who plays Graham's son, Jamie. And as outstanding supporting actor in a limited or anthology series or movie, he's the youngest ever to compete in that category. He's 15 years old, and adolescence was his first on screen role. The intensity of the acting and writing is part of what makes adolescence so riveting. Also, the themes it tackles are complicated and troubling.

是什么导致一些年轻人做出攻击和暴力行为？社交媒体在其中扮演了什么角色？学校和家长究竟该负多少责任，如果有的话？最后，让《青春期》如此扣人心弦的另一点是，它的四集每一集都是用一镜到底的方式拍摄的，通过写作、舞台调度和表演，让《青春期》的每一小时都像舞台剧一样实时呈现。对斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆来说，作为联合创作人、编剧，尤其是演员，这是一项大胆而艰巨的任务。

What leads some young people to acts of aggression and violence? What part does social media play? And how responsible or culpable, if at all, are the schools and the parents? And finally, the other thing that makes adolescence so riveting is that each of the four episodes was filmed in a single unbroken take, written, staged, and acted so that every hour of adolescence was captured in real time like a stage play. It was a daring, daunting task for Stephen Graham to undertake as cocreator, as writer, and especially as an actor.

《新鲜空气》节目制作人萨姆·布里格去年三月就此事及其他话题与斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆进行了对话。他们从《青春期》第一集的另一个场景开始谈起。斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆饰演刚被捕的杰米的父亲，他刚刚见到了由马克·斯坦利饰演的、法院为杰米指定的律师。杰米要求父亲在自己被移交司法系统时在场，但父亲向律师坦言，他不确定自己能否胜任。

Fresh Air producer Sam Brigger spoke with Stephen Graham about that and more last March. They began with another scene from the first episode of adolescence. Stephen Graham, as the father of the recently arrested Jamie, has just met his son's court appointed lawyer, played by Mark Stanley. Jamie has asked that his dad be present as Jamie is processed into the system, but the dad confides to the lawyer that he's not sure he's up to the job.

打扰一下。对吧？是啊。我...我完全不知道我在这里该做什么。我不知道该说什么。

Excuse me. Right? Yeah. I I haven't got a clue what I'm doing here. I don't know what to say.

只要

Just

不要替他回答。好吗？就...做你自己就好。他们知道你是他父亲。我们知道你是他父亲。

don't answer for him. Alright? Just just be yourself. They know you're his dad. We know you're his dad.

感到不知所措是正常的。感到震惊是正常的，表现出人性的一面也是正常的。

It's it's okay to process. It's okay to be shocked, and it's it's okay to be human.

是啊。我是说，这...这太不正常了。你明白我的意思吗？不。我以前甚至从没进过

Yeah. I mean, this this isn't normal. Do know what I mean? No. Never even been in a

警察局。你会没事的。

police station before. You'll be fine.

我只是...我只是不想搞砸了。我是说，兰斯，你懂我的意思吧？你会没事的。

I just I just don't wanna get it wrong. I mean, Lance, you know what I mean? You'll be fine.

那是《青春期》中的一个场景，由我的嘉宾斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆主演。斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆，欢迎来到《新鲜空气》。

That's a scene from adolescence starring my guest, Stephen Graham. Stephen Graham, welcome to Fresh Air.

谢谢。多么精彩的介绍。非常感谢。

Thank you. What a wonderful introduction. Thank you very much.

所以《青春期》这部剧其实是你的创意。你带着这个想法找到了联合创作者杰克·索恩。你当时想通过荧幕探讨什么样的思考？

So the show Adolescence was actually your idea. You came to your cocreator Jack Thorne with the idea. What was it that you were thinking about that you wanted to explore on the screen?

说实话山姆，这是很久以前的事了。我在报纸上读到一篇文章，讲的是一个年轻男孩刺死了一个年轻女孩的故事。这让我感到浑身发冷，我被读到的东西震惊了。大约三四个月后，电视新闻又报道了一个故事，我看了之后发现——又是一个年轻男孩刺死年轻女孩的事件。而这起事件发生在国家另一端，与我之前读到的那起事件相距甚远。

It happened a while ago, to be honest with you, Sam. I read an article in the in the newspaper, which it was about a young boy who had stabbed a young girl to death. And it just made me feel quite cold, and I was stunned by what I was reading. And then about three or four months later, there was a story on the news, on television, and I was watching it and it was again, it was about a young boy who had stabbed a young girl to death. And this incident is the opposite end to the country to the first incident that I'd read about.

说实话，那一刻真的刺痛了我的心。但当时我下意识地评判了那些父母，立刻对自己说：这肯定是父母的责任。然后我阻止了自己，尝试保持觉察并质疑：如果不是呢？也许我不该这么武断。万一不是呢？

And at that point, if I'm completely honest, it really hurt my heart. But in that moment, I I judged the parents, and I instantly said to myself, you know, it's it's gotta be down to the parents. And then I stopped myself and tried to be mindful and and questioned the fact that what if it's not? Maybe I shouldn't be so judgmental. What if it's not?

基于这个前提，我开始思考：为什么会发生这种事？为什么我们会陷入这种境地？这些男孩——他们确实是男孩而非成人，大脑尚未发育完全，生理也未成熟。众所周知青春期是个非常艰难的阶段，你会在身体、心理甚至更宏观的精神层面经历诸多变化。但我的核心问题是：为什么？

And from that basis, from that premise, I just thought, well, why is this happening? Why are we in this situation where, you know, young boys, and they are young boys, they're not men, their brains haven't been fully formed yet, their physiology is not complete as yet, adolescence is a very difficult age as we all know, do you know what I mean? You go through a a lot of different things physically, mentally, and and even spiritually in in in the in the greater scheme of things. You know what I mean? But my main question was why?

为什么会发生这样的事？

Why is this happening?

我猜你们在探讨原因的同时，并没有让剧集变得说教。你们更像是让

And I guess that one of the things is that you're exploring why, but you're not it's not a didactic show. You sort of let

当然。

Of course.

情绪和问题慢慢酝酿，但不去解决它们。

The feelings and the issues sort of stew there, but you're not resolving them.

不，完全不会。我认为这恰恰是剧集的核心主题之一——这些问题无法被解决，我们也没有答案。有句谚语说得好：养育一个孩子需要整个村庄。这句话的深意在于，或许我们所有人都负有责任：父母的养育方式、学校的教育体系、政府的立法举措、我们生活的社区环境...

No. Not at all. And and, you know, ultimately, I think I think that's one of the main themes of the show is that they can't be resolved, and and we don't have the answers. There's a wonderful saying which is it takes a village to raise a child. And within that kind of complexity of what that says, to me, within what we are doing, it's kind of like maybe we're all accountable and that comes down to, you know, the parenting, maybe how we parent our children, the school system, how the education system guides and tries to educate our children, the government, you know, how they can bring in legislation, the community and the environment of where we live.

除此之外，还有我们这代人及其父母从未需要面对的——互联网。当孩子关上房门，当年你我那个年代，我们无法接触整个世界，不会轻易被三十多岁成年人的思维模式深刻影响。这正是我们真正想要探讨的。或许在某种程度上，我们都要为当今社会发生的这一切负责。

And then on top of that now, which was something that me and you never had to suffer from and our parents never had to think about, but there is now this big thing called the Internet. When a child closes the door, back in the day when it was me and you, we didn't have access to the rest of the world, and we couldn't be influenced dramatically by other people in their thirties and their thought processes. So that was what we really wanted to look at. You know what I mean? Maybe we're all accountable in some way for what is happening today in in our society.

所以你的角色埃迪是一位成功的商人。他经营着一家管道业务。他在社会上提升了自己，努力成为一个好丈夫和好父亲。你说你在某种程度上是基于你的叔叔们和你朋友们的父亲来塑造他的。

So your character, Eddie, is a successful businessman. He has a a plumbing business. He's lifted himself up in the world. He's trying to be a good husband and a good father. And you say that you based him to some degree on your uncles and your friends' fathers.

他们身上有什么特质

What was it about them

被你借鉴了？对我来说，我扮演的角色埃迪，我想让他更接近那种原型化的男人。就像我成长过程中接触的那些男人，比如我的叔叔们，还有我说过的，我朋友们的父亲之类的人，他们都是美好、了不起的男人，勤劳的男人，他们可能早上六点、七点就去工作，直到晚上六点、七点甚至八点才能回家。你明白我的意思吗？所以他们居住的那种区域，是在州里的一栋很漂亮的房子。

that you took? For me, Eddie, the character that I played, I wanted to make him more like that kind of archetypal man in a way. The the kind of men that I was brought up with, like my uncles and, like I've said, you know, my friends' fathers and stuff like that, who are beautiful, wonderful men, hardworking men who go to work, say, maybe 06:00, 07:00 in the morning and don't manage to get back home till gone six, seven, eight at night. You know what I mean? So the kind of area that they live in is is it's a really nice house in the state.

你明白我的意思吗？那在很多方面是一个富裕的区域。它不是，它不是，远非上流社会，你知道，那是一个在真正好区域的工薪阶层家庭。所以我想专注于他们来自一个良好的家庭，并且家里充满了爱。父母 primarily 在为孩子做最好的事情，他的妹妹是一个A-level学生。

You know what I mean? It's it's it's it's a well-to-do area in many ways. It's not it's not it's far from upper class, and it's, you know, it's it's a working class household in a really nice area. So I wanted to to concentrate on the fact that they come from a good home, and there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of love in that home. The the mother and father primarily are doing the best for their children, and his sister is a is an a level student.

你知道，她是一个非常努力、认真的学生，因为通过施害者家庭的视角来讲述故事对我们来说是不寻常的。通常，如你所想，会是从受害者的角度，这也是理所当然的。你明白我的意思吗？在传统戏剧中，我们会看到那样。但是，此外，我想通过这个过程尝试做的是消除指责的可能性，并说，哦，这就是原因。

You know, she's she's a really hardworking, conscientious student because it's unconventional for us to follow the story through the eyes of the family who are the from the perpetrator. Normally, as you can imagine, it would be the victim side of it, and rightly so. Do know what I mean? In that conventional drama, that's what we would see. But, also, what I wanted to try and do with this process was eliminate the possibilities of pointing the finger and saying, well, this is why.

所以我不想让它像是爸爸抬手打了他的儿子。通常，我们会能够朝那个方向指责，并说这就是他为什么这样做。但我们想消除那种情况，从一个干净的起点开始。

So I didn't want it to be like dad raised his hand and hit his boy. So normally, we would be we could be able to point the finger in that direction and say this is why he did it. But we wanted to eliminate that and start with a clean slate.

所以埃迪是一个有趣的角色，因为他可以非常情绪化，但他又不太真正接触自己的情绪。就像，情绪有点在他身上肆意发挥。

So Eddie is an interesting character because he can be very emotional, but he's also not really in touch with his emotions. Like, they kind of have their way with him.

是的。是的。而且埃迪内心有很多痛苦，你知道，在他意识到他儿子做了什么之后。因为此外，我想就埃迪这个角色尝试实现和完成的是，就像我说的，那种在很多方面老派、更阴暗的男人，他来自一个不善于肢体接触的男性血脉。那某种程度上来自于我和我儿子以及女儿的过程，你知道，我很幸运有两个漂亮的孩子。

Yeah. Yeah. And that that's there's a lot of pain inside Eddie, you know, when after he realizes what his son has done. Because what it is as well was what I wanted to try and try and achieve and try and accomplish with the respects to Eddie is, like I said, that kind of old fashioned, darker type of man in many ways who, you know, comes from a lineage of men who are not very tactile. And that kinda comes from the process of with my son and with my daughter, know, I'm very blessed to have two beautiful children.

我拥抱他们，搂抱他们，我每天都告诉他们我爱他们。每一天，因为我非常爱我的孩子。真的。他们，你知道，他们是我生命中参与过的最好的事情之一。他们真的是。

And I and I and I hug them and and cuddle them, and I tell them I love them every single day. Every single day because I adore my kids. I really do. They're, you know, they're one of the best things the the best thing in my life I've ever been a part of. They really are.

你明白我的意思吗？看。是的。史蒂文很感性，我把心挂在袖子上。我几乎，你知道，看。

Do know what I mean? Look. Yeah. Steven's very soppy, and I wear my heart on my sleeve. I'm almost you know, look.

光是想到格蕾丝和阿尔菲就让我开始想哭了，我真是有点可笑。他们总笑话我，因为我很容易掉眼泪，还是个成年人。但我想做的是展现与此完全相反的一面。有一天早上，阿尔菲和他的几个朋友在家里，我拥抱了阿尔菲一下，因为他们要出去玩一天。我抱了抱他，在他脸颊上亲了一下，然后说，要乖哦，玩得开心。

Even just thinking of Grace and Alfie is making me start to tear it up, and I'm just ridiculous. They laugh at me all the time because I'm very teary and adults. But what I wanted to do is to play the polar opposites of that. And one morning when Alfie and some of his mates were in his house, I was giving Alfie a cuddle because they were going out for the day, I gave him a cuddle and I gave him a kiss on the cheek, and and I said, be good. Have a good day.

你懂我的意思吗？然后他的朋友开始有点哭了。我就问，你没事吧？阿尔菲插话说，他爸爸从不拥抱他，他爸爸从没说过爱他。这让我心都碎了一点。

Do know what I mean? And his friend started to to cry a little bit. And I was like, are you okay? And Alfie jumped in and said, his dad never hugs him, his dad's never told him that he loves him. And it just broke my heart a little bit.

你明白吗？我见过他和他父亲在一起，你能看出他父亲对他的爱。但对我来说，这完全无法理解。我觉得不可能他父亲从未做过那样的事。因为对我来说，这是如此自然的事情，我甚至都不会去想它。

Do you know what I mean? And I've seen him with his father, and and you can see the love his father has for him. And and for me, it was completely alien. I thought there was no way that that that his father would have never done something like that. Because to me, was just such a natural thing that I don't even think about it.

我觉得这部剧会一直留在我心里，永远或者很长时间，而且真的很难看下去。它制作得非常精良，非常引人入胜，但你会经历很多非常强烈的情感。比如，你在某个时刻彻底崩溃了。作为一名演员，经历这些有多难？

The show is gonna stay with me, I think, forever or a very long time, and and it's it's really hard to watch. It's really well made. It's really compelling, but you go through a lot of very intense emotions. Like, you have a complete breakdown at one point. As an actor, how hard is that to go through?

完成那种表演后，你是否需要面对一些后续影响？

Is there an aftermath that you have to reckon with after doing that kind of performance?

对很多人来说，是的。我理解，我也明白。在某种程度上，我想也许我也有。我现在也能很快地投入和抽离，并迅速减压，这是我多年来自己学会的一种技巧。

For a lot of people, it is. Yeah. And I understand it, and I get it. And and to some extent, I I think maybe there is for me. I'm also able to jump in and jump out and decompress quite quickly now, which is a kind of technique I've learned myself over Do

有这方面的工具吗？

have tools for that?

是的。那些工具嘛，最大的工具就是我的妻子汉娜，在很多层面上都是。你知道，如果我打电话给她说，亲爱的，今天工作真的很艰难。你知道，我得哭啊什么的。她会说，哦，真的吗？

Yeah. And those tools are well, the biggest tool for that is my wife, Hannah, on many levels. You know, if I phone her and say, it's been a really tough day at work today, love. You know, I had to cry and stuff. She'd be like, oh, really?

我就说，是啊，是啊。然后我说，哦，我听起来是不是像个... 她会说，是的。她会接着说，好吧，我告诉你，狗拉肚子了。

And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I go, oh, my do I sound like a And she'd be like, yes. She'll go, well, I'll tell you what, the dog had diarrhea.

当然是啊。但她理解我，她也这么做。而且，你知道，如果说有谁能在片场深入情绪，那就是汉娜了。她太了不起了，伙计。

Of course. Yeah. But she understands it, and she does it. And, you know, if there's if there's anyone that can dive into emotions when they're on set, it's Hannah. She's unbelievable, laddie.

她太棒了。所以当我试着这么做时，Sam，她就会说，哦，今天早上狗把地毯上拉得到处都是。我就说，哦，然后她又说，我还得去购物，结果在高速公路上车没油了。我就只能，哦，哦，哦，好吧。你就哭吧

She's great. So when I try and do it, Sam, she just goes, oh, well, the dog had diarrhea all over the carpet this morning. I'm like, oh, and she went, and I had to go shopping, and the car ran out of petrol while I was on the motorway. And I'm like, oh, oh, oh, okay. Just cry

给我哭成河吧，Steven。

me a river, Steven.

是的。没错。她差不多就是这样。但话说回来，你知道，而且我明白。听着。

Yeah. Exactly. That's kind of where she goes. But again, you know, and and I got and I know. Look.

对我来说，家庭是最重要的。就是他们。他们是我的支柱。他们造就了今天的我。明白我的意思吗？

For me, family is the most important thing to me. It's it's it's them. They're my rock. They they they make me the man who I am. Do know what I mean?

我之所以在这里，也主要是因为他们。和你分享这个，这些都是行业诀窍。最后那场戏，那一集的最后一条拍摄。我想大概是第12条左右，但那是最后一条了。

I am here because of them mainly as well. And just to share this with you, and these are the tricks of the trade. On that last scene that on that episode, it was the very last take. I think it was, like, take 12 or something like that, but it was the very final take.

实际上是16条。

16, actually.

哦，是第16条？哇。拍了好多条啊。好吧。天哪。

Oh, was it take 16? Wow. That's a lot of takes. Okay. God.

是的。我们中途停了几次。一次是他扛着摄像机想退进门里时门没开，结果直接撞到了窗户上。还有几次是车启动不了，就在我们准备好要开拍的时候。所以，确实有些状况。

Yeah. We had to stop a couple of times. One, the door wasn't open when he was trying to back into the door with the camera, and so he just hit the window. There was a couple of times the car wouldn't start as we got it and as we set off. So So there was yeah.

哦，然后我们还被卡在红绿灯那儿了。没错。所以是第16条，情况是这样的，那天又是最后一天，是整个拍摄的最后一天。所以，我的两个孩子，Grace，我女儿，还有Alfie都在那儿，Hannah那天也在。最后那条，当我走进卧室时，Sam，我完全不知道他们安排了那些。

Oh, then we got stuck at the traffic lights. That's right. So take 16, and what happened was, again, it was the last day, and it was the very last day of filming. So, again, my kids both, Grace, my my daughter and Alfie were there, and Hannah was there for that day. And for that last take, when I go into the bedroom, I had no idea, Sam, that they'd done it.

说实话，我真不知道。而且那个卧室我之前显然已经进去过15次了。所以我对要做什么、要经历什么有个大致的想法。Philip在排练时想出了一个很棒的主意，他说，我就在床上放个泰迪熊吧。我当时还想，为什么？

Honestly, I didn't. And I'd I'd gone into that bedroom, obviously, 15 times. And so I had a kind of idea of what I was going to do and what I was going through. And Philip come up with a beautiful idea when we were in rehearsals, and he said, I'm just gonna put a teddy bear on the bed. And I was like, why?

他就说，顺其自然吧。所以他对那个泰迪熊产生的所有母性本能其实都是凭空而来的。你明白我的意思吗？在很多方面，这是对他儿子的替代。但不管怎样，当我走进房间时，看到汉娜和孩子们所做的——这就是你看到的那个镜头，所以这也是它的来源。

He was like, just see what happens. So all the maternal instincts he felt for that teddy bear kind of just come from nowhere. Do you know what I mean? In many ways because it's a replacement for his son. But anyway, when I came into the room, what Hannah and the kids had done, and this is the take that you see, so this is where it comes from as well.

汉娜和他们所有人——我已经完全沉浸在那一刻了。别误会，我完全投入其中。但我的孩子们和汉娜所做的是，他们在墙上贴满了他们和我的照片，还写着：‘我们为你感到骄傲，爸爸。我们非常爱你。’

What Hannah and they all I'm already in the moment. Don't get me wrong. I'm completely in the moment. But what my kids and Hannah had done, they put photographs on the on the wall of of them and me, and they just put, we're so proud of you, dad. We love you so much.

然后显然，你可以想象——我告诉过你我是个非常感性的人，情绪全写在脸上。

And and obviously then you can imagine I've told you I'm a very soppy person. Wear my heart on my sleeve.

光是听着我也要哭了。

That's tearing me up too. Just listening.

是的，然后我就崩溃了。你懂吗？就像所有情绪一下子涌了出来。拍完那个特定场景后，他们紧紧抱住我，好一会儿都没松开。

Yeah. And I just went. Do you know what I mean? It was like it just all came out. And then when I'd finished that particular scene, yeah, they grabbed hold of me and, yeah, they didn't let go of me for a while.

实际上，之后我还哭了挺长一段时间。但拍完那个场景后，整个片场的人都在哭。

And I and I did cry for a quite a bit of time after that, actually. But we all cried on that set after that particular scene when we'd finished it.

那么谈谈技术层面的问题，就像我说的，每集都是一镜到底，没有剪辑。这和你几年前拍的电影《沸点》类似，那部电影发生在餐厅里，很棒的电影，但只有一个场景。而这里，第一集你从家里开始，然后开车去车站，镜头一直跟着你，还得让所有其他演员也从家里赶到车站。

So just talking about the sort of technical issue, as I said, like, each of these episodes is one take. There's no editing. This is similar to a movie that you did a few years back called Boiling Point, which takes place in a restaurant. It's a great film, but it's one location. But here, like, in this first episode, you start in the family home, and then you drive to the station, the camera's following you, and then you have to get all the other actors from the house to the station.

说说你们必须解决的一些技术难题吧。

Like, talk about some of the technical things that you had to figure out.

美妙之处在于我们有三周时间拍摄每集。但在这期间，第一周我们会排练剧本，就像准备演话剧一样仔细过每一句台词。

The the beauty of this is where we have three weeks to shoot each episode. But what we do within that context is for the first week, we rehearse the script, and we we go through the script like we're about to do a play.

因为它们确实有点像小话剧。我是说

Because they are kind of like little plays. I mean

是的。是的。当然。而这正是它的美妙之处，你知道，我们排练剧本，通读剧本，这很棒因为当时有我在场，还有编剧杰克。所以我们处于一个绝佳的位置，可以调整语言，根据我们的环境调整内容，但同样地，你知道，我和杰克都不是14岁的男孩。

Yeah. Yeah. Of course. And and that's the beauty of it, you know, but we rehearse the script and we go through the script, and it was great because we had myself there, and we had Jack the writer. So it was a beautiful position that we were in where we could tweak the language, we could adjust what was happening to our environment, and in the same respect, you know, me and Jack are not 14 year old boys.

但我们可以问欧文，他在这些特定情况下会说什么。

But we could ask Owen what would he say in these particular situations.

欧文·库珀，他扮演你的儿子杰米。

Owen Cooper, who plays your son, Jamie.

是的。没错。欧文·库珀，他非常出色。但在那种背景下，我们可以使用真实地道的语言。

Yes. Yeah. That's right. Owen Cooper, who's who's phenomenal. But within that context, we could get to use the real authentic language.

这真是一份礼物，因为你能将两种技艺结合起来。所以你既有那种自发性和现场感以及戏剧的兴奋感，又具备电影电视表演的技术能力、细腻度和真实感。

It's such a gift because you you're able to marry both disciplines. So you have that spontaneity and the live kind of feeling and exhilaration of theater, but you have the technical ability and the the kind of nuance and the and the realism of film and television acting.

没错。

Right.

但同时也因为一镜到底的技术，你知道，比如在第二集，你能在整个学校穿梭。对吧。

But then also because of the technique of it being a one shot, you know, you're able, like in episode two, to to travel all around the school. Right.

那是一个真实的地点，有数百名孩子走来走去。

Which was an actual location with hundreds of kids walking around.

是的。没错。确实如此。而且实际上，你知道，我认为大约有150名我们的临时演员，也就是辅助演员，那是他们的学校。

Yes. Yeah. It really was. And it was actually, you know, for I think about a 150 of our extras, of the supporting artists, it was their school.

是啊。

Yeah.

那真是太棒了，因为他们熟悉这个地方，真的感觉像在家一样。所以在第一周，我们打磨剧本。第二周，全体工作人员进场，我们协商并开始规划拍摄路线——要拍什么、去哪里拍、怎么拍。这时候所有人员就都到位了。

So that was great because they, you know, they know the place and and they really felt at home. So in that first week, we work on a script. And in the second week, we work with all of the crew. All of the crew come on set, and we we negotiate, and we begin to walk through our pathway of what we're gonna do and where we're gonna go and how we're gonna get there. And that's when you have everybody about.

这样音响部门就可以在相应位置布置麦克风。我们会反反复复、极其细致地演练走位。第三周才正式开拍，每天拍两条。所以理想情况下，我们至少会有10条可用的拍摄。

So, you know, you can then the sound department, they can plant mics here and there. So we really, really meticulously go over and over and over and over our movements. And the third week is when we begin to shoot. So we do two takes a day. So sometimes, you know, hopefully, at the minimum, we will have 10 takes.

整整十条完整拍摄。

Ten ten complete takes.

没错。我们拍五天，每天两条。但就像第一集，你们看到的是第二条；第二集用的则是第十四条。

Yeah. So we shop for five days, and you do two takes a day. But as is with episode one, the take you see is take two. With episode two, the take we used was take 14.

拍完所有条数后，你们会大致确定最终要采用哪条吗？还是

Would you know after doing all your takes that you were kind of leaning towards one that you would eventually use? Or

我个人是知道的。拍第一条时我就知道第二条最好。嗯，我就是知道。

Well, I did, personally. I did on I did on the first one. I knew it was the second take. Mhmm. I just knew it was.

我当时还说：咱们能收工了吗？菲尔却说：不行。听着，我们这周可是拿钱干活的。我对菲尔说：不可能拍出比那条更好的了。

And I I was kind of like, can we go home now? And Phil and Phil was like, no. Look. We're being paid to be here for the rest of the week. And I I said to Phil, not gonna get better than that.

他说：说不定呢。我说：信我，那条就是最佳。

And he was like, you never know. And I was like, trust me. That's it.

演员斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆去年三月接受《新鲜空气》制作人萨姆·布里格的采访。格雷厄姆是网飞剧集《青春期》的联合创作人、编剧兼主演，该剧获得13项艾美奖提名，其中3项属于格雷厄姆。我是大卫·B·安科利，这里是《新鲜空气》。

Actor Stephen Graham speaking to Fresh Air producer Sam Brigger last March. Graham is cocreator, cowriter, and star of the Netflix show adolescence, which is nominated for 13 Emmy Awards, including three for Graham. I'm David B. Encooley, and this is Fresh Air.

收听《纽约客广播小时》，聆听深度对话——无论是布鲁斯·斯普林斯汀、Questlove、奥利维亚·罗德里戈、利兹·切尼，人工智能教父杰弗里·辛顿，还是我那些见识卓越的《纽约客》同事。每周请随我们一起，在任何播客平台收听《纽约客广播小时》。

You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really wanna hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

从好的方面来说，你

On the plus side, you

可以无广告收听超过25个NPR播客。从不好的方面来说，你在播客播放器上快进的机会变少了。

get sponsor free listening to over 25 NPR podcasts. On the minus side, you get fewer chances to tap fast forward on your podcast player.

从好的方面来说，你可以支持你关心的事业。从不好的方面来说，你喜欢挑战，觉得这样太容易了。所以为什么不加入我们，来到NPR Plus的积极面呢？了解更多信息并注册请访问+.npr.org。

On the plus side, you get to support something you care about. On the minus side, you like challenges and think this makes it too easy. So why don't you join us on the plus side of things with NPR Plus? Learn more and sign up at +.npr.org.

我们都对生命的大问题感到好奇。我们为何在此？我们该做什么，又该如何理解这一切？在《Ye Gods with Scott Carter》节目中，我与政客、牧师、演员和无神论者交谈，探讨他们如何应对生命的奥秘。他们的故事将引发反思，挑战假设，甚至可能为你自己的旅程带来一些清晰。

We all wonder about life's big questions. Why are we here? What are we to do, and how to make sense of it all? On Ye Gods with Scott Carter, I talk with politicos, priests, actors, and atheists on how they wrestle with life's mysteries. Their stories will spark reflection, challenge assumptions, and maybe even bring you some clarity on your own journey.

收听《Ye Gods》，它是NPR网络的一部分，可在你获取播客的任何地方收听。

Listen to Ye Gods, part of the NPR network wherever you get your podcasts.

史蒂文，我想稍微回溯一下你早期的一个成功之作，就是2006年2月的电影《这就是英格兰》。你在片中扮演一个名叫康博（Combo）的、有种族主义倾向和暴力倾向的光头党成员。电影里有一段相当著名的演讲，充满了白人民族主义意识形态。我们不会播放它，因为我觉得几乎每句话里都有F开头的脏字，所以播放出来会全是哔哔声。

Steven, I wanted to go back a little bit to one of your early successes, which is the movie This Is England from 02/2006. And you play a racist and violent prone skinhead named Combo. And there's a pretty famous speech in the movie that's, like, heavily infused with white nationalist ideology. We're not gonna play it because I think there's an f word in every sentence. So there'd just be like lots of bleeps.

但是，你知道，我想在演艺生涯中，有很多时候你必须作为一个角色去宣扬你自己并不持有的信念。但我在想，这个角色是否尤其困难，部分原因显然是因为它很种族主义，但也因为你自己有多元种族背景，你的一个祖父来自牙买加。这是否让你扮演这个角色变得特别困难？

But, you know, I imagine in a acting career, there's a lot of times where you have to, like, espouse beliefs as a character that you don't hold yourself. But I was wondering if this one may have been particularly hard, obviously, in part because it's it's just racist, but also because you have a multiracial background, and one of your grandfathers is from Jamaica. Like, did that make playing this character particularly difficult for you?

这并没有让它变得特别困难，但它确实让我想去做的是，而且，当我向肖恩解释时也是一样，因为最初当我去

It didn't make it particularly difficult, but what it did make me want to do, and and as well when I explained to Shane, because originally when I went

找梅多斯，他是

to Meadows, who's the

肖恩·梅多斯（Shane Meadows）。是的。他是那位很棒的导演。当我向肖恩解释我是混血儿时，我有点觉得他可能会把这个角色给别人。嗯。

Shane Meadows. Yeah. Who's who's the fantastic director. When I when I explained to Shane that I was mixed race, I kinda thought that he might then give the part to somebody else. Mhmm.

因为我们进行了试镜，还做了一些工作坊。安德鲁·希姆（Andrew Shim）饰演米尔基（Milky），他是那个黑人角色，也是帮派的一员。在即兴表演中，我们——你可以想象——我使用的语言有些极端。我从没对任何人说过什么，但那天晚上，我设法拿到了安德鲁的电话号码，给他打了电话。我说，听着，我只是想为今天对你说的那些话和使用的语言道歉。

Because we'd we'd had auditions and we did a bit of a workshop. And Andrew Shim, who plays Milky, who's the the the black character, who's part of the gang as well, we we'd endured in the improvisation, as you can imagine, you know, I went to some extremes with the language that I used. And I never said anything to anyone, but that night, I managed to get I managed to get Andrew's phone number, and I phoned him up. And I said, look. I I just want to apologize for the language and for the things that I said to you today.

我想让你知道，那不是我的真实想法。那完全不是我。我希望你能理解。我说，而且老实告诉你，我是混血儿。他当时反应是，真的吗？

I want you to know that that's not the way I think. It's not me at all. And I hope you can understand. I said and to be completely honest with you, I'm mixed race. And he was like, really?

我说，是的。他接着说，我就觉得是。我觉得有点什么。然后我说，嗯，你能帮我个忙吗？他问，什么忙？

I said, yeah. He went, I thought so. I thought there was something. And I was like, well, can you do me a favor? And he went, what?

我说，请不要——我正要说，别告诉谢恩（Shane）。他就大喊，谢恩！谢恩！

I went, please don't. And as I was about to say, don't tell Shane. He shouted, Shane. Shane.

然后我

And I

心想，哦，糟了。然后他把电话给了谢恩。谢恩说，喂，你好，哥们。我说，好吧。

was like, oh, no. And then he gave the phone to Shane. And Shane was like, hello. Hello, mate. And I was like, alright.

他问，什么事？我说，听着，谢恩，我刚告诉希米（Shimmy），我是混血儿。你现在可能想把角色给别人了，我理解。他反应是，你在开玩笑吗？我说，没有。

And he went, what is it? And I was like, look, Shane, I just wanted to say, I've just told Shimmy, look, I'm mixed race. You're probably gonna wanna give the bar to somebody else now, and I understand that. And he was like, are you kidding me? I went, no.

我只是——他说，这太棒了。他说，想象一下我们现在能怎么发挥。我问，你什么意思？他说，嗯，我们现在可以往另一个方向走了，可以探索我们从未想过能触及的层面。

I'm just he was like, this is amazing. He said, imagine what we can do with it now. I went, what do you mean? He went, well, we can take it somewhere else now. We can take it somewhere else that we never thought had taken it.

然后我们确实这么做了，我们真的深入挖掘了，故事变得更侧重于他父亲造成的 abandonment issue（被抛弃的心理问题），以及他不被接受或无法融入自我认同和黑人家庭部分身份的问题。所以我们后来为角色增添了如此复杂的层次。

And then we did, you know, we really worked on it, and what it became about was it became more about an abandonment issue from his father, and kind of not being accepted or not being a part of the identity of his self and the black part of his family. So we we added such a complexity to it then.

你在利物浦郊外的柯比（Kirby）长大。来自一个混合家庭，你在童年时期不得不处理种族主义问题吗？

You grew up just outside of Liverpool in Kirby. And did you have to deal with issues of racism as a child coming from a mixed family?

是的。是的。说实话，从两边来看，我当时自己也有些挣扎，试图找到归属感和定位。

Yeah. Yeah. And if I'm honest here, from both sides. I had a little struggle of my own back then trying to find the sense of where and how I belong.

你是指你的身份认同？你的种族身份？

You mean your ident your identity sort of? Your racial identity?

是的，完全正确。文化上、种族上，很多方面都是。你懂我的意思吗？因为我白人表亲那边的家人说过一些很难听的话，甚至其他家庭成员也说过一些非常恶劣的话，当时还对我母亲说了些特别伤人的话。

Yeah. Completely. Culturally, racially, in many ways. You know what I mean? Because there were certain elements of my my white cousins and on on that side of my family who who said some horrible things and, you know, even other family members said some horrible things and said some really horrible things to my mother at the time.

而在黑人家庭这边，两边也都有人用很难听的方式对我说过话，也对我母亲说过。所以这确实花了一段时间，大概在我十几岁初期才慢慢理清。我不是说我的生活一直如此，其实还是很幸福快乐的，你知道，我的家庭，我和妈妈一起生活——头十年只有我和妈妈。嗯。我深爱我的母亲。

And then on this side of the black family, things were said to me and said to my mother as well in a horrible sense from both sides of it. So it did take a while and it kind of, you know, it's maybe in my early teens. I'm not saying that that's what my life was like all the time because it was very happy and joyous, you know, my household, my mom living with it was just me and my mom for the first ten years. Mhmm. And I adore my mother.

愿上帝保佑我们所有人。她，你知道，她是坚强的女家长，是一位了不起的女性。我爸爸在我10岁时进入了我的生活。你的继父？是的。

God bless us all. She she was, you know, she was the mate she was the strong matriarch, and she was a wonderful woman. And my pops came into my life when I was 10. Your stepfather? Yeah.

我的继父。他是我的继父。你知道

My stepfather. He is my stepfather. You know

但他抚养了你。他是

But he raised you. He was

是的。他抚养了我。他抚养了我。他，你知道，他也是混血。所以他真的教会了我关于身份认同、我是谁、来自哪里，还教我了解了像马库斯·加维、杜桑·卢维杜尔、马尔科姆·X、马丁·路德·金这样的人。

Yeah. He raised me. He raised me. He you know, and he's mixed race as well. So he really taught me about my sense of identity and who I am and where I'm from, and taught me about the likes of Marcus Garvey and Toussaint Louverture and Malcolm X, Martin Luther King.

所以他用历史知识充实了我，让我明白自己是谁，懂我的意思吗，在很多方面都是。然后他还激励我，引导我相信一切皆有可能，去追逐梦想。但作为一个成长中的孩子，你知道，有时候确实很艰难，我花了一些时间才找到自我，才完全接纳真实的自己。你懂我的意思吗？在这方面，如今我内心对自己是谁非常坦然，完全接纳了自己。

So he filled me with the history and the knowledge of who I was, do know what I mean, in many ways. And then he also inspired me and and led me to believe that anything is possible and to follow my dreams. But as a as a kid growing up, there was, you know, at times it was difficult, and it took a little while for me to find my sense of self and for me to be completely comfortable with who I am, really. Do you know what I mean? In that respect, which I, you know, I sit with inside myself of who I am today, and I'm completely comfortable with myself.

但这需要很长时间，我觉得。

But it takes a long time, I think.

你说你的继父在某种程度上帮助了你处理文化和种族认同的问题。当你告诉家人你想当演员时，他也支持了你。你是不是有个很棒的故事，关于他带你去音像店租了一大堆经典电影？比如

You said your stepfather helped you sort of with your cultural and racial identity. He also helped you when you told your family you wanted to be an actor. Do you have this great story of of him taking you to the video store and renting, like, all these great movies? Like

是的。没错。他确实这么做了。《出租车司机》和《猎鹿人》。《出租车司机》、《猎鹿人》、《教父》。

Yeah. Like Yeah. He did. Taxi driver and deer hunter. Driver, the deer hunter, The Godfather.

那大概就是我热爱电影制作的开端，开始欣赏这门艺术和技艺的本质。你明白我的意思吗？然后他向我介绍了大卫·林奇和库布里克这样的导演。还有，嗯，马丁·斯科塞斯。

And it was kind of that's where my the beginning of my love affair for filmmaking started, and and the art and the craft of what what it is. Do you know what I mean? And then he introduced me to the likes of David Lynch and Curry Sour. And it yeah. Martin Scorsese.

你懂我意思吗？所有这些伟大的导演。还有肯·洛奇。艾伦·克拉克。你知道，我从我爸那儿得到了真正优质的教育，因为他一直热爱电影。

Do you know what I mean? All of these great directors. Ken Loach as well. Alan Clark. You know, I got a real great education from my pops because my pops has always loved film.

那大概就是我的起点。然后，你知道，我、他和我妈妈以前经常一起去，比如去泰特美术馆，去欣赏艺术，他让我用不同的眼光看待艺术和其他事物。你知道，我的童年很美好。我非常喜欢。我们会去画廊之类的地方。

And that's kind of where it began for me. And then, you know, me, him and my mom used to always go we'd go, like, to the Tate and to art, he made me look at art and things differently. You know, my childhood was beautiful. I loved it. You know, we'd go we'd go to to the galleries and stuff like that.

我和我妈妈，你懂吧？我和我妈妈会四处走走，看看画作，它们让我的头脑充满了文化。你明白吗？尽管我来自一个住宅区和一栋公寓楼，但他们让我敢于梦想，让我

Me and my mom, do know what I mean? And my mom, we'd walk around, and we'd look at paintings, and they just filled my head full of culture. Do know what I mean? And and yet I came from this housing estate and from a block of flats, but yet they made me dream big, and they made me

看到了这一点。公共住房公寓？那是

see that. Public housing apartment? Is that is

是的。对。对。那就是我最初成长的地方。

that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's where I kinda grew up in the very beginning.

斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆去年三月接受《新鲜空气》制作人萨姆·布里格的采访。格雷厄姆主演了Netflix剧集《青春期》，该剧获得13项艾美奖提名，包括格雷厄姆提名有限剧集/诗选剧集/电视电影类最佳男主角。休息后我们将继续他们的对话。这里是《新鲜空气》。

Stephen Graham speaking to Fresh Air producer Sam Brigger last March. Graham stars in the Netflix show adolescence, which is nominated for 13 Emmy Awards, including Graham for outstanding lead actor in a limited or anthology series or movie. They'll continue their conversation after a break. This is Fresh Air.

本周《思考一下》节目关注查理·柯克的枪击死亡事件。他曾被视为保守派运动的未来。我们将探讨他留下了什么。此外，还有9/11事件受害者的故事，他们的家人在24年后仍在等待正义。为何他们说政府让他们蒙在鼓里。

This week on Consider This, the shooting death of Charlie Kirk. He was seen as the future of the conservative movement. We will look at what he leaves behind. Plus the story of nine eleven victims whose families are still waiting twenty four years later for justice. Why they say the government is keeping them in the dark.

本周请通过NPR应用或您获取播客的任何平台收听相关内容。

Listen this week to consider this on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

在TED广播时间播客中，Alphabet登月工厂的科学家们致力于解决重大而严峻的全球问题，但他们的领导者有时会穿着轮滑鞋打扮成甘道夫出现。

On the TED Radio Hour podcasts, scientists at Alphabet's Moonshot Factory tackle big serious global problems, but their leader likes to show up on rollerblades sometimes dressed as Gandalf.

我试图用这种方式消除人们的戒备，提醒他们幽默和傻气与创造力的源泉非常接近。

My way of trying to disarm people and remind them humor and silliness are very close to the wellsprings of creativity.

通过NPR应用或您获取播客的任何平台收听。

Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是彼得·萨格尔。NPR大多数时候非常严肃，几乎总是以应有的尊重对待新闻人物，通常会为您带来真正重要议题的最重要信息，而且几乎从不向名人询问他们一无所知的事情——除了偶尔的例外。欢迎加入我们这个伟大的例外。

I'm Peter Sagel. NPR is very serious, mostly. It treats newsmakers with all due respect almost all the time. It brings you the most important information about the issues that really matter, usually, and it never asks famous people about things they don't know anything about except once in a while. Join us for the great exception.

请收听NPR的新闻竞猜节目《等等，别告诉我》。

Listen to Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, the news quiz from NPR.

您是否曾觉得有一天会出现在马丁·斯科塞斯的电影片场，与阿尔·帕西诺和罗伯特·德尼罗合作，像是一个不可能实现的梦想？

Did it seem like an impossible stretch to you that one day you would be, you know, on a Martin Scorsese movie set with Al Pacino and Robert De Niro?

当然。

Of course.

那些您在电视上看到的人。

The people you're watching on your television.

是的。所以我的墙上——我的大多数伙伴们贴的是足球运动员（你们叫soccer players，我们这边叫football players）。我的大多数伙伴们墙上贴的是足球运动员。而我确实有——我贴了利物浦队肯尼·达格利什赢得足总杯的照片。我把他们贴在了墙上。

Yeah. So my wall, most of my mates had, you know, soccer players, you call them, football players, we call them over here. Most of my mates had football players on their walls. And I did have I had the FA Cup win inside Liverpool with Kenny Dagliese. I had them on my wall.

但那时我墙上还贴着阿尔·帕西诺、罗伯特·德尼罗、丹尼尔·戴-刘易斯、加里·奥德曼的海报和精美的小明信片。你懂我意思吗？我收集了威廉·达福等所有这些演员的精美照片贴在墙上。你能想象吗？作为一个孩子——别忘了，我甚至都不在美国。

But then I also had posters and, like, little beautiful kind of postcards of Al Pacino, Robert Donnino, Daniel Day Lewis, Gary Old man. Do you know what I mean? I had I had wonderful pictures of all of the William Defoe, all of these actors on my wall. Do you know what I mean? So you can imagine as a young kid and don't forget, it's not like I'm even in America.

我就隔海相望。对，在利物浦这个小地方，而他们...你懂的，这些人物就在我的墙上。所以你能想象我脑子里想什么吗？第一次见到马丁·斯科塞斯时，我有幸能参与《纽约黑帮》。但后来，当我与马蒂、鲍比（罗伯特·德尼罗）、阿尔（阿尔·帕西诺）同桌而坐时——光是现在说出来都觉得不真实——你能想象那个小男孩的内心受到多大冲击吗？

I'm right across the water Yeah. In this little place called Liverpool, and they're not you know, and they were on my wall, these people. So can you imagine what went through my head? One, the first time when I met Martin Scorsese, and I was lucky enough and privileged enough to be a part of Gangs of New York. But then can you imagine what happened to my little head when I was sat at the table with Marty at the Monet, Alpert even saying it now, it just doesn't seem real.

马丁·斯科塞斯在监视器前，罗伯特·德尼罗和阿尔·帕西诺坐在桌旁，马蒂说：‘好了，准备好了吗？开拍。’你能想象在那一瞬间，那个小男孩的内心经历了怎样的震撼吗？

Martin Scorsese at the monitor, Robert Donero, and Al Pacino sat at the table, and Marty says, okay. Are we ready? And action. Can you just see for a split second what happened to that little kid's head?

是的。那么，我们来听听那段戏吧。让我们听听看。

Yeah. Well, let's hear that scene. Let's let's hear that.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

你铺垫得相当好，斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆。

You set that up quite well, Stephen Graham.

非常到位。谢谢。

Very well. Thank you.

这是《爱尔兰人》中的一场戏，你扮演黑帮兼工会头目托尼·普罗文扎诺（人称托尼·普罗），与阿尔·帕西诺饰演的吉米·霍法有过节。你们曾同时入狱，并在狱中争吵。但此时你们都已出狱，霍法想竞选卡车司机工会主席，需要你的支持。他讨厌你，但还是同意见面。

This is a scene from The Irishman where you play a gangster and and union head, Tony Provenzano, who who's known as Tony Pro, and you have a real beef with Jimmy Hoffa, who's played by Al Pacino. You were both in prison at the same time. You got in an argument there. But at this point, you're both out of prison, and Hoffa is trying to become the president of the Teamsters, but he needs your endorsement. And he hates you, but he agrees to meet.

你们在佛罗里达，罗伯特·德尼罗饰演的弗兰克·希兰也在场。你迟到了，而阿尔·帕西诺对此很不满。

And you guys are in Florida. And Frank Sheeran, who's played by Robert De Niro, is there. And you're late, and Al Pacino does not like that.

你迟到了。是因为交通对吧？对，是交通问题。不就是堵车嘛？

You're late. And it was traffic. Yeah. It's traffic. Wasn't it traffic?

是的。给我交通。交通。

Yeah. Give me traffic. Traffic.

你想从我们这里得到什么？从颠簸到颠簸。

What do you want from us? It was bumpy to bumpy.

不。不。这很糟糕，你

No. No. It's it's bad, you

知道。交通。我这辈子从没等过迟到超过十分钟的人。我会说十五分钟。十五分钟正好。

know. Traffic. I never waited for anyone who was late more than ten minutes in my life. I'd say fifteen. Fifteen is right.

不。十分钟。

No. Ten.

我不这么认为。十分钟不够。你得

I don't think so. Ten's not enough. You have

把交通因素考虑进去。这就是我正在做的。我正在考虑交通因素。所以是十分钟。

to take traffic into account. That's that's what I'm doing. I'm taking traffic into account. That's why it's ten.

我还是说十五分钟。

I still say fifteen.

不。十分钟。

No. Ten.

好吧。我们在这个问题上意见不一致。

Fine. We we disagree on that.

嗯，

Well,

十二分半钟怎么样？

how about twelve and a half minute?

来了。十二分

Here we go. Twelve and a

半。正中间。就在正中间。漂亮。

half. Middle. Right in the middle. Beautiful.

漂亮。超过十分钟就说明问题了。这对我来说很有意义。

Beautiful. More than ten is saying something. It's saying something to me.

不。我在这儿。它说明什么就是什么。

No. I'm here. It says what it says.

就这样了。我们接下来怎么办？

So there it is. Where do we go from here?

我能为你做些什么？

What can I do for you?

我希望你，我希望你支持我，你知道的。但在那之前，我们先解决另一件事。不，那件事不关我的事。我无法为你的养老金做任何事。

I want you I I want you to endorse me for you know what. And but before we get there, let's straighten that other thing up. No. The other thing is none of my business. I can't do anything about your pension.

我做不到。有菲茨在就不行。你知道，菲茨在那儿。你去找菲茨。

I can't. Not with Fitz in there. Fitz is in there, you know. You go to Fitz.

我做了。

I did.

他会帮你的。

He'll help you out.

我做了。他说他会处理好的，不问任何问题。你不会那样做，但他会。我指的是另一件事。

I did. He said he'll take care of it. No questions asked. You wouldn't do that, but he will. I meant the other thing.

什么另一件事？你知道的。我不知道。你的道歉。我的道歉。

What other thing? You know. I don't know. Your apology. My apology.

我为什么道歉？

My apology for what?

为你坐在那里像个国王一样吃冰淇淋时说的话。那是种族歧视言论。你们这些人。你知道他说了什么吗？不。

For what you said when you were sitting there in your ice cream like some king. That was an ethnic slur. You people. Did you know what he said? No.

我的意思是，我

I mean, I

听说我听说他在营地里发生了争执，但我不清楚。

heard I heard he had an altercation in the camp, but I don't know.

是的。是的。你们这些人。你就是这么说的。对吧，吉姆？

Yeah. Yeah. You people. That's what you said. Right, Jim?

你们这些人。我比你们低一等吗？

You people. Am I beneath you?

当然。吉米。吉米，来吧。

Definitely. Jimmy. Jimmy, come on.

那是斯蒂芬·格雷厄姆与阿尔·帕西诺、罗伯特·德尼罗等其他著名演员在电影《爱尔兰人》中的场景。首先，这就像是《好家伙》级别的对话水准。你知道，就像'你觉得我很有趣吗'那种感觉，一些斯科塞斯式的对话。我想如果你在剧本上读到这些，可能会觉得非常平淡或无聊，但当这些伟大演员演绎出来时，就充满了能量。你能谈谈这个吗？

That's Stephen Graham with some other famous actors, Al Pacino and Robert De Niro in the movie, The Irishman. So, like, first of all, this is, like, Goodfella's caliber, like, dialogue. Like like, you know, you think I'm funny, like, you know, some of the Scorsese dialogue, like it I imagine if you're reading it on this on the page, it might seem like really banal or boring, but like the way that you have these great actors doing it, it's just so full of, like, energy. Can you talk about that?

是的。你说得对。你知道，剧本上有这些精彩的对话。然后我们进行设置，排练，并与之互动。对于这个特定场景，原本进行得不错，但我们删减了一些对话。

Yeah. You're right. It's, you know, you have these great you have the great dialogue on a script. And then it's kinda set up, and you rehearse, and you play with it. And and with this particular scene, it was it was going good, but we we cut some of the dialogue.

虽然进展真的很顺利，但仍然缺少点什么。马蒂对我说，他说，放开一点。我当时想，什么？我可以即兴发挥吗？

But it it was it was going really good, and but it there was there was still it was lacking something. And and Marty said to me, he he was like, look. Free it up a little bit. And I was like, what? Can I improvise?

他说，是的，就放开一点。之前我们拍了几条时，我在聊天，但弗兰克没有台词。所以罗伯没有任何对话。而我就像我之前跟你说过的，别忘了，我是个曾经把这些人的海报贴在墙上的孩子。

And he went, yeah. Just free it up a little bit. So previously, when we'd done a couple of takes, I was chatting, and there was no dialogue coming from Frank. So Rob didn't have any dialogue. And I was kind of in my like I said to you before, don't forget, I'm a kid who's got posters of these people on his wall.

你明白我的意思吗？所以我心里在想，我正在演戏。有时候表演的奇怪之处在于，你在说台词时，自己的思绪会突然闯入思考过程，这真的很奇怪。你明白我的意思吗？但这只是会发生的事情之一。

Do you know what I mean? So I'm thinking to myself, I'm in a scene. And and, you know, so sometimes the strange thing about acting is your own head pops into your thought processes while you're doing the lines sometimes, which is really strange. Do you know what I mean? But it it's just kind of one of those things that happen.

所以我在和阿尔交谈，然后我环顾四周，我心里想，哦，这是罗伯特·德...我心想，什么？然后我继续演下去。接着我们继续拍摄，然后我心里又想，哦不。我正在和罗伯特·德尼罗演对手戏，但他什么都不说。就像，哦。

So I'm I'm talking with Al, and then I I look around, and I and I look, and I and in my head my head goes, oh, this Robert De And I'm like, what? And I'm like, just carrying on doing the scene. And then it and then we carry on, and then and then in my head it goes, oh, no. I'm in a scene with Robert De Niro, and he doesn't say anything. It's like, oh.

然后马蒂说，放开一点，给戏注入些活力。我说，好的。然后他就想出了最好的台词。关于十五分钟和十分钟的那整段话。

And then Marty said, free it up. Bring some life into it. And I was like, okay. So then that whole and he comes up with the best line. That whole thing about fifteen minutes and ten minutes.

我只是在某个时刻转身——这段剪辑得也很漂亮——我在某个时刻转身说：你觉得呢，弗兰克？你知道，他在整个场景中原本没有任何台词。然后他说出了整个场景中最精彩的一句台词：也许十二分半。你明白我的意思吗？

I just turned at one point because it's edited together beautifully as well. And I just turned at one point, and I said, what do you think, Frank? And he, you know, he didn't have any lines at all in the scene. And then he comes up with the finest line in the whole scene, and he goes, maybe 12 and a half. You know what I mean?

取个中间值。然后整个场景就活起来了。我站起来要走，他们就说：不，不，不。

Down the middle. And then it it it became alive. I go to stand up and walk away, they're like, no. No. No.

来吧，坐下，坐下，坐下。然后他提到了一点，你知道，在关于种族奴隶的那部分，我就问，你知道这个吗？

Come on. Sit down. Sit down. Sit down. And then that little bit where he says, you know, yeah, in the in the ethnic slave, and I go, did you know about this?

然后他说，嗯，我听说你了。他有过争执。所以你有点把它弄真实了，把他带入了场景。结束后，我说，不，我真的很抱歉。

And he goes, well, I heard you. He's had an altercation. So you kind of make it real and bring him into the scene. And and after we'd finished, I went, no. I'm really sorry.

那样行吗？因为我只是，我只是临时加了一些东西进去。他们反应是，什么？你在开玩笑吗？不。

Was that okay? Because I just I I just threw a few things in there. They were like, what? You kidding me? No.

它活起来了。你感觉到了吗？而且你可以想象，对我个人来说，那场戏就像我的欧冠决赛，能成为其中的一部分。你懂我的意思吗？它让我震撼不已。

It came alive. Did you feel that? It and as you can imagine, for me, personally, I slept my Champions League final, that that particular scene being a part of that. You know what I mean? It it blew my mind.

而我那天真正、真正、真正带走的是那两位男士的谦逊，他们在片场的举止，以及他们如何尊重地对待每个人。而且当投入到工作中时，他们毫无自我。这是任何演员都能从这两位工作中的大师那里学到的最重要的一课。

And what I really, really, really took away from that particular day as well was the humility of both of those men, and how they conducted themselves on set and how they treated everybody with respect. But also when when it came to doing the work, they had no ego. And that's the biggest lesson any, you know, any actor can ever learn from those two masters who were there at work.

史蒂文·格雷厄姆，非常感谢您来到《新鲜空气》节目。

Steven Graham, thank you so much for coming on Fresh Air.

非常感谢。这绝对是一种荣幸。

Thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure.

史蒂文·格雷厄姆去年三月与《新鲜空气》制作人萨姆·布里格交谈。格雷厄姆主演了Netflix剧集《青春期》，该剧获得了13项艾美奖提名。艾美奖定于周日晚在CBS电视台播出。这里是《新鲜空气》。

Steven Graham speaking with Fresh Air producer Sam Brigger last March. Graham stars in the Netflix drama adolescence, which is nominated for 13 Emmy Awards. The Emmys are scheduled to be televised Sunday night on CBS. This is Fresh Air.

在《生活工具箱》，我们认真对待建议。我们为您带来基于证据的推荐。为此，我们与各种话题的研究人员和专家交谈。因为我们和您有同样的问题。比如，我的洗发水里到底有什么？

Here at Life Kit, we take advice seriously. We bring you evidence based recommendations. And to do that, we talk with researchers and experts on all sorts of topics. Because we have the same questions you do. Like, what's really in my shampoo?

或者我应该让我的孩子退出足球队吗？或者在经济不确定时期，我该如何处理我的储蓄？您可以在NPR应用程序或任何您获取播客的地方收听NPR的《生活工具箱》。

Or should I let my kid quit soccer? Or what should I do with my savings in uncertain economic times? You can listen to NPR's life kit in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

许多每日短新闻播客只关注单一事件，但眼下您可能需要了解更多。NPR的《Up First》节目每天用不到15分钟为您带来全球三大头条新闻，因为在这个广阔而疯狂的世界里，没有任何单一事件能够完全呈现每个早晨发生的一切。立即收听NPR的《Up First》播客。

A lot of short daily news podcasts focus on just one story, but right now, you probably need more. On Up First from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day in under fifteen minutes because no one story can capture all that's happening in this big, crazy world of ours on any given morning. Listen now to the Up First podcast from NPR.

《唐顿庄园：盛大终章》是这部深受喜爱的六季系列剧的第三部据称也是最后一部电影改编作品，该剧讲述了20世纪初英国乡村庄园的生活。本周上映的这部电影展现了1930年唐顿庄园正在发生的诸多变化，回归的老牌演员阵容中加入了保罗·吉亚玛提、亚历山德罗·诺拉和西蒙·拉塞尔·比尔。我们的影评人贾斯汀·张带来以下评论。

Downton Abbey, the grand finale, is the third and purportedly last film adapted from the beloved six season series about life at a British country estate in the early twentieth century. The movie, which opens in theaters this week, finds many changes afoot at Downton in 1930 with a large ensemble of returning veterans joined by actors Paul Giamatti, Alessandro Navola, and Simon Russell Beale. Our film critic, Justin Chang, has this review.

自1912年《唐顿庄园》的故事开始以来，角色们就不断感叹周遭世界变化之快。矛盾的是，这种观念的不断重复反而让剧集和电影呈现出一种令人安慰（有时也令人恼火）的静态感。确实，六季剧集和两部电影中发生了太多事：世界大战、流行病、发明创造、革命、生死、婚姻、丑闻，以及大量的仆人更替。但那个时代的阶级约束和性别角色仍然在很大程度上生效。

Ever since the events of Downton Abbey began in 1912, the characters haven't been able to stop talking about how quickly the world around them is changing. Paradoxically, the constant repetition of this idea has made the show and the movies feel comfortingly and sometimes annoyingly static. Sure. A lot has happened over six seasons and two movies, a world war, an epidemic, inventions, revolutions, births, deaths, marriages, scandals, and an awful lot of servant turnover. But the class constraints and gender roles of the era are still largely in effect.

进步之风确实来得缓慢，该剧创作者兼编剧朱利安·费罗斯也是如此，他显然不愿与这些角色告别，也不愿过于突然地改变他们的世界秩序。于是我们有了第三部电影《唐顿庄园：盛大终章》，这听起来像是一个明确的告别，但谁知道呢？无论如何，它都比前作《唐顿庄园：新纪元》好得多，后者即使对于一向毫不掩饰自负与荒谬的系列来说也显得自以为是和离谱。由西蒙·柯蒂斯执导的新片背景设定在1930年。已故老夫人（伟大的玛吉·史密斯饰）的肖像挂在庄园众多墙壁中的一面。

The winds of progress sure do take their sweet time, and so does the creator and screenwriter, Julian Fellows, who's clearly reluctant to say goodbye to these characters or append their world order too abruptly. And so we have a third movie, Downton Abbey, the grand finale, which sounds like a pretty definitive farewell, but who knows? Either way, it's much better than the previous movie, Downton Abbey, a new era, which felt smug and preposterous even for a series that has always been unapologetically both. The new movie, directed by Simon Curtis, takes place in 1930. A portrait of the recently deceased Dowager countess, the late great Maggie Smith, hangs on one of the house's many walls.

即使去世后，她依然俯视着所有人。出色的米歇尔·道克瑞饰演的玛丽·克劳利夫人正准备接管唐顿庄园，而她的父亲罗伯特则不情愿地与妻子科拉步入退休生活。就继承戏剧而言，克劳利家族确实不如默多克家族那般戏剧化，但当玛丽抛弃长期缺席的丈夫并立即成为社交弃儿时，他们的计划确实遇到了阻碍。离婚仍然不被认可，很快，玛丽连一张晚宴请柬都收不到，尽管她其他方面的生活仍然极其令人羡慕。在这个场景中，玛丽与她来访的美国叔叔哈罗德（保罗·贾马蒂饰）互诉衷肠。

Even in death, she's still looking down on everyone. Lady Mary Crawley, the superb Michelle Dockery, is preparing to take charge of Downton while her father, Robert, reluctantly steps into retirement with his wife, Cora. As succession dramas go, the Crawleys aren't exactly the Murdochs, but their plans do hit a snag when Mary ditches her absentee husband and immediately becomes a social pariah. Divorce is still frowned upon, and soon, Mary can't get a dinner invitation to save her otherwise still extremely enviable life. In this scene, Mary commiserates with her visiting American uncle, Harold, played by Paul Jamati.

让我猜猜。罗伯特很生气，科拉很同情。

So let me guess. Robert is furious and Cora's sympathetic.

父亲与其说是愤怒，不如说是痛苦。

Papa's miserable as much as angry.

夫人，科拉是美国人。她知道社会能学会接受离婚。要不了多久，这里也会这样的。

Ma'am, Cora's a yank. She knows society can learn to live with divorce. It'll be true here before too long.

但现在还不是。不过，唐顿庄园让我忙得不可开交。

But it's not true yet. Still, Downton keeps me busy.

你在那里忙些什么呢？

What are you up to there?

主要是翻修小屋和改造旧吸烟室。我觉得建一个音乐室是对我两位祖母最好的纪念。

Mainly renovating the cottages and doing up the old smoking room. I thought a music room would be a wonderful memorial for both my grandmothers.

这个主意不错，尽管我母亲更喜欢格什温而不是拉赫玛尼诺夫。

That's a nice idea, even if my mother was more Gershwin than Rachmaninoff.

有很多事情要完成，而这正是需要你帮忙的地方。

It's a lot to get done, but that's where you come in.

我真的得走了。

I really gotta go.

晚餐愉快。

Enjoy your dinner.

晚安。晚安。

Good night. Good night.

哈罗德有自己的问题。他管理不善自己和科拉已故母亲的遗产，在经济大萧条之后，立刻让唐顿庄园陷入了新一轮的财务不确定性。哈罗德带来了一位顾问格斯·桑布鲁克，由亚历山德罗·尼沃拉饰演，他那油滑的笑容立刻让人高度警惕。与此同时，楼下也发生了很多变化。男管家卡森终于要退休了，尽管他对放弃自己的权力心情复杂。

Harold has problems of his own. He's mismanaged the estate of his and Cora's late mother, plunging Downton into a fresh wave of financial uncertainty right on the heels of the depression. Harold has brought along an adviser, Gus Sambrook, played by Alessandro Nivola, with an oily smile that immediately puts you on high alert. Meanwhile, there are a lot of changes going on downstairs. Carson, the butler, is finally retiring, though he has mixed feelings about relinquishing his authority.

厨师帕特莫尔夫人则以更优雅的方式退出，自豪地将厨房的控制权交给了她的门徒黛西，由出色的苏菲·麦克谢拉饰演。随着克劳利家族规模缩减，玛丽夫人被排斥，费洛斯精心安排了一系列‘我们来办场演出’的次要情节。年度郡集市的计划正在进行中，西蒙·拉塞尔·比尔饰演一位怒目而视的当地势利小人，他抵制一切让活动更向社区开放的努力，抢尽了每一场戏的风头。多米尼克·韦斯特也回归了，饰演风度翩翩的演员盖伊·德克斯特，带着他的私人助理兼不太秘密的男友托马斯·巴罗，由优秀的罗伯·詹姆斯-科利尔饰演。这无疑是唯一一位以过夜客人身份回到唐顿庄园的前男仆。

The cook, missus Patmore, is exiting with far more grace, proudly seeding control of the kitchen to her protege, Daisy, played by the winning Sophie McShara. As the Crawleys are downsized and Lady Mary is ostracized, Fellows orchestrates a flurry of let's put on a show subplots. Plans are underway for the annual county fair, and Simon Russell Beale steals every scene as a glowering local snob who resists every effort to make the event more open to the community. And Dominic West is back as the dashing actor Guy Dexter with his personal assistant and not so secret boyfriend, Thomas Barrow, the excellent Rob James Collier. Surely, the only former Downton footman ever to return to the place as an overnight guest.

最棒的是，他们还带来了不是别人，正是诺埃尔·科沃德，由阿尔蒂·弗鲁尚饰演，他对这位伟大剧作家的模仿令人垂涎。在一个可爱的场景中，科沃德为克劳利一家及其晚宴宾客弹唱，仆人们在远处聆听。这让我想起了近二十年前为朱利安·费洛斯赢得奥斯卡最佳编剧奖的庄园谋杀谜案《高斯福庄园》中一个几乎相同的场景。《高斯福庄园》由罗伯特·奥特曼执导，他敏锐的民主 sensibility 抑制了素材中的阶级主义。相比之下，《唐顿庄园》一直沉浸在对地主乡绅鼎盛时期的温暖怀旧中，而电影更是将这一点发挥到极致，以至于楼下的角色被草草带过。

Best of all, they've also brought along none other than Noel Coward, played by Arty Fruchan, who does a drool impersonation of the great playwright. In one lovely scene, Coward sings and plays the piano for the Crawleys and their dinner guests, while the servants listen from a distance. I was reminded of a near identical sequence from Gosford Park, the manor house murder mystery that earned Julian Fellows a screenwriting Oscar more than two decades ago. Gosford Park was directed by Robert Altman, whose sharp democratic sensibility kept the material's classism in check. Downton Abbey, by contrast, has always drawn a warm bath of nostalgia for the heyday of the landed gentry, and the movies have leaned into this to the point of giving the downstairs characters short shrift.

不过在这里，费洛斯明智地进行了修正，减少了错综复杂的情节，专注于情感动态。休·博内威利和吉姆·卡特有一个感人的时刻，罗伯特和卡森承认了他们多年并肩的领导。劳拉·卡迈克尔也有几场表现出色的戏份，饰演经常与姐姐玛丽不合的伊迪丝夫人，如今却成了她最坚强的盟友。这足以让我想看看接下来会发生什么，当玛丽——在一个贵族庄园不能由女性拥有或继承的时代长大——现在完全掌权。我不是在要求拍第四部电影，但这可能会改变。

Here, though, Fellows wisely course corrects, cutting back on the convoluted plotting and zeroing in on the emotional dynamics. Hugh Bonneville and Jim Carter have a moving moment in which Robert and Carson acknowledge their years of side by side leadership. Laura Carmichael also gets a few commanding scenes as lady Edith, who so often been at odds with her older sister Mary and now becomes her strongest ally. It's enough to make me want to see what happens next when Mary, raised in an era when noble estates couldn't be owned or inherited by women, is now fully in charge. I'm not asking for a fourth movie, but that could change.

正如《唐顿庄园》一直提醒我们的那样，世事往往如此。

Things often do as Downton Abbey always reminds us.

贾斯汀·常是《纽约客》的影评人。他评论了《唐顿庄园》的大结局。在周一的节目中，普利策奖得主记者特雷梅因·李在他的新书《一千种死法》中探讨了美国枪支暴力的毁灭性代价。通过深入的描绘，李展示了失去亲人的痛苦如何在家庭和社区中回荡，重塑生活和未来，包括他自己的。希望您能加入我们。

Justin Chang is a film critic for the New Yorker. He reviewed Downton Abbey, the grand finale. On Monday's show, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Tremaine Lee explores the devastating toll of gun violence in America in his new book, a thousand ways to die. Through intimate portraits, Lee shows how loss reverberates across families and communities, reshaping lives and futures, including his own. I hope you'll join us.

要了解节目内容并获取我们采访的精彩片段，请在Instagram上关注我们@NPR Fresh Air。《新鲜空气》的执行制片人是丹尼·米勒。萨姆·布里格是我们的管理制片人。我们今天的资深制片人是西娅·查洛纳。我们的技术总监和工程师是奥黛丽·本瑟姆，乔伊斯·利伯曼、朱利安·赫茨菲尔德和亚当·斯塔尼舍夫斯基提供额外的工程支持。

To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Sam Brigger is our managing producer. Our senior producer today is Thea Challoner. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham with additional engineering support by Joyce Lieberman, Julian Hertzfeld, and Adam Staniszewski.

我们的采访和评论由菲利斯·迈尔斯、罗伯塔·夏洛克、安妮·玛丽·巴尔达纳多、劳伦·克伦泽尔、特蕾莎·马登、莫妮克·拿撒勒、苏珊·雅昆迪和安娜·鲍曼制作和编辑。我们的数字媒体制作人是莫莉·C·V·内斯珀。霍普·威尔逊是我们的视觉顾问制作人。

Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Sherlock, Anne Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Theresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Susan Yacundi, and Anna Baumann. Our digital media producer is Molly C. V. Nesper. Hope Wilson is our consulting visual producer.

代表特里·格罗斯和坦尼娅·莫斯利，我是大卫·B·安库利。

For Terry Gross and Tanya Moseley, I'm David B. Ancooley.

在TED广播时间播客中，阿斯特罗·泰勒领导着Alphabet的秘密实验室，该实验室背后有诸如自动驾驶汽车等成功项目，也有像谷歌眼镜这样备受瞩目的失败项目。

On the TED Radio Hour podcast, Astro Teller leads Alphabet's secret lab behind successful projects like self driving cars and high profile flops like Google Glass.

在那个案例中，我们确实太早了。

We were too too early in that case.

Alphabet登月工厂的CEO谈创新与把握时机。请在NPR应用程序或您获取播客的任何地方收听。

The CEO of Alphabet's Moonshot Factory Factory on innovation and getting the timing right. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

嘿，我是瑞秋·马丁，NPR《Wildcard》的主持人。在我作为电台主持人的许多年里，沉默让我有点紧张。那是回答前的停顿，因为你不知道麦克风另一端发生了什么。

Hey. It's Rachel Martin. I'm the host of Wildcard from NPR. For a lot of my years as a radio host, silence sort of made me nervous. That pause before an answer because you don't know what's going on on the other side of the mic.

但现在，我喜欢这种沉默。

But these days, I love it.

天啊。哇哦。给我一分钟。是的。是的。

Gosh. Woah. Give me a minute. Yeah. Yeah.

思考一下。

Think.

请收听NPR独家播出的《Wildcard》播客。

Listen to the wildcard podcast only from NPR.

每周五，《The 1A》播客致力于帮助您拨开信息迷雾，聚焦新闻要闻。在我们的周五新闻综述中与我们一同结束这一周。聆听深入报道本周重大新闻的记者们的见解。每周加入我们的周五新闻综述。请收听来自NPR和WAMU的《The 1A》播客。

On Fridays, the one a podcast is all about helping you cut through the info fog and get to what's important in the news. Close out the week with us on our Friday news roundup. Hear from reporters who've been embedded with the biggest news of the week. Join us every week for the Friday news roundup. Listen to the one a podcast from NPR and WAMU.