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最近，感觉新闻每小时都在变化。
These days, it feels like the news changes every hour.
嗯，NPR 也有一个做这种内容的播客。
Well, NPR has a podcast that does that too.
NPR News Now 每小时都会为您带来一段五分钟的全新节目，内容清晰、基于事实、易于理解，涵盖最新最重要的头条新闻。
NPR News Now brings you a fresh five minute episode every hour of the day with the latest, most important headlines in episodes that are clear, fact based, and easy to digest.
请在 NPR 应用程序或您收听播客的任何平台收听 NPR News Now。
Listen to NPR news now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
这是《Fresh Air》。
This is Fresh Air.
我是托尼娅·莫斯利，今天我的嘉宾是歌手、词曲作者兼演员吉尔·斯科特。
I'm Tonya Mosley, and my guest today is singer, songwriter, and actor Jill Scott.
她上个月发行了第六张录音室专辑《致可能关心的人》，这是她十年来首张新专辑。
She released her sixth studio album To Whom This May Concern last month, her first new music in a decade.
接下来播放这张专辑中的一首单曲，名叫《Precia》。
Here's a single from the album called Precia.
基础的字母表。
Elementary alphabetic.
有太多压力要看起来和他们一模一样。
So much pressure to appear just like them.
和他们一模一样。
Just like them.
和他们一模一样。
Just like them.
有太多压力要看起来和他们一模一样。
So much pressure to appear just like them.
这首歌最近登上了公告牌成人R&B电台播放榜榜首，讲述的是被要求以某种方式外貌、声音和行动，以及在私底下被渴望却在公开场合不被承认的沉重负担。
The song recently went to number one on the Billboard adult R and B airplay chart, and it's about the weight of being asked to look, sound, and move through the world a certain way and being desired in private but not claimed in public.
以及停止为他人舒适而表演所需的那份沉默的勇气。
And the quiet courage it takes to stop performing for someone else's comfort.
吉尔·斯科特已经从事音乐创作二十多年了。
Jill Scott has been making music for more than twenty five years.
据说，奎斯特对根源音乐的热爱最初是在费城的口语诗场景中被发现的。
The story goes that Quest's love of the roots first discovered her as part of Philadelphia's spoken word scene.
她2000年的首张专辑《谁是吉尔·斯科特？》
Her 2000 debut, who is Jill Scott?
《词语与声音第一卷》用双白金销量、三项格莱美提名以及一种帮助定义新灵魂乐的声音，回答了这个问题。
Words and sounds volume one answered its own question with double platinum sales, three Grammy nominations, and a sound that has helped define neo soul.
自那以后，斯科特赢得了三项格莱美奖，出版了一本畅销诗集，并发展了演艺事业，出演过HBO的《第一号女侦探社》、BET+的《第一任妻子俱乐部》，以及泰勒·派瑞《我为什么结婚了？》中的谢莉角色。
Since then, Scott has won three Grammys, written a best selling book of poetry, and built an acting career that has spanned from HBO's the number one ladies detective agency, BET plus's First Wives Club, and the role of Sheila in Tyler Perry's Why Did I Get Married?
这个角色如此受欢迎，泰勒·派瑞今年将再次让她回归，在Netflix的《我为什么结婚了？2》中出演。
A character so beloved, Tyler Perry is bringing her back this year in why did I get married again for Netflix.
吉尔·斯科特，欢迎来到《新鲜空气》。
And Jill Scott, welcome to Fresh Air.
谢谢。
Thank you.
很高兴有你做客。
It's a pleasure to have you.
我也有同样的感受。
I feel the same way.
能来到这里我非常开心。
I'm so happy to be here.
那首歌《Precia》，作为你十三年来的首支单曲，真是一首好歌。
That song, Precia, what a song for your first single in thirteen years.
它源自如此个人化的内心，我只是想知道它的创作灵感是什么。
It comes from such a personal place, and I just wanna know the inspiration behind it.
《Precia》是我最后收到的几首歌之一。
Precia was one of the last songs that I got.
为了制作这张专辑，我很久以来一直在收集制作人提供的音乐，然后我听到了它。
I've been collecting music from producers for quite some time in order to make this album, and I heard it.
我特别喜欢和弦中的不和谐感。
And it I I love the the the dissonance in the chords.
嗯。
Mhmm.
和弦听起来如此阴暗而令人难忘。
The chords felt so dark and haunting.
但这段音乐也感觉非常性感。
But it also the music felt very sexy as well.
这种能量究竟是什么？
Like, what is this energy?
嗯。
Mhmm.
我提笔写下，这些就是最先涌出的文字。
And I put paper to pen, and those are the first things that came out.
我希望你在白天也是我的，夜晚更是如此。
I wanted you to be mine in the daytime as well as the night.
哦，这是一个被渴望却未被占有的角色。
Oh, this is someone who is desired but not claimed.
我喜欢这个想法，因为我知道，确实有人没有选择我深爱的碧昂丝。
And I like that idea because I it it I know that there are there are people who didn't choose my beloved Beyonce.
你知道，有些人会错过Tyler the Creator这样的人。
You know, there there are people who who passed, you know, on Tyler the Creator.
你知道，这并不仅仅针对体型丰满、肤色深、有雀斑或罗圈腿的人。
You know, it it it's not specifically just for some someone who is plus size or who's brown skin or who has freckles or, you know, is bowlegged, you know.
关键是，即使你完全做自己，仍有人会错过你，私下里却对你心生渴望。
It's it's the fact that you could be all of what you are and someone would pass on it, desire you privately.
但因为社会认为一个人必须长得某种样子、成为某种样子，或者想通过身边有个符合特定标准的人来获得认可。
But because society says that someone has to look a certain way or be a certain way or or that you want to to gain favor by having someone who looks a certain way on your arm.
说实话，我见过太多这样的情况，这一直让我感到不安——你甚至没有选择自己真正喜欢的东西。
You know, I've seen it a lot and it's always disturbed me, quite frankly, that you've you're not even choosing what you actually like.
有一位名叫贾斯敏·卡诺克的作家写过一篇广为流传的文章，她说，对成年女性而言，压力是一种认可，她特意使用了这个说法。
There's a widely circulated essay from a writer named Jasmine Cannock who said that pressure lands as a recognition for grown women, and she used that term specifically.
我想读一段摘录。
And I wanna read an excerpt.
她写道，吉尔·斯科特在《压力》中提供了一种稀有的东西。
She writes, what Jill Scott offers in pressure is something rare.
她指出，成年女性默默承受的重担——既要成为一切、承载一切、吸收一切，还要表现得优雅从容。
She names the weight grown women carry quietly, the pressure to be everything, hold everything, absorb everything, and will still make it look graceful.
她理解那种意识到自己并非因缺乏价值而被拒绝，而是因为自己的完整与丰富不符合他人理想形象的感受。
She understands what it feels like to realize you weren't rejected because you lack value, but because your fullness didn't fit someone else's image.
说得对。
Word.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
说得好。
Well said.
当你从如此粗糙、真实的情感出发，创作出一件有明确意图的作品，而你的意图最终被理解时，那是一种怎样的感受？
How does that feel to start with something that's so rough and raw, and then you create this piece of work with an intention, and then your intention is received?
这让人倍感震撼。
It's overwhelming.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
这确实让人感到不知所措。
It really is overwhelming.
我知道自己想表达什么。
I know what I meant.
我知道我多么希望这张专辑能真正地触达人心。
I know how much I wanted the album to to reach people in a real way.
我太希望它能做到了。
I I wanted it so bad.
我非常希望它能成功，也为它付出了巨大的努力。
I wanted it so and I worked so hard for it.
我反复推敲每一行歌词、每一个词、每一个语调。
I pined over every line, every word, every inflection.
当你
When you
你说你太希望它成功时，我想说的是，这张专辑的主打标题是：已经十年了。
say you wanted it so bad, I mean, the thing that, the headline of this record, this album was it's been ten years.
已经整整十年了。
It's been a whole decade.
是的。
Yes.
你一直离开在外，过着自己的生活，做着自己的事。
And you've been gone living life and doing your own thing.
当你说到你一直渴望、一直想要的时候，你具体是什么意思？
And when you say you've been pining it, you've been wanting it, what do you mean?
那个中断是刻意的吗？还是说，某种程度上你只是在努力寻找回归的方式，去达到你所说的那种状态？
Was that break intentional, or was it also a mix of you just trying to find your way back in some way to get to that thing that you're talking about?
我从第一次读妮基·乔万尼的诗起，就真正爱上了写作。
I literally loved writing from the very first time I read Nikki Giovanni's poetry.
非常喜欢。
Loved it.
那时候你多大？
And how old was that?
那是什么时候？
When was that?
我当时大概是12岁或13岁。
I was, I think 12 or 13.
是的。
Uh-huh.
非常喜欢。
Loved it.
以前我从未在文字中看到过自己。
Never really saw myself on paper before.
当我读妮基·乔万尼的诗时，我能闻到祖母给我梳头时腿间的乳液味道。
I could smell the lotion between my grandmother's legs when she would braid my hair when I read Nikki Giovanni.
我喜欢那种感觉。
Like, I love that.
我也想写出那样的文字。
I wanna write like that.
当你说到你想写得像那样时，我认为对我来说，妮基·乔万尼最了不起的一点是
And when you say you wanna write like that, I think for me, one
她让平凡的事物变得如此美丽。
of the most powerful things about Nikki Giovanni is she she made the ordinary so beautiful.
那是你想要身处其中的地方。
It was the place you wanted to be.
谈论杀死一只怀孕的蟑螂的喜悦。
Talking about the joy of killing a pregnant roach.
你知道吗？
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
我懂这种喜悦。
I know that joy.
这张专辑里有一首歌叫《致妮基的颂歌》。
There's actually a song on the album called ode to Nikki.
没错。
That's right.
真正有力的是，它的韵律正是妮基写作的方式。
And, what's really powerful about it is it's in the cadence of the way Nikki wrote.
我想放一小段，然后我们换个话题再深入聊聊。
I wanna play a little bit of it, and we'll talk a little bit more about it on the other side.
她没有被困在永恒的循环中。
She is not trapped in a perpetual loop.
他们没有在做自己习以为常的事。
They are not doing what they are used to.
他没有坐在同一块混凝土上空想。
He is not sitting on the same concrete wishing.
她是一个鲜活的、充满生机的天蓝色预言。
She is a living, alive, celestine prophecy.
他真的能品尝到自己的活力。
He can actually taste his own vibrancy.
她随着自己的交响曲摇曳，轻轻晃动吊床，感受微风，自我激励，自我满足，充满好奇与惊奇，令人兴奋，牢笼崩塌，充满自豪，也充满谦逊，偶有跌倒，不再自我贬低。
She is swaying to her symphony, rocking, rocking her hammock, feeling the breeze, self motivating, self satisfactioning, wonder filled curiosity, exciting, cages crumble, much pride, much humble, much fumble, No more dumbing down.
为了什么？
For what?
为了谁？
For who?
绝美的景色。
Exquisite views.
有意识的奢华。
Intentional luxury.
扭曲汤匙的思维。
Mind bending the spoon.
复杂的简约。
Complex simplicity.
富有同理心的。
Sympathical.
被阳光触碰的美丽生命。
Beautiful beings touched by the sun.
重新定义，闪耀光芒。
Redefining, shining.
声波振动。
Vibrating sonically.
那是我的嘉宾吉尔·斯科特，这段来自她最新专辑《致可能关心的你》。
That was my guest Jill Scott, and that's a cut from her latest album To Whom This May Concern.
这首曲子叫《致妮基》，你当时还很小，大概十二三岁的时候第一次
And that cut is called ode to Nikki, And you were really young, so you were about 12 or 13 when you first
发现她。
found her.
你还记得当时你在读什么吗？
Do you remember what it was you were reading?
不记得。
No.
我真的不记得那是什么了。
I honestly don't remember what it was.
我本该记得的。
I should.
我记得那些图片，也记得当时的感觉。
I remember the pictures, and I remember how I felt.
那是一本诗集，但我的英语老师，她叫弗兰·丹ish。
It was a a book of poetry, but my English teacher, her name was Fran Danish.
她给我们列了一张名单，让我们写关于其中一些人的作文，我选了妮基·乔万尼，当时我还以为她可能是某个意大利男人或意大利女人。
She gave us a list of people to do a essay about, And I landed on Nikki Giovanni, and I just thought it was probably, like, some Italian guy or some Italian lady.
是的。
Yes.
我找到了这位诗人。
And I found this poet.
自我膨胀显然在我身上很突出，尤其是在所谓的新灵魂时代。
Ego tripping, obviously, you know, was was big for me, particularly in the, quote, unquote, neo soul era.
在大学里，我们都在发现诗人，举办诗歌朗诵会。
We were all discovering poets and having poetry slams.
在大学时，我想选她的课，但没选上。
In college, I tried to get into her class and couldn't.
是的。
Yeah.
我试过了。
Oh, I tried.
就是进不了那门课。
Couldn't get in that class.
我从未有机会和她握过手。
I never actually had a chance to shake her hand.
你从来没见过她？
You never met her?
我从来没见过她。
I never met her.
但她的影响是巨大的。
But the impact is massive.
我在深入研究这张新专辑时发现的一件事是，它发行在你的Blues Babe唱片公司下。
One of the things that I found remarkable as I was digging deeper into this new album is that it's come out on your Blues Babe records.
那是你的厂牌。
That is your label.
你完全拥有这个厂牌。
You own this one completely.
这是否给了你自由，让你能够真正沉浸在那种状态中，从而以你独特的方式表达真实？
Has it offered you the freedom to be able to really sit in that pocket that you sit in that allows you to speak that truth in the way that you do?
是的。
Yes.
一切的一切都把我带到了这个地方。
Everything everything has led me to this place.
作为一个53岁的女性，我按照自己的方式、在自己想的时候、为我想服务的人来经营我的事业。
As this 53 year old woman who is, you know, maneuvering her career the way she wants to, how she wants to, when she wants to, for whom she wants to.
是的。
Mhmm.
这一切都是计划的一部分，我甚至不知道它正在发生，但我非常喜欢。
This is a this has all been a part of the the plan I didn't know that was even happening, but I love it.
我还是那个在八年级毕业典礼上朗诵诗歌并获得全场起立鼓掌的小女孩。
I'm the same little girl who read a poem for my eighth grade graduation and got a standing ovation.
我确实说了我所说的话。
And and I meant what I said.
我上学的学校有空调。
I the school that I went to, it had air condition.
地板上铺着地毯。
It had carpets on the floor.
它有储物柜。
It had lockers.
它有午餐。
It had lunch.
而相对于我之前就读的学校，这简直是一种震撼。
And from the school that I had come from before, you know, this was a revelation.
这是一切。
This was everything.
它让我渴望更多。
It's it set me up for wanting more.
对吧？
Right?
所以那个读诗的小女孩，所有人都站了起来，我以前从未在公众场合做过任何事，但得到了这样的肯定。
So that little girl who reads the poem and everybody stands up and I'd never really done anything in public before, you know, got this this yes.
我们听到了你的声音。
We hear you.
我们感同身受。
We feel you.
我们理解这一点。
We understand it.
我们也能看到。
We see it too.
它让我知道我不是一个人，还有人真正怀揣梦想。
It let me know that I wasn't alone, that there are people who dream for real.
这就是《致关心此事者》所要表达的一切。
This is what To Whom This May Concern is is all about.
就是那个小女孩，混合着一些现实生活的片段，你知道的，作为一个女儿。
It's that little girl mixed with some some living, you know, being a a daughter.
我父亲去世了。
My my father passed.
作为母亲，我儿子正处在关键阶段。
Being a mother, my son is in this critical area.
作为女儿面对我的母亲，这又是另一种关系。
Being a daughter as well to my to my mother, that's a whole other dynamic.
现在我是家里的顶梁柱。
Now I'm the leader in our household.
你知道，以前妈妈照顾我，现在我要反过来照顾妈妈。
You know, when my mother has been my mother, now I have to mother my mother.
天啊，很多事情要处理。
Like, oh, a lot of stuff.
我五十岁了。
I turned 50.
有一道光在我耳边突然巨响，一切都无法回头了。
There was a light that clapped loudly in my ears, and there's no going back.
我现在就在这里。
I'm here now.
这是我有生以来最好的生活，没有之一。
This is the best life I have ever had, period.
你正处在一个如此美好的境地，你会说：我正在过着我想过的生活。
You're at this place of such beauty where you say, I am living the life I wanna live.
我正处在我一直梦想的年龄。
I am the age that I have always dreamed of being.
但对你来说，一直都是这样吗？
But has it always been that way for you?
对我来说，这真的关乎这段旅程。
For me, it it really is about the journey.
听我说。
Listen.
我所想要的，只是一栋位于春园街的房子。
All that I wanted was a house on Spring Garden.
那是在费城吗？
And that's in Philly?
是的。
Yeah.
春园街是什么样子的？
And what's Spring Garden like?
三四层高的房子。
Three, four story homes.
它们有白色大理石台阶和铁艺栏杆，高高的天花板，精致的石膏线和硬木地板。
They have white marble steps with rod iron banisters, tall ceilings with very intricate crown molding and hardwood floors.
我的天，简直是梦想。
I mean, dream.
我常常慢悠悠地走过那里，希望有人开着窗或门，好让我偷看一眼。
I would walk by there real slow hoping that somebody would have their window or their door open so I could take a peek.
是的。
Yes.
那不是我出身的地方，但我渴望拥有。
That's not where I come from, but I wanted it.
那就是我全部想要的。
That's all I wanted.
就这样了。
That was it.
我打算坐在台阶上，抱着我的猫，翘着腿喝咖啡。
And I was gonna sit on the steps with my cat, and I was gonna drink coffee with my legs crossed.
那就是我的梦想。
That was the dream.
是的。
Yes.
我的石膏线太美了。
My crown molding is so beautiful.
它很
It's
你有没有意识到某个时刻
Is there a moment when you realized
每一天。
Every day.
每天。
Every day.
是的。
Yeah.
每天。
Every day.
我觉得这肯定很烦人。
Like, I I I'm sure it's annoying.
你知道，我肯定有人会觉得这样自我满足很烦人。
You know, I'm sure somehow somewhere in somebody that this is annoying that anybody could feel so self satisfied.
当一切看起来都那么糟糕时，我却常常感到满足。
I feel satisfied when so often everything seems so terrible.
关系都很糟糕。
Relationships are bad.
孩子都很糟糕。
Kids are bad.
这个系统很糟糕。
The system is bad.
而且它就是如此。
And and it just it is.
它就是如此。
And it is.
它真的，真的就是这样。
It really, really is.
有一些人生活在光明中，即使处境艰难，仍追随内心的指引。
And there are people who live within the light that follow their that inner voice even when it sucks.
他们犯下糟糕却美妙的错误，嗯。
They make terrible, wonderful mistakes Mhmm.
并从中学习。
And learn from them.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我们来聊聊在费城长大的经历吧。
Let's talk a little bit about growing up in Philadelphia.
你主要是和妈妈以及祖母一起长大的。
You grew up primarily with your mom and your grandmother
是的。
Yes.
在费城北部。
In North Philly.
对。
Yes.
这并不总是如此，但我一直在思考的是，你在这样一个由女性组成的多代同堂家庭中所学到的一些教训。
And this is not always the case, but the thing that I've been thinking about is some of the lessons that you learned by being in a multigenerational home of women.
你身上散发着强烈的女性气质和温柔，还有一种独特的处世方式。
You're someone who exudes very much, femininity and softness, but also kind of a way of being.
你为每一件发布的作品都设定了这样的意图。
You set this intention with every piece of music that you put out there.
你那个多代同堂的家庭是什么样的？
What was your multigenerational household like?
很好
Good
问题。
question.
首先，充满爱与幽默。
First of all, full of love and humor.
我妈妈和奶奶都争着要吸引我的注意。
My mother and my grandmother both competed for my attention.
是的。
Yep.
通过幽默吗？
Through humor?
有时候。
Sometimes.
是的。
Yeah.
有时候。
Sometimes.
我一直被深爱着。
I've been beloved.
明白吗？
Okay?
所以她们都争相吸引我的注意。
So they competed for my attention.
我祖母出生于1917年。
My grandmother was born in 1917.
她有很多故事。
She had a whole bunch of stories.
一大堆一大堆的故事。
Bunches and bunches of stories.
她是棕色的，非常深的棕色，她的皮肤质感像柔软的桃子。
She's brown, so brown, and and her her skin texture was like a soft peach.
太美了。
Stunning.
她看起来非常像那位女演员。
She looks very much like the actress.
我想她的名字叫霍米。
I think her name is Whommy.
哦，是《罪人》里的。
Oh, from Sinners.
是的。
Yes.
嗯嗯。
Uh-huh.
是的。
Yeah.
我奶奶长的就是那样。
That's what my grandmother looked like.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是我奶奶让我信了上帝。
She's the one that gave me God, my grandmother.
她向你引荐了上帝？
She introduced you to God?
在这儿。
Here.
她自己也是一名歌手吗？
Was she also a singer herself?
是的。
Yes.
但只在私下唱。
But only in private.
我觉得
I think
我听你说过，她的声音像玛哈莉亚·杰克逊。
I've heard you say she sounded like Mahalia Jackson.
差不多是那样的。
Something like that.
只是很真诚。
Just sincere.
你妈妈和奶奶还用什么其他方式来吸引你的注意、争夺你的关注呢？
What were the other ways that your mom and grandma tried to get your attention, compete for your attention?
这很有趣，因为通常情况是相反的。
That's an interesting thing because, typically, it's the other way around.
孩子总是试图吸引大人的注意。
The kid is trying to get the attention of the adults.
不是的。
No.
我祖母在前屋。
My grandmother was in the front room.
我母亲在后面，我可以去拜访其中一个，然后必须去拜访另一个，再接着去拜访另一个。
My mother was in the back, and I could go and visit one, and then I had to go and visit the other, and then go visit the other.
那就是我每天的生活，你知道的，来回奔波，但他们从不聚在一起。
And and that was my days, you know, going back and forth, but they wouldn't come together.
现在，她们在营造家庭氛围方面合作得非常好。
Now they work together beautifully in creating a home.
家庭对我的祖母来说非常重要，对我母亲来说也变得极其重要。
A home was very, very important to my grandmother and became very important to my mother as well.
我们住在费城北部。
We lived in North Philadelphia.
那里有很多老鼠。
There were lots of r o d e n t s's.
是的。
Yeah.
我母亲与它们殊死搏斗。
My mother fought them hand and and nail.
真的，字面意义上的。
Like, literally.
比如，老鼠和
Like, mice and
是的。
Yeah.
蟑螂。
Roaches.
是的。
Yes.
她们奋力抗争，最终赢了。
They fought them hard and she won.
她买下了我们家隔壁的房子。
She got the house next door to us.
那房子一直被废弃着。
It had been abandoned.
那是当时发生那么多事情的原因之一。
It was one of the reasons why there was so much going on.
她买下了那栋房子，并把它打扫干净了。
Got that house, cleaned that house up.
你还记得她决定要买下隔壁那栋房子并把它打扫干净的时候吗？
Do you remember when she decided I'm gonna buy that house next door and I'm a I'm a clean it up?
作为一个小女孩，看着你妈妈这么做，你当时怎么想？
And what you thought as a young girl watching your mom do that?
我只是觉得这太酷了。
I just thought it was dope.
这些就是我对她的期待。
These are the things I expect out of her.
我妈妈能给你做一条裤子。
My mother will make you a pair of pants.
你知道的。
You know?
她能做到。
She could do that.
给你做一碗美味的汤，能让你一整天都饱着。
Make you a great soup that'll keep you full all day long.
你知道的。
You know?
她能做到。
She could do that.
她开始和别人一起做石膏板。
She started, doing drywall with people.
你知道的，这既能赚钱，又能学会怎么安装石膏板。
You know, a way to make money, but also to learn how to put up drywall.
然后她开始学习铺设硬木地板，还学了一些管道知识。
And then she started learning how to put down hardwood floors and then some plumbing.
所以她经常和一些懂这些技能的人待在一起。
So she was hanging around some people that knew how to do some things.
这些都是她本职工作的一部分吗？
Was this all in her day job?
因为她也是一名牙科卫生员。
Because she was a dental hygienist too.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Right.
有一段时间。
For a while.
嗯。
Mhmm.
她一直做牙科卫生员，直到我大约14岁。
She was a dental hygienist till I was about 14.
是的。
Mhmm.
但后来，你知道，之后我就决定要随心所欲了。
But then, you know, after that, it was I'm gonna do whatever I want.
这有点艰难，因为那时候我们都不知道该怎么吃饭。
And that was a little tough because we didn't know, you know, how we were eating.
是的。
Mhmm.
是的。
Mhmm.
但她做了自己想做的事，其中一件她想做的事就是打扫这栋房子。
But she did what she wanted to do and one of the things she wanted to do was clean up this house.
这对她来说很重要，而她确实这么做了。
It was important to her and that's what she did.
因为那些老鼠在废弃房子里安了家，正朝你的房子蔓延过来。
Because all those rodents in an abandoned house is making it their way to your house.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Right.
你们家以前有很多音乐吗？
Was there a lot of music in your home?
有一些。
There was some.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
有些晚上，我妈妈想聊天，就会放米莉·杰克逊的歌，我们一边听一边喝曼尼谢维茨酒。
There were nights when my mother wanted to talk, and she would play Millie Jackson, and we would list drink Manischewitz.
那是一种习惯。
That was a thing.
那是什么？
What is that?
Manischewitz是一种犹太葡萄酒。
Manischewitz is like a Jewish wine.
我觉得它不太好喝。
I think it's it's not very good.
它非常甜。
It's very sweet.
那你当时多大？
And how old were you?
我不知道。
I don't know.
大概十五六岁吧。
Maybe 15, 16.
喝一点Manischewitz，同时听Millie Jackson或者Pointer姐妹的歌。
But having a little Manischewitz and and listening to Millie Jackson or the Pointer sisters.
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我母亲的音乐深深植根于女性特质。
My mother's music was very rooted in womanhood.
我祖母的音乐深深植根于耶和华上帝。
My grandmother's music was very rooted in Jehovah God.
而我的音乐则扎根于诗句和嘻哈。
And my music was rooted in, like, verses, hip hop.
嘻哈。
Hip hop.
叙事。
Storytelling.
是的。
Yes.
妮基·乔万尼会打开门。
Nikki Giovanni, she'd open the door.
我从未回头。
I've never turned back.
今天我们邀请到的嘉宾是格莱美获奖艺术家吉尔·斯科特。
Our guest today is Grammy winning artist Jill Scott.
短暂休息后，我们马上回来。
We'll be right back after a short break.
我是托尼娅·莫斯利，欢迎收听《新鲜空气》。
I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air.
如今，新闻似乎每小时都在变化。
These days, it feels like the news changes every hour.
嗯，NPR 也有一个播客做同样的事。
Well, NPR has a podcast that does that too.
NPR News Now 每小时都会推出一段五分钟的全新节目，为您呈现最新、最重要的新闻，内容清晰、基于事实、易于理解。
NPR News Now brings you a fresh five minute episode every hour of the day with the latest, most important headlines in episodes that are clear, fact based, and easy to digest.
请在 NPR 应用程序或您收听播客的任何平台收听 NPR News Now。
Listen to NPR News Now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
你是什么时候意识到自己会唱歌的？
When did you realize you could sing?
我觉得我一直都知道。
I think I always knew.
那只是属于我的东西。
It was just mine.
这个美妙的东西能让我平静下来，带给我安宁，让我大笑，把情绪释放出来。
This wonderful thing that will calm me down and give me peace and make me laugh and get the feelings out.
哦，你还记得别人那时候吗？是的。
Oh, you remember when other people Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时在上九年级。
I was ninth grade.
我参加了新生日的活动，初试的时候，我有一个鼓手，就我和一个鼓手。
I did freshman day, and the initial audition, I had a drummer, and it was me and a drummer.
我们演奏的是《红木》的主题曲。
We were doing theme from Mahogany.
一部电影。
A movie.
是的。
Yes.
所有的孩子都说：‘哦。’
And all the kids were like, oh.
因为那种感觉就是这样，你知道的。
Because it it it felt like that, you know.
默菲先生给了我很多支持，但他不喜欢这个，于是弹起了钢琴。
Mister Murphy, who gave me so much, did not like that and played the piano.
我感到非常失望，因为我真的很喜欢这一点，你知道的，我上的是全女子学校。
And I was so disappointed because I really liked the fact that, you know, the kids I went to all girls school.
所有的女生都说：‘是的。’
The the the all the girls were like, yeah.
那太酷了。
That's that's cool.
但他拿过去弹起了钢琴。
But he took it and and played the piano.
我从另一个地方唱了这首歌。
And I sang it from a different place.
那非常真挚。
It was so sincere.
我记得自己对那些歌词感到无比真挚。
I remember feeling so sincere about those words.
然后全场沸腾了。
And then the place erupted.
一开始很安静。
It was quiet first.
是的。
Yeah.
我唱完那句，先是沉默，然后一切就结束了。
And I finished the line and then silent and then that was it.
那就是那一刻。
That was the moment.
哦，你也喜欢吗？
Like, oh, you like it too?
因为在此之前，你只是在唱歌，
Because before then, you had been singing,
但只是自己唱，不是在别人面前。
but just singing to yourself, not in front of other people.
不是在别人面前。
Not in front of other people.
你在哪里唱歌？
Where would you sing?
在我奶奶唱歌的地方，浴缸里。
Where my grandma sang, in the tub.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且当你打扫的时候，你知道的，或者在去学校的路上，或者在公交车上，或者在课间玩跳绳的时候，你知道的，到处都是。
And when you cleaning, you know, or on my way to school or, you know, on the bus or at recess while playing rope, like, you know, everywhere.
有一个故事说，The Roots的Questlove是在费城的诗歌朗诵活动中发现你的吗？
There's this story that Questlove from The Roots discovered you as part of the spoken word scene in Philadelphia?
你是怎么记得这件事的？
How do you remember it?
我当时在参加一场诗歌朗诵会。
I was in a poetry reading.
我那时已经经常做这件事了。
I had been doing it quite a bit.
我的感受被听到了，我的朋友们都说，来读诗吧。
I had my feelings heard, my girlfriends were like, read poetry.
我就说，好吧。
And I was like, okay.
于是我写了诗，我的朋友们都说，你是个诗人。
So I wrote, and my girlfriends were like, you're a poet.
我当时就想，我是个像妮基·乔万尼那样的诗人。
And I was like, I'm a poet like Nikki Giovanni.
我要多写一些。
I'm gonna do it more.
于是我写得更多了，渐渐小有名气。
So I did it more and started to make a little bit of a name for myself.
后来，Questlove 来参加了一场诗歌朗诵会。
And then Questlove came to a poetry reading.
我觉得他当时在打碟。
I think he was DJing.
他可能是在打碟。
He might have been.
我不确定。
I don't know.
但他当时在场，问我是否写过歌词。
But he was there, and he asked me if I ever wrote songs.
我当时就说，是的。
And I was like, yeah.
我写过。
I do.
但我其实没写过。
But I didn't.
我撒谎了。
I lied.
那是什么
What was
在那一刻，是什么让你说，是的。
it in you in that moment that made you say, yeah.
我可以。
I can.
当你意识到自己或许能进入这个世界时，那种感觉是怎样的？
And how did that feel knowing that, oh, you you might be able to enter this world?
我并没有真正考虑过这个世界。
I didn't really think about the world.
我只是真心享受我正在做的事情。
I just honestly enjoyed what I was doing.
你是说，这样的机会还可能更多吗？
And you mean there could be more of that?
哦，我真的很希望有更多这样的机会。
Oh, I would like more of that.
所以，是的，我记得当他邀请我去录音室为他们写一段副歌时。
So, yeah, I went, you know, when he invited me to the studio to write a hook for them.
当然。
Sure.
我会去的。
I'll go.
我一直忠实地听着《Do You Want More》。
I had been listening to Do You Want More faithfully.
这是我最喜爱的专辑之一。
It's one of my favorite albums.
直到今天仍然是。
Still is to this day.
所以，你知道，被Questlove邀请是一件大事，而且这还跟费城有关，因为这位仁兄曾经在街角表演。
So, you know, this is a big deal to be asked by Questlove, you know, but it's also like Philly because this is the guy that played, you know, on the street corner.
对。
Right.
你那时候就认识他了。
You knew him at that time.
我不认识他。
I didn't know him.
但你很想认识他。
But you wanted to.
我认识他们。
I knew them.
我听说过他们。
I knew of them.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道的？
You know?
但我不一定会在这些场合主动表现自己。
But I don't I don't necessarily assert myself in these places.
对我来说，这必须是自然发生的，才能真实。
It has to be organic for me so that it's real.
所以你进入录音棚后就开始创作了。
So you entered that studio and then you started writing.
对。
Yeah.
那首《You Got Me》是你第一个真正的作词作曲署名作品。
And there's this song You Got Me was your first real songwriting credit.
是的
Yep.
一首你为The Roots演唱的歌。
A song that you sang for the roots.
但我们听到的是艾瑞卡·巴杜的版本。
But the version that we heard was Erica Badu's version.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
带我们回到那一刻。
Take us back to that moment.
你录了这首歌吗？
Did you record the track?
是的。
Yes.
所有事情都在一天内完成了。
It all happened in one day.
有一天下午，我去了一趟Sigma Sound录音室，和斯科特·斯托奇聊天、闲逛。
Like, one afternoon, I went to the studio, Sigma Sound, and Scott Storch and I were talking, hanging out.
他是谁？
And who's that?
给不太了解的人介绍一下。
Just for folks who don't know.
斯科特·斯托奇现在是一位非常有名的制作人。
Scott Storch is a a big time producer now.
明白吗？
Okay?
是的。
Yeah.
非常有名。
Big time.
但那时候，他正在为The Roots乐队弹键盘。
And at at the time, he was playing keys for the roots.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以我们进了录音棚，事情非常简单。
So we go into the studio, and it was very simple.
他开始弹奏一段旋律。
He started playing a melody.
我唱出了歌词。
I sang the words.
他说，你能录下来吗？
He said, can you record that?
我说，录好了。
And I said, Recorded it.
然后我们去吃午饭。
And we went to lunch.
我们去了一家意大利餐厅。
We went to an Italian restaurant.
我差不多把这事给忘了。
I kinda forgot all about it.
我不知道为什么，但我确实忘了。
I don't know why, but I did.
你知道的，他们喜欢也好，不喜欢也罢。
You know, either they liked it or they didn't.
是的。
Yes.
他们确实喜欢。
And they liked it.
所以我从别人那儿听说了。
So I I heard through the grapevine.
有人告诉我，他们喜欢，打算用它。
I was told that they liked it, that they were gonna use it.
后来我听说它被做成了单曲。
Then I heard it was a single.
我当时想，这是单曲？
I was like, it's a single?
天哪。
Oh my god.
这太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
我简直不敢相信这种事会发生在我身上。
I can't believe this is happening to me.
然后我在二十二街。
And then I was on 22nd Street.
我当时在找美容用品，或者路过美容用品店，听到了这首歌，心想，这就是那首歌。
I was looking for, like, beauty supplies or walking by the beauty supply places and I heard the song and I was like, this is the song.
但那不是我的声音。
And it wasn't my voice.
我当时想，这是谁？
And I was like, what is who?
然后我就知道是谁了，你知道的，我又多听了一点。
And then I knew who it was, you know, I listened a little more.
我想，这是艾丽卡·巴杜。
I was like, that's Erica Badu.
这是艾丽卡·巴杜。
That's Erica Badu.
我做到了。
I made it.
所以你并没有觉得，为什么那不是我的声音？
So you weren't feeling like, why isn't that my voice?
你当时想的是，天啊，艾丽卡·巴杜在唱我的歌词。
You were feeling, oh my gosh, Erica Badu is singing my words.
我大概听到了十四秒左右，等等，不对劲。
I got about fourteen good seconds of, wait a minute.
发生了什么？
What happened?
那不是我。
That's not me.
然后我意识到这远不止如此。
And then I realized it was way bigger than that.
像是大得多。
Like, way bigger.
我是说，这是一扇门。
I'm I this is a door.
一扇门打开了。
A door has opened.
你知道吗？
You know?
埃里卡自己也会说，她从不唱别人的歌。
And Erica will tell you herself, she doesn't sing anybody else's music.
是的。
Mhmm.
我也不知道这件事。
I didn't know that either.
既然知道了这一点，那对你来说意味着什么？知道她从不唱别人的歌，却唱了你的歌词？
So that knowing that, what does that mean to you knowing that she doesn't sing anyone else's music but she was singing your words?
我跟你说，这真的太荒谬了。
I'm telling you, it's it's really ridiculous.
嗯，你最终在清晨迎来了《Welcome》，感觉清新得要命。
Well, you eventually ended up Welcome in the morning feeling fresh to death.
我太幸运了。
I'm so blessed.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
就像
Like
你最终还是和The Roots以及Yes一起巡演了。
well, you eventually ended up touring with The Roots and Yes.
然后你每晚都在演唱。
Then you were singing every night.
你去的每一个城市，我都懂。
Every city that you went to, you got me.
我有机会学习，但差点丢了这份工作，因为我的经纪人只想赚钱。
Got a chance to learn and almost lost that job because I had a manager who wanted to make money.
我不是不想赚钱，但我看到的只是一个歌里的一个副歌。
And it's not that I didn't wanna make money, but I'm seeing one hook on one song.
嗯，
Mhmm.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
你能真正要求别人为唱一个副歌付你多少钱？
How much can you really ask somebody to pay you to sing one hook?
而且我现在有机会去一些我从未去过的地方。
And I'm getting an opportunity to see places I've never been.
我以前没怎么旅行过。
I I haven't traveled much.
我没钱。
I've I don't have any money.
你懂的？
You know?
但现在我可以从一个城市到另一个城市，参观这些场地，站在观众面前表演，这远比诗歌朗诵要丰富得多。
But now I'm getting to go from city to city and see these venues, and I'm performing in front of people, and it's a lot more than poetry readings.
你懂的？
You know?
不过幸运的是，我们解决了这个问题。
Like, but luckily, we fixed that.
我和她不得不分道扬镳。
I we had to part ways, she and I.
那你去巡演了？
And you went on tour?
是的。
Yeah.
我去巡演了。
I went on tour.
你在巡演期间写了你的第一张专辑吗？
And did you write your first album while you were on tour?
没有。
No.
因为当《You Got Me》发布后，给了我信心，你知道的，让我去继续做这件事。
Because when You Got Me came out, that gave me the confidence, you know, to go ahead and do this.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我之前已经联系了制作人和音乐人六七个月了。
I had been calling producers and musicians for six, seven months.
我不知道具体多久，但很长一段时间。
I don't know how long, but a long time.
我一直在等别人回我电话，嗯。
I was waiting for somebody to call me back Mhmm.
这样我就可以为他们写一些歌了。
So that maybe I could write some songs for them.
那就是我的目标，你知道的，去成为
And that was the goal, you know, to To be
一名词曲作者。
a songwriter.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我喜欢这样。
I liked it.
这似乎很适合我。
It seemed it fit me.
我想，如果我能和那个人、这位艺术家聊聊，他们能告诉我一些关于他们生活的事情，我就能为他们创作，那就是我的目标。
And I figured if I could talk to the person, the artist, and they could tell me some things about their life, I can paint I can paint for them, and that was the goal.
我们休息一下吧。
Let's take a short break.
如果你刚刚加入，我们的嘉宾是歌手兼演员吉尔·斯科特。
If you're just joining us, my guest is singer and actress Jill Scott.
广告后我们马上回来。
We'll be right back after a break.
这里是Fresh Air。
This is Fresh Air.
如今，感觉好像
These days, it feels like
新闻每小时都在变化。
the news changes every hour.
嗯，NPR 也有一个做这种内容的播客。
Well, NPR has a podcast that does that too.
NPR News Now 每小时都会推出一集全新的五分钟节目，提供最新、最重要的新闻头条，内容清晰、基于事实、易于理解。
NPR News Now brings you a fresh five minute episode every hour of the day with the latest, most important headlines in episodes that are clear, fact based, and easy to digest.
请在 NPR 应用程序或您收听播客的任何平台收听 NPR News Now。
Listen to NPR news now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
所以当你开始深入投入表演，并意识到自己是一名艺术家时，你创作了一首非常出色的《星条旗》重制版。
So once you started getting deep into your performing and you understand yourself to be an artist, you wrote this really amazing remake of the Star Spangled Banner.
是的，我确实创作了。
I did.
你在 2023 年 Essence 音乐节上表演的这段视频，时不时会在社交媒体上出现。
And a video of a performance that you, you did at the Essence Fest in 2023, it comes up every now and then on social media.
几个月前，这段视频再次在社交媒体上走红。
A few months ago, it was back being viral again.
我觉得，每当国家处于动荡时刻，人们就会找到这段视频，它又会重新流行起来。
I think that people come to it when we are at moments of unrest in the country, and it kinda makes its way again.
你写这首诗的时候才19岁，我想放一段给你听。
You were 19 years old when you wrote this, and I wanna play a bit of it.
我们来听一下。
Let's listen.
这片土地并不对你们这些有色孩子微笑，你们的鲜血铸就了这片土地，这并非自由之风的土地，
That this place doesn't smile on you colored child whose blood build this This is not the land of the wind,
这是我嘉宾吉尔·斯科特在2023年Essence音乐节上的表演。
That was my guest, Jill Scott, performing at Essence Fest in 2023.
告诉我，你19岁时是什么促使你写下这首诗的？
Tell me a bit about what spurred you to sit down and write that at 19 years old.
我不太确定。
I don't know exactly.
我不记得是什么促使我写下了它。
I don't remember what it was that made me write it.
我现在更惊讶的是，是什么让我如今选择演唱它。
I'm mostly amazed at what made me sing it now.
你知道吗，让我在许多年后才唱出这首歌。
You know, made me sing it years and years later.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我觉得我只是太沮丧了。
I think I've I just was so frustrated.
太沮丧了。
Just so frustrated.
我知道我没有说谎。
And I knew I wasn't lying.
我
I
我的意思是，几年后，我会说，你看到街上的血迹了吗？这个地方并不欢迎你，有色孩子？
mean, it's a couple years later, I'll say, you see by the blood in the street that this place doesn't smile on you, colored child?
我本可以说很多别的事情。
I could've said a lot of things.
我说了‘有色人种’。
I said colored.
这是一个很大的谱系。
It's a big spectrum.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
是谁的鲜血建造了这片土地？
Whose blood built this land?
什么
What
是
is
没有华工修建铁路，美国会是什么样？
America without the Chinese on the railroad?
没有那些免费劳力，美国又会是什么样呢？
What is America with without, you know, the all that free labor?
然后请别忘了所有为这个国家做出贡献的其他人，是的。
And then please include all the other people that have contributed to this country Mhmm.
以这么多方式，是谁的鲜血浇灌了这片土地。
In so many ways whose whose blood built this land.
人们曾在这里死去。
People died here.
你知道吗？
You know what?
我说的是，用汗水和他们的双手。
I said With with sweat and their bare hands.
是的。
Mhmm.
但你将会在这个地方死去，而你的记忆被抹去。
But you'll die in this place and your memory erased.
看看正在发生的事。
Look at what's happening.
看看它。
Look at it.
我知道人们一听到就会立刻想到非裔美国人被奴役的历史。
I know that people went immediately to African Americans being enslaved.
是的。
Mhmm.
我是在对我们所有人说话。
I'm talking to all of us.
无论你是哪种人，都身处一种压迫之中，而我们现在所处的环境，只是不断逼迫我们消费、消费，直到被消费至死。
Every single every kind of person you are, is an oppression, and we're in a place that just needs us to purchase and purchase and purchase ourselves to death.
你知道吗，很多人认为哪怕改动《星条旗》中的一个字都是亵渎。
You know, many people think it's sacrilegious to change even a word from the Star Spangled Banner.
这些事物都有其阴暗面。
The stuff has underbellies.
是的。
Mhmm.
嗯，我们对这些阴暗面并不感兴趣。
Well, we're not interested in the underbelly.
你猜还有什么？
And guess what else?
我冒着很大风险才分享了这些。
I risked a lot to share that.
这就是我之前说‘我不知道为什么’时想表达的意思。
That's what I meant when I said, why did I don't even know why.
我不知道我
I I don't know I
不得不这么做。
had to.
当你说到你冒了很大风险时，是的。
When you say you risk a lot Yes.
只是知道这是一首关于它的歌。
Just knowing that it's a song on it.
死亡威胁。
Death threats.
好几个小时的博客文章，里面的人对我非常非常刻薄。
Whole hours of blogs with people being very, very ugly towards me.
有很多关于种族的内容。
There was a lot of stuff about race.
我当时在谈论我们整个美国社会，嗯。
I was talking about us as a American society Mhmm.
整体上。
On a whole.
你知道的？
You know?
这真的很难。
This this this was tough.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这很难受。
This was tough.
但这就是我们作为艺术家在这里所做的事情。
But this is what we do here as artists.
你知道，我不会总说些好听的话。
You know, we're not gonna say I'll always say the nice thing.
你觉得这是你的使命吗？
You feel like that's your purpose?
是的。
I do.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
I do.
我是个作家。
I'm a writer.
这就是我所做的。
This is what I do.
如果您刚刚加入，我们的嘉宾是歌手兼演员吉尔·斯科特。
If you're just joining us, my guest is singer and actress Jill Scott.
短暂休息后，继续我们的对话。
More of our conversation after a short break.
这真是令人耳目一新。
This is fresh air.
如今，感觉好像
These days, it feels like
新闻每小时都在变化。
the news changes every hour.
嗯，NPR 也有一个这样的播客。
Well, NPR has a podcast that does that too.
NPR News Now 每小时都会为您带来一个五分钟的全新节目，提供当天最新、最重要的新闻头条，内容清晰、基于事实且易于理解。
NPR News Now brings you a fresh five minute episode every hour of the day with the latest, most important headlines in episodes that are clear, fact based, and easy to digest.
在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听NPR News Now。
Listen to NPR News Now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
在你走之前，
Before I let you go,
我得跟你聊聊你的演艺事业。
I gotta talk to you a bit about, your acting career.
我为什么要结婚来着？
Why did I get married again?
这部影片今年晚些时候将在Netflix上线。
It's coming to Netflix later this year.
这是该系列的第三部电影。
It's the third film in the franchise.
距离原版已经将近二十年了。
It's nearly two decades after the original.
你再次饰演Sheila这个角色，她嫁给了那个简直荒唐的男人。
And you play Sheila again, the character who was married to this man who is just ridiculous.
他公开嘲笑你的体重，把你当成能拥有他简直是你的幸运。
He openly ridiculed your weight and treated you like you were lucky to have him.
你曾说过，拍摄那部原版电影是你职业生涯中最艰难的经历之一，泰勒·派瑞通过让群演日复一日地对你进行辱骂，来激发你表演中那种原始的情感。
You have said that the filming of that original was one of the hardest experiences of your career, that Tyler Perry directed that set by having extras hurl insults at you night after night to provoke that raw emotion that we see in your performance.
而现在，你又回来扮演这个角色了。
And now you're back to playing her again.
告诉我，为什么那是你职业生涯中最艰难的时刻之一。
Tell me about why it was the hardest moment and one of the hardest moments in your career.
并不是这样。
It wasn't.
并不是这样。
It wasn't.
不是的。
No.
不是的。
No.
人们把这件事夸大了很多。
People made it a lot more than what it was.
我不喜欢那样。
I did not enjoy that.
那不是我的最爱，是的。
That was not a favorite for me Yep.
在工作中被陌生人言语攻击。
To be, verbally accosted by strangers at work.
不。
No.
我不喜欢那样。
I did not enjoy that.
但在博茨瓦纳，穿着胖道具服，在109华氏度的高温下说那些台词，那才叫艰难。
But being in Botswana in a 109 degree temperature with a fat suit on saying words like, that was hard.
哦，我们来谈谈
Oh, let's talk about
这个。
this.
所以你演《珍爱》演得很投入。
So you played Precious hard.
你演过HBO剧集《第一号女侦探社》里的《珍爱》。
You played Precious in the HBO, series, the number one ladies detective agency.
是的。
I did.
你指的就是这个。
That's what you're talking about.
你去博茨瓦纳了，是的。
You traveled to Botswana Yes.
为了扮演那个角色。
To play that character.
这部剧改编自亚历山大·麦考尔·史密斯在博茨瓦纳背景下的小说。
It was based on Alexander McCall Smith's novel set in Botswana.
为了让观众了解，这个故事讲述了一位女性，在父亲去世后继承了他的遗产，创办了第一家由女性经营的侦探事务所，她极具直觉。
And just to let the audience know, the story follows this woman who after her father dies gains an inheritance of his, to open the first female run detective agency, and she is deeply intuitive.
她了解，她了解这个世界。
She knows she knows this world.
她能够融入其中，破解案件。
She's able to get into it and solve cases.
我其实想放一段视频，是你父亲刚去世时，你和朋友谈论你对人生的打算。
I actually wanna play a clip where your father has just died, and you're talking with your friend about what you want to do with your life.
你说你想要帮助人们解开谜团。
And you say you wanna help people solve mysteries.
我们来听听。
Let's listen.
我遇到的每一个男人都希望我改变些什么。
Every man I am meeting wants me to change something.
我更喜欢自己动手解决问题。
I prefer to fix things myself.
是什么让你来到卡博龙？
And what brings you to Cabo Ron?
我刚卖了我父亲的水壶。
I just sold my father's kettle.
所以我正在找城里一套不错的房子。
So I'm looking for a nice house in the city.
然后我会找间办公室，开自己的公司。
And then I'll find an office and start my own business.
那是什么生意？
And what business is that?
我要开一家侦探社。
I'm going to open a detective agency.
真的吗？
Real?
时代。
Era.
那么那个坏人最好小心点。
And then the bad man better watch out.
什么？
What?
当我告诉父亲时，他说的正是这些话。
Those are the very same words my father said to me when I told him.
那
That
那是我的客人吉尔·斯科特，她在HBO的《第一女侦探》中饰演拥有侦探事务所的普雷西斯。
was my guest Jill Scott in, the HBO's number one ladies detective agency playing Precious who owns a detective agency.
我听到了小吉尔的声音。
And I hear little baby Jill's voice.
你能听到她的声音多么轻柔。
You can hear how light it was in it.
真年轻。
So young.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
但那个口音，你是怎么把那个口音练得这么完美的？
But the accent, how did you how did you perfect that accent?
哦，他们对我进行了训练。
Oh, they worked on me.
是的。
Yeah.
当我到那里时，我意识到自己正在接受一位口音教练的指导。
Well, when I got there, I realized I was I was being tutored by a coach, a a dialect coach.
到了之后我才意识到，我的口音其实是津巴布韦的。
Got there and realized my accent was actually Zim.
根本不是正确的方言。
It wasn't even the right dialect.
完全不是正确的方言。
Wasn't the right dialect at all.
所以我必须先忘记再重新学习，当时有一群女性帮助我。
So I had to unlearn and relearn, and I had a group of women.
我只是称她们为一群年长的女性部落。
I would just call them a tribe of elder women.
如果我哪里说错了，她们就会指出，我会想：‘天哪，糟了。’
And if I got something wrong, you'd hear and I was like, oh, no.
你会逐句检查，用音标标注出来，以便理解并正确发音，我练习了非常多遍。
You know, went through every line, wrote it in, phonetics so that I could understand and say it properly, practiced so much.
这是一段难以置信的经历。
It was an incredible experience.
我带儿子去博茨瓦纳过他十三岁的生日，因为他必须在那里。
I just took my son for his thirteenth birthday to Botswana, because he had to be there.
我怀他的时候就在那里。
I was pregnant with him.
你当时也在那里。
While you were there.
她穿着臃肿的服装，在一百零九到一百一十度的高温下拍摄。
She there in a fat suit in a hundred and nine ten degree weather.
是的。
Yes.
那是一个挑战。
That was a challenge.
那真的很艰难。
That was that was tough.
真遗憾，只拍了一季。
What a shame that it was only a season.
这真是令人痛心的遗憾。
It was a crying shame.
我非常喜欢，因为人们有机会看到非洲不仅仅是战争。
I loved it because people had an opportunity to see that Africa isn't just war Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
还有饥荒。
And famine.
而且只拍了一季，因为安东尼·马涅洛去世了。
And it was only one season because Anthony Mangelo passed.
他去世了。
He passed away.
西德尼·波拉克也去世了。
Sidney Pollock passed.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我当时怀孕了。
And I was pregnant.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我拍到了怀孕七个月。
I shot up until seven months pregnancy.
然后那之后，我就对大家说：好吧， guys。
And then after that, I was like, okay, guys.
我明白了。
I got it.
所以在一些
So in some
这些剧集中，你怀孕七个月了。
of those episodes, you're seven months pregnant.
是的。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
这就是为什么在我儿子十三岁生日时，我带他去了博茨瓦纳，因为我们非裔美国人没有成年礼的传统。
Which is why for his thirteenth birthday, my son, I had to take him to Botswana because we don't have a rite of passage as, you know, African Americans.
我们称之为兄弟成人礼。
We called it a bro mitzvah.
这很不错。
That's pretty good.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
他有机会在卡拉哈里之夜的星空下睡觉、闲逛，品尝美味的食物，结识来自世界各地尤其是博茨瓦纳的人。
He had an opportunity to sleep and hang out in under the Kalahadi night, the stars, and eat delicious foods and meet people from all over the world and particularly from Botswana.
他们热情地欢迎了他。
They just welcomed him beautifully.
太棒了。
It was great.
你知道吗，吉尔，你的第一张专辑在2000年发行时，我正开始认识自己作为女性的身份。
You know, Jill, your first album came out in 2000 when I was coming into myself as a woman.
我想感谢你为这个世界所付出的一切。
And I just wanna thank you for for all of what you have put out in the world.
你让我看到了自己，这真是太美好了。
You've allowed me to see myself, and it's a beautiful thing.
不是吗？
Ain't it?
我甚至都不知道该怎么向你表达。
I can't even I don't even have the words to tell you.
我跟你说，我真的超爱这种阿姨的生活。
I'm telling you, really love this auntie life.
是的。
Yeah.
只要我能帮上忙的地方，我都乐意参与。
I really wherever I can help, I am into it.
只要我能帮上忙，特别是当我学到这一点的时候。
Wherever I can help, especially when it comes to I've learned this.
当有人向你提出要求时，你就给他们一个任务。
When somebody wants something from you, you give them a task.
如果他们能完成任务并且做得好，那就可以继续下去。
If they handle the task and do it well, then you can proceed.
但除此之外，你知道，人们总是说很多。
But other than that, you know, people talk a lot.
哦，我想做这个。
Oh, I wanna do this.
我想成为这样的人。
I wanna be this.
我想去那里。
I wanna go here.
让我看看你实际做了什么。
Let me see what you do.
你会这么做吗？
Do you do that?
因为我相信有很多年轻的艺术家和歌手来找你，因为他们想向你寻求建议。
Because I'm I'm sure you have a lot of young artists and singers who come to you because they want to they want advice from you.
这是不是
Is that what
是的。
you Yeah.
这就是我所做的。
That's what I do.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
让我看看你做了什么。
Let me see what you do.
这就是我学会如何应对的方式。
This is how I've I've learned to navigate.
你让他们做什么？
What do you have them do?
我让他们做什么就做什么。
Whatever I need them to do.
是的。
Yes.
无论是让他们学习一张专辑，还是听一张专辑，甚至有一次艾瑞莎·弗兰克林让我去给她买两个加了熟洋葱和芥末的热狗。
Whether it is to learn an album or listen to an album, whether it is Aretha Franklin sent me to get her two hot dogs with cooked onions and mustard.
你见过她。
You met her.
你告诉她你爱她。
You told her you loved her.
是的。
Yes.
然后她说了什么？
And then she said what?
去街角给我买两个加熟洋葱和芥末的热狗。
Go to the corner and get me two hot dogs with cooked onions and mustard.
我就去了。
And I went.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
我想我当时在美国拥有排名第一的专辑。
I think I had the number one album in the country at the Yes.
我去了街角，买了那些热狗，然后带了回来。
And I went to the corner and I got those hot dogs, and I brought them back.
然后我就，你知道的，只是等着。
And I, you know, just waited.
我都不觉得她吃了那些热狗。
I don't even think she ate them.
这教会了你什么？
What did that teach you?
首先，我会说要对人更好一点，但其次，你得靠自己的努力赢得尊重。
Well, I would, one, say be nicer to people, but two, you gotta earn your stripes.
然后我就想，哦，你知道的，我希望她能对我更好一点，拥抱我，告诉我一些忠告，牵着我的手安慰我一下，但事情并不是这样发生的。
Then I was like, oh, you know, I wanted her to be nicer to me, to embrace me, to tell me that you know, give me some advice and hold my hand a little bit, but that's not what happened.
好的。
Okay.
现在我某种程度上已经成了那样的人，现在我给你一个任务。
Now I'm in a now I'm I am that woman to a certain degree, and now I just have a task for you.
我想看看你会怎么做。
I wanna see what you're gonna do.
嗯。
Mhmm.
别浪费了。
Don't waste it.
别浪费我的时间。
Don't waste my time.
别浪费你的时间。
Don't waste your time.
这太宝贵了。
It's too valuable.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我喜欢这个。
And I like this.
这部分是阿姨的部分。
This is this is the auntie portion.
她稍微严厉一点。
She's a little tougher.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我喜欢这部分。
And I like that part.
这对我来说很好。
This is good for me.
如果你想要的话，对你也有好处。
It's good for you too if you want it.
当然。
Absolutely.
如果你想要的话。
If you want it.
能参与这么多人的成长，我非常感激。
I'm very grateful to be a part of so many people's maturation.
成熟没什么不好。
There's nothing wrong with being mature.
长大成熟没什么不对。
There is nothing wrong with growing up.
吉尔·斯科特，和你交谈真是非常愉快。
Jill Scott, this has been such a pleasure to talk with you.
非常感谢你抽出时间，感谢你的音乐和艺术。
Thank you so much for your time and for your music and your art.
谢谢。
Thank you.
不客气。
You're welcome.
吉尔·斯科特的新专辑名为《致可能关心的人》。
Jill Scott's new album is called To Whom This May Concern.
《新鲜空气》的执行制片人是萨姆·布里格er。
Fresh Air's executive producer is Sam Brigger.
我们的技术总监和工程师是奥德丽·本瑟姆。
Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham.
我们的访谈和评论由菲莉丝·迈尔斯、罗伯塔·谢尔洛克、安妮·玛丽·巴尔多纳多、劳伦·克林泽尔、蒙妮克·纳扎雷特、西娅·查隆纳、苏珊·雅昆迪、安娜·鲍曼和尼科·冈萨雷斯·惠斯勒制作和编辑。
Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Sherlock, Anne Marie Baldonado, Lauren Crinzel, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challoner, Susan Yakundi, Anna Baumann, and Nico Gonzalez Whistler.
我们的数字媒体制作人是莫莉·塞布·内斯珀。
Our digital media producer is Molly Seebu Nesper.
特蕾莎·马登执导了今天的节目。
Theresa Madden directed today's show.
和特里·格罗斯一起，我是托尼娅·莫斯利。
With Terry Gross, I'm Tonya Mosley.
如今，感觉好像
These days, it feels like
新闻每小时都在变化。
the news changes every hour.
嗯，NPR 也有一个做同样事情的播客。
Well, NPR has a podcast that does that too.
NPR News Now 每小时都会为您带来一个全新的五分钟节目，提供当天最新、最重要的新闻头条，内容清晰、基于事实、易于理解。
NPR News Now brings you a fresh five minute episode every hour of the day with the latest, most important headlines in episodes that are clear, fact based, and easy to digest.
请在 NPR 应用程序或您收听播客的任何平台收听 NPR News Now。
Listen to NPR news now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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