新闻问答：第7集 冷静队 vs 恐慌队

这个BBC播客在英国以外的地区由广告支持。

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside The UK.

那么，快速回顾一下夏天。

So, quick summer recap.

热浪、数据泄露、AI黑客、折叠手机，

Heat waves, data leaks, AI hacks, folding phones,

还有一种病毒终于让浣熊遇到了挑战。

and a virus finally challenged raccoon.

我觉得，这些就差不多了。

I think that, that covers it.

我是托马斯·杰曼。

I'm Thomas Germain.

我是杰丝·马多克斯，接口节目从暑假回来了。

I'm Jess Maddox, and the interface is back from its summer break.

新一季，新搭档，同样深入探讨那些塑造我们世界和生活的科技。

New season, new cohost, same deep dives into the tech that's shaping our world and our lives.

所以在人工智能消灭所有人类之前

So before AI wipes out all of humanity

据说是这样。

Allegedly.

加入

Join

我们，收听《界面》节目。

us for the interface.

在bbc.com或你收听播客的任何地方收听。

Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

你好。

Hello.

欢迎来到《新闻新闻》。

Welcome to the news news.

我是安迪·扎尔茨曼，我很高兴地宣布，我是一名完全合格的律师。

I am Andy Zaltzman, and I'm happy to announce that I am a fully qualified lawyer.

我这是在给自己留后路，万一我梦想的白宫新闻秘书职位又空出来呢。

Just positioning myself in case my dream job as White House press secretary comes up again.

我们来认识一下两队成员。

Let's meet our teams.

本周，军情五处处长发布了年度国家威胁更新报告，我们这边有“保持冷静，继续前行”队，对阵“惊慌失措，囤积耐放食品”队。

And in the week that the director general of MI5 gave the annual national threat update report, we have team keep calm and carry on against team panic wildly and stock up on non perishable foodstuffs.

冷静队这边，有约翰·托西尔和露西·波特。

On team calm, we have John Tothill and Lucy Porter.

恐慌队这边，有萨拉·巴伦，还有来自《Feet》的斯蒂芬·布什。

And on Team Panic, we have Sara Barron and from the Feet, Stephen Bush.

我们的第一个问题，是给露西和约翰的。

Our first question, this will go to Lucy and John.

这周哪位来访的领导人，在“谁的办公桌更难收拾”这场较量中，明显赢了安迪·伯纳姆？

Which visiting leader convincingly beat Andy Burnham this week in a game of who has the more difficult in tray?

弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基。

Vladimir Zelensky.

对。

Correct.

两人都穿着西装，注意到了，弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基和安迪·伯纳姆。

Both wearing suits, noticed, Volodymyr Zelensky and Andy Burnham.

是的。

Yep.

而且为他准备了热情的欢迎，给了他所有特朗普想要的东西，比如仪仗队、与国王的会面，还有一个温暖的拥抱。

And laid on a lovely welcome for him and gave him all the things that Trump wants, like a military guard and a meeting with the king and a lovely cuddle.

我觉得他使出了全套的魅力攻势。

I think he did the full charm offensive.

我觉得他可能得到了一盒软糖，一个小的帕丁顿熊玩偶。

I think he probably got a tin of fudge, a little stuffed Paddington.

但问题是，泽连斯基被特朗普狠狠羞辱了。

But it was that thing of Zelensky has been horribly abused by Trump.

所以安迪·伯纳姆就像在说，来吧，宝贝，我有一瓶伏特加。

And so Andy Burnham was like, Come on, babes, I've got a bottle of vodka.

咱们吃点冰淇淋，看看《吉尔莫女孩》吧。

Let's have some ice cream and watch the Gilmore Girls.

你可以边看边哭。

You can cry about it.

所以，是的，他受到了热烈的欢迎。

So yeah, a lovely welcome

对，为他准备的。

for him.

是啊，他还得参加一轮媒体采访，其中就有皮尔斯·摩根的专访。

Yeah, and he had to do a whole media round where he was interviewed by Piers Morgan.

幸好他还接受了《金融时报》的采访，因为如果只是泽连斯基坐下来跟皮尔斯·摩根聊，那就像丘吉尔被一个垃圾桶采访一样。

Thank God he gave an interview to the Financial Times because if it was just Volodymyr Zelensky sitting down to an interview with Piers Morgan, like Churchill being interviewed by a wheelie bin.

但是，

But,

对，他受到了仪仗队的迎接，这待遇我三十岁生日时我朋友都没给我安排上。

yes, he got met with a guard of honor, something my friends failed to organize for my thirtieth.

算了。

Never mind.

其实挺暖心的，因为安迪·伯纳姆说，我们支持你，这一点不会改变。

Well, it was quite sweet because Andy Burnham said, we are behind you, and that will not change.

这感觉像是激烈的竞争，不是吗？

It's giving heated rivalry, isn't

不是吗？

it?

不。

No.

或者听起来像是在拿他当挡箭牌。

Or it sounds like he's using him as a human shield.

然后他说，是的，我们不会让你失望的。

And he said, yeah, we're not gonna let you down.

你永远不会逃跑或抛弃我们。

You're never gonna run around and desert.

我觉得现在英国首相在唐宁街欢迎泽连斯基，反而有点让人感到亲切了。

Find it

到现在为止，他去唐宁街的次数比一般英国首相还要多得多。

oddly charming now when British prime ministers welcome Zelensky to Downing Street, a building he now at this point has been to many, many more times than the average British prime minister.

你觉得他有没有意识到这些首相其实都是不同的人，还是说这就像《神秘博士》一样？

Do you think he realizes they're all different prime ministers, or is it like doctor who?

所以他每次来都换了一个新面孔。

So he's regenerated into a different form.

那我们接着聊一个相关的话题吧。

So let's move on to a, well, a related story.

马斯克暗示美国政府可能要对什么放缓负责？

Elon Musk suggested that the US government may be responsible for what slowing down?

1920年到1933年之间的酒类销售。

Alcohol sales between 1920 and 1933.

我在托特纳姆法院路赶时间时，普通人的平均步行速度。

The average walking pace of anyone at Tottenham Court Row when I'm in a rush.

我就喜欢慢悠悠地走。

I love a dawdle.

这是我最喜欢的事情之一。

It's one of my favourite things.

我就喜欢挡那些看起来赶时间的人的路。

I love getting in the way of people who look like they're in a hurry.

我知道你从哪儿来的了。

Where I know you from.

所以这挺好的。

So it's lovely.

就是……

Just...

最好的做法是，如果你在火车站的自动扶梯上，一下扶梯就立刻停下来不动。

The best thing to do is if you're on a train at the escalator, the minute you get off the escalator, that's when you stop dead.

我觉得你可能比脱欧还更能分裂这个国家，露西。

I think you might be more responsible for dividing this country than Brexit, Lucy.

是星链吗？

Is it Starlink?

是的。

Yes.

星链本意是帮助乌克兰人避免俄罗斯的成功打击，并进行成功的打击，尽管埃隆·马斯克批评了泽连斯基，然后星链就停止工作了，哇，真是巧合。

Which is meant to help the Ukrainians avoid successful Russian strikes and conduct successful strikes, although Elon Musk criticized Zelensky, and then Starlink stopped working, which, woah, you know, what a coincidence.

那肯定是特朗普的错。

Must be Donald Trump's fault.

有人能解释一下星链和星盾是什么吗？

Can someone explain what Starlink and Star Shield are?

因为它们听起来像是你在马里奥赛车中赢到的东西。

Because they sound like things you win on Mario Kart.

嗯，星链系统是基于卫星的互联网系统，当然，它取代了旧的列宁克系统。

Well, it's it's the the satellite based Internet system, the Starlink system, of course, replaced the old Leninck system.

那么，乌克兰对俄罗斯数据中心的打击让俄罗斯人无法做什么呢？

Well, a Ukrainian strike on a Russian data center left people in Russia unable to do what?

假装自己是英国种族主义者。

Pretend to be British racists.

跟聊天机器人倾诉自己无爱的婚姻。

Tell a chatbot about their loveless marriage.

在三十岁生日那天早上，点一个倒霉的外卖员。

Order an ill fated deliverer on the morning of their thirtieth birthday.

哦。

Oh.

你

You

你是……

you are...

嗯，莎拉和约翰都挺接近的。

Well, both Sara and John are pretty close.

我给他们各加一分。

I'll give them a point each.

但基本上，它击中了一个数据中心，导致很多约会软件和外卖软件都瘫痪了。

But, basically, it it hit a data center and took down a lot of dating apps and delivery food apps.

我觉得特别有意思的是，这感觉就像是在针对单身人士。

And what I thought was so interesting about that is it really feels like it's targeting single people.

看到那么多不同的名字挺有意思的。

It was interesting to see all the different names.

比如Yandex，听起来像一种运动服面料，它就像是他们的Uber。

So Yandex, which sounds like a sort of sportswear material, that was like their Uber.

它什么都干。

That does sort of a lot of stuff.

然后……

And then...

但那个约会网站叫Twinbee，听起来挺小众的。

But the dating site was called Twinbee, which seems quite niche.

从这种战争的角度来看，二十一世纪的社会能承受第一次约会时点不了披萨外卖吗，斯蒂芬？

In terms of that side of warfare, can a twenty first century society withstand not being able to order a pizza delivery on a first date, Stephen?

这确实触及了当今文明的核心问题，不是吗？

And this is getting to the very heart of civilization these days, isn't it?

嗯，其实我很久没有第一次约会了。

Well, it's it's actually been some time since I went on a first date.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

不是……

Not...

哦。

Oh.

这句话有两种理解方式，我真不敢相信大家一致认为有个“R”，因为我已经结婚了。

There are two possible reads of that, and I cannot believe that that the uniform assumption there was an r because I'm married.

全部

All

这是在周末宣布停火协议之后发生的。

this followed the announcement of a ceasefire deal last weekend.

那个停火协议有什么不寻常的地方？

What made that ceasefire deal unusual?

它实际上并不存在。

It didn't technically exist.

对。

Yes.

在任何方面

At any

我喜欢在不告诉俄罗斯或乌克兰的情况下宣布停火。

I love announcing a ceasefire without telling Russia or Ukraine.

顺便说一句，我想宣布我现在和乔治·克鲁尼订婚了。

I, on a separate note, would like to announce that I am now engaged to George Clooney.

他不知道，他的妻子也不知道，我丈夫可能也会介意，但就是那种大胆的劲儿，直接说，对，对，对，搞定了，解决了，没问题。

I mean, he doesn't know nor does his wife or my husband might be bothered, but yeah, the sheer chutzpah to just go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, done that, sorted that, that's fine.

然后那个柴油协议，对乌克兰来说简直是可怕的背叛。

And then the diesel deal, horrific betrayal of Ukraine.

而且数量少得可怜。

And it's a pathetic amount.

所以唐纳德·特朗普基本上是为了保住自己的政治地位，说我们要从俄罗斯买柴油。

So Donald Trump basically to save his own political skin said, we're to get diesel from Russia.

我们马上要拿到30万吨……

We're immediately going to get 300,000 tonnes of...

我觉得他特别得意，因为他刚好把加油泵停在30万这个数字上。

Which I think he was just chuffed because he'd managed to get the pump to stop on exactly 300,000.

他就像在说，搞定。

He's like, Get it.

可那也就够用四天左右。

And it's like four days worth or something.

就为了这个，他决定，哦对，那他们现在就不能攻击俄罗斯的炼油厂或基础设施了。

And for that, he decided, Oh yeah, so they're now not allowed to attack any Russian refineries or infrastructure.

这……

It's...

这太丢人了，因为乌克兰确实停火了，也遵守了停火协议，但俄罗斯没有。

It's shameful because Ukraine did stop, did honor the ceasefire, and Russia didn't.

这太不像话了。

It was appalling.

然后这个周四早上，俄罗斯指责乌克兰炸了一个炼油厂，你心里就想，等等，这不是明摆着的事吗，还用你说？

And then this Thursday morning, Russia accused Ukraine of blowing up an oil refinery, and you kind of think, Wait, no shit, Sherlock.

你觉得还能是谁？

Who'd you think it was?

不过幸好，因为我周末宿醉挺厉害的，我确实……

But luckily, because I was quite hungover on the weekend, I did...

我还挺感谢这个澄清的，因为我还想，天哪，

I was grateful for the clarification because I thought, oh, god.

不会是我干的吧？

Was it me?

就像，那是我干的吗？我炸了俄罗斯的炼油厂。

Like, is that what I did last I blew up a Russian oil refinery.

我能说句话吗？

Can I just say something in Yes?

我不喜欢被逼到这种角落，但我想为我的国家说句话。

I don't enjoy being, like, put in this corner, but I just wanna say something in defense of my country.

好。

Okay.

对。

Yep.

我们爱石油。

We love oil.

我们就是爱石油，每个人都有自己的怪癖。

We just love oil, and people have their weird things.

所以我们都有自己爱好的怪东西。

So we all have weird things that we love.

而且我们就是喜欢石油。

And we love oil.

你喜欢加里·巴洛。

You love Gary Barlow.

就像，每个国家都有一些人们特别着迷的奇怪东西。

Like, there's just weird stuff in countries that people get into.

但我觉得我们不会花大价钱去把加里·巴洛赎回来。

But I don't think we'd pay a lot of money to release Gary Barlow from

嗯，你应该这么做。

Well, you should.

所以，是的，弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基这周去了伦敦，访问了英国，并且会见了这个国家三位实际上的国家元首：国王、首相，还有皮尔斯·摩根。

So, yes, Vladimir Zelensky has been to London, visited The UK this week, and met this country's three de facto heads of state, the king, the prime minister, and Piers Morgan.

泽连斯基说特朗普站在了历史的错误一边，这显示出一种相当迷人但天真的信念，认为将来还会有历史学家存在。

Zelensky said that Trump is on the wrong side of history, which is displaying a rather charming, if naive, faith that there will be any historians in the future.

至于特朗普背叛盟友这件事，我想我们只能说，他成功把那些被拍到说种族主义言论的改革党候选人踢出局，这倒是本周最不让人意外的新闻了，约翰。

And in terms of Trump betraying an ally, I guess we just gotta say well done to him for knocking reform candidates filmed saying racist things off the top of the least surprising news story of the week, John.

那一轮结束时，双方各得六分。

At the end of that round, it's six points all.

现在我们来看另一条英国新闻。

Let's move to, another UK story now.

军情五处处长本周发布了年度报告，内容是什么？

The director general of MI five released the annual report into what this week?

谁上了圣诞老人的淘气名单？

Who's on Santa's naughty list?

2026年最适合招募线人的50张公园长椅。

The 50 best park benches for recruiting an informant in 2026.

是不是军情五处最新的流媒体节目计划？他们打算转向YouTube，而且军情三处现在只做数字内容了。

Is it MI5's latest slate of streaming programming that what they're gonna do is they're gonna pivot to YouTube and they're going to get MI3 is going to go digital only now.

还有其他建议吗？

Any other suggestions?

这份年度报告是关于什么的？

What's the report about, the annual report?

这份报告涉及各种恐怖主义和安全威胁，我们

It's into the various terror and security threats we

用来参考。

use.

没错。

Correct.

那谁还保持在第一名的位置呢？

And who has retained their place at number one?

官方头号威胁。

Aggressor number one official.

哦，对，就是俄罗斯。

Oh, yeah, which is Russia.

是的。

Yes.

还是它，我觉得这听起来太顺理成章了，对吧？

Still, which is, I think that sounds too good, doesn't it?

第一侵略者。

Aggressor number one.

不，俄罗斯仍然是第一。

No, Russia's still number one.

俄罗斯一直在干涉各种事务。

Russia have been interfering in all kinds of things.

人工智能是另一个方面。

AI is another one.

所以肯·麦卡勒姆，就是那个人，他在伦敦的一次演讲中告诉了我们这一切，他每年都会做一次这样的演讲，这看起来不太像间谍。

So Ken McCallum, who is the man in question, he told us all this in a speech in London that he gives every year, which doesn't seem very spy.

确实不太像。

No, not really.

对吧？

Does it?

站起来做个演讲。

Get up and do a speech.

而且，他看起来像个英语老师。

And also, looks like a sort of English teacher.

他有点那种典型的英国白人新教徒风格，苏格兰人……

He's quite a wasp ish Scottish...

他看起来像个正经版的迈克尔·戈夫。

He looks like a sort of sober Michael Gove.

他还说，我们的对手不只是想搞乱我们的基础设施，他们还想操纵什么？

He also said, our adversaries are not trying to mess with our infrastructure, but they are also trying to manipulate what?

理查德·E·格兰特，逼他承认自己是叛徒。

Richard e Grant into admitting he's a traitor.

他们是在操纵欧洲歌唱大赛吗？

Are they manipulating Eurovision?

嗯，你别说，他们真干得出来。

Well, you wouldn't put it past them, they are.

这是真的，

It's genuine,

虽然这不是真的。

even though it's not real.

刚才真的很生气。

Felt so angry just then.

本来就不喜欢俄罗斯人的所作所为，但这真的让我忍无可忍了。

Didn't love what the Russians were doing already, but that's really sent me over the edge.

够了就是够了。

Enough's enough.

因为之前有传言说他们显然在操纵脱欧，伯纳姆说，你觉得有政客可能被俄罗斯的钱影响了吗，猜猜看。

Because there was some talk that they were manipulating Brexit obviously, and Burnham said, You think there are politicians who are probably influenced by Russian money, guess.

我不知道，可能是利兹·特拉斯？

I don't know, Liz Truss maybe?

因为她……

Because she...

她总是戴着那顶大毛帽子，不是吗？

Well, she always wore that big furry hat, didn't she?

那显然不是为了保暖才戴的，对吧？

Clearly wasn't there to keep her brain warm, was it?

这是我们的感受吗？

Is it how we feel?

是的。

Yes.

就是我们的感受。

How we feel.

斯蒂芬，你担心我们的情绪会被莫斯科操控吗？

Does this worry you, Stephen, that our emotions could be manipulated by Moscow?

作为记者，我觉得这是个职责划分的问题。

Mean, as a journalist, I I feel it's a demarcation issue.

那是我们的工作。

That's our job.

而且，是的，我觉得我们在这方面做得还不错，如果让我自己说的话。

And, yeah, I think we've we've been doing a pretty good job of it, if I say so myself.

看到俄罗斯人插手进来，真的让我很不爽。

And to see the Russians muscling in on it, well, upsets me.

现在对八卦小报来说尤其艰难，我觉得弗拉基米尔·普京应该滚远点。

It's a hard time, particularly for the tabloids, and I think Vladimir Putin should butt out.

现在安迪·伯纳姆承诺要进行严肃对话，是关于什么的？

Now Andy Burnham has promised serious dialogue about what?

哦，是桶形牛仔裤吗？

Oh, is it barrel jeans?

因为我就是……

Because I just...

我就是觉得那裤子不适合任何人穿。

I just don't think they suit anyone.

看起来像得了佝偻病似的。

Look like you've got rickets.

是不是要严肃讨论一下，我妈妈每天能给我发多少次狗弹钢琴的视频，还问这是不是AI？

Is it a serious dialogue on how many times per day my mom can send me a video of a dog playing the piano and ask, is this AI?

我……

I...

界限在哪里？

What is the cutoff?

我比我丈夫年轻，但我们都在50岁的两边。

I'm younger than my husband, but we're on the opposite sides of 50.

他得跟我解释哪些是AI做的。

And he has to explain to me when stuff is AI.

我真的就是不知道。

I genuinely somehow don't know.

我在想，这是不是总是跟年龄有关？

And I'm wondering if that's like, is it always about how young you are?

还是说，还有其他因素决定你能不能分辨出什么是AI？

Or is there some other factor that comes in to how you can be someone who knows what is AI?

看你有多笨？

How stupid you are?

你说得对，其实我妈给我发这些东西的时候，确实有一种很可爱的天真劲儿。

You are right, actually, because there there is a charming naivety to my mom sending me this stuff.

你看，这只狗和这只猫是朋友，它们还想一起开个小店呢。

Know, look, this dog and cat are friends and they want a small business together.

那真是太美好了。

That is so nice.

我觉得我确实是这样。

I think I do.

真希望我

Wish I

也能那样。

could be like that.

给别人发

Send people

东西，结果那是AI做的，而我完全没看出来。

stuff and then it's AI and I genuinely didn't know.

太丢人了。

Humiliating.

那是我最喜欢的事情之一，就是

That was one of my favorite things was

那个军情五处的人说，如果AI落入坏人手里会很危险。

the MI five guy said that it would be dangerous if AI falls into the wrong hands.

我当时就想，嗯，我已经见识过了。

And I was like, well, I've seen it.

反正那些人的手本来就不对劲。

The hands are wrong anyway.

我只知道这一种情况。

That's the only way I know.

现在正经的对话是什么？

Now what's the serious dialogue?

哦，这是欧洲，对吧？

Oh, this was Europe, wasn't it?

对。

Yes.

这次是关于英国与欧盟的关系，下个月就要开重置峰会了。

This is about UK's relationship with the EU ahead of a reset summit next month.

斯蒂芬，这……

Stephen, what...

就是说，怎么……

Mean, how...

从政治角度看，脱欧这事儿就像一块没消化、没人想要的烤肉串，又回来了。

Kind of politically, this Brexit seems to be coming back like the undigested, unwanted kebab that it is.

哇，这比喻真形象。

Wow, what a word picture.

对，所以从大局来看，安迪·伯纳姆想跟欧洲走得更近，但他又不想做任何可能得罪人的事，比如遵守不是我们定的规则，或者恢复人员自由流动。

Yeah, so the big picture politics of this is that Andy Burnham would like to get closer to Europe, but he also doesn't want to do anything which might upset anyone, like following any rules we don't set, free movement of people coming back.

所以实际上这到底意味着什么还不完全清楚，但这已经在保守党内引起了不少紧张，因为他们特别想赢回那些成功、靠自己打拼的年轻专业人士，而这些人大体上非常讨厌脱欧，觉得这是个坏主意。

And so it's not wholly clear what this will mean in practice, but it has caused a particular amount of stress in the Tory party because they desperately want to win back young professionals who are successful and made something for themselves, who, on the whole, really, really hate Brexit and think it's a bad idea.

所以你能看到，每次你跟保守党议员聊起这个，他们就像在说，好吧，听着，保持冷静。

So you can kind of see how whenever you speak to a Conservative MP about it, they're a bit like someone going, Okay, look, just stay calm.

然后过了大概五分钟，他们就说，其实一切都挺好的，各位。

And then after about five minutes ago, it worked out fine, guys.

实际上，没事的。

Actually, it's it's okay.

我们不应该去拆解它。

We we shouldn't unpick it.

但是，是的，所以它又回来了。

But, yeah, so it's back.

我们是不是都很兴奋？

Aren't we all excited?

谁知道还会推出多少播客呢？

Who knows how many more podcasts will be launched?

听着，如果我们真的要再次严肃地讨论这个，能不能答应彼此，这次不会像上次那样严肃？

Listen, if we do have a serious dialogue about it again, can we please just promise each other it won't be as serious as the last serious dialogue we had about it?

可以严肃，但能不能别严肃到我爸和我一提起共同渔业政策就想互相掐死对方？

It can be serious, but can it not be so serious that my dad and I want to murder each other if someone brings up the common fisheries policy?

你就冷静点

You'll just chill out

别太较真。

about it.

我们就多安排几辆公交车。

We'll just have more buses.

就通过公交车来表达吧。

Just do it all via the medium of bus.

其实你不被允许直接谈论这件事。

You're not actually allowed to talk about it.

你得买辆公交车，把你想法写在车身上。

Have to buy a bus and put what you think on the side of it.

那挺好的。

That's nice.

到时候你就信了，谁的车最好谁就赢。

Where you'll just believe it's who's got the best bus.

我觉得咱们干脆就当这事儿是鲍比·尤因那样，重新来过。

I think we should just agree to Bobby Ewing it.

我就是觉得咱们应该说，你看，就像电视剧里剧情没发展好时，咱们就说，算了，忘了它，按重置键。

I just think we should just say, look, you know how when something hasn't worked out in a TV show, we say, okay, look, forget it, reset button.

咱们就一致认为，戴维·卡梅伦从唐宁街出来，说，各位，我做了个特别可怕的梦。

We should just agree that David Cameron will come out of Downing Street, and guys, I had the most horrible dream.

这样对政界所有人都好，因为保守党又能执政了。

And it works out for everyone in politics, because the Conservatives get to be in government again.

他们可以重来一次，而我们其他人就能把过去十年当没发生过。

They can get to have a do over, and the rest of us can just forget that the last ten years happened.

对，我觉得……

And, yeah, I think...

所以这是双赢。

So there's a win win there.

我们还能留在欧盟，他们就会说，哦，对啊。

We get to be in the EU, they get to be like, oh, yeah.

莉兹·特拉斯，

Liz Truss,

她是谁来着？

who was

她是谁？

she?

太离谱了。

Too much cheese.

没有疫情。

We had no pandemic.

我的膝盖还能好好的。

My knees would still work.

英格兰还能保住灰烬杯。

England would still hold the ashes.

我觉得我们都同意。

I think we're all on board.

要是安迪·伯纳姆能像唐纳德·特朗普那样搞紧急能源停火，直接从唐宁街出来说‘我们在欧洲’，那就好了。

It'd be nice if Andy Burnham was anything like Donald Trump with his emergency energy ceasefire, he could just come out of Downing Street and say, we are in Europe.

而且这对大家都好，因为那些当时反对的人，这事儿就不会发生。

And I I it would work for everyone because, you know, those who were against it at the time, it wouldn't have happened.

那些当时支持的人，又能把什么事都怪到欧洲头上，我觉得他们这十年可想念这个了。

Those who were in favor of it at time would be able to blame Europe for everything again, which I think they've really missed over the last ten years.

我觉得这真的会……

I think it's gonna really...

我觉得别的先不说，我们国家的脱欧历程再次印证了那句古老的英国谚语：跳下飞机之前，先织好你的降落伞。

I think if nothing else, our national Brexit journey has reconfirmed the wisdom of the ancient British saying, start knitting your parachute before you jump out of the aeroplane.

在我们英国政治环节结束时，比分是九比八，莎拉和斯蒂芬领先，约翰和露西落后。

At the end of our UK politics round, it's nine to Sara and Stephen, eight to John and Lucy.

哦，迈克。

Oh, Mike.

好，快速回顾一下夏天。

So, quick summer recap.

热浪、数据泄露、AI黑客攻击、折叠手机，

Heat waves, data leaks, AI hacks, folding phones,

还有杀毒软件终于挑战了浣熊。

and antivirus finally challenged raccoon.

对，我觉得差不多就这些了。

Yeah, think that, covers it.

我是托马斯·杰曼。

I'm Thomas Germain.

我是杰斯·马多克斯，The Interface节目从暑假回来了。

I'm Jess Maddox, and the interface is back from its summer break.

新一季，新搭档，同样深入探讨那些塑造我们世界和生活的科技。

New season, new cohost, same deep dives into the tech that's shaping our world and our lives.

所以在AI消灭所有

So before AI wipes out all

消灭全人类——据说是这样。

of humanity Allegedly.

欢迎收听《界面》节目。

Join us for the interface.

可以在bbc.com或任何你收听播客的平台收听。

Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

现在，我们给嘉宾们准备了一个特别的挑战。

We have a special challenge for our panel now.

我会给他们三样东西，他们需要按价值从低到高排列，也就是从最便宜到最贵。

I'm going to give them three things, and they have to put them in ascending order of value from cheapest to most expensive.

有点像古董路演里菲奥娜·布鲁斯的《好、更好、最好》环节。

A bit like Fiona Bruce's Good Better Best on Antiques Roadshow.

哪样最不值钱？

Which is worth the least?

哪样排在中间？

Which is in the middle?

那哪个最贵呢？

And which is the most expensive?

所以这三样东西是：约会软件上的一次火热约会、一整条廉价超市连锁店，还有机场停车五分钟。

So the three things are a hot hookup with a dating app, an entire chain of budget superstores, and five minutes parking at an airport.

我觉得我知道其中一样，就是Poundland被以一英镑的价格卖掉了。

I think I know one bit of this, which is the Poundland was sold for a pound.

对。

Yes.

这多有意思，对吧？

Which is so lovely, isn't it?

Poundland以一英镑成交，这个拼图游戏将来会换成靴子拼图。

Poundland went for a pound jigsaw is going to be exchanged for a jigsaw boots.

你还能得到一双靴子。

You're going get some boots.

但我觉得Poundland可能挺便宜的，因为我知道现在机场停车五分钟大概要586英镑，尤其是你要去见一个不喜欢的人时，这更让人恼火。

But so I think Poundland is probably quite low because I know five minutes parking at an airport costs about £586 at the minute, which is especially galling if you're going to meet someone you don't like.

所以我在收集那个叔叔，是吗？

So collecting that uncle, am I?

好的，太好了。

All right, great.

这58英镑花得值。

That's £58 well spent.

所以我觉得一镑店，我选廉价超市那个，然后是停车，再然后是另一个

So I think pound land, I'm going to go budget thing, then parking and And then the other

那个，约会软件？

one, dating app?

嗯，Bumble被卖了。

Well, Bumble was sold.

哦。

Oh.

那个约会...

The dating...

那个约会软件就是那个吗？

Is that what the dating was?

是的。

Yes.

就是那个约会软件。

The dating app.

Bumble特别的地方在于，必须由女性主动发起互动。

The thing about Bumble that was special was that women had to instigate the interaction.

而且，虽然我不太理解原因，他们现在好像在重新品牌，但他们正把那个特别的功能去掉，只是为了想办法让人们重新在网上约会，因为现在网上约会已经变得太饱和、太糟糕了，所以人们最终都转向线下见面了。

And for reasons that I barely understand, they're, like, rebranding now, but they're taking that one special feature away from it just as a way of trying to get people dating online because it's gotten so saturated and gross that now people are ultimately meeting up in real life.

是这样吗？

Does this track?

不是。

No.

我在问安迪。

I'm asking Andy.

你们谁能告诉我，约会软件Bumble打算以多少钱被收购？

Can any of you tell me how much the dating app Bumble is set to be bought for?

我觉得是一大笔钱。

I feel like it was a lot.

确实是一大笔钱。

It was a lot, yeah.

这个约会软件价值很高，对吧？

The dating app is a huge amount of money, right?

没错，5600万美元。

Yep, dollars 56,000,000.

就这个数。

That.

所以这是第二贵，第一贵的是机场那个。

So that's number two, and number one is the airport thing.

然后机场是5980万美元。

And then the airport is $59,800,000.

好吧，这个我承认。

Well, I'll give you that.

所以去年那个英镑品牌以一英镑的价格卖掉了。

So pound number sold for a pound last year.

可能很快又要以一英镑的价格转手了。

It could be changing hands for a pound again soon.

在伦敦城市机场的下客区停五分钟要花8英镑，而约会应用Bumble即将被一家公司以9.8亿英镑收购。

Five minutes in the drop off zone at London City Airport costs £8, and the dating app Bumble is set to be bought for £980,000,000 by a company

天哪。

Oh my god.

这家公司叫伊萨卡控股。

Called Ithaca Holdings.

这比2021年估计的140亿美元市值低了不少。

That's down from its estimated market value in 2021 of $14,000,000,000.

所以那是……

So that's...