EB5 Marketing with Courtney Creedon

欢迎收听EB5投资之声，这里汇聚移民投资领域的专业律师洞见。

Welcome to EB5 Investment Voice, where attorney insights intersects with immigration investments.

如果你是福特投资者、国内基金管理人，或是富有开拓精神的创业者，想充分把握EB5项目的机会，那你来对地方了。

If you are a Ford investor, domestic fund manager, or enterprising entrepreneur and want to get the most out of the EB5 program, you have come to the right place.

我是马克·迪尔，接下来将和你一起主持这档节目。

I'm Mark Deal, and I'll be your cohost on this journey.

今天我邀请到了节目主持人莫娜·沙，以及莫娜·沙律师事务所的多位律师，还有来自全球的移民事务专家。

I'm joined by your host, Mona Shah, and other attorneys at Mona Shah and Associates, as well as immigration leaders from around the world.

那么，我们正式进入《EB5投资之声》。

So let's get into EB5 Investment Voice.

莫娜，你今天怎么样？

Mona how are you doing today?

我很好。

I'm very well.

顶着大雪坚持下来了，马克。

Surviving the snow, Mark.

熬过这场大雪啊。

Surviving the snow.

亚特兰大这边冷得不行，我知道纽约这个冬天雪下得特别多。

It's cold down here in Atlanta, and I know New York has gotten a tremendous amount of snow this season.

你们几周前下的雪，是不是创了历史第二大的纪录？

In fact, you guys got what, like the second biggest snowfall ever recorded a few weeks ago?

是的。

Yes.

而且雪量 barely 超过第二名。

And it was very slim.

排在第二，差点就成第一了。

Slimley's the second.

差点能拿第一。

It almost was the first.

天哪。

Oh, my goodness.

希望等到这期节目播出时，外面已经阳光明媚了。

Well, hopefully by the time that this episode airs, it'll be beautiful and sunny outside.

不过你知道吗？我心里现在就已经阳光灿烂了，因为我知道你今天请了一位特别的嘉宾。

But you know what, it's already sunny inside because I know you had a special guest that you brought us today.

你都笑出来了，说明我一提这事你就知道我要说什么。

You're already laughing because I'm making I'm bringing this up.

我特别期待和她聊聊，因为自从上次和科特尼聊天，都快一年半了。

But I'm excited to talk to her because I haven't talked to Courtney in oh gosh, almost eighteen months.

现在听节目的人可能在想：科特尼是谁啊？

A person listening right now is probably wondering, you know, Courtney who?

今天请来的就是科特尼·克里登。

So we have Courtney Creedon on.

她在《EB5投资者杂志》工作。

She works at EB5 Investors Magazine.

在我说太多之前，科特尼，跟大家打个招呼吧。

And really, before I go off too much further, Courtney, say hello.

你好。

Hello.

很高兴再次和你聊天，马克。

It's nice to speak with you again, Mark.

谢谢莫娜邀请我。

And thank you, Mona, for inviting me.

没想到今天能这么顺利地安排上这次对话。

This all kind of fell together and worked out nicely that we're able to have this discussion today.

确实，确实如此。

Definitely, definitely.

莫娜前几天告诉我你要来的时候，我就特别开心。

And I'm obviously glad it all pulled together when Mona told me the other day that you would be joining us.

我简直太高兴了。

Was ecstatic.

就像我说的，我们上一次在节目里聊天已经是十八个月前了，现在能再和你聊聊真好。

Like I said, it's been eighteen months since we had a conversation on another show, and to talk to you again.

我意识到情况已经变了，你如今有了更多经验可以和我们分享。

And I realized things have evolved, and you've got even more experience to share with us.

这真是太好了。

And this is going be great.

你能跟听众简单介绍一下你平时做些什么吗？

Well, if you could tell the audience a little bit about what you do.

当然可以。

Sure.

上次我们聊的时候，马克，我还在担任《EB5投资者杂志》的代理主编。

So I think last time we spoke, Mark, I was the acting editor in chief of EB5 Investors Magazine.

那时候要跟编辑团队合作，跟像莫娜这样的撰稿人一起工作，把整本杂志做出来。

And that involved working with our editorial board, working with contributing authors like Mona, and putting the whole magazine together.

后来我慢慢退出了那个职位，现在更多是以撰稿人的身份参与。

I've since transitioned a bit out of that role and am working more as a contributing author.

所以我现在更多是在幕后帮忙。

So I assist a bit more behind the scenes.

主要的编辑工作已经交给了我们出色的编辑玛丽·特里西。

The main editorial role has been transferred over to our wonderful editor, Mary Treese.

我就像之前说的，更多是在幕后帮忙，参与编辑流程，协助修改和撰写文章，同时也做了不少跟我们会议相关的工作——那是公司另一个重要板块，还参与了一些拓展国际业务的工作。

And I work, like I said, a bit more behind the scenes and helping out with the editorial process and helping out editing and writing articles, but have done also a lot of work with our conferences, which is another big arm of our company, as well as some work on expanding our international reach.

这些话题今天肯定会谈到，也都是非常值得讨论的内容。

So those are definitely, issues that will come up in our conversation today and will be great topics to discuss.

是的，当然。

Yeah, certainly.

莫娜，你参加过好几届EB5投资者大会了吧？

Mona, you've been a couple of the EB5 Investors Conference, haven't you?

对，我们参加过。

Yes, yes, we have.

马克，这个播客的初衷是聊聊营销，而我们觉得，现在营销领域最顶尖的代表，非EB5投资者杂志莫属——无论是他们的杂志，还是他们的大会，都是行业标杆。

Well, the purpose of this particular podcast, Mark, was to discuss marketing, and we could think of no better person to start the discussion than the leaders in the field right now in marketing, which is EB5 Investors Magazine, not only in their magazine but also in their conferences.

没错。

Certainly.

Courtney，现在轮到你了，我知道Mona有几个问题想问你。

Courtney, now you're in the hot seat because I know Mona has a few questions for you.

我也有几个问题想问你。

I have a few questions for you.

那我们直接开始吧。

We'll go ahead and get right into it.

Mona，我把你请上来吧，我知道你准备了好几个问题要问Courtney。

Mona, I'll go ahead and defer to you because I know you've got a couple of good questions lined up for Courtney.

好的。

Great.

非常感谢你，Mark。

Well, thank you so much, Mark.

再者，Courtney，我们节目听众可能都在想，你为什么在这里？但营销在EB5领域真的至关重要。

And again, Courtney, this is really to our audience who are wondering why you're here, but marketing is so essential in EB5.

如果没有营销，开发商就找不到投资者，投资者也找不到项目。

Without marketing, developers don't get investors, investors don't find projects.

但与此同时，市场营销也承担着很大的责任。

But at the same time, there's a lot which rests on marketing.

像你们这样的杂志，首先，它的覆盖范围有多大？

And a magazine like yours, what kind of reach does your magazine have, first of all?

是的，我2013年刚起步的时候，正好是第二期，发行量还很小。

Yeah, so when I started out in 2013, it was in our middle of our second issue and it was still a relatively small circulation.

现在我们的英文版订阅人数已经超过两万了。

We are now at about a little over 20,000 subscribers for our English edition.

这包括纸质版和电子版，中文版也有七千多订阅者。

So that's between actual physical hard copies and our electronic version, and at over 7,000 for our Chinese version of the magazine.

我们的发行不仅覆盖美国本土，也延伸到了中国。

So we're not only, you know, distributed domestically in The US, but also in China.

就像我之前跟你说的，莫娜，节目开始前我们聊过，杂志在迪拜、中东、伊朗，甚至南美的巴西，都有不少读者关注。

And as I was discussing with you, Mona, before the show, you know, we even have have some a lot of quite a bit of interest from Dubai, from The Middle East, from Iran, from, you know, even South America, Brazil.

还有印度。

India,

我相信。

I believe.

印度全境。

India as All

整个东方。

of the East.

真的吗？

Really?

显然，除了中国之外，未来一段时间内，EB-5最大的市场还是会在中国，但除此之外，需求也很多。

So a lot of, you know, beyond China, obviously, that's always going to be or in the foreseeable future will always be the largest market for EB5.

不过，我们的杂志读者群并不仅限于美国或中国受众。

But, you know, our magazine does have a wider reach than just a US or just a Chinese audience.

没错。

Right.

我从读过这本杂志的人那里得到的反馈是，外面的世界远比想象中丰富得多。

And and the feedback that I get from people who go to magazine and stuff is that there's so much out there.

他们感到困惑。

They're confused.

所以，这些播客的目的，就是向开发商、考虑EB5的人以及投资者传递一些信息，帮助他们走上正确的方向。

So, again, like the purpose of these podcasts to give some information out not only to developers, people who are thinking of EB5 and and investors is to try and push them into the right, direction.

还有很多最佳实践，这也引出了我第一个真正想问你的问题，Courtney。

You know, a lot of best practices as well, which brings me to my my first real question for you, Courtney.

如果我是个投资者，看到你们杂志上宣传的项目，我会不会觉得EB5投资者杂志已经对这个项目做过尽职调查？

If I was an investor and I see a project which is advertised in your magazine, do I feel confident that EB5 Investors Magazine has done due diligence on that project?

我能不能放心地去联系这个项目，知道他们已经通过了EB5杂志的审核？

Can I safely go and and talk to that project knowing they've been an EB5 Magazine?

你一上来就问了个难题啊。

So you're starting out with the tough questions.

是的。

Yes.

我觉得这个问题，或者我对此的回答，其实可以更广泛地适用于整个行业。

I think this question kind of can be, or my answer to this can be more broadly applied to the industry as a whole.

在这方面，我觉得我们杂志的独特之处在于，我们的业务开发团队，甚至整个编辑部，都会努力去了解我们合作的人、广告主和作者。

In that, yes, I think what is special about our publication is that our business development team and really everyone at our publication makes an effort to really get to know the people that we work with, get to know our advertisers, get to know our authors.

但归根结底，就像你不会指望《纽约时报》去核实他们刊登的每一个广告一样，我们刊登广告主要是一个商业决定。

But ultimately, when it comes down to it, in the same way you wouldn't expect the New York Times to vet every single advertiser on their pages, Our printing of an advertisement is primarily a business decision.

所以我们既没有时间，也没有资源，更没有责任去逐一审核每一个项目。

And so, we don't have the time or the resources nor the responsibility really to vet every single project.

所以是的，我们确实会尽力去了解广告背后的那些人。

So yes, I mean, we do make an effort to get to know the individuals behind the advertisement.

但最终，还是得靠投资者自己来判断。

But at the end of the day, it really is up to the investor.

我会建议所有投资者——我相信莫娜也会这么讲——不仅要自己做充分的调查，还要找值得信赖的顾问一起协助完成尽职调查。

And I would advise any investor as I'm sure Mona would as well to do, you know, not only their own due diligence, but work with trusted advisors to undertake that due diligence as well.

别光看杂志里那些漂亮的图片就做决定，不过能翻开杂志看到实实在在的项目，确实很有帮助，能让投资者更容易想象自己参与其中的样子。

And, you know, not to rely just on a pretty picture in a magazine when choosing a project, but it absolutely is useful to be able to open a magazine and see some kind of tangible project and really, you know, allow the investor to maybe envision themselves as part of that project.

所以老实说，我们没有足够资源去审核每一个找上门的广告商。

So I would say we unfortunately don't have the resources to vet every single advertiser that comes our way.

我们确实会尽力了解项目背后的人员，如果收到明确信息表明某个项目很糟糕、已经失败之类的，我们当然会重新评估。

We do try our best to know who's behind the project and to know who, you know, if we get information that's very clearly telling us that this is a horrible project or has failed or whatever, then obviously we would evaluate that.

但我建议任何人在任何情况下遇到项目时——无论是在杂志上、通过律师介绍，还是在会议上——都要自己做充分的尽职调查。

But I would advise anyone who encounters any project in any type of situation, whether it's in a magazine, whether it's your attorney, whether it's at a conference, to really undertake their own due diligence as well.

我想问一个问题，因为我想插一句，把事情说清楚。

Let me ask a question because I kind of want to jump in here and to really clarify.

你知道，《EB-5投资者杂志》包含大量内容，很多文章，有些是编辑撰写的，有些是律师写的。

So, you know, EB5 Investors Magazine contains really a lot of content, a lot of articles, you know, some are editorial pieces, some are written by attorneys.

Mona，我知道你为这本杂志写过几篇文章。

Mona, I know you've written a couple of articles for the magazine.

其实写了不少。

Well, quite a few, actually.

确实写了不少。

Quite a few.

对。

Yeah.

我至少也在里面发过一篇。

I've I've had, I've had at least one in there.

那我们就说总共一篇吧。

Well, we'll say a total of one.

杂志上的一篇文章。

Article in the magazine.

有这些文章，但也有广告。

There are those articles, but there's also advertisements.

即使你没有对所有内容都做尽职调查，也没严格遵循证交会的指南，因为你并不是在背书，但你还是会遵守联邦贸易委员会的规定，明确标注这是广告。

And even though you may not perform due diligence or, you know, follow the the SEC guidelines for all this due diligence, because you're not really endorsing, but you do follow, FTC, Federal Trade Commission guidelines and say, know, this is an advertisement.

哪些是广告，大家一眼就能看出来，对吧？

It's very clear, you know, which ones are ads, right?

当然了。

Absolutely.

这正是区分的关键所在。

And that's, you know, that's the dividing line.

我们后面讨论的时候可能会谈到广告和文章之间的区别，以及它们有时重叠的地方。

And we may get to this in our discussion later, the differences between advertisements and articles and where those sometimes overlap.

但EB5投资者杂志上的广告和文章之间界限非常明确，无论是特邀作者撰写的，还是杂志直接撰写的，都分得清清楚楚。

But there's definitely a very clear line between what is an advertisement and what is an article published by EB5 Investors Magazine, either written by a contributing author and published by us or written directly by the magazine.

这个界限是非常清晰的。

And there's definitely a clear line.

我们所有的文章都会经过严格审核，有一套完整的编辑流程。

All our articles are definitely vetted where, you know, it goes through a very rigorous editorial process.

我们确保参与撰稿的作者都绝对专业，像莫娜这样的人，已经多次通过了我们的考核。

And we're making sure that any authors that participate in our magazine are absolutely qualified and know their stuff like Mona who has passed the test a few times.

但确实，广告和文章之间是有明确界限的。

But yes, there's definitely a line between advertisements and articles.

没错。

Right.

科特尼，我能不能问一下，其实我知道答案。

Courtney, if if I could just ask because I I do know the answer to this.

人们总说，一个好律师在提问之前，就应该知道答案。

They always say that a a good lawyer should know the answer to the question before they ask it.

不过，如果投资者想直接联系杂志，咨询有关律师、律所或项目的广告信息，杂志这边是怎么处理的呢？

But, does the magazine if a if if an investor wants to contact the magazine directly in relation to either, an ad relating to an an attorney, an attorney firm, or a project, how does the the the magazine handle it?

你们从中赚钱吗？

And do you make any money out of this?

作为杂志，我们并不主动为投资者牵线搭桥，也不会专门推荐他们给谁。

The magazine doesn't, you know, as a magazine place investors or work to necessarily refer investors.

我们更倾向于把自己看作一个传播知识的平台。

We kind of see ourselves more as a platform to disperse knowledge.

当然，这种传播有时也会促成商业联系，不管是通过杂志还是我们的会议。

And some of that does foster business connections, either through our magazine or through our conferences.

比如说，有投资者读了Mona写的文章，觉得她说得真有道理。

You know, for example, if we have an investor who reads an article written by by Mona and says, oh, I really like what she has to say.

她看起来非常专业，我想直接联系她。

She sounds like a very knowledgeable woman, and I'd like to get in touch with her.

我们当然会尽可能协助这个过程，但不会收取介绍费，也不会做推荐——这一点很重要。

We're definitely happy to facilitate that process as much as possible but we don't take finders fees, we don't recommend That's important.

我们不会偏袒某个项目而贬低其他项目。

We don't recommend certain projects over another.

我们真正想做的，是保持透明，成为知识的中心。如果能通过杂志或会议促成商业合作，那自然是再好不过。

We really are trying to be transparent really be a hub for knowledge and if we are able to facilitate business relationships, whether through our magazine or at our conferences, all the better.

但这绝对不是我们在行业中的主要角色。

But it's definitely not our primary role in the industry.

没错。

Right.

根据《乔布斯法案》和证交会的规定，项目方是被允许做广告的。

Well, under the Jobs Act, I mean, an SEC regulations, the projects are allowed to advertise.

我觉得，一个透明的项目才会愿意做广告。

And I do feel that a project which has transparency will advertise.

而那些比较模糊、依赖内幕信息、只靠漂亮图片吸引投资者的项目，反而不会做广告，因为他们不想接受同样的 scrutiny。

And a project which is a little more shifty and and is relying on closeted information and investors just going to them because they have pretty pictures or something will not advertise because they won't put themselves under the same scrutiny.

没错。

Absolutely.

我也这么想，如果你在EB5项目里做事不规范，大概也不会想出现在我们的杂志上。

And that's that's what I would say as well is, you know, if you're not doing things the right way in EB5, so to speak, you're probably not going to want to be in our magazine.

我们的读者里有很多议员，还有不少SEC的成员，他们都在关注着行业动态。

We have a lot of legislators in our audience, a lot of, you know, members of the SEC that are are looking and seeing what's going on.

说实话，我们在业内确实有不小的影响力和覆盖面。

You know, we do have a relatively big reach and a relatively large presence in the industry.

所以幸运的是，我们吸引来的大多是正经做业务、按规矩办事的人。

And so luckily we are able to attract generally speaking people who are in the business legitimately and going about things the right way.

这确实让我们轻松了不少。

So that does make it a little easier for us.

这对投资者来说是好事。

Well, that's for the investor.

现在，我们有

Now, we have

很多项目方都在积极寻找投资者，但他们做市场推广的预算通常很有限。

a lot of project clients and project clients are always trying to get investors and they want they do have a limited budget when it comes to marketing.

所以在他们花钱做广告或参加展会之前，我们总是建议他们先考虑像你们这样覆盖面广的杂志。

So before they go out and they spend on advertising and conferences, we do always recommend that they do come to a magazine with a with a reach as wide as yours.

不过不夸张地说，如果一个开发商想让自己的项目被更多人知道，你有什么建议吗？

But without playing on the magazine but very very genuinely, what advice would you give to a developer who is looking to get his project out there?

当然。

Sure.

我觉得在杂志上做广告确实能带来很大的价值。

I mean, I think absolutely advertising in the magazine is something that brings a lot of value to people.

但如果你预算有限，又不确定投入回报如何，确实会有点犹豫。

It can also be something that's scary to commit to if you don't have a large advertising budget and you're not sure what the value, what your return on investment is going to be, so to speak.

其实还有其他方式可以参与，比如自己写文章，或者和合作的律所联合发布内容。

There are definitely other ways to get involved, whether it's through writing articles on your own or working with a law firm that you may work with to produce an article.

参加我们的会议也是个不错的选择，不仅能更深入了解EB-5项目，更重要的是能拓展人脉——我想Mona也会同意这一点。

I think attending our conferences is another great way to both learn more about EB5, but I think the big value there is the networking, as I think Mona would agree.

在很多这类市场里，说到底靠的还是信任，投资者都看重这个。

And I think in a lot of these markets, you know, it's built on trust investors.

没错。

Absolutely.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

我们接触的一些投资者，其实是一两年前就来找我们的，你可能想不到。

And and I mean, we work with investors who've come to us maybe a year or two years ago, believe it or not.

他们有时间慢慢选。

They have time to choose.

不是所有人都想匆忙做决定。

They don't all want to rush into something.

他们会仔细考量，一旦看到某个项目出现在媒体上，就会觉得更可信，这是毫无疑问的。

And they take their time and if they see something which is out there, it adds to the credibility without a doubt.

很多项目方希望投资者赶紧拍板，但如果是区域中心，或者手上有多个项目的公司，这种慢节奏反而更有利。

A lot of projects don't want somebody who's going take a year to decide but it may be a regional center or maybe a a company who have got several it probably benefits them.

没错。

Absolutely.

我觉得一些刚进入这个行业的项目可能没意识到，就像莫娜也能说的那样，跟五年前甚至更早的时候不一样了，那时候市场上项目没那么多，现在可有不少真正靠谱、特别有吸引力的项目。

And I think maybe what some projects that are new to the industry fail to realize is, you know, unlike, and Mona can speak to this as well, unlike five years ago or even less, you know, where there weren't as many projects in the market, There are a lot of really legitimate, really exciting projects in the market right now.

所以，光是做个项目，弄些花里胡哨的图片和宣传册，就想一下子拉来成千上万的投资人，没那么简单。

So it's not as simple as just building up a project and, you know, showing off some flashy pictures and flashy brochures and, you know, signing up investors by the thousands.

这需要多得多的努力。

It takes a lot more work than that.

对，在我问下一个问题之前，马克，你有没有什么想问科特尼的？

Right and before I go into my next sort of questions, Mark I don't know if you have any questions in this particular area for Courtney.

哦，我要是有什么问题，我会插一句的。

Oh, you know, I'll jump in if I do.

好的，当然。

Yeah, sure.

关键是，科特尼，你这几年一直在EB5杂志，亲眼见证了市场的变化。

Well, the the the thing is is that Courtney, you've been with EB5 Magazine over these few years and you've seen the market change.

市场已经发生了巨大变化。

The market has heavily changed.

几年前，大家只看区域中心能不能说，‘我做过X个项目’。

A few years ago, it was all about the regional center who could say, yes, I've done X amount of projects.

现在，投资者自己就能去调查，直接找律师了解情况。

Now, people out there have got the ability to approach lawyers themselves with their own investigation.

现在可用的资源多得多了。

There's more resources out there.

我觉得这不仅改变了市场，也改变了投资者选择项目的方式。

And I think that's changed in the way what's changing as well is the way an investor will choose a project.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

我觉得，尤其是行业里最近出了几起备受关注的丑闻，不幸的是，这些事往往是因为有些人没按规矩办事，这让投资者变得更谨慎了。

I mean, I think, you know, especially with there have been a few high profile scandals in the industry which, you know, unfortunately came about from people not necessarily doing things the right way and that sometimes can make investors more cautious.

但另一方面，现在优质项目这么多，投资者不再只看过去有没有经验，或者光说‘我做过X个项目’了。他们真的会做深入调查，光靠‘我中介认识谁谁’已经不够了。

But also just the wealth of good projects now and so an investor, you know, it's no longer enough just to have previous experience Previous experience, you know, or just to say I've done X number of projects, they really are doing their homework, you know, it's no longer enough for them to just say, Oh, my agent knows so and so.

他们真的想亲自来看看这个项目。

They really, you know, they want to come see the project.

他们想知道背后是谁，有什么经验，是否成功做过类似项目。

They want to know who's behind it, what their experience is, that they've been successful in similar types of projects.

比如说，如果有人在搞高层地产项目，他们就会想知道这个人有没有建过高层地产的经验。

You know, if someone's building a high rise real estate project, they want to know that that person has experience building high rise real estate projects.

没错，另外一点是，过去几年里，单个的项目开始独立运作了。

Right, and the other thing is that we've had for the least the last couple of years is that individual projects will go out and go on their own.

他们不一定要设立区域中心，而是直接租用现有的区域中心。

They don't want to necessarily put up a regional center and they'll just rent a regional center.

然后他们自己做宣传。

So then they just advertise themselves.

我想，这也正是你们杂志开始发挥教育作用的地方。

I suppose that's really where again your magazine is starting to really educate people.

我觉得你们杂志的影响力不仅覆盖投资者，也覆盖了开发商。

So I feel that your magazine really does have reach not just for investors, but for developers as well.

当然了。

Oh, absolutely.

而且我觉得，我们在广告商和撰稿人方面的覆盖面很广。当年我负责的时候，就特别注重刊登各种类型的文章，好吸引不同背景的读者。

And I think the range of players that we're able to attract in terms of our advertisers, but also in terms of our contributing authors really, you know, when I was at the helm, I really made it a point to try to incorporate a variety of articles that would appeal a variety of audiences.

不光是移民律师会看。

It's not always going to be immigration attorneys.

也不光是公司和证券律师会看。

It's not always gonna be corporate and securities attorneys.

是的。

Yeah.

但还有很多项目开发商在读这本杂志，他们在想：接下来我该怎么做？

But there are also a lot of project developers out there reading the magazine and wondering, you know, what do I do next?

还有一些投资者也在读，尤其是那些非常资深的投资者，他们想尽可能全面地了解这个项目。

Or there, you know, are even investors out there reading the magazine and those that are really sophisticated investors that really want to know as much about the program as possible.

当然，也有不少投资者对这些文章特别感兴趣。

You know, there are those investors as well that are are very interested in the article.

所以我们一直很重视这一点，就是要让整个行业都能感兴趣，没错。

So I think that's been a priority for us is really trying to appeal to the industry as a whole Right.

同时又要保持足够的专业性和技术深度，真正对像莫娜这样的专业人士，或者那些在行业里干了多年的公司和证券律师有帮助。

While still being specific and technical enough to actually be useful to professionals like Mona or to corporate and securities attorneys who have been in the industry for years.

我知道现在社交媒体特别火，我们其实还专门做了一个关于社交媒体的播客，尤其是在中国，几乎所有东西都跟社交媒体挂钩。

I know now social media is huge and we actually have a whole podcast on social media, especially in China, where everything is social media.

你们的杂志做得真好，硬壳精装、光泽亮丽，但一年才出四期，每期也就六十页，能承载的内容终究有限。

Your magazine is lovely, hard, glossy, but there's a limit to how much you can do in 60 pages, which comes out four times a year.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

EB5杂志到现在有没有深入涉足社交媒体呢？

Have EB5 Magazine really delved into social media at this point?

有的，我想说，我们当然也有自己的推特和脸书账号，跟其他人一样。

Yes, so I would say, you know, we definitely have our Twitter and Facebook accounts and all of that like everyone else.

不过，我们的英文网站上也定期发布一些博客文章，都是我们网络里的律师和专业人士撰写的。

But we do also on our English site have regular blog posts that are written by different attorneys and professionals in our network.

但就中国受众而言，就像Mona说的，他们主要用手机，移动性很强。

But especially in terms of the Chinese audience, like Mona said, a lot of it is very it's a very mobile audience.

他们不一定坐在桌前，盯着电脑或笔记本屏幕。

They're not necessarily tethered to a desk or looking at their desktop or even a laptop.

所以我们不仅推出了电子版的中文杂志，还在微信上设有账号，而微信是中国最主流的信息传播和沟通渠道之一。

And so we do have our our Chinese magazine that is published electronically, but we also have a presence on WeChat as well, which is probably one of the biggest methods of communicating and sharing information in China.

如果有人还不知道微信是什么，那它其实是一个集Facebook、Twitter和LinkedIn功能于一身的社交应用。

Well, for anybody who doesn't know what WeChat is, WeChat is a social media app which could be described as their version of Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn all in one.

没错，完全没错。

Right, right.

所以我们意识到，中国和美国市场差异很大，必须调整策略。这不仅适用于我们，也适用于所有想进入中国市场的项目或企业——移动端和社交媒体的影响力至关重要。

And so it's very, you know, We've tried to, you know, recognizing the differences between the Chinese market and The US market, it's important to adapt your strategies and I think that can be said not only for us, but for projects and anyone wanting to market in the Chinese marketplace is, you know, that's really important is that social media, that mobile media reach.

我再说一遍，微信对我们来说是个非常重要的工具。

Like I said, WeChat has been a very important tool for us.

我们在微信上的账号叫EB5 Magazine。

We're EB5 Magazine on WeChat.

这样我们不仅能发布新一期杂志或会议的具体时间，还能实时跟进业内的重要动态，同时把相关的文章翻译成中文发布出去。

And that allows us to, you know, not only publish updates about, oh, our next magazine is being released on this date or our conferences on this date, but allows us to kind of cover current events in real time if there are important developments in the industry, but also to translate and publish our relevant articles in Chinese.

即使用户不打开纸质杂志，也能通过这个平台随时了解我们的内容。

And, you know, really just lets people become plugged in to our platform, even if they're not opening up a hard copy magazine.

是的，我完全同意考特尼的看法。

Yeah, I certainly would agree with Courtney.

社交媒体非常重要，尤其是在法律行业，移民领域，更细分到商业移民，乃至EB5这个小众领域。

Social media is a big thing, especially in any industry, legal industry, and even immigration industry and a dive even deeper business immigration and even more niche in EB5.

我在各个社交媒体平台和新媒体上都很活跃。

I'm pretty active on social media on the various different platforms, as well as new media.

我发现，重要的不只是把信息传出去——这固然关键。

And one of the things I found is not so much of getting information out there, which is key.

相比印刷媒体，信息在社交媒体上传播快得多。

I mean, you can get information out there a lot quicker than you can with print media.

更重要的是，要和你的联系人、朋友、粉丝建立关系，和他们互动交流。

But it's also to have a relationship with your connections, your friends, your followers, and to engage with them and converse with them.

他们可以对文章、博客或者推文留言提问，直接互动。

I mean, they can reach out and interact on an article, whether it's a blog post or a tweet, and ask a question.

我觉得，最初发布内容的人应该积极参与，回应这些读者的互动。

And I think it's important for the people that initially creating that content to interact and engage with those people around the article.

如果有人对博客里提到的内容、推文链接或领英上的讨论提出问题，这些平台本来就有互动功能，创作者最好能亲自出来解答，帮他们理清思路，引导他们进一步探索。

So if they ask a question about something that was mentioned in a blog post, or linked to a tweet, or a LinkedIn conversation, you know, these platforms have had their ways for listeners and readers to interact, that honestly, the original creators jump in and clarify or, you know, help lead them down the path of discovery.

社交媒体另一个好处，不在于信息传播得更快、覆盖更多平台或移动端，而在于人们真的能主动分享和跟你互动。

So that's something else about social media that I think is great is not so much getting the word out there faster and getting it out there on different platforms as well as mobile, but also recognizing that people can share and interact with you.

所以当他们这么做时，你要及时回应，给予帮助。

So as they do that, acknowledge them and help them out.

没错。

Absolutely.

在当今新媒体时代，一个主要靠印刷的出版物，确实有它的局限性。

And I think, you know, it being a primarily print publication in this age of new media, that's absolutely a limitation of traditional media.

如果你每季度才读一次杂志文章，很难形成真正的对话反馈。

And if you're reading an article in a magazine once every quarter, it's hard to have that conversational feedback.

而且说实话，只要我认识这些作者，我就能直接联系Mona，问她对这个怎么看。

And you know, to the extent that I know the authors, I can reach out to Mona and say, Hey, what did you think about this?

但也有不少作者，我和他们并没有这样的联系。

But there are a lot of authors that I don't necessarily have that relationship with.

没错，没错。

Right, right.

毕竟一年也就只能在几个会议上碰面几次。

You know, so aside from seeing them at conferences a few times a year.

这很重要。

Which is important.

面对面交流，这才是最牢固的连接方式。

Getting face to face, so that's the strongest connection possible.

我可不想在社交媒体上抢了风头，毕竟我们后面会专门做一期，深入聊聊这些平台该怎么用，有哪些最佳实践。

I don't want to hijack it on social media because I know we're going to have a total episode where we're going to really dive deep on some of these platforms and how to use them and some best practices.

不过既然提到了，我就顺便插一句，说说我的看法。

But since it was mentioned, I did want to kind of jump in and throw my 2¢ in.

对。

Right.

接下来我想问的问题是，Courtney，你提到过很多次参加大会。

Well, the next question I was going to ask, Courtney, I know you've mentioned conferences an awful lot.

我是个开发者。

Again, I'm a developer.

我想把我的项目推出来。

I want to get my project out.

我想让投资者知道，但我的预算有限。

I want investors to know, is it I have a limited budget?

我不能大手大脚花钱，这我明白。

I can't spend wildly and I'm okay.

我会做广告。

I'm going to advertise.

我对这一点很有信心。

I'm convinced on that.

参加你们的会议，真值得我花这个时间和钱吗？

Is it really worth my while to come to your conferences?

花这么多钱来参加你们的会议，划算吗？

Should I spend that kind of money coming to your conferences?

这能带来实际效果吗？

Will it achieve anything?

能通过这个活动吸引到投资人吗？

Will I get investors out of it?

你该怎么回答这个问题？

How would you answer that?

确实，我觉得这正是我们很多圈内人最关心的问题。

Yeah, I mean, think that's the big question for a lot of you know, a lot of people in our network.

上个月在拉斯维加斯举办的上一场会议，Mona也参加了，当时到场的有超过800人，其中还有100多位中国代理商。

And our last conference that Mona attended in Vegas, was just a few weeks ago, we had over 100 Yeah, Chinese you were right.

超过800位参会者，没错，还有100多位中国代理商到场。

Over 800, yes, over 800 attendants and over 100 Chinese agents present.

我们实际见到的不止是中国人的身影，我还遇到了来自巴西的人。

We actually had more than Chinese because I met people from Brazil.

我得澄清一下，有一百多位代理，其中大部分是中国的，但正如莫娜提到的，也有来自世界各地的代理。

Just So I should clarify, over a 100 agents, you know, the majority of whom were Chinese, but as Mona mentioned, also agents from all around the world.

至于我觉得会议的价值在哪，我更看重内容方面，而不是商业层面。

And so the value, at least how I see it in terms of the conference is, you know, I'm much more on the content side of things than the business side of things.

所以我自然更重视那些论坛、教育内容之类的，这些当然都很重要。

So obviously, I'm going to value the panels and and the education and all of that, you know, and that's all well and good.

但我认为会议真正的价值在于人脉交流——只有当你们面对面坐下来聊一聊，甚至会后一起喝杯鸡尾酒，那种连接才真正发生。哪怕之前你们已经邮件往来几次，但只有真正见面，才能有实质性的沟通。

But I think the real value of the conferences is the networking and, you know, that face to face meeting where, yeah, you know, we've exchanged a few emails, but until you can really meet someone face to face, have a discussion, you know, even have a cocktail with them after the conference, that's really where the value is.

我其实跟不少最终成为我们活动赞助商或租了展台的人聊过，他们一开始也有同样的顾虑。

And I actually spoke with quite a lot of people who ended up being sponsors, at our event or who ended up having booths at our event and they expressed those same reservations.

他们说，说实话，我一开始挺犹豫的。

Know, they said, honestly, I was kind of hesitant.

我不确定值不值得参加。

I didn't know if it would be worth it.

我不确定这到底值不值得。

I didn't know what the value would be.

等我亲身参加了之后，才发现我们不仅吸引了大量的人，而且参与者背景还特别多元。

And after being there and seeing the not only the amount of people that we could attract, but the variety of people that we attracted.

再说，我们现在办会的方式也很注重留出足够空间，让大家能真正地谈生意。

And also just the way that our conferences are set up now in terms of being very, you know, we try to have a lot of space for people to actually do business.

说实话，如果我要花营销预算，我觉得参会真是个特别有效的地方。

And I think, honestly, think if I were spending my, you know, marketing dollars, the conference is really, well, really a useful place to

没错。

do it.

我可以补充一点，我们有客户按照我们的建议在你们的会上设了展台，我们后来跟踪了他们的实际体验。

If I, I mean, what I can add to this is our real time experience with the clients that we have suggested that they do have a booth at your conference.

我们发现，不管你的宣传材料做得多好，

What we have found is that it doesn't matter how good your marketing material is.

总有些地方会让投资者感到困惑。

There's always something there that an investor will be confused with.

但没法替代面对面的交流。

Doesn't replace an actual face to face meeting.

在大会上，人们真的会主动过来问问题。

And what happens at a conference is that people do come up and ask you questions.

有人在现场能跟你聊、能解释清楚，对方一下子就明白了你的项目。

You have somebody there who is able to talk and speak about it and then suddenly they understand your project.

他们可能喜欢，也可能不喜欢，但至少能做出判断。

They either like it or they hate it but at least they can they make a decision.

所以我特别认可这种价值。

So I see the value of that very much.

我觉得，如果你有个项目想推广，越多人知道、越多人跟你聊越好。对我来说，你们大会最大的优势之一就是我们能用英语交流。

I feel that the more if you want if you have a project and you want to get it out the more you can get it out and speak And to me, one of the biggest values of your conferences is that we can speak in English.

别人能听得懂我们在说什么。

We can be understood.

没错。

True.

这其实是个很大的不同，因为我们是主办方。

That is, you know, that is a big difference in that we are hosting.

我们确实办活动，今年五月八号到九号在上海有个会，三月份还在越南胡志明市办过一场。

We do host, we have a conference coming up May eighth and ninth in Shanghai, and one in March in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam.

我们在美国办的会议，我觉得应该是最成功的。

Our US conferences are, you know, I think probably our most successful ones.

就像莫娜说的，这确实给项目方省了不少事。

That really, like Mona said, makes it easier on project developers.

他们不用大老远跑遍半个地球，再找人当翻译，或者硬着头皮用蹩脚的中文应付。

They don't have to necessarily travel halfway across the world and find someone to speak Chinese for them, or struggle through their own elementary Chinese.

所以这本身也是一个明显的优势。

And so that's that's a definite advantage as well.

没错。

Right.

对。

Right.

另外，我想给那些开发者一些提醒，别只想着把项目推出来就完事。

And and some advice to developers out there, it's not all about just getting your project out.

你得了解竞争对手在做什么，他们说了什么、写了什么。

You need to know what the competition is and you need to know what the competition is saying and what they're writing.

这些会议真的特别有帮助。

And these conferences are great.

其实我正想插一句。

You know, I was actually going to jump on.

与其说是竞争，不如说是竞合，因为他们真正想吸引的是投资人，虽然表面上是推项目，但核心还是拉投资。

In fact, it's not even so much, you know, competition, it's coopetition because, know, really, they're trying to bring investors in into the well, they primarily want their projects, but really to bring investors in.

我觉得，一个展台了解另一个展台，一个项目认识另一个项目，

And I think that one booth getting to know another booth, one project getting to know another project,

能带来巨大的改变。

makes a huge difference.

确实能带来巨大改变。

It does make a huge difference.

另外，了解这个项目具体做什么、他们的理念是什么以及他们如何运作，真的很有帮助，因为这也能帮你理清自己的宣传思路。

Plus, it's really good to know what this project does and what they stand for and how they go about doing it because it will also help you clarify your message.

即使你目前没有实际可投资的项目，我个人认为，只要你打算走这条路，参加EB5投资者大会也是个不错的选择。哪怕你不设展位，也可以借此在行业内拓展人脉，了解大家都在做什么，深入思考一下：我接下来要做的事情，真的能让这个行业变得更好吗？

Even if you don't have, I personally believe, even if you don't have like an active investable project, but you're looking at going down this path, I think attending the EB5 Investors Conference is a good idea, even if you don't have a booth just so you can cross network across the industry, understand what people are doing, and really understand it and what I am about to do, is it going to make the industry better?

我能不能

Am I going to differentiate

脱颖而出？

myself?

还是说

Or am I

我会做一个那种千篇一律的项目？

going to be a me too type project?

说实话，我觉得项目越多样化，对大家都越好。因为即使对于那些已经很成熟的项目来说，你也不会伤害到他们，反而能凸显出你和他们的不同之处。

And honestly, I think the more diverse projects out there, it really benefits everybody, because even the ones that are well established, you're not hurting them, you're really, you know, highlighting how much they are different from you.

所以，也许某个本来还在犹豫的投资者，会意识到那个项目不适合他，但你的项目正合他意。

So maybe an investor that was kind of on the fence realizes that the project was for them, or maybe it wasn't for them, and it is for you.

但我觉得这能帮助投资者更清楚地意识到，他们找到了对的项目。

But I think it really helps clarify for the investors that they have found the right project.

这也是我特别喜欢这些会议的原因之一。

And that's one thing I really love about these conferences.

说到个人感受，就像我之前说的，我通常都在幕后工作，不属于业务发展部门，尽管我一直在聊我们的杂志和会议。

Yeah, and kind of on a personal note, I'm like I said, I'm usually behind the scenes and I'm not in our business development department, despite how much I've been, you know, talking about our magazine and conferences.

但对我来说，能见到这些一直合作的人，建立真正的联系，也是最令人兴奋的部分。

But it's the most exciting time for me as well in getting to to meet all these people that I've worked with Oh, and build relationships.

比如我和莫娜以前只通过邮件联系，每年见一面，现在却坐在纽约一起做播客。

I mean, now Mona and I previously had only communicated via email and seen each other once a year and now we're sitting together in New York City doing a podcast.

所以这不仅对开发商和投资者有帮助，对我们杂志团队来说也同样重要。

And so it really, you know, not only for developers and investors but for us as well in the magazine.

能借助这些会议来建立并深化彼此的关系，真的让人特别振奋。

I mean it's so exciting to be able to use the conferences as a an opportunity to build our relationships and to strengthen our relationships.

是的。

Yeah.

在业务拓展方面，成本比出国要低不少。

And on the business development side, the cost aspect, it is relatively cheaper than going overseas.

我知道出国感觉能真正见到人，但我们的经验是，只要会议办得够成功，传播出去的媒体内容自然会触达对的人，而且花的钱少得多。

I know overseas you feel like you are actually going to meet the people, but our experience has been that, if these conferences are, successful enough, the media that gets out there, it it gets to the right people, and you're spending a lot less money.

就像我之前说的，上一次会议有代理机构参与，这确实非常成功，以后也会继续这么做。说不定以后就不用总飞去中国见代理和投资人了。

And I think, know, as I mentioned, our agent, the presence of agents at our last conference, and that's definitely something that was wildly successful, and that will be continued as well, and that, you know, hopefully it may no longer be necessary to fly to China all the time to meet agents and to meet investors.

这对我们来说是非常令人兴奋的进展。

And so that's something that's been very exciting for us to develop.

确实如此。

Certainly.

Mona，你对Courtney还有什么最后的问题吗？

Mona, do you have any last questions for Courtney?

有的。

Yeah.

我觉得这个播客的核心是营销问题——这种方式只是众多营销手段中的一种，但却是非常重要的一种。

I think, you know, point that of this podcast is the marketing issue, that this is just one way to market, but it's an important way to market.

我们今天来不是为了做推广的。

And we're not here just to promote.

我们不是来宣传《EB5杂志》的。

We're not here to promote EB5 Magazine.

虽然我们非常认可Courtney和《EB5杂志》，认为他们是业内顶尖的，但我们也想分享他们的观点和看法。

And as much as we really hold Courtney and EB5 Magazine up there as one of the best, we think that their views and then and their opinions do are something that we would like to share.

不过我还有一个最后的问题想问Courtney。

I have one last question for Courtney though.

Courtney，正如我之前说的，我们对《EB5杂志》、尤其是你本人，评价非常高。

Courtney, as I have said, we hold EB5 Magazine and especially yourself in very high regard.

去年那一年，各种立法动向频发，用词不太恰当，但确实挺动荡、挺特别的，对吧？

Last year was a very, how can I say, turbulent, unusual year with all of the legislation activity?

《EB5杂志》当时有明确的立场吗？

Did EB5 Magazine have, an opinion?

因为当时大家分成了两三个不同的阵营，看法完全不一样。

Because there were two to three camps diverging opinions.

他们站到了哪一边？

Did they side with one camp over the other?

哎呀，这问题真不好答。

Oh, another tricky question.

我不能替杂志表态，但可以这么说，我们一直和立法者、利益相关方，还有行业内的各种联盟和组织紧密合作，不仅争取延长这个项目，更希望推动它的改革和加强。

So I don't want to comment on behalf of the magazine in that regard other than to say that we have worked and continue to work very closely with legislators and with stakeholders and, you know, various coalitions and organizations within the industry to fight for not only the extension of the program, but hopefully the reform and the strengthening of the program.

哦，谢谢。

Oh, thank you.

答得真够圆滑，政治上也特别稳妥。

Thank you very much very diplomatic, politically correct answer.

Courtney，谢谢你把握得这么到位。

Courtney, thank you so much for properly walking that line.

这问题确实很难，但你处理得非常专业，完全符合我对你的期待。

It's a very hard question, but you walked it with complete journalistic integrity, you know, nothing short of what I would expect from you.

非常感谢你今天愿意来分享这些观点。

So thank you so much for sharing that with us and coming on today's show.