难缠的女性？还是难缠的体系？| 2026年的女性愤怒与羞耻

几个世纪以来，女性一直被称作难以相处。

Women have been called difficult for centuries.

只要一步走错，你就会被说成难以相处。

One misstep and you'll be called difficult.

当你为不公发声时，你被说成难以相处；当你不顺从时，你被说成难以相处；当你无法符合社会期待的完美女性形象时，你也被说成难以相处。

Difficult when you stand up for injustices, difficult when you don't comply, difficult when you don't conform to this perfect woman that you're expected to uphold within society.

一个顺从、温顺、随波逐流、对一切都点头同意的女性。

A subservient, submissive woman who goes with the flow, agrees to everything.

这对一个 actively 压迫她的父权制度来说多么方便。

How convenient to a patriarchal system that is actively oppressing her.

在2026年做一个女人，却不会感到一种难以估量、无法逾越的愤怒，是很难的。

It's difficult to be a woman in 2026 without feeling an immeasurable, insurmountable amount of rage.

今天我想谈谈这一点。

And I want to talk about it today.

我想将这种愤怒置于长期压迫与沉默的历史背景中来理解。

I want to contextualize that rage in a history of oppression and silencing.

但我也想谈谈这种体验，因为我认为我们必须清醒地认识到这种感受，必须消除女性因愤怒和愤怒而产生的羞耻感——我们长期以来被教导说，愤怒不是我们被允许感受的情绪，社会也不会接受我们拥有这种情绪。

But also, I want to just talk about that experience because I think that we need to be very conscious of what this feeling is and we need to destigmatize the shame that comes with anger and rage as women who have been taught for so long that rage is not an emotion that we are allowed to feel and that society will accept us for feeling.

我们内心积压了太多因愤怒而产生的羞耻感，因被称作‘难搞’、‘专横’的女性而感到羞耻。

And we internalize so many feelings of shame about being angry, about being called the difficult bossy woman.

最近媒体上出现的太多事情，都激起了这些挫败感。

And there has just been too much in the media recently that has brought out these frustrations.

我甚至认为，在《爱泼斯坦文件》发布以及众多经济体所展现的极其有限的正义这一背景下。

And I actually think I actually think that in this context of the release of The Epstein Files and the limited amount of justice that is being shown by so many economies.

我甚至忍不住笑出来，因为这太荒谬了。

I'm not even I'm laughing because it's ridiculous.

我笑是因为这一切的荒诞可笑。

I'm laughing because of the absurdity of it all.

对吧？

Right?

这并不好笑。

It's not funny.

归根结底，这并不好笑，对吧？

It's not funny at the end of the day, is it?

这是很严肃的。

It's serious.

我认为，对许多女性来说，这导致了一种彻底的麻木感，因为感觉一切都石沉大海。

I think that this is translating for many women to a complete and utter numbness because it feels like everything is just falling on deaf ears.

感觉一切都摆在明面上。

It feels like everything is everything is out there.

所有这些信息都摆在眼前，却什么都没有发生。

All this information is out there, and yet nothing is happening.

我认为，你可以将《埃普斯坦文件》中所发生的一切，类比到我们作为女性在资本主义父权制下的许多其他生活层面和经历中。

And I think that you can translate this experience of what's going on in The Epstein Files to so many other facets of our life and experience as women under capitalist patriarchy.

我们这里几乎每个人都拥有切身经历。

We all pretty much here have lived experience.

有时候，虽然我确实非常推崇学术、证据、逻辑和理性，但我完全清楚它们的缺陷与局限。

Sometimes, while I am a real I'm a real sucker for academia and evidence and logic and rationality, I am completely aware of its flaws and its shortcomings.

我非常清楚，证据、关于证据的规则以及逻辑的规则，一直被优先于轶事证据、女性的经历、切身经验以及直觉，而这些实际上可能是这些对话中非常重要的一部分。

I am hyper aware of the ways in which evidence, rules around evidence, and rules around logic have been, prioritized over anecdotal evidence, women's experiences, over lived experiences, and over vibes, which can actually genuinely be very, very, very important parts of these conversations.

说了这么多，我想进入这个话题。

So with all that being said, I want to get into this.

我想深入探讨这个对话。

I want to get into this conversation.

我认为深入探讨这个对话非常重要。

I think it's really important to get into this conversation.

我认为我们需要为这种愤怒、这种怒火、这种狂暴留出空间，弄清楚该如何将它转化为某种有建设性的东西，那会是什么样子，以及我们该如何从这里继续前进。

I think that we need to hold space for this rage, this anger, this fury, and figure out how on earth we channel that into something productive, what that looks like, and how we move forward from here.

因为咱们来聊聊吧。

Because let's chat.

咱们闲聊一下吧。

Let's chitchat.

喝杯咖啡，泡杯茶，戴上耳机，散个步。

Get a coffee, get a tea, put your headphones on, go for a little walk.

我们马上进入正题。

We're gonna get right into it.

我为什么这么兴奋？

Why am I so excited?

我一直在想，哇，我终于能谈谈女性的愤怒了。

Like, I've been like I'm like, I get to talk about female rage.

这是一种应对机制，承认这一点很重要。

This is a coping mechanism, and it's important to acknowledge that.

总之，各位，2026年作为一个女人，带着对 Epstein 文件、对这一切、对所有这些的清醒认知活着，真的太难了。

Anyway, guys, it's just purely really difficult to exist as a woman in 2026 with the awareness of The Epstein Files, the awareness of it all the awareness of it all.

事实上，作为一个女人。

Actually, to be a woman.

事实上，我在 Pinterest 上看到的一句话深深启发了这期节目，据我所知，这句话出自莉迪亚·朱科维奇的书，名叫《致我的愤怒与进化》。

And in fact, a quote that really sparked this episode that I found on Pinterest, but it is from Lydia Juuknovich's book, I believe, called Letter to My Rage and Evolution.

她说：我的愤怒是我的母亲的，还是她母亲的，抑或是她自己的？这是一种传承下来的生物吗？

She says, or was my rage my mother's or her mother's or hers an inherited creature?

我认为这反映了我们与众多女性、我们的祖先之间一种与生俱来的体验和理解——生活在资本主义父权制下的经历，对于许多祖先、我们较近的几代人，甚至在某些文化与社群中的祖父母或父母而言，他们一直被视为二等公民。

And I think it just speaks to this innate experience, this innate understanding that we have with so many women with our ancestors literally of the experience of living under capitalist patriarchy and of the experience of for a lot of our ancestors, a lot of our fairly recent generations, a lot of our grandparents, even parents in certain cultures and communities, have been second class citizens.

而且，我不禁要说，在美国，堕胎权正在被剥夺，田纳西州甚至曾讨论过对堕胎者处以死刑的可能性。

And, I mean, dare I say, over in The United States where abortion rights are being stripped away, where there has been discussion in Tennessee about the potential death penalty for for having an abortion.

我要补充说明的是，这项法案并未通过，但它在2026年刚刚被提出过。

I will caveat that this was not passed as a bill, but it was proposed as a bill recently in the year 2026.

我认为，人们对控制、身体自主权和独立性的丧失感到极度恐惧。

I think there is a huge fear around what is happening around control, around bodily autonomy, around independence.

对许多人来说，他们正在退缩。

And for many people, they are retreating.

对许多人来说，我们感到麻木。

For many people, we feel numb.

对许多人来说，我们正在爆发。

For many people, we are lashing out.

对许多人来说，这种情绪以各种不同的方式表现出来，我觉得这一切都令人无比困惑。

For many people, this is manifesting in so many different ways, and I feel like it is just so confusing.

这太令人困惑了。

It's so confusing.

我们该怎么做？

What are we supposed to do?

我们该如何应对和处理这些情绪？

What are we supposed to how are we supposed to address and handle these feelings?

我认为，用一个绝佳的，或者说极糟的方式来总结这一点，就是至少有三百万份文件被公开，详细记录了对未成年人的虐待，揭示了富人和权贵如何以仿佛凌驾于法律之上的方式在这个世界中活动。

And I think that just like a great way of summing it up or a terrible way of summing it up really was that of the 3,000,000 documents at least that have been released detailing abuse of minors, detailing twisted insight into the ways in which the rich and powerful literally move throughout this world as if they're above the law.

他们在这个世界中行动，仿佛权力和政治只是一盘棋局，而女性和年轻人根本不是人。

They move throughout this world as if power and politics is purely a game of chess and as if women and young people are not even human.

正义未能实现，恰恰说明了这些制度是为谁服务的，为谁掩盖真相，它们如何被设计来维持现有的权力体系，以及如何持续压制那些遭受压迫性系统和网络伤害的人的声音。

The fact that justice is not occurring just shows who these systems are designed to protect and who then designed to cover up, how they are designed to maintain current and existing systems of power and how they continue to silence the voices of those who are being harmed by oppressive systems and networks.

关于 Epstein 文件，我读到的最有力的一点是，多年来，受害者们一直在发声揭露这一切。

And one of the most powerful things that I read in relation to The Epstein Files is, of course, that for years, years and years and years, victims have been speaking out about this.

这并不是凭空出现的事情。

This hasn't been something that has come out of nowhere.

但为什么一个已故男子及其盟友的言辞和邮件，如今比那些几十年来一直发声的受害者更受重视呢？

But how is it that the words and emails of a dead man and his allies are being taken more seriously right now than victims who have been speaking up about this literally for decades.

我说的‘更受重视’，只是稍微多一点而已。

And by more seriously, I only mean fractionally.

因为除了英国之外，西方世界几乎看不到任何行动。

Because aside from The United Kingdom, we're barely seeing anything happen across the Western world.

尤其是，我们在美国几乎看不到任何进展。

And notably, we're seeing essentially nothing happen happen in The United States.

美国才是真正能够实现正义的地方，才是真正能看到改变发生的地方。

The United States is really the only place where justice can be served there, where we can actually see something change.

但我们看到了吗？

But are we seeing that?

绝对没有。

Absolutely not.

当你的总统深陷其中时，你怎么可能做到呢？

How can you when your president is so deeply involved?

对许多女性来说，女性的愤怒是我们与生俱来的。

For many women, female rage has been something we have been born into.

我们体验过这种愤怒，无论是源于对压迫的意识，还是源于身体上的种种困难。

We have experienced this rage, whether it be through an awareness of oppression or whether it even be through, you know, the difficulties with our bodies.

有一句《废柴女神》中的台词很好地概括了这个概念，它是这样说的。

There's this quote from Fleabag which sums up this concept so well, and it starts out like this.

女性生来就带着痛苦。

Women are born with pain built in.

这是我们的生理宿命。

It's our physical destiny.

经期疼痛、乳房胀痛、分娩之痛。

Period pain, sore boobs, childbirth.

我们一生都承载着这些痛苦。

We carry it within ourselves throughout our lives.

而男性不会。

Men don't.

他们得去主动寻找。

They have to seek it out.

他们创造了各种神灵和恶魔，好让自己对某些事感到内疚，而我们自己本来就非常擅长这一点。

They invent all these gods and demons so they can feel guilty about things, which is something we do very well on our own.

作为女性，我们经历着如此多的痛苦。

We go through such pain as women.

但对许多人来说，就连这种痛苦也让人感到压抑。

And even that for many feels oppressive.

对许多人而言，这种痛苦本身就足以让人对一个不认真对待我们痛苦的世界感到沮丧。

Even that for many is, like, reason enough to feel frustrated by a world that does not take our pain seriously.

所以我认为这只是一个有趣的旁注，因为我在这里更想谈论的是对痛苦的系统性纵容。

And so I think that's just, an interesting side note because what I'm talking about more so here is the systemic enabling of pain.

但我认为这确实引出一个值得讨论的问题：显然，许多患有子宫内膜异位症、多囊卵巢综合征的女性，她们的健康问题从未被认真对待。

But I think there's definitely a conversation in that in the fact that obviously so many people who experience endometriosis, PCOS, like, women's health is not taken seriously.

女性的痛苦从未被认真对待。

Women's pain is not taken seriously.

这本身就是一个值得探讨的话题。

And that's a conversation in itself.

它融入了关于父权制、痛苦和压迫的更广泛讨论中。

It fits into this broader conversation about patriarchy, about pain, about oppression.

当然，如果我们不讨论社会中各种边缘化身份的交叉性，就无法进行这场对话。

And, of course, we can't have this conversation without also discussing the various intersections of marginality that you can experience within our society.

如果不谈及有色人种、有色人种女性、身患残疾的女性以及跨性别女性的具体经历，我们就无法进行这场对话。

You can't have this conversation without talking about the specific experiences of people of color, of women of color, of women who exist with disabilities, of transgender women.

在这个社会中，作为女性意味着什么，有着无数种不同的表现形式。

There are so many different manifestations of what it means to be a woman under this society.

非常重要的是，不要被某一种特定的经历所主导。

It's very important to not get carried away with one specific experience.

让我们回到这场对话的核心，我认为可以安全地说，在2026年，女性是愤怒的。

To take us back to the center of this conversation, I think it's safe to say that in 2026, women are angry.

女性是愤怒的。

Women are angry.

我认为，这个评论本身非常值得我们静下心来好好体会。

And I think that that comment in itself is really important to sit with.

我最近在Instagram上发了一条帖子，谈到这种极度愤怒却明知我们本该愤怒、而内心却一片麻木的感受。

I put up an Instagram post recently about this experience of feeling so angry and knowing that we should feel angry, but all we feel is numb.

那条帖子的背景是我正在讨论我们如何不断看到关于爱泼斯坦文件的信息，接着又看到唐纳德·特朗普说，我们应该放下爱泼斯坦文件。

The context of that post was I was sort of talking about the ways in which we're seeing all this information about the Epstein files, and then we're seeing Donald Trump say, we should move on from the Epstein files.

就在同一滑动中，我们看到塔利班正在阿富汗彻底剥夺女性与家庭暴力相关的权利。

Like, in a single scroll, we're seeing the ways in which women's rights in relation to domestic violence are being completely stripped away in Afghanistan by the Taliban.

与此同时，我们看到‘男性空间’所宣扬的语言正在将女性去人性化，也看到新的美容产品如何让我们感到自卑，而与此同时，我们还目睹了对妇女和儿童的大规模屠杀。

By the same token, we're seeing, the dehumanization of women through, you know, language that's being being promoted within the manosphere, and we're seeing new ways in which beauty products are making us feel inferior while we also see a literal genocide kill women and children en masse.

我认为，有时我们需要远离手机，确保自己不陷入麻木，真正允许自己去感受刚刚目睹的一切所带来的愤怒。

I think that it's important to step away from our phones sometimes and ensure that we don't feel numb, ensure that we actually allow ourselves to feel the anger from what we've just witnessed.

我认为，这个问题在于，我们中的许多人不知道如何以一种不等同于暴力的方式去表达愤怒。

The problem, I think, with that is so many of us don't know how to feel angry in a way that does not equate to violence.

对许多女性而言，愤怒就意味着暴力。

And for so many women, anger equals violence.

我们被教导说，愤怒是如此可耻、如此压抑。

Like, the way that we're taught about anger is that it is so shameful, so oppressive.

它不被允许或被接纳为一种可以感受的情绪，在职业环境中也很难让我们获得进展。

Like, it's not something that we're allowed or permitted to feel, and it doesn't get us very far in professional contexts.

这真是一个非常有趣的对话。

It's a really interesting conversation.

这正是我今天想探讨的话题。

That's kind of the conversation that I want to have today.

我认为，这或许正是为什么在澳大利亚，阿尔巴尼斯关于活动家兼性侵幸存者格蕾丝·泰姆‘难以相处’的言论引发了如此强烈的共鸣。

I think this is potentially why in Australia, Albanese's comments about activist and sexual assault survivor Grace Tame being, quote, unquote, difficult hit such a nerve.

我认为，无论在任何其他背景下，这种言论都会引发共鸣和触动神经。

Now I would argue that it would have hit a nerve and struck a nerve in any other context as well.

但在这个特定语境下，我认为人们有着更高的期待，而我个人对那些掌握权力、拥有平台的人寄予了更高的责任，因为我期待你们至少能思考，你们所说的话可能对其他群体产生怎样的影响，以及你们言论的背景和后果可能是什么，并且要对自己的语言选择保持高度审慎。

But this really in in this context, I think that there's expectation, and I personally am holding those in power, those with platforms to higher levels of responsibility in today's context because I expect you to at least consider how the words that you're saying might impact other communities and what the context and consequences of what you say might have and to be really deliberate with your choice of language and words.

而我们所看到的，正是一种漫不经心。

And I think what we're seeing is carelessness.

我们正在看到全方位的疏忽大意。

We're seeing a lot of carelessness across the board.

在这个特定背景下，如果你不了解，我确定如果你是澳大利亚人你会知道，但为了其他人，我会简要解释一下。

In this particular context, if you're unaware, I'm sure you're aware if you're Australian, but for everyone else, I'll give a very brief explanation.

总理安东尼·阿尔巴尼斯当时正在参加一档直播广播节目，我想是这样的。

Prime minister Anthony Albanese was on a live radio show, I believe.

我纠正一下，实际上是在2月25日的墨尔本未来维多利亚峰会上。

Correcting myself, it was actually at the Melbourne Future Victoria Summit on the February 25.

那是一个猜词游戏，主持人给出一个主题或人物，他必须用一个词回答。

And it was a one word game where he was given a topic or a person and he had to answer with one word.

早在之前，就有位倡导者在Instagram上发帖，简直让我笑到崩溃，帖子说安东尼·阿尔巴尼斯被要求在直播电视上玩‘结婚还是处决’游戏。

Now already, there was a patooter advocate post on Instagram which just like actually killed me and it was like Anthony Albanese is asked to play Marry Kill on live TV.

这已经让人忍不住想：他答应参加这个环节时到底在想什么？

Already it's like, what was this guy thinking when he agreed to this?

在什么世界里，这种安排能带来好结果？

Like, how in what world is this going to provide a good outcome?

这本来就会产生一个容易走红的短视频片段。

Like, this was always going to get a sound bite that was gonna go viral.

作为媒体消费者，我们不仅要对这些人的言论提出高标准，也要意识到自己其实也被引诱了。

And I think that as media consumers, we also have to we have to hold these people to a high standard with what they say, but we also have to recognize that we're being baited as well.

在这种情况下，安东尼·阿尔巴内塞被要求回答格蕾丝·泰姆的名字，她是一位前澳大利亚年度人物、性侵幸存者和活动家，他回答了‘困难’这个词。

In this situation, Anthony Albanese was given the name Grace Tame, a previous Australian of the Year and sexual assault survivor and activist, and he said the word difficult.

这件事有太多层含义。

There are so many layers to this.

我不打算深入讨论，因为其他媒体平台已经对此进行了非常详尽的探讨，我觉得这对本集来说未必相关或必要。

It's not worth me going into because it's been discussed on so many other media platforms in such great detail, and I don't feel like it's necessarily relevant or necessary for this particular episode.

但简而言之，至少在女权主义圈子里，大家都站在格蕾丝·泰姆这边，因为‘困难’这个词隐含着你具有破坏性、具有挑战性的意味。

But long story short, everyone was on Grace Tame's side, at least in the sort of feminist space because, of course, the connotations of being called difficult is that you are disruptive, challenging.

事后，安东尼·阿尔巴内塞出来澄清，他并没有其他意思。

Following this, Anthony Albanese came out and said he didn't mean anything by it.

他说的‘困难’是指她的人生经历很艰难。

He meant difficult as in she's had a difficult life.

也许情况确实如此，但我的问题是，在当前背景下——尤其是考虑到埃普斯坦文件所暴露的如此明显且公开的厌女情绪——选择这个词显得极其无知和天真。

Now that may be the case, but my problem is that the choice of the word was really ignorant and naive in the context of everything else going on, in the context of misogyny, which is so overt and apparent right now with the Epstein files.

稍加考虑就能避免很多问题。

A little bit of consideration would have got a very long way.

几个世纪以来，女性一直被贴上‘难搞’的标签。

Women have been called difficult for centuries.

只要一步走错，你就会被说成是‘难搞’。

One misstep and you'll be called difficult.

当你为不公发声时是‘难搞’，当你不顺从时是‘难搞’，当你不符合社会所期待的那种完美女性形象时，也是‘难搞’。

Difficult when you stand up for injustices, difficult when you don't comply, difficult when you don't conform to this particular, specific, perfect woman that you're expected to uphold within society.

那种顺从、温顺、随波逐流、事事同意、优雅忍让、任人践踏、从不为自己发声的女性。

A subservient, submissive woman who goes with the flow, agrees to everything, is graceful, accepts when other people walk over her, and doesn't really stand up for herself.

这对一个正在积极压迫她的父权体制来说，是多么便利啊。

How convenient to a patriarchal system that is actively oppressing her.

但我不多说了。

But I digress.

问题总是被归咎于他们。

The problem is always framed as them.

问题在于那些发声的人。

The problem is the people who are speaking up.

问题从来不在体制本身。

The problem is never the system.

使用‘难搞’这个词，实际上就是在沉默。

To use difficult is to literally silence.

关键是，‘难搞’这个词一直很有效。

And the thing is the term difficult has worked.

长期以来，被称作‘难搞’的女性确实感到羞耻。

For so long, women who were called difficult did feel shame.

她们确实内化了这种感觉。

They did internalize that feeling.

她们确实停止了抗争，因为不抗争更容易。

They did stop standing up because it's easier not to.

当整个系统都在压迫你，明确地告诉你，如果你不 conform 到社会所接受的这种特定女性类型，你就是一个不好的人、一个糟糕的人时，你该去哪里？

Where do you go when the entire system is oppressing you and telling you literally, basically saying that you're not a good person, that you're a terrible person if you're not conforming to this specific type of woman that is accepted within society.

但我觉得这种方式已经不再有效了。

But I think this isn't working anymore.

我认为，从人们对阿尔巴尼斯的回应中，我注意到我们不再接受这种行为。

I think that what I noticed with this response to Albanese is that we're not accepting this type of behavior.

我们不再接受随意的厌女行为。

We're not accepting casual misogyny.

我们不再接受那些微妙地让女性安分守己的方式。

We're not accepting the subtle ways in which women are put in their place.

即使那只是一个不经意的评论，即使那是一次不幸的言论，我们也不再接受。

Even if it was a careless comment, even if it was unfortunate, we're not accepting it.

我认为这充分说明了当今世界的状态，以及一股女性感到 empowered、或许已到极限、准备反击的暗流。

And I think that says a lot about the state of the world and about an undercurrent of women feeling empowered actually or maybe at their limit and ready to fight back.

既然我们在这里，我觉得把这个问题摊开来说是好事。

While we're here, think it's good to shake it out.

我觉得感受我刚才提到的那些情绪是好的，因为这个话题很难讨论。

I think it's good to feel those feelings that I've been talking about because this topic is challenging to discuss.

反复重提这些令人烦恼、讨厌的话题确实让人沮丧。

It's frustrating to rehash irritating, annoying topics like this.

我觉得，对差异的包容，对不同观点和意见的包容，现在真的非常低。

And I think that tolerance for otherness and tolerance for different perspectives and opinions really feels low.

这也是我在社交媒体上注意到的问题之一。

And that's part of the problem that I have been noticing on social media as well.

年轻男性和女性在政治观点上从未如此两极分化，平均而言，年轻的Z世代男性比他们的祖父母还要保守。

Young men and women have never really been so polarized in their political views that young Gen Z men are more conservative on average than their grandparents.

但我觉得，在思考这个问题时，非常重要的一点是：在社交媒体上，我们总是看到最极端的声音。

But I do think it's really important when we think about this to discuss the fact that on social media, we always see the most extreme.

在社交媒体上，如果你发布有关女权主义的内容，算法会把它推送给那些最极端的、持反对意见的男性，因为算法正是靠我们的情绪反应和挫败感来盈利的。

On social media, if you put something out there about feminism, that's going to be shared the algorithm is going to share that to the most extreme men who disagree because that is how algorithms profit off of our emotional engagement and frustration.

所以，当你发布有关女权主义、女性赋权的内容并收到这些仇恨评论时，请明白，那些回复和仇恨你的人，很可能就是最极端的群体。

And so when you put something out there about feminism, about women empowerment, and you receive these hateful comments, just know that those people responding, those people hating are probably the most extreme people.

并不是所有男性都这样，但很多时候确实是男性，这确实是我们需要讨论的话题。

It's not all men, but it's often a man, and that's absolutely a conversation we need to have.

但我确实认为，我们还应该指出，我们在网上看到的往往是这种极端的两极分化。

But I actually do think we need to also put in there that what we see online is so often this extreme polarization.

当我们听到关于年轻男女之间极端对立的叙事时，这可能会让我们更加愤怒。

And when we hear these narratives about extreme polarization between young men and women, it can make us even angrier.

它可能让我们对所有男性产生不信任和排斥，而这实际上对我们所追求的目标——平等——非常无益，我们的目标是所有人都能以包容和接纳的心态和谐共处。

It can make us distrust and dismiss the views of all men when that's actually really and unhelpful for what we're trying to achieve here, which is equality, which is a situation where we can all coexist happily with tolerance, with acceptance.

当然，我并不是说我们需要容忍他人的仇恨言论。

And, of course, I'm not saying that we need to tolerate someone else's hate speech.

我认为我们都明白，仇恨言论不是一种观点。

I think we all understand here hate speech isn't an opinion.

偏见也不是一种观点。

Bigotry isn't an opinion.

你不能到处说你憎恨整个群体，然后说‘这是我的观点’。

Like, you can't walk around saying you hate an entire group of people and say, that's my opinion.

这只不过是我的政治观点。

Like, that's my political belief.

所以这并不是我在这里要谈的内容。

So that's not what I'm talking about here.

明白吗？

Okay?

但我确实想说的是，我们需要包容，而现实中却缺乏包容，这种说法——年轻人、年轻男女因为政治立场而被割裂——虽然在一定程度上属实，却反而可能让我们感到更加两极分化。

But I am talking about the need for tolerance and the lack of tolerance and this narrative that young people, young men and women are being separated with our political beliefs, while true to an extent, can actually make us feel more polarized.

你知道吗？

You know?

这几乎成了一种自我实现的预言，让我们感到更加被排斥、孤立，对彼此的差异也更加缺乏包容。

Like, it's almost a self fulfilling prophecy that can make us feel even more ostracized and isolated and less tolerant of each other's difference.

尽管我们可以在这里，坐在极其优越的环境中，讨论女性的愤怒。

While we can have these conversations about female rage, as people sitting here in extremely privileged circumstances most of the time.

我认为值得承认的是，这目前并不是最紧迫的问题。

I think that it's worth acknowledging that this is not the most pressing situation right now.

事实上，最紧迫的问题之一，正是发生在伊朗和巴勒斯坦的非法种族灭绝和非法战争罪行。

That in fact, actually, one of the most pressing situations is literally unlawful genocide, unlawful war crimes that are occurring in Iran and Palestine.

其中最大的受害者群体之一是妇女和儿童。

Some of the largest group of victims within that are women and children.

因此，这场对话应当并且必须涵盖全球的女性。

And so this conversation can and should encompass women across the world.

最近是国际妇女节，我只是觉得，天啊，女性CEO这种说法实在让我无法接受。

It was International Women's Day recently, and I just, like, I just can't handle this idea of, like, woo, women's CEO.

给我们每个人都发点纸杯蛋糕吧。

Let's get cupcakes for everyone.

不，不是这样的。

Like, no.

2026年的妇女节，至少应该关注解放巴勒斯坦、刚果、南苏丹、乌克兰、伊朗这些地方。

Women's Day, at least in 2026, should be about liberating, you know, places like Palestine, Congo, South Sudan, The Ukraine, Iran.

想想那些国家、那些社区、那些处境中的女性，我们该如何确保她们的安全——至少在国际妇女节这一天，更不用说一年中的其他时间了。

Thinking about women in those countries, those communities, those circumstances, and how we can ensure that those women are safe, at least on International Women's Day, let alone, you know, for the rest of the year.

我实际上会在视频描述中提供一些我找到的非常棒的资源，告诉大家如何提供支持，因为我发现了一些特别出色的组织。

And I'm actually gonna leave some really cool resources that I've come across in the description of this video about how to support because I found some really awesome organizations.

有人给我推荐了一个在刚果的组织，看起来真的非常棒。

Someone sent me an organization in Congo, which just seems really awesome.

所以我会在描述中附上这个链接。

So I'm gonna link that in the description.

但我只是觉得，我们就 Epstein 文件 这类话题展开讨论非常重要。

But I just think that it's really important that we can have these conversations about The Epstein Files.

是的。

Yes.

这简直邪恶至极。

It's absolutely diabolical.

是的。

Yes.

这太残忍了。

It's atrocious.

世界上还有其他暴行正在发生。

There are also other atrocities happening in the world.

因此，如果不以这种方式讨论那些对女性和边缘化群体造成不成比例影响的问题，这场对话就无法充分展开，也无法真正展现父权制和资本主义如何渗透到这个世界的每一个角落、每一个社区，就像这样。

And so to not talk about that too in the ways in which that disproportionately impacts women and marginalized communities wouldn't really do the conversation justice and wouldn't actually show just how much patriarchy and capitalism encompasses literally everything within this world and every community and every, like yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

归根结底，这就是核心观点。

That's the thesis at the end of the day.

我要说点实在的。

I'm gonna be so real.

我刚才完全偏离了脚本，但我觉得对话进行得很流畅。

I've been so off script, but I feel like the conversation's flowing.

所以我会根据需要在脚本内外自由切换，但其实我觉得这场讨论根本不需要脚本，朋友们。

So I'll dive in and out of the script when I think it's necessary, but I actually think this is kind of one that we don't need a script, guys.

我觉得我们可以像一对一聊天一样进行这场对话。

I think we can have this conversation one to one.

你和我。

You and me.

你和我。

You and me.

我们把它收起来吧。

Let's tuck it out.

我们把它收起来吧。

Let's tuck it out.

我们该如何瓦解这种父权制？

How are we gonna dismantle this patriarchy?

喂？

Hey?

不。

No.

我开玩笑的。

I'm kidding.

但说实话，正如我在本集开头提到的，我们当中很多人根本不知道如何表达愤怒，什么是建设性的愤怒，以及该如何处理这些愤怒的气泡。

But, well, actually, I think one of the most difficult things, as I mentioned at the start of this episode, is that a lot of us don't even know how to be angry and what productive anger looks like and what to do with these bubbles of rage.

因为这就是它的感觉。

Because that's how it feels.

对我而言，这就是它的感觉。

That's how it feels for me.

一个让你惊呼‘天啊’的愤怒气泡。

A bubble of rage that you're oh my god.

我该把这东西放在哪儿？

Where do I put this?

我不能直接把它戳破，因为那样我会爆炸，而其他人则不得不处理满地的残骸。

Like, I can't just pop it because that will make me explode and everyone else will have to deal with the detritus.

我不希望被迫这么做。

And I don't want to have to do that.

我不想影响到别人。

Like, I don't wanna impact others.

几个世纪以来，女性一直被教导要乖巧、讨人喜欢。

Women have been taught to play nice and be likable for centuries.

让我们乖巧顺从，符合父权资本主义模式的利益。

It serves the patriarchal capitalist model for us to play nice and be subservient.

我其实已经在好几个视频论文中讨论过这个问题。

And I've spoken about this in actually quite a few video essays.

西尔维娅·费德里奇的《卡利班与女巫》是一本极其出色的书，它深刻揭示了资本主义如何依赖父权制，以及最终资本主义本身其实是一种压倒性的威胁。

Sylvia Federici's Caliban and the Witch is an absolutely incredible book, which basically just really highlights the ways in which capitalism requires patriarchy and the ways in which, actually, at the end of the day, capitalism is kind of this overarching threat.

费德里奇的核心观点是，女性作为生育工具，是企业与资本主义增长的根本基础。

Essentially, Federici's thesis is that women as reproductive vessels is fundamental for corporate and capitalist growth.

尤其是在资本主义刚刚兴起的中世纪，女性的这一角色被视为极其重要；但如果女性偏离了生育角色，就足以摧毁整个资本主义体系。

Especially during the middle ages when capitalism was really beginning, this role among women was really valued as something significant, but if women went outside of their reproductive role, that would essentially destroy the entire system of capitalism.

这是因为当时经济尚未发达，人口增长几乎等同于经济增长。

This was because economies weren't advanced enough to not view population growth as almost equal to economic growth at the time.

因此，那些不遵从母亲和生育工具这一传统角色的女性，会因不支持这套经济体系而遭到指控为女巫，甚至被直接谋杀。

And so women who didn't conform to this traditional role as mother and literally reproductive vessel would be punished with either witch allegations or literally murder just because of the fact that they weren't supporting this economic system.

这种观念由来已久：如果我们顺应这些女性化的标准，就会受到严厉惩罚。

It goes back so far, this notion that we will be punished significantly if we conform to these ideals of femininity.

而且我甚至不是在说女巫审判这件事。

And not even, like, not even talking about the witch trials.

我们可以谈谈近现代的情况。

Like, we can talk about recent times.

我们可以谈谈二十世纪对歇斯底里症的诊断。

We can talk about the diagnosis of hysteria in the twentieth century.

我们可以谈谈这种观点：情绪化的女性需要被逐出社会，送进精神病院。

We can talk about this idea that women who were emotional needed to be ousted from society and sent to mental asylums.

我们可以谈谈歇斯底里症曾被视为只有女性才会得的疾病，这一说法后来才被推翻。

We can talk about this idea that hysteria was a woman only disease that was only debunked.

早在十八世纪末，当歇斯底里症的定义扩展到涵盖神经系统时，男性也可能被诊断出这种病。

Like, in the late eighteenth century, men were capable of being diagnosed with hysteria when its definition widened to include the nervous system.

但它仍然与女性气质紧密关联。

But it was still heavily linked with femininity.

女性气质才是需要被纠正的问题。

Femininity was the problem to be fixed.

你来到这个世界时犯下的第一个罪，就是生为女性。

The first sin you committed when you entered this world was being born a woman.

有一条推文，真正精准地概括了父权制。

There's this tweet, and it truly sums patriarchy to a tee.

嘿，男孩们。

It's like, hey, boys.

嘿，男孩们。

Hey, boys.

爱我的女朋友是同性恋吗？

Is it gay to love my girlfriend?

整个世界都被教导去憎恨女性，却又只因她们的性吸引力而享受她们。

The entire world is taught to hate women, but only enjoy them for their sexuality.

但即便如此，某种程度上，表现得性感又有点低俗。

But even then, like, it's kind of, like, tacky to be sexual.

所以只在非常有限的意义上。

So only in a very limited sense.

所以，你真的必须是个纯洁的天使、处女、玛丽亚，还带着孩子。

So really, you need to be this pure angel, virgin, Mary, with a child.

那样才会被接受。

That will be accepted.

其他任何情况都还是有点禁忌。

Anything else is still a little bit taboo.

是的。

Yeah.

我想你或许能找份工作，但我们不会给你提供真正需要的支持，让你既能当CEO又能当母亲。

I guess you could get a job, but, like, we're not gonna provide you support that you really need to be both a CEO and a mother.

我们会因为你是资本的合作者而赞美你，但同时也会有点看不起你，因为你永远不可能成为男人。

We'll praise you for it because you'll be aligning with capitalism, but we'll also be, you know, looking down on you a little bit because you'll never be a man.

而你的罪过就是你不是个男人。

And your sin is that you weren't a man.

你会为这个罪过忏悔。

And you will repent for that sin.

哦，你会的。

Oh, you will.

显然，我们现在所处的时代并不那么明目张胆，不会再以这种方式诊断歇斯底里，也不会再因为女性的情绪而惩罚她们。

And, obviously, we don't live in a time now where it's so overt, where hysteria is actually being diagnosed in this way, where women are being punished for their emotion.

但我们仍能以更隐蔽的形式看到它，这种形式如此微妙，以至于人们以为厌女症已经不复存在。

But we do see it in a much more subtle form, in a form that is subtle enough that people think that misogyny no longer exists.

这让我真实地想起了米歇尔·福柯的观点：我们以为现代社会在道德上先进得多，因为我们不再使用这些野蛮的惩罚。

It honestly reminds me of Michel Foucault's idea that we think we are so much more morally advanced in the modern world because we don't use these barbarian punishments.

我们不再有公开绞刑。

We don't have public hangings.

我们不再目睹过去人们犯错、违背社会契约规则时所遭受的种种恐怖。

We we don't all see the horrors that people were subjected to back in the day when they did something wrong, when they betrayed the rules that were set for them under the social contract of society.

但问题在于，仅仅因为我们看不见，仅仅因为这种压迫不再那么明显，就认为情况比表面上看起来好得多，这其实是值得商榷的。

But the thing is that arguably things are not as good as they seem just because we don't see it, just because it's less overt.

当然。

Sure.

它可能没有那么暴力，但这种态度和价值观可能仍然潜藏在这个社会中。

It might not be as violent, but the attitudes and values may still be underlying in this society.

而且，正如福柯所说，这使我们更难反抗，因为当这些问题深深嵌入我们的结构和社会之中时，我们很难准确指出问题究竟出在哪里。

And arguably, as Foucault says, that makes it much harder for us to revolt because it's much harder to put our finger on exactly what the problem is when it's such an undercurrent within our structure and society.

实际上，读一读澳大利亚记者弗吉尼亚·特里奥利的一篇文章吧，她在澳大利亚非常有名，2018年她在女性媒体大会上发表了一篇关于‘在艰难世界中做一个难缠的女人’的演讲。

Actually, read a piece by Virginia Trioli, who is an Australian journalist, very famous here in Australia, and she delivered a speech to the Women in Media Conference about being a difficult woman in a difficult world in 2018.

我的意思是，整场演讲都太棒了。

And something I mean, the entire speech was amazing.

这篇演讲实际上已经公开发表了，我当然会在描述中留下链接。

It's actually been published, and I'll leave it, obviously, in the description.

但让我印象特别深刻的是，她谈到我们如何遗忘并贬低自己遭遇骚扰的经历，因为不去想它实际上更容易。

But, one of the things that really struck out to me was she speaks about the ways in which we actually forget and undermine our own experiences of harassment because it's actually easier not to think about it.

选择继续前进，反而更简单。

It's easier to just move on.

不去大张旗鼓地闹腾更容易，因为我们常常需要这些人。

It's easier to not make a big song and dance of it because we need these people often.

我们实际上和很多这样的人工作得很近。

We actually work in close proximity to a lot of these people.

我们生活在一个社会里，内心深处清楚地知道，这个社会并不像对待男人那样看待我们，因此我们甚至觉得提出这些问题都不够正当。

We live in a society that we know deep down fundamentally doesn't quite see us the same as men, and therefore we don't feel like it's even valid to bring these up.

特里奥利说，我们遗忘的骚扰经历比记住的还要多。

And Trioli says we have forgotten more harassment than we remember.

直到今天，我仍会在与一些男人愉快交谈时，突然想起我本该憎恨他们。

To this day I find myself halfway through affable conversations with men who I suddenly remember I'm supposed to loathe.

天啊。

Oh, god.

没错。

That's right.

就是那个同事，他借口要用我的酒店浴室换上参加沃克利奖的燕尾服，其实想搭讪我。

That's the colleague who tried to hit on me under the guise of using my hotel bathroom to change into his tuxedo for the Walkleys.

我怎么能忘记这些事？

How do I forget this stuff?

这个家伙在我电视演播室里跟我愉快地聊天，他曾经对我部门的编辑说，当那位编辑极力主张给我加薪时。

And this guy chatting amiably to me in my TV studio, he's the one who once said to my section section editor editor when when that that editor was making a strong case for for me to give me a pay rise.

你是她什么人吗？

Are you her or something?

我们忘记这些事，是因为它们太正常化了。

We forget these things because they're so normalized.

我们忘记这些事，是因为它们太普遍了。

We forget these things because they're so regular.

如果我们允许自己承认这些事有多糟糕——这才是关键——我们实际上会害怕这种愤怒会带来什么后果。

And if we allow ourselves, and here's the kicker, if we allow ourselves to acknowledge just how messed up they are, we actually are fearful of what that rage might do.

我们害怕自己会因为太过愤怒而一事无成。

We're fearful that we would never get anything done because we'll be so infuriated.

你知道，当人们说，这就是现状的时候。

You know, when people say, well, this is just the way it is.

我们为什么接受这一点？

Why are we accepting that?

我们不必接受这一点。

We don't have to accept that.

我们不必接受这个体系。

We don't have to accept this system.

最有力量的事情其实是了解替代性体系，以及学习如何推动能帮助我们所有人的变革。

The most empowering thing, actually, is learning about alternative systems and learning about how we can actually advocate for change that will help us all.

因为我们生活在一个假象中，认为现在的一切对我们来说是最好的，而且过去的情况只会更糟。

Because we do live under this pretense that what we have now is the best for us and that what we have now, it's only been worse in the past.

这种认为我们现在在道德上更优越的想法，并不一定正确，也不一定是我们必须出于对其他可能性的恐惧而接受的。

This idea that we are morally superior now, it's not necessarily true and it's not necessarily something we just have to accept out of fear for what a different scenario could look like.

正如我之前在许多集里提到的，我最喜欢的一个社交媒体创作者是露易莎·芒奇，她已经完成了她的博士。

As I've spoken about in many episodes before, one of my favorite, social media creators is Louisa Munch, who has done her Ph.

学位。

D.

在批判理论中。

In critical theory.

她谈论了我们面临的一个问题：无法想象不同的现实，也无法以真正有助于我们动员和推动惠及所有人的变革的方式运用我们的想象力。

And she talks about this problem that we have in not being able to imagine different realities and not being able to use our imagination in productive ways that actually support us to mobilize and advocate change in a way that is going to benefit everyone.

但因为我们并没有都获得这些想象一个不同世界的工具，因为教育体系直到高等教育阶段才教授批判性思维，而澳大利亚、美国和英国的高等教育又并非免费，所以我们实际上缺乏批判性地思考不同制度、思考这些制度如何影响我们的能力。

But because we haven't all been given these tools to imagine a world that does look different, because education systems really don't teach us critical thought until at least tertiary level, and because that's not free in Australia, in The US, in The UK, we actually don't have the ability to critically think about different systems, to critically think about the systems and how they impact us.

当我研究这个概念时，我接触到了安德烈亚·道金斯的作品，她是一位颇具争议的女性主义学者，但也提出了一些非常引人深思、富有洞见的观点。

And when I was looking into this concept, I came across the work of Andrea Dawkin, who is a fairly controversial feminist scholar, but she's also made some really fascinating, insightful points.

她最著名的作品之一是《右翼女性》。

And one of her most famous works is Right Wing Women.

在书中，她探讨了这样一个现象：许多身处右翼的女性，我们左翼人士往往认为她们主动参与了对自身的压迫以及对其他女性的压迫。

And in it, she discusses this phenomenon of how many women, many women who exist on the right, we on the left view them as actively participating within their own oppression and within the oppression of other women.

我认为，在左翼空间中，我们中的许多人——虽然我不太喜欢使用这种二元划分，但它便于沟通——

And I think because so many of us in the leftist spaces, I don't really like using this dichotomy, but it's easy for communication purposes.

对于我们这些渴望一个不同于现状的现实的人来说，我们真的相信这种可能性是存在的。

For many of us who want a different reality to the one that we have now, we're really believing that that can be possible.

本质上，道金斯的观点是，右翼女性根本不相信这是可能的。

And essentially, Dawkins' argument is that right wing women simply don't believe it's possible.

她们根本不相信另一种现实是可能的。

They simply don't believe a different reality is possible.

她们根本不相信当前结构能够实现变革，因此她们停留在我们所认为的社会、家庭和母亲角色中的压迫性位置上。

They simply don't believe in transformative change of the current structure, and therefore, they exist within what we see as oppressive roles within society, within the household, with as mother.

她们不会超越这些角色。

They don't go beyond those roles.

当然，我并不是说做母亲、待在家庭里本身有什么问题，但我所指的是那种‘传统妻子’的理念——你不能出去工作，你只能扮演这个角色，而这正是由于许多这些右翼女性所坚持并真诚地向其他女性倡导的性别本质主义观念。

Obviously, not saying here that being a mother, being in the household is inherently impressive, but I'm also talking about this, like, trad wife idea where you can't get a job, where you are only in that role, and that's because of this gender essentialist idea of what it is to be a woman that many of these right wing women uphold and genuinely try to advocate for among other women.

道金斯说，这仅仅是因为她们不相信变革的可能性。

And Dawkins says that simply because they don't believe in transformative change.

这实际上是她们在这种体制下生存的唯一方式，反抗毫无意义。

This is actually the only way that they can survive under this system, and there's no point fighting back.

我真的非常佩服她能够达到这种理解所需的同理心水平。

I really am impressed by the level of empathy that it would have taken for her to get there.

我认为，许多女性对那些身处右翼、倡导与自身利益明显相悖的女性感到沮丧和愤怒，这是相当合理的，尤其是当我们看到一些女性倡导反堕胎、甚至在如果不堕胎就会危及生命的情况下仍坚持这一立场时。

I think that it's pretty pretty fair enough that a lot of women feel quite frustrated and infuriated by women who exist on the right and advocate for interests that are seemingly completely opposed to their own, especially when we see women advocate for, like, pro life and anti abortion, even in context where it would literally where the where the woman would die if they weren't given that opportunity to have an abortion.

当你看到一位女性积极反对其他女性的利益时，这确实令人困惑和难以理解。

It's pretty baffling and confusing when you see a woman who is actively advocating against the interests of those women.

但道金斯认为，从某种意义上说，她是在为所有女性的利益发声，因为这类女性根本不相信改变是可能的，因此，采取这种性别本质主义的角色对她而言是一种生存方式。

But Dawkins suggests that, in a sense, she is advocating for all the interests of all women because this particular type of woman doesn't believe change is possible, and therefore, it's survival for her to adopt this gender essentialist role.

不过，我个人并不认同这种观点。

Now, personally, I don't agree with this perspective.

如果我允许自己这样想，我恐怕会彻底崩溃，变得干瘪如葡萄干？

I think that I would simply crumble and turn into a prune if What?

如果我允许自己这样想的话。

If I allowed myself to think like that.

对我来说，变革与想象力正是支撑我继续前行的真正动力。

For me, transformative change and imagination is literally what keeps me going.

我热衷于确保我们能够相信差异的存在，能够看到系统性的变革。

Like, I'm passionate about ensuring that we can have a belief in difference, that we can see systemic change.

我实际上认为，看到系统性的变革是完全可能的。

I actually think that it is totally possible to see systemic change.

我认为这是可能的。

I think that it's it is possible.

相信我们能够实现这种变革很重要，因为要志存高远，朋友们。

It's important to believe that we can make this change because shoot for the stars, guys.

要志存高远。

Shoot for the stars.

这很重要。

It's important.

在我看来，为了我们自身的生存，反击真的非常重要。

It's really important for our own survival, in my view, that we fight back.

但当我们不知道该如何做时，这就很难了。

But it's difficult when we don't know how to.

我的意思是，当我们无法全部动员起来时，这很困难，因为很多人根本就不相信这是可能的。

I mean, it's difficult when we can't all mobilize because so many people don't even believe it's possible in the first place.

因此，我们已经有不少人被这种意识形态夺走了。

So we've lost a bunch of people to that ideology.

当这么多人从根本上认为这种努力不会支持我们，甚至认为我们才是破坏所有人处境的罪魁祸首时，要让每个人都达成一致的结论是非常困难的。

It's very difficult to get everyone on board to come to the same kind of conclusion that it is gonna support us when so many people think fundamentally that it won't and think fundamentally that we're the ones ruining the entire situation for everyone else.

所以，在讨论这些问题时，保持同理心也很重要。

So it's important to have empathy when we talk about these things as well.

无论如何，我认为我们已经看到，各种运动实际上都源于女性的愤怒。

Anyway, I think that we've just seen how various movements actually have come out of women's anger.

Me Too 运动就是一个明显的例子。

The Me Too movement being an obvious one.

还有女权主义者们，各位。

Suffragettes too, guys.

如果我们没有过去那些愤怒而坚韧的女性所做出的非凡努力和动员，我们今天根本不可能走到这一步。

Like, we wouldn't be anywhere if we didn't have the incredible efforts and mobilization of angry, difficult women in the past.

我认为，也很重要的是要承认，女性主义和系统性变革并不总是光鲜亮丽的。

And I think it's really important to also talk about the fact that feminism and systemic change, it's not all pretty.